February 13, 2025 • 13 mins
In this thought-provoking episode of Balancing Life’s Issues, Wendy Wollner sits down with Ruchi Jalla, a leader in Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI), to explore the challenges and triumphs of integrating DEI into organizational culture, particularly in the healthcare sector.
Ruchi shares her personal journey into DEI, the misconceptions that often lead to resistance, and the resilience required to push forward in a politically charged climate. She highlights why DEI is essential for both business success and societal progress, emphasizing that the work must continue despite setbacks.
From tackling healthcare disparities to navigating polarized conversations, this episode delivers powerful insights, practical strategies, and a message of hope for anyone committed to making workplaces and communities more inclusive.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:19):
Welcome to Balancing Life's Issues, the podcast show
that tells it like it is. No fluff,
no sugarcoating,
just some real talk about mental health, workplace
culture, caregiving.
Whether you're here to learn, vent, or just
nod, we've got you covered. We're diving into
messy, unbelievable,
frustrating, and downright weird parts of diversity, equity,
(00:41):
and inclusion today with insights that actually matter.
No corporate buzzwords here. No boring lectures. Just
straight up bold, unfiltered conversations
that hit where they need to. So expect
some expert guests, some real stories, and maybe
a few hot takes that'll make you rethink
everything.
Buckle up. This is not your average podcast.
(01:03):
It's the one you didn't know you need.
Let's get into it.
Welcome to Ruchi Jala and a great conversation
about DEI.
Ruchi comes to us after having just left
as a chief diversity, equity, inclusion officer at
Element Health
and decades of experience
(01:24):
in the DEI.
So thank you today for sharing all of
your wisdom and your past corporate experience.
So,
Mucci, from a really high level, tell me
tell me what you think of DEI.
I believe that there is a real business
value and impact
to DEI when done right, and that's sort
(01:46):
of the
asterisk when done right.
And it is amazing, Ruchi, because you come
from both worlds. Right?
So,
if let's take a step back for a
minute
and just acknowledge
that it was last year, not that long
ago, where the CEO of UnitedHealthcare
was assassinated.
That was prior to President Trump coming in.
(02:08):
So you come from the health care industry.
That was a shocking fact that 40% of
Americans
actually thought that was a good thing. So
just on that, just from your years of
experience with elephants, what words of wisdom do
you have about that?
Well, I'll tell you it was,
the disparities in health care were what brought
me to the organization in the first place.
(02:29):
I mean, I joined Elevance Health in
2021,
really
because what I saw in COVID was astounding
in terms of the the disparate impact to
certain communities, black and brown communities across the
country. But, you know, from a socioeconomic
standpoint,
it affects people of all backgrounds. And just
(02:51):
to see that,
you know, for for all of the good
that we were doing to get the the
vaccines out and to get care where we
knew we were still missing huge gaps of
people.
And when I joined this organization,
it was about health equity. It was about
understanding
that,
everyone has the right to to health care.
(03:12):
And,
and I believed that. And so,
that comes from somewhere. It comes from people
feeling like,
they just can't get ahead, that they just
can't get a fair shot. And so I
understand. I don't agree with, but I understand
that anger.
So we had that horrific
shooting.
We have this horrible and then
(03:35):
we have President Trump. It wouldn't be a
really good conversation without DI for you to
say first,
as quickly as short, like, do you still
believe in DI?
Even where we are today, but why? Sell
sell so let's pretend I'm the worst critic.
Right? It doesn't work. I don't know. It's
it's favoritism.
Like, all the horrible things that you have
(03:56):
heard,
convince me that YDEI should still exist.
Yeah. You know, happy to. I you know,
one one thing I'll say is the the
resistance is not new.
Might be repackaged in a certain way, but
it's not new.
There are,
misperceptions
about what DEI is and what it isn't.
So the first thing that we do is
(04:16):
look at, you know, break down these words,
diversity, which means difference,
uniqueness.
Everyone
has something different about them, and therefore,
diversity means including,
all of those differences.
Equity is looking at fairness.
You know, fairness is something that everyone should
(04:38):
strive to achieve. And then inclusion.
Does everyone feel like they belong?
