September 23, 2025 • 62 mins
When did "if you disagree with me, you're against me" become our cultural default? Greg, Jess, and Producer Michael tackle this question head-on in their most profound and timely conversation yet.
Sparked by recent tragic events, this deeply reflective episode examines why we've seemingly lost the ability to connect with those who think differently. The hosts share personal stories of meaningful relationships they've maintained despite significant differences in beliefs and values, demonstrating that understanding doesn't require agreement.
Greg introduces his powerful "what, so, now" framework—a simple but transformative approach to processing emotions during difficult conversations. This method helps separate fact from fiction, emotion from reasoning, and creates space for genuine understanding. "Help me understand how you got here" becomes the episode's central theme—a phrase that opens doors rather than building walls.
The conversation takes a particularly poignant turn when discussing the troubling trend of people celebrating tragedy when it happens to those with opposing viewpoints. Jess shares from personal experience how devastating loss affects families regardless of political beliefs, reminding listeners that behind every public figure is a human being with loved ones.
One of the most powerful moments comes through a simple metaphor: ants of different colors coexist peacefully until someone shakes the jar. Before fighting each other, perhaps we should ask who benefits from our division.
Whether you're struggling with family relationships strained by different beliefs, navigating workplace diversity, or simply feeling exhausted by constant conflict, this episode offers practical wisdom for reconnecting with our shared humanity. The hosts challenge listeners to examine their social circles, information sources, and emotional reactions—not to eliminate disagreement, but to transform how we engage with it.
Ready to move from proving points to making a difference? This conversation might just change how you approach every relationship in your life. Subscribe, share, and join the growing Baggage Claim community now spanning 11 countries and 161 cities.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey guys, what's up?
I'm Greg.
I hope you guys are ready tounpack and get into some good
conversations today.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
And I'm Jess, and this is our podcast Baggage
Claim.
Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
What's up everybody, welcome to Baggage Claim, a
place where we like to haveconversations and help create
some community.
A place where we like to haveconversations and help create
some community.
And so, if you're new here,thank you for joining us.
If you're a regular, thanks forbeing back at the table with us
.
So, wherever you're at, ifyou're new, grab your favorite
drink, whatever that may be,kind of proverbially, pull up to
(00:39):
our table.
You may be driving, who knowswhat you're doing wherever
you're at.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
If you're driving, just pretend like.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yeah, pretend you're sitting at the table with us and
we're just going to have aconversation and tonight's topic
is going to be probably alittle heavy.
Yeah, I know, I know, I know, Iknow what you're saying.
You're like bruh.
The last two weeks were prettyheavy too.
Jess's story.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Kind of poured my heart out.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Great, great story.
If you've not listened to thoseon forgiveness Jess's part one
and part two make sure you gocheck those out.
A really, really good, powerfulstory of forgiveness.
But we're going to jump into atopic.
Before we do that, we're goingto do something fun.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Also, can I just say way to go every single week for
doing the intro.
Can I just say way to go everysingle week for doing the intro.
Thank you, you do it well everytime.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
No, thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
I would not.
I will mess it up or giggle orstumble over my words or forget
what I was supposed to say.
Thank you for doing that everytime.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
You're welcome, you nailed it.
It's different every time it is, but it's not Like you say what
we— You're literally from thehip every time.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
But you say it's different every time.
But you always say what weagreed on or talked about, that
we would like to say.
But you do it every time and Ireally appreciate that, because
one time I tried it and wedidn't record it and it was bad.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
I remember that night it got cut.
It did get cut, it was bad, itwas just bad, and so welcome.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Producer Michael is at the table with us tonight.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
It was just bad, and so welcome.
Producer Michael is at thetable with us tonight.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Michael is not behind the desk.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
He is over here with us.
I'm behind the mic stand.
Yes, I have to laugh.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
I don't know why I didn't think of moving this
before.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Because I'm literally like it's stretched all the way
out of me.
My microphone stand is stillattached to our literal table,
but it's literally also like sixinches in front of me.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Yes, yeah, it's very awkward, I have no place to put
my arms.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
I'm like what do I do with my arms?
You can hug her.
How's that?
Yeah, you hug her, that'sperfect.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
I might actually have to do that.
That's cool.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
But we're happy to have you at the table.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Thank you.
So before we get our seriousbig topic tonight, we're going
to do question time.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Question time Question time.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
So we did one with.
We did a dude thing with abuddy of mine, mason and Michael
we're all chatting.
It went off the rails when wetalked about food.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
It went off the rails so far, I didn't mind dude
night because It'll probably bethe last time that the dudes get
the podcast room by themselves.
Y'all got.
It's two episodes worth.
I didn't mind dude night,because I got to go to bed early
, you did, I got to go to bedall by myself and read, and
y'all just were out here havingdude time it was good, it was
fun.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Do you remember that whole thing after, like, we did
question time and we were like,hey, we've got to keep question
time to like five to eightminutes before?
Speaker 2 (03:23):
we can actually get in.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
No, I'm pretty sure we were about 15 minutes in
before we actually got tocontent.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Boys, boys, boys.
It was phenomenal.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
All right, so question time.
Who's first?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
First.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
I don't have one Travesty, that's a travesty,
that's a travesty.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
All right, I have a good question.
Oh wait, no, I just came out ofthe point For you specifically,
who do you think won in fantasyfootball this week?
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Really, that's what we're going with bro.
That's what we're going withGregory At this table At this
table, Gregory.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
At this table Because we happened to match up this
last weekend.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
I already know, because I also am a winner this
week.
Hey-o, I beat our son Thomas byone and a half points.
It was a close one.
A win is a win.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
A win is a win, I'm not taking it away.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
You beat Mr Peck over here.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Hey, can I just say.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
I'm at a tough-, do you remember?
Speaker 3 (04:12):
what the score was, greg Dude.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
I don't care.
Okay, I'm at a tough spot in mylife right now and my fantasy
football.
Hey, shut your mouth.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Reach into our DMs.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
You can reach out to us.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Can you just tell your story so our friends can
feel you want me to?
Speaker 1 (04:36):
let the secret out.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
I don't know if that secret's allowed to be out.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
No one knows, except for Michael.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
I'm comfortable with the secret being out.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
There's skin in the game on this league.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
I'm comfortable with a secret being out, because I
have a really good husband.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Okay, so we joined this fantasy.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
You're very kind to me.
We have a fantasy footballleague.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
It's a relatively serious league.
It's not like over the top.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Yeah, there is some prize money.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yes, and there is a lot of trash talk.
Also, this season is the firstseason girls were invited.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
As I said, we had to vote on that.
We did a private meeting andvoted on it.
What was the whole thing?
Speaker 1 (05:11):
That was, and so we allowed the ladies in.
Thank you sir.
Then what?
Speaker 3 (05:16):
happened, Greg?
We allowed the ladies in.
Then what?
Speaker 1 (05:19):
happened.
Draft night.
We had draft night.
It had to be on a Wednesday at9.45.
It was Wednesday at 1,000o'clock.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
It was at 9.30 on Wednesday, that's 1,000 o'clock.
For any of my friends who areteachers that listen, 9.30 may
as well be 1,000 o'clock,because at that point on a
regular night I've pretty muchbeen asleep for an hour I'm not
rambling.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Jess was in the bed at 7 o'clock.
Draft started at 9.30.
She was asleep by 8.
So I go in there 20 minutesbefore and I say will you please
log into your fantasy footballon the computer?
So I have the iPad on one,which is mine, I have the
computer on one, which is herteam.
I had all the players that Iwanted.
(06:01):
I put them in the queue.
Well, I got confused afterround one and thought I was
drafting my team.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Jess has a really good team.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Jess has a team and it is phenomenal.
Super good team.
Yes, I'm doing great and myteam is crap.
It's almost so bad.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
I just need to, just like I just got to go, start.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
My team is really good.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Yeah, it's really good.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Yeah, like I just gotta go start, my team is
really good.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Yeah, it's really good in my own defense so we
knew ahead of time.
In her own defense, did you putyour roster together?
Speaker 2 (06:34):
no, I didn't do anything but sign in because we
had to wait for you so that wecould have the draft at 1000
o'clock well, it wasn't just me.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
There's multiple people who work late on
Wednesday nights, but I said outloud I had the draft at a
thousand o'clock.
Well, it wasn't just me,there's multiple people who work
late on Wednesday nights.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
I feel like it was just you.
No, it wasn't just me, but Isaid out loud after dinner that
our son and the family they wenthome, took Lulu to bed.
We were cleaning up the kitchen.
I'm like I'm going to go sofast, take a shower, get ready
for bed so I can be ready forthe draft.
I said to Greg I'm going to goand sit in the bed, I'm going to
(07:10):
read Lies.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
They're all lies.
It was not a lie, that was amistake.
It doesn't matter.
You were asleep for a fewminutes.
Five minutes, you were asleep.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
I read, and then the next thing I remember I was
asleep on my side with the bookstill in my hand, and usually
this wouldn't be a sore subjectwith me.
I don't care If you want to goto bed at 7 o'clock go to bed at
7 o'clock, but not on draftnight.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
I know, but not when I'm trying to draft my team and
I draft my team as your team.
I'm a little bitter.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Yeah, I'm frustrated a little bit, as you should be.
And I'm not denying that Crossthe finish line for the next 15
weeks and try to make something,because the complete opposite
situation was our collegefootball draft night, where we
were all in, literally all inthe same room.
It was dinner, it was a wholething, and that's what we have
(07:56):
to do next year and not workaround your schedule at 1,000
o'clock.
It has to be another differentnight where I can be awake.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
It's easier for me.
For professional, I can playoff the athlete.
When it comes to college, Ihave teams that I just like and
teams I hate.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
And teams you trust and teams you can't trust.
I was going only by stats oncollege football I did not pick.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
I picked off, my heart picked, not my mind.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Even my college football fantasy team is great.
I am so great.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Blah, blah, blah.
So good, and I picked thoseguys by myself.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
I asked you two questions that whole night.
Thank, you.
Well, you won and Thomas won.
I don't even know.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Anyway, let's move along because this is a sore
subject.
Did we have another question?
I don.
We have another question?
Speaker 2 (08:46):
I don't want another question.
I just kind of threw us therein a fit.
Yeah, it was horrible.
Okay, here's a weird question.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
That was very like.
Yeah now I'm just kind of sadright now Go for it, Jess.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Usually it's like are you this or are you that?
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
My question is flip-flops when you wear them,
do they actually flip and flop?
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Yes, if you're on the beach in sand, yes, they do
flip and flop.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yours were flipping and flopping on the way in here.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
That's how I came up with this question.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
If it's wet, they flip and flop.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
And they also go.
That's not a flip-flop sound,though.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
It's kind of fun when it's got that squishy noise.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Yeah, yeah I kind of like it.
I don't know Especially likethose little cheap ones you get
like for just summer trips orsomething.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Well, I say y'all.
We have people listening in somany countries now I'm saying
y'all, but people who live.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
That means everyone, it means you all, yeah, you all.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
But where we live, old Navy is a store and every
summer they sell cheapflip-flops.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Yep, I buy a new pair every summer.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
So do I typically, and I had on my cheap—.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
I don't.
I have nice flip-flops $1.99flip-flops.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
You do have nice flip-flops I don't think I own a
single good pair of flip-flops.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
He only, I just don't .
This man.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
I have three pair and they're really nice.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Well, he has very specific things that he spends
money on, and clothing and shoesare two of those things, and
weird appliances.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Anyway, don't bring the microwave into this.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Okay, their microwave is like we're living in the
Jetsons.
I just have to say you pressthe button and it goes.
It's a drawer microwave.
It pulls out.
It's kind of fun.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
So I have a question when you go into, say you're
just lounging at the house, okay, do you wear your shoes or
shoes off?
House shoes.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
House shoes.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Like slippers.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yes, really, you know I wear house shoes Team for the
win Like slippers.
Yes, really, you know I wearhouse shoes.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
I have different house shoes for summer versus
winter, versus fall.
I don't have one.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
You know, I have my little pile of house shoes, well
, and mind you also, mine islike that concrete slab, so like
the floor can get cold even insummer.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
So I'll just I say you know, but I do that anyways,
even when I wasn't there.
I would assume you would havenoticed that I wear house shoes.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
If you get on to me like I'll come home, sometimes
I'll have blue jeans and myboots on and you will wear your
world clothes.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
You're outside in the world clothes your world
clothes.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Forever, yeah, I wear them around the house because
it's comfortable.
I'm like why We've been homefrom church for three hours and
you're still wearing your nicejeans, your nice shirt and your
boots.
That stuff's coming off themoment I get in the house.
Yes, it is, yeah, I love myboots.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
They're comfortable.
My tecova's boots arecomfortable.
Well, I yeah, and they areworth the money.
I will agree with that I sawthis thing that said that as
soon as I get home I go from myoutside in the world clothes to
adam sandler as fast as possible.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Yes, absolutely, that's me.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
That is me.
That is me.
We will come home and he willsay I'm going to go let the dogs
out and I'll say, okay, I'mgoing to go use the restroom,
but by the time I come out I'mgoing to go completely different
Bag his sweatpants and hisshirt and ears down.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
I'm like, did you take a nap?
Speaker 3 (12:02):
while I was outside down I'm like did you take a nap
while I was outside?
Yep, yeah, it's crazy.
I love it.
No, when you're at home.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
You gotta chill man.
Yeah, I'm like this is mycomfort zone.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
So let's jump into our topic, all right, because
we're we're ranting and ravingit.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
I feel like me personally, I'm kind of dancing
around in the fun category ofwhat we're talking about
beforehand, because this wasgoing to be harder than yeah,
and so this was going to beharder than.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Yeah, and so this is going to be one of those topics
where we may get a littlepassionate.
