The Dance of Life, Love, and Self-Discovery with Ashleigh King

Let's Chat! send us a message, question or a confession to unpack!

In  this episode we speak with the inspiring Ashleigh King, the official choreographer for the Jungle Body. They open up about life, their resilience required to relearn to walk and dance again after paralysis from transverse myelitis and diagnosis of MS, the evolution of their non-binary identity, motherhood, the dynamics of family life and finding true love with wife Rosie. Get ready for a deep dive into Ash's life as they share how love triumphed over adversity and how cutting their hair became a defining moment of self-expression, challenging societal norms and fostering personal liberation.

Have you ever considered the profound impact a haircut can have on your identity? Or how your children might teach you a thing or two about acceptance? We tackle these questions head-on, discussing the nuances of personal pronouns, child curiosity, and the generational differences in understanding gender. Through laughter and earnest reflection, Ash takes us through their journey of self-discovery in their sexuality and gender - identifying as non-binary and the importance of creating a safe space for candid conversations about sexuality, highlighting how these dialogues can educate, liberate and strengthen not only the individual but also the family unit.

We admire Ash's determination, positive attitude, insight, and endurance of love amidst life's transformations. Tune in for an episode that will not only move and uplift you but also remind you of how life-changing and powerful it can be to embrace our true selves.

Follow Ash here on Instagram @thehandsomemum

Find the Girl Meet Girl Facebook group here - GIRL MEET GIRL

Connect with Rose and Chrystal on Instagram for more stories and fun mini-weekly catch-ups.
DM the girls, get involved with the conversations, and feel free to ask questions!
@baringitall_thepodcast
Rose Oates
@roseoates_
Chrystal Russell
@chrystalrussell_

And don’t forget to take care of yourself and each other -

With Love Rose & Chrystal x

Episode Transcript

Rose (00:05):
Welcome to Bearing it All with Rose and Crystal.

Chrystal (00:08):
Where the conversations get real emotions
run raw and nothing is filtered.

Rose (00:13):
Buckle up because we're Bearing it All deep, diving into
everything from motherhood tomental health and everything in
between.
We want to get to know you,each other and our bodies, and
things are going to get spicy.
We're spicy.

Chrystal (00:26):
Are you ready for it?

Rose (00:27):
Let's do it.
Today.
We are pumped to have our nextguest, the inspiring, talented
and multi-faceted human, ashleyKing.
Ash is the officialchoreographer for the Jungle
Body, an amazing dancer withplenty of moves that we could
definitely take some tips from.
Just the fact that they aredancing today is amazing, as in
2021, ash's whole life changed.

(00:50):
They had to learn to walk again, let alone dance, after an
emergency hospital visit turnedto receiving a diagnosis of
transverse myelitis and MS.
Ash is one determined andresilient person.
From navigating their sexualityand gender Ash identifies as
non-binary, a mum toseven-year-old Kenzie and one

(01:11):
pampered pooch, harry To findinglove, recently marrying Rosie
and having to regain their senseof self independence and coping
with a disability.
It's an inspiration to watchtheir journey and to know them.
Thanks so much for being heretoday, ash.
Thanks for having me.
I'm excited.

Chrystal (01:30):
So there is like a million and one questions we
could sit and ask you today.
Your story is you've just had awild ride over the last kind of
few years and there's so manydifferent things that we could
delve into.
But we kind of want to start atthe beginning, like tell us a
bit about your life, like fromthe beginning, a bit like we
want to know obviously you weremarried to a man, how long ago

(01:54):
was that?

Ashleigh King (01:55):
uh, so Rosie and I've been together for almost
six years so just over six yearsago.
Yeah, okay awesome.

Chrystal (02:01):
so tell us a little bit about that.
And obviously we've had a fewpeople make comments at you that
have not been very nice, andI'd love for you to delve into
that a bit more and just kind ofexplain how things went down
the road of like marriage aftermarriage and then how you met
Rosie.

Ashleigh King (02:17):
Yeah.
So I met my ex-husband veryyoung and there was a bit of an
age gap and all I ever wanted mywhole life was to get married,
have kids, that kind of vibe.
And when I was younger so inthe nineties and the two
thousands you know I knew thatthere was such a thing as being
gay.
My mum played softball, so likefull of gays.

(02:41):
One of her best friends yearsago was lesbian, so I knew it
was a thing, but it wasn't ascommon for them.
Well, they couldn't get marriedat that time and it wasn't as
common for them to have kids.
And if it was, it was usuallyquite a hard, lengthy process.
So I kind of I've alwaysidentified as bisexual when I
had my space it said bisexualand I would have only been 12,
13, 14.

(03:01):
So I know, okay, I've alwaysknown that I enjoy looking at
women.
I you know, at the time it was,and men too.
But looking back I think it waskind of a safe option because I
was like no, all else fails, Iwant to get married, I want to
have kids.
So then I met, yeah, myex-husband when I was just out

(03:22):
of school and we were togetherand then we were engaged and
that was it.
We got married, had my daughter, and then I kind of I had
followed Rosie for quite a whileonline.
We'd met at a Jungle Body eventand then we kind of just
fangirled over each other onInstagram.
And then we'd started talkingand it was this weird.

(03:43):
I don't even know how toexplain it.
I don't want to be like love atfirst sight, but it was this
weird instant connection.

Rose (03:49):
I was going to ask that.
I was like was it a?

Ashleigh King (03:51):
feeling.
It was a feeling yeah, and itwasn't like a feeling of like,
oh, I just want to be with you.
It was just like whoa.
The way you make me feel issomething I've never felt before
you make me feel is somethingI've never felt before.
You know, I love and I.
We had the conversation and shewas in a relationship and she
was like, oh, you know, but Ihave a boyfriend.
And I said, look, I love myhusband, got you know my child,
that's it.

(04:11):
But when I walked away fromthat I was like left with this
feeling of, oh, hang on, whydon't I feel like that?
Yeah, so I did.
I had to do a bit of soulsearching and I realised, like,
maybe you are gay, maybe you'vejust kind of not settled,
because he's an amazing man.
We're still very good friendsto this day.

(04:31):
He's the best dad I could haveever had chosen for my child.
Yeah, he's a very we alwaysjoke.
He's a very good ex-husband.
Yeah, and I say to people likepick your husband based on going
through a custody battle withthem, because if they're an
awful person and if you knowthat they're a spiteful person
or that they're going to be likethat, there is a there's always
a chance, right.

(04:52):
Shit goes wrong A lot ofmarriage breakups.

Chrystal (04:54):
They end in a shit show, don't they?

Ashleigh King (04:56):
Absolute shit show.
And when kids are involved,you're going to be tied to this
person for life, whether you arewith them or you're not with
them.
So I picked a very good dad andI picked a very good ex-husband
Um, and he was very supportive.

Rose (05:08):
Yeah, I was going to say, was there a level of
understanding as well?
With him Because he alreadyknew you were bisexual when he
met you.
So when you had thoseconversations, I mean obviously
there's going to be a level ofhurt, Absolutely, but was there
also?
And I was devastated becausethere was nothing fundamentally
wrong with my marriage.

Ashleigh King (05:25):
Like for me it was going to be forever, Like
there was nothing wrong.
Yeah.
Yeah, we were, you know, almost10 years into our relationship.
We had our daughter, we wereplanning on having more.
Like that was how it was, andso, of course, there was hurt,
and a lot of.
I think the hurt, especiallywith my family and friends,
didn't come from like I nevergot any backlash for being with

(05:47):
a woman.
It was more that they werehurting because he was a part of
my life since I was a teenager.

Chrystal (05:52):
So they were kind of mourning that relationship.

Ashleigh King (05:54):
Yeah, and I think once they saw that him and I
are okay, we're not at eachother, it's not affecting Kenzie
, yeah, but they were like, okay, this is fine, you know, he's
still come to family dinners Iwould, I'm still very, you know,
with his family.
So yeah, but he, he definitelywas understanding I think more
so understanding because it wasa woman, you know he realised

(06:15):
like this isn't something he cangive me, this is this isn't a
direct competitor to him.
It's not something that's justgoing to be he can fix or he can
change or he can work on.
This is like.
This is who I am.

Rose (06:25):
This is yeah this is a feeling you can't change within
yourself.

Ashleigh King (06:29):
So it hurt, but it was accepting in that sense,
which is actually quitebeautiful in that, yeah in that
way and I had really kind ofstifled a lot of who I was, not
so much at the beginning of ourrelationship because I was who I
was, but definitely once I gotengaged, once I got married,
especially once I'd become a mum, I kind of was like oh, I don't

(06:51):
want to embarrass him or Idon't want to embarrass her.
I need to just like you know,be dressed as a woman.
I remember having aconversation about a jungle body
boy and I was like I'm gonnawear a tux.
And he was like that, I'm notgoing with you.

Rose (07:02):
And I was like oh, I did want to ask about this.

Ashleigh King (07:05):
Yeah, I was really like oh shit, because
you're very feminine lookingprior to like.

