August 7, 2025 • 23 mins
Get your step by step guide to private practice. Because you are too important to lose to not knowing the rules, going broke, burning out, and giving up. #counselorsdontquit.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 2 (00:10):
okay.
So, jennifer, have you everseen like comedians and they'll
talk about like I bet mytherapist gets on the phone with
her other therapist buddies andthey just crack up over the
stuff that I go through in mytherapy session or something
like that.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Oh, absolutely, and I've also fallen victim to that
belief as well that you know ifI'm struggling with some crazy
mental health thing that mytherapist is like.
Oh my God, I got to telleverybody.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yeah, and we even talked about in the episode we
did about do therapists needtheir own therapists?
Right, when we have stuff we goto another therapist.
We don't go to our husbands, wedon't go to other therapists.
I mean, I'm sorry, like ourfriend therapist that's what I
mean by that.
But we absolutely do like go toour own personal therapist.
(01:06):
But and there's a giant butembedded in all of this we don't
share client confidentialinformation, and it goes by a
lot of different names sensitiveinformation, phi, protected
health information and, you know, sometimes, clients.
I think, first of all, well, Ithink there are two
(01:27):
misconceptions.
The first one is the first one.
Like I just said, you know, ohmy gosh, I'm going to get on the
phone and talk about all thestuff I heard today.
We don't do that.
But I think the secondmisconception is they walk in as
a new client and they thinkthat we already have their
information, especially ifthey've been referred by their
(01:48):
physician or another therapist.
Right, I mean because so manytimes I just did this.
The other day I went to myphysician and I was referred to
another specialist and you knowthey already had the information
because I sign a form thateverybody in this network has
access to my health records.
(02:09):
But with mental health it's alittle bit different and there
are different laws and differentlayers, right?
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Oh, absolutely.
And so I I know a lot oftherapists out there.
You know as they're goingthrough.
You know, prior to gettingfully licensed they're
encouraged to work for, likecommunity mental health, and you
know an intensive outpatientprogram, often referred to as an
IOP, and I I've worked for anIOP and a lot of times, by the
(02:39):
time I get to the client fortherapy, they've seen a
psychiatrist, they've seen acase manager, they've seen a
psychiatrist, they've seen acase manager and they've seen a
nurse.
And I'm like so you know whatbrings you here for therapy.
You know in a very generic sense, and a lot of times they're
like oh, I got to tell you againbecause there's this conception
(03:00):
that everybody knows and wereally don't, and a lot of that
you know.
We have our different layers ofyou know HIPAA compliance and
our state compliance, and wealso have a code of ethics.
Whether we're a social workeror a licensed professional
counselor or a licensed marriageand family therapist, we all
have to abide by these certainrules and regulations that
(03:22):
stipulate what I can and cannotshare.
By these certain rules andregulations that stipulate what
I can and cannot share, even ifyou're another therapist, I
can't even ask you was thisperson a client of yours, and
you can't tell me that personwas a client of yours unless
there are certain documents inplace.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah, and that's the ROI, the release of information.
And when you go to your brandnew physician, you're filling
out so many things you may noteven realize that you're filling
this out, Especially if you'regoing into, let's say, a system
like Jennifer you're describingright, when there's so many
specialists.
They're basically saying, hey,we're going to share this with
(04:03):
all of these people.
But you do notice it when itasks you to, for instance, fill
out the name of your partner,you know and, hey, can we share,
you know records with thisperson in case you know of an
emergency right, and sometimesthat's what it looks like is
sort of an emergency contactform, and so then you're aware,
(04:24):
oh, yes, I'm giving permissionfor you to share information
with my husband, my partner, mywife, whatever, and so in that
sense, yeah, we can shareinformation, but there are some
really important differences,and Jennifer you were talking
about, like in law enforcement,you know, because that can be
(04:48):
confusing, especially when wecan Google mugshots and court
records, right, I mean, it'sdifferent.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Very different.
You know, in a previous life Iworked in law enforcement and
when you commit a crime, even ifyou're just a suspect you are.
Now your information has beenentered in this database that
all of these other agencies areprivy to.
