August 5, 2024 • 21 mins
Ever wondered how the evolution of tipping culture has affected both servers and patrons alike? This episode promises an in-depth exploration of modern tipping practices, from the challenges posed by electronic payment systems to the blurred lines between genuine gratuity and hidden labor costs. Join hosts Bill Thornton, Kayla Lowe, and Mike Garrison as they share personal anecdotes and address the ethical complexities surrounding tips. Plus, get a sneak peek at our upcoming interviews with industry luminaries like Toby, the author of the Bartender's Manifesto, and Chad from Service Bar.
Switching things up, we dive into the hot topic of age-restricted bars, focusing on the unique policies at Donerick's Pub in Ohio, which caters to patrons 30 and over on weekends. We discuss whether this age policy is a boon or a bane for the dating scene, tipping culture, and the overall nightlife experience. With personal stories from cities like Charlotte, this episode promises a mix of thought-provoking discussions and amusing tales, offering a unique perspective on the camaraderie and logistical quirks of nightlife. Don't miss out on this blend of serious debate and light-hearted banter that's sure to keep you engaged!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey Bar Ninja Nation.
Welcome to the Bar NinjaPodcast, where we talk about
everything from trials andtribulations, from life behind
the bar to tips and tricks tomake you a better bartender and
a better drinker.
Join your host, Bill Thornton,Kayla Lowe and yours truly, Mike
Garrison.
Let's go have some fucking fun.
I just hit the cold so we canhave our usual cold open how you
guys doing Bar Ninja in thehouse.
(00:21):
I don't think we've ever saidwe're can have our usual cold
open how you guys doing.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Barton Engine to house.
I don't think we've ever saidwe're just going to the cold
open.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
I'll probably edit that out.
I edit about half of what we.
If we record for an hour, thatturns into 25 minutes.
Toby, the guy that wrote theBartender's Manifesto, which is
my favorite bartending book,said yes.
Chad that owns Service Bar saidyes.
And then the media company thatowns a bunch of bars in DC
(00:51):
wants to do it.
So I'm going to tell them yes.
And then the next one I want tointerview Charlie and Trace,
who are bartenders at FoundingFarmers in DC.
Has the craft cocktail?
Has it changed from the purplehooter to having tinctures on
the bar?
and infusions Today.
I thought we'd just fast roundit.
I have two topics.
(01:12):
If you guys have topics youwant to talk about, we can just
roll into it.
Our tipping podcast didn't save, so I thought we'd talk about
that Funny.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I feel like since we actually talked about that, I've
been even weirder about it.
We did really a deep dive intoit and started really talking
about what it's become.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Tip culture and has it gotten out of control.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yeah, and I definitely think it has.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
I think it's got out of control because I worked hard
for the tips serving people andspending time.
There was a guy on Instagramwho went by and he's like, if I
have to pay for my food before Iget it, I'm not tipping.
And then like people in theretail world.
Are we subsidizing the laborcosts for the restaurant?
Yeah, I don't know how I feelabout it completely.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
No, I just think, like with the electronics too, I
just don't trust them.
Every time they give me eventhe little pad, I'm like where
is this tip going?
What is the structure anymore?
Speaker 1 (02:05):
And it happened to me the other day.
The girl reached over andpushed no tip because she was
like we don't get them, theowner keeps them and I'm like,
no, that's not right.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
That's happened.
The guy literally like justpress, he's just pressed, no tip
.
And I was like and he prettymuch did the same thing.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
That's not fair, because that's like almost a
contract or we think we'regiving it to the people and it's
also like along the lines whereit seems like so many
operations are no longer givingcredit card tips.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
They're giving them the paycheck.
You don't get it at the end ofthe night.
It's like all of thesecorporations or businesses are
just trying to manage theirlabor cost by creating all these
revenues or ways of tipping.
It's sketch, super sketch.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah, it's supposed to be a.
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
It's supposed to be a reward for performance, not a
bucket of revenue for the owner.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Well, I feel like it's become that, though, and
that is what's unfortunate,because there's places that are
normal for tipping.
Of course, you go to arestaurant, there's good service
, the standard where we'vealways been used to tipping but
then there's places now whereI'm like why is a gratuity?
Even an option Like itliterally doesn't make any sense
.
I become like very cautious.
Now don't get me wrong.
If I walk into a coffee shopand the person is extremely
(03:12):
pleasant and they made mymorning as I'm getting a cup of
coffee, I'll tip them, but I nowcarry more cash than I even
used to.
For that reason, because I'mlike, even if I wanted to tip
this person, can I?
Because if I'm tipping them outof their good kindness, is the
company owner taking it?
I don't know, but yeah, it'sjust, it's such an it becomes
more stressful and gosh withinflation and everything already
(03:32):
being so expensive and thenalmost being like guilt tripped
until they hand you the pad andthen it's, it's great.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Sometimes it's like 20, 25, 30%, and I'm like yeah,
the minimum is 20.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Cause, I yeah, the minimum is 20.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
And then you feel like an asshole because I'm like
what happened to the basic 15%and all you've done is literally
make me a cup of coffee.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah, that's counter sales, sometimes where it's like
that's crazy.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Well, I'm all about normalizing 20%, no longer the
15% standard, or whatever youcall it.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
But we can't just be like here's your donut, it's
more like when it's for surewhen you're not being served
like counter service isdifferent than being waited on.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yeah, I'm I was sorry and I would just keep talking,
but I would say all three of usare great tippers.
