Balancing Motherhood and Self-Care with Dr. MJ

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to Bearing it All with Rose and
Crystal.
Today we have Dr MJ, anaward-winning exercise and
nutrition coach and a meditationteacher dedicated to supporting
overwhelmed mothers.
She helps women startexercising, enjoy lifelong
nutrition and develop deephealth through her five pillars
menstrual cycle awareness,simple exercise, joyful

(00:20):
nutrition, stress management andrest and relaxation.
As a mother of three, dr MJ hasover a decade of experience in
research and coaching,passionately supporting pregnant
and postpartum women withevidence-based advice and
personal insights.
On a personal note, dr MJbalances motherhood with
self-care, healing generationaltrauma and achieving rockstar

(00:42):
confidence.
She's here to share her journeyfrom feeling overwhelmed to
making empowered health choices.
As a woman of colour, dr MJencourages putting health before
the hustle, because we onlyhave one life and one body.
Welcome, dr MJ.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
Hello everybody, holy schmoly, so excited to be on
the podcast today.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
We're so excited.
Thanks for coming in.
Oh, let's get this partystarted.

Speaker 3 (01:08):
It's a late one tonight.
Right, we've left the kids,we've made the dinners Well, I
actually didn't make anythingbecause I'm lazy but you cooked
dinner?

Speaker 2 (01:15):
I did.
I was like I better feed thesepeople before I leave.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
And, more importantly , what did you cook?
Because that's a thing of mine.
I love knowing what otherpeople eat for dinner.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
So I made this like pork curry thingy with lots of
veggies in there.
I'm Asian, like Chinese Asian.
Some people think I'm Korean orJapanese.
I'm Chinese, so I eateverything.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
Okay, we'll get to that later.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
So I made a pork curry and like a miso soup thing
, because my daughter likes misosoup.
And then we always have rice.

Speaker 3 (01:49):
So yeah, that's a staple.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yes, yeah, that's our thing, even though people say
like oh, don't eat white ricebecause you know it's like high
GI, blah, blah, blah.
I'm like can't help it.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
It's like saying don't eat pasta if you're
Italian, please, and excuse me.
Washing rice how important iswashing your rice?
Can we get that before we startinto the nitty gritty?
I've heard it's very important,do you?

Speaker 2 (02:11):
wash rice.
I do wash rice.
There's only one rice that Idon't wash, which is this Thai
purple rice thing.
You're not supposed to washthat, because all the goody is
on that purple coloured thing.
It's not actual purple colour,it's actually like this mineral
thing that's on top of the rice.
That's the only rice I don'twash.
Every other rice I will washuntil….
Do you wash multiple times tillthe water's clear?
Yes, three times at least.
Yeah, because there's stuff onit that you probably don't want

(02:33):
to ingest.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
There we go, guys.
Wash your rice, yes, wash yourrice my husband's Indian right.

Speaker 3 (02:40):
His parents wash rice and they reckon it comes out
fluffier the more you wash it.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
It does Also if you soak it for a little bit, it
will be like fluffier.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
Guys, don't tell you, can't say that we don't give
you all the tips here.
All right, I'm like we.
Dr MJ is actually here forother reasons, but point number
one that she's given us, she hasconfirmed wash your rice until
it runs clear.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
Exactly, and please don't measure water.
All you need is your finger toknow how much water to put in to
cook the rice.
How?

Speaker 1 (03:07):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Which finger.
So you know your index finger.
I mean, if you're listening,your index finger.
Yeah, you know how we have allthese lines on our fingers.

Speaker 3 (03:14):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
Index finger, the first line from your fingertip.
That has to be above the rice.

Speaker 3 (03:19):
Above the rice.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yes, that is how you measure water not by like the
cups and like how many cups ofrice to how many things of water
.
No just use your finger andthat first cut of that line,
place your nails on the surfaceof the rice and then the water
level.

Speaker 3 (03:35):
Just above to the rice.
Just to the rice.
See, I would think that wasn'tenough water.

Speaker 2 (03:40):
That would be perfect rice.

Speaker 1 (03:42):
We, oh my God, I feel like this is it.
I'm learning things.
She's a doctor.
I mean, that's why you're adoctor.
She has a PhD.
Guys, it's not in rice cooking.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
But I am training for MasterChef, are you?

Speaker 3 (03:54):
Stop Wait, guys.
That was announced here first.

Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yes, it was.
You heard it here before.
She's famous out there in theworld of the TV world.
She's been on Bearing it Allwith Rose and Crystal.
Yes, I have.
Okay.
Okay, what is your PhD in?

Speaker 2 (04:09):
Come on, let's get to that All right, let's get to
that.
My PhD is actually in exerciseand pregnancy and gestational
diabetes, and a lot of peopleare like, oh well, we don't
share their PhD results andthey'll be so happy about it,
but I spent four and a halfyears of my life collecting
information and data andtraining pregnant women all
around Perth and then theresults came out and my exercise

(04:32):
program didn't help.

Speaker 3 (04:39):
So yeah, so well, oh wait, your program didn't help.
Gestational.
Oh got you, it didn't helpprevent the condition from
reoccurring, so we were tryingto prevent a reoccurrence.

Speaker 2 (04:52):
So I was fighting a lot of battles, a lot of hills,
like trying to go up a lot ofhills, trying to fix that issue
with my exercise programEventually, like at the end,
because what I ran was arandomized, controlled trial.
So we have two groups.
One group got the exercise andone group didn't, and at the end
of it, when we eventuallytested all of them for
gestational diabetes, it was thesame amount of people in both

(05:14):
groups that got it.

Speaker 3 (05:15):
So essentially means Wait.
This is mice, though.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
No, human, oh human.
Can you imagine mice on abicycle?

Speaker 1 (05:26):
I swear I'm losing it .
I was like she didn't just saymice, but she did.
I thought you said you read itout of the text of mice.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
Hang on, I need to put on my Australian accent so
you can understand.

Speaker 3 (05:42):
I thought you said tickers and mice, but they were
pregnant mice weren't they, yeah, pregnant mice as I was
thinking I was like, holy shit,pregnant mice and they had to
distance you for a time, andthey were just running on their
wheel, oh my, God, oh, my God.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
Okay, so they were human.
These run on human.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
Did you also hear me say mice?
No, but that's why I nearlydied.

Speaker 1 (06:04):
I really had a heart attack.
She's still trying.

Speaker 3 (06:07):
I didn't, I swear.
I heard mice.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
There you go.
So it goes to show that youbasically can't prevent it.
If you're predispositioned tohaving gestational diabetes
during your pregnancy, that'sgot nothing to do necessarily
with being fitter or healthiernecessarily yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, I mean, these women already had it, so they
have a high chance of getting itanyway.
So we're trying to use exerciseto prevent it from happening
again, but I think there's someother thing to the equation that
we haven't really touched.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
Yeah, yeah, but I just love that you admitted
you're like my exercise programdidn't help.
No, yeah, but I just love thatyou admitted you're like my
exercise program didn't help,and I think that's the beauty of
authenticity as well, and beinghonest and raw and that's
actually why we love you.
You know what that's?
The whole reason for doingthings like this is to work it
out, and trial and error andfailure actually helps you learn

(07:00):
.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
Yeah, and there's this thing in research that we
say, when you have a negativeoutcome, it is still a positive
one because you learn.
Yeah, and there's this thing inresearch that we say, like when
you have a negative outcome, itis still a positive one,
because you learn okay, so thisdoesn't work, so what else is
going to work?
Then you've got to think aboutit even further and keep going.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
Yeah, so did you do your PhD in Australia?

Speaker 2 (07:17):
Yes, yes, At UWA, so that was where I was for like
majority of my time in Australia.

Speaker 1 (07:23):
That was where I was for like majority of my time in
Australia.
Yeah, okay, so you were born inSingapore and raised in
Singapore, and you came toAustralia when you were 19.

Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yeah, correct, that's huge.
Yeah, it was an adventure, Ithink.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
Did you come here with a partner?
No, I came here all by myself.
A lot of people like to saythat I'm like a lone wolf, I
like to do things by myself alot.
Yeah, that I'm like a lone wolf, I like to do things by myself
a lot Yep.
Because I'm also an introvert,so when I'm around too many
people it actually kind ofdrains me quite often.
But I didn't know that when Iwas young, but right now I do
know that that's just my thing.
Yeah.

(07:56):
So, but I came here by myself,I did a Bachelor in Exercise
Science and then I went on to domy honours and went out to work
for a little bit because I wastrying to get the scholarship to
do my PhD and I failed threetimes, but the final one they
offered it to me.
That's after three years.
So I was working with that andeventually I got the scholarship

(08:17):
and then I started my PhD, andthat's another story that we're
going to talk about.

Speaker 3 (08:23):
But when you came to Australia from Singapore, when
you first arrived here, what didyou think?
What did you think of theAussie culture and just in
general?

Speaker 2 (08:34):
Well, so I came from Singapore and Singapore is known
for being this highly efficientcountry.
Everything goes really fast,everyone's quite grumpy, nobody
says hi, everyone's just likeyou know, know, objective is to
get things done.
So when I first came here, I'mlike I'm calling up like
immigration, trying to get mystudent visa sorted out.
I'm like I had to wait threedays three days to get someone
to call me back in Singapore.

(08:55):
It's like if you want somethingdone within like half an hour,
someone's gonna call you back.
So that adjustment was very wasbeing patient and go.
Everybody's working in theirown time.
Just take it easy here.
But when you first come here,you're like, damn people, can
you work a little bit faster?

Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yeah, they work at a snail pace.
Yeah, very chill and relaxed.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
And I've learned that it's even slower in WA.
If you're over easy, it mightbe faster, is that right?

Speaker 1 (09:22):
WA has still got a big country town, vibe.

Speaker 2 (09:26):
I feel.

Speaker 1 (09:28):
It's still a lot more relaxed in a lot of ways.
I feel like up until 10, 15years ago, no shops opened on a
Sunday in.

Speaker 2 (09:39):
WA.
I remember that.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
And people go oh my God, what did you do with your
lives?
A lot.
But even like the 24-hoursupermarkets oh my God, what did
you do with your lives?
A lot.

Speaker 3 (09:45):
But even like the 24-hour supermarkets, like to be
honest, we still only have likea few right.
Yes, but in Sydney andMelbourne they're all 24 hours
Like what the heck that's weird.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
to me it is weird.

Speaker 3 (09:57):
But also like we whinge about being on the
freeway for 45 minutes andpeople are like I took three
hours to get to work in Sydney,oh my God.
So we're not used to that.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
We think that's huge and we waste time.
I think in WA we have a more.
We have beautiful weather andmore solid weather throughout
the year.
So when we opened the shops ona Sunday, to me, yeah, it was a
novelty at first, but most of usdon't give a shit because on a

(10:27):
Sunday it was very community,family orientated.
We went out and did things andso, yeah, we are a lot slower
than, like, I reckon, even theeastern states in that way.
So you came straight fromSingapore to Perth.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
Yes, yes, yes, because there was the sports
science degree at that point wasreally popular to come to W
it's.
Either we went to the UK, whichI couldn't afford, or we came
to Perth.

