September 16, 2025 • 45 mins
What happens when forgiveness isn't just a nice idea but your only path forward? In this raw and deeply moving conclusion to our two-part series on forgiveness, Jess bravely continues sharing her journey after losing her husband TJ in a tragic accident.
The story takes us through the impossible decision Jess faced: whether to press charges against the man responsible—someone whose wife worked alongside her at their small school. For months, she navigated the excruciating reality of daily interactions with this family while processing her own grief and raising two young children alone. "I was hurting, I was mad, it was all the things," she admits, revealing the authentic struggle behind her eventual choice to forgive.
Perhaps most powerful is Jess's vulnerability about the criticism she received for her decision. "Family told me that," she reveals when discussing how some suggested her forgiveness somehow disrespected her late husband's memory. Yet through tears, she shares a breakthrough moment, saying aloud for the first time: "He'll be proud of me. He'll be proud of how I raised Thomas and Aaron by myself. He'll be proud of who I chose to help me with that."
The conversation doesn't shy away from difficult topics—like the "honor walk" for organ donation that Jess describes as "awful" in the moment, or how years later, certain emotions still surface unexpectedly. But through it all emerges a powerful truth: forgiveness doesn't eliminate hurt or erase trauma; it simply prevents that pain from defining you.
"When you choose to forgive, that doesn't mean you turn off the hurt," Jess explains. "You're choosing not to let it weigh you down and hold you down. That is the difference."
Whether you're facing life-altering tragedy or everyday frustrations, this episode offers a transformative perspective on how forgiveness creates freedom—not for others, but for yourself. Join us for this heartfelt conversation that might just change how you view the challenges in your own life.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey guys, what's up?
I'm Greg.
I hope you guys are ready tounpack and get into some good
conversations today.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
And I'm Jess, and this is our podcast Baggage
Claim.
Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
What's up guys?
Welcome back to Baggage Claim.
This is a place where we'recreating community and some
conversations around marriage,life and everything in between
we're.
This is episode two, part two.
Part two yeah, not episode, butpart two, on forgiveness If you
haven't listened to the firstone hit pause.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
You probably should.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
That would be episode 28.
Yeah, hit pause, go back,listen to the first one on
forgiveness and then come backand join us, because we're going
to jump right back into thestory.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yeah, I was telling a big part of my story and how
I've experienced forgiveness.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yeah, and so we're going to jump back into that and
so, and at that point in thestory, when we kind of left off
the last episode, you're in thejudge's chambers you had decided
to say I'm I'm not pressingcharges, I'm not seeking
anything toward the family.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
So you've had eight months leading up to this yeah,
moment, six or eight months now,as I said, some of my memories
are fuzzy, but had been somemonths it was six, six or
eight-ish to wait for the statepatrol investigation of the
accident.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
And so you had had.
You said you knew the family.
I did.
You knew them.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
I worked with the wife at our school and it was
her husband who was the one whoactually accidentally hit TJ.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
And so had you.
What was your interaction withthem, or had you had any
interaction with them?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yeah, for the last six to eight months.
Well, she and I continued towork together, right, it was
weird, it was really awkwardbecause we were a small school
at that point.
All of us knew one another.
It was a very much likeclose-knit community, and so she
(02:13):
was the school nurse and Iworked in the library.
So most of the studentsfrequented you know, both of our
areas and the families I meanall it was a close-knit
community for a school becausewe were new and so, yeah, we did
the best we could.
She took some time off.
(02:36):
I only took a couple weeks offfrom work because I knew that
the best thing for my kids wasto get back to kind of a routine
.
But I had the blessing of beingin the library, so if one of us
(02:56):
or all three of us were havinga hard day, we could go home.
And so, yeah, we interacteddaily and we saw each other's
kids daily and that kind ofthing.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
So, yeah, so for them .
For eight months they had noidea if charges were being
pressed or anything Did theyhave a lawyer?
Were they seeking anything likefrom that point?
Do you know that?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
I honestly don't know .
I'm sure that from like a Iguess it was their auto
insurance would have beeninvolved.
I'm sure that there wasprobably some legal
representation that way forprotection for them.
But I don't know.
I didn't interact with that atall.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Okay.
So you're in the judge'schambers.
You tell them you're notseeking charges.
So what happens?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
What happens then?
Yeah, so what's?
Speaker 1 (03:54):
next you said that you cause.
You told us that wasn't the endof the story.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
No, yeah, um, I honestly I don't.
I probably had to sign somesort of affidavit there like a
legal situation saying thatthat's my decision, and maybe
the family heard it from someattorney situation.
(04:19):
But I remember having aconversation with the wife
telling her no, I've decided notto press charges.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Okay, so you can't just throw that out and say we
had a conversation and I saidyou got to give us a little bit
more detail.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Well, I mean, both parties knew myself and the
family of the man that hit TJ.
We knew that that was the dayof the meeting that I was
meeting with the DA and thejudge and all those folks, so
(04:58):
they knew that was kind of likethe day.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
So leading up to that , did they ever like?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
She did.
Yeah, she asked me multipletimes and I just kept saying I'm
not ready to talk about itbecause I just knew that that
was not.
There was no need for her toknow my thought process, because
my thoughts would go from upuntil I was ready to make my
decision.
My thoughts would go from, ofcourse he needs jail time
(05:33):
because this is what happened tomy family, to no, he does not,
because it was an accident.
I mean, and according to, youknow what minute it was and what
emotion I was feeling at thatpoint I had not made the choice
yet to forgive to and decide tomove forward.
So I just kept telling her I'mnot ready to talk about it yet.
(05:54):
I'm not ready to talk about ityet.
And there were a time or twowhere it just kind of was like
you got to stop and I had, youknow, friends with the
administration and that kind ofthing, and they would you know
friends with the administrationand that kind of thing, and they
would you know kind of step in.
It was like you need to giveJess a minute, you know, don't.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah, Cause you can.
I mean looking back on site.
Yeah, Like I don't know.
I don't want to diminish eitherside of this, but like, at the
same time too, she's workingwith the lady who's kind of
deciding the fate of her familyand her husband and what's going
to happen from them.
So, for six to eight months ofanxiety, of knowing is he going
(06:32):
to go away to jail for years?
Am I going to be a single mom?
Am I going to be doing this onmy own?
There's all that.
And then, on your side, there'sthe hurt, there's the
frustration, the pain of sayingI am a single mom.
I am doing this on my own nowand I don't get a choice, so
there's got to be that.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
I mean you're wrestling all these emotions and
feelings and I had.
You know there was familymembers and friends and outside
folks, you know, trying to givetheir opinion and what they
thought was right and, you know,not everybody agreed with my
choice in the end.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Why do you think that was?
Why do you think?
Speaker 2 (07:14):
I think human nature is.
You hurt me, I want to hurt you.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Yeah, that's about right yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
You know, but I just, and it's not.
I know that my choices are notnormal, quote, unquote, normal
or what most folks would do,because when I looked at my two
little kids, I'm going to cry.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
It's okay.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
When I looked at my little kids who were suffering
and hurting and trying tounderstand what was happening, I
couldn't really stomach thethought of me making the choice
to make somebody else's childrenfeel that way Because it was an
(08:12):
accident.
Once I knew 100% it was anaccident.
I just I couldn't.
I couldn't stomach just beingthe one to be to make that
choice.
You know you hurt me, I'm goingto hurt you was not even a, it
(08:37):
wasn't a consideration.
Wow, wow.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
I know that's not normal, but that's a it's a huge
thing, though, I think, if weall kind of had enough time to
just stop and take a breath andand have that idea maybe and in
the long run I mean 15 yearslater.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
In the long run, I'm grateful that I had to wait for
that report so have a knee jerkbecause you feel like if you had
to decide immediate.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Yeah, it would have been a different response.
Literally immediate.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
It would have been a whole different response because
, you know, I was hurting, I wasmad, it was all the things.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Well, I'm sure you're still even fighting that eight
months later.
You're fighting that yearslater probably.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Not now, no, but it took a lot of years to kind of
work through that.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Because, I mean, some people have the idea too, like
if you don't press charges,you're almost disrespecting TJ,
or that's not fair to him.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Oh, I heard that.
People told me that.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Oh really.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Oh yeah, wow, Family told me that.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Yeah, and I'm like well, if that's what you thought
, then number one, you didn'tknow TJ Because he would have
never.
He would have never wanted meto do that.
And also, you don't know meBecause that's not the kind of
person I am.
