Is Obedience Important?

In this episode of Balanced Training with Suburban K9, the hosts discuss the significance of obedience in dog training, exploring various perspectives on its importance and application. They delve into how obedience commands can serve as tools for managing behavior, building relationships, and addressing issues like food aggression and resource guarding.

The conversation emphasizes the need for tailored approaches based on individual dog temperaments and the role of trainers in guiding clients through effective training methods. In this conversation, the hosts discuss various topics related to dog training, including the importance of obedience commands in addressing issues like resource guarding, the changing role of dogs in modern society, and the significance of shared language between trainers and clients.

Takeaways

• Obedience only matters if you do it in the right manner.
• A well-trained dog is one that I don't have to talk to.
• Obedience commands are important for building a relationship.
• You can raise a dog with just the come command.
• Teaching commands isn't going to fix my problem.
• Obedience should be creating the behavior you want.
• Choose when you want to work.

• Obedience commands give you a common language with the dog.
• You can do a lot with energy and tone. Obedience commands are crucial for addressing resource guarding.
• Many people treat their dogs as surrogate children, leading to behavioral issues.
• Training should focus on building a shared language between the trainer and the dog owner.
• Resource guarding can be managed effectively with proper obedience training.
• The role of dogs in society has changed, with many being overly pampered.
• It's important to have control over your dog in various situations, including public spaces.
• Training should not just focus on tricks but on enforceable commands.
• Dogs need structure and boundaries to thrive in modern households.

• Understanding the difference between obedience commands and tricks is essential for effective training.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to balance training withsuburban K9.
Is Nelson frozen? Were you you were just frozen?
Did you hear my intro? I did.
I said welcome to balance training with suburban K9 for
the record. Let's just keep face frozen.
He wasn't actually frozen. Oh, you just.
Weren't moving but I don't know,do I not?
I feel like I move a lot. Welcome to Balance training with

(00:23):
suburban K9. We are live on the air.
This is a huge day. Nelson is leading us in a
spirited discussion. I'm going to try to talk like AI
for the rest of the day. Nelson LED us in a spirited
discussion. Where Vloss I can't talk like AI
am done with that. Well, if you want to talk like

(00:46):
AI, you just have to lie to me about everything that you do.
That's true. Dang AI is the but it's such a
nice liar. It's like, yes, I did that.
It's super good at it, like it reassures you.
It makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside until you learn
that it's all lies. It's all lies.
Darn. All right, take 3.

(01:06):
Welcome to balance training withsuburban canine.
Just in case. What if we don't like the first
two intros where Nelson was frozen and then AI?
You never know, you got to keep options I think.
We keep all three of them. I like all of it.
I could try 1/4 and we could just make it in a whole episode
of practicing our intros. All right Nelson, lead us off.

(01:29):
What is you cooked up something today.
This is the. 1st that I am hearing that I am leading this
episode just so everybody is aware.
So, you know, blindsided a little bit, but today we're
talking about anxiety, right? Wait, what?
Wait, yeah. What are we not?
Which one are we talking about? I saw on the agenda you had

(01:52):
added, is obedience important? That was.
I did. Well, I did add that one
actually. Yes, no, you're right.
My bad. So we are going to need a fourth
take. Welcome to Balance Training with
Suburban Canine. Today we are talking about is
obedience important? And Nelson may or may not be

(02:13):
leading it. I may or may not be leading this
one. Yes, correct.
You know, my thought was this was your idea, so I didn't want
to steer it in a different direction.
And then afterwards find out we didn't go the way you thought.
So what? What do you want to?
What do you want to talk about here?
There's so much we could talk about.
Where Where would you like to see this episode go?
There is a lot of different waysto take this and I guess my big

(02:36):
thing was clearing the air a little bit.
So I I hear a lot from clients either in in a negative
connotation and a positive connotation.
And one of the big things that Ihear all the time is either my
dog, you know, doesn't know any of its obedience commands, but I
kind of like that. I don't yeah, I don't need a

(02:57):
military dog. Is is a common one that I hear
all the time. And which is kind of crazy to me
that just knowing your obediencecommands kind of equals a
military dog. But whatever, the other thing
is, you know, when we have some dogs that are really, really
pushy, they're, you know, maybe the more dominant dogs, just for

(03:19):
whatever reason, they don't haveenough respect for the owner or
the family at large. One of the things that we hear
all the time is, you know, but they know all their obedience
commands. And so I don't understand why
we're having behavioral issues even though they know that.
And it's, it's interesting because a lot of the times
that's where I would start anyway.

(03:40):
So, you know, it's, it's kind offun to say, hey, obedience
doesn't actually matter. Even though on a first house
call, it's one of the first things that I start talking
about is, hey, we need a baseline of obedience commands
so that we can work with the dogand start fixing behavioral
issues. So I guess I'll ask you, Matt,

(04:02):
does obedience commands actuallymatter?
Which Matt, me or Bloss? Oh, good call.
I guess we'll go with Covey first.
You know, I've told so many clients over the years that
obedience only matters if you doit in the right manner and you
do it. Oh, hey, hey, hey, hey, get that

(04:22):
back on camera. We haven't plugged your energy
drinks in a while. Is it the watermelon?
This is cherry limeade. Is that discontinued?
Did you get that from the dollarstore?
No, this is this is one of the only ones that are still in
production that I that I'll drink.
Cool. I don't know if you know
anything about Mexicans, but if there's lime made in it, I'm
buying that. Is that a pretty common thing?

(04:46):
Mexican like lime made. As far as I know, right growing
up we had lime made a lot and everybody would talk about who
made the better batch and who wouldn't.
Oh so. So like instead of lemonade
you'd make limeade? Right.
Mm hmm. Wow, tell me more about this.
Like from scratch, like with limes?

(05:06):
Or are you talking like from a packet?
I don't think I've ever is it popular enough to do from a
packet. I don't know if they make a
packet. Version you need to tell us I.
Don't know. So everything that I know is
from a from scratch, right. You kind of put the sugar in the
water, you make your syrup, and then you juice as many limes as

(05:27):
you possibly can. And usually you got all the Pope
floating around. And I don't know, some people
seem to not like that with orange juice.
But I don't know, man. Kind of adds to the drink, I
think. Well, I made.
Well, I made. How's yours compared to Sonic's?
Because Sonic's about the only place I've ever even really
heard of Limeade before. I don't know.

