October 9, 2025 • 21 mins
Toxic supervision relationships damage our profession, but preventing them requires simpler solutions than many realize. Drawing from recent surveys and proposed rule changes, this episode dives deep into what makes supervision relationships thrive or fail.
At the heart of preventing problematic supervision sits the humble supervision contract - a document not currently required by licensing boards but essential to establishing clear expectations. When supervisors charge fees that exceed what supervisees earn hourly without providing commensurate value through amenities like office space, administrative support, or specialized expertise, resentment inevitably follows. Transparency about financial arrangements, scheduling expectations, and evaluation procedures creates the foundation for healthy supervision.
The most troubling revelation comes when examining supervisor termination protocols - or lack thereof. Currently, supervisors have no formal mechanism to end relationships with problematic supervisees, remaining responsible until the supervisee secures another supervisor or upgrades their license. This regulatory gap creates professional vulnerability that puts supervisors in precarious positions when ethical concerns arise. While proposed rule changes aim to address these issues, the path forward requires both regulatory updates and individual commitment to professional best practices.
Whether you supervise clinicians or are under supervision yourself, understanding these dynamics transforms how you approach these crucial relationships. Join the conversation about creating supervision environments that foster growth rather than toxicity, and help shape the future of our profession by advocating for clearer guidelines around contracts, fees, and termination protocols.
Get your step by step guide to private practice. Because you are too important to lose to not knowing the rules, going broke, burning out, and giving up. #counselorsdontquit.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
no-transcript.
(04:56):
I've got my list open in casewe have more folks that want to
attend today.
So last week I talked abouttoxic supervision, what that
looks like, and then I said,okay, this week, today, I would
hopefully be able to provide youwith more specifics, and I can,
because we've got some surveysthat are coming out, and surveys
(05:20):
are based on, you know, input.
I mean, they're trying togather data, but they have to
start somewhere, so they'recoming from data, trying to
gather more data.
Also, there is another not apetition going around, but
there's some information goingaround about trying to change
some rules, and so I've got, Ihave opinions.
(05:43):
I'm sure you folks do too, I'msure, and I hope you make your
position known.
But I want to go through thatas well, because where I'm
coming up with this, how can wemake supervision not toxic?
What are things we can activelydo or change?
It's simpler than you think,and if you've taken the Kate
(06:04):
Walker training 40-hour training, whether you've taken it, taken
it this year or you took it 15years ago, we've been teaching
the same framework.
You know, laws change, ruleschange, lots of things change,
but the, the framework stays thesame and it's the relationship
right.
We want to preserve therelationship, right, we want to
(06:26):
preserve the relationship and soI'm going to start with the
LMFT survey that's going around,the LPC survey.
As of the date of thisrecording, it's 9-23 today, so
it will probably be out by thetime.
I'm able to put this into theStep it Up profile, so hopefully
you'll be filling it out bythen.
But some of the questions thatare being asked how many
(06:51):
supervisors did you have?
What was the highest amount youpaid for supervision?
And so what was this amount perhour, per week, per month?
And this question was reallyinteresting to me If you paid a
set fee, was the fee higher thanyour hourly rate?
(07:14):
So this is asking thesupervisee is the supervision
fee matching the hourly rate?
Is it higher than the hourlyrate?
And then, how reasonable didyou find the fee to be?
And were there any amenitiesincluded in this set fee?
What were those amenities?
(07:34):
I'm on question 18.
So we just had a whole batch ofquestions right there related
to fees, and if I were to pullup the other petition, you would
see we would notice cut it out,buddy.
We would notice that fees arehuge, and I'm going to tie this
(07:56):
up in just a second.
So, thinking about fees, whatis your fee?
Is it reasonable?
And if it's high, you know yourfee.
Is it reasonable?
And if it's high, you know highfor your area, high for your
demographic, high for yourspecialty.
What else are you offering?
That's what amenities are.
So some examples of amenitiesoffice space, office furniture,
administrative support,administrative support for
(08:18):
billing, client referrals, etc.
Etc.
So that's going to be huge.
Then the next set of questionsspeak to was your supervision in
person or virtual.
So this is LMFT and remember,lmft has always struggled with
this idea of providing anythingvirtually, and you know they
(08:39):
just got rid of the rulesprohibiting telephone
supervision, like this past rulechange.
So that's what I imagine a lotof that is about.
