June 13, 2024 • 41 mins
In this episode, Hal Hammons and I discuss some of my past few months' stresses. This is a very personal episode for me. I'm grateful for Hal and I'm grateful for you.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
In this episode of Balancing the Christian Life, we
talk to Dr Kenny Embry abouthow we can help him manage his
stress.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to Balancing the Christian Life.
I'm Dr Kenny Embry.
Join me as we discover how tobe better Christians and people
in the digital age.
I never really thought I'd be acoffee guy.
I started drinking coffee whenI was in college.
It was not anything that Ithought was all that important.
As a matter of fact, whateverwas cheapest was the best.
(00:32):
What changed for me was a guynamed Mark Roberts.
He's somebody who takes hiscoffee very seriously.
For a while he was just thatguy with the weird coffee
obsession, but then one day Itried a light roast Ethiopian
blend.
That changed everything.
It tasted different and therejust wasn't any way for me to go
(00:55):
back to.
The cheapest is the best.
I don't always indulge mycoffee habit, but it did make me
appreciate something that I'dnever really thought about
before.
Some of you may know that thishas been a fairly stressful part
of my life.
I don't think what I'm goingthrough is all that unusual.
Quite frankly, a lot of peoplehave navigated these waters much
(01:16):
better than I have, and I'mgrateful for that.
Hal Hammons is one of thepeople who has been looking in
on occasion and helped me quitea bit One of the things that we
had an idea for this episode todo was have him interview me
about what kind of things I wasgoing through.
What we ended up talking aboutwas really a board game, and if
you know how, you knew it had toget back to a board game at
(01:40):
some point.
The board game is ForbiddenDesert, and you'll see how that
takes on a central role in thisepisode.
I've always thought of myaudience as my 17-year-old son,
jake, but this episode is reallytwo middle-aged guys talking
about the struggles that we haveletting God have control.
(02:03):
Not only is Hal a good friend,he's also the host of Citizen of
Heaven, another faith-basedpodcast that I highly recommend.
So I'm just going to sit herewith my coffee and I'm going to
let Hal pick up from here.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
My name is Hal Hammons.
I host the Citizen of Heavenpodcast.
Today I'm stepping in to helpmy friend, dr Kenny Embry,
because, quite frankly, he's ina bit of a bad place and he's my
friend and I care, and so Ithought maybe I'd step in, help
him lighten his own littleburden a little bit.
So, kenny, how are you doing?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
I'm doing pretty good , hal.
I'm not trying to blow yourline there, but there are parts
of my life that are stressfuland there are parts of my life
that are going really well.
I appreciate you stepping in.
I've told you this and I'll saythis, I guess, for the podcast
as well.
I've just enjoyed talking topeople that I enjoy talking to
recently.
That doesn't mean I don't likemeeting new people I always love
(03:07):
meeting new people but there'ssome people that I just have a
familiarity with that I reallyjust enjoy talking to, and
you're one of those, so I'mreally thrilled that you're here
.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
And not to just over make the point about the digital
discipleship thing that myfriend Kenny is always talking
about.
But Kenny and I have never metin the flesh.
We have never been in the samecounty as far as I know.
Maybe we have, but certainlynever shaken hands or anything
like that.
And the ability that we have inthis world these days to form
(03:39):
these kind of friendships, evenwith their limitations, it can't
replace face-to-face, but it'sgood and it wasn't available to
us 20 years ago and it's a realblessing to be in this world
that we're living in, With allof its problems, with all of its
challenges that we face.
It comes with some tremendousblessings and you're one of
those blessings, King.
(04:00):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
And you're singing my song right now, hal, so I'll
listen to another verse.
Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
We said we would talk about stress management a
little bit.
So talk to me about stress,talk to me about your life.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Well, I can talk very generally about stress, but
there are a lot of things thathave happened in my life.
If anybody's paying attentionto what's going on in higher
education, the entire highereducation scene has changed
significantly.
There are fewer people going tocollege, and that's not
affecting just me, it'saffecting all of my colleagues.
(04:36):
My department, which at onetime was a department of four,
has turned into a department ofone, and that one is me.
What that means is I have toadapt and change.
It means that I'm teachingthings that I've never taught
before, and one of the things asa professor you get used to
teaching the same things overand over again and if you're
(04:57):
lucky, you get to teach severalsections of the same thing.
But this semester I'm teachingtwo things that I have no idea
what I'm doing and I'm about aweek ahead of my students, and
that's difficult.
I'm trying to make sure thatthey have some skills, but at
the same time the curriculumbecause we have lower staff the
(05:20):
curriculum needs to change andyou'll never guess who has to
change that curriculum.
It's the same guy who'steaching, so it's a lot of
stresses that are happening atthat level.
It's difficult because a lot ofmy discretionary time has
turned into time that is notspoken for that's the struggle
we all face.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
It's frustrating when people talk about how they just
don't have enough time to dothis, that or the other.
We all have 168 hours in theweek.
That's it.
There's not going to be anyextra time.
You have to find a way tomanage what you have.
That's a series of negotiationsand compromises.
There's always going to besomething pressing at you trying
(06:00):
to fill that void, trying totake that last 30 minutes of
your day, of your week, andsometimes it's a worthy thing.
Sometimes it's not a worthything.
When there are not a lot ofpressing issues pounding on you
in the moment, you can be freeto make minor mistakes and make
relatively poor judgment callswith regard to this kind of
(06:23):
thing.
You spend an extra half an hourwatching TV, or spend an extra
half an hour sleeping orwhatever it happens to be.
That's not necessarily the endof the world when you're in a
situation like yours, where youhave urgencies at every corner,
now time is a premium and nowyou have to think very carefully
about where that 30 minutes isgoing to go.
(06:44):
You can look at that as being apositive thing if you want to.
You can look at that as beingan exercise, because, in reality
, nobody's time is any more orany less valuable than anybody
else's time.
You're just realizing howvaluable it is right now, and so
perhaps we can disciplineourselves to value time, to
(07:07):
utilize time, because it's agift, it's the greatest gift
that God has ever given to us,and by putting it to work in the
most, not just a profitablearea, but the most profitable
area, or trying to do that's anexcellent exercise in restraint,
in self-discipline, in priority, in all these things that
should be governing our lives atall times, in all situations.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
When you can't do everything, you have to start
figuring out what the mostimportant things are, your
priorities, what's the mostimportant thing that you've got
on your agenda right now?
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Have you talked to our mutual friend, Chris Em,
about the word priorities?
I have.
I appreciate the way heemphasizes the singularity of
priority.
There's not priorities.
Plural Priority is what comesfirst.
You can't have two or threethings that come first.
And when we convince ourselvesin this situation, X is the
priority and then in the nextsituation, Y is the priority,
(08:05):
what we've done is devalued.
All of these things and we'veconvinced ourselves that in the
moment I can do whatever I wantto do.
And in reality, that's not true,or at least it shouldn't be.
If I can manage to draw mecloser to God and I take that
attitude toward my relationships, toward my work, toward my
children, it helps keep thingsin focus and keep me from
(08:27):
getting distracted with lesserthings that may seem valuable in
the moment but really don'tfactor into the big picture At
least they shouldn't befactoring in to the big picture.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Some of the things that I took for granted, so, for
example, my health.
That was another thing that Ihad some blood work done.
I had some blood work done atthe end of the year and most of
my blood markers were actuallyreally good, except my sugar was
just way out of line.
My A1C was fine.
I've been pre-diabetic for along time but my blood sugar was
way off.
(08:57):
My blood sugar was 154.
And that's pretty significantfor me.
That told me something's wrong.
I am not somebody who gets alot of exercise, so I started
walking and that's actuallyhelped me moderate my blood
sugar, fasting blood glucoselevel and, for those of you who
(09:19):
are keeping score, you want yourblood sugar below 100.
So mine was creeping up there.
It got up there very fast.
Usually my blood sugar is like105.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
You haven't talked about dietary habits, but I know
me in these kind of situationsand one of the easiest coping
mechanisms we have inmiddle-income America is food,
and especially food that's notparticularly good for us.
I don't know if this is part ofthe whole garden of Eden curse
(09:52):
or not, but it seems like thethings that are worst for us are
the things that have thegreatest appeal.
If there is chocolate in thehouse and I'm feeling stressed,
one of the natural things for usto go to is that substance.
In fact, we have a phrase inAmerica called comfort food.
