What happens when your faith gets shattered? How do you rebuild trust in something bigger than yourself when life deals devastating blows? This deeply personal episode reveals the spiritual journeys that have profoundly shaped our marriage and blended family.
Greg shares his transformation from substance abuse to ministry after a rock-bottom moment in a bar bathroom. His story includes unexpected miracles—like the time four catering vans mysteriously appeared with food after a simple prayer for homeless people in Atlanta. You'll hear how his faith was later tested through divorce despite "doing everything right" according to religious expectations, leading to broken windows, burned furniture, and ultimately, redemption.
Jess reveals a different path—raised in church by a devoted mother, her faith was strengthened through her daughter's miraculous healing from severe heart defects. Yet she too faced a devastating test when her first husband died unexpectedly, forcing her to redefine what "good" looks like in a world where prayers sometimes seem unanswered.
We explore how these experiences form the foundation of our relationship, highlighting our belief that healthy marriages require three essential components: personal health (emotional, mental, spiritual), a strong couple relationship, and family dynamics. As we share our stories without filters, we invite you to consider your own "true north"—what grounds you during life's inevitable storms?
Whether you're spiritually inclined or not, this conversation offers valuable perspective on finding anchor points that hold you steady when everything else falls apart. Because as we've learned through our journeys, everyone is either in a storm, just coming out of one, or about to enter one—and what matters most is how you weather it together.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey guys, what's up?
I'm Greg.
I hope you guys are ready tounpack and get into some good
conversations today.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
And I'm Jess and this is our podcast Baggage Claim.
Thank you for joining us.
Hey everybody, welcome toBaggage Claim.
I almost forgot the name of ourpodcast.
I'm laughing because it's myturn to do the intro and I'm a
(00:27):
nervous wreck and that's sillybecause we've done this.
This is our 11th broadcast andI'm still a nervous wreck, but
it's okay.
So Baggage Claim is a podcastwhere we are sharing what makes
us us, greg right.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
That's right.
Just marriage in a blendedfamily, not in a blended family,
just life in general, all thosefun things that entail in life.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I'm feeling a little bit silly or giggly because
there's 19 days left in theschool year where we live and
it's exhausting right now.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Yeah, the kids are off the hook.
They know they can smell it inthe air.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Oh, they know.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
They're like sharks they start circling, they smell
the blood in the water andthey're like summer's coming.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
And you know, several years ago I had the bright idea
to do an ABC countdown to thelast day of school.
Still doing that this manyyears later.
And today was H is for hat Hatday.
You would think you just wear alittle hat on your precious
little noggin and we're justgoing to still do school.
(01:37):
No, no, no.
That is not In fact a few ofthe questions I asked my littles
today.
My little firsties, have youlost your mind?
Okay, I also ask have we everdone that in the history of our
first grade year together?
A little question of a littleprecious silly goose.
(02:00):
Gotcha.
I can't even remember.
There was a few that I told youabout earlier, but I can't
remember.
So we're all running on fumesright now.
Gotcha, I can't even remember.
There was a few that I told youabout earlier, but I can't
remember.
So we're all running on fumesright now.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Yeah, I can tell you had such a productive day.
I hung out with Richard, mybarber the coolest barber ever.
Give me a cut.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
So yeah, and tomorrow we have a field trip.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
No good for you.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
And then in two days we have field day.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Yeah, field trips just breed.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Insanity?
Yeah, it's just yeah, it's like.
Yeah, so the fact that we asteachers especially firsties
shout out to my team, expect forus to be able to have any kind
of normalcy is just crazy whenwe have literally planned
insanity for the last 26 days ofschool.
There's 26 letters in thealphabet, if you don't know.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Oh, thank you, but yeah, there's just a lot, so,
anyway, Well, let's do it alittle different tonight,
because we've been saying, hey,we have these questions, we're
going to read from our favoritebook A Year and Us, and we don't
ever do it at the end.
So we said let's do ourquestion at the beginning before
to kick us off into what we'retalking about.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
And I do have my trusty reading glasses this time
for you.
Thank you?
It's like Greg said.
It's from the book called AYear of Us.
It's a couple's journal andit's by Alicia Munoz.
We will reach out to her and wewill have her here, or at least
virtually.
So the question is you ready?
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah, a hundred percent Go.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
What song reminds you most of me and why?
And you cannot use quote,unquote our song.
Oh okay, our song is by RayLaMontagne.
It's called you Are the BestThing.
Right.
And it's a wonderful song.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
It is, but.
I'm not using it.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
That's what we when we got married we walked out of
the church to that song.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Right, I don't know who sings this song.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
I don't even know if I know the title correctly.
Okay and no, it's not ludicrous.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Don't, just don't.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
It's ludicrous Be tasteful Okay.
I'm sorry, golly Front porch,front porch.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Porch swing angel.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Porch swing angel, I knew that's what you were going
to say.
No, you did not.
You just gave me a list ofthings I couldn't use.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
No, not a list.
I just said well, okay, a listof ludicrous songs.
You could not.
Okay, well, it's true Anywaypoor Swing Angel, I can't
remember who it's by.
I'm pretty sure it's MuscatineBloodline, but I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
I was flipping a house in South Carolina and I
was working by myself one nightand I just had music blaring.
I don't remember what I wasdoing, but I was just working by
myself and that song came on, Ijust kind of stopped.
Yeah, and I just remembersitting down I was like, yeah,
that's—.
The lyrics are really sweet,yeah, it is really cool because
it just kind of speaks of— wehave a port swing.
(04:53):
We don't really have a frontporch, we have a garage, so we—
Carport, carport, old schoolcarports built.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Our house is old school, it it's a carport, and
so I put it in the carport so itgets sweet.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
I mean, yeah, you enclose it as a garage, it's a
carport, it is a carport, yeah,okay, so that's mine.
How about?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
yours, Mine is the Zac Brown song.
You Make Lovin' you Easy.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Aw Did you do.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
I thought it was going to be the pink pony thing.
Oh you do.
You don't know that and youwould not probably accept that,
but you do make loving you easy.
It's easy to be married to you.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Not always Be careful 95% of the time.
Well, we're excited.
Tonight's a little differentfor us.
We've sat down and we've spenta lot, a lot of hours just
trying to dissect ourrelationship, our marriage.
What was the good, what was thebad, what was the things we
(05:54):
would change?
We believe that all reallysuccessful marriages, or good
relationships, have threecomponents.
Yeah, these would be marriagesbecause they I mean Healthy
marriages, healthy ones.
Yeah, the first part of that isthe personal side of that.
Your, these would be marriagesbecause they I mean Healthy
marriages Healthy ones.
Yes, the first part of that isthe personal side of that.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Your personal health yeah.
That's just not your physicalhealth.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Right, it's emotional , mental and spiritual.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
And spiritual.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
So those are all kind of like part of that, like your
personality, who you are, howyou process information, how you
all those things are part ofyou Knowing you how you were,
how you process information, howyou all those things are part
of you Knowing you how you werebeing emotional intelligence all
that fun stuff.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
So that's number one.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Number two is husband and wife as a couple, or a
couple where you're at as acouple.
You may be just together andgoing to get married, but you
may be that couple.
And then the third part is yourfamily.
Yeah, whatever that familylooks like.
So those are the three keyparts.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
We've touched a lot on family health.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Most everything we talk about will fall into those
three categories everything wedo.
But tonight we're going tofocus on the personal side and
something that is peppered intoour story, but we've never been
like outright front with it.
But we just want you to knowour journey of how we got to
where we are in life.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
And who we are as people.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Yeah, just who we are .
And so, with that being said,tonight we're going to talk
about our faith and our faithjourney, of how we got to where
we are and how it's helped usthrough.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
And this is not us forcing our faith on others.
No, it's not us forcing ourfaith on others, no.
But we just want to share thatside of who we are because it's
a big part of our foundation,before we even knew each other.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Correct, yeah, yeah, so who's going first?
Am I going first?
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah, you go ahead and share.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Okay, I'm going to be really quick.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
It's okay if you're not quick, because your story
matters too.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Oh, thank you, that's so sweet.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
You matter.
That's what my shirt says.
If you're not watching us myshirt says you matter.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Okay.
So I grew up in a familyincredible mom, dad was.
I think I've shared some ofthat was kind of Not so great
Right.
Yes, we didn't grow up in church.
We went to church on occasion.
We weren't like regularattenders.
It wasn't a huge part of ourfamily life Still had a great
family.
My mom really cared for us,loved us, did what she could we
(08:15):
just faith was not a huge partof our story.
Right Just to.
I never processed all the hurt,all the pain, all the things
that I went through as a kidwith my dad, so that trauma led
to just drugs and alcohol, justto make a long story short.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
You were trying to band-aid it.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Yes, I was trying to hide it and blame everyone else
and become a victim and sayingwoe is me.
My dad was this way and so I dothis.
I had already had a couplerun-ins with the police before I
got out of high school, and sothat just tells you the
trajectory I was on.
I had some friends who alwaysinvited me to church.
(08:53):
I just never went.
They would go and I thought itwas weird.
They would have like a CDburnings or record burnings and
this weird stuff, and I would go, dig out the really good CDs
that they were trying to burnand take those home with me.
So it was just like I didn'thate church.
I didn't really.
I just really didn't have aneed for it.
(09:14):
I didn't think I needed it inmy life.
Yeah, I could figure it outmyself.
Well, long story short, thedrugs got heavier, alcohol
became more, everything justprogressed into something else
and it got to a point to whereI'm like I can't, I can't manage
this anymore.
And I'd had a friend who keptinviting me to church, invited
me to church, invited me tochurch, and I would politely
(09:36):
just tell him no every time hewould and I never really said.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
And then but you were the nicest, not so great guy
you were never mean.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
I was probably the nicest, was not-so-great guy.
I really was.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
You were never mean, I was probably one of the nicest
drug dealer, alcohol dealersthat I've known.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
I was very kind, very nice guy.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Right, yes.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
And.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
I did— I just want to make sure you paint the picture
correctly, because you'vealways been a like quote-unquote
good guy.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Yeah, I wasn't mean.
Yeah, and I have—I did do—Ididn't deal heavy drugs, you
know, just like pot and simplethings.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Okay, I wasn't that far into that scene.
I didn't mean for you to haveto share that Okay.
I was just saying I didn't wantyou to paint the picture that
you were a really like bad guy.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
All through my life I'd always said I don't want to
be like my dad.
I don't want to be like my dad,I don't want to be this way.
And I had this awakening momentwhere, literally I was.
I had dropped some of my drugsit was the white powder kind
behind a toilet in a littlevolume, and I reached down.
