October 22, 2025 • 41 mins
We had a lot of comments on our YouTube channel about a streamer named Hasan using an e collar on his dog. People are alleging that he is abusing his dog with an e collar after incident during one of his live streams.
We watched the videos (linked below) and then filmed this episode discussing what we saw. It led to a great conversation about e collar usage and treatment of dogs in general.
Let us know what you think:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:10):
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(00:33):
All right, guys. Well, we have lost his favorite
thing in the world. We are doing this episode on the
fly and we're ignoring our documents.
Yeah, I'm pretty pumped. You seemed.
Really agitated a few minutes ago.
Well, because you acted like I knew what the topic was when you
never sent it to me. You send me a random video like
(00:54):
a minute before we start and expect me to be like, Oh my
gosh, yeah, I know what we're doing.
But I I did send it to you, it just wasn't in the timely
manner. So let's tee this up, Nelson,
You brought this to me like an hour ago and said, hey, we
should talk about this. How do you pronounce the guy's
name? Hassan Piker.
OK, this Hassan character, yes, and I've never even heard his
(01:16):
name. I only know about him because
last week we started getting allthese comments on some of our E
collar videos and people asking me to do reaction videos and for
like input on what went on. And I assumed they were talking
about the founder of sit means sit because his last name is
similar. Fred's last name is similar to
(01:38):
this other guy's first name. So I start Googling Fred.
I'm like shit like what did he do?
I'm like, and nothing comes up and I kept looking and looking.
I'm like, there's literally no controversy at all.
But you should see our charts like the views on our E collar
videos skyrocketed, particularlyone about I think it's called
like our E collars cruel. And it's not a training video.
(01:59):
It's just like talking to E collars and then people arguing
about Hassan on there. So that's how I became aware of
it, and then I didn't know. Some video to have out there.
You, me, you were ahead of the curve on that one for sure.
I was and I did not do a reaction video.
I saw Tom Davis did one. I watched a couple minutes of
it, but it looks like he didn't do all that much.
(02:21):
The comments on it weren't all that good.
There were a lot of people that seemed agitated that he didn't
understand the whole situation. He came at it like a dog
trainer. But I think not knowing what
this Hassan character actually does in his videos.
So I am curious. So that that's our lead in.
So Nelson, you, I haven't seen the video.
I saw a clip where the dog yelps.
So I have seen that, yeah, you know a lot more about this than
(02:44):
us. So do you want to go ahead and
take over from here on what's happened and then we'll talk
through it? I do want to preface the fact
that I too am a dog trainer and I am coming at this as a dog
trainer and not a political pundit or or anything like that.
You know, as far as I can see, this is a dog training
(03:08):
situation. Let let me expand then, Nelson,
sorry to cut you off. The issue people had with Tom
was he didn't look into like he had comments on his own video
saying like, oh, I've no idea how long the guy used this
place. I don't know what the dog does.
And people are like, well, that's super relevant.
You should know that before you make a video.
So there was a lot of but I think it's because Tom's videos
(03:31):
usually have only his fans watching them.
And now you've got a bunch of random people who don't know
him, could care less about him, that are upset, and then watch
the video. So I think it was a video that
was primed to have a lot of anger.
And I, I really do think that that is again, why we're even
talking about it here, simply for the fact that we are not
(03:51):
talking to people who are Privy to dog training or people who
know about dog training. Because I think anyone, even our
clients, not even just other dogtrainers that we know, but even
our clients would probably look at the situation and say, Oh,
yeah, OK, you're like, yeah, that, that looks pretty normal
to me. Pretty standard.
No big deal. What what we're seeing is an
(04:12):
influx of emotional people trying to find information that
they can use to cudgel whoever their opponent is in that
moment. Right.
And the reason I say that this isn't even political is because
you're you're seeing that on both sides.
Right leaning people are using it as a crutch for left-leaning
people and left-leaning people are using it as a cudgel for
(04:33):
right leaning people. Go ahead.
What's up? I feel like you're talking with
the assumption that people know what you're talking about at
this point. And you're also talking like the
majority of people who are goingto be listening are not our
listeners, but our people who found it because of they know
about this topic. Do you like, I mean, First off,
Covey explained who he thought this guy was, but never actually
(04:54):
explained who he was. So who's the dude?
What's the video show? Like, what's the situation?
I feel like you're you're putting the cart before the
horse here. Maybe you're right.
I apologize. So the guy's name is Hassan
Piker. He is an American Twitch
streamer, political commentator,and he streams for like 7 to 8
(05:15):
hours a day, every day. I mean, he does like that's,
that's what he's known for is like marathon streaming and that
kind of stuff. So Twitch is like video game
streaming, like he's streaming himself playing a game.
But then that's. What it started as, and now it's
just as political as everything else.
And so now it's just you're going to watch him read the news
(05:35):
reply, you know, like react to videos and that kind of stuff.
So for the most part, what he isknown for is for his political
activism and younger career being with his uncle.
His uncle is forget how to how to say his name, Cenk Cenk Ogre
Uyghur or something like that. He started the The Young Turks
(05:57):
again, another political organization, TYT.
So what he's known for Hassan Piker, what he is known for is
for his political commentating, not playing video games or
anything like that. So twitch is just a, a place to
stream as opposed to what it wasintended for, which is, you
know, like video game streamers.So he's, you know, like as old
as I am, if that makes any, any relevance there.
(06:22):
They're calling this collar gate, which is kind of funny.
They they put gate for absolutely everything after
Watergate. The scandal is that his dog was
on place command. His dog is a from what he
claims, I I don't necessarily believe him, but from what he
claims, it's a Tibetan mastiff Chow chow, Saint Bernard mix.
(06:45):
I don't think it's necessarily true because the dog is way too
small to be a mix of those threedogs, but.
So is that the controversy, the.Controversy is the fact that, as
far as I'm concerned, that's thecontroversy.
What do you think the dog is? A chow chow mix.
I mean it's the same size as a chow chow, but that's like
incredibly tiny for a Tibetan master, for a Saint Bernard, and
(07:06):
for that to be 2/3 of the genetics.
So you think straight Chow, nothing else.
Yeah, yeah. Or like Chow Golden, I don't
know, something along those lines.
Did you see the tongue color or no?
I couldn't see the tongue color.I did look, but the dog doesn't
have his mouth open very often. And like that's a thing.
Now, again, the clip in in mind which I sent to these two two
(07:32):
minutes ago is the fact that thedog is on place and when it gets
off, Hassan reaches over and then the dog yelps and gets back
on to place and lays down. And So what they're saying is
that he electrocuted his dog. These are all the titles that
are going that he's abusing his dog and all these things.
(07:54):
And in my opinion, probably the dumbest thing that he did was
then give in and start trying toexplain away everything and make
up lies because now he's being caught in lies and you know,
like all that kind of stuff. But that.
So that's the clip. And now people are going back,
as do all of his other streams and see, oh, look, the dog has
usually got his shock collar on her shock collar.
(08:16):
Her her name is Kaya. Sorry, you know she usually has
a shock collar on. All right, so we had some
technical difficulties by we, I mean Nelson, how we solve those.
During that time, we all watchedthe video of this character
abusing his dog. Yes, I guess that's up in the
air right now. But so we watched the video,
it's very short. We also watched a video of him
(08:39):
describing his take on what happened, and I think they're
both pretty relevant. So where do we want to go from
here? While we were watching Lost, you
said you were very uninterested in this topic.
That was a. Thing we need that needs to be
the trailer for this episode. I mean, that's a strong way of
putting it, but I just, I don't know, I don't see the relevance
(08:59):
of this individual enough to have it become a topic for us, I
guess. Well, there's a few things I
find interesting. Where do we want to start,
Nelson? Do you have preconceived
thoughts, notions? I do did he shock the dog or not
Because in his video he says he did not shock the dog.
He. Corrects the dog without a doubt
in my mind he corrects the dog. How he corrects the dog, I don't
(09:23):
know. I if he shocked the dog, I think
he needs to stop being a freaking baby and just say so.
But the the reason I think that this is a topic is because
people are literally asking us to react to it, right?
Obviously there's interest in the fact that as dog trainers
who have videos on E collars, they want to know did he
actually do it and is he an abusive monster?
(09:43):
Which I I think he corrected thedog 100%.
There's no doubt in my mind is he a monster?
Not for this. I mean I do think he's a
monster, but not for this. So I don't know.
Well, I've got a lot of thoughts.
So watching it, he's clearly angry at the dog.
Sure. And as we were watching it, like
(10:04):
I see a lot of anger in him, youknow, at the dog for getting up
and, you know, he's not necessarily screaming, but he's
like, he's pissed off, right? And he clearly reaches his hand
sideways and does something and then the dog yelps.
So one thing I guess I'd like tosay is if it's an E collar and
he did use the stem function andthe dog yelps, that alone and
(10:26):
does not make him a monster or abad person.
Yelping is not the goal of it ofcourse.
And if the dog is yelping then something needs adjusted to
prevent that. Like get the dog so it's not
stressed out or maybe it's on tighter than it normally is, or
it's making better contact than it normally is.