(05:48):
I've never I've, I've not that. I've never gone to Sonic, but
I've never had their limeade. It's been some years since I've
gone there. You know who makes a really good
one is like Simply Limeade? So like, you know, they have
like Simply Orange, Simply Lemonade.
They have a lime made one and that one's actually really good
too. Because it's just simply limes
and water and sugar. That's right, it's everything

(06:10):
that you need. Well, I don't know how we Segway
back from limeade, how we tie them into dog training.
You know, limes are, they're a very acidic fruit.
And obedience. I'm always telling clients
obedience. It's very acidic as well.
It's very acidic. Yeah, it's very acidic.
You know, back to your question,I I do tell clients a lot that

(06:33):
obedience, it only matters if you do it in the right way.
So you could do it in the wrong way and it adds no value or in
theory, could even make the problems worse.
I shouldn't say in theory, like in practice it sometimes does,
but when you do it the right way, it can help a lot.
But then I'll also say like you could raise a dog by only
teaching them the come command. That could be the literally the

(06:54):
only command they know when theycould be an incredible dog.
If you're doing all the other stuff well.
But you know, when you have all these issues and resource
guarding and leash reactivity and all these other things you
want to fix or hyperactivity, then obedience can come in
really useful. So I think I'm given all whole
it depends answer. I agree though, I mean that's

(07:16):
something similar to what I would tell people.
What are you thinking? Bluffs?
Well, I would just throw out there that it is important and I
get where you say it depends, but I'm going to say it's
important period. Like no matter what, to me it is
important. How you do it is certainly
something that then determines how important it ends up being.
I guess to me, the way that you've both talked about it so

(07:39):
far opens up another question that I'd like to ask.
So as a dog trainer and going into a new client's house, would
you rather the dog know no obedience whatsoever, or know
all their obedience commands buthad them be trained on them as a
trick as opposed to a command? So that's a really, really good

(08:04):
question because like two thingscome to mind to two kind of
scenarios, right? And one is an overactive, highly
anxious German Shepherd. And I, I don't, I can feel like
I would have just preferred themnot to work on it at all so that
we had something to work on together and not have a super

(08:28):
excitable connotation to the obedience commands, Right.
So a lot of the times you'll seelike, oh, they know all their
tricks and they always label it as a trick and not an obedience
commands and they'll pull out treats.
The dog gets super jacked up, super excited, you know, bug
eyed and everything. In which case I wish they just
kind of didn't work on it and wecould have done it all together.

(08:52):
But then I also think of like a fat Beagle, right, that really
doesn't doesn't want to do anything except be a nuisance
Barker and steal stuff. And I'm like, man, at the very
least, you know, a recall or a sit or a down could have really
helped here, you know, and now we have to kind of go through

(09:13):
the motions of getting this lazier dog and I'll say lazy.
You're not lazy. But you know, compared to a
juiced up German Shepherd, you know, they're, they look pretty
lazy. And I would be like, man, this
would be so much easier if you guys taught them the obedience
commands. So Nelson's answer is depends on
the dog. Covey, are you going to go with

(09:33):
a 1/2 and half answer too? I am, but I'm going to say it
depends on the client just to mix things up and what honestly.
What I do think though, is it's harder to teach, to reteach the
obedience to the dog in a, in a new, a new fashion or new manner
is not that hard. But sometimes it's hard to get a
client to get rid of their old habits.

(09:55):
And we all, you know, we have all had those clients who come
to us with the dog. They've been in training for six
months. Nothing's gotten better.
The dogs learned a series of tricks, but they've had it
drilled into their head for the last six months.
The client, here's how you do this, here's how you do this,
and then we come in and we're like, do everything basically
the exact opposite of what you've been told.
And even when the client wants to listen, it's hard for them to

(10:18):
get rid of those old habits. So that's what I really makes it
harder for me. Like in a board and train, you
get a dog who knows everything. It's been taught kind of in the
wrong way for that dog. I'd say it doesn't.
It's really easy to overcome that.
But in house calls, there's a lot of challenges involved.
I think there's a lot to that too, for sure that you know,
they'll try it our way, quote UNquote our way, right, And

(10:42):
they'll they'll ask the dog to sit and maybe they tug, maybe
they don't. They'll definitely say no it you
know, the dog doesn't really respond.
And then they'll certainly fall back to a treat and be like,
well, the only way I can get himto do it is is with this treat.
So I'll give a straightforward answer to my own question here

(11:02):
as well. To me, I would always rather the
dog not know any obedience as opposed to have been taught the
obedience as a trick. And it's you know, it's I like
Covey's reasoning of the client is always hard to get doing
something different. I also like Nelsons of talking
about the dog. Mines more about the dog than

(11:23):
the client, but for slightly a different reason.
I feel like working on those obedience commands is so
important to forming a relationship with the dog.
And I feel like when you're teaching them something that
they've never worked on before, it's really sort of a
cornerstone in building that relationship together.
So to me that's why I would always prefer to come in clean
slate dog not knowing the obedience commands at all.

(11:47):
Yeah. And that's, I think the biggest
highlight or the real answer to is obedience commands.
Are obedience commands important, which is they're
important for building a relationship, right?
And often times what I'll tell people is the actual commands,
except for come are kind of hit or miss.

(12:08):
And you know, very, very likely you're not actually going to use
them in practice until you know a certain type of situation.
However, it gives you a common goal and a common language with
the dog to be able to work on everything else, right?
So not just a way to be able to calm the dogs down, which is

(12:29):
huge, but more than anything you, you really start to see
where dogs start to anticipate certain things as well.
As I always say, like they don'tunderstand English, but they'll
understand what you're saying even if they haven't necessarily
learned those words and they're just learning how to read you,
right. So to me, I think that that's

(12:51):
the most important part about obedience commands.
So if that's the most important part, we're 10 minutes in.
Did I solve it? Are we done?
No. No, just a quick no.
Just I saw it I. Thought I did it.
I thought I gave the answer and we're done.
I like how you ask questions andyou set yourself up for your
own. Like just easy, easy swing and a

(13:13):
hit a home run. I think I'm going to try that.
I just am going to pose this question.
I mean, what do you guys think? If you had to guess, the land
area of the United States is in square miles or you can include
water if you want. You know what, I'll just, I'll
take a stab at it myself just for fun.
I I would guess like 3,531,905 square miles just to toss a

(13:36):
number out there. Just off the Dome, yeah.
Just that sounds that sounds pretty good to me.
Just I'm just a guess, maybe, Maybe I'm exactly on, who knows.
Who knows? Question.
Came up and I answered it. Yeah, but not only did I answer
my own question, according to Nelson, I answered the entire
podcast's question like like a pro.