Rose (07:12):
You know you're beautiful, I mean, you're just blessed
with luscious hair, yeah.
So I think I've been to a.
I mean I went to a jungle bodyclass and first saw you when I
didn't know who you were.
You wouldn't have known me fora bar of smoke, I couldn't dance
, I was hiding in the back andyou had your hair in this lush,
just like piled on the top ofyour head and you let it out at

(07:33):
the end of the class and it wasjust a mane, yeah, and you were
very feminine looking, yeah, andI suppose, did you feel that
you had to sort of have that?
Yeah, you had to sort of havethat, you had to sort of portray
, because I'm a mother and awife, I have to sort of look
like this the pressure.

Ashleigh King (07:49):
I'm a dancer and so I've done calisthenics my
whole life and so, being in thatenvironment also, I think I was
like, well, it's a women's onlysport.
I can't just, you know, rock upas a man or as a masculine,
like I have to be, you know, upas Matt or as a in a masculine,
like I have to be, you know, alittle bit feminine.
I'm getting on stage andsequins and glitter and lace and

(08:10):
face full of makeup yeah, so itwas kind of like this weird,
like dynamic inside of me and Idid really shut it down.
I have wanted to have short hairsince I can remember and Can I
tell you something though?
What.

Chrystal (08:24):
That first photo, when you cut your hair, I did not
stop staring at it.
I was like ash yeah, oh my God.

Ashleigh King (08:33):
It was so liberating.

Chrystal (08:34):
Yeah, you were short hair.
I think I messaged you goinglike this is the best version of
you Like.

Rose (08:39):
It made sense, it was very .
I mean, I'm going to say it washot.
I was like sorry, Rosie, notsorry, but it was, you just
looked free yeah.
Well.

Ashleigh King (08:51):
Rosie really struggled with it at the
beginning because she loved mylong hair and it also comes from
like my whole life.
I was like you can't cut yourhair, you can't cut your hair,
I'd kill for hair like you, likeyou've been blessed with it,
you got to keep it, and so Iliterally kept my hair long.
I suffered with headachesbecause it was so thick.
It was always matted andknotted because I just I always
used to say I was, I was aterrible girl.

(09:12):
It was so bad, like I justdidn't know how to be a girl and
all my friends would be likeyou know, doing hair?
I don't even know.
I don't even know what thethings are look if anyone hasn't
seen Ash's hair before, youneed to go and have a look.

Chrystal (09:26):
She's actually on one of the boxes at the salon.
Mermaid hair.

Rose (09:29):
Yeah, mermaid hair.
She modelled for mermaid hairand her hair is just.

Ashleigh King (09:33):
There's actually a really funny photo.
Rosie put it up for my birthday.
It's about three or four photosin and I did a photo shoot, the
first photo shoot for mermaidhair.
The photo shoot for mermaidhair, the long waves was
ridiculously long at that pointand I had to.
I was actually booked in to cutit a month before and my boss
she's also my best friend ownsmermaid hair and she was like I
will pay you not to cut it.

(09:53):
She's like I need you for theshoot and then you can cut it.
And I was like, okay, and thenI did one recently for them as
well with my short hair and theyput it up and people were like,
oh, it's like Barbie and Ken.
And then when they realizedit's the same person, they were
like, oh, it's like Barbie andKen and then when they realised
it's the same person, they werelike what the heck yeah?

Rose (10:07):
Barbie can be whatever she wants to be.
Yeah, no, it was wild and itwas beautiful, but I get the
whole cutting the hair thing.
I feel I cut my hair off.
I cut my hair off after I hadmy last two, like quite short.
I've always had long hair, likeI have now, and it felt like
free.
I knew there was a longing todo it, for no other reason that
it just felt like a weight and apart of me that was connected.

(10:31):
I cut it right off, hated it.
I love having long hair.
See, I feel myself when I havelong hair.

Ashleigh King (10:38):
Whereas I cut mine and I was like this is me,
this is who I am, like I feelmore myself than I ever have.
We actually had thisconversation with our
hairdresser this is me, this iswho.

Rose (10:45):
I am Like I feel more myself than I ever have.

Ashleigh King (10:46):
Yeah, but we actually had this conversation
with our hairdresser.
It just got done two days agoand Rosie was getting a chop and
it was quite emotional and shewas like I don't know why I'm so
and we were like your hairholds so much of your trauma and
you know that hair has beenwith her in the last 12 months
through some pretty awful youknow emotional roller coaster.

(11:07):
So it's not just cutting offyour hair, it's cutting off all
those memories and startingafresh.
And it does.
And that's what it felt likefor me when I cut it.
I was like this feels like I'velet go of all the pretending of
who I'm trying to be and I'mlike I can just be me and I love
it.

Rose (11:22):
Yeah, I feel that to my soul when it comes to hair and I
think a lot of people willrelate with hair because we
always cut our hair, like afterwe have a baby, or like a big
life event.
And for me, those last two,like after having the two last
ones that's how I felt.
I was like it needs I don'tknow why, but it needs to all go
as much as possible and it feltgood.

Ashleigh King (11:44):
I think a lot of people hide behind their hair as
well.
Yes, you see people that's me.
We've been watching maps andthere's a girl in there with
really long hair and you cantell that there's a lot of like
she just wants to be invisibleand it's like her hair's giving
her that safety blanket.

Rose (11:59):
Yep and yours was actually suffocating you.

Ashleigh King (12:03):
Yeah, I think mine was like my tie to being
feminine.
Yep, it was like my.
Oh, you've got long hair.
If you put your long hair down,you're doing okay.
You're looking like a girl.
Like whereas inside I was likeI feel ridiculous.
But, it's like no, you'reblending in as long as you've
got your long hair.
So cutting it for me was likeyou're not hiding anymore.
You're not hiding anymore thisis who you are like.

Chrystal (12:27):
Your hair is finally catching up to, yeah, the
insides.
I'll never forget.
I went to an event, um, I thinkit was for Glamour Nail Bar,
and you came wearing this suit,like these amazing shoes I'll
never forget, and your hair andI was like I want to go and buy
a suit and I don't mind wearinga suit.
Actually, I feel like suits areso powerful so powerful, but I

(12:49):
remember seeing you and beinglike man.
Yeah, like that look is oh.

Ashleigh King (12:54):
I remember the first the jungle body ball.
So, the jungle body ball afterI, the year before, yeah, my
ex-husband was like, well, I'mnot going.
And I was like, oh shit, okay,better wear a dress.
And um, I look back at thosephotos of me in that dress and
I'm like, oh shit, okay, betterwear a dress.
And um, I look back at thosephotos of me in that dress and
I'm like, oh you like and youprobably felt so.

Chrystal (13:09):
I was so uncomfortable you'd be able to see it you can
.

Ashleigh King (13:11):
You can see it in every photo.
And then the year after, when Iwas with Rosie and I wore my
suit and I was like I can dance,I can move, I can breathe, I
don't have to wear heels.
I'm a tall person, I hatedwearing heels because I was like
I'm already tall, I don't needto be taller.

Chrystal (13:25):
She can do the wap dance.

Rose (13:26):
Yeah, do the limbo yeah like, feel free, feel yourself,
feel yourself um.
That brings me to the sexualidentity.
So when you met Rosie initially, yeah, how did you identify?
And how did Rosie identify?

Ashleigh King (13:42):
uh probably both bisexual, yeah, by in
heterosexual relationships, okay, um, but she was the same as me
.
We'd both kind of like exploredwith women over the years.
We both had that, but we'dnever been in a relationship
with a woman.
Okay, and probably both, partlybecause, like she grew up in a
very, very Catholic school,didn't really know that you

(14:05):
could even be with girls, andthen I knew you could.
But again it was that like Iwant a baby, I want to get
married, so this is how I haveto be, this is the path.

Chrystal (14:16):
Yeah, okay.
So then, at what point?
Because obviously, when youfirst started your relationship
with Rosie, your pronoun was she.
At what point did you know thatyou wanted to identify as

(14:37):
non-binary?
Do you know, do?

Ashleigh King (14:38):
you know what, when I met Rosie, I didn't even
know what non-binary was.
I don't think many people did.
I don't think it.

Speaker 4 (14:43):
It wasn't as much a thing.
I'm not saying, it's not athing.

Ashleigh King (14:45):
It's always been a thing, but we just have a name
for it now.
And that's like because so manyof older generations are like
oh, you're just making up namesfor things.
I'm like we have diseases thatwe have names for now that we
didn't have 50 years ago.

Chrystal (14:56):
Thank you.

Ashleigh King (14:56):
And you're happy to recognise that better, right.

Chrystal (15:05):
So I think that's why this topic is like really
important for Rose and I tobring up, because there is so
many questions around it andthere are a lot of like hate
comments aimed at it, which Ithink it's just educating people
now, um people are afraid ofwhat they don't know what they
don't understand and they.

Ashleigh King (15:18):
We are a very um egocentric society in that we
relate.
I was reading an article from apsychologist recently.
We relate everything to us andwe want everything to apply to
us.
So when we this is why peoplehave such strong opinions online
and you're like this actuallyhas nothing to do with you, why
are you making this about you?
But it's because they try tofit it to them and if they can't

(15:40):
relate, they're uncomfortable.
So for a lot of people hearinglike or educating kids about you
know queer identity or peopleare like oh, it's going to make
them gay.
You're never going to makesomeone gay.
Nobody wants that drama.