(10:15):
Comfort food is a categorythat's very difficult to define,
other than it's not veryhealthy.
It gives me that warm feelinginside that makes me feel so
good in the moment.
It's just not good for you.
Feeling good in the moment isfine and I'm not opposed to a
little comfort food or a littlechocolate from time to time.
But when that becomes ourprimary coping mechanism and it
(10:39):
starts pushing away things thatmove the ball forward, it
becomes a serious problem.
Our issues wind up gettingworse, and sometimes not
necessarily in the long term,sometimes it's in the short term
, especially if you have amedical condition like you're
talking about.
We put ourselves in a positionwhere we are deliberately,
almost intentionally, draggingourselves down and making our
(11:04):
situation far worse than it hasto be, simply because I want
comfort in the next 10 secondsrather than comfort in the next
10 hours or 10 weeks or 10 years.
So we have to make intentionaland thoughtful decisions in
these areas.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
I have been low carb for a long time, and one of the
things that low carb is supposedto help you with is a budger, I
think, for me.
I've learned that I have toinclude exercise for a long time
, and one of the things that lowcarb is supposed to help you
with is a budger, I think, forme.
I've learned that I have toinclude exercise, and I guess
the argument that I would saywith that is it's not like I
didn't know the answer.
I didn't want to prioritize theanswer.
There are 12 things that reallywant my attention right now,
(11:42):
but the thing that's going tomake sure that I can do whatever
else I need to do make sure youtake care of yourself, make
sure you're taking care of whatGod has given you, and I think
that's a lesson I've learned waytoo many times for me to forget
it over and over again.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Those who know my podcast know that I have this
tendency to relate everything toboard games.
I know that I have thistendency to relate everything to
board games.
There is a game calledForbidden Desert.
The key in Forbidden Desert isto survive.
You are stranded in the middleof this oasis, in the middle of
the desert, and your job is tofind airplane parts and put the
(12:26):
airplane parts together so thatyou can get off the island and
go home before you die.
If the desert consumes theoasis, you're going to die.
This is a battle the oasis isgoing to lose.
It's just the way that it is.
The desert will make more andmore encroachments into this
area and eventually the desertwill win.
If you manage to get off theisland, you win, and if you
(12:47):
don't manage, then you lose.
That's how I see my life.
As a Christian stranded onEarth, I am trying to escape,
and there are factors mitigatingagainst me.
I have very limited controlover, and what I need to do is
take control of myself and dothe work that I need to do.
While time remains, I thoughtof three lessons from Forbidden
(13:10):
Desert that I'll share with youhere, and if one of your
listeners takes some lessonsfrom this, and so much the
better.
What you need to do first of allis to venture into threatened
and dangerous territories asseldom as possible and get out
of them as quickly as possible.
There are areas of the worldthat we just deal with on the
(13:31):
job, at school, whatever, thatyou just can't get out of.
This is the world.
Things that are important toyou, things that are important
to your life, are in these areas.
You have to go into those areas.
Important to you.
Things are important to yourlife are in these areas.
You have to go into those areas, but you can limit your contact
and escape those areas asquickly as you can.
There are zones where you canlive and let it define your life
(13:55):
, and it will erode at yourpsyche.
It'll erode at your values.
It'll erode at everything thatyou say you value, and
eventually the desert willconsume you.
In those areas, you will lose.
You want to get out of that yousay you value and eventually
the desert will consume you.
In those areas, you will lose.
You want to get out of that asquickly as possible.
The second thing you need to dois make the most of your time.
There is a job you need to do.
We're not saying that you don'tever stop to take a breath, but
(14:18):
don't get off task.
Remember what you're doing here.
Remember what the objective is.
There's always going to bedistractions.
The third thing you need to dois you need to shore up your
areas of safety as much as youcan.
There are measures that you cantake where the areas that you
really need to keep safe can bekept safe.
There are parts of your lifethat should be sacred territory
(14:44):
for you.
One tile is for your wife oryour husband.
One tile is for your children.
One tile is for your faith.
One tile is for your health.
There are certain areas thatabsolutely need to be shored up.
I cannot afford to lose this inthe context of the bigger
(15:05):
picture.
Now, we're not saying thatthese kinds of things, as
important as they, are the bigpicture.
They're not.
Heaven is the big picture, butI can get to heaven a whole lot
easier if my wife is on my side,if I'm not burdened down with
unnecessary problems with healthand all that kind of thing.
If I can keep that safe, thenit frees me up to focus on
(15:27):
important things, if I candevote myself to making sure
that the really important thingsare.
Okay.
That's going to alleviate a lotof stress in my life and free
up my attention for the thingsthat I keep saying are the
important things.
That's not distracting from themission, that's facilitating
(15:47):
the mission, that is empoweringthe mission.
So, by making sure that qualitytime is spent in these quality
areas, I don't get distracted, Idon't get overwhelmed.
It's a big desert out there.
There is a lot of trouble outthere, and the more time I spend
(16:09):
looking at it, the morehopeless I'm going to feel.
I don't watch the news muchanymore and this is a large
reason why, because it's nothingbut bad.
And I don't think that'sbecause I'm getting a narrow
view of it, although perhaps Iam.
I don't think that's it.
I think it's view of it,although perhaps I am.
I don't think that's it.
I think it's just that theworld's a really nasty place out
there and I'm not saying youdon't deal with that, it's real.
(16:32):
It's encouraging me to want toget out of here as quickly as I
can, but that'll come in time IfI can take care of myself and
take care of the people who areclose to me and get ready for
the time that I'm going to becalled out of here.
That's going to make the timein this space considerably more
(16:52):
bearable and even pleasant,enjoyable and fulfilling.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
You're not wrong.
There are a lot of obviousanswers to what I need to do.
I'm going to lead the spiritualout of this just for a second.
So, for example, I could try togo find another job, but one of
the things that I really loveabout what I do is I love what I
do.
Being a faculty member has beenone of the greatest gifts of my
(17:22):
life, and maybe that gift iscoming to an end.
I don't know, and I would haveto redefine myself.
But I could do that.
And right now, what I'mstruggling with are.
I feel like I'm doing somethingimportant here, because right
now I find purpose in helpingstudents figure out that time
(17:43):
between 18 and 22.
And that, to me, is a worthyvocation, because I remember
what I was like at 18 to 22 andI sure didn't know much and not
hiring you because they'relooking for your skill set.
If problems of an organizationcould be solved by a 22-year-old
student, they would have fixedthose problems a long time ago.
(18:10):
You guys are basically cheaplabor and that's good for you
and it's good for them, becauseyou're able to learn what needs
to be learned.
I guess one of the things I'mtrying to learn myself is.
I could start over at 55 andhave to do exactly the same
thing, and yet I find purpose inwhat I'm doing.
Now I feel like I'm stillmaking a difference in what I'm
(18:32):
doing is important and maybeit's not.
Maybe I don't have a goodanswer for that, maybe I just
cannot see what I cannot see.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
I was just thinking of the movie City Slickers with
Billy Crystal back in the day.
And he's 38 years old, 39 yearsold, he's dissatisfied, he hates
his job and he thinks thatgoing off and herding cattle for
a couple of weeks is going tochange his life.
He comes home after thislife-changing experience and his
wife tries to comfort him andsays if you want to quit your
(19:01):
job, we'll figure it out, don'tworry about it.
And he says no, I'm not goingto quit my job, I'm just going
to do it better.
And I said yeah, there you go.
That's the answer.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Sometimes quitting the job is the answer.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
But so many times we want to implement some kind of
long-term solution to ashort-term problem.
I'm unhappy right now, so I'mgoing to peeve my entire life my
to a short-term problem.
I'm unhappy right now, so I'mgoing to peeve my entire life.
My husband doesn't appreciateme, so I'm going to leave him.
I'm going to start dating in my40s.
Good luck with that.
Yeah, that just sounds fun.
Why would you throw away thepart of the oasis that you're
(19:35):
confident in, the part of theoasis that works, that's stable,
that you're happy in Becausethat works, that's stable, that
you're happy in because you'redissatisfied with the way the
world is?
You anchor down in your oasis.
You build something here, youfortify it.
My wife, my children, my jobthis is what anchors me.
(19:57):
Why would I let thatdeteriorate?
Why would I sabotage that?
I'm not sure who I am, so I'mgoing to go have an affair with
my secretary or my neighbor orwhatever.