That could cause what could be anormal correction to be too
intense. So I don't have any opinions of
(10:48):
this guy but if he did use the stem function, which I think he
did, that alone doesn't make himbad.
You know people saying that he used the vibrate think I guess a
dog trainer. We know a lot of dogs are scared
of the vibration if you're if you don't acclimate it well, but
I cannot imagine a dog yelping from the vibration if they felt
(11:10):
it. I've never seen a dog Yelp from
the vibration even the first time I've seen him get nervous.
For sure you have. You must be a rougher trainer
than me I guess. Maybe, but particularly with the
2C that has a much stronger vibration than an arc.
Yeah, for sure I've. Seen fear, I've seen tail tucks.
And so let's go with what you'resaying, that you have seen a
Yelp. This dog, presumably he's acts
(11:33):
like he's had this collar for a while.
It's no big deal. There's an air tag on it, all
these things. The dog is gone through the
board and train. It is professionally.
Training with all of that information, the odds of a dog
yelping when you push vibration to me are are 0 if the dog has
been trained on this. Unless, and I'm not suggesting
this guy did this, but the only way I could see the dog yelping
(11:55):
is if normally you accompany thevibration with a hard
correction. If you accompany the vibration
with a, you know, slap or a scream or an E collar high level
stem, then sure the dog could get conditioned to that right
and could feel the vibration andYelp.
I'm not saying this guy did that, it's certainly a
possibility, but the more likely1 is that he's using the stem.
(12:16):
I just there's no way that a vibration made that dog Yelp if
he's been if he's had this collar on for a while.
I think that's a solid argument,one that I can get behind 100%.
You know, it would make much more sense that he corrected the
dog with the stimulation function.
And what he says about maybe shecaught her toe when she got
(12:36):
hurt. So I find that to be pretty
bizarre because if you watch hisreaction, no, I'm not saying it
could happen, certainly could. But like when I'm training a
dog, sometimes things happen, right?
Sometimes you step on their footand the dog yelps and you're
like, Oh my gosh. And you figure out what's going
on, right? Or you step on the leash when
you're not intended to and the dog gives himself a correction,
whatever. Like sometimes you make a
(12:57):
mistake, but then your first reaction is like, why did the
dog Yelp? And you're trying to figure it
out. He didn't do that.
So the dog yelped and he said like, Jesus Christ or something
like that, right? Like he didn't, he wasn't like,
oh man, buddy, what happened there?
So I watched that. I'm like, the Yelp seemed pretty
normal to him. He didn't seem surprised in the
slightest. If your dog doesn't generally
(13:20):
Yelp, then you're just pushing the vibration and your dog
squeals and you say you love this dog, which he says like 90
times. And that thing, it's more
important to him than anything in the world, more important
than any people. You think you would leap up?
Like why did my dog just squeal out of nowhere?
That seems really concerning. And he didn't, which makes me
think he wasn't surprised by thenoise at all.
(13:42):
I don't know. That seems like and something
that I've heard, you're not the only person that feels that way
to me. That seems, I don't know,
emotional, like people are upsetthat he didn't have the same
emotional response that they would have in that situation
where I can tell you having two rough playing dogs and three
(14:03):
very rough playing kids, yeah, dogs Yelp and you look over and
if they seem completely normal, you like I could tell you
numerous, numerous times my dogshave yelped.
I've looked over, they seem completely over it and I've
never run over there to check for blood or anything like that.
And in fact, even telling clients don't emotionally
(14:23):
overreact because you will actually create a traumatizing
situation, you know, or my toddler, for example, you know,
gets hurt. I don't go over there because
otherwise they're going to startcrying even more.
And then he gets up and walks off.
I agree with some of what you'resaying.
If my two dogs were wrestling and one of them yelped, I don't
know if I would even look over because like someone caught
(14:46):
someone else's ear too hard, right?
And I know they're not going to fight each other.
I'm not worried about what's going on.
So if it was just a Yelp, I don't know if I'd even pay any
attention to it getting on to the place caught and the dog
yelps. I would think like what's
happening here. That's a very odd scenario.
The dogs just like climbing ontoits cot and it yelps.
And you're not surprised by thatas the owner seems like you
(15:07):
would be like what caused it. Like you're talking about kids
and dogs roughhousing and the Yelp this dogs just climbing
onto its cot and it like yelps out of nowhere.
No, I'm assuming yelps because it got corrected.
Well I agree and I'm just sayingthat's in my opinion more of why
I think he was correcting the dog.
That's why he wasn't surprised by the Yelp.
For sure then I agree 100% on that.
(15:30):
Right. I am of the full opinion that he
corrected his dog, and I think you'd make a super solid
argument of the fact that it would be stem, not vibrate.
And I'm also just, I really feelstrongly that the way he reacted
to the Yelp tells me even more that he caused it and wasn't
surprised by it because later onhe says he was like, maybe she
got caught her nail. And I like, of course, I was
(15:51):
really worried. And like, you don't look
worried. You didn't say anything.
You looked like exasperated. Now I.
Agree with you that the nail portion of that whole thing
seems wonky. It seems, I don't know, it seems
like a like a flat out lie, right, Because then the dog
doesn't lick its toe. It doesn't like look or, or
(16:13):
check itself, right? It goes to the lays down.
He did look, he was watching. It's not as though he didn't
react at all. But I do agree with you that I,
I think he certainly caused the yelping.
My argument would be that, you know, like people are and I
don't know why they're getting emotional.
I guess that's a a fairpoint, but people are certainly getting
(16:34):
emotional over this. Well, so just to clear up that
he was watching, but he looked angry while he was watching,
right? It wasn't like the dog yelped
and he turned around like what was that?
And looked in like, Oh, no big deal.
He was like still to me looking intently, he was mad the dog had
gotten up. Can we?
And one of his reasons he was saying he was stressed out
(16:55):
because his Internet went down. So to me, what I don't like is
like, if he's lying, like, just own up to it and explain what's
going on because people have, like, to lose your cool is not
the end of the world. People do that, right?
So if he were to say, yeah, I corrected her and I did seem
like really mad and I probably shouldn't have been that mad.
(17:17):
And I kind of took it out on thedog and I was actually mad about
the situation. People make mistakes.
But, you know, that's not what he says at all.
So to me, that's I think why there's so much controversy
here. I think can I ask a question?
Go for it. My first thought, you know how I
feel about the place command. How much time does this dog
spend on this place cot? Because a lot of people are
(17:39):
talking about the comments I've seen like he treats it as a
prop. The dog is just there as a prop
for views. Is this dog on this place cot
like all day when he's doing these streams?
So from just skipping around andlooking through some of his past
streams and stuff like that, andthis is pretty brief.
I don't and watch this guy very often, but there's times where
(18:00):
the dog is on place and then there's times where the dog is
walking around and then there's time where you don't see the dog
at all. So then my response to that
would be, which is why I searched up how long are his
dreams in general, right? And on average, the $78 average.
So we're, we're saying minimum 51%, minimum 51% of dogs in
(18:22):
America are in the cage for 10 hours.
You know, hour drive to work, 8 hour work, hour drive home.
Does that seem vastly different than being on place?
Well, let me ask, I guess it's just a rebuttal to that.
The dogs that are in a cage for 10 hours, they're allowed to
stand up, turn around. I don't know if he lets this dog
(18:43):
stand up and turn around on place or if the dog has to lay,
but that's also often a necessity.
So the dog doesn't die, right? They're gone.
They don't want the dog to get into something.
I can't wrap my head around if he's streaming, why would the
dog need to be in the place command for long periods of
time? Why can't it walk around?
Wouldn't the same rule apply so the as a necessity so the dog
(19:06):
doesn't die? But is he worried about that?
He says the dog's professionallytrained and it's not a puppy.
So and he's in the house. I guess I would find it
shocking, Oh no pun intended, that his dog that he needs him
in the place because he's worried about him chewing up a
wire and dying. Now there's a decent amount of
footage where the dog is not even in frame that the dog is
(19:29):
not on place. The dog is walking around, it's
meeting a lot of people, which to me was shocking because it it
does look like a dog that would have a problem socializing.
So obviously there has been workdone right, at the very least
socializing. But you know, again, I don't
know to to me it seems like the whole place argument is all.
(19:50):
And this is something that me and you have always kind of
differed on. The whole place argument seems
just an emotional gotcha. I don't know, I'm not see, I
feel differently on that becauseso like what's the longest that
you think it's reasonable to keep a dog on place?
I mean, what's the longest that I think is reasonable or what's
the longest I've had a dog on place?
(20:11):
I guess both. I mean like I've had a dog on
place, I don't know, like 2 hours, 2.
What's the longest reasonable? In theory, if we're writing all
of this down on paper, the reasonable amount of place on a
comfy bed is the same amount of time that I would leave a dog in
a crate because they're doing the exact same thing.
It's containment. If anything, you could argue
(20:33):
that one's more comfortable thanthe other, which would be place
command because there's it's nota rigid bottom right.