All all of those things in concept are
things that people can generally
agree on. They can generally agree on. Where
the difference comes in
is feeling like it's a zero sum game.
If you win,
I lose.
(04:59):
Right? And that's not the intent. That is
not the intent, nor is it the outcome
of diversity, equity and inclusion. And so what
we look at are things that,
have been brought forward
by really good strategies around DEI.
Accessibility is a word that we didn't talk
about in this sort of acronym.
But you think about how many times you
go through an airport and there's closed captioning
(05:21):
on, where do you think that came from?
It wasn't, you know, in terms of understanding,
you know, that this person is gonna get
something and this person isn't. It is how
do we bring people to the same level
so that everyone has access to the same
opportunities?
And in this case, it is I may
not be able to hear what's happening, but
now I can read it because those senses
(05:41):
are available to me.
Flexible,
flexible leave and and policies. You know, we're
we're in this debate, you know, before we've
been talking about these executive orders about return
to office.
Return to office at its core is, you
know, if we look at the outcome of
what you're trying to work on, do the
means of production really matter? Does it matter
(06:01):
where I do this work as long as
the outcome
is achieved? That's what DEI looks at. It
looks at, you know, where might be different
ways, different thoughts and perspectives,
and
perspectives, different backgrounds in order to get You're
you're having this very nice conversation that makes
perfect sense, right? Now let's just stop for
a second and say within minutes of people
(06:22):
dying in a plane crash,
the president of Our United States gets up
and says, Well, we know who's to blame.
DEI.
That's the world we're living in today, right?
That's the reality that the president of The
United States
is blaming
the the horrific death of many people, children,
on DEI.
(06:43):
Yes. What so in my experience,
it is hard to get to,
a conversation,
when we can't start with some level of
agreement. And so what we have to do
is recognize we are in a polarized
conversation. We are in polarized situation,
(07:05):
that we need to come to some level
of common ground. And so understanding that there
are some things
that,
people can agree on is where you start.
I agree. I mean, coming to,
talk about a tragedy in that sense when
the overwhelming,
need for the nation was to heal,
(07:25):
right, is is to grieve together
and to suddenly say, hey. I know who
the enemy is or what the enemy is,
and it's this without having any information. I
mean, it's not what I need to know.
But am I the only one that processes
that information as nothing less than racist? That
that was a blatantly racist comment that he
made?
I think I think racism could be part
(07:48):
of it. But, you know, what I heard
also is that he was looking at,
mental illness
and individuals with disabilities
and,
suggesting, not not merely just suggesting, but that
there was a lowering of standards,
which
has no
basis in fact,
(08:09):
and that it might not necessarily have been
just about one aspect of those,
of race, but really just looking at well,
you've you've you've clearly had somebody in here
that has,
you know, some some disability, and therefore,
you have
put people at risk,
which prompted the, you know, Association
(08:31):
of Americans with Disabilities to come out and
say, wait wait a second.
You you can't blame this tragedy on individuals
with disabilities. And,
you know, in terms of what we look
at from a DEI standpoint, I know you
all know this. It is like, how do
we ensure that everyone has the same
access to apply to these opportunities? It doesn't
mean
(08:52):
that we start deciding that,
we don't need certain level of standard education,
mental acuity, whatever it is, to be able
to do the role that is keeping people
safe, that is keeping people
to be able to take these flights
every day. I mean Right. But what I
hear from you is this very calm, reasonable,
(09:14):
super intelligent,
well educated spoken woman. Right? I hear that
here,
everything you're saying.
And I feel like sometimes, and forgive me
because, you know, I only get you for
a few minutes, so I'm going right for
it. I sometimes feel like now we we're
we're still trying to be reasonable and have
these reasonable conversations
(09:34):
with these reasonable,
you know, things that people should understand
in a world where it's just derogatory name
slowing and and it's very catchy and fast.
I feel like it's this war, and we're
losing it.
Yeah.
You know, I I hear that.
It's it's, I mean, it's been frustrating for
(09:56):
me, and it's not something that
not being in,
a workplace where I'm able to talk to
people who have that kind of opinion
about DEI
is,
is difficult. Because if I was in that
role, that's the conversation I would be having
with with, employees that felt that way. But
the first thing that I'd be asking is,
(10:19):
you know, tell me more about where that's
coming from.