I've never been that kind ofperson.
(10:04):
I've never been anintentionally ugly person, ever.
I mean, even now I had peopletell me that.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Wow.
It's crazy because we I'venever walked that journey.
I've never walked that.
For me to tell you what youshould and shouldn't do is
ridiculous to me.
It seems crazy that peoplewould do that, but I know people
.
They make decisions that arehurt, that are always good ones
and healthy ones.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
And this part of the story is most of the time this
is the hard part for me to share.
I mean is most of the time,this is the hard part for me to
share?
I mean there's a lot of hardparts, but I don't want it to
come across as I'm such a goodperson because this or that, or
(10:57):
I'm the nicest person because ofthis, but that was hard.
That was hard to get to thatpoint and it felt like a
relatively fast timeline to getto that point.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Yeah, yeah, six to eight months to walk through.
You walk through and be therein eight months.
Yeah, seems extremely fast.
Yeah, seems extremely fast.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
I mean to go from I couldn't.
I was not the person, Icouldn't verbalize the words to
tell my kids that their dad died.
I couldn't say it.
I had to get somebody else totell them.
Two be the one to say out loudI'm not pressing charges, it was
(11:45):
an accident.
That is in just a handful ofmonths.
That's huge.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Yeah, it is yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
But I mean, that wasn't my strength, that was my
faith that I drew on.
It's wild bringing up theseemotions this many years.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
It's okay.
It's okay though.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
I know, but it's just wild.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yeah, Because we talked about we have.
Several times over the last 13years we've been married.
I'm 13 in the next month.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, it's crazy.
Yeah, the next month.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
I've asked you lots of questions about TJ.
I've asked you lots ofquestions Mm-hmm.
It's, I think, just empathy forwhat you went through and who
you are now.
And to see who you are now andhow you see life is beautiful.
It shows the power offorgiveness, yeah, in such a
(12:48):
beautiful way.
It's the.
It is that beautiful picture ofhow God forgives us for things
in our life.
It's like you forgave him whennot to be mean, but he didn't
deserve it.
Yeah, but you gave it anyway,and how that freed you to.
I'm not saying like look whereyou're at now, but I know it's
like look what awaited you onthe other side.
(13:11):
I remember one night I camethis is one that just so you'd
went to bed early and I hadstayed up late and I was
watching TikTok.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Surprise, surprise, I know it's a typical night
around here.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
I was probably watching YouTube golf and got
distracted by TikTok.
And then I go across this honorwalk and if you don't know what
that is, it's when someone isan organ donor at the hospital
and these people line thehallways and they're wheeling
this person through the hallwayand everybody's clapping and
(13:47):
cheering and some people are,and these people had lined the
hallways and they're wheelingthis person through the hallway
and everybody's clapping andcheering and some people are in
the families walking with them.
Yeah, and man, I am justwrecked, like I'm emotionally
wrecked, watching this TikTok.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
And then I remember I think it was I told you, I
think it was the next morning, Iwas just like I saw this video
and I told you and think it wasthe next morning, I was just
like I saw this this video and Itold you and you go, yeah, I
did that and my immediately Ifelt this just brokenness, for I
was like I never, I never eventhought of that, I never even
(14:19):
thought that you that'ssomething you had walked through
something emotionally, becausejust me watching I didn't even
know the guy that they'rewilling down the hospital and
I'm an emotional wreck watchingit.
It's, it's horrible.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
And when you did that , I was like well, it's horrible
and it's beautiful at the sametime okay, do you?
Speaker 1 (14:38):
yeah, can we?
Can we?
Can you want to share that?
I mean, that's not to ask, butI but I feel like it's almost
because there's some things toofor me like I love you and I
love Thomas and I love Aaron,just like they're my own.
I do I treat them the same wayI do Callie and Cody.
I love them the same way theyare.
(14:59):
And I also, too, want to honorTJ, and I know TJ would be so
proud of who they are.
He would, but at the same timeit's like I want to know his
stories, I want to honor him.
I want him to be honored inwhat his legacy of Thomas and
Erin.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Gracious.
This is emotional conversationand that's one of the things.
That's—you and I have talkedabout it.
It's such a delicate balancebetween like—good, gracious.
Let me get control of myself.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
It's okay.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
It's such a delicate balance of honoring Him and
being proud of what— we had andour babies and also being proud
of what you and I have.
I don't want either thing to bediminished in any way.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
And we've worked really hard not to do that.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
We have worked really hard and you have been very
helpful even in the first.
You know very helpful even inthe first.
You know five or six years ofour marriage, helping me know
that it's okay to talk about TJ,and so we have worked on that
(16:24):
really hard because I mean it'simportant for Thomas and Aaron.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Because, good gracious, would he be proud of
those kids.
So, the honor walk thingBecause of the nature of TJ's
accident, there was only twoorgans that were salvageable His
(16:52):
liver and, I'm pretty sure, hisheart I'm not 100% so when the
accident happened, because hewas an organ donor on his
license, they kept his body onlife support until there's a
company I don't know for sure,there's still a thing but at
(17:14):
that point there was a companycalled LifeLink.
Yes, and they would literallylink lives with the organs and
(17:38):
the recipients that needed themon the donor transplant list.
And so, um, the, the, the folksthat were representing their
company at that time wereabsolutely fantastic.
It was a young man and a younglady and they were precious and
they were so well-trained and,um, it was actually me and TJ's
mom.
We were in this little roomtogether and we met with them
and I don't remember all of theconversation other than whatever
(18:02):
was salvageable is what theywould use and, like I said, I
know it was two organs for sure.
And so, when the donation dayis what they call, it came
around I don't know, I don'tremember how many days it was
after and so, yeah, that wholewalk of honor, or I mean you
(18:30):
know they roll the bed orwhatever.
It's a real thing, it's a realemotional thing.
It was awful, just to be honest,with you as the widow.
It was awful.
I did not find joy in that.
I didn't find joy that therewas somebody that was going to
(18:52):
be able to.
Their lives would improve forthat moment just because of how
I got to where that was.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Well, that's an honest.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
I mean, that's an honest, real feeling for where
you were at.
Yeah, but has that changed bynow, though no, no, you're still
not happy that his organshelped somebody.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Okay.
So my initial response of nowas I got a letter like a year
after from a recipient'sdaughter Vivian's daughter,
(19:40):
grown up of how her father couldbe a part of a grandchild's
life and this, and that it'ssuch a strange feeling I mean I
guess it was probably thedefinition of the word
bittersweet.
Yeah, I'm happy for them, butI'm bitter for myself.
I was still bitter then.
Yeah, that was hard.
(20:00):
Yeah, that was real hard.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Oh well, yeah, what's crazy?
How someone's?
It's this crazy thing in lifethat someone's death actually
gives life to someone else.
And then us as humans whenwe're on the receiving end of
that, it's hard for us to seethe person, the sacrifice that
it took for us to get that life,I mean I still have the letter
(20:28):
somewhere in the keepsake box ofTJ's stuff that we have.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Yeah, um, that was, that was hard and there's been a
lot of hard parts of that wholejourney.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
A lot of hard parts, um, and that was a biggie, that
was a big one well, yeah, sothere's so much here that and I
again, this is a lot for you toshare and I appreciate you
because I know it is veryemotional and we're pretty laid
(21:02):
back.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Happy-go-lucky people we are so, believe it or not,
if you're listening to this.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
So, but also too.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
And this is hard for me to share.
Not, I mean it's hard to rehashsome things, yes, but it's hard
for me to share in a way thatfeels, I mean, I think
transparent is pretty much how Idescribe it, but I don't ever
(21:33):
want it to come across of I'mbetter than you because this is
how I dealt with it.
That's very important to me.
I don't.
I would never wish my journeyon anybody.
I never would.
I mean this.
Many years later, there's stillthings that come up.
(21:55):
I mean when I mean as much aswe love Lucy Grace, our
grandbaby, she's a year old, awhole year old now.
That's our grandbaby.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
And then there's still folks that are like we'll
bring up.
Well, bring up.
Oh, tj would be so happy toknow he has a grandchild, or you
know, are there any Petillofeatures that you see?
Or well, I shouldn't, maybeshouldn't have said their last
name, but are there any?
Speaker 1 (22:24):
I think people can figure this out, are there?
Speaker 2 (22:28):
any family traits that you see in her and things
like that.
It still comes up.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yeah, and that's not a bad thing, but it's also too.
I think.