No, don't do that.
That's short-term thinking,that's destructive thinking.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
And you talk about anchoring to an oasis, and
ultimately, this is theChristian application.
The entire part of Abrahamfollowing God was.
Abraham was comfortable,abraham did have a life, he had
lived an entire lifetime, andGod calls him to a different
adventure.
Right, and what didn't change,apparently, was that
relationship with God, buteverything else did.
I realize he was still marriedto Sarah, but everything else
(20:40):
changed.
You could say the same with JobEverything changed.
You could say the same with JobEverything changed.
And in that situation, he evenallows, in my opinion, the wife
to change as well, that the wifebecomes a hindrance, which I
think was part of his temptation.
And, by the way, who can blameher?
She just watched all herchildren die.
She just watched her husbandbasically lose every piece of
(21:02):
health that he had, and she justwatched their fortunes go from
good to horrible.
I do not fault Job's wife atall.
She's part of his temptation, Ithink, though.
So I think one of the things isyou got to figure out,
especially at times like this,maybe my vocation is not nearly
(21:23):
as important as other thingsthat are going on in my life.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
And that is a difficult call to make,
obviously because we are used tothinking of the job being at
the core of our existence,because it's where we are 40
hours, 50 hours, 60 hours a week, whatever it seems like that is
defining our life, and in termsof time management, perhaps it
is to a certain degree, but interms of true priority, in terms
(21:49):
of true identity, I hope thatnone of us ever thinks of
themselves first and foremost asa banker or educator, a nurse,
a captain of industry, whateverit happens to be.
If that's how you defineyourself, there's a very good
chance that you're going tosucceed very well in that area,
but that is going to be leavingout an awful lot of other things
(22:13):
that I consider to be moreimportant.
That's not how that has to go,and that is a really tough
(22:34):
decision to make.
Obviously, that's why we haveprayer, that's why we have
confidants and brothers andsisters in Christ, people that
we trust, people who can look usin the eye and say, hey, it's
time to make a call, it's timefor you to pull the trigger on
this.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
And that goes to another belief that I have about
God.
I do not understand how Godacts.
I just don't, and I would notwant to speak on behalf of God
and how he chooses to act.
I don't know if he's telling methat education is closing for
me or not, or if he's telling meto soldier on and this is going
to resolve itself.
I don't have answers for that,but I think if I decided to quit
(23:12):
education, god would be with me.
And if I feel like I'm going tosoldier on in this, I think God
will be with me.
I don't feel like there's afate that is waiting for me, so
much as there's a God that isstanding beside me.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
I totally agree.
I think that the opposite ofthat is a very dangerous way of
thinking.
We can wind up empoweringourselves in a self-destructive
opinion.
If nothing else, what we'redoing is we're getting into the
mind of God and telling him howto do his business, which I
think is a very poor policy.
I don't know how God wants me togo whether a left or right in
(23:51):
any given day to day kind ofdecision Quit this job, start
this job, date this girl I don'tknow for sure.
What I do know and I thinkyou're saying essentially the
same kind of thing what I doknow is, wherever I go, whatever
decision I make, I'm making itin the context of being a child
of God and I'm going to find away to glorify God where I am
(24:14):
and where I am going to betomorrow.
And if I think that I can do abetter job at that in this
vocation rather than thisvocation, then pray about it and
make the change, go ahead anddo that and however that turns
out, success, disaster inbetween I find a way to glorify
God.
(24:34):
The burden is taken off of meto make the quote-unquote right
decision.
To make the quote-unquote rightdecision.
It's not so much a matter ofI'm either saving or ruining the
next 50 years of my life withthis decision right now, boy
that's some stress right there,my entire life depends on the
left or right decision right now, man, your brain's going to
(24:55):
explode over something like that.
We're not equipped to handlethat kind of thing.
I don't think that God wants usto try to handle that kind of
thing.
We trust that things are.
His Proverbs talks about howthe lot is cast, but the
decision is the Lord's In.
Acts chapter 1, when thedisciples don't know which
apostle to choose to take Judas'place, they cast lots,
(25:17):
something akin to throwing dice.
I don't know exactly how lotsworked back then I'm not sure
anybody does but the point is isthis is a decision that's
beyond us and we're going totrust God to do it.
I'm not suggesting that you cutthe cards to find out whether
you take the job or don't takethe job.
We're not suggesting that thatchoice becomes God's choice and
(25:37):
now we know it's the rightchoice.
I don't think that's the pointin Acts 1.
I don't think that's the pointin Proverbs and it's not the
point for us now.
But what it does do is remindus that God is guiding us, god
is sheltering us, shepherding usthroughout these
decision-making processes, andmaybe his objective is to put us
in a prosperous and comfortableand blessed place so that we'll
(26:00):
be able to share what we havewith other people.
And maybe his mission is tobring us down a notch and to
humble us and to rob us ofthings that we think we need but
actually we don't, to keep usfocused on his things.
Either way, whether it turnsout to be a quote unquote good
decision or a bad decision.
Either way, we have theopportunity to lean on God and
(26:22):
to trust in him for these things.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Yeah, one of the things that I would say about
Abraham or Job, or the mostimportant thing they learned,
was, quite frankly, not aboutGod, it was about themselves.
Job learned that he really didtrust God when push comes to
shove.
He was not going to be shovedout of his devotion to God, by
(26:45):
the way, same for Abraham, andwhen you think about the
offering of Isaac, he didn'tknow how that was going to work
out.
He just knew that he trustedGod and whatever God had up his
sleeve, he was just going tohave to trust sleeve.
He was just going to have totrust.
I had a recent conversationwith Stoneheart not too long ago
(27:05):
, and he was talking about Kelly, his wife, being diagnosed with
breast cancer, and one of thethings that he told me that he
learned was that this faith inGod really was there, that when
he had no control over what wasgoing to go on with Kelly, he
really did trust God.
He really did trust God, Iguess one of the things that I
(27:27):
would say in my situation.
There are a lot of things thatI've had to let drop, not that I
think that I'm going to dropthem forever.
So, for example, if you've beenlooking for me on Facebook, you
haven't seen me on FacebookBecause I've got other things to
do, and that, to me, is fine.
(27:48):
Do I as well as I do?
I am somebody who reallybelieves in digital stuff.
I do think it has an importantrole to play.
I don't think it's the mostimportant role, but I do think
it plays an important role, andso would I be on there if I
could be?
Yeah, I would be, but I can'tbe right now.
(28:09):
So who am I going to trust?
Am I going to trust myself andmy judgment, or am I going to
trust God?
And I guess part of that is doI really trust him or not?
And I think that's one of thethings that I'm hopefully
learning about myself right nowthat maybe religion, maybe
Christianity, is not just talkfor me.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
I love the Abraham and Isaac story.
I mean, who doesn't?
Well, I'll tell you who doesn't?
Control freaks don't.
Control freaks hate that story,and I can understand why
because we don't like the ideaof God controlling the future.
We want to control the future.
That's that, and I am all forexercising whatever control you
can.
I think it's irresponsible tonot do that.
(28:52):
But ultimately, isaac is thefuture, and, by this point, more
than that, because Isaac is oldenough to walk next to the
donkey anyway, and God takesthis child.
Everything depends on him.
Abraham thought he had anadequate substitute and God said
(29:12):
no, that's not it.
This child right here, he's thefuture Now.
I want you to give him to me, Iwant you to hand him over to me
, and Abraham is willing to dothat.
The Bible doesn't talk about himfussing or talking back or
whatever.
I don't know exactly how theconversation went, but I do know
that it took him less than oneday to get on the road.
(29:33):
I'm going to give God my future.
Hebrews chapter 11 tells usthat Abraham had faith that God
could raise Isaac from the dead.
That's what he thought wasgoing to happen, which is
remarkable considering that wehave a Bible that contains a
handful of examples of peoplebeing raised from the dead.
Abraham did not have that.
Abraham had never heard ofsomeone being raised from the
(29:54):
dead before, not a single time,and yet he comes up with this on
his own.
This must be what and, asalways, abraham's wrong about
how exactly?
God's going to carry this outbut he's right in the sense that
God is a worthy custodian of myfuture.
I can put my future in God'shands and I'm going to be okay.
(30:14):
God will still accomplish thethings in me that he said he's
going to accomplish.
I don't understand how, I don'tunderstand why, I don't
understand when, but it's goingto happen somehow.