(10:35):
I remember reaching down andI'm on my hands and knees in
this nasty toilet in this bartrying to get a substance and I
was like this is my reality,this is who I am.
I remember getting up from thatand calling friends.
I was like what time is churchin the morning?
He's like oh, it's this time.
I was like cool, I'll be there.
And this was at ChestnutMountain Church.
(10:57):
I went and I remember the guy.
I don't remember a whole lot ofwhat he said, but he was
preaching this message.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
And I went down front .
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Like at you is one of those moments.
Yeah, I was like dude.
This dude's talking to me likenobody else is here.
I remember going down front andI wasn't I mean, I didn't grow
up in church, so I wasn'tchurched at all and I was like
dude, if what you're saying isreal and this is real.
What do I need to do?
Because this is all I got.
I've trashed everything I have.
This is what I got and Iremember praying and he got up
(11:31):
and he goes, okay, and I waslike that's it.
And he goes, yeah, and he goes,chase after him now, chase
after God.
And I was like, done, you cando that.
And so it was a very, verySouthern Baptist church.
The next day they literally arelike, hey, we go, all people
who are visiting, you get thesecards and we split up and you
get to go with a deacon or anelder.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
I still can't believe that you were the very next day
to visitation.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
I did.
He said chase after him.
So I was like I'm going to go.
If the church was open, I'mgoing to go, show up and do
whatever it is they're doing.
I never visited anybody atchurch.
I didn't even know what to say.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Like they were going out to share the gospel.
You didn't know where you weregoing for sure.
I had no idea, you just showedup.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
You show up and they give you these cards.
And I was with a guy.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
I remember we were there and I was like and so it
was Monday night visitation yes,and most of the time you would
take your guest visitor card andyou would go visit those guests
that just visited your churchthat day.
Yeah, and so that's what youwere doing.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yes, I was on that visitation train and, just so
you know it's not highly public,there was like maybe six people
there and I was one of the six.
Yeah, so we had two cards.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
It's a small crowd for a Monday night visitation.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yeah, it's not a big crowd gatherer.
So I remember going and weknocked on these two people's
door and they weren't there andI was like, well, what do we do
now?
And he goes well, we're justdone.
I was like, bro, no.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
No, we're not.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
I was like, okay, these are friends of mine, and I
was like they may dabble in thedrug scene, but I was like
they're home and they're reallynice people.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
I'm proud of you for giving them like a heads up, but
they had no idea.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
No, they had no idea.
So we go in and we knock on thedoor and they're like Greg,
what's up?
This is the next day, it wasjust the day before and I was
like, hey man, what's up, thisis my buddy I literally had just
met I can't remember who it wasand I remember we're sitting on
the couch and the guy's rollingup a joint, he's smoking it,
about to smoke it, and I waslike, hey, bro, tell him what I
(13:35):
heard yesterday at church.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Your Southern Baptist counterpart.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
I was like tell him the story you told me.
And he's looking at me liketell him what I was, like tell
him what the preacher said, likeI had no idea what was going on
, yeah, and so it was just oneof those kind of he's like okay,
you were so excited right, Iwas I was like bro, you have to
hear what I heard.
Yeah, and some of my buddieswere buddy's houses that night
(14:04):
and I think it was probably themost exciting visitation this
guy had ever had.
He's just like what have Igotten into?
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Yeah, who is this, greg guy?
Speaker 1 (14:12):
So from that launched into my.
If the church was open, I wasthere.
I went and bought a Bible thenext day, and then I showed up
at this Christian bookstore backwhen Amazon wasn't around.
And so I went to the Christianbookstore and they had the CDs
lined up as the number oneseller all the way to the bottom
.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Was the one that used to be in our town.
Yes, in Gainesville.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
And so I walk in and I'm a.
I was a Metallica Pearl JamSound Garden.
That was my jam, you're kind ofgrungy.
Yeah, I love that music.
So I went up and I was like I'mgoing to buy the number one CD
in this Christian bookstore andlisten to it and you got the
Gaither Vocal.
Band Gaither.
Vocal Band.
I don't know if you've heardthem, but you should just Google
(14:54):
Gaither Vocal Band and listento it.
And I was a Pearl Jam likeNirvana, like grunge, nirvana
like grunge, like I liked hardrock.
And I was like man.
If this is Christian music,okay, I don't want it.
I was like this is going to betough.
But I remember I went and satdown and I just started reading
my Bible and I read I think inthe first month I read it.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
I bet you were so happy when, like DC Talk and
Potters of Clay, those guys cameout.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Potters of Clay.
All those guys were like, yes,please, was it POD?
One of those guys were out to,so it was like so I had no idea
and no one was really like me inthe church.
And so there was like hey,there's this mission trip, we're
going on a mission trip.
And I was like, dude, I'm downfor that, what do we do?
And he's like you were allabout adventure.
(15:38):
Yeah, it's like we're just goingout of the country.
We're going to go share, share.
You know a faith, what we did.
We're going to preach and I waslike preach.
He's like, yeah, you stand upand we just telling people about
God and I was like I'm in, I'mdone.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
I was like I got to get permission for my probation
officer first.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
So I had to get my probation into Romania.
It was my first time on a plane, First time out of the country,
Flew to Romania and then stayedin Romania for a couple days
and we went into Ukraine and Iwas in Ukraine for about a week
and I actually I mean I had beena Christian literally maybe 15
(16:15):
minutes.
Yeah, like just a few months,and I remember the guy, he was
the worship leader.
It was Black Sheep Place, it'sThomas Christ Place now.
He gave me the microphone.
He goes I feel like God'stelling me to share, just get up
and share.
And I was like yes, sir, and Igrabbed the mic, stood up and I
just started talking and we didthat for a week.
We would do that two or threetimes a day for a solid week,
(16:39):
and I remember coming back I wassitting in a hotel room on the
ledge and there was a lot ofmilitary unrest in Romania at
that time.
This was a long time ago folks,and you were on the balcony.
I remember sitting out on thebalcony and I was just sitting
there and I could see the tanksjust rolling around and I could
hear as clearly as day Godsaying he was calling me.
(17:00):
He's like.
Your life now is about servingothers and that was so clear to
me.
I didn't know what that lookedlike.
I didn't know what that meant.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
So when I got back I was like you didn't realize that
was like an actual call toministry at that point.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
No, I was just like I don't know, I don't know the
church words to say I was likedude.
I'm just going to serve people,I'm going to love on people.
And so I got back and I wasjust like, okay, I'm in and I
started reading.
I think my first year I readthrough the Bible, cover to
cover, like four times.
It was just like sponge, justgive me everything you got.
I had a buddy of mine who I metthrough some of the students
(17:36):
there a little later in collegeand we started going and doing
street witnessing in Atlanta andso we would go every Friday
night.
They would do a homelessministry and they would feed
people.
At the corner of Lucky andSpringer there's a church it was
North Metro, I think.
It was set up and they wouldgrill hot dogs for homeless
people.
And so we went and did that.
We're like you know what?
We're going to go meet thesehomeless people where they're at
and just talk to them.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
You're leading up to one of my favorite stories of
your whole Christian walk.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
So we went to our college.
We were at college I don't knowwhy they let me in college they
asked me to leave after alittle bit.
Anyway, a story for a differentday, that's a different story.
But when you go to college theywould give you these care
packages.
It had toothpaste, toothbrush,all the shaving stuff.
So I went and asked the people.
I was like what do you do withall the leftovers?
And they was like well, we justgive them away.
(18:24):
And I was like, well, we'redoing homeless ministry, can I
have them?
She goes, yes.
So a buddy of mine, shane, and I, a buddy of ours, we had boxes
and boxes and I mean likehundreds of these things.
So we broke them down and westarted making little care
packages and we would go toAtlanta and we would hand these
things out.
And we saw this need.
We're like, dude, nobody comesdown here and really cares for
these people.
So it's like you know whatwe're going to do.
We're going to feed all thesepeople on Thanksgiving.
(18:45):
So we're going to come downhere on Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Day, but that area now is what?
Speaker 1 (18:49):
It is now Olympic Park.
It's now.
They mowed it all down.
It was Techwood at the time.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
It was awful.
Well, I say awful it wasdangerous.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
It was a very dangerous town.
Like cops would see us and belike, hey, what are y'all doing?
Why are you here?
And we're like we're justgiving stuff to homeless people
Talking.
He's like, don't call me ifthat stuff goes sideways.
Like you don't need to be here.
We've got that all the time.
Walked into so many drug dealsI can't count on one hand
Encountered some demon-possessedpeople, weird.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Weird, weird but anyway, always referred to as
your fishes and loaves story.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
So we were feeding.
We were going to feed people onThanksgiving, so we had a buddy
of ours, Todd Robinson, which Ilove dearly, has like we're
like, dude, we're getting agrill, we want to feed people.
He goes, man, I got somechicken and hot dogs.
He owns a food.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
That's what he sounds like.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Awesome dude, best dude.
I love this guy.
Do anything in the world forhim.
Good old country boy, verytalented musician, by the way.
But, anyway, he gave us tons ofthese hot dogs and chicken.
We just pulled the grill downto the back of our truck and we
just had all these signs.
We're like we're just going tostart handing out food to
anybody who wants to show up.
So we pulled up in an emptyparking lot.
This is how planned.
We were Pulled up in an emptyparking lot, got food here.
(20:04):
Well, all of a sudden, there'shundreds upon hundreds and
hundreds of people there andwe're like, uh, we're gonna run
out of food and so we're allsitting around.
You know, it's like, what arewe doing?
We're like, I don't know, youwant to be religious and be like
, well, let's pray, let's prayabout it.
And I was like, okay, so we allget in this circle and we're
like I mean, it was one of thosesimple prayers, like, okay, god
wasn't very churchy.
We're like I mean, it was oneof those simple prayers, like
(20:26):
okay, god it wasn't very churchy.
We're here feeding homelesspeople and we're about to run
out of food.
We need food.
We need food to get thesepeople.
Amen, that was about it.
As soon as that prayer finished, these four white vans, like
catering vans, come pulling upand the guy I think it was Shane
or somebody come and we go overand he's like hey, man, we had
(20:46):
a big party plan, party canceled.
We got all this food.
We saw you guys feeding people.
Do you need this food?
It's one of those momentsyou're just like you can't not
get emotional about that.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah, you're just like whoa.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
It's one of those moments in life where you're
like there's something so muchbigger.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
And who am I to be a part of that?
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Yeah, it's like you heard that, like somebody heard
that.
Um, but it was just, it wascrazy.
Those times made me kind of gooh okay, god, whatever, whatever
you leave, wherever you open adoor, I'm going to run through
that which led to which is crazyenough which led to me becoming
an ordained minister at thatchurch.
