September 4, 2025 • 50 mins
Although we are fans of e collar training, there are a lot of bad e collar trainers out there. Some people point to bad trainers and say "BAN THE TOOL", but this won't work.
Bad trainers will always be bad trainers unless they learn. Banning a tool will just drive the tool underground or cause them to use a different tool with the same bad methods.
When using a e collar it is crucial to (1) have a plan, (2) take your time when introducing the collar and (3) spend more time on the teaching phase than you think you need to and (4) make sure you spend a ton of time on teaching the dog another alternative to undesirable behavior.
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(00:10):
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(00:31):
Today we're talking E collars, right?
Yes. And we're talking specifically
about that. There's a lot of trainers, and
obviously we're not going to usenames.
We're not looking to bash anybody, but there's a lot of
trainers that do what we'd wouldcall improper or lazy E collar
training. And then that bleeds down into
clients who people get an E collar in there and someone's
(00:54):
like, yeah, just do this with it.
And it leads to really, really lazy, improper training.
So we're talking about that today, right?
Definitely. OK, who's who's leading us off
and framing this or is that framed?
Did we frame it? And now we just, we just go?
I think that was the framing forsure.
Go or do I go or does lost go? I think you go.
(01:18):
No. You said you have a ton of stuff
you want to talk about, so I want to.
Hear it? Well, dude, yeah, I could talk
about this for the rest of the day.
I think we're going to try to limit this episode to an hour.
But I guess my thought is when Isee an E collar, I don't know if
I've ever looked at an E collar and said this is going to make
(01:38):
everything easier or faster. And I got distracted there.
My I needed to figure out how tomake my phone not send messages
to my computer. I've got a Mac.
And so now it's like just does stuff for my phone.
So as texts come in, I'm like reading them while we're doing a
podcast. It's kind of weird.
OK, so let me back up a little bit.
(02:00):
So I never look at it and say this is going to make my job way
easier or faster with the dog. And I think that might be kind
of the one of the big problems is that people use E collars as
the easy button. The way we use it is it doesn't
make training faster. It's another step.
We're doing all of our normal training.
We're teaching the dog everything like we normally do
and then layering the E collar on top of it.
(02:22):
And I think it's worth spending a little bit of time today of
why we find that valuable. But then there's some people it
seems like, and I want to make sure we don't get into or like
talk trash about there's some trainers that start with the E
collar and I think do a really good job with it.
I disagree. I think I like our way better,
but I don't think their ways badwhen they're at they're working
(02:43):
hard to train the dog on everything on the E collar and
teaching and you know, and teaching fairly.
What I don't like are the ones who are using the E collar a lot
of times just for bad behavior, but they're not walking the dog
more. They're not advocating exercise.
They're not advocating training techniques and calming
techniques. And it's just like, yeah, here's
the thing to stop your dog. That's what I really don't.
(03:07):
And really, I mean, like, I don't like that whole idea, the
whole concept, because it could go way past E college, right?
I mean, I, I see people using muscles that way all the time
of, Oh, my dog is barking. Let me put a muzzle on so that
it stops barking when again, it's lazy.
You're not teaching the dog anything and you're probably not
(03:29):
fulfilling, you know, like anything that the dog needs in
order to be calm enough to actually stop the barking.
You know, So really it's kind ofa, an attack on on that whole
concept as opposed to only the Ecollar side of it.
But E collars, in my opinion, you know, when you screw around
with E collars in a really, really bad way, there's just,
(03:50):
there's worse consequences, right?
You know, the dog could be really, really scared and then
all training is much harder because of that.
Yeah, I mean, for sure that's a big problem, right?
You can make everything worse. What I specifically don't like
is, I mean, we talk a lot in this podcast about how we handle
(04:11):
certain scenarios. So a client said, my dog's
barking out the window. We're talking about how to use
your voice, how to go over thereand stop them, how to calm them
down, how to use the leash, how to set it up.
There's so much that goes into it.
And every once in a while, you hear a trainer or like, we
talked to a new client who says,my previous trainer said this.
And they're like, yeah, he just said, put it on.
(04:31):
And if the dog barks at the window, correct them.
And now are you like, are you even thinking about good barks
versus bad barks? And is like, there's a, you
know, a strange man in your front yard and the dog's getting
the correction and you're not even paying attention to what's
happening. You're just stopping it.
And once again, you know, not exercising, not calming the dog
down. So that's what I really don't
(04:53):
like. And I mean, how often do you
guys hear some variation of that?
I hear that a lot. I hear it a decent amount, but I
I think that that's actually an excellent example of what you're
saying of because the dog was annoying, we tried to put a
Band-Aid on the situation being the E collar.
But because you're not actively in the training, you have no
(05:13):
idea what the dog is actually barking at, right?
And I mean, we see that tons where, Oh, it's probably a leaf
blowing. There's probably a dog out
there, you know, just kind of shut up and I'll stop you from
barking. However it is that I can, if
they even try. We have a lot of clients
obviously that just kind of livewith it, which is impressive to
some degree. But again, there's so much
(05:37):
information that you're actuallyjust leaving on the table and
never actually taken in right, Getting your dog to be able to
determine or, or discern rather what is appropriate to bark at
and what isn't. And that's, I mean, that's how
dogs communicate. But I get it.
It's annoying for sure if they're barking inappropriate
stuff, but tapping the button and just getting them to be
(05:59):
scared about barking or or maybethey're not even scared.
Let's let's not go to crazy extremes.
Maybe they stopped caring, you know, maybe they stopped caring
about the corrections because yeah, it sucks in the moment,
but it also feels really good tocontinue barking.
And now you think all training is worthless.
You know, nothing can stop this dog because I've tapped him on
(06:20):
this E collar and now it's the shelter when probably could have
got done on even a prong collar,right?
Or just appropriately teaching them on on an E collar.
Yeah, I hear that where people say, especially online comments
on our videos, like I've tried the new collar with my dog and
it doesn't matter how high it is, he won't listen.
(06:41):
And I've never even come close to encountering that in real
life. So.
When I hear that, my first thought is maybe the fit's not
good, right? Or maybe the battery's dead, you
don't have a good contact something.
But assuming the collar is working well, then I feel really
sad for that dog. And that to me that that means
you're not teaching the dog. And I've met a lot of new
clients that have done this where they've had it.
(07:02):
Someone's given them an E collarand they're like, if the dog
runs away, you know, push this button.
But if there's no teaching phase, like you just have to,
then pray and hope that when youdo that your dogs understands
that you're not happy and that then their decision, even if
they understand, which they might not, then you hope their
decision is to come back to you or stay in the yard versus
fleeing. Well, more of that than
(07:23):
anything. Yeah, absolutely.
It's hard to imagine that a normal dog is going to
determine, you know, first time that they get tapped on the
collar of, you know, Dad's mad or Mom's mad.
I should go back to them. The hope is that they see
something, think that that's what made it happen, and they
run back home as opposed to heading for the hills and now
(07:44):
you have to catch your dog. So a couple big picture things I
want to throw out. The 1st is there's obviously a
lot of people that want to ban Ecollars and they could easily
jump on a lot of this content and say like here's here's why,
here's people misusing them and you know, here's proof of it or
trainers talking about it. And, and my thought is people
(08:07):
misusing the tool doesn't have any, it shouldn't have any
bearing and whether or not the tool is banned because those
people are going to misuse another tool if they're lazy
trainers or inept trainers or meme trainers or whatever they
happen to be any colors are banned.
Well, they probably still just find one and use it.
Or they would just use a like, you know, a prong collar.
(08:27):
Or even scarier is if you say, well, ban those two, what are
they going to do then? Put a cloth collar on?
And if you're a lazy trainer andyou're trying to fix like a
picture of Rhodesian that likes to bark out the window by
somehow correcting them on a cloth collar, my gosh, talk
about danger for the dog. So to me, none of this leads
(08:48):
into maybe the tool should be banned.
That would make everything worseand not better.
I think as trainers, one of the most important things we should
be doing is having conversationsabout how to use all this stuff
properly and have less client new clients.
You know, I would love to not have new clients that come to me
with bad E collar training in their in their past, because
that's hard to overcome. Lost.
(09:09):
You look like you were going to say something.
I, I feel like both of you seem to have very strong opinions on
this and it seems like you both think that it's happening a lot,
at least from what Nelson said and from what you said, Covey,
it seems like you both feel strongly that this is happening
a lot. I guess one, how much do you
feel like it's actually happening?
(09:30):
Like is it one out of every 10 dogs that's trained on an E
collar or I guess tools in general?
To Nelson's point from earlier, it's not just E collars, it's
tools in general. How many are trained in a lazy
way on these tools that you're saying are sort of
inappropriate? And then I guess the other part
of it that keeps jumping in my head is then how much of it are
you saying is the trainer's fault versus the person working
(09:53):
with the dog, like the owner? Like do you think sometimes
they're just buying the tool andtrying to use it but don't know
what they're doing and that's what causes the error?
So I guess I'm just looking for some clarification.
I'll take my first shot at that.So I think the framing is wrong,
or at least that's not the framing that I typically use for
(10:15):
that. It's not one out of every single
dog or, you know, one out of 10 dogs.
The way I tend to look at it is someone who's interested in E
collars being the main pool, right?
So if an E collar comes into theequation now, how many dogs have
(10:35):
already tried to E collar or howmany owners rather or trainers
or anything like that versus owners that I'm the first one
kind of introducing them to the E collar.
And when you use numbers like that, that's where I really do
start to see it actually. I mean, it's fairly frequent
where just like you said, I think that's a big one where
(10:56):
because they couldn't talk to anybody or because they were
scared to ask questions before they got a trainer, they just
went out, bought a, bought an E collar, just started pressing
buttons and went from there. I think that that's pretty
common. But also I've I've seen a lot of
trainers where maybe it's tough to say.
I mean, everything is situation by situation.
(11:17):
Maybe they didn't do the training horribly and they just
explained it poorly to the owner, in which case the owner
was misusing the E collar or again, didn't talk about
fitment. And so then they just kind of
went up and up and up and eventually it fit properly and
made contact and the dog got scared.
I think that there's kind of a alot of different places where
(11:39):
this stuff can go wrong, You know, not not just there's a
million trainers out there that are trying to do the wrong thing
with the E collar. But I do acknowledge of course
that that is a thing. So I I wouldn't say that hey,
the majority of dogs in America are E collar trained poorly.
I would say out of the out of the people who are interested in
(12:02):
E collars for their dog, there'sa decent amount of them that are
poorly trained on their E collar.
