In this powerful and personal conversation, Wendy Wollner sits down with John Ebron—a retired Army combat veteran, leadership coach, and proud member of the LGBTQIA+ community—for a candid talk about the toll of hiding your identity at work, and the transformation that comes when you finally feel seen.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:03):
You only got so much energy as a
person, and we want everyone to feel as
though they're giving their best their best. Okay.
Stop. Stop. Redo that answer. I don't care
about the person. I only care about Johnny
Brook.
Hello. I'm Kai Sorensen, director of podcast at
Balancing Life's Issues, and welcome to This Is
Your Job Now because leadership today isn't just
(00:23):
about what you do, it's about how you
show up. In this episode, Wendy Wallner, CEO
of Balancing Life's Issues, opens up with a
powerful reflection on why caring about pride month
isn't optional for leaders. Then you'll hear from
Jon Ebron, a retired service member and leadership
coach who shares what it was like to
serve under don't ask, don't tell and why
visibility at work still matters.
And finally, we bring you inside a real
(00:45):
coaching session between Wendy and John, a raw
conversation about identity, impact, and what it truly
means to lead with empathy. Let's get started.
Hi. So let me take you back to
senior prom, I know, a few years ago.
But I had the most amazing prom date.
I'm sure many of you can relate. He
was charming, adorable, super smart. I mean, kind
(01:08):
of the guy that everybody wants to go
with, and we had an amazing time. And
we stopped by his house to get some
change of clothes because we're gonna do the
beach thing, or maybe some of you did
the beach thing afterwards. And sitting on the
stoop was a young man who was very,
very upset. And I came to learn that
that was my date's boyfriend. My date was
gay. This was one of my closest friends
(01:29):
in the world, and he did not feel
like he could tell me. As a matter
of fact, decades later, he's never come to
a reunion.
Really, we barely speak. And he really feels
that his entire high school
was a lie. It was a part of
him that just he was never able to
talk about. That story stayed with me. And
then years later, when I ended up getting
divorced, I remember my boss saying to me,
(01:51):
when you wanna just leave your wedding picture
up, like, it's a better look for HR.
Like, it's a better look if you're married,
more stable, more secure. Like, basically lie about
who you are. Well, these stories
are why I'm so excited on This Is
Your Job Now, our brand new launch,
redone
(02:11):
podcast to tell you you have a different
type of job today. You need to find
out all and everything
about the team that works for you. We
are doing a huge shout out to pride
month because now is the time
to address this as a leader. As you
listen to Jon Ebraham, I want you to
invite you to realize what a gem,
(02:33):
what a absolute gem John is on our
team and how incredibly fortunate that I got
to know all of John, not just part
of John, and how difficult it is for
someone who was really wired on the don't
ask, don't tell, as you'll come to learn,
as a black, gay,
incredibly
loyal
part of our services,
(02:53):
has learned to share who he really is
and why that's so important. So please listen
to us. Follow us on YouTube.
Connect with me on LinkedIn, Wendy Wallner. Wherever
you listen to podcasts, please go in luck
for This Is Your Job Now. I can't
wait to hear from you.
(03:15):
Hi. My name is Jon Ebron. I'm the
founder of Ebron Coaching and Consulting, a leadership
and personal development firm
helping people unlock their full potential through transformative
coaching and strategic training. Now as an entrepreneur
and a retired combat service member and a
proud member of the LGBTQIA
plus community, I'm thrilled to have the opportunity
(03:37):
to discuss
the importance of visibility during Pride Month. I
want to share a personal story that helped
shape my understanding
of why visibility
matters, especially for leaders
and managers. During my twenty years of service
in the United States Army,
sixteen of those years were spent under the
don't ask, don't tell policy. This policy
(04:00):
meant that I had to conceal
a fundamental part of who I am. And
the pressure and the isolation of hiding my
identity
took a toll not only on my mental
health, but also on my ability to serve
at my best. The lack of visibility and
the fear of being discovered
created an environment where I couldn't fully bring
(04:21):
my whole self to my role. This is
why visibility matters. For one, it fosters an
environment of authenticity and trust.
