June 18, 2025 • 47 mins
Nestled within the captivating world of collegiate baseball lies an extraordinary tale of transformation. Phil Schallenberger, head coach of Messiah University's baseball program, guides us through his team's remarkable journey from a disheartening 1-7 start to playing for the Division III College World Series championship.
The turning point came not through a strategic overhaul but a profound shift in perspective. After striking out 15 times against the #1 ranked team, Schallenberger embraced honest player feedback that would reshape their season: "Coach, it's not that you're communicating anything wrong—it's that it's being interpreted differently than intended." This vulnerability opened doors to authentic dialogue and a liberating team philosophy centered on purpose beyond outcomes.
Schallenberger reveals how creating a culture where conflict is valued rather than avoided became their secret weapon. "If there's no tension or friction, then you just have people saying yes because they think that's what they're supposed to do," he explains. This environment nurtured a team described by one veteran umpire as "the most unified and selfless team I've seen in 20+ years."
The conversation delves into practical strategies behind Messiah's explosive offense—stealing over 160 bases while breaking school home run records—and how removing fear fostered aggressive yet intelligent baseball. Drawing from his experience with the viral sensation Savannah Bananas, Schallenberger explains how incorporating fun and self-expression actually elevated their competitive edge.
Perhaps most compelling is Schallenberger's evolution from a coach who "hated losing more than loved winning" to one reporters called "the happiest coach I've ever seen lose a baseball game" after their championship defeat. His response? "Our identity truly isn't wrapped up in wins."
Whether you're a coach seeking to transform your program, a player looking to elevate your mental approach, or simply someone who appreciates stories of remarkable turnarounds, this conversation offers wisdom that transcends the diamond. Listen now to discover how surrendering outcomes might be your path to achieving what once seemed impossible.
Creating a culture where honest feedback and authentic communication thrive between coaches and players
• Embracing conflict as necessary for growth rather than something to be avoided
• Shifting from pressure-filled, outcome-focused baseball to playing with freedom and purpose
• Developing an aggressive base-running system that stole over 160 bases while maintaining an 80+% success rate
• Building a multi-dimensional offense that broke school home run records while remaining fundamentally sound
• Learning to surrender outcomes and find identity beyond baseball results
• Applying lessons from coaching with the Savannah Bananas to create an environment where players enjoy the game
• Encouraging players to embrace their personalities while maintaining competitive excellence
Join our podcast weekly for more insights from the best coaches in baseball as we break down the game and share incredible behind-the-scenes stories.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
For most teams starting out the season 1-7
could be an indicator of a longseason.
Not for today's guest.
He didn't just turn the seasonaround.
They played in a Division IIICollege World Series
championship game.
Phil Schallenberger, messiahUniversity, head baseball coach.
Next on Baseball CoachesUnplugged.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Welcome to Baseball Coaches Unplugged with Coach Ken
Carpenter, presented byAthleteOne.
Baseball Coaches Unplugged is apodcast for baseball coaches
With 27 years of high schoolbaseball coaching under his belt
, here to bring you the insidescoop on all things baseball,
from game-winning strategies andpitching secrets to hitting
drills and defensive drills.
We're covering it all.
(00:43):
Whether you're a high schoolcoach, college coach or just a
baseball enthusiast, we'll diveinto the tactics and techniques
that make the difference on andoff the field.
Discover how to build a winningmentality.
Inspire your players and getthem truly bought into your game
philosophy Plus, get the latestinsights on recruiting,
coaching, leadership andcrafting a team culture that
(01:03):
champions productivity andsuccess.
Join Coach every week as hebreaks down the game and shares
incredible behind-the-scenesstories.
Your competitive edge startshere, so check out the show
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On Baseball Coaches Unplugged.
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(02:23):
Today I sit down with DivisionIII National Runner-Up at
Messiah University Head BaseballCoach, phil Schallenberger.