So again, the to me if he had his dog on place the entire time
because otherwise he would have his dog in a crate the entire
time, it seems like the exact same thing.
But that seems like. I don't know.
(20:55):
I think people argue with the fact that he's home, right.
Does that does that make a difference?
I mean, to me, I just don't get it.
So if you said like why would the dog need to be on place for
hours upon hours? So if he he's home, so why can't
the dog? He's not a puppy, why can't he
be free? And if you say, well, if he's
out of sight, he can't see if he's getting into something, why
(21:17):
not shut the door to your room? Presumably it is.
I can't imagine he's streaming in a room with open doors for
sound quality issues and then echoes if the door.
Let's say there is no door and he can't do that, put a gate up.
I I don't understand if you're there 7 to 8 hours a day, why
would you? I just don't understand why you
would need to make your dog lay down on place.
I can't wrap my head around it and you know what you know I'm
(21:39):
coming at this room. Not a huge fan of the place
command, but I do like it for certain scenarios.
I like it. Doorbell rings and the owner can
now say place. Two dogs about to fight, you
tell them place they run the opposite sides.
You want to do a down stay with a, you know, Dr. E dog and you
needed to chill out. You know, each evening or when
the kids get home from school. I can, you know, kind of get
(22:00):
that but like 7 hours while you stream.
I just don't understand why the dog can't just do what it wants.
What if it would bark out of thewindow?
Disrupt his cash. Flow.
Just shock it. That's what he's already doing.
He's like, yeah, she caught her nail over there on something.
That tricky dog. Oh, I think she she tripped.
(22:23):
That's why she's screaming rightnow.
I don't I just fixed that then Idon't know.
I just don't get the the whole leave the dog in place all day
thing, but I'm also coming at this.
I don't. That was why my I had that
question. How long is this dog in place?
And, and like I said, I've seen plenty of footage where the dog
is nowhere even in frame becausethat's been a major criticism of
(22:44):
him. Is shock callers equals abuse
Accountability for people is good, but accountability for
dogs is bad Didn't didn't rush in an emotional panic to check
his dog and then place for too long.
Those seem to be the four criticisms of Collar Gate here.
Yeah, and if we break it out of let's say he corrected the dog
(23:05):
on a me collar because we both feel that way.
Vloss, do you feel that way? I mean, from watching the video,
it certainly looks like the dog is corrected to Nelson's point,
whether it was shock or it reacted to stem or or to vibrate
I should say, but it certainly looks like he did something and
the dog reacted to it so. Definitely we're in agreement
there. I feel strongly it had to be
(23:25):
stem. I just vibration, I think with a
trained dog could not do that. So let's say it was stem.
My first thought is the fact of the dog yelped does not mean
he's abusive. So I would absolve him of that.
Just you can't say he's abusive just because the dog yelped and
Tom talked a little bit. I just watched like the intro of
his video, but talked a little bit about that.
(23:47):
Like sometimes they Yelp and that's not the goal.
So you obviously if the dog's yelping consistently, the
collar's too high and it should be turned down.
But like we I'd said earlier, fit could have been different
than normal collar. Could he set higher than normal
for some reason? Who knows?
But the fact the dog yelled to me doesn't mean he's a bad
person. The fact that he didn't react
(24:09):
also doesn't mean he's a bad person.
Because to me, if he didn't react, he and he knows why, then
he knows the dog's not hurt. Sure, if the collar's just a
little bit tighter, the dog probably has a known history of
when the E collar's on a little snugger or whatever to vocalize
like that. So the fact that the dog did it
and he didn't react, I don't think it's a very big deal
(24:29):
because he knew why the dog did it.
He didn't think the dog was hurt.
He didn't think the dog caught his nail, at least in my, my
take on the situation. So the fact that he didn't
react, I don't think seems like a big deal.
I think his anger in like attitude towards the dog seems
like a big deal. He seems really mad, like just,
and I would encourage anyone who's hasn't watched it, if
you're intrigued to watch it andsee what I see.
(24:51):
Like he looks legitimately angry.
He doesn't look dispassionate, he doesn't like let's say you
were using the E collar and the dog broke place.
I think it should look more likeno as you push the button if
that's how you're training and then place.
No. I would agree with you
completely. I feel like the anger is the
thing that I have the biggest issue with in the video.
(25:13):
But I don't know much about thisindividual, right?
From my understanding of what he's become famous for, he's
become famous for being loud andobnoxious and sort of a a jerk,
right? So to me, the fact that he
reacts to his dog that way isn'tall that surprising.
And then his fans like him for being loud and a jerk and
(25:36):
obnoxious. Obnoxious, right?
So I guess like, I don't know, it just, it seems weird to me to
get all worked up when that's the person it seems like he is.
And I don't like him as a personbased off of what I heard there,
right? But I wouldn't have been
listening to him in the first place.
So. You got a thought, Nelson by.
I do have a thought. One of the reasons why I like E
(25:58):
collar training for clients is Ioften tell them that it is a
cleaner correction than a tug ona prong collar or a regular
collar or even a harness, right?And what I mean by cleaner
correction, meaning that it's much more consistent and it
doesn't take your emotions into play when you correct a dog.
(26:22):
And that's hugely beneficial to me and other clients.
That means you could have a softer client correct in a way
that's significant to a tougher dog.
That also means that you could have a tougher person correct in
a proper way for a softer dog because the stimulation is
consistent, a clean correction. That would be my argument to the
(26:45):
point that you guys have, which is because he's frustrated,
because he's angry. I'm frustrated right now that I
got to defend this guy because he's frustrated and because he's
angry. That doesn't necessarily mean
that he picked up the remote, cranked it up and hit the button
in an in like some kind of wild type of situation and merely the
fact that he hit the button. Covey said this already.
(27:06):
I think the bigger thing is thathe's not owning that part of it,
right? He's not owning I.
Agree. That's my huge criticism is the
fact that he's lying. Well, but on top of that, so
like if this was one of our trainers, I'd be pissed and like
and not pissed like fire them orscream at them, but I would walk
them through what I see there isfrustration that's not
(27:29):
warranted. So like, no one's perfect,
right? So if your dog is running
through the house, your kids areplaying and the dog jumps up and
scratches one of your kids and you're frustrated and you yell
no, you run over, then you're like get off or whatever, right?
And then you think back and you're like, OK, maybe I was a
little too, too over the top that time.
(27:50):
I should have been maybe a little more chill.
That is so much different than this dog just simply stood up
from the place command like picture when you have a dog like
in a stay commands. If I had a dog here right now
and I often have my board and trains in here like when I'm on
calls and they'll be in a stay and they got up, my response
would be like, hey, no down staybecause of what they did, right?
(28:15):
They stood up calmly and I know a calm voice is going to get
them back to their down stay. Now not to say I don't ever use
a stern voice. If they broke the down stay till
I charge and rush through a gatewhile another dog was eating to
try to steal their food. I'm not going to say like no
buddy, don't, don't run through the gate and steal food.
Right? I'm going to be a lot sterner,
but you would watch it. I'm like, well that was
(28:36):
warranted. You needed that sternness to
control them, but here you didn't.
So that's what I find so strangeis the amount of kind of
animosity and anger from the dogjust simply standing up.
I don't understand why you can'tjust say no, hey.
Point of clarification, got off of the bed, not standing up.
(28:56):
I don't think he corrected the dog for standing.
He got he corrected the dog for breaking place.
Yeah, maybe I explained it wrong, like I saw the dog get
up. So yeah, getting good
clarification for listeners, butmy thought would be that's the
same as breaking a down stay in the house.
And if the dog broke a down stayand just stood up and took a
step, I can't imagine having that level of anger and
(29:19):
frustration versus just telling him to do it again.
So I agree with you as a dog trainer and someone who is, you
know, handy with dogs, I would agree that, you know, kind of
blowing up or whatever would be out of hand.
So that's not to say I haven't seen clients do it.
You know, people who are frustrated that their dogs
(29:40):
aren't doing perfect like they were expecting and are
frustrated the fact that there'sextra work to be done or, or
work that they didn't expect to have to be done.
Hey, before we get off leash, weactually need to work on leash
with, you know, distraction, whatever, right?
All I'm saying is that there arenormal people.
Normal in the in the sense that they're not dog trainers who get
frustrated working with their dog.
(30:02):
But I think the point is still that then afterwards, to be able
to look back on the situation, admit that you were overly
worked up about something that you shouldn't have been, and
just own that right to be like, yeah, I overreacted.
I shouldn't have. I shouldn't have been that angry
at my dog for taking a step off of its cock.
I agree 1000% with that. And I agree wholeheartedly with
(30:26):
the fact that again, my biggest criticism is the fact that he's
lying and trying to, you know, like, I don't know, dodge
accountability with the fact that he corrected his dog.
He should absolutely say, hey, Iwas angry.
I corrected my dog on an E collar.
This is something that the dog is, you know, trained for.
(30:48):
But you know, whatever, I was angrier than I should have been
in that situation. The problem I have is the fact
that he's trying to come up withdifferent lines, right?
