When supervision goes sideways, what's a pre-licensed therapist to do? In this candid conversation, Dr. Kate Walker and Jennifer Marie Fairchild pull back the curtain on one of the most anxiety-producing challenges facing associates and interns—addressing problematic supervision.
Many therapists-in-training find themselves frozen when faced with supervision red flags, trapped between speaking up and risking their relationship with someone who holds power over their career. This episode offers practical, actionable strategies for having these difficult conversations with confidence and professionalism.
We tackle the supervision power dynamic head-on, reminding associates that while these strategies empower you to advocate for yourself, the ultimate responsibility for a healthy supervision relationship lies with the supervisor. Learn how to document concerns, use "I" statements effectively, leverage your knowledge of state regulations, and bring solutions rather than just problems to the table.
Perhaps most importantly, we address the boundary-setting that sometimes becomes necessary in problematic supervision relationships. From networking resources to supervision directories, we outline concrete options for associates who may need to transition to new supervision. The mental health field desperately needs dedicated new professionals—you're too important to lose because of discouraging supervision experiences.
Whether you're currently experiencing supervision challenges or simply preparing yourself for potential future difficulties, this episode provides the roadmap and reassurance needed to navigate these waters with professionalism and self-advocacy. Remember that pushing back and developing your professional identity is a normal part of clinical development, not insubordination—and most supervisors genuinely want to support your growth when approached thoughtfully.
Ready to transform your supervision experience? Listen now to gain the confidence to address concerns, set healthy boundaries, and continue your journey toward full licensure with renewed clarity and purpose.
Get your step by step guide to private practice. Because you are too important to lose to not knowing the rules, going broke, burning out, and giving up. #counselorsdontquit.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
there.
Good, hey, I'm Dr Kate Walker.
This is Jennifer MarieFairchild, and we are going to
talk about having hard, toughconversations and we're going to
relate it to.
In fact, it's not even relatedto.
It's exactly for LPC associatesor pre-licensed folks, anybody
(00:24):
who is under supervision, ifthey are having some difficulty
with their supervisor.
So last time, jennifer and Ipulled back the curtain on the
warning signs of toxicsupervision.
Maybe as you listened youthought, uh-oh, I've seen some
of those.
Spotting the red flags is thefirst step, but the next step,
and the one that takes realcourage, is figuring out how to
(00:47):
speak up without tanking yourrelationship or your career.
Put a pin in that.
I'm going to come back to that.
That's exactly where we'reheaded today how to address
difficult supervision situationsin a way that's confident,
professional and safe for youand your clients.
Now you could tell I wasreading that and I wanted to
come back to that point abouttanking the relationship and
(01:11):
tanking your career.
Here's what you have tounderstand supervisees, interns,
anybody under supervision in aclinical setting.
The relationship is yoursupervisor's responsibility.
We teach the 40-hour trainingto become a supervisor.
We teach supervisors about theimportance of creating a safe
(01:34):
space for you supervisees.
So the things Jennifer and Iare going to talk about today, I
want to make it really clear.
I'm going to use Jennifer'sword we're empowering you.
We are not putting theobligation on you to fix
something that's broken, right,this is you sensing?
(01:54):
Okay, I think there's some redflags.
I've got to do something.
I've got to address thisbecause, jennifer, too often,
you know, we see usually in theinterwebs, right, we see threads
from supervisees who are justkind of frozen, right, I mean,
they don't know what to do.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
No, they feel completely at a loss.
For how do I navigate this?
Because the supervisor issupposed to be the expert and
they're supposed to knoweverything and you're, you know,
just a lowly supervisee.
What do you know?
Right?
And?
And trying to come to yoursupervisor and address an issue
(02:33):
can be incredibly intimidating.
I mean, I see, I see posts allthe time of supervisors who've
made this beautiful Canva andit's advertising all of their
services and they're looking forassociates.
But they say now, accepting newLPCAs, yeah, and you just sit
(02:53):
there and you want to go.
You know, polite reminder,there is no LPCA license.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
But even then you're like I don't want to make them
mad, Right, so, and for those ofyou who aren't, in Texas, lpca
is not a recognized definition,abbreviation of anything right,
it's got to be LPC associate.
And if your supervisor doesn'teven know that and they put that
(03:19):
in an advertisement, you knowanyway red flags, an
advertisement, you know anywayred flags.
So we're trying to empower you.
If you're listening to this andyou're in a situation where you
are frozen, you are.
You know, fight, flight, fear,fawn.
You know.
You're in a position whereyou're just not feeling
(03:41):
empowered to do anything oryou're in a situation so this is
kind of a funny thing In Texasyou do not have to be employed
at the same site as yoursupervisor.