Throw percentage at it. I'm just curious what you're
going to say. I would say 40% if an E collar
comes into comes into conversation with a client, I
(12:22):
would say I'm still the introduction for the majority of
of those clients, but there's a a very, very big amount that
already have one, have already had a trainer try and use one or
have just whatever. But I I also agree that you
know, a lot of it isn't just trainers doing it wrong
(12:46):
necessarily, but could very verywell be.
I would say a good amount is just owners not knowing who to
talk to, not knowing what answers to trust, buying an E
collar and just pressing buttons.
Does that percentage change based off of what kind of E
collar you're talking about? Like if it's an Amazon brand one
versus like a mini IQ versus a dog truck like does, is it a
(13:08):
shifting scale? There's no doubt in my mind that
if if they already have an E collar and they come out with a
mini educator and E collars technologies mini educator,
there's a way better chance thatthey didn't butcher the training
or at least have had a trainer use the E collar with their dog.
(13:30):
Because most people, most peoplewant to try things with cheap
alternatives and just see if they like it or if it works for
their dog or whatever the case may be.
And those are always the worst. I mean, they're just, they're
just the worst wholesale. What I tell people is, you know,
those are not good for teaching in the slightest.
(13:51):
And so you're trying it for the first time with a very, very bad
outcome being the majority of time or rather being the most
likely scenario. And so again, if they have a
cheap one, there's a good chancethat a trainer wasn't using,
wasn't using it with them, that they just, you know, bought it
and tried it. And there's probably going to be
(14:13):
some repairs having to happen with their dog before we're
ready to try the E collar again.So cover, what do you think of
all that? And I agree with what Nelson
said, if the if the client new client pulls out a mini educator
I feel much better than if they pull out some Amazon brand that
sells for like 60 bucks because that one they just put on and
(14:36):
pushed buttons basically guaranteed.
Almost guaranteed for sure. And what, what I think is hard
with E collars is that they're so easy to misuse.
And I don't think that's a problem with the tool.
It's just, it is what it is. It, it can like think what I
mean by that is if you have, if your neighbor says, oh, your dog
(14:56):
is, you know, running and bark into the fence line when they do
that, put a prong collar on him with a little short leash.
When they do that, go over thereand grab that and like give him
a hard tug and tell him no. So I I'm not saying that's what
I would advocate like that. Maybe that's what their neighbor
says. Well, they're not going to do
that. Like they're, they're not going
to go out in their yard most people and chase their dog down
and get the dog. I can just give a correction,
(15:18):
right? So they're probably going to do
nothing. If their neighbor says Hey, like
use an E collar and like put it on, when he does that, just push
the button and if it doesn't work, turn it up a little bit.
That to me is the problem because people will actually do
that because it's so easy. And so therein lies the problem
to me is that to use it wrong ispretty simple.
(15:39):
I very rarely have someone usinga prong in a what I would call
egregious manner. Not just not that it couldn't be
used that way, but like for a prong to use it really wrong,
like what are they going to do? Put it on and yank really,
really hard? That takes a person who wants to
do harm as a or like it is just has a temper or whatever with
the E collar just so easy to accidentally misuse.
(16:02):
Which is why I think it's so important that people get some
training on on how to use it properly because it does
nothing. Obviously it's bad for that dog,
but it's also bad for E collars in general.
Each time someone uses 1 and either says it made my dog
scared or didn't work or whatever, it just makes it you
know it harms the reputation of the tool when it's being applied
improperly. Is your percentage around the
(16:25):
same place like you think 40%? No, I would say lower, but I'm
just guessing. I've never tracked this or
thought about it. So I would say 10 or 20%.
But I'm just if you asked me that same question in six
months, I have no idea what I would say because we're talking
specifically about client comes to me and has an interest in an
E collar and we're talking aboutif they've used one before and
(16:48):
then used it improperly. Yeah, if they say I've used one
before, like if it's not been our client, I'd say 90% chance
I'm going to be not loving the method, but you know, not
necessarily hating it. And then 5050 that I'm going to
hate the method. There's, you know, that 40%
maybe where they train differently, but I look at them
(17:10):
like it's not bad training, it'sjust different than how I would
do it and I want to tweak it, but there's a 50% chance that
I'm going to really be unhappy with what they did.
Doesn't that mean that there's 10% of just Gray area?
Yeah, I mean, that's what happens when you make up numbers
on the fly. It's just 10%.
(17:30):
I don't, I don't actually know. I want to get back to what you
were saying about. Is talking about it bad for the
industry or just bad for the dogcommunity as a whole?
Because it's not just dog training community, you know, we
obviously train regular people. So I think quite the opposite of
(17:54):
people who who's concerned with you should keep it, you know,
quiet or, or else people are going to use this as ammunition
against us. I think a lot of the problems
really do come down to the fact that it's if we're not calling
those people out, if we are not monitoring ourselves as the
(18:15):
community or, you know, fixing and wedding out all of the
problems as the community itself, that's worse.
And you're going to give more opportunities for people to jump
on that kind of stuff as opposedto saying, hey, we agree with
you, that's bad, that's crap, weshouldn't be doing that.
Let's work together to to make sure that that doesn't happen.
(18:37):
Whether you like the E collar tool or not, I agree with you
that that's shit and that's not how we should be using it.
But I also think just and I'm sure I've said this in like
1,000,000 episodes already, right?
But talking about it is the biggest way to change that.
I think a lot of people do fail to find good advice, or at least
(18:59):
just kind of like fail to find consistent advice.
And they're scared to go to a PetSmart or to a pet store
because they'll get crucified right there for even asking
questions. And therefore, yeah, do you
start to get these people who insecret go buy an E collar?
Just try tapping a couple of buttons, seeing what happens and
never actually talking to someone about it, or at least
(19:22):
not being able to find the information on YouTube.
Obviously, YouTube has gotten a lot better about that kind of
situational. A lot of our, a lot of the
trainers that do use them have been making a lot of videos.
But when I first started, you know that it was kind of hard to
find. There's only a couple of people.
Yeah. And when what you said about
talking about it is to me, it's a lot like just what we've
(19:46):
talked about with pit bulls in general.
Where I don't dislike pits in the slightest, people still
attack me when I say anything negative about them.
Like the fact that a pit is morelikely to kill you than a
golden. Like it just is statistically
like no question. That doesn't mean pits are bad.
And then if we hide that, you know, if we hide the fact that a
(20:07):
pit bull is more likely to kill you than a golden, well then
that just means. You know, it's the problem is
going to be exasperated, you're going to have more poor
socializing, more poor training.And then if the problem is still
there, it's going to get worse. And I think it's the same with E
collars, right? Like obviously I'm not anti E
collar, but if you hide from theissue and you don't want to talk
about it because maybe someone could take that out of context
(20:28):
while you're just being weak at that point and hiding from a
real problem. Exactly.
And then the problem is going toget worse and you're still going
to have, if the, if you believe there's a problem that dogs are
being trained improperly than orbeing mistreated, well, that's
going to continue. And that's a pretty shitty thing
to allow. So to me, I think, I think these
conversations have to be had. I would say I'd like to sit,
(20:52):
maybe pivot a little bit to things that would be useful.
I know most of the people that listen are trainers and I'm sure
trainers hearing this can resonate with all of this.
A client listening might be thinking like, OK, well, give me
some more examples. And we talked about one a couple
earlier, but overall, if you don't have a way to stop your
(21:14):
dog from doing something or get them to do something without any
collar, that's a big deal in my opinion.
So there has to be a verbal or on leash or physical corollary.
I can't think of any example that I wouldn't want that.
So examples would be like if you're using it for come, well,
I believe you need a correction for come without the E collar,
(21:37):
which means they've already learned that first and you have
something to do when the E collar is not on.
Same with jumping on people. Same with stealing food.
You have to have an off leisure,I'm sorry, an on leisure
physical corollary. If you don't, I'd say pretty
hard line that you're doing it wrong.
There needs to be that and then you can determine which is more
appropriate in this particular scenario.
(21:59):
And maybe, but you also need something to do with the E
collar is not on. So your dog doesn't live their
life with an E collar. But honestly, the most important
part, and I've had this conversation with some what
really well known E collar trainers that ones that like to
start with E collar on day one. My thought when I when I talk to
them is your way sounds fair. It doesn't sound mean like
(22:19):
they're, you know, they're putting a lot of effort into it,
but the client is never learningthe skills to go up and get the
dog. And if they aren't, to me that's
kind of problematic. When do they learn that?
When does the client learn how to go manage their dog when the
E collar is not on? When do they teach the dog?
When I show this body language. You should chill out and don't
(22:41):
run like you just need to wait there for a second while I come
over you. They only learn that through
time and by the person developing muscle memory.
So that's my biggest issue with training that I don't consider
improper or bad but just go intothe E collar.
And my opinion too early is thatyou as a handler or owner don't
develop all those physical skills.
(23:02):
I think that that's fair for sure.
Yeah, absolutely. Any any pushback or scenarios
you think I'm missing with my statement of there's nothing
that should you should do with an E collar that doesn't have a
physical corollary? Anything you can think of?
There's not a perfect example. There's a difference in how you
might want to do it. And So what I mean by that is,
(23:25):
you know, when you first start using E collars, this is for
anyone that doesn't know, you know, a big concern is getting
your dog to understand that you are in control of the collar and
the dog is in control of their own behaviors, which you know,
can activate the collar. But there are also times where
(23:46):
you can definitely utilize the fear of something.
I call it a superstition. A lot of people will call it a
superstition. If your dog is likely to touch
or to hop a fence or something like that.
There's a lot of times where youmight go a little higher.
That way you can tap them when they jump on the fence and then
(24:08):
they're like, oh man, that that sucked.
The fence is scary and I'll never touch it ever again.
Similar concept to the counter. I don't jump up for food anymore
because the one time I did it, Itook this crazy correction and
that was the scariest thing where I, I'm just scared of the
countertop, you know, from now on.
(24:29):
There's times where that could be useful.
There's also a very, very easy way to mess that up for new
people. In which case maybe that's not
what we should be kind of like promoting as unless you're
working with a trainer. But I definitely did want to
throw that out there because I think a lot of people would.
So I'd like to rephrase that briefly because I think that's a
(24:50):
really good point. I mean, your point, if I'm
understanding you correctly, is that there are a few times you'd
purposely want to create a superstitious behavior.