Like, oh, it was his toe, it wasthis, it was that.
It's a vibrate only collar. You know all that stuff.
But I don't know. All I'm saying is that I've seen
many normal people, again normalbeing not dog trainers, get
(31:12):
frustrated with their dogs. The lying part, I agree 1000%
with you guys is that that is the big crime here.
That is, the problem that I havein this situation with him is
the fact that as soon as there'sany pushback at all whatsoever,
his response is to dodge and deflect instead of being honest,
(31:33):
and I find that more despicable.My overall thought is I think
similar to that and I think it'sjust that the issue.
I mean obviously I don't think you should lie about the E
collar, but to be honest I get it like you shouldn't.
But he's got fans and people wholike if he's lied about it for a
while or said he hasn't used oneto now come clean and say he's
(31:53):
using 1 is going to create. So like, I don't think you
should lie. I'm not I'm not advocating to
lie, but I I get it. What I don't get is not coming
clean about like, hey, watching that, I kind of feel like a
shithead. I was kind of mean to my dog,
even if it wasn't the Yelp. Like to me, the once again, just
the attitude. And I'm not holding myself out
(32:14):
to be perfect. Like if you had a video of my
entire life, have I ever overreacted with my kids and
been like, more unhappy than I should have been?
Yeah, of course. Right.
As like, I don't think anyone can say I've never been angrier
at my spouse than I should have been or my kids or my best
friend or whatever. Like, we're humans.
We obviously make mistakes, so Idon't even hold that against
(32:36):
them. I would I, and I don't think
this will come of this, but whatI don't like, I don't want
people to watch that and think like that's a good way to
interact with your dog. I would want people to watch it
and say, hey, that's that's a mistake, right?
That's a training mistake. That's a lifestyle mistake.
We should try to fix that and weshould.
The only time that level of anger, in my opinion, is
(32:57):
warranted to a dog is when they've done something pretty
bad and you want them to know like that was really, really bad
and you should never do that again.
I think that that's a really good take on the situation,
right? And and something that we
advocate all the time. What we tell, or at least you
know, what I've told, told a lotof clients and cover you, I've
heard you say 1,000,000 times isthe fact that, you know, if
(33:18):
you're angry and frustrated, it's not a good time to train
dogs. All right, It's, it's better to
put them up somewhere where theycan relax.
You can relax and then get back to a session when both of you
guys are level, you know, clear headed, level headed, whatever
the case may be. And it's to prevent situations
just like this, right where you're where you're already
frustrated and then your dog does something minor and then
(33:39):
you overreact because of it. And so I mean, I got I think
that that's a really, really good point.
And that would probably be the the best advice that you could
give this guy would be if you'reangry, leave your dog out of it.
All right. And just, you know, let her, let
her go do I don't know, whateverelse, something else.
And again, I, I certainly agree with that part that my biggest
(34:03):
issue with this whole thing is the, the lying, you know,
portion. Yeah, and I think we're still
slightly different. I don't like the anger.
I can I can absolve him of the lion a little bit easier.
The anger is the part of it I don't like either.
But I I, I do go back to though,and again, I'll preface it
again, I don't. I've never listened to much that
(34:25):
this guy has done. So I don't know, isn't it?
Isn't that his shtick? Being angry, those.
Things. So yeah.
I mean, wild and emotional, yeah.
Well, and just to be clear to anyone listening, I'm not
advocating for not ever being really stern with a dog or
showing the dog you're like extreme displeasure.
(34:45):
It's but it should be thought out with a plan and be
appropriate. So there are times where like I
tell a client like you need to be way harder in this scenario
and your dog needs to know how big of a deal this is.
But these are like more life anddeath type scenarios.
Not the dog got out of the placecommand.
If I saw that out of one of my clients for like breaking a
(35:07):
stay, I would have a long conversation with him.
Like you cannot do that. But if I saw that out of like, I
don't know, you called the dog and he got halfway to you and
then he raced to the window barking and the dog's pretty
good at come and these you've done this for months.
And I saw that level of frustration.
I feel a lot different. Yeah, I also think that what I'm
(35:30):
assuming is kind of more along the lines of what Vloss is
saying here is the fact that he is kind of always half cocked,
right? Or at the very least that he was
more frustrated and that his personality lends to that.
And the dog just so happened to break place at that moment when
he was already upset, and not the fact that because the dog
(35:51):
broke place, that is why he was at that level of anger.
So you know, a lifestyle change like you were talking about
makes way more sense than necessarily a training tweak.
I feel like when you say it, it sounds like you're defending.
And what I'm saying is people shouldn't be surprised by him
being like that because that's who it seems like he is.
(36:12):
I'm not defending him as far as you are.
Being. Right, like he should.
He should work on his again. You should always work on being
emotional. 10 minutes ago you were like, I have to defend this
guy. I think that was your exact
phrase. Because again, I also have a
problem with people being emotional in in in the opposite
way. Again, there's there's two
(36:33):
wrongs here and being emotional is not the answer to either.
One overall, I don't know this guy.
I've never even heard of him until this video, so I don't
have preconceived notions. But if his gimmick is to be
angry all the time, that sounds like a really shitty life to be
watching stuff and streaming forseven or eight hours, and you've
got to be agitated that whole time.
Now I kind of want to watch him a little bit to see how agitated
(36:56):
he is. For context, not for political
points, but for context, he regularly calls for the murder
of conservatives, of conservative Americans.
Like he was talking about a couple of weeks ago that you
should be spilling their guts onthe floor in the streets and
that the streets to run red with, with conservative blood,
(37:17):
with Republicans blood. Like when you start to hear all
of that kind of stuff, it's liketo have lost his point of like,
you shouldn't be surprised of the fact that he was angry and
then acted angrily. Right, That's my exact point.
And again, I, I didn't know any of that, right?
Like that's all new information to me.
But again, if he's going to talklike that about people, of
course he probably feels the same about animals, right?
(37:40):
Oh, you think he wants to kill conservative dogs?
What do you think is the most conservative dog breed?
I was just thinking that and theonly thing that makes sense to
me is like the American Eskimo dog, and only because it has
like America in the name, no. That wouldn't be the most
conservative dog. Would have built like a a la
(38:02):
paha blue blooded bulldog. I mean like how many dogs are
actually coming from America? You know what I mean?
I. Don't think that part of it
matters. It's more of their mindset, I'd
say. I don't know why, but the the
dog that I would pick is a dobe.And maybe it's because earlier
today Covey was talking about a Doberman and it's just in my
head. But that's the dog I would pick
for conservative, for conservatives.
(38:23):
On that note, I've got to go fairly soon to go meet that
Doberman. Yeah, I don't know what I would
say, but Dobes have gotten pretty kind of trendy.
In a conservative way or a non conservative way?
Not conservative way like in thecity.
Young, trendy millennials like Dobes?
Well, I think. You both need to.
(38:44):
I think you both need to pick a dog breed for this.
Now, since I did, I don't know why I think you need to pick 1,
and I think Nelson needs to comeup with one that isn't just
named after America. German Shepherd there's to me
that like that's just what comesto mind is.
I'm going. Yeah, I got a homestead within a
German Shepherd that that watch.I don't see that.
(39:05):
Very. I don't see that.
GSP. I don't know man, I think even
like a blue tick coonhound seemsmore conservative than a GSP.
But AGSP is owned by people thathunt birds who are way more
likely to be conservative. But now I feel like it's getting
confusing of are the owners the conservative ones or the dog?
(39:25):
I was trying to think of like the dog is the conservative 1,
not the. Nerves.
I don't know how to. I did not take the eyes.
That's what I. Was trying to figure out like
the dog is the conservative. I don't know how.
For sure. Jim Shepard.
That might have to be absolutelygood.
OK, well, maybe we should do it,because I don't even know where
(39:46):
we'd start. I guess we'd have to come up
with the criteria for what a conservative American is and
then apply that to animals somehow.
Well, without fighting in the comments, anyone who's
listening, drop a comment on what do you think is the most
conservative or liberal dog breed based upon either the
dog's personality or the owner'spersonality.
(40:07):
That's your call. It doesn't doesn't really
matter. All right, well, good episode.
Thanks for bringing this, Nelson.
Anyone who has questions drop a comment and we will link in the
bio the videos we watch so you can see them.
Oh, there you go. Yeah.
All right, no bio. I don't know why I said bio
comments bio no in the video description.
Nice. OK, I'm just get I'll cut that
(40:28):
so I sound super smart, but I'llput a robot voice link in the
description. Description.
All right. Bye everybody.
I'll see you guys. Day press play and let's begin.
(40:50):
Welcome to the pack. You are officially in.
Treats. Delicious.
Shaping the game. Mark, you're right.
It's never the same. Big dogs, small dogs, every
kind. If you love canines, TuneIn,
rewind, laugh and learn. Level up your game.
Suburban canine, remember the name.
Sit, stay, press play. Let's begin.
Welcome to the pack you are officially in.
