December 29, 2024 • 54 mins
Kenny and Candyce delve into the profound impact of gratitude, discussing how it can shape one's daily life, spur personal development, and enrich spiritual practices. They explore how gratitude can turn ordinary moments into extraordinary ones, manage life's unpredictability, and enhance relationships by fostering a deeper sense of appreciation and empathy.
Themes:
- Gratitude and Presence: The significance of being fully engaged in the now, appreciating what is currently available.
- Control and Acceptance: How gratitude helps in accepting what we can't control, leading to a serene life approach.
- Meditation as a Tool: Utilizing meditation to deepen gratitude, connecting oneself more profoundly with the present.
- Spiritual Practices: The role of gratitude in both Buddhist meditation and Christian prayer as a path to spiritual growth.
- Perspective on Challenges: Transforming our approach to life's trials through the lens of gratitude.
- Interconnectedness: The spread of positive energy through gratitude in social interactions.
Quotes:
- Candyce: "In it's being aware of the beautiful and positive things that you have in your life understanding how powerful those things are. Being of the present moment. Gratitude is like the full experience of the present to me. I try to spend at least some time every day just appreciating wherever I'm at, the fact that I woke up, the fact that I'm breathing."
- Kenny: "Yeah, I do know. You're not wrong. We get so upset about things that, number one, are outside of our control. But number two, we have. There's a lot that we have to be thankful for to even have those problems. This morning I got out of a bed. That most people do not sleep in. I live in a country that is not at war. I got to eat some. Really? Okay food, but I got to eat food, period. So, I mean, these are all things that we can be grateful for."
- Candyce: "There's always a point like it's okay to feel, it's not the way that you want it right now. I understand that feeling. But to be grateful for what you have in the moment is really something that can cultivate a lot of energy, if you're thinking about it and drive you to reach some goals that you may want."
- Candyce: "And honestly, being grateful even for the things that maybe we didn't want to go through or didn't want to experience or didn't want. So those led to where you are remember getting it. Getting in a car accident got rear ended and I felt terrible. Woe is me for a second. And then I realized, well, this is just another opportunity. I'll get it fixed. It'll be fine. And here I am. I've got a better car a little bit later, you know, it leads to something else. But I wouldn't have gotten here if that didn't happen."
- Kenny: "How important is happiness? Is it happiness a big deal? Yeah."
- Candyce: "You imagine yourself. So it's like kind of an imagination thing. So you sit and you imagine yourself in a garden of your choosing on a bench and there's a fence and you imagine people walking by that fence. You start out with somebody easy, somebody where it's easy to be grateful for them. And you invite them to sit with you and you tell them you give them a flower and you explain why you're grateful for them and you wish them their best and they move on."
- Candyce: "It's hard to explain and it stems from that gratitude of being present. And that's the foundation for, my Buddhism. I will not say that I am an expert, but this I can definitely speak for my personal practice and my personal experiences."
- Ke
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
In this episode of Balancing the Christian Life, we
talk about the importance ofgratitude and meditation.
Welcome to Balancing theChristian Life.
I'm Dr Kenny Embry.
Join me as we discover how tobe better Christians and people
in the digital age.
Have you ever meditated?
(00:21):
I mean really meditated.
Have you ever meditated?
I mean really meditated, nottalking about burning incense or
crossing your legs, but I domean clearing your head and
focusing.
And if you said yes, then tellme why you're lying and then
tell me what do you have to lose?
For this episode, Iintentionally chose to speak
(00:43):
with Candice Nelson.
She's someone who is new at myuniversity, where she's working
in a division that helps usfaculty members integrate
technology and best teachingpractices in the classroom.
To be frank, this was both anopportunity to get to know a
(01:03):
colleague, but also tounderstand a different religion.
Candice is Buddhist.
Understand a different religion.
Candice is Buddhist.
No, I'm not converting toBuddhism, but because Buddhism
is renowned for its meditationpractices.
I think this is something I canlearn from and I'm grateful to
have the opportunity to do justthat.
Candice and I explore the heartof gratitude and in that
conversation we talk aboutmeditation and perspective.
(01:25):
You'll hear us discuss thepower of presence, the art of
acceptance and how both of ourrespective faiths use gratitude
as a tool for personal growth.
Listen closely as we unpack howgratitude can reshape your view
of life's challenges, enrichyour relationships and lead to
(01:48):
profound moments of peace.
What do you have to lose?
Well, maybe there's somethingwe can gain.
So let's start here.
What is gratitude?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
It's being aware of the beautiful and positive
things that you have in yourlife, understanding how powerful
those things are, being of thepresent moment, gratitude is
like the full experience of thepresent to me.
I try to spend at least sometime every day just appreciating
(02:24):
, wherever I'm at, the fact thatI woke up, the fact that I'm
breathing, you know.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah, I do know.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Sometimes it's just like I'm sitting in traffic.
But you know what?
I have a car.
I'm pretty grateful for that.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
You're not wrong.
We get so upset about thingsthat number one are outside of
our control.
Wrong, we get so upset aboutthings that number one are
outside of our control.
But number two there's a lotthat we have to be thankful for
to even have those problems.
This morning I got out of a bedthat most people do not sleep
(03:00):
in.
I live in a country that is notat war.
I got to eat some really okayfood, but I got to eat food
period.
So I mean, these are all thingsthat we can be grateful for,
and it's easy for us to getentitled.
It's easy for us to feel likeno, no, no, no, no, my life is
bad.
My life just is not workingbecause there are parts of it
(03:21):
that you'd like to be different.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
There's always a point like it's okay to feel
it's not the way that you wantit right now.
I understand that feeling, butto be grateful for what you have
in the moment is reallysomething that can cultivate a
lot of energy.
If you're thinking about it anddrive you to reach some goals
that you may want To appreciate.
What you have will make youhappy.
(03:44):
It's like the basis for beinghappy to me.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
How important is happiness?
Is happiness a big deal?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
I mean it's important , but it's not everything,
because there's other feelingsbesides that Happiness there's,
you know, just being content.
I find that a very pleasantfeeling.
I don't have to have a sense ofjoy.
Sometimes we conflate happinessand well-being.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
But gratitude leads to that sense of well-being
because you do appreciate all ofthose little things that happen
in your life.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
And honestly being grateful even for the things
that maybe we didn't want to gothrough or didn't want to
experience or didn't want, sothose led to where you are.
I remember getting in a caraccident.
I got rear-ended and I feltterrible.
(04:37):
Woe is me for a second.
And then I realized well, thisis just another opportunity,
I'll get it fixed, it'll be fine, and here I am, I've got a
better car.
You know, this is just anotheropportunity.
I'll get it fixed, it'll befine.
And here I am.
I've got a better car.
You know a little bit later.
You know it leads to somethingelse, but I wouldn't have gotten
here if that didn't happen.
So it's taught me just to begrateful for everything.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Well, one of the things that we talked about this
a little bit yesterday is thatyou are a Buddhist.
Yes, let me ask you this whatis the role of gratitude in
Buddhism?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
It's pretty much the foundation.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Really.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Yeah, that and understanding and compassion for
all people.
But gratitude, just being inthe present moment is a very big
part of my practice.
So living and appreciatingbreathing, so meditation is a
big thing.
So if I'm meditating, it mightbe breathing in and breathing
(05:34):
out and appreciating what ishappening in my body.
That's helping me live.
I think about that sense ofinterconnectedness with every
living thing.
You become grateful for thatand it changes your perspective
on how you view people andthings.
It's hard to explain and itstems from that gratitude of
(05:58):
being present and that's thefoundation for my Buddhism.
I will not say that I am anexpert, but I can definitely
speak from my personal practiceand my personal experiences.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Well, I've been a Christian for 55 years and I
would not call myself an experteither.
There is so much that I don'thave a clue about that idea of
meditation.
One of the things aboutChristianity is we are told to
meditate, but I don't know thatwe know how to do that very well
.
How do you meditate?
How do you center yourself?
What are some of the practicesthat you go through that help
(06:34):
you with this?
Speaker 2 (06:35):
It was a tough journey.
I will say that because—.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Oh, you're done.
You're done on that journey.
No, no, I'm not even nearlydone.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
When I do meditate, I just sit wherever I am and I
just focus on my breathing.
I'll just focus on myself, kindof breathing in and breathing
out.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
So it helps kind of calm the rush of thoughts and
then, oh, candice, that's waytoo simple.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
That's way too simple .
That's it.
That's all you got to do, Likethat's the secret sauce.
You just sit down and breathe.
It sounds simple and then youdo it.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
What's the challenge of it?
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Shutting off your brain, especially in our culture
.
It's a very project-driven,very attainment-driven, got to
keep doing, got to keepaccomplishing sort of culture.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Right, and what's wrong with that, Candice?
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Not a thing.
But I think it's harder whenyou're trying to calm your
thoughts and especially when youhave to sit down and do nothing
.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Well, yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
It essentially is what we perceive as doing
nothing.
Sometimes, when you say, well,I'm doing nothing, that's like a
negative.
You're not being productive howdare you?
But you are.
You're learning to calm,yourself, to calm your thoughts
and it brings a real sense ofclarity and perspective.
Now, not all meditation is justclear your mind, some of it.
(08:00):
There's one that's specificallyfor gratitude.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
And how does that go?
Speaker 2 (08:04):
You imagine yourself, so it's like kind of an
imagination thing.
So you sit and you imagineyourself in a garden of your
choosing on a bench, and there'sa fence and you imagine people
walking by that fence.
You start out with somebodyeasy, somebody where it's easy
to be grateful for them, and youinvite them to sit with you and
(08:25):
you tell them, you give them aflower and you explain why
you're grateful for them and youwish them their best and they
move on and slowly, throughoutthis practice, you deal with
more difficult people in yourlife, the people that maybe it's
harder to say that you'regrateful for or that you really
(08:47):
struggle.
But through that, throughthinking of that person or those
people that I have the mostcomplicated life with or
conversations with, I really dodevelop a deep appreciation for
them because they give my lifeperspective and I do wish them
(09:07):
well and it gives you that spaceinside of you to be
compassionate and understandingtoward them and I really like
that meditation in particular.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Is it mostly just a visualization exercise?
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yeah, it's very visual, at least for me.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
I see, see it you're not watching a movie.
This is, this is a vision inyour mind.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Yeah, yeah, it's just like a vision in your mind and
you're, you know, you're kind ofhearing it in your head, but
there's also that piece of youthat's kind of even in the
background, noticing what'shappening and those interactions
.