We may have to call each otheroff the cliff a little bit and
back each other up, take a break, well, I mean, and even in
following, like, if you'velistened, like the two episodes
where I've told my story aboutforgiveness, and that's hard.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
But I feel like I'm kind of removed from that unless
I get back in and talk about it.
But this topic is very current.
We're in the middle ofSeptember right now and there's
been a lot of things that'shappened in our country and so
this just kind of feels—this isheavy.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Well, last week, the whole idea of— and what sparked
this whole conversation is lastWednesday, Charlie Kirk was shot
and killed and it was one ofthose kind of I was on the job
site working, thomas was someone.
We were all different places.
Thomas was at the fire station,and so I jumped in the group
text and just was like did y'allsee this?
Because it literally just camethrough my phone.
(13:25):
I was listening to something.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
And we're mentioning that you were doing this and
Thomas was doing that, becausewhere we first started talking
about was in our group text.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
With us.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Our son and our daughter-in-law is where this
kind of started out and then Ijust got heavy, heavy, and so
that just, and there was a lotof emotion, a lot of, and we
actually said we want to recordon this and I'm actually glad
it's almost a week removed.
I am because I got really umyeah, just got really upset and
(13:56):
I think there were a lot ofpeople who jumped on and
probably said some things maybe,and I don't, I don't, I don't
want tonight to be.
Tonight is not a Baggage.
Claim is not a place aboutpolitical we're not talking
about politics.
This has nothing to do withthat.
We're not talking about.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
We're still sticking to creating conversations and
community, because that's who weare.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
And so the idea for us is to and the conversation
just come up like where are weat in the world?
Like it was, it was incrediblysad.
But and I never met him, so Ididn't know him personally I had
watched a lot of his stuff,even when he went on Gavin
(14:40):
Newsom's podcast, which I wasintrigued by.
That All the other podcasts Iwas just a fan of his because I
thought he was a veryinteresting guy.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
He was very like, talked to anyone about anything,
and so that was intriguing tome and you could believe in how
he stuck to his convictions,very respectfully.
Yeah, whether you agree withthat or not.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Yeah, whether you agree with him or not.
That's not even what we'retalking about tonight.
It's not like, hey, if youbelieve with him, then jump on
our bandwagon or this bandwagon.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
This is not a pro-Charlie Kirk conversation,
but this is where this spurredout of.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Yeah, well, and I think many times, like even in
relationships and friendships,we are never going to agree.
And if we do agree, oneverything, if we agree on
everything, then what fun isthat?
Speaker 1 (15:33):
You know well, jess and I are married and we've been
married for 13 years, andthere's some things we don't,
yeah, next month we don't agreeon Like there's some things we
would probably be like we justsee things different, like we
just see and that's okay.
And so I think for that that'sthe idea I want us to dig into
(15:54):
is the idea of hope.
I want us to dig into the ideaof hate, why why are we hating?
Why aren't we acting the waywe're acting?
Why are we at a place where wecan't have conversations?
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
And let's maybe okay.
So for me I told Jess it waslike every conversation and this
is one of those facilitatingthings I go through every
conversation for me is a what?
So?
What now?
What?
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Slow down, slow down.
Say that again.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
So it's a what so.
What now?
What so?
It's the whole idea of whatjust happened.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
So what do we do with it?
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Yeah.
So what does that mean for me?
What is that?
What are we?
And so what are the feelingsattached to that?
And then it's the now.
What?
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Now, what am I going to do with?
Speaker 1 (16:36):
that Now, what does that mean for me?
And so it's a process of justbreaking down situations.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
I'm sorry, I'm teachering you, but you just
breezed through that.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
You did say that real fast, yeah, and smart like you
sounded really smart.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
That's the thing.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
I've been practicing for years.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Literally, you have and that's what I was going to
say Like you breezed throughthat, which is why I wanted to
make you slow down a little bit,because not well, you are
trained to help people thinkthrough that.
You're trained in facilitating,and so, like regular, everyday
people, we don't think like that, and so that's a very big skill
(17:14):
.
I think that is important inthis whole conversation that
we're having tonight.
It was like okay, so where arewe at, what's happening, and so
we can dissect that, and ittakes time, and then so what are
we gonna do now?
Then that takes a little bit oftime, and then now, what do we
(17:36):
do to move forward?
So I don't want you to breezethrough that like your thought.
No, and honestly, because I'venot heard.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Even in the time we've been together, I've not
heard you say it like that.
Lay that out, because I thinkone of the things we were
talking about earlier is it's soeasy that, especially when
there's something you'repassionate about that, you get
emotional about it, right?
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
Those three questions right there help you check your
emotions.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
They do Right.
Well, it's to help you processyour emotions.
Yes, very much so yeah emotionsare not like in something like
this.
It's a highly emotional thing.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
And I don't for me I don't get caught on the Charlie
aspect.
I like the guy because he spokelike he was just clear in what
he said.
He was just very clear.
But there's a part of me thatjust gets caught on the.
He was a dad, he was a husbandand he was just a guy chasing
(18:33):
his dream.
He was just chasing his dreams.
That's what he was doing.
I don't and that's hard for me,like when I look at it from
that way that's what kind ofjust unsettled me, and so I had
to process those emotions in away of going okay, how do we do
this in a healthy way that'sconstructive and good?
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Now, aside from what happened to him, that's how you
look at pretty much everything.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
And you've helped me look at things like that.
It's just kind of like, don'tget so caught up in your emotion
, like, let's, let's understandhow we feel.
How do we get there?
And then now, what do we do?
Yeah, and and that's important,regardless of the tragedy that
(19:21):
take, you know if we can putthat aside in a different
category for now, but it's theunderstanding where your thought
process comes from I'm always,and that's the thing for me in
this I'm like I may.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
It baffles me, it really does it, just it.
It shocks me when people arenot willing to just sit down and
have a conversation.
Yeah, like, because I am such aconversation people guy Like I
enjoy.
I actually thrive on chattingwith people who don't act like
me, think like me, who live inthe same world as me.
(19:59):
Like, I want to know, becauseI'm just curious of how did you
get to where you're at?
How did you arrive at thisplace where you're at?
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Well, I mean, that goes back for your own self.
When you were in college, yourmajor was sociology.
Like, you wanted to studypeople from a very young age and
sadly there's a lot of peoplethat you know we all go into
different walks of life.
There's a lot of people thatyou know we all go into
different walks of life.
But I think that a big thing isthat people forget to like,
(20:31):
study each other, like it's okayto figure out each other as you
go through life, because if youcan't do that, then what are we
doing?
Like, regardless of whatprofession you take or what walk
of life you're in, like, if youcan't appreciate and understand
and try to walk alongside otherpeople, then what are you doing
(20:54):
?
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Yeah, yeah, I remember one of the I mean one
of the.
A great relationship I used tohave was Dr Ottingertinger was
in college and he was an atheistand he used to go and just have
, just sit down and I would justhave conversations with I was a
Christian, I was I'd justbecome a Christian and I was a
(21:16):
believer and we would just haveconversations.
I was just so curious how hedidn't believe in anything.
He's like I'm atheist, I don'tbelieve in anything.
I was like how did this happen?
Like please tell me how you gotthere.
And we were just I was reallyjust curious, not in a like
you're an idiot, you're wrong,not an accusatory way.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
No, I was just so curious.
A learning way.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Yeah Right, Just be like I want to know how you got,
because please help me and sowe would talk.
I mean, we had greatconversations around that and it
just seems so sad that we've Ifeel like we've gotten to a
place where we don't do thatanymore.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Like that's frowned upon, I would agree.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
And I don't understand why.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Well, and it's almost as if it's like you say okay,
well, you believe that, so youstay over there, I believe this,
so I'll stay over here, andthen we just don't interact,
right, you know.
And then and I'm not trying toget into media and all that
stuff but then things happen andthen people get more entrenched
in their own ideals and theirown values and it only separates
that gap more it does.
(22:16):
And when you look at allrelationships, I mean just yeah,
I know we talk a lot aboutmarriage relationships and that
here.
So when you look in terms ofthat, it can be so easy to let
that be something that separatesyou, especially if it's
something that you're passionateabout or it's something that
brings up emotion for you.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Well, I will say I mean, greg and I are not perfect
and we have said this all alongthis is our episode number 32.
That's right.
That's wild 32 episodes.
We've tried to make it veryclear that we know that we are
not perfect, but I know that thetime that you and I have been
together, we have hadrelationships with people that
(22:58):
we truly, truly, truly careabout, that do not have the same
belief system that we have, andthey have a very different way
of doing family andrelationships, whatever the case
may be, but we love them as ahuman being and person.
(23:18):
And so those folks in our life,they know that.
So that when we are able to,and we have sat down with them
and just be like, help meunderstand how you got here.
Let me use a Greg Peck phraseHelp me understand how we got
here.
I want to know your thoughtprocess that led you to where
(23:39):
you are right now.
And that doesn't mean I'm goingto love you less, and that
doesn't mean I'm going to startjudging you all of a sudden, it
actually means I'll probablylove you more.
I will agree with that, becausethose same folks are still very
important in our hearts.
Yeah, and so I.
I think that I personalexperience on my side, because
(24:06):
there's been such a vast amountof experience for me and you
both it's just kind of like whycan everybody not be like that?
Speaker 1 (24:14):
be like what accepting.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
and that kind of leads us to what we and I hate
to use this word, I just said itbut what we were wanting to
talk about tonight and we are soit, but what we wanted to talk
about tonight and we are so farinto this episode before we even
talk about, like the subjectmatter, but we kind of like the
word hate.
It just feels it's a heavy wordbut also, given what's
(24:41):
happening in our country rightnow and actions that people are
taking against each other,whether they are on one extreme
or another, hate is such a bigthing right now.
Yeah, would y'all agree?
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Yeah, yes, I agree, and my family can attest to this
.
I agree, and my family canattest to this.
I love information, I lovelearning, I love just hearing,
and so I would turn on everymorning.
When the kids were small, I'dturn on the news and I couldn't
(25:19):
stand some of the guys on CNN,so I'd turn on Fox.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Yeah, all four of our children would say that's the
soundtrack to their childhood.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
They would agree so.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
I was listening to Fox News for a long time and
then I just I found myselffeeling like, okay, you're
saying the same crap and I wouldjust get so aggravated.
And I was, so I would start myday and I was all riled up and
angry and mad and I told Jess Iwas like you know what, I'm just
going to stop watching the newsin the morning, like I'm not
going to do that anymore.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
That was a big shift in our house.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
And I was just she's like what are you going to do?
And I was like I don't know,but I'm not watching the news.
Yeah, it changed.
It changed your thought.
Yeah, felt the way I thought,the way I saw the world, the way
I saw people, because when I'mlooking at media or news outlets
, they're telling me the worldis going to hell.
In a handbasket it's on fire.
(26:13):
Grab a water hose and I'm likeyeah.
I look out my window and I'mlike it looks okay to me we're
okay, yeah, it's like I don'tunderstand what you're talking
about and so it's like becausethose things sell, you know
sizzle sales, and so it's.
And there's a part of me islike I just don't want that and
so I just I cut that out.
But it's like look at your foryou page on your Facebook, your
(26:37):
Instagram your TikTok.
It's TikTok that has a for youpage, yeah, but well, I mean,
they all kind of have a for youpage.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
You don't call it that, that's true.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
The algorithm.
You don't call it that, that'strue, but the algorithm, yeah.
The algorithm knows what youwant and what you want to see,
and you it's.
It's feeding you the same kindof stuff over and over and over
and over again but do you feellike it's feeding you negative
or positive?
Speaker 2 (26:58):
you know?
Speaker 1 (26:58):
okay, I watched this weird.
I got in this weird cop thingone time and I watched this like
cops, like you know, bad copthing, blah, blah.
And it's like all of a suddenmy for you page is full of it
and I was like I don't want tosee that crap.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
I know it's like one video catches your attention.
Yeah, it's like can I reset, doI?
Speaker 2 (27:14):
have a reset button one time I was interested in
that.
That doesn't mean that's allI'm interested in.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Yeah and so it's a.
I think, if we look at what, somany times we look at our lives
and be like what are we puttinginto it, like what are we
actually digesting, and thinkingabout and listening to, yeah.
Like I love him to death.
Cody, our son.
He's an incredibly smart kid.
Incredibly smart kid, smarterthan he even knows.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
He's number three in the lineup.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Yes, Went to UGA, got into Terry school of business,
graduated, did great, made greatgrades, and we started talking
about politics.
On the beach we're havingdrinks and we're talking about
politics, and we were totallyopposites.
And I was like okay, so tell mehow you got there.
And he goes well, so-and-so isa racist, and they're this.
(28:05):
And I was like okay, so tell mehow you got there.
And he goes well, so-and-so isa racist, and they're this.
And I was like really, tell meone time.
You like tell me somethingabout that.
And he was like okay, well,wait a minute.
And so we started talking andit was just, it was interesting.
It was like do you think someof your views you have have to
do with where you've been inschool?
And he's like yeah, it's fairto say, oh, he was 100%.
(28:29):
Yes, yeah, he's like yeah, ofcourse it has to.
And I was like yeah, I wouldagree with that.
I was like because myenvironment has everything to do
with the way I think and theway I feel, yeah, I was like
you're not, you're not, I'm notabsent of that just because I'm
not in college.