Speaker 3 (10:52):
I'm pretty sure, my husband did sports science.

Speaker 1 (10:55):
My brother and sister-in-law are both exercise
physiologists.
Yeah, see See.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
And I think being in Perth as well is the best place
to be active, because, like yousaid, the weather here is
amazing, and so, yeah, I camehere.
That was the thing that I wastrying to get used to people
working at a pace that I wasn'tused to, but right now I'm like
I'm fully, 100% West Australianpace.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
Oh, I love that and I love that.
Okay, so I actually met you andsaw you for the very first time
at an event that I emceed at,and you were one of the speakers
and Crystal was there as well,and you look, I'm just going to
call it you were my favouritespeaker.
You really captivated me.
I really didn't feel like Idon't know how long.

(11:38):
I think your speech was onlylike seven minutes.
It wasn't enough for me.
I was like tell me more, tellme more of your story.
There were so many points whereI was like I want to know about
.

Speaker 3 (11:48):
Dr MJ, at the end of the night, me and Rose came
together to chat about the nightand we both went to each other.
Are we going to ask her?
Yeah, we're going to ask her.
She's going to be on the pottyStraight away.
We just we loved your vibe,like you were so funny and just
yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
Honest and just what you saw.
Well, what you see is what youget and I still feel like that.
This is our second like propermeeting and it just feels so
comfortable.
But one of the things thatreally got me when you were
speaking it really suckerpunched me is you said when I
was growing up and you talkedabout your generational trauma

(12:23):
that you didn't know you had,but now you do and you're
working through it is that youdidn't have a lot of joyful
moments or can't remember a lotof joyful moments in your
childhood and it broke my heartand intrigued me and I really
want to know like how, why andhow it's impacted you now having

(12:47):
your own kids.
You're a mother of three.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
But yeah, that really got me and I know it got
Crystal as well is you're notfinding the joy in your
childhood or remembering it andhow it's affected you now with
your kids, like you've got threekids of your own and working
through it, like we want to knowa little bit more about that.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
Okay.
So about my childhood I think Ireally started looking into all
of this like generationaltrauma kind of stuff, probably
back in 2018.
Like, I got quite sick when Iwas in Singapore, visiting
Singapore, with my kids I hadonly two kids back then and I
had this issue with my gut.

(13:29):
I was bleeding into it and thenI also had all these blood
rashes on my body and I kind ofjust was really sick and it
really stopped me from doing thework.
I was running an exercise group, fitness group for mothers
where I lived at that time and Iwas just hustling all the time.
And then when I got toSingapore and then I got really

(13:49):
sick and got, like my bodyforced me to stop, you see.
So it's like, okay, you're goingto get this disease, you're
just going to stay in thehospital for seven days or eight
days, can't remember, and I'mgoing to peel your children away
from you because they can'tstay at the hospital.
So then that happened to me my,my cousin at the time, she, she
, well, at that time, my cousinat the time, my cousin is still
my cousin, my cousin's still mycousin.

(14:11):
She came to visit me.
She was going through, uh,stage four breast cancer.
But she came to the hospital tosee me and she was telling me
all these things about how she'sgoing through this healing
process, not just for her cancer, but also all the stuff that
happened to her when she was akid.
I'm Chinese, like I said, wehave lots of things that we
don't talk about.
There's lots of like you stuffyour feelings down, you don't

(14:33):
talk about your feelings and youjust keep working hard and
become a slave.
That's the kind of childhood wehad.
She's telling me all thesethings and she's saying I'm
gonna get you a reiki healer andshe's gonna come here to the
hospital bed and she's gonna doher magic.
And at that point I was like areiki healer what the hell is

(14:53):
that?
And like I've done yoga, I'vedone my meditation when I was
younger and but I was like reiki, are you kidding me?
But then, at the point, you'resick, you're just there and you
just sort of like uh let's just,what does it hurt?
yeah, so this lady came, thischinese lady, and she was just
like oh, you just lie there andI'm just gonna sit here with you
and I'm just gonna be moving myhands all around your body,

(15:14):
like just just just relax andbreathe.
And then I was like, okay, so II laid there.
And then she did that for likea good like 25, 30 minutes.
I was like, fuck, nothing'shappening, like this is bullshit
.
And and then, but I was like,never mind, keep in mind, you
know, you're already sick,you're lying here, can't go
anywhere, anyway, you're hookedup to all the ivs.
So you're like I can't run.

(15:36):
And so she did this thing.
And then, and then, after awhile, she just came to my ear
and then she just whispered shegoes, just let it go.
And in that moment I I don'tknow what came over me.
Yeah, I burst into tears andlike I was coughing, coughing,
coughing, I was breathing harderand harder and I wasn't like, I

(15:56):
wasn't like faking it, becauseI was just like, oh my god, I
feel like I need to breathe.
And I was breathing, andbreathing, and breathing and
breathing.
And next thing, when she saidthat, I just burst into tears,
tears.
And then, after I burst intotears, I had this like flushed
face, yeah, or like I lookedlike I had makeup on and also
because of my blood rash that Ihad in my body.
The nurses would come in andthey'd be like are you okay?

(16:17):
How come your face so red?
And I'm in Singapore, so theytalk like that um why, come your
face so red and and I was likewhat?
no, I'm actually feeling likethe best that I've ever felt in
my entire life, like I was whatI was 30 ish in my young, early
30s, at that point and and I waslike I feel so good, I feel
like something's released,something is released from my
throat, and then she she thengave me a debrief through this

(16:39):
reiki healer and she said youknow, you're very blocked up in
your throat chakra.
There there's lots of thingsthat you haven't spoken about in
your entire life and there'slots of issues with your solar
plexus and I was having a gutissue at that point.
Yeah, so like I know it'sgetting very woo-woo, I know I'm
a scientist, but like I lovemy….

Speaker 3 (16:56):
We like woo-woo.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
But I love that you're….
Yeah, but I love science and Ilove weiwei yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
I tell you, both of these things need to work
together and everybody will behealthier.
So that sort of put me on thisjourney where I started to learn
about generational trauma,started to learn about like all
the stuff that has beenhappening to me since my
childhood and it kind of justlike opened my eyes.
And in that period of when Igot out of the hospital, my kids
have already come back to Perthand with my husband, and I was

(17:23):
there by myself.
I went, I went to see a psychicand then I don't tell this to
many people because people youknow, they look at you funny
when you tell them I saw apsychic and then the psychic
told me all these things.
They'd be like the psychic islying lah.
I'd be like I believe, but Ibelieve because the psychic said
so much, and then I'm very goodat not saying things.

(17:43):
Yes, so I went in there and Iwas like so tell me, what do you
want me to know?

Speaker 1 (17:49):
and I gave her nothing.
Yep, yep, that would be me.
When I first ever saw her, Iwas like you tell me, mate,
you're the psychic exactly go onand and she was this.

Speaker 2 (17:57):
She was this American lady actually, like she lived
in an apartment near where mybrother was living at that time
and and she has, like thisbeautiful white hair but in a
bob, like she's like one ofthose cool ladies that you see
in the movies, and I rememberher telling me this she's like
I'm not feeling too well at themoment, I'm just having the
sniffles and you know what makesit the best Apricot jam.

(18:19):
She said it in an Americanaccent Whenever you're sick,
just have apricot jam.
I'm like I'm here to have arating.
I'm here to like get you totell me about what I should do
in my life.
Why are you telling me aboutapricot jam?
But anyway, it's actually goodadvice, because nowadays, when
I'm sick, I always now you haveapricot jam.
She's in my head.
Apricot jam.

(18:41):
It's been how many years Istill think about apricot jam
when I'm sick, on toast, yeah.
So she told me a lot of stuffat that point and I was like, oh
, okay, and it just set me on onthis journey and then I started
for some reason, you know,because Instagram's very clever
social media knows what you'relooking for.
I started to see all thesethings.

(19:01):
And then the holisticpsychologist on Instagram popped
up and she's talking about thisgenerational trauma how you
grow up and then you have nomemories of your childhood
because your brain is protectingyourself.
And then I started thinkingabout my childhood.
I was like, oh, what's so badabout my childhood?
Like, seriously, I was clothed,I had a roof over my head.
Both my parents worked reallyhard, but the one thing that

(19:23):
really stuck out for me was thatI grew up in a family not so
much my immediate family, moreso like the extended family as
well.
They're very angry people.
Yeah, the emotions there's notmuch emotions.
Usually, when you see them,it's anger, anger.

(19:44):
Everyone is just like.
My family is from an area in.
My grandparents were in an areain China where, when they're
talking, it sounds like they'refighting and shouting.
So there's a lot of that anyway.
But where I grew up, there'sreally a lot of anger, and my
mother was a very hardworkingwoman and she was trying to show

(20:07):
that she's as good as the boysin her life her brothers so she
was always very stressed out andso when she came home, we often
had weekends where we're justlike waiting for her to explode.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yes, okay.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
So my childhood.
When I say I don't havememories because I now know,
it's because we were alwaysanticipating, fearing oh, she's
going to get angry.
Better do you know?
We're always in flight, offlight.
Now they say that.
So because you're in thatflight of flight situation, you

(20:41):
don't retain a lot of things.
Yes, so I look back onchildhood photos and I'm like,
oh, actually we went to allthese places but I don't
remember.
I know it's sad, I don'tremember the fun things that we
do.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
Yeah, because you're always in a state of fear.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
A state of fear because you're thinking, oh man,
someone's going to get angry,better do this.
And then she really does getangry, and then you go like,
yeah, and in knowing that aswell, I noticed that I was doing
that to my kids, especially myfirst one.
Yes because we don't know anybetter.
We don't know any better, butthen, now that I know better,
I'm like man.

Speaker 3 (21:17):
But I was just about to say, like how many of us lose
our crap on a daily at our kids, like we just explode sometimes
, and that's what I was about tosay.
Like what was your mom gettingannoyed over?
Was it just like you guys wereuntidy or, um, you know she had
to clean up, or was it thingslike that?
Because, I swear to god, I dothat all the time yeah, yeah,
exactly.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
And I kind of know why she did that at that time,
because now my children aredoing the same thing, because
children don't see these thingsbut adults see all of that.
You know, this is the messnobody's cleaning up, and and so
I know why she was that way,because, like, I have so many
days where I am that way.
But it really hit me one timewhere, when I was like about to

(21:57):
lose my shit and I saw my eldest, his shoulders just went, he
tensed up he tensed up and Ijust went like, oh my god, but
you, he tensed up and I justwent like, oh my God.

Speaker 1 (22:05):
But you lived like that almost yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
And I had no realisation and I think my mum
at the point, even to this day,she probably didn't have that
realisation that we have thattrigger where we go like and
freeze and like oh man, betterbe on the best behaviour.
How do?

Speaker 1 (22:20):
you think that actually affected you as an
adult.
So how do?

Speaker 2 (22:28):
you think that?