So it's like you know D&D butfor meditating.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
I don't think I've ever referenced Dungeons Dragons
on this.
This might be a first, but goahead.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Yes, but you're kind of role-playing it out.
You are facing people andthings that are easy and some
that are hard, and looking at itdirectly in a very comfortable
way.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Right.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
That you are inviting them into the space and you are
finding those things, that youcan be appreciative about them
and, I think, really buildingthat sense of compassion and
understanding.
It is critical to my outlook onlife and to developing a sense
of well-being and understanding.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Right.
I think one of the things thatall of us struggle with is not
getting what we want when wewant it.
You're probably familiar withthe character of Job in the Old
Testament.
Job is a character in the OldTestament who you're given a
backstage conversation with Godand the devil, and the devil
(11:02):
makes this argument.
You know, the only reason thatJob is following you is because
you keep on giving him all thisgreat stuff.
And God said take it all away.
See what happens.
And the problem is Job, who hasbeen righteous that's what
you're told at the verybeginning of the story.
(11:22):
He didn't do anything todeserve what he got.
But he has 10 children and thedevil takes all 10 of them,
kills them, he takes his health,he takes all of his possessions
and there comes a point atwhich all the things that he had
worked for that were franklygiven to him by the Lord and he
(11:47):
gets to the point where there'snot anything he can do anymore.
And it's that, I think, whatyou're describing that sense of
surrender, that there's notanything I can do.
And the test for Job was areyou going to denounce God or are
you going to take God on histerms?
And it sounds like that's a lotof what you're talking about
(12:08):
there as well.
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (12:12):
That's definitely part of it.
It's kind of just understandingwhat's in your control and
what's not.
This is a Stoic philosophy too,which is kind of what led me
into Buddhism later, which iskind of what led me into
Buddhism later.
There's things that you havecontrol over and things you do
not.
And you have to be okay andaccept, like you have to accept
(12:32):
that that's what's happening andyou can't let it destroy you,
or else what are you going to do?
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Well, I can think of some things that you might do.
I mean, I understand whatyou're saying, because you and I
could both name some people whogot really bitter.
And you can also, you and Icould both name some people that
decide to embrace victimhoodand just decide that victimhood
is going to be.
That's just going to be my tagright now, that I'm just going
(13:04):
to.
You guys aren't consideringthat I'm really going, that I'm
and this is something thathappens with my wife and I that
I didn't get a good night'ssleep, and so then it becomes a
one-upmanship game of well, Ididn't get enough sleep last
night, you got, and I get it.
Enough sleep last night, yougot and I get it.
(13:27):
And it's kind of a pettyargument, because now we're
trying to argue who has theleast amount of sleep, which is
not a game that I want to play,nor do I want to win.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
No, I'd imagine.
Not.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
But I think one of the things that you're kind of
talking about again, it's thatidea of centering yourself and
focusing on something thatreally makes you better is is
that right?
Is that accurate?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
and and honestly, just accepting things as they
are like even, even if it's notbetter at the moment um, you
can't change it, but you canaccept it, and then that's a
platform that you can use to getbetter, like you can use that
to.
If I just accept whatever'shappening to me.
You know, for example, I havemigraines all the time.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Well, my wife does too.
My wife does too.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
I can't do anything about that.
They exist, right, I can drinksome water, take my time and
then just keep going on andmoving.
Or my other choice is to sitthere and wallow and get all
upset that I have a headache andmake it worse.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
And you've never done that.
You've never gotten upset aboutthis stuff.
No, that's how I learned, is Igot upset?
Make it worse.
And you've never done that.
You've never gotten upset aboutthis stuff.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
No, that's how I learned is I got upset about it.
First Because I started gettingthem when I was very young, so
I didn't understand, you know,and of course I got, you know,
mad.
I can't see, I can't hear, likehear properly.
I can't even talk properly.
When I have them properly, Ican't even talk properly when I
(15:09):
have them.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
It's very frustrating .
Speaker 2 (15:09):
So I there was that tendency to want to wallow and
or be like woe is me, but youlearn well, I could do that and
just not be happy or realizeit's gonna go go away.
Everything is temporary.
That's.
Another thing that drew me toBuddhism is the idea of the
(15:32):
temporary nature of things.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
All things are temporary, including the
migraines.
Yeah, that's true.
Again, I think about things inmy Christian tradition where
there's a time for everything tohappen and there's a time again
it's that old bird song toeverything there's a season, a
(16:00):
time for war, a time for peaceand all of those things.
And I guess one of the thingsthat I would say is and I think
you would probably agree withthis there's a time to be
depressed and just wallow indepression.
But that time, in my opinionand I don't know if you would
agree with this is that thattime probably needs to be as
short as you can make it,because it's not a productive
(16:24):
time, but it might be something.
I mean, I'm thinking about afamily member that I know that
is going to die.
It's just, we know they'regoing to die and we know it's
going to be soon, and we knowwe're going to be sad, but we
also know at some point we'regoing to have to pick ourselves
(16:44):
up and move on.
And it's not because we didn'tlove them.
We will give them the time thatwe need, but we need to move on
.
Is this something you agreewith?
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Yeah, I do.
I'm thinking it made me thinkabout my great-grandmother.
For the longest time she hadAlzheimer's.
She had breast cancer.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Oh bless her.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
We knew it was coming , but she lived till she was 99
years old.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
And her funeral was a—we threw her the biggest party
, you know because that's whatshe would have wanted.
Were we sad?
Absolutely.
We were all there the day thatshe died.
We were all there with her?
did we cry?
Absolutely?
Yeah, um, we took time toreally feel it, to deeply feel
(17:33):
it.
Um, but part of like thebuddhist tradition for me has
been like you look at that, thatsuffering, that pain, and you
take care of it.
You really look at the sourceof that and the source of that
pain came from how much I lovedher and how much I would miss
(17:56):
her talking to me and herteaching.
And I realized that thatdoesn't go away.
Her teachings stay through thememories that I have of her and
she continues on in so manyother people in so many other
ways.
She was a teacher for years,like her whole career.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
And I think about her .
Students showed up to herfuneral.
Oh isn't that wonderful.
Yeah, I mean, she was 99 yearsold and they show, you know, to
have that kind of an impact.
People leave, but they don'treally leave.
Pieces of them are here, theycontinue on and that, to me, is
very helpful.
(18:39):
But I think kind of, I'm kindof getting a little off track
but, but it's okay to deeplyfeel something to really look at
it.
But if you live there, it's apretty dark place to be it can
be.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
I think again going back to the topic that we're
talking about, gratitude is notalways a happy feeling.
Gratitude is not alwayssomething that makes us feel
great.
Do you agree with that?
Speaker 2 (19:14):
In a way.
I think there's been someexperiences I've had that I'm
grateful for that.
I would have rather not havegone through, that's for sure.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but they makeyou the person you are.
They really do.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
I got to kick my daughter out of the house
Exciting times because she gotmarried.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
And I'm sad on one hand, but I'm really happy for
it and, frankly, I'm justgrateful that I got to be there
for a while.
Look, I think I'm glad not tobe paying for it anymore.
I'm very grateful for that.
(20:02):
But that said, I think one ofthe things and you've got one,
I've got four the parent'sjourney is different than I
thought it would be, and I guessthe biggest blessing for me
would be to recognize I'm notall that important and that I'm
(20:25):
kind of insignificant in thegrand scheme of things is a very
good thing.
Oh yeah, I'm replaceable.
That's probably good that I'monly going to be in these kids'
lives, my students' lives.
I'm important to them for maybefour years and that's it.
But it's one of the things thatI talk to my students about.
(20:49):
They won't remember what wetalk about in the classroom,
they just won't.
But they'll remember how theyfelt, they'll remember things
that they probably won't thinkthey'll remember Again.
They'll cram for the final,they'll cram for the midterm and
(21:11):
they won't remember any of it.
I think that when it comes toagain and it's the beauty of
being a teacher, the beauty ofbeing an educator, the beauty of
being somebody who can helpother people.
I guess that's one of thethings that I really appreciate,
that there is gratitude inplaying a small role.
Again, it's that idea that youaren't all that important.
(21:38):
Is this something that yourecognize?
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
How so.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
So when I think about it, I like to play a little
mind game sometimes.
Oh, you do I like to imagine mysize compared to the rest of
the universe, my problemscompared to all of that, you
know.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
And I realized it doesn't really matter that much.
You know, in the grand schemeof things I am so small and that
sounds depressing, but when youreally think about it it's not.
It's very freeing to realizethat you, while these things
feel so heavy, it's not as heavyas it looks, it's a little bit
(22:20):
of an illusion.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
It's just the moment, it's a perception.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
And that's where we were going.
That's what we were talkingabout when we were talking about
meditation.
That, really, when it comes tomeditation, I think it is just
again.
I think it's just putting youin your place, it's recognizing
yeah, this is my problem's notthat big a deal.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
It really does do that for you and you know it's
funny when we were talking aboutthings that you know.
Maybe being grateful can reallybe a hard experience sometimes.
Yeah.
Being grateful can really be ahard experience sometimes.
Yeah, so my daughter, I had herright in the middle of the
pandemic.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Oh, bless your heart.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
And at first I was really upset about that.
Baby showers canceled, nobodyto be there with us in her first
moments, nobody to visit, andwhen you look at it that way
it's like, oh how terrible.
But really what I got was timewith just her.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
And I would not change that ever because I got
time to just be with her withoutdistraction.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
To really bond, and that was something I probably
would have never realized, thatI missed out on.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Had you know, it been a normal year yeah.
Where everybody's around allthe time, and I am deeply
grateful for that time.
Yeah, but, in the moment it waskind of a painful gratitude.
I was grateful for the time butI did miss my family and I did
(24:03):
really want that village to help.
You know it takes a village toraise a child but I honestly,
looking back, I would neverchange that.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
It takes a checking account to raise a child.
No, I understand what you'resaying, but again, going back to
our idea, you have to choosethat perspective because you can
absolutely.
This was a terrible time tohave a child.
And look at all the things thatI lost and look at all the
(24:38):
things that did not work out myway and I didn't get what I
wanted when I wanted it.
And again, does that meanyou're happy that your family
was not able to be a part ofyour daughter's life?
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Oh no, they were able to.
It just was later and in adifferent way, and I view it
that way.