Jennifer, you're in NewHampshire and the law is
different, right?
You're as a pre-licensed orprovisionally licensed person
there, you have to work at thesame place as your supervisor.
(04:01):
So in Texas, if you happen tobe working at the same site as
your supervisor or you'reemployed by your supervisor,
having this tough conversationtakes on a whole different
meaning, because you may beafraid for your job, for your
income.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Absolutely, and that is a real fear and I've talked
to other people and everything'sgreat until it's not and you
can hold your breath and truckalong and just keep your fingers
crossed.
But the reality is is we're allpeople with our own ideas and
concepts and you're eventuallygoing to, in some capacity,
(04:42):
clash as far as beliefs and howthings are supposed to go.
And if you work at the samesite that your clinical
supervision is taking place,it's like I'm not just telling
my clinical supervisor, Idisagree with them.
Now I'm telling my boss whocuts my paycheck.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yes, my boss who cuts my paycheck?
Yes, and supervisees.
As I mentioned, we teach thiscourse and one of the things we
really try to drill down and getinto our new supervisors' heads
is the idea that conflict isnormative, like that's part of
your development.
You're supposed to push back onyour supervisor.
(05:24):
You're supposed to develop yourown identity, you're supposed
to develop your own way of doingtherapy.
And if your supervisor sensesthat as insubordination, or you
know you're talking back or youknow we see that a lot too.
Right, when we're grading thesepapers and we're looking at all
(05:45):
these, you know the feedbackand the contracts and the plans
and supervisors don't.
And they learn, believe me,they learn from us and
supervisors that come out of theother end of our course and
they've got their certificate.
They understand that pushbackis normal and they're prepared
to handle these conversations,but not every supervisor is.
And they're prepared to handlethese conversations, but not
(06:07):
every supervisor is.
So I've got a list over here andI'm going to go through how to
be assertive not aggressive, butto be assertive and bring
topics up with your supervisor.
That may be difficult, so letme scroll, scroll, scroll, all
(06:30):
right.
Number one get clear on theissue first.
So if you notice a patternstarting to happen, one of the
things we talked about in thelast episode was if your
supervisor is unavailable,that's a huge red flag.
It goes against the laws inmost states for licensure, for
(06:52):
supervision.
It's just not a good situationIf you sense things like that
starting to happen, document thedates, examples and the impact
on clients or your work.
So when you have thisconversation you can stay
fact-based, so handing theevidence to the supervisor.
(07:12):
Jennifer, which one do you wantto talk about?
Speaker 2 (07:19):
So I love because in your 40-hour course we touch a
lot on the rules and the lawsand the board requirements and I
mean we have a lot of peoplethat come into the course and
they'll admittedly say I wasn'tfamiliar with this.
I've had people send an emailand say where do I go to find
(07:41):
BHEC rules?
And glad you're here becausewe're going to give you that
information.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
We wrap our arms around them and show them the
way.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
But I feel like by the time they leave your course
they have a pretty healthyunderstanding of where to find
the rules.
They don't have to memorize allof them, they don't need to
know 681.41 is blah, blah, blah,blah, blah.
But I encourage associates andinterns to know these things too
, because you can't argue withit Right and, in my
(08:11):
interpretation, or my opinion,because I heard somebody years
ago tell me something doesn'thold up to the actual law.
And, as an associate, if you'refamiliar with your state's laws
, if you're familiar with thedifference between you know ACA
code of ethics as a guidelineversus what is actual law in
(08:34):
your state, that's powerfulinformation and you can always
go to your supervisor and say,hey, this is the rule, can we
talk about it?
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Yes, yes, and coincidentally, that is actually
one of the rules for LPC andLMFT in Texas for supervisors.
You guys are supposed to bereading through the rules and
when we do get privy tocomplaints and that happens when
I'm asked to consult on casesand one of the things that I'll
(09:06):
see is oh, you know, they brokethis rule.
And then they go through yournotes and there's no evidence
that you ever talked about therule.
So this documentation, thisidea of evidence, supervisees.
I want you to take your ownnotes in every supervision
session so that when you do comewith an issue, you've got the
(09:26):
facts.
Okay, using I statements.
That's just good counseling,right?
I notice, I feel when thishappened, I felt, right that
less of an accusatory tone.
Right, don't come in with gunsblazing.
And that's something you wouldtell your client, right?
(09:48):
You would tell them.
Okay, if you're trying to havea conversation, you need to make
sure that you're coming from aspace of I.
If you do couple counseling,what I hear you saying is when I
hear that I feel All of thatstill works in a situation with
someone that you're trying tohave a difficult conversation
with.
But again, I'm going to justkeep telling you it is.
(10:09):
I just keep telling you it is.