Here's the part where and youand I have talked about this, so
I'm going to say it because youdon't have to say it, and you
can disagree with me on themicrophones, because I know how
you really feel.
But, like when you're at thiscrossroads, you're at this place
and you get to choose toforgive or you choose not to
(23:01):
forgive.
Yes, it's almost like as crazyas it is.
You pick a side.
You either become a victim oryou become a victor.
Yes is you pick a side, youeither become a victim or you
become a victor, yes, and thenif you're not careful and you
don't deal with that, thatbecomes your identity of who you
are and you're toting aroundthis forgiveness weight and that
(23:23):
becomes like who you are.
That's your identity, like youcould have been just the widower
, who is a horrible situationwhat you did, and it doesn't the
I know, because some peoplewould say the fact you moved on
was almost like, well, youdisgraced TJ oh, people did say
that to me because I I met TJ acouple of times, which is crazy.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
It is crazy uh, because he was a youth pastor
while I was a youth pastor.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Yeah, really cool dude.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
And I would know, probably at the same sense he'd
be like that's not what he wouldsay at all.
I know that's what he would saybecause or not say, or
whichever yes, because he losthis father at a very young age.
He was 15 when his father dieddied.
(24:18):
So we literally had thisconversation multiple times of
what he wanted for me.
If that happened to him, and soI know without a doubt that he
will be proud of me, and that'shard to say why, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
He'll be very proud of you, he'll be proud of me,
the way you processed and movedthrough, because I mean, this
was a high school sweetheart youwere married to for—.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
I'll say it's hard to say because I've never said it
out loud before.
He'll be proud of me.
Yeah.
He'll be proud of how I've doneeverything.
He'll be proud of how I raisedThomas and Aaron by myself.
He'll be proud of who I choseto help me with that.
That's probably the first timeI've said that out loud and
(25:04):
he'll be proud of me.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
And I know that.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Yeah, and I know that .
Yeah, I think people who knowyou, jess, who have met you,
would just say you have thisenergy about you that is so
attractive, in the sense ofeverybody likes you, like
everybody just wants to bearound.
They enjoy being around you.
(25:29):
They enjoy and I 100% believeMaybe not everybody, 99% of the
people, 99.8% of the people,because there's always someone
but I think it all goes back tothis because it shows your heart
.
This is who Jess really is.
This is Jess's heart, and theheart of it is forgiveness and
(25:51):
love and forgiveness and all ofthat.
That's what I was about to say.
This is Jess's heart and theheart of it is forgiveness and
love and forgiveness.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
That's what I was about to say.
This is not a woo.
Jess is the greatest personever.
No, I made a really hard choicea long time ago to forgive, and
that's, just from that point on, is how I've lived my life, and
it makes little things seem soinsignificant, I mean.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Well you talked about .
We're talking about forgivenessin the sense of like this is a
Huge, huge, huge thing.
Yeah, it's like man, I hopethere's a if they're out there
and you're listening to this andyou've walked through this.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
I am so sorry and please message me so I can talk
to you.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Yeah, but in the same sense, it just goes to show you
, no matter what you walkthrough, there's—forgiveness is
always a choice, yeah, and it'salways something you get to
choose to move forward, and ifyou do, there's a lot of freedom
on the other side of thatthere's a lot of freedom, and I
know when I talk about you, Italk about you like you are
(26:57):
literally the greatest thing inthe whole wide world.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
You do.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
You are like the ultimate hype man for me and I
appreciate that.
Yeah, I do.
It really helps me.
You hung the moon in my eyes,yeah, which is not really true,
but I appreciate you feelingthat way.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
But that I don't want for people to have to walk
through something so just such atragedy to be able to
experience the freedom of whatforgiveness feels like.
It should not take a hugelife-altering event for you to
realize, if your husband leavesa mess or if your kids don't put
their shoes where they go orlike little things like that, to
(27:52):
not seem like such a big dealbecause they're not Like.
After, after my whole journeyand once I decided to forgive
and I was just, I had the, the,the opportunity to, to, to go
through counseling and time topass, and I would hear again
(28:17):
this is not.
I'm so much better than you.
I would hear women complainabout their husbands.
Well, he can't even put hisunderwear in the hamper, or he
leaves dirty socks everywhere,or there's empty water bottles
all over the house.
I would get so angry and I wasugly to lots of people and I did
apologize to lots of people,but I'm like at least he's there
(28:38):
to do it.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Because, in the grand scheme of things, you can put
the water bottle in the trashcan for him, or you can pick up
the dirty clothes and toss themin the hamper for him, and it
doesn't have to be a thing.
Everything is not a thingBecause at least he's there to
do it Well that's a differentperspective.
(29:02):
That's my perspective.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
I don't like leaving my clothes laying around.
I know you don't, I do leave.
There are certain things that Iknow probably would drive
normal people crazy, that youdon't like Again in the first
episode or one or two episodesago.
I still have my stuff from thegolf trip sitting on the
bathroom counter.
I'm just using my bathroom bagI'm just working out of it
(29:26):
instead of putting it into thedrawer.
It's been days, yeah, and soit's like it's okay with me, I'm
okay with it and you're kind oflike okay with it too.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Like you could give me a hard time about it.
I could.
I'm going to cry, but you camehome.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
You're here.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Yeah, and that may seem as crazy as it is, that may
seem very trivial and silly topeople.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
But it's not to me.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah, until you experience the person you love
doesn't come home.
Yeah, and you get that knock oryou get the phone call.
Yeah, and that's what we'vealways said, like that's why in
the morning I get up and I makecoffee for you in the morning,
yeah, and I give you a hug and Ikiss you in the morning,
because I'm like who knows ifthat's the last time we ever see
(30:10):
each other.
Yeah, we might not come home,yeah, if we get a knock or we
get a phone call and everythingchanges.
And so it's like sometimes youcan look at life that way and it
can be daunting.
It also can be very refreshing,yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
All right, so I got a question for you.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Is it going to make me cry?
Speaker 3 (30:26):
I hope not.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
I'm not like trying to make you cry, I'm trying to
get control of myself.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
In this time frame, however long it was.
You know, we're talking aboutforgiveness.
We're talking about thestruggles that come along with
that, the hurts and the scarsand the pain that comes through
that.
And this might be amulti-tiered question, but we
have already covered some of it,such as, you know, forgiving
(30:54):
the, the man who ran over TJ,having those, those wrestlings
and those struggles was itsomething that you were able to
forgive immediately.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
No.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
So it took time, and I say that because I've
experienced things, not whatyou've been through.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
No, but you've experienced hurt.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
And it's not easy to forgive right away.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
No, it's not.
No, I became a Christian when Iwas 12.
But I grew up in church and Igrew up, I mean, just you know,
kind of right.
I wasn't necessarily raised ina Christian household, but I was
raised in a Christian family,and so that was just kind of a
way of life and so it wasn'tlike this big idea that I had
(31:43):
nothing, no knowledge of, and soI knew what forgiveness meant
uh, no knowledge of, and so Iknew what forgiveness meant, Um,
but it's interesting because,although my relationship with,
with Jesus is a personal thing,um, it's, it's more abstract, I
(32:03):
guess, because it was not, it'snot a physical in my face.
And so when it became a physicalin my face, um, a choice
whether or not to forgive and Idon't even know well, I do know
it was it was God putting thosethoughts in me of just to
(32:26):
forgive to be able to moveforward.
But my counselor also, you know, helped me with that too.
I just I knew within my myselfand my heart that I had to be
able to reach that point offorgiveness to be able to keep
moving forward.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Yeah.
So question, and this may bejust at least the perspective
I'm seeing this story unfold,right, Because even I'm learning
things I've never known aboutyou.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
It's not something we talk about often while we're
hanging out.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
No, yeah for sure, in those seasons of life where you
couldn't find yourselfforgiving, even though you knew
God was calling you towards that, how would maybe one?
What did you do that helpedlead you to forgiveness?
Right but secondly, there's alot of people who do have a hard
(33:19):
time forgiving.
I've had hard times forgivingeven when I know it's what I
should do.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Right.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Whether it be something as traumatic as what
you've been through right, orwhether it be something where
someone's not putting theirdirty laundry in a basket or
leaving water bottles around.
How would you walk someonethrough helping find forgiveness
in their own heart to share?
Speaker 2 (33:45):
so for me, my grandmother.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
I'm sorry, it's okay, oh, nanny.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Oh, nanny, my grandmother.
We lost almost.
This has been two and a halfyears ago, right, yeah.