Help me understand.
You know, I can't be anything but calm.
I mean, that is that is,
how I'm able to then get to a
conversation as opposed to a disagreement or an
argument. Of course. But let's just stop for
a minute, though, and acknowledge that an executive
order was signed,
which bans DEI from the federal government.
(10:41):
So this conversation that you're all listening to
is no longer allowed
in the federal government.
So for those of us that have spent
all our years, like the the those of
us that
are we that believe in education,
that has been removed from the federal government.
They are no longer allowed to be educated
(11:01):
in this space, and that is number one
what terrifies me. Without education, there's no growth.
So we did learn last week from Terry,
who was Obama's speechwriter,
that if we're gonna do something well and
we're gonna continue our mission, Ruchi, I'm gonna
ask you to end our podcast
with a message of hope.
(11:22):
And I gotta tell you,
I'm pretty not feeling very hopeful right now,
so I'm gonna be your worst nightmare in
that I'm walking I'm waking up this morning
with a real sense of I'm first generation
American.
My mom is feeling it horribly.
So I'm I'm your toughest person to convince
me that there is hope today.
(11:43):
I will just start with,
I
I understand,
that it it it feels dire. I I
understand. There has been a
a flurry of attacks
on us. I understand, and I acknowledge it.
I also wanna say we've been here before.
We've been here. It looks different. It's we
(12:05):
have been here before, and we have come
out the other side.
And so,
you know, I
I I can
I will say that if I was in
an organization where this was happening, I can
wait you out
because I know
that this is the work
that is necessary
(12:26):
for a company
to thrive? I believe that in my soul.
That was why I do this work. The
money helps, but it is not the driver
in why I do this work. It is
because I fundamentally believe that when a company
does this right,
everything follows.
Customer satisfaction,
profits, new markets, because you are understanding your
(12:48):
customer in ways in which you're able to
serve them better. And so I can wait
you out. You can throw up all of
the challenges you want.
In the end,
I know
that we will circle back around to the
point at which I can start doing the
work again.
(13:19):
This has been a production of Balancing Life's
Issues with your hosts, Kai Sorensen and Wendy
Wallner, produced by me, Kai.
Rate, leave a review, and subscribe to the
podcast wherever you listen so you can get
brand new episodes as they drop. Got an
idea for the show? Email me, kai@balancinglife'sissues.com.
Anything to add, Miles?
Welcome to Balancing Life's Issues, the podcast show
that tells it like it is. No fluff,
no sugarcoating,
just some real talk about mental health, workplace
culture, caregiving.
Whether you're here to learn, vent, or just
nod, we've got you covered. We're diving into
messy, unbelievable,
frustrating, and downright weird parts of diversity, equity,
(00:41):
and inclusion today with insights that actually matter.
No corporate buzzwords here. No boring lectures. Just
straight up bold, unfiltered conversations
that hit where they need to. So expect
some expert guests, some real stories, and maybe
a few hot takes that'll make you rethink
everything.
Buckle up. This is not your average podcast.
(01:03):
It's the one you didn't know you need.
Let's get into it.
Welcome to Ruchi Jala and a great conversation
about DEI.
Ruchi comes to us after having just left
as a chief diversity, equity, inclusion officer at
Element Health
and decades of experience
(01:24):
in the DEI.
So thank you today for sharing all of
your wisdom and your past corporate experience.
So,
Mucci, from a really high level, tell me
tell me what you think of DEI.
I believe that there is a real business
value and impact
to DEI when done right, and that's sort
(01:46):
of the
asterisk when done right.
And it is amazing, Ruchi, because you come
from both worlds. Right?
So,
if let's take a step back for a
minute
and just acknowledge
that it was last year, not that long
ago, where the CEO of UnitedHealthcare
was assassinated.
That was prior to President Trump coming in.
(02:08):
So you come from the health care industry.
That was a shocking fact that 40% of
Americans
actually thought that was a good thing. So
just on that, just from your years of
experience with elephants, what words of wisdom do
you have about that?
Well, I'll tell you it was,
the disparities in health care were what brought
me to the organization in the first place.