I'm telling you how to approach, but I'm not telling you that
fixing this is your, is yourobligation.
This is, this is somethingwhere you're just you're saying,
hey, look, the tires flat, butit's up to the supervisor to
call the tow truck and changethe tire.
Ok, jennifer, any comments onthat?
(10:31):
I hope I'm saying that right.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
No, that was perfect To that point like you talk
about, like it's not your job torefill the tires, just to
notice.
We're human and a lot of peoplehaven't worked through stuff
and they have a defensivereaction.
And so if you go to yoursupervisor and you're like, hey,
I feel like this or I noticedthis, and your supervisor reacts
defensively, it's not your jobto help your supervisor walk
(10:59):
through that.
It's not your responsibility tofix their reaction.
You can't control theirreaction.
It's going to happen.
You get to decide.
Where am I going to go withthis?
What do I want out of this?
You brought it to the table,not I going to go with this.
What do I want out of this?
You brought it to the table,not your job to control their
(11:19):
response.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yes, I love that.
Yeah, and so I'm going to.
This just came to my mind and Iwant to piggyback on that,
because what we teach thisbrings up remediation.
Okay, so let's say that yoursupervisor sits you down and
says you know what?
You're getting a remediationplan today and you're like whoa,
is it?
Because it's Tuesday, likewhere did this come from?
And you don't have time tolisten to this podcast and look
(11:45):
through all the things, right?
I want you to keep in mind that, for remediation, best
practices, unless you've donesomething egregious, right?
If your supervisor just caughtyou having sex with the client,
well, forget about it.
You know what Remediate out ofhere.
Don't ever counsel again.
But I'm talking about if you'rein a situation where your
(12:05):
supervisor surprises you withsome sort of a negative critique
, evaluation, remediation,something like that.
As you're listening and you'retrying to manage your own
reaction, right, just likeJennifer's talking about.
You know that's hard to do.
I want you to keep in mind andthink ask yourself have I been
(12:27):
evaluated?
Did I ever see a supervisioncontract?
Was I ever taken through anorientation?
Right?
One of the things we teach atKate Walker Training is an OER
triad, which is an orientation,then regular evaluations before
remediation, and so once you getout of that supervision and you
(12:49):
have a chance to take a breath,sit down, write this down and
say wait a second, I was nevergiven a contract or I was never
given an orientation, or I'venever been evaluated right.
I know lots of supervisors outthere who still don't regularly
evaluate their supervisee.
(13:10):
And then when something doeshappen because maybe your
supervisor's on to something,maybe you are doing crappy notes
, maybe you still don't know howto reflect and extend, and your
supervisor has their owndifficulties with a difficult
conversation so out of the blue,they're going to be okay.
I got to fix this today whenthey really should have brought
(13:31):
it up the second or third week.
You guys were working together,right?
So this brings me to the nextthing, which is bring solutions,
not just problems, right?
So after you've had a chance tobreathe, you've listened to
this, you've written some thingsdown and you ask your
supervisor hey, can we talkabout this negative interaction
(13:54):
that we had?
Here's what I'm noticing,here's what I think should have
happened and here's what Ipropose.
I would really love to betaught the skill of reflecting
and extending meaning in aconversation.
I would really love the art ofsilence.
I would really like to learnhow to do this cognitive
(14:16):
behavioral worksheet in a waythat is super helpful for my
clients right.
Coming with solutions will helpyour supervisor, who you know
what.
They may be a level onesupervisor they just may be not
really great at supervising yet,and that's okay.
Supervisor they just may be notreally great at supervising yet
, and that's okay.
Everybody gets to be a beginnerJust not okay for you right now
(14:37):
.
So approaching that person withsolutions is going to help them
grow Again, not your job andyou will get a way forward
through this.
What do you think, jennifer?
Speaker 2 (14:51):
No, that I mean that, that I feel like that's even
just counseling in general, if,if somebody comes to us and
they're having some sort ofrelational issue, we tell them,
like don't just tell the otherperson all the litany list of
problems you have with them.
Bring solutions to the table.
People are more receptive whenthey think you care enough to
(15:12):
try to address the issue.
And so, yeah, no, I love it,bring solutions, because
problems just stack up.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Well, that's how your supervisor got there in the
first place, right?
If they're slapping you with aremediation plan and you thought
everything was great and maybeeven you know I'm going to go
ahead and throw some things infrom our previous episode If you
were doing things for thesupervisor that maybe crossed
some boundaries, like you werewriting policy and procedures,
(15:44):
manuals for them, or you werehelping them network with folks
who could help them get grants,or you were, you know something
beyond the scope of your job orclinical supervision, this could
feel like a real hit upside thehead, and so you approaching it
this way is going to help moveforward.