We've all worked in the serviceindustry.
We've all been behind a bar,even if it's not good service on
counter service or being waitedon like I still tip a lot of
times I over tip a hundredpercent like, oh yeah, like I'm
here to think, if I can't affordto go out to eat, if I can't
(04:32):
afford to go out to eat and nottip, well, like I'm just not
going to do it, that's not fair.
So, no, I over tip, but incertain cases, like I there, I'm
just like what am I tipping for?
Speaker 1 (04:43):
and again, where is this?
Yeah, that's the thing I'mbuying groceries.
Why is it asking for a tip?
Speaker 2 (04:48):
because you rang my groceries up.
Isn't that your job not?
Speaker 1 (04:50):
grocery, but like any kind of little store, it seems
like there's either a tip jar orit goes to the gratuity stream.
These days, even in some timein some retail situations I
wonder who started that trend.
I wonder if it was like star Ithink COVID maybe a little bit
pushed it up because you feltbad, because somebody was
working, and then everything wasto go.
It, semi-normalized it, andthen it just stuck.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Also like electronics in general, like everything now
is like on the same, like iPador whatever system, and it's
like even Square.
I'm not by any means have thetechnology background and
advancement, but it's usuallythe same and it's always asking
for the gratuity.
So it's pretty simple to havethat same platform and like, why
not throw it out there?
Because, again, if it's noteven necessarily a place that
(05:37):
would technically collect tips,why wouldn't the owner do it?
Because if they can pull someextra money off and the person's
not getting it, it's not a goodthink, it's terrible, but
that's probably what's going on.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
I don't know if you can go to a sandwich spot now
that doesn't ask for a tip.
Sure, Like anything, Subway,Jersey Mile, like anything, it's
always.
It's just, it's kind of-.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
This is a good opportunity for listeners to
send in their examples of whereand how and when they've noticed
the change.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
And where and how and when they've noticed the change
.
And yeah, it's the tip culturegetting out of control.
I think we could talk differentcase scenarios about this for a
hot minute, because there areplaces, for sure, where tips are
absolutely deserved and theyshould be over tipped and
everything like that.
And then there's other timeswhere you're put in front of a
position where you feel almostguilty by not tipping, because
you're already a good tipper andyou're like well, what am I
(06:24):
doing?
Should I do this?
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
So especially to people like us who just karma is
.
I tip just to throw it back tothe universe because I've made
so much money that way same wefeel obligated.
Obligated so, and I startedrealizing, though.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
I'm like I can't keep tipping for when I'm don't even
know what I'm tipping for, andI'm like this is a lot of money
going I don't know where so nexttopic, fun topic, for a little
speed round.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
There is a bar that just opened that is for 30 or
over.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
It's basically like a millennial bar, yeah it's
getting a lot of press what areyour thoughts on?
Speaker 1 (06:58):
that like no 20 21 year olds that are doing shots
at the bar where's this at?
Speaker 2 (07:04):
where Where's the bar ?
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Was it Colorado?
I can't remember where it was.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
I honestly like that.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
I don't want to say I like it.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Let me go ahead and say, though, I actually, at this
very moment in time, couldn'tget in because I'm only 29.
I wouldn't.
I would show them my ID andthey might let me in.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
I think that therein lies the flaw then because
you're certainly the customerthey want in the building so I
get it, though.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Like also, I feel like 21 year olds.
Now I'm only 29, but gosh, 21year olds look like they're 12
to me.
I'm like what they're drinking?
Why are they drinking?
Speaker 1 (07:38):
they're going to have an alcoholic.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
but exactly I'm like, why do they have an alcoholic
beverage in their hands?
This is not good, Like I go inlike mom mode and I'm not even
30.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
So I don't know, this is a bar in Ohio.
Ohio it's called Donerick's Pub.
It's in Groveport, outside ofColumbus, and so on Friday or
Saturday nights they're going to30 and up, with no exceptions.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Oh, I wouldn't make it Road trip.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
I'm telling you.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Thoughts or feelings on that.
I would love to see the sales.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Let's go for our 30th birthday.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Yes, yes, that's a great idea.
I would love to see the sales,I would love to see the tips, I
would love to see the data.
And is it almost discriminating?
Speaker 1 (08:25):
I was thinking about that.
Is that a to see the data andis it almost discriminating?
I was thinking about that.
Is that a protected class,because aren't you only allowed
to age discriminate over 50?
I don't know.
Is that the rule?
Speaker 2 (08:32):
That seems like a really weird rule.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Like an act of adult communities.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Before we get in trouble, the way you said that
can you only discriminate over50?
There's no discrimination atall.
Let's go to the clear no, I'm.
Can you describe?
Speaker 1 (08:50):
it.