(02:29):
I mean, I joined Elevance Health in
2021,
really
because what I saw in COVID was astounding
in terms of the the disparate impact to
certain communities, black and brown communities across the
country. But, you know, from a socioeconomic
standpoint,
it affects people of all backgrounds. And just
(02:51):
to see that,
you know, for for all of the good
that we were doing to get the the
vaccines out and to get care where we
knew we were still missing huge gaps of
people.
And when I joined this organization,
it was about health equity. It was about
understanding
that,
everyone has the right to to health care.
(03:12):
And,
and I believed that. And so,
that comes from somewhere. It comes from people
feeling like,
they just can't get ahead, that they just
can't get a fair shot. And so I
understand. I don't agree with, but I understand
that anger.
So we had that horrific
shooting.
We have this horrible and then
(03:35):
we have President Trump. It wouldn't be a
really good conversation without DI for you to
say first,
as quickly as short, like, do you still
believe in DI?
Even where we are today, but why? Sell
sell so let's pretend I'm the worst critic.
Right? It doesn't work. I don't know. It's
it's favoritism.
Like, all the horrible things that you have
(03:56):
heard,
convince me that YDEI should still exist.
Yeah. You know, happy to. I you know,
one one thing I'll say is the the
resistance is not new.
Might be repackaged in a certain way, but
it's not new.
There are,
misperceptions
about what DEI is and what it isn't.
So the first thing that we do is
(04:16):
look at, you know, break down these words,
diversity, which means difference,
uniqueness.
Everyone
has something different about them, and therefore,
diversity means including,
all of those differences.
Equity is looking at fairness.
You know, fairness is something that everyone should
(04:38):
strive to achieve. And then inclusion.
Does everyone feel like they belong?
All all of those things in concept are
things that people can generally
agree on. They can generally agree on. Where
the difference comes in
is feeling like it's a zero sum game.
If you win,
I lose.
(04:59):
Right? And that's not the intent. That is
not the intent, nor is it the outcome
of diversity, equity and inclusion. And so what
we look at are things that,
have been brought forward
by really good strategies around DEI.
Accessibility is a word that we didn't talk
about in this sort of acronym.
But you think about how many times you
go through an airport and there's closed captioning
(05:21):
on, where do you think that came from?
It wasn't, you know, in terms of understanding,
you know, that this person is gonna get
something and this person isn't. It is how
do we bring people to the same level
so that everyone has access to the same
opportunities?
And in this case, it is I may
not be able to hear what's happening, but
now I can read it because those senses
(05:41):
are available to me.
Flexible,
flexible leave and and policies. You know, we're
we're in this debate, you know, before we've
been talking about these executive orders about return
to office.
Return to office at its core is, you
know, if we look at the outcome of
what you're trying to work on, do the
means of production really matter? Does it matter
(06:01):
where I do this work as long as
the outcome
is achieved? That's what DEI looks at. It
looks at, you know, where might be different
ways, different thoughts and perspectives,
and
perspectives, different backgrounds in order to get You're
you're having this very nice conversation that makes
perfect sense, right? Now let's just stop for
a second and say within minutes of people
(06:22):
dying in a plane crash,
the president of Our United States gets up
and says, Well, we know who's to blame.
DEI.
That's the world we're living in today, right?
That's the reality that the president of The
United States
is blaming
the the horrific death of many people, children,
on DEI.
(06:43):
Yes. What so in my experience,
it is hard to get to,
a conversation,
when we can't start with some level of
agreement. And so what we have to do
is recognize we are in a polarized
conversation. We are in polarized situation,
(07:05):
that we need to come to some level
of common ground. And so understanding that there
are some things
that,
people can agree on is where you start.
I agree. I mean, coming to,
talk about a tragedy in that sense when
the overwhelming,
need for the nation was to heal,
(07:25):
right, is is to grieve together
and to suddenly say, hey. I know who
the enemy is or what the enemy is,
and it's this without having any information. I
mean, it's not what I need to know.
But am I the only one that processes
that information as nothing less than racist? That
that was a blatantly racist comment that he
made?