Chrystal (15:56):
I literally had this conversation last week with a
family member.
They were like I don't know ifI'm comfortable with kids being
taught in school and I said Ifeel like that is the most
important thing that they'retaught in school.
So then when they're growing up, they are educated on different
.
You know how people feel yeah,identified.

Ashleigh King (16:14):
No one's going to actively seek out being a
minority right yeah because thereality is, life is harder when
you're a minority, so you're notgoing to like, I'm going to
pretend to be this.
It doesn't work like that andit's like you.

Rose (16:26):
You wanted to have a family and you didn't think that
was almost a choice.
It was almost like I have tochoose between my sexuality or a
family.
I think kids know A lot of kids, a lot of people we've met as
well.
Friends and stuff have gone.

Ashleigh King (16:47):
I've just known I've never been attracted to men
, ever, ever.
You don't just make that up,you're not making it.
What you're doing is you'reallowing them to be themselves,
be themselves and feel like theyare themselves and it's.
it's the same.
It's the same as um genderexpression, in that I'm not like
trying to, you know, turn kidsin the playground into
non-binary or trans, but forthat little girl in the

(17:07):
playground that just wants to goplay football with the boys,
wants to wear boys' clothes,doesn't feel like a girl for her
to be like, huh I'm, because,because that was me I was like I
don't feel like a girl, I don'tfeel like my friends would talk
and I'd be like what the actuallike?
Are we on a different planet?
yeah, and I still get that in ingroups of women.
I'm like, oh, I am not a girlbecause I my brain does not

(17:29):
think like that so for me if Ihad of.
And one of the first personpeople I saw was an online um,
someone on social media, andthey're like I'm non-binary,
this is what it means, and I waslike, oh, I need to do some
investigation that's me, yeah,I'm not a girl, but I'm not a
boy, like I'm not trans, becauseI knew what trans was and I was

(17:50):
like I kind of had thosethoughts like maybe I'm in the
wrong body, maybe I am a boy,yeah, and I really did go hard
that way for a while and kind ofspiraled in like okay, let's
think about this, let's thinkabout what that would mean for
me, my family.
But then when I sat and lookedat it I was like no, I'm neither
.
I'm actually neither I'm not agirl.

(18:11):
It's very obvious that I'm nota girl inside my brain.
But I also don't want to be aboy.
I don't.
I don't not that there'sanything wrong with that, I just
it's.

Chrystal (18:19):
It's not me and I don't know how you feel, and I
think that's the important part.
Where that's okay.

Ashleigh King (18:22):
Yeah, I am somewhere in between and that
that's okay and it's not.
Giving it a label doesn'tautomatically be like okay, I'm
fixed yeah fixed and I just it'slike I belong I am.
This is who I am, and I thinkthat's the important part of
there's so many different ones,and that's what the older
generation struggle.
They're like you can't there'sso many different things.

(18:42):
I think the most importantthing here is just to listen to
what people are saying they feeland honoring that.
So if this person's saying Iidentify as this, this is who I
feel I am, okay, that's who youare.
Yeah, we don't have a right totell people who they are or how
they feel Exactly.

Rose (18:59):
It is harder, I think, for the older generation and even
we're older millennials I amanyway.
Yeah, me and Crystal are onthat older side of millennials.
We were not.
There was not as much socialmedia, there was not as much
talk about it.
Like you were saying, in the90s, you knew there were gay
people.
They couldn't get married.
There were so many.

(19:21):
It was almost like we just saw apride parade once a year and
that was sort of it.
It was like they existed but itwasn't out and proud as much as
I feel I love seeing now, Ilove seeing it, but it so it is
confusing and that's why wereally did want to talk about it
as well.
Like there's confusion around,I think people do want to accept
it as well or make sure thatthey're not stuffing up.

(19:42):
And we were talking about thisbefore.
Like I misgendered someone andmy kids went oh, mum, they're
not a she, there are they, them.
And just, it was so normal forthem it was, so it didn't seem
like a big deal.
They were just like, oh, youstuffed up.
But they are growingdifferently because they're
exposed to it Absolutely,because they're being taught the

(20:04):
right way to, and it's almostso refreshing.
Yeah, but it's also nice thatwe now need to be educated in
the same ways.
There's no.
How am I trying to say thisLike it's okay?

Ashleigh King (20:16):
to go back.
There's no like crash course inhow yeah Like they've already
given the crash.
They've already had the course.
Yeah they've grown up with itand we are a more connected
society.
We are seeing everything.
And for the people that arelike, oh, we didn't have this in
my day yeah, you did, it justwasn't shared because you didn't
have social media, you didn'thave you had, like your nightly
news bulletin, that it justwasn't the whole coming out is

(20:39):
just a bit barbaric.
And I was talking with a friendrecently about in AFL how
there's no openly gay AFLplayers in playing in the big
league, and there was in rugbyleague and he was kind of made
the example and the spokesperson, and that's such a big weight
to carry because, again, noteveryone feels the same.
Just because we're gay, wedon't automatically become

(21:01):
robots and we all think the sameand have the same feelings.
So, we still need to do betterin that.
In protecting his just whoever,the first one is to come out
just being like cool, welcome,that's it.
We don't need to beinterviewing him every night of
the week, we don't need to beasking him if there's more in
the league, just let it go,because then you look at the
women's league and 80% of themare gay and it's not a thing,

(21:21):
it's just.

Chrystal (21:22):
They don't make a big deal over it.
No, it's beautiful though.

Rose (21:24):
That's a beautiful thing.

Ashleigh King (21:25):
Yeah, that they can, but I also think as a
community, I have a verydifferent outlook on education.
I guess I think I've got a lotof friends who are very angry,
and rightly so.
They've been treated verypoorly or they've been
discriminated against.
But I think we're not going toeducate if we don't do it with

(21:46):
love.
I think any minority group,especially one that's so charged
, it's very easy to just be likeyou need to learn, yeah, you
need to, you know it's up toWell, yeah, but don't you want
to tell them your side, don'tyou want to have them empathize
with you and your story?
So it's like when people Imisgender people too like we're

(22:06):
not immune to it.
We just naturally get it right,but it's about acknowledging it.
So if you do misgender someone,just being like, oh sorry, I'm
moving on, I'm moving on, don'tmake a big deal out, explain
themselves, don't make them feelweird.
I think the only time I've evergot a bit annoyed is when I
know someone's doing it onpurpose or they're just being a
bit of a dick around it.

Chrystal (22:28):
What?
Like you're in a conversationand they're purposely saying she
or her you can tell, yeah, youcan tell.
Or they'll say like.

Rose (22:35):
I don't believe in that, and you're like well, you don't
have to.
Okay, it's not Santa Claus,like I you believe in.
I'm a human, I am who I amtelling you.

Ashleigh King (22:47):
This is how I feel I'm actually saying.
I'm actually right here.
So, like whatever, um and thesame as, like the older
generation, my family, I, myphotographer oh sorry, the
videographer for the weddingactually emailed us and she was
like do you want me to edit outall the times your family say?
She and I was like no, I don't,because that's how they know me
yeah they've had me as 30 yearsof ash, as a she, as our
daughter, and it's probably notgoing to change and that's fine.

Chrystal (23:07):
Yeah, I don't, you're not getting angry at them.

Ashleigh King (23:10):
Labels like that because I'm also very
comfortable in who I am.
Call me what you want like itis what it is.
I understand people who havehad to fight for who.
They are getting a little bitmore upset, but I think we all
just need to take a step backand be like okay, this is a
learning opportunity.
Let's just be like actually,these are my pronouns.
Do you know what that means?
Like so yeah.

Chrystal (23:30):
So I guess the next question was like when you did
change your pronouns, did youhave that conversation with your
family?
How did they know?

Ashleigh King (23:39):
Yeah, no, no, I haven't.

Chrystal (23:41):
Okay.

Ashleigh King (23:41):
And I haven't even really bothered.
I could, I could, but I just Igenuinely am not bothered by my
family.
They see, they follow me onsocial media, they see on social
media.
So no, but we've never had afull conversation about it and
that's because I'm not like it'snot my sword to die on, I'm
like it is what it is.
I, for a while my pronouns wereshe, they, because I was like

(24:02):
I'm just going to ease on intoit.
I realised very quickly thatwas for other people, not for me
.
Yeah, so I was like no, I amgoing to go with it.
If people get it wrong, that'sfine.
I'm not going to be mad, I'mnot going to let it ruin my day
or or take up energy.
I'm just like actually, theseare my pronouns and I know that
from the younger generation onit's just gonna be that way, and

(24:23):
I find a lot of people.
My favorite argument ever iswhen people like, oh, pronouns
don't exist.
I'm like, actually, we've beenusing pronouns since the
beginning of language and youactually have them, like that's
my favorite thing it's on your.

Chrystal (24:34):
No, it's not.

Rose (24:38):
It's not but gender's on passport.

Chrystal (24:40):
Yes.

Rose (24:41):
But it's like, how do I refer to you if you don't have a
pronoun?

Chrystal (24:45):
then, mate.
Oh my gosh, Like, has Kenzasked any questions?
Like is she inquisitive aboutthe whole thing or not?