Coach, thanks for taking timeto be on Baseball Coaches
Unplugged.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Absolutely.
Thanks for having me Gettingexcited for this conversation.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Well, when the 2025 season started, if I'd have told
you Messiah University would beplaying in the national
championship game, what wouldyou have said?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
I would have said we have a long, long way to go,
especially if you were to ask methat after our first seven
games.
So I knew we had talent, I knewwe were capable, but I think at
that point we were still tryingto win our first conference
championship in 12 years.
So I would have said that Iwould have not said that that's.
(03:12):
I'd say our odds would havebeen pretty slim at that point.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Well, like you said, you led right into my next
question.
You started the season, Ibelieve, 1-7.
But then you.
What every coach wants is it'show you finish.
And you won, I believe, 22 outof the last 24 before the
national championship.
Can you explain how the teamkind of transformed throughout
(03:39):
the season as it progressed?
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Sure, I think probably where to start would be
at the very, very beginning,even just working into the fall
practice season, um, and at theend, towards the end of the
summer, I actually sat down withour who ended up being our team
captain, uh, jared gordon, whowas our two hitter, second
baseman, and we sat at a coffeeshop, uh, just kind of talking
(04:04):
through like the vision for whatnext year looked like and and
what I needed from him.
And I was like what do you,what do you guys need from me?
And one of the really coolthings we got to do as a team is
we went on a missions trip tothe Dominican Republic and got
to go down there the year prior,and so our focus like really
(04:27):
started to shift there towardslike of glorifying God with
everything that we do in in ourplay and pointing others closer
to him.
And and so I was a littlenervous going into that next
season in terms of knowing wewere really talented, knowing
that we had just broke theschool record for wins the year
prior of where are we going tobe able to keep that same
mindset?
And, um, and we got into theseason and, um, honestly, I
think our mindset was just, itwasn't on that it was.
(04:48):
It was on how do we, how do wewin these baseball games?
How do we go down toChristopher Newport usually a
top 25 team and try to beat themin a three game series?
How do we then go toRandolph-Macon the next week and
play three games against thetop 25 team and then, to top it
off, go play hopkins right afterthat, which is the number one
team in the country at the time?
And, uh, so our schedule was.
(05:09):
I mean, I think that's whatpeople didn't recognize too when
they saw how many losses we hadof how tough or out of
conference schedule actually was.
But, um, we got past.
Like once we finished hopkinswe were, like you said, one in
six or one in seven and and wehad just struck out 15 times in
that game as an offense andthat's one of our things as an
offense of like limiting thestrikeouts and and putting
(05:31):
pressure on defenses.
And, um, on the on the way backfrom that ride, like a little
frustrated, had a goodconversation with it with a
couple players that came to thefront of the bus and just were
chatting a little bit and wejust kind of were trying to
figure out where did we go wrong?
Because we had the same, almostthe same team with some really
good pieces coming in, and itwas where did we need to adjust?
(05:55):
And I actually ended up again,like coffee shop seems to be a
common theme with our guys.
But I met this player at adifferent player at a coffee
shop.
We just sat down and talkedabout, hey, like where are we,
what are we missing?
And uh, one of the things hesaid was coach, I just feel like
it's not that you'recommunicating anything that's
wrong.
It's, it's that it's beinginterpreted in a way that I
don't think you want it to be.
(06:15):
And that was a huge like kindof slap in the face for me of
just because I'm communicatingsomething doesn't mean that it's
being heard the way I want itto.
And knowing that each guy hearssomething a little differently.
And that was like our offensivephilosophy and we didn't want to
get beat deep like in terms ofoffensively wanting to catch the
ball out front.
And I think guys took that aslike, oh, we need to try to like
pull everything and catcheverything out front, and we
(06:37):
ended up getting kind of fooledon off speed pitches, but at
that same time.
It was was we started to grasplike, the idea of, of just this,
the surrender of like, looklike, if our ultimate purpose,
if our outcomes, don't dictateour identity, then why are we so
worried about the outcomes?