Yeah. And so examples I could think of
would be if you had a pool and you never, ever wanted your dog
in it, you're afraid they're going to drown when they go in
the pool. You don't want to teach them to
swim for whatever reason. Maybe they physically can't, I
(25:13):
don't know. So you put an E collar on it an
appropriate level, but they walkover, they touch their nose to
it or their paw and they get a correction and you don't say
anything. And their assumption is it was
that pool and done well. And if you do it in an elegant
fashion with a thinking it through and putting a lot of
effort into it, you could end upwith a dog who is not
(25:34):
traumatized but knows like the pool is basically like an
electric fence. You've seen a, we've all seen a
dog probably touch an electric fence like cattle fence or
something like a horse fence, something like that.
They remember and it doesn't hurt them, you know, but they
real quickly it happens and theyremember it for life.
So I guess yes, there are times then very limited where we
purposely want that superstitious behavior and we
(25:56):
don't want to have to be involved.
We don't want to be have to be outside to tell the dog right?
Don't go in the pool. If I'm not mistaken, I think
that's a lot of what the rattlesnake trainer was doing
right when he snake trains thosedogs.
It's a similar concept of, hey, when I smell this scent, it's
likely going to hurt and I should get out of there.
Now I, I do, I recognize that I said hi or hurt and you said an
(26:21):
appropriate level. You know, what's high is
whatever's high for the dog. You know, that doesn't mean turn
the collar all the way up because you might really
traumatize, you know, a softer dog or something like that.
So although appropriate number is probably the better way to
put it, you know when I say higher or you know when I say
(26:43):
high level or or hurt the dog orwhatever the case may be, you
are trying to get them to be uncomfortable with whatever,
whatever it is that they're doing, touching the fence,
jumping on the counter, smellingthe snake, but that's dependent
on the individual dock. Yeah.
And just to maybe throw this outthere, we don't edit these
podcasts at all. We don't really cut anything or
(27:04):
do anything. I think we should.
And I should say something like,you know, there's very few times
that you would want to use an E collar without, without A
physical corollary too, I can think of would be the pool to
create a superstitious behavior.And maybe I'll throw something
else out there real smart. I'm like Nelson, what do you
think? And then everyone will be like,
(27:25):
dude, that Covey guy, he, he's smart.
And he's like, I didn't think about that.
That's good. I'm going to redo my percentages
too. I'm going to go back.
You go, but I'll do a terrible job.
It'll be like edited in with a different voice.
Like I think it's 20. 20%. Dude, Vloss, why do you keep
coming in and out of this car? What are you doing over there?
(27:45):
It's like a little circus. It's crazy.
The Internet just keeps on dropping.
So I apologize. I'll keep.
Reordering it, it reorders whereeverybody is.
So then I'm like frantically looking back and forth.
It's confusing. It's when it happens, everything
just goes silent. So like in my headphones, it's
not just you guys talking, but there's all the background noise
(28:07):
and everything and it just like goes so silent and it it's
really creepy when it happens. I bet.
Scary. I'm sorry.
I'm sorry to everybody. All right, Nelson, do you want
to throw out an example? I, I think it'd be nice to have
another example of things you see, like especially for clients
listening who might be wonderinglike, oh crap, am I making these
(28:30):
mistakes they're talking about? And so far we haven't given that
many examples. Could you give another example
of a way you've seen an E color used inside?
Doesn't have to be like a, you know, insane example, but
something you've seen that you don't care for, that you would
do a different way. Yeah, bark colors, you know,
it's a type of E collar. It's not exactly the same thing.
(28:50):
But one of the things that I really don't like about bark
collars is, again, it doesn't teach the owner how to stop it
themselves with either their presence or being able to calm
the dog down. Some dogs, especially the first
time that you use it, really getfreaked out because they they
don't now they're worried about the correction.
(29:11):
So they bark more and that, you know, you kind of get into that
cycle, but that's a very, very common one that I've, I, I got
to be honest, I, I, it's been going down.
I haven't seen as many bark collars, but I've seen enough
that, that, that always sticks with me.
But bark collars to me is, is a big one where I would rather
(29:32):
have a remote. I would rather control the
correction. And again, I'd rather fix it
with a leash and collar 1st and then just kind of finish the
training off with an E collar asopposed to just trying to get
the behavior to go away with theE coli.
So with saying that great example, there's probably some.
I was just reading an article about a new AI based bark
(29:56):
collar. It didn't actually have a brand
in it, which is sort of weird, but it was talking about how you
know, it not only monitors the bark, what the actual noise is,
but it also is monitoring heart rate and stuff like that.
So you'd probably be really against AI bark collars just
doing their thing, huh? Yes, absolutely.
Because being AI it would literally just shock your dog
(30:18):
100 times and you'd be like dudewhy did you do that caller?
And like that's a good point, sorry about that.
I won't randomly shock your dog ever again.
Thanks for bringing that up. It'll be ChatGPT able to correct
your dog. You guys hate AII do hate AI.
I'm not going to lie to you. Hi everyone.
(30:38):
This is Jason Ferguson, and I'm the President of the
International Association of Canine Professionals.
Our organization is focused on three pillars, education,
certification, and legislation. What that means is we help
educate our members to ensure that they're the best dog
trainers they can be. We also offer certification so
that clients know that the trainers are true professional.
(30:59):
Our legislative efforts are focused on ensuring that
trainers have the freedom to choose the tools and techniques
that work best for the dogs and clients that they work with.
Join the ICP today for yourself and to protect the industry.
Our friends on the Balance Dog Training podcast support the ICP
and we hope you will as well. Something I want to throw out is
(31:23):
that I do want to give an example of how an E collar could
be used by another trainer without a physical corollary.
This is not how I would do it, but it could be done in a good
fashion. So let's talk.
I talk about the the front window, a dog that's barking out
the window. I don't see a print.
Now if your answer, I guess let me give you a three options.
(31:43):
If your answer, your trainer's told you or what you're doing is
just dog does something I don't like, I push the button and tell
him no and I then I say, what are your other options?
If that's your other only option, I'd say you're doing it
wrong. Hard and fast rule.
That's not good. You need calming techniques.
What if the dog's not doing well?
Are you just going to crank it up until they do?
That's a problem. You have to have a calming
technique and if you just boughtan E collar and you're pushing
(32:06):
the button, you obviously don't have one of those.
I would, if you were using the Ecollar, I would layer it in
after you've done the three-stepprocess that we talked about in
a few episodes ago. So now it's like the easiest
thing ever. You're correcting at a low
level. If the dog really didn't listen,
you would right away look him like that's weird.
He's too worked up. Maybe I should go over and clip
a, you know, a lead to him and call him down for a minute.
(32:28):
Or maybe I need to use my brain and look out the window and see
like he's really crazy right now.
Maybe there's something I shouldbe aware of.
And it turns out there's like a raccoon outside your window.
And I would think you'd give your dog a little more leeway
for barking at a raccoon a foot from your window then, you know,
someone walking on the street 100 yards away.
So I think that's important. But a way this could be done is
(32:50):
there are trainers that are very, I'll say heavy on the E
collar, but I don't mean heavy-handed like hurting the
dog as we use it a lot where youcould not have a physical
corollary. I still don't love it, but it
could be tap on the E collar andsay leave it and then your
calming technique, if you need it is come or heal and the dog
comes over to you. Or maybe you then sit and then
(33:12):
you put them into a place or a down stay.
So there are ways that this could be explained by a good
trainer that I could hear and say like, OK, you don't have a
physical corollary, You're certainly not mistreating the
dog. And I agree that would work.
And it is a like a viable methodof training.
My push back there would just belike what happens when the
collar's battery is dead or theydon't have it on that?
(33:35):
That would be my push back, which I think is relevant and
it's something to think about. They said my clients are super
good at just they charge it every night, put it on every day
and that's the, you know how life goes and fine.
So I just want to make it clear,I think there's ways you could
do this that are good training without a major problem or flaw.
But the downside would be you'rethen very reliant on the E
(33:57):
collar, which I don't. I I guess I want to throw out
there that I'm very pro E collar.
I'm, you know, I've, I will always have E collar trained
dogs. It just works for my lifestyle.
And I, I tell all of my clients that, you know, because it'll
again, a lot of the times we'll have clients who are kind.
Of like we have said that at thebeginning of the episode I
(34:19):
assumed it was implied, but maybe this is a good caveat.
Just in Case No one's seen our past episodes, right?
Like, listen, I'm not talking crap about E collars as a tool.
I think that there's a lot of people that kind of mess it up,
you know, both trainers and owners.
Very very pro E collar myself. I guess I want to then throw two
(34:39):
things there. I'm of course the same and my
reasons would be 1 is very oftenthe E collar is safer than other
options. I was helping someone the other
day the first time meeting they're working with the dog
with a pit mix. Super nice dog, but she's
ludicrous on the come command like gets a wild hair up her ass
and it is like run in circles and running away from you.
(35:00):
And I look at like that dog if you're not good in the long line
is going to hurt itself. So we we moved on to a wide
cloth collar Immediately I was like, you cannot train this dog
on a prong running like that. And I look at that dog, I'm
like, we need to fix this long line stuff.
But this dog would benefit from an E collar and there's no way
they're going to hurt themselves.
And I do worry even on a cloth collar, that dog starts zipping
(35:24):
around like it's prone to do andwraps around a tree on a long
line full speed, even on the cloth collar, even on a hardness
like that dog could easily hurt itself.
So there's times it's obviously great for safety.
And then the other one would be you can communicate with your
dog when they're basically anywhere.
And I've told my story, but of having a mastiff that was too
far away to hear me because the wind was blowing in a, you know,
(35:46):
a field of crops and it like thecrops are down but couldn't
hear. He started chasing a deer and I
couldn't get him back until he finally had visual on me.
And that was really scary. It was my own dog and the dog
who'd never disobeyed, but he couldn't hear me.
So huge E collar proponent for that reason right there.
Sometimes they're 50 yards away,the winds blowing, another dog
(36:06):
is barking in their face. They're not going to hear you
calling to them. So if you're going to have your
dog off leash in an unfenced area, I think it's crucial.
So you guys have talked a lot about clients struggling with
using an E collar and I think that makes this the perfect time
for our 62nd question. Oh, that was smooth.
(36:27):
I like to. That is smooth from a tech
standpoint. I'm not sure I can make a phone
call today. So we're just, it's just off.
We're not doing it. Well, we could.
Nelson could use a funny voice. Like you could ask him and he
(36:47):
could. What accents can you do, Nelson?