I think I think racism could be part
(07:48):
of it. But, you know, what I heard
also is that he was looking at,
mental illness
and individuals with disabilities
and,
suggesting, not not merely just suggesting, but that
there was a lowering of standards,
which
has no
basis in fact,
(08:09):
and that it might not necessarily have been
just about one aspect of those,
of race, but really just looking at well,
you've you've you've clearly had somebody in here
that has,
you know, some some disability, and therefore,
you have
put people at risk,
which prompted the, you know, Association
(08:31):
of Americans with Disabilities to come out and
say, wait wait a second.
You you can't blame this tragedy on individuals
with disabilities. And,
you know, in terms of what we look
at from a DEI standpoint, I know you
all know this. It is like, how do
we ensure that everyone has the same
access to apply to these opportunities? It doesn't
mean
(08:52):
that we start deciding that,
we don't need certain level of standard education,
mental acuity, whatever it is, to be able
to do the role that is keeping people
safe, that is keeping people
to be able to take these flights
every day. I mean Right. But what I
hear from you is this very calm, reasonable,
(09:14):
super intelligent,
well educated spoken woman. Right? I hear that
here,
everything you're saying.
And I feel like sometimes, and forgive me
because, you know, I only get you for
a few minutes, so I'm going right for
it. I sometimes feel like now we we're
we're still trying to be reasonable and have
these reasonable conversations
(09:34):
with these reasonable,
you know, things that people should understand
in a world where it's just derogatory name
slowing and and it's very catchy and fast.
I feel like it's this war, and we're
losing it.
Yeah.
You know, I I hear that.
It's it's, I mean, it's been frustrating for
(09:56):
me, and it's not something that
not being in,
a workplace where I'm able to talk to
people who have that kind of opinion
about DEI
is,
is difficult. Because if I was in that
role, that's the conversation I would be having
with with, employees that felt that way. But
the first thing that I'd be asking is,
(10:19):
you know, tell me more about where that's
coming from.
Help me understand.
You know, I can't be anything but calm.
I mean, that is that is,
how I'm able to then get to a
conversation as opposed to a disagreement or an
argument. Of course. But let's just stop for
a minute, though, and acknowledge that an executive
order was signed,
which bans DEI from the federal government.
(10:41):
So this conversation that you're all listening to
is no longer allowed
in the federal government.
So for those of us that have spent
all our years, like the the those of
us that
are we that believe in education,
that has been removed from the federal government.
They are no longer allowed to be educated
(11:01):
in this space, and that is number one
what terrifies me. Without education, there's no growth.
So we did learn last week from Terry,
who was Obama's speechwriter,
that if we're gonna do something well and
we're gonna continue our mission, Ruchi, I'm gonna
ask you to end our podcast
with a message of hope.
(11:22):
And I gotta tell you,
I'm pretty not feeling very hopeful right now,
so I'm gonna be your worst nightmare in
that I'm walking I'm waking up this morning
with a real sense of I'm first generation
American.
My mom is feeling it horribly.
So I'm I'm your toughest person to convince
me that there is hope today.
(11:43):
I will just start with,
I
I understand,
that it it it feels dire. I I
understand. There has been a
a flurry of attacks
on us. I understand, and I acknowledge it.
I also wanna say we've been here before.
We've been here. It looks different. It's we
(12:05):
have been here before, and we have come
out the other side.
And so,
you know, I
I I can
I will say that if I was in
an organization where this was happening, I can
wait you out
because I know
that this is the work
that is necessary
(12:26):
for a company
to thrive? I believe that in my soul.
That was why I do this work. The
money helps, but it is not the driver
in why I do this work. It is
because I fundamentally believe that when a company
does this right,
everything follows.
Customer satisfaction,
profits, new markets, because you are understanding your
(12:48):
customer in ways in which you're able to
serve them better. And so I can wait
you out. You can throw up all of
the challenges you want.
In the end,
I know
that we will circle back around to the
point at which I can start doing the
work again.
(13:19):
This has been a production of Balancing Life's
Issues with your hosts, Kai Sorensen and Wendy
Wallner, produced by me, Kai.
Rate, leave a review, and subscribe to the
podcast wherever you listen so you can get
brand new episodes as they drop. Got an
idea for the show? Email me, kai@balancinglife'sissues.com.
Anything to add, Miles?
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