So I'm interested to see we maysee some data that comes back
where folks are wanting morein-person supervision or maybe
they're wanting more virtual.
I don't know how many folkssupervising we have out there
(09:01):
who are like no, I just want tobe in person, I like virtual.
Continuing on group supervisionhow many people are in the
group is one thing that they'reasking, and I know there are a
lot of supervisors out there whodon't realize, you know,
whether it's the law in yourstate or not, you know.
(09:23):
50 percent, that's all youshould be providing in a group.
That's going to be three ormore in your supervision and
some folks are still providinggroup supervision every single
time.
And then there's a lot of thereare a lot of questions about
skills and did supervision teachyou those skills?
(09:48):
And then it just gets to harm.
Asking respondents, were theyharmed in supervision and the
extent?
And so, using the so number one, and this is what I was going
to circle back to, did you havea contract?
So I'm not talking about thepaperwork that we submit to the
(10:09):
state, talking about thepaperwork that we submit to the
state as of this recording.
No contract is required in therules, but it's always been best
practices.
So providing a contract isnumber one.
Establishing expectations at theonset of supervision, tracking
experience hours weekly.
Was the supervisor availablebetween supervision sessions?
(10:32):
Did they provide one hour ofsupervision each week?
Did they address issues in therelationship?
So, in other words, you know Ican see you're standoffish today
.
What's going on?
Are you mad at me?
Are you angry with your clients?
I mean, are you a supervisorwho's able to address conflict
and approach it right, or do youjust withdraw and pretend like
(10:55):
it's not there?
Did your supervisor behaveunethically?
Did your supervisor ask you foradvice or ask you to educate
them about areas in which I havetraining or expertise?
And we see this a lot,especially in the multicultural
arena?
Well, you know I'm not this, sowhy don't you tell me about
(11:17):
that?
And that's wonderful, you know,if you've started the
conversation.
But for a supervisor to dependon the supervisee to teach them
or handhold them through thosethings, rather than the
supervisor becomingmulticulturally competent
themselves, yeah, that's notgood.
And then did this supervisorprovide evaluative feedback?
(11:42):
Now, if you've taken the KateWalker training course, you know
we talk about summative andformative evaluation, right?
Formative is, like every day,good job.
I really like the way you'reprocessing Great
conceptualization.
Summative is paper and pencil.
You know I'm going to put thatin air quotes.
You don't have to have paperand pencil, but it has to be
(12:03):
something that's documented andthat's what we teach in the
course.
We call it the OER triadorientation, evaluation, then
remediation.
So that's one of the thingsthey're asking.
On the survey, did you provideor did you I'm sorry this is to
the supervisee did you receiveevaluative feedback?
(12:25):
Were you enabled to developyour own style.
Were you treated with respect,was confidentiality maintained?
And then it gets intoexploitation, embarrassment,
shame, public humiliation, usedrugs with me.
So it goes to an extreme.
Y'all aren't doing that, I'mnot going to go there.
(12:47):
But when we start with, okay,what can we do?
You got to have a contract.
Now the contract does not haveto be set in stone, and I think
this is why maybe supervisorsdon't do it, because obviously
things are going to change.
(13:08):
Your fees may change, the daysof the week you meet may change,
your evaluation schedule maychange, and you know what.
That's okay, you can change allof those things.
But, as I mentioned last timewe talked about this, when you
mess with someone's money or youmess with someone's time, there
(13:28):
will be negative consequences.
Someone's time, there will benegative consequences, and so
having a contract is just aneasy way to get that out in the
open.
Because the petition if I pullthat up, you know one of the
first things no, adobe, I don'twant to try that or learn that,
thank you.
One of the first things that itmentions is the idea of no, I'm
(13:52):
sorry, it's not the first thing, it's actually number five
Compensation and supervisioncost guidelines.
This is the request Add a newsubsection to 68193 requiring
that supervision fees bereasonable, clearly disclosed
(14:13):
and agreed upon in writingbefore supervision begins.
Y'all that's contract right.
I mean, if we have supervisorsout there that are not
disclosing fees or they'resaying one thing when they sign
the paperwork and then they'rechanging it when something else
happens, right that's.
I just don't see why we need mysoapbox.
(14:37):
I would hate to see a ruleenacted that forces us to do
something when best practicessays this is what we should be
doing anyway.