But the same thing is is somuch we put into and we digest
and we take it in, but itaffects what comes out, how we
think about people, how we lookat people and there's not many
(28:50):
people out there going.
Why don't you look at theperson across from you and go?
That's a person that hasexperiences, that probably has a
mom or had a dad at some pointand had someone who loves them.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Experiences and thoughts and things that they
actually went through to getthem to where they are.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Yeah, things they're passionate about.
They're chasing a dream.
They're chasing something.
They're looking for purpose.
They're looking for thosethings.
It's like they're looking for areason for why they're here.
It's like why not look atpeople that way instead of well,
if you don't agree with thesame political views I have, or
the same things I have.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Well, it's turned into a.
If you don't agree with me,then you're against me.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Yes, and it shouldn't be that way.
No, it shouldn't be that way atall.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
No because what kind of world would that be, Michael,
when you have a world full ofpeople?
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Yeah, everybody would be against everybody, yeah, or
a world that looks just like you.
I mean honestly I promise, ifyou put, two of me identical
side by side.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
We'd disagree on something.
Yeah, Like we would like in likerealistically and I think most
people, if they were honest withthemselves, would probably get
to that point at some time butjust because you disagree with
someone doesn't mean you can'tlove them, doesn't mean you
can't care for them.
But that mindset of if youdisagree with me, that means
you're against me, that startseating away at that.
(30:00):
Hey, I still love you.
And then it goes away to, ohwow, I really don't love you,
can you just stay over there?
And then it turns into oh man,I really don't like you.
And then it turns into oh man,I actually hate you.
And it's like this, step afterstep after step, that we could
be fighting against as acommunity, as, whether it be a
(30:21):
family or anything like that, itcould just simply be hey, I can
disagree with you, but I canstill love you.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
And as much as I am trying to dance around the word
hate, but that's where it goesto.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
It is.
That's where it ends up.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
That is the process where it ends up at as hate.
If you don't watch it and keepyourself in check, keep your
emotions in check.
It does go to hate.
Why, though, why do you thinkit's so hard to get along with
people that are not like you,like your own self?
Why do you think that's hard?
Because it is, apparently, canI?
Speaker 3 (30:56):
go biblical, you can.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Why did Cain?
Speaker 3 (30:58):
kill Abel.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Because he was jealous.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
He wanted what he had .
It's a nature.
That's who we are.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
But see, that's a, it's a nature, that's who we are
, but see, that's a self thing.
Yeah, yes it's ourself that'sflesh.
Like there's me.
Like I don't.
Like it's not uncomfortable forme to hang out with people who
are different.
Like I want to do this thingand I told jess about it.
Like I want to have this dinner, and maybe at our house or
somewhere else, but I'm brokebroke as a convict right now, so
I can't do it but.
(31:27):
I want to, but I want to invite12 guys that are from different
walks of life.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
If you're listening and you want to be a part of
this, perk your ears up.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
This is really cool.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
I know what he's about to share and you will be,
but I want to invite 12 guysaround the table and we're going
to have and there'll bequestions at their table, at
their seat, and you get to talkabout.
The whole idea is you want tolook for the best in the people
(31:59):
that are sitting around thetable with you, but you are
going to talk about who you arewithout telling people what you
do.
As a guy Like you just get totalk about hard for men.
It's very hard for men.
But in the same idea, I wantlike hey, I don't want 12 people
who look at and sound like meand believe the same way I was.
Like I want vast difference,like I want people to be able to
(32:23):
sit at the table.
Because when I think about itand this is the biblical sense
for me I have a tattoo of atable on my arm, because this is
like when you think about, ifyou read the Bible and you think
about Jesus how many times?
did he meet with people wasaround a table, people who
didn't look like him, act likehim, sounded like him, with
(32:44):
prostitutes, with tax collectors, with the lowest of the lows
and the highest of the highs.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Heck, even his disciples were the lowest of the
low, but he sat at the tablewith them and he shared a meal.
And shared his life.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Yeah, and it was like that's that man, if I'm like
dude, if we can do that, if wecan just start there and just be
like we're all men, let'srespect each other.
Just for you're at the table, Igot respect for you for being
at this table and having aconversation.
I don't care if you think theway I do, believe the way I do.
I just want to say I respectyou for being here.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
I feel like that's just a very human it.
Well it should be, I.
I feel like it should be a veryhuman point of view, because we
are not all alike.
And so that's just a very basicof just humanity.
And then us as Christians, youand I and Michael you add the
(33:39):
Jesus layer, because that isliterally like you said Jesus
ate with and he hung out withand served and listened to
people who were not like him atall.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
No no.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
And I agree with you I don't.
I don't want to be surroundedby people who are just like me.
Does it help?
Yes, of course it does.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Well, it's easy, it's comfortable.
Yeah, yeah, it's comfortable.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
But also if you're only around people who are
exactly like you, that doesn'tchallenge you at all.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
It doesn't challenge you at all.
It doesn't challenge you to belike okay, why do I believe what
I believe?
I think you ought to be able toanswer that question, I don't
care where you're at.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
I do too On the spectrum.
I don't care what you believe.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Christian, non-christian, whatever Buddhist
, hindu, I don't know Christian.
Know what you believe and whyyou believe it Like.
Know that.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Because different doesn't equal bad all the time.
No, it really doesn't.
No, it doesn't, no it doesn't.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
So how do you, if I may, pose a question?
You know, when it comes up towhether it be disagreement in
marriage or politics or anything, Okay, and it is something
that's a really big marriage,well, no, well, I'm saying just
disagreements in general,whatever it may be.
When you do have that emotionalside of it's just hard to
(34:50):
communicate, it's hard to notget angry, even in debate or
conversation.
What do you do that helps yousit down to actually have that
conversation?
Because we're sitting heretalking about hey, we can't stop
having conversation, we can'tstop getting to know people who
are different.
What do you do when that's hard?
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Well, I have learned a lot about that through Greg,
so that's kind of my cheat sheet, but it's not necessarily about
agreeing, it's more of anunderstanding it's I want.
(35:32):
Well, now I say now we've beentogether for 13 years but you
can stop saying that okay, Ihave learned that the more
important thing is not I needyou to agree with me.
The more important thing shouldbe in my opinion, I want to
understand you and at the end ofthe understanding part, you, I
(35:55):
want you to understand me too.
But that doesn't equal.
We're going to agree.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
I just I want.
I want to know where you'recoming from and for you, for you
to explain that you are goingto have to have a solid
foundation of where that camefrom.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
I think everything has a source, Everything has a
root.
I'll say that all the time.
Like it's like anything else,like a massive tree is big oak.
It has roots and those roots godeep and the bigger the tree,
the deeper the roots are yeah um, and so it's.
It's in the same sense of thestronger the passion, the bigger
(36:34):
the belief.
There's a root somewhere andthat started with something look
for the root yeah, for me I'mlike where's the source of that?
like, oh, that's the source ofthat anger that frustration that
that, wherever that may be Forme, when I'm having a
conversation with someone,there's a curiosity about it to
(36:54):
make me want to say where doesthat come from?
When I say help me understand,I'm basically saying I'm going
to questions to realize how didyou arrive at the point where
you arrived?
And we're going to go backwardsand try to find out where that
started at.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Because I'm really curious where that is.
So I will say that, that phrase.
You'll hear us say that a lotof the help me understand and
you may think, oh my God if yousay that one more time.
But that's really true.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
If you start using that in your life, it will
change the way you look atconversations, no matter what
relationship it is, and I bet ifyou use that more in your life,
you'll find yourself growingmore and more too Right.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
So you said, recognize the source.
So a friend of mine from workposted this actually today.
That I thought was fascinating.
It says if you put 100 blackants and 100 red ants in a jar,
nothing will happen.
But if you shake the jar, theants will start killing each
(37:58):
other.
Red will believe black is theirenemy, while black will believe
red is their enemy, when thereal enemy is the person who
shook the jar.
Same is also true in oursociety.
Before we fight with each other, we have to ask ourselves who
shook the jar.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
It's like where did the actual root of the
disagreement come from?
Yeah, or not even disagreementof just the miscommunication.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Because I believe that's what it is.
It's just that anger, becauseif you dig down deep into that
and you really, really want toknow, it's like, hey, tell me
where that anger and thatfrustration comes from.
Because, dude, we're alldifferent, we all grew up
differently, we all haddifferent parents.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
The three of us sitting here at this table?
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Yes, completely different, all three of us
vastly different, vastlydifferent and so it's like I
don't see, it's just, it's justinteresting.
Like in my life I grew up wherethere was a lot of um, violence
was a normal thing, like um itreally was.
And then I got into kickboxingand and and karate and I did
that for a little while, which Ithought it was, and then I just
(39:08):
became really good at fightingbut I realized this isn't
helping me, I don't need to dothis, and so I finally kind of
bowed out of that, which it justlike violence was never a way
for me to.
It just seemed like a very, veryshallow way of expressing any
kind of emotion.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
But then for Michael you grew up completely different
than that.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
Yeah, quite different Homeschooled Right, right,
worked family business, thatkind of thing Right.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
And then my own self.
I grew up completely differentthan that, but both my parents
didn't divorce.
I was a grown and like, butthen there was like some alcohol
and then there was a change inthat and it was just like so
many moving parts of justdysfunction and miscommunication
, but there was never violenceinvolved and so, like, if we all
(40:00):
look at all the things of we'realthough the three of us are
really good friends andobviously you and I are married
we're pretty good friends, yeah,and so I think so but like we
are all very, very different andhow we have arrived at who we
are and the opinions that wehave, yeah, like I love having
conversations with Michaelsometimes about his life and
(40:23):
growing up and how he thinks,the way he thinks and the way
and it really does, Because Imean, there was a lot of
violence.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
It was my dad's side of the family.
My mom's side was just they'rejust good old, they're just
great people, Loving sweet mymom.
If it weren't for my mom, Godknows where I would be in life,
but it's like you would be injail Probably.
Yeah, Like permanently, yeah,and so it's a.
But there's a curiosity for meto be like Michael.
(40:50):
Why do you think that way?
Because you grew up in church,Like you've been around church
your entire life.
Both of you have.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
Yeah, we have.
My dad was a pastor.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
I don't know if you know, like when I was younger,
my dad was a pastor, I do knowto the package store on Sundays
because I would get popcorn whenwe would go to the drive-thru,
when we go to the bootlegger,because you couldn't buy beer on
Sunday when I was a kid.
Yeah, and I was excited to goget popcorn from the bootlegger.
So like that's the life we grewup in.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
You know it's like okay, cool.
Would you guys agree that, like, as we're trying to move
forward in the country that welive in today, because I do feel
like there's kind of a strongresurgence of a lot of things,
Would you agree with that?
Speaker 3 (41:33):
Yeah, I would agree.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
So I feel like kind of the first thing that we
should do, maybe like checkyourself, like let's think about
like know why you believe whatyou believe, and it's okay to
look outside your own bubble,yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
Yeah, Well, and for me, like we're talking about
disagreements, trying to findyou know, yeah, we're vastly
different, but we still have somuch in common.
I don't know why.
Call it whatever you want, Callit, whatever you want, but it's
almost as if everything insociety, instagram, tiktok,
(42:11):
everything we're always findingand looking at our differences.
Yeah, and don't get me wrong,there are some things about our
differences that we should beproud of.
Yeah, like own your heritage,own so much of that, but also,
at the same time, I think welose sight of what we have in
common.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:29):
We lose sight of the fact that realistically, we may
have opposing views, but if wedig down at the root, we find
the source.
We actually care about the samethings.
Yeah, we want to see the sameend results.
Yeah, and so I think that, ifwe can and that's where I look
at when I think of check myselfit's okay.
(42:49):
First off, check myself,because why in the world does
everyone feel like their opinionis the right opinion Right, and
I say this to myself I have tocheck myself because so many
times I feel like, well, that'smy opinion and that's what's
right, because that's why Ithink that's what's right.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Well, there's a difference between my opinion
and my emotions, so I feel likeyou have to be able to like kind
of deconstruct your emotions tofigure out like, where am I at?
Like, let's learn to separatefact from fiction I mean
honestly, I hate to say it thatway but fact from emotion,
(43:27):
because a lot of emotion isbased on fiction and narrative
that you build in your own headversus like no, really, are we
like at the basis of where we'reat?
Do we agree on the very root ofwhere we're at?
Speaker 3 (43:42):
Yeah.
And a lot of times, like yousaid, yes, we do, we truly do
yeah, and a lot of times, likeyou said, yes, we do, we truly
do.
Well, and the thing is when,when you dig down and you
understand why I believe what Ibelieve, um, it gives you a
foundation.
But what's important in that is, yes, you should constantly be
asking, learning more and moreabout other things, but if you
(44:03):
don't have a foundation of whyyou believe in what you believe,
you know, for me, god, truth,the Bible, it's rooted in one
thing and that's Jesus Christ.
But if I'm not rooted, I couldbe easily tossed around and
thrown around.
My beliefs change every otherweek you know that kind of thing
.
But when you know what you'rerooted in, you can in confidence
(44:24):
hear what other people disagreeand not be so worked up yeah,
over it yeah
Speaker 1 (44:30):
because you know I think what breaks my heart, and
it really does break my heart.
And then there's this wholelike, if you've been on social
media, you've seen this crap ofpeople who are celebrating and
are excited about theassassination of a man, a
husband and a father.
Yeah, and so there's a part ofme that's just like okay, just
(44:54):
because you don't agree, how doyou celebrate the death of a guy
who just shared he wasn't aboutviolence.
No, he wasn't about anger,frustration, hatred.
Listen to his podcast, to hisdon't listen to your peers.
