November 20, 2025 • 33 mins
Matt's take in this episode is that stay and place are often used so much that it becomes abusive. He and Nelson dive into both commands and discuss appropriate and inappropriate uses for them. If you are interested in ensuring that your dogs and your clients dogs have a great life this episode is a can't miss.
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(00:10):
Sit, stay, press playing. Let's begin.
Welcome to the pack. You are officially in.
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Big dogs, small dogs, every kind.
If you love canine soon and rewind, laugh and learn, level
up your game. Suburban canine remember the
name. What's up, Nelson?
(00:35):
How are you buddy? I wish your last statement was
live on the air, but it's it's too late so we're just going to
have to dive into. Home and past.
So today we're doing the problemwith a stay command.
Yes. And this, I mean, this is my my
baby. I suggested it.
Did we even really spend enough time talking about why I wanted
(00:58):
to do this one? And no.
No, definitely. Not so you're coming in blind.
So I, I guess let me just frame this for people listening.
The whole point of training a dog is so they have a good life
and at least for me, right, not being into sport dogs,
competition, whatever the entirereason for it is.
(01:19):
So they have a good life and youhave a good life and like
everything's fun. So there's me for me, really no
other or no higher reason than that.
You have a good life and you're not stressed out about your dog
and they're able to enjoy as much of your life with you as
possible based upon, you know, limits that dogs can't go
everywhere. So I'm not anti stay command in
(01:41):
the sense of that. I don't think it should exist or
ever be used, but I think it's really overused by some people.
And I think it then starts to decrease the dog's quality of
life for two reasons. One is they spend too much time
in the command. And two is it hides from core
issues. The issues don't get fixed and
(02:01):
then the dog can't be in those scenarios and be free and just
enjoy life. So that's that's where I'm
coming at it from. I've had a couple scenarios
lately brought to my attention of clients and other trainers
doing things that I consider borderline abusive and not
abusive like as in like physically hurting the dog, but
(02:24):
I'd call borderline abusive fromthe dog just having a shitty
life with how much And I'm saying stay, but also place
command. I, I consider place just to be,
you know, stay in this certain spot.
So I'm, I see it a lot with bothof these.
One of these was the scenarios that I'm thinking of was stay.
The other was place. But I'm kind of conflating the
(02:44):
two things here because they're so similar to me.
So that's where I'm coming from here and I've seen it a lot over
the years, but these two bothered me more.
Some of the things I've just heard.
And then I know there's this goes on a lot all around the
country and all around the world.
So just wanted to spend some time talking about it.
Definitely. Do you want any clarification
(03:06):
from my overall thought or wheredo you want to go from here?
I think because we've talked about similar stuff,
particularly like place command,right where I think I have a
pretty solid idea where you're coming from.
And a lot of it comes down to not in the fact of these
commands can be useful in certain situations because
(03:26):
clearly they can, not that they shouldn't be taught because if
we teach them, I probably teach place more than you do, but you
know, we do teach them. And your big gripe is when the
dog is spending way more time incontainment, whether it's a
crate, place, command or a stay,instead of just kind of free
(03:50):
roaming. Because the dog is good enough
to be free roaming, correct? Yeah, for sure.
I mean, and there's just so manynuances here.
And for sure to be clear, if you're another trainer listening
and you use a lot of place or stay, like this isn't meant to
be a critique. I'm hoping you're not abusing
(04:11):
it. If you're a client of another
trainer and they're using it a lot, I'm not necessarily saying
like that what you're doing is bad.
I want you to think about it andmaybe what you're doing is bad,
I don't know, but there's a goodchance you're could love place
and love stay and use it a lot and not be overusing it.
And to be clear of something I don't think is unfair.
(04:33):
I'm not saying you shouldn't proof the stay command.
So I do that a lot, right? Like I put a dog in a stay until
we can create any reasonable distraction.
Another dog running by throwing a treat, throwing a ball,
ringing the doorbell. So I'm not anti stay or place by
any stretch, but we need to get away from it.
(04:53):
And I guess what I've heard multiple times from a few
trainers recently is that dogs need a lot of place and a lot of
stay in order to self regulate. And the in my opinion the
average dog should not need that.
If they can't self regulate in their day-to-day life, something
(05:15):
is amiss. Like I don't know what, Maybe
they're not getting exercised, maybe you're just not
disciplining the naughty stuff they're doing.
I don't know. But if it's long term.
And so by long term, I don't mean like you just got your dog
back from a trainer and they sayI want you to do place during
dinner every night to make sure you can control them.
That's great through time. You shouldn't need that.
Your dog should be chill after doing that enough that you go to
(05:38):
eat dinner and they're like nothing for me there and they
just go lay down and chew a bone.
So that's a couple thoughts, butthe self regulation.
I've seen a few things lately that are driving me bananas with
the idea that dogs need huge amounts of place and stay
otherwise they just can't self regulate.
So I'm going to play devil's advocate for a tiny bit because
(06:03):
I have my own gripes, you know, with, with stay and with place
and, and how trainers use them and how clients use them.
So, you know, we are in agreement at the end of the day,
But I, there are a couple of things that I've heard people
say and then some that I agree with too.
So the big one that I hear and Iand the word self regulated, I
(06:25):
haven't heard used, but it does kind of bring me to this.
And I'm assuming that's what they're meaning by it.
And we tell clients all the time, Hey, you can get your dog
to recognize certain patterns orcertain times of the day and
their body will naturally get more excited or less excited
(06:47):
based on what's going on. You know, a very common one
would be every time you sit downon the couch, they bring a ball
and you throw it. And so every time you want to
relax, they get excited. And then you feel like you can
never relax, right, because yourdog is just constantly wanting
to play. What, what I've seen and what
(07:08):
other peoples have talked about is if you use place command now
I'm, I am kind of cheating here.And then what I mean by cheating
is in training, you know, a young dog who is in training or
just got back from a boarding train or something along those
lines. You can teach them that, hey,
certain times of the day or certain activities need to be
(07:30):
calm and you are essentially helping them regulate their
excitement level to then corresponding to your lifestyle.
So hey, every time it's dinnertime I don't want my dogs
to get super excited or be running around either during the
cooking process or during the eating, and I'd like them to go
lay down and chew a bone, you know?
Place command consistently couldget them to feel that way,
(07:55):
right? Yes.
So if you have a set goal and you're going to use it for a
while with the plan of stopping to use it once.
Getting off of the command. Then yes, and then I have
clients do that, right? Like during dinner, maybe you do
a down stay every night during dinner for the next two weeks.
And trust me, unless your dogs are psycho after two weeks, you
(08:18):
don't put them in a down stay. You're going to be a different
dog because he's going to have learned.
You know how you know how to be calm in that scenario?
What I don't like is the broaderbrush of like them, they're
going to learn. So laying down when you don't
want to does not sound fun, right?
So let's say you're hyper and you want to play and you've got
(08:41):
you're not super playful Nelson,but you want to go to the gym,
you want to get some energy out and then Taylor's like no, sit
there quietly for the next hour.That sucks.