So, nanny, good gracious, I'mgetting control of myself.
(34:16):
Nanny was the one who dailywalked.
I say not just Nanny, myparents did too, and TJ's mother
, nanny, was retired already atthat point.
And so Nanny walked with me dayby day.
(34:38):
She was also a really biginfluence of my Christian walk
and so she was just grit, and sowhen it was hard, she would
help me.
Jessie, what are you going tochoose?
You know, what are we going tochoose today?
(34:58):
We're going, you know, shewould literally make me say out
loud what am I choosing today?
What are we doing today?
What you know, what choices arewe going to make today?
So she was a really biginfluence on, she's a huge
influence in who I am in general.
But then I always went back tomy faith of although I became a
(35:26):
Christian at such a young ageand I didn't experience that
whole gutter to glory testimonyI was just like, if God can
forgive humanity for all ofthese awful things, including me
, why can I not forgive too?
Like, why can I not forgive too?
(35:50):
And that's not a naturalthought process to have, but
that's the thought process I had.
I had to just keep choosing itover and over and over again,
and it was not a natural choice.
I was mad and I stayed mad for along time, several months and I
feel like that was rightfullyso.
(36:11):
I feel like it was righteousanger at that point.
But I just had to keep choosingand I had little faces looking
at me and watching the choicesthat I was making.
Erin Grace was a little bittyshe had just turned six, not too
long before that and so.
But Thomas was older and Ithink that mine and your
(36:36):
relationship with Thomasreflects a lot of what he saw me
go through.
And just, I just had to keepchoosing this, choosing to
forgive, and choosing what Ifelt like was right, even though
it didn't feel good.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
That's good.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
And that's a big part of it.
You have to choose what's right, even when it hurts, and it was
a lot of hurt.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
And that's okay.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
So I think choosing forgiveness and choosing to move
past that hurt is those thingsthat keep you from being the
victim and allow you to be.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Oh, I refuse to be a victim right away.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Yeah, because there's a lot of people who walk
through what you walk throughand they're stuck there.
They are and it's just, it'sreally, really sad.
Yeah, because it's an easy, Imean.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
That's the easy choice.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
I'm not saying it's easy.
By any means Hear me out.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
I'm saying when you get stuck there if you stay
there long enough, you're goingto get stuck, and then in my
opinion, on the route I chose,getting stuck and letting
yourself be the victim is theeasy choice, because you just
sit in it.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
And so that goes with whether it's a big thing or
it's a small thing.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Like you can choose to be the victim and say I
should do this or I should getthis or I should get that,
Because usually when forgivenesscomes in, there's I in front of
those statements instead ofthere's a little different.
Yeah, it is so it's a littledifferent, yeah it is.
So it's I and me.
But wow, okay, so man, sounpack, let's talk about it,
(38:18):
let's get, let's give someunpack.
Oh, my To, I mean, we've been.
This is a wrap up, the secondepisode, yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Of two very heavy and emotional episodes.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
And talk about some things to unpack.
The biggest thing for me wouldbe I don't know.
The first thing I think of, thefirst thing comes to mind, is
hey, forgiveness is a decisionfor you.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
Like you get to make that decision.
Yeah, whether it be big orsmall, forgiveness is a choice.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Yeah, and so whoever it is that's hurt you, or
whatever it is that they've wentthrough, if it's this man, the
process start, the process ofhealing, and the healing and the
forgiveness is for you, not forthem, that's true.
And so start to lay this down.
They did an episode.
Good Lord, I see my life inepisodes now, since we're doing
(39:07):
a podcast.
But okay, brian at church did asermon and we talked about
forgiveness.
He gave some good points onthings.
Do you want to read throughsome of those?
Speaker 2 (39:20):
I do, just really quick.
I do Because you took notes.
I did and I'm holding my churchnotes in my hand.
Thank you, brian Hall, holdingmy church notes in my hand.
Thank you, brian Hall.
Forgiveness is a choice, andwe've talked about that a lot.
And it's a hard choice becauseforgiveness is limitless too.
You can't set boundaries onyour forgiveness.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
No, so true.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
I probably, if I had different thoughts at that point
in my life, I would have wantedto set boundaries, and
forgiveness also is withoutattachments.
I will forgive you if no.
That's not how forgivenessworks.
When you forgive, you give upthe right to get even, and I did
that.
And again, I am not beingboastful, Please hear the
(40:10):
humility in this and I toldproducer Michael and I told Greg
I have a hard time sharingparts of this because I don't
want it ever to come off with.
I'm so much better because thisthis has been hard, hard, hard.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
I think that's the thought in your head.
It doesn't come off that way,so let's move on.
So you, that's the thought inyour head.
It doesn't come off that way,okay, well, so let's move on.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
So you give up the right to give, even, and when
you choose to forgive, thatdoesn't mean you turn off the
hurt.
No, I mean with the emotionthat's coming out of me.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
Fifteen years later.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
Yeah, fifteen years later, and the emotion that's
coming from Greg.
He didn't witness me walkingthrough that, but we've talked
about it enough to where hefeels that hurt with me.
Just because you choose toforgive does not eliminate the
hurt and it does not eliminatethe experience that you went
(41:04):
through.
A lot of people need to hearthat too that you went through.
A lot of people need to hearthat too.
When you choose to forgive,that doesn't mean you're
choosing to forget.
No, or it eliminates that thathappened or the event or the
trauma wasn't real.
That is not the same thing.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
You're choosing not to let it weigh you down and
hold you down.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
That is the difference.
Yeah, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
Wow, okay, that is the difference.
Yeah, yes, yeah, wow, okay,that's some good, some good
things from just preach Jess.
Come on now.
I mean some good things fromJess, my testimony.
So let's leave it up to me tojust say let's lighten the mood
and let's do something fun.
Can we do a Silly questions?
(41:49):
Random question time.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Question time.
Question time.
I don't have a question rightnow.
I'm still trying to get myselftogether.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
I got a question Would you rather have the
superpower of flight or thesuperpower of super strength,
one or the?
Either You're not Superman.
You're either like MrIncredible or you can fly.
I don't know of any superherothat just flies Incredible, mr
Incredible.
(42:20):
Don't tell me you've never seenMr Incredible.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
Yeah, like the Incredibles, he's just strong.
That's his only power.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Yeah, I've seen it.
Come on, man.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
In first grade we have morning meetings and this
is one of the questions that Icome up with for morning
meetings.
I love this.
I would choose.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
You're scared of heights.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
I would choose to be strong.
Speaker 3 (42:42):
Yeah, but if you could fly you'd get over that
fear of heights quickly.
She's not even flying in aplane?
Speaker 2 (42:47):
No, I would.
I would fly because I thinkit's the coolest thing that
would be.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
So dope, yeah, just to be able to man the wind in
your face and like, just thatwould scare the crap out of me.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
I would choose to be super strong, because flying is.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
I would like fly and scare the crap out of people.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
Flying is scary.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
Okay, I have a question.
Okay, as a couple, do you fartin front of each other?
Do you think it's funny?
Speaker 2 (43:15):
No, we don't.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
No, not do you think farts are funny?
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Yes, yes, they're funny.
They are funny.
You don't think farts are funny.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
Babe, we don't fart in front of each other.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
I know, but that doesn't mean you don't think
they're funny, like as Babe, wedon't fart in front of each
other, I know, but that doesn'tmean you don't think they're
funny, like as you get the otherday I was going to get up, or
something you did.
I was like oh, I snuck out yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
But every time that happens we don't laugh.
You immediately apologize.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
I'm sorry, I don't know why we don't.
We've just never done that.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
We haven't but my firsties.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
But if it happened, at a guy's night, we would rate
it.
Oh yeah, we would.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Yeah, but my firsties if they toot on the carpet,
like the little area where wemeet to learn, and they make a
big deal about it and I'm likestop, Everybody farts, I fart,
you fart, Everybody farts.
And that's like theconversation I have with my
six-year-olds, but at home wedon't in front of each other I
(44:11):
know which is really weird.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
It is weird, it's really weird.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
We never have so in 13 years, you have never once
passed gas in front of eachother.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Yeah, I remember that really embarrassing story.
I told you where I fartedbecause I was falling and about
knocked myself out because I'dhurt my back and my pants were
half down the honeymoon fartheard around the world.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
I don't remember this .
Yeah, I farted and fell in thebathroom halfway in the bathroom
and out of my pants, I rememberthat.
Yeah, yeah yeah, that washorribly embarrassing.
Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
I've only passed guys in front of you a few times in
all the years.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
Yeah, you do it in your sleep, though sometimes
it's hilarious.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Everybody does, everybody farts back.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
All right.
Well, thank you all for joiningus.
Baggage Claim.
Make sure to laugh atsomebody's fart and like,
subscribe and share our podcast.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
And there will be another episode where you get to
talk about your experience withforgiveness as well.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Yeah, it's not quite as deep as yours.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
It's not.
That's why there's like oneepisode for that one.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
Yeah, it'll be like a half episode, like a quarter of
an episode, five minutes in.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
We'll have extra questions for the next one.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
We'll have extra fart questions for that one.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
Yeah, so thanks for joining us again.
You guys are awesome.
Please keep sharing.
We'll be back again.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
Yes, thank you guys.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
Go Dogs.
Hey guys, what's up?
I'm Greg.
I hope you guys are ready tounpack and get into some good
conversations today.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
And I'm Jess, and this is our podcast Baggage
Claim.
Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
What's up guys?
Welcome back to Baggage Claim.
This is a place where we'recreating community and some
conversations around marriage,life and everything in between
we're.
This is episode two, part two.
Part two yeah, not episode, butpart two, on forgiveness If you
haven't listened to the firstone hit pause.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
You probably should.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
That would be episode 28.
Yeah, hit pause, go back,listen to the first one on
forgiveness and then come backand join us, because we're going
to jump right back into thestory.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yeah, I was telling a big part of my story and how
I've experienced forgiveness.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yeah, and so we're going to jump back into that and
so, and at that point in thestory, when we kind of left off
the last episode, you're in thejudge's chambers you had decided
to say I'm I'm not pressingcharges, I'm not seeking
anything toward the family.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
So you've had eight months leading up to this yeah,
moment, six or eight months now,as I said, some of my memories
are fuzzy, but had been somemonths it was six, six or
eight-ish to wait for the statepatrol investigation of the
accident.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
And so you had had.
You said you knew the family.
I did.
You knew them.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
I worked with the wife at our school and it was
her husband who was the one whoactually accidentally hit TJ.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
And so had you.
What was your interaction withthem, or had you had any
interaction with them?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yeah, for the last six to eight months.
Well, she and I continued towork together, right, it was
weird, it was really awkwardbecause we were a small school
at that point.
All of us knew one another.
It was a very much likeclose-knit community, and so she
(02:13):
was the school nurse and Iworked in the library.
So most of the studentsfrequented you know, both of our
areas and the families I meanall it was a close-knit
community for a school becausewe were new and so, yeah, we did
the best we could.
She took some time off.
(02:36):
I only took a couple weeks offfrom work because I knew that
the best thing for my kids wasto get back to kind of a routine
.
But I had the blessing of beingin the library, so if one of us
(02:56):
or all three of us were havinga hard day, we could go home.
And so, yeah, we interacteddaily and we saw each other's
kids daily and that kind ofthing.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
So, yeah, so for them .
For eight months they had noidea if charges were being
pressed or anything Did theyhave a lawyer?
Were they seeking anything likefrom that point?
Do you know that?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
I honestly don't know .
I'm sure that from like a Iguess it was their auto
insurance would have beeninvolved.
I'm sure that there wasprobably some legal
representation that way forprotection for them.
But I don't know.
I didn't interact with that atall.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Okay.
So you're in the judge'schambers.
You tell them you're notseeking charges.
So what happens?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
What happens then?
Yeah, so what's?
Speaker 1 (03:54):
next you said that you cause.
You told us that wasn't the endof the story.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
No, yeah, um, I honestly I don't.
I probably had to sign somesort of affidavit there like a
legal situation saying thatthat's my decision, and maybe
the family heard it from someattorney situation.
(04:19):
But I remember having aconversation with the wife
telling her no, I've decided notto press charges.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Okay, so you can't just throw that out and say we
had a conversation and I saidyou got to give us a little bit
more detail.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Well, I mean, both parties knew myself and the
family of the man that hit TJ.
We knew that that was the dayof the meeting that I was
meeting with the DA and thejudge and all those folks, so
(04:58):
they knew that was kind of likethe day.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
So leading up to that , did they ever like?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
She did.
Yeah, she asked me multipletimes and I just kept saying I'm
not ready to talk about itbecause I just knew that that
was not.
There was no need for her toknow my thought process, because
my thoughts would go from upuntil I was ready to make my
decision.
My thoughts would go from, ofcourse he needs jail time
(05:33):
because this is what happened tomy family, to no, he does not,
because it was an accident.
I mean, and according to, youknow what minute it was and what
emotion I was feeling at thatpoint I had not made the choice
yet to forgive to and decide tomove forward.
So I just kept telling her I'mnot ready to talk about it yet.
(05:54):
I'm not ready to talk about ityet.
And there were a time or twowhere it just kind of was like
you got to stop and I had, youknow, friends with the
administration and that kind ofthing, and they would you know
friends with the administrationand that kind of thing, and they
would you know kind of step in.
It was like you need to giveJess a minute, you know, don't.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah, Cause you can.
I mean looking back on site.
Yeah, Like I don't know.
I don't want to diminish eitherside of this, but like, at the
same time too, she's workingwith the lady who's kind of
deciding the fate of her familyand her husband and what's going
to happen from them.
So, for six to eight months ofanxiety, of knowing is he going
(06:32):
to go away to jail for years?
Am I going to be a single mom?
Am I going to be doing this onmy own?
There's all that.
And then, on your side, there'sthe hurt, there's the
frustration, the pain of sayingI am a single mom.
I am doing this on my own nowand I don't get a choice, so
there's got to be that.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
I mean you're wrestling all these emotions and
feelings and I had.
You know there was familymembers and friends and outside
folks, you know, trying to givetheir opinion and what they
thought was right and, you know,not everybody agreed with my
choice in the end.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Why do you think that was?
Why do you think?
Speaker 2 (07:14):
I think human nature is.
You hurt me, I want to hurt you.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Yeah, that's about right yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
You know, but I just, and it's not.
I know that my choices are notnormal, quote, unquote, normal
or what most folks would do,because when I looked at my two
little kids, I'm going to cry.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
It's okay.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
When I looked at my little kids who were suffering
and hurting and trying tounderstand what was happening, I
couldn't really stomach thethought of me making the choice
to make somebody else's childrenfeel that way Because it was an
(08:12):
accident.
Once I knew 100% it was anaccident.
I just I couldn't.
I couldn't stomach just beingthe one to be to make that
choice.
You know you hurt me, I'm goingto hurt you was not even a, it
(08:37):
wasn't a consideration.
Wow, wow.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
I know that's not normal, but that's a it's a huge
thing, though, I think, if weall kind of had enough time to
just stop and take a breath andand have that idea maybe and in
the long run I mean 15 yearslater.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
In the long run, I'm grateful that I had to wait for
that report so have a knee jerkbecause you feel like if you had
to decide immediate.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Yeah, it would have been a different response.
Literally immediate.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
It would have been a whole different response because
, you know, I was hurting, I wasmad, it was all the things.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Well, I'm sure you're still even fighting that eight
months later.
You're fighting that yearslater probably.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Not now, no, but it took a lot of years to kind of
work through that.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Because, I mean, some people have the idea too, like
if you don't press charges,you're almost disrespecting TJ,
or that's not fair to him.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Oh, I heard that.
People told me that.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Oh really.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Oh yeah, wow, Family told me that.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Yeah, and I'm like well, if that's what you thought
, then number one, you didn'tknow TJ Because he would have
never.
He would have never wanted meto do that.
And also, you don't know meBecause that's not the kind of
person I am.
I've never been that kind ofperson.
(10:04):
I've never been anintentionally ugly person, ever.
I mean, even now I had peopletell me that.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Wow.
It's crazy because we I'venever walked that journey.
I've never walked that.
For me to tell you what youshould and shouldn't do is
ridiculous to me.
It seems crazy that peoplewould do that, but I know people
.
They make decisions that arehurt, that are always good ones
and healthy ones.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
And this part of the story is most of the time this
is the hard part for me to share.
I mean is most of the time,this is the hard part for me to
share?
I mean there's a lot of hardparts, but I don't want it to
come across as I'm such a goodperson because this or that, or
(10:57):
I'm the nicest person because ofthis, but that was hard.
That was hard to get to thatpoint and it felt like a
relatively fast timeline to getto that point.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Yeah, yeah, six to eight months to walk through.