Speaker 1 (22:28):
actually affected you as an adult.
So, growing up in theenvironment where you were more
so always in a state of fear andthat you almost had like you
were trying to be people-pleased, in a way, like you were trying
to please your mum and dad andbe good and not like trigger
your mum to be explosive.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
How do you feel like it sent you as an adult?
How did it affect you?

Speaker 2 (22:48):
I think I was always trying to do the right thing,
like always, to the point where,even as a young adult, I don't
remember myself having lots offun.
Also, growing up in Singapore,you're kind of moulded to become
a producer, a producer ofoutcomes.
You've got an objective, youget it done.
You've got a producer, aproducer of outcomes, like, you
got an objective, you get itdone.
You got an objective, you getit done.

(23:08):
And in a way that is as much asit was self-limiting for a bit
it is also like a positive thingfor me, because I swear if I
didn't have that instilled intome, I wouldn't have finished my
PhD.

Speaker 1 (23:22):
Yeah, so there's positives that happened.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
But also things that you would have liked to have
changed.
Yeah, Like.

Speaker 2 (23:32):
I wish.

Speaker 3 (23:33):
I would have had more fun when.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
I was at uni here got to know more people on a deeper
level, whereas I've alwaysthought nobody wants to know me.
Like who cares, I'm just thisAsian.

Speaker 3 (23:40):
But you're probably so focused on the end game,
right?

Speaker 2 (23:42):
Yeah, I, but you're probably so focused on the end
game, right yeah, I just want toget it done.
Yeah, that's right, yeah, andso I don't think I'm a people
pleaser in a sense that I wantto make people like me, but if
somebody asks me to do somethingfor them, I will get it done.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
So I'm not the sort where I'll do it.
Oh, you're outcome driven, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:59):
And I'm still very much outcome driven to this day,
still very much outcome drivento this day, which, but again
I'm trying to like do less ofthat, I'm trying to but I've got
a question Like even though youmoved to Australia on your own,
was there still that that youneeded to please your parents by
coming here finishing your PhD?

Speaker 3 (24:14):
Like was that in the back of your head, yeah, that
you needed to get that done sothat you had, like a certain
status to them?
I guess, yeah, I think so Ifeel like a lot of cultures.
They have that.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
I think I remember thinking to myself oh, I got to
do this PhD because a sportsscience degree can only get you
so far.
So then I was like I need tobecome an expert at something
and I loved pregnant people andloved that Because, like 10
years ago, the notion ofexercising when you're pregnant
is still like a no-no, like, oh,when you're pregnant, don't
move, don't move.
But it's changed so much now,which is great, and so I was

(24:49):
really excited when I got thatresearch study to study that.
But also I just wanted to showmy parents because I was the
youngest right, I was alwaysmore so of the rebel Like my,
the ones that will listen towhatever my parents say and they
would act that way.
But I'm the, the baby, the baby,and I have a third kid right
now and I think I know why thirdkids are like that.

(25:12):
He's a bit of my third, it's abit of a psycho, but I love him.
Um, but he's just morefree-spirited, which is what I
think I was probably like, andso when I finished my degree, I
was thinking to myself oh, Idon't really want to go back to
Australia, I mean go back toSingapore.
I'm going to stay here.
I got a job, but even though Igot a job and I was paying my
own bills and things like that,my parents thought I was having

(25:34):
fun here.
I was like I'm trying to build alife for myself.
But they thought come home now,stop playing.
Can you stop doing that?
You come home, I buy you a car.
I was like I don't want a car.
And I want to say this inSingapore, if someone wants to
buy you a car, it's a big deal,because you don't just pay for
the car, you pay for thecertificate that says you can

(25:55):
own a car, which is often moreexpensive than the car.
So they were trying to.
Really they wanted you to comehome, yeah, but I was like nope,
I'm going to build a life here?

Speaker 1 (26:04):
Yeah, and you wanted to do it on your terms, then
yeah, I just needed that space.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
I think yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:09):
And what did your brother and sister do Like?
What did their occupation endup being Like?
Is one a doctor and onesomething else?

Speaker 2 (26:15):
No, my sister is an engineer as well.
She works with my dad right now, my brother, he actually he
runs a very successful kids'clothing business with my
sister-in-law.
Oh wow, yeah, in Singapore.
They're the petite society,like they're everywhere, like
they're pretty cool onlinebusiness Cool.

Speaker 3 (26:30):
Yeah, yeah, I was just wondering.
Yeah, so you?

Speaker 2 (26:33):
get curious like that .

Speaker 1 (26:35):
Yeah, no, you need to know.
I was like what else do you do?
So that's a lot.

Speaker 2 (26:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:42):
You have done a lot, and and how old are you now?
You're the same age as us.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
Yeah, I'm the same age as you guys.

Speaker 1 (26:45):
I was like yeah listening to you 39, baby.
Yeah, we're in the 40s, butyou've done so much.
I mean it's quite amazing.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
But you see, when you say that, I feel very
uncomfortable.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
I'm going to make you more uncomfortable.

Speaker 2 (26:59):
She's done a lot and she needs to be proud.
It's very hard for me.
It took me so long to learn tolike hey, mj, you actually did
pretty good.

Speaker 3 (27:08):
Even when I say that, I feel like I said this to Rose
before you came in I was liketo get a PhD.
You need to be smart.
I ain't that kind of smart.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
Yeah, and she's feeling uncomfortable now you
should see her mate.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
She looks like she's about to take her jacket off.
She's getting weird.
She'd rather us talk aboutanything else now.
And she's getting weird.
She'd rather us talk aboutanything else now?

Speaker 3 (27:25):
Yeah, and also we discussed that when you first
started it like you fellpregnant.

Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yeah, I did.
Oh, that's a story we're goingto jump into.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
That's it.
So you started a PhD that wasgoing to involve pregnant women.

Speaker 3 (27:40):
Yep Crystal, not pregnant mice.

Speaker 1 (27:44):
Not pregnant mice, Pregnant women and you actually
fell pregnant.
I did Before.
Well, just as you were startingthe PhD.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
Oh my gosh, how did MJ, how did this happen?

Speaker 3 (27:59):
She was exercising.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
You were doing different type of exercise.
I was exercising with myhusband.
I accidentally fell.
Surprise, I was exercising withmy husband, Accidentally fell.
See, at that point I wasn'tvery good at tracking my own
cycle, Silly silly Anyway.
That gets you into trouble.
That's why you need to knowyour cycle Right.
Were you surprised then?
So it wasn't like, oh whoops,Because my husband and I were
like, oh, we're just going toget married.

(28:22):
We were only six months married.
And then we were like I, wewere only six months married.
And then we were like I want todo my PhD for a bit before we
start getting pregnant, Becausethere's also, like, the
maternity scholarship that willcome in after you've been in
your PhD for 12 months.
So obviously my son had adifferent idea.
He's like, oh, mommy, I'm goingto pop a neon in.
Yeah, I want out soon.

(28:43):
No damn that.
So then he came along a bitearlier.
So then I did my PhD for a bitout sooner than that.
So then he came along a bitearlier.
So then I did my PhD for a bit.
Actually, I should start at thestart.
I went into the office that dayand I was like first meeting
with the supervisor and I waslike, oh shit, I have to tell
her this because I feel like Ishould.
But although at that point Iwas pretty young, I got pregnant
when I was 26?

Speaker 3 (29:01):
25?
26?
.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
I can't remember, but around that time, um, and and I
thought to myself, I wasn'tlike really aware that you only
tell people you're pregnant whenyou're 12 weeks, at least 12
weeks pregnant I was just likeoh my god, I'm pregnant,
pregnant, seven weeks pregnant,I'm pregnant.
And then I went in there.
I was like I was telling her oh, yeah, I'm pregnant.
Then she was like oh, are youthree months into it?
I was like uh, no, I'm onlyseven weeks and then wow, she's

(29:25):
keen she's so excited.
And then I was like, oh, andthen I learned later on because
I started working pregnantpeople right, you don't tell
people that so soon because younever know what will happen to
the pregnancy until 12 weeks.
So anyway, I told her that andthen I was, and then I thought
she was going to ask me to likeget out of the room.
You're not doing this projectanymore.
We need somebody like like init, committed, committed.
And then, but she wasn't.

(29:45):
She was was really nice.
She was like that's okay, we'llsupport you as much as we can
and get you going.
And I was like, oh, my god.

Speaker 1 (29:51):
It's refreshing to see and hear that, especially
from another woman, and I lovethat it's changing.

Speaker 3 (29:58):
I mean, I do wonder, if it was a man boss, if it
would have been handleddifferently.
I don't know, it probably wouldhave been.

Speaker 1 (30:04):
I agree.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
Yeah, because there was also man bosses on on the
panel, the people that I workedwith, and it's a bit different,
but we won't go there that isanother.

Speaker 1 (30:14):
We could go down that rabbit hole.

Speaker 2 (30:16):
Yeah and oh so much to talk about that.
Yeah, but we won't, yeah.
So then I went in there andthen and got told I was pregnant
.
But then I went on and I didthe research for as long as my
baby would stay in there.
And I did the research and thenI went off for maternity for a
bit and then came back and sortof juggled motherhood and PhD,

(30:36):
which I do not recommend anybody.
Do you know how sometimes, whenpeople start having babies,
they're like oh, I'm going tostart a business, oh, I'm going
to go study, I'm going to dothis, I'm going to do that.
Actually, you know, ladies,when you have a baby, you should
just focus on the baby, becauseit's going to suck your life
out of you and really there'snot much capacity left when you
have to keep.

Speaker 3 (30:55):
Yeah, you kind of lose a few brain cells, don't
you?

Speaker 2 (30:57):
More than that, I think yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
And I like, since you mentioned capacity, your thing
is cup-pacity.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
Yes, can you explain that?

Speaker 1 (31:07):
What is my capacity Like cup, as in like C-U-P?
My capacity, and apparentlyfrom what I've seen you talk
about, is we all have adifferent sized cup.

Speaker 3 (31:17):
Yes, we all have a different sized cup.

Speaker 1 (31:18):
Yes, we do.

Speaker 3 (31:19):
I got a fairly large one.

Speaker 1 (31:21):
Yeah, mine's a bit deflated, but it is a large cup.
Yeah, mine is a pancake.
I started with not much anywayand breastfeeding has.
Yeah, we can all relate.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
So capacity, it's not a spelling error, because a lot
of people are like what Did shespell wrong?
She has a PhD, she cannot spell.
But no, it was on purpose,because you always hear people
talk about oh, mothers, you haveto fill your cups first before
you can look after other people.
So then I was like playing onthat twist about that cup and
then obviously some peopledidn't get it and asked me if I
could spell.

Speaker 1 (31:51):
But I can um she's a doctor guy, I think it's clever
I like it?