That really, really, really sucks.
And that's how I see people using stay in place.
What I would say to a client is if they say I want to watch a
(09:02):
movie and I want my dog to lay there, I would first push back
and say like, why do we want thedog to lay there?
Don't we just want the dog to not like, I don't know, RIP
stuff up or jump on you or like bark, like why do we care if the
dog lays there? And if they say I want to keep
an eye on them, well, could we just set up a crate, I'm sorry,
(09:24):
a gate and keep them in the roomwith you so he could chew a bone
and walk around? Like is it that like that so
essential he needs to lay there and then if it some reason the
answer is yes, he really needs to well, then we should exercise
him first. I don't think it's a very and
like I'm not saying that you shouldn't be able to ask your
(09:45):
dog to stay when they're hyped up, but I'm talking short
duration. So you're at the park, another
dog walks by. You put your dog in a down stay.
I'm not saying like, oh, that's not fair.
He hasn't been exercised. He can't hold a stay.
That's like a minute anyway, Hold it for a minute.
Dog goes by. OK, now you're free.
But if you're going to like, oh,someone just came, rang the
doorbell, dog's going to be in the place command for the next
(10:08):
30 or 40 minutes because this isfor me, not for them.
Did the dog get exercise first? Is it in a play mode?
If it is, I think that's kind ofa shitty thing to do to be like
you're going to be in you lay down for 30 or 40 minutes, don't
do anything. And I know I didn't play with
you first or give you an outlet.I just think that's not fair to
the dog. And that's how I see it often
(10:28):
being used. As opposed to why when the dog
calmed during dinner, why don't why don't we go play fetch
before dinner? Then maybe one spouse cooks
dinner, the other person plays fetch with the dog or does a
training session. The dogs got their wiggles and
everything out and then now we put them in a downstate.
To me it's a whole different thing.
So, and I do agree there, right.One of the things that I see
(10:50):
very often is place command or even a down stay being used as
like a part of the punishment, right?
You did something. So now I need you to come over
here and lay down or something along those lines instead of
with a plan, right of hey, I'm going to go, we're going to play
fetch first. Maybe we'll walk around the
(11:12):
neighborhood really quickly, just kind of cool off.
And then you can come in here, hold the place while chewing a
bone and I'm doing, you know, XYor Z.
The next thing that I would say,which I don't know, you didn't
answer it, but you know, like the answer is probably going to
be very similar to what you justsaid, which makes a ton of sense
(11:33):
if it's between the crate or theplace command.
And those are the only two options because for a lot of
people, those that will be theiroption, right?
Either you go in the crate or you hold this down, stay right
next to me where I can watch youwithout the foresight of I
should be working you out. I should be kind of, you know,
fixing all the problems, that kind of stuff, which I want to
(11:54):
get to later because that is my biggest gripe with any of these
commands. Would you say that place command
is better or down stay is betterthan being in the crate?
I guess it depends on the size of the crate and the dog's
feelings towards it. And you know, for me personally,
(12:15):
I like to get away from crates. So there's times where I put my
dogs up that I don't want them out.
And we've talked about this in this podcast, like if I have a
party with a lot of people over that don't know the dogs, I'm
not, I don't want to watch my dogs.
I don't want to watch idiot people kids or whatever.
And like, and my dogs love kids,but whatever, I don't want to
worry about that. So I put the dogs up, but
(12:35):
they're in my bedroom, they've got bones in there, they've got
dog beds. Do what you want and I know
they're not going to be bad. So that's my goal is that if we
need the dogs up, we could do that.
I consider place to be very, in my opinion, short duration.
I need you over there for a few minutes for a specific reason
and then now you're going to be free again.
(12:57):
So in your in a specific, if it's going to be for 10 minutes,
crate or place. I'm not sure I could give you an
answer in which I like better without knowing the dog.
Like obviously place is better training.
They're learning to listen to you, but a lot comes down to
what is the what is the dog's day been like?
And I think that is what's oftenleft out of the message is what
(13:20):
is the dog's day been like in this whole concept of self
regulation that such bullshit. If the dog's not getting, you
can't say self regulate if they're not having a normal dog
life. Like dogs in the wild don't play
constantly. Yeah, that's true.
Dogs in the wild don't sit in the house all day either, right?
Sure. They're like trotting around.
They're travelling, they're doing, yeah.
(13:41):
They're hunting, they're doing the stuff.
So this idea of like they need to self regulate to me that's
hiding from the like a lot of people are using that instead of
exercising and training properly.
And that's what I think it starts to become abusive because
then you're long past just saying I don't want you to be
super drive Y you're like crushing their soul like I don't
(14:01):
want you to be. I don't want you to be a
creature that does stuff. I just want you to lay there.
So that that's what drives me nuts.
Did that answer your question atall?
Kind of, but again, that would be like the big one where we
differ and probably it's the biggest thing that we differ on
because it's probably the only thing that we actually differ on
(14:22):
which is knowing some of the people that we talked to and
some of our clients. And so you know how they either
structure their day or just you know, make quick decisions
because somebody came over they weren't expecting whatever the
case may be. I would think that if hang out
in my room isn't an option because the dog you know might
(14:44):
chew stuff, might RIP stuff up, you know, whatever the case may
be. A well sized crate still isn't
as good as a place command even if they have a bone in in both.
Options for the dog's happiness.For the dog's happiness, OK,
right where even let's say the dog is going to spend half an
(15:05):
hour in either in either the crate or place command.
And those are the only two options.
I mean, place command still seems way better to me.
I wouldn't feel bad, you know, having a dog hang out in place
for half an hour with a bone hang, you know, being able to
kind of see what's going on and still be a part of the household
(15:26):
to later on get off right. Where again, that is one of the
big things that that we do agreeon.
However, you know, putting them up in a crate.
It's I wouldn't say it's a bad thing necessarily, but it
certainly doesn't seem as good or nice as a place command.
You know, if we're talking long distance, but I have to have
(15:49):
eyes on you or else you have to be in the crate long, long
duration, not distance. I mean a place command, even if
it's going to be 30-40 minutes seems way better to me than the
being in the crate, right. And then with the added benefit
of I can get off of the crate, because if the dog can hold the
place command, pretty damn soon it's going to be able to just
(16:10):
roam around and be cool and kindof do all of that stuff.
So that that's probably like I said that the big differ there
and what I think is a kind of a valid point.
The big thing that you said thatI agree with and and to be fair,
my biggest gripe against stay and place command is it hides
(16:33):
problems. You know, people will use that
as a crutch or they will use, you know, that as a correction
as opposed to actually fixing the problem.
And that's something that I see all the time of, hey, my dog
might run out of the door. So we need to strong down stay
so that they don't do it. Well we should fix the door and
(16:53):
not rely on the down stay because depending on who opens
that door your dog is going to run out anyways right?