I think you can describe it.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
There was a standard to the description.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
I think legally you could have a bar that's 50 and
over and that's government okaybecause that's a protected class
.
But I don't know that you canhave a bar 30 or over.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
I feel like they had to do their due diligence.
If it's getting that much press, it probably would be shut down
by now.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
It's Ohio, though.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
That is true, and also there could be some state
laws that really protect such athing.
I don't got a legal team but,again, coming from somebody that
can't even get into the bar,but I do hang out with people
that are significantly olderthan I am.
I don't classify myself as this.
Most people that know meclassify myself as this More of
an old soul, so I do actuallylike the idea.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Would you be upset?
You couldn't go.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
No, I would be like I have money that I can bring
here and a great time and I'mnot Horrible mistake.
Yeah, I'm also not going to bea shit show.
I'm very responsible.
I've done all my things when Iwas 21,.
All those years I'm good, soI'm definitely the range of
people that you want in there Ireally.
(09:51):
But at the same time, there'sso many other places.
that's one of those things whereI think it's I like it, because
if you're going out, especiallywhen you're older I mean, 30
isn't old by no means am Isaying that but at the same time
, like you're putting yourself,if you're going to that bar,
especially if you're single,you're not going to be running
into some really young kids andhaving those issues.
(10:12):
So in a, I think it creates abetter environment for something
like that.
So I definitely don't actuallyhate the idea and again I, it
really wouldn't bother me that Icouldn't get in.
I don't.
It takes a lot for me to getupset or bothered, so me not
being able to go into that barwould not upset or bother me.
I would just go to the next one.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
But the bartenders will be crying because they're
really gonna miss out I think aslike a blacksburg guy that
started out in the college I seethis is true here at the lake
yeah, yeah, and this is true atthe lake actually, like there
are so many young women and menthat are 25 and even a little
(10:52):
bit younger, that are solidtippers, great people to have in
the room, and those are theones that evolve into that 30
something crew.
So I feel like it would almostit would have to be.
I don't know.
It's almost like they had somekind of issue with the younger
crowd coming in and they decidedto do that because I truly
(11:13):
enjoy getting a young crowdacross a younger crowd across
the wood because energy, they'vegot jobs, they're out of
college, they're having a goodtime, they want if the better
time they have, the more moneythey're going to throw.
I really I greatly.
I feel like a lot of the barindustry is has existed on the
25 bracket, 25 to 30 bracket.
(11:35):
Kayla, you're a perfect example.
We are all perfect examples ofthis.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
I completely agree.
I will say, even through my 22,even 22 to 29 now at this point
, but really even over the pastyear, I go to bars and drink way
less than I used to.
I'm not spending as much moneyas I used to, but when I used to
spend a ton of money, thebartender was making out just as
(12:00):
much.
So yeah, I feel like you growup through the bars in that era,
because when you're 21, franklyI'm not going to, I wasn't
trying to get into bars likethat anyway.
But when you're out of collegeand you have a job, like you're
going to socialize at bars andyeah, as a bartender too.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
but like I know, Bill , you and I used to do this.
We used to curate our crowd.
Like you can focus on the rightpeople and you can curate the
crowd that comes in to make yourbar what you want your bar to
be, If you bartend withintention and you get the right
people coming in at the righttimes and then it turns into the
bar you want it to turn intoyeah, because two becomes four
people, becomes 10 people andall of a sudden you've got this.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Everybody knows and again it's, it's.
It's been a very broad agebracket.
I'm not hating on this ohio barbecause I can see the whole.
We're over 30, we're gonna goout, we don't have to worry
about kids taking shots andeverything, but honestly, it's
going to go out.
We don't have to worry aboutkids taking shots and everything
but honestly it's kind of partof the bar experience.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Also, I like the idea for the dating scene.
That's, I think, the onlyreason, because it does put
people more in that age range,probably a little bit more
mature, in one space, right?
So you're not having to go weanit out, or does this bar?
What's going to evolve tonight?
Things like that.
You already know the age rangeis going to be in there.
You're 30 and up, you're notmessing around with anything
else.
So I like it for that, but I dothink it's very limiting.
I think it's not a greatlimiting at the same time.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
You need to do some research.
You probably trend to an oldercrowd too right.
It's not necessarily you'regoing to get to 30 years old.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
30 is the minimum, so you probably Because again my
friends, like if they're even 32and 33 and I'm 29, I can't get
into that bar.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
They're not going to go Average age in there is
probably 40, though, or in the40s, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yeah.
So again for the dating scene,I think it's actually beneficial
.
I don't hate the idea of it,but yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
The nightlife scene.
It's like I don't know.
It's very interesting.
I would love to we I'm gonna dowe should do some research
because it's got to be.
It had to be for a solid reason.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
You know, there's a bunch of 21 year olds that are
out for shots and pb, I mean,depends on the district of the
bar too, and adams morgan, whenyou start growing up, I would go
to a 30 and over bar becauseit's pretty much all the bars
are debauchery, or were back inthe day yeah, yeah, it totally
depends, I think, on the areatoo campus I mean like around
(14:23):
here, I guess it.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Just I'm trying to think like in charlotte, I think
actually in charlotte there isone.