You walk through and be therein eight months.
Yeah, seems extremely fast.
Yeah, seems extremely fast.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
I mean to go from I couldn't.
I was not the person, Icouldn't verbalize the words to
tell my kids that their dad died.
I couldn't say it.
I had to get somebody else totell them.
Two be the one to say out loudI'm not pressing charges, it was
(11:45):
an accident.
That is in just a handful ofmonths.
That's huge.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Yeah, it is yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
But I mean, that wasn't my strength, that was my
faith that I drew on.
It's wild bringing up theseemotions this many years.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
It's okay.
It's okay though.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
I know, but it's just wild.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yeah, Because we talked about we have.
Several times over the last 13years we've been married.
I'm 13 in the next month.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, it's crazy.
Yeah, the next month.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
I've asked you lots of questions about TJ.
I've asked you lots ofquestions Mm-hmm.
It's, I think, just empathy forwhat you went through and who
you are now.
And to see who you are now andhow you see life is beautiful.
It shows the power offorgiveness, yeah, in such a
(12:48):
beautiful way.
It's the.
It is that beautiful picture ofhow God forgives us for things
in our life.
It's like you forgave him whennot to be mean, but he didn't
deserve it.
Yeah, but you gave it anyway,and how that freed you to.
I'm not saying like look whereyou're at now, but I know it's
like look what awaited you onthe other side.
(13:11):
I remember one night I camethis is one that just so you'd
went to bed early and I hadstayed up late and I was
watching TikTok.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Surprise, surprise, I know it's a typical night
around here.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
I was probably watching YouTube golf and got
distracted by TikTok.
And then I go across this honorwalk and if you don't know what
that is, it's when someone isan organ donor at the hospital
and these people line thehallways and they're wheeling
this person through the hallwayand everybody's clapping and
(13:47):
cheering and some people are,and these people had lined the
hallways and they're wheelingthis person through the hallway
and everybody's clapping andcheering and some people are in
the families walking with them.
Yeah, and man, I am justwrecked, like I'm emotionally
wrecked, watching this TikTok.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
And then I remember I think it was I told you, I
think it was the next morning, Iwas just like I saw this video
and I told you and think it wasthe next morning, I was just
like I saw this this video and Itold you and you go, yeah, I
did that and my immediately Ifelt this just brokenness, for I
was like I never, I never eventhought of that, I never even
(14:19):
thought that you that'ssomething you had walked through
something emotionally, becausejust me watching I didn't even
know the guy that they'rewilling down the hospital and
I'm an emotional wreck watchingit.
It's, it's horrible.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
And when you did that , I was like well, it's horrible
and it's beautiful at the sametime okay, do you?
Speaker 1 (14:38):
yeah, can we?
Can we?
Can you want to share that?
I mean, that's not to ask, butI but I feel like it's almost
because there's some things toofor me like I love you and I
love Thomas and I love Aaron,just like they're my own.
I do I treat them the same wayI do Callie and Cody.
I love them the same way theyare.
(14:59):
And I also, too, want to honorTJ, and I know TJ would be so
proud of who they are.
He would, but at the same timeit's like I want to know his
stories, I want to honor him.
I want him to be honored inwhat his legacy of Thomas and
Erin.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Gracious.
This is emotional conversationand that's one of the things.
That's—you and I have talkedabout it.
It's such a delicate balancebetween like—good, gracious.
Let me get control of myself.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
It's okay.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
It's such a delicate balance of honoring Him and
being proud of what— we had andour babies and also being proud
of what you and I have.
I don't want either thing to bediminished in any way.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
And we've worked really hard not to do that.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
We have worked really hard and you have been very
helpful even in the first.
You know very helpful even inthe first.
You know five or six years ofour marriage, helping me know
that it's okay to talk about TJ,and so we have worked on that
(16:24):
really hard because I mean it'simportant for Thomas and Aaron.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Because, good gracious, would he be proud of
those kids.
So, the honor walk thingBecause of the nature of TJ's
accident, there was only twoorgans that were salvageable His
(16:52):
liver and, I'm pretty sure, hisheart I'm not 100% so when the
accident happened, because hewas an organ donor on his
license, they kept his body onlife support until there's a
company I don't know for sure,there's still a thing but at
(17:14):
that point there was a companycalled LifeLink.
Yes, and they would literallylink lives with the organs and
(17:38):
the recipients that needed themon the donor transplant list.
And so, um, the, the, the folksthat were representing their
company at that time wereabsolutely fantastic.
It was a young man and a younglady and they were precious and
they were so well-trained and,um, it was actually me and TJ's
mom.
We were in this little roomtogether and we met with them
and I don't remember all of theconversation other than whatever
(18:02):
was salvageable is what theywould use and, like I said, I
know it was two organs for sure.
And so, when the donation dayis what they call, it came
around I don't know, I don'tremember how many days it was
after and so, yeah, that wholewalk of honor, or I mean you
(18:30):
know they roll the bed orwhatever.
It's a real thing, it's a realemotional thing.
It was awful, just to be honest,with you as the widow.
It was awful.
I did not find joy in that.
I didn't find joy that therewas somebody that was going to
(18:52):
be able to.
Their lives would improve forthat moment just because of how
I got to where that was.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Well, that's an honest.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
I mean, that's an honest, real feeling for where
you were at.
Yeah, but has that changed bynow, though no, no, you're still
not happy that his organshelped somebody.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Okay.
So my initial response of nowas I got a letter like a year
after from a recipient'sdaughter Vivian's daughter,
(19:40):
grown up of how her father couldbe a part of a grandchild's
life and this, and that it'ssuch a strange feeling I mean I
guess it was probably thedefinition of the word
bittersweet.
Yeah, I'm happy for them, butI'm bitter for myself.
I was still bitter then.
Yeah, that was hard.
(20:00):
Yeah, that was real hard.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Oh well, yeah, what's crazy?
How someone's?
It's this crazy thing in lifethat someone's death actually
gives life to someone else.
And then us as humans whenwe're on the receiving end of
that, it's hard for us to seethe person, the sacrifice that
it took for us to get that life,I mean I still have the letter
(20:28):
somewhere in the keepsake box ofTJ's stuff that we have.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Yeah, um, that was, that was hard and there's been a
lot of hard parts of that wholejourney.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
A lot of hard parts, um, and that was a biggie, that
was a big one well, yeah, sothere's so much here that and I
again, this is a lot for you toshare and I appreciate you
because I know it is veryemotional and we're pretty laid
(21:02):
back.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Happy-go-lucky people we are so, believe it or not,
if you're listening to this.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
So, but also too.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
And this is hard for me to share.
Not, I mean it's hard to rehashsome things, yes, but it's hard
for me to share in a way thatfeels, I mean, I think
transparent is pretty much how Idescribe it, but I don't ever
(21:33):
want it to come across of I'mbetter than you because this is
how I dealt with it.
That's very important to me.
I don't.
I would never wish my journeyon anybody.
I never would.
I mean this.
Many years later, there's stillthings that come up.
(21:55):
I mean when I mean as much aswe love Lucy Grace, our
grandbaby, she's a year old, awhole year old now.
That's our grandbaby.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
And then there's still folks that are like we'll
bring up.
Well, bring up.
Oh, tj would be so happy toknow he has a grandchild, or you
know, are there any Petillofeatures that you see?
Or well, I shouldn't, maybeshouldn't have said their last
name, but are there any?
Speaker 1 (22:24):
I think people can figure this out, are there?
Speaker 2 (22:28):
any family traits that you see in her and things
like that.
It still comes up.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yeah, and that's not a bad thing, but it's also too.
I think.
Here's the part where and youand I have talked about this, so
I'm going to say it because youdon't have to say it, and you
can disagree with me on themicrophones, because I know how
you really feel.
But, like when you're at thiscrossroads, you're at this place
and you get to choose toforgive or you choose not to
(23:01):
forgive.
Yes, it's almost like as crazyas it is.
You pick a side.
You either become a victim oryou become a victor.
Yes is you pick a side, youeither become a victim or you
become a victor, yes, and thenif you're not careful and you
don't deal with that, thatbecomes your identity of who you
are and you're toting aroundthis forgiveness weight and that
(23:23):
becomes like who you are.
That's your identity, like youcould have been just the widower
, who is a horrible situationwhat you did, and it doesn't the
I know, because some peoplewould say the fact you moved on
was almost like, well, youdisgraced TJ oh, people did say
that to me because I I met TJ acouple of times, which is crazy.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
It is crazy uh, because he was a youth pastor
while I was a youth pastor.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Yeah, really cool dude.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
And I would know, probably at the same sense he'd
be like that's not what he wouldsay at all.