It just it wasn't the same asit always had been in years past
, when people had children.
It was just different, andthat's okay.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Well, and I think what you're telling me is, it's
not only okay, it depends on howyou decide to look at what that
was.
You chose to look at this as myword is a blessing, and you
chose not to look at that as acurse, Because if you wanted to
(25:29):
make that a curse, you couldjust as easily call it a curse
If you wanted to make that acurse.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
You could just as easily call it a curse.
Oh, absolutely, and it is achoice, and every day we have to
make that choice to look at ita little more positively and I
think I really like that idea ofchoosing, gratitude of the
choice of you know, it is mychoice to feel this way.
(25:57):
It is empowering to think thatyou have really is a superpower.
You can look at anything, anyevent, and just be like.
You know, I'm going to chooseto look at this a little
different and if you look at itfrom that perspective, you've
got all the power in the worldto just be well.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
What kind of Pollyanna are you?
Why aren't you?
I mean, don't you recognize allthe power in the world to just
be well?
What kind of Pollyanna are you?
Why aren't you?
I mean, don't you recognize allthe problems, Don't you?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
recognize all the things that you really are
missing out on.
Oh, I do, but I can't changethat.
Like this is, I can understandand I can sympathize and I can
deeply feel and have compassionfor these things.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
But in the end, if I don't choose to do something or
to look at this positively orfind a solution, what am I
really doing?
I'm just sitting there andlooking at it and saying that's
a problem and that's it.
And that's not helpful.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Well, but you recognize it.
I mean, I'm sure your familywas not excited that they
weren't able to see your baby.
No, got it.
I appreciate that.
I'm glad that that's the waythey feel and that's really the
way you want them to feel,because if they felt differently
, that would probably mean thatthe relationship was not what
(27:15):
you wanted it to be.
But by the same token and thisis something that I'm guessing
you've heard before when youstart arguing for your
shortcomings, when you startarguing for your weaknesses,
when you start arguing for thethings that are not going your
way, you get to keep them.
When you start arguing for thethings that are not going your
(27:36):
way, you get to keep them.
You get to be as miserable asyou want to make yourself.
And I think one of the thingsthat I appreciate what you're
talking about again, and it'skind of going back to that
simple idea of meditation,centering yourself and choosing
what you're going to focus on.
Because if you want to focus onall the crud that's going on
(27:58):
around you, you can, or you can,focus on the things and look at
it in a way that makes you notonly better but grateful.
Do you see what I'm saying?
Do you agree with this?
Speaker 2 (28:11):
I absolutely agree with it when you do find the
time.
I absolutely agree with it whenyou do find the time to
meditate and it's anywhere, likesitting in this chair or
whatever you can.
Just it's not something thatyou have to get a special
cushion for or be in a dark room.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Wait a minute.
Wait a minute.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
I saw the commercial.
No, you can, it's anywhere.
And for however –you don't haveto meditate for hours, you know
, just breathing in andbreathing out and understanding
that you're present, and that isa beautiful thing.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
That sounds too simple.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
It's that simple.
I think that you know there wassomething that I read.
It was talking about whenmeditation was first coming over
into the western world and thatthat was the first reaction.
Like it was almost too simplebecause we expect a process or
what, or like one of thequestions was well, what do you?
(29:06):
What do you do?
Like like it's an action, likeyou have to do a thing, and that
that's where the hardest thingis.
It's because it's literally youdo nothing, and sometimes it is
you think about nothing and youjust sit.
And that's really nice too,because you can just no, it's
not.
Oh, I love it.
Like there's a you know you gota lot going on and you find,
(29:28):
like you know, a minute to justsit.
It really can give you a reset.
It's gratifying just to be like, yes, I have a moment to just
let it go for a minute and thenI jump right back in and I'm 10
times more productive.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Listen to you Now.
You took it right back toproductivity.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
I know, listen, I'm not perfect, I know.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Well, no, I understand that, and I think
what you haven't argued for andI think you don't need to it's
that idea of balance.
It's that idea.
Again, what I would say is youneed to choose your values, or
your values will be chosen foryou, or your values will be
chosen for you.
And the thing I don't thinkmost people do is in
(30:24):
Christianity.
One of the things is we have anendless supply of guilt for not
reading enough of the Bible,and the idea is that, however
much Bible you've consumed, it'snot enough.
And there's an endless supplyof okay, you need to do this
more, you need to understandthis better.
And you're not good enough.
By the way, which is true, noneof us are, and that's kind of
the entire idea that we are notgood enough, that we did need a
(30:47):
Savior, blah, blah, blah, blahblah, and I don't disagree with
that, and I don't disagree withthat.
But I think one of the things,that, on the opposite side of
this, that if you would centeryourself on the things that
(31:08):
actually make a difference, thatare important, and focus on the
things that you can honestlystart thinking on and again,
this is in Philippians thinkingon good things, thinking on
productive things, thinking onthings that make you better.
You probably will get better.
If you just talk about, if youjust focus on the things that
are not important to you butimportant to somebody else, you
will live somebody else's values.
You will live somebody else'slife, and I don't think that's
very helpful, and I think one ofthe things that you're talking
(31:29):
about really, with that, I don'tknow.
Let me just ask this question,because it needs to become a
question at some point.
Candice, you basically saidfocus on your breath, but I
don't think that's all you do,is it?
You invite somebody to sit on abench with you and you invite
your friends and then eventuallystart inviting your enemies.
(31:51):
How else can we meditate?
What can we do to makeourselves better?
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Well, there's all sorts of different meditations
out there, and these are justones that I've done or
experienced.
There's even some called thebody scan, where you just lay
down in a comfortable positionand you just focus on one muscle
group at a time, or one part ata time and relax.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
That sounds so woo-woo.
Come on, it does, it does, comeon.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
It does.
But you don't realize how muchtension you carry in your
forehead until somebody tellsyou to relax it.
And then it's like holy cow, orlike I was doing a guided
meditation and they said or likeI was doing a guided meditation
and they said relax your jaw.
And I'm like it is relaxed.
I'm thinking to myself and Isay it in that tone in my head,
(32:47):
which is not very zen of me, andI finally, you know, I just let
it go and I realized, wow, thatwas a lot of tension.
I'm just like woo-woo, as thesethings sound.
It's very grounded in justrelaxation and letting go of
some tension, because if you'reconstantly carrying around a
tight jaw all day, it's going tohurt.
(33:08):
You're going to get a headache.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
You're not going to be able to think very clearly.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
If you're in pain all the time, yeah, sometimes it is
just sitting and doing nothing,or sitting and breathing.
Other times it's practicinggratitude and focusing on what
you're, you know, grateful for.
But I've also used it as timeto meditate on those things that
maybe are not going so well andreally embracing my like.
(33:35):
There's a concept of like youidentify your suffering and then
you find the source of it, youtake care of it and you work it
through, and I really like thatpart of meditation as
uncomfortable as that sounds isthat if you're dealing with a
difficult time or a difficultfeeling, and I mean that and I
(33:55):
understand the range of whatdifficult means you have to face
it and you can't just turn away.
You've got to look at thatsuffering and face it and really
grapple with why Do I feel thisway and then come up with how
do we take care of this?
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
One of the Buddhist practitioners that I follow.
He passed away recently withthey call him Faye.
He talks about taking care ofyour feelings, like anger and
sadness, and things like that asif they were a child.
Like you look at it and you'relike you sometimes even say like
you know, I hear you anger, Iwill take care of you and you
(34:35):
know.
It sounds so strange like to say, say that, like you don't want
to do that in your head thatsounds a lot strange but if you
try it, like there's somethingcathartic in that, like to to
recognize it and say like, hey,like I'm going to take care of
this thing right because itgives you a path forward, it
gives you an intention like I'mgoing to take care of this thing
(34:56):
and I'm going to calm it down,to go past it, to to help it
heal.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
I'm yeah, I think go past is the wrong word it's more
like you're going to recognizeit and and and help it, help
heal from that thing I'm sureyou've heard this, because what
you're talking about sounds likesomething I've heard about,
which is the verbalization ofyour fears that once you say it
out loud it sounds prettyridiculous.
(35:25):
But the problem is you keep onkeeping it in your head and the
things that in your head alwayssound worse than when they come
out your mouth.
I teach public speaking and oneof the things that I tell my
students every year is the voiceinside your head that says you
(35:45):
can't do this is not helping youand you need to try this.
I don't care if you're good atit, you just you need to have
enough experience to be able totell the voice in your head it's
an idiot and it needs to shutup because it's not helping you
get better.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
You know it's funny.
For some reason it reminded meof this.
I can't remember who said thisto me, but you have to have
courage to be a littleridiculous, you know.
Say it, yeah.
So what?
It sounds ridiculous.
Say it out loud, You'll realizethat things are a little bit
(36:23):
more insignificant, or that itis funny, or?
Speaker 1 (36:27):
whatever, or maybe it will make you feel better.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Like there was a book called the Happiness Trap and
it had a lot of differentexercises for dealing with
trauma.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
And some of them were just what we would call
ridiculous, like it was, youknow, singing songs, and it was
intentionally that way.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
It was made to help you realize that you know,
detach from that feeling alittle bit and see it from the
outside.
So it was really because youknow, you get embarrassed, like
I forgot.
I feel like it was.
It had something to do withlike a song, like you had to
sing this feeling into a song orsomething, and I wish I could
(37:08):
remember it.
But I remember thinking I don'tknow about that.
But then I just I did it and,lo and behold, that feeling
didn't really have any powerover me anymore.
So it's like if you have alittle courage to be a little
bit ridiculous, those negativefeelings don't have power over
(37:29):
you.
It's just a thing, it's just aperception you have.
It's not reality thing, it'sjust a perception you have.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
It's not reality.
You're right.
In the Christian life we talk alot about prayer and it is my
position, that it is my beliefthat prayer is mostly about us,
and it sounds like it's a lotlike your idea of what
meditation is, although I thinkit's distinct.
I think it's different, but Ithink one of the things you're
(37:58):
not going to surprise God withwhat you're going to say I
believe in a God that knows whatwe're thinking before we do and
that has omniscience.
In other words, he knowseverything.
And really, I think one of thethings that prayer does for us
is it reveals to us what wethink is important.
We keep on asking God forthings that we think is
(38:19):
important and I don't know thatwell, I do know we're not very
good judges of that.
We don't.
I can see you nodding your head.