My boyfriend and I actuallywent to it and I'm trying to
think.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
I think it's like 25 and over yeah, I can see 25,
that would make sense yeah, I'mtrying to.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
I forget what it's called.
I don't know.
It was a while ago that we went, but it wasn't like super cool,
like it wasn't anything that Iwas like obviously I don't even
remember the name of itmind-blowing no I don't remember
the name of it and I don'tthink I've been back since I can
do charlotte trip sometime.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
That's fun.
Oh yeah, I'll go right now.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
We stayed out till three in the morning we, I was
oh, my god, I was five, I had agreat, I think we walked home
yeah we did there's a lot of wehad a ride offered and I was
like nope, I want to walk, thisis my hood, I'll go right now.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
I mentioned we were getting rides from bartenders
that had already closed the bar.
Yeah, oh, funny it was thatlate at night?
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Oh yeah, I left you guys Sitting outside.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
We were like why are they getting drinks?
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Kayla's land yacht stuck in that parking deck.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
I'm still slightly embarrassed about losing my
temper there.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Remember that we pulled in and so many people
pulled in and there no spaces,so then we were gonna have a
three-point turn and they didn'tleave enough room that is
around it was just gridlock myland yacht.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
That's so funny.
I know literally everyone'slike why do you drive a bus?
And I'm like awesome, nice it'sso nice well it's so nice, but
I was.
It's funny because they're likepeople don't know me.
They're like do you have thekids?
And so nice, but it's funnybecause they're like people that
don't know me.
They're like do you have bigkids?
And I'm like no, just me, Justme, my grain wagon here she's
got a little wagon.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
I mean you got to have the party bus, Somebody got
to have the big ride.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Oh my God, I forgot about that Poor thing.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah, that was funny.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
We got poor thing.
Yeah, that's funny, we got herout.
How about this?
Does anyone still have therestaurant curse happening to
where you order food and it getsbusy?
I haven't been behind the woodin a minute.
That's not true.
I got behind the wood a coupletimes this year, but I swear I'm
at my house like nothing goingon.
I've made this perfect mealsalad, you know.
I've built it up to have alittle snacky snack and the
(16:36):
phone rings up like I'm still inthe restaurant.
Curse to where I cannot eat awarm meal.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Oh, that's funny, it is as soon as you sit down it
happens every week.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
I'm like this is I mean I get the car man.
I'm happy the universe isgiving me what it has from the
restaurant industry which isindigestion, which is.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
I saw a guy like dip around the corner and put as
much blackened chicken pastainto my face as possible in the
shortest amount of time, like wewould just eat so fast.
You wonder why you'd wake up atthree o'clock in the morning
with heartburn.
Yeah, it's 23 years old.
I had an ulcer at 22, frombourbon, and cold cheese fries,
(17:20):
homie meatball subs.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
I saw something the other day.
If you have not split cold deadcheese fries with a co-worker
after a night where nothing hasever gone wrong, you do not
understand the restaurantindustry.
Because we've all sat therelike eating cold mozzarella
sticks, like I'm just gonna eatthese and man have a beer that's
so true.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
The cold beer after a long day I've this corona.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
I've been on the lake all day running around, had
some business, hard life out onthe pond and I haven't had a
beer in a week and I'm like I'mgoing to.
And I opened up the fridge andthere was one corona and limes.
I'd pre-cut and it was lightand, oh, this is the best corona
I've ever had.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
When I was, when I was waiting tables, it was like
immediately after it got offshift, I was like I must have a
beer, I must have a very coldbeer, and by the end of the
shift, like I would see, I'd bepicking up the draft beers to
bring to tables and I'd besalivating.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Yeah, yeah exactly Just holding their beer.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
I want to chug all five of these right now.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
I mean I remember beer bong in the corner.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Oh gosh, I seriously I remember, and I would go
through different phases too, ofwhich beers I would want after
work.
And there was one phase weirdestphase I wanted coors light, but
it had to be the screw off topit couldn't be oil can yeah, it
had to be oh, they're stillamazing, but I crave them and I
(18:56):
didn't want to, I didn't want topop it, I didn't want it in a
bottle it does, oh gosh, and itwould be super cold, and I would
put it in the freezer a littlebit too, so then it would be
like a little bit icy get thosemountains so good I know I went
through a phase where that wasall I wanted navy blue, exactly,
and then of course the otherfive draft beers that would be,
(19:18):
do you?
Speaker 3 (19:18):
know the who was where what.
Because I had no, thecolorblind guy, I had no idea
about this blue can thing andsomebody explained it to me all
the years ago, like way back inthe day, and I'm like what are
you talking about?
They're like the can turns.
I'm like sure it does.
I feel like this was cameron,because he always yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
So you don't, yeah, you don't trust.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
So I just thought it was a big joke.
Literally a month in they'relike regulars who I trusted were
like no bill.
Actually it's it's not cold yetI'm like how do you what?
Are you just making stuff upeverybody against the blind
people?
That's funny, that's funny allright.
Thanks everybody for listeningto the bar ninja podcast.