Speaker 2 (31:56):
yeah, because I work with mothers, you see.
So then I'm like you know, talkabout your cup.
So everybody has a differentcapacity because it depends it
comes down to, like how muchsupport you have in your
motherhood.
Uh, how do you work full-time?
Do you mother full-time?
Do you um?
And whatever you do in yourversion of your motherhood is
hard, regardless, you know, um.
But so some women, because ifthey have more support, they

(32:18):
have their, you know theirspouses, parents are here, their
own parents are here, aroundthem.
They can go like, oh, can youhelp me out with, with, with my,
for a bit?
I want to work on this passionproject that I have, and so that
feels a lot easier.
In that sense, then thecapacity is slightly larger
because they can share the loadof this parenting job with other

(32:38):
people.
Like there's people who lovethe children there, but in my
case, because my in-laws arefrom Thailand, my parents are in
Singapore, there isn't really alot of people I can call on.
And even when you do have a fewgood friends also, I have that
thing where I must do everythingby myself, which stems from my
childhood again, and you feellike I cannot trouble people

(33:01):
Don't trouble other people, youknow.
So then you don't ask for help,so you just try and do
everything by myself.
And when I first started mybusiness um, running active mama
tribe I did everything bymyself and I was like, but I
still also want to keep mychildren close to me.
No, nobody is good enough tolook after them, only me.
And then, but I also wanted torun my business.
And then after a while you golike, how come my business is

(33:23):
not like skyrocketing, eventhough I have so much passion
for it, and how come I feel likeI'm always screaming at my
children?
And then and that's like when Ihad the two kids I often also
feel like I don't remember muchof my daughter's childhood.
That's another sad thing that Ihaven't.
I haven't had another talk togo to and share that story, but
I often feel, because I was likethat was in the thick of

(33:44):
developing my business, I don'tremember much of her as a baby
and like as a toddler.
How old is she now?
She's eight.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
I can relate to that.
So my first two.
I've got four kids as you knowI've got two older kids and two
younger kids, and I was 23 whenI had my first.
I worked so much.
I come from an ethnicbackground, so I'm very much
like nodding along here in thesense of I must do everything by
myself because I'm a proudperson and I had too much ego

(34:16):
and also I want to show myfamily how capable I am.
I'm the oldest female, in amajority male dominated.
All my brothers and my cousinsare boys, everything like that.
But also I totally agreebecause I also don't want to
trouble people.
I was brought up with parentsthat you do it by yourself.

(34:38):
Don't burden other people withyour problems.
Don't burden other people withyour kids, and so it's easy to
burn out and I can very muchrelate to that, and I don't
remember much of my daughters,both of them growing up.
I don't remember them.
I don't even think I saw themwalk for the first time.
I missed out on so manymilestones and.

(35:01):
I have a lot of guilt over thatsame because you don't get back.
But when you look at it now,because I've got the other two,
that are the younger two, Ithink, oh my God, you have so
much time to make money.
You have so much time to goback to work full time if you
want to.
But at the moment I actually dowant to watch them grow up.

(35:25):
And that's a choice, that's apersonal choice for me.
I've got nothing against mumsthat want to go back to work
full time I've been there, I getit, and sometimes it's a
necessity, but I'm in a positionnow where I'm like no, I
actually want to watch thatbecause I miss it.

Speaker 3 (35:39):
But do you think that's because of the older too?
That's how come you've got tothis spot.

Speaker 1 (35:44):
I think it's easier for me to see now for sure.
Like I'm sitting back and I'min a very privileged position in
that sense of saying I'veactually had two older ones and
made those mistakes, and nowI've got two younger ones, and
do I want to repeat thosemistakes?
I've got the opportunity tochange things.
So without having the older two, you don't know what you don't

(36:04):
know.
Yeah, but I did always regretit.
So without having the older two,you don't know that you don't
know what you don't know, yeahbut I did always regret it, even
without having the last two, Ido remember going oh my god, I
missed so much, but for what?

Speaker 3 (36:17):
for what well?
I was like I'm gonna own my ownbusiness and I'm gonna have so
much flexibility to be a mum,except for owning my own
business.
Business I had no time I shouldhave gone and worked for
somebody.
At least I might have had a dayoff, correct?

Speaker 2 (36:32):
And that's something that you only realise after
you've gone through it, Becausepeople go oh, I'm my own boss,
I'm flexible with my time.
But, like you said, you areflexible with the time, but it
is also extremely time consumingand it consumes your mind and
in that stage, you're learningabout social media, you're
learning about running.
You know websites and thingsand learning how to sell Like

(36:54):
that was my big thing when Istarted the business.
Like I have a PhD.
People go oh, she got PhD,she's a smart lady, but I did
not know how to run a business.
Like you have to.
You need a degree for that.
That's why people do that aswell, right?
Or people like a whole notherball game, it's a whole nother
boy.
How do you sell?

Speaker 3 (37:09):
yourself, holy shit, and also selling yourself takes
like a lot of guts right,because you're like promoting
yourself.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
You have to practice, and now my skin is so thick.
You can say anything to me, Idon't care, but at first, at
first, you'll be like, yeah,every, every knockback hurts.

Speaker 1 (37:25):
But yeah, that brings me to another like question is
do you feel like mums at themoment, in this day and age, in
our age group, our demographic,have a huge amount more pressure
on us?
Oh, so much more Because ofsocial media, because of like.
It's almost like the era of thewoman can do it all, which I

(37:47):
love, that we're in our likeempowerment era.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
But almost do you see that a lot in women.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
I see that a lot and I wish to become the voice that
tells women and moms out therethat you don't have to do so
much, well, that's the voice Iwant to hear.
There is a lot of pressure.
There is a lot of pressure.

Speaker 3 (38:09):
Because we want to also be the breadwinners.
Yeah, there's none of this likewhy do our husbands have to?

Speaker 2 (38:12):
well, I don't know, maybe it's just me.
No, no, I'm like?

Speaker 3 (38:14):
why does the man have to be the one that always earns
more money?

Speaker 2 (38:16):
why can't the woman earn more money but it does come
with sacrifices, right, it doesand and I think it's not so
much being for me, it's not somuch being the breadwinner for
me, it's just being financiallyindependent.
Yes, I want to be able to go tothe shops and I'm like, oh, I
like that dress and I'll buythat dress.
Oh, I want that and I'll buy itand I won't feel like I have to
ask my husband is it okay forme to spend this money?

(38:38):
because, like I just want to.
At the university I was like Ican't buy that If I spend that,
I feel bad spending my husband'shard-earned money getting
something that's nice.

Speaker 3 (38:51):
But now I'm like yeah , I just had this conversation
with my sister on the way herebecause Decuba have 20% off sale
right now, so I went to townlast night I bought five more
pairs of those jeans I alreadygot and I told my sister, just
go and buy it.
She's like no, no, I can't.

Speaker 2 (39:06):
Yeah, and I was like why?

Speaker 1 (39:10):
It's that thing where I'm just like yeah, yeah,
there's so many different levelsof pressure and do you find
that like when you are in yourbusiness, that that's what
people are coming like?
Women are coming to you withburnout.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
Yeah, they are, or like just the struggles of
motherhood and or like just thestruggles of motherhood.
And then because I work withwomen, from like having their
first child and like in the youknow, not sleeping stage, to
like women who have already havea lot of kids in their life and
they're just trying to findtheir health amongst all of it.
And then I feel like in thecurrent fitness industry or the

(39:43):
health industry, people alwaysmake you just have to do your
exercise, make sure you drinkyour water, uh, eat your
proteins, and then you're justtelling people to do more and
more and more, whereas asmothers there's already too much
in our fucking cup.
We can't I actually can't.
So.
So when people work with me, Ialways ask them what is one
thing you can give up before youstart working with me?

Speaker 1 (40:02):
because you have to give up something first ah, yeah
, there's always sacrifice love,that you have to let up
something first.

Speaker 2 (40:06):
There's always sacrifice Love, that you have to
let something go first, likesomething that really doesn't
make you feel like it'ssomething that you don't go like
.
Yeah, I'm going to do this.
Today.
Something is just like oh man,I have to do this and let go of
that thing and then work on yourhealth.
You need to create something.

Speaker 3 (40:19):
What is that for you?
Like if you had to give up,like what do I give up?

Speaker 1 (40:27):
This is what I think is really interesting and I
think people are going to get alot from is what you've just
said.
Here is, and it's somethingthat rings true in my head every
time.
I saw something a long whileago and it always sticks in my
head Every time you say yes toan opportunity, you say no to
something else, you say no tosomething else Now.
while that's a beautiful thing,saying yes to opportunities all

(40:50):
the time, you need to actuallyconsider what are you saying no
to when you say yes to thatthing.
Yeah absolutely, and so you dohave to give something up.
Something's got to give if youwant to fit it all in, and
that's something I've alwaysstruggled with.
I take on and take on and takeon Crystal's the same.

(41:11):
We are all the same but then,yeah, I know, see, I know you're
the same because I listen toyou speak.
But then what do we need togive up to be able to fit in
something that's important Forme?
I struggle to look after myself, mj.
I struggle to eat after myself,mj.
I struggle to eat properly, tofeed myself.
The last thing on my mind isactually cooking myself a

(41:32):
nutritious meal.
I don't eat shit, don't get mewrong, but it seems like the
least important thing in my daybecause it takes is worrying
about what you're going to eatyeah, because and my health
suffers for that.
So I love that you've mentioned.
What are you going to give upbefore you start concentrating
on working with you and workingon your health?

Speaker 3 (41:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
What is it?

Speaker 3 (41:58):
Yeah, because I don't have that answer.
If you ask me, what am I givingup, I have no idea.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
What are some like easy ideas?
What are things that we couldgive up, for example?

Speaker 2 (42:09):
Well, I always take my clients through this thing,
those people who are strugglingto find out what to let go.
It's just a list.
You list out everything thatyou are doing right now in your
entire life, down to droppingkids off and all those kind of
stuff that you have to do inyour daily life, and then,

(42:32):
basically, I get them to rate it.
What we've just it's verysimple is either you put a
smiley face or you put like asad face emoji, okay, okay.
So you go through the list andthen you're like oh yeah, this
one makes me smile, this onemakes me smile, this one makes
me smile, this one yeah, itdoesn't really make me smile
that much.
And then you just go throughthe entire list and then at the
end of it, you'll have this listwhere you have lots of smiles

(42:52):
and lots of like.
So then you focus in on allthose that make you go like sad
face.

Speaker 1 (42:57):
Everything that's making you that's not bringing
you joy.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
That's not bringing you joy, that's making oh man, I
have to do this damn.
And then you go through thelist.
Everyone has a different list,obviously.
Um, you go through that listand then and then see on that
list, is there anything I candelegate out to someone else?
Like, if you hate doing laundry, can I get someone to wash my?
I mean, obviously it comes downto income and whether you can
afford it as well, but obviously, going through that list, you
can see there are certain thingsonline.

(43:20):
There's this group of peoplethat you don't really want to
talk to a lot all the time, butyou feel like obligated to keep
up this friendship.
But then, is it really bringingyou joy?
Is it taking time away from youactually honoring your own body
and doing the right thing foryou?
And if that answer is yes, thenyou have to quietly just say
you know, start saying no, awayfrom it, because a lot of women

(43:41):
can't say no and like I'm a lonewolf, right.
so all these social stuffsometimes like, oh actually,
sorry, I'm not feeling well.
Or sometimes I use my kids andmy kids not feeling well.
Or sometimes I use my kids ohmy kid's not feeling well, but
actually my kids are fine.
I'm telling you the truth,that's fine, I love that.
Honestly, this is my honesty.
I think we have all done it,yeah, and I think it's healthy.