Listen to him, just go listen toit, um, and just the the idea
(45:16):
of a guy who's just even even ifyou don't agree with what he
says he's just sharing histhoughts and his opinions.
No one.
Why is it that we have peoplewho feel like, oh well, he
deserved it?
Let me tell you, I live in ahousehold with two kids who lost
their dad, and it's 15 yearslater.
(45:37):
I don't care who you are.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
That makes a mark on kids.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
It will make a mark on his kids' lives and his kids'
lives will grow up with thatpain and they'll carry that with
them and they'll deal with that.
His wife will deal with that.
She'll have to move on, and foryou to sit and say I don't care
about that, I don't care abouther.
Speaker 3 (45:57):
It's just mean.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
You need to dig deep in your heart and go.
Why do I?
Speaker 1 (46:04):
feel that way.
It's just plain old.
Mean yeah, why do I feel thatway?
It's just plain old, mean yeah,I don't get that Like that
doesn't?
I don't understand that leveland I would love to talk with
someone who has Even I mean, Iwill say it Like even a show
that the Bird Show here inAtlanta.
I know they don't ever listento this, but at the same time,
(46:28):
it's a show that I've beenlistening to literally since my
kids were babies.
I would listen to this all theway on the ride home.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
I've been listening to that show since I was in high
school.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Yeah, forever.
Well, they get on there andthey're just having a
conversation, but then they gointo this bashing session and
basically just saying I'm notsad that he B, I'm not sad that
he.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
Bert, the host and owner of the show.
He started off well and he wasjust talking about how his heart
felt heavy for where things arein our country and there's such
a divide and he started offwell and then he said I don't
know if who you know, if youknow who Charlie Kirk is or was,
(47:09):
and they kind of brieflyexplained that you know he had
passed away the day before andhe was like he's a political
activist, he's a Christian andhe promoted like debates and
nonviolent activism and allthose things.
He started off strong.
Then the other women on theshow kind of took over the
(47:37):
conversation and they went very,very negative and they were
calling Now this is an opinionand I appreciate that's their
opinion.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
Right.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
Now, this is an opinion and I appreciate that's
their opinion, right.
What I don't appreciate is thatthey did not take into account
that the audience that waslistening may not share their
opinion.
They name, called, theycategorized him in a very
negative way, a lot of negativethings.
(48:09):
And then the last person thatspoke up I'm not going to say
her name because I don't want togive her any satisfaction she
said that she was not sad, thatshe was satisfied that he lost
his life because of his beliefs.
She didn't take into accountthat he was a 31-year-old man
(48:30):
that was killed for standing upfor what he believed in, for
positive matters, didn't takeinto account that his wife is
now a widow.
She did not take into accountthat his two children will grow
up without their biologicalfather and their his influence
(48:50):
in their life.
And she said I am not sad, he'sdead, and that is wrong.
I don't care who you are.
That is wrong.
Yeah, and I know that I amcoming from a very personal
passionate place.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
It did hit you in a very personal because—.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
And I messaged that morning show.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
When DJ passed away he was 31.
Same age, 31 years old, and sothat hit home with you.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
Was he murdered?
No.
Was he a political activist?
No.
But was he a Christian fatherand a Christian husband who
stood for the right things in abiblical opinion?
Yes.
Would he have aligned with whatCharlie Kirk was doing?
Yes.
So for that person on thatmorning, show out loud.
(49:42):
Now I know they're based inAtlanta, but they are nationwide
, worldwide, because they havean app to say I'm not sad
because he was murdered.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
Here's what I'm saying with that, not condemning
it.
It's America.
You have the freedom of speech.
You can say whatever you wantto say.
You can say whatever you wantto say.
You literally can say whateveryou want to say.
Okay, cool, but I would love tojust say why.
I would just like to ask why.
Why are you satisfied that awoman and two kids are going to
(50:15):
struggle with the rest of theirlife with this situation?
Why does that make you happy?
Because you didn't agree aboutabortion the same way you didn't
agree about transgender, thesame way you didn't believe
about Christianity the same wayI was like, so that makes it
okay why?
I just want to know why.
For me, it's the curiosity ofgoing.
Why are you so angry?
(50:35):
Because there's a lot of peoplein politics I don't agree with.
Yeah, and I don't, but I don'twish harm on anyone, absolutely
not I, I, I'm, I'm excited towhen you, when you see like a
like, I don't, I don't, I'm nota gavin newsom fan, I'm not.
But when he goes on joe roganor he, uh, when charlie kirk
goes on his podcast, and theyhave a kind of like, okay, I,
(50:58):
I'm going to listen and I'lllisten to the guy I want to
learn and he's actually a reallyintriguing guy.
I don't believe all the thingshe believes in, but he's an
intriguing guy.
It's just like.
For me it's like let's go backto the like, let's erase all
those emotions, let's erase allthe craziness, because the fact
we celebrate.
Speaker 2 (51:19):
It is okay to not agree with your neighbor,
neighbor, meaning anybody that'sin your life.
Speaker 1 (51:26):
It is not okay to wish harm upon someone who
doesn't agree with you.
Yeah, how about we just be niceJust?
Speaker 2 (51:35):
freaking.
Live in harmony with oneanother.
It is not that hard.
Speaker 1 (51:39):
Because you know what you can do if you don't agree.
Like the Burt Show now theywere, I mean, as crazy as it was
.
Speaker 2 (51:45):
They were P1 in my car, because they've been in my
truck forever and I know you'relike who cares if you don't
listen.
Speaker 1 (51:53):
And yeah, who cares?
Speaker 2 (51:54):
I hope that us unfollowing and not listening
makes an impact, because thatwas ugly, it was just ugly.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
But at the same time, if I don't want to listen to it
, just don't, I'm not going tolisten to it, I'll just delete
it, do I?
Speaker 2 (52:04):
wish harm upon any of them, absolutely not.
Speaker 1 (52:07):
Lord no.
Speaker 3 (52:07):
Great, am I going to share my?
Speaker 2 (52:09):
opinion yes.
Speaker 1 (52:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:11):
Because would I like for them to reach out?
Yes, will.
Will I have a conversation?
Yes, because I want you tounderstand my point of view and
a person that doesn't agree withthat point of view, just as
much as I would like to hear howyou got there, not what you
said on the radio.
But I want to understandbecause there's a lot of people,
(52:35):
like we said early on, there'sa lot of people in our lives
that we are friends with andhave been friends with over the
years that do not choose thesame lifestyle that we choose.
Does that mean we love them anyless?
Absolutely not.
If they called us tomorrow andsaid I need you to do this, that
and the other, would we do that?
Yes, we would.
I don't.
(52:56):
I don't.
I don't care what you choose inthe privacy of your home.
I truly do not.
I care about you as a personbecause you are my friend, and
my friend means anybody that'slistening okay, so we're, we're
way in.
We are very is so many minutes.
(53:17):
This is the longest episodeprobably ever, yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:21):
Sorry everyone, but can we unpack?
Is there an unpack Like oneunpack?
There's a big unpack for me.
Speaker 2 (53:26):
There's a big unpack and we say it's a big unpack,
it's a short unpack, but it'sbig for you.
I feel like you or all of us,for unpack.
Take a look at the people inyour life, like literally.
Take a minute, think about thepeople in your life.
Are they all just like you?
Speaker 1 (53:49):
Yeah.
Do they think the same way?
Do they look the same?
Speaker 2 (53:55):
way, I lost my mic right there it was a situation
Like are they?
Speaker 1 (53:57):
I mean, have you created this cocoon?
This little bubble whetheryou're liberal or conservative
or whatever you may be, are Imean not?
Even in politics, just like inlife, like you have people, who,
who, who, just think the sameway, act the same way.
You're gonna have those friendsthat are close to you yeah, but
(54:18):
like look past that, like areyou, maybe your?
Speaker 2 (54:21):
secondary bubble.
Yeah, like your, your insidebubble is likely going to be
made up of people who are likeyou.
Look at your outside bubble.
If, if the people even thatoutside, are they all just like
you?
Well, here's a second questionAre you uncomfortable being
around people that are not likeyou?
I feel like that's a bigquestion, because I don't feel
(54:46):
uncomfortable when I'm withpeople that are not like me,
because I'm secure in who I'mrooted in with Christ.
I'm secure in myself, I'msecure in my beliefs, but also I
am secure in knowing that I canlove other people who are not
like me.
I can and I do.
(55:07):
Yeah, that's a huge practice Ifeel like to put into place.
Speaker 1 (55:13):
How about you, michael, what you got?
Speaker 3 (55:17):
A lot of this hits close to me, just specifically
after this last week.
Um, I will say just in honesty,like I've wrestled a lot with
emotions of just everything,especially with charlie kirk
this last week, but and I'mgonna try to keep this short
because I got a lot of thoughtsin my mind, but the first thing
(55:38):
that comes to mind is humbleyourself oh that check yourself
that's hard for a lot of peopleand it is.
It is, it's something you, youhave to practice.
It's something that you have toexercise because if you don't,
when the time comes that youneed to yeah it will be near
impossible to do that's true,but here's the reason it's not
(56:00):
just simply to say oh, justthink less of yourself.
Which I mean, don't get me wrongI think we'd all be in a better
place if we didn't overestimateourselves.
But here's the reason why, andit's not to say don't be
passionate, it's not to saydon't be zealous, have a longing
or a yearning or a fire aboutwhat you believe in, but simply
(56:20):
have enough mental and emotionalawareness within you.
Speaker 2 (56:26):
Maturity.
Speaker 3 (56:27):
Yes, maturity, to sit back and check yourself.
And you ask, am I thinking thisbecause this is just what I
believe in?
Am I thinking this because, youknow, this is the truth that I
stand on?
And if this is the truth that Ihave to stand on, then this is
how I must act Know why you'redoing what you're doing.
(56:50):
And I know we've said thatbefore but so many times because
it leads to this.
So many times, especially whenwe get into conversations with
people we don't agree with, wealways want to prove a point, we
always want to have our pointheard and, you know, have that
last sentence and mic drop.
(57:11):
You know that kind of thing.
But the reality is that thatcomes from our ego, that comes
from our pride, that comes fromus wanting to be better than
yeah.
And I had a dear friend andmentor tell me one time always
strive to make a difference,don't strive to prove a point,
because if you strive to prove apoint, you will and chances are
(57:33):
you proving that point willseparate you and the person
you're talking to.
Speaker 2 (57:37):
And that will make the difference.
Speaker 3 (57:39):
But if you strive to make a difference and you get
connected with them.
Speaker 2 (57:45):
Sorry, I was jumping ahead, you're fine.
Speaker 3 (57:47):
If you strive to make a difference, your point will
eventually be proven, and Ithink so many times we jump too
eagerly and too passionately,and sometimes with a good
passion but, we jump at thewrong place and we we do it in
the wrong time and we try toprove a point and we don't
(58:08):
strive to make a differenceright, because the only thing
well, that's stupid to say, butthe only thing is going to make
a difference is trying toactually like pursuing making a
difference.
And when we do that, I think forme like when I hear everything
we've talked about you know howdo you get to sit down and dig
into the root of what someoneelse believes, even though it's
(58:29):
vastly different from you.
We strive to make a difference,we don't strive to prove our
point right.
And so I would encourage you,wherever you stand, with
everything that's going on rightnow, or whether it be something
completely unrelated, like,check yourself, you know and I
don't say that to beat yourselfdown.
Don't beat yourself down.
You have worth, you have valuein who you are and what you
(58:53):
believe in.
But also, at the same time, weneed to be wise in choosing what
we believe in, because when wedo that, it lets us know what
ground we must stand on and italso lets us know what ground
doesn't make a difference, if welose it or not.
And when we understand thatdifference, what battles are
(59:13):
worth fighting, what argumentsare not worth fighting, then we
can more accurately andintentionally strive to make a
difference in people's lives.
Speaker 1 (59:24):
Well, okay, well, that's it.
Um, I don't want to follow that, but I will because I don't
have a choice.
So, um, I think my unpack is isvery, very simple.
I think it's a very easy onehave a conversation, just sit
down and have a conversation.
Speaker 2 (59:45):
With, no matter who it is.
Speaker 1 (59:47):
Yeah, it doesn't matter who it is, what it's
about, just start talking.
Just start talking to people.
And you're not talking toconvince or persuade anyone.
You're talking because you'recurious.
yeah to understand dig dig intothe curiosity of wanting to know
why people think and act theway they do.
(01:00:07):
Um, if you start with that,you'll, you'll be cute.
It'd be really interestingwhere you wound up.
I just I thought it's a simplething like um, you see someone
sitting by herself in the coffeeshop.
I mean, they may be working,who knows?
Uh, sometimes people just don'twant to be, they don't want to
talk anymore.
Um, they got their headphonesin or not.
(01:00:28):
But it's just like start aconversation.
Who knows where that leads?
Uh, who knows what, whathappens with that and um, but
not in a way of I want them tobelieve the way I do or think
the way I think, but just justbe like I just want to know who
you are, I want to understandwhere you're at.
That's mine.
This is a big topic.
We've been going at it for alittle bit.
It's been a super long episode.
Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
This is the longest.
Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
Yeah, this is the longest one I've ever done, the
longest episode, so please, ifyou've been here this long and
you've listened to the wholething.
Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
Thank you.
Also, can you like drop acomment and just be like hey way
to go.
Like some random emoji, like,whatever it is.
Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
You can text us from either Apple Spotify.
Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
There's a text option in there.
If somebody texts us directly,I would be my pants.
Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
When he texts it, it comes to our show and we'll see
it.
So feel free to do that.