(13:58):
So. It was a foundational answer.
I will not take that away from you.
Are we done, though? No, not at all.
I've juiced up to start talking.So, you know, we're running this
whole podcast, even if we did nothing.
Where do we go from here? You do you have questions?
You want me to ask a question? I do have questions for either
one of you guys. I would say what is the wrong

(14:21):
way of doing obedience commands?Because, you know, we've, we've
said that there's a right way and a wrong way, but neither of
you have actually elaborated on that.
That was that was me buzzing in.I couldn't find a a button on
this computer to do that. It wasn't my question so it's
not a layup so I don't want to take it.

(14:46):
That's a good question, Nelson. What I would say is the right
method depends on the dog and I'll give 2 clear, you know,
different answers like you know,that are very, very different
from each other. So calm dog.
Well, I shouldn't say calm, nervous dog that's terrified.
The right way to be doing obedience would be with a lot of

(15:07):
excitement. Obedience should be fun and to
get them focused on you. So I would be using, you know,
maybe lots of treats. If I could do it with praise and
the dog like that, I would go with praise instead.
But if the dog's that scared, probably treats or food of some
sort sort, lots of excitement, just trying to build him up.
And on the other side of the spectrum that that juiced up, to

(15:27):
use your phrase, Nelson German Shepherd, I am not going to be,
you know, this might be weird for some of our listeners that
if you watch a lot of YouTube videos, it seems like most
YouTube trainers use the methodsthey use in dog sports.
So they've got this shepherd andit's like a focused heel.
The dog's at their side. It's, you know, beautiful dogs

(15:48):
really engaged. But that's obviously an exciting
way to train. And that's of course you 3 or
you 2 know that's not what we do.
I would be focusing on calming that dog down.
So probably no treats at all. And that doesn't mean no
positive reinforcement. You know, our reinforcement
would be praise, but nice and calm with the idea that when I
clip a leash on, I don't want that shepherd stressed, winding.

(16:10):
I don't want him ready to work when his leash goes on.
I want him calm, not juiced up, ready to go.
I think it's important to point out though, that most dogs are
going to fall into that second category as well.
So to me, if you had to like ballpark a number, it's like 80%
of dogs are falling into the second category and only 20 or

(16:32):
less is falling into the first one.
I feel like that's fair. I do feel like that number is
growing, but I, I think that that would be interesting on a
different podcast, right? The number of nervous dogs that
we're seeing, especially after COVID and everything.
And I feel like that number is growing, but the fact that

(16:53):
there's going to be way more excitable dogs that we deal with
rather than nervous dogs, I think it's absolutely correct.
And are you talking about Even so, like new puppies post COVID
dogs? Or are you talking about just
because of COVID dogs? I'm going to go with the first

(17:14):
one, new puppies post COVID dogsand I think that the Breeders
obviously were likely COVID dogsat this point, right?
We're five years later and that I think probably plays a role.
And then kind of like how I think there was a huge shift in

(17:35):
in dog owners, you know, as far as COVID goes.
And a lot of, I don't know, how do I put this in a nice way, A
lot of leaning on your dog emotionally that is not
necessarily good for more nervous dogs or more nervous
puppies. So.
I feel like this is a almost like a scandalous level thought.

(17:58):
How are we going to prove or notprove what you're saying?
I'm so intrigued by it. I mean, that would be
interesting. Give me the research funds and I
will go and search out a couple of breeders and we'll see what
the Breeders look like and what the puppies come out like.
So are you saying, Nelson, you feel like the breeding stock,

(18:20):
like the actual breeding male and female were not socialized
well during COVID and then that's affecting the puppies
now? Is that what I'm hearing?
I think yes. What's interesting is I was on a
podcast the other day with a lady who breeds border collies,
and one of the things she said was within two generations of

(18:41):
not working, the border collies lose their eye.
You know, like they lose the ability to be a really good
working border collie, which is interesting, right?
I would have thought that you would just, you know, after a
couple of generations, maybe youhave some of them aren't as good
anymore. Your breathing's gotten a little
bit loose and, you know, you don't have the exactly the
behavior. But she said within a couple

(19:02):
generations, you see a marked difference.
And, you know, we've talked, I think about that study before
with the OR not with the wolves,with the fox, where, you know,
after a while, after not many generations, they basically
became domesticated dogs. You know, then their ears went
down and their tails were no longer erect and they looked
like dogs. What's to say that two or three

(19:24):
generations of not socializing dogs wouldn't have a real effect
on how social of a creature theyare?
So basically, how quickly can you de domesticate a dog?
Right. I I think that that's actually
super interesting. It makes Europe seem not so
crazy when it comes to their Dobermans now knowing that in

(19:45):
two generations they could lose everything as far as innate
ability, right? Because like for a lot of
Dobermans, especially in Germany, they will make sure
like your dog has to be able to actually perform the functions
in the sports in order to be kind of greenlit as a, as a
legit breeder. And I don't know, I always kind

(20:07):
of be like, oh man, that seems, you know, more intense,
obviously, especially being American.
But if if two generations is allit takes you know to lose it
all, I I guess that means that starts to make way more sense.
Yeah, that's a lot less than I would have thought.
And I also like, I wouldn't havedone this correlation that you
have to more nervous dogs comingfrom that.

(20:29):
I mean, it, it makes sense, but that thought had never crossed
my mind before. You just said it.
Well, I'm going to get some better answers for us.
I'm doing a podcast in a couple days with someone named Kim
Brophy, if you know of her, and she's an ethologist so she
studies dogs and dogs in the wild.
I'm curious to ask her about theprocess of de domesticating

(20:52):
dogs. How long does it take before we
just screw up thousands of yearsfrom hard work?
That would be super interesting.You got to let me know when that
comes out because that's that's fascinating.
But getting back to the obedience commands, right?
I think, I think understanding that different dogs are going to

(21:14):
react or fare better with different styles of obedience
commands is a good thing to kindof keep in your I, I hear like
training toolbox thrown around all the time, especially when
you, you know, like hear about sport trainers and stuff like
that. They refer to that all the time.

(21:36):
But the fact is, is that there are dogs that are going to
benefit from way more exciting obedience commands.
There are dogs that are going toreact better to just really,
really slow obedience commands, right?
The slower, the better to, to kind of calm them down and, and
work them out mentally a little bit harder.