So that would be my biggest gripe and and why I think that
downstairs and place commands are very overrated is because
the time that I see them being used aren't always optimal and
usually call for bad training. Yeah.
(17:16):
And I think there's a lot to to unpack there.
Duration obviously matters for what I'm talking about.
So just to set the stage for everyone listening or bell
rings, dogs are excited, you saydogs place or dogs come here,
lay down, stay. You answer the door, it's
someone who's not coming in. You chat for a minute or
(17:38):
whatever 3 minutes and then you're like bye.
You shut the door and then you free the dogs up.
I see nothing wrong with that. So I'm not, I'm not saying
that's bad or you shouldn't do that or can't do that.
If it's a friend that comes overand you say dogs place or lay
down whatever they do, you have the friend come in and then
they're going to chat for 1/2 hour.
That's where I start finding it bizarre.
(18:00):
Like why would we want our dog in the place command then why
wouldn't we want our dog free? And if you say it's because he
might jump on them and well thenwe should fix the jumping.
If it's because he might like just get too he can't self
regulate well teach him how to self regulate without laying
down the whole time. Put a leash on him and heal him
for a minute. When he jumps, stop him or barks
(18:20):
or does whatever it is you don'tlike so he can do something else
besides just lay there. And if you want, if your trainer
said you should do 1/2 hour down, say once a week when
someone comes in the door just to make sure you can, fine.
I'm not saying that's like the worst thing in the world.
I'd hope he's exercised first, you know, or she or whatever and
like had a good day. But if if you're doing that long
(18:44):
term, I just find it bizarre or like kids get home from school
and the dog is wild, put them ina place for the next two hours
until dinner. And I've heard that exact piece
of advice that's insane. Like the dog's excited because
he has energy and because the kids are excited, he wants to be
part of the family. So teach him to not do bad
stuff. Teach him to not whatever he's
(19:04):
doing jumping on the kids or mouthing them or whatever you
don't like the for. Like to me, penalizing that and
whether you say punishing, disciplining, whatever that
correction and the dog can now be free is so much better.
And like, I'm going to make you lay there for two hours so I can
avoid the unpleasantness of having to tell you no or
discipline you sternly enough toget through to you so you
(19:26):
actually stop jumping on everybody.
Sure. So then I think you do agree
with that. Part and that's.
That happens a lot. I don't know how much.
I've heard a lot of times of trainers suggesting that.
And I've heard trainers suggest that.
So I do agree. And I've talked to clients who,
you know, they'll reach out to previous trainers and they're
(19:48):
like, hey, you know, their answer to everything seemed to
be a downstate or a place command.
You know, if this was happening,if the dog, you know, we're
trying to relax. The dog is trying to play.
We're trying to relax or, or just I'm playing with my puppy,
but then it's starting to bite me.
The answer is place command, youknow, something along those
lines, which, you know, unfortunately, though, the two
do come hand in hand. So stay and place are kind of
(20:11):
used interchangeably here. What what I've seen in everyday
people is not everything comes together properly and on top of
that, every very often people will put their dogs in the crate
whenever they have guests come over and when it if those are
(20:35):
your options, its command seems a little better to me than than
a crate. You know, as weird as it might
be that your dog has to be in place for 40 minutes because
someone came over. If it's crate or the place,
place command seems a little better to me.
Seems nicer. Nice little comfy bed with the
bump and they still get to see the people.
(20:57):
Yeah, I I just don't like those being presented as the options
so. And I I see what you're saying
and I agree more training is always better.
But what I do see is that for a lot of people, those are the
options. But they're not.
Those are the options they've selected that they maybe they
feel comfortable with or will try.
(21:17):
So that I agree, right, I think that's better, a better way of
framing that for sure, right, isthat those are the two options
that they're comfortable with and there are better options.
I would agree with that completely.
And obviously I recognize every dog is different.
You know, a highly human aggressive dog, you're going to
have a different protocol, obviously, than like a lab who
(21:40):
just wants to jump on people. So clearly I'm not just saying
like, why don't be free at the door and like just stop the bad
behavior. Like, you know, there's a lot
that goes into this. Most dogs aren't highly
aggressive. Most dogs that are locked in
place commands are just like, oh, rambunctious.
And, and I do find that very often people are doing it
(22:02):
because it's easier for them. It's easier 'cause you don't
have to say one thing, Put them in a place and now you're just
done. You don't have to say anything
else. And it gets rid of the
unpleasantness of maybe having to discipline.
And I would just challenge anyone.
Put yourself in your dog's shoesand try to be honest here.
What do you think your dog wouldrather happen?
You have guests come over, he jumps and you grab the leash and
(22:25):
you give him a stern correction and tell him no sternly.
Maybe it happens twice and he stops jumping.
Now he's free for the next two hours doing whatever he wants
because he's being good or he doesn't get those corrections,
but he lays in the place commandnow for 45 minutes until they
leave. And then the next time someone
comes over, he's still in the place command for 45 minutes
until they leave. Because you're never fixing the
(22:47):
issue. I think anyone who's not lying
to themselves, it's very obviousyour dog would rather get that
discipline. If the dog could understand the
choice, the dog would say yes, give me the discipline, fix my
issues, teach me I'm not allowedto do this thing that you don't
like. That apparently is
inappropriate, so I'll stop doing it and then I don't have
to go lay on that thing for hours and.
(23:08):
That's the lawyer in you is likeassuming clause A and clause B
are true. But I do agree, right?
You know, corrections or even just different protocols, that
kind of stuff. Because something that I could
see, you know, right off the topof my head is, hey, this guest
doesn't like dogs. You know, you could teach that
(23:28):
dog if they're calm enough, which you would just have to
practice heal to avoid that person and not the craziest
thing in the world, right. We do it with babies all the
time is to have a healthy boundary around certain people.
So there is an answer to kind ofall of those conundrums.
It it I agree completely of the fact that these are the
comfortable options that people are choosing.
(23:51):
Can you say that again about thebaby?
Expand what you meant there. So let's say like me for
example, you know, my grandma doesn't like dogs unless they're
like Chihuahua sized dogs, right?
But she doesn't like my dogs or anything like that.
And so we would have to teach them, teach my dogs to just stay
away from her. And so I would practice on them
(24:11):
not coming any closer than I allow.
You know, for me, the general rule of thumb has always been
kind of like 5 feet. It's just, you know, the, the
line that I drew with all the babies and all that stuff.
But you can if you have a familymember that hates dogs or you
know, are scared of dogs, whatever the case may be.
I mean, you can teach good mannered, you know, good well
(24:32):
socialized dogs to stay away from certain people.
And that would be a common one that I would say a lot of people
would say, Oh, well, place command works out well because
they're not going to go up to the person that hates dogs or is
scared of dogs, that kind of deal.
Yeah, and so you mentioned baby and I what I wanted to expand on
there's to me, that's exactly mypoint.
(24:53):
And that's one of like a great example.
So obviously I, you know, I have3 kids.