Check us out online, check usout everywhere, reach out to us
(20:02):
with stories and appreciatey'all.
Bar Ninja.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Yeah, podcast at barninjacom.
If you have anything to tell us, subscribe to the podcast and
your favorite podcast player.
Check out barninjacom for ourbarware.
And yeah, till next time.
Good to have the band backtogether.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Bar Ninja
podcast.
Please be sure to subscribe tous on your favorite podcast
player and join the Bar Ninjanation that has over 7,000
bartenders in it, by going towwwbarninjacom and you can enter
your email till next time.
See you then, thank you.
Hey Bar Ninja Nation.
Welcome to the Bar NinjaPodcast, where we talk about
everything from trials andtribulations, from life behind
the bar to tips and tricks tomake you a better bartender and
a better drinker.
Join your host, Bill Thornton,Kayla Lowe and yours truly, Mike
Garrison.
Let's go have some fucking fun.
I just hit the cold so we canhave our usual cold open how you
guys doing Bar Ninja in thehouse.
(00:21):
I don't think we've ever saidwe're can have our usual cold
open how you guys doing.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Barton Engine to house.
I don't think we've ever saidwe're just going to the cold
open.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
I'll probably edit that out.
I edit about half of what we.
If we record for an hour, thatturns into 25 minutes.
Toby, the guy that wrote theBartender's Manifesto, which is
my favorite bartending book,said yes.
Chad that owns Service Bar saidyes.
And then the media company thatowns a bunch of bars in DC
(00:51):
wants to do it.
So I'm going to tell them yes.
And then the next one I want tointerview Charlie and Trace,
who are bartenders at FoundingFarmers in DC.
Has the craft cocktail?
Has it changed from the purplehooter to having tinctures on
the bar?
and infusions Today.
I thought we'd just fast roundit.
I have two topics.
(01:12):
If you guys have topics youwant to talk about, we can just
roll into it.
Our tipping podcast didn't save, so I thought we'd talk about
that Funny.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I feel like since we actually talked about that, I've
been even weirder about it.
We did really a deep dive intoit and started really talking
about what it's become.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Tip culture and has it gotten out of control.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yeah, and I definitely think it has.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
I think it's got out of control because I worked hard
for the tips serving people andspending time.
There was a guy on Instagramwho went by and he's like, if I
have to pay for my food before Iget it, I'm not tipping.
And then like people in theretail world.
Are we subsidizing the laborcosts for the restaurant?
Yeah, I don't know how I feelabout it completely.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
No, I just think, like with the electronics too, I
just don't trust them.
Every time they give me eventhe little pad, I'm like where
is this tip going?
What is the structure anymore?
Speaker 1 (02:05):
And it happened to me the other day.
The girl reached over andpushed no tip because she was
like we don't get them, theowner keeps them and I'm like,
no, that's not right.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
That's happened.
The guy literally like justpress, he's just pressed, no tip
.
And I was like and he prettymuch did the same thing.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
That's not fair, because that's like almost a
contract or we think we'regiving it to the people and it's
also like along the lines whereit seems like so many
operations are no longer givingcredit card tips.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
They're giving them the paycheck.
You don't get it at the end ofthe night.
It's like all of thesecorporations or businesses are
just trying to manage theirlabor cost by creating all these
revenues or ways of tipping.
It's sketch, super sketch.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah, it's supposed to be a.
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
It's supposed to be a reward for performance, not a
bucket of revenue for the owner.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Well, I feel like it's become that, though, and
that is what's unfortunate,because there's places that are
normal for tipping.
Of course, you go to arestaurant, there's good service
, the standard where we'vealways been used to tipping but
then there's places now whereI'm like why is a gratuity?
Even an option Like itliterally doesn't make any sense
.
I become like very cautious.
Now don't get me wrong.
If I walk into a coffee shopand the person is extremely
(03:12):
pleasant and they made mymorning as I'm getting a cup of
coffee, I'll tip them, but I nowcarry more cash than I even
used to.
For that reason, because I'mlike, even if I wanted to tip
this person, can I?
Because if I'm tipping them outof their good kindness, is the
company owner taking it?
I don't know, but yeah, it'sjust, it's such an it becomes
more stressful and gosh withinflation and everything already
(03:32):
being so expensive and thenalmost being like guilt tripped
until they hand you the pad andthen it's, it's great.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Sometimes it's like 20, 25, 30%, and I'm like yeah,
the minimum is 20.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Cause, I yeah, the minimum is 20.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
And then you feel like an asshole because I'm like
what happened to the basic 15%and all you've done is literally
make me a cup of coffee.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah, that's counter sales, sometimes where it's like
that's crazy.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Well, I'm all about normalizing 20%, no longer the
15% standard, or whatever youcall it.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
But we can't just be like here's your donut, it's
more like when it's for surewhen you're not being served
like counter service isdifferent than being waited on.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yeah, I'm I was sorry and I would just keep talking,
but I would say all three of usare great tippers.
We've all worked in the serviceindustry.