So, making sure that you arebeing very transparent about the
compensation.
And then you know, the question, like I said, I've seen again
(14:59):
and again and again is is yoursupervisor charging more than
your hourly rate?
So that's the supervisee's ratethat they charge for clients or
the rate that they're gettingpaid by their agency?
And if so, it's always tiedinto this.
What are you getting Right?
(15:21):
I mean, if you are going to bean EMDR specialist and you're
going to supervise someone andat the same time, make sure that
they are EMDR certified, chargefor that, all right, that's
great, put it in your contract.
But I think what they're seeingand they're calling it
exploitation, is whensupervisees are being charged
(15:43):
double perhaps their hourly ratenot our hourly rate, but the
supervisee's hourly rate andthey're really not getting
anything for it.
So I and other supervisors, youknow, we are sort of standing on
our soapboxes going buyerbeware, buyer beware, come on,
read the contract.
(16:03):
And then it's like, oh, lots ofsupervisors aren't doing
contracts.
So I'm just like I've got apalm print right here where I
just like, oh my gosh, you know,we need to put this stuff, we
do it with our clients.
Right, it's got to be in theservice agreement.
How much are we going to charge?
You can't change anything in aservice agreement or consent for
(16:24):
treatment with your clientunless it's in writing.
That is in the rules.
So let me circle back to numberone.
Number one is failure to meetmonthly supervision minimum.
This is if the supervisee does,it doesn't say explicitly in
the rules that they lose all oftheir hours.
(16:44):
So they want that clarified.
Yeah, that's fair, I don'tblame them.
Number two they want to rulethey.
The petition says I don't wantto rule they.
The petition says I don't wantto represent that.
This represents all supervisees.
The petition says uh, requiresupervision contracts.
I don't have a problem withthat.
Um, I think it might burdenstaff if we're having to upload
(17:05):
forms and upload contracts andupdated contracts, and updated
contracts.
So I'm not sure how they woulddo that unless they, you know,
simply say it must be in thefile and then, if they pull
records, they could see thatEthical.
Number three is ethicaloversight of supervisory
(17:26):
business practices.
I don't.
I'm pretty sure in Texas theLPC board doesn't have that
authority and statute to overseeethical business.
But again, that's why peoplejoin, step it Up.
You guys are, so you're goingto be ethical, we're going to
make sure you're ethical.
And then number four numberfour I need to do a whole
(17:48):
webinar on.
So here's the thing Supervision, supervisor, termination
protocols.
Did y'all know that supervisorshave no mechanism to terminate
their supervisee?
Like, we talked about that alittle bit last time, but I'm
(18:09):
still getting this.
What, what?
Even you know, in the TexasSupervisor Coalition Facebook
group had one of our attorneys,who's also a supervisor, say
what you know.
But it's true, you are thesupervisor of record Right until
that supervisee upgrades orgets another supervisor.
(18:30):
I mean, they can backdate it.
They meaning staff.
Once they get the paperwork.
They can backdate it to the dayyou say we are through.
But in that meantime, thatlimbo, no man's land, you are
the supervisor, and so that'sone of the things you know.
Even I've probably confusedfolks in my course, because if a
(18:53):
supervisee does somethingegregious, I preach hey, that's
the one time you don't need aremediation plan, get them off
your roster, you know, file thecomplaint, et cetera, et cetera,
etc, etc.
(19:16):
And now, as I've learned more,I'm seeing wait, you're still
the supervisor of record, andnow you've got somebody who
actually, you know, does a poorjob.
It's probably important thatyou do really extra oversight on
this person.
Until the complaint goesthrough, the supervision is
backdated, terminated, right,all of these things.
So I say all of that becausenumber four asks that the
(19:41):
supervisor not be able toterminate the supervisee
relationship.
I'm going to read it.
I'm saying it wrong.
Supervisor terminates asupervisory relationship.
They must provide at least 30days written notice to the LPC
associate and the board.
That's what they're requesting.
The notice must include theeffective date, the general
reason for termination andconfirmation that final logs
(20:02):
will be submitted.
Failure to provide timelynotice or documentation may be
grounds for disciplinary review.
So the problem with that isthere's already a rule.
We must turn it in allpaperwork within 30 days of
terminating the superviseerelationship.
(20:22):
But then we have the sameproblem.
We can't really terminate it.