(21:57):
And then there's there's times where I have to go into this
kind of crazy sit down, stay, come, sit down, stay, come kind
of deal. That's not necessarily the most
exciting. It's not like I have a ton of
treats or anything, but faster pace than I typically would
because I have to be able to, you know, certain some dogs just

(22:18):
start to get a little bit more nervous and not nervous dogs,
but nervous of a situation. And we fall back to obedience
commands quite often. So there is importance there as
well, right? It's not just the fact of you
need respect and you need to be able to kind of exercise some
authority every now and then in the in the least confrontational

(22:40):
way possible, but also having a shared activity that can help
your dog through a situation kind of helps out a ton.
OK. So we're just touching on
something new there, which we haven't touched on yet.
Is obedience has something to fall back on in the future,
right, as opposed to just changing the dog?

(23:02):
What I would say to kind of put a pin in what we were just
talking about. For me, it would be your
obedience should be creating thebehavior you want.
And if you want your dog, they're terrified in it, in
their shell, and you want them more excited, then you should be
creating that behavior. And if you come to me, the dog
who's wild and crazy, and you want me to help him calm, you
want me to help calm him down, then our obedience should be

(23:22):
creating that behavior because otherwise where are we going to
create it? If we don't do it during the
obedience, when are we going to teach that dog to be calm,
Right. But why don't we?
You want to switch gears to talking about using obedience as
as a tool. So regardless of how you teach
it, I mean it should be taught in the right way for that dog,
but what are sometimes you woulduse it as a tool in the future

(23:46):
and that you find it be useful? Yeah, I, I think 1 is just like
I was saying, you know, we especially heel and I'll throw
heel in not just as a calming behavior, but as a command
because we, we teach it like a command.
And so I, I fell back on that all the time, every time a dog

(24:07):
starts to get overstimulated, every time that a dog is just
getting a little pushy, you know, a little pushy for my
liking. Nervous.
How many dogs are scared of garbage day here right in the
big truck is going by or the, you know, garbage cans are
getting rolled in and out. That's a perfect time to kind of
heal around the garbage can until they get used to that and

(24:29):
then heal past the truck to kindof help your dog focus on
something else other than the big scary machine that's going.
But you can do anything there that will help your dog through
that situation without getting it more reactive or more
exciting. So it doesn't have to be healed.

(24:51):
Certainly could become certainlycould be sitting down.
I guess I would avoid doing stayif your dog isn't ready for that
because I could go backwards on you.
But again, kind of a perfect example of 1 obedience commands
in the future after you're already kind of done training.
Still might make a make a big comeback and and help you out in

(25:12):
a pinch. I struggle a little bit with the
opposite thought of that question of how do people see
that obedience wouldn't be helpful.
So like have you let in a littlewhile ago with saying that a dog
could be great for you and the only obedience command it knows
is come, which I get why you would say that, right?

(25:35):
Like dog, the dog could be really well adjusted while
socialized. All of those things in a great
dog for the person. But I struggle to picture how
people could get through just normal everyday situations with
a dog that doesn't know any obedience.
Like I just think of to me, every situation I think of, I
would be using some type of obedience.
Like you go to the store when you're looking and it's

(25:57):
something on the shelf you ask the dog to sit.
If you were getting the mail I'dhave the dog sit or lay down and
stay as I get the mail out of the mailbox.
Right. Like every situation I think of
almost ends up using some type of obedience command with the
dog and I would struggle to livelife without the dog knowing
obedience commands. So what if this dog was by

(26:21):
nature reasonably calm dog and they learned leash pressure and
they learned that it was not allowed to have pressure on the
leash. And when they feel that they
need to get closer to you to getthe leash pressure to release,
so you're checking your mail. Like, why would you want your
dog to sit down if they're not pulling and they're not going
anywhere? Who cares?

(26:42):
And when you're like in the store, if the dog's at your side
and he's, I mean, like, look at service dogs, how many of them,
you know, a lot of dog service dogs are trained to stand quite
a bit. So I'm not saying this is the
route I would send my clients down, right?
And like, I've never sent a client down the route of like,
let's not train your dog. But I think it's worth as dog

(27:02):
trainers thinking it through as a process that we could teach a
dog next to nothing and live with them in the right way and
they could still be an amazing dog.
I'm not going to let them push through doors, going to practice
taking resources away. I'm not going to let them jump
on people, not going to let themmouth people, not going to let
them pull on leash a lot and then come back when called.

(27:23):
And I would think with your own dog as like an adult dog who's
well mannered and well trained, How often do you feel the need
to use obedience commands and. I I feel like my answer is still
a lot like I feel like I use commands all over the place.
OK, so you know how I always look at it is a well trained dog

(27:44):
is one that I don't have to talkto, right?
Just knows the rules and you know, kind of does it on their
own. So with that in mind, I'll play
devil's advocate and say, you know, teaching the commands
isn't going to fix my problem because my dog already isn't

(28:06):
listening. And then that's just going to be
more than my dog isn't going to listen to.
Say that again. So, and I've heard this argument
before in the moment that my dogis being naughty, let's just
say, I don't know, barking out of the window.
It's a hassle to try and do commands or try and work on the

(28:29):
commands because they're alreadynot listening to me.
So then if I try and work on obedience commands, it's it's
not going to work anyways, so why?
Why try and use them? So this is just a client in your

(28:49):
mind saying that, why use the obedience?
Because it'd be too hard, right Then yes, Yep.
And overall what I would say is I guess what I point what I was
saying, my whole view on this isthis is not what I tell a client
to do. I think this is something dog
trainers should be thinking through themselves and it can
influence the way we encourage people to live with their dogs.

(29:12):
It's most people need obedience with their dogs because it's
hard to say. Just live with them in the right
way. Don't let the dog be too wild.
If he is, stop them. We all know how important energy
and tone are, and you can do a lot with energy and tone.
And now, and this is of course, is if you're raising the dog
from the start, not I just rescued this 12 month old

(29:33):
shepherd who guards resources. He's reactive and crazy.
That'd be really hard to fix without obedience as a tool.
But I'm talking about just raising them from the start.
And that, that front window issue.
It's really easy to raise a dog that doesn't bark out the front
window, right? It's harder to fix for a client
when they've let their dog do itfor a year.