Ashleigh King (24:54):
really she's not really bothered.
We've had conversations withher.
Rosie's really good at it,because our Rosie kind of goes
into fight for me with it alittle bit and it's sweet.
I love that for her, but it'salso probably a little bit her
wrapping her head around it andyou know how sometimes if you
teach something, you learn youlearn it yeah so we've had some
really good conversations.
Kenz just gets it you're stillmum.

(25:16):
I'm still mum and she will, youknow, say things.
We'll watch the show, and she'slike they're a non-binary too,
mum and she.
She said some really cutethings.
Actually, we watched, um afooty game a while back and um,
she was like, mum, is this thegirls or the boys?
And I was like it's the boys.
She was like, okay, she's likemum, is there a non-binary team?
and I was like oh no, I was like, maybe one day there will be,

(25:37):
who knows.
But yeah, she gets it, kids getit, because kids are so funny.

Rose (25:42):
I feel like they just naturally like adapt, though
yeah, they're like, oh cool.
They see you for the person youare and not for what the world,
I think, sees you or wants youto be.

Ashleigh King (25:52):
They're still very inquisitive, like the times
that I've gone into school tolike volunteer, when she was in
kindy and one of the girls waslike why do you have two mums?
And Kenzie was like why don'tyou like?
And she's also when she waslike really little.
I remember her asking anothergirl in the playground.
She's like who's your othermummy?
And we were like oh no, no, no,not, not everyone has.

(26:13):
And I think it's different forher because she also has a dad
yeah, yeah like if Rosie and Ihave a child, now that that
child won't have a dad.
So it's a completely differentdynamic to navigate.
But I think kids are just likeoh okay, sure.

Chrystal (26:24):
Yeah, I feel like the kids need to know the questions,
like my daughter is soinquisitive and sometimes I
don't even know like the answer.
Yeah, like she actually wantedto fight this kid at school
because a little boy said thathe was gay.
Yeah.
A little boy said that he wasgay and some kids were picking
on him and then she was likegoing to fight them, saying he's
just human, I love that, he'slike me and you yeah.

(26:45):
Anyway, she asked all thequestions.

Ashleigh King (26:48):
And it's okay to not know the answers.

Chrystal (26:50):
Sometimes I'm like babe, I don't know.

Ashleigh King (26:52):
But that is the best answer.
I think a lot of parents lieand they do it to protect what
they think is innocence or theyjust do it because they don't
have an answer or they'reuncomfortable with the answer,
so they'll lie about it ratherthan just saying, hey, I
actually don't know the answerto that.
Let's find out together.
That's one of the best thingsyou can say to your kids to make
their minds grow.

Chrystal (27:12):
No, but it's when she asked me how do two men have a
baby?
And I'm like they need help,like those sort of questions.
I'm like I'm not going to lieto her and say, oh, it's magic.

Rose (27:21):
They just have a baby.
Because the reason I said funnyyou should mention this is I
was taking my makeup off lastnight and Tut, my four-year-old,
was laying in bed and she toldCraig out loud she's like babies
come from lettuce leaves and Inearly died.
I said Craig, what did she say?
Craig was laughing.

Chrystal (27:41):
Did Craig tell her that?

Rose (27:43):
No, a kid at school.
So Blake told me this is notthe girl's name, but that you
know the babies come out oflettuce leaves and I was like no
, they don't, so their parent isuncomfortable around the
conversation of sex and wherebabies come from and has just
made it up and we are notuncomfortable around that topic.

Chrystal (27:59):
That kid is going to be very confused.

Ashleigh King (28:00):
Our kid comes out .
She knows everything.

Rose (28:04):
I have always told her.
I said no Tart, you know wherebabies come from?
Yeah, out of the vagina.
And I was like exactly, and I'mlike I don't want her to think
it's rude and that's why I waslike cracking up, I don't go

(28:25):
into, like I have called it aspecial hug.
I was like you know the mum andthe dad, you know we have a
special hug, and then he's got,like you know his penis and
there's a vagina.
And then you know I haven'tgone into depth she's four there
.
There's also like Ageappropriate.

Ashleigh King (28:40):
Age appropriate.
There's a really good book atKmart that we bought years ago.
I think it's called when DoBabies Come From, and it's the
most scientifically accuratebook that I've ever found for
kids and it's Kenzie's favouritebook.
She'll always bring it out.
What's it called?

Chrystal (28:54):
I think they gave it to my kids in school when they
did the sex talk.

Ashleigh King (28:58):
It's so fantastic , and she knows, even mentions
IVF.
It mentions same-sex couplesand sperm donation.

Rose (29:04):
I love that.

Ashleigh King (29:04):
And so we've had that conversation with Kenzie,
because she'll be like well, howdo you make a baby?
And we'll say we need some help, we need a donor.
We are all just a sum of ourparts, right?
So an egg and a sperm, andthat's how life happens.
That's how birds make babiesand that's how animals make
babies, and they don't need toknow.
Yeah, age appropriate.

Chrystal (29:22):
They're nitty gritty, but I mean, you do have glass
dildos all over your house,don't you?
Yeah?

Ashleigh King (29:27):
we do and actually funny you say that
because we've got a lot of hatefor that over the years because
people are like, oh, it's ageappropriate.
I'm like she actually knowswhat they're for too.
Thought too.
She's not like, oh, this isjust a toy.
She knows they're adult toys,she knows that it goes in the
vagina.
Or she's said something about abutt plug the other day and
almost died and she was likewhen I'm a grown-up I can do
that if I want to.
Hey, mum, and I was like, yeah,when you're a grown-up, when

(29:48):
it's, you know, we've had someuncomfortable conversations,
rosie and I, about you know whenthe time comes that all kids go
through it, they're touchingthemselves because it feels good
, right, and how we want toreact and it's just like.
I know that feels good, butthis is something we do in the
privacy of our own room, so feelfree to keep doing it, but just
not in public living spaces,and those people, though, that

(30:10):
are having a go.

Chrystal (30:10):
It's like, mate, what our kids are watching on the
internet or what they'relistening to in the school
grounds.

Rose (30:17):
I can guarantee it's much worse than what we're educating
our kids on, but alsomisinformation in all regards
around sexuality, around sex.

Ashleigh King (30:28):
If they're learning it from their friends,
they're learning it wrong andthey're learning dangerous
things that, a lead to badthings happening to teenagers,
or B, it leads to women or menbeing so shut down around their
sexuality and having trauma andneed help in their adulthood
rather than just being like.
Do you know what I vividlyremember?
In year I must have been yearsix and we had this company come

(30:48):
in to teach us sex ed and theytook the boys outside and the
girls stayed inside and thegirls learned about periods and
the boys came in.
They learned about masturbationand wet dreams and I remember,
remember, being like where wasour masturbation chat?
Are we not meant to do like?
Are we not allowed to do that?
And I, I think it's so equallyimportant to teach girls that
they are allowed to havepleasure and they are allowed to
masturbate and they're allowedto touch themselves.

(31:09):
It's not just boys, and alsoboys need to learn about periods
, because if they're going to bea husband one day, they're
going to be a total jackass.
That is just like.
I don't want to hear about it,don't want to know Like.

Chrystal (31:18):
I've already had that chat with Levi.

Ashleigh King (31:19):
Yeah, it's got to be open.
My friend's son.
She sent him to high schoolwith a little bag, just as she
would send her daughter withtampons, pads and condoms all
three and she said it's good foryou to hold them too, because
if you have a friend, that's agirl or a girl.

Rose (31:32):
That's desperate you've got one.
It still does happen.
I think they still separatethem.
I'm pretty sure my 13-year-oldthey still separated them and
that kind of makes me sadbecause I do, like you were just
saying, I really would love theboys to feel comfortable around
those chats that.
You know, periods are how youactually, you know, one day your

(31:54):
wife or partner if that's theway that you know you're going
is going to have a baby, andwithout a period or even if
you're not like.

Ashleigh King (32:03):
I've got gay friends who now have a daughter
and they're like what do I do?
Like how do I don't know?
Yeah, so it, yeah, it's, it'ssuper important.
Kenzie knows exactly what theyare.
Nothing, nothing is off limits.
We're obviously not like hereyou go try it, like that's not
going to happen do you know whenshe's a teenager?

Chrystal (32:20):
then we're able to have that conversation to be
like if you feel like doing that, here you go she's actually
going to be such a confidentlike woman growing up because of
all of those things that youguys have taught her.
She's in the known of it.
I feel like the kids that aresheltered and told that babies
come from lettuce leaves they'regoing to get a shock when they
find out they're going to belike what do you mean?

(32:41):
Babies, come out of my vagina.

Ashleigh King (32:43):
I know they're also the kids that get pregnant
as teenagers on the first go,because they think they can't
get pregnant on the first try,because it comes out of a
lettuce leaf obviously.

Rose (32:57):
I don't have a lettuce in the house.
I was giggling so hard and thenshe was more convinced that I
was lying.
Yeah, after all that.
And I was like this is undone.
So much work.
So we had to sit there and belike no let's, let's go over
this again.
We had actually poor littleBlake very early on.