And it was we were playingtight, we were playing with like
(06:57):
pressure-filled baseball earlyin the season, like we needed to
match what we did the yearprior and it, honestly, it I
wouldn't even really say thatthat like kind of that release
or monkey off our back cameuntil after we won the
conference championship and thenfrom that point on, it just
felt like there was just likelike somebody just let all of
the tension and air out of theroom right when we won that.
(07:18):
It was like we just startedplaying our best baseball at
that point and, um, seeing thattake place was really cool, but
it wouldn't.
Without those struggles early on, we're not where we're at.
If we weren't playing thosegood teams early on, we wouldn't
have made the turnaround and wemade some adjustments here and
there, but I think the biggestone was just showing up every
day, not so consumed withourselves, or like guys weren't
(07:40):
as consumed with what theirstats were.
It was just like how do we kindof right the ship here and just
play for each other and playfor the glory of God with the
talents he's given us?
So I mean, there's so manystories that lead up to that,
but kind of in a nutshell,that's kind of what it looked
like and I'm sure we'll get intothe weeds of here a little bit
more.
But yeah, it was that roughstart led us to where we got to
(08:03):
at the end of the season, nodoubt.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
But I think what you said there was I think that is
just as critical as anythingelse is when you said you were
able to sit down and one of yourplayers was able to speak to
you and give you some honestfeedback and it may not have
(08:27):
been exactly what you'rethinking you wanted to hear, but
after you hear that, I thinkwhen the team has the ability to
be able to go to the coach andtalk that way, that that really
is a good thing for the teamyeah, I, we say it all the time
like, like, I think people lookat conflict as like it's bad and
it's not.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
If there's no tension or friction, then you just have
all the people that are justsaying yes because they think
that's what they're supposed todo.
We have 40 plus guys.
All of them think differently.
Our assistant coaches thinkdifferently than me and, in fact
, if I'm the smartest person inthe room, then we're probably
not growing as much as we could.
And um, and one of the things,one of the books that was super
(09:09):
impactful for me over the lastcouple of years I read this
probably five or six years ago.
It was called the culture codeby a coil and um, one of the
stories in there was just likePopovich, the way that he led
the Spurs was this openness tolike critique his coaching, like
openness to have conversationsbut it's a two way street too of
(09:31):
the players openness to becritiqued and corrected and be
spurred on and push forward.
And I mean I mean it says itlike iron sharpens iron, like,
like it's a, it's a biblicalprinciple, it's like you're
sharpening each other, like, ifyou're not sharpening each other
, then we're not, then what arewe doing?
And I think sometimes we takeconflict as like offensive, but
(09:52):
usually when we're offended bylike a critique, that means that
we like there's actuallysomething internal that we need
to deal with anyway.
And so for me like I I'm notalways great at it Like there
are times if it's not in theright setting, I get offended at
first, but then I'm able tocome back around to it.
But I think one of the things wetried to create was just an
open, like an open door and anopen policy where it's just like
hey, like I I don't knoweverything, and that
(10:14):
vulnerability piece within ourprogram is so crucial where our
guys know that, like I'm open tohear what their thoughts are.
In fact, like some of the bestthings we've ever done are
because of suggestions thatthey've made.
And I asked them, like hey,what do we need?
And like cause they knowthey're, they're with each other
more than I'm even with them,and so like they're having
conversations in the dorms andlike walking to and from class.
(10:36):
So like if I'm not listening toour players, then I'm not doing
a good job at leading thembecause I'm not knowing what
they need the most.
And that open policy and thatability to come to each other
and work through conflict isactually what makes us better.
A team absent of conflict isusually a team that's not
growing and is stagnant.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Totally agree with you on that one.
Now, it sounds like what yousaid earlier was I wrote a
question out and I said, as acoaching staff, was there a time
when you looked at each other'scoaches and said, well, we got
a chance to make a deep run herein this tournament?