That's why Abraham isconsidered to be the father of
the faithful.
He struggled, he failedsometimes in his faith, but
ultimately he was able to ridethe ship and come back to his
(30:35):
base, come back to who he reallywas at his core.
That's who we need to be.
I am a child of God.
I am beyond this.
God has promised that he willempower me to succeed.
I don't know how much comfort,how much consolation I'm going
to have in the short term, butultimately that is irrelevant.
(30:55):
It may not seem irrelevant inthe moment, but ultimately, in
the big picture, it's irrelevant.
This is about surviving thislife, moving on to the next life
.
The more I can build my faithin that, the more I'm going to
be equipped to deal with thesesituations that are trying to
distract me.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
The faith of Abraham is not in grand gestures for the
most part.
Yes, sacrificing your child,that is a fairly grand gesture,
but the fact of the matter ismost of the decisions that
Abraham made were not all thatbig, they were cumulative.
Abraham made were not all thatbig, they were cumulative.
The other thing about Abrahamis the promises that God made to
(31:33):
Abraham he largely did not see,With the exception of a place
to bury his wife.
He didn't own anything in thepromised land.
He basically ended up with twoboys and that was his seed
promise.
The nations of the earth wouldbe blessed.
(31:54):
The nations barely knew who hewas.
The promises of God outlivedAbraham and Abraham somehow knew
that's exactly the way thatwould work Trusting God to a
level that everybody else wouldsay what are you on?
How crazy are you?
You realize this has neverworked out for you.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Well, paul mentions the piece that passes
understanding in Philippians 4.
It does pass understanding.
It passes our understanding toa certain degree and it
certainly passes other people'sunderstanding.
They look at this hunkered downsmile on your face kind of
mentality in the face ofdifficulty, hardship, stress,
and think what's he smoking?
(32:32):
Because if I were looking likethat, if I had that kind of
expression, I'd be smokingsomething.
That's the only way I could getthere.
I want some of what he's got.
I'll tell you what I got Jesus.
In fact, in Ephesians, chapterfive, I find it interesting that
Paul compares song worship andworship in general to getting
drunk.
In verse 18, he says this isdissipation, just getting drunk.
(32:57):
I want to get into this statewhere I feel good about myself,
where I feel good about myfuture.
I want to feel like my life hasmeaning, like I'm important,
like I have friends, et cetera.
And I'm going to do that bygoing down to the bar and
getting absolutely hammered.
A lot of people do that andtheir life falls apart as a
result of that.
Here's an alternative you go tothe church house, you sing
(33:17):
praises to God, you sing songsof instruction to one another.
That's a high that will giveyou satisfaction in the short
term and in the long term itwill draw you closer to your
true objective term.
And in the long term it willdraw you closer to your true
objective.
It does not blow your lifeapart.
It gives your life substanceand meaning and focus.
In these places, this is whoyou truly are and you live a
(33:41):
life of purpose and confidenceand faith.
Because the desert's consumingall of us, people who don't know
God.
They're in the same mess thatwe're in.
They see the same problems thatwe're seeing.
Their life is just as miserableand helpless and futureless, et
cetera, as ours is.
But when we have hope, when wehave purpose, the world's not
(34:03):
getting to us should besomething immensely attractive
about that to us should besomething immensely attractive
about that.
I want some of that.
I've been trying plan A for along time now and it's not
working at all for me.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Maybe I should try plan B.
We started off by talking aboutthe answers that I don't have,
and we're going to end off byhaving none of those answers
still.
Whether I should stay ineducation is still a question
mark for me.
Yeah, all of these struggleshave shown me are the people who
care for me, and that's beenuseful.
I've seen the people who arereaching out.
(34:53):
You're one of them.
That makes a difference to me.
It's useful to know who yourallies are and who you can count
on and who you can trust, andthings like that.
I'm getting to the point thatthere are parts of my life that
I just might have to lose thatmaybe I can be okay with,
because God has got that part ofmy life figured out.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
because I don't, let me say this Kenny, okay,
traditionally, at the end ofyour podcast, at the end of
every one of your podcasts, yousay be good and do good.
I do so.
Is there anything good aboutstress?
Speaker 2 (35:28):
There are a lot of good things about stress.
If I didn't have stress, Iwouldn't get anything done.
Pressure is productive.
If I didn't have stress tograde papers, I would never
grade papers, because it's aterrible job.
Deadlines are helpful for me.
Stresses are usually revelatory.
In other words, they willexplain to you where your
(35:50):
weaknesses are.
They will also show you where,maybe, those weaknesses are.
Fine.
Maybe it's okay that you can'tstretch yourself really thin on
these 12 things and maybe someof those 12 things just need to
go.
Stop stressing yourself outabout those.
But this stress over here withyour wife, this stress over here
(36:15):
with your health, this stressover no, that needs to be taken
care of.
Those are the things thatactually make some difference
and maybe you can't let those go.
If I ended up in a differentprofession, I guess I'd still be
okay with that, because I'vegot my God, I've got my wife,
I've got my family, and whatstresses me out there are the
(36:38):
stresses that actually make adifference.
They make me stronger.
There are stressors that justtear you down and maybe you need
to let go of those.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Sometimes failure is the lesson that you need to
learn Sometimes.
I was just thinking about anepisode I did a couple of years
ago about bridges and howastonished I was at the process
of bridge building as it existedbefore steel.
Anyway, used to be that youwould find out how much stress a
(37:11):
bridge could take by justbuilding with less and less
rocks and ultimately, when youstart building with steel, less
and less steel and one of thesedays the bridge fails and you
say I guess I need more thanthat.
This is the world beforeengineering really took off.
What a ridiculous way to liveyour life, but that's the way
you do.
That's the way that it works.
(37:33):
That's all you have.
You have to have a bridge thereand you can't go on just
assuming you need a hundredthousand pounds of stone to
build a bridge.
We're adventurous, we have topush things, we have to find out
what works and what doesn'twork and eventually we find out
that this bridge that we'rebuilding for ourself is just
inadequate.
(37:53):
I don't have enough time, Idon't have enough energy, I
don't have enough resources tokeep feeding this monster and
keeping it going.
I'm going to have to let itfall.
I'm just going to have to letit collapse, and that's not the
end of the world.
What is the end of the world isif the one bridge that I
absolutely have to have if thatfails, that's a disaster.
(38:14):
That's what I have to feed.
Everything that I have, all theresources that I have,
everything I can spare goes intothat area and fortifies it and
builds it up where I haveconfidence in that my faith, my
family, my ability to cope withreally important things in life.
Sometimes you find out that thething you absolutely could not
(38:37):
afford to lose, that's exactlywhat you have to lose.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
The people who end up mattering to me are the ones
who are reaching out, and thathas been a blessing to me.
I've gotten to the point veryrecently where I talk about
people being blessings, and mydefinition of blessing is people
who point me back to God.
You're one of them whobasically point me back to is
(39:05):
this what you're doing?
Is this helping you?
And the other ones that how canI help you get something else
done?
That, to me, has been a huge so, for example, I have every
intention to do the conferenceagain, and the first guy who
said can I help?
Speaker 1 (39:43):
you with this was you Al, so that means something to
be.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
I appreciate it, hal.
I appreciate what you're doing,not just for me, for other
people as well.
You're a good guy.
You are proving your worth overand over again.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
So I appreciate that.
I appreciate you very much,that's me to say, and your work
here is a blessing to us all.
Whatever we can do from aselfish perspective to keep your
spirits up a little bit, toalleviate your stress a little
bit, keep you on task, keep youserving us.
That's what we want to do.
You're a blessing.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
In some ways this felt like a very personal
therapy session, but in anotherway I thought that this is very
common for a lot of people to gothrough.
Another way, I thought thatthis is very common for a lot of
people to go through as we getolder, our health starts to
deteriorate, our choices becomeless obvious and it becomes both
easier and more difficult totrust that God has the future.
Just so you know, this episodewas basically recorded about two
(40:44):
or three months ago.
Kyle and I have been talkingvery recently about the
conference and I'll have more tosay about that in the next few
days.
I want to say again thanks toHal for doing this episode.
I want to thank you for yourpatience and I ask you again for
your prayers.
(41:05):
Next episode I plan to talk toMark Dunnigan.
Mark is somebody who I've knownfor a little while.
Me and his wife, cindy, havelived in an RV but also been
local to me.