(41:12):
Sit, stay, press play. Let's begin.
Sit, stay, press playing. Let's begin.
Welcome to the pack you are officially in.
Treats, leashes, shaping the game.
Mark your right, it's never the same.
Big dogs, small dogs, every kind.
If you love canines, tuning, rewind, laugh and learn level of
your game Suburban canine, remember the name.
(00:33):
All right, guys. Well, we have lost his favorite
thing in the world. We are doing this episode on the
fly and we're ignoring our documents.
Yeah, I'm pretty pumped. You seemed.
Really agitated a few minutes ago.
Well, because you acted like I knew what the topic was when you
never sent it to me. You send me a random video like
(00:54):
a minute before we start and expect me to be like, Oh my
gosh, yeah, I know what we're doing.
But I I did send it to you, it just wasn't in the timely
manner. So let's tee this up, Nelson,
You brought this to me like an hour ago and said, hey, we
should talk about this. How do you pronounce the guy's
name? Hassan Piker.
OK, this Hassan character, yes, and I've never even heard his
(01:16):
name. I only know about him because
last week we started getting allthese comments on some of our E
collar videos and people asking me to do reaction videos and for
like input on what went on. And I assumed they were talking
about the founder of sit means sit because his last name is
similar. Fred's last name is similar to
(01:38):
this other guy's first name. So I start Googling Fred.
I'm like shit like what did he do?
I'm like, and nothing comes up and I kept looking and looking.
I'm like, there's literally no controversy at all.
But you should see our charts like the views on our E collar
videos skyrocketed, particularlyone about I think it's called
like our E collars cruel. And it's not a training video.
(01:59):
It's just like talking to E collars and then people arguing
about Hassan on there. So that's how I became aware of
it, and then I didn't know. Some video to have out there.
You, me, you were ahead of the curve on that one for sure.
I was and I did not do a reaction video.
I saw Tom Davis did one. I watched a couple minutes of
it, but it looks like he didn't do all that much.
(02:21):
The comments on it weren't all that good.
There were a lot of people that seemed agitated that he didn't
understand the whole situation. He came at it like a dog
trainer. But I think not knowing what
this Hassan character actually does in his videos.
So I am curious. So that that's our lead in.
So Nelson, you, I haven't seen the video.
I saw a clip where the dog yelps.
So I have seen that, yeah, you know a lot more about this than
(02:44):
us. So do you want to go ahead and
take over from here on what's happened and then we'll talk
through it? I do want to preface the fact
that I too am a dog trainer and I am coming at this as a dog
trainer and not a political pundit or or anything like that.
You know, as far as I can see, this is a dog training
(03:08):
situation. Let let me expand then, Nelson,
sorry to cut you off. The issue people had with Tom
was he didn't look into like he had comments on his own video
saying like, oh, I've no idea how long the guy used this
place. I don't know what the dog does.
And people are like, well, that's super relevant.
You should know that before you make a video.
So there was a lot of but I think it's because Tom's videos
(03:31):
usually have only his fans watching them.
And now you've got a bunch of random people who don't know
him, could care less about him, that are upset, and then watch
the video. So I think it was a video that
was primed to have a lot of anger.
And I, I really do think that that is again, why we're even
talking about it here, simply for the fact that we are not
(03:51):
talking to people who are Privy to dog training or people who
know about dog training. Because I think anyone, even our
clients, not even just other dogtrainers that we know, but even
our clients would probably look at the situation and say, Oh,
yeah, OK, you're like, yeah, that, that looks pretty normal
to me. Pretty standard.
No big deal. What what we're seeing is an
(04:12):
influx of emotional people trying to find information that
they can use to cudgel whoever their opponent is in that
moment. Right.
And the reason I say that this isn't even political is because
you're you're seeing that on both sides.
Right leaning people are using it as a crutch for left-leaning
people and left-leaning people are using it as a cudgel for
(04:33):
right leaning people. Go ahead.
What's up? I feel like you're talking with
the assumption that people know what you're talking about at
this point. And you're also talking like the
majority of people who are goingto be listening are not our
listeners, but our people who found it because of they know
about this topic. Do you like, I mean, First off,
Covey explained who he thought this guy was, but never actually
(04:54):
explained who he was. So who's the dude?
What's the video show? Like, what's the situation?
I feel like you're you're putting the cart before the
horse here. Maybe you're right.
I apologize. So the guy's name is Hassan
Piker. He is an American Twitch
streamer, political commentator,and he streams for like 7 to 8
(05:15):
hours a day, every day. I mean, he does like that's,
that's what he's known for is like marathon streaming and that
kind of stuff. So Twitch is like video game
streaming, like he's streaming himself playing a game.
But then that's. What it started as, and now it's
just as political as everything else.
And so now it's just you're going to watch him read the news
(05:35):
reply, you know, like react to videos and that kind of stuff.
So for the most part, what he isknown for is for his political
activism and younger career being with his uncle.
His uncle is forget how to how to say his name, Cenk Cenk Ogre
Uyghur or something like that. He started the The Young Turks
(05:57):
again, another political organization, TYT.
So what he's known for Hassan Piker, what he is known for is
for his political commentating, not playing video games or
anything like that. So twitch is just a, a place to
stream as opposed to what it wasintended for, which is, you
know, like video game streamers.So he's, you know, like as old
as I am, if that makes any, any relevance there.
(06:22):
They're calling this collar gate, which is kind of funny.
They they put gate for absolutely everything after
Watergate. The scandal is that his dog was
on place command. His dog is a from what he
claims, I I don't necessarily believe him, but from what he
claims, it's a Tibetan mastiff Chow chow, Saint Bernard mix.
(06:45):
I don't think it's necessarily true because the dog is way too
small to be a mix of those threedogs, but.
So is that the controversy, the.Controversy is the fact that, as
far as I'm concerned, that's thecontroversy.
What do you think the dog is? A chow chow mix.
I mean it's the same size as a chow chow, but that's like
incredibly tiny for a Tibetan master, for a Saint Bernard, and
(07:06):
for that to be 2/3 of the genetics.
So you think straight Chow, nothing else.
Yeah, yeah. Or like Chow Golden, I don't
know, something along those lines.
Did you see the tongue color or no?
I couldn't see the tongue color.I did look, but the dog doesn't
have his mouth open very often. And like that's a thing.
Now, again, the clip in in mind which I sent to these two two
(07:32):
minutes ago is the fact that thedog is on place and when it gets
off, Hassan reaches over and then the dog yelps and gets back
on to place and lays down. And So what they're saying is
that he electrocuted his dog. These are all the titles that
are going that he's abusing his dog and all these things.
(07:54):
And in my opinion, probably the dumbest thing that he did was
then give in and start trying toexplain away everything and make
up lies because now he's being caught in lies and you know,
like all that kind of stuff. But that.
So that's the clip. And now people are going back,
as do all of his other streams and see, oh, look, the dog has
usually got his shock collar on her shock collar.
(08:16):
Her her name is Kaya. Sorry, you know she usually has
a shock collar on. All right, so we had some
technical difficulties by we, I mean Nelson, how we solve those.
During that time, we all watchedthe video of this character
abusing his dog. Yes, I guess that's up in the
air right now. But so we watched the video,
it's very short. We also watched a video of him
(08:39):
describing his take on what happened, and I think they're
both pretty relevant. So where do we want to go from
here? While we were watching Lost, you
said you were very uninterested in this topic.
That was a. Thing we need that needs to be
the trailer for this episode. I mean, that's a strong way of
putting it, but I just, I don't know, I don't see the relevance
(08:59):
of this individual enough to have it become a topic for us, I
guess. Well, there's a few things I
find interesting. Where do we want to start,
Nelson? Do you have preconceived
thoughts, notions? I do did he shock the dog or not
Because in his video he says he did not shock the dog.
He. Corrects the dog without a doubt
in my mind he corrects the dog. How he corrects the dog, I don't
(09:23):
know. I if he shocked the dog, I think
he needs to stop being a freaking baby and just say so.
But the the reason I think that this is a topic is because
people are literally asking us to react to it, right?
Obviously there's interest in the fact that as dog trainers
who have videos on E collars, they want to know did he
actually do it and is he an abusive monster?
(09:43):
Which I I think he corrected thedog 100%.
There's no doubt in my mind is he a monster?
Not for this. I mean I do think he's a
monster, but not for this. So I don't know.
Well, I've got a lot of thoughts.
So watching it, he's clearly angry at the dog.
Sure. And as we were watching it, like
(10:04):
I see a lot of anger in him, youknow, at the dog for getting up
and, you know, he's not necessarily screaming, but he's
like, he's pissed off, right? And he clearly reaches his hand
sideways and does something and then the dog yelps.
So one thing I guess I'd like tosay is if it's an E collar and
he did use the stem function andthe dog yelps, that alone and
(10:26):
does not make him a monster or abad person.
Yelping is not the goal of it ofcourse.
And if the dog is yelping then something needs adjusted to
prevent that. Like get the dog so it's not
stressed out or maybe it's on tighter than it normally is, or
it's making better contact than it normally is.