Mexican American, are you? Are you ready?
Do you want me to ask? Well.
No, let's figure this out. I I've never heard you speak in
a Mexican accent. Is it pretty legit?
Oi bato, what's up mang? I feel like that's pretty legit.
(37:12):
I would respond to that. I anyway, like I know exactly
who's talking to me. Anyone who's listening to this
episode that doesn't know that you're Hispanic is going to be
immediately just destroying you.Have like cancelled.
What else you got? Dude?
(37:32):
I spent some time the other night listening to British
accents and showing them to my kids.
Oh my gosh, there there are somethat are impossible to
understand. For sure.
Uh huh. I can say aluminium.
That's British. That is how they that's how they
say it. Say what?
Aluminium. I have no idea what that.
(37:54):
Means I think you were slightly off that time.
You were you were closer the first time.
Aluminium. Aluminium.
Aluminium I think is how they say.
It what word is this? Aluminum.
Aluminum, of course. Dude, I heard one, I forget what
it was, and it was this guy talking outside of a soccer
match and he was like saying stuff like I could only pick up
(38:16):
like one word out of 20. I was like, I know that word.
It was all English. It was crazy.
One of my I could say oy wanker.That's isn't that an Aussie not
in? English, I don't know.
Aren't they really the same thing though?
They're pretty close but different for sure.
I just like basil instead of basil.
Basil. Basil, I have heard that.
Well, that's British baking willteach you those real quick.
(38:40):
Oh, hey, I've got it for you. I googled it.
I don't know how to pronounce it.
Scouse, Scouse. Scouse.
You anyone listening? You want to hear some wild
English accents? Look that up.
It is like I you almost can't tell you speaking English when
people are speaking. And then every once we'll hear
like I, I think I understand more Spanish than I do someone
(39:02):
speaking that. Muy Mao.
All right, so. You're going to ask Nelson and
he's going to answer in an accent.
Or is that too much for you? Nelson, do you have to do?
I mean, I no, that's going to beway too much.
Can you do Queens? English.
Both. I think I could do that.
(39:24):
I only know that from Jurassic World.
That's me too, SO. Queens English girl.
All right, So you're just going to do standard, standard Elgin
English? I'm going to try and do Queens
English, we'll see how I do. OK, ready?
What's the biggest mistake you see owners make when they first
(39:46):
start using an E collar? They don't charge the E collar
the first time. Oh no, you know what?
Actually better better than that.
They don't. Oh, maybe that was bad, because
that was the wrong. No, all of that was bad.
Better than that. Better than that is a bad fit #1
(40:11):
answer. Bad fit. #2. #2 is not charging.
You still have 30 seconds #3. So. #3 is not having the remote
on the body. That was the best I think.
Yeah, you left it on over there on the coffee table.
On the tea table #4 #4 is. Oh, that's, I mean, those are
(40:37):
the three most common. That's good #4 would be I didn't
turn it on. Silly me.
That's all I got. I got.
One more. Come on, give us one more.
This is amazing. OK #5 would be I hit the wrong
button? Oh God, that one's terrible.
(40:57):
I thought I hit the vibrate. It turns out it was the wrong
button. Great.
Work. Great work, Nelson.
For the record, Voss, don't try to destroy us convents.
I was loving that. And you said it wasn't.
It was amazing. And this is probably going to be
our best episode ever because ofthat.
That right there was super solid.
(41:18):
I got. I got to get better at that.
I think there's at least three British people that just hit
unsubscribe. They're commenting right now.
They're like, I'm really pissed.We actually do have a decent
number of followers in the UK, so we'll see what happens from
that. Maybe they'll like it.
(41:39):
It's all in good fun. All in good jest?
Yep. Not all in jest.
I don't think it's all in good jest.
I think it's. All in jest.
Yeah, there you go. OK, well, I think it's a good
answer. I mean, there's so many of those
mistakes people make with an E collar and we.
Went what would what would be one that I didn't say quick.
(42:00):
I don't know about that, but thenot charging is definitely what
is definitely the number one. Give me the question having
failed out. What was the question?
It was another example that I did not say no.
No, no. But the original question from
Voss. Oh, what's the biggest mistake
you see owners make when they first start using an E collar?
(42:25):
I find a lot that are very hesitant to correct.
Oh, definitely. And that's one of the reasons I
have them all tried on their arm, because I want them to know
what it feels like. My thought is if you're not
comfortable using it, then you shouldn't be using it yet.
So if you're not stoled on it being a fair tool for your dog,
(42:47):
then you just you shouldn't haveit on and like you putting it on
and not really using it. Well now I've got another.
I do not like it all. I'm going to I'm not going to
use the word hate. I do not like using E collars as
a threat like the the pager as athreat.
Yes, that's a good one. And I am so very clear to
clients to never do it. And there's still some that I
(43:08):
work with that do. And I just think you're losing
out on so much of the amazing functionality of an E collar
where your pager is no longer a positive and it's just a threat.
You don't need that. The stem can correct them very
at a very low level and you can turn it up if needed.
And let's keep that vibration being a positive, happy thing.
(43:29):
I think that was a super solid one.
I was. I'm surprised I missed that one.
That was a very, very good answer.
All now that I'm going to edit all kinds of stuff, I'm going to
cut out all my Hemming and hawing.
First of all, let me hear the question again and I'm just
going to instantly fire that oneoff.
There you go, this. Is going to be good.
This episode is going to be 7 minutes when I'm done with it.
(43:50):
It's going to be so good. I don't know if you were on when
I was saying that, but I mentioned how we never edit the
episodes and that I'm going to edit this one to just make
myself sound super smart. That'd be good, you might want
to edit it because of me dropping every two seconds.
I don't think so. I think we'll leave it in there
just coming and going because the the way it switches cameras,
(44:12):
you won't even be able to know. People won't, yeah, people won't
even know. They'll just be like he was just
quiet for a while. And now they will.
And we don't hide anything from viewers and listeners, so I want
them to know that your Internet sucks.
Your Internet. Certainly does today, without a
doubt. So it happens when you live in
Florida Hurricanes. We yeah, we're supposed to.
(44:34):
We should be having a hurricane right now.
So really, we no, no, it turned real.
Floridians didn't even worry about it.
Voss is just worried about another Boa constrictor ripping
his fiber optic line out from the pole and then his internet's
down. If I was standing 5 feet away
(44:54):
from me, I'd strike you in your throat.
Me. Yeah, it's not a boa
constrictor, you fool. It's a Python.
Burmese Python, yeah. We don't have, we don't have a
Python. We'd probably be more likely to
have a boa here than a Python. Yeah, somebody just released.
Yeah, somebody just released it.And they and they can still
(45:17):
thrive. The pythons are further South,
so they haven't found one, but they wouldn't be able to breed.
They haven't found one in the summer north too.
They haven't found one this far north.
Interesting. Nelson, give me one.
You don't know. I feel like anything about
reptiles. Give me one reptile fact.
(45:38):
Well, he's saying nothing. It's completely quiet right now.
I don't hear lost. Can you hear Nelson?
No, no. So I thought it was my Internet
was gone. So Nelson has a ton of
background. Noise.
Is that what it is? Yeah.
Weird. When the background noise went
away, it got weirdly quiet. Right.
It was just like when my Internet dropped.
(45:59):
I thought for sure I was gone again.
But I'm like drunk on power right now, muting people,
thinking about editing. I'm going to do.
So Nelson, what were you saying?What was your what was your
reptile fact? For the record, Nelson knows a
lot about reptiles. But he's never seen an alligator
and he's been to Florida a bunchof times, so.
Yeah I know, seems pretty suck. Super upset.
I found. I even found tortoises which was
(46:22):
awesome. But no, no alligator.
Super upset about that. Boas will leave, will lay.
Actually the whole point is thatthey don't actually lay eggs.
They incubate them inside themselves and give birth to a
live litter. As opposed to pythons, one of
the biggest differentiators between them.
And Boas also mate for life and name their young.
(46:44):
Sure. And your fantasies?
And my snake fantasies. If you want to see alligators
Nelson, you need to go down to the Everglades.
There you can get some redneck to get you on a fan boat, really
anywhere, and they'll just driveyou around.
You'll see more alligators and you can shake a stick out.
(47:06):
It's a horrible way to see. Alligators, it's too loud.
See them on the banks? It's too loud.
I've I've done the fan boat tours, but there's a, there's
actually a wildlife drive not far from me, like 10 minutes
from me in Apopka, FL where you'll see like 100 Gators just
driving through there. It's insane.
And they're. All is that where you sent you
(47:26):
sent me the video of of driving through there.
I've been. I was so upset that I was there
so many times and never saw a single Gator super.
Go back and for the record, I saw 101 on the fan boat tour so.
I wanted to go to Gatorland, that would have been awesome.
Gatorland, I don't know, there'sjust too many and they're like
(47:47):
all on top of each other. For sure that.
Like it's cool for 10 minutes and then I feel like sort of
played. Although feeding them is fun and
trying to get them to fight overthe food even though I've never
seen them actually do it. But they they definitely like
back each other off from it and stuff.
That is cool. Learn something new everyday
(48:10):
Voss likes to watch alligators fight.
I saw a video. Last night of a tiger mom nudge
its cub into water and it fell in the water.
And then she like, frantically tried to get it out and she had
to like, reach down with her claws and like, pull it out.
But it was like hooked into things like skin.
It was pretty wild. Crazy.
It's crazy. Have you seen the video of the
(48:31):
black bear fighting the the two Gators in Florida?
No, it's amazing. It's a Florida Man thing.
It's crazy. Look it up.
There's not a lot of black bearsin Florida anymore, too, so
that's kind of. Depends who you ask.
That depends who you ask. We've been looking for one since
we moved down here and haven't found one.
But some people be like, they'reeverywhere.
(48:52):
And then every once in a while they'll be a post to one, just
like walking down Main Street downtown somewhere.
And it's like, why didn't I get to see that?
Someday. And hey, if it was a true
Florida Man video, you would have seen the Florida Man show
up and subdue the bear and the alligators and he's like, I'm
out of here. Got him.
(49:12):
True. All right.
Well, we said we're going to tryto keep this to 45 minutes.
We are at 48 minutes. I think we did it pretty much.
I. Think we did it?
We crushed it. Thanks for listening everybody.
(49:33):
Sit, stay, press play and let's begin.
Welcome to the pack, you are officially in.
Treats delicious shaping the game.
Mark your eyes, it's never the same.