Ashleigh King (33:13):
Kenzie threw some shade at us which was in the
back, because she was likesomething about marriage.
She was like no, mum, girlsmarry boys.
And I was like what?
And she was adamant.
She was like no, girls can'tmarry girls, girls can only
marry boys.
And she was so and we were likethis little homophobe in the
back, what the actual no, kenzie, where did that come from?
And she's very like I've had tolike was like no, girls can't

(33:36):
play football.
And I'm like, oh my god, I playfootball.

Rose (33:39):
Like what the action she's like, it's just in her, but it
happens so fast in the in theschool system as well, because I
was a huge tomboy.
Yeah, I grew up with mybrothers and my cousins.
I wanted to be exactly likethem.
I hated wearing dresses, Iplayed footy, I was tougher than
them, I could beat the crap outof them, I was stronger than

(34:00):
them and I loved it.
I've always been athletic.
I believe a lot of my bodyissues and acceptance came from
not accepting that that was okay, that I should have been more
feminine, that my body shouldhave been more curvy, that I
looked too muscular, I lookedtoo masculine and I was acting

(34:22):
too masculine and I wasconstantly told act like a girl,
go inside and paint your nails.
My dad has actually said thatto me.
I've talked to him about thatnow and he didn't do it in a
mean way.
He was just like I don't wantyou to be looking it was, he was
worried.

Ashleigh King (34:37):
Yeah, he was trying to protect you from what
other people would say, or andthat comes from how they were
parented exactly like thepatriarchy which is, you know,
the buzzword of of the decade.
But it's, it's true, it's.

Rose (34:51):
We were told that we have to do it like this and if we're
not, it's wrong and it's yeah,and I think that's also
important because I am so, Ifeel so feminine and I feel so
comfortable with my sexuality,but you're also allowed to.
You're just.
I love sport and I love, youknow, being strong, and I loved

(35:12):
hanging out with the boys and itfelt very comfortable.
Also, that it's okay to beyourself and that sexuality and
your gender are completely twodifferent things.
You don't have to present acertain way.

Chrystal (35:22):
I'm having this issue with Natalia at the moment
because she only wants to wearbaggy t-shirts and bike shorts.
And so when we go out to anevent, my husband's like put on
a dress, and she's like I don'twant to wear a dress, I don't
like dresses.
And I'm like can you just lether be comfortable in whatever
she wants to wear?

Ashleigh King (35:38):
Yeah, if that's bike shorts and a dressier top
or a dressier t-shirt, but alsoyou can also ask her to be like
do you want a suit, do you wantto go and buy a suit?
Like they're things I wish Ihad the opportunity to do,
because I was always like ugh adress.
And actually someone posted ina group I'm in recently.
They're like I'm gettingmarried, all Like I'm getting
married.
All my kids are bridesmaids,but I've got one daughter

(35:59):
refusing to wear a dress andshe's just being difficult and
she blah, blah, blah, blah, andI was like what about your son?
She's like he's wearing a suit.
She wants to wear a suit too,and I'm like why would you say
no Like?
Why would you want her to feeluncomfortable?
What is the big deal.

Rose (36:25):
And at the end of the day, the big answer questions.
If people are like, oh, why isshe wearing a suit?
Like, but why does thatautomatically how we dress have
to equal?
Exactly right, what we are,exactly right.
So, yeah, that's reallyimportant as well.
I'm glad we went down that.
But let's go back to you.
Have recently married.
Yeah to the love of your life.
Yeah, look at that faceimmediately.

Ashleigh King (36:35):
I'm still in the bubble.

Rose (36:36):
Yeah, our wedding the, the smile has hit ear to ear.
Yeah, finding love.
Did you ever think you wouldfind a love like you have at the
moment?
Like, did you think it waspossible, like you had the?

Ashleigh King (36:49):
connection, Like I had a very good marriage and I
was very happy in that.
But now having this, I'm like Idon't think many people
experience this because peopledon't talk about it like you
hear about it in like movies orpoetry or stuff, but you're just
like you're making that up.

Rose (37:05):
So you were happy in your marriage but you weren't like
love, like deep.
Yeah, like you were, like I'mhappy.

Ashleigh King (37:12):
I definitely loved him, but it was a safe yes
, it wasn't risky love.
It wasn't like and I alwaysused to say we used to joke
because he was 13 years olderthan me.
So, we used to joke I'd be like,well, you're going to die first
one, you know, and when thathappens and I'm alone, I'll
marry a woman, like it wasalways a joke.
And there was always this likeafter, not, I was thinking it

(37:35):
and wanting it, but there wasthat thought of what would I do
after, and wanting it, but therewas that thought of what would
I do after, whereas with Rosiethere's no after.
There's like there is us andthen there is hell and I don't
want after there's.
There's no other thoughts yeah.

Chrystal (37:48):
I know during your wedding vows um, rosie said or
was it you, I think it was Rosiethat said she felt like her
soul recognized you yeah it wasit was literally like you are
who I meant to be with.

Ashleigh King (38:02):
It's like we've found each other in past
lifetimes and we'll find eachother again yeah, this is how
it's meant to be.

Rose (38:08):
I know, yeah, there's no after me and Craig.
That's the thing.
That's why I wanted to ask thisquestion is because it's always
okay to see people hating ontheir husbands or wives or
whatever partners on socials, inthe media, like it's a haha
joke.
Yeah, but it's almost moreuncommon to be in love.

(38:29):
They're like oh, fuck off.
Yeah, like you're.

Ashleigh King (38:31):
You're pretending oh, it's like or be sunshine,
and it's not all sunshine androses, there's two different but
it does exist a but like.
Not once have I ever.
I don't know, I don't.
I used to, like my husband andI.
You know we used to fight, thatwas what it was, and Rosie and
I fight, but I never, I don'tever want to and I don't ever
want to stir her up and I justwant to fix it if we've had a

(38:53):
miscommunication.

Rose (39:00):
And I don't want to like.
I genuinely yeah, I don't know.
Ash just said that they were inthe love bubble, but you guys
have been together six years.
Yeah, we have that's a bigbubble, that's a beautiful big
love bubble.

Ashleigh King (39:05):
There's been moments that it's like you know,
all hell has broken loose.
We've gone through grief.
We've gone through like lifebeing turned upside down, um.
We've gone through stepparenting a two-year-old like
it's a lot, but we're still veryhappily in that bubble like I
don't think we're.
Yeah, there's not a point wherewe're like oh yeah, just that's
my wife.
Like yeah.

Chrystal (39:26):
I'm not.

Ashleigh King (39:26):
I'm like this is the greatest human I've ever
known and I'm like so excited tobe married you know what, too,
though?

Chrystal (39:31):
I feel like you guys, an inspiration, yeah, just the
fact that people can look at youguys and be like it's okay that
I'm allowed to be like that aswell like with my partner, but
also that true love is possibleAbsolutely.

Rose (39:44):
It gives people hope and it might not be what you expect
or want in life.

Ashleigh King (39:50):
We've got a few friends that are dating.
Fuck that honestly.

Chrystal (39:55):
I don't know what to do if I became single again.

Ashleigh King (39:58):
I just genuinely want to.
It's like hell.
I look at it and I'm like thankGod I do not have to do that,
because that is hell.
But, I look at them and they'relike I've got this.
You know, this is my list ofprerequisites and I'm absolutely
, I'm all for that.
You have to havenon-negotiables.
You have to be unwavering inyour boundaries of what you.

(40:22):
But I think sometimes they'renon-negotiables are shit and I'm
like you're non-negotiable,like why?
Why do you?
Because you, you might beblocking the door on your soul
mate who has that one thing.

Rose (40:27):
Or it's just about ebbs and flows and compromises and
just, I think, giving people ago.
So Craig and I had aconversation last.
We were just talking about,obviously, lettuce leaves, um
meeting you today, um talkingwith you today, and he said,
like what, if that was me?
That I decided I wasn't goingto be, I didn't feel male
anymore.
Yeah, would you leave me?

(40:48):
And I was like whoa, craig is avery masculine blokey bloke.
You've met Craig.
You know Craig well.
I was like you never had tothink about it.
He's never posed that question.
I was like you never had tothink about it.
He's never posed that question.
I was like this is deep for you, babe, like he's not a deep
person.

Ashleigh King (41:03):
But do you mean if he wasn't masculine and
blokey, or he wasn't?
No, he said because you canstill be a masculine, like he
could still be masculine andalso not a woman.

Rose (41:15):
No, yeah, he was like what if I was?
He goes, I wanted to be afemale.
And I was like he's like, wouldyou still stay with me, would
you want to, would you?
I said, yeah, I would still bewith you.
I was like 100%.

Ashleigh King (41:27):
Your morals and who you are.
I said it's you.

Rose (41:30):
I said, I think to a point and I don't know if you guys
feel the same to a point Istopped seeing Craig.
This is weird to say.
I stopped seeing him as a man,yeah, as a human, and I only see
Craig like me and him thefeeling.
He gives me the person that heis.
And we've been together 18, 19years this year and that's not

(41:53):
to say it wouldn't be hard.