That could cause what could be anormal correction to be too
intense. So I don't have any opinions of
(10:48):
this guy but if he did use the stem function, which I think he
did, that alone doesn't make himbad.
You know people saying that he used the vibrate think I guess a
dog trainer. We know a lot of dogs are scared
of the vibration if you're if you don't acclimate it well, but
I cannot imagine a dog yelping from the vibration if they felt
(11:10):
it. I've never seen a dog Yelp from
the vibration even the first time I've seen him get nervous.
For sure you have. You must be a rougher trainer
than me I guess. Maybe, but particularly with the
2C that has a much stronger vibration than an arc.
Yeah, for sure I've. Seen fear, I've seen tail tucks.
And so let's go with what you'resaying, that you have seen a
Yelp. This dog, presumably he's acts
(11:33):
like he's had this collar for a while.
It's no big deal. There's an air tag on it, all
these things. The dog is gone through the
board and train. It is professionally.
Training with all of that information, the odds of a dog
yelping when you push vibration to me are are 0 if the dog has
been trained on this. Unless, and I'm not suggesting
this guy did this, but the only way I could see the dog yelping
(11:55):
is if normally you accompany thevibration with a hard
correction. If you accompany the vibration
with a, you know, slap or a scream or an E collar high level
stem, then sure the dog could get conditioned to that right
and could feel the vibration andYelp.
I'm not saying this guy did that, it's certainly a
possibility, but the more likely1 is that he's using the stem.
(12:16):
I just there's no way that a vibration made that dog Yelp if
he's been if he's had this collar on for a while.
I think that's a solid argument,one that I can get behind 100%.
You know, it would make much more sense that he corrected the
dog with the stimulation function.
And what he says about maybe shecaught her toe when she got
(12:36):
hurt. So I find that to be pretty
bizarre because if you watch hisreaction, no, I'm not saying it
could happen, certainly could. But like when I'm training a
dog, sometimes things happen, right?
Sometimes you step on their footand the dog yelps and you're
like, Oh my gosh. And you figure out what's going
on, right? Or you step on the leash when
you're not intended to and the dog gives himself a correction,
whatever. Like sometimes you make a
(12:57):
mistake, but then your first reaction is like, why did the
dog Yelp? And you're trying to figure it
out. He didn't do that.
So the dog yelped and he said like, Jesus Christ or something
like that, right? Like he didn't, he wasn't like,
oh man, buddy, what happened there?
So I watched that. I'm like, the Yelp seemed pretty
normal to him. He didn't seem surprised in the
slightest. If your dog doesn't generally
(13:20):
Yelp, then you're just pushing the vibration and your dog
squeals and you say you love this dog, which he says like 90
times. And that thing, it's more
important to him than anything in the world, more important
than any people. You think you would leap up?
Like why did my dog just squeal out of nowhere?
That seems really concerning. And he didn't, which makes me
think he wasn't surprised by thenoise at all.
(13:42):
I don't know. That seems like and something
that I've heard, you're not the only person that feels that way
to me. That seems, I don't know,
emotional, like people are upsetthat he didn't have the same
emotional response that they would have in that situation
where I can tell you having two rough playing dogs and three
(14:03):
very rough playing kids, yeah, dogs Yelp and you look over and
if they seem completely normal, you like I could tell you
numerous, numerous times my dogshave yelped.
I've looked over, they seem completely over it and I've
never run over there to check for blood or anything like that.
And in fact, even telling clients don't emotionally
(14:23):
overreact because you will actually create a traumatizing
situation, you know, or my toddler, for example, you know,
gets hurt. I don't go over there because
otherwise they're going to startcrying even more.
And then he gets up and walks off.
I agree with some of what you'resaying.
If my two dogs were wrestling and one of them yelped, I don't
know if I would even look over because like someone caught
(14:46):
someone else's ear too hard, right?
And I know they're not going to fight each other.
I'm not worried about what's going on.
So if it was just a Yelp, I don't know if I'd even pay any
attention to it getting on to the place caught and the dog
yelps. I would think like what's
happening here. That's a very odd scenario.
The dogs just like climbing ontoits cot and it yelps.
And you're not surprised by thatas the owner seems like you
(15:07):
would be like what caused it. Like you're talking about kids
and dogs roughhousing and the Yelp this dogs just climbing
onto its cot and it like yelps out of nowhere.
No, I'm assuming yelps because it got corrected.
Well I agree and I'm just sayingthat's in my opinion more of why
I think he was correcting the dog.
That's why he wasn't surprised by the Yelp.
For sure then I agree 100% on that.
(15:30):
Right. I am of the full opinion that he
corrected his dog, and I think you'd make a super solid
argument of the fact that it would be stem, not vibrate.
And I'm also just, I really feelstrongly that the way he reacted
to the Yelp tells me even more that he caused it and wasn't
surprised by it because later onhe says he was like, maybe she
got caught her nail. And I like, of course, I was
(15:51):
really worried. And like, you don't look
worried. You didn't say anything.
You looked like exasperated. Now I.
Agree with you that the nail portion of that whole thing
seems wonky. It seems, I don't know, it seems
like a like a flat out lie, right, Because then the dog
doesn't lick its toe. It doesn't like look or, or
(16:13):
check itself, right? It goes to the lays down.
He did look, he was watching. It's not as though he didn't
react at all. But I do agree with you that I,
I think he certainly caused the yelping.
My argument would be that, you know, like people are and I
don't know why they're getting emotional.
I guess that's a a fairpoint, but people are certainly getting
(16:34):
emotional over this. Well, so just to clear up that
he was watching, but he looked angry while he was watching,
right? It wasn't like the dog yelped
and he turned around like what was that?
And looked in like, Oh, no big deal.
He was like still to me looking intently, he was mad the dog had
gotten up. Can we?
And one of his reasons he was saying he was stressed out
(16:55):
because his Internet went down. So to me, what I don't like is
like, if he's lying, like, just own up to it and explain what's
going on because people have, like, to lose your cool is not
the end of the world. People do that, right?
So if he were to say, yeah, I corrected her and I did seem
like really mad and I probably shouldn't have been that mad.
(17:17):
And I kind of took it out on thedog and I was actually mad about
the situation. People make mistakes.
But, you know, that's not what he says at all.
So to me, that's I think why there's so much controversy
here. I think can I ask a question?
Go for it. My first thought, you know how I
feel about the place command. How much time does this dog
spend on this place cot? Because a lot of people are
(17:39):
talking about the comments I've seen like he treats it as a
prop. The dog is just there as a prop
for views. Is this dog on this place cot
like all day when he's doing these streams?
So from just skipping around andlooking through some of his past
streams and stuff like that, andthis is pretty brief.
I don't and watch this guy very often, but there's times where
(18:00):
the dog is on place and then there's times where the dog is
walking around and then there's time where you don't see the dog
at all. So then my response to that
would be, which is why I searched up how long are his
dreams in general, right? And on average, the $78 average.
So we're, we're saying minimum 51%, minimum 51% of dogs in
(18:22):
America are in the cage for 10 hours.
You know, hour drive to work, 8 hour work, hour drive home.
Does that seem vastly different than being on place?
Well, let me ask, I guess it's just a rebuttal to that.
The dogs that are in a cage for 10 hours, they're allowed to
stand up, turn around. I don't know if he lets this dog
(18:43):
stand up and turn around on place or if the dog has to lay,
but that's also often a necessity.
So the dog doesn't die, right? They're gone.
They don't want the dog to get into something.
I can't wrap my head around if he's streaming, why would the
dog need to be in the place command for long periods of
time? Why can't it walk around?
Wouldn't the same rule apply so the as a necessity so the dog
(19:06):
doesn't die? But is he worried about that?
He says the dog's professionallytrained and it's not a puppy.
So and he's in the house. I guess I would find it
shocking, Oh no pun intended, that his dog that he needs him
in the place because he's worried about him chewing up a
wire and dying. Now there's a decent amount of
footage where the dog is not even in frame that the dog is
(19:29):
not on place. The dog is walking around, it's
meeting a lot of people, which to me was shocking because it it
does look like a dog that would have a problem socializing.
So obviously there has been workdone right, at the very least
socializing. But you know, again, I don't
know to to me it seems like the whole place argument is all.
(19:50):
And this is something that me and you have always kind of
differed on. The whole place argument seems
just an emotional gotcha. I don't know, I'm not see, I
feel differently on that becauseso like what's the longest that
you think it's reasonable to keep a dog on place?
I mean, what's the longest that I think is reasonable or what's
the longest I've had a dog on place?
(20:11):
I guess both. I mean like I've had a dog on
place, I don't know, like 2 hours, 2.
What's the longest reasonable? In theory, if we're writing all
of this down on paper, the reasonable amount of place on a
comfy bed is the same amount of time that I would leave a dog in
a crate because they're doing the exact same thing.
It's containment. If anything, you could argue
(20:33):
that one's more comfortable thanthe other, which would be place
command because there's it's nota rigid bottom right.