When they were young, I didn't put use many stay commands with
the dogs, like I use some, but Iclaimed space I showed the dogs
like when the baby's on the ground, you keep a distance away
from the baby. Simple as that.
And then they can go do other stuff.
So then doing tummy time or whatever, the baby learning to
(25:14):
crawl, the dogs can have their bones and do dog stuff and live
their life because they've learned to just give the baby
its space versus no, I'm puttingthe baby on the ground and it
might be 30 or 40 minutes. Got to put my dogs in a place or
stay command. And you're doing that once again
forever. And then when you finally stop,
there's a chance the dogs know better.
(25:35):
Because now, yes, he's gotten good at being calm on his place,
but you let him free. He's never learned to respect
the baby's space. No part of what you did showed
him that, right? I mean, you, Nelson, I mean, you
did that. And then now you still have the
same job ahead of you. Like, OK, now the kids a
toddler. How do I get the dog to not
knock him over? Well, you could have done this
(25:57):
nine months ago or a year ago and not had to use that place
command, and that's true. And that's a good point, right?
You know, stop the stealing out of the hands before it even
starts because you worked on it when they were babies on the
floor, right. I mean, there, there is a lot of
truth to that for sure. Yeah, absolutely.
The big thing that I, and I mentioned it already, the big
(26:22):
thing that I, I typically have the problem on is people wanting
to use stay for things that I don't know, would have been
easier to fix the problem than it would have been to perfect
the stay, you know, and, and onebig thing that I think of is,
(26:43):
you know, stay because I'm running upstairs to grab
something and I'll be right back.
You know, it's a great thing to work on, but in practice, not
nearly right. Probably would have just been
easier to teach the dog not to go up the stairs and then, you
know, wouldn't matter who actually went upstairs, the dog
just wouldn't do it right. Or going into the garage or
(27:03):
going, you know, people are leaving the house and everybody
kind of uses a stay there. You know, those are hiding a
problem. They're hiding the problem of my
dog will bolt out of the door ifthere's anything exciting
happening, my dog will, you know, run upstairs and get into
the bathroom trash or something.You know, typically there's,
(27:27):
there's other things and better things that you could be fixing
that will also kind of like the baby example will pay dividends
later on in the future that are worth fixing.
But a lot of people choose to just try and work on a stay
instead of fixing that problem. And that, that would be my
biggest, you know, my biggest gripe.
(27:48):
It's it's why I say the stay command is very, you know, kind
of overrated, especially in a day-to-day life.
Yeah, I think that's. I mean, those are all good
points and I think one of the last points that I would like to
make is something you said earlier, but this is one of the
(28:08):
big arguments for place is you do place at a time you want the
dog to learn. Let's say we go back to self
regulation. I want you to learn that
whatever 8:00 PM is chill time. 8:00 PM is not wrestle time.
OK, If you just do place eventually, will the dog learn
(28:29):
on their own to be chill at thattime?
Yeah, I think they will. I, but I, I would also say that
if all you're doing if if that'sthe core of your training
program is I want him, you know,chill at 8:00.
So I do place every night at 8. And that's all you're thinking
about. You're making it harder on
yourself and way harder on the dog than you need to.
So if one of my clients came to me and and they do and say I
(28:50):
got, you know, I want my dog chill at 8:00 PM OK, well, let's
and I already said a little bit of this earlier.
Let's get him. Let's do something good before
8:00 PM, right? We can't ignore him for three
hours. And then like, OK, now I'm going
to make you lay down for a long period of time.
You've just been sleeping on your dog bed for three hours.
You just woke up. Now you're going to have to lay
there for the next two hours. Like that sucks and that's not
(29:12):
fair. So what I would say is do
something, play ball, train, I don't care what it is, do
something with the dog, get him tired.
If you feel like you still need a place command after that,
fine, do a few minutes of it. But if your dog has a
reasonable, a reasonable, like Ihate to use the word balance,
but like a reasonable amount of balance in their life, they're
not, they're not on edge crazy. They don't have anxiety
(29:35):
problems. You don't have any like real
issue at 8:00 PM that you're trying to fix.
The dog's just annoying you because they're too busy.
If you exercise them properly for at 7:00 or 7:30 or whatever
and they've had a good day and you have them hold a down stay
or place for 5 minutes and you say free.
Your dog should not free up likea maniac and then go crazy.
(29:57):
Like if you said free, I would think if you're doing a good job
with the dog, they'd be like, OK, and maybe they stay where
they are or maybe they get up and they go get a different
bone. They've been thinking about that
they kind of wanted but they couldn't because they were in
place and they go get that bone and lay down and chew.
So what I would say is or they're tired.
Enough that a simple correction,a very, very soft, normal
(30:18):
correction would fix the problem.
You know, that is one that I wanted to throw out there for
sure, and I wasn't. Going to say that I'm glad you
did. And then they don't have to be
in it anymore. So doesn't mean you can't use it
as a tool and exactly like you said earlier, like, you know, to
calm at a certain time, but it should be one part of it.
And your thoughts should be, howdo I make it fair before I put
(30:40):
them in? And how do I quit using it?
What is my plan to no longer need it?
And if you don't have those other two things, that's when
you're doing a disservice to thedog.
I wish I'd had that thought of the start.
I should have opened with that. That was a good one.
But if you have those two things.
Now they have to watch the wholething.
To get to that nugget so well, Iwish.
(31:01):
I'd known to the start I was going to say something to the
end that I liked because then wecould have like wait to the end
if you want. There you go.
Best advice. But have make it fair to the dog
before you start and have a planto phase it out.
And the plan should not be 6 months long for sure.
And. And some more concept, right?
You know, like a lot of people do these kinds of things.
(31:24):
So I, I, I see why it happens because I, I see it everywhere.
But you know, again, you work onhealing nicely because the dog
was pulling you on the leash. But a lot of people might just
put a prong collar on and hope that that fixes the problem and
never teach their dogs how to heal in the 1st place, which
then you'd be able to get off ofthe prong collar right?
(31:45):
Again, having that plan that youcould get off of the tool in
order to live life normally. The other one that I see is, you
know, being on a leash all the time or, or, you know, this is
going to sound weird, but doing recall way too much because you
don't trust that your dog will hang out within 10 feet of you,
you know, and that is one of those things where again, people
(32:06):
will tend to focus on one thing that should be like a stepping
stone to get you to, you know, like the other side of whatever
the problem is. And they, they just kind of they
hold their, they plateau right there and do that forever.
I think that's. A good kind of ending note that
if you're not training your dog for competition of some sort,
(32:29):
whatever it is, all of your training, the idea of it is that
you can phase it out through time and use very very very
little of it. Because your dog is chill and is
good in its day-to-day life and is able to go places with you
without being a jerk and withoutneeding to be in commands all
the time. For sure.
Is that a good summit? Summation.
(32:50):
I think so. All right, well, we kept.
This one nice and short. Let us know what you think about
these shorter episodes, everybody.
We'd appreciate the feedback. I'll see you guys
(33:10):
sit, stay, press plan. Let's begin.