Now they can't go and telltheir next door neighbor or
their sister's, friend's cousinhey, you know, you know, bobby
(05:18):
Sue, she was down at the poolhall and she was drunk.
I mean, they're not, they'renot doing that, but your
information is out there.
If you get arrested, that's notan admission of guilt and
that's not a conviction, butyour mugshot is still on Lubbock
County mugshots for now, untilever, and you have to go through
a lot of stuff to get itexpunged.
(05:38):
And I think a lot of peopledon't realize that all of that
doesn't translate over into thevarious professions.
They just think that, oh,everybody's going to know about
this If I talk about this traumaI had at six.
Who else is going to know aboutthe trauma I had at six?
And is it safe with this person?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah, I wonder if even folks listening to this
right now, if they've been onthe fence about going to see a
therapist, and they're lookingat the title of this and they're
like, oh, I got to know thisbecause you've been holding back
from therapy, thinking that thetherapist is going to share
when they shouldn't, or you'rethat person who thinks that they
(06:21):
know everything when you sitdown across from them at the, so
you know.
Going back to the legal system,you know, and when we get a
(06:42):
subpoena, it's like, okay, thelegal systems involved, kind of
all bets are off.
We have to comply with thesubpoena.
Are we going to shareinformation?
Well, we're still going toadvocate for you.
We're still going to be, like Ireally don't want to share.
Is there any other way we canget around this?
Okay, is there any way that Idon't have to share this?
(07:02):
Maybe I can just give you asummary.
Right, we're going to continueto fight to protect your
information, because that's ourjob.
We.
You know you own thatinformation.
Anything that comes out of yourmouth belongs to you, and all
we are are the custodians.
Right?
It's like if I loaned you mycar, right?
(07:25):
I'm loaning you my car and notgiving it to you, right?
So don't drive it all over theplace and share it with your
friends.
When your information is givento us, we are mandated by all
the things Jennifer was talkingabout to protect that, and so
you know, most states and HIPAAhave conditions under which we
(07:49):
must reveal, and that's you know, just a few.
You know if you're a danger toyourself, you're a danger to
someone else.
You release and give usinformation about current
ongoing child abuse, elder abuseand, of course, the subpoena.
So one of the things that'sreally important is that you
understand that at the firstmeeting, because you know, back
(08:11):
in the day, we'd hand you astack of paper and say, okay,
read all this and sign it andthen we can get going with your
session.
And you're like, oh my gosh, Iwant to get through this because
I want to start talking.
Nowadays.
We're most likely going to sendyou a link, but it's important
that your therapist actuallyexplain to you what you're
signing.
But, most importantly, aboutthose exceptions to
(08:33):
confidentiality, right?
I mean, jennifer, you talkedabout that before.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Oh, absolutely, and it goes to say that it is a lot
of paperwork, and if you aregoing in for your first session,
whether it's a virtual sessionor you're face to face with your
new therapist they should betaking the time to go through
each of those documents,especially the portion that
covers what information isshared, not shared, and in the
(09:02):
event it could be shared, andreally making sure you
understand that.
And so if you've ever been totherapy and your therapist
didn't do that, I empower youthe next time to ask those
questions, because it is soimportant that you know and
understand what that process is.
It's your therapy, it's aboutyou, you are the focus, and if
(09:23):
you don't know what's going onor you don't have any idea of
you know the process and themethods I mean, we do, obviously
, it's our profession Then youhave the right to ask those
questions and get thatinformation.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Absolutely.
You made me think of you know.
So, okay, let's say, I've gotthe release, I'm the therapist,
right, I've got the release ofinformation, you signed it,
you're my, you're my client.
And so I'm looking at thisthing and I think, okay, I've
got a golden ticket, now I'mjust going to share, share,
(09:57):
share, share.
No wrong, that's not how thisworks either.
On a piece of information, theclient gets to specify what is
shared and it must be specifiedwith whom it can be shared.
So if you come to that firstsession and you're saying, you
(10:18):
know, I really would like you totalk to my physician, they have
my records.
It's important you understandwhat medical conditions I'm
going through I'll say, hey,that's great, fill this out, put
your physician's name, puttheir contact information.
We'll both sign it.
We'll put it down when, howlong this lasts, how long I have
this permission.