(29:53):
But you're raising your own dog and you wanted to not bark out
the out the front window. I don't see obedience needing to
play a role in that for me with my own dog.
And I would think if I agree my dog from barking out the window
verbally then that's a problem. I agree for sure, especially
just because, you know, very often with like with my own

(30:16):
personal dogs, I'm not talking about training dogs, but with my
own personal dogs, sometimes it's hard to get them to bark
right? So like I would agree that a
certain lifestyle will just kindof illicit, you know, dogs that
are more apt to, to just let things go and not really care.
But I, I guess what is the answer you would give a client?

(30:40):
And that said that you, you say your dog or No, no, no, your
client tells you, hey, my dog iscrazy at the door and it's crazy
at the window. My problem is not necessarily
outside and my problem is not obedience commands.
It's this dog is wild. What would be your your response
to a client? So my response in 2010 would

(31:05):
have been working on claiming space and we would have done
that off leash and we would teach the dog off leash in the
house, no commands to leave the front door alone when asked to
back out the foyer to back away from the window.
And what I found and for the record, I'm saying this is in
2010. And what I've found is that
worked really well for some clients who got it and had the

(31:26):
energy, and for the vast majority it was just a shit
show. And it was really hard and like,
just keep at it, buddy. You're going to get it.
And for some people, it's just really hard to get that, but it
did work. I I want to testify the fact
that it did work right. I mean, we had really good
success with that. Yeah.
And so now today if I had a client that I was working with,

(31:48):
I would add, and they said obedience is too hard in that
moment, I would say, but doesn'tthat tell you that the dog is in
a not great state of mind? They're too excited.
So it doesn't like clip a leash on or short tab or whatever.
And if it takes you 3 minutes until you get a good sit, stay
well, that just tells you how worked up they were around that
door or window and what else areyou going to do?

(32:12):
And I would walk them through. There is another option of
claiming space, but if you thinkobedience with a leash is hard
when you try learning that. So I, I just don't see another
better option, right. So I, I would, you know, push
them to do the obedience. And I always tell clients, I
think this is how long it'll take, but I really don't care.
It makes no difference if you said it took me 4 minutes just

(32:34):
to get healed. I never did.
I never even did a sit like, OK,was the dog calm at the end?
And if the answer is yes and like you did it, and next time
it's going to be less than 4 minutes and next time it's going
to be less. And then pretty soon you'll be
able to use a short tab and go through all your commands, and
I'm pretty sure you won't even. Need that answer right.
And the answer is to kind of boil it down to how I would is

(33:00):
yes, it's, it's work now that's going to make your future much
easier. You know, again, working on
those on the obedience commands,whether your dog is super
excited or not, you know, just getting that relationship
squared away like we were talking about is worth the extra
work you have to do now so that you don't have to do it later

(33:21):
because you're you're doing one or the other, right?
Either you don't work on obedience commands and then you
struggle at the front door and you struggle for the next 10
years, or you work on the obedience commands, you work at
the door and maybe you're working for the next, you know,
couple of months, let's say, because you know, it's, it's

(33:41):
clients, not trainers. So, you know, maybe you're
working for the next couple of months and then things are easy
for the rest of the dog's life. You know, I guess choose choose
when you want to work, right? Yeah.
And then the next thing would bewhat's your other option?
Because if the client says I'd rather do this, like let's hear
what your other thought is, and maybe they've got a good one,

(34:05):
but I can't think of anything besides drugging them.
Drugging them. Preventing the situation,
claiming space, so, you know, using body language or obedience
of some sort. How's a boat talking about food
aggression, resource guarding and the power of obedience

(34:28):
there? Do you like that topic, Nelson?
Let's do it. I think that's.
Good Voss, do you like that topic?
Sure. Do you want?
To take a hat during these podcasts.
I do and I like it. I think it looks way better with
the headphones. My bald head against the
headphones is sort of creepy if you ask me.
Just grow some hair. The Abu Garcia.

(34:50):
Had I would if I could, you know.
Have you tried changing your diet?
A lot of fish oil. I can't say that I have.
I'm not sure if that helps, but it's good to say it's fish.
Oil really supposed to help with?
What is it? That's what I've ever.
Not that I've heard, but it's good for a lot of things.
I feel like people will tell youthese days that if you're bald,

(35:12):
it's a choice and like that there's all sorts of options out
there to not be bald. But I don't, I don't feel like
that's how it all went down. It's.
Like I was there, that's those weren't the options.
Those weren't the choices I made.
I don't know about. I wouldn't be comfortable taking
a drug to regrow hair. I feel like all these drugs

(35:35):
through time, you find out like,well, yeah, I mean, it kills
your liver or does this or does that.
Maybe it causes cancer. I feel like you just if your
hair is done being attached to your head, you just let it be
done being attached to your head.
So I don't know if you guys, butdo you guys remember, do you
guys remember the the company that did Brian Urlacher's hair

(35:57):
restoration? Yeah, Restore I, I remember the
the signs on the highway. Remember they had the three in a
row. So one of the guys, one of the
doctors there was one of our clients actually.
So I worked with him probably like 5 or 6 years ago.
And I told him I wasn't interested at all.
Like it's just not something that appeals to me.

(36:18):
Like I've come to terms with my baldness, right?
But I was like, So what? Like what do you guys do?
Like explain to me the situation?
It was like a four or five step process.
So like surgery, drugs, red light therapy and then something
else too that I don't really remember.
So like, it's a, it is a big thing.
But he said it's very doable, even for somebody as bald as I

(36:41):
am. That seems so crazy, dude.
But you know, like then you see the commercials to get like a
better beard so that I could look like Vloss over here and
like he's still doing the needleroller and everything.
And so like, I don't know what crazy I'm willing to do, right?
Well, I wasn't willing to. Let's start a GoFundMe.
We're going to raise money for Vloss's hair surgery.

(37:03):
So everybody, listeners, please donate.
And he's going to get surgery and drugs and he's just going to
have a full head of hair. I wouldn't.
I wouldn't do it if you paid me.Wouldn't even do it if you paid
me. And the GoFundMe is going to
require you to do it. We can't steal people's money.
So once the money comes in, you are committed to the surgery.

(37:24):
You are committed. You've entered into the
contract. Yikes.
And I fake your signature on company documents all the time.
So I I can I can fake it on this?
I'm not sure you should be saying that on the air.
Don't tell nobody, it's just witty banter.
That's a good defencing court. No, it's just.
Bizar Oh, it's just banter. That is a good defense,

(37:46):
actually. I feel like everybody's going to
be like, oh, that makes sense tome.
Yeah, I banter, Yeah. Yeah.
OK, so food aggression, yes. Who's leading this off?
What did? You say to us, what do you think
about food aggression and obedience commands?