Speaker 1 (43:59):
It's creating healthier habits.
And I think even Financialaside, I haven't always been in
a really great financialposition I know, when I was 23,
when I had my first kid, and 24or 25, that was a lot Like.
So I think, even if you don'thave finances, I'm going to get
someone else to do my laundry.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
There are things like that, you can let go.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
You can let go of, like, I think for me.
Me and my girlfriend gottogether at one stage when we
were like working on our fitnessand instead of meal prepping
alone, we both went groceryshopping.
We brought the same things,just double of everything, and
we had a meal prep day togetherand we cooked together all day
and then we divided the mealsbetween us, so we all had heaps

(44:42):
of different food.
Yeah, we had a great,fulfilling day together as
friends.
Yeah, we shared the workload.
I didn't have to pay anythingor anyone else yeah.
And I had fresh prep meals.
Yeah, that came out of a reallygreat day.
Yeah, but it was.
It meant sacrificing eighthours, but it didn't cost me

(45:06):
anything extra and you justreminded me of that.
I was like it didn't cost meanything extra and you just
reminded me of that.
I was like it didn't cost meanything extra, but it brought
me joy.
I got to hang out with myfriend.
We cooked two sets of like wedid double the cooking and we
also cooked everything that wassuper healthy and meal prepped
because we both had partnersthat worked.
Fifo.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:24):
And so it doesn't always have to be financial
either.

Speaker 2 (45:26):
Absolutely, and I like that you said that, because
I think often in our day andage we feel like motherhood is
so lonely.
People all do it themselves.
But if you can really be luckyenough like the two of you found
each other and you've got thatbond, then you can lean into
each other.
But I feel like maybeespecially in Western Australia
as well because we're all sospaced apart, a lot of people

(45:49):
are doing it by themselves andwe don't lean into each other.
So when, when we had this, whenI had the active mama tribe
going, uh, more than justexercise, it was also like a
community and women would leaninto each other.
And when women lean into eachother, you see this, this just
amazing joy, that just feels astrue and everyone's helping each
other.
And then you know like eatinghealthy becomes less hard

(46:11):
because everyone's doing ittogether.
You bake this, you bake this,you make this, and then we all
share so that everyone's justdoing one thing, but then we all
have variety, that kind ofthing.
So I think that is like anexcellent example of like how
you can have be healthy but nothave to like fuck out lots and
lots of money to be healthy,yeah, and also community and
friendships.

(46:31):
Like.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
I remember those first having my first kids.
I was quite lonely.
I didn't join a mother's group,I was working full time and I
think having those friendshipsreally do help you in motherhood
and help you get back on track.
That's how I did get fit andhealthy after I had the first
two.
Friendships really do help youin motherhood and help you get
back on track.
Yeah, that's how I did get fitand healthy after I had the
first two.

Speaker 3 (46:50):
Did you feel, though, like your friendship group
around you didn't have kids thesame time as you?

Speaker 1 (46:55):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (46:55):
Yeah, that was the same with me.

Speaker 2 (46:56):
Same me too.
When I had my first, all myfriends were still, like you
know partying, partying Single.
Yeah, yes.
Yeah, exactly, yeah exactly, andlike doing your PhD as the only
person with a baby.
That's really hard.
You feel like you can't network.
I've always felt like my PhDI'm gonna say this out loud, say
it I always felt like my PhD islike lesser than the the other

(47:18):
person who was doing their PhD,who could focus on their PhD
because mine, well, I loveddoing what I did, my mind was
still with my kid all the timeand I gave up opportunities
because I was like, no, my sonneeds me so.
I gave up lots.
So I always have this thingwhere I go like, oh man, my PhD
is different from because, likethis person did their PhD, they

(47:38):
went to Europe and presentedtheir study and like I went to
Melbourne, I mean it's not thatit's a bad thing, but I still
did it.
But then you feel you know inyour own head you have this
level and you're going like, ohman, it's not as good as other
people.
But fundamentally I've learnedover the years to recognize
actually I've gained skills andI probably have skills that
somebody who did PhD withouthaving children, I think the

(47:59):
fact that you did it whilehaving a kid jeebus, oh my God.
But oh my God.

Speaker 3 (48:03):
But I also love that you admitted it yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
Because there's going to be.
So now there's so many parents,there's so many mums that want
to go back to uni or want tostart uni, and there's so many
like mums or mums-to-be thatwill look at you now and go it's
possible, because it ispossible.
But you know, I don't't thinkit's hard sometimes to

(48:30):
appreciate yourself, isn't it?

Speaker 2 (48:32):
it is, it is and I feel like I'm.
I'm the person I am because Iwent through that struggle and I
don't want anyone to not gothrough struggle, because that's
how we grow.
But at the same time, havinggone through the struggle, I
sometimes want to be like thebig mama bang.
Go like, don't do that toyourself, don't, because you
have time, like you said at thestart.
You know we often, when wefirst have the first child, you

(48:54):
go like, oh my god, when am Igoing to get back into the
workforce?
When am I going to startearning money for myself again?
And then you.
But then as your kids grow up,you go.
You realize actually I have awhole like 20, 30 years, 40
years ahead of me to go back towork when they are a bit more
grown up.

Speaker 3 (49:10):
Yeah, Because even I say like I regret not traveling
anywhere prior to kids, becausenow obviously two kids
everything's double the cost.
I've got to have a bigger room,more flights, Like I always
regret it.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
But then I'm like, well, actually maybe I'll just
travel with them when they're abit older, yeah, or when they're
older, you can travel withoutthem.

Speaker 3 (49:29):
Yeah, knowing they're fine, it's your mind how you
think, I guess.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
Like anything is possible.
Anything is possible.
And you know the thing that youjust said about traveling alone
.
Okay, I wanted to share thisand this is like the perfect
place to share this, always like, oh, I've lost myself in
motherhood, I don't remember whoI am anymore, and I often feel
like that because I feel like mybrain is just not the same
anymore.
And then recently, a couple ofweeks ago, I went to sydney for

(49:55):
the first time ever.
I left my kids for forsomething, for a trip that's fun
.
Like I'm not going to anyhospitals, yeah, I'm just going
to sydney for myself because Iwas doing my meditation teacher
training course thing, whichI've now completed.
So I'm certifiedcongratulations, um.
So I went there and I was allalone, my kids at home, my, my
dear husband was looking afterall of them, and I was like I
have a weekend actually not aweekend two and a half days,

(50:15):
actually, no, two days, two daysby myself and I went there and
I was like I booked myself thisreally nice little place, just
one single bed, and I went toeat all this food and then in
that moment I realized it's notthat we've lost ourselves when
we become mothers, it's justthat we're buried.
We're buried under so much ofother people's shit you know

(50:40):
you're like liars on top of meyeah, and you, you think you
lost yourself, but you're notlost, you're still there.
You you know, because when Iwasn't there, my kids were not
around me.
Like, oh, I could think, eh,actually my brain still works
quite fast.
But because at home everyone istalking to you, oh my God, like
mummy, mummy, mummy, mummy,mummy, mummy.
And you go, like I can't makeup my mind, going to cook for

(51:04):
dinner, and then you think, oh,what's wrong with my brain?
There's nothing wrong with yourbrain.
You're just too many layers.
There's just too many layers.
You're just buried.
You're going, like, the morechildren you have, like the
deeper you go underground.
I'm buried.

Speaker 3 (51:16):
I'm a seed, but this is why.
So this weekend we, me and Rose, are staying at the Western in
Perth.
Just a night, mummy vacay.
It's only 24 hours.
But I'm telling you now we'regoing to get wild, we're not
going to care about being a mum,we're going to have fun, we're
going to take a bath, we'regoing to do the things.

Speaker 1 (51:36):
We're going to eat on our own without being
interrupted, oh my god.
Yes, it's a reminder, right?

Speaker 3 (51:40):
I feel like women, because I was having dinner with
a friend last week and she wassaying like as she's gotten
older she's realized she doesn'treally have like her close
friendship group.
Yeah, and you know, I wassaying how important it is
because our husbands, like, asmuch as we love them, they don't
want to hear our shit.
Like come on, they don't, theypretend, they pretend to listen
but it's not the same.

(52:01):
Yeah.
So I think it's so important,as women like to keep those.
You know, even if you've onlygot one friend or five friends,
keep those relationships withyour friends.
Go and have like littlestaycations just with your
friends, or like by yourself ohmy God, by myself.

Speaker 1 (52:17):
That is delicious.
I went down south lastWednesday on my own.

Speaker 3 (52:21):
You were dying, though, but yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:23):
But I mean I got sick when I came back but I drove
for three hours to get there.
Oh, people were like, oh, sucha long drive.
I was like it was fucking bliss.
It was three hours of lookingat the countryside and the cows.

Speaker 3 (52:37):
No kids songs on the iPad playing.

Speaker 1 (52:40):
No one talked to me, and then I got put up in this
beautiful little like not Idon't know what it was.

Speaker 3 (52:46):
It was a cottage.
It was a cottage, yeah bymyself.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
Oh my god, it was bliss.
I walked in.
I was like I can't hearanything.
Oh my God.

Speaker 2 (52:56):
You'd be like walking the door and you're like I'm
having an orgasm because I'm onmy own.

Speaker 1 (53:01):
It was so good, oh man, and it was for the soul
Like I went and had a coffee bymyself and it was like, oh, did
you feel like weird lonely byyourself?
I said no, I couldn't havethought of anything better than
silence.
A book, a glass of red wine, Ithink better than silence a book
, a glass of red wine, and thenof course you know, because I
let my guard down and I relaxed.

(53:22):
I got so sick, I got the sickestI've ever been in my life.
On the way home it was likelife was like zeros.
They were like you, fuckingidiot, you haven't rested all
this time and you decided now'sthe point I hit burnout, so yeah
, but hit, burnout.
So yeah, but yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:41):
But I think it's also important because there will be
some women out there listeningand then you'll be like, oh,
these three mothers, how canthey just leave their children?
How can?
I can never leave my children.
I tell you, if you met me 12years ago, my oldest is 12.
If you met me 12 years ago ago,I'm that woman, I'm.
I'm you right now thinking likehow can these women leave their
children?
Oh, my god, I tell you,parenthood will do this to you.

(54:02):
After you've been in it longenough, you'll be like no,
actually, I'm gonna tell everysingle new mother out there you
need to learn to step away tostep away and have space for
yourself, because it will makeyou a better, happier, healthier
woman if you are able to go.
My child is going to survive ifI'm not there for a few hours.

Speaker 3 (54:22):
Yeah, even if you took a five day break to Bali,
your kids, well, I mean, itdepends who they're with, but
they're not going to die.
Facetime them.
Yeah, you're not a bad parent.