(10:40):
But wait, there's more.
I don't just get on the phonewith your physician and start
spilling my guts about oursessions.
I still am the custodian and so, even if you didn't put down,
hey, I don't want you to talkabout my childhood with my
physician.
If the physician is sharinginformation, I'm not going to
(11:02):
talk about things that areirrelevant to our conversation.
Right, it's, it's so.
It's not a blank check, it'snot just.
You know, I don't even knowwhat to say.
Blank check is the best word,right?
I'm not just going to spill myguts and talk about everything.
In fact, if I'm a really,really prudent, good therapist,
(11:24):
I'm going to wait to hear okay,physician, do you have any
questions for me?
And the physician, if they're agood physician, will say hey,
do you have any questions for me?
And the physician, if they're agood physician, will say hey,
do you have any questions for me?
Because that's what we're doing.
We're trying to piece togethera picture of you and something
that's useful and kind of.
I want to loop back around.
(11:45):
So let's say, let's say we getthe subpoena, or we get a
release of information, orsomething comes to us and we're
like okay, I feel like I reallyneed to contact Jennifer, You're
my client.
I really need to contact yourprevious therapist to talk about
some information, are you okaywith that?
(12:05):
And then you say, yeah, I'mokay, we fill out the paperwork.
I'm going to talk with youfirst, like, here's what I want
to talk about.
Is that okay with you?
And I'm not again, just notgoing to take this hall, pass
this blank check and be like allright, here we go, we're going
to break it down, grab yourcoffee, get a glass.
We're going to just let's hashthis out.
(12:27):
No, it's not that right.
It is a quick conversation inmost cases and it's very much to
the point and you get to tellme what you want discussed.
And I know you may think, okay,but I'm not the expert.
(12:47):
Yes, you are.
You are the expert.
It's your information and if Ithink I need clarity, if I come
back from that conversation, I'mlike, ah, I still need to talk
to them again.
It would be so helpful if Icould talk about this thing that
happened to you when you were12.
If you say no, then I'm likeall right, good to go.
If you say yes, then I will.
(13:11):
We'll meet again.
We'll continue to process that.
You have so much power here,clients.
It's really important that youknow that, especially if you, if
you're not a client and you'rehesitant to go to therapy.
It's really important that youknow this right.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Very much so.
I like that you talked aboutit's not free reign.
Going back to my previousoccupation in law enforcement, I
learned very early on that weare not consumers, we are
products.
Is my responsibility to nottreat my client like a product,
(13:53):
to treat my client as a humanwith thoughts and feelings and
experiences and and part of thatis not, you know, even not into
intentionally sharing stuffthat could be misused to the
detriment of my client to thedetriment of my client.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Which brings me to social media.
Right, I mean holy moly socialmedia, and Jennifer and I are on
the socials a lot because we'realways looking for threads with
mental health providers.
We want to answer questions, wewant to do exactly what we do
here, but we love theinteraction, we love helping out
.
But here's what we see,especially in mental health
referral groups, which tend tobe closed.
(14:36):
You know you've got to answerquestions.
There are really good admins,but if you have a post counselor
, I'm talking to you.
That starts with.
I have a client who dot, dot,dot, Stop, Just stop.
Even if you are being a reallygood therapist and you want to
get additional help for yourclient, or perhaps you're
(14:58):
retiring or moving away andyou're trying to get your client
some additional help so thatthey transition to a new
therapist, stop before you startrevealing information in that
thread.
You don't know if this is asmall town and the information
(15:18):
that you're revealing especially.
I mean I read one last week andit was like this person is this
age, they are this gender andoh, by the way, they're a
veteran and oh, by the way, theysuffer with this illness and
utilize these services.
I mean with every single wordthis therapist was putting in
the thread.
Someone who was in that smalltown could probably know who
(15:41):
that was.
And this is the thing.
Now I'm talking to you, generalpublic.
Your protected healthinformation isn't just your name
, your phone number, youraddress, blah, blah, blah.
Your protected healthinformation is any identifying
information, right.
So you know, if I thought about, like, when Dr Phil saw Britney
(16:04):
Spears, well, first of all, heactually said he saw Britney
Spears, but he wasn't licensedat the time, but anyway, it was
still problematic.