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(33:32):
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name. What's up, Nelson?
(00:35):
How are you buddy? I wish your last statement was
live on the air, but it's it's too late so we're just going to
have to dive into. Home and past.
So today we're doing the problemwith a stay command.
Yes. And this, I mean, this is my my
baby. I suggested it.
Did we even really spend enough time talking about why I wanted
(00:58):
to do this one? And no.
No, definitely. Not so you're coming in blind.
So I, I guess let me just frame this for people listening.
The whole point of training a dog is so they have a good life
and at least for me, right, not being into sport dogs,
competition, whatever the entirereason for it is.
(01:19):
So they have a good life and youhave a good life and like
everything's fun. So there's me for me, really no
other or no higher reason than that.
You have a good life and you're not stressed out about your dog
and they're able to enjoy as much of your life with you as
possible based upon, you know, limits that dogs can't go
everywhere. So I'm not anti stay command in
(01:41):
the sense of that. I don't think it should exist or
ever be used, but I think it's really overused by some people.
And I think it then starts to decrease the dog's quality of
life for two reasons. One is they spend too much time
in the command. And two is it hides from core
issues. The issues don't get fixed and
(02:01):
then the dog can't be in those scenarios and be free and just
enjoy life. So that's that's where I'm
coming at it from. I've had a couple scenarios
lately brought to my attention of clients and other trainers
doing things that I consider borderline abusive and not
abusive like as in like physically hurting the dog, but
(02:24):
I'd call borderline abusive fromthe dog just having a shitty
life with how much And I'm saying stay, but also place
command. I, I consider place just to be,
you know, stay in this certain spot.
So I'm, I see it a lot with bothof these.
One of these was the scenarios that I'm thinking of was stay.
The other was place. But I'm kind of conflating the
(02:44):
two things here because they're so similar to me.
So that's where I'm coming from here and I've seen it a lot over
the years, but these two bothered me more.
Some of the things I've just heard.
And then I know there's this goes on a lot all around the
country and all around the world.
So just wanted to spend some time talking about it.
Definitely. Do you want any clarification
(03:06):
from my overall thought or wheredo you want to go from here?
I think because we've talked about similar stuff,
particularly like place command,right where I think I have a
pretty solid idea where you're coming from.
And a lot of it comes down to not in the fact of these
commands can be useful in certain situations because
(03:26):
clearly they can, not that they shouldn't be taught because if
we teach them, I probably teach place more than you do, but you
know, we do teach them. And your big gripe is when the
dog is spending way more time incontainment, whether it's a
crate, place, command or a stay,instead of just kind of free
(03:50):
roaming. Because the dog is good enough
to be free roaming, correct? Yeah, for sure.
I mean, and there's just so manynuances here.
And for sure to be clear, if you're another trainer listening
and you use a lot of place or stay, like this isn't meant to
be a critique. I'm hoping you're not abusing
(04:11):
it. If you're a client of another
trainer and they're using it a lot, I'm not necessarily saying
like that what you're doing is bad.
I want you to think about it andmaybe what you're doing is bad,
I don't know, but there's a goodchance you're could love place
and love stay and use it a lot and not be overusing it.
And to be clear of something I don't think is unfair.
(04:33):
I'm not saying you shouldn't proof the stay command.
So I do that a lot, right? Like I put a dog in a stay until
we can create any reasonable distraction.
Another dog running by throwing a treat, throwing a ball,
ringing the doorbell. So I'm not anti stay or place by
any stretch, but we need to get away from it.
(04:53):
And I guess what I've heard multiple times from a few
trainers recently is that dogs need a lot of place and a lot of
stay in order to self regulate. And the in my opinion the
average dog should not need that.
If they can't self regulate in their day-to-day life, something
(05:15):
is amiss. Like I don't know what, Maybe
they're not getting exercised, maybe you're just not
disciplining the naughty stuff they're doing.
I don't know. But if it's long term.
And so by long term, I don't mean like you just got your dog
back from a trainer and they sayI want you to do place during
dinner every night to make sure you can control them.
That's great through time. You shouldn't need that.
Your dog should be chill after doing that enough that you go to
(05:38):
eat dinner and they're like nothing for me there and they
just go lay down and chew a bone.
So that's a couple thoughts, butthe self regulation.
I've seen a few things lately that are driving me bananas with
the idea that dogs need huge amounts of place and stay
otherwise they just can't self regulate.
So I'm going to play devil's advocate for a tiny bit because
(06:03):
I have my own gripes, you know, with, with stay and with place
and, and how trainers use them and how clients use them.
So, you know, we are in agreement at the end of the day,
But I, there are a couple of things that I've heard people
say and then some that I agree with too.
So the big one that I hear and Iand the word self regulated, I
(06:25):
haven't heard used, but it does kind of bring me to this.
And I'm assuming that's what they're meaning by it.
And we tell clients all the time, Hey, you can get your dog
to recognize certain patterns orcertain times of the day and
their body will naturally get more excited or less excited
(06:47):
based on what's going on. You know, a very common one
would be every time you sit downon the couch, they bring a ball
and you throw it. And so every time you want to
relax, they get excited. And then you feel like you can
never relax, right, because yourdog is just constantly wanting
to play. What, what I've seen and what
(07:08):
other peoples have talked about is if you use place command now
I'm, I am kind of cheating here.And then what I mean by cheating
is in training, you know, a young dog who is in training or
just got back from a boarding train or something along those
lines. You can teach them that, hey,
certain times of the day or certain activities need to be
(07:30):
calm and you are essentially helping them regulate their
excitement level to then corresponding to your lifestyle.
So hey, every time it's dinnertime I don't want my dogs
to get super excited or be running around either during the
cooking process or during the eating, and I'd like them to go
lay down and chew a bone, you know?
Place command consistently couldget them to feel that way,
(07:55):
right? Yes.
So if you have a set goal and you're going to use it for a
while with the plan of stopping to use it once.
Getting off of the command. Then yes, and then I have
clients do that, right? Like during dinner, maybe you do
a down stay every night during dinner for the next two weeks.
And trust me, unless your dogs are psycho after two weeks, you
(08:18):
don't put them in a down stay. You're going to be a different
dog because he's going to have learned.
You know how you know how to be calm in that scenario?
What I don't like is the broaderbrush of like them, they're
going to learn. So laying down when you don't
want to does not sound fun, right?
So let's say you're hyper and you want to play and you've got
(08:41):
you're not super playful Nelson,but you want to go to the gym,
you want to get some energy out and then Taylor's like no, sit
there quietly for the next hour.That sucks.
That really, really, really sucks.
And that's how I see people using stay in place.
What I would say to a client is if they say I want to watch a
(09:02):
movie and I want my dog to lay there, I would first push back
and say like, why do we want thedog to lay there?