Speaker 2 (54:33):
And also when you are away, they go.
They realize, oh my God,actually mommy's my best friend,
yes are away, they go.
They realize, oh my god,actually mommy's my best friend,
yes, because when we are thereall the time they I mean it's
it's like everybody knows this,but we don't realize it when
we're in it, like when you'reaway from them, they appreciate
you more they do and you missthem and you appreciate them and
you see them, you're like,you're actually just, you feel
like you've got more energy forthem, genuine energy you

Speaker 1 (54:56):
genuinely miss.
But even though you might nothave the family, the capacity,
you might not have it in yourcapacity, guys to you know, have
someone to look after them.
But even if you do it for eighthours, don't go to work, not
for shopping, not for shoppingas in groceries and chores, like
, spend eight hours going to geta cup of coffee Just for you,

(55:19):
just for you.
Have a date with yourself, havea date, go see a movie by
yourself.
Like, think of those things andlike, even if you just pay for
a babysitter for a couple ofhours or have a friend you know,
have like a system where, like,she looks after your kids one
day and you look after hers andjust go, yeah, and again there

(55:40):
will be listeners going like I Idon't really have anyone I can
trust and I can't do this.

Speaker 2 (55:42):
You know, I I don't know how to make friends and
things like that.
Like, seriously, women, that's askill that you have to pick up,
like for me, because I knowthat I'm such an introvert, like
I do everything for myself.
Yeah, I've sort of found waysaround that, like exercising at
home, things like that, and Ididn't have to trouble anybody.
But really I feel like you knowhow, when you're pregnant and
you go to all these classes,they're telling you these are

(56:04):
the things you need to do whenyour baby grows up.
I feel like, as your baby'sgrowing, I feel like there
should be a class that tellswomen these are the skills you
need to develop before youbecome a mother.
If are an introvert or you youdon't know how to make friends,
you got to learn because it'sgoing to make your motherhood a
lot easier, as opposed because II struggled because I I
couldn't make friends when I wasI didn't go to a mother's group

(56:25):
as well my first, because Ijust felt like I just don't fit
in, you know, so I didn't wantto do it.
but but when I did have morefriends as mothers as well, it
it just made life a lot easier,and that's when you can have
that.
Increase your capacity to dothings that are good is good for
your health, and don't feelguilty about it.
Like you said, you know, goshopping, have a coffee, watch a

(56:46):
movie I'd be like exercise doexercise because you're putting
it's like an investment, youknow, and this is body, and if
we don't put the investment into look after the body, she's
drinking, as she drinks a redbull I literally was thinking do
not judge me what I'm puttingin my body.
No, no, no I don't, I don'tjudge people, there's no idea

(57:07):
yeah, um, everybody does, that'sall right I judge myself enough
, so I think we all do, but Ilove this.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
This is where I want to go there, because you've got
the five pillars.
Yes, as a woman that can helpus with our health and I do
agree I love to exercise, like Igo for community and I also go
because it just makes me fuckingfeel better.
Even if I go and I feel likeshit before I get there, even if
I go super slow, I always feelbetter, but I feel like.

(57:34):
Our health, our exercise, ourweight they're things that we
judge ourselves a lot for, butwe often don't know where to
start.
How do we get healthy?
Tell us about the five pillars.

Speaker 2 (57:48):
Okay, so my five pillars are pretty cool.
So, as we're all women here, sowe need to understand our cycle
, or whether you have a cycle ornot, as in your menstrual cycle
you have it or not.
You need to understand whereyou're at in it, or whether you
are on contraceptive or you'rejust naturally having a period
or so.
You need to know that and thenunderstand how you're feeling

(58:08):
throughout a month, because,importantly, um, you know how,
in this day and age, we'realways like we have a 24-hour
day.
You know, we sleep, we wake up,we're just gonna, once we wake
up, we should be feeling likeamazing people and then just
getting on with our day onrepeat.
But but really, if you thinkabout it, that is designed for
the male physiology, men, they,they work hard, they have a

(58:31):
sleep, they wake up, they'refresh and then they go again
because their hormones are thatway.
We women have a menstrual cycleevery month.
We feel differently everysingle day, just like every
single pregnancy is different.
Every single day, throughoutyour cycle, you're going to feel
different, and some days youare more equipped at, like,
getting shit done.

(58:51):
Some days you're more equippedat communicating with other
people.

Speaker 3 (58:55):
Some days, uh, you just need to rest, and that's
one thing that women don't dovery well when we don't
understand my cycle at all, likeI've had the implant on pretty
much most of my life.
Most of my life I've had it, nojokes like I had a baby, took
it out, put it back in, so Idon't.
I don't get a period at all.

(59:15):
So so last week I had a soreboob right and the lady who did
the ultrasound was like whereare you in your cycle?
And I was like what the fuck?
I have no idea this is why it'simportant.

Speaker 1 (59:26):
I've understood it a lot more in the last couple of
years, but mainly because I knowhow much it affects the way
that I exercise.
So I love being strong andstrength training.
So there's different stages inyour cycle that actually how
much it affects the way that Iexercise.
So I love being strong andstrength training.
So there's different stages inyour cycle that actually so.

(59:48):
When you're on your period, youdon't necessarily feel strong.
There's not that testosteroneso and you obviously you know
you're bleeding and you're goingto feel weaker.
There's different types oftimes in your cycle that you
shouldn't necessarily be goingfor your heaviest lifts or your
best time or your PBs.

Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
So there's things in your cycle that are really
important, but I think, crystal,you need to sort that shit out.
It's so important.

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
Yeah, I mean this is my personal opinion Like going
natural is the best.
So obviously people havevarious reasons for going on the
synthetic hormone and thateveryone is allowed that choice.
But the more we can not havesynthetic hormones in our body,
the more the body can naturallyproduce what it is made to

(01:00:29):
produce and then in that way youstart to have a better
understanding of your body aswell.
And so, like you said, aboutthat cycle, within every month,
a lot of times women who liveespecially they'll be like, oh,
towards the second half of ourcycle, before our period comes,
where we have the PMS and all ofthat.
That is the time where it'sactually really tricky for the
body to recover from strenuousexercise and you also feel like

(01:00:52):
I just can't be as strong as Ilike to be.
But that window of when youfinished your period to before
you ovulate, that's like theultimate window If you're trying
to gain like more strength.
That's where you hit it hard.
I mean, obviously this is just atextbook framework.
Everybody feels differentlyevery day, but that's

(01:01:13):
essentially hormonally.
That window is where you wantto be.
You know increasing your weight, you know pushing it harder
then and you also recover betterin that period, because there's
this lady, there's anotherresearcher is very famous.
She always says women are notsmall men, so we are different.
Like we, we work differently.
Yeah, so when you're trainingyou have to train with the

(01:01:36):
thought, or your exercise youhave to do that with the thought
that my physiology is differentfrom a man.
And unfortunately, in researchand in the fitness industry out
there, a lot of people say, oh,you do certain things, you know
it's going to get you certainresults, but all those results,
all those evidence, is based onmen.
Surprise, surprise, surprise,surprise.
I mean it is a lot easier torun research on men because they

(01:01:58):
don't have the cycle where youtrack, because in research you
have to keep as many thingscontrolled as possible and when
a woman has a cycle, we can'ttake their hormonal level all
the time.
So a lot of things are done onmen Young, fit men, yet we birth
the world, we do birth theworld.

Speaker 3 (01:02:17):
Hey, what the hell are we doing?

Speaker 1 (01:02:19):
We do birth the world .
Hey, what the hell are we doing?
We do so.
Women birth all the people, andyet all the research is done on
men.
I recently did hear that onlylike I don't know when this was,
don't quote me that periodproducts so tampons, pads, all
of that have never been testedwith real blood.

(01:02:43):
What do you mean?
So all the products have alwaysbeen in labs.
In the testing, they've alwaysused a liquid.

Speaker 3 (01:02:51):
Like that blue shit they bought.

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
Yeah, so they've never actually tested period
products up until recently Onperiod With periods, what?
With real blood orconsistencies that replicate a
female lining shedding Like blowmy mind, but that's a product
that's made for a female.

Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
That is put so close to our….
Bodies Special part.

Speaker 1 (01:03:18):
So yet hasn't been tested appropriately.
It doesn't even shock me, butyeah, it's stuff that is just so
important and it actuallyenrages me, mj, like I get
internal rage about this.

Speaker 3 (01:03:31):
I'm so passionate why aren't they making little mice
wear pads?

Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
that's right.
Why aren't female?
Why aren't we testing putting alittle pad on a mouse?
Sorry, my brain.

Speaker 3 (01:03:41):
This is how my brain works, do you?

Speaker 1 (01:03:43):
see how my brain works.
I love your brain.

Speaker 3 (01:03:45):
I'm just like little mice wearing like pads on a
treadmill.

Speaker 1 (01:03:48):
I can't imagine a white mice getting a period.
That would be a bloodbath.
They would right, though.

Speaker 3 (01:03:52):
Do they Do mice get periods?
Yeah, of course.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
I actually don't have an answer for that.

Speaker 1 (01:03:57):
Okay, I'm going to Google that after because I've
got problems.
Okay, so we've got menstrualcycle.
What are the next?

Speaker 3 (01:04:03):
ones.

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
So pillar number two would be moderate exercise for
building muscle, Because we allwe might not know this, but a
lot of us when we hit the age of25, that's where
physiologically a lot of thingsgo downhill, you start to lose
your muscle mass, like about 1%every year Don't quote me, I
might be wrong From 25.
So if you don't exercise,you're somebody who always, you
know you have a desk job or youdon't like exercising, or you

(01:04:31):
haven't.

Speaker 3 (01:04:34):
I don't like to exercise.

Speaker 1 (01:04:39):
Crystal saw it eyeinging me.
I'm like oh she fucked.

Speaker 2 (01:04:43):
She's like.
I don't like her anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:04:44):
I carry my groceries To the car.

Speaker 2 (01:04:47):
I mean from the car To the kitchen.
Well, that still weights.
I mean that still resists.

Speaker 3 (01:04:50):
Yeah, and I carry 20 bags at a time, I ain't going to
do laps.

Speaker 1 (01:04:54):
She's still working the muscles.
Yeah, she's working hard Forthe money you like daily living
stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
You're still doing so you know, okay, that's not so
bad tick, but maybe you need totick some more ticks.
But anyway, coming back and so,and often it's not like because
, like in this, like I said, Ikeep going back to the fitness
industry because I have avendetta against them that's
okay.

Speaker 3 (01:05:12):
Oh no, I'm gonna lose a lot of friends um it's okay,
they're all run by men anyways,aren't they?