Yeah, so even if he had notsaid Britney Spears name,
instead he had said I saw ablonde pop star in her mid 30s
who used to be on Mickey'sClubhouse, Disney Channel, and
(16:29):
she wore a yellow boaconstrictor at one of her
concerts.
I mean, all of a sudden, we'd beall going okay, we totally know
who this is.
That's what I'm talking aboutyou therapists talking to you
revealing protected healthinformation in these threads.
I mean it's like's likeJennifer said, we are the
(16:50):
product.
There are bots, there arepeople scouring this information
in order to put more stuff inyour feed, get more things
targeted to whatever.
I mean it's just not a secureplace and it's definitely not
HIPAA compliant or ROI compliantyes, that's the word I'm
(17:12):
looking for.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
So yeah, I got.
I heard an example in gradschool that was said that
basically if your client couldread it and thought, think it
was about them, then that wastoo much information.
Even if, even if it wasn't like, even if they put like I'm
looking for a therapist for afemale with anxiety and
(17:36):
depression, um, suffering theloss of a parent, takes blue
class, blue shield insuranceWell, that could be a lot of
people.
But if I read that and I'm theclient and I thought that that
was about me, that that isenough for a counselor to have
blurred those ethical boundariesRight.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
And, don't forget, most of you have your name on.
I mean, right, it's.
It's just very, very, verydicey and I love these groups,
don't get me wrong.
I love therapists, helpingtherapists, and we even host a
thread in the Texas counselorscreating badass businesses group
called ISO in search of butit's easy to put in search of a
(18:24):
therapist in the Frisco area whotakes Blue Cross, blue Shield
and specializes in something,something.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yeah, you don't even have to say I need a therapist.
It specializes in anxiety anddepression and works with teens.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Yep, and that's how we want you to do it.
And if you do need an ROI whichyou all do I shouldn't have
said, if everybody listening tothis who's a therapist seeing
clients you need an ROI Inaddition to the paperwork
explaining the exceptions toconfidentiality.
And how do you build an ROI?
(19:01):
Well, we're going to bring inour friend ChatGPT, and I'm
going to put on my glasses so Ican see my other monitor and I'm
going to put on my glasses so Ican see my other monitor so you
can ask chat GPT to help youconstruct a release of
information.
Please don't go to an attorney,please don't spend a lot of
money on this.
I mean, you can go to groupslike ours.
(19:22):
We give these things away andif you really are anxious about
it, of course you can have anattorney check it.
And if you really are anxiousabout it, of course you can have
an attorney check it.
But if you give chat GPT aprompt, something like help me
write a HIPAA-compliant releaseof information form for a
counseling private practice, in,insert the name of your state,
include fields for client name,provider name, recipient purpose
(19:45):
, type of info released, timelimits and signature, and then,
of course, you can customize it.
Add your practice name, yourcontact info, include what types
of information can be released.
Remember what we said earlierclient has the power, so make
sure you give them those options, even if it's just a blank,
(20:08):
like a line helping youunderstand what you can and
cannot release.
And then include expirationdates, which generally, if
there's no expiration, it's 12months from the date that it's
signed that it will expire andthe language that the client for
revocation purposes and thelanguage that the client for
(20:29):
revocation purposes and thespoiler alert the client can
revoke this at any time.
You just want to make sure youhave that in your ROI so that
the client knows that they havethat power right.
So go to your favorite GPT Iguess not GPT, your favorite AI?
I'm a chat GPT.
I guess not GPT your favoriteAI.
(20:49):
I'm a chat GPT fan and you canbuild your own ROI with your
brand and your information andyou're good to go.
I mean, if you follow the stuffwe're talking about in this
episode, I mean you're going tobe good.
But I get it.
You want to contact an attorney?
Have them double check with you, please.
Please do so as long as youfeel good, as long as you're
(21:11):
feeling comfortable and mainlyfor the potential clients
listening to this.
If this is what's been holdingyou back from going to therapy,
I want you to feel empowered.
Now you've got some questionsyou can ask this brand new
therapist, this potentialtherapist that you're also going
to interview.
Right, they're not justinterviewing you, you're
(21:32):
interviewing them, and nowyou've got some information
about how we handle protectedhealth information.