But here's the big but Nowpracticing self-care and
(16:09):
boundaries.
When Jennifer and I were firsttalking about this, you know we
come at boundaries as counselorsin one way, but if your
boundary has to be okay, I'vegot to.
I'm going to stay in thissupervision relationship, but I
have to have a boundary.
I mean Jennifer, I mean talkabout that a little bit, you
(16:30):
know, with your supervisor.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Well, I think that I think everybody kind of jumps to
the conclusion that a boundaryis I'm drawing an imaginary
fence in a box around me and ifyou cross, it all is going to
break loose.
But most of the time when we'redealing with people, we have to
put boundaries in place wherethey're going to cross your
little imaginary fence whetheryou like it or not.
(16:54):
So you have to decide what aremy boundaries?
Ok, if one of my boundaries isis I really need supervision
that is consistent and mysupervisor is available, and
then that supervisor doesn'tmeet that expectation.
The boundary is is how am Igoing to address it?
(17:14):
Am I just going to sit thereand whine about it?
Am I going to have thatdifficult conversation, or am I
going to seek a new supervisor?
So I like to use boundaries toempower people.
As in, you don't have to dealwith whatever it is somebody's
doing.
If you don't like that, everymorning your husband opens and
(17:38):
closes the door.
You don't need to yell at himall the time about opening and
closing the door.
You just get to decide if youwant to be married to him or not
.
And so it goes with supervisionright, like if you don't mesh
(18:03):
with your supervisor forwhatever reason you're not
married to them for life.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
You can find a new supervisor and you can.
I mean, we've got all kinds ofsupport.
That's the other thing.
I mean, if you're practicing inisolation, if you're in a rural
area, perhaps, and you don'thave a lot of resources around
you, well, if you've got theinternet, you can join Texas
Counselors Creating BadassBusinesses even if you're not in
Texas, right, Tons of peoplewho can help you network and
(18:27):
find other resources supervisors.
We have the new Facebook, whichhopefully, as of this recording
, it's not going to be that new.
We've got from class to couch,which is just for connecting
associates, pre-licensed folks,with supervisors, and we offer
meet and greets.
(18:47):
I mean, this is all free, weoffer all kinds of things and
it's a click away.
So I want to empower, oh andthe directory.
We have the Kate WalkerTraining Supervisor Directory.
They're all over Texas and Ithink 90% of them are virtual.
So if you're in Texas, you donot have to be employed at the
(19:11):
same location as your supervisor.
Now, that's not to say yoursupervisor might not make that a
condition for supervising,Supervisor might not make that a
condition for supervising.
And if that's the case, again,we got the badass group.
In the Facebook group you say,OK, look, I need a job, I need
other employment, I'm virtualcounseling something out there.
What I'm trying to say is thatI hope I'm saying what
Jennifer's saying, which is,you're not trapped If you have a
(19:35):
boundary that your supervisorcan't do this, this and this
right.
They can't just surprise mewith a remediation plan.
They can't just take threeweeks off and not tell me.
They can't just, you know, tellme.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Charge me $300 a session.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Oh my gosh, I almost forgot about that.
That is so.
I mean, we hear that all thetime.
Why am I paying $300 a week forsupervision?
If your boundary is beingcrossed, then you know red flag.
But then you have to dosomething and I'm sorry, not
sorry.
It's up to you to either havethe conversation or exit that
(20:16):
relationship, or both.
You know, hopefully both.
We want you to have theconversation, but you're too
important to lose because yougot discouraged because of bad
supervision.
You went through all thisschool.
You're paying money forsupervision, probably, and
you're seeing tons and tons andtons of clients because you're
grinding out those hours.
You want to get your fulllicense and you're getting
(20:39):
discouraged.
No, we don't want that.
You're too important to lose.
Your community needs you.
We have a mental healthshortage in Texas and I know I'm
sorry, not mental healthshortage, mental health provider
shortage.
We do not have a mental healthshortage.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Got plenty of that.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Yeah, so don't quit.
You're too important to lose.
So, no, don't quit.
Listen to this podcast again,get connected into community and
take your next steps.
All right, we're here for you.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
I did.
You reminded me of somethingthat I just wanted to touch on.
You know, we talk about thesedifficult conversations and a
lot of associates are fresh outof grad school and you have
these professors that hold allof the power right.
You know they get to decideultimately if your paper is
great or not, you know.
So you have all these peoplecoming out of that dynamic back
(21:35):
into a relationship wherethere's power, there's a power
imbalance and and I think someassociates probably there's just
this fear that if I speak up,I'm going to lose, and it's it's
like Oz pull back the curtain.
They're people and a lot ofthem are going to listen,
they're going to be receptive,they're going to be like, oh my
gosh, absolutely, and it's notgoing to be this big, scary,
(22:00):
difficult conversation.