For the last little bit we talkabout advice he wishes he could
give himself when he wasyounger.
So until next time, let's begood and do good.
In this episode of Balancing the Christian Life, we
talk to Dr Kenny Embry abouthow we can help him manage his
stress.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to Balancing the Christian Life.
I'm Dr Kenny Embry.
Join me as we discover how tobe better Christians and people
in the digital age.
I never really thought I'd be acoffee guy.
I started drinking coffee whenI was in college.
It was not anything that Ithought was all that important.
As a matter of fact, whateverwas cheapest was the best.
(00:32):
What changed for me was a guynamed Mark Roberts.
He's somebody who takes hiscoffee very seriously.
For a while he was just thatguy with the weird coffee
obsession, but then one day Itried a light roast Ethiopian
blend.
That changed everything.
It tasted different and therejust wasn't any way for me to go
(00:55):
back to.
The cheapest is the best.
I don't always indulge mycoffee habit, but it did make me
appreciate something that I'dnever really thought about
before.
Some of you may know that thishas been a fairly stressful part
of my life.
I don't think what I'm goingthrough is all that unusual.
Quite frankly, a lot of peoplehave navigated these waters much
(01:16):
better than I have, and I'mgrateful for that.
Hal Hammons is one of thepeople who has been looking in
on occasion and helped me quitea bit One of the things that we
had an idea for this episode todo was have him interview me
about what kind of things I wasgoing through.
What we ended up talking aboutwas really a board game, and if
you know how, you knew it had toget back to a board game at
(01:40):
some point.
The board game is ForbiddenDesert, and you'll see how that
takes on a central role in thisepisode.
I've always thought of myaudience as my 17-year-old son,
jake, but this episode is reallytwo middle-aged guys talking
about the struggles that we haveletting God have control.
(02:03):
Not only is Hal a good friend,he's also the host of Citizen of
Heaven, another faith-basedpodcast that I highly recommend.
So I'm just going to sit herewith my coffee and I'm going to
let Hal pick up from here.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
My name is Hal Hammons.
I host the Citizen of Heavenpodcast.
Today I'm stepping in to helpmy friend, dr Kenny Embry,
because, quite frankly, he's ina bit of a bad place and he's my
friend and I care, and so Ithought maybe I'd step in, help
him lighten his own littleburden a little bit.
So, kenny, how are you doing?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
I'm doing pretty good , hal.
I'm not trying to blow yourline there, but there are parts
of my life that are stressfuland there are parts of my life
that are going really well.
I appreciate you stepping in.
I've told you this and I'll saythis, I guess, for the podcast
as well.
I've just enjoyed talking topeople that I enjoy talking to
recently.
That doesn't mean I don't likemeeting new people I always love
(03:07):
meeting new people but there'ssome people that I just have a
familiarity with that I reallyjust enjoy talking to, and
you're one of those, so I'mreally thrilled that you're here
.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
And not to just over make the point about the digital
discipleship thing that myfriend Kenny is always talking
about.
But Kenny and I have never metin the flesh.
We have never been in the samecounty as far as I know.
Maybe we have, but certainlynever shaken hands or anything
like that.
And the ability that we have inthis world these days to form
(03:39):
these kind of friendships, evenwith their limitations, it can't
replace face-to-face, but it'sgood and it wasn't available to
us 20 years ago and it's a realblessing to be in this world
that we're living in, With allof its problems, with all of its
challenges that we face.
It comes with some tremendousblessings and you're one of
those blessings, King.
(04:00):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
And you're singing my song right now, hal, so I'll
listen to another verse.
Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
We said we would talk about stress management a
little bit.
So talk to me about stress,talk to me about your life.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Well, I can talk very generally about stress, but
there are a lot of things thathave happened in my life.
If anybody's paying attentionto what's going on in higher
education, the entire highereducation scene has changed
significantly.
There are fewer people going tocollege, and that's not
affecting just me, it'saffecting all of my colleagues.
(04:36):
My department, which at onetime was a department of four,
has turned into a department ofone, and that one is me.
What that means is I have toadapt and change.
It means that I'm teachingthings that I've never taught
before, and one of the things asa professor you get used to
teaching the same things overand over again and if you're
(04:57):
lucky, you get to teach severalsections of the same thing.
But this semester I'm teachingtwo things that I have no idea
what I'm doing and I'm about aweek ahead of my students, and
that's difficult.
I'm trying to make sure thatthey have some skills, but at
the same time the curriculumbecause we have lower staff the
(05:20):
curriculum needs to change andyou'll never guess who has to
change that curriculum.
It's the same guy who'steaching, so it's a lot of
stresses that are happening atthat level.
It's difficult because a lot ofmy discretionary time has
turned into time that is notspoken for that's the struggle
we all face.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
It's frustrating when people talk about how they just
don't have enough time to dothis, that or the other.
We all have 168 hours in theweek.
That's it.
There's not going to be anyextra time.
You have to find a way tomanage what you have.
That's a series of negotiationsand compromises.
There's always going to besomething pressing at you trying
(06:00):
to fill that void, trying totake that last 30 minutes of
your day, of your week, andsometimes it's a worthy thing.
Sometimes it's not a worthything.
When there are not a lot ofpressing issues pounding on you
in the moment, you can be freeto make minor mistakes and make
relatively poor judgment callswith regard to this kind of
(06:23):
thing.
You spend an extra half an hourwatching TV, or spend an extra
half an hour sleeping orwhatever it happens to be.
That's not necessarily the endof the world when you're in a
situation like yours, where youhave urgencies at every corner,
now time is a premium and nowyou have to think very carefully
about where that 30 minutes isgoing to go.
(06:44):
You can look at that as being apositive thing if you want to.
You can look at that as beingan exercise, because, in reality
, nobody's time is any more orany less valuable than anybody
else's time.
You're just realizing howvaluable it is right now, and so
perhaps we can disciplineourselves to value time, to
(07:07):
utilize time, because it's agift, it's the greatest gift
that God has ever given to us,and by putting it to work in the
most, not just a profitablearea, but the most profitable
area, or trying to do that's anexcellent exercise in restraint,
in self-discipline, in priority, in all these things that
should be governing our lives atall times, in all situations.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
When you can't do everything, you have to start
figuring out what the mostimportant things are, your
priorities, what's the mostimportant thing that you've got
on your agenda right now?
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Have you talked to our mutual friend, Chris Em,
about the word priorities?
I have.
I appreciate the way heemphasizes the singularity of
priority.
There's not priorities.
Plural Priority is what comesfirst.
You can't have two or threethings that come first.
And when we convince ourselvesin this situation, X is the
priority and then in the nextsituation, Y is the priority,
(08:05):
what we've done is devalued.
All of these things and we'veconvinced ourselves that in the
moment I can do whatever I wantto do.
And in reality, that's not true,or at least it shouldn't be.
If I can manage to draw mecloser to God and I take that
attitude toward my relationships, toward my work, toward my
children, it helps keep thingsin focus and keep me from
(08:27):
getting distracted with lesserthings that may seem valuable in
the moment but really don'tfactor into the big picture At
least they shouldn't befactoring in to the big picture.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Some of the things that I took for granted, so, for
example, my health.
That was another thing that Ihad some blood work done.
I had some blood work done atthe end of the year and most of
my blood markers were actuallyreally good, except my sugar was
just way out of line.
My A1C was fine.
I've been pre-diabetic for along time but my blood sugar was
way off.
(08:57):
My blood sugar was 154.
And that's pretty significantfor me.
That told me something's wrong.
I am not somebody who gets alot of exercise, so I started
walking and that's actuallyhelped me moderate my blood
sugar, fasting blood glucoselevel and, for those of you who
(09:19):
are keeping score, you want yourblood sugar below 100.
So mine was creeping up there.
It got up there very fast.
Usually my blood sugar is like105.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
You haven't talked about dietary habits, but I know
me in these kind of situationsand one of the easiest coping
mechanisms we have inmiddle-income America is food,
and especially food that's notparticularly good for us.
I don't know if this is part ofthe whole garden of Eden curse
(09:52):
or not, but it seems like thethings that are worst for us are
the things that have thegreatest appeal.
If there is chocolate in thehouse and I'm feeling stressed,
one of the natural things for usto go to is that substance.
In fact, we have a phrase inAmerica called comfort food.
(10:15):
Comfort food is a categorythat's very difficult to define,
other than it's not veryhealthy.