And it sounds like right afteryou won the league title?
(11:19):
Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (11:26):
yeah, I would say that was one of them.
I think I I would still say likeI'm not sure if that's when we
were like man, we could reallymake a huge run here.
Um, there was a, there was apoint throughout the season
where we, um, we played likeseven games in eight days or
eight games in seven days wherelike backed up rain, like played
double headers and we we didn'tthrow like our best arms in
conference that week justbecause like the way it lined up
and we, we didn't throw likeour best arms in conference that
week just because like the wayit lined up and we we won like
(11:49):
seven straight that week and wethrew six different starters.
And I think that's when itstarted clicking for me like wow
, we're, we're actually prettydeep on the mound here that we
have a shot.
But, um, I remember going intothat conference tournament and
we lost the first game, Iactually pretty handedly against
York and kind of sitting athome just like man, like what
(12:09):
are we doing?
Like what's going on, and likeI actually had to, like I was
actually spending some time inprayer of just like is my heart
really in the right place?
We talk about like this ispointing others closer to Christ
and closer to Jesus, like I.
Like I was so worked up aboutthe loss.
I was like, are we really goingto lose again after having a
great season and being first inthe conference?
We showed up the next day withour mentality shifting and we
ended up winning 11-1 and10-something I don't know the
(12:33):
final scores, but won prettyhandedly and moved on.
Then we got to Randolph-Maconand I think our guys were just
genuinely excited.
Our center fielder we got theselaminated pieces of paper that
were basically our credentialsfor the ncaa and you would have
thought that he just had, likewas given like like 10 million
dollars.
Like he was just so excited,like this is the coolest thing
(12:53):
and this is just the attitude oflike gratefulness.
And then we go and we playrandolph macon, who was a team
that we beat once early in theyear, but like they beat us
pretty handedly twice in athree-game series and the game
we won, like our startingpitcher just was like amazing,
we won one, nothing.
So to go down there and we weplay them and we beat them 15,
nothing.
(13:13):
I think that was the first timethat was like, oh, wow, like we
we might be able to, like, makea little bit more of a run and
um.
Then I think we thought wecould and we just every ranked
team we played during the courseof the season early.
We felt like we were right inthose games and just like
something happened late in thosegames that we ended up losing.
Like we were up five, nothingto penn state harrisburg in the
(13:35):
eighth inning and had a reallybad inning and ended up losing
eight, six or something.
And um, salisbury, we spottedhim four runs in the first
inning and ended up losing 6-1early in the season.
And so I think we knew we wereright there, but we just
couldn't figure out how to winthese big games.
And to be able to see us dothat against Randolph-Macon a
(13:56):
really good team, I think was aneye-opener for our guys.
They started to believe and wenever looked back from that
point.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
What would opposing coaches point to and say this is
why Messiah Baseball is sodifficult to beat.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Well, I think just from a standpoint of on the
field, some of the things is wecan win games in different ways.
We stole over 160 bases.
We broke the school recordagain for home runs this year
after breaking it the yearbefore with 60-something, and we
were relentless at the plate.
(14:35):
We get hit by pitches we justscrap out.
We put a lot of balls in play,our strikeouts are low and then
our defense and pitching wouldwin us games.
So we also would bunt at times.
There was a time against.
Like method is where we boughtin three straight times and, um,
that helped us win a game.
We stole third with two outsand the catcher over, threw it
in the left field and scored.
(14:56):
Like that was the winning runthat scored and or the tying run
that scored late in the game,and so I think for us on the
field it was that.
But uh, I think one of theumpires that down the regional
said to our third base coach Ithink this is generally what
makes us tough to beat down thestretch was was like he's like.
I've never seen in my 20 plusyears of umpiring a team more
unified and selfless andgenerally like playing for each
(15:20):
other than this group and for usto like, buy into that vision
of just like.