(21:29):
I worked at that church forseven, eight years.
Did everything from studentministry to college ministry to
loved it, had a blast, wasawesome.
Left that did a job with mybuddy.
Then wound up with another jobat Truffle and Church.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
After we got married.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Yes, doing, I didn't and I did all their small groups
.
They were expanding from fourcampuses eight campuses.
They needed some helpfacilitating that, building
small groups and curriculum andall that.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
So I did that.
You had a hand in hiring thecampus pastors too.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
A few of the campus pastors, which are amazing guys.
Love you, trey, anyway, it's a—.
And Paul yeah, I didn't hirePaul, no, but anyway it was— we
still love you A little bit.
So I worked there for aboutfour and a half years, so four
or five years, I can't rememberexactly.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
I think it was five.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Then left there and then wound up at River Bend as
an executive pastor positionthere.
What's crazy is I never, ever,applied for any of those church
jobs From the beginning.
Yeah, I never went hunting forone of them.
I never submitted a resume.
I never submitted anythingother than just saying those
doors will open for me, and itwas just a reminder that a guy
(22:41):
can do whatever he wants.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
He sure can.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Yeah, so that's my faith journey that's led me to
here.
I'm not your normal Christian.
That's what people would see asa Southern Baptist Christian.
I think I'm pretty normal.
I mean I have a lot of tattoos,but they all tell my faith
story.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
I mean, I do too and mine also tell my story.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
I like to drink a little bit.
I have a drink every now andthen and you know it's like, but
I'm in the Southern Baptistworld or in the Southern culture
.
People are like, oh my gosh,but it's like.
No, I love Jesus, I love peopleand I want to serve them and
serve Him.
And so it looks a littledifferent for other people, but
that's okay, you don't have tofit into the mold that I think
you have to fit into.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
And that's okay.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
But anyway, that's my journey.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
My faith journey looks a lot different.
And that's okay.
I did grow up in church.
I did have a mama that took meto church and a grandmother that
made sure I was there, and mydad didn't go to church with me
and us until I was older.
That's his story to tell in hisjourney.
(23:47):
But till I was I mean literallyuntil I was 20, he supported us
being there.
He was not against it, and nowhe's there every time the doors
are open.
But my mom always made surethat I was in church and then
later, when my brother was born,my brother was there as well.
I became a Christian when I was12.
(24:07):
And for me, at such a young age, having grown up there, it was
not this.
Now it is a life alteringmoment, don't take me wrong.
But it was not this big lightbulb moment because I had
already learned everything,because that's where I grew up
and that's just what I knew, butwhen?
That's the age that I realized,oh, but it is for me.
(24:32):
So, being young and I was alwaysinvolved in church and at youth
and helping at Bible school.
I went to one of those.
You did.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
I used to go to Bible schools.
No-transcript.
You did?
I used to go to Bible schools.
My mom would take me to those.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
I was singing in the youth choir and then all the
time in church.
That did lead to my firstmarriage, but when I started
dating TJ in high school I waslike one of the things you have
to do if you date me you have togo to church.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Now, he wasn't a church goer at the time.
No, no.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
He was kind of like you, like that he would go to
Bible school or whatever, we hada lot of same friends.
You did have a lot of samefriends, yeah.
So when we got married rightaround that same time is when he
was called to ministry becausehe had just gotten so head over
heels in love with serving atchurch and God called him to
ministry.
(25:29):
A little bit similar path toowith youth pastor and helping
with college and career andy'all kind of ran the same
circle as youth pastors.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
It's interesting because I met him at a couple of
youth things and and we had aroundtable thing you did, but I
didn't know him personally.
No, I just met him, but I nevermet you.
I didn't know you at all, no,so that's kind of strange, yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
And then I've always kind of laughed at like I've
been married to two pastors.
It's like, do I attract pastors?
I don't know.
But I'm okay with that.
But as far as like I don't havelike a fishes and loaves story
in my faith like you do.
But you know, that's a veryreal God moment for you and a
(26:17):
very real God moment for me wasafter Erin Grace was born.
She was born premature.
She was about six weekspremature and we found out when
she was about two weeks old thatshe had congestive heart
failure and she was a very, verysick baby.
You already know all this, butshe was a very sick baby.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
These folks don't.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Our friends, don't?
My teeny, tiny baby had twoholes in the top part of her
heart and one gigantic hole inthe bottom of her heart.
So basically her oxygenatedblood was almost not oxygenated
where it should be and where itgoes to the other chambers where
it's supposed to exchangeoxygen.
It just did not.
(26:54):
And then her little liver wasworking overtime trying to pump
all that fluid out.
But again, she was two weeksold before we found out at her
literal two-week checkup.
So anyway, she was a very sicklittle one and she was on a lot
of medications and we were atthe doctor all the time,
cardiologists and specialists,and we were at two different
(27:16):
cardiologists just to make sure,and it's just a whole long
story, yeah, anyway, so us andthe whole church, our family,
friends, everybody was prayingfor her healing.
And then, but TJ and I haddecided, like, of course we're
going to pray for her healingbecause that's obviously what we
want for her.
But then we were also prayingof you know, if you choose not
(27:37):
to heal her, then give us thestrength to give her the care
that she needs, because her allof the doctors told us that you
know, we won't know what kind ofquality of life she'll have
till she's five.
So it was a lot to handle whenwe had a two and a half year old
Thomas.
Wild man, all boy already, justlike wild.
Thank God for all thegrandparents and great
(28:00):
grandparents that were around,because, whoa, I'm trying to go
to the doctor with Erin Graceliterally every week.
Anyway, so Fast forward about18 months later, after we've
been the doctor over and overagain, we were preparing at 18
months for her first open heartsurgery.
That was to take place rightbefore she was two, and there
(28:24):
was a first time.
Tj had not gone with me to oneof her cardiology appointments.
He had some kind of meeting hecouldn't get out of, and so I
went and blessed her littleteeny heart.
She was so accustomed to it.
She'd either take a bottlewhile she was having her EKG
done and the echo done or, asshe got a little bit older, I
would give her sugar-freedum-dums.
(28:44):
And so she was sitting there.
At that point it was her suckerand she was just slobbery
sugary.
But she was just sitting theretaking all the tests and all.
Well, it was faster than normaland I was like, okay, that's
just the same, whatever.
So let's make a plan and thetech that was in there was a
gentleman that had done most ofher testing and he was like I'm
going to go get Dr Carpenter.
(29:05):
This is Lady Jillian Carpenter.
She was amazing, dr Carpenter.
He said I'm going to go get her, I'll be right back, you can go
ahead and dress Erin.
I was like okay.
And so Dr Carpenter said meetme in my office.
And I was like, oh boy, okay.
So I cleaned Erin Gracie and wewere going to her office and Dr
Carpenter said so I want to showyou some new pictures.
And I was like, okay, and I hadalready learned what Erin's
(29:28):
heart heart looked like.
And she said I want to show youhere, here and here.
And she circled the threeplaces where her little holes
not little, her gigantic holeshad been and she said they're
gone.
And she said and I don't, I'mgoing to get emotional.
She said I don't know how toexplain it and I was like, but I
(29:59):
do, yeah.
And so that probably was myfirst like faith crisis of is
God who he says he is, and is hethe healer that he says he is?
And I know that he is.
And so it was fascinating andjust like whoa, you know all.
At the same time I'm holdingthis tiny little baby.
That's so sickly.
But then I'm like oh, wait aminute, okay, here we go.
And that just turned everythingaround Right.
So that was a huge portion ofmy faith journey, until later on
(30:24):
.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Yeah.
So I mean, I don't want to saylike, oh, okay, so you had a
moment of crisis, Like whathappened when you really pushed.
But you, I mean that's a hugepush.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Yeah, that's a huge push, especially in your faith.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
So for you I would say how did you handle when TJ
passed away?
What did that do to your faithjourney?
What happened there?
Speaker 2 (30:50):
It was kind of interesting because now that
I've shared that, I really didreflect back on that of of aaron
grace's experience because Iwas like, okay, I was literally
told this baby might die right,and I'm not going to know, like
if you're, if you're told you're, where we are collectively, we
(31:11):
are not going to know what kindof quality of life this child is
going to have until she's five.
But in mine and TJ's life andour family, our church family,
it was like, but God, I meanhonestly so but sometimes our
prayers don't get answeredexactly, and that's a handful of
(31:33):
episodes ago, when I referredto that verse that was etched on
that little rock thing that Idid find if you've been
listening all along where it was, you know all things work for
good for those who love God.
I kept going back to that verseand after TJ died, I was just
like, what possible good isthere in this?
(31:53):
There's not any for me, there'snot any for my kids.
Like, what are people supposedto learn from this Me?
Like, what are we supposed tolearn?
So through counseling?
A Christian-based counselor waswhat I chose for me, because
that's what spoke to the core ofwho I am, because that's what
spoke to the core of who I am,helped me to learn.
(32:14):
Number one it's okay to be,excuse me, but it's okay to be
pissed off about what happened.
Right, 100%, like I have everyright and God agreed with me.
I had every right to be madabout what happened.
But also, after months andmonths and months, okay, now
what I had to choose for myself,what?
(32:37):
What do I do with that anger?
Do I choose to be bitter therest of my life and live in that
area, or do I choose to stillbe the kind of person I always
have been and look for good.
I couldn't find it for severalmonths.
Yeah.
I just I couldn't, but I had torelearn how to look for what the
(32:58):
definition of good even is.
It didn't look like what I hadpictured.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Right.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
But I had to also be okay with that too.
Yeah, what about you Now, allthat, what I said of you know,
when the crisis of a, you know,a crisis of faith have happened,
what did that look for?
Speaker 1 (33:18):
you though like when you're, I mean yeah, your
marriage fell apart yeah, well,I didn't handle mine quite as
good as yours I didn't alwaysseem like good, but I I tried um
I I didn't want to haveanything to a church.
Yeah, I didn't want to haveanything to do with church.
Yeah.
I didn't want to have anythingto do with God.
I didn't want to listen toworship music I don't want to
listen to.
I don't have anything to dowith it.
(33:40):
I mean, if I'm honest, I evenwent through a time where I
burned some furniture in mybackyard, set fire to it and
just burned it, and I had abuddy of mine set fire to it,
just burned it.
And I had a buddy of mine that Ilove dearly, corey Fabian,
literally showed up and just satwith me for a day, almost a day
(34:00):
and a half, sometimes two days,and would never say a word.
He just would sit with me and Iwould just sit there sometimes
and just cry, and sometimes hewould just put his arm around me
and we would just sit theretogether, which was huge.
He didn't have to say anything.
But I was mad.