So again, the to me if he had his dog on place the entire time
because otherwise he would have his dog in a crate the entire
time, it seems like the exact same thing.
But that seems like. I don't know.
(20:55):
I think people argue with the fact that he's home, right.
Does that does that make a difference?
I mean, to me, I just don't get it.
So if you said like why would the dog need to be on place for
hours upon hours? So if he he's home, so why can't
the dog? He's not a puppy, why can't he
be free? And if you say, well, if he's
out of sight, he can't see if he's getting into something, why
(21:17):
not shut the door to your room? Presumably it is.
I can't imagine he's streaming in a room with open doors for
sound quality issues and then echoes if the door.
Let's say there is no door and he can't do that, put a gate up.
I I don't understand if you're there 7 to 8 hours a day, why
would you? I just don't understand why you
would need to make your dog lay down on place.
I can't wrap my head around it and you know what you know I'm
(21:39):
coming at this room. Not a huge fan of the place
command, but I do like it for certain scenarios.
I like it. Doorbell rings and the owner can
now say place. Two dogs about to fight, you
tell them place they run the opposite sides.
You want to do a down stay with a, you know, Dr. E dog and you
needed to chill out. You know, each evening or when
the kids get home from school. I can, you know, kind of get
(22:00):
that but like 7 hours while you stream.
I just don't understand why the dog can't just do what it wants.
What if it would bark out of thewindow?
Disrupt his cash. Flow.
Just shock it. That's what he's already doing.
He's like, yeah, she caught her nail over there on something.
That tricky dog. Oh, I think she she tripped.
(22:23):
That's why she's screaming rightnow.
I don't I just fixed that then Idon't know.
I just don't get the the whole leave the dog in place all day
thing, but I'm also coming at this.
I don't. That was why my I had that
question. How long is this dog in place?
And, and like I said, I've seen plenty of footage where the dog
is nowhere even in frame becausethat's been a major criticism of
(22:44):
him. Is shock callers equals abuse
Accountability for people is good, but accountability for
dogs is bad Didn't didn't rush in an emotional panic to check
his dog and then place for too long.
Those seem to be the four criticisms of Collar Gate here.
Yeah, and if we break it out of let's say he corrected the dog
(23:05):
on a me collar because we both feel that way.
Vloss, do you feel that way? I mean, from watching the video,
it certainly looks like the dog is corrected to Nelson's point,
whether it was shock or it reacted to stem or or to vibrate
I should say, but it certainly looks like he did something and
the dog reacted to it so. Definitely we're in agreement
there. I feel strongly it had to be
(23:25):
stem. I just vibration, I think with a
trained dog could not do that. So let's say it was stem.
My first thought is the fact of the dog yelped does not mean
he's abusive. So I would absolve him of that.
Just you can't say he's abusive just because the dog yelped and
Tom talked a little bit. I just watched like the intro of
his video, but talked a little bit about that.
(23:47):
Like sometimes they Yelp and that's not the goal.
So you obviously if the dog's yelping consistently, the
collar's too high and it should be turned down.
But like we I'd said earlier, fit could have been different
than normal collar. Could he set higher than normal
for some reason? Who knows?
But the fact the dog yelled to me doesn't mean he's a bad
person. The fact that he didn't react
(24:09):
also doesn't mean he's a bad person.
Because to me, if he didn't react, he and he knows why, then
he knows the dog's not hurt. Sure, if the collar's just a
little bit tighter, the dog probably has a known history of
when the E collar's on a little snugger or whatever to vocalize
like that. So the fact that the dog did it
and he didn't react, I don't think it's a very big deal
(24:29):
because he knew why the dog did it.
He didn't think the dog was hurt.
He didn't think the dog caught his nail, at least in my, my
take on the situation. So the fact that he didn't
react, I don't think seems like a big deal.
I think his anger in like attitude towards the dog seems
like a big deal. He seems really mad, like just,
and I would encourage anyone who's hasn't watched it, if
you're intrigued to watch it andsee what I see.
(24:51):
Like he looks legitimately angry.
He doesn't look dispassionate, he doesn't like let's say you
were using the E collar and the dog broke place.
I think it should look more likeno as you push the button if
that's how you're training and then place.
No. I would agree with you
completely. I feel like the anger is the
thing that I have the biggest issue with in the video.
(25:13):
But I don't know much about thisindividual, right?
From my understanding of what he's become famous for, he's
become famous for being loud andobnoxious and sort of a a jerk,
right? So to me, the fact that he
reacts to his dog that way isn'tall that surprising.
And then his fans like him for being loud and a jerk and
(25:36):
obnoxious. Obnoxious, right?
So I guess like, I don't know, it just, it seems weird to me to
get all worked up when that's the person it seems like he is.
And I don't like him as a personbased off of what I heard there,
right? But I wouldn't have been
listening to him in the first place.
So. You got a thought, Nelson by.
I do have a thought. One of the reasons why I like E
(25:58):
collar training for clients is Ioften tell them that it is a
cleaner correction than a tug ona prong collar or a regular
collar or even a harness, right?And what I mean by cleaner
correction, meaning that it's much more consistent and it
doesn't take your emotions into play when you correct a dog.
(26:22):
And that's hugely beneficial to me and other clients.
That means you could have a softer client correct in a way
that's significant to a tougher dog.
That also means that you could have a tougher person correct in
a proper way for a softer dog because the stimulation is
consistent, a clean correction. That would be my argument to the
(26:45):
point that you guys have, which is because he's frustrated,
because he's angry. I'm frustrated right now that I
got to defend this guy because he's frustrated and because he's
angry. That doesn't necessarily mean
that he picked up the remote, cranked it up and hit the button
in an in like some kind of wild type of situation and merely the
fact that he hit the button. Covey said this already.
(27:06):
I think the bigger thing is thathe's not owning that part of it,
right? He's not owning I.
Agree. That's my huge criticism is the
fact that he's lying. Well, but on top of that, so
like if this was one of our trainers, I'd be pissed and like
and not pissed like fire them orscream at them, but I would walk
them through what I see there isfrustration that's not
(27:29):
warranted. So like, no one's perfect,
right? So if your dog is running
through the house, your kids areplaying and the dog jumps up and
scratches one of your kids and you're frustrated and you yell
no, you run over, then you're like get off or whatever, right?
And then you think back and you're like, OK, maybe I was a
little too, too over the top that time.
(27:50):
I should have been maybe a little more chill.
That is so much different than this dog just simply stood up
from the place command like picture when you have a dog like
in a stay commands. If I had a dog here right now
and I often have my board and trains in here like when I'm on
calls and they'll be in a stay and they got up, my response
would be like, hey, no down staybecause of what they did, right?
(28:15):
They stood up calmly and I know a calm voice is going to get
them back to their down stay. Now not to say I don't ever use
a stern voice. If they broke the down stay till
I charge and rush through a gatewhile another dog was eating to
try to steal their food. I'm not going to say like no
buddy, don't, don't run through the gate and steal food.
Right? I'm going to be a lot sterner,
but you would watch it. I'm like, well that was
(28:36):
warranted. You needed that sternness to
control them, but here you didn't.
So that's what I find so strangeis the amount of kind of
animosity and anger from the dogjust simply standing up.
I don't understand why you can'tjust say no, hey.
Point of clarification, got off of the bed, not standing up.
(28:56):
I don't think he corrected the dog for standing.
He got he corrected the dog for breaking place.
Yeah, maybe I explained it wrong, like I saw the dog get
up. So yeah, getting good
clarification for listeners, butmy thought would be that's the
same as breaking a down stay in the house.
And if the dog broke a down stayand just stood up and took a
step, I can't imagine having that level of anger and
(29:19):
frustration versus just telling him to do it again.
So I agree with you as a dog trainer and someone who is, you
know, handy with dogs, I would agree that, you know, kind of
blowing up or whatever would be out of hand.
So that's not to say I haven't seen clients do it.
You know, people who are frustrated that their dogs
(29:40):
aren't doing perfect like they were expecting and are
frustrated the fact that there'sextra work to be done or, or
work that they didn't expect to have to be done.
Hey, before we get off leash, weactually need to work on leash
with, you know, distraction, whatever, right?
All I'm saying is that there arenormal people.
Normal in the in the sense that they're not dog trainers who get
frustrated working with their dog.
(30:02):
But I think the point is still that then afterwards, to be able
to look back on the situation, admit that you were overly
worked up about something that you shouldn't have been, and
just own that right to be like, yeah, I overreacted.
I shouldn't have. I shouldn't have been that angry
at my dog for taking a step off of its cock.
I agree 1000% with that. And I agree wholeheartedly with
(30:26):
the fact that again, my biggest criticism is the fact that he's
lying and trying to, you know, like, I don't know, dodge
accountability with the fact that he corrected his dog.
He should absolutely say, hey, Iwas angry.
I corrected my dog on an E collar.
This is something that the dog is, you know, trained for.
(30:48):
But you know, whatever, I was angrier than I should have been
in that situation. The problem I have is the fact
that he's trying to come up withdifferent lines, right?