None of you can see this.
I can see you nodding your head.
None of you can see this.
I can.
I worry about some truly stupidstuff.
(38:39):
I'm not going to stop worryingabout it, but I think what
you're talking about there isjust being able to focus, being
able to figure out that noteverything.
Number one usually the worstthings don't happen.
Number two, and the worstthings aren't usually all that
bad and I probably survive it.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Like that, that's that right there, you'll
probably survive it.
Like, sometimes, before I, youknow, got into Stoicism and
Buddhism and all of this, I hadthat tendency to kind of go down
the infinite rabbit hole oflike what if, what if, what if?
Speaker 1 (39:20):
what if?
Speaker 2 (39:22):
And then one time my husband turns to me and said so
what, what if let's play it out?
And so we go through theabsolute worst that could
possibly happen and we just sayit out loud Could lose our job,
have no money, have no car.
And then he's like but here youare, you know, and you're still
(39:46):
there.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
You know you still have an opportunity to do, to be
and be present, and that wasvery eye-opening for me at the
moment you know, and it's true,like no matter how bad things
got, there was still, I wasstill here.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Well, and let me kind of bring it back to what we're
talking about, even if it's alltaken away, there's still
something to be grateful for.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
It's true.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
I know You've got a daughter at this point.
How cool is that.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
It's pretty awesome.
She's a cool kid.
She's a cool kid.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
But you know, I even thought about you know he's like
.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
Well, what if you?
Speaker 2 (40:34):
died.
I'm like, okay, yeah, what if Idid?
Uh-huh, I had time, I was hereI got to be present on earth for
35 beautiful years, and I havea daughter oh my goodness, your
child, first of all, your child.
And she would remember me.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
And I know that that would be in a positive light.
And I don't have a relationshipwith my mother, so I can be
very grateful for the fact thatmy daughter, even at this young
age, is choosing to love me.
That is very much a choice.
And she wants to be there and toplay, love me.
That is very much a choice andshe wants to be there and to
(41:20):
play.
And that makes me insanelygrateful because I understand
what it is to have the oppositeand not to have to choose.
You know, to choose that youcannot have that relationship
with someone and no matter what,like even if I, you know I
walked out the door and passedaway.
Today I'm fine, like that'sokay.
(41:41):
The world will go on In my view.
I will continue on in otherways, you know, through my
daughter, through my family, butalso grass and trees and
everything else that's, you know, as morbid as it sounds, stems
from me dying.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Right.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
And that is okay.
A cloud never dies is what theywould say.
It just becomes something else.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Yeah, I think all of us have that fear of death.
I mean, as a Christian, I dobelieve in an afterlife.
That involves heaven and thingslike that.
And one of the things that Iargue pretty strongly is I don't
think too many people havelooked at heaven as a real
estate deal and I don't thinkit's all that important.
The place I don't think is allthat important.
(42:31):
I think we often idolize heavenand that's a mistake.
I think the value is therelationship, because I think
I've been some really coolplaces, but it's more fun when
(42:54):
my wife is there.
And you know it's.
It's kind of like that,wherever I'm living and my wife
is there, that's home, but ifshe's not there, that's not home
anymore.
Yeah, and that's that'ssomething that's really
important to me, and I think,especially Christianity and
(43:17):
Christians who get hung up onthe concept of streets of gold
and things like that, they'remissing the most important part.
I don't know if Buddhismbelieves in this, but I suspect
it does that idea ofrelationship, trumping stuff oh,
I guess, like material thingscome and go no, are you serious?
Speaker 2 (43:39):
they're just like I'm sorry, but your permanent
marker is not actually permanent.
Um, that's, but that'swonderful.
Nothing is Nothing is permanent.
My daughter, as she is, is notpermanent, so she's no longer
(43:59):
going to be a little kid.
She was a baby.
She's now somewhere between atoddler and a kid, whatever four
is.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
Precocious as my four is.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
Oh, yes, yeah, and she'll become a teenager and
adult, so she's not permanentand I I'm grateful for my time
with her and she is where that Ican really identify with the,
the statement wherever your wifeis is home, and for me,
(44:31):
wherever she is and wherever myhusband is, that that's home for
me.
Yeah, when I grew up, like um,I didn't have a stable place to
stay.
We moved, I swear, every month.
Um, people would ask me youknow where do you live?
And I'd have to like, thinkabout it.
Um, how many places did youlive?
Yeah, one, one minute.
You know, my mom didn't havetwo pennies to rub together,
(44:54):
nothing.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Oh bless her heart.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
So we were all over the place.
But I really am grateful forthat, because then I realized
like home wasn't a place.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
Home was a feeling like with my sister.
Yeah, home was sometimes withmy dad, you know, when we'd
spend time with him, and nowit's, you know, with my daughter
and my family, wherever theyare.
That's home.
Places change, we move, thingschange, but that love that
(45:30):
doesn't change.
It grows and maybe it doeschange over time, depending on
the circumstance.
I won't deny that, but thatfeeling stays, those memories
stay, and that's really nice.
That's home and something to begrateful for when they start
rolling eyes.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
That, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
But that said, I think, one of the things you
said and I don't even know ifyou knew you said it it's that
gratitude, that you're gratefulto be with your daughter.
And again you get to choose that.
And again and we've kind oftalked about this and we've kind
of talked around it, but we'vedirectly addressed it as well.
We've kind of talked around it,but we've directly addressed it
as well the idea of gratitude.
(46:13):
In my opinion, the biggestvalue of it is it changes you
for the better, it makes you abetter person, and really,
gratitude.
It's easy to say this and it'shard to do, because all of us
know this is hard to do, but itreally is a choice.
(46:34):
You get the facts of your lifebut then you get to choose the
way that you look at those facts.
And if you don't make thatchoice, you're an idiot because
you're now living somebodyelse's script.
If you want to make this good,you can make it good.
And again, I believe in God,you believe in Buddha, and what
(47:00):
we would say both say I think,is eventually this all works out
.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
Does that make sense?
Yeah, it does.
And like just to clarify like Idon't believe in Buddha as like
the same way as a God.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
And they're like Buddha was was a teacher, he was
like a real person, sure, sortof um that sort of thing.
And there's different, there'sdifferent types of buddhism,
like there's there's mahayana,there's um zen, there's all
tibetan buddhism, and everybodyhas their like a different view.
Sure, it's kind of like, well,I grew up christian, I grew up
(47:30):
pentecostal, and there weredifferences between the
Pentecostal and Baptist.
There was lots of differences.
So it's very similar, but in myview, my personal view in this,
because it's very different inthat I'm not sure that my God is
(47:50):
a person, you know, like sortof thing.
But it's very difficult toexplain because I think I'm
still wrapping my head around it, you know.
But I really agree with you onthe fact that it is a choice.
Like it's a choice to begrateful, and it's a hard choice
to make sometimes.
Speaker 1 (48:08):
It is.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
Many times it is the hardest choice to make, but it
is the best choice to make.
Sometimes it is many times itis the hardest choice to make,
but it is the best choice tomake.
If you can just find a reasonto be grateful, to be happy, or
just content or okay, or acceptthat you can pay it forward.
It's like the foundation tohappiness, to joy, to being okay
(48:31):
, and then you can pay thatforward to the rest of the
people that you interact with.
If you are.
If you think about it this way,you come to something with an
attitude of being grateful andnow you're having a more like
calm day that passes on towhoever you interact with.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
Right.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
That positivity goes forward Right, conversely, goes
forward Right, conversely.
Like if you're having a, youknow you're choosing a different
way.
Those interactions might look alot different.
They might be a little morenegative.
It might bring down othersrather than lift them up.
True, and so I see it like, yes, I am making a choice, but this
isn't just a choice for myself,like I'm choosing to be
(49:13):
grateful because now I realizethat has a bleed effect over to
other people.
So I'm always going to tellpeople to choose to be grateful
and choose to be positive.
Feel how you're feeling andthen choose to be positive and
grateful, Because you'll see,that's where the miracles happen
(49:36):
sometimes, you know.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
What are you thankful for this year?
Speaker 2 (49:41):
Oh, my daughter.
That's hands down, but also,honestly, this is my first year
at this job and I couldn't bemore grateful.
This is everything I hoped itwould be, and more.
I couldn't be more grateful.
This is everything I hoped itwould be, and more.
And the ability to cultivate mylearning and learn and grow is
incredible.
There's so much to be gratefulthis year.
(50:01):
I couldn't we could go onforever, I could list it but I'm
also grateful that I have thatmuch to be grateful for.
It's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
How about you?
Oh, I think all the triedanswers.
I'm grateful for my family.
I'm grateful for a job thatpays the bills, I'm grateful for
good-smelling shaving soap.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
True.
Speaker 1 (50:31):
Well, I mean, there's a story behind that.
Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (50:33):
Yeah, it just reminds me of, I know, my husband.
He's always he would try tofind the right clippers for his
beard and I know he's gratefulto find the right ones.
It just reminds me of him somuch.
Speaker 1 (50:46):
Yeah, I know, I know the stupidest things are things
that are fun for me, so that'sone of the things I like smell.
Smell is one of the things thatis kind of big for me.
So anyway, well, I tell youwhat I end all of my podcasts
with be good and do good.
What's good about findingthings to be grateful for?
(51:09):
Good about finding things to begrateful for.
Speaker 2 (51:18):
I'm trying to put it into words that don't try to be
profound, just no more.
I think it is that pay itforward effect, like that's the
beauty, like it's not justsomething that affects you.
That choice to be gratefulaffects everybody else in your
life yeah.
The people you interact with.
You can have a profound effecton someone else's life in such a
(51:42):
small way just because youchose to be grateful and you'll
find peace in that choice.
When you look at something andyou're like, wow, I can be
grateful for that, there's peacethere and I can't think of any
greater good than helping othersand finding peace.
Speaker 1 (52:06):
I can help you find some destruction, so don't Well,
Candice, I appreciate youtalking to me.
Speaker 2 (52:12):
No problem, thank you for to me.
No problem.
Thank you for inviting me.
This is fun.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
I appreciate Candice's perspective on
gratitude and meditation.
Episodes like this are easy toproduce, but hard for me to
apply because, frankly, it'soften difficult for me to look
on the bright side, especiallywhen the stakes are high, at
least in my perspective.
Candice, thank you for a hardconversation that ended up
(52:40):
making me better.
I recorded this episode beforeThanksgiving but was delayed for
a few reasons.