Speaker 2 (01:05:20):
we do love men.
It's not like.
We're not like three womensitting here hitting on men we
know just you know talking aboutthe society society, society um
, yeah, and so like we have this, this idea that you have to
like work intensely and, likeyou know, make me feel like I'm
dying to in order to be healthyand gain muscle.
But coming back to my capacitything, sometimes if a woman is
already very highly stressed inher life you know, children,

(01:05:42):
husband, work, business or lackof help in life or like having
emotional stuff going on andthen you're really feeling very
stressed, because often peopledon't see that as stress, but
that is the stress.
And then you go to the gym orlike a group fitness or CrossFit
or whatever, and then you goand do those high intensity

(01:06:06):
stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:06:06):
You're like let's pump this weight 10 000 burpees
and then after that you kind offeel like, oh man, I feel like
shit, and then go home and yellat your kids so you've increased
your stress.

Speaker 2 (01:06:09):
You have actually increased your stress because
that, while it's a physical,physiological stress, it is
still a stress and if you are awoman, that is already like
stressed, like to the limit, toyour eyeballs, and you go and
throw that into yourself, you'rejust going to burn out even
faster.
Because that was me like acouple of years ago.
I was like, oh, I've got thisnew job, I don't want to run my
business anymore.
I went and got a job so I wentto teach.
I don't run my business likethat frequently anymore.

(01:06:32):
This is that became like theside hustle.
And then I was like, yeah, Igot more free time.
Now I'm gonna go join acrossfit gym.

Speaker 1 (01:06:38):
Oh, yeah, you're gonna add the stress back in.
That makes sense, okay, becausethat's what I do.

Speaker 2 (01:06:43):
I was like no, because I was like I have more
time now.
I'm not running my business,I'm just working for someone.
I work for someone and I gohome I have more capacity.
Capacity also, I thought.
But actually the job also alsohas more stress because it's
like a you know, you'reanswering, answering to people
now and then I go and do thisCrossFit thing and then I was
like, how come I cannot recoverfrom this exercise, like how
come I feel like I'm always outof breath or like I'm more tired

(01:07:05):
than usual?
And then I go like, oh my God,mj, did you not realize this?
You see you.
Then they go like I'm actuallyputting more stress on top of my
stress and stress.
That's why, even though I'mtrying to exercise, I can't keep
up with it.
And that's the thing aboutdoing it moderately, like my

(01:07:26):
second pillar, moderate exercisefor muscle building.
If you do it moderately, youcan keep going.

Speaker 3 (01:07:32):
Okay, wait can you tell me what exercise I should
be doing, then so if you don'treally like exercise, no.
I hate it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:41):
You can find something that brings you joy,
Like do you like dancing?

Speaker 3 (01:07:45):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:07:46):
Okay.
So then you want to try andfind those sort of dance moves
or like those classes like Zumbaand things like that where
you're doing squats in yourdancing.

Speaker 3 (01:07:53):
I did find a sexy dance class.
Remember that one I sent you.
I want to do that.
It's like literally sexy.

Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
You wear like sexy clothes and yeah, see, that
would be exercise that bringsyou joy, brings you community
Correct.

Speaker 2 (01:08:10):
And it doesn't feel like exercise, yeah, but then
you feel sore the next day.
Then you know oh yeah, I didsomething, but you didn't move,
yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:08:14):
I think I would enjoy that, Like when I was at like a
CrossFit thing and they had tomake me run down the road and
back.
I fucking swore the whole time.
Yeah, it's like bloody assholerun down the road and then run
back again and I'm the last one,and then I'm like yeah, I agree
, and you know what I love thatCrystal brought this up, because
not every I love exercise.

Speaker 1 (01:08:35):
I'm a personal trainer, by trade, I suppose,
and I have exercised my wholelife.
But for some people it causesmore stress, and the only thing
I've ever said to people isexercise doesn't look the same
for everyone, so do somethingyou like and you'll keep doing
it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
Correct, because it's not that one session of
CrossFit that you did that'sgoing to change your health.
It is the thing that you doconsistently yeah, consistency
and that you like doing that youlike and that makes you happy.
I mean, get you a bit huffedand puffed.
That's what you want to aim for, but the fact that you can do
it every week, yeah, A few timesa week.

Speaker 1 (01:09:12):
I was thinking what excuse can I use now to not go
yeah and not everyone loves itLike you don't have to love it
and people shun going for a walkor what the hell is wrong with
that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:27):
That's the best exercise in the world.

Speaker 1 (01:09:28):
Like why do we have to make it so complicated?
I swear.
We look at all the fitnessgurus online and we look at
coaches and I feel like.
That's why also we were likeattracted to you.
I was so attracted to you umbecause you're more realistic.
You're not saying, okay, youhave to be fit and healthy, you
want that?

(01:09:48):
Well, fucking bitch, make ithappen.
Get rid of your wine, get ridof your butter, your lazy shit.
You're not doing anything.
You're actually making findingreally easy, tangible ways to
add these things to your lifeand not making it another stress
.

Speaker 2 (01:10:05):
Yeah, yeah, you got to enjoy it, man.

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
Yeah, we only have one life.

Speaker 2 (01:10:09):
Yeah, I love that.
Yeah, and look, if you enjoythe weightlifting, obviously
that's you, that's great, andthen keep going.
But then it's for the personout there who is like you know,
maybe you didn't have fitparents where you saw that
taught you how to exercise, orlike friends that exercise.
You just need to understandanything that you do to move
your body that gets your heartgoing, that makes you go.

Speaker 1 (01:10:32):
Start talking like that a little bit, yeah, a
little bit of puff in there, abit of in there.

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
That's going to be good for your health.

Speaker 1 (01:10:38):
Okay, so that's pillar two, Pillar two.

Speaker 2 (01:10:41):
And then pillar three is my next favorite thing,
because I'm training to become amaster chef is joyful eating,
joyful nutrition.

Speaker 1 (01:10:50):
That sounds good to me.

Speaker 2 (01:10:51):
Yeah.
So there's a lot of this all ornothing mindset in again the
health and fitness industry,where you feel like you have to
eat clean.
If you don't eat clean all thetime, then you are failing.
But it is not that way.
You got to enjoy the foodbecause that is what nourishes
you.
Food is not just fuel.
A lot of people go.

(01:11:12):
Food is fuel.
You know your calories.
You put 10 calories in, youhave to go and burn another 10
calories somewhere else.
You think that way andeverything becomes like this
mathematical thing.
But it doesn't have to be likethat.
What people need to work on,what women now need to work on,
is understanding your satietylevels, your hunger levels.
When do you not feel hungryanymore?

(01:11:34):
Not to the point of fullness,just to the point where, oh, I'm
not hungry anymore, I don'thave to eat.
But because a lot of us, likeagain, stands back a lot into
childhood where you know you'reforced to finish whatever's on
your plate.
Yeah, I think throughout anyculture, people like don't waste
food.
You're going to finish yourfood on your plate and and so
we've grown up like even thoughwe are already full your mom and
dad finish it and then overtime, I mean you think it when

(01:11:57):
you get to an adult you're like25, you've been going through
that where you just, yeah, I'mstill, I'm already full, but I
have to finish whatever's on myplate, and 25 years of not
honouring your hunger andsatiety levels does shit to you.

Speaker 3 (01:12:10):
But I think, even as a parent, like as a child, eat
whatever's on your plate, right?
Then I did it with my kids.
If they didn't eat it, I ate it.
Because I was like, oh, it'swasting, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:20):
So it spills over into you, and then that's why a
lot of moms are like oh, I justhave a baby.
I can't seem to lose thisweight.
Because you also have culturalthings and habits that you've
picked up over the lifetime, ormindsets where because my kids
don't eat my chickens.

Speaker 3 (01:12:35):
Oh, you feed it to them.

Speaker 2 (01:12:36):
I give it to my chickens.
That's a good idea People havechickens.

Speaker 3 (01:12:38):
I really want chickens.
Yeah, I'm the chicken lady.
But wait, would you eat yourchickens?

Speaker 1 (01:12:42):
She would.
I could see it in her face.

Speaker 3 (01:12:44):
Would you kill?

Speaker 1 (01:12:44):
it yourself.
Mj's got a.
I like it, she's a killer.

Speaker 3 (01:12:52):
She's killed one already.

Speaker 1 (01:12:53):
I've killed three already Kill three or four.
Oh, she did say that she wasChinese and she'd eat anything,
although, okay, I'm not somepsychopath.
I love it.
No we were the same.

Speaker 3 (01:13:07):
Oh, I couldn't, I don't think I could.
I think I would look at itseyeball and be like oh, no way,
oh my God, I just sickly, can't.

Speaker 1 (01:13:13):
My pet chicken was in the fridge.
Oh no, I'll never forget it.
My dad, I watched it.
I was like bye friend oh no,okay, so so.

Speaker 2 (01:13:24):
So this is the thing, because, because you know you
have chickens, and then they,they get broody, they want to
become moms, you put eggs underthem and then they hatch little
chicks and then eventually, notall of them are going to be
female, right, yeah, and we livein metropolitan perth, you
can't have roosters.
So the past I'll get thisfriend's mom or whoever come and
help me get rid of the chicken,or I just give it to someone
because I don't want to dealwith killing them.

(01:13:44):
And then this year we did ourbackyard, I got my chickens back
and then we had some chicks andthen out of the nine, four of
them were boys, did.

Speaker 1 (01:13:53):
Did you eat it?
Can you eat boiled chicken?

Speaker 2 (01:13:56):
You can.
Oh, okay, you can eat the wholechicken.
So then I got my friend's hubbyto come and do it, because he's
Papua New Guinean, he comes inwith his axe and he's like yeah,
let me do this for you.

Speaker 1 (01:14:06):
And then he went and I got you MJ.
Yeah, I was like what?

Speaker 2 (01:14:11):
He did the what.
And then it was.
I went like, oh my god, whatjust happened in my backyard?
But then over time I just sortof realised if I'm going to have
chickens I'm going to have tolearn how to wacha them, Because
otherwise I'm always having tocall on this friend and call on
that person or give it away.
And then I've been feeding thischicken already.

(01:14:32):
I know what goes into thischicken.
I really should learn to eat myown chicken.
So I can still remember myson's face.
I was like okay, kids, I'mgoing to go outside, we're going
to kill this chicken.
And then they're like we don'twant to be outside.
So my friend's mom taught methis trick like way back, but I
could never do it, but now I can.
So you know how we have themilk bottle thingies the milk

(01:14:53):
bottle that holds our milk.
Yeah, the milk that holds ourmilk.

Speaker 3 (01:14:55):
Yeah, our milk, the handle the handle.

Speaker 2 (01:14:58):
So she taught me this thing you cut off where the lid
is, you cut that bit off, andthen you cut off the base, yes,
and you put that on thechicken's neck.
So you kind of it kind ofbecomes I don't know why it's
like a chicken.
It traps the chicken.
It traps the chicken.
Is it a three litre milk?
The two-liter one?
You kind of have to cut theside so that the chicken will
fit into it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:18):
I never thought this podcast was going to go here,
but we're going here.
Teach me more.

Speaker 3 (01:15:22):
I can't kill a chicken.

Speaker 1 (01:15:23):
I will never kill it, but I like to know why we're
using a milk bottle.