We can say and my example inthe Facebook group is like it's
like telling your spouse Idivorce you, right, I divorce
you.
Well, it's not official untilthe powers that be say it's
official.
We're kind of in the samepredicament.
So right now the superviseeshold all the power because if
(20:45):
they want to fire us, they cango, have you know and form
relationships with anothersupervisor, fill out the
paperwork, turn in the paperworkthey don't even have to tell us
and then show up to supervisionand say hey, by the way,
instead of that completing thatremediation plan, I'm firing you
.
So see, ya, right, and there'sno rule that says that you get
(21:08):
to communicate with that newsupervisor.
So this one I think well, thereare a couple of them.
I don't think that one has awhole lot of merit.
So you know, back to the titleof this training and I want to
open it up to questions for youguys.
But when you're preventing atoxic climate, it really does
(21:33):
start with that contractdefining how you will charge
them, how often, what comes withit and when meetings happen.
And that includes you notshowing up for supervision,
right?
If you're not able to makesupervision, are you making sure
that that supervisee now getstheir four hours of supervision?
(21:56):
If you're in Texas, lpc weeklysupervision, if you're an LMFT
or other disciplines are youdoing your due diligence?
Or are you saying, hey, youknow, I just don't have time to
make it up, well, that's on you,and that not only will create a
toxic climate, but that'sactually reportable, right?
Your supervisee can report youfor not being available for
(22:19):
supervision.
So define the time, define themoney and then define the what
ifs.
Well, what if your superviseehas a job change and they can't
come Tuesday at 4 30 anymore,right?
Or what if you can't?
What if your situation changesand you can't do supervision at
(22:40):
four o'clock on Wednesdays?
So the late cancel no-showpolicy that's one of the things
we really pound into folks'heads in the K-Walker training.
We want you to have alate-cancel-no-show policy.
And then the creme de la creme,the number one thing that I see
(23:04):
folks complained about is whenyou slap somebody with a
remediation plan or you do sayI'm firing you after 12 and a
half months of everything beingpeachy.
Right, if your LPC associate ison track to finish at 18 months
(23:25):
and at 16 and a half monthsyou're saying you know what?
I'm going to give you aremediation plan because you're
being a little bit, you got alittle bit of an attitude.
Come on, if you took my course,you know.
Level two behavior is that pushand pull.
They are developing their ownstyle, they are trying to
(23:45):
establish themselves in theircounselor identity.
So, again, how do you define?
Well, they're just annoying.
Well, you pull out your LAMB-E,ccsr, your evaluation
instrument, you find thecriteria that matches that you
make sure, and I'm sorry, ifyou're at 16 and a half months
and you have never given anevaluation, then before you fire
(24:09):
that supervisee or slap themwith a remediation plan out of
the blue, I would give them anevaluation and start the
conversation.
So hopefully that addresseseverything, but I want to answer
your questions, so I'm going toopen it up.
I'll go ahead and hit record.
No, I'll turn off record, okay.
no-transcript.
(04:56):
I've got my list open in casewe have more folks that want to
attend today.
So last week I talked abouttoxic supervision, what that
looks like, and then I said,okay, this week, today, I would
hopefully be able to provide youwith more specifics, and I can,
because we've got some surveysthat are coming out, and surveys
(05:20):
are based on, you know, input.
I mean, they're trying togather data, but they have to
start somewhere, so they'recoming from data, trying to
gather more data.
Also, there is another not apetition going around, but
there's some information goingaround about trying to change
some rules, and so I've got, Ihave opinions.
(05:43):
I'm sure you folks do too, I'msure, and I hope you make your
position known.
But I want to go through thatas well, because where I'm
coming up with this, how can wemake supervision not toxic?
What are things we can activelydo or change?
It's simpler than you think,and if you've taken the Kate
(06:04):
Walker training 40-hour training, whether you've taken it, taken
it this year or you took it 15years ago, we've been teaching
the same framework.
You know, laws change, ruleschange, lots of things change,
but the, the framework stays thesame and it's the relationship
right.
We want to preserve therelationship, right, we want to
(06:26):
preserve the relationship and soI'm going to start with the
LMFT survey that's going around,the LPC survey.
As of the date of thisrecording, it's 9-23 today, so
it will probably be out by thetime.
I'm able to put this into theStep it Up profile, so hopefully
you'll be filling it out bythen.
But some of the questions thatare being asked how many
(06:51):
supervisors did you have?