Drop us a DM, like, follow,subscribe.
We're still growing.
We're in 11 countries now, 161cities.
It's kind of crazy.
It's going out there.
Just thank you for sharing.
Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
If you think anybody could, and just thank you for
listening to us talk aboutwhatever.
Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
Yeah, if you think somebody could benefit from this
, please share it.
Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
Please put it out there, um.
Thank you, and we love you.
Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
Yeah, we're working on trying to make it better
every day we are um, we just allhave jobs and it's really slow.
So yeah, it's a situation yeahthis is not our full-time gig no
, it it's not.
Speaker 2 (01:01:58):
And with that, thank you for joining Baggage Claim
and we hope you join us againwhere we can share and love one
another.
Speaker 1 (01:02:07):
That's right, love you guys.
Go Dawgs, go Dawgs, that'sright.
Go Dawgs you.
Hey guys, what's up?
I'm Greg.
I hope you guys are ready tounpack and get into some good
conversations today.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
And I'm Jess, and this is our podcast Baggage
Claim.
Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
What's up everybody, welcome to Baggage Claim, a
place where we like to haveconversations and help create
some community.
A place where we like to haveconversations and help create
some community.
And so, if you're new here,thank you for joining us.
If you're a regular, thanks forbeing back at the table with us
.
So, wherever you're at, ifyou're new, grab your favorite
drink, whatever that may be,kind of proverbially, pull up to
(00:39):
our table.
You may be driving, who knowswhat you're doing wherever
you're at.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
If you're driving, just pretend like.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yeah, pretend you're sitting at the table with us and
we're just going to have aconversation and tonight's topic
is going to be probably alittle heavy.
Yeah, I know, I know, I know, Iknow what you're saying.
You're like bruh.
The last two weeks were prettyheavy too.
Jess's story.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Kind of poured my heart out.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Great, great story.
If you've not listened to thoseon forgiveness Jess's part one
and part two make sure you gocheck those out.
A really, really good, powerfulstory of forgiveness.
But we're going to jump into atopic.
Before we do that, we're goingto do something fun.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Also, can I just say way to go every single week for
doing the intro.
Can I just say way to go everysingle week for doing the intro.
Thank you, you do it well everytime.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
No, thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
I would not.
I will mess it up or giggle orstumble over my words or forget
what I was supposed to say.
Thank you for doing that everytime.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
You're welcome, you nailed it.
It's different every time it is, but it's not Like you say what
we— You're literally from thehip every time.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
But you say it's different every time.
But you always say what weagreed on or talked about, that
we would like to say.
But you do it every time and Ireally appreciate that, because
one time I tried it and wedidn't record it and it was bad.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
I remember that night it got cut.
It did get cut, it was bad, itwas just bad, and so welcome.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Producer Michael is at the table with us tonight.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
It was just bad, and so welcome.
Producer Michael is at thetable with us tonight.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Michael is not behind the desk.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
He is over here with us.
I'm behind the mic stand.
Yes, I have to laugh.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
I don't know why I didn't think of moving this
before.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Because I'm literally like it's stretched all the way
out of me.
My microphone stand is stillattached to our literal table,
but it's literally also like sixinches in front of me.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Yes, yeah, it's very awkward, I have no place to put
my arms.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
I'm like what do I do with my arms?
You can hug her.
How's that?
Yeah, you hug her, that'sperfect.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
I might actually have to do that.
That's cool.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
But we're happy to have you at the table.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Thank you.
So before we get our seriousbig topic tonight, we're going
to do question time.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Question time Question time.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
So we did one with.
We did a dude thing with abuddy of mine, mason and Michael
we're all chatting.
It went off the rails when wetalked about food.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
It went off the rails so far, I didn't mind dude
night because It'll probably bethe last time that the dudes get
the podcast room by themselves.
Y'all got.
It's two episodes worth.
I didn't mind dude night,because I got to go to bed early
, you did, I got to go to bedall by myself and read, and
y'all just were out here havingdude time it was good, it was
fun.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Do you remember that whole thing after, like, we did
question time and we were like,hey, we've got to keep question
time to like five to eightminutes before?
Speaker 2 (03:23):
we can actually get in.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
No, I'm pretty sure we were about 15 minutes in
before we actually got tocontent.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Boys, boys, boys.
It was phenomenal.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
All right, so question time.
Who's first?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
First.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
I don't have one Travesty, that's a travesty,
that's a travesty.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
All right, I have a good question.
Oh wait, no, I just came out ofthe point For you specifically,
who do you think won in fantasyfootball this week?
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Really, that's what we're going with bro.
That's what we're going withGregory At this table At this
table, Gregory.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
At this table Because we happened to match up this
last weekend.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
I already know, because I also am a winner this
week.
Hey-o, I beat our son Thomas byone and a half points.
It was a close one.
A win is a win.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
A win is a win, I'm not taking it away.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
You beat Mr Peck over here.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Hey, can I just say.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
I'm at a tough-, do you remember?
Speaker 3 (04:12):
what the score was, greg Dude.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
I don't care.
Okay, I'm at a tough spot in mylife right now and my fantasy
football.
Hey, shut your mouth.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Reach into our DMs.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
You can reach out to us.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Can you just tell your story so our friends can
feel you want me to?
Speaker 1 (04:36):
let the secret out.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
I don't know if that secret's allowed to be out.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
No one knows, except for Michael.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
I'm comfortable with the secret being out.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
There's skin in the game on this league.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
I'm comfortable with a secret being out, because I
have a really good husband.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Okay, so we joined this fantasy.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
You're very kind to me.
We have a fantasy footballleague.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
It's a relatively serious league.
It's not like over the top.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Yeah, there is some prize money.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yes, and there is a lot of trash talk.
Also, this season is the firstseason girls were invited.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
As I said, we had to vote on that.
We did a private meeting andvoted on it.
What was the whole thing?
Speaker 1 (05:11):
That was, and so we allowed the ladies in.
Thank you sir.
Then what?
Speaker 3 (05:16):
happened, Greg?
We allowed the ladies in.
Then what?
Speaker 1 (05:19):
happened.
Draft night.
We had draft night.
It had to be on a Wednesday at9.45.
It was Wednesday at 1,000o'clock.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
It was at 9.30 on Wednesday, that's 1,000 o'clock.
For any of my friends who areteachers that listen, 9.30 may
as well be 1,000 o'clock,because at that point on a
regular night I've pretty muchbeen asleep for an hour I'm not
rambling.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Jess was in the bed at 7 o'clock.
Draft started at 9.30.
She was asleep by 8.
So I go in there 20 minutesbefore and I say will you please
log into your fantasy footballon the computer?
So I have the iPad on one,which is mine, I have the
computer on one, which is herteam.
I had all the players that Iwanted.
(06:01):
I put them in the queue.
Well, I got confused afterround one and thought I was
drafting my team.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Jess has a really good team.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Jess has a team and it is phenomenal.
Super good team.
Yes, I'm doing great and myteam is crap.
It's almost so bad.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
I just need to, just like I just got to go, start.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
My team is really good.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Yeah, it's really good.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Yeah, like I just gotta go start, my team is
really good.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Yeah, it's really good in my own defense so we
knew ahead of time.
In her own defense, did you putyour roster together?
Speaker 2 (06:34):
no, I didn't do anything but sign in because we
had to wait for you so that wecould have the draft at 1000
o'clock well, it wasn't just me.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
There's multiple people who work late on
Wednesday nights, but I said outloud I had the draft at a
thousand o'clock.
Well, it wasn't just me,there's multiple people who work
late on Wednesday nights.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
I feel like it was just you.
No, it wasn't just me, but Isaid out loud after dinner that
our son and the family they wenthome, took Lulu to bed.
We were cleaning up the kitchen.
I'm like I'm going to go sofast, take a shower, get ready
for bed so I can be ready forthe draft.
I said to Greg I'm going to goand sit in the bed, I'm going to
(07:10):
read Lies.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
They're all lies.
It was not a lie, that was amistake.
It doesn't matter.
You were asleep for a fewminutes.
Five minutes, you were asleep.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
I read, and then the next thing I remember I was
asleep on my side with the bookstill in my hand, and usually
this wouldn't be a sore subjectwith me.
I don't care If you want to goto bed at 7 o'clock go to bed at
7 o'clock, but not on draftnight.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
I know, but not when I'm trying to draft my team and
I draft my team as your team.
I'm a little bitter.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Yeah, I'm frustrated a little bit, as you should be.
And I'm not denying that Crossthe finish line for the next 15
weeks and try to make something,because the complete opposite
situation was our collegefootball draft night, where we
were all in, literally all inthe same room.
It was dinner, it was a wholething, and that's what we have
(07:56):
to do next year and not workaround your schedule at 1,000
o'clock.
It has to be another differentnight where I can be awake.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
It's easier for me.
For professional, I can playoff the athlete.
When it comes to college, Ihave teams that I just like and
teams I hate.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
And teams you trust and teams you can't trust.
I was going only by stats oncollege football I did not pick.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
I picked off, my heart picked, not my mind.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Even my college football fantasy team is great.
I am so great.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Blah, blah, blah.
So good, and I picked thoseguys by myself.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
I asked you two questions that whole night.
Thank, you.
Well, you won and Thomas won.
I don't even know.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Anyway, let's move along because this is a sore
subject.
Did we have another question?
I don.
We have another question?
Speaker 2 (08:46):
I don't want another question.
I just kind of threw us therein a fit.
Yeah, it was horrible.
Okay, here's a weird question.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
That was very like.
Yeah now I'm just kind of sadright now Go for it, Jess.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Usually it's like are you this or are you that?
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
My question is flip-flops when you wear them,
do they actually flip and flop?
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Yes, if you're on the beach in sand, yes, they do
flip and flop.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yours were flipping and flopping on the way in here.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
That's how I came up with this question.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
If it's wet, they flip and flop.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
And they also go.
That's not a flip-flop sound,though.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
It's kind of fun when it's got that squishy noise.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Yeah, yeah I kind of like it.
I don't know Especially likethose little cheap ones you get
like for just summer trips orsomething.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Well, I say y'all.
We have people listening in somany countries now I'm saying
y'all, but people who live.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
That means everyone, it means you all, yeah, you all.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
But where we live, old Navy is a store and every
summer they sell cheapflip-flops.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Yep, I buy a new pair every summer.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
So do I typically, and I had on my cheap—.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
I don't.
I have nice flip-flops $1.99flip-flops.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
You do have nice flip-flops I don't think I own a
single good pair of flip-flops.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
He only, I just don't .
This man.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
I have three pair and they're really nice.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Well, he has very specific things that he spends
money on, and clothing and shoesare two of those things, and
weird appliances.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Anyway, don't bring the microwave into this.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Okay, their microwave is like we're living in the
Jetsons.
I just have to say you pressthe button and it goes.
It's a drawer microwave.
It pulls out.
It's kind of fun.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
So I have a question when you go into, say you're
just lounging at the house, okay, do you wear your shoes or
shoes off?
House shoes.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
House shoes.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Like slippers.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yes, really, you know I wear house shoes Team for the
win Like slippers.
Yes, really, you know I wearhouse shoes.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
I have different house shoes for summer versus
winter, versus fall.
I don't have one.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
You know, I have my little pile of house shoes, well
, and mind you also, mine islike that concrete slab, so like
the floor can get cold even insummer.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
So I'll just I say you know, but I do that anyways,
even when I wasn't there.
I would assume you would havenoticed that I wear house shoes.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
If you get on to me like I'll come home, sometimes
I'll have blue jeans and myboots on and you will wear your
world clothes.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
You're outside in the world clothes your world
clothes.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Forever, yeah, I wear them around the house because
it's comfortable.
I'm like why We've been homefrom church for three hours and
you're still wearing your nicejeans, your nice shirt and your
boots.
That stuff's coming off themoment I get in the house.
Yes, it is, yeah, I love myboots.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
They're comfortable.
My tecova's boots arecomfortable.
Well, I yeah, and they areworth the money.
I will agree with that I sawthis thing that said that as
soon as I get home I go from myoutside in the world clothes to
adam sandler as fast as possible.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Yes, absolutely, that's me.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
That is me.
That is me.
We will come home and he willsay I'm going to go let the dogs
out and I'll say, okay, I'mgoing to go use the restroom,
but by the time I come out I'mgoing to go completely different
Bag his sweatpants and hisshirt and ears down.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
I'm like, did you take a nap?
Speaker 3 (12:02):
while I was outside down I'm like did you take a nap
while I was outside?
Yep, yeah, it's crazy.
I love it.
No, when you're at home.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
You gotta chill man.
Yeah, I'm like this is mycomfort zone.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
So let's jump into our topic, all right, because
we're we're ranting and ravingit.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
I feel like me personally, I'm kind of dancing
around in the fun category ofwhat we're talking about
beforehand, because this wasgoing to be harder than yeah,
and so this was going to beharder than.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Yeah, and so this is going to be one of those topics
where we may get a littlepassionate.
We may have to call each otheroff the cliff a little bit and
back each other up, take a break, well, I mean, and even in
following, like, if you'velistened, like the two episodes
where I've told my story aboutforgiveness, and that's hard.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
But I feel like I'm kind of removed from that unless
I get back in and talk about it.
But this topic is very current.
We're in the middle ofSeptember right now and there's
been a lot of things that'shappened in our country and so
this just kind of feels—this isheavy.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Well, last week, the whole idea of— and what sparked
this whole conversation is lastWednesday, Charlie Kirk was shot
and killed and it was one ofthose kind of I was on the job
site working, thomas was someone.
We were all different places.