When people can be open about who they
are, they can contribute more effectively
and more creatively.
Visibility
helps dismantle stereotypes
and builds empathy,
(04:42):
allowing teams to function more cohesively.
As leaders and managers,
embracing and promoting visibility
is not just about supporting the LGBTQIA
plus community. It's about fostering a workplace where
everyone feels safe and valued. So as you
can see, your leadership,
your influence,
(05:03):
it really makes a big difference in the
lives of your employees.
Now for me,
after the repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell,
I was approached by a local newspaper to
share my experiences
of serving out proudly
six months after the repeal. This was a
huge thing for me. It essentially
was my coming out story, and I was
(05:24):
fortunate to have a leader who took a
strong supportive stance.
Now despite
significant opposition, my commander stood firm. Many advising
him to keep me closeted for the sake
of avoiding controversy.
But instead, my commander made it clear. It
is our job to support our people so
that they can accomplish the mission. With this
(05:46):
unwavering support,
it not only helped me embrace my identity
openly,
but it also set a powerful message
throughout the unit. It demonstrated
that inclusive leadership isn't just about policy.
It's about taking a stand for the people
that you lead and creating a space where
everyone can thrive. So how can you, as
(06:08):
a leader, promote visibility and inclusion in your
organization?
Start by creating a culture of openness and
respect.
Encourage dialogue and listen actively
to your team's experiences
and stand up against discrimination.
Representation
matters
and having a visible role model within your
(06:29):
organization can inspire others to be their authentic
selves. So as we celebrate Pride in all
its fun and festivities,
let's remember that visibility is more than just
a concept.
It's a commitment to inclusivity
and respect.
So take a moment to reflect on how
you can support visibility
in your teams and lead by example because
(06:52):
this is your job
now.
of all, let me just start with a
huge thank you. Thank you.
Tons of tons of gratitude and permission
to
go into a little bit of a coaching
session for about four minutes. John, you are
one of the most valuable assets
(07:15):
to my world. I'm incredibly
grateful for the impact that you have on
our clients and our world and getting to
know you.
But let's just take a journey for a
When you came on, as open and honest
as you were, you didn't share right away
on day one, minute one that you happen
to be gay. Correct? Correct. Yes. Why?
(07:35):
Condition. You know, being in the military, you
just don't talk about it. And being in
the black community, you don't talk about it.
Right? Oh, interesting. So you got this, what
we call in the dating world, John, some
baggage going on. Yeah.
Absolutely.
Okay. Absolutely. So it took quite some time
for me to learn that about you. And
(07:56):
what would you say
after we found out this really important personal
information happened to your career here
at BLI? What what happened after we learned
so much more about you? What did you
notice? Well, I I my opportunities exploded. Right?
Wait. What? Say that one more time. What
what happened? My opportunities exploded. Yeah. Well, just
say that one more time for a little
blah blah blah. What happened? My opportunities exploded.
(08:18):
Absolutely.
So for those people listening
about our leadership job and why it changes,
when we learn,
air quotes, personal information, the world can sometimes
open up. Absolutely. Right. Right. You get to
breathe because you don't have to expend so
much energy holding back part of yourself and
being a 100% effective, you know? So if
(08:39):
you were to critique me, the good, the
bad, the ugly as a leader, what do
you think Wendy did well as a CEO?
What do you think she could have done
better? And And what do you think she
should work on?
Well,
what went well was the overwhelming acceptance. It
was almost like a wave. It almost knocked
me over. Right? Because I wasn't expecting that.
I'm at the point now where I would
(09:00):
just say it and not know what is
gonna come from it. Right? So I don't
have an expectation to be welcomed, you know,
or anything like that. So that was amazing.
Right? I think we got right to work
though. Right? So I still felt like the
person,
was still was pushed aside but from a
different angle. Right? Most of my time, being
(09:21):
pushed aside because we don't want anything to
do with that. And then I felt like
the person got pushed aside because we could
do so much with that. Right?