What was the highest amount youpaid for supervision?
And so what was this amount perhour, per week, per month?
And this question was reallyinteresting to me If you paid a
set fee, was the fee higher thanyour hourly rate?
(07:14):
So this is asking thesupervisee is the supervision
fee matching the hourly rate?
Is it higher than the hourlyrate?
And then, how reasonable didyou find the fee to be?
And were there any amenitiesincluded in this set fee?
What were those amenities?
(07:34):
I'm on question 18.
So we just had a whole batch ofquestions right there related
to fees, and if I were to pullup the other petition, you would
see we would notice cut it out,buddy.
We would notice that fees arehuge, and I'm going to tie this
(07:56):
up in just a second.
So, thinking about fees, whatis your fee?
Is it reasonable?
And if it's high, you know yourfee.
Is it reasonable?
And if it's high, you know highfor your area, high for your
demographic, high for yourspecialty.
What else are you offering?
That's what amenities are.
So some examples of amenitiesoffice space, office furniture,
administrative support,administrative support for
(08:18):
billing, client referrals, etc.
Etc.
So that's going to be huge.
Then the next set of questionsspeak to was your supervision in
person or virtual.
So this is LMFT and remember,lmft has always struggled with
this idea of providing anythingvirtually, and you know they
(08:39):
just got rid of the rulesprohibiting telephone
supervision, like this past rulechange.
So that's what I imagine a lotof that is about.
So I'm interested to see we maysee some data that comes back
where folks are wanting morein-person supervision or maybe
they're wanting more virtual.
I don't know how many folkssupervising we have out there
(09:01):
who are like no, I just want tobe in person, I like virtual.
Continuing on group supervisionhow many people are in the
group is one thing that they'reasking, and I know there are a
lot of supervisors out there whodon't realize, you know,
whether it's the law in yourstate or not, you know.
(09:23):
50 percent, that's all youshould be providing in a group.
That's going to be three ormore in your supervision and
some folks are still providinggroup supervision every single
time.
And then there's a lot of thereare a lot of questions about
skills and did supervision teachyou those skills?
(09:48):
And then it just gets to harm.
Asking respondents, were theyharmed in supervision and the
extent?
And so, using the so number one, and this is what I was going
to circle back to, did you havea contract?
So I'm not talking about thepaperwork that we submit to the
(10:09):
state, talking about thepaperwork that we submit to the
state as of this recording.
No contract is required in therules, but it's always been best
practices.
So providing a contract isnumber one.
Establishing expectations at theonset of supervision, tracking
experience hours weekly.
Was the supervisor availablebetween supervision sessions?
(10:32):
Did they provide one hour ofsupervision each week?
Did they address issues in therelationship?
So, in other words, you know Ican see you're standoffish today
.
What's going on?
Are you mad at me?
Are you angry with your clients?
I mean, are you a supervisorwho's able to address conflict
and approach it right, or do youjust withdraw and pretend like
(10:55):
it's not there?
Did your supervisor behaveunethically?
Did your supervisor ask you foradvice or ask you to educate
them about areas in which I havetraining or expertise?
And we see this a lot,especially in the multicultural
arena?
Well, you know I'm not this, sowhy don't you tell me about
(11:17):
that?
And that's wonderful, you know,if you've started the
conversation.
But for a supervisor to dependon the supervisee to teach them
or handhold them through thosethings, rather than the
supervisor becomingmulticulturally competent
themselves, yeah, that's notgood.
And then did this supervisorprovide evaluative feedback?
(11:42):
Now, if you've taken the KateWalker training course, you know
we talk about summative andformative evaluation, right?
Formative is, like every day,good job.
I really like the way you'reprocessing Great
conceptualization.
Summative is paper and pencil.
You know I'm going to put thatin air quotes.
You don't have to have paperand pencil, but it has to be
(12:03):
something that's documented andthat's what we teach in the
course.
We call it the OER triadorientation, evaluation, then
remediation.
So that's one of the thingsthey're asking.
On the survey, did you provideor did you I'm sorry this is to
the supervisee did you receiveevaluative feedback?
(12:25):
Were you enabled to developyour own style.
Were you treated with respect,was confidentiality maintained?
And then it gets intoexploitation, embarrassment,
shame, public humiliation, usedrugs with me.
So it goes to an extreme.