So go to therapy, all right,and we will end.
okay.
So, jennifer, have you everseen like comedians and they'll
talk about like I bet mytherapist gets on the phone with
her other therapist buddies andthey just crack up over the
stuff that I go through in mytherapy session or something
like that.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Oh, absolutely, and I've also fallen victim to that
belief as well that you know ifI'm struggling with some crazy
mental health thing that mytherapist is like.
Oh my God, I got to telleverybody.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yeah, and we even talked about in the episode we
did about do therapists needtheir own therapists?
Right, when we have stuff we goto another therapist.
We don't go to our husbands, wedon't go to other therapists.
I mean, I'm sorry, like ourfriend therapist that's what I
mean by that.
But we absolutely do like go toour own personal therapist.
(01:06):
But and there's a giant butembedded in all of this we don't
share client confidentialinformation, and it goes by a
lot of different names sensitiveinformation, phi, protected
health information and, you know, sometimes, clients.
I think, first of all, well, Ithink there are two
(01:27):
misconceptions.
The first one is the first one.
Like I just said, you know, ohmy gosh, I'm going to get on the
phone and talk about all thestuff I heard today.
We don't do that.
But I think the secondmisconception is they walk in as
a new client and they thinkthat we already have their
information, especially ifthey've been referred by their
(01:48):
physician or another therapist.
Right, I mean because so manytimes I just did this.
The other day I went to myphysician and I was referred to
another specialist and you knowthey already had the information
because I sign a form thateverybody in this network has
access to my health records.
(02:09):
But with mental health it's alittle bit different and there
are different laws and differentlayers, right?
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Oh, absolutely.
And so I I know a lot oftherapists out there.
You know as they're goingthrough.
You know, prior to gettingfully licensed they're
encouraged to work for, likecommunity mental health, and you
know an intensive outpatientprogram, often referred to as an
IOP, and I I've worked for anIOP and a lot of times, by the
(02:39):
time I get to the client fortherapy, they've seen a
psychiatrist, they've seen acase manager, they've seen a
psychiatrist, they've seen acase manager and they've seen a
nurse.
And I'm like so you know whatbrings you here for therapy.
You know in a very generic sense, and a lot of times they're
like oh, I got to tell you againbecause there's this conception
(03:00):
that everybody knows and wereally don't, and a lot of that
you know.
We have our different layers ofyou know HIPAA compliance and
our state compliance, and wealso have a code of ethics.
Whether we're a social workeror a licensed professional
counselor or a licensed marriageand family therapist, we all
have to abide by these certainrules and regulations that
(03:22):
stipulate what I can and cannotshare.
By these certain rules andregulations that stipulate what
I can and cannot share, even ifyou're another therapist, I
can't even ask you was thisperson a client of yours, and
you can't tell me that personwas a client of yours unless
there are certain documents inplace.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah, and that's the ROI, the release of information.
And when you go to your brandnew physician, you're filling
out so many things you may noteven realize that you're filling
this out, Especially if you'regoing into, let's say, a system
like Jennifer you're describingright, when there's so many
specialists.
They're basically saying, hey,we're going to share this with
(04:03):
all of these people.
But you do notice it when itasks you to, for instance, fill
out the name of your partner,you know and, hey, can we share,
you know records with thisperson in case you know of an
emergency right, and sometimesthat's what it looks like is
sort of an emergency contactform, and so then you're aware,
(04:24):
oh, yes, I'm giving permissionfor you to share information
with my husband, my partner, mywife, whatever, and so in that
sense, yeah, we can shareinformation, but there are some
really important differences,and Jennifer you were talking
about, like in law enforcement,you know, because that can be
(04:48):
confusing, especially when wecan Google mugshots and court
records, right, I mean, it'sdifferent.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Very different.
You know, in a previous life Iworked in law enforcement and
when you commit a crime, even ifyou're just a suspect you are.
Now your information has beenentered in this database that
all of these other agencies areprivy to.
Now they can't go and telltheir next door neighbor or
their sister's, friend's cousinhey, you know, you know, bobby
(05:18):
Sue, she was down at the poolhall and she was drunk.