A lot of supervisors areincredibly receptive to
listening and understanding andhearing you out, and so it may
seem like it's going to be thishorrible, difficult conversation
, but a lot of times it'sprobably not.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
I am so glad you brought that up.
Yeah, I mean, that's huge,right, because you do.
You don't feel you can goagainst a professor, and so you
carry that dynamic into thesupervision relationship.
And, yeah, most supervisorsthey want to do a good job,
right, especially if they camefrom our training, right, they
(22:40):
have the same philosophy we do.
They want you to grow, theydon't want you to quit, they
want to do better.
So, yes, that too.
So go do good work, have thedifficult conversation.
You can do this and keeplistening to this.
Thanks for tuning in.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Thank you, my voice cracked.
Thank you, okay.
there.
Good, hey, I'm Dr Kate Walker.
This is Jennifer MarieFairchild, and we are going to
talk about having hard, toughconversations and we're going to
relate it to.
In fact, it's not even relatedto.
It's exactly for LPC associatesor pre-licensed folks, anybody
(00:24):
who is under supervision, ifthey are having some difficulty
with their supervisor.
So last time, jennifer and Ipulled back the curtain on the
warning signs of toxicsupervision.
Maybe as you listened youthought, uh-oh, I've seen some
of those.
Spotting the red flags is thefirst step, but the next step,
and the one that takes realcourage, is figuring out how to
(00:47):
speak up without tanking yourrelationship or your career.
Put a pin in that.
I'm going to come back to that.
That's exactly where we'reheaded today how to address
difficult supervision situationsin a way that's confident,
professional and safe for youand your clients.
Now you could tell I wasreading that and I wanted to
come back to that point abouttanking the relationship and
(01:11):
tanking your career.
Here's what you have tounderstand supervisees, interns,
anybody under supervision in aclinical setting.
The relationship is yoursupervisor's responsibility.
We teach the 40-hour trainingto become a supervisor.
We teach supervisors about theimportance of creating a safe
(01:34):
space for you supervisees.
So the things Jennifer and Iare going to talk about today, I
want to make it really clear.
I'm going to use Jennifer'sword we're empowering you.
We are not putting theobligation on you to fix
something that's broken, right,this is you sensing?
(01:54):
Okay, I think there's some redflags.
I've got to do something.
I've got to address thisbecause, jennifer, too often,
you know, we see usually in theinterwebs, right, we see threads
from supervisees who are justkind of frozen, right, I mean,
they don't know what to do.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
No, they feel completely at a loss.
For how do I navigate this?
Because the supervisor issupposed to be the expert and
they're supposed to knoweverything and you're, you know,
just a lowly supervisee.
What do you know?
Right?
And?
And trying to come to yoursupervisor and address an issue
(02:33):
can be incredibly intimidating.
I mean, I see, I see posts allthe time of supervisors who've
made this beautiful Canva andit's advertising all of their
services and they're looking forassociates.
But they say now, accepting newLPCAs, yeah, and you just sit
(02:53):
there and you want to go.
You know, polite reminder,there is no LPCA license.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
But even then you're like I don't want to make them
mad, Right, so, and for those ofyou who aren't, in Texas, lpca
is not a recognized definition,abbreviation of anything right,
it's got to be LPC associate.
And if your supervisor doesn'teven know that and they put that
(03:19):
in an advertisement, you knowanyway red flags, an
advertisement, you know anywayred flags.
So we're trying to empower you.
If you're listening to this andyou're in a situation where you
are frozen, you are.
You know, fight, flight, fear,fawn.
You know.
You're in a position whereyou're just not feeling
(03:41):
empowered to do anything oryou're in a situation so this is
kind of a funny thing In Texasyou do not have to be employed
at the same site as yoursupervisor.
Jennifer, you're in NewHampshire and the law is
different, right?
You're as a pre-licensed orprovisionally licensed person
there, you have to work at thesame place as your supervisor.
(04:01):
So in Texas, if you happen tobe working at the same site as
your supervisor or you'reemployed by your supervisor,
having this tough conversationtakes on a whole different
meaning, because you may beafraid for your job, for your
income.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Absolutely, and that is a real fear and I've talked
to other people and everything'sgreat until it's not and you
can hold your breath and truckalong and just keep your fingers
crossed.
But the reality is is we're allpeople with our own ideas and
concepts and you're eventuallygoing to, in some capacity,
(04:42):
clash as far as beliefs and howthings are supposed to go.
And if you work at the samesite that your clinical
supervision is taking place,it's like I'm not just telling
my clinical supervisor, Idisagree with them.