Don't we just want the dog to not like, I don't know, RIP
stuff up or jump on you or like bark, like why do we care if the
dog lays there? And if they say I want to keep
an eye on them, well, could we just set up a crate, I'm sorry,
(09:24):
a gate and keep them in the roomwith you so he could chew a bone
and walk around? Like is it that like that so
essential he needs to lay there and then if it some reason the
answer is yes, he really needs to well, then we should exercise
him first. I don't think it's a very and
like I'm not saying that you shouldn't be able to ask your
(09:45):
dog to stay when they're hyped up, but I'm talking short
duration. So you're at the park, another
dog walks by. You put your dog in a down stay.
I'm not saying like, oh, that's not fair.
He hasn't been exercised. He can't hold a stay.
That's like a minute anyway, Hold it for a minute.
Dog goes by. OK, now you're free.
But if you're going to like, oh,someone just came, rang the
doorbell, dog's going to be in the place command for the next
(10:08):
30 or 40 minutes because this isfor me, not for them.
Did the dog get exercise first? Is it in a play mode?
If it is, I think that's kind ofa shitty thing to do to be like
you're going to be in you lay down for 30 or 40 minutes, don't
do anything. And I know I didn't play with
you first or give you an outlet.I just think that's not fair to
the dog. And that's how I see it often
(10:28):
being used. As opposed to why when the dog
calmed during dinner, why don't why don't we go play fetch
before dinner? Then maybe one spouse cooks
dinner, the other person plays fetch with the dog or does a
training session. The dogs got their wiggles and
everything out and then now we put them in a downstate.
To me it's a whole different thing.
So, and I do agree there, right.One of the things that I see
(10:50):
very often is place command or even a down stay being used as
like a part of the punishment, right?
You did something. So now I need you to come over
here and lay down or something along those lines instead of
with a plan, right of hey, I'm going to go, we're going to play
fetch first. Maybe we'll walk around the
(11:12):
neighborhood really quickly, just kind of cool off.
And then you can come in here, hold the place while chewing a
bone and I'm doing, you know, XYor Z.
The next thing that I would say,which I don't know, you didn't
answer it, but you know, like the answer is probably going to
be very similar to what you justsaid, which makes a ton of sense
(11:33):
if it's between the crate or theplace command.
And those are the only two options because for a lot of
people, those that will be theiroption, right?
Either you go in the crate or you hold this down, stay right
next to me where I can watch youwithout the foresight of I
should be working you out. I should be kind of, you know,
fixing all the problems, that kind of stuff, which I want to
(11:54):
get to later because that is my biggest gripe with any of these
commands. Would you say that place command
is better or down stay is betterthan being in the crate?
I guess it depends on the size of the crate and the dog's
feelings towards it. And you know, for me personally,
(12:15):
I like to get away from crates. So there's times where I put my
dogs up that I don't want them out.
And we've talked about this in this podcast, like if I have a
party with a lot of people over that don't know the dogs, I'm
not, I don't want to watch my dogs.
I don't want to watch idiot people kids or whatever.
And like, and my dogs love kids,but whatever, I don't want to
worry about that. So I put the dogs up, but
(12:35):
they're in my bedroom, they've got bones in there, they've got
dog beds. Do what you want and I know
they're not going to be bad. So that's my goal is that if we
need the dogs up, we could do that.
I consider place to be very, in my opinion, short duration.
I need you over there for a few minutes for a specific reason
and then now you're going to be free again.
(12:57):
So in your in a specific, if it's going to be for 10 minutes,
crate or place. I'm not sure I could give you an
answer in which I like better without knowing the dog.
Like obviously place is better training.
They're learning to listen to you, but a lot comes down to
what is the what is the dog's day been like?
And I think that is what's oftenleft out of the message is what
(13:20):
is the dog's day been like in this whole concept of self
regulation that such bullshit. If the dog's not getting, you
can't say self regulate if they're not having a normal dog
life. Like dogs in the wild don't play
constantly. Yeah, that's true.
Dogs in the wild don't sit in the house all day either, right?
Sure. They're like trotting around.
They're travelling, they're doing, yeah.
(13:41):
They're hunting, they're doing the stuff.
So this idea of like they need to self regulate to me that's
hiding from the like a lot of people are using that instead of
exercising and training properly.
And that's what I think it starts to become abusive because
then you're long past just saying I don't want you to be
super drive Y you're like crushing their soul like I don't
(14:01):
want you to be. I don't want you to be a
creature that does stuff. I just want you to lay there.
So that that's what drives me nuts.
Did that answer your question atall?
Kind of, but again, that would be like the big one where we
differ and probably it's the biggest thing that we differ on
because it's probably the only thing that we actually differ on
(14:22):
which is knowing some of the people that we talked to and
some of our clients. And so you know how they either
structure their day or just you know, make quick decisions
because somebody came over they weren't expecting whatever the
case may be. I would think that if hang out
in my room isn't an option because the dog you know might
(14:44):
chew stuff, might RIP stuff up, you know, whatever the case may
be. A well sized crate still isn't
as good as a place command even if they have a bone in in both.
Options for the dog's happiness.For the dog's happiness, OK,
right where even let's say the dog is going to spend half an
(15:05):
hour in either in either the crate or place command.
And those are the only two options.
I mean, place command still seems way better to me.
I wouldn't feel bad, you know, having a dog hang out in place
for half an hour with a bone hang, you know, being able to
kind of see what's going on and still be a part of the household
(15:26):
to later on get off right. Where again, that is one of the
big things that that we do agreeon.
However, you know, putting them up in a crate.
It's I wouldn't say it's a bad thing necessarily, but it
certainly doesn't seem as good or nice as a place command.
You know, if we're talking long distance, but I have to have
(15:49):
eyes on you or else you have to be in the crate long, long
duration, not distance. I mean a place command, even if
it's going to be 30-40 minutes seems way better to me than the
being in the crate, right. And then with the added benefit
of I can get off of the crate, because if the dog can hold the
place command, pretty damn soon it's going to be able to just
(16:10):
roam around and be cool and kindof do all of that stuff.
So that that's probably like I said that the big differ there
and what I think is a kind of a valid point.
The big thing that you said thatI agree with and and to be fair,
my biggest gripe against stay and place command is it hides
(16:33):
problems. You know, people will use that
as a crutch or they will use, you know, that as a correction
as opposed to actually fixing the problem.
And that's something that I see all the time of, hey, my dog
might run out of the door. So we need to strong down stay
so that they don't do it. Well we should fix the door and
(16:53):
not rely on the down stay because depending on who opens
that door your dog is going to run out anyways right?
So that would be my biggest gripe and and why I think that
downstairs and place commands are very overrated is because
the time that I see them being used aren't always optimal and
usually call for bad training. Yeah.
(17:16):
And I think there's a lot to to unpack there.
Duration obviously matters for what I'm talking about.
So just to set the stage for everyone listening or bell
rings, dogs are excited, you saydogs place or dogs come here,
lay down, stay. You answer the door, it's
someone who's not coming in. You chat for a minute or
(17:38):
whatever 3 minutes and then you're like bye.