I busted the front window outof my truck.
I punched it one morning.
I was mad.
(34:23):
So to say, I didn't handle my—Iwas angry.
I was just mad because I waslike I thought I've done
everything the way that I wastold the church told me what to
do.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
That's exactly what I was about to say.
Yeah, although I mean thescenarios are different, but you
and I both and we've talkedabout this over and over again
we both were doing all the quoteunquote right things in our
separate ministries.
Well, what?
The ways we were living ourlives separately of we're doing
all the things that we'resupposed to be doing.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Well, right, considering what, the church
being the building you go tosometimes.
Yeah, I believe the church isthe people, is us, is you, I
believe it resides within us,but it's the idea for me is like
I was doing all those thingsyou told me to do.
I did those.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
We were tithing, we were serving, we were living our
life the way, and I was like Iwas doing all those things you
told me to do.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
I did those we were tithing, we were serving, we
were living our life the way,and I was like this is what
happens.
So I was just mad and I alwayskept referring to because I just
felt like I was like, okay,god's left me, like he just left
and I'm done with this.
And that was when that momentof and I've shared this earlier,
I think when I was just after Ipunched my window out, burned
furniture, I was drinking alittle too much, and I realized
(35:39):
at least I had enough awarenessto go.
What I'm looking for is notfound in this.
Yeah.
I didn't make great decisions,just hear me.
I was just trying to keep myhead above water and I was
burning bridges and messing uppeople.
I was just, I was a hurt personand I was hurting people that
were in my path, and that's whatit was, and that was not pretty
(36:00):
.
But I remember that nightlaying in my in the floor in the
bathroom, just sobbing, just,and it was that audible voice
again, the same audible voice Iheard in Romania Get up.
Yeah, I was just like get up.
And I got up.
I remember sitting on the sideof the tub in that house and
he's like OK, are you done?
And I was like, well, crap, Iguess.
(36:23):
So, yeah, I guess, I am, I suream.
Yes, sir, all right, so I guessI am.
And so it was that.
But for me it was like as muchas I cussed him every morning on
the way to work, I was mad athim.
I didn't want to have, Iwouldn't read my Bible, I wasn't
doing the things that God lovedme anyway.
And he still loved me, nomatter what I did, and he loved
(36:46):
me through the hurt and the pain.
He didn't go anywhere, he wasalways there, and so it was.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
What's crazy to think about, though, this is as a
Christian, for you and I,because we've talked about a
little bit, just not on thepodcast, but it's like that same
God that saved you from thelife you were already, you were
trying your best to trash wasthe same God that was still
loving you through that periodof time.
Was the same God that was stillloving you through that period
of time, and, for me to thinkback of, that's the same God
(37:22):
that literally healed mydaughter from death.
Is the same God that allowedher dad to be, killed in an
accident.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Faith is not a neat package you put together.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
It's not pretty.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
Yeah.
And when you go in somewhere,if somebody tells you, oh, this
is going to be, all you got todo is pray this prayer.
Everything's going to be fine.
That's not the full truth.
There's more to that.
It's hard.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Yeah, because sometimes you have to put the
rubber to the road, or whateverphrase I'm trying to think of.
Sometimes you have to be likeno, I actually do believe this,
and now I have to act like it,even though it hurts so bad.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Yeah, so wherever you are, like, that's like this our
unpacked section is going tolook a little different tonight.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Yeah, today or whatever it is, I don't even
know Whatever time you want tosay this.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
We knew that this episode would be a little
different than others, could bea little heavy, it could be it
is.
But I want to share with yousomething, though like wherever
you are at in life, if you'reriding your car, drinking your
coffee, wherever you're at,you're in one of three places
You're in a storm, you just cameout of a storm or you're about
to go into a storm.
Yeah, you're in one of thosethree places.
(38:37):
It just reminds me of.
I used to leave thesebackpacking trips out of
Montreat College and this wasthe last day and we all had to
come back into this.
It was a seven-day trip,backpacking trip, and so we had
to come back into we were comingback.
It was the last night we had tospend.
So we're looking for somewhereand we're on the side of Mount
(38:58):
Mitchell and, if you don't know,it's a really big mountain
outside of Asheville and weatherblows in really, really quick,
and so I left my group.
I was like you guys, hang outhere for a second.
I'm going to go down themountain, look for a place to
camp.
I'll be back to get you.
I said, okay, cool, while I'mdown there, I feel the wind
picking up, I feel it gettingcooler.
I was like here comes a storm.
I got to go, so I take offrunning back up this trail up to
(39:20):
the mountain.
I get up there and it is justdumping rain and it's lightning
and you could feel the stormcoming.
I was like we're not in it.
And they're like, hey, we allgot these tarps and we set them
up and they're all standing inthis massive puddle of rain next
to this massive, massive tree,the big tree, and I was like
that's an awesome idea, but wedon't need to be here right now.
(39:42):
This is a big fat, no yeah weneed to get out from under this
tarp and we need to scatter out.
And they're like why?
And I was like so?
If lightning hits, it doesn'thit all of us, it only hits one
or two of us.
And then the girls startfreaking out and people start
screaming and they're crying,and I was just.
I remember this.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
I have to do a side note real fast.
Okay.
Because I didn't know anythingabout weather, much till.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Oh, don't share this.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
At our previous house that we lived at, we had a pool
and it was you and I and thiswas before my brother and his
wife, corey and Brittany, hadchildren, and all four of our
kids were just maniacs all overthe place and you were like, oh,
it's about to storm.
And that pool did have abeautiful view of the sky and we
were like you're insane, thesun is still out.
(40:31):
And he was like Greg whoo.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
I said, if there's one thing I know, it's weather
patterns.
And this, many years later.
And you thought it was the mosthilarious thing, brittany and I
.
But what did it do that day?
Speaker 2 (40:41):
It did.
Thank you.
But Brittany and I thought itwas the funniest thing.
Yeah, so every time.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Now it's about to rain, they go.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
If there's, we thought it was it is true.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Thank you for ruining my story.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
But it's true, you were correct.
The moral of the story is thatyou were correct.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
So we're out and I have these people, these high
school kids, lined up and I havethem separated and I was like
you get in lightning strikeposition and like what is that?
I was like you put your kneestogether and you hunker down and
I was like they're like why?
I was like so if the lightninghits the ground, it goes up
through one leg, goes to theknee and it goes out the other
foot.
I was like it won't hit yourvital organs.
(41:20):
That didn't help instill likesafety in them and so they're
crying and I was like don'tworry, cpr is highly effective
with lightning strikes and I'mcertified, so we're all good.
I would have been for thecrying crew.
It is dumping, I mean it's.
I mean, when it lightens and ithits, like the ground shaking,
it's that close, like we're highup on this mountain, it's just
(41:44):
pounding us, yeah, and I keep, Ikeep walking up and down this
line.
I was like just hang in herebecause the storm's going to be
gone in a minute.
Just keep hanging in herebecause it's going to be gone in
a minute.
Like this storm's going to pass, it's going to pass.
Did they believe you?
No, they were screaming andcrying and some of the guys were
trying to act all cool andthey're like, yeah, this is
awesome and I'm like, but anyway, finally the storm did pass by,
(42:07):
right, and we're all standingthere soaking wet.
And I was just like okay, let'sgrab our bags and head down to
go camp.
And you know there are a lot oftrauma there that we didn't
process or work through.
But in life, that's literallywhere we're at.
And it's true, some storms arejust like oh, it just blows in
just really quick, it'ssomething simple, and some hang
(42:30):
out for a while, some cause alot of destruction, some just
wreck your life, but no, so,with that being said, you're in
one of those three places andwhat grounds you, though?
I mean, that's the question forour friends yeah, I sort of say
you're asking me, but I thoughtwe're unpacking here, you okay?
Speaker 2 (42:46):
but to unpack.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
We're asking our friends what grounds you when
you're in those storms yeah,like what's your, I think for me
it it's almost the question ofwhat's your true north, like
what's guiding you.
And there's two avenues.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
Yeah, I mean there may be some debate in that, but
for us there's two avenues.
Is it a faith-based avenue?
Are you a Christian?
Is that what grounds you as acouple it's not just individual
Like, do you share the samefaith as your partner?
What happens if you don't?
(43:22):
You know, do you support oneanother in your faith journey?
Or, you know, even if you are aChristian, you may not have yet
had a true.
I don't say true.
You may not have felt likeyou've had a test of your faith
yet.
Right.
But at some point it will happenand a storm may come.
(43:44):
You know what grounds you inthat.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Oh, they're coming, yeah.
And so the idea is, even ifyou're not on that faith journey
and you haven't been, I thinkthat's the question to ask, like
, what am I trusting in?
What do I trust?
What am I, like you saygrounding?
I'm like what am I anchoringmyself to?
What's my hope?
Speaker 2 (44:05):
I mean, that's the question for Christian and
non-Christian.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
Right, of course.
And when I say Christian, Idon't mean someone who goes to
church and sings songs anddoesn't cuss or drink or hang
out with people who do.
That was always the phrase thateverybody said and I was like I
don't understand that, like Ishould be hanging out with those
people, but anyway, that's adifferent podcast.
I'm not talking about that.
I'm talking about somethingthat's real life in relationship
(44:29):
, in your life.
You're pursuing, you're chasing, so it's not.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
If you don't have that, where do you turn when you
face a storm?
And that's not for you and I toanswer.
No, these are questions tothink about your own self.
You know, where do you findhope?
Right.
And you know what's holding you.
And, like what you said, whatis your true north?
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Right, because we don't.
I mean we don't talk about ourfaith a lot on here, because I
don't want people to, I don't.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
I'm not going to Bible beat people, no we're not
going to shove our faith downyour throat, but that's just a
really big piece of who we are.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Yeah, it kind of keeps us centered and focused in
our lives as we move forward,because marriage is hard and
blended families are hard.
It is, and so—.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Lifing is hard.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
Yeah, as you're asking yourselves those
questions what's your true north?
What's grounding you?
What's your hope in man?
Take some time and just sitdown and ask those questions to
each other.
Just have some discussionaround it.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
It's not easy discussions either.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
No.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
I mean the first million times we've talked about
these stories with each other,of what we've been through is.
It was not easy.
I mean now we know each other'sstories inside and out, but as
we went through and we figuredout, OK, we're putting this
together.
I need to know where you're atas a person so that we can put
(45:52):
this together as a couple, as aunit for our family.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
Gotcha yeah 100%.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
And our friends need to know how to do that too.
They do If you have questions.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
Yeah, if you have questions, if you want to chat
about it, you know how to catchus on all the socials.
There's actually even a place,too, if you're listening to this
, where you can actually tap inFAN and you can text in the
podcast and we get thosenotifications.