Ashleigh King (41:55):
No, and there's parts of him that you would miss
and I think that we've had tonavigate that because, like
Rosie was being like but Ireally loved when you had long
hair or she used to love when Iused to do calisthenics.
I'd come home from training andI'd wear my leotard and she was
like I love that and I'm like Ican chuck the leotard on
anytime and you're like it's inthe wardrobe, it's fine, you

(42:21):
know.
So there was parts of myfemininity that she did like and
I'm like we can address thatlike yeah, we can play with that
.
And I also have friends thatwere lesbians and now one
partner has transitioned as aman and has had top surgery and
they always get questions likebut you know, your wife loves
you as a woman and loves yourboobs, so they're gonna miss
that.
And more often than not thewives come out and be like I
actually just love them, Iactually don't care.
Like if it's making them happier.
Of course, there's going to bepeople that would be like I

(42:44):
really miss your boobs, Like Ireally don't want you to have
top surgery.
I really love that about youand that is going to be a hard
thing to navigate if one persondoesn't want it and one person
does of course, but as long asyou're willing to work through
that and compromise.

Rose (42:58):
Yeah, that's what I just thought.
It was such an interestingthing for him.
He doesn't go deep, so I waslike what.
I was like who are you?
He was intrigued on the subject.
Yeah, he was very interested aswell and I was like it is wild
though that you actually can,you do eventually just see a
person.
Yeah, absolutely Obviously.
You know you still areattracted to a male or female,

(43:18):
whatever, or whatever that maybe, but yeah, I was like wow,
craig.
I was like that was really indepth even for me to think about
I hadn't actually put myself inthat position and I was like no
, I do love you, but I know that, yeah, some people would be
non-negotiable, Some people and,like you were saying, it'd be
very hard to you know, navigatesome parts of that journey.

Ashleigh King (43:46):
Yeah, you know, navigate some parts of that
journey.
Yeah, I think because there'sso many moving parts there is,
but I think we also wanted totouch base, we could literally
talk forever, so forever, withyou very faceted.

Chrystal (43:51):
Yeah, we did.
You like that word.
Whoever followed you on socialor haven't followed you on
socials may or may not have seenthat you went through a really
crazy time in your life whereyou were diagnosed with TM and
MS Yep.
Watching it on the outsidemyself, I was like fearful, like
I was like you had likesomething coming out of your
neck and I was like, oh my gosh,I was so invested, I was like

(44:15):
watching and I was just like, ohmy, I felt so much.
Emotions Got hectic real quick.
Oh my gosh, like tell us, how,how, how did that even happen?
Because, like what literallywent?
I saw you in a hospital bed andI was like what?

Rose (44:25):
and she was paralyzed, yeah, and I was like I literally
was like is Ash gonna die?
Like I genuinely was likewhat's happening?

Ashleigh King (44:33):
yeah, yeah, well we felt that way too.
So I three years ago, basicallythis week, I um, it was the end
of Jan I thought I kind of hurtmy hip.
I was a dancer, so I was like,yeah, yeah, whatever, it's just
another injury Went to my firsttraining for the year and I just
couldn't push past the hip pain, like trying to do my splits,

(44:53):
and normally it's sore but youcan do it.
But I couldn't go any furtherand I was like this is really
weird.
Fine, maybe I've pinched anerve.
It started to get worse in the.
It was just hip pain, justlocalized.
So then I went to the chiro andhe was like, oh, have you got
any numbness?
And I was like, oh, I have hada bit of like going in and out

(45:14):
of numbness.
I was like I just assumed thatI'd pinched a nerve and that was
why.
And he's, he's like here's areferral for the doctor.
And then so I was like, okay,I'll go to the doctor.
And I was like I don't want topay 700 bucks for an MRI, just
fix my pinched nerve.
So then a few days went past,waiting for my doctor's

(45:34):
appointment, went into thedoctor and I vividly by that
stage it was numb a lot more.
But again I just thought it wasthis pinched nerve and I got up
on the hospital bed and he likelifted my leg up and he goes,
hold it here and let it go andit just dropped and I was like
what the hell?
Like I can't, I couldn't holdit there and I was like it's
really weird.
And he's like, and I'd startedto develop this weird like nerve

(45:56):
pain, but it wasn't too bad, itwas just on my thigh.
I was like it's just, you know,someone just needs to fix my
back.
It's awkward.
He said to me, if it gets anyworse over the next 24 hours, go
straight to emergency.
And I was like, okay, sure, thenext day was Saturday.
I went to training, I hadtraining all day and by
lunchtime I was like bent over.
I couldn't lift my legs,couldn't move it.

(46:17):
So was the pain in your legthat?

Rose (46:20):
day.

Ashleigh King (46:21):
Still in my hip, but my thigh, the nerve pain,
and it was hot.
So I was wearing shorts, justsport shorts, and I had to roll
it up so it couldn't be touchingAnything.
Just lightly touching my skinwas horrific.
I almost bopped Kenzie in theface because she came up and
like hugged me and I was like,get off me.
It was horrific.
It just got worse and worse andworse.
So I went to the hospital thatnight.

(46:44):
I could hardly walk and by thetime we were admitted into that
hospital, like we were in thewaiting room.
It was a Saturday night, so ofcourse it was just hectic.
I literally couldn't feeleither of my legs, couldn't walk
.
I had to get a wheelchair,other than the pain in my thigh
and I'm very.
Someone above was watching mebecause normally on a Saturday
and Sunday they don't haveradiographers at the hospital.

(47:06):
They wait till Monday.
So there was no x-rays or MRIperson there, um, so they were
like, oh, in the waiting room.
They're like we'll probably getyou some painkillers, check it
out, we'll send you home, you'llprobably come back for an
appointment on Monday.
We're like, okay, whatever, andlike we weren't even thinking
anything of it.
We literally sat in the waitingroom and Rosie was like, oh,
when we leave, we leave, we'llgo get a beer.
And I was like, yeah, cool, Ididn't leave for four weeks.

(47:28):
So that's like From that day.
From that day I was admitted,all it took was this one doctor
to take me seriously and he wasplaying around some very
invasive tests.
I remember probably TMI.
No, never, he was like I butsure.
I wasn't expecting that and sohe did, and he was like blah,

(47:49):
blah.
And he was like where can you?
And I was like I can't feel itand Rosie's like are you joking?
And I was like I can't feel athing, couldn't feel a thing and
I, at that point, I couldn't goto, I had no feeling to go to
the toilet.
I couldn't push, I had nofeeling couldn't walk.

Rose (48:02):
you couldn't walk at this stage, but they were going to
send you home.
Is that what I'm hearing atfirst?

Ashleigh King (48:06):
No, not at first At first, when they were kind of
like oh, it's a nerve, okayyeah.
Once they did this, he was likethen there was a major car
accident, so they called in theon-call radiographer and they
were like we're just going tosneak you in there, and thank
God because.
It was worse than what, so Icame out and I remember him
coming in and being like sothere's inflammation on your

(48:28):
spinal cord, it's calledtransverse myelitis.
And I remember him saying likeit could be linked to multiple
sclerosis and like it was notwhat we were expecting at all.
So Rosie and I were just like Ibeg your pardon Like that's
like a big disease.
Like what the hell?
And so they admitted me thatnight.
Rosie went home distraughtbecause it was after visiting

(48:50):
hours.
She was just a mess, fairenough.
Like your partner can't walk.

Chrystal (48:53):
She probably went on Google, though that's what I
would do.

Rose (48:55):
You would have got to Google your life away.

Ashleigh King (48:58):
I don't think she did.
She's not really like that,that's good.
But she just went home a messbecause she was like don't want
to go home without you.
I didn't, I wasn't expecting toleave you there.
I had nothing.
I had like yeah.
And so then I'm yeah again.
I'm lucky the on-callradiographer came in and I'm
lucky that only six months priorthey had actually had a case at

(49:18):
Charles Gardner, so they knewexactly what it was.
It's incredibly rare, it's likeone in four million people or
something, and it's essentiallyinflammation on both sides of
the spinal cord.
So so mine is at my T11vertebra right around my belly
button and it just looks like alittle air pocket in my spinal
cord.
Okay, does it develop?

Rose (49:36):
or what.

Ashleigh King (49:37):
Yeah, so there's slow onset and quick onset, and
mine was, funnily enough, slowonset.
There's some people the guythat they had had six months
before was literally runningdown the coast and bang numb
fall on his face gone.

Chrystal (49:51):
Wow, I was thinking yours was quick, but it was over
days, yeah it was over abouttwo or three weeks.

Ashleigh King (49:57):
So I first remember end of Jan was our
first training and Valentine'sday.
It was getting pretty bad.
We sat at a hotel and Iremember just floating in the
pool like this feels so muchbetter of the weight, and then I
think I went in a few daysafter that.
Um, yeah, it was pretty prettybad.

Rose (50:15):
So now, is t tm something that you live?
Is it something you live with?

Ashleigh King (50:21):
yeah, so tm is just the it's inflammation on
the spinal cord.
Yeah, so yeah, I does it comeback.
Can it come back?
Yeah it can, it can, it canhave.
So basically it's caused by my.
My body has, like it's sensedsomething coming into the body,
it's gone to attack and it'sjust attacked its own spinal
cord okay that makes sense.