I mean, they're not, they'renot doing that, but your
information is out there.
If you get arrested, that's notan admission of guilt and
that's not a conviction, butyour mugshot is still on Lubbock
County mugshots for now, untilever, and you have to go through
a lot of stuff to get itexpunged.
(05:38):
And I think a lot of peopledon't realize that all of that
doesn't translate over into thevarious professions.
They just think that, oh,everybody's going to know about
this If I talk about this traumaI had at six.
Who else is going to know aboutthe trauma I had at six?
And is it safe with this person?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah, I wonder if even folks listening to this
right now, if they've been onthe fence about going to see a
therapist, and they're lookingat the title of this and they're
like, oh, I got to know thisbecause you've been holding back
from therapy, thinking that thetherapist is going to share
when they shouldn't, or you'rethat person who thinks that they
(06:21):
know everything when you sitdown across from them at the, so
you know.
Going back to the legal system,you know, and when we get a
(06:42):
subpoena, it's like, okay, thelegal systems involved, kind of
all bets are off.
We have to comply with thesubpoena.
Are we going to shareinformation?
Well, we're still going toadvocate for you.
We're still going to be, like Ireally don't want to share.
Is there any other way we canget around this?
Okay, is there any way that Idon't have to share this?
(07:02):
Maybe I can just give you asummary.
Right, we're going to continueto fight to protect your
information, because that's ourjob.
We.
You know you own thatinformation.
Anything that comes out of yourmouth belongs to you, and all
we are are the custodians.
Right?
It's like if I loaned you mycar, right?
(07:25):
I'm loaning you my car and notgiving it to you, right?
So don't drive it all over theplace and share it with your
friends.
When your information is givento us, we are mandated by all
the things Jennifer was talkingabout to protect that, and so
you know, most states and HIPAAhave conditions under which we
(07:49):
must reveal, and that's you know, just a few.
You know if you're a danger toyourself, you're a danger to
someone else.
You release and give usinformation about current
ongoing child abuse, elder abuseand, of course, the subpoena.
So one of the things that'sreally important is that you
understand that at the firstmeeting, because you know, back
(08:11):
in the day, we'd hand you astack of paper and say, okay,
read all this and sign it andthen we can get going with your
session.
And you're like, oh my gosh, Iwant to get through this because
I want to start talking.
Nowadays.
We're most likely going to sendyou a link, but it's important
that your therapist actuallyexplain to you what you're
signing.
But, most importantly, aboutthose exceptions to
(08:33):
confidentiality, right?
I mean, jennifer, you talkedabout that before.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Oh, absolutely, and it goes to say that it is a lot
of paperwork, and if you aregoing in for your first session,
whether it's a virtual sessionor you're face to face with your
new therapist they should betaking the time to go through
each of those documents,especially the portion that
covers what information isshared, not shared, and in the
(09:02):
event it could be shared, andreally making sure you
understand that.
And so if you've ever been totherapy and your therapist
didn't do that, I empower youthe next time to ask those
questions, because it is soimportant that you know and
understand what that process is.
It's your therapy, it's aboutyou, you are the focus, and if
(09:23):
you don't know what's going onor you don't have any idea of
you know the process and themethods I mean, we do, obviously
, it's our profession Then youhave the right to ask those
questions and get thatinformation.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Absolutely.
You made me think of you know.
So, okay, let's say, I've gotthe release, I'm the therapist,
right, I've got the release ofinformation, you signed it,
you're my, you're my client.
And so I'm looking at thisthing and I think, okay, I've
got a golden ticket, now I'mjust going to share, share,
(09:57):
share, share.
No wrong, that's not how thisworks either.
On a piece of information, theclient gets to specify what is
shared and it must be specifiedwith whom it can be shared.
So if you come to that firstsession and you're saying, you
(10:18):
know, I really would like you totalk to my physician, they have
my records.
It's important you understandwhat medical conditions I'm
going through I'll say, hey,that's great, fill this out, put
your physician's name, puttheir contact information.
We'll both sign it.
We'll put it down when, howlong this lasts, how long I have
this permission.
(10:40):
But wait, there's more.
I don't just get on the phonewith your physician and start
spilling my guts about oursessions.