You shut the door and then you free the dogs up.
I see nothing wrong with that. So I'm not, I'm not saying
that's bad or you shouldn't do that or can't do that.
If it's a friend that comes overand you say dogs place or lay
down whatever they do, you have the friend come in and then
they're going to chat for 1/2 hour.
That's where I start finding it bizarre.
(18:00):
Like why would we want our dog in the place command then why
wouldn't we want our dog free? And if you say it's because he
might jump on them and well thenwe should fix the jumping.
If it's because he might like just get too he can't self
regulate well teach him how to self regulate without laying
down the whole time. Put a leash on him and heal him
for a minute. When he jumps, stop him or barks
(18:20):
or does whatever it is you don'tlike so he can do something else
besides just lay there. And if you want, if your trainer
said you should do 1/2 hour down, say once a week when
someone comes in the door just to make sure you can, fine.
I'm not saying that's like the worst thing in the world.
I'd hope he's exercised first, you know, or she or whatever and
like had a good day. But if if you're doing that long
(18:44):
term, I just find it bizarre or like kids get home from school
and the dog is wild, put them ina place for the next two hours
until dinner. And I've heard that exact piece
of advice that's insane. Like the dog's excited because
he has energy and because the kids are excited, he wants to be
part of the family. So teach him to not do bad
stuff. Teach him to not whatever he's
(19:04):
doing jumping on the kids or mouthing them or whatever you
don't like the for. Like to me, penalizing that and
whether you say punishing, disciplining, whatever that
correction and the dog can now be free is so much better.
And like, I'm going to make you lay there for two hours so I can
avoid the unpleasantness of having to tell you no or
discipline you sternly enough toget through to you so you
(19:26):
actually stop jumping on everybody.
Sure. So then I think you do agree
with that. Part and that's.
That happens a lot. I don't know how much.
I've heard a lot of times of trainers suggesting that.
And I've heard trainers suggest that.
So I do agree. And I've talked to clients who,
you know, they'll reach out to previous trainers and they're
(19:48):
like, hey, you know, their answer to everything seemed to
be a downstate or a place command.
You know, if this was happening,if the dog, you know, we're
trying to relax. The dog is trying to play.
We're trying to relax or, or just I'm playing with my puppy,
but then it's starting to bite me.
The answer is place command, youknow, something along those
lines, which, you know, unfortunately, though, the two
do come hand in hand. So stay and place are kind of
(20:11):
used interchangeably here. What what I've seen in everyday
people is not everything comes together properly and on top of
that, every very often people will put their dogs in the crate
whenever they have guests come over and when it if those are
(20:35):
your options, its command seems a little better to me than than
a crate. You know, as weird as it might
be that your dog has to be in place for 40 minutes because
someone came over. If it's crate or the place,
place command seems a little better to me.
Seems nicer. Nice little comfy bed with the
bump and they still get to see the people.
(20:57):
Yeah, I I just don't like those being presented as the options
so. And I I see what you're saying
and I agree more training is always better.
But what I do see is that for a lot of people, those are the
options. But they're not.
Those are the options they've selected that they maybe they
feel comfortable with or will try.
(21:17):
So that I agree, right, I think that's better, a better way of
framing that for sure, right, isthat those are the two options
that they're comfortable with and there are better options.
I would agree with that completely.
And obviously I recognize every dog is different.
You know, a highly human aggressive dog, you're going to
have a different protocol, obviously, than like a lab who
(21:40):
just wants to jump on people. So clearly I'm not just saying
like, why don't be free at the door and like just stop the bad
behavior. Like, you know, there's a lot
that goes into this. Most dogs aren't highly
aggressive. Most dogs that are locked in
place commands are just like, oh, rambunctious.
And, and I do find that very often people are doing it
(22:02):
because it's easier for them. It's easier 'cause you don't
have to say one thing, Put them in a place and now you're just
done. You don't have to say anything
else. And it gets rid of the
unpleasantness of maybe having to discipline.
And I would just challenge anyone.
Put yourself in your dog's shoesand try to be honest here.
What do you think your dog wouldrather happen?
You have guests come over, he jumps and you grab the leash and
(22:25):
you give him a stern correction and tell him no sternly.
Maybe it happens twice and he stops jumping.
Now he's free for the next two hours doing whatever he wants
because he's being good or he doesn't get those corrections,
but he lays in the place commandnow for 45 minutes until they
leave. And then the next time someone
comes over, he's still in the place command for 45 minutes
until they leave. Because you're never fixing the
(22:47):
issue. I think anyone who's not lying
to themselves, it's very obviousyour dog would rather get that
discipline. If the dog could understand the
choice, the dog would say yes, give me the discipline, fix my
issues, teach me I'm not allowedto do this thing that you don't
like. That apparently is
inappropriate, so I'll stop doing it and then I don't have
to go lay on that thing for hours and.
(23:08):
That's the lawyer in you is likeassuming clause A and clause B
are true. But I do agree, right?
You know, corrections or even just different protocols, that
kind of stuff. Because something that I could
see, you know, right off the topof my head is, hey, this guest
doesn't like dogs. You know, you could teach that
(23:28):
dog if they're calm enough, which you would just have to
practice heal to avoid that person and not the craziest
thing in the world, right. We do it with babies all the
time is to have a healthy boundary around certain people.
So there is an answer to kind ofall of those conundrums.
It it I agree completely of the fact that these are the
comfortable options that people are choosing.
(23:51):
Can you say that again about thebaby?
Expand what you meant there. So let's say like me for
example, you know, my grandma doesn't like dogs unless they're
like Chihuahua sized dogs, right?
But she doesn't like my dogs or anything like that.
And so we would have to teach them, teach my dogs to just stay
away from her. And so I would practice on them
(24:11):
not coming any closer than I allow.
You know, for me, the general rule of thumb has always been
kind of like 5 feet. It's just, you know, the, the
line that I drew with all the babies and all that stuff.
But you can if you have a familymember that hates dogs or you
know, are scared of dogs, whatever the case may be.
I mean, you can teach good mannered, you know, good well
(24:32):
socialized dogs to stay away from certain people.
And that would be a common one that I would say a lot of people
would say, Oh, well, place command works out well because
they're not going to go up to the person that hates dogs or is
scared of dogs, that kind of deal.
Yeah, and so you mentioned baby and I what I wanted to expand on
there's to me, that's exactly mypoint.
(24:53):
And that's one of like a great example.
So obviously I, you know, I have3 kids.
When they were young, I didn't put use many stay commands with
the dogs, like I use some, but Iclaimed space I showed the dogs
like when the baby's on the ground, you keep a distance away
from the baby. Simple as that.
And then they can go do other stuff.
So then doing tummy time or whatever, the baby learning to
(25:14):
crawl, the dogs can have their bones and do dog stuff and live
their life because they've learned to just give the baby
its space versus no, I'm puttingthe baby on the ground and it
might be 30 or 40 minutes. Got to put my dogs in a place or
stay command. And you're doing that once again
forever. And then when you finally stop,
there's a chance the dogs know better.