We'll be happy to set up, evenlike a FaceTime or Zoom,
whatever you're comfortable withor, if you're near us to set up
(46:25):
time to sit down, whatever itmay be Like our goal, just so
you guys know, our goal inBaggage Claim is to help people
through marriage.
That's it.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
And to be completely transparent as we do it.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Yes, and sometimes that's not pretty and sometimes
it is yeah.
So thank you guys for joiningin.
Thank you for sharing ourpodcast.
It's growing each week, butmake sure to you know if you're
listening on any one of ourother channels.
Make sure to like, subscribe,um and just join us.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
So thank you yeah.
Love you guys.
Hey guys, what's up?
I'm Greg.
I hope you guys are ready tounpack and get into some good
conversations today.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
And I'm Jess and this is our podcast Baggage Claim.
Thank you for joining us.
Hey everybody, welcome toBaggage Claim.
I almost forgot the name of ourpodcast.
I'm laughing because it's myturn to do the intro and I'm a
(00:27):
nervous wreck and that's sillybecause we've done this.
This is our 11th broadcast andI'm still a nervous wreck, but
it's okay.
So Baggage Claim is a podcastwhere we are sharing what makes
us us, greg right.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
That's right.
Just marriage in a blendedfamily, not in a blended family,
just life in general, all thosefun things that entail in life.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I'm feeling a little bit silly or giggly because
there's 19 days left in theschool year where we live and
it's exhausting right now.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Yeah, the kids are off the hook.
They know they can smell it inthe air.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Oh, they know.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
They're like sharks they start circling, they smell
the blood in the water andthey're like summer's coming.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
And you know, several years ago I had the bright idea
to do an ABC countdown to thelast day of school.
Still doing that this manyyears later.
And today was H is for hat Hatday.
You would think you just wear alittle hat on your precious
little noggin and we're justgoing to still do school.
(01:37):
No, no, no.
That is not In fact a few ofthe questions I asked my littles
today.
My little firsties, have youlost your mind?
Okay, I also ask have we everdone that in the history of our
first grade year together?
A little question of a littleprecious silly goose.
(02:00):
Gotcha.
I can't even remember.
There was a few that I told youabout earlier, but I can't
remember.
So we're all running on fumesright now.
Gotcha, I can't even remember.
There was a few that I told youabout earlier, but I can't
remember.
So we're all running on fumesright now.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Yeah, I can tell you had such a productive day.
I hung out with Richard, mybarber the coolest barber ever.
Give me a cut.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
So yeah, and tomorrow we have a field trip.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
No good for you.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
And then in two days we have field day.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Yeah, field trips just breed.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Insanity?
Yeah, it's just yeah, it's like.
Yeah, so the fact that we asteachers especially firsties
shout out to my team, expect forus to be able to have any kind
of normalcy is just crazy whenwe have literally planned
insanity for the last 26 days ofschool.
There's 26 letters in thealphabet, if you don't know.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Oh, thank you, but yeah, there's just a lot, so,
anyway, Well, let's do it alittle different tonight,
because we've been saying, hey,we have these questions, we're
going to read from our favoritebook A Year and Us, and we don't
ever do it at the end.
So we said let's do ourquestion at the beginning before
to kick us off into what we'retalking about.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
And I do have my trusty reading glasses this time
for you.
Thank you?
It's like Greg said.
It's from the book called AYear of Us.
It's a couple's journal andit's by Alicia Munoz.
We will reach out to her and wewill have her here, or at least
virtually.
So the question is you ready?
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah, a hundred percent Go.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
What song reminds you most of me and why?
And you cannot use quote,unquote our song.
Oh okay, our song is by RayLaMontagne.
It's called you Are the BestThing.
Right.
And it's a wonderful song.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
It is, but.
I'm not using it.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
That's what we when we got married we walked out of
the church to that song.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Right, I don't know who sings this song.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
I don't even know if I know the title correctly.
Okay and no, it's not ludicrous.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Don't, just don't.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
It's ludicrous Be tasteful Okay.
I'm sorry, golly Front porch,front porch.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Porch swing angel.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Porch swing angel, I knew that's what you were going
to say.
No, you did not.
You just gave me a list ofthings I couldn't use.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
No, not a list.
I just said well, okay, a listof ludicrous songs.
You could not.
Okay, well, it's true Anywaypoor Swing Angel, I can't
remember who it's by.
I'm pretty sure it's MuscatineBloodline, but I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
I was flipping a house in South Carolina and I
was working by myself one nightand I just had music blaring.
I don't remember what I wasdoing, but I was just working by
myself and that song came on, Ijust kind of stopped.
Yeah, and I just remembersitting down I was like, yeah,
that's—.
The lyrics are really sweet,yeah, it is really cool because
it just kind of speaks of— wehave a port swing.
(04:53):
We don't really have a frontporch, we have a garage, so we—
Carport, carport, old schoolcarports built.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Our house is old school, it it's a carport, and
so I put it in the carport so itgets sweet.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
I mean, yeah, you enclose it as a garage, it's a
carport, it is a carport, yeah,okay, so that's mine.
How about?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
yours, Mine is the Zac Brown song.
You Make Lovin' you Easy.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Aw Did you do.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
I thought it was going to be the pink pony thing.
Oh you do.
You don't know that and youwould not probably accept that,
but you do make loving you easy.
It's easy to be married to you.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Not always Be careful 95% of the time.
Well, we're excited.
Tonight's a little differentfor us.
We've sat down and we've spenta lot, a lot of hours just
trying to dissect ourrelationship, our marriage.
What was the good, what was thebad, what was the things we
(05:54):
would change?
We believe that all reallysuccessful marriages, or good
relationships, have threecomponents.
Yeah, these would be marriagesbecause they I mean Healthy
marriages, healthy ones.
Yeah, the first part of that isthe personal side of that.
Your, these would be marriagesbecause they I mean Healthy
marriages Healthy ones.
Yes, the first part of that isthe personal side of that.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Your personal health yeah.
That's just not your physicalhealth.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Right, it's emotional , mental and spiritual.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
And spiritual.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
So those are all kind of like part of that, like your
personality, who you are, howyou process information, how you
all those things are part ofyou Knowing you how you were,
how you process information, howyou all those things are part
of you Knowing you how you werebeing emotional intelligence all
that fun stuff.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
So that's number one.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Number two is husband and wife as a couple, or a
couple where you're at as acouple.
You may be just together andgoing to get married, but you
may be that couple.
And then the third part is yourfamily.
Yeah, whatever that familylooks like.
So those are the three keyparts.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
We've touched a lot on family health.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Most everything we talk about will fall into those
three categories everything wedo.
But tonight we're going tofocus on the personal side and
something that is peppered intoour story, but we've never been
like outright front with it.
But we just want you to knowour journey of how we got to
where we are in life.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
And who we are as people.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Yeah, just who we are .
And so, with that being said,tonight we're going to talk
about our faith and our faithjourney, of how we got to where
we are and how it's helped usthrough.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
And this is not us forcing our faith on others.
No, it's not us forcing ourfaith on others, no.
But we just want to share thatside of who we are because it's
a big part of our foundation,before we even knew each other.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Correct, yeah, yeah, so who's going first?
Am I going first?
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah, you go ahead and share.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Okay, I'm going to be really quick.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
It's okay if you're not quick, because your story
matters too.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Oh, thank you, that's so sweet.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
You matter.
That's what my shirt says.
If you're not watching us myshirt says you matter.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Okay.
So I grew up in a familyincredible mom, dad was.
I think I've shared some ofthat was kind of Not so great
Right.
Yes, we didn't grow up in church.
We went to church on occasion.
We weren't like regularattenders.
It wasn't a huge part of ourfamily life Still had a great
family.
My mom really cared for us,loved us, did what she could we
(08:15):
just faith was not a huge partof our story.
Right Just to.
I never processed all the hurt,all the pain, all the things
that I went through as a kidwith my dad, so that trauma led
to just drugs and alcohol, justto make a long story short.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
You were trying to band-aid it.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Yes, I was trying to hide it and blame everyone else
and become a victim and sayingwoe is me.
My dad was this way and so I dothis.
I had already had a couplerun-ins with the police before I
got out of high school, and sothat just tells you the
trajectory I was on.
I had some friends who alwaysinvited me to church.
(08:53):
I just never went.
They would go and I thought itwas weird.
They would have like a CDburnings or record burnings and
this weird stuff, and I would go, dig out the really good CDs
that they were trying to burnand take those home with me.
So it was just like I didn'thate church.
I didn't really.
I just really didn't have aneed for it.
(09:14):
I didn't think I needed it inmy life.
Yeah, I could figure it outmyself.
Well, long story short, thedrugs got heavier, alcohol
became more, everything justprogressed into something else
and it got to a point to whereI'm like I can't, I can't manage
this anymore.
And I'd had a friend who keptinviting me to church, invited
me to church, invited me tochurch, and I would politely
(09:36):
just tell him no every time hewould and I never really said.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
And then but you were the nicest, not so great guy
you were never mean.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
I was probably the nicest, was not-so-great guy.
I really was.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
You were never mean, I was probably one of the nicest
drug dealer, alcohol dealersthat I've known.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
I was very kind, very nice guy.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Right, yes.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
And.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
I did— I just want to make sure you paint the picture
correctly, because you'vealways been a like quote-unquote
good guy.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Yeah, I wasn't mean.
Yeah, and I have—I did do—Ididn't deal heavy drugs, you
know, just like pot and simplethings.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Okay, I wasn't that far into that scene.
I didn't mean for you to haveto share that Okay.
I was just saying I didn't wantyou to paint the picture that
you were a really like bad guy.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
All through my life I'd always said I don't want to
be like my dad.
I don't want to be like my dad,I don't want to be this way.
And I had this awakening momentwhere, literally I was.
I had dropped some of my drugsit was the white powder kind
behind a toilet in a littlevolume, and I reached down.
(10:35):
I remember reaching down andI'm on my hands and knees in
this nasty toilet in this bartrying to get a substance and I
was like this is my reality,this is who I am.
I remember getting up from thatand calling friends.
I was like what time is churchin the morning?
He's like oh, it's this time.
I was like cool, I'll be there.
And this was at ChestnutMountain Church.
(10:57):
I went and I remember the guy.
I don't remember a whole lot ofwhat he said, but he was
preaching this message.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
And I went down front .
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Like at you is one of those moments.
Yeah, I was like dude.
This dude's talking to me likenobody else is here.
I remember going down front andI wasn't I mean, I didn't grow
up in church, so I wasn'tchurched at all and I was like
dude, if what you're saying isreal and this is real.