In the episode I talk aboutsomeone we knew was about to
pass away.
Well, that was my wife'sgrandmother, kate Petty.
We have known for a while.
Kate was not going to survivemuch longer and on December 3rd
(53:00):
she did pass.
So after Thanksgiving, when myfamily and I went to visit my
family in Kentucky a couple ofweeks later, we went to Atlanta
to attend her funeral of weekslater, we went to Atlanta to
attend her funeral.
Kate was feisty, sassy andsomeone I see in my own children
.
She was quiet but not shy, butshe loved her family and her God
(53:21):
fiercely, and that's somethingI admire and respect.
I've said before, in all crisisevents, heroes are born.
I don't talk a lot about this,but I watched my father-in-law,
dan Petty, once againdemonstrate why he's someone I
admire so much, after weeks ofbeing at his mother's bedside.
Dan did the messy work ofdealing with the details of
(53:42):
death.
Some heroes wear capes, butthis one wears ties and
continues to mind the tasks thatmakes everyone else's life
easier, and continues to mindthe tasks that makes everyone
else's life easier.
Of all the men I know, dan issomeone without ego.
He is a man of virtue andcharacter, or, as I prefer to
say, he's a decent guy.
(54:02):
I hope to return to regularepisodes now that both the
holidays and the unforeseen butexpected events are behind us.
I'm grateful for you.
I hope the things we talk aboutmake you a better Christian.
So until next time, let's begood and do good.
In this episode of Balancing the Christian Life, we
talk about the importance ofgratitude and meditation.
Welcome to Balancing theChristian Life.
I'm Dr Kenny Embry.
Join me as we discover how tobe better Christians and people
in the digital age.
Have you ever meditated?
(00:21):
I mean really meditated.
Have you ever meditated?
I mean really meditated, nottalking about burning incense or
crossing your legs, but I domean clearing your head and
focusing.
And if you said yes, then tellme why you're lying and then
tell me what do you have to lose?
For this episode, Iintentionally chose to speak
(00:43):
with Candice Nelson.
She's someone who is new at myuniversity, where she's working
in a division that helps usfaculty members integrate
technology and best teachingpractices in the classroom.
To be frank, this was both anopportunity to get to know a
(01:03):
colleague, but also tounderstand a different religion.
Candice is Buddhist.
Understand a different religion.
Candice is Buddhist.
No, I'm not converting toBuddhism, but because Buddhism
is renowned for its meditationpractices.
I think this is something I canlearn from and I'm grateful to
have the opportunity to do justthat.
Candice and I explore the heartof gratitude and in that
conversation we talk aboutmeditation and perspective.
(01:25):
You'll hear us discuss thepower of presence, the art of
acceptance and how both of ourrespective faiths use gratitude
as a tool for personal growth.
Listen closely as we unpack howgratitude can reshape your view
of life's challenges, enrichyour relationships and lead to
(01:48):
profound moments of peace.
What do you have to lose?
Well, maybe there's somethingwe can gain.
So let's start here.
What is gratitude?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
It's being aware of the beautiful and positive
things that you have in yourlife, understanding how powerful
those things are, being of thepresent moment, gratitude is
like the full experience of thepresent to me.
I try to spend at least sometime every day just appreciating
(02:24):
, wherever I'm at, the fact thatI woke up, the fact that I'm
breathing, you know.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah, I do know.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Sometimes it's just like I'm sitting in traffic.
But you know what?
I have a car.
I'm pretty grateful for that.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
You're not wrong.
We get so upset about thingsthat number one are outside of
our control.
Wrong, we get so upset aboutthings that number one are
outside of our control.
But number two there's a lotthat we have to be thankful for
to even have those problems.
This morning I got out of a bedthat most people do not sleep
(03:00):
in.
I live in a country that is notat war.
I got to eat some really okayfood, but I got to eat food
period.
So I mean, these are all thingsthat we can be grateful for,
and it's easy for us to getentitled.
It's easy for us to feel likeno, no, no, no, no, my life is
bad.
My life just is not workingbecause there are parts of it
(03:21):
that you'd like to be different.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
There's always a point like it's okay to feel
it's not the way that you wantit right now.
I understand that feeling, butto be grateful for what you have
in the moment is reallysomething that can cultivate a
lot of energy.
If you're thinking about it anddrive you to reach some goals
that you may want To appreciate.
What you have will make youhappy.
(03:44):
It's like the basis for beinghappy to me.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
How important is happiness?
Is happiness a big deal?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
I mean it's important , but it's not everything,
because there's other feelingsbesides that Happiness there's,
you know, just being content.
I find that a very pleasantfeeling.
I don't have to have a sense ofjoy.
Sometimes we conflate happinessand well-being.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
But gratitude leads to that sense of well-being
because you do appreciate all ofthose little things that happen
in your life.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
And honestly being grateful even for the things
that maybe we didn't want to gothrough or didn't want to
experience or didn't want, sothose led to where you are.
I remember getting in a caraccident.
I got rear-ended and I feltterrible.
(04:37):
Woe is me for a second.
And then I realized well, thisis just another opportunity,
I'll get it fixed, it'll be fine, and here I am, I've got a
better car.
You know, this is just anotheropportunity.
I'll get it fixed, it'll befine.
And here I am.
I've got a better car.
You know a little bit later.
You know it leads to somethingelse, but I wouldn't have gotten
here if that didn't happen.
So it's taught me just to begrateful for everything.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Well, one of the things that we talked about this
a little bit yesterday is thatyou are a Buddhist.
Yes, let me ask you this whatis the role of gratitude in
Buddhism?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
It's pretty much the foundation.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Really.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Yeah, that and understanding and compassion for
all people.
But gratitude, just being inthe present moment is a very big
part of my practice.
So living and appreciatingbreathing, so meditation is a
big thing.
So if I'm meditating, it mightbe breathing in and breathing
(05:34):
out and appreciating what ishappening in my body.
That's helping me live.
I think about that sense ofinterconnectedness with every
living thing.
You become grateful for thatand it changes your perspective
on how you view people andthings.
It's hard to explain and itstems from that gratitude of
(05:58):
being present and that's thefoundation for my Buddhism.
I will not say that I am anexpert, but I can definitely
speak from my personal practiceand my personal experiences.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Well, I've been a Christian for 55 years and I
would not call myself an experteither.
There is so much that I don'thave a clue about that idea of
meditation.
One of the things aboutChristianity is we are told to
meditate, but I don't know thatwe know how to do that very well
.
How do you meditate?
How do you center yourself?
What are some of the practicesthat you go through that help
(06:34):
you with this?
Speaker 2 (06:35):
It was a tough journey.
I will say that because—.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Oh, you're done.
You're done on that journey.
No, no, I'm not even nearlydone.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
When I do meditate, I just sit wherever I am and I
just focus on my breathing.
I'll just focus on myself, kindof breathing in and breathing
out.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
So it helps kind of calm the rush of thoughts and
then, oh, candice, that's waytoo simple.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
That's way too simple .
That's it.
That's all you got to do, Likethat's the secret sauce.
You just sit down and breathe.
It sounds simple and then youdo it.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
What's the challenge of it?
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Shutting off your brain, especially in our culture
.
It's a very project-driven,very attainment-driven, got to
keep doing, got to keepaccomplishing sort of culture.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Right, and what's wrong with that, Candice?
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Not a thing.
But I think it's harder whenyou're trying to calm your
thoughts and especially when youhave to sit down and do nothing
.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Well, yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
It essentially is what we perceive as doing
nothing.
Sometimes, when you say, well,I'm doing nothing, that's like a
negative.
You're not being productive howdare you?
But you are.
You're learning to calm,yourself, to calm your thoughts
and it brings a real sense ofclarity and perspective.
Now, not all meditation is justclear your mind, some of it.
(08:00):
There's one that's specificallyfor gratitude.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
And how does that go?
Speaker 2 (08:04):
You imagine yourself, so it's like kind of an
imagination thing.
So you sit and you imagineyourself in a garden of your
choosing on a bench, and there'sa fence and you imagine people
walking by that fence.
You start out with somebodyeasy, somebody where it's easy
to be grateful for them, and youinvite them to sit with you and
(08:25):
you tell them, you give them aflower and you explain why
you're grateful for them and youwish them their best and they
move on and slowly, throughoutthis practice, you deal with
more difficult people in yourlife, the people that maybe it's
harder to say that you'regrateful for or that you really
(08:47):
struggle.
But through that, throughthinking of that person or those
people that I have the mostcomplicated life with or
conversations with, I really dodevelop a deep appreciation for
them because they give my lifeperspective and I do wish them
(09:07):
well and it gives you that spaceinside of you to be
compassionate and understandingtoward them and I really like
that meditation in particular.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Is it mostly just a visualization exercise?
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yeah, it's very visual, at least for me.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
I see, see it you're not watching a movie.
This is, this is a vision inyour mind.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Yeah, yeah, it's just like a vision in your mind and
you're, you know, you're kind ofhearing it in your head, but
there's also that piece of youthat's kind of even in the
background, noticing what'shappening and those interactions
.
So it's like you know D&D butfor meditating.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
I don't think I've ever referenced Dungeons Dragons
on this.
This might be a first, but goahead.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Yes, but you're kind of role-playing it out.
You are facing people andthings that are easy and some
that are hard, and looking at itdirectly in a very comfortable
way.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Right.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
That you are inviting them into the space and you are
finding those things, that youcan be appreciative about them
and, I think, really buildingthat sense of compassion and
understanding.
It is critical to my outlook onlife and to developing a sense
of well-being and understanding.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Right.
I think one of the things thatall of us struggle with is not
getting what we want when wewant it.
You're probably familiar withthe character of Job in the Old
Testament.
Job is a character in the OldTestament who you're given a
backstage conversation with Godand the devil, and the devil
(11:02):
makes this argument.
You know, the only reason thatJob is following you is because
you keep on giving him all thisgreat stuff.
And God said take it all away.
See what happens.
And the problem is Job, who hasbeen righteous that's what
you're told at the verybeginning of the story.
(11:22):
He didn't do anything todeserve what he got.
But he has 10 children and thedevil takes all 10 of them,
kills them, he takes his health,he takes all of his possessions
and there comes a point atwhich all the things that he had
worked for that were franklygiven to him by the Lord and he
(11:47):
gets to the point where there'snot anything he can do anymore.