Now I'm telling my boss whocuts my paycheck.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yes, my boss who cuts my paycheck?
Yes, and supervisees.
As I mentioned, we teach thiscourse and one of the things we
really try to drill down and getinto our new supervisors' heads
is the idea that conflict isnormative, like that's part of
your development.
You're supposed to push back onyour supervisor.
(05:24):
You're supposed to develop yourown identity, you're supposed
to develop your own way of doingtherapy.
And if your supervisor sensesthat as insubordination, or you
know you're talking back or youknow we see that a lot too.
Right, when we're grading thesepapers and we're looking at all
(05:45):
these, you know the feedbackand the contracts and the plans
and supervisors don't.
And they learn, believe me,they learn from us and
supervisors that come out of theother end of our course and
they've got their certificate.
They understand that pushbackis normal and they're prepared
to handle these conversations,but not every supervisor is.
And they're prepared to handlethese conversations, but not
(06:07):
every supervisor is.
So I've got a list over here andI'm going to go through how to
be assertive not aggressive, butto be assertive and bring
topics up with your supervisor.
That may be difficult, so letme scroll, scroll, scroll, all
(06:30):
right.
Number one get clear on theissue first.
So if you notice a patternstarting to happen, one of the
things we talked about in thelast episode was if your
supervisor is unavailable,that's a huge red flag.
It goes against the laws inmost states for licensure, for
(06:52):
supervision.
It's just not a good situationIf you sense things like that
starting to happen, document thedates, examples and the impact
on clients or your work.
So when you have thisconversation you can stay
fact-based, so handing theevidence to the supervisor.
(07:12):
Jennifer, which one do you wantto talk about?
Speaker 2 (07:19):
So I love because in your 40-hour course we touch a
lot on the rules and the lawsand the board requirements and I
mean we have a lot of peoplethat come into the course and
they'll admittedly say I wasn'tfamiliar with this.
I've had people send an emailand say where do I go to find
(07:41):
BHEC rules?
And glad you're here becausewe're going to give you that
information.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
We wrap our arms around them and show them the
way.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
But I feel like by the time they leave your course
they have a pretty healthyunderstanding of where to find
the rules.
They don't have to memorize allof them, they don't need to
know 681.41 is blah, blah, blah,blah, blah.
But I encourage associates andinterns to know these things too
, because you can't argue withit Right and, in my
(08:11):
interpretation, or my opinion,because I heard somebody years
ago tell me something doesn'thold up to the actual law.
And, as an associate, if you'refamiliar with your state's laws
, if you're familiar with thedifference between you know ACA
code of ethics as a guidelineversus what is actual law in
(08:34):
your state, that's powerfulinformation and you can always
go to your supervisor and say,hey, this is the rule, can we
talk about it?
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Yes, yes, and coincidentally, that is actually
one of the rules for LPC andLMFT in Texas for supervisors.
You guys are supposed to bereading through the rules and
when we do get privy tocomplaints and that happens when
I'm asked to consult on casesand one of the things that I'll
(09:06):
see is oh, you know, they brokethis rule.
And then they go through yournotes and there's no evidence
that you ever talked about therule.
So this documentation, thisidea of evidence, supervisees.
I want you to take your ownnotes in every supervision
session so that when you do comewith an issue, you've got the
(09:26):
facts.
Okay, using I statements.
That's just good counseling,right?
I notice, I feel when thishappened, I felt, right that
less of an accusatory tone.
Right, don't come in with gunsblazing.
And that's something you wouldtell your client, right?
(09:48):
You would tell them.
Okay, if you're trying to havea conversation, you need to make
sure that you're coming from aspace of I.
If you do couple counseling,what I hear you saying is when I
hear that I feel All of thatstill works in a situation with
someone that you're trying tohave a difficult conversation
with.
But again, I'm going to justkeep telling you it is.
(10:09):
I just keep telling you it is.
I'm telling you how to approach, but I'm not telling you that
fixing this is your, is yourobligation.
This is, this is somethingwhere you're just you're saying,
hey, look, the tires flat, butit's up to the supervisor to
call the tow truck and changethe tire.
Ok, jennifer, any comments onthat?
(10:31):
I hope I'm saying that right.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
No, that was perfect To that point like you talk
about, like it's not your job torefill the tires, just to
notice.
We're human and a lot of peoplehaven't worked through stuff
and they have a defensivereaction.
And so if you go to yoursupervisor and you're like, hey,
I feel like this or I noticedthis, and your supervisor reacts
defensively, it's not your jobto help your supervisor walk
(10:59):
through that.
It's not your responsibility tofix their reaction.
You can't control theirreaction.
It's going to happen.
You get to decide.
Where am I going to go withthis?
What do I want out of this?