Thomas was at the fire station,and so I jumped in the group
text and just was like did y'allsee this?
Because it literally just camethrough my phone.
(13:25):
I was listening to something.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
And we're mentioning that you were doing this and
Thomas was doing that, becausewhere we first started talking
about was in our group text.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
With us.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Our son and our daughter-in-law is where this
kind of started out and then Ijust got heavy, heavy, and so
that just, and there was a lotof emotion, a lot of, and we
actually said we want to recordon this and I'm actually glad
it's almost a week removed.
I am because I got really umyeah, just got really upset and
(13:56):
I think there were a lot ofpeople who jumped on and
probably said some things maybe,and I don't, I don't, I don't
want tonight to be.
Tonight is not a Baggage.
Claim is not a place aboutpolitical we're not talking
about politics.
This has nothing to do withthat.
We're not talking about.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
We're still sticking to creating conversations and
community, because that's who weare.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
And so the idea for us is to and the conversation
just come up like where are weat in the world?
Like it was, it was incrediblysad.
But and I never met him, so Ididn't know him personally I had
watched a lot of his stuff,even when he went on Gavin
(14:40):
Newsom's podcast, which I wasintrigued by.
That All the other podcasts Iwas just a fan of his because I
thought he was a veryinteresting guy.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
He was very like, talked to anyone about anything,
and so that was intriguing tome and you could believe in how
he stuck to his convictions,very respectfully.
Yeah, whether you agree withthat or not.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Yeah, whether you agree with him or not.
That's not even what we'retalking about tonight.
It's not like, hey, if youbelieve with him, then jump on
our bandwagon or this bandwagon.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
This is not a pro-Charlie Kirk conversation,
but this is where this spurredout of.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Yeah, well, and I think many times, like even in
relationships and friendships,we are never going to agree.
And if we do agree, oneverything, if we agree on
everything, then what fun isthat?
Speaker 1 (15:33):
You know well, jess and I are married and we've been
married for 13 years, andthere's some things we don't,
yeah, next month we don't agreeon Like there's some things we
would probably be like we justsee things different, like we
just see and that's okay.
And so I think for that that'sthe idea I want us to dig into
(15:54):
is the idea of hope.
I want us to dig into the ideaof hate, why why are we hating?
Why aren't we acting the waywe're acting?
Why are we at a place where wecan't have conversations?
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
And let's maybe okay.
So for me I told Jess it waslike every conversation and this
is one of those facilitatingthings I go through every
conversation for me is a what?
So?
What now?
What?
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Slow down, slow down.
Say that again.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
So it's a what so.
What now?
What so?
It's the whole idea of whatjust happened.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
So what do we do with it?
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Yeah.
So what does that mean for me?
What is that?
What are we?
And so what are the feelingsattached to that?
And then it's the now.
What?
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Now, what am I going to do with?
Speaker 1 (16:36):
that Now, what does that mean for me?
And so it's a process of justbreaking down situations.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
I'm sorry, I'm teachering you, but you just
breezed through that.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
You did say that real fast, yeah, and smart like you
sounded really smart.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
That's the thing.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
I've been practicing for years.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Literally, you have and that's what I was going to
say Like you breezed throughthat, which is why I wanted to
make you slow down a little bit,because not well, you are
trained to help people thinkthrough that.
You're trained in facilitating,and so, like regular, everyday
people, we don't think like that, and so that's a very big skill
(17:14):
.
I think that is important inthis whole conversation that
we're having tonight.
It was like okay, so where arewe at, what's happening, and so
we can dissect that, and ittakes time, and then so what are
we gonna do now?
Then that takes a little bit oftime, and then now, what do we
(17:36):
do to move forward?
So I don't want you to breezethrough that like your thought.
No, and honestly, because I'venot heard.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Even in the time we've been together, I've not
heard you say it like that.
Lay that out, because I thinkone of the things we were
talking about earlier is it's soeasy that, especially when
there's something you'repassionate about that, you get
emotional about it, right?
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
Those three questions right there help you check your
emotions.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
They do Right.
Well, it's to help you processyour emotions.
Yes, very much so yeah emotionsare not like in something like
this.
It's a highly emotional thing.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
And I don't for me I don't get caught on the Charlie
aspect.
I like the guy because he spokelike he was just clear in what
he said.
He was just very clear.
But there's a part of me thatjust gets caught on the.
He was a dad, he was a husbandand he was just a guy chasing
(18:33):
his dream.
He was just chasing his dreams.
That's what he was doing.
I don't and that's hard for me,like when I look at it from
that way that's what kind ofjust unsettled me, and so I had
to process those emotions in away of going okay, how do we do
this in a healthy way that'sconstructive and good?
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Now, aside from what happened to him, that's how you
look at pretty much everything.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
And you've helped me look at things like that.
It's just kind of like, don'tget so caught up in your emotion
, like, let's, let's understandhow we feel.
How do we get there?
And then now, what do we do?
Yeah, and and that's important,regardless of the tragedy that
(19:21):
take, you know if we can putthat aside in a different
category for now, but it's theunderstanding where your thought
process comes from I'm always,and that's the thing for me in
this I'm like I may.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
It baffles me, it really does it, just it.
It shocks me when people arenot willing to just sit down and
have a conversation.
Yeah, like, because I am such aconversation people guy Like I
enjoy.
I actually thrive on chattingwith people who don't act like
me, think like me, who live inthe same world as me.
(19:59):
Like, I want to know, becauseI'm just curious of how did you
get to where you're at?
How did you arrive at thisplace where you're at?
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Well, I mean, that goes back for your own self.
When you were in college, yourmajor was sociology.
Like, you wanted to studypeople from a very young age and
sadly there's a lot of peoplethat you know we all go into
different walks of life.
There's a lot of people thatyou know we all go into
different walks of life.
But I think that a big thing isthat people forget to like,
(20:31):
study each other, like it's okayto figure out each other as you
go through life, because if youcan't do that, then what are we
doing?
Like, regardless of whatprofession you take or what walk
of life you're in, like, if youcan't appreciate and understand
and try to walk alongside otherpeople, then what are you doing
(20:54):
?
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Yeah, yeah, I remember one of the I mean one
of the.
A great relationship I used tohave was Dr Ottingertinger was
in college and he was an atheistand he used to go and just have
, just sit down and I would justhave conversations with I was a
Christian, I was I'd justbecome a Christian and I was a
(21:16):
believer and we would just haveconversations.
I was just so curious how hedidn't believe in anything.
He's like I'm atheist, I don'tbelieve in anything.
I was like how did this happen?
Like please tell me how you gotthere.
And we were just I was reallyjust curious, not in a like
you're an idiot, you're wrong,not an accusatory way.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
No, I was just so curious.
A learning way.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Yeah Right, Just be like I want to know how you got,
because please help me and sowe would talk.
I mean, we had greatconversations around that and it
just seems so sad that we've Ifeel like we've gotten to a
place where we don't do thatanymore.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Like that's frowned upon, I would agree.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
And I don't understand why.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Well, and it's almost as if it's like you say okay,
well, you believe that, so youstay over there, I believe this,
so I'll stay over here, andthen we just don't interact,
right, you know.
And then and I'm not trying toget into media and all that
stuff but then things happen andthen people get more entrenched
in their own ideals and theirown values and it only separates
that gap more it does.
(22:16):
And when you look at allrelationships, I mean just yeah,
I know we talk a lot aboutmarriage relationships and that
here.
So when you look in terms ofthat, it can be so easy to let
that be something that separatesyou, especially if it's
something that you're passionateabout or it's something that
brings up emotion for you.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Well, I will say I mean, greg and I are not perfect
and we have said this all alongthis is our episode number 32.
That's right.
That's wild 32 episodes.
We've tried to make it veryclear that we know that we are
not perfect, but I know that thetime that you and I have been
together, we have hadrelationships with people that
(22:58):
we truly, truly, truly careabout, that do not have the same
belief system that we have, andthey have a very different way
of doing family andrelationships, whatever the case
may be, but we love them as ahuman being and person.
(23:18):
And so those folks in our life,they know that.
So that when we are able to,and we have sat down with them
and just be like, help meunderstand how you got here.
Let me use a Greg Peck phraseHelp me understand how we got
here.
I want to know your thoughtprocess that led you to where
(23:39):
you are right now.
And that doesn't mean I'm goingto love you less, and that
doesn't mean I'm going to startjudging you all of a sudden, it
actually means I'll probablylove you more.
I will agree with that, becausethose same folks are still very
important in our hearts.
Yeah, and so I.
I think that I personalexperience on my side, because
(24:06):
there's been such a vast amountof experience for me and you
both it's just kind of like whycan everybody not be like that?
Speaker 1 (24:14):
be like what accepting.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
and that kind of leads us to what we and I hate
to use this word, I just said itbut what we were wanting to
talk about tonight and we are soit, but what we wanted to talk
about tonight and we are so farinto this episode before we even
talk about, like the subjectmatter, but we kind of like the
word hate.
It just feels it's a heavy wordbut also, given what's
(24:41):
happening in our country rightnow and actions that people are
taking against each other,whether they are on one extreme
or another, hate is such a bigthing right now.
Yeah, would y'all agree?
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Yeah, yes, I agree, and my family can attest to this
.
I agree, and my family canattest to this.
I love information, I lovelearning, I love just hearing,
and so I would turn on everymorning.
When the kids were small, I'dturn on the news and I couldn't
(25:19):
stand some of the guys on CNN,so I'd turn on Fox.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Yeah, all four of our children would say that's the
soundtrack to their childhood.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
They would agree so.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
I was listening to Fox News for a long time and
then I just I found myselffeeling like, okay, you're
saying the same crap and I wouldjust get so aggravated.
And I was, so I would start myday and I was all riled up and
angry and mad and I told Jess Iwas like you know what, I'm just
going to stop watching the newsin the morning, like I'm not
going to do that anymore.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
That was a big shift in our house.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
And I was just she's like what are you going to do?
And I was like I don't know,but I'm not watching the news.
Yeah, it changed.
It changed your thought.
Yeah, felt the way I thought,the way I saw the world, the way
I saw people, because when I'mlooking at media or news outlets
, they're telling me the worldis going to hell.
In a handbasket it's on fire.
(26:13):
Grab a water hose and I'm likeyeah.
I look out my window and I'mlike it looks okay to me we're
okay, yeah, it's like I don'tunderstand what you're talking
about and so it's like becausethose things sell, you know
sizzle sales, and so it's.
And there's a part of me islike I just don't want that and
so I just I cut that out.
But it's like look at your foryou page on your Facebook, your
(26:37):
Instagram your TikTok.
It's TikTok that has a for youpage, yeah, but well, I mean,
they all kind of have a for youpage.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
You don't call it that, that's true.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
The algorithm.
You don't call it that, that'strue, but the algorithm, yeah.
The algorithm knows what youwant and what you want to see,
and you it's.
It's feeding you the same kindof stuff over and over and over
and over again but do you feellike it's feeding you negative
or positive?
Speaker 2 (26:58):
you know?
Speaker 1 (26:58):
okay, I watched this weird.
I got in this weird cop thingone time and I watched this like
cops, like you know, bad copthing, blah, blah.
And it's like all of a suddenmy for you page is full of it
and I was like I don't want tosee that crap.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
I know it's like one video catches your attention.
Yeah, it's like can I reset, doI?
Speaker 2 (27:14):
have a reset button one time I was interested in
that.
That doesn't mean that's allI'm interested in.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Yeah and so it's a.
I think, if we look at what, somany times we look at our lives
and be like what are we puttinginto it, like what are we
actually digesting, and thinkingabout and listening to, yeah.
Like I love him to death.
Cody, our son.
He's an incredibly smart kid.
Incredibly smart kid, smarterthan he even knows.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
He's number three in the lineup.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Yes, Went to UGA, got into Terry school of business,
graduated, did great, made greatgrades, and we started talking
about politics.
On the beach we're havingdrinks and we're talking about
politics, and we were totallyopposites.
And I was like okay, so tell mehow you got there.
And he goes well, so-and-so isa racist, and they're this.
(28:05):
And I was like okay, so tell mehow you got there.
And he goes well, so-and-so isa racist, and they're this.
And I was like really, tell meone time.
You like tell me somethingabout that.
And he was like okay, well,wait a minute.
And so we started talking andit was just, it was interesting.
It was like do you think someof your views you have have to
do with where you've been inschool?
And he's like yeah, it's fairto say, oh, he was 100%.
(28:29):
Yes, yeah, he's like yeah, ofcourse it has to.
And I was like yeah, I wouldagree with that.
I was like because myenvironment has everything to do
with the way I think and theway I feel, yeah, I was like
you're not, you're not, I'm notabsent of that just because I'm
not in college.
But the same thing is is somuch we put into and we digest
and we take it in, but itaffects what comes out, how we
think about people, how we lookat people and there's not many
(28:50):
people out there going.
Why don't you look at theperson across from you and go?
That's a person that hasexperiences, that probably has a
mom or had a dad at some pointand had someone who loves them.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Experiences and thoughts and things that they
actually went through to getthem to where they are.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Yeah, things they're passionate about.
They're chasing a dream.
They're chasing something.
They're looking for purpose.
They're looking for thosethings.
It's like they're looking for areason for why they're here.
It's like why not look atpeople that way instead of well,
if you don't agree with thesame political views I have, or
the same things I have.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Well, it's turned into a.
If you don't agree with me,then you're against me.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Yes, and it shouldn't be that way.
No, it shouldn't be that way atall.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
No because what kind of world would that be, Michael,
when you have a world full ofpeople?