(38:08):
I guess I still just look at it like I had said about everything
else. I can't imagine working on it
without the use of obedience commands.
So like if we go back to the original question, is obedience
commands important to working onresource guarding?
Absolutely. So, you know, foundation or the
first thing to me that I would work on with any resource

(38:29):
guarding situation is healing the dog back and forth past that
resource. And Nelson had mentioned how
heel is absolutely a part of obedience.
So to me that's the first most important command.
And then I would always, after heel is acceptable and the dog
can walk around that thing. I would always use something
like a sit command to make sure that the dog can pay attention

(38:50):
and listen as opposed to just pull and try and get to it as we
come to a stop. Again, once I can do that, then
I'm going to use something like stay so that again, the dog
isn't just rushing up to the thing and I can sort of step
away from it. So to me, all these commands are
going to be extremely important and working on resource
gardening. What else?

(39:11):
What? What more?
What more do you want to hear from that?
I I think in this context, I I think you're absolutely correct.
You cannot reasonably help someone fix this problem without
deep diving into obedience commands and getting them to a
high to a high degree. Do you think you could take a
dog into your home that had to resource garden and fix it with

(39:34):
no commands? Maybe.
But how big? Is the talk. 40 pounds, 40 lbs.
If you would have went 15, I would have said yes.
If you went 1520 I would have said yes.
And when I say no commands, I don't mean like no

(39:55):
communication, obviously, right?We're going to teach loose leash
walking. You need that just to live, to
be able to go outside with the dog.
But no sit, no stay, no down. Could you fix resource guard?
So heel is on and heel official.Heal this one.
Are we talking? Are we talking?
The dog responds to leash pressure like you had said
before but no official heal. Right.

(40:19):
I'm going to say 40 LB dog, you're not going to do a good
job of of fixing that problem. I.
Don't know some type of a I think now that leash pressure is
is on the table, I feel like youknow this is getting doable.
At the very least is doable now where I would have thought it
was impossible now. I mean, so you, you start to use

(40:40):
leash pressure, right? And you're, you're kind of
getting used to, you're getting the dog used to being pulled
away to being walked around. Obviously he lunges you.
You would likely give a tug and then kind of keep walking in the
other direction. And then you start slowly,
slowly start working on claiming, you know, claiming

(41:03):
space and claiming things. I think you're skipping a bunch
of safety steps, But I mean, it's, it's doable.
It's possible. I.
Think a big I think a big part of it though also depends on
what type of dog we're talking about.
Is it super excited crazy all over the place?
Or is it more the calm type of dog that is going to guard
something without being crazy all over the place?

(41:25):
I don't know why and this is probably like a character flaw.
I hear 4050 lbs and I think pit.Just immediately I was I was
picturing a little Red Nose pit.It's a shepherd mix and this is
a choose your own adventure floss.
You know you can. Whether it's calm or excited,

(41:46):
that's up to you. But if it's excited, I'm going
to say I don't. I don't think you can get there.
If it's calm, I think you have abetter chance.
You guys are hot. How calm?
How calm does the dog have to beto equally resource guard and
still be calm? I mean that's pretty
interesting. I guess they just don't care

(42:08):
until you get 6 inches away froma bowl.
Yeah, so here's what I would say.
I would never, and I'm with you,lost what you said when I were
and I'm working. I worked with a client this
morning on resource garden and Iwon't touch resource garden
without doing obedience first with the dog.
I think with our AB, with a client and normal household, I

(42:32):
think it's insane to jump into resource garden before doing
proper obedience training. So 100% in agreement with you.
I do think it's worth thinking about, though, especially for
trainers. How would you go about fixing it
without obedience? Because to me, that does make
you a better trainer and puts a lot more of your thought on how

(42:52):
you're communicating. And like, it kind of goes back
to what you said earlier, Nelson, about even if a dog
doesn't know the word, they knowwhat you're saying.
So when you say come on, bud, let's go, come on, buddy, come
on, boy, let's go. The dog knows what you want from
him. Like walk with me on, you know,
at my side because we've been practicing this before.
So I would think you could fix, well, I know you can fix

(43:13):
resource guarding without obedience.
I'm not saying anyone should. But thinking through that
process I do think is useful because it makes you think a lot
more about claiming space from the dog, communicating with body
language, not hiding from the issue with obedience because
that's one of the problems, right?
When people use obedience too much is they use it to hide from

(43:34):
the issue where it's like, yeah,now your dog, you know, knows a
good down stay and you can just put him in a down stay and have
a bone by it. He won't ever break the down
stay for the bone. I mean, how many dogs have you
gotten for research garden or someone's trained with a trainer
for a long time and all they didwas obedience and they never got
to the the stickier part of the situation of like, how do we

(43:57):
actually take this away? Like, and the answer's like,
well, don't pet him when he's eating.
Like OK, then you did not fix resource garden.
If you can't pet your dog while he's eating, I would say that
this is This issue has not been fixed so.
Or you're just expensive training and all they can do is
place that's that's a pretty common one.
Yep. So I think it's just worth, I
think it's worth thinking through, you know, using the

(44:19):
energy and really focusing on your voice, being able to call
the dog off food, but walk up tohim and buddy, get back back and
shooing him away from the food. And doing all of those things
that don't require a set command.
But that I've never, I've never advocated for a client to do
that. But I do think a trainer should

(44:40):
be able to do that. And not saying to be the easiest
way, but you'd learn a lot abouthow to handle a dog off leash as
a newer trainer if you're tryingto do that and with a client, I,
you know, there's no way I wouldtouch resource garden without
obedience. And what I tell them is if you
just like to me, it's also relationship building.

(45:01):
I show up on day one and you're like, well, this dog bites me
when I take his bone. So if you were to say, OK, Matt,
you just said you could do it off leash, you know, do it, but
that's building a relationship. I still wouldn't start at day
one. I would work on doorways.
I'd be shooing that dog back from everything and I'd be
practicing. I wouldn't consider drop it a
command here like what we're talking about.