It gives me that warm feelinginside that makes me feel so
good in the moment.
It's just not good for you.
Feeling good in the moment isfine and I'm not opposed to a
little comfort food or a littlechocolate from time to time.
But when that becomes ourprimary coping mechanism and it
(10:39):
starts pushing away things thatmove the ball forward, it
becomes a serious problem.
Our issues wind up gettingworse, and sometimes not
necessarily in the long term,sometimes it's in the short term
, especially if you have amedical condition like you're
talking about.
We put ourselves in a positionwhere we are deliberately,
almost intentionally, draggingourselves down and making our
(11:04):
situation far worse than it hasto be, simply because I want
comfort in the next 10 secondsrather than comfort in the next
10 hours or 10 weeks or 10 years.
So we have to make intentionaland thoughtful decisions in
these areas.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
I have been low carb for a long time, and one of the
things that low carb is supposedto help you with is a budger, I
think, for me.
I've learned that I have toinclude exercise for a long time
, and one of the things that lowcarb is supposed to help you
with is a budger, I think, forme.
I've learned that I have toinclude exercise, and I guess
the argument that I would saywith that is it's not like I
didn't know the answer.
I didn't want to prioritize theanswer.
There are 12 things that reallywant my attention right now,
(11:42):
but the thing that's going tomake sure that I can do whatever
else I need to do make sure youtake care of yourself, make
sure you're taking care of whatGod has given you, and I think
that's a lesson I've learned waytoo many times for me to forget
it over and over again.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Those who know my podcast know that I have this
tendency to relate everything toboard games.
I know that I have thistendency to relate everything to
board games.
There is a game calledForbidden Desert.
The key in Forbidden Desert isto survive.
You are stranded in the middleof this oasis, in the middle of
the desert, and your job is tofind airplane parts and put the
(12:26):
airplane parts together so thatyou can get off the island and
go home before you die.
If the desert consumes theoasis, you're going to die.
This is a battle the oasis isgoing to lose.
It's just the way that it is.
The desert will make more andmore encroachments into this
area and eventually the desertwill win.
If you manage to get off theisland, you win, and if you
(12:47):
don't manage, then you lose.
That's how I see my life.
As a Christian stranded onEarth, I am trying to escape,
and there are factors mitigatingagainst me.
I have very limited controlover, and what I need to do is
take control of myself and dothe work that I need to do.
While time remains, I thoughtof three lessons from Forbidden
(13:10):
Desert that I'll share with youhere, and if one of your
listeners takes some lessonsfrom this, and so much the
better.
What you need to do first of allis to venture into threatened
and dangerous territories asseldom as possible and get out
of them as quickly as possible.
There are areas of the worldthat we just deal with on the
(13:31):
job, at school, whatever, thatyou just can't get out of.
This is the world.
Things that are important toyou, things that are important
to your life, are in these areas.
You have to go into those areas.
Important to you.
Things are important to yourlife are in these areas.
You have to go into those areas, but you can limit your contact
and escape those areas asquickly as you can.
There are zones where you canlive and let it define your life
(13:55):
, and it will erode at yourpsyche.
It'll erode at your values.
It'll erode at everything thatyou say you value, and
eventually the desert willconsume you.
In those areas, you will lose.
You want to get out of that yousay you value and eventually
the desert will consume you.
In those areas, you will lose.
You want to get out of that asquickly as possible.
The second thing you need to dois make the most of your time.
There is a job you need to do.
We're not saying that you don'tever stop to take a breath, but
(14:18):
don't get off task.
Remember what you're doing here.
Remember what the objective is.
There's always going to bedistractions.
The third thing you need to dois you need to shore up your
areas of safety as much as youcan.
There are measures that you cantake where the areas that you
really need to keep safe can bekept safe.
There are parts of your lifethat should be sacred territory
(14:44):
for you.
One tile is for your wife oryour husband.
One tile is for your children.
One tile is for your faith.
One tile is for your health.
There are certain areas thatabsolutely need to be shored up.
I cannot afford to lose this inthe context of the bigger
(15:05):
picture.
Now, we're not saying thatthese kinds of things, as
important as they, are the bigpicture.
They're not.
Heaven is the big picture, butI can get to heaven a whole lot
easier if my wife is on my side,if I'm not burdened down with
unnecessary problems with healthand all that kind of thing.
If I can keep that safe, thenit frees me up to focus on
(15:27):
important things, if I candevote myself to making sure
that the really important thingsare.
Okay.
That's going to alleviate a lotof stress in my life and free
up my attention for the thingsthat I keep saying are the
important things.
That's not distracting from themission, that's facilitating
(15:47):
the mission, that is empoweringthe mission.
So, by making sure that qualitytime is spent in these quality
areas, I don't get distracted, Idon't get overwhelmed.
It's a big desert out there.
There is a lot of trouble outthere, and the more time I spend
(16:09):
looking at it, the morehopeless I'm going to feel.
I don't watch the news muchanymore and this is a large
reason why, because it's nothingbut bad.
And I don't think that'sbecause I'm getting a narrow
view of it, although perhaps Iam.
I don't think that's it.
I think it's view of it,although perhaps I am.
I don't think that's it.
I think it's just that theworld's a really nasty place out
there and I'm not saying youdon't deal with that, it's real.
(16:32):
It's encouraging me to want toget out of here as quickly as I
can, but that'll come in time IfI can take care of myself and
take care of the people who areclose to me and get ready for
the time that I'm going to becalled out of here.
That's going to make the timein this space considerably more
(16:52):
bearable and even pleasant,enjoyable and fulfilling.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
You're not wrong.
There are a lot of obviousanswers to what I need to do.
I'm going to lead the spiritualout of this just for a second.
So, for example, I could try togo find another job, but one of
the things that I really loveabout what I do is I love what I
do.
Being a faculty member has beenone of the greatest gifts of my
(17:22):
life, and maybe that gift iscoming to an end.
I don't know, and I would haveto redefine myself.
But I could do that.
And right now, what I'mstruggling with are.
I feel like I'm doing somethingimportant here, because right
now I find purpose in helpingstudents figure out that time
(17:43):
between 18 and 22.
And that, to me, is a worthyvocation, because I remember
what I was like at 18 to 22 andI sure didn't know much and not
hiring you because they'relooking for your skill set.
If problems of an organizationcould be solved by a 22-year-old
student, they would have fixedthose problems a long time ago.
(18:10):
You guys are basically cheaplabor and that's good for you
and it's good for them, becauseyou're able to learn what needs
to be learned.
I guess one of the things I'mtrying to learn myself is.
I could start over at 55 andhave to do exactly the same
thing, and yet I find purpose inwhat I'm doing.
Now I feel like I'm stillmaking a difference in what I'm
(18:32):
doing is important and maybeit's not.
Maybe I don't have a goodanswer for that, maybe I just
cannot see what I cannot see.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
I was just thinking of the movie City Slickers with
Billy Crystal back in the day.
And he's 38 years old, 39 yearsold, he's dissatisfied, he hates
his job and he thinks thatgoing off and herding cattle for
a couple of weeks is going tochange his life.
He comes home after thislife-changing experience and his
wife tries to comfort him andsays if you want to quit your
(19:01):
job, we'll figure it out, don'tworry about it.
And he says no, I'm not goingto quit my job, I'm just going
to do it better.
And I said yeah, there you go.
That's the answer.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Sometimes quitting the job is the answer.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
But so many times we want to implement some kind of
long-term solution to ashort-term problem.
I'm unhappy right now, so I'mgoing to peeve my entire life my
to a short-term problem.
I'm unhappy right now, so I'mgoing to peeve my entire life.
My husband doesn't appreciateme, so I'm going to leave him.
I'm going to start dating in my40s.
Good luck with that.
Yeah, that just sounds fun.
Why would you throw away thepart of the oasis that you're
(19:35):
confident in, the part of theoasis that works, that's stable,
that you're happy in Becausethat works, that's stable, that
you're happy in because you'redissatisfied with the way the
world is?
You anchor down in your oasis.
You build something here, youfortify it.
My wife, my children, my jobthis is what anchors me.
(19:57):
Why would I let thatdeteriorate?
Why would I sabotage that?
I'm not sure who I am, so I'mgoing to go have an affair with
my secretary or my neighbor orwhatever.
No, don't do that.
That's short-term thinking,that's destructive thinking.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
And you talk about anchoring to an oasis, and
ultimately, this is theChristian application.