I still am the custodian and so, even if you didn't put down,
hey, I don't want you to talkabout my childhood with my
physician.
If the physician is sharinginformation, I'm not going to
(11:02):
talk about things that areirrelevant to our conversation.
Right, it's, it's so.
It's not a blank check, it'snot just.
You know, I don't even knowwhat to say.
Blank check is the best word,right?
I'm not just going to spill myguts and talk about everything.
In fact, if I'm a really,really prudent, good therapist,
(11:24):
I'm going to wait to hear okay,physician, do you have any
questions for me?
And the physician, if they're agood physician, will say hey,
do you have any questions for me?
And the physician, if they're agood physician, will say hey,
do you have any questions for me?
Because that's what we're doing.
We're trying to piece togethera picture of you and something
that's useful and kind of.
I want to loop back around.
(11:45):
So let's say, let's say we getthe subpoena, or we get a
release of information, orsomething comes to us and we're
like okay, I feel like I reallyneed to contact Jennifer, You're
my client.
I really need to contact yourprevious therapist to talk about
some information, are you okaywith that?
(12:05):
And then you say, yeah, I'mokay, we fill out the paperwork.
I'm going to talk with youfirst, like, here's what I want
to talk about.
Is that okay with you?
And I'm not again, just notgoing to take this hall, pass
this blank check and be like allright, here we go, we're going
to break it down, grab yourcoffee, get a glass.
We're going to just let's hashthis out.
(12:27):
No, it's not that right.
It is a quick conversation inmost cases and it's very much to
the point and you get to tellme what you want discussed.
And I know you may think, okay,but I'm not the expert.
(12:47):
Yes, you are.
You are the expert.
It's your information and if Ithink I need clarity, if I come
back from that conversation, I'mlike, ah, I still need to talk
to them again.
It would be so helpful if Icould talk about this thing that
happened to you when you were12.
If you say no, then I'm likeall right, good to go.
If you say yes, then I will.
(13:11):
We'll meet again.
We'll continue to process that.
You have so much power here,clients.
It's really important that youknow that, especially if you, if
you're not a client and you'rehesitant to go to therapy.
It's really important that youknow this right.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Very much so.
I like that you talked aboutit's not free reign.
Going back to my previousoccupation in law enforcement, I
learned very early on that weare not consumers, we are
products.
Is my responsibility to nottreat my client like a product,
(13:53):
to treat my client as a humanwith thoughts and feelings and
experiences and and part of thatis not, you know, even not into
intentionally sharing stuffthat could be misused to the
detriment of my client to thedetriment of my client.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Which brings me to social media.
Right, I mean holy moly socialmedia, and Jennifer and I are on
the socials a lot because we'realways looking for threads with
mental health providers.
We want to answer questions, wewant to do exactly what we do
here, but we love theinteraction, we love helping out
.
But here's what we see,especially in mental health
referral groups, which tend tobe closed.
(14:36):
You know you've got to answerquestions.
There are really good admins,but if you have a post counselor
, I'm talking to you.
That starts with.
I have a client who dot, dot,dot, Stop, Just stop.
Even if you are being a reallygood therapist and you want to
get additional help for yourclient, or perhaps you're
(14:58):
retiring or moving away andyou're trying to get your client
some additional help so thatthey transition to a new
therapist, stop before you startrevealing information in that
thread.
You don't know if this is asmall town and the information
(15:18):
that you're revealing especially.
I mean I read one last week andit was like this person is this
age, they are this gender andoh, by the way, they're a
veteran and oh, by the way, theysuffer with this illness and
utilize these services.
I mean with every single wordthis therapist was putting in
the thread.
Someone who was in that smalltown could probably know who
(15:41):
that was.
And this is the thing.
Now I'm talking to you, generalpublic.
Your protected healthinformation isn't just your name
, your phone number, youraddress, blah, blah, blah.
Your protected healthinformation is any identifying
information, right.
So you know, if I thought about, like, when Dr Phil saw Britney
(16:04):
Spears, well, first of all, heactually said he saw Britney
Spears, but he wasn't licensedat the time, but anyway, it was
still problematic.