So,
in in both sides of two sides of
the same coin, I still felt a little
bit not seen
Mhmm. Because
of for a different reason, I guess you
could say. So it sounds to me like
I still have work to do. We all.
(09:44):
Yeah. Alright. So and if we were to
sum this up, you know, one of the
things I think we're learning,
as we listen is it's not getting easier.
It's getting harder. Yeah. Absolutely.
So in the twelve seconds I'm about to
give you, John because that's all we get
the listeners for, about twelve seconds.
Drum roll.
The most important reason that we need to
(10:05):
care about Pride Month is
The most important reason we care about Pride
Month,
again, from my perspective is you only got
so much energy as a person.
And we want everyone to feel as though
they're giving their best, their Okay. Stop. Stop.
Redo that answer. I don't care about the
person. I only care about Johnny Brum. Okay.
(10:27):
Seconds,
I'm your boss. Let's pretend I'm your boss.
Why should I care that you're gay? You
should care that I'm gay because part that's
part of me that makes up the the
motivation behind why I do what I do.
And if I can't tap into that, I
can't bring anything to you. Perfect.
Done.
(10:47):
John, I'm saying that the all love in
my heart, you are so talented and you
are so gifted and you get into your
own way,
and then you're boring. Okay. And I don't
want to waste anybody's time. I this is
what I'm learning the same thing as you,
right? You know, you want this is what
you want. You want people to go who
who is he? I gotta go I gotta
(11:07):
Google him. Instead of what and believe me,
I'm giving you the same feedback that my
coaches are giving Meg. You shouldn't ever have
to introduce yourself. You should be sent a
splash right in the beginning that they wanna
know who you are.
(11:30):
Thanks for listening to This Is Your Job
Now produced by me, Kai. If this episode
made you think or made you feel, we
hope it also made you realize you don't
have to figure this out all alone. Leadership
today is about presence, not perfection. To learn
more, follow Wendy Wohner on LinkedIn, subscribe to
Balancing Life's Issues on YouTube, or stream the
podcast wherever you listen. Because if you're leading
people, this is your job now. Anything else
(11:51):
to add, Miles?
You only got so much energy as a
person, and we want everyone to feel as
though they're giving their best their best. Okay.
Stop. Stop. Redo that answer. I don't care
about the person. I only care about Johnny
Brook.
Hello. I'm Kai Sorensen, director of podcast at
Balancing Life's Issues, and welcome to This Is
Your Job Now because leadership today isn't just
(00:23):
about what you do, it's about how you
show up. In this episode, Wendy Wallner, CEO
of Balancing Life's Issues, opens up with a
powerful reflection on why caring about pride month
isn't optional for leaders. Then you'll hear from
Jon Ebron, a retired service member and leadership
coach who shares what it was like to
serve under don't ask, don't tell and why
visibility at work still matters.
And finally, we bring you inside a real
(00:45):
coaching session between Wendy and John, a raw
conversation about identity, impact, and what it truly
means to lead with empathy. Let's get started.
Hi. So let me take you back to
senior prom, I know, a few years ago.
But I had the most amazing prom date.
I'm sure many of you can relate. He
was charming, adorable, super smart. I mean, kind
(01:08):
of the guy that everybody wants to go
with, and we had an amazing time. And
we stopped by his house to get some
change of clothes because we're gonna do the
beach thing, or maybe some of you did
the beach thing afterwards. And sitting on the
stoop was a young man who was very,
very upset. And I came to learn that
that was my date's boyfriend. My date was
gay. This was one of my closest friends
(01:29):
in the world, and he did not feel
like he could tell me. As a matter
of fact, decades later, he's never come to
a reunion.
Really, we barely speak. And he really feels
that his entire high school
was a lie. It was a part of
him that just he was never able to
talk about. That story stayed with me. And
then years later, when I ended up getting
divorced, I remember my boss saying to me,
(01:51):
when you wanna just leave your wedding picture
up, like, it's a better look for HR.