(45:22):
I'd be practicing drop it constantly.
I'd get the dog used to backing up, dropping things, listening
to me, you know, wanting to be around me.
You can't do all that in the 1sthouse call.
So when I come in for resource guarding, we're working on heal,
obviously, and then sit and thensit, stay, and then down and
then down, stay and then finallytouching resource guarding.
You know, Lesson 5. So two things there, you know,

(45:45):
one, I, I agree completely that there is no way of safely doing
this and being successful because you and that client also
need a shared language, right, acommon language.
And if we know what a sit is andwe know what a down is and we

(46:07):
know, you know, like, and there's some nuance to that as
well, But it's easier to kind ofexplain that than the nuances of
taking the bowl away from a dog that doesn't know any, any kind
of obedience commands, right? And, and what backing up looks
like or claiming rather there's just the, the safest way is
absolutely to use obedience commands because it also gives

(46:29):
the owners who get nervous in the situation, they start kind
of imparting their own social pressure and stuff like that.
It gives them something to kind of back off to, right, and not
run away and kind of, you know, make the dog better at guarding,
but also without having to push forward.
And that's, that's a huge one. But yeah, when we were talking

(46:52):
about like, could you do it? I, I was not imagining at all
doing it in house calls. I was thinking of like, could I
do it myself? And that's where the benefit
from for a trainer kind of comesin, right?
Just kind of thinking outside the box.
So let's talk shared language. What you said for a second,
because it made me think a lot of this is semantics because the

(47:13):
stuff that I would be doing could easily be be considered
obedience. It's just not what people
consider to be obedience commands because I'd be working
on get back, back, back. Well, how is that not a command,
right? But obedience, people think of a
sit down, stay, come, right? But if I was working this
without those, without those typical obedience commands, I'm

(47:35):
still saying words to the dog that are going to take on
meaning, and I'm going to expectthe dog to listen when I say
that word. So at that point, those are
basically obedience commands. They're just different commands.
I think that that's a fair argument, especially the fact
that you know the title on its face.
You know, our obedience commandsactually important is a semantic

(47:58):
argument, but I mean that's, that goes both ways.
So these extra kind of behaviorsand and things that you're
working on, you'll count as obedience commands.
But a lot of clients think roll over and spin right?
And the stuff like that are alsoobedience commands.

(48:19):
And you know, I, I would say, no, those are, those are tricks.
You know, when, when you, when you blanket statement,
everything is a trick. Like those are tricks.
And one of the big things is I guess just, I'm not willing to
enforce, right? Like I'm not willing to enforce
spin or I'm not willing to enforce roll over if the dog

(48:41):
doesn't do it. I'm like, oh man, that kind of
sucks. And we just kind of keep working
on it where for a sit and for a down, I'm willing to enforce
that, right? That's what brings meaning to
the word. But that goes to the same thing
that you're saying, right? Where claiming space or working
on boundaries or working on those are enforceable.

(49:03):
It's something that we do work on to enforce.
A lot of semantics for sure. A lot of semantics.
Because no question, people don't consider out or drop it in
obedience command or get back. But there's no way I would live
with a dog without teaching themthat.
And so I think my point earlier at the beginning and now with

(49:23):
this food depression stuff is you don't need sit down and
stay. Right.
So I think we could rephrase it.You don't need sit down and stay
to have control over your dog and to work with him properly.
I mean like you train greyhoundsand don't have them sit and that
doesn't ruin everything right? What would?

(49:45):
You say to I don't need to come,I don't need a recall.
I mean, I would just say that's stupid.
Like just I, I wouldn't even sayanything after that.
It's just dumb that that period,you know, you know, obviously we
need to be able to get the dog back and I was, I just can't.
You can't rely on the dog wanting to come back.

(50:07):
You have to work on it and proofit and it's just absolutely
needed. So I can't imagine not teaching
a dog to come. But that's just semantics,
right? I could.
I could just teach the dog to walk with me everywhere that I
go and never say come. Sure, I could get behind that.

(50:27):
I mean, one of my dogs, the the rot Akita lab mix, we didn't do.
I never trained the dog on cum like you would in like normal
training typically, yeah, but she comes and called every time.
But she just, you know, I don't know, stayed close, right.
And I'd call her sometimes and praise her and she, you know,

(50:48):
not a stubborn dog. And but were everything else we
worked on in daily life taught her respect and that she had to
follow rules. So and you could have easily
attached a different word to that.
If I wasn't saying come and it was just get, get over here, get
over here or whatever, then you could say I never trained the
dog come and she is fine. So I think there's definitely
some semantics there. You know, I used let's go all

(51:11):
the time. I used let's go more than come.
You know, come is something thatI, that I train on and we, we
work on with the dogs. But I mean, Let's Go seems to be
way more applicable to my everyday life.
I feel like a lot of clients do end up going through life with
their dog without like a formal come command and do just end up
using like let's go or not the expectation that the dog's

(51:36):
actually gonna come like the obedience command sort of
implies. Right, but the problem is they
can't have their dog off leash in public, ever.
Agreed. All right.
I think a lot of people don't necessarily even see that as a
need where a lot of people sort of just keep their dogs inside
these days. I think that's that's fair.

(51:57):
I don't know, man, that's tough actually.
So I mean, I feel like dogs are in public more than ever, you
know, especially me growing up, I was like, that's just really
wasn't wasn't a thing, even though I would argue that dogs
were probably quote UN quote, more obedient back in the 90s.

(52:17):
They were more exercised and more social.
For sure, for sure that more socialized right because I at
least at my house right, the door was like a open door.
We brought friends over all the freaking time and never even
thought about it. And my dogs were, especially
when I was really young. I mean they were always outside.

(52:39):
So way more exercised, way more socialized and not as.
How do I put this nicely not? Don't put it nicely, just put it
what's running through your head.
Put it however you want. Not freaking spoiled right like
not I idolized we idolize dogs in the worst ways these days and

(53:02):
it's creating most of these problems again.
That's what I that's probably the biggest thing that I mean
when I say you're, you're leaning emotionally on your dog
is you're not wanting to do anything that helps the dog
become more stable and then justdropping all your bullshit on
your dog and expecting that theycan handle.

(53:24):
It well, I would say what you said at the start made me think
about most of the time that I see this, it's young couples
without a baby, without a kid, and they raise the dog to be
their baby or older people that get a dog when their kids have
been out of the house for 10 or 20 years.
And all of a sudden like they'redoing stuff.