I know that's what he would saybecause or not say, or
whichever yes, because he losthis father at a very young age.
He was 15 when his father dieddied.
(24:18):
So we literally had thisconversation multiple times of
what he wanted for me.
If that happened to him, and soI know without a doubt that he
will be proud of me, and that'shard to say why, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
He'll be very proud of you, he'll be proud of me,
the way you processed and movedthrough, because I mean, this
was a high school sweetheart youwere married to for—.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
I'll say it's hard to say because I've never said it
out loud before.
He'll be proud of me.
Yeah.
He'll be proud of how I've doneeverything.
He'll be proud of how I raisedThomas and Aaron by myself.
He'll be proud of who I choseto help me with that.
That's probably the first timeI've said that out loud and
(25:04):
he'll be proud of me.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
And I know that.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Yeah, and I know that .
Yeah, I think people who knowyou, jess, who have met you,
would just say you have thisenergy about you that is so
attractive, in the sense ofeverybody likes you, like
everybody just wants to bearound.
They enjoy being around you.
(25:29):
They enjoy and I 100% believeMaybe not everybody, 99% of the
people, 99.8% of the people,because there's always someone
but I think it all goes back tothis because it shows your heart
.
This is who Jess really is.
This is Jess's heart, and theheart of it is forgiveness and
(25:51):
love and forgiveness and all ofthat.
That's what I was about to say.
This is Jess's heart and theheart of it is forgiveness and
love and forgiveness.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
That's what I was about to say.
This is not a woo.
Jess is the greatest personever.
No, I made a really hard choicea long time ago to forgive, and
that's, just from that point on, is how I've lived my life, and
it makes little things seem soinsignificant, I mean.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Well you talked about .
We're talking about forgivenessin the sense of like this is a
Huge, huge, huge thing.
Yeah, it's like man, I hopethere's a if they're out there
and you're listening to this andyou've walked through this.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
I am so sorry and please message me so I can talk
to you.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Yeah, but in the same sense, it just goes to show you
, no matter what you walkthrough, there's—forgiveness is
always a choice, yeah, and it'salways something you get to
choose to move forward, and ifyou do, there's a lot of freedom
on the other side of thatthere's a lot of freedom, and I
know when I talk about you, Italk about you like you are
(26:57):
literally the greatest thing inthe whole wide world.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
You do.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
You are like the ultimate hype man for me and I
appreciate that.
Yeah, I do.
It really helps me.
You hung the moon in my eyes,yeah, which is not really true,
but I appreciate you feelingthat way.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
But that I don't want for people to have to walk
through something so just such atragedy to be able to
experience the freedom of whatforgiveness feels like.
It should not take a hugelife-altering event for you to
realize, if your husband leavesa mess or if your kids don't put
their shoes where they go orlike little things like that, to
(27:52):
not seem like such a big dealbecause they're not Like.
After, after my whole journeyand once I decided to forgive
and I was just, I had the, the,the opportunity to, to, to go
through counseling and time topass, and I would hear again
(28:17):
this is not.
I'm so much better than you.
I would hear women complainabout their husbands.
Well, he can't even put hisunderwear in the hamper, or he
leaves dirty socks everywhere,or there's empty water bottles
all over the house.
I would get so angry and I wasugly to lots of people and I did
apologize to lots of people,but I'm like at least he's there
(28:38):
to do it.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Because, in the grand scheme of things, you can put
the water bottle in the trashcan for him, or you can pick up
the dirty clothes and toss themin the hamper for him, and it
doesn't have to be a thing.
Everything is not a thingBecause at least he's there to
do it Well that's a differentperspective.
(29:02):
That's my perspective.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
I don't like leaving my clothes laying around.
I know you don't, I do leave.
There are certain things that Iknow probably would drive
normal people crazy, that youdon't like Again in the first
episode or one or two episodesago.
I still have my stuff from thegolf trip sitting on the
bathroom counter.
I'm just using my bathroom bagI'm just working out of it
(29:26):
instead of putting it into thedrawer.
It's been days, yeah, and soit's like it's okay with me, I'm
okay with it and you're kind oflike okay with it too.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Like you could give me a hard time about it.
I could.
I'm going to cry, but you camehome.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
You're here.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Yeah, and that may seem as crazy as it is, that may
seem very trivial and silly topeople.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
But it's not to me.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah, until you experience the person you love
doesn't come home.
Yeah, and you get that knock oryou get the phone call.
Yeah, and that's what we'vealways said, like that's why in
the morning I get up and I makecoffee for you in the morning,
yeah, and I give you a hug and Ikiss you in the morning,
because I'm like who knows ifthat's the last time we ever see
(30:10):
each other.
Yeah, we might not come home,yeah, if we get a knock or we
get a phone call and everythingchanges.
And so it's like sometimes youcan look at life that way and it
can be daunting.
It also can be very refreshing,yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
All right, so I got a question for you.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Is it going to make me cry?
Speaker 3 (30:26):
I hope not.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
I'm not like trying to make you cry, I'm trying to
get control of myself.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
In this time frame, however long it was.
You know, we're talking aboutforgiveness.
We're talking about thestruggles that come along with
that, the hurts and the scarsand the pain that comes through
that.
And this might be amulti-tiered question, but we
have already covered some of it,such as, you know, forgiving
(30:54):
the, the man who ran over TJ,having those, those wrestlings
and those struggles was itsomething that you were able to
forgive immediately.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
No.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
So it took time, and I say that because I've
experienced things, not whatyou've been through.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
No, but you've experienced hurt.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
And it's not easy to forgive right away.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
No, it's not.
No, I became a Christian when Iwas 12.
But I grew up in church and Igrew up, I mean, just you know,
kind of right.
I wasn't necessarily raised ina Christian household, but I was
raised in a Christian family,and so that was just kind of a
way of life and so it wasn'tlike this big idea that I had
(31:43):
nothing, no knowledge of, and soI knew what forgiveness meant
uh, no knowledge of, and so Iknew what forgiveness meant, Um,
but it's interesting because,although my relationship with,
with Jesus is a personal thing,um, it's, it's more abstract, I
(32:03):
guess, because it was not, it'snot a physical in my face.
And so when it became a physicalin my face, um, a choice
whether or not to forgive and Idon't even know well, I do know
it was it was God putting thosethoughts in me of just to
(32:26):
forgive to be able to moveforward.
But my counselor also, you know, helped me with that too.
I just I knew within my myselfand my heart that I had to be
able to reach that point offorgiveness to be able to keep
moving forward.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Yeah.
So question, and this may bejust at least the perspective
I'm seeing this story unfold,right, Because even I'm learning
things I've never known aboutyou.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
It's not something we talk about often while we're
hanging out.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
No, yeah for sure, in those seasons of life where you
couldn't find yourselfforgiving, even though you knew
God was calling you towards that, how would maybe one?
What did you do that helpedlead you to forgiveness?
Right but secondly, there's alot of people who do have a hard
(33:19):
time forgiving.
I've had hard times forgivingeven when I know it's what I
should do.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Right.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Whether it be something as traumatic as what
you've been through right, orwhether it be something where
someone's not putting theirdirty laundry in a basket or
leaving water bottles around.
How would you walk someonethrough helping find forgiveness
in their own heart to share?
Speaker 2 (33:45):
so for me, my grandmother.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
I'm sorry, it's okay, oh, nanny.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Oh, nanny, my grandmother.
We lost almost.
This has been two and a halfyears ago, right, yeah.
So, nanny, good gracious, I'mgetting control of myself.
(34:16):
Nanny was the one who dailywalked.
I say not just Nanny, myparents did too, and TJ's mother
, nanny, was retired already atthat point.
And so Nanny walked with me dayby day.
(34:38):
She was also a really biginfluence of my Christian walk
and so she was just grit, and sowhen it was hard, she would
help me.
Jessie, what are you going tochoose?
You know, what are we going tochoose today?
(34:58):
We're going, you know, shewould literally make me say out
loud what am I choosing today?
What are we doing today?
What you know, what choices arewe going to make today?
So she was a really biginfluence on, she's a huge
influence in who I am in general.
But then I always went back tomy faith of although I became a
(35:26):
Christian at such a young ageand I didn't experience that
whole gutter to glory testimonyI was just like, if God can
forgive humanity for all ofthese awful things, including me
, why can I not forgive too?