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Yeah, everybody would be against everybody, yeah, or
a world that looks just like you.
I mean honestly I promise, ifyou put, two of me identical
side by side.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
We'd disagree on something.
Yeah, Like we would like in likerealistically and I think most
people, if they were honest withthemselves, would probably get
to that point at some time butjust because you disagree with
someone doesn't mean you can'tlove them, doesn't mean you
can't care for them.
But that mindset of if youdisagree with me, that means
you're against me, that startseating away at that.
(30:00):
Hey, I still love you.
And then it goes away to, ohwow, I really don't love you,
can you just stay over there?
And then it turns into oh man,I really don't like you.
And then it turns into oh man,I actually hate you.
And it's like this, step afterstep after step, that we could
be fighting against as acommunity, as, whether it be a
(30:21):
family or anything like that, itcould just simply be hey, I can
disagree with you, but I canstill love you.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
And as much as I am trying to dance around the word
hate, but that's where it goesto.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
It is.
That's where it ends up.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
That is the process where it ends up at as hate.
If you don't watch it and keepyourself in check, keep your
emotions in check.
It does go to hate.
Why, though, why do you thinkit's so hard to get along with
people that are not like you,like your own self?
Why do you think that's hard?
Because it is, apparently, canI?
Speaker 3 (30:56):
go biblical, you can.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Why did Cain?
Speaker 3 (30:58):
kill Abel.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Because he was jealous.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
He wanted what he had .
It's a nature.
That's who we are.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
But see, that's a, it's a nature, that's who we are
, but see, that's a self thing.
Yeah, yes it's ourself that'sflesh.
Like there's me.
Like I don't.
Like it's not uncomfortable forme to hang out with people who
are different.
Like I want to do this thingand I told jess about it.
Like I want to have this dinner, and maybe at our house or
somewhere else, but I'm brokebroke as a convict right now, so
I can't do it but.
(31:27):
I want to, but I want to invite12 guys that are from different
walks of life.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
If you're listening and you want to be a part of
this, perk your ears up.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
This is really cool.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
I know what he's about to share and you will be,
but I want to invite 12 guysaround the table and we're going
to have and there'll bequestions at their table, at
their seat, and you get to talkabout.
The whole idea is you want tolook for the best in the people
(31:59):
that are sitting around thetable with you, but you are
going to talk about who you arewithout telling people what you
do.
As a guy Like you just get totalk about hard for men.
It's very hard for men.
But in the same idea, I wantlike hey, I don't want 12 people
who look at and sound like meand believe the same way I was.
Like I want vast difference,like I want people to be able to
(32:23):
sit at the table.
Because when I think about itand this is the biblical sense
for me I have a tattoo of atable on my arm, because this is
like when you think about, ifyou read the Bible and you think
about Jesus how many times?
did he meet with people wasaround a table, people who
didn't look like him, act likehim, sounded like him, with
(32:44):
prostitutes, with tax collectors, with the lowest of the lows
and the highest of the highs.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Heck, even his disciples were the lowest of the
low, but he sat at the tablewith them and he shared a meal.
And shared his life.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Yeah, and it was like that's that man, if I'm like
dude, if we can do that, if wecan just start there and just be
like we're all men, let'srespect each other.
Just for you're at the table, Igot respect for you for being
at this table and having aconversation.
I don't care if you think theway I do, believe the way I do.
I just want to say I respectyou for being here.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
I feel like that's just a very human it.
Well it should be, I.
I feel like it should be a veryhuman point of view, because we
are not all alike.
And so that's just a very basicof just humanity.
And then us as Christians, youand I and Michael you add the
(33:39):
Jesus layer, because that isliterally like you said Jesus
ate with and he hung out withand served and listened to
people who were not like him atall.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
No no.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
And I agree with you I don't.
I don't want to be surroundedby people who are just like me.
Does it help?
Yes, of course it does.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Well, it's easy, it's comfortable.
Yeah, yeah, it's comfortable.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
But also if you're only around people who are
exactly like you, that doesn'tchallenge you at all.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
It doesn't challenge you at all.
It doesn't challenge you to belike okay, why do I believe what
I believe?
I think you ought to be able toanswer that question, I don't
care where you're at.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
I do too On the spectrum.
I don't care what you believe.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Christian, non-christian, whatever Buddhist
, hindu, I don't know Christian.
Know what you believe and whyyou believe it Like.
Know that.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Because different doesn't equal bad all the time.
No, it really doesn't.
No, it doesn't, no it doesn't.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
So how do you, if I may, pose a question?
You know, when it comes up towhether it be disagreement in
marriage or politics or anything, Okay, and it is something
that's a really big marriage,well, no, well, I'm saying just
disagreements in general,whatever it may be.
When you do have that emotionalside of it's just hard to
(34:50):
communicate, it's hard to notget angry, even in debate or
conversation.
What do you do that helps yousit down to actually have that
conversation?
Because we're sitting heretalking about hey, we can't stop
having conversation, we can'tstop getting to know people who
are different.
What do you do when that's hard?
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Well, I have learned a lot about that through Greg,
so that's kind of my cheat sheet, but it's not necessarily about
agreeing, it's more of anunderstanding it's I want.
(35:32):
Well, now I say now we've beentogether for 13 years but you
can stop saying that okay, Ihave learned that the more
important thing is not I needyou to agree with me.
The more important thing shouldbe in my opinion, I want to
understand you and at the end ofthe understanding part, you, I
(35:55):
want you to understand me too.
But that doesn't equal.
We're going to agree.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
I just I want.
I want to know where you'recoming from and for you, for you
to explain that you are goingto have to have a solid
foundation of where that camefrom.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
I think everything has a source, Everything has a
root.
I'll say that all the time.
Like it's like anything else,like a massive tree is big oak.
It has roots and those roots godeep and the bigger the tree,
the deeper the roots are yeah um, and so it's.
It's in the same sense of thestronger the passion, the bigger
(36:34):
the belief.
There's a root somewhere andthat started with something look
for the root yeah, for me I'mlike where's the source of that?
like, oh, that's the source ofthat anger that frustration that
that, wherever that may be Forme, when I'm having a
conversation with someone,there's a curiosity about it to
(36:54):
make me want to say where doesthat come from?
When I say help me understand,I'm basically saying I'm going
to questions to realize how didyou arrive at the point where
you arrived?
And we're going to go backwardsand try to find out where that
started at.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Because I'm really curious where that is.
So I will say that, that phrase.
You'll hear us say that a lotof the help me understand and
you may think, oh my God if yousay that one more time.
But that's really true.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
If you start using that in your life, it will
change the way you look atconversations, no matter what
relationship it is, and I bet ifyou use that more in your life,
you'll find yourself growingmore and more too Right.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
So you said, recognize the source.
So a friend of mine from workposted this actually today.
That I thought was fascinating.
It says if you put 100 blackants and 100 red ants in a jar,
nothing will happen.
But if you shake the jar, theants will start killing each
(37:58):
other.
Red will believe black is theirenemy, while black will believe
red is their enemy, when thereal enemy is the person who
shook the jar.
Same is also true in oursociety.
Before we fight with each other, we have to ask ourselves who
shook the jar.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
It's like where did the actual root of the
disagreement come from?
Yeah, or not even disagreementof just the miscommunication.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Because I believe that's what it is.
It's just that anger, becauseif you dig down deep into that
and you really, really want toknow, it's like, hey, tell me
where that anger and thatfrustration comes from.
Because, dude, we're alldifferent, we all grew up
differently, we all haddifferent parents.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
The three of us sitting here at this table?
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Yes, completely different, all three of us
vastly different, vastlydifferent and so it's like I
don't see, it's just, it's justinteresting.
Like in my life I grew up wherethere was a lot of um, violence
was a normal thing, like um itreally was.
And then I got into kickboxingand and and karate and I did
that for a little while, which Ithought it was, and then I just
(39:08):
became really good at fightingbut I realized this isn't
helping me, I don't need to dothis, and so I finally kind of
bowed out of that, which it justlike violence was never a way
for me to.
It just seemed like a very, veryshallow way of expressing any
kind of emotion.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
But then for Michael you grew up completely different
than that.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
Yeah, quite different Homeschooled Right, right,
worked family business, thatkind of thing Right.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
And then my own self.
I grew up completely differentthan that, but both my parents
didn't divorce.
I was a grown and like, butthen there was like some alcohol
and then there was a change inthat and it was just like so
many moving parts of justdysfunction and miscommunication
, but there was never violenceinvolved and so, like, if we all
(40:00):
look at all the things of we'realthough the three of us are
really good friends andobviously you and I are married
we're pretty good friends, yeah,and so I think so but like we
are all very, very different andhow we have arrived at who we
are and the opinions that wehave, yeah, like I love having
conversations with Michaelsometimes about his life and
(40:23):
growing up and how he thinks,the way he thinks and the way
and it really does, Because Imean, there was a lot of
violence.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
It was my dad's side of the family.
My mom's side was just they'rejust good old, they're just
great people, Loving sweet mymom.
If it weren't for my mom, Godknows where I would be in life,
but it's like you would be injail Probably.
Yeah, Like permanently, yeah,and so it's a.
But there's a curiosity for meto be like Michael.
(40:50):
Why do you think that way?
Because you grew up in church,Like you've been around church
your entire life.
Both of you have.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
Yeah, we have.
My dad was a pastor.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
I don't know if you know, like when I was younger,
my dad was a pastor, I do knowto the package store on Sundays
because I would get popcorn whenwe would go to the drive-thru,
when we go to the bootlegger,because you couldn't buy beer on
Sunday when I was a kid.
Yeah, and I was excited to goget popcorn from the bootlegger.
So like that's the life we grewup in.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
You know it's like okay, cool.
Would you guys agree that, like, as we're trying to move
forward in the country that welive in today, because I do feel
like there's kind of a strongresurgence of a lot of things,
Would you agree with that?
Speaker 3 (41:33):
Yeah, I would agree.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
So I feel like kind of the first thing that we
should do, maybe like checkyourself, like let's think about
like know why you believe whatyou believe, and it's okay to
look outside your own bubble,yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
Yeah, Well, and for me, like we're talking about
disagreements, trying to findyou know, yeah, we're vastly
different, but we still have somuch in common.
I don't know why.
Call it whatever you want, Callit, whatever you want, but it's
almost as if everything insociety, instagram, tiktok,
(42:11):
everything we're always findingand looking at our differences.
Yeah, and don't get me wrong,there are some things about our
differences that we should beproud of.
Yeah, like own your heritage,own so much of that, but also,
at the same time, I think welose sight of what we have in
common.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:29):
We lose sight of the fact that realistically, we may
have opposing views, but if wedig down at the root, we find
the source.
We actually care about the samethings.
Yeah, we want to see the sameend results.
Yeah, and so I think that, ifwe can and that's where I look
at when I think of check myselfit's okay.
(42:49):
First off, check myself,because why in the world does
everyone feel like their opinionis the right opinion Right, and
I say this to myself I have tocheck myself because so many
times I feel like, well, that'smy opinion and that's what's
right, because that's why Ithink that's what's right.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Well, there's a difference between my opinion
and my emotions, so I feel likeyou have to be able to like kind
of deconstruct your emotions tofigure out like, where am I at?
Like, let's learn to separatefact from fiction I mean
honestly, I hate to say it thatway but fact from emotion,
(43:27):
because a lot of emotion isbased on fiction and narrative
that you build in your own headversus like no, really, are we
like at the basis of where we'reat?
Do we agree on the very root ofwhere we're at?
Speaker 3 (43:42):
Yeah.
And a lot of times, like yousaid, yes, we do, we truly do
yeah, and a lot of times, likeyou said, yes, we do, we truly
do.
Well, and the thing is when,when you dig down and you
understand why I believe what Ibelieve, um, it gives you a
foundation.
But what's important in that is, yes, you should constantly be
asking, learning more and moreabout other things, but if you
(44:03):
don't have a foundation of whyyou believe in what you believe,
you know, for me, god, truth,the Bible, it's rooted in one
thing and that's Jesus Christ.
But if I'm not rooted, I couldbe easily tossed around and
thrown around.
My beliefs change every otherweek you know that kind of thing
.
But when you know what you'rerooted in, you can in confidence
(44:24):
hear what other people disagreeand not be so worked up yeah,
over it yeah
Speaker 1 (44:30):
because you know I think what breaks my heart, and
it really does break my heart.
And then there's this wholelike, if you've been on social
media, you've seen this crap ofpeople who are celebrating and
are excited about theassassination of a man, a
husband and a father.
Yeah, and so there's a part ofme that's just like okay, just
(44:54):
because you don't agree, how doyou celebrate the death of a guy
who just shared he wasn't aboutviolence.
No, he wasn't about anger,frustration, hatred.
Listen to his podcast, to hisdon't listen to your peers.
Listen to him, just go listen toit, um, and just the the idea
(45:16):
of a guy who's just even even ifyou don't agree with what he
says he's just sharing histhoughts and his opinions.
No one.
Why is it that we have peoplewho feel like, oh well, he
deserved it?
Let me tell you, I live in ahousehold with two kids who lost
their dad, and it's 15 yearslater.
(45:37):
I don't care who you are.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
That makes a mark on kids.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
It will make a mark on his kids' lives and his kids'
lives will grow up with thatpain and they'll carry that with
them and they'll deal with that.
His wife will deal with that.
She'll have to move on, and foryou to sit and say I don't care
about that, I don't care abouther.
Speaker 3 (45:57):
It's just mean.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
You need to dig deep in your heart and go.
Why do I?
Speaker 1 (46:04):
feel that way.
It's just plain old.