The entire part of Abrahamfollowing God was.
Abraham was comfortable,abraham did have a life, he had
lived an entire lifetime, andGod calls him to a different
adventure.
Right, and what didn't change,apparently, was that
relationship with God, buteverything else did.
I realize he was still marriedto Sarah, but everything else
(20:40):
changed.
You could say the same with JobEverything changed.
You could say the same with JobEverything changed.
And in that situation, he evenallows, in my opinion, the wife
to change as well, that the wifebecomes a hindrance, which I
think was part of his temptation.
And, by the way, who can blameher?
She just watched all herchildren die.
She just watched her husbandbasically lose every piece of
(21:02):
health that he had, and she justwatched their fortunes go from
good to horrible.
I do not fault Job's wife atall.
She's part of his temptation, Ithink, though.
So I think one of the things isyou got to figure out,
especially at times like this,maybe my vocation is not nearly
(21:23):
as important as other thingsthat are going on in my life.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
And that is a difficult call to make,
obviously because we are used tothinking of the job being at
the core of our existence,because it's where we are 40
hours, 50 hours, 60 hours a week, whatever it seems like that is
defining our life, and in termsof time management, perhaps it
is to a certain degree, but interms of true priority, in terms
(21:49):
of true identity, I hope thatnone of us ever thinks of
themselves first and foremost asa banker or educator, a nurse,
a captain of industry, whateverit happens to be.
If that's how you defineyourself, there's a very good
chance that you're going tosucceed very well in that area,
but that is going to be leavingout an awful lot of other things
(22:13):
that I consider to be moreimportant.
That's not how that has to go,and that is a really tough
(22:34):
decision to make.
Obviously, that's why we haveprayer, that's why we have
confidants and brothers andsisters in Christ, people that
we trust, people who can look usin the eye and say, hey, it's
time to make a call, it's timefor you to pull the trigger on
this.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
And that goes to another belief that I have about
God.
I do not understand how Godacts.
I just don't, and I would notwant to speak on behalf of God
and how he chooses to act.
I don't know if he's telling methat education is closing for
me or not, or if he's telling meto soldier on and this is going
to resolve itself.
I don't have answers for that,but I think if I decided to quit
(23:12):
education, god would be with me.
And if I feel like I'm going tosoldier on in this, I think God
will be with me.
I don't feel like there's afate that is waiting for me, so
much as there's a God that isstanding beside me.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
I totally agree.
I think that the opposite ofthat is a very dangerous way of
thinking.
We can wind up empoweringourselves in a self-destructive
opinion.
If nothing else, what we'redoing is we're getting into the
mind of God and telling him howto do his business, which I
think is a very poor policy.
I don't know how God wants me togo whether a left or right in
(23:51):
any given day to day kind ofdecision Quit this job, start
this job, date this girl I don'tknow for sure.
What I do know and I thinkyou're saying essentially the
same kind of thing what I doknow is, wherever I go, whatever
decision I make, I'm making itin the context of being a child
of God and I'm going to find away to glorify God where I am
(24:14):
and where I am going to betomorrow.
And if I think that I can do abetter job at that in this
vocation rather than thisvocation, then pray about it and
make the change, go ahead anddo that and however that turns
out, success, disaster inbetween I find a way to glorify
God.
(24:34):
The burden is taken off of meto make the quote-unquote right
decision.
To make the quote-unquote rightdecision.
It's not so much a matter ofI'm either saving or ruining the
next 50 years of my life withthis decision right now, boy
that's some stress right there,my entire life depends on the
left or right decision right now, man, your brain's going to
(24:55):
explode over something like that.
We're not equipped to handlethat kind of thing.
I don't think that God wants usto try to handle that kind of
thing.
We trust that things are.
His Proverbs talks about howthe lot is cast, but the
decision is the Lord's In.
Acts chapter 1, when thedisciples don't know which
apostle to choose to take Judas'place, they cast lots,
(25:17):
something akin to throwing dice.
I don't know exactly how lotsworked back then I'm not sure
anybody does but the point is isthis is a decision that's
beyond us and we're going totrust God to do it.
I'm not suggesting that you cutthe cards to find out whether
you take the job or don't takethe job.
We're not suggesting that thatchoice becomes God's choice and
(25:37):
now we know it's the rightchoice.
I don't think that's the pointin Acts 1.
I don't think that's the pointin Proverbs and it's not the
point for us now.
But what it does do is remindus that God is guiding us, god
is sheltering us, shepherding usthroughout these
decision-making processes, andmaybe his objective is to put us
in a prosperous and comfortableand blessed place so that we'll
(26:00):
be able to share what we havewith other people.
And maybe his mission is tobring us down a notch and to
humble us and to rob us ofthings that we think we need but
actually we don't, to keep usfocused on his things.
Either way, whether it turnsout to be a quote unquote good
decision or a bad decision.
Either way, we have theopportunity to lean on God and
(26:22):
to trust in him for these things.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Yeah, one of the things that I would say about
Abraham or Job, or the mostimportant thing they learned,
was, quite frankly, not aboutGod, it was about themselves.
Job learned that he really didtrust God when push comes to
shove.
He was not going to be shovedout of his devotion to God, by
(26:45):
the way, same for Abraham, andwhen you think about the
offering of Isaac, he didn'tknow how that was going to work
out.
He just knew that he trustedGod and whatever God had up his
sleeve, he was just going tohave to trust sleeve.
He was just going to have totrust.
I had a recent conversationwith Stoneheart not too long ago
(27:05):
, and he was talking about Kelly, his wife, being diagnosed with
breast cancer, and one of thethings that he told me that he
learned was that this faith inGod really was there, that when
he had no control over what wasgoing to go on with Kelly, he
really did trust God.
He really did trust God, Iguess one of the things that I
(27:27):
would say in my situation.
There are a lot of things thatI've had to let drop, not that I
think that I'm going to dropthem forever.
So, for example, if you've beenlooking for me on Facebook, you
haven't seen me on FacebookBecause I've got other things to
do, and that, to me, is fine.
(27:48):
Do I as well as I do?
I am somebody who reallybelieves in digital stuff.
I do think it has an importantrole to play.
I don't think it's the mostimportant role, but I do think
it plays an important role, andso would I be on there if I
could be?
Yeah, I would be, but I can'tbe right now.
(28:09):
So who am I going to trust?
Am I going to trust myself andmy judgment, or am I going to
trust God?
And I guess part of that is doI really trust him or not?
And I think that's one of thethings that I'm hopefully
learning about myself right nowthat maybe religion, maybe
Christianity, is not just talkfor me.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
I love the Abraham and Isaac story.
I mean, who doesn't?
Well, I'll tell you who doesn't?
Control freaks don't.
Control freaks hate that story,and I can understand why
because we don't like the ideaof God controlling the future.
We want to control the future.
That's that, and I am all forexercising whatever control you
can.
I think it's irresponsible tonot do that.
(28:52):
But ultimately, isaac is thefuture, and, by this point, more
than that, because Isaac is oldenough to walk next to the
donkey anyway, and God takesthis child.
Everything depends on him.
Abraham thought he had anadequate substitute and God said
(29:12):
no, that's not it.
This child right here, he's thefuture Now.
I want you to give him to me, Iwant you to hand him over to me
, and Abraham is willing to dothat.
The Bible doesn't talk about himfussing or talking back or
whatever.
I don't know exactly how theconversation went, but I do know
that it took him less than oneday to get on the road.
(29:33):
I'm going to give God my future.
Hebrews chapter 11 tells usthat Abraham had faith that God
could raise Isaac from the dead.
That's what he thought wasgoing to happen, which is
remarkable considering that wehave a Bible that contains a
handful of examples of peoplebeing raised from the dead.
Abraham did not have that.
Abraham had never heard ofsomeone being raised from the
(29:54):
dead before, not a single time,and yet he comes up with this on
his own.
This must be what and, asalways, abraham's wrong about
how exactly?
God's going to carry this outbut he's right in the sense that
God is a worthy custodian of myfuture.
I can put my future in God'shands and I'm going to be okay.
(30:14):
God will still accomplish thethings in me that he said he's
going to accomplish.
I don't understand how, I don'tunderstand why, I don't
understand when, but it's goingto happen somehow.
That's why Abraham isconsidered to be the father of
the faithful.