Speaker 2 (01:15:25):
Okay, so you kind of make that into the funnel, so
the head goes through there.
Oh, no, I can't.
I feel like my reputation's atstake, because once it's in
there, this is why she's got aPhD, guys.
She knows how to kill a chicken.
I'm the PhD lady that likes thewoo and likes to kill her own

(01:15:47):
chickens.
Okay, wait, I don't actuallylike to kill the chickens.
I do feel.
Every time before you feel sad,I do feel sad, and every time
before I do it I always thankthem for.
I always thank them for cominginto our world and eventually
feeding my family.

Speaker 3 (01:16:06):
I mean, that's kind of it's like coming from Avatar.

Speaker 1 (01:16:10):
Like Avatar, we thank Mother Earth and we thank you
for being a chicken.
Thanks for feeding me.

Speaker 2 (01:16:15):
I feel like I've just destroyed my reputation.

Speaker 1 (01:16:18):
Okay.
Look, we all eat well no, I'mnot going to say we all eat meat
.

Speaker 3 (01:16:22):
But I also don't put two and two together right?
So if I'm eating a chicken, I'mnot thinking about the chicken
yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16:29):
But I like chicken, so when it's in the milk bottle.

Speaker 1 (01:16:31):
Okay, poke the head through.

Speaker 2 (01:16:33):
Okay, the head's through, because, like you, I
can't look at the face, but itholds them in place.
It holds them in place Withouttheir wings.
Yeah, so it doesn't flap at youwhen you are doing the deed.
When you're so, then I have atowel that goes over their head
and I kind of stretch their neck.

Speaker 3 (01:16:49):
Oh, so you no, no no, don't choke them.

Speaker 1 (01:16:53):
She's got a.
She's got a freaking, then shegets her machete.
Oh wait, she's got a freaking,then she gets her machete out.

Speaker 2 (01:16:57):
Oh wait, you cut the head.
I don't cut the head.
Okay, so there's a difference.
If you chop the head off.
They go into this, yeah, andthen the meat becomes tougher.
But if you I'm going to soundlike a psychopath If you slit
their throats, oh my God.

Speaker 3 (01:17:11):
We're talking.
I thought you were going tostrangle her.

Speaker 2 (01:17:14):
I can't do that.
I just feel like, no, that'sjust wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:17:18):
Listen, she hasn't killed a lot, she's only killed
three.

Speaker 2 (01:17:20):
Only three, and every time I feel really bad.
Okay, so then you kind of haveto bring the knife under the
feather, because the feathersare actually very tough.
They're like our nails, youknow.
So if you try and just cutthrough the feather, nothing's
going to work.
So you have to go under thefeather and try and get to the
skin and then be quick, and Idid it.
I mean, it's actuallysurprising.

(01:17:40):
I don't know how psychopaths doit, but it's actually
surprising.
Really hard to cut into skinand flesh, and sometimes I feel
bad because I have to like… yeah, because then you've got to
like, pull out the feathers andstuff.
Yeah, that part is not so bad,because I think the hardest bit
is like taking the life, takingthe life force.

Speaker 1 (01:17:56):
But you did it.
I think it is important, like Ithink sometimes, the fact that
you need to know how it's done.

Speaker 2 (01:18:01):
Yeah, and you do it humanely.
It's not like I'm down there,I'm going to kill you.
I'm not doing it.
Thank you for being my food,because the thing is, when you
do drain their blood let's putit that way, I don't want to use
that word again when you draintheir blood, they kind of slowly
go to sleep, you see, so theyare calmer when they go.

Speaker 3 (01:18:17):
Yeah, so then they're… my mum had a goat and,
yeah, somebody took it and theyate it for dinner.
Yep, yep.

Speaker 1 (01:18:27):
Craig's done a lamb before, but he decided to show
me a photo.
He's like there's our lamb, yumyum yum.
And I was like huh.

Speaker 2 (01:18:35):
Yeah.
But yeah, it is quite a processand I was like, but yeah, it is
quite a process, it is aprocess.

Speaker 1 (01:18:39):
But yeah, it's worth knowing sometimes where your
food comes from, even thoughit's hard.

Speaker 3 (01:18:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:44):
I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:18:44):
I cried when my dad went fishing and he was like
putting the fish in the bucket.

Speaker 2 (01:18:48):
I was like, let him go, let him be free.
Are you judging me because Ikill my lunch?

Speaker 1 (01:18:53):
No, actually, but it was a hilarious story, so thank
you for that.
But you know where this allcame from.
Is that giving your scraps tothe chicken?

Speaker 3 (01:19:01):
Oh, that's where it started, See, I was like how the
hell did we get here?
How did we?

Speaker 1 (01:19:05):
get there.
This is what we do all the time, and this is also about like,
yeah, just eating until we'refull.
This was the third pillar.
Is joyful eating and joyfulnutrition Correct that we can
enjoy our food?

Speaker 3 (01:19:18):
nutrition that we can enjoy our food.

Speaker 1 (01:19:19):
I'm glad you remember where we started, because we
went rogue.
I was like, why are we killingchickens?
And I had to remember.
So they're joyful food andjoyful eating, which I love
because it's a better approachthan sometimes too far one way
or the other, because I feellike there's this clean eating.
Don't eat any packaged food,don't have anything that comes
out of a container, don't haveany cereal, and I feel like it
almost takes away everythingfrom us.

(01:19:41):
It's like hold on, you want usto be less stressed, you want us
to have more time, you want usto be happy, but then don't give
your kids any processed foods.
Don't do this, don't do that,don't have that.
Only clean eat.
And now you're adding morestress in again.

Speaker 2 (01:19:55):
There's more things to do.
To prepare stuff from scratch,yes, and people don't realize it
takes a lot of effort.

Speaker 1 (01:20:00):
Are we not allowed to give ourselves a little bit of
a break?
Yes, but we still can eat well.

Speaker 2 (01:20:05):
Yeah, you can.
If you eat 80%, just go 80%.
20% of the time you can eatwhatever you want.

Speaker 1 (01:20:10):
Oh, my God, I have to tell you about this person.
Then Love that I can't rememberwho they are.
But on Instagram there is thisguy and I love it.
His whole slogan he's done agreat job, marketing himself is
be consistently average.
Oh, love it.
He's like I don't want you tobe perfect every day, I don't

(01:20:31):
want you to do anything but beconsistently average.
He goes, want to exercise threetimes a week, just like an
average person.
Perfect, because goes want toexercise three times a week,
just like an average person.
Perfect, because I want you tobe consistently average.
Want to eat, like you know.
Every day you eat really well,but once a week you go out and
get some takeaway and you mightget yourself, like you know, a
couple of drinks and you love tohave a drink.

(01:20:52):
Great, but be consistentlyaverage with it.
He goes you don't have to be.
It's the all or nothingmentality that makes us fail.
And then once we fail, thenwe're like fuck this, I'm going
to eat what I fucking want, butI love it's stuck with me lately
.
I just really like thatmentality of being consistently
average.

Speaker 2 (01:21:12):
That's amazing.
I love that.

Speaker 1 (01:21:14):
I just wanted to share it with you.

Speaker 2 (01:21:15):
I'm going to pick that up and tell it to all my
people.

Speaker 1 (01:21:18):
Yeah, let's just be average.
There's nothing wrong withbeing average, there's nothing
wrong with being average.

Speaker 2 (01:21:22):
Oh my God, why do we have this idea that all of us
have to be some big shot,society Be number one Society.

Speaker 3 (01:21:29):
We are special.

Speaker 2 (01:21:30):
We're all special In our own way.

Speaker 3 (01:21:39):
But it's okay to be average too.
Listen, I thought that you weretested on mice, so kind of
special.

Speaker 2 (01:21:41):
She is very special.

Speaker 1 (01:21:43):
Okay, so that was pillar three.

Speaker 3 (01:21:45):
And okay, let's give us four and five and then we'll
apologise to the people that arewaiting outside, because we
know they're from the Gulf.

Speaker 1 (01:21:50):
They're the Gulf guys .

Speaker 3 (01:21:51):
Are they?
I'm shy as in.

Speaker 2 (01:21:53):
Love you guys.
So number four is about stressand nervous system management.
So for a long time I I didn'tknow why I was always so high
strung and then I realized I'mconstantly in the uh,
sympathetic nervous state.
I'm always like on the gobecause I'm always thinking I'm
gonna die or like I have astress that's coming towards me
even though there's no stress,but I don't know how to like let
loose.
So I saw a very amazingchiropractor, uh, for a bit, and

(01:22:17):
she helped me and my daughterwith our vagus nerve and how we
can sort of reset everything.
Because I grew up in thathigh-strung family fear and
anger and angry state, right.
So for me the norm, my set point, was always heightened and I
didn't know that until I learnedabout her, and so she helped me
sort of bring that back downwhere I could go.
Oh, I can bring my nervoussystem down.

(01:22:43):
This is this is where youshould be when you're relaxed.
So learning where your nervoussystem is at is very important,
where either you're alwaysswitched on and in that stress
state or not, and how you canwork, go through, seek help, if
you need like, fromprofessionals to help you reset
your nervous system so that youyou can tell the difference
between rest and when you needto go, go, go.

Speaker 1 (01:22:59):
Yeah, love that.

Speaker 2 (01:23:00):
So that's pillar number four, and then that one
ties in very nicely with pillarnumber five, which is to rest
and recover.
A lot of people, especiallywomen, in this day and age, we
always go, go, go.
We don't know how to rest andin fact we feel guilty if we
take rest because we go.
Oh my God, I'm doing nothing.

Speaker 3 (01:23:18):
That's her.
If she's watching TV, she needsto be folding laundry at the
exact same time I need to beproductive at all times because
I feel lazy.

Speaker 2 (01:23:22):
I understand.

Speaker 1 (01:23:23):
And lazy is the worst fucking thing that could ever
happen to you, apparentlybecause I was brought up like
that.

Speaker 3 (01:23:27):
Where I'm like, no thanks, I'm being a blob, thank
you, and I love that.
I need to take that.

Speaker 1 (01:23:31):
Yeah, message, and honestly we have actually loved
having you here today.
You've taught us a lot.
We've learned about how to killa chicken.
We've learned about that youcan have a phd and still know
nothing about life in the worldand that you've been so honest
about that um, that there's fivepillars of health, are so

(01:23:51):
realistic.
If you want to know more aboutdr mj um the things she does,
she shares really openly on herown socials.
She coaches women.
Where can we find you?

Speaker 2 (01:24:03):
You can find me on Instagram or Facebook.
If you just Google Dr, mj, phdand you will find me.

Speaker 1 (01:24:13):
Okay, we will pop all of Dr MJ's details in the show
notes, all the ways that you cancontact her.
Find her online, but we haveabsolutely loved having you on
today.
Thank you for taking the time.
Absolutely loved it and it'sbeen so much fun and we've had
so many laughs.

Speaker 2 (01:24:28):
Oh my gosh, it's been so good.

Speaker 1 (01:24:29):
I love the mice Like I'm never going to get over the
mice being pregnant on thetreadmill.

Speaker 3 (01:24:32):
I'm never going to get over it.

Speaker 1 (01:24:33):
And in the.

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