Yeah, so even if he had notsaid Britney Spears name,
instead he had said I saw ablonde pop star in her mid 30s
who used to be on Mickey'sClubhouse, Disney Channel, and
(16:29):
she wore a yellow boaconstrictor at one of her
concerts.
I mean, all of a sudden, we'd beall going okay, we totally know
who this is.
That's what I'm talking aboutyou therapists talking to you
revealing protected healthinformation in these threads.
I mean it's like's likeJennifer said, we are the
(16:50):
product.
There are bots, there arepeople scouring this information
in order to put more stuff inyour feed, get more things
targeted to whatever.
I mean it's just not a secureplace and it's definitely not
HIPAA compliant or ROI compliantyes, that's the word I'm
(17:12):
looking for.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
So yeah, I got.
I heard an example in gradschool that was said that
basically if your client couldread it and thought, think it
was about them, then that wastoo much information.
Even if, even if it wasn't like, even if they put like I'm
looking for a therapist for afemale with anxiety and
(17:36):
depression, um, suffering theloss of a parent, takes blue
class, blue shield insuranceWell, that could be a lot of
people.
But if I read that and I'm theclient and I thought that that
was about me, that that isenough for a counselor to have
blurred those ethical boundariesRight.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
And, don't forget, most of you have your name on.
I mean, right, it's.
It's just very, very, verydicey and I love these groups,
don't get me wrong.
I love therapists, helpingtherapists, and we even host a
thread in the Texas counselorscreating badass businesses group
called ISO in search of butit's easy to put in search of a
(18:24):
therapist in the Frisco area whotakes Blue Cross, blue Shield
and specializes in something,something.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yeah, you don't even have to say I need a therapist.
It specializes in anxiety anddepression and works with teens.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Yep, and that's how we want you to do it.
And if you do need an ROI whichyou all do I shouldn't have
said, if everybody listening tothis who's a therapist seeing
clients you need an ROI Inaddition to the paperwork
explaining the exceptions toconfidentiality.
And how do you build an ROI?
(19:01):
Well, we're going to bring inour friend ChatGPT, and I'm
going to put on my glasses so Ican see my other monitor and I'm
going to put on my glasses so Ican see my other monitor so you
can ask chat GPT to help youconstruct a release of
information.
Please don't go to an attorney,please don't spend a lot of
money on this.
I mean, you can go to groupslike ours.
(19:22):
We give these things away andif you really are anxious about
it, of course you can have anattorney check it.
And if you really are anxiousabout it, of course you can have
an attorney check it.
But if you give chat GPT aprompt, something like help me
write a HIPAA-compliant releaseof information form for a
counseling private practice, in,insert the name of your state,
include fields for client name,provider name, recipient purpose
(19:45):
, type of info released, timelimits and signature, and then,
of course, you can customize it.
Add your practice name, yourcontact info, include what types
of information can be released.
Remember what we said earlierclient has the power, so make
sure you give them those options, even if it's just a blank,
(20:08):
like a line helping youunderstand what you can and
cannot release.
And then include expirationdates, which generally, if
there's no expiration, it's 12months from the date that it's
signed that it will expire andthe language that the client for
revocation purposes and thelanguage that the client for
(20:29):
revocation purposes and thespoiler alert the client can
revoke this at any time.
You just want to make sure youhave that in your ROI so that
the client knows that they havethat power right.
So go to your favorite GPT Iguess not GPT, your favorite AI?
I'm a chat GPT.
I guess not GPT your favoriteAI.
(20:49):
I'm a chat GPT fan and you canbuild your own ROI with your
brand and your information andyou're good to go.
I mean, if you follow the stuffwe're talking about in this
episode, I mean you're going tobe good.
But I get it.
You want to contact an attorney?
Have them double check with you, please.
Please do so as long as youfeel good, as long as you're
(21:11):
feeling comfortable and mainlyfor the potential clients
listening to this.
If this is what's been holdingyou back from going to therapy,
I want you to feel empowered.
Now you've got some questionsyou can ask this brand new
therapist, this potentialtherapist that you're also going
to interview.
Right, they're not justinterviewing you, you're
(21:32):
interviewing them, and nowyou've got some information
about how we handle protectedhealth information.
So go to therapy, all right,and we will end.
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