(25:35):
Because now, yes, he's gotten good at being calm on his place,
but you let him free. He's never learned to respect
the baby's space. No part of what you did showed
him that, right? I mean, you, Nelson, I mean, you
did that. And then now you still have the
same job ahead of you. Like, OK, now the kids a
toddler. How do I get the dog to not
knock him over? Well, you could have done this
(25:57):
nine months ago or a year ago and not had to use that place
command, and that's true. And that's a good point, right?
You know, stop the stealing out of the hands before it even
starts because you worked on it when they were babies on the
floor, right. I mean, there, there is a lot of
truth to that for sure. Yeah, absolutely.
The big thing that I, and I mentioned it already, the big
(26:22):
thing that I, I typically have the problem on is people wanting
to use stay for things that I don't know, would have been
easier to fix the problem than it would have been to perfect
the stay, you know, and, and onebig thing that I think of is,
(26:43):
you know, stay because I'm running upstairs to grab
something and I'll be right back.
You know, it's a great thing to work on, but in practice, not
nearly right. Probably would have just been
easier to teach the dog not to go up the stairs and then, you
know, wouldn't matter who actually went upstairs, the dog
just wouldn't do it right. Or going into the garage or
(27:03):
going, you know, people are leaving the house and everybody
kind of uses a stay there. You know, those are hiding a
problem. They're hiding the problem of my
dog will bolt out of the door ifthere's anything exciting
happening, my dog will, you know, run upstairs and get into
the bathroom trash or something.You know, typically there's,
(27:27):
there's other things and better things that you could be fixing
that will also kind of like the baby example will pay dividends
later on in the future that are worth fixing.
But a lot of people choose to just try and work on a stay
instead of fixing that problem. And that, that would be my
biggest, you know, my biggest gripe.
(27:48):
It's it's why I say the stay command is very, you know, kind
of overrated, especially in a day-to-day life.
Yeah, I think that's. I mean, those are all good
points and I think one of the last points that I would like to
make is something you said earlier, but this is one of the
(28:08):
big arguments for place is you do place at a time you want the
dog to learn. Let's say we go back to self
regulation. I want you to learn that
whatever 8:00 PM is chill time. 8:00 PM is not wrestle time.
OK, If you just do place eventually, will the dog learn
(28:29):
on their own to be chill at thattime?
Yeah, I think they will. I, but I, I would also say that
if all you're doing if if that'sthe core of your training
program is I want him, you know,chill at 8:00.
So I do place every night at 8. And that's all you're thinking
about. You're making it harder on
yourself and way harder on the dog than you need to.
So if one of my clients came to me and and they do and say I
(28:50):
got, you know, I want my dog chill at 8:00 PM OK, well, let's
and I already said a little bit of this earlier.
Let's get him. Let's do something good before
8:00 PM, right? We can't ignore him for three
hours. And then like, OK, now I'm going
to make you lay down for a long period of time.
You've just been sleeping on your dog bed for three hours.
You just woke up. Now you're going to have to lay
there for the next two hours. Like that sucks and that's not
(29:12):
fair. So what I would say is do
something, play ball, train, I don't care what it is, do
something with the dog, get him tired.
If you feel like you still need a place command after that,
fine, do a few minutes of it. But if your dog has a
reasonable, a reasonable, like Ihate to use the word balance,
but like a reasonable amount of balance in their life, they're
not, they're not on edge crazy. They don't have anxiety
(29:35):
problems. You don't have any like real
issue at 8:00 PM that you're trying to fix.
The dog's just annoying you because they're too busy.
If you exercise them properly for at 7:00 or 7:30 or whatever
and they've had a good day and you have them hold a down stay
or place for 5 minutes and you say free.
Your dog should not free up likea maniac and then go crazy.
(29:57):
Like if you said free, I would think if you're doing a good job
with the dog, they'd be like, OK, and maybe they stay where
they are or maybe they get up and they go get a different
bone. They've been thinking about that
they kind of wanted but they couldn't because they were in
place and they go get that bone and lay down and chew.
So what I would say is or they're tired.
Enough that a simple correction,a very, very soft, normal
(30:18):
correction would fix the problem.
You know, that is one that I wanted to throw out there for
sure, and I wasn't. Going to say that I'm glad you
did. And then they don't have to be
in it anymore. So doesn't mean you can't use it
as a tool and exactly like you said earlier, like, you know, to
calm at a certain time, but it should be one part of it.
And your thoughts should be, howdo I make it fair before I put
(30:40):
them in? And how do I quit using it?
What is my plan to no longer need it?
And if you don't have those other two things, that's when
you're doing a disservice to thedog.
I wish I'd had that thought of the start.
I should have opened with that. That was a good one.
But if you have those two things.
Now they have to watch the wholething.
To get to that nugget so well, Iwish.
(31:01):
I'd known to the start I was going to say something to the
end that I liked because then wecould have like wait to the end
if you want. There you go.
Best advice. But have make it fair to the dog
before you start and have a planto phase it out.
And the plan should not be 6 months long for sure.
And. And some more concept, right?
You know, like a lot of people do these kinds of things.
(31:24):
So I, I, I see why it happens because I, I see it everywhere.
But you know, again, you work onhealing nicely because the dog
was pulling you on the leash. But a lot of people might just
put a prong collar on and hope that that fixes the problem and
never teach their dogs how to heal in the 1st place, which
then you'd be able to get off ofthe prong collar right?
(31:45):
Again, having that plan that youcould get off of the tool in
order to live life normally. The other one that I see is, you
know, being on a leash all the time or, or, you know, this is
going to sound weird, but doing recall way too much because you
don't trust that your dog will hang out within 10 feet of you,
you know, and that is one of those things where again, people
(32:06):
will tend to focus on one thing that should be like a stepping
stone to get you to, you know, like the other side of whatever
the problem is. And they, they just kind of they
hold their, they plateau right there and do that forever.
I think that's. A good kind of ending note that
if you're not training your dog for competition of some sort,
(32:29):
whatever it is, all of your training, the idea of it is that
you can phase it out through time and use very very very
little of it. Because your dog is chill and is
good in its day-to-day life and is able to go places with you
without being a jerk and withoutneeding to be in commands all
the time. For sure.
Is that a good summit? Summation.
(32:50):
I think so. All right, well, we kept.
This one nice and short. Let us know what you think about
these shorter episodes, everybody.
We'd appreciate the feedback. I'll see you guys
(33:10):
sit, stay, press plan. Let's begin.
Welcome to the pack you are officially in.
Treats delicious. Shaping the game.
Mark your eyes, never the same. Big dogs, small dogs, every
kind. If you love canines, tuning,
rewind, laugh and learn. Level up your game.
Suburban canine. Remember the name.
Sit, Stay Breast player. Let's begin.
(33:32):
Welcome to the pack. You are officially Sit Stay
Breast player. Let's begin.
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