And it's that, I think, whatyou're describing that sense of
surrender, that there's notanything I can do.
And the test for Job was areyou going to denounce God or are
you going to take God on histerms?
And it sounds like that's a lotof what you're talking about
(12:08):
there as well.
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (12:12):
That's definitely part of it.
It's kind of just understandingwhat's in your control and
what's not.
This is a Stoic philosophy too,which is kind of what led me
into Buddhism later, which iskind of what led me into
Buddhism later.
There's things that you havecontrol over and things you do
not.
And you have to be okay andaccept, like you have to accept
(12:32):
that that's what's happening andyou can't let it destroy you,
or else what are you going to do?
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Well, I can think of some things that you might do.
I mean, I understand whatyou're saying, because you and I
could both name some people whogot really bitter.
And you can also, you and Icould both name some people that
decide to embrace victimhoodand just decide that victimhood
is going to be.
That's just going to be my tagright now, that I'm just going
(13:04):
to.
You guys aren't consideringthat I'm really going, that I'm
and this is something thathappens with my wife and I that
I didn't get a good night'ssleep, and so then it becomes a
one-upmanship game of well, Ididn't get enough sleep last
night, you got, and I get it.
Enough sleep last night, yougot and I get it.
(13:27):
And it's kind of a pettyargument, because now we're
trying to argue who has theleast amount of sleep, which is
not a game that I want to play,nor do I want to win.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
No, I'd imagine.
Not.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
But I think one of the things that you're kind of
talking about again, it's thatidea of centering yourself and
focusing on something thatreally makes you better is is
that right?
Is that accurate?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
and and honestly, just accepting things as they
are like even, even if it's notbetter at the moment um, you
can't change it, but you canaccept it, and then that's a
platform that you can use to getbetter, like you can use that
to.
If I just accept whatever'shappening to me.
You know, for example, I havemigraines all the time.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Well, my wife does too.
My wife does too.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
I can't do anything about that.
They exist, right, I can drinksome water, take my time and
then just keep going on andmoving.
Or my other choice is to sitthere and wallow and get all
upset that I have a headache andmake it worse.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
And you've never done that.
You've never gotten upset aboutthis stuff.
No, that's how I learned, is Igot upset?
Make it worse.
And you've never done that.
You've never gotten upset aboutthis stuff.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
No, that's how I learned is I got upset about it.
First Because I started gettingthem when I was very young, so
I didn't understand, you know,and of course I got, you know,
mad.
I can't see, I can't hear, likehear properly.
I can't even talk properly.
When I have them properly, Ican't even talk properly when I
(15:09):
have them.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
It's very frustrating .
Speaker 2 (15:09):
So I there was that tendency to want to wallow and
or be like woe is me, but youlearn well, I could do that and
just not be happy or realizeit's gonna go go away.
Everything is temporary.
That's.
Another thing that drew me toBuddhism is the idea of the
(15:32):
temporary nature of things.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
All things are temporary, including the
migraines.
Yeah, that's true.
Again, I think about things inmy Christian tradition where
there's a time for everything tohappen and there's a time again
it's that old bird song toeverything there's a season, a
(16:00):
time for war, a time for peaceand all of those things.
And I guess one of the thingsthat I would say is and I think
you would probably agree withthis there's a time to be
depressed and just wallow indepression.
But that time, in my opinionand I don't know if you would
agree with this is that thattime probably needs to be as
short as you can make it,because it's not a productive
(16:24):
time, but it might be something.
I mean, I'm thinking about afamily member that I know that
is going to die.
It's just, we know they'regoing to die and we know it's
going to be soon, and we knowwe're going to be sad, but we
also know at some point we'regoing to have to pick ourselves
(16:44):
up and move on.
And it's not because we didn'tlove them.
We will give them the time thatwe need, but we need to move on
.
Is this something you agreewith?
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Yeah, I do.
I'm thinking it made me thinkabout my great-grandmother.
For the longest time she hadAlzheimer's.
She had breast cancer.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Oh bless her.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
We knew it was coming , but she lived till she was 99
years old.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
And her funeral was a—we threw her the biggest party
, you know because that's whatshe would have wanted.
Were we sad?
Absolutely.
We were all there the day thatshe died.
We were all there with her?
did we cry?
Absolutely?
Yeah, um, we took time toreally feel it, to deeply feel
(17:33):
it.
Um, but part of like thebuddhist tradition for me has
been like you look at that, thatsuffering, that pain, and you
take care of it.
You really look at the sourceof that and the source of that
pain came from how much I lovedher and how much I would miss
(17:56):
her talking to me and herteaching.
And I realized that thatdoesn't go away.
Her teachings stay through thememories that I have of her and
she continues on in so manyother people in so many other
ways.
She was a teacher for years,like her whole career.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
And I think about her .
Students showed up to herfuneral.
Oh isn't that wonderful.
Yeah, I mean, she was 99 yearsold and they show, you know, to
have that kind of an impact.
People leave, but they don'treally leave.
Pieces of them are here, theycontinue on and that, to me, is
very helpful.
(18:39):
But I think kind of, I'm kindof getting a little off track
but, but it's okay to deeplyfeel something to really look at
it.
But if you live there, it's apretty dark place to be it can
be.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
I think again going back to the topic that we're
talking about, gratitude is notalways a happy feeling.
Gratitude is not alwayssomething that makes us feel
great.
Do you agree with that?
Speaker 2 (19:14):
In a way.
I think there's been someexperiences I've had that I'm
grateful for that.
I would have rather not havegone through, that's for sure.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but they makeyou the person you are.
They really do.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
I got to kick my daughter out of the house
Exciting times because she gotmarried.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
And I'm sad on one hand, but I'm really happy for
it and, frankly, I'm justgrateful that I got to be there
for a while.
Look, I think I'm glad not tobe paying for it anymore.
I'm very grateful for that.
(20:02):
But that said, I think one ofthe things and you've got one,
I've got four the parent'sjourney is different than I
thought it would be, and I guessthe biggest blessing for me
would be to recognize I'm notall that important and that I'm
(20:25):
kind of insignificant in thegrand scheme of things is a very
good thing.
Oh yeah, I'm replaceable.
That's probably good that I'monly going to be in these kids'
lives, my students' lives.
I'm important to them for maybefour years and that's it.
But it's one of the things thatI talk to my students about.
(20:49):
They won't remember what wetalk about in the classroom,
they just won't.
But they'll remember how theyfelt, they'll remember things
that they probably won't thinkthey'll remember Again.
They'll cram for the final,they'll cram for the midterm and
(21:11):
they won't remember any of it.
I think that when it comes toagain and it's the beauty of
being a teacher, the beauty ofbeing an educator, the beauty of
being somebody who can helpother people.
I guess that's one of thethings that I really appreciate,
that there is gratitude inplaying a small role.
Again, it's that idea that youaren't all that important.
(21:38):
Is this something that yourecognize?
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
How so.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
So when I think about it, I like to play a little
mind game sometimes.
Oh, you do I like to imagine mysize compared to the rest of
the universe, my problemscompared to all of that, you
know.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
And I realized it doesn't really matter that much.
You know, in the grand schemeof things I am so small and that
sounds depressing, but when youreally think about it it's not.
It's very freeing to realizethat you, while these things
feel so heavy, it's not as heavyas it looks, it's a little bit
(22:20):
of an illusion.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
It's just the moment, it's a perception.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
And that's where we were going.
That's what we were talkingabout when we were talking about
meditation.
That, really, when it comes tomeditation, I think it is just
again.
I think it's just putting youin your place, it's recognizing
yeah, this is my problem's notthat big a deal.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
It really does do that for you and you know it's
funny when we were talking aboutthings that you know.
Maybe being grateful can reallybe a hard experience sometimes.
Yeah.
Being grateful can really be ahard experience sometimes.
Yeah, so my daughter, I had herright in the middle of the
pandemic.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Oh, bless your heart.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
And at first I was really upset about that.
Baby showers canceled, nobodyto be there with us in her first
moments, nobody to visit, andwhen you look at it that way
it's like, oh how terrible.
But really what I got was timewith just her.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
And I would not change that ever because I got
time to just be with her withoutdistraction.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
To really bond, and that was something I probably
would have never realized, thatI missed out on.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Had you know, it been a normal year yeah.
Where everybody's around allthe time, and I am deeply
grateful for that time.
Yeah, but, in the moment it waskind of a painful gratitude.
I was grateful for the time butI did miss my family and I did
(24:03):
really want that village to help.
You know it takes a village toraise a child but I honestly,
looking back, I would neverchange that.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
It takes a checking account to raise a child.
No, I understand what you'resaying, but again, going back to
our idea, you have to choosethat perspective because you can
absolutely.
This was a terrible time tohave a child.
And look at all the things thatI lost and look at all the
(24:38):
things that did not work out myway and I didn't get what I
wanted when I wanted it.
And again, does that meanyou're happy that your family
was not able to be a part ofyour daughter's life?
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Oh no, they were able to.
It just was later and in adifferent way, and I view it
that way.
It just it wasn't the same asit always had been in years past
, when people had children.
It was just different, andthat's okay.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Well, and I think what you're telling me is, it's
not only okay, it depends on howyou decide to look at what that
was.
You chose to look at this as myword is a blessing, and you
chose not to look at that as acurse, Because if you wanted to
(25:29):
make that a curse, you couldjust as easily call it a curse
If you wanted to make that acurse.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
You could just as easily call it a curse.
Oh, absolutely, and it is achoice, and every day we have to
make that choice to look at ita little more positively and I
think I really like that idea ofchoosing, gratitude of the
choice of you know, it is mychoice to feel this way.
(25:57):
It is empowering to think thatyou have really is a superpower.
You can look at anything, anyevent, and just be like.
You know, I'm going to chooseto look at this a little
different and if you look at itfrom that perspective, you've
got all the power in the worldto just be well.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
What kind of Pollyanna are you?
Why aren't you?
I mean, don't you recognize allthe power in the world to just
be well?
What kind of Pollyanna are you?
Why aren't you?
I mean, don't you recognize allthe problems, Don't you?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
recognize all the things that you really are
missing out on.
Oh, I do, but I can't changethat.
Like this is, I can understandand I can sympathize and I can
deeply feel and have compassionfor these things.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
But in the end, if I don't choose to do something or
to look at this positively orfind a solution, what am I
really doing?
I'm just sitting there andlooking at it and saying that's
a problem and that's it.