Y'all aren't doing that, I'mnot going to go there.
(12:47):
But when we start with, okay,what can we do?
You got to have a contract.
Now the contract does not haveto be set in stone, and I think
this is why maybe supervisorsdon't do it, because obviously
things are going to change.
(13:08):
Your fees may change, the daysof the week you meet may change,
your evaluation schedule maychange, and you know what.
That's okay, you can change allof those things.
But, as I mentioned last timewe talked about this, when you
mess with someone's money or youmess with someone's time, there
(13:28):
will be negative consequences.
Someone's time, there will benegative consequences, and so
having a contract is just aneasy way to get that out in the
open.
Because the petition if I pullthat up, you know one of the
first things no, adobe, I don'twant to try that or learn that,
thank you.
One of the first things that itmentions is the idea of no, I'm
(13:52):
sorry, it's not the first thing, it's actually number five
Compensation and supervisioncost guidelines.
This is the request Add a newsubsection to 68193 requiring
that supervision fees bereasonable, clearly disclosed
(14:13):
and agreed upon in writingbefore supervision begins.
Y'all that's contract right.
I mean, if we have supervisorsout there that are not
disclosing fees or they'resaying one thing when they sign
the paperwork and then they'rechanging it when something else
happens, right that's.
I just don't see why we need mysoapbox.
(14:37):
I would hate to see a ruleenacted that forces us to do
something when best practicessays this is what we should be
doing anyway.
So, making sure that you arebeing very transparent about the
compensation.
And then you know, the question, like I said, I've seen again
(14:59):
and again and again is is yoursupervisor charging more than
your hourly rate?
So that's the supervisee's ratethat they charge for clients or
the rate that they're gettingpaid by their agency?
And if so, it's always tiedinto this.
What are you getting Right?
(15:21):
I mean, if you are going to bean EMDR specialist and you're
going to supervise someone andat the same time, make sure that
they are EMDR certified, chargefor that, all right, that's
great, put it in your contract.
But I think what they're seeingand they're calling it
exploitation, is whensupervisees are being charged
(15:43):
double perhaps their hourly ratenot our hourly rate, but the
supervisee's hourly rate andthey're really not getting
anything for it.
So I and other supervisors, youknow, we are sort of standing on
our soapboxes going buyerbeware, buyer beware, come on,
read the contract.
(16:03):
And then it's like, oh, lots ofsupervisors aren't doing
contracts.
So I'm just like I've got apalm print right here where I
just like, oh my gosh, you know,we need to put this stuff, we
do it with our clients.
Right, it's got to be in theservice agreement.
How much are we going to charge?
You can't change anything in aservice agreement or consent for
(16:24):
treatment with your clientunless it's in writing.
That is in the rules.
So let me circle back to numberone.
Number one is failure to meetmonthly supervision minimum.
This is if the supervisee does,it doesn't say explicitly in
the rules that they lose all oftheir hours.
(16:44):
So they want that clarified.
Yeah, that's fair, I don'tblame them.
Number two they want to rulethey.
The petition says I don't wantto rule they.
The petition says I don't wantto represent that.
This represents all supervisees.
The petition says uh, requiresupervision contracts.
I don't have a problem withthat.
Um, I think it might burdenstaff if we're having to upload
(17:05):
forms and upload contracts andupdated contracts, and updated
contracts.
So I'm not sure how they woulddo that unless they, you know,
simply say it must be in thefile and then, if they pull
records, they could see thatEthical.
Number three is ethicaloversight of supervisory
(17:26):
business practices.
I don't.
I'm pretty sure in Texas theLPC board doesn't have that
authority and statute to overseeethical business.
But again, that's why peoplejoin, step it Up.
You guys are, so you're goingto be ethical, we're going to
make sure you're ethical.
And then number four numberfour I need to do a whole
(17:48):
webinar on.
So here's the thing Supervision, supervisor, termination
protocols.
Did y'all know that supervisorshave no mechanism to terminate
their supervisee?
Like, we talked about that alittle bit last time, but I'm
(18:09):
still getting this.
What, what?
Even you know, in the TexasSupervisor Coalition Facebook
group had one of our attorneys,who's also a supervisor, say
what you know.
But it's true, you are thesupervisor of record Right until
that supervisee upgrades orgets another supervisor.
(18:30):
I mean, they can backdate it.
They meaning staff.