Like, it's a better look if you're married,
more stable, more secure. Like, basically lie about
who you are. Well, these stories
are why I'm so excited on This Is
Your Job Now, our brand new launch,
redone
(02:11):
podcast to tell you you have a different
type of job today. You need to find
out all and everything
about the team that works for you. We
are doing a huge shout out to pride
month because now is the time
to address this as a leader. As you
listen to Jon Ebraham, I want you to
invite you to realize what a gem,
(02:33):
what a absolute gem John is on our
team and how incredibly fortunate that I got
to know all of John, not just part
of John, and how difficult it is for
someone who was really wired on the don't
ask, don't tell, as you'll come to learn,
as a black, gay,
incredibly
loyal
part of our services,
(02:53):
has learned to share who he really is
and why that's so important. So please listen
to us. Follow us on YouTube.
Connect with me on LinkedIn, Wendy Wallner. Wherever
you listen to podcasts, please go in luck
for This Is Your Job Now. I can't
wait to hear from you.
(03:15):
Hi. My name is Jon Ebron. I'm the
founder of Ebron Coaching and Consulting, a leadership
and personal development firm
helping people unlock their full potential through transformative
coaching and strategic training. Now as an entrepreneur
and a retired combat service member and a
proud member of the LGBTQIA
plus community, I'm thrilled to have the opportunity
(03:37):
to discuss
the importance of visibility during Pride Month. I
want to share a personal story that helped
shape my understanding
of why visibility
matters, especially for leaders
and managers. During my twenty years of service
in the United States Army,
sixteen of those years were spent under the
don't ask, don't tell policy. This policy
(04:00):
meant that I had to conceal
a fundamental part of who I am. And
the pressure and the isolation of hiding my
identity
took a toll not only on my mental
health, but also on my ability to serve
at my best. The lack of visibility and
the fear of being discovered
created an environment where I couldn't fully bring
(04:21):
my whole self to my role. This is
why visibility matters. For one, it fosters an
environment of authenticity and trust.
When people can be open about who they
are, they can contribute more effectively
and more creatively.
Visibility
helps dismantle stereotypes
and builds empathy,
(04:42):
allowing teams to function more cohesively.
As leaders and managers,
embracing and promoting visibility
is not just about supporting the LGBTQIA
plus community. It's about fostering a workplace where
everyone feels safe and valued. So as you
can see, your leadership,
your influence,
(05:03):
it really makes a big difference in the
lives of your employees.
Now for me,
after the repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell,
I was approached by a local newspaper to
share my experiences
of serving out proudly
six months after the repeal. This was a
huge thing for me. It essentially
was my coming out story, and I was
(05:24):
fortunate to have a leader who took a
strong supportive stance.
Now despite
significant opposition, my commander stood firm. Many advising
him to keep me closeted for the sake
of avoiding controversy.
But instead, my commander made it clear. It
is our job to support our people so
that they can accomplish the mission. With this
(05:46):
unwavering support,
it not only helped me embrace my identity
openly,
but it also set a powerful message
throughout the unit. It demonstrated
that inclusive leadership isn't just about policy.
It's about taking a stand for the people
that you lead and creating a space where
everyone can thrive. So how can you, as
(06:08):
a leader, promote visibility and inclusion in your
organization?
Start by creating a culture of openness and
respect.
Encourage dialogue and listen actively
to your team's experiences
and stand up against discrimination.
Representation
matters
and having a visible role model within your
(06:29):
organization can inspire others to be their authentic
selves. So as we celebrate Pride in all
its fun and festivities,
let's remember that visibility is more than just
a concept.
It's a commitment to inclusivity
and respect.
So take a moment to reflect on how
you can support visibility
in your teams and lead by example because
(06:52):
this is your job
now.
of all, let me just start with a
huge thank you. Thank you.
Tons of tons of gratitude and permission
to
go into a little bit of a coaching
session for about four minutes. John, you are
one of the most valuable assets
(07:15):
to my world. I'm incredibly
grateful for the impact that you have on
our clients and our world and getting to
know you.