What do I need to do?
Because this is all I got.
I've trashed everything I have.
This is what I got and Iremember praying and he got up
(11:31):
and he goes, okay, and I waslike that's it.
And he goes, yeah, and he goes,chase after him now, chase
after God.
And I was like, done, you cando that.
And so it was a very, verySouthern Baptist church.
The next day they literally arelike, hey, we go, all people
who are visiting, you get thesecards and we split up and you
get to go with a deacon or anelder.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
I still can't believe that you were the very next day
to visitation.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
I did.
He said chase after him.
So I was like I'm going to go.
If the church was open, I'mgoing to go, show up and do
whatever it is they're doing.
I never visited anybody atchurch.
I didn't even know what to say.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Like they were going out to share the gospel.
You didn't know where you weregoing for sure.
I had no idea, you just showedup.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
You show up and they give you these cards.
And I was with a guy.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
I remember we were there and I was like and so it
was Monday night visitation yes,and most of the time you would
take your guest visitor card andyou would go visit those guests
that just visited your churchthat day.
Yeah, and so that's what youwere doing.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yes, I was on that visitation train and, just so
you know it's not highly public,there was like maybe six people
there and I was one of the six.
Yeah, so we had two cards.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
It's a small crowd for a Monday night visitation.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yeah, it's not a big crowd gatherer.
So I remember going and weknocked on these two people's
door and they weren't there andI was like, well, what do we do
now?
And he goes well, we're justdone.
I was like, bro, no.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
No, we're not.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
I was like, okay, these are friends of mine, and I
was like they may dabble in thedrug scene, but I was like
they're home and they're reallynice people.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
I'm proud of you for giving them like a heads up, but
they had no idea.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
No, they had no idea.
So we go in and we knock on thedoor and they're like Greg,
what's up?
This is the next day, it wasjust the day before and I was
like, hey man, what's up, thisis my buddy I literally had just
met I can't remember who it wasand I remember we're sitting on
the couch and the guy's rollingup a joint, he's smoking it,
about to smoke it, and I waslike, hey, bro, tell him what I
(13:35):
heard yesterday at church.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Your Southern Baptist counterpart.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
I was like tell him the story you told me.
And he's looking at me liketell him what I was, like tell
him what the preacher said, likeI had no idea what was going on
, yeah, and so it was just oneof those kind of he's like okay,
you were so excited right, Iwas I was like bro, you have to
hear what I heard.
Yeah, and some of my buddieswere buddy's houses that night
(14:04):
and I think it was probably themost exciting visitation this
guy had ever had.
He's just like what have Igotten into?
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Yeah, who is this, greg guy?
Speaker 1 (14:12):
So from that launched into my.
If the church was open, I wasthere.
I went and bought a Bible thenext day, and then I showed up
at this Christian bookstore backwhen Amazon wasn't around.
And so I went to the Christianbookstore and they had the CDs
lined up as the number oneseller all the way to the bottom
.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Was the one that used to be in our town.
Yes, in Gainesville.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
And so I walk in and I'm a.
I was a Metallica Pearl JamSound Garden.
That was my jam, you're kind ofgrungy.
Yeah, I love that music.
So I went up and I was like I'mgoing to buy the number one CD
in this Christian bookstore andlisten to it and you got the
Gaither Vocal.
Band Gaither.
Vocal Band.
I don't know if you've heardthem, but you should just Google
(14:54):
Gaither Vocal Band and listento it.
And I was a Pearl Jam likeNirvana, like grunge, nirvana
like grunge, like I liked hardrock.
And I was like man.
If this is Christian music,okay, I don't want it.
I was like this is going to betough.
But I remember I went and satdown and I just started reading
my Bible and I read I think inthe first month I read it.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
I bet you were so happy when, like DC Talk and
Potters of Clay, those guys cameout.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Potters of Clay.
All those guys were like, yes,please, was it POD?
One of those guys were out to,so it was like so I had no idea
and no one was really like me inthe church.
And so there was like hey,there's this mission trip, we're
going on a mission trip.
And I was like, dude, I'm downfor that, what do we do?
And he's like you were allabout adventure.
(15:38):
Yeah, it's like we're just goingout of the country.
We're going to go share, share.
You know a faith, what we did.
We're going to preach and I waslike preach.
He's like, yeah, you stand upand we just telling people about
God and I was like I'm in, I'mdone.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
I was like I got to get permission for my probation
officer first.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
So I had to get my probation into Romania.
It was my first time on a plane, First time out of the country,
Flew to Romania and then stayedin Romania for a couple days
and we went into Ukraine and Iwas in Ukraine for about a week
and I actually I mean I had beena Christian literally maybe 15
(16:15):
minutes.
Yeah, like just a few months,and I remember the guy, he was
the worship leader.
It was Black Sheep Place, it'sThomas Christ Place now.
He gave me the microphone.
He goes I feel like God'stelling me to share, just get up
and share.
And I was like yes, sir, and Igrabbed the mic, stood up and I
just started talking and we didthat for a week.
We would do that two or threetimes a day for a solid week,
(16:39):
and I remember coming back I wassitting in a hotel room on the
ledge and there was a lot ofmilitary unrest in Romania at
that time.
This was a long time ago folks,and you were on the balcony.
I remember sitting out on thebalcony and I was just sitting
there and I could see the tanksjust rolling around and I could
hear as clearly as day Godsaying he was calling me.
(17:00):
He's like.
Your life now is about servingothers and that was so clear to
me.
I didn't know what that lookedlike.
I didn't know what that meant.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
So when I got back I was like you didn't realize that
was like an actual call toministry at that point.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
No, I was just like I don't know, I don't know the
church words to say I was likedude.
I'm just going to serve people,I'm going to love on people.
And so I got back and I wasjust like, okay, I'm in and I
started reading.
I think my first year I readthrough the Bible, cover to
cover, like four times.
It was just like sponge, justgive me everything you got.
I had a buddy of mine who I metthrough some of the students
(17:36):
there a little later in collegeand we started going and doing
street witnessing in Atlanta andso we would go every Friday
night.
They would do a homelessministry and they would feed
people.
At the corner of Lucky andSpringer there's a church it was
North Metro, I think.
It was set up and they wouldgrill hot dogs for homeless
people.
And so we went and did that.
We're like you know what?
We're going to go meet thesehomeless people where they're at
and just talk to them.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
You're leading up to one of my favorite stories of
your whole Christian walk.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
So we went to our college.
We were at college I don't knowwhy they let me in college they
asked me to leave after alittle bit.
Anyway, a story for a differentday, that's a different story.
But when you go to college theywould give you these care
packages.
It had toothpaste, toothbrush,all the shaving stuff.
So I went and asked the people.
I was like what do you do withall the leftovers?
And they was like well, we justgive them away.
(18:24):
And I was like, well, we'redoing homeless ministry, can I
have them?
She goes, yes.
So a buddy of mine, shane, and I, a buddy of ours, we had boxes
and boxes and I mean likehundreds of these things.
So we broke them down and westarted making little care
packages and we would go toAtlanta and we would hand these
things out.
And we saw this need.
We're like, dude, nobody comesdown here and really cares for
these people.
So it's like you know whatwe're going to do.
We're going to feed all thesepeople on Thanksgiving.
(18:45):
So we're going to come downhere on Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Day, but that area now is what?
Speaker 1 (18:49):
It is now Olympic Park.
It's now.
They mowed it all down.
It was Techwood at the time.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
It was awful.
Well, I say awful it wasdangerous.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
It was a very dangerous town.
Like cops would see us and belike, hey, what are y'all doing?
Why are you here?
And we're like we're justgiving stuff to homeless people
Talking.
He's like, don't call me ifthat stuff goes sideways.
Like you don't need to be here.
We've got that all the time.
Walked into so many drug dealsI can't count on one hand
Encountered some demon-possessedpeople, weird.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Weird, weird but anyway, always referred to as
your fishes and loaves story.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
So we were feeding.
We were going to feed people onThanksgiving, so we had a buddy
of ours, Todd Robinson, which Ilove dearly, has like we're
like, dude, we're getting agrill, we want to feed people.
He goes, man, I got somechicken and hot dogs.
He owns a food.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
That's what he sounds like.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Awesome dude, best dude.
I love this guy.
Do anything in the world forhim.
Good old country boy, verytalented musician, by the way.
But, anyway, he gave us tons ofthese hot dogs and chicken.
We just pulled the grill downto the back of our truck and we
just had all these signs.
We're like we're just going tostart handing out food to
anybody who wants to show up.
So we pulled up in an emptyparking lot.
This is how planned.
We were Pulled up in an emptyparking lot, got food here.
(20:04):
Well, all of a sudden, there'shundreds upon hundreds and
hundreds of people there andwe're like, uh, we're gonna run
out of food and so we're allsitting around.
You know, it's like, what arewe doing?
We're like, I don't know, youwant to be religious and be like
, well, let's pray, let's prayabout it.
And I was like, okay, so we allget in this circle and we're
like I mean, it was one of thosesimple prayers, like, okay, god
wasn't very churchy.
We're like I mean, it was oneof those simple prayers, like
(20:26):
okay, god it wasn't very churchy.
We're here feeding homelesspeople and we're about to run
out of food.
We need food.
We need food to get thesepeople.
Amen, that was about it.
As soon as that prayer finished, these four white vans, like
catering vans, come pulling upand the guy I think it was Shane
or somebody come and we go overand he's like hey, man, we had
(20:46):
a big party plan, party canceled.
We got all this food.
We saw you guys feeding people.
Do you need this food?
It's one of those momentsyou're just like you can't not
get emotional about that.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah, you're just like whoa.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
It's one of those moments in life where you're
like there's something so muchbigger.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
And who am I to be a part of that?
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Yeah, it's like you heard that, like somebody heard
that.
Um, but it was just, it wascrazy.
Those times made me kind of gooh okay, god, whatever, whatever
you leave, wherever you open adoor, I'm going to run through
that which led to which is crazyenough which led to me becoming
an ordained minister at thatchurch.
(21:29):
I worked at that church forseven, eight years.
Did everything from studentministry to college ministry to
loved it, had a blast, wasawesome.
Left that did a job with mybuddy.
Then wound up with another jobat Truffle and Church.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
After we got married.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Yes, doing, I didn't and I did all their small groups
.
They were expanding from fourcampuses eight campuses.
They needed some helpfacilitating that, building
small groups and curriculum andall that.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
So I did that.
You had a hand in hiring thecampus pastors too.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
A few of the campus pastors, which are amazing guys.
Love you, trey, anyway, it's a—.
And Paul yeah, I didn't hirePaul, no, but anyway it was— we
still love you A little bit.