(50:42):
We still don't know, and weprobably will never know what
caused it.
They they think for me it'sglandular fever.
I've had glandular fevermultiple times in my life.
It's some kind of viral loadthat my body's trying to fight
off and it's just gone too hard.
For some people it could be, um, the flu.
For some people could bechickenpox.
For some people it could be aphysical injury like a car

(51:02):
accident.
For some people it could be, um, like a injury, like it's just
essentially something's happenedto the body.
The body's trying to fix itselfand goes too hard In instance,
like it's very it's not verycommon, it's very rare, but it's
more common in people with MS,because MS the body creates the
inflammation, tries to fight it.
So they then did the testingand then about six, six months

(51:24):
later I was diagnosed with MS.
You have to have had multipleattacks to be officially
diagnosed, but I have had theone attack and I have the
banding that suggests that I dohave it.

Rose (51:35):
Yes, so moving forward.
What does this mean with thisdiagnosis of having MS?

Ashleigh King (51:42):
It's really unknown because it's so
different.
Every person experiencesdifferent and there's all
different types of MS.
There's like really fastprogressing and slow progressing
.
I am not medicated because I'veonly had the one isolated
attack and I don't really needit.
Like I have no feeling in myleft leg from just below the hip
to the ankle, so that was inboth legs.
But while I was in hospitalhaving the treatment my right

(52:04):
leg kind of came back and then Ihad to learn to use it.
So I've learnt to walk again onthe numb leg.

Chrystal (52:10):
So right now your leg is still numb?
Yep, we would never know.
I just thought that yourfeeling came, like you no
there's no feeling.

Rose (52:17):
This babe just comes waltzing in, I can feel
goosebumps, which is reallyweird, I can feel goosebumps on
the leg.

Ashleigh King (52:22):
That's the only thing and I can feel my foot,
which is very helpful forwalking, because at the
beginning I couldn't feel myfoot and it was very bizarre.

Chrystal (52:30):
Yeah.

Ashleigh King (52:31):
But yeah, there's no feeling Wow.

Rose (52:35):
Okay, and Ash is a dancer the official choreographer for.
Jungle Body.
So that's why I said at thestart, I was like getting that
sense of independence andidentity.
And then how did that allchange for you within yourself?
Yeah, having had that, you'vegone into this, you know, I
think when you're in a couple,in a relationship, you know

(52:58):
you're together, you're healthy,you're young, you've got the
rest of your life ahead of you.
Like, how did that change yourperspective on life?
Well, we had got engaged liketwo weeks before.

Ashleigh King (53:08):
So it was like the biggest shit show you could
ever imagine.
So it was going to be my 30thbirthday on the 2nd of Feb and
we'd planned Rosie had plannedthis like party, like dinner
with all my friends.
A chef was coming in, it's allI wanted, just a nice dinner
with my friends.
And then the day before thatwas meant to be the week after
my birthday, the day before myactual birthday, we went into

(53:29):
lockdown, like Perth had twolockdowns and one was the day
before my 30th birthday and Ihad planned to propose two days
after my birthday.
I had this big grand plan I'dhired a photographer, I'd booked
the tickets to go out toPenguin Island, because when
Rosie and I first got together,we sat on the bench in front of
her house and you can see it.
And we sat on the bench infront of her house and you can
see it, and I was like, oh,penguins.
I was like penguins mate forlife.

(53:49):
They present a rock to theirloved one, and so I was like I'm
going to present a rock to mypenguin, like it was meant to be
.
We're going to go, yeah, and Ihard photograph everything,
bloody lockdown.
I was like are you fuckingkidding me, like of all the
weeks, what the hell?
And so you had to canceleverything.
And then I was really upset andRosie thought it was because
like my birthday was ruined.
I was like I actually don't,she just didn't know.

Chrystal (54:11):
I had all these plans.

Ashleigh King (54:12):
And then I was like you know what I'm just
gonna propose on my birthday?
I'm just gonna do it on my 30thbirthday.
I couldn't think of anythingbetter.
I was like I'm gonna say I wantto have a really nice dinner,
let's get dressed up.
So I did.
We had a couple of bottles ofchampagne and proposed.
So we were on this like highand we had a week of just the
two of us and Kenzie in and outfrom her dad's, of just living

(54:32):
in this like proposal bubblewith no outside world.
So it was this amazing high andthen all of a sudden I can't
walk.
I'm in hospital for four weeks.
Like it was just like what thehell?
Yeah.
And it was yeah, I had thosemoments of like that's my job
gone, because, like how can I dochoreography?

(54:52):
I can't even walk.
Like what am I gonna do?
I had moments of like I was acalisthenics coach.
I was coaching two teams and Iwas at the time competing.
I was had to pull out ofeverything.
I just had this whole like thisis my whole identity of me
being active and and all thesethings.
That is gone but, I think itactually kind of, in a way,
drove me like if I was just inan office job, or I think I just

(55:14):
would have been like, yeah,okay, it's not the end of the
world, but I was like I needthis, I need to be moving, I'm
not going to take no for ananswer.
I'm going to walk again.

Rose (55:24):
There was just no question in your mind.

Ashleigh King (55:26):
No, and there was no question in my mind that I
would one day walk again.
I didn't think it was, would beprobably as quick as I had.
And TM can be very aggressiveand there's a lot of people that
never walk again or or areparalysed from the neck down,
like depending where yourinflammation is, Um, and a lot
of people that kind of give up.
They get the diagnosis andthey're like that's it, I'm in a

(55:49):
wheelchair whereas I was likeI'm not gonna.
I was, I was willing to acceptit and I had said to Rosie I had
this day where I was like Ijust need to look at the worst
case scenario in the eye and belike I'm gonna be okay.
So I was like do you know what?
If I'm in a wheelchair, I'mgonna create a wheelchair
workout and I'm gonna.
I was like I'm gonna do this,I'm gonna be a disabled model.
I had all these like things.

(56:10):
I was like I just had to lookat it and be like this is the
worst case scenario for me.
Okay, I can make that work.
And from then on I was like I'mgood, because if that's the
worst case, I can do that so,ash, I just, I just love that
like.

Rose (56:24):
I find that so inspiring and I think this is the best,
that this is what I always say,that, like, I find that so
inspiring and I think this isthe best, that this is what I
always say, that this is thebest that I am today.
And what can I do with that?
And I just, I was just sittingthere going.
That is just beautiful.
I know it's not ideal, but thefact that you were already like,
oh, I'm going to be a disabledmodel, I'm going to do you know,
inclusive disabled workouts andthings like that, and

(56:45):
automatically your brain hasgone to that best case scenario
in the worst case, yeah, itreally taught me to be really
resilient.

Ashleigh King (56:53):
I think I was already quite a resilient person
, but I think it just kind ofcemented that for me.
And a lot of my friends andfamily were really struggling,
rosie included.
Rosie really struggled and fairenough, sometimes it's easier
to be the person in it than theperson helping.
I think that with birth, Ithink you've got control,
whereas the partner I can'timagine watching it unfold and

(57:16):
the person you love the mostbeing in so much pain and not
being able to do anything.
So it's the same thing.
People will be like, oh, butRosie wasn't even going through
it.
And I'm like, yeah, she was,and she wasn't even going
through it.
And I'm like, yeah, she was sheand she had no control over it.
She was like watching the loveof her life maybe be in a
wheelchair for the rest of theshe just wanted to take it all
away for you, but she you know?

Chrystal (57:34):
yeah, I remember that conversation where she was like
we live in a multi-story home.
Like how is Ash going to getaround in a wheelchair?

Ashleigh King (57:41):
we live in the worst home for someone who's in
a world and for the first fewmonths because I was determined
to get.
Our bedroom is on the top leveland we have even just to get in
our house.
There's concrete stairs so likethey came out and put this big
rail in and it was just the guythat got there, the OT.
That was like, well, he'd haveset up your house and he walked.

Chrystal (57:59):
He was like the fuck your house is insane.

Ashleigh King (58:03):
We were like, yeah, we're really settled on
this house.
But I literally for the first,the first week or so, we slept
on the main level in the spareroom.
Just it was just easier.
And then I was like I'm done, Ineed to get to my bed, I want
to get back to normal, I need tolearn how to navigate it, and
so I would literally go up anddown the stairs on my butt like
I would hang this leg over and Iwould go.
And then there was a time whereKenzie would only go downstairs

(58:25):
on her butt, like she wouldcopy me yeah but I was like I
this I just have to do, you justhave to.
There's no point me sitting herefeeling sorry for myself, like
miserable that I'm in awheelchair, miserable that I've
lost, because I'm like, yeah, Imight have lost that, but look
what I've gained.
Like I've gained thisresilience, this new lease on
life.
Like I was literally like I amso lucky, I'm so lucky to be

(58:46):
alive.
I'm so lucky that I can learnto walk again.
I'm lucky that we have thefinancial means, that Rosie can
be by my side the whole time andthat I have the job that I have
, that I can.
I don't have to give up my joband we don't have money.
I'm so lucky that there was anon-call radiographer.
I'm so lucky they knew what itwas that I went to that hospital
that I was straight, that I wasstraight on steroids.