Mean yeah, why do I feel thatway?
It's just plain old, mean yeah,I don't get that Like that
doesn't?
I don't understand that leveland I would love to talk with
someone who has Even I mean, Iwill say it Like even a show
that the Bird Show here inAtlanta.
I know they don't ever listento this, but at the same time,
(46:28):
it's a show that I've beenlistening to literally since my
kids were babies.
I would listen to this all theway on the ride home.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
I've been listening to that show since I was in high
school.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Yeah, forever.
Well, they get on there andthey're just having a
conversation, but then they gointo this bashing session and
basically just saying I'm notsad that he B, I'm not sad that
he.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
Bert, the host and owner of the show.
He started off well and he wasjust talking about how his heart
felt heavy for where things arein our country and there's such
a divide and he started offwell and then he said I don't
know if who you know, if youknow who Charlie Kirk is or was,
(47:09):
and they kind of brieflyexplained that you know he had
passed away the day before andhe was like he's a political
activist, he's a Christian andhe promoted like debates and
nonviolent activism and allthose things.
He started off strong.
Then the other women on theshow kind of took over the
(47:37):
conversation and they went very,very negative and they were
calling Now this is an opinionand I appreciate that's their
opinion.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
Right.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
Now, this is an opinion and I appreciate that's
their opinion, right.
What I don't appreciate is thatthey did not take into account
that the audience that waslistening may not share their
opinion.
They name, called, theycategorized him in a very
negative way, a lot of negativethings.
(48:09):
And then the last person thatspoke up I'm not going to say
her name because I don't want togive her any satisfaction she
said that she was not sad, thatshe was satisfied that he lost
his life because of his beliefs.
She didn't take into accountthat he was a 31-year-old man
(48:30):
that was killed for standing upfor what he believed in, for
positive matters, didn't takeinto account that his wife is
now a widow.
She did not take into accountthat his two children will grow
up without their biologicalfather and their his influence
(48:50):
in their life.
And she said I am not sad, he'sdead, and that is wrong.
I don't care who you are.
That is wrong.
Yeah, and I know that I amcoming from a very personal
passionate place.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
It did hit you in a very personal because—.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
And I messaged that morning show.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
When DJ passed away he was 31.
Same age, 31 years old, and sothat hit home with you.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
Was he murdered?
No.
Was he a political activist?
No.
But was he a Christian fatherand a Christian husband who
stood for the right things in abiblical opinion?
Yes.
Would he have aligned with whatCharlie Kirk was doing?
Yes.
So for that person on thatmorning, show out loud.
(49:42):
Now I know they're based inAtlanta, but they are nationwide
, worldwide, because they havean app to say I'm not sad
because he was murdered.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
Here's what I'm saying with that, not condemning
it.
It's America.
You have the freedom of speech.
You can say whatever you wantto say.
You can say whatever you wantto say.
You literally can say whateveryou want to say.
Okay, cool, but I would love tojust say why.
I would just like to ask why.
Why are you satisfied that awoman and two kids are going to
(50:15):
struggle with the rest of theirlife with this situation?
Why does that make you happy?
Because you didn't agree aboutabortion the same way you didn't
agree about transgender, thesame way you didn't believe
about Christianity the same wayI was like, so that makes it
okay why?
I just want to know why.
For me, it's the curiosity ofgoing.
Why are you so angry?
(50:35):
Because there's a lot of peoplein politics I don't agree with.
Yeah, and I don't, but I don'twish harm on anyone, absolutely
not I, I, I'm, I'm excited towhen you, when you see like a
like, I don't, I don't, I'm nota gavin newsom fan, I'm not.
But when he goes on joe roganor he, uh, when charlie kirk
goes on his podcast, and theyhave a kind of like, okay, I,
(50:58):
I'm going to listen and I'lllisten to the guy I want to
learn and he's actually a reallyintriguing guy.
I don't believe all the thingshe believes in, but he's an
intriguing guy.
It's just like.
For me it's like let's go backto the like, let's erase all
those emotions, let's erase allthe craziness, because the fact
we celebrate.
Speaker 2 (51:19):
It is okay to not agree with your neighbor,
neighbor, meaning anybody that'sin your life.
Speaker 1 (51:26):
It is not okay to wish harm upon someone who
doesn't agree with you.
Yeah, how about we just be niceJust?
Speaker 2 (51:35):
freaking.
Live in harmony with oneanother.
It is not that hard.
Speaker 1 (51:39):
Because you know what you can do if you don't agree.
Like the Burt Show now theywere, I mean, as crazy as it was
.
Speaker 2 (51:45):
They were P1 in my car, because they've been in my
truck forever and I know you'relike who cares if you don't
listen.
Speaker 1 (51:53):
And yeah, who cares?
Speaker 2 (51:54):
I hope that us unfollowing and not listening
makes an impact, because thatwas ugly, it was just ugly.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
But at the same time, if I don't want to listen to it
, just don't, I'm not going tolisten to it, I'll just delete
it, do I?
Speaker 2 (52:04):
wish harm upon any of them, absolutely not.
Speaker 1 (52:07):
Lord no.
Speaker 3 (52:07):
Great, am I going to share my?
Speaker 2 (52:09):
opinion yes.
Speaker 1 (52:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:11):
Because would I like for them to reach out?
Yes, will.
Will I have a conversation?
Yes, because I want you tounderstand my point of view and
a person that doesn't agree withthat point of view, just as
much as I would like to hear howyou got there, not what you
said on the radio.
But I want to understandbecause there's a lot of people,
(52:35):
like we said early on, there'sa lot of people in our lives
that we are friends with andhave been friends with over the
years that do not choose thesame lifestyle that we choose.
Does that mean we love them anyless?
Absolutely not.
If they called us tomorrow andsaid I need you to do this, that
and the other, would we do that?
Yes, we would.
I don't.
(52:56):
I don't.
I don't care what you choose inthe privacy of your home.
I truly do not.
I care about you as a personbecause you are my friend, and
my friend means anybody that'slistening okay, so we're, we're
way in.
We are very is so many minutes.
(53:17):
This is the longest episodeprobably ever, yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:21):
Sorry everyone, but can we unpack?
Is there an unpack Like oneunpack?
There's a big unpack for me.
Speaker 2 (53:26):
There's a big unpack and we say it's a big unpack,
it's a short unpack, but it'sbig for you.
I feel like you or all of us,for unpack.
Take a look at the people inyour life, like literally.
Take a minute, think about thepeople in your life.
Are they all just like you?
Speaker 1 (53:49):
Yeah.
Do they think the same way?
Do they look the same?
Speaker 2 (53:55):
way, I lost my mic right there it was a situation
Like are they?
Speaker 1 (53:57):
I mean, have you created this cocoon?
This little bubble whetheryou're liberal or conservative
or whatever you may be, are Imean not?
Even in politics, just like inlife, like you have people, who,
who, who, just think the sameway, act the same way.
You're gonna have those friendsthat are close to you yeah, but
(54:18):
like look past that, like areyou, maybe your?
Speaker 2 (54:21):
secondary bubble.
Yeah, like your, your insidebubble is likely going to be
made up of people who are likeyou.
Look at your outside bubble.
If, if the people even thatoutside, are they all just like
you?
Well, here's a second questionAre you uncomfortable being
around people that are not likeyou?
I feel like that's a bigquestion, because I don't feel
(54:46):
uncomfortable when I'm withpeople that are not like me,
because I'm secure in who I'mrooted in with Christ.
I'm secure in myself, I'msecure in my beliefs, but also I
am secure in knowing that I canlove other people who are not
like me.
I can and I do.
(55:07):
Yeah, that's a huge practice Ifeel like to put into place.
Speaker 1 (55:13):
How about you, michael, what you got?
Speaker 3 (55:17):
A lot of this hits close to me, just specifically
after this last week.
Um, I will say just in honesty,like I've wrestled a lot with
emotions of just everything,especially with charlie kirk
this last week, but and I'mgonna try to keep this short
because I got a lot of thoughtsin my mind, but the first thing
(55:38):
that comes to mind is humbleyourself oh that check yourself
that's hard for a lot of peopleand it is.
It is, it's something you, youhave to practice.
It's something that you have toexercise because if you don't,
when the time comes that youneed to yeah it will be near
impossible to do that's true,but here's the reason it's not
(56:00):
just simply to say oh, justthink less of yourself.
Which I mean, don't get me wrongI think we'd all be in a better
place if we didn't overestimateourselves.
But here's the reason why, andit's not to say don't be
passionate, it's not to saydon't be zealous, have a longing
or a yearning or a fire aboutwhat you believe in, but simply
(56:20):
have enough mental and emotionalawareness within you.
Speaker 2 (56:26):
Maturity.
Speaker 3 (56:27):
Yes, maturity, to sit back and check yourself.
And you ask, am I thinking thisbecause this is just what I
believe in?
Am I thinking this because, youknow, this is the truth that I
stand on?
And if this is the truth that Ihave to stand on, then this is
how I must act Know why you'redoing what you're doing.
(56:50):
And I know we've said thatbefore but so many times because
it leads to this.
So many times, especially whenwe get into conversations with
people we don't agree with, wealways want to prove a point, we
always want to have our pointheard and, you know, have that
last sentence and mic drop.
(57:11):
You know that kind of thing.
But the reality is that thatcomes from our ego, that comes
from our pride, that comes fromus wanting to be better than
yeah.
And I had a dear friend andmentor tell me one time always
strive to make a difference,don't strive to prove a point,
because if you strive to prove apoint, you will and chances are
(57:33):
you proving that point willseparate you and the person
you're talking to.
Speaker 2 (57:37):
And that will make the difference.
Speaker 3 (57:39):
But if you strive to make a difference and you get
connected with them.
Speaker 2 (57:45):
Sorry, I was jumping ahead, you're fine.
Speaker 3 (57:47):
If you strive to make a difference, your point will
eventually be proven, and Ithink so many times we jump too
eagerly and too passionately,and sometimes with a good
passion but, we jump at thewrong place and we we do it in
the wrong time and we try toprove a point and we don't
(58:08):
strive to make a differenceright, because the only thing
well, that's stupid to say, butthe only thing is going to make
a difference is trying toactually like pursuing making a
difference.
And when we do that, I think forme like when I hear everything
we've talked about you know howdo you get to sit down and dig
into the root of what someoneelse believes, even though it's
(58:29):
vastly different from you.
We strive to make a difference,we don't strive to prove our
point right.
And so I would encourage you,wherever you stand, with
everything that's going on rightnow, or whether it be something
completely unrelated, like,check yourself, you know and I
don't say that to beat yourselfdown.
Don't beat yourself down.
You have worth, you have valuein who you are and what you
(58:53):
believe in.
But also, at the same time, weneed to be wise in choosing what
we believe in, because when wedo that, it lets us know what
ground we must stand on and italso lets us know what ground
doesn't make a difference, if welose it or not.
And when we understand thatdifference, what battles are
(59:13):
worth fighting, what argumentsare not worth fighting, then we
can more accurately andintentionally strive to make a
difference in people's lives.
Speaker 1 (59:24):
Well, okay, well, that's it.
Um, I don't want to follow that, but I will because I don't
have a choice.
So, um, I think my unpack is isvery, very simple.
I think it's a very easy onehave a conversation, just sit
down and have a conversation.
Speaker 2 (59:45):
With, no matter who it is.
Speaker 1 (59:47):
Yeah, it doesn't matter who it is, what it's
about, just start talking.
Just start talking to people.
And you're not talking toconvince or persuade anyone.
You're talking because you'recurious.
yeah to understand dig dig intothe curiosity of wanting to know
why people think and act theway they do.
(01:00:07):
Um, if you start with that,you'll, you'll be cute.
It'd be really interestingwhere you wound up.
I just I thought it's a simplething like um, you see someone
sitting by herself in the coffeeshop.
I mean, they may be working,who knows?
Uh, sometimes people just don'twant to be, they don't want to
talk anymore.
Um, they got their headphonesin or not.
(01:00:28):
But it's just like start aconversation.
Who knows where that leads?
Uh, who knows what, whathappens with that and um, but
not in a way of I want them tobelieve the way I do or think
the way I think, but just justbe like I just want to know who
you are, I want to understandwhere you're at.
That's mine.
This is a big topic.
We've been going at it for alittle bit.
It's been a super long episode.
Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
This is the longest.
Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
Yeah, this is the longest one I've ever done, the
longest episode, so please, ifyou've been here this long and
you've listened to the wholething.
Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
Thank you.
Also, can you like drop acomment and just be like hey way
to go.
Like some random emoji, like,whatever it is.
Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
You can text us from either Apple Spotify.
Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
There's a text option in there.
If somebody texts us directly,I would be my pants.
Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
When he texts it, it comes to our show and we'll see
it.
So feel free to do that.
Drop us a DM, like, follow,subscribe.
We're still growing.
We're in 11 countries now, 161cities.
It's kind of crazy.
It's going out there.
Just thank you for sharing.
Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
If you think anybody could, and just thank you for
listening to us talk aboutwhatever.
Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
Yeah, if you think somebody could benefit from this
, please share it.
Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
Please put it out there, um.
Thank you, and we love you.
Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
Yeah, we're working on trying to make it better
every day we are um, we just allhave jobs and it's really slow.
So yeah, it's a situation yeahthis is not our full-time gig no
, it it's not.
Speaker 2 (01:01:58):
And with that, thank you for joining Baggage Claim
and we hope you join us againwhere we can share and love one
another.
Speaker 1 (01:02:07):
That's right, love you guys.
Go Dawgs, go Dawgs, that'sright.
Go Dawgs you.
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