So I worked there for aboutfour and a half years, so four
or five years, I can't rememberexactly.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
I think it was five.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Then left there and then wound up at River Bend as
an executive pastor positionthere.
What's crazy is I never, ever,applied for any of those church
jobs From the beginning.
Yeah, I never went hunting forone of them.
I never submitted a resume.
I never submitted anythingother than just saying those
doors will open for me, and itwas just a reminder that a guy
(22:41):
can do whatever he wants.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
He sure can.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Yeah, so that's my faith journey that's led me to
here.
I'm not your normal Christian.
That's what people would see asa Southern Baptist Christian.
I think I'm pretty normal.
I mean I have a lot of tattoos,but they all tell my faith
story.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
I mean, I do too and mine also tell my story.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
I like to drink a little bit.
I have a drink every now andthen and you know it's like, but
I'm in the Southern Baptistworld or in the Southern culture
.
People are like, oh my gosh,but it's like.
No, I love Jesus, I love peopleand I want to serve them and
serve Him.
And so it looks a littledifferent for other people, but
that's okay, you don't have tofit into the mold that I think
you have to fit into.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
And that's okay.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
But anyway, that's my journey.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
My faith journey looks a lot different.
And that's okay.
I did grow up in church.
I did have a mama that took meto church and a grandmother that
made sure I was there, and mydad didn't go to church with me
and us until I was older.
That's his story to tell in hisjourney.
(23:47):
But till I was I mean literallyuntil I was 20, he supported us
being there.
He was not against it, and nowhe's there every time the doors
are open.
But my mom always made surethat I was in church and then
later, when my brother was born,my brother was there as well.
I became a Christian when I was12.
(24:07):
And for me, at such a young age, having grown up there, it was
not this.
Now it is a life alteringmoment, don't take me wrong.
But it was not this big lightbulb moment because I had
already learned everything,because that's where I grew up
and that's just what I knew, butwhen?
That's the age that I realized,oh, but it is for me.
(24:32):
So, being young and I was alwaysinvolved in church and at youth
and helping at Bible school.
I went to one of those.
You did.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
I used to go to Bible schools.
No-transcript.
You did?
I used to go to Bible schools.
My mom would take me to those.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
I was singing in the youth choir and then all the
time in church.
That did lead to my firstmarriage, but when I started
dating TJ in high school I waslike one of the things you have
to do if you date me you have togo to church.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Now, he wasn't a church goer at the time.
No, no.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
He was kind of like you, like that he would go to
Bible school or whatever, we hada lot of same friends.
You did have a lot of samefriends, yeah.
So when we got married rightaround that same time is when he
was called to ministry becausehe had just gotten so head over
heels in love with serving atchurch and God called him to
ministry.
(25:29):
A little bit similar path toowith youth pastor and helping
with college and career andy'all kind of ran the same
circle as youth pastors.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
It's interesting because I met him at a couple of
youth things and and we had aroundtable thing you did, but I
didn't know him personally.
No, I just met him, but I nevermet you.
I didn't know you at all, no,so that's kind of strange, yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
And then I've always kind of laughed at like I've
been married to two pastors.
It's like, do I attract pastors?
I don't know.
But I'm okay with that.
But as far as like I don't havelike a fishes and loaves story
in my faith like you do.
But you know, that's a veryreal God moment for you and a
(26:17):
very real God moment for me wasafter Erin Grace was born.
She was born premature.
She was about six weekspremature and we found out when
she was about two weeks old thatshe had congestive heart
failure and she was a very, verysick baby.
You already know all this, butshe was a very sick baby.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
These folks don't.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Our friends, don't?
My teeny, tiny baby had twoholes in the top part of her
heart and one gigantic hole inthe bottom of her heart.
So basically her oxygenatedblood was almost not oxygenated
where it should be and where itgoes to the other chambers where
it's supposed to exchangeoxygen.
It just did not.
(26:54):
And then her little liver wasworking overtime trying to pump
all that fluid out.
But again, she was two weeksold before we found out at her
literal two-week checkup.
So anyway, she was a very sicklittle one and she was on a lot
of medications and we were atthe doctor all the time,
cardiologists and specialists,and we were at two different
(27:16):
cardiologists just to make sure,and it's just a whole long
story, yeah, anyway, so us andthe whole church, our family,
friends, everybody was prayingfor her healing.
And then, but TJ and I haddecided, like, of course we're
going to pray for her healingbecause that's obviously what we
want for her.
But then we were also prayingof you know, if you choose not
(27:37):
to heal her, then give us thestrength to give her the care
that she needs, because her allof the doctors told us that you
know, we won't know what kind ofquality of life she'll have
till she's five.
So it was a lot to handle whenwe had a two and a half year old
Thomas.
Wild man, all boy already, justlike wild.
Thank God for all thegrandparents and great
(28:00):
grandparents that were around,because, whoa, I'm trying to go
to the doctor with Erin Graceliterally every week.
Anyway, so Fast forward about18 months later, after we've
been the doctor over and overagain, we were preparing at 18
months for her first open heartsurgery.
That was to take place rightbefore she was two, and there
(28:24):
was a first time.
Tj had not gone with me to oneof her cardiology appointments.
He had some kind of meeting hecouldn't get out of, and so I
went and blessed her littleteeny heart.
She was so accustomed to it.
She'd either take a bottlewhile she was having her EKG
done and the echo done or, asshe got a little bit older, I
would give her sugar-freedum-dums.
(28:44):
And so she was sitting there.
At that point it was her suckerand she was just slobbery
sugary.
But she was just sitting theretaking all the tests and all.
Well, it was faster than normaland I was like, okay, that's
just the same, whatever.
So let's make a plan and thetech that was in there was a
gentleman that had done most ofher testing and he was like I'm
going to go get Dr Carpenter.
(29:05):
This is Lady Jillian Carpenter.
She was amazing, dr Carpenter.
He said I'm going to go get her, I'll be right back, you can go
ahead and dress Erin.
I was like okay.
And so Dr Carpenter said meetme in my office.
And I was like, oh boy, okay.
So I cleaned Erin Gracie and wewere going to her office and Dr
Carpenter said so I want to showyou some new pictures.
And I was like, okay, and I hadalready learned what Erin's
(29:28):
heart heart looked like.
And she said I want to show youhere, here and here.
And she circled the threeplaces where her little holes
not little, her gigantic holeshad been and she said they're
gone.
And she said and I don't, I'mgoing to get emotional.
She said I don't know how toexplain it and I was like, but I
(29:59):
do, yeah.
And so that probably was myfirst like faith crisis of is
God who he says he is, and is hethe healer that he says he is?
And I know that he is.
And so it was fascinating andjust like whoa, you know all.
At the same time I'm holdingthis tiny little baby.
That's so sickly.
But then I'm like oh, wait aminute, okay, here we go.
And that just turned everythingaround Right.
So that was a huge portion ofmy faith journey, until later on
(30:24):
.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Yeah.
So I mean, I don't want to saylike, oh, okay, so you had a
moment of crisis, Like whathappened when you really pushed.
But you, I mean that's a hugepush.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Yeah, that's a huge push, especially in your faith.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
So for you I would say how did you handle when TJ
passed away?
What did that do to your faithjourney?
What happened there?
Speaker 2 (30:50):
It was kind of interesting because now that
I've shared that, I really didreflect back on that of of aaron
grace's experience because Iwas like, okay, I was literally
told this baby might die right,and I'm not going to know, like
if you're, if you're told you're, where we are collectively, we
(31:11):
are not going to know what kindof quality of life this child is
going to have until she's five.
But in mine and TJ's life andour family, our church family,
it was like, but God, I meanhonestly so but sometimes our
prayers don't get answeredexactly, and that's a handful of
(31:33):
episodes ago, when I referredto that verse that was etched on
that little rock thing that Idid find if you've been
listening all along where it was, you know all things work for
good for those who love God.
I kept going back to that verseand after TJ died, I was just
like, what possible good isthere in this?
(31:53):
There's not any for me, there'snot any for my kids.
Like, what are people supposedto learn from this Me?
Like, what are we supposed tolearn?
So through counseling?
A Christian-based counselor waswhat I chose for me, because
that's what spoke to the core ofwho I am, because that's what
spoke to the core of who I am,helped me to learn.
(32:14):
Number one it's okay to be,excuse me, but it's okay to be
pissed off about what happened.
Right, 100%, like I have everyright and God agreed with me.
I had every right to be madabout what happened.
But also, after months andmonths and months, okay, now
what I had to choose for myself,what?
(32:37):
What do I do with that anger?
Do I choose to be bitter therest of my life and live in that
area, or do I choose to stillbe the kind of person I always
have been and look for good.
I couldn't find it for severalmonths.
Yeah.
I just I couldn't, but I had torelearn how to look for what the
(32:58):
definition of good even is.
It didn't look like what I hadpictured.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Right.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
But I had to also be okay with that too.
Yeah, what about you Now, allthat, what I said of you know,
when the crisis of a, you know,a crisis of faith have happened,
what did that look for?
Speaker 1 (33:18):
you though like when you're, I mean yeah, your
marriage fell apart yeah, well,I didn't handle mine quite as
good as yours I didn't alwaysseem like good, but I I tried um
I I didn't want to haveanything to a church.
Yeah, I didn't want to haveanything to do with church.
Yeah.
I didn't want to have anythingto do with God.
I didn't want to listen toworship music I don't want to
listen to.
I don't have anything to dowith it.
(33:40):
I mean, if I'm honest, I evenwent through a time where I
burned some furniture in mybackyard, set fire to it and
just burned it, and I had abuddy of mine set fire to it,
just burned it.
And I had a buddy of mine that Ilove dearly, corey Fabian,
literally showed up and just satwith me for a day, almost a day
(34:00):
and a half, sometimes two days,and would never say a word.
He just would sit with me and Iwould just sit there sometimes
and just cry, and sometimes hewould just put his arm around me
and we would just sit theretogether, which was huge.
He didn't have to say anything.
But I was mad.
I busted the front window outof my truck.
I punched it one morning.
I was mad.
(34:23):
So to say, I didn't handle my—Iwas angry.
I was just mad because I waslike I thought I've done
everything the way that I wastold the church told me what to
do.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
That's exactly what I was about to say.
Yeah, although I mean thescenarios are different, but you
and I both and we've talkedabout this over and over again
we both were doing all the quoteunquote right things in our
separate ministries.
Well, what?
The ways we were living ourlives separately of we're doing
all the things that we'resupposed to be doing.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Well, right, considering what, the church
being the building you go tosometimes.
Yeah, I believe the church isthe people, is us, is you, I
believe it resides within us,but it's the idea for me is like
I was doing all those thingsyou told me to do.