We've all been behind a bar,even if it's not good service on
counter service or being waitedon like I still tip a lot of
times I over tip a hundredpercent like, oh yeah, like I'm
here to think, if I can't affordto go out to eat, if I can't
(04:32):
afford to go out to eat and nottip, well, like I'm just not
going to do it, that's not fair.
So, no, I over tip, but incertain cases, like I there, I'm
just like what am I tipping for?
Speaker 1 (04:43):
and again, where is this?
Yeah, that's the thing I'mbuying groceries.
Why is it asking for a tip?
Speaker 2 (04:48):
because you rang my groceries up.
Isn't that your job not?
Speaker 1 (04:50):
grocery, but like any kind of little store, it seems
like there's either a tip jar orit goes to the gratuity stream.
These days, even in some timein some retail situations I
wonder who started that trend.
I wonder if it was like star Ithink COVID maybe a little bit
pushed it up because you feltbad, because somebody was
working, and then everything wasto go.
It, semi-normalized it, andthen it just stuck.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Also like electronics in general, like everything now
is like on the same, like iPador whatever system, and it's
like even Square.
I'm not by any means have thetechnology background and
advancement, but it's usuallythe same and it's always asking
for the gratuity.
So it's pretty simple to havethat same platform and like, why
not throw it out there?
Because, again, if it's noteven necessarily a place that
(05:37):
would technically collect tips,why wouldn't the owner do it?
Because if they can pull someextra money off and the person's
not getting it, it's not a goodthink, it's terrible, but
that's probably what's going on.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
I don't know if you can go to a sandwich spot now
that doesn't ask for a tip.
Sure, Like anything, Subway,Jersey Mile, like anything, it's
always.
It's just, it's kind of-.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
This is a good opportunity for listeners to
send in their examples of whereand how and when they've noticed
the change.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
And where and how and when they've noticed the change
.
And yeah, it's the tip culturegetting out of control.
I think we could talk differentcase scenarios about this for a
hot minute, because there areplaces, for sure, where tips are
absolutely deserved and theyshould be over tipped and
everything like that.
And then there's other timeswhere you're put in front of a
position where you feel almostguilty by not tipping, because
you're already a good tipper andyou're like well, what am I
(06:24):
doing?
Should I do this?
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
So especially to people like us who just karma is
.
I tip just to throw it back tothe universe because I've made
so much money that way same wefeel obligated.
Obligated so, and I startedrealizing, though.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
I'm like I can't keep tipping for when I'm don't even
know what I'm tipping for, andI'm like this is a lot of money
going I don't know where so nexttopic, fun topic, for a little
speed round.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
There is a bar that just opened that is for 30 or
over.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
It's basically like a millennial bar, yeah it's
getting a lot of press what areyour thoughts on?
Speaker 1 (06:58):
that like no 20 21 year olds that are doing shots
at the bar where's this at?
Speaker 2 (07:04):
where Where's the bar ?
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Was it Colorado?
I can't remember where it was.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
I honestly like that.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
I don't want to say I like it.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Let me go ahead and say, though, I actually, at this
very moment in time, couldn'tget in because I'm only 29.
I wouldn't.
I would show them my ID andthey might let me in.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
I think that therein lies the flaw then because
you're certainly the customerthey want in the building so I
get it, though.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Like also, I feel like 21 year olds.
Now I'm only 29, but gosh, 21year olds look like they're 12
to me.
I'm like what they're drinking?
Why are they drinking?
Speaker 1 (07:38):
they're going to have an alcoholic.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
but exactly I'm like, why do they have an alcoholic
beverage in their hands?
This is not good, Like I go inlike mom mode and I'm not even
30.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
So I don't know, this is a bar in Ohio.
Ohio it's called Donerick's Pub.
It's in Groveport, outside ofColumbus, and so on Friday or
Saturday nights they're going to30 and up, with no exceptions.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Oh, I wouldn't make it Road trip.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
I'm telling you.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Thoughts or feelings on that.
I would love to see the sales.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Let's go for our 30th birthday.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Yes, yes, that's a great idea.
I would love to see the sales,I would love to see the tips, I
would love to see the data.
And is it almost discriminating?
Speaker 1 (08:25):
I was thinking about that.
Is that a to see the data andis it almost discriminating?
I was thinking about that.
Is that a protected class,because aren't you only allowed
to age discriminate over 50?
I don't know.
Is that the rule?
Speaker 2 (08:32):
That seems like a really weird rule.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Like an act of adult communities.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Before we get in trouble, the way you said that
can you only discriminate over50?
There's no discrimination atall.
Let's go to the clear no, I'm.
Can you describe?
Speaker 1 (08:50):
it.
I think you can describe it.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
There was a standard to the description.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
I think legally you could have a bar that's 50 and
over and that's government okaybecause that's a protected class
.
But I don't know that you canhave a bar 30 or over.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
I feel like they had to do their due diligence.
If it's getting that much press, it probably would be shut down
by now.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
It's Ohio, though.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
That is true, and also there could be some state
laws that really protect such athing.
I don't got a legal team but,again, coming from somebody that
can't even get into the bar,but I do hang out with people
that are significantly olderthan I am.
I don't classify myself as this.
Most people that know meclassify myself as this More of
an old soul, so I do actuallylike the idea.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Would you be upset?