(53:45):
And I've seen this with people where they're raising the dog
and it's like their surrogate child and they're treating it
and like they didn't treat dogs like that in the past.
And all of a sudden it's like this is the new baby.
For sure that there's, there's no doubt in my mind.
I mean, hashtag dog mom, you know, like my grandkids have
paws and that kind of stuff. Like you see that everywhere.

(54:10):
I see you driving all the time. And yeah, I mean, we're, we're
idolizing dogs in the worst ways.
Loss is thinking. He is thinking.
It's just an interesting take. Like the comment, we're
idolizing them in the worst ways.
I find to be such a extreme takeon the situation.

(54:31):
I mean, think about how capable dogs are.
They could do a lot of really cool stuff.
And yet the again, like the onesthat are famous or the ones that
get all the views on Instagram or the ones that we, the three
of us kind of encountered the most, are idolized for being
cute even though they act spoiled.

(54:57):
Like Frenchies, is that, is thatwhat you're getting at?
Oh, Frenchies for sure right? But like border collies for
sure. Mini poodles.
Mini poodles are the worst. I said it.
So mini poodles like purebred poodles to those purebreds mini.

(55:18):
Poodles. I don't.
I can't remember the last time Isaw a purebred mini poodle.
I used to see them all the time and they always bite people.
I remember that. And they still.
Do exist to breed doodles? Yeah.
And I think you're right. I mean, I think the.
Only they're one of the raw. They're one of the things you
put in to make a doodle, right? One of the raw materials for a
doodle. Sure, and I think that's the

(55:38):
only reason they still exist, right?
It's kind of like Cocker spaniels.
They only exist to make, you know, mixes and whatnot.
I was going to say mutts, but that seems a little ruder than
it needed to be. Sorry, you were starting to say
something, Nelson. And then I, I threw out my raw
materials stuff. What were you saying?
Do you know? Now I forgot.
So, you know, circling back to obedience, I think we're in

(56:01):
agreement that obedience is obviously we all agree it's
useful. I think I answered this clearly
earlier, but I, I train every single one of my clients dogs on
obedience and you we started to talk a little bit about
something to fall back on and then we got away from that
earlier. And I don't know if we want to

(56:22):
circle back to that, but other examples would be when I give my
clients is like, so you have a kids birthday party and you have
tons of people at the house. How are you going to control
your dog? You know, if they don't have a
great heel command, we'll walk in and we'll be a nightmare
trying to walk him around the party.
I'd rather my dog be off leash, but I if if you can't control

(56:42):
him on leash, you can't control him off leash.
And then if they don't have the most bulletproof down stay ever,
Well, there's no way they're holding a down stay during a
party and then you take him off leash, which is my goal.
I'd want him off leash the wholeparty when I'm, you know,
they're in supervising. But if you can't call them and
they're not great at come, I mean, how are you going to gain
control if something goes down, kids tormenting them, food falls

(57:05):
on the ground, dogs going to investigate it, something
happens, who knows what. You know, you have to have all
those things or your dog's goingto have kind of a crappy life
because you're going to be thereholding them the whole time on
harness, apologizing for your dog jumping on everybody, or
they're going to be locked up. I was going to say, we know that
that first option is not actually happening.
You know, when they are not holding that dog by a harness

(57:28):
and apologizing, they're puttingthat dog up in a bedroom and
then just cleaning up the mess afterwards.
I went to a flag football game the other day, a bunch of kids
playing flag football and I saw a couple dogs, big dogs and
harnesses that were just dragging their owners
everywhere. And they're like, oh, sorry
about that. As the dog drags him up to the
next person and you look and you're like this human and this

(57:50):
dog are going to destroy their body and their posture from all
this pulling. It was crazy.
But it's common. It's common.
Again, you got to choose where you want the work, right?
Are you holding your dog back for the rest of its life?
Or are you going to do 2-3 weeksof really hard work to get that
dog calm and those fun, excitingsituations?

(58:12):
Agreed. And it doesn't even have to be
fun and exciting, right? That's Office.
Can you imagine the average person?
You're taking your dog to the vet without obedience commands
under your belt? Yeah, it's a nightmare if you're
not living with your dog properly.
And like, I shouldn't even say properly, But if you're not an
expert at raising dogs and have a dog with a good temperament,
you know, and good genetics, your dog could be terrified of

(58:35):
the vet or somewhat aggressive at the vet.
And if you don't have words to control them, it'd be a
nightmare. For sure.
But for the record, we could do it without down and stay and
sit. Those 3 for sure.
I mean, there's again, there's alot of you could teach them stay
and stay. That could be cool.

(58:55):
No, but there, there goes in your stay there too, so.
We can do it. We can just use wait.
We can just change the word we like.
We can use stay. We're going to use wait.
And what that means is don't move until I say another word
that says you can move again. That's.
Funny. But it's way different than
stay. Way different.
There's there's. I don't even understand how you

(59:16):
can confuse the two. What else do we have?
I had another one, I don't really remember it now though.
Darn me. Darn you.
Well, to wrap up, we were talking.
You mentioned tricks earlier. We could kind of define the

(59:39):
difference between a trick and an obedience command.
So I defined my difference, or again, what my definition would
be. What's yours?
I think it'd be the same as yours, if I remember correctly
and understood correctly, but itwould be, do I actually expect
you to do this? So one is an obedience command,

(01:00:00):
meaning you'd like, you have to do this.
And the other one is something that like, I hope you do, it'd
be fun if you do it right now, but it's not a command.
So to me, the difference lies not in what the action is, but
how we, you know, are we going to enforce it?
And do we expect them to do it no matter what?

(01:00:20):
Because at how? How is Play Dead any different
from Bang or Settle? They're all the same thing.
And if I need my dog to lay on their side, to me that's a
command. I need them to go on to their
side if I'm going to check nailsor do whatever.
But is that any different physically?
Is that any different than Bang or Play Dead?

(01:00:43):
Right. No, I actually I like that
definition. I think I'll try and using that
more when I'm explaining it. It doesn't matter what the
command is itself, right? It's just, do we expect them to
comply and are we willing to enforce it?
Mm hmm. You got a cool if you did this.

(01:01:05):
No, I don't think I have anything to add.
I think you guys defined it. Perfectly, it would make your
daddy happy. It would make Mommy so proud.
Very proud. All right, well, I'm excited.
Nelson, you did a good job in this episode.
Everyone drop some comments, Tell us how amazed Nelson was.

(01:01:28):
Positive reinforcement only, please.
That's true. All right.
Thanks for listening everybody. Thanks guys.