And that's not helpful.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Well, but you recognize it.
I mean, I'm sure your familywas not excited that they
weren't able to see your baby.
No, got it.
I appreciate that.
I'm glad that that's the waythey feel and that's really the
way you want them to feel,because if they felt differently
, that would probably mean thatthe relationship was not what
(27:15):
you wanted it to be.
But by the same token and thisis something that I'm guessing
you've heard before when youstart arguing for your
shortcomings, when you startarguing for your weaknesses,
when you start arguing for thethings that are not going your
way, you get to keep them.
When you start arguing for thethings that are not going your
(27:36):
way, you get to keep them.
You get to be as miserable asyou want to make yourself.
And I think one of the thingsthat I appreciate what you're
talking about again, and it'skind of going back to that
simple idea of meditation,centering yourself and choosing
what you're going to focus on.
Because if you want to focus onall the crud that's going on
(27:58):
around you, you can, or you can,focus on the things and look at
it in a way that makes you notonly better but grateful.
Do you see what I'm saying?
Do you agree with this?
Speaker 2 (28:11):
I absolutely agree with it when you do find the
time.
I absolutely agree with it whenyou do find the time to
meditate and it's anywhere, likesitting in this chair or
whatever you can.
Just it's not something thatyou have to get a special
cushion for or be in a dark room.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Wait a minute.
Wait a minute.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
I saw the commercial.
No, you can, it's anywhere.
And for however –you don't haveto meditate for hours, you know
, just breathing in andbreathing out and understanding
that you're present, and that isa beautiful thing.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
That sounds too simple.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
It's that simple.
I think that you know there wassomething that I read.
It was talking about whenmeditation was first coming over
into the western world and thatthat was the first reaction.
Like it was almost too simplebecause we expect a process or
what, or like one of thequestions was well, what do you?
(29:06):
What do you do?
Like like it's an action, likeyou have to do a thing, and that
that's where the hardest thingis.
It's because it's literally youdo nothing, and sometimes it is
you think about nothing and youjust sit.
And that's really nice too,because you can just no, it's
not.
Oh, I love it.
Like there's a you know you gota lot going on and you find,
(29:28):
like you know, a minute to justsit.
It really can give you a reset.
It's gratifying just to be like, yes, I have a moment to just
let it go for a minute and thenI jump right back in and I'm 10
times more productive.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Listen to you Now.
You took it right back toproductivity.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
I know, listen, I'm not perfect, I know.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Well, no, I understand that, and I think
what you haven't argued for andI think you don't need to it's
that idea of balance.
It's that idea.
Again, what I would say is youneed to choose your values, or
your values will be chosen foryou, or your values will be
chosen for you.
And the thing I don't thinkmost people do is in
(30:24):
Christianity.
One of the things is we have anendless supply of guilt for not
reading enough of the Bible,and the idea is that, however
much Bible you've consumed, it'snot enough.
And there's an endless supplyof okay, you need to do this
more, you need to understandthis better.
And you're not good enough.
By the way, which is true, noneof us are, and that's kind of
the entire idea that we are notgood enough, that we did need a
(30:47):
Savior, blah, blah, blah, blahblah, and I don't disagree with
that, and I don't disagree withthat.
But I think one of the things,that, on the opposite side of
this, that if you would centeryourself on the things that
(31:08):
actually make a difference, thatare important, and focus on the
things that you can honestlystart thinking on and again,
this is in Philippians thinkingon good things, thinking on
productive things, thinking onthings that make you better.
You probably will get better.
If you just talk about, if youjust focus on the things that
are not important to you butimportant to somebody else, you
will live somebody else's values.
You will live somebody else'slife, and I don't think that's
very helpful, and I think one ofthe things that you're talking
(31:29):
about really, with that, I don'tknow.
Let me just ask this question,because it needs to become a
question at some point.
Candice, you basically saidfocus on your breath, but I
don't think that's all you do,is it?
You invite somebody to sit on abench with you and you invite
your friends and then eventuallystart inviting your enemies.
(31:51):
How else can we meditate?
What can we do to makeourselves better?
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Well, there's all sorts of different meditations
out there, and these are justones that I've done or
experienced.
There's even some called thebody scan, where you just lay
down in a comfortable positionand you just focus on one muscle
group at a time, or one part ata time and relax.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
That sounds so woo-woo.
Come on, it does, it does, comeon.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
It does.
But you don't realize how muchtension you carry in your
forehead until somebody tellsyou to relax it.
And then it's like holy cow, orlike I was doing a guided
meditation and they said or likeI was doing a guided meditation
and they said relax your jaw.
And I'm like it is relaxed.
I'm thinking to myself and Isay it in that tone in my head,
(32:47):
which is not very zen of me, andI finally, you know, I just let
it go and I realized, wow, thatwas a lot of tension.
I'm just like woo-woo, as thesethings sound.
It's very grounded in justrelaxation and letting go of
some tension, because if you'reconstantly carrying around a
tight jaw all day, it's going tohurt.
(33:08):
You're going to get a headache.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
You're not going to be able to think very clearly.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
If you're in pain all the time, yeah, sometimes it is
just sitting and doing nothing,or sitting and breathing.
Other times it's practicinggratitude and focusing on what
you're, you know, grateful for.
But I've also used it as timeto meditate on those things that
maybe are not going so well andreally embracing my like.
(33:35):
There's a concept of like youidentify your suffering and then
you find the source of it, youtake care of it and you work it
through, and I really like thatpart of meditation as
uncomfortable as that sounds isthat if you're dealing with a
difficult time or a difficultfeeling, and I mean that and I
(33:55):
understand the range of whatdifficult means you have to face
it and you can't just turn away.
You've got to look at thatsuffering and face it and really
grapple with why Do I feel thisway and then come up with how
do we take care of this?
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
One of the Buddhist practitioners that I follow.
He passed away recently withthey call him Faye.
He talks about taking care ofyour feelings, like anger and
sadness, and things like that asif they were a child.
Like you look at it and you'relike you sometimes even say like
you know, I hear you anger, Iwill take care of you and you
(34:35):
know.
It sounds so strange like to say, say that, like you don't want
to do that in your head thatsounds a lot strange but if you
try it, like there's somethingcathartic in that, like to to
recognize it and say like, hey,like I'm going to take care of
this thing right because itgives you a path forward, it
gives you an intention like I'mgoing to take care of this thing
(34:56):
and I'm going to calm it down,to go past it, to to help it
heal.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
I'm yeah, I think go past is the wrong word it's more
like you're going to recognizeit and and and help it, help
heal from that thing I'm sureyou've heard this, because what
you're talking about sounds likesomething I've heard about,
which is the verbalization ofyour fears that once you say it
out loud it sounds prettyridiculous.
(35:25):
But the problem is you keep onkeeping it in your head and the
things that in your head alwayssound worse than when they come
out your mouth.
I teach public speaking and oneof the things that I tell my
students every year is the voiceinside your head that says you
(35:45):
can't do this is not helping youand you need to try this.
I don't care if you're good atit, you just you need to have
enough experience to be able totell the voice in your head it's
an idiot and it needs to shutup because it's not helping you
get better.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
You know it's funny.
For some reason it reminded meof this.
I can't remember who said thisto me, but you have to have
courage to be a littleridiculous, you know.
Say it, yeah.
So what?
It sounds ridiculous.
Say it out loud, You'll realizethat things are a little bit
(36:23):
more insignificant, or that itis funny, or?
Speaker 1 (36:27):
whatever, or maybe it will make you feel better.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Like there was a book called the Happiness Trap and
it had a lot of differentexercises for dealing with
trauma.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
And some of them were just what we would call
ridiculous, like it was, youknow, singing songs, and it was
intentionally that way.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
It was made to help you realize that you know,
detach from that feeling alittle bit and see it from the
outside.
So it was really because youknow, you get embarrassed, like
I forgot.
I feel like it was.
It had something to do withlike a song, like you had to
sing this feeling into a song orsomething, and I wish I could
(37:08):
remember it.
But I remember thinking I don'tknow about that.
But then I just I did it and,lo and behold, that feeling
didn't really have any powerover me anymore.
So it's like if you have alittle courage to be a little
bit ridiculous, those negativefeelings don't have power over
(37:29):
you.
It's just a thing, it's just aperception you have.
It's not reality thing, it'sjust a perception you have.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
It's not reality.
You're right.
In the Christian life we talk alot about prayer and it is my
position, that it is my beliefthat prayer is mostly about us,
and it sounds like it's a lotlike your idea of what
meditation is, although I thinkit's distinct.
I think it's different, but Ithink one of the things you're
(37:58):
not going to surprise God withwhat you're going to say I
believe in a God that knows whatwe're thinking before we do and
that has omniscience.
In other words, he knowseverything.
And really, I think one of thethings that prayer does for us
is it reveals to us what wethink is important.
We keep on asking God forthings that we think is
(38:19):
important and I don't know thatwell, I do know we're not very
good judges of that.
We don't.
I can see you nodding your head.
None of you can see this.
I can see you nodding your head.
None of you can see this.
I can.
I worry about some truly stupidstuff.
(38:39):
I'm not going to stop worryingabout it, but I think what
you're talking about there isjust being able to focus, being
able to figure out that noteverything.
Number one usually the worstthings don't happen.
Number two, and the worstthings aren't usually all that
bad and I probably survive it.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Like that, that's that right there, you'll
probably survive it.
Like, sometimes, before I, youknow, got into Stoicism and
Buddhism and all of this, I hadthat tendency to kind of go down
the infinite rabbit hole oflike what if, what if, what if?
Speaker 1 (39:20):
what if?
Speaker 2 (39:22):
And then one time my husband turns to me and said so
what, what if let's play it out?
And so we go through theabsolute worst that could
possibly happen and we just sayit out loud Could lose our job,
have no money, have no car.
And then he's like but here youare, you know, and you're still
(39:46):
there.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
You know you still have an opportunity to do, to be
and be present, and that wasvery eye-opening for me at the
moment you know, and it's true,like no matter how bad things
got, there was still, I wasstill here.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Well, and let me kind of bring it back to what we're
talking about, even if it's alltaken away, there's still
something to be grateful for.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
It's true.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
I know You've got a daughter at this point.
How cool is that.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
It's pretty awesome.
She's a cool kid.
She's a cool kid.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
But you know, I even thought about you know he's like
.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
Well, what if you?
Speaker 2 (40:34):
died.