You couldn't go.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
No, I would be like I have money that I can bring
here and a great time and I'mnot Horrible mistake.
Yeah, I'm also not going to bea shit show.
I'm very responsible.
I've done all my things when Iwas 21,.
All those years I'm good, soI'm definitely the range of
people that you want in there Ireally.
(09:51):
But at the same time, there'sso many other places.
that's one of those things whereI think it's I like it, because
if you're going out, especiallywhen you're older I mean, 30
isn't old by no means am Isaying that but at the same time
, like you're putting yourself,if you're going to that bar,
especially if you're single,you're not going to be running
into some really young kids andhaving those issues.
(10:12):
So in a, I think it creates abetter environment for something
like that.
So I definitely don't actuallyhate the idea and again I, it
really wouldn't bother me that Icouldn't get in.
I don't.
It takes a lot for me to getupset or bothered, so me not
being able to go into that barwould not upset or bother me.
I would just go to the next one.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
But the bartenders will be crying because they're
really gonna miss out I think aslike a blacksburg guy that
started out in the college I seethis is true here at the lake
yeah, yeah, and this is true atthe lake actually, like there
are so many young women and menthat are 25 and even a little
(10:52):
bit younger, that are solidtippers, great people to have in
the room, and those are theones that evolve into that 30
something crew.
So I feel like it would almostit would have to be.
I don't know.
It's almost like they had somekind of issue with the younger
crowd coming in and they decidedto do that because I truly
(11:13):
enjoy getting a young crowdacross a younger crowd across
the wood because energy, they'vegot jobs, they're out of
college, they're having a goodtime, they want if the better
time they have, the more moneythey're going to throw.
I really I greatly.
I feel like a lot of the barindustry is has existed on the
25 bracket, 25 to 30 bracket.
(11:35):
Kayla, you're a perfect example.
We are all perfect examples ofthis.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
I completely agree.
I will say, even through my 22,even 22 to 29 now at this point
, but really even over the pastyear, I go to bars and drink way
less than I used to.
I'm not spending as much moneyas I used to, but when I used to
spend a ton of money, thebartender was making out just as
(12:00):
much.
So yeah, I feel like you growup through the bars in that era,
because when you're 21, franklyI'm not going to, I wasn't
trying to get into bars likethat anyway.
But when you're out of collegeand you have a job, like you're
going to socialize at bars andyeah, as a bartender too.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
but like I know, Bill , you and I used to do this.
We used to curate our crowd.
Like you can focus on the rightpeople and you can curate the
crowd that comes in to make yourbar what you want your bar to
be, If you bartend withintention and you get the right
people coming in at the righttimes and then it turns into the
bar you want it to turn intoyeah, because two becomes four
people, becomes 10 people andall of a sudden you've got this.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Everybody knows and again it's, it's.
It's been a very broad agebracket.
I'm not hating on this ohio barbecause I can see the whole.
We're over 30, we're gonna goout, we don't have to worry
about kids taking shots andeverything, but honestly, it's
going to go out.
We don't have to worry aboutkids taking shots and everything
but honestly it's kind of partof the bar experience.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Also, I like the idea for the dating scene.
That's, I think, the onlyreason, because it does put
people more in that age range,probably a little bit more
mature, in one space, right?
So you're not having to go weanit out, or does this bar?
What's going to evolve tonight?
Things like that.
You already know the age rangeis going to be in there.
You're 30 and up, you're notmessing around with anything
else.
So I like it for that, but I dothink it's very limiting.
I think it's not a greatlimiting at the same time.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
You need to do some research.
You probably trend to an oldercrowd too right.
It's not necessarily you'regoing to get to 30 years old.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
30 is the minimum, so you probably Because again my
friends, like if they're even 32and 33 and I'm 29, I can't get
into that bar.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
They're not going to go Average age in there is
probably 40, though, or in the40s, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yeah.
So again for the dating scene,I think it's actually beneficial
.
I don't hate the idea of it,but yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
The nightlife scene.
It's like I don't know.
It's very interesting.
I would love to we I'm gonna dowe should do some research
because it's got to be.
It had to be for a solid reason.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
You know, there's a bunch of 21 year olds that are
out for shots and pb, I mean,depends on the district of the
bar too, and adams morgan, whenyou start growing up, I would go
to a 30 and over bar becauseit's pretty much all the bars
are debauchery, or were back inthe day yeah, yeah, it totally
depends, I think, on the areatoo campus I mean like around
(14:23):
here, I guess it.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Just I'm trying to think like in charlotte, I think
actually in charlotte there isone.
My boyfriend and I actuallywent to it and I'm trying to
think.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
I think it's like 25 and over yeah, I can see 25,
that would make sense yeah, I'mtrying to.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
I forget what it's called.
I don't know.
It was a while ago that we went, but it wasn't like super cool,
like it wasn't anything that Iwas like obviously I don't even
remember the name of itmind-blowing no I don't remember
the name of it and I don'tthink I've been back since I can
do charlotte trip sometime.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
That's fun.