I did those.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
We were tithing, we were serving, we were living our
life the way, and I was like Iwas doing all those things you
told me to do.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
I did those we were tithing, we were serving, we
were living our life the way,and I was like this is what
happens.
So I was just mad and I alwayskept referring to because I just
felt like I was like, okay,god's left me, like he just left
and I'm done with this.
And that was when that momentof and I've shared this earlier,
I think when I was just after Ipunched my window out, burned
furniture, I was drinking alittle too much, and I realized
(35:39):
at least I had enough awarenessto go.
What I'm looking for is notfound in this.
Yeah.
I didn't make great decisions,just hear me.
I was just trying to keep myhead above water and I was
burning bridges and messing uppeople.
I was just, I was a hurt personand I was hurting people that
were in my path, and that's whatit was, and that was not pretty
(36:00):
.
But I remember that nightlaying in my in the floor in the
bathroom, just sobbing, just,and it was that audible voice
again, the same audible voice Iheard in Romania Get up.
Yeah, I was just like get up.
And I got up.
I remember sitting on the sideof the tub in that house and
he's like OK, are you done?
And I was like, well, crap, Iguess.
(36:23):
So, yeah, I guess, I am, I suream.
Yes, sir, all right, so I guessI am.
And so it was that.
But for me it was like as muchas I cussed him every morning on
the way to work, I was mad athim.
I didn't want to have, Iwouldn't read my Bible, I wasn't
doing the things that God lovedme anyway.
And he still loved me, nomatter what I did, and he loved
(36:46):
me through the hurt and the pain.
He didn't go anywhere, he wasalways there, and so it was.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
What's crazy to think about, though, this is as a
Christian, for you and I,because we've talked about a
little bit, just not on thepodcast, but it's like that same
God that saved you from thelife you were already, you were
trying your best to trash wasthe same God that was still
loving you through that periodof time.
Was the same God that was stillloving you through that period
of time, and, for me to thinkback of, that's the same God
(37:22):
that literally healed mydaughter from death.
Is the same God that allowedher dad to be, killed in an
accident.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Faith is not a neat package you put together.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
It's not pretty.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
Yeah.
And when you go in somewhere,if somebody tells you, oh, this
is going to be, all you got todo is pray this prayer.
Everything's going to be fine.
That's not the full truth.
There's more to that.
It's hard.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Yeah, because sometimes you have to put the
rubber to the road, or whateverphrase I'm trying to think of.
Sometimes you have to be likeno, I actually do believe this,
and now I have to act like it,even though it hurts so bad.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Yeah, so wherever you are, like, that's like this our
unpacked section is going tolook a little different tonight.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Yeah, today or whatever it is, I don't even
know Whatever time you want tosay this.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
We knew that this episode would be a little
different than others, could bea little heavy, it could be it
is.
But I want to share with yousomething, though like wherever
you are at in life, if you'reriding your car, drinking your
coffee, wherever you're at,you're in one of three places
You're in a storm, you just cameout of a storm or you're about
to go into a storm.
Yeah, you're in one of thosethree places.
(38:37):
It just reminds me of.
I used to leave thesebackpacking trips out of
Montreat College and this wasthe last day and we all had to
come back into this.
It was a seven-day trip,backpacking trip, and so we had
to come back into we were comingback.
It was the last night we had tospend.
So we're looking for somewhereand we're on the side of Mount
(38:58):
Mitchell and, if you don't know,it's a really big mountain
outside of Asheville and weatherblows in really, really quick,
and so I left my group.
I was like you guys, hang outhere for a second.
I'm going to go down themountain, look for a place to
camp.
I'll be back to get you.
I said, okay, cool, while I'mdown there, I feel the wind
picking up, I feel it gettingcooler.
I was like here comes a storm.
I got to go, so I take offrunning back up this trail up to
(39:20):
the mountain.
I get up there and it is justdumping rain and it's lightning
and you could feel the stormcoming.
I was like we're not in it.
And they're like, hey, we allgot these tarps and we set them
up and they're all standing inthis massive puddle of rain next
to this massive, massive tree,the big tree, and I was like
that's an awesome idea, but wedon't need to be here right now.
(39:42):
This is a big fat, no yeah weneed to get out from under this
tarp and we need to scatter out.
And they're like why?
And I was like so?
If lightning hits, it doesn'thit all of us, it only hits one
or two of us.
And then the girls startfreaking out and people start
screaming and they're crying,and I was just.
I remember this.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
I have to do a side note real fast.
Okay.
Because I didn't know anythingabout weather, much till.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Oh, don't share this.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
At our previous house that we lived at, we had a pool
and it was you and I and thiswas before my brother and his
wife, corey and Brittany, hadchildren, and all four of our
kids were just maniacs all overthe place and you were like, oh,
it's about to storm.
And that pool did have abeautiful view of the sky and we
were like you're insane, thesun is still out.
(40:31):
And he was like Greg whoo.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
I said, if there's one thing I know, it's weather
patterns.
And this, many years later.
And you thought it was the mosthilarious thing, brittany and I
.
But what did it do that day?
Speaker 2 (40:41):
It did.
Thank you.
But Brittany and I thought itwas the funniest thing.
Yeah, so every time.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Now it's about to rain, they go.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
If there's, we thought it was it is true.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Thank you for ruining my story.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
But it's true, you were correct.
The moral of the story is thatyou were correct.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
So we're out and I have these people, these high
school kids, lined up and I havethem separated and I was like
you get in lightning strikeposition and like what is that?
I was like you put your kneestogether and you hunker down and
I was like they're like why?
I was like so if the lightninghits the ground, it goes up
through one leg, goes to theknee and it goes out the other
foot.
I was like it won't hit yourvital organs.
(41:20):
That didn't help instill likesafety in them and so they're
crying and I was like don'tworry, cpr is highly effective
with lightning strikes and I'mcertified, so we're all good.
I would have been for thecrying crew.
It is dumping, I mean it's.
I mean, when it lightens and ithits, like the ground shaking,
it's that close, like we're highup on this mountain, it's just
(41:44):
pounding us, yeah, and I keep, Ikeep walking up and down this
line.
I was like just hang in herebecause the storm's going to be
gone in a minute.
Just keep hanging in herebecause it's going to be gone in
a minute.
Like this storm's going to pass, it's going to pass.
Did they believe you?
No, they were screaming andcrying and some of the guys were
trying to act all cool andthey're like, yeah, this is
awesome and I'm like, but anyway, finally the storm did pass by,
(42:07):
right, and we're all standingthere soaking wet.
And I was just like okay, let'sgrab our bags and head down to
go camp.
And you know there are a lot oftrauma there that we didn't
process or work through.
But in life, that's literallywhere we're at.
And it's true, some storms arejust like oh, it just blows in
just really quick, it'ssomething simple, and some hang
(42:30):
out for a while, some cause alot of destruction, some just
wreck your life, but no, so,with that being said, you're in
one of those three places andwhat grounds you, though?
I mean, that's the question forour friends yeah, I sort of say
you're asking me, but I thoughtwe're unpacking here, you okay?
Speaker 2 (42:46):
but to unpack.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
We're asking our friends what grounds you when
you're in those storms yeah,like what's your, I think for me
it it's almost the question ofwhat's your true north, like
what's guiding you.
And there's two avenues.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
Yeah, I mean there may be some debate in that, but
for us there's two avenues.
Is it a faith-based avenue?
Are you a Christian?
Is that what grounds you as acouple it's not just individual
Like, do you share the samefaith as your partner?
What happens if you don't?
(43:22):
You know, do you support oneanother in your faith journey?
Or, you know, even if you are aChristian, you may not have yet
had a true.
I don't say true.
You may not have felt likeyou've had a test of your faith
yet.
Right.
But at some point it will happenand a storm may come.
(43:44):
You know what grounds you inthat.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Oh, they're coming, yeah.
And so the idea is, even ifyou're not on that faith journey
and you haven't been, I thinkthat's the question to ask, like
, what am I trusting in?
What do I trust?
What am I, like you saygrounding?
I'm like what am I anchoringmyself to?
What's my hope?
Speaker 2 (44:05):
I mean, that's the question for Christian and
non-Christian.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
Right, of course.
And when I say Christian, Idon't mean someone who goes to
church and sings songs anddoesn't cuss or drink or hang
out with people who do.
That was always the phrase thateverybody said and I was like I
don't understand that, like Ishould be hanging out with those
people, but anyway, that's adifferent podcast.
I'm not talking about that.
I'm talking about somethingthat's real life in relationship
(44:29):
, in your life.
You're pursuing, you're chasing, so it's not.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
If you don't have that, where do you turn when you
face a storm?
And that's not for you and I toanswer.
No, these are questions tothink about your own self.
You know, where do you findhope?
Right.
And you know what's holding you.
And, like what you said, whatis your true north?
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Right, because we don't.
I mean we don't talk about ourfaith a lot on here, because I
don't want people to, I don't.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
I'm not going to Bible beat people, no we're not
going to shove our faith downyour throat, but that's just a
really big piece of who we are.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Yeah, it kind of keeps us centered and focused in
our lives as we move forward,because marriage is hard and
blended families are hard.
It is, and so—.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Lifing is hard.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
Yeah, as you're asking yourselves those
questions what's your true north?
What's grounding you?
What's your hope in man?
Take some time and just sitdown and ask those questions to
each other.
Just have some discussionaround it.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
It's not easy discussions either.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
No.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
I mean the first million times we've talked about
these stories with each other,of what we've been through is.
It was not easy.
I mean now we know each other'sstories inside and out, but as
we went through and we figuredout, OK, we're putting this
together.
I need to know where you're atas a person so that we can put
(45:52):
this together as a couple, as aunit for our family.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
Gotcha yeah 100%.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
And our friends need to know how to do that too.
They do If you have questions.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
Yeah, if you have questions, if you want to chat
about it, you know how to catchus on all the socials.
There's actually even a place,too, if you're listening to this
, where you can actually tap inFAN and you can text in the
podcast and we get thosenotifications.
We'll be happy to set up, evenlike a FaceTime or Zoom,
whatever you're comfortable withor, if you're near us to set up
(46:25):
time to sit down, whatever itmay be Like our goal, just so
you guys know, our goal inBaggage Claim is to help people
through marriage.
That's it.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
And to be completely transparent as we do it.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Yes, and sometimes that's not pretty and sometimes
it is yeah.
So thank you guys for joiningin.
Thank you for sharing ourpodcast.
It's growing each week, butmake sure to you know if you're
listening on any one of ourother channels.
Make sure to like, subscribe,um and just join us.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
So thank you yeah.
Love you guys.
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