It's not about me, um, it'sabout pointing others closer to
Christ and then surrenderingsurrendering our, our, our hands
and the outcomes to him andjust going out there and playing
free and doing it for eachother.
Um allowed guys to haveselfless at bats, allowed guys
to walk and allowed guys to buntand just sell out to that and
(15:42):
not feel like they needed to bethe hero and just trust the
person behind them.
They knew if they didn't get ahit, the guy behind them was
going to.
And I think that unity, even inthe midst of conflict, right.
There were games that weretight that our catcher would
come in like Coach I think weneed to make this adjustment or
one of our guys would be likeCoach we should probably bunt in
this situation next time and wewere like there's pushback, but
(16:11):
we were able to work throughthat and stay unified through
that to make us better throughthe stretch.
So, yes, we can win games indifferent ways, but the unity
and the ability just to buy intoshowing up for each other and
the glory of God througheverything we do is, I think,
that what the umpire said aboutbeing the most unified team he's
ever seen is, honestly, whatallowed us to make that deep run
.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Well, in terms of game strategy, what are your
non-negotiables?
What must your team do?
Well, to be a consistent winner.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Yeah, I mean, baseball is such a tricky sport,
right, like you can go out andyou could literally and this is
what I told the guys about howspecial the run was that we made
is, you could literally be thebest team in the country the
entire year, right, like, noteven rankings, but just like,
just play the best baseball andand you could lose the first
game of the like two games inthe regionals and be out because
(16:58):
you had two bad games or madetwo mistakes that cost you the
games.
And but for us it was.
It was our strategy started toshift from focusing on what the
other teams were trying to do tomore about doubling down on
what we were good at and what weneeded to do.
About doubling down on what wewere good at and what we needed
(17:21):
to do.
Um, and for us, like, ouroffensive strategy was like just
being relentless, like, yes,we're going to hit home runs,
but we're not going to, we'renot going to have bad at bats.
Like we're going to, we'regoing to fight, we're going to
foul off pitches, we're going tohave really good at bats and
our shortstop in the worldseries, um, had a really good at
bat and got out, but like itwas like a 14 pitch, a bat that
stretched the pitcher and madehim throw more pitches and, um,
(17:43):
like for us, like it wasdoubling down on what made us
successful as an offense and apitching staff and it was
playing good defense, making thesimple play, it was being
relentless at the plate, notgiving away at bats, um, and it
was being able to like, throwfirst pitch strikes and win the
one one counts and like thoseare some of the things, from a
(18:03):
strategy standpoint, thatallowed us to be successful and
um, like for us to go out thereand be able to execute those
things.
It wasn't like we had to beperfect, it was just hey, these
are the things that we're tryingto do well, but it was.
It was honestly once we stoppedfocusing on what the other team
was doing, trying to do well,but it was.
It was honestly once we stoppedfocusing on what the other team
was doing, trying to do againstus, and just focusing on what
made us successful.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
And doubling down on that is that when we actually
started to make that run well,you mentioned earlier you talked
about, uh, the stolen bases and, uh, I guess just wanted to
kind of get an understandinghere how do you teach
aggressiveness without beingreckless, whether it's on the
base paths, at the plate or inuh game, game, decision making
(18:49):
sure.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
So obviously, with 100 and something 50 something
bags like we're not giving asteel sign on every one of this,
right, like actually veryrarely are we actually telling a
guy to steal.
It's like all in a system thatwe run, it's what we practice,
it's what we do.
We work on base running.
I laugh because our baserunning coach would probably say
this isn't true, but we do tryto work on it 15 to 20 minutes
(19:11):
every practice and there's astretch where, depending on
weather and what we're trying todo that day of practice, that
we don't always get it in, butearly in the season it's
definitely 15 to 20 minutesevery day of working on our
leads and working our jumps andthere's a system that we run
through that.
And I think it's notnecessarily the system that
makes us great at base stealing,but it's the mentality.