You brought it to the table,not I going to go with this.
What do I want out of this?
You brought it to the table,not your job to control their
(11:19):
response.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yes, I love that.
Yeah, and so I'm going to.
This just came to my mind and Iwant to piggyback on that,
because what we teach thisbrings up remediation.
Okay, so let's say that yoursupervisor sits you down and
says you know what?
You're getting a remediationplan today and you're like whoa,
is it?
Because it's Tuesday, likewhere did this come from?
And you don't have time tolisten to this podcast and look
(11:45):
through all the things, right?
I want you to keep in mind that, for remediation, best
practices, unless you've donesomething egregious, right?
If your supervisor just caughtyou having sex with the client,
well, forget about it.
You know what Remediate out ofhere.
Don't ever counsel again.
But I'm talking about if you'rein a situation where your
(12:05):
supervisor surprises you withsome sort of a negative critique
, evaluation, remediation,something like that.
As you're listening and you'retrying to manage your own
reaction, right, just likeJennifer's talking about.
You know that's hard to do.
I want you to keep in mind andthink ask yourself have I been
(12:27):
evaluated?
Did I ever see a supervisioncontract?
Was I ever taken through anorientation?
Right?
One of the things we teach atKate Walker Training is an OER
triad, which is an orientation,then regular evaluations before
remediation, and so once you getout of that supervision and you
(12:49):
have a chance to take a breath,sit down, write this down and
say wait a second, I was nevergiven a contract or I was never
given an orientation, or I'venever been evaluated right.
I know lots of supervisors outthere who still don't regularly
evaluate their supervisee.
(13:10):
And then when something doeshappen because maybe your
supervisor's on to something,maybe you are doing crappy notes
, maybe you still don't know howto reflect and extend, and your
supervisor has their owndifficulties with a difficult
conversation so out of the blue,they're going to be okay.
I got to fix this today whenthey really should have brought
(13:31):
it up the second or third week.
You guys were working together,right?
So this brings me to the nextthing, which is bring solutions,
not just problems, right?
So after you've had a chance tobreathe, you've listened to
this, you've written some thingsdown and you ask your
supervisor hey, can we talkabout this negative interaction
(13:54):
that we had?
Here's what I'm noticing,here's what I think should have
happened and here's what Ipropose.
I would really love to betaught the skill of reflecting
and extending meaning in aconversation.
I would really love the art ofsilence.
I would really like to learnhow to do this cognitive
(14:16):
behavioral worksheet in a waythat is super helpful for my
clients right.
Coming with solutions will helpyour supervisor, who you know
what.
They may be a level onesupervisor they just may be not
really great at supervising yet,and that's okay.
Supervisor they just may be notreally great at supervising yet
, and that's okay.
Everybody gets to be a beginnerJust not okay for you right now
(14:37):
.
So approaching that person withsolutions is going to help them
grow Again, not your job andyou will get a way forward
through this.
What do you think, jennifer?
Speaker 2 (14:51):
No, that I mean that, that I feel like that's even
just counseling in general, if,if somebody comes to us and
they're having some sort ofrelational issue, we tell them,
like don't just tell the otherperson all the litany list of
problems you have with them.
Bring solutions to the table.
People are more receptive whenthey think you care enough to
(15:12):
try to address the issue.
And so, yeah, no, I love it,bring solutions, because
problems just stack up.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Well, that's how your supervisor got there in the
first place, right?
If they're slapping you with aremediation plan and you thought
everything was great and maybeeven you know I'm going to go
ahead and throw some things infrom our previous episode If you
were doing things for thesupervisor that maybe crossed
some boundaries, like you werewriting policy and procedures,
(15:44):
manuals for them, or you werehelping them network with folks
who could help them get grants,or you were, you know something
beyond the scope of your job orclinical supervision, this could
feel like a real hit upside thehead, and so you approaching it
this way is going to help moveforward.
But here's the big but Nowpracticing self-care and
(16:09):
boundaries.
When Jennifer and I were firsttalking about this, you know we
come at boundaries as counselorsin one way, but if your
boundary has to be okay, I'vegot to.
I'm going to stay in thissupervision relationship, but I
have to have a boundary.
I mean Jennifer, I mean talkabout that a little bit, you
(16:30):
know, with your supervisor.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Well, I think that I think everybody kind of jumps to
the conclusion that a boundaryis I'm drawing an imaginary
fence in a box around me and ifyou cross, it all is going to
break loose.
But most of the time when we'redealing with people, we have to
put boundaries in place wherethey're going to cross your
little imaginary fence whetheryou like it or not.
(16:54):
So you have to decide what aremy boundaries?
Ok, if one of my boundaries isis I really need supervision
that is consistent and mysupervisor is available, and
then that supervisor doesn'tmeet that expectation.