Like, oh, it was his toe, it wasthis, it was that.
It's a vibrate only collar. You know all that stuff.
But I don't know. All I'm saying is that I've seen
many normal people, again normalbeing not dog trainers, get
(31:12):
frustrated with their dogs. The lying part, I agree 1000%
with you guys is that that is the big crime here.
That is, the problem that I havein this situation with him is
the fact that as soon as there'sany pushback at all whatsoever,
his response is to dodge and deflect instead of being honest,
(31:33):
and I find that more despicable.My overall thought is I think
similar to that and I think it'sjust that the issue.
I mean obviously I don't think you should lie about the E
collar, but to be honest I get it like you shouldn't.
But he's got fans and people wholike if he's lied about it for a
while or said he hasn't used oneto now come clean and say he's
(31:53):
using 1 is going to create. So like, I don't think you
should lie. I'm not I'm not advocating to
lie, but I I get it. What I don't get is not coming
clean about like, hey, watching that, I kind of feel like a
shithead. I was kind of mean to my dog,
even if it wasn't the Yelp. Like to me, the once again, just
the attitude. And I'm not holding myself out
(32:14):
to be perfect. Like if you had a video of my
entire life, have I ever overreacted with my kids and
been like, more unhappy than I should have been?
Yeah, of course. Right.
As like, I don't think anyone can say I've never been angrier
at my spouse than I should have been or my kids or my best
friend or whatever. Like, we're humans.
We obviously make mistakes, so Idon't even hold that against
(32:36):
them. I would I, and I don't think
this will come of this, but whatI don't like, I don't want
people to watch that and think like that's a good way to
interact with your dog. I would want people to watch it
and say, hey, that's that's a mistake, right?
That's a training mistake. That's a lifestyle mistake.
We should try to fix that and weshould.
The only time that level of anger, in my opinion, is
(32:57):
warranted to a dog is when they've done something pretty
bad and you want them to know like that was really, really bad
and you should never do that again.
I think that that's a really good take on the situation,
right? And and something that we
advocate all the time. What we tell, or at least you
know, what I've told, told a lotof clients and cover you, I've
heard you say 1,000,000 times isthe fact that, you know, if
(33:18):
you're angry and frustrated, it's not a good time to train
dogs. All right, It's, it's better to
put them up somewhere where theycan relax.
You can relax and then get back to a session when both of you
guys are level, you know, clear headed, level headed, whatever
the case may be. And it's to prevent situations
just like this, right where you're where you're already
frustrated and then your dog does something minor and then
(33:39):
you overreact because of it. And so I mean, I got I think
that that's a really, really good point.
And that would probably be the the best advice that you could
give this guy would be if you'reangry, leave your dog out of it.
All right. And just, you know, let her, let
her go do I don't know, whateverelse, something else.
And again, I, I certainly agree with that part that my biggest
(34:03):
issue with this whole thing is the, the lying, you know,
portion. Yeah, and I think we're still
slightly different. I don't like the anger.
I can I can absolve him of the lion a little bit easier.
The anger is the part of it I don't like either.
But I I, I do go back to though,and again, I'll preface it
again, I don't. I've never listened to much that
(34:25):
this guy has done. So I don't know, isn't it?
Isn't that his shtick? Being angry, those.
Things. So yeah.
I mean, wild and emotional, yeah.
Well, and just to be clear to anyone listening, I'm not
advocating for not ever being really stern with a dog or
showing the dog you're like extreme displeasure.
(34:45):
It's but it should be thought out with a plan and be
appropriate. So there are times where like I
tell a client like you need to be way harder in this scenario
and your dog needs to know how big of a deal this is.
But these are like more life anddeath type scenarios.
Not the dog got out of the placecommand.
If I saw that out of one of my clients for like breaking a
(35:07):
stay, I would have a long conversation with him.
Like you cannot do that. But if I saw that out of like, I
don't know, you called the dog and he got halfway to you and
then he raced to the window barking and the dog's pretty
good at come and these you've done this for months.
And I saw that level of frustration.
I feel a lot different. Yeah, I also think that what I'm
(35:30):
assuming is kind of more along the lines of what Vloss is
saying here is the fact that he is kind of always half cocked,
right? Or at the very least that he was
more frustrated and that his personality lends to that.
And the dog just so happened to break place at that moment when
he was already upset, and not the fact that because the dog
(35:51):
broke place, that is why he was at that level of anger.
So you know, a lifestyle change like you were talking about
makes way more sense than necessarily a training tweak.
I feel like when you say it, it sounds like you're defending.
And what I'm saying is people shouldn't be surprised by him
being like that because that's who it seems like he is.
(36:12):
I'm not defending him as far as you are.
Being. Right, like he should.
He should work on his again. You should always work on being
emotional. 10 minutes ago you were like, I have to defend this
guy. I think that was your exact
phrase. Because again, I also have a
problem with people being emotional in in in the opposite
way. Again, there's there's two
(36:33):
wrongs here and being emotional is not the answer to either.
One overall, I don't know this guy.
I've never even heard of him until this video, so I don't
have preconceived notions. But if his gimmick is to be
angry all the time, that sounds like a really shitty life to be
watching stuff and streaming forseven or eight hours, and you've
got to be agitated that whole time.
Now I kind of want to watch him a little bit to see how agitated
(36:56):
he is. For context, not for political
points, but for context, he regularly calls for the murder
of conservatives, of conservative Americans.
Like he was talking about a couple of weeks ago that you
should be spilling their guts onthe floor in the streets and
that the streets to run red with, with conservative blood,
(37:17):
with Republicans blood. Like when you start to hear all
of that kind of stuff, it's liketo have lost his point of like,
you shouldn't be surprised of the fact that he was angry and
then acted angrily. Right, That's my exact point.
And again, I, I didn't know any of that, right?
Like that's all new information to me.
But again, if he's going to talklike that about people, of
course he probably feels the same about animals, right?
(37:40):
Oh, you think he wants to kill conservative dogs?
What do you think is the most conservative dog breed?
I was just thinking that and theonly thing that makes sense to
me is like the American Eskimo dog, and only because it has
like America in the name, no. That wouldn't be the most
conservative dog. Would have built like a a la
(38:02):
paha blue blooded bulldog. I mean like how many dogs are
actually coming from America? You know what I mean?
I. Don't think that part of it
matters. It's more of their mindset, I'd
say. I don't know why, but the the
dog that I would pick is a dobe.And maybe it's because earlier
today Covey was talking about a Doberman and it's just in my
head. But that's the dog I would pick
for conservative, for conservatives.
(38:23):
On that note, I've got to go fairly soon to go meet that
Doberman. Yeah, I don't know what I would
say, but Dobes have gotten pretty kind of trendy.
In a conservative way or a non conservative way?
Not conservative way like in thecity.
Young, trendy millennials like Dobes?
Well, I think. You both need to.
(38:44):
I think you both need to pick a dog breed for this.
Now, since I did, I don't know why I think you need to pick 1,
and I think Nelson needs to comeup with one that isn't just
named after America. German Shepherd there's to me
that like that's just what comesto mind is.
I'm going. Yeah, I got a homestead within a
German Shepherd that that watch.I don't see that.
(39:05):
Very. I don't see that.
GSP. I don't know man, I think even
like a blue tick coonhound seemsmore conservative than a GSP.
But AGSP is owned by people thathunt birds who are way more
likely to be conservative. But now I feel like it's getting
confusing of are the owners the conservative ones or the dog?
(39:25):
I was trying to think of like the dog is the conservative 1,
not the. Nerves.
I don't know how to. I did not take the eyes.
That's what I. Was trying to figure out like
the dog is the conservative. I don't know how.
For sure. Jim Shepard.
That might have to be absolutelygood.
OK, well, maybe we should do it,because I don't even know where
(39:46):
we'd start. I guess we'd have to come up
with the criteria for what a conservative American is and
then apply that to animals somehow.
Well, without fighting in the comments, anyone who's
listening, drop a comment on what do you think is the most
conservative or liberal dog breed based upon either the
dog's personality or the owner'spersonality.
(40:07):
That's your call. It doesn't doesn't really
matter. All right, well, good episode.
Thanks for bringing this, Nelson.
Anyone who has questions drop a comment and we will link in the
bio the videos we watch so you can see them.
Oh, there you go. Yeah.
All right, no bio. I don't know why I said bio
comments bio no in the video description.
Nice. OK, I'm just get I'll cut that
(40:28):
so I sound super smart, but I'llput a robot voice link in the
description. Description.
All right. Bye everybody.
I'll see you guys. Day press play and let's begin.
(40:50):
Welcome to the pack. You are officially in.
Treats. Delicious.
Shaping the game. Mark, you're right.
It's never the same. Big dogs, small dogs, every
kind. If you love canines, TuneIn,
rewind, laugh and learn. Level up your game.
Suburban canine, remember the name.
Sit, stay, press play. Let's begin.
Welcome to the pack you are officially in.
(41:12):
Sit, stay, press play. Let's begin.
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