Once they get the paperwork.
They can backdate it to the dayyou say we are through.
But in that meantime, thatlimbo, no man's land, you are
the supervisor, and so that'sone of the things you know.
Even I've probably confusedfolks in my course, because if a
(18:53):
supervisee does somethingegregious, I preach hey, that's
the one time you don't need aremediation plan, get them off
your roster, you know, file thecomplaint, et cetera, et cetera,
etc, etc.
(19:16):
And now, as I've learned more,I'm seeing wait, you're still
the supervisor of record, andnow you've got somebody who
actually, you know, does a poorjob.
It's probably important thatyou do really extra oversight on
this person.
Until the complaint goesthrough, the supervision is
backdated, terminated, right,all of these things.
So I say all of that becausenumber four asks that the
(19:41):
supervisor not be able toterminate the supervisee
relationship.
I'm going to read it.
I'm saying it wrong.
Supervisor terminates asupervisory relationship.
They must provide at least 30days written notice to the LPC
associate and the board.
That's what they're requesting.
The notice must include theeffective date, the general
reason for termination andconfirmation that final logs
(20:02):
will be submitted.
Failure to provide timelynotice or documentation may be
grounds for disciplinary review.
So the problem with that isthere's already a rule.
We must turn it in allpaperwork within 30 days of
terminating the superviseerelationship.
(20:22):
But then we have the sameproblem.
We can't really terminate it.
We can say and my example inthe Facebook group is like it's
like telling your spouse Idivorce you, right, I divorce
you.
Well, it's not official untilthe powers that be say it's
official.
We're kind of in the samepredicament.
So right now the superviseeshold all the power because if
(20:45):
they want to fire us, they cango, have you know and form
relationships with anothersupervisor, fill out the
paperwork, turn in the paperworkthey don't even have to tell us
and then show up to supervisionand say hey, by the way,
instead of that completing thatremediation plan, I'm firing you
.
So see, ya, right, and there'sno rule that says that you get
(21:08):
to communicate with that newsupervisor.
So this one I think well, thereare a couple of them.
I don't think that one has awhole lot of merit.
So you know, back to the titleof this training and I want to
open it up to questions for youguys.
But when you're preventing atoxic climate, it really does
(21:33):
start with that contractdefining how you will charge
them, how often, what comes withit and when meetings happen.
And that includes you notshowing up for supervision,
right?
If you're not able to makesupervision, are you making sure
that that supervisee now getstheir four hours of supervision?
(21:56):
If you're in Texas, lpc weeklysupervision, if you're an LMFT
or other disciplines are youdoing your due diligence?
Or are you saying, hey, youknow, I just don't have time to
make it up, well, that's on you,and that not only will create a
toxic climate, but that'sactually reportable, right?
Your supervisee can report youfor not being available for
(22:19):
supervision.
So define the time, define themoney and then define the what
ifs.
Well, what if your superviseehas a job change and they can't
come Tuesday at 4 30 anymore,right?
Or what if you can't?
What if your situation changesand you can't do supervision at
(22:40):
four o'clock on Wednesdays?
So the late cancel no-showpolicy that's one of the things
we really pound into folks'heads in the K-Walker training.
We want you to have alate-cancel-no-show policy.
And then the creme de la creme,the number one thing that I see
(23:04):
folks complained about is whenyou slap somebody with a
remediation plan or you do sayI'm firing you after 12 and a
half months of everything beingpeachy.
Right, if your LPC associate ison track to finish at 18 months
(23:25):
and at 16 and a half monthsyou're saying you know what?
I'm going to give you aremediation plan because you're
being a little bit, you got alittle bit of an attitude.
Come on, if you took my course,you know.
Level two behavior is that pushand pull.
They are developing their ownstyle, they are trying to
(23:45):
establish themselves in theircounselor identity.
So, again, how do you define?
Well, they're just annoying.
Well, you pull out your LAMB-E,ccsr, your evaluation
instrument, you find thecriteria that matches that you
make sure, and I'm sorry, ifyou're at 16 and a half months
and you have never given anevaluation, then before you fire
(24:09):
that supervisee or slap themwith a remediation plan out of
the blue, I would give them anevaluation and start the
conversation.
So hopefully that addresseseverything, but I want to answer
your questions, so I'm going toopen it up.
I'll go ahead and hit record.
No, I'll turn off record, okay.
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