Like, why can I not forgive too?
(35:50):
And that's not a naturalthought process to have, but
that's the thought process I had.
I had to just keep choosing itover and over and over again,
and it was not a natural choice.
I was mad and I stayed mad for along time, several months and I
feel like that was rightfullyso.
(36:11):
I feel like it was righteousanger at that point.
But I just had to keep choosingand I had little faces looking
at me and watching the choicesthat I was making.
Erin Grace was a little bittyshe had just turned six, not too
long before that and so.
But Thomas was older and Ithink that mine and your
(36:36):
relationship with Thomasreflects a lot of what he saw me
go through.
And just, I just had to keepchoosing this, choosing to
forgive, and choosing what Ifelt like was right, even though
it didn't feel good.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
That's good.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
And that's a big part of it.
You have to choose what's right, even when it hurts, and it was
a lot of hurt.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
And that's okay.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
So I think choosing forgiveness and choosing to move
past that hurt is those thingsthat keep you from being the
victim and allow you to be.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Oh, I refuse to be a victim right away.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Yeah, because there's a lot of people who walk
through what you walk throughand they're stuck there.
They are and it's just, it'sreally, really sad.
Yeah, because it's an easy, Imean.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
That's the easy choice.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
I'm not saying it's easy.
By any means Hear me out.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
I'm saying when you get stuck there if you stay
there long enough, you're goingto get stuck, and then in my
opinion, on the route I chose,getting stuck and letting
yourself be the victim is theeasy choice, because you just
sit in it.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
And so that goes with whether it's a big thing or
it's a small thing.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Like you can choose to be the victim and say I
should do this or I should getthis or I should get that,
Because usually when forgivenesscomes in, there's I in front of
those statements instead ofthere's a little different.
Yeah, it is so it's a littledifferent, yeah it is.
So it's I and me.
But wow, okay, so man, sounpack, let's talk about it,
(38:18):
let's get, let's give someunpack.
Oh, my To, I mean, we've been.
This is a wrap up, the secondepisode, yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Of two very heavy and emotional episodes.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
And talk about some things to unpack.
The biggest thing for me wouldbe I don't know.
The first thing I think of, thefirst thing comes to mind, is
hey, forgiveness is a decisionfor you.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
Like you get to make that decision.
Yeah, whether it be big orsmall, forgiveness is a choice.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Yeah, and so whoever it is that's hurt you, or
whatever it is that they've wentthrough, if it's this man, the
process start, the process ofhealing, and the healing and the
forgiveness is for you, not forthem, that's true.
And so start to lay this down.
They did an episode.
Good Lord, I see my life inepisodes now, since we're doing
(39:07):
a podcast.
But okay, brian at church did asermon and we talked about
forgiveness.
He gave some good points onthings.
Do you want to read throughsome of those?
Speaker 2 (39:20):
I do, just really quick.
I do Because you took notes.
I did and I'm holding my churchnotes in my hand.
Thank you, brian Hall, holdingmy church notes in my hand.
Thank you, brian Hall.
Forgiveness is a choice, andwe've talked about that a lot.
And it's a hard choice becauseforgiveness is limitless too.
You can't set boundaries onyour forgiveness.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
No, so true.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
I probably, if I had different thoughts at that point
in my life, I would have wantedto set boundaries, and
forgiveness also is withoutattachments.
I will forgive you if no.
That's not how forgivenessworks.
When you forgive, you give upthe right to get even, and I did
that.
And again, I am not beingboastful, Please hear the
(40:10):
humility in this and I toldproducer Michael and I told Greg
I have a hard time sharingparts of this because I don't
want it ever to come off with.
I'm so much better because thisthis has been hard, hard, hard.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
I think that's the thought in your head.
It doesn't come off that way,so let's move on.
So you, that's the thought inyour head.
It doesn't come off that way,okay, well, so let's move on.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
So you give up the right to give, even, and when
you choose to forgive, thatdoesn't mean you turn off the
hurt.
No, I mean with the emotionthat's coming out of me.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
Fifteen years later.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
Yeah, fifteen years later, and the emotion that's
coming from Greg.
He didn't witness me walkingthrough that, but we've talked
about it enough to where hefeels that hurt with me.
Just because you choose toforgive does not eliminate the
hurt and it does not eliminatethe experience that you went
(41:04):
through.
A lot of people need to hearthat too that you went through.
A lot of people need to hearthat too.
When you choose to forgive,that doesn't mean you're
choosing to forget.
No, or it eliminates that thathappened or the event or the
trauma wasn't real.
That is not the same thing.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
You're choosing not to let it weigh you down and
hold you down.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
That is the difference.
Yeah, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
Wow, okay, that is the difference.
Yeah, yes, yeah, wow, okay,that's some good, some good
things from just preach Jess.
Come on now.
I mean some good things fromJess, my testimony.
So let's leave it up to me tojust say let's lighten the mood
and let's do something fun.
Can we do a Silly questions?
(41:49):
Random question time.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Question time.
Question time.
I don't have a question rightnow.
I'm still trying to get myselftogether.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
I got a question Would you rather have the
superpower of flight or thesuperpower of super strength,
one or the?
Either You're not Superman.
You're either like MrIncredible or you can fly.
I don't know of any superherothat just flies Incredible, mr
Incredible.
(42:20):
Don't tell me you've never seenMr Incredible.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
Yeah, like the Incredibles, he's just strong.
That's his only power.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Yeah, I've seen it.
Come on, man.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
In first grade we have morning meetings and this
is one of the questions that Icome up with for morning
meetings.
I love this.
I would choose.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
You're scared of heights.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
I would choose to be strong.
Speaker 3 (42:42):
Yeah, but if you could fly you'd get over that
fear of heights quickly.
She's not even flying in aplane?
Speaker 2 (42:47):
No, I would.
I would fly because I thinkit's the coolest thing that
would be.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
So dope, yeah, just to be able to man the wind in
your face and like, just thatwould scare the crap out of me.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
I would choose to be super strong, because flying is.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
I would like fly and scare the crap out of people.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
Flying is scary.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
Okay, I have a question.
Okay, as a couple, do you fartin front of each other?
Do you think it's funny?
Speaker 2 (43:15):
No, we don't.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
No, not do you think farts are funny?
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Yes, yes, they're funny.
They are funny.
You don't think farts are funny.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
Babe, we don't fart in front of each other.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
I know, but that doesn't mean you don't think
they're funny, like as Babe, wedon't fart in front of each
other, I know, but that doesn'tmean you don't think they're
funny, like as you get the otherday I was going to get up, or
something you did.
I was like oh, I snuck out yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
But every time that happens we don't laugh.
You immediately apologize.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
I'm sorry, I don't know why we don't.
We've just never done that.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
We haven't but my firsties.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
But if it happened, at a guy's night, we would rate
it.
Oh yeah, we would.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Yeah, but my firsties if they toot on the carpet,
like the little area where wemeet to learn, and they make a
big deal about it and I'm likestop, Everybody farts, I fart,
you fart, Everybody farts.
And that's like theconversation I have with my
six-year-olds, but at home wedon't in front of each other I
(44:11):
know which is really weird.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
It is weird, it's really weird.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
We never have so in 13 years, you have never once
passed gas in front of eachother.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Yeah, I remember that really embarrassing story.
I told you where I fartedbecause I was falling and about
knocked myself out because I'dhurt my back and my pants were
half down the honeymoon fartheard around the world.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
I don't remember this .
Yeah, I farted and fell in thebathroom halfway in the bathroom
and out of my pants, I rememberthat.
Yeah, yeah yeah, that washorribly embarrassing.
Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
I've only passed guys in front of you a few times in
all the years.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
Yeah, you do it in your sleep, though sometimes
it's hilarious.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Everybody does, everybody farts back.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
All right.
Well, thank you all for joiningus.
Baggage Claim.
Make sure to laugh atsomebody's fart and like,
subscribe and share our podcast.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
And there will be another episode where you get to
talk about your experience withforgiveness as well.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Yeah, it's not quite as deep as yours.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
It's not.
That's why there's like oneepisode for that one.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
Yeah, it'll be like a half episode, like a quarter of
an episode, five minutes in.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
We'll have extra questions for the next one.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
We'll have extra fart questions for that one.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
Yeah, so thanks for joining us again.
You guys are awesome.
Please keep sharing.
We'll be back again.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
Yes, thank you guys.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
Go Dogs.
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