Big dogs, small dogs, every kind.
If you love canine soon and rewind, laugh and learn level of
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name. Sit, stay, press play and let's
(49:54):
begin. Welcome to the pack you are
officially in. Sit.
Stay.
Sit, stay, press play and let's begin.
Welcome to the pack you are officially in.
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(00:31):
Today we're talking E collars, right?
Yes. And we're talking specifically
about that. There's a lot of trainers, and
obviously we're not going to usenames.
We're not looking to bash anybody, but there's a lot of
trainers that do what we'd wouldcall improper or lazy E collar
training. And then that bleeds down into
clients who people get an E collar in there and someone's
(00:54):
like, yeah, just do this with it.
And it leads to really, really lazy, improper training.
So we're talking about that today, right?
Definitely. OK, who's who's leading us off
and framing this or is that framed?
Did we frame it? And now we just, we just go?
I think that was the framing forsure.
Go or do I go or does lost go? I think you go.
(01:18):
No. You said you have a ton of stuff
you want to talk about, so I want to.
Hear it? Well, dude, yeah, I could talk
about this for the rest of the day.
I think we're going to try to limit this episode to an hour.
But I guess my thought is when Isee an E collar, I don't know if
I've ever looked at an E collar and said this is going to make
(01:38):
everything easier or faster. And I got distracted there.
My I needed to figure out how tomake my phone not send messages
to my computer. I've got a Mac.
And so now it's like just does stuff for my phone.
So as texts come in, I'm like reading them while we're doing a
podcast. It's kind of weird.
OK, so let me back up a little bit.
(02:00):
So I never look at it and say this is going to make my job way
easier or faster with the dog. And I think that might be kind
of the one of the big problems is that people use E collars as
the easy button. The way we use it is it doesn't
make training faster. It's another step.
We're doing all of our normal training.
We're teaching the dog everything like we normally do
and then layering the E collar on top of it.
(02:22):
And I think it's worth spending a little bit of time today of
why we find that valuable. But then there's some people it
seems like, and I want to make sure we don't get into or like
talk trash about there's some trainers that start with the E
collar and I think do a really good job with it.
I disagree. I think I like our way better,
but I don't think their ways badwhen they're at they're working
(02:43):
hard to train the dog on everything on the E collar and
teaching and you know, and teaching fairly.
What I don't like are the ones who are using the E collar a lot
of times just for bad behavior, but they're not walking the dog
more. They're not advocating exercise.
They're not advocating training techniques and calming
techniques. And it's just like, yeah, here's
the thing to stop your dog. That's what I really don't.
(03:07):
And really, I mean, like, I don't like that whole idea, the
whole concept, because it could go way past E college, right?
I mean, I, I see people using muscles that way all the time
of, Oh, my dog is barking. Let me put a muzzle on so that
it stops barking when again, it's lazy.
You're not teaching the dog anything and you're probably not
(03:29):
fulfilling, you know, like anything that the dog needs in
order to be calm enough to actually stop the barking.
You know, So really it's kind ofa, an attack on on that whole
concept as opposed to only the Ecollar side of it.
But E collars, in my opinion, you know, when you screw around
with E collars in a really, really bad way, there's just,
(03:50):
there's worse consequences, right?
You know, the dog could be really, really scared and then
all training is much harder because of that.
Yeah, I mean, for sure that's a big problem, right?
You can make everything worse. What I specifically don't like
is, I mean, we talk a lot in this podcast about how we handle
(04:11):
certain scenarios. So a client said, my dog's
barking out the window. We're talking about how to use
your voice, how to go over thereand stop them, how to calm them
down, how to use the leash, how to set it up.
There's so much that goes into it.
And every once in a while, you hear a trainer or like, we
talked to a new client who says,my previous trainer said this.
And they're like, yeah, he just said, put it on.
(04:31):
And if the dog barks at the window, correct them.
And now are you like, are you even thinking about good barks
versus bad barks? And is like, there's a, you
know, a strange man in your front yard and the dog's getting
the correction and you're not even paying attention to what's
happening. You're just stopping it.
And once again, you know, not exercising, not calming the dog
down. So that's what I really don't
(04:53):
like. And I mean, how often do you
guys hear some variation of that?
I hear that a lot. I hear it a decent amount, but I
I think that that's actually an excellent example of what you're
saying of because the dog was annoying, we tried to put a
Band-Aid on the situation being the E collar.
But because you're not actively in the training, you have no
(05:13):
idea what the dog is actually barking at, right?
And I mean, we see that tons where, Oh, it's probably a leaf
blowing. There's probably a dog out
there, you know, just kind of shut up and I'll stop you from
barking. However it is that I can, if
they even try. We have a lot of clients
obviously that just kind of livewith it, which is impressive to
some degree. But again, there's so much
(05:37):
information that you're actuallyjust leaving on the table and
never actually taken in right, Getting your dog to be able to
determine or, or discern rather what is appropriate to bark at
and what isn't. And that's, I mean, that's how
dogs communicate. But I get it.
It's annoying for sure if they're barking inappropriate
stuff, but tapping the button and just getting them to be
(05:59):
scared about barking or or maybethey're not even scared.
Let's let's not go to crazy extremes.
Maybe they stopped caring, you know, maybe they stopped caring
about the corrections because yeah, it sucks in the moment,
but it also feels really good tocontinue barking.
And now you think all training is worthless.
You know, nothing can stop this dog because I've tapped him on
(06:20):
this E collar and now it's the shelter when probably could have
got done on even a prong collar,right?
Or just appropriately teaching them on on an E collar.
Yeah, I hear that where people say, especially online comments
on our videos, like I've tried the new collar with my dog and
it doesn't matter how high it is, he won't listen.
(06:41):
And I've never even come close to encountering that in real
life. So.
When I hear that, my first thought is maybe the fit's not
good, right? Or maybe the battery's dead, you
don't have a good contact something.
But assuming the collar is working well, then I feel really
sad for that dog. And that to me that that means
you're not teaching the dog. And I've met a lot of new
clients that have done this where they've had it.
(07:02):
Someone's given them an E collarand they're like, if the dog
runs away, you know, push this button.
But if there's no teaching phase, like you just have to,
then pray and hope that when youdo that your dogs understands
that you're not happy and that then their decision, even if
they understand, which they might not, then you hope their
decision is to come back to you or stay in the yard versus
fleeing. Well, more of that than
(07:23):
anything. Yeah, absolutely.
It's hard to imagine that a normal dog is going to
determine, you know, first time that they get tapped on the
collar of, you know, Dad's mad or Mom's mad.
I should go back to them. The hope is that they see
something, think that that's what made it happen, and they
run back home as opposed to heading for the hills and now
(07:44):
you have to catch your dog. So a couple big picture things I
want to throw out. The 1st is there's obviously a
lot of people that want to ban Ecollars and they could easily
jump on a lot of this content and say like here's here's why,
here's people misusing them and you know, here's proof of it or
trainers talking about it. And, and my thought is people
(08:07):
misusing the tool doesn't have any, it shouldn't have any
bearing and whether or not the tool is banned because those
people are going to misuse another tool if they're lazy
trainers or inept trainers or meme trainers or whatever they
happen to be any colors are banned.
Well, they probably still just find one and use it.
Or they would just use a like, you know, a prong collar.
(08:27):
Or even scarier is if you say, well, ban those two, what are
they going to do then? Put a cloth collar on?
And if you're a lazy trainer andyou're trying to fix like a
picture of Rhodesian that likes to bark out the window by
somehow correcting them on a cloth collar, my gosh, talk
about danger for the dog. So to me, none of this leads
(08:48):
into maybe the tool should be banned.
That would make everything worseand not better.
I think as trainers, one of the most important things we should
be doing is having conversationsabout how to use all this stuff
properly and have less client new clients.
You know, I would love to not have new clients that come to me
with bad E collar training in their in their past, because
that's hard to overcome. Lost.
(09:09):
You look like you were going to say something.
I, I feel like both of you seem to have very strong opinions on
this and it seems like you both think that it's happening a lot,
at least from what Nelson said and from what you said, Covey,
it seems like you both feel strongly that this is happening
a lot. I guess one, how much do you
feel like it's actually happening?
(09:30):
Like is it one out of every 10 dogs that's trained on an E
collar or I guess tools in general?
To Nelson's point from earlier, it's not just E collars, it's
tools in general. How many are trained in a lazy
way on these tools that you're saying are sort of
inappropriate? And then I guess the other part
of it that keeps jumping in my head is then how much of it are
you saying is the trainer's fault versus the person working
(09:53):
with the dog, like the owner? Like do you think sometimes
they're just buying the tool andtrying to use it but don't know
what they're doing and that's what causes the error?
So I guess I'm just looking for some clarification.
I'll take my first shot at that.So I think the framing is wrong,
or at least that's not the framing that I typically use for
(10:15):
that. It's not one out of every single
dog or, you know, one out of 10 dogs.
The way I tend to look at it is someone who's interested in E
collars being the main pool, right?
So if an E collar comes into theequation now, how many dogs have
(10:35):
already tried to E collar or howmany owners rather or trainers
or anything like that versus owners that I'm the first one
kind of introducing them to the E collar.
And when you use numbers like that, that's where I really do
start to see it actually. I mean, it's fairly frequent
where just like you said, I think that's a big one where
(10:56):
because they couldn't talk to anybody or because they were
scared to ask questions before they got a trainer, they just
went out, bought a, bought an E collar, just started pressing
buttons and went from there. I think that that's pretty
common. But also I've I've seen a lot of
trainers where maybe it's tough to say.
I mean, everything is situation by situation.
(11:17):
Maybe they didn't do the training horribly and they just
explained it poorly to the owner, in which case the owner
was misusing the E collar or again, didn't talk about
fitment. And so then they just kind of
went up and up and up and eventually it fit properly and
made contact and the dog got scared.
I think that there's kind of a alot of different places where
(11:39):
this stuff can go wrong, You know, not not just there's a
million trainers out there that are trying to do the wrong thing
with the E collar. But I do acknowledge of course
that that is a thing. So I I wouldn't say that hey,
the majority of dogs in America are E collar trained poorly.
I would say out of the out of the people who are interested in
(12:02):
E collars for their dog, there'sa decent amount of them that are
poorly trained on their E collar.