He struggled, he failedsometimes in his faith, but
ultimately he was able to ridethe ship and come back to his
(30:35):
base, come back to who he reallywas at his core.
That's who we need to be.
I am a child of God.
I am beyond this.
God has promised that he willempower me to succeed.
I don't know how much comfort,how much consolation I'm going
to have in the short term, butultimately that is irrelevant.
(30:55):
It may not seem irrelevant inthe moment, but ultimately, in
the big picture, it's irrelevant.
This is about surviving thislife, moving on to the next life
.
The more I can build my faithin that, the more I'm going to
be equipped to deal with thesesituations that are trying to
distract me.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
The faith of Abraham is not in grand gestures for the
most part.
Yes, sacrificing your child,that is a fairly grand gesture,
but the fact of the matter ismost of the decisions that
Abraham made were not all thatbig, they were cumulative.
Abraham made were not all thatbig, they were cumulative.
The other thing about Abrahamis the promises that God made to
(31:33):
Abraham he largely did not see,With the exception of a place
to bury his wife.
He didn't own anything in thepromised land.
He basically ended up with twoboys and that was his seed
promise.
The nations of the earth wouldbe blessed.
(31:54):
The nations barely knew who hewas.
The promises of God outlivedAbraham and Abraham somehow knew
that's exactly the way thatwould work Trusting God to a
level that everybody else wouldsay what are you on?
How crazy are you?
You realize this has neverworked out for you.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Well, paul mentions the piece that passes
understanding in Philippians 4.
It does pass understanding.
It passes our understanding toa certain degree and it
certainly passes other people'sunderstanding.
They look at this hunkered downsmile on your face kind of
mentality in the face ofdifficulty, hardship, stress,
and think what's he smoking?
(32:32):
Because if I were looking likethat, if I had that kind of
expression, I'd be smokingsomething.
That's the only way I could getthere.
I want some of what he's got.
I'll tell you what I got Jesus.
In fact, in Ephesians, chapterfive, I find it interesting that
Paul compares song worship andworship in general to getting
drunk.
In verse 18, he says this isdissipation, just getting drunk.
(32:57):
I want to get into this statewhere I feel good about myself,
where I feel good about myfuture.
I want to feel like my life hasmeaning, like I'm important,
like I have friends, et cetera.
And I'm going to do that bygoing down to the bar and
getting absolutely hammered.
A lot of people do that andtheir life falls apart as a
result of that.
Here's an alternative you go tothe church house, you sing
(33:17):
praises to God, you sing songsof instruction to one another.
That's a high that will giveyou satisfaction in the short
term and in the long term itwill draw you closer to your
true objective term.
And in the long term it willdraw you closer to your true
objective.
It does not blow your lifeapart.
It gives your life substanceand meaning and focus.
In these places, this is whoyou truly are and you live a
(33:41):
life of purpose and confidenceand faith.
Because the desert's consumingall of us, people who don't know
God.
They're in the same mess thatwe're in.
They see the same problems thatwe're seeing.
Their life is just as miserableand helpless and futureless, et
cetera, as ours is.
But when we have hope, when wehave purpose, the world's not
(34:03):
getting to us should besomething immensely attractive
about that to us should besomething immensely attractive
about that.
I want some of that.
I've been trying plan A for along time now and it's not
working at all for me.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Maybe I should try plan B.
We started off by talking aboutthe answers that I don't have,
and we're going to end off byhaving none of those answers
still.
Whether I should stay ineducation is still a question
mark for me.
Yeah, all of these struggleshave shown me are the people who
care for me, and that's beenuseful.
I've seen the people who arereaching out.
(34:53):
You're one of them.
That makes a difference to me.
It's useful to know who yourallies are and who you can count
on and who you can trust, andthings like that.
I'm getting to the point thatthere are parts of my life that
I just might have to lose thatmaybe I can be okay with,
because God has got that part ofmy life figured out.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
because I don't, let me say this Kenny, okay,
traditionally, at the end ofyour podcast, at the end of
every one of your podcasts, yousay be good and do good.
I do so.
Is there anything good aboutstress?
Speaker 2 (35:28):
There are a lot of good things about stress.
If I didn't have stress, Iwouldn't get anything done.
Pressure is productive.
If I didn't have stress tograde papers, I would never
grade papers, because it's aterrible job.
Deadlines are helpful for me.
Stresses are usually revelatory.
In other words, they willexplain to you where your
(35:50):
weaknesses are.
They will also show you where,maybe, those weaknesses are.
Fine.
Maybe it's okay that you can'tstretch yourself really thin on
these 12 things and maybe someof those 12 things just need to
go.
Stop stressing yourself outabout those.
But this stress over here withyour wife, this stress over here
(36:15):
with your health, this stressover no, that needs to be taken
care of.
Those are the things thatactually make some difference
and maybe you can't let those go.
If I ended up in a differentprofession, I guess I'd still be
okay with that, because I'vegot my God, I've got my wife,
I've got my family, and whatstresses me out there are the
(36:38):
stresses that actually make adifference.
They make me stronger.
There are stressors that justtear you down and maybe you need
to let go of those.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Sometimes failure is the lesson that you need to
learn Sometimes.
I was just thinking about anepisode I did a couple of years
ago about bridges and howastonished I was at the process
of bridge building as it existedbefore steel.
Anyway, used to be that youwould find out how much stress a
(37:11):
bridge could take by justbuilding with less and less
rocks and ultimately, when youstart building with steel, less
and less steel and one of thesedays the bridge fails and you
say I guess I need more thanthat.
This is the world beforeengineering really took off.
What a ridiculous way to liveyour life, but that's the way
you do.
That's the way that it works.
(37:33):
That's all you have.
You have to have a bridge thereand you can't go on just
assuming you need a hundredthousand pounds of stone to
build a bridge.
We're adventurous, we have topush things, we have to find out
what works and what doesn'twork and eventually we find out
that this bridge that we'rebuilding for ourself is just
inadequate.
(37:53):
I don't have enough time, Idon't have enough energy, I
don't have enough resources tokeep feeding this monster and
keeping it going.
I'm going to have to let itfall.
I'm just going to have to letit collapse, and that's not the
end of the world.
What is the end of the world isif the one bridge that I
absolutely have to have if thatfails, that's a disaster.
(38:14):
That's what I have to feed.
Everything that I have, all theresources that I have,
everything I can spare goes intothat area and fortifies it and
builds it up where I haveconfidence in that my faith, my
family, my ability to cope withreally important things in life.
Sometimes you find out that thething you absolutely could not
(38:37):
afford to lose, that's exactlywhat you have to lose.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
The people who end up mattering to me are the ones
who are reaching out, and thathas been a blessing to me.
I've gotten to the point veryrecently where I talk about
people being blessings, and mydefinition of blessing is people
who point me back to God.
You're one of them whobasically point me back to is
(39:05):
this what you're doing?
Is this helping you?
And the other ones that how canI help you get something else
done?
That, to me, has been a huge so, for example, I have every
intention to do the conferenceagain, and the first guy who
said can I help?
Speaker 1 (39:43):
you with this was you Al, so that means something to
be.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
I appreciate it, hal.
I appreciate what you're doing,not just for me, for other
people as well.
You're a good guy.
You are proving your worth overand over again.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
So I appreciate that.
I appreciate you very much,that's me to say, and your work
here is a blessing to us all.
Whatever we can do from aselfish perspective to keep your
spirits up a little bit, toalleviate your stress a little
bit, keep you on task, keep youserving us.
That's what we want to do.
You're a blessing.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
In some ways this felt like a very personal
therapy session, but in anotherway I thought that this is very
common for a lot of people to gothrough.
Another way, I thought thatthis is very common for a lot of
people to go through as we getolder, our health starts to
deteriorate, our choices becomeless obvious and it becomes both
easier and more difficult totrust that God has the future.
Just so you know, this episodewas basically recorded about two
(40:44):
or three months ago.
Kyle and I have been talkingvery recently about the
conference and I'll have more tosay about that in the next few
days.
I want to say again thanks toHal for doing this episode.
I want to thank you for yourpatience and I ask you again for
your prayers.
(41:05):
Next episode I plan to talk toMark Dunnigan.
Mark is somebody who I've knownfor a little while.
Me and his wife, cindy, havelived in an RV but also been
local to me.
For the last little bit we talkabout advice he wishes he could
give himself when he wasyounger.
So until next time, let's begood and do good.
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