The boundary is is how am Igoing to address it?
(17:14):
Am I just going to sit thereand whine about it?
Am I going to have thatdifficult conversation, or am I
going to seek a new supervisor?
So I like to use boundaries toempower people.
As in, you don't have to dealwith whatever it is somebody's
doing.
If you don't like that, everymorning your husband opens and
(17:38):
closes the door.
You don't need to yell at himall the time about opening and
closing the door.
You just get to decide if youwant to be married to him or not
.
And so it goes with supervisionright, like if you don't mesh
(18:03):
with your supervisor forwhatever reason you're not
married to them for life.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
You can find a new supervisor and you can.
I mean, we've got all kinds ofsupport.
That's the other thing.
I mean, if you're practicing inisolation, if you're in a rural
area, perhaps, and you don'thave a lot of resources around
you, well, if you've got theinternet, you can join Texas
Counselors Creating BadassBusinesses even if you're not in
Texas, right, Tons of peoplewho can help you network and
(18:27):
find other resources supervisors.
We have the new Facebook, whichhopefully, as of this recording
, it's not going to be that new.
We've got from class to couch,which is just for connecting
associates, pre-licensed folks,with supervisors, and we offer
meet and greets.
(18:47):
I mean, this is all free, weoffer all kinds of things and
it's a click away.
So I want to empower, oh andthe directory.
We have the Kate WalkerTraining Supervisor Directory.
They're all over Texas and Ithink 90% of them are virtual.
So if you're in Texas, you donot have to be employed at the
(19:11):
same location as your supervisor.
Now, that's not to say yoursupervisor might not make that a
condition for supervising,Supervisor might not make that a
condition for supervising.
And if that's the case, again,we got the badass group.
In the Facebook group you say,OK, look, I need a job, I need
other employment, I'm virtualcounseling something out there.
What I'm trying to say is thatI hope I'm saying what
Jennifer's saying, which is,you're not trapped If you have a
(19:35):
boundary that your supervisorcan't do this, this and this
right.
They can't just surprise mewith a remediation plan.
They can't just take threeweeks off and not tell me.
They can't just, you know, tellme.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Charge me $300 a session.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Oh my gosh, I almost forgot about that.
That is so.
I mean, we hear that all thetime.
Why am I paying $300 a week forsupervision?
If your boundary is beingcrossed, then you know red flag.
But then you have to dosomething and I'm sorry, not
sorry.
It's up to you to either havethe conversation or exit that
(20:16):
relationship, or both.
You know, hopefully both.
We want you to have theconversation, but you're too
important to lose because yougot discouraged because of bad
supervision.
You went through all thisschool.
You're paying money forsupervision, probably, and
you're seeing tons and tons andtons of clients because you're
grinding out those hours.
You want to get your fulllicense and you're getting
(20:39):
discouraged.
No, we don't want that.
You're too important to lose.
Your community needs you.
We have a mental healthshortage in Texas and I know I'm
sorry, not mental healthshortage, mental health provider
shortage.
We do not have a mental healthshortage.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Got plenty of that.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Yeah, so don't quit.
You're too important to lose.
So, no, don't quit.
Listen to this podcast again,get connected into community and
take your next steps.
All right, we're here for you.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
I did.
You reminded me of somethingthat I just wanted to touch on.
You know, we talk about thesedifficult conversations and a
lot of associates are fresh outof grad school and you have
these professors that hold allof the power right.
You know they get to decideultimately if your paper is
great or not, you know.
So you have all these peoplecoming out of that dynamic back
(21:35):
into a relationship wherethere's power, there's a power
imbalance and and I think someassociates probably there's just
this fear that if I speak up,I'm going to lose, and it's it's
like Oz pull back the curtain.
They're people and a lot ofthem are going to listen,
they're going to be receptive,they're going to be like, oh my
gosh, absolutely, and it's notgoing to be this big, scary,
(22:00):
difficult conversation.
A lot of supervisors areincredibly receptive to
listening and understanding andhearing you out, and so it may
seem like it's going to be thishorrible, difficult conversation
, but a lot of times it'sprobably not.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
I am so glad you brought that up.
Yeah, I mean, that's huge,right, because you do.
You don't feel you can goagainst a professor, and so you
carry that dynamic into thesupervision relationship.
And, yeah, most supervisorsthey want to do a good job,
right, especially if they camefrom our training, right, they
(22:40):
have the same philosophy we do.
They want you to grow, theydon't want you to quit, they
want to do better.
So, yes, that too.
So go do good work, have thedifficult conversation.
You can do this and keeplistening to this.
Thanks for tuning in.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Thank you, my voice cracked.
Thank you, okay.
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