Throw percentage at it. I'm just curious what you're
going to say. I would say 40% if an E collar
comes into comes into conversation with a client, I
(12:22):
would say I'm still the introduction for the majority of
of those clients, but there's a a very, very big amount that
already have one, have already had a trainer try and use one or
have just whatever. But I I also agree that you
know, a lot of it isn't just trainers doing it wrong
(12:46):
necessarily, but could very verywell be.
I would say a good amount is just owners not knowing who to
talk to, not knowing what answers to trust, buying an E
collar and just pressing buttons.
Does that percentage change based off of what kind of E
collar you're talking about? Like if it's an Amazon brand one
versus like a mini IQ versus a dog truck like does, is it a
(13:08):
shifting scale? There's no doubt in my mind that
if if they already have an E collar and they come out with a
mini educator and E collars technologies mini educator,
there's a way better chance thatthey didn't butcher the training
or at least have had a trainer use the E collar with their dog.
(13:30):
Because most people, most peoplewant to try things with cheap
alternatives and just see if they like it or if it works for
their dog or whatever the case may be.
And those are always the worst. I mean, they're just, they're
just the worst wholesale. What I tell people is, you know,
those are not good for teaching in the slightest.
(13:51):
And so you're trying it for the first time with a very, very bad
outcome being the majority of time or rather being the most
likely scenario. And so again, if they have a
cheap one, there's a good chancethat a trainer wasn't using,
wasn't using it with them, that they just, you know, bought it
and tried it. And there's probably going to be
(14:13):
some repairs having to happen with their dog before we're
ready to try the E collar again.So cover, what do you think of
all that? And I agree with what Nelson
said, if the if the client new client pulls out a mini educator
I feel much better than if they pull out some Amazon brand that
sells for like 60 bucks because that one they just put on and
(14:36):
pushed buttons basically guaranteed.
Almost guaranteed for sure. And what, what I think is hard
with E collars is that they're so easy to misuse.
And I don't think that's a problem with the tool.
It's just, it is what it is. It, it can like think what I
mean by that is if you have, if your neighbor says, oh, your dog
(14:56):
is, you know, running and bark into the fence line when they do
that, put a prong collar on him with a little short leash.
When they do that, go over thereand grab that and like give him
a hard tug and tell him no. So I I'm not saying that's what
I would advocate like that. Maybe that's what their neighbor
says. Well, they're not going to do
that. Like they're, they're not going
to go out in their yard most people and chase their dog down
and get the dog. I can just give a correction,
(15:18):
right? So they're probably going to do
nothing. If their neighbor says Hey, like
use an E collar and like put it on, when he does that, just push
the button and if it doesn't work, turn it up a little bit.
That to me is the problem because people will actually do
that because it's so easy. And so therein lies the problem
to me is that to use it wrong ispretty simple.
(15:39):
I very rarely have someone usinga prong in a what I would call
egregious manner. Not just not that it couldn't be
used that way, but like for a prong to use it really wrong,
like what are they going to do? Put it on and yank really,
really hard? That takes a person who wants to
do harm as a or like it is just has a temper or whatever with
the E collar just so easy to accidentally misuse.
(16:02):
Which is why I think it's so important that people get some
training on on how to use it properly because it does
nothing. Obviously it's bad for that dog,
but it's also bad for E collars in general.
Each time someone uses 1 and either says it made my dog
scared or didn't work or whatever, it just makes it you
know it harms the reputation of the tool when it's being applied
improperly. Is your percentage around the
(16:25):
same place like you think 40%? No, I would say lower, but I'm
just guessing. I've never tracked this or
thought about it. So I would say 10 or 20%.
But I'm just if you asked me that same question in six
months, I have no idea what I would say because we're talking
specifically about client comes to me and has an interest in an
E collar and we're talking aboutif they've used one before and
(16:48):
then used it improperly. Yeah, if they say I've used one
before, like if it's not been our client, I'd say 90% chance
I'm going to be not loving the method, but you know, not
necessarily hating it. And then 5050 that I'm going to
hate the method. There's, you know, that 40%
maybe where they train differently, but I look at them
(17:10):
like it's not bad training, it'sjust different than how I would
do it and I want to tweak it, but there's a 50% chance that
I'm going to really be unhappy with what they did.
Doesn't that mean that there's 10% of just Gray area?
Yeah, I mean, that's what happens when you make up numbers
on the fly. It's just 10%.
(17:30):
I don't, I don't actually know. I want to get back to what you
were saying about. Is talking about it bad for the
industry or just bad for the dogcommunity as a whole?
Because it's not just dog training community, you know, we
obviously train regular people. So I think quite the opposite of
(17:54):
people who who's concerned with you should keep it, you know,
quiet or, or else people are going to use this as ammunition
against us. I think a lot of the problems
really do come down to the fact that it's if we're not calling
those people out, if we are not monitoring ourselves as the
(18:15):
community or, you know, fixing and wedding out all of the
problems as the community itself, that's worse.
And you're going to give more opportunities for people to jump
on that kind of stuff as opposedto saying, hey, we agree with
you, that's bad, that's crap, weshouldn't be doing that.
Let's work together to to make sure that that doesn't happen.
(18:37):
Whether you like the E collar tool or not, I agree with you
that that's shit and that's not how we should be using it.
But I also think just and I'm sure I've said this in like
1,000,000 episodes already, right?
But talking about it is the biggest way to change that.
I think a lot of people do fail to find good advice, or at least
(18:59):
just kind of like fail to find consistent advice.
And they're scared to go to a PetSmart or to a pet store
because they'll get crucified right there for even asking
questions. And therefore, yeah, do you
start to get these people who insecret go buy an E collar?
Just try tapping a couple of buttons, seeing what happens and
never actually talking to someone about it, or at least
(19:22):
not being able to find the information on YouTube.
Obviously, YouTube has gotten a lot better about that kind of
situational. A lot of our, a lot of the
trainers that do use them have been making a lot of videos.
But when I first started, you know that it was kind of hard to
find. There's only a couple of people.
Yeah. And when what you said about
talking about it is to me, it's a lot like just what we've
(19:46):
talked about with pit bulls in general.
Where I don't dislike pits in the slightest, people still
attack me when I say anything negative about them.
Like the fact that a pit is morelikely to kill you than a
golden. Like it just is statistically
like no question. That doesn't mean pits are bad.
And then if we hide that, you know, if we hide the fact that a
(20:07):
pit bull is more likely to kill you than a golden, well then
that just means. You know, it's the problem is
going to be exasperated, you're going to have more poor
socializing, more poor training.And then if the problem is still
there, it's going to get worse. And I think it's the same with E
collars, right? Like obviously I'm not anti E
collar, but if you hide from theissue and you don't want to talk
about it because maybe someone could take that out of context
(20:28):
while you're just being weak at that point and hiding from a
real problem. Exactly.
And then the problem is going toget worse and you're still going
to have, if the, if you believe there's a problem that dogs are
being trained improperly than orbeing mistreated, well, that's
going to continue. And that's a pretty shitty thing
to allow. So to me, I think, I think these
conversations have to be had. I would say I'd like to sit,
(20:52):
maybe pivot a little bit to things that would be useful.
I know most of the people that listen are trainers and I'm sure
trainers hearing this can resonate with all of this.
A client listening might be thinking like, OK, well, give me
some more examples. And we talked about one a couple
earlier, but overall, if you don't have a way to stop your
(21:14):
dog from doing something or get them to do something without any
collar, that's a big deal in my opinion.
So there has to be a verbal or on leash or physical corollary.
I can't think of any example that I wouldn't want that.
So examples would be like if you're using it for come, well,
I believe you need a correction for come without the E collar,
(21:37):
which means they've already learned that first and you have
something to do when the E collar is not on.
Same with jumping on people. Same with stealing food.
You have to have an off leisure,I'm sorry, an on leisure
physical corollary. If you don't, I'd say pretty
hard line that you're doing it wrong.
There needs to be that and then you can determine which is more
appropriate in this particular scenario.
(21:59):
And maybe, but you also need something to do with the E
collar is not on. So your dog doesn't live their
life with an E collar. But honestly, the most important
part, and I've had this conversation with some what
really well known E collar trainers that ones that like to
start with E collar on day one. My thought when I when I talk to
them is your way sounds fair. It doesn't sound mean like
(22:19):
they're, you know, they're putting a lot of effort into it,
but the client is never learningthe skills to go up and get the
dog. And if they aren't, to me that's
kind of problematic. When do they learn that?
When does the client learn how to go manage their dog when the
E collar is not on? When do they teach the dog?
When I show this body language. You should chill out and don't
(22:41):
run like you just need to wait there for a second while I come
over you. They only learn that through
time and by the person developing muscle memory.
So that's my biggest issue with training that I don't consider
improper or bad but just go intothe E collar.
And my opinion too early is thatyou as a handler or owner don't
develop all those physical skills.
(23:02):
I think that that's fair for sure.
Yeah, absolutely. Any any pushback or scenarios
you think I'm missing with my statement of there's nothing
that should you should do with an E collar that doesn't have a
physical corollary? Anything you can think of?
There's not a perfect example. There's a difference in how you
might want to do it. And So what I mean by that is,
(23:25):
you know, when you first start using E collars, this is for
anyone that doesn't know, you know, a big concern is getting
your dog to understand that you are in control of the collar and
the dog is in control of their own behaviors, which you know,
can activate the collar. But there are also times where
(23:46):
you can definitely utilize the fear of something.
I call it a superstition. A lot of people will call it a
superstition. If your dog is likely to touch
or to hop a fence or something like that.
There's a lot of times where youmight go a little higher.
That way you can tap them when they jump on the fence and then
(24:08):
they're like, oh man, that that sucked.
The fence is scary and I'll never touch it ever again.
Similar concept to the counter. I don't jump up for food anymore
because the one time I did it, Itook this crazy correction and
that was the scariest thing where I, I'm just scared of the
countertop, you know, from now on.
(24:29):
There's times where that could be useful.
There's also a very, very easy way to mess that up for new
people. In which case maybe that's not
what we should be kind of like promoting as unless you're
working with a trainer. But I definitely did want to
throw that out there because I think a lot of people would.
So I'd like to rephrase that briefly because I think that's a
(24:50):
really good point. I mean, your point, if I'm
understanding you correctly, is that there are a few times you'd
purposely want to create a superstitious behavior.