But let's just take a journey for a
When you came on, as open and honest
as you were, you didn't share right away
on day one, minute one that you happen
to be gay. Correct? Correct. Yes. Why?
(07:35):
Condition. You know, being in the military, you
just don't talk about it. And being in
the black community, you don't talk about it.
Right? Oh, interesting. So you got this, what
we call in the dating world, John, some
baggage going on. Yeah.
Absolutely.
Okay. Absolutely. So it took quite some time
for me to learn that about you. And
(07:56):
what would you say
after we found out this really important personal
information happened to your career here
at BLI? What what happened after we learned
so much more about you? What did you
notice? Well, I I my opportunities exploded. Right?
Wait. What? Say that one more time. What
what happened? My opportunities exploded. Yeah. Well, just
say that one more time for a little
blah blah blah. What happened? My opportunities exploded.
(08:18):
Absolutely.
So for those people listening
about our leadership job and why it changes,
when we learn,
air quotes, personal information, the world can sometimes
open up. Absolutely. Right. Right. You get to
breathe because you don't have to expend so
much energy holding back part of yourself and
being a 100% effective, you know? So if
(08:39):
you were to critique me, the good, the
bad, the ugly as a leader, what do
you think Wendy did well as a CEO?
What do you think she could have done
better? And And what do you think she
should work on?
Well,
what went well was the overwhelming acceptance. It
was almost like a wave. It almost knocked
me over. Right? Because I wasn't expecting that.
I'm at the point now where I would
(09:00):
just say it and not know what is
gonna come from it. Right? So I don't
have an expectation to be welcomed, you know,
or anything like that. So that was amazing.
Right? I think we got right to work
though. Right? So I still felt like the
person,
was still was pushed aside but from a
different angle. Right? Most of my time, being
(09:21):
pushed aside because we don't want anything to
do with that. And then I felt like
the person got pushed aside because we could
do so much with that. Right?
So,
in in both sides of two sides of
the same coin, I still felt a little
bit not seen
Mhmm. Because
of for a different reason, I guess you
could say. So it sounds to me like
I still have work to do. We all.
(09:44):
Yeah. Alright. So and if we were to
sum this up, you know, one of the
things I think we're learning,
as we listen is it's not getting easier.
It's getting harder. Yeah. Absolutely.
So in the twelve seconds I'm about to
give you, John because that's all we get
the listeners for, about twelve seconds.
Drum roll.
The most important reason that we need to
(10:05):
care about Pride Month is
The most important reason we care about Pride
Month,
again, from my perspective is you only got
so much energy as a person.
And we want everyone to feel as though
they're giving their best, their Okay. Stop. Stop.
Redo that answer. I don't care about the
person. I only care about Johnny Brum. Okay.
(10:27):
Seconds,
I'm your boss. Let's pretend I'm your boss.
Why should I care that you're gay? You
should care that I'm gay because part that's
part of me that makes up the the
motivation behind why I do what I do.
And if I can't tap into that, I
can't bring anything to you. Perfect.
Done.
(10:47):
John, I'm saying that the all love in
my heart, you are so talented and you
are so gifted and you get into your
own way,
and then you're boring. Okay. And I don't
want to waste anybody's time. I this is
what I'm learning the same thing as you,
right? You know, you want this is what
you want. You want people to go who
who is he? I gotta go I gotta
(11:07):
Google him. Instead of what and believe me,
I'm giving you the same feedback that my
coaches are giving Meg. You shouldn't ever have
to introduce yourself. You should be sent a
splash right in the beginning that they wanna
know who you are.
(11:30):
Thanks for listening to This Is Your Job
Now produced by me, Kai. If this episode
made you think or made you feel, we
hope it also made you realize you don't
have to figure this out all alone. Leadership
today is about presence, not perfection. To learn
more, follow Wendy Wohner on LinkedIn, subscribe to
Balancing Life's Issues on YouTube, or stream the
podcast wherever you listen. Because if you're leading
people, this is your job now. Anything else
(11:51):
to add, Miles?
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