(59:07):
I was straight on this.
Like I'm lucky that I've gotfamily and my ex-husband I was
so grateful he just stepped inand took Ken so we didn't have
to worry about it Like I was.
Like I'm all of a sudden haveall this gratefulness for very
little things that I wouldn'thave had for this.

Rose (59:23):
Yeah, you realise what's important in life as well.
Absolutely this.
Yeah, you realize what'simportant in life as well.
Absolutely, it really showsthrough.
I mean, I just think it's anincredible story.
I mean it's something thatyou're gonna live with as well.

Ashleigh King (59:33):
Yeah, um, but bring light around yeah, I joke
about it all the time.

Rose (59:36):
I think that's.
Yeah, I'm humor, yeah humor ishealing.

Ashleigh King (59:39):
Yeah well, there's been times where we're
in bed and Rosie's on my leftand I look over and she's
stroking my leg.
I'm like have you been doing?
Have you been doing that?
Because I can't feel it.
She's like oh, damn it.
You're like I love that you'redoing it.
Or we've joked about gettinglike a full leg sleeve tattoo,
because I'm like may as well.

Rose (59:55):
I can do what I want to that leg, except I don't.

Ashleigh King (59:58):
I always walk into things with this leg.
Of course you do.

Chrystal (01:00:02):
Do you Bruises on this leg?
Yeah, I was going to saybecause you would just bump it
and not realise.

Ashleigh King (01:00:06):
Yeah, I actually recently had.
My dog ran past me with thisbig rubber toy and it hit the
vein at the front and the veinmust have like popped.
And so it was this huge eggbruise and Rosie was like do we
need to go get that checked out?
And I was like I can't feel it,we're good.

Chrystal (01:00:24):
Well, it's things you've got to get used to but
the um tickling of the leg is apretty funny one.
I do like that.
Well, I think we're gonna startto wrap it up, but we've so
loved having you, um, on thepotty today.
I feel like, if anything,people are going to get some
sort of education from it, and Ithink one thing is like don't

(01:00:45):
be afraid to ask questions.

Ashleigh King (01:00:48):
If you're coming from a place of of general
curiosity and love, I think it'snever okay to ask about
someone's genitals.

Rose (01:00:55):
Yes, just in general.
I mean, would you ask anyone soexactly?

Ashleigh King (01:00:59):
yeah, yeah so it's not okay to ask that.
I think it's not okay to asklike are you getting surgery or
any of that, because that forthat person can be such a topic,
but other other than that likeask the questions If you're
coming from a place of love anda place of curiosity.

Rose (01:01:12):
that's all you can do, so like as could you give us like a
little bit of advice?
So for someone that maybe islistening, who might be
interested in like we get thisquestion a lot, interested in
like we get this question a lot,I was telling you before we
started, um, that people haveasked and said, look, I'm
interested in girls or I'm with,I have a partner, I'm with my

(01:01:34):
husband at the moment, but I've,I feel, a longing that it's not
I don't feel right and in thesame way that you're saying,
it's like not that I don't lovethem, but I don't feel yeah
fulfilled.

Ashleigh King (01:01:45):
I think sexual desires are.
You know, for some peoplethey're completely separate from
their relationship and it'sokay to acknowledge that.
Communication with your partneris massive.
I think you've got to havethose conversations to be like,
look, I have fantasized aboutwomen or I have.
You know, I love you and Idon't want us to end, but there

(01:02:05):
is this longing because yourpartner might be okay with that.
You know, there might be theopportunity for introducing
another woman or having aseparate playtime or, you know,
hiring a professional to do that, whether it's in your
relationship or separate.
But if there's like, if you'renot on the same page and they're

(01:02:26):
like no, then that's going tobe a little bit more tricky.
I think that's when you have tohave some really serious
conversations with yourselfabout who you are and what you
desire more um.
But don't be afraid of it.
We created a group, facebookgroup, called girl meet, girl um
, and we're just.
This weekend is our first bigmeeting like meetups, picnics,
sunset picnics all aroundAustralia.
I've got a Gold Coast one and aPerth one lovely, and it's not

(01:02:48):
just we found we've got somereally success stories of girls
that have met on their own andnow together.
We've got one couple that justhad a baby.
Um, we've got people that arejust looking for friendships.
We've just got people that arejust wanting to test the waters
to be like do, am I?
is this something that I'minterested in?
I think a lot of women havekind of shut it down, especially

(01:03:08):
if they were quite bi-curiousbefore they were in a
relationship, and then they getin their relationship and
they're like no, this is who Iam.
If you shut anything down,you're going to want it more,
right.
So, you've got to just look atit.
Am I suppressing anything?
Am I denying myself somethingthat I really want or a part of
myself that I really am?

Rose (01:03:34):
So this is all around.
There's different locationsaround the country.
We will definitely put this inthe show notes and like links to
all the pages that they can getthis information, but I think
that is really beautiful andit's also a way, I suppose, of
truly having a safe space wherethey don't have to worry if the
other person is also curious aswell with another female.
They already know that thateverybody is, and for some

(01:03:54):
people, it's just that, likeacknowledging it.

Ashleigh King (01:03:58):
So acknowledging, oh shit, I'm gay or I'm
bisexual.
There's a lot of women thathave come into the group and we
always tell people justintroduce yourself, just be like
, hey, this is who I am, this iswhere I'm at in my journey.
You don't have to be lookingfor someone, you don't have to
be commenting on other people's,but just acknowledging there's.
It's like a weight lifted off,like quite often we haven't told
anybody that that's how we'refeeling.

(01:04:18):
So just being like, hey, I likewomen, I find them attractive,
I want to be sexually involved.
It's kind of like, oh, oh,that's out there, it's in a safe
space, it's done Cool.

Chrystal (01:04:28):
Yeah.

Rose (01:04:29):
It's like cutting your hair.
Yeah, it's releasing the weight.

Chrystal (01:04:31):
Yeah.
So to finish up, we know thatyou love a good potato.

Ashleigh King (01:04:37):
I love potatoes.

Rose (01:04:38):
And you're a bit of a foodie.

Ashleigh King (01:04:40):
Yeah, I love food .

Rose (01:04:46):
What is three things that you would do with a potato
Straight away.

Chrystal (01:04:48):
I went to the gutter, did you, I did, did you really
With a potato?

Rose (01:04:51):
Dirty gutter potato.

Chrystal (01:04:53):
No, I'm interested.

Ashleigh King (01:04:54):
Actually that's a .
It's not a potato.
But I went to our neighboursyesterday.
She was signing Kenzie'spassport forms and she's like
I've started growing cucumbersand I was like okay, sure.
And she's like here's a bag ofthese giant cucumbers.
And I just laughed.
And then I got home and Rosie'slike maybe we could use them as
a toy.
And I was like, oh my God, whatthe hell no.

Chrystal (01:05:14):
That's what your neighbour was thinking too.
Like my three favouritepotatoes.

Ashleigh King (01:05:18):
Okay, so we went to this new restaurant the other
night called Six Head inElizabeth Quay and had these
like I don't know what they callthem, kind of like hash brown
things.
But fancy and they were coveredin butter.

Rose (01:05:37):
So good, um, so like hash brown, I love hash browns.
Um, I love mashed potato.

Chrystal (01:05:39):
Classic, classic oh, that's really hard.
Come on potato.
Are you a stuffed potato?
I think I love a good stuffedpotato.

Ashleigh King (01:05:43):
I love a baked potato oh, actually I know what
I want.
Have you?
Have you been to the SunsetMarkets recently at Scarborough?
And they do the spiral potatoes.

Rose (01:05:51):
On the stick.

Ashleigh King (01:05:51):
Yes, and they do.
One that's got a sausage in themiddle and then it's got cheese
sauce.
That's my favourite at themoment.

Chrystal (01:05:57):
So it's like one of those spirally potatoes on a
stick.

Ashleigh King (01:06:00):
Yeah, but it's wrapped around a sausage and
then it's got cheese sauce, andthen it's got cheese sauce.

Chrystal (01:06:05):
You have to go get one .
All right, that sounds like aceliac's deathbed, but both of
us, we'll risk it for thebiscuit.

Ashleigh King (01:06:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was like I would you need to
go try it.

Rose (01:06:14):
It's so good.
Oh God, potato.
Actually, I had someone saythat they don't like cheese.

Ashleigh King (01:06:19):
Rosie doesn't like cheese.
It's so weird.

Chrystal (01:06:22):
Oh no.

Rose (01:06:23):
I mean I'll go to the toilet like 16 times after but,
I, don't care.
It's a risk and a thing I'mwilling to accept.

Ashleigh King (01:06:30):
Yeah, I'm not willing to give up.

Chrystal (01:06:31):
No Well, thank you so much for coming on the potty
today.
Again, we loved having you.
Oh, my God, we talked to youall day.

Rose (01:06:38):
I know.
We actually said one hour andwe went over, but that's fine
and I feel like I haven't evenlike touched the surface.
So sorry guys, like a 10 part,maybe this might be a part two
coming soon.

Chrystal (01:06:50):
Thank you so much Thank you.

Rose (01:06:52):
We'll see you soon.
Make sure that you always lookafter yourselves and look after
each other.
Bye, bye.