Yeah. And so examples I could think of
would be if you had a pool and you never, ever wanted your dog
in it, you're afraid they're going to drown when they go in
the pool. You don't want to teach them to
swim for whatever reason. Maybe they physically can't, I
(25:13):
don't know. So you put an E collar on it an
appropriate level, but they walkover, they touch their nose to
it or their paw and they get a correction and you don't say
anything. And their assumption is it was
that pool and done well. And if you do it in an elegant
fashion with a thinking it through and putting a lot of
effort into it, you could end upwith a dog who is not
(25:34):
traumatized but knows like the pool is basically like an
electric fence. You've seen a, we've all seen a
dog probably touch an electric fence like cattle fence or
something like a horse fence, something like that.
They remember and it doesn't hurt them, you know, but they
real quickly it happens and theyremember it for life.
So I guess yes, there are times then very limited where we
purposely want that superstitious behavior and we
(25:56):
don't want to have to be involved.
We don't want to be have to be outside to tell the dog right?
Don't go in the pool. If I'm not mistaken, I think
that's a lot of what the rattlesnake trainer was doing
right when he snake trains thosedogs.
It's a similar concept of, hey, when I smell this scent, it's
likely going to hurt and I should get out of there.
Now I, I do, I recognize that I said hi or hurt and you said an
(26:21):
appropriate level. You know, what's high is
whatever's high for the dog. You know, that doesn't mean turn
the collar all the way up because you might really
traumatize, you know, a softer dog or something like that.
So although appropriate number is probably the better way to
put it, you know when I say higher or you know when I say
(26:43):
high level or or hurt the dog orwhatever the case may be, you
are trying to get them to be uncomfortable with whatever,
whatever it is that they're doing, touching the fence,
jumping on the counter, smellingthe snake, but that's dependent
on the individual dock. Yeah.
And just to maybe throw this outthere, we don't edit these
podcasts at all. We don't really cut anything or
(27:04):
do anything. I think we should.
And I should say something like,you know, there's very few times
that you would want to use an E collar without, without A
physical corollary too, I can think of would be the pool to
create a superstitious behavior.And maybe I'll throw something
else out there real smart. I'm like Nelson, what do you
think? And then everyone will be like,
(27:25):
dude, that Covey guy, he, he's smart.
And he's like, I didn't think about that.
That's good. I'm going to redo my percentages
too. I'm going to go back.
You go, but I'll do a terrible job.
It'll be like edited in with a different voice.
Like I think it's 20. 20%. Dude, Vloss, why do you keep
coming in and out of this car? What are you doing over there?
(27:45):
It's like a little circus. It's crazy.
The Internet just keeps on dropping.
So I apologize. I'll keep.
Reordering it, it reorders whereeverybody is.
So then I'm like frantically looking back and forth.
It's confusing. It's when it happens, everything
just goes silent. So like in my headphones, it's
not just you guys talking, but there's all the background noise
(28:07):
and everything and it just like goes so silent and it it's
really creepy when it happens. I bet.
Scary. I'm sorry.
I'm sorry to everybody. All right, Nelson, do you want
to throw out an example? I, I think it'd be nice to have
another example of things you see, like especially for clients
listening who might be wonderinglike, oh crap, am I making these
(28:30):
mistakes they're talking about? And so far we haven't given that
many examples. Could you give another example
of a way you've seen an E color used inside?
Doesn't have to be like a, you know, insane example, but
something you've seen that you don't care for, that you would
do a different way. Yeah, bark colors, you know,
it's a type of E collar. It's not exactly the same thing.
(28:50):
But one of the things that I really don't like about bark
collars is, again, it doesn't teach the owner how to stop it
themselves with either their presence or being able to calm
the dog down. Some dogs, especially the first
time that you use it, really getfreaked out because they they
don't now they're worried about the correction.
(29:11):
So they bark more and that, you know, you kind of get into that
cycle, but that's a very, very common one that I've, I, I got
to be honest, I, I, it's been going down.
I haven't seen as many bark collars, but I've seen enough
that, that, that always sticks with me.
But bark collars to me is, is a big one where I would rather
(29:32):
have a remote. I would rather control the
correction. And again, I'd rather fix it
with a leash and collar 1st and then just kind of finish the
training off with an E collar asopposed to just trying to get
the behavior to go away with theE coli.
So with saying that great example, there's probably some.
I was just reading an article about a new AI based bark
(29:56):
collar. It didn't actually have a brand
in it, which is sort of weird, but it was talking about how you
know, it not only monitors the bark, what the actual noise is,
but it also is monitoring heart rate and stuff like that.
So you'd probably be really against AI bark collars just
doing their thing, huh? Yes, absolutely.
Because being AI it would literally just shock your dog
(30:18):
100 times and you'd be like dudewhy did you do that caller?
And like that's a good point, sorry about that.
I won't randomly shock your dog ever again.
Thanks for bringing that up. It'll be ChatGPT able to correct
your dog. You guys hate AII do hate AI.
I'm not going to lie to you. Hi everyone.
(30:38):
This is Jason Ferguson, and I'm the President of the
International Association of Canine Professionals.
Our organization is focused on three pillars, education,
certification, and legislation. What that means is we help
educate our members to ensure that they're the best dog
trainers they can be. We also offer certification so
that clients know that the trainers are true professional.
(30:59):
Our legislative efforts are focused on ensuring that
trainers have the freedom to choose the tools and techniques
that work best for the dogs and clients that they work with.
Join the ICP today for yourself and to protect the industry.
Our friends on the Balance Dog Training podcast support the ICP
and we hope you will as well. Something I want to throw out is
(31:23):
that I do want to give an example of how an E collar could
be used by another trainer without a physical corollary.
This is not how I would do it, but it could be done in a good
fashion. So let's talk.
I talk about the the front window, a dog that's barking out
the window. I don't see a print.
Now if your answer, I guess let me give you a three options.
(31:43):
If your answer, your trainer's told you or what you're doing is
just dog does something I don't like, I push the button and tell
him no and I then I say, what are your other options?
If that's your other only option, I'd say you're doing it
wrong. Hard and fast rule.
That's not good. You need calming techniques.
What if the dog's not doing well?
Are you just going to crank it up until they do?
That's a problem. You have to have a calming
technique and if you just boughtan E collar and you're pushing
(32:06):
the button, you obviously don't have one of those.
I would, if you were using the Ecollar, I would layer it in
after you've done the three-stepprocess that we talked about in
a few episodes ago. So now it's like the easiest
thing ever. You're correcting at a low
level. If the dog really didn't listen,
you would right away look him like that's weird.
He's too worked up. Maybe I should go over and clip
a, you know, a lead to him and call him down for a minute.
(32:28):
Or maybe I need to use my brain and look out the window and see
like he's really crazy right now.
Maybe there's something I shouldbe aware of.
And it turns out there's like a raccoon outside your window.
And I would think you'd give your dog a little more leeway
for barking at a raccoon a foot from your window then, you know,
someone walking on the street 100 yards away.
So I think that's important. But a way this could be done is
(32:50):
there are trainers that are very, I'll say heavy on the E
collar, but I don't mean heavy-handed like hurting the
dog as we use it a lot where youcould not have a physical
corollary. I still don't love it, but it
could be tap on the E collar andsay leave it and then your
calming technique, if you need it is come or heal and the dog
comes over to you. Or maybe you then sit and then
(33:12):
you put them into a place or a down stay.
So there are ways that this could be explained by a good
trainer that I could hear and say like, OK, you don't have a
physical corollary, You're certainly not mistreating the
dog. And I agree that would work.
And it is a like a viable methodof training.
My push back there would just belike what happens when the
collar's battery is dead or theydon't have it on that?
(33:35):
That would be my push back, which I think is relevant and
it's something to think about. They said my clients are super
good at just they charge it every night, put it on every day
and that's the, you know how life goes and fine.
So I just want to make it clear,I think there's ways you could
do this that are good training without a major problem or flaw.
But the downside would be you'rethen very reliant on the E
(33:57):
collar, which I don't. I I guess I want to throw out
there that I'm very pro E collar.
I'm, you know, I've, I will always have E collar trained
dogs. It just works for my lifestyle.
And I, I tell all of my clients that, you know, because it'll
again, a lot of the times we'll have clients who are kind.
Of like we have said that at thebeginning of the episode I
(34:19):
assumed it was implied, but maybe this is a good caveat.
Just in Case No one's seen our past episodes, right?
Like, listen, I'm not talking crap about E collars as a tool.
I think that there's a lot of people that kind of mess it up,
you know, both trainers and owners.
Very very pro E collar myself. I guess I want to then throw two
(34:39):
things there. I'm of course the same and my
reasons would be 1 is very oftenthe E collar is safer than other
options. I was helping someone the other
day the first time meeting they're working with the dog
with a pit mix. Super nice dog, but she's
ludicrous on the come command like gets a wild hair up her ass
and it is like run in circles and running away from you.
(35:00):
And I look at like that dog if you're not good in the long line
is going to hurt itself. So we we moved on to a wide
cloth collar Immediately I was like, you cannot train this dog
on a prong running like that. And I look at that dog, I'm
like, we need to fix this long line stuff.
But this dog would benefit from an E collar and there's no way
they're going to hurt themselves.
And I do worry even on a cloth collar, that dog starts zipping
(35:24):
around like it's prone to do andwraps around a tree on a long
line full speed, even on the cloth collar, even on a hardness
like that dog could easily hurt itself.
So there's times it's obviously great for safety.
And then the other one would be you can communicate with your
dog when they're basically anywhere.
And I've told my story, but of having a mastiff that was too
far away to hear me because the wind was blowing in a, you know,
(35:46):
a field of crops and it like thecrops are down but couldn't
hear. He started chasing a deer and I
couldn't get him back until he finally had visual on me.
And that was really scary. It was my own dog and the dog
who'd never disobeyed, but he couldn't hear me.
So huge E collar proponent for that reason right there.
Sometimes they're 50 yards away,the winds blowing, another dog
(36:06):
is barking in their face. They're not going to hear you
calling to them. So if you're going to have your
dog off leash in an unfenced area, I think it's crucial.
So you guys have talked a lot about clients struggling with
using an E collar and I think that makes this the perfect time
for our 62nd question. Oh, that was smooth.
(36:27):
I like to. That is smooth from a tech
standpoint. I'm not sure I can make a phone
call today. So we're just, it's just off.
We're not doing it. Well, we could.
Nelson could use a funny voice. Like you could ask him and he
(36:47):
could. What accents can you do, Nelson?
Mexican American, are you? Are you ready?
Do you want me to ask? Well.
No, let's figure this out. I I've never heard you speak in
a Mexican accent. Is it pretty legit?
Oi bato, what's up mang? I feel like that's pretty legit.