I'm like, okay, yeah, what if Idid?
Uh-huh, I had time, I was hereI got to be present on earth for
35 beautiful years, and I havea daughter oh my goodness, your
child, first of all, your child.
And she would remember me.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
And I know that that would be in a positive light.
And I don't have a relationshipwith my mother, so I can be
very grateful for the fact thatmy daughter, even at this young
age, is choosing to love me.
That is very much a choice.
And she wants to be there and toplay, love me.
That is very much a choice andshe wants to be there and to
(41:20):
play.
And that makes me insanelygrateful because I understand
what it is to have the oppositeand not to have to choose.
You know, to choose that youcannot have that relationship
with someone and no matter what,like even if I, you know I
walked out the door and passedaway.
Today I'm fine, like that'sokay.
(41:41):
The world will go on In my view.
I will continue on in otherways, you know, through my
daughter, through my family, butalso grass and trees and
everything else that's, you know, as morbid as it sounds, stems
from me dying.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Right.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
And that is okay.
A cloud never dies is what theywould say.
It just becomes something else.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Yeah, I think all of us have that fear of death.
I mean, as a Christian, I dobelieve in an afterlife.
That involves heaven and thingslike that.
And one of the things that Iargue pretty strongly is I don't
think too many people havelooked at heaven as a real
estate deal and I don't thinkit's all that important.
The place I don't think is allthat important.
(42:31):
I think we often idolize heavenand that's a mistake.
I think the value is therelationship, because I think
I've been some really coolplaces, but it's more fun when
(42:54):
my wife is there.
And you know it's.
It's kind of like that,wherever I'm living and my wife
is there, that's home, but ifshe's not there, that's not home
anymore.
Yeah, and that's that'ssomething that's really
important to me, and I think,especially Christianity and
(43:17):
Christians who get hung up onthe concept of streets of gold
and things like that, they'remissing the most important part.
I don't know if Buddhismbelieves in this, but I suspect
it does that idea ofrelationship, trumping stuff oh,
I guess, like material thingscome and go no, are you serious?
Speaker 2 (43:39):
they're just like I'm sorry, but your permanent
marker is not actually permanent.
Um, that's, but that'swonderful.
Nothing is Nothing is permanent.
My daughter, as she is, is notpermanent, so she's no longer
(43:59):
going to be a little kid.
She was a baby.
She's now somewhere between atoddler and a kid, whatever four
is.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
Precocious as my four is.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
Oh, yes, yeah, and she'll become a teenager and
adult, so she's not permanentand I I'm grateful for my time
with her and she is where that Ican really identify with the,
the statement wherever your wifeis is home, and for me,
(44:31):
wherever she is and wherever myhusband is, that that's home for
me.
Yeah, when I grew up, like um,I didn't have a stable place to
stay.
We moved, I swear, every month.
Um, people would ask me youknow where do you live?
And I'd have to like, thinkabout it.
Um, how many places did youlive?
Yeah, one, one minute.
You know, my mom didn't havetwo pennies to rub together,
(44:54):
nothing.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Oh bless her heart.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
So we were all over the place.
But I really am grateful forthat, because then I realized
like home wasn't a place.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
Home was a feeling like with my sister.
Yeah, home was sometimes withmy dad, you know, when we'd
spend time with him, and nowit's, you know, with my daughter
and my family, wherever theyare.
That's home.
Places change, we move, thingschange, but that love that
(45:30):
doesn't change.
It grows and maybe it doeschange over time, depending on
the circumstance.
I won't deny that, but thatfeeling stays, those memories
stay, and that's really nice.
That's home and something to begrateful for when they start
rolling eyes.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
That, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
But that said, I think, one of the things you
said and I don't even know ifyou knew you said it it's that
gratitude, that you're gratefulto be with your daughter.
And again you get to choose that.
And again and we've kind oftalked about this and we've kind
of talked around it, but we'vedirectly addressed it as well.
We've kind of talked around it,but we've directly addressed it
as well the idea of gratitude.
(46:13):
In my opinion, the biggestvalue of it is it changes you
for the better, it makes you abetter person, and really,
gratitude.
It's easy to say this and it'shard to do, because all of us
know this is hard to do, but itreally is a choice.
(46:34):
You get the facts of your lifebut then you get to choose the
way that you look at those facts.
And if you don't make thatchoice, you're an idiot because
you're now living somebodyelse's script.
If you want to make this good,you can make it good.
And again, I believe in God,you believe in Buddha, and what
(47:00):
we would say both say I think,is eventually this all works out
.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
Does that make sense?
Yeah, it does.
And like just to clarify like Idon't believe in Buddha as like
the same way as a God.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
And they're like Buddha was was a teacher, he was
like a real person, sure, sortof um that sort of thing.
And there's different, there'sdifferent types of buddhism,
like there's there's mahayana,there's um zen, there's all
tibetan buddhism, and everybodyhas their like a different view.
Sure, it's kind of like, well,I grew up christian, I grew up
(47:30):
pentecostal, and there weredifferences between the
Pentecostal and Baptist.
There was lots of differences.
So it's very similar, but in myview, my personal view in this,
because it's very different inthat I'm not sure that my God is
(47:50):
a person, you know, like sortof thing.
But it's very difficult toexplain because I think I'm
still wrapping my head around it, you know.
But I really agree with you onthe fact that it is a choice.
Like it's a choice to begrateful, and it's a hard choice
to make sometimes.
Speaker 1 (48:08):
It is.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
Many times it is the hardest choice to make, but it
is the best choice to make.
Sometimes it is many times itis the hardest choice to make,
but it is the best choice tomake.
If you can just find a reasonto be grateful, to be happy, or
just content or okay, or acceptthat you can pay it forward.
It's like the foundation tohappiness, to joy, to being okay
(48:31):
, and then you can pay thatforward to the rest of the
people that you interact with.
If you are.
If you think about it this way,you come to something with an
attitude of being grateful andnow you're having a more like
calm day that passes on towhoever you interact with.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
Right.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
That positivity goes forward Right, conversely, goes
forward Right, conversely.
Like if you're having a, youknow you're choosing a different
way.
Those interactions might look alot different.
They might be a little morenegative.
It might bring down othersrather than lift them up.
True, and so I see it like, yes, I am making a choice, but this
isn't just a choice for myself,like I'm choosing to be
(49:13):
grateful because now I realizethat has a bleed effect over to
other people.
So I'm always going to tellpeople to choose to be grateful
and choose to be positive.
Feel how you're feeling andthen choose to be positive and
grateful, Because you'll see,that's where the miracles happen
(49:36):
sometimes, you know.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
What are you thankful for this year?
Speaker 2 (49:41):
Oh, my daughter.
That's hands down, but also,honestly, this is my first year
at this job and I couldn't bemore grateful.
This is everything I hoped itwould be, and more.
I couldn't be more grateful.
This is everything I hoped itwould be, and more.
And the ability to cultivate mylearning and learn and grow is
incredible.
There's so much to be gratefulthis year.
(50:01):
I couldn't we could go onforever, I could list it but I'm
also grateful that I have thatmuch to be grateful for.
It's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
How about you?
Oh, I think all the triedanswers.
I'm grateful for my family.
I'm grateful for a job thatpays the bills, I'm grateful for
good-smelling shaving soap.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
True.
Speaker 1 (50:31):
Well, I mean, there's a story behind that.
Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (50:33):
Yeah, it just reminds me of, I know, my husband.
He's always he would try tofind the right clippers for his
beard and I know he's gratefulto find the right ones.
It just reminds me of him somuch.
Speaker 1 (50:46):
Yeah, I know, I know the stupidest things are things
that are fun for me, so that'sone of the things I like smell.
Smell is one of the things thatis kind of big for me.
So anyway, well, I tell youwhat I end all of my podcasts
with be good and do good.
What's good about findingthings to be grateful for?
(51:09):
Good about finding things to begrateful for.
Speaker 2 (51:18):
I'm trying to put it into words that don't try to be
profound, just no more.
I think it is that pay itforward effect, like that's the
beauty, like it's not justsomething that affects you.
That choice to be gratefulaffects everybody else in your
life yeah.
The people you interact with.
You can have a profound effecton someone else's life in such a
(51:42):
small way just because youchose to be grateful and you'll
find peace in that choice.
When you look at something andyou're like, wow, I can be
grateful for that, there's peacethere and I can't think of any
greater good than helping othersand finding peace.
Speaker 1 (52:06):
I can help you find some destruction, so don't Well,
Candice, I appreciate youtalking to me.
Speaker 2 (52:12):
No problem, thank you for to me.
No problem.
Thank you for inviting me.
This is fun.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
I appreciate Candice's perspective on
gratitude and meditation.
Episodes like this are easy toproduce, but hard for me to
apply because, frankly, it'soften difficult for me to look
on the bright side, especiallywhen the stakes are high, at
least in my perspective.
Candice, thank you for a hardconversation that ended up
(52:40):
making me better.
I recorded this episode beforeThanksgiving but was delayed for
a few reasons.
In the episode I talk aboutsomeone we knew was about to
pass away.
Well, that was my wife'sgrandmother, kate Petty.
We have known for a while.
Kate was not going to survivemuch longer and on December 3rd
(53:00):
she did pass.
So after Thanksgiving, when myfamily and I went to visit my
family in Kentucky a couple ofweeks later, we went to Atlanta
to attend her funeral of weekslater, we went to Atlanta to
attend her funeral.
Kate was feisty, sassy andsomeone I see in my own children
.
She was quiet but not shy, butshe loved her family and her God
(53:21):
fiercely, and that's somethingI admire and respect.
I've said before, in all crisisevents, heroes are born.
I don't talk a lot about this,but I watched my father-in-law,
dan Petty, once againdemonstrate why he's someone I
admire so much, after weeks ofbeing at his mother's bedside.
Dan did the messy work ofdealing with the details of
(53:42):
death.
Some heroes wear capes, butthis one wears ties and
continues to mind the tasks thatmakes everyone else's life
easier, and continues to mindthe tasks that makes everyone
else's life easier.
Of all the men I know, dan issomeone without ego.
He is a man of virtue andcharacter, or, as I prefer to
say, he's a decent guy.
(54:02):
I hope to return to regularepisodes now that both the
holidays and the unforeseen butexpected events are behind us.
I'm grateful for you.
I hope the things we talk aboutmake you a better Christian.
So until next time, let's begood and do good.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com