Oh yeah, I'll go right now.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
We stayed out till three in the morning we, I was
oh, my god, I was five, I had agreat, I think we walked home
yeah we did there's a lot of wehad a ride offered and I was
like nope, I want to walk, thisis my hood, I'll go right now.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
I mentioned we were getting rides from bartenders
that had already closed the bar.
Yeah, oh, funny it was thatlate at night?
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Oh yeah, I left you guys Sitting outside.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
We were like why are they getting drinks?
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Kayla's land yacht stuck in that parking deck.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
I'm still slightly embarrassed about losing my
temper there.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Remember that we pulled in and so many people
pulled in and there no spaces,so then we were gonna have a
three-point turn and they didn'tleave enough room that is
around it was just gridlock myland yacht.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
That's so funny.
I know literally everyone'slike why do you drive a bus?
And I'm like awesome, nice it'sso nice well it's so nice, but
I was.
It's funny because they're likepeople don't know me.
They're like do you have thekids?
And so nice, but it's funnybecause they're like people that
don't know me.
They're like do you have bigkids?
And I'm like no, just me, Justme, my grain wagon here she's
got a little wagon.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
I mean you got to have the party bus, Somebody got
to have the big ride.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Oh my God, I forgot about that Poor thing.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah, that was funny.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
We got poor thing.
Yeah, that's funny, we got herout.
How about this?
Does anyone still have therestaurant curse happening to
where you order food and it getsbusy?
I haven't been behind the woodin a minute.
That's not true.
I got behind the wood a coupletimes this year, but I swear I'm
at my house like nothing goingon.
I've made this perfect mealsalad, you know.
I've built it up to have alittle snacky snack and the
(16:36):
phone rings up like I'm still inthe restaurant.
Curse to where I cannot eat awarm meal.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Oh, that's funny, it is as soon as you sit down it
happens every week.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
I'm like this is I mean I get the car man.
I'm happy the universe isgiving me what it has from the
restaurant industry which isindigestion, which is.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
I saw a guy like dip around the corner and put as
much blackened chicken pastainto my face as possible in the
shortest amount of time, like wewould just eat so fast.
You wonder why you'd wake up atthree o'clock in the morning
with heartburn.
Yeah, it's 23 years old.
I had an ulcer at 22, frombourbon, and cold cheese fries,
(17:20):
homie meatball subs.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
I saw something the other day.
If you have not split cold deadcheese fries with a co-worker
after a night where nothing hasever gone wrong, you do not
understand the restaurantindustry.
Because we've all sat therelike eating cold mozzarella
sticks, like I'm just gonna eatthese and man have a beer that's
so true.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
The cold beer after a long day I've this corona.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
I've been on the lake all day running around, had
some business, hard life out onthe pond and I haven't had a
beer in a week and I'm like I'mgoing to.
And I opened up the fridge andthere was one corona and limes.
I'd pre-cut and it was lightand, oh, this is the best corona
I've ever had.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
When I was, when I was waiting tables, it was like
immediately after it got offshift, I was like I must have a
beer, I must have a very coldbeer, and by the end of the
shift, like I would see, I'd bepicking up the draft beers to
bring to tables and I'd besalivating.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Yeah, yeah exactly Just holding their beer.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
I want to chug all five of these right now.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
I mean I remember beer bong in the corner.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Oh gosh, I seriously I remember, and I would go
through different phases too, ofwhich beers I would want after
work.
And there was one phase weirdestphase I wanted coors light, but
it had to be the screw off topit couldn't be oil can yeah, it
had to be oh, they're stillamazing, but I crave them and I
(18:56):
didn't want to, I didn't want topop it, I didn't want it in a
bottle it does, oh gosh, and itwould be super cold, and I would
put it in the freezer a littlebit too, so then it would be
like a little bit icy get thosemountains so good I know I went
through a phase where that wasall I wanted navy blue, exactly,
and then of course the otherfive draft beers that would be,
(19:18):
do you?
Speaker 3 (19:18):
know the who was where what.
Because I had no, thecolorblind guy, I had no idea
about this blue can thing andsomebody explained it to me all
the years ago, like way back inthe day, and I'm like what are
you talking about?
They're like the can turns.
I'm like sure it does.
I feel like this was cameron,because he always yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
So you don't, yeah, you don't trust.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
So I just thought it was a big joke.
Literally a month in they'relike regulars who I trusted were
like no bill.
Actually it's it's not cold yetI'm like how do you what?
Are you just making stuff upeverybody against the blind
people?
That's funny, that's funny allright.
Thanks everybody for listeningto the bar ninja podcast.
Check us out online, check usout everywhere, reach out to us
(20:02):
with stories and appreciatey'all.
Bar Ninja.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Yeah, podcast at barninjacom.
If you have anything to tell us, subscribe to the podcast and
your favorite podcast player.
Check out barninjacom for ourbarware.
And yeah, till next time.
Good to have the band backtogether.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Bar Ninja
podcast.
Please be sure to subscribe tous on your favorite podcast
player and join the Bar Ninjanation that has over 7,000
bartenders in it, by going towwwbarninjacom and you can enter
your email till next time.
See you then, thank you.
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