(37:12):
I would respond to that. I anyway, like I know exactly
who's talking to me. Anyone who's listening to this
episode that doesn't know that you're Hispanic is going to be
immediately just destroying you.Have like cancelled.
What else you got? Dude?
(37:32):
I spent some time the other night listening to British
accents and showing them to my kids.
Oh my gosh, there there are somethat are impossible to
understand. For sure.
Uh huh. I can say aluminium.
That's British. That is how they that's how they
say it. Say what?
Aluminium. I have no idea what that.
(37:54):
Means I think you were slightly off that time.
You were you were closer the first time.
Aluminium. Aluminium.
Aluminium I think is how they say.
It what word is this? Aluminum.
Aluminum, of course. Dude, I heard one, I forget what
it was, and it was this guy talking outside of a soccer
match and he was like saying stuff like I could only pick up
(38:16):
like one word out of 20. I was like, I know that word.
It was all English. It was crazy.
One of my I could say oy wanker.That's isn't that an Aussie not
in? English, I don't know.
Aren't they really the same thing though?
They're pretty close but different for sure.
I just like basil instead of basil.
Basil. Basil, I have heard that.
Well, that's British baking willteach you those real quick.
(38:40):
Oh, hey, I've got it for you. I googled it.
I don't know how to pronounce it.
Scouse, Scouse. Scouse.
You anyone listening? You want to hear some wild
English accents? Look that up.
It is like I you almost can't tell you speaking English when
people are speaking. And then every once we'll hear
like I, I think I understand more Spanish than I do someone
(39:02):
speaking that. Muy Mao.
All right, so. You're going to ask Nelson and
he's going to answer in an accent.
Or is that too much for you? Nelson, do you have to do?
I mean, I no, that's going to beway too much.
Can you do Queens? English.
Both. I think I could do that.
(39:24):
I only know that from Jurassic World.
That's me too, SO. Queens English girl.
All right, So you're just going to do standard, standard Elgin
English? I'm going to try and do Queens
English, we'll see how I do. OK, ready?
What's the biggest mistake you see owners make when they first
(39:46):
start using an E collar? They don't charge the E collar
the first time. Oh no, you know what?
Actually better better than that.
They don't. Oh, maybe that was bad, because
that was the wrong. No, all of that was bad.
Better than that. Better than that is a bad fit #1
(40:11):
answer. Bad fit. #2. #2 is not charging.
You still have 30 seconds #3. So. #3 is not having the remote
on the body. That was the best I think.
Yeah, you left it on over there on the coffee table.
On the tea table #4 #4 is. Oh, that's, I mean, those are
(40:37):
the three most common. That's good #4 would be I didn't
turn it on. Silly me.
That's all I got. I got.
One more. Come on, give us one more.
This is amazing. OK #5 would be I hit the wrong
button? Oh God, that one's terrible.
(40:57):
I thought I hit the vibrate. It turns out it was the wrong
button. Great.
Work. Great work, Nelson.
For the record, Voss, don't try to destroy us convents.
I was loving that. And you said it wasn't.
It was amazing. And this is probably going to be
our best episode ever because ofthat.
That right there was super solid.
(41:18):
I got. I got to get better at that.
I think there's at least three British people that just hit
unsubscribe. They're commenting right now.
They're like, I'm really pissed.We actually do have a decent
number of followers in the UK, so we'll see what happens from
that. Maybe they'll like it.
(41:39):
It's all in good fun. All in good jest?
Yep. Not all in jest.
I don't think it's all in good jest.
I think it's. All in jest.
Yeah, there you go. OK, well, I think it's a good
answer. I mean, there's so many of those
mistakes people make with an E collar and we.
Went what would what would be one that I didn't say quick.
(42:00):
I don't know about that, but thenot charging is definitely what
is definitely the number one. Give me the question having
failed out. What was the question?
It was another example that I did not say no.
No, no. But the original question from
Voss. Oh, what's the biggest mistake
you see owners make when they first start using an E collar?
(42:25):
I find a lot that are very hesitant to correct.
Oh, definitely. And that's one of the reasons I
have them all tried on their arm, because I want them to know
what it feels like. My thought is if you're not
comfortable using it, then you shouldn't be using it yet.
So if you're not stoled on it being a fair tool for your dog,
(42:47):
then you just you shouldn't haveit on and like you putting it on
and not really using it. Well now I've got another.
I do not like it all. I'm going to I'm not going to
use the word hate. I do not like using E collars as
a threat like the the pager as athreat.
Yes, that's a good one. And I am so very clear to
clients to never do it. And there's still some that I
(43:08):
work with that do. And I just think you're losing
out on so much of the amazing functionality of an E collar
where your pager is no longer a positive and it's just a threat.
You don't need that. The stem can correct them very
at a very low level and you can turn it up if needed.
And let's keep that vibration being a positive, happy thing.
(43:29):
I think that was a super solid one.
I was. I'm surprised I missed that one.
That was a very, very good answer.
All now that I'm going to edit all kinds of stuff, I'm going to
cut out all my Hemming and hawing.
First of all, let me hear the question again and I'm just
going to instantly fire that oneoff.
There you go, this. Is going to be good.
This episode is going to be 7 minutes when I'm done with it.
(43:50):
It's going to be so good. I don't know if you were on when
I was saying that, but I mentioned how we never edit the
episodes and that I'm going to edit this one to just make
myself sound super smart. That'd be good, you might want
to edit it because of me dropping every two seconds.
I don't think so. I think we'll leave it in there
just coming and going because the the way it switches cameras,
(44:12):
you won't even be able to know. People won't, yeah, people won't
even know. They'll just be like he was just
quiet for a while. And now they will.
And we don't hide anything from viewers and listeners, so I want
them to know that your Internet sucks.
Your Internet. Certainly does today, without a
doubt. So it happens when you live in
Florida Hurricanes. We yeah, we're supposed to.
(44:34):
We should be having a hurricane right now.
So really, we no, no, it turned real.
Floridians didn't even worry about it.
Voss is just worried about another Boa constrictor ripping
his fiber optic line out from the pole and then his internet's
down. If I was standing 5 feet away
(44:54):
from me, I'd strike you in your throat.
Me. Yeah, it's not a boa
constrictor, you fool. It's a Python.
Burmese Python, yeah. We don't have, we don't have a
Python. We'd probably be more likely to
have a boa here than a Python. Yeah, somebody just released.
Yeah, somebody just released it.And they and they can still
(45:17):
thrive. The pythons are further South,
so they haven't found one, but they wouldn't be able to breed.
They haven't found one in the summer north too.
They haven't found one this far north.
Interesting. Nelson, give me one.
You don't know. I feel like anything about
reptiles. Give me one reptile fact.
(45:38):
Well, he's saying nothing. It's completely quiet right now.
I don't hear lost. Can you hear Nelson?
No, no. So I thought it was my Internet
was gone. So Nelson has a ton of
background. Noise.
Is that what it is? Yeah.
Weird. When the background noise went
away, it got weirdly quiet. Right.
It was just like when my Internet dropped.
(45:59):
I thought for sure I was gone again.
But I'm like drunk on power right now, muting people,
thinking about editing. I'm going to do.
So Nelson, what were you saying?What was your what was your
reptile fact? For the record, Nelson knows a
lot about reptiles. But he's never seen an alligator
and he's been to Florida a bunchof times, so.
Yeah I know, seems pretty suck. Super upset.
I found. I even found tortoises which was
(46:22):
awesome. But no, no alligator.
Super upset about that. Boas will leave, will lay.
Actually the whole point is thatthey don't actually lay eggs.
They incubate them inside themselves and give birth to a
live litter. As opposed to pythons, one of
the biggest differentiators between them.
And Boas also mate for life and name their young.
(46:44):
Sure. And your fantasies?
And my snake fantasies. If you want to see alligators
Nelson, you need to go down to the Everglades.
There you can get some redneck to get you on a fan boat, really
anywhere, and they'll just driveyou around.
You'll see more alligators and you can shake a stick out.
(47:06):
It's a horrible way to see. Alligators, it's too loud.
See them on the banks? It's too loud.
I've I've done the fan boat tours, but there's a, there's
actually a wildlife drive not far from me, like 10 minutes
from me in Apopka, FL where you'll see like 100 Gators just
driving through there. It's insane.
And they're. All is that where you sent you
(47:26):
sent me the video of of driving through there.
I've been. I was so upset that I was there
so many times and never saw a single Gator super.
Go back and for the record, I saw 101 on the fan boat tour so.
I wanted to go to Gatorland, that would have been awesome.
Gatorland, I don't know, there'sjust too many and they're like
(47:47):
all on top of each other. For sure that.
Like it's cool for 10 minutes and then I feel like sort of
played. Although feeding them is fun and
trying to get them to fight overthe food even though I've never
seen them actually do it. But they they definitely like
back each other off from it and stuff.
That is cool. Learn something new everyday
(48:10):
Voss likes to watch alligators fight.
I saw a video. Last night of a tiger mom nudge
its cub into water and it fell in the water.
And then she like, frantically tried to get it out and she had
to like, reach down with her claws and like, pull it out.
But it was like hooked into things like skin.
It was pretty wild. Crazy.
It's crazy. Have you seen the video of the
(48:31):
black bear fighting the the two Gators in Florida?
No, it's amazing. It's a Florida Man thing.
It's crazy. Look it up.
There's not a lot of black bearsin Florida anymore, too, so
that's kind of. Depends who you ask.
That depends who you ask. We've been looking for one since
we moved down here and haven't found one.
But some people be like, they'reeverywhere.
(48:52):
And then every once in a while they'll be a post to one, just
like walking down Main Street downtown somewhere.
And it's like, why didn't I get to see that?
Someday. And hey, if it was a true
Florida Man video, you would have seen the Florida Man show
up and subdue the bear and the alligators and he's like, I'm
out of here. Got him.
(49:12):
True. All right.
Well, we said we're going to tryto keep this to 45 minutes.
We are at 48 minutes. I think we did it pretty much.
I. Think we did it?
We crushed it. Thanks for listening everybody.
(49:33):
Sit, stay, press play and let's begin.
Welcome to the pack, you are officially in.
Treats delicious shaping the game.
Mark your eyes, it's never the same.
Big dogs, small dogs, every kind.
If you love canine soon and rewind, laugh and learn level of
your game. Suburban canine, remember the
name. Sit, stay, press play and let's
(49:54):
begin. Welcome to the pack you are
officially in. Sit.
Stay.
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