(19:31):
And for us it's not yelling atguys or getting on them when
they get thrown out.
It's encouraging them to belike hey, tell me what you saw,
why did you steal there?
And if they can give us areally good answer, be like
awesome, great, because we knowwe're going to get thrown out.
That's part of it, that's partof the running bases.
But our goal is to be low risk,high reward and our goal is to
(19:53):
steal 80% higher and we'vesuccessfully done that every
year, um, and so when a guy getsthrown out and he had a good
jump and it's just a great pitch, a great throw to throw him out
on, it's like we celebrate thatwe, we get excited for them,
like, hey, great jump, like thatwas nothing you did wrong there
, and it's it's taking away thefear of getting thrown out.
I think guys are fearful ofgetting thrown out, which is why
they don't run um and so toteach that we just we throw them
(20:17):
on first base and inner squad.
It's like, all right, you gotto steal within the first two
pitches and like the pitcher andthe catcher know that too.
So it's taken away that, thatfear, like they're just fearful,
like if they steal and getthrown out, sometimes we'll just
put them right back on firstbase and it's just, it's
creating a mentality.
And I think that's a lot ofbaseball is like we look so so
(20:40):
much on mechanical stuff orstrategy, but the the mental
side of just like how do you,how do you take away the fear,
how do you take that away?
Like, and that's one of our maingoals is to play with joy and
and surrender the results.
And just go out there and playwith joy um, because we're
playing for a bigger purpose andthat comes with stealing bases
is being fearless, like and itwas funny because I actually
somebody there was a tweet thatwas put out against hopkins, um,
(21:00):
or endicott, at one of thefirst two games of world series
and it was, it said, messiahjust stole third with two outs,
uh, back-to-back times, and itwas like they fear nobody.
And it was kind of funnybecause like we were an unranked
team and but like that that'sour mentality two outs, we don't
care, we're stealing third base.
It's won us more games thanit's lost us and they know what
type of jumps we're looking for,and so for us that's kind of
(21:22):
what that looks like.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
And I think, just telling your guys that, hey, if
you do make a mistake you're notgoing to get pulled.
They don't have that fear of ifI, if I make a mistake, I'm out
of the lineup right away too.
But that's, that's gotta be apositive for the players, I
would think.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Sure, I mean, I will say to you as a job, as a, as a
coach, that job's gettingtougher the better we get.
Uh, cause we know we have like,for example, there's a player
on our roster, carter Reed, whois going to be like a phenomenal
hitter the next two years forus, um, and didn't get to start
every game but he he was hittingclose to 400 with like four
homers and 30 at-bats and justlike, and we just our lineup was
(22:08):
good enough where he just itwas hard to get him in the
lineup because of positionallywhere he played and our 1DH was
playing pretty well as a seniorand it was just really hard to
like have that patience.
But one of the things that wedo try to do is understand that
baseball is hard and it is.
It is a difficult game andthere are going to be times
where you go oh for four withthree k's and a ground out like
(22:29):
it just sometimes oh for fourwith four k's, right, but that
doesn't define the type ofhitter you're going to be, and
so we look at the whole body ofwork too with that.
But yeah, I mean it is, one ofour goals is to not instill that
fear into guys of like hey, youmake a mistake, you're gonna
get and that's part of thatfreedom of them going out there
freely knowing like hey, like Ican play hard and I can try to
(22:51):
make a big play, make it besmart about it.
Like we tell them, like as weget into the playoffs, like
teams know we run, so they'regonna try to hold us from
running and but our job isalready accomplished because
they know how much we run.
So the pitcher is more focusedon the base runner than they are
executing their pitch, whichgives our hitters better pitches
to hit, and so at the end ofthe day, it's a win-win if, even
(23:12):
if we don't steal, becausepitchers are already worried
about us and I think that'sthat's like the this that they
it's not about stealing bases,it's about scoring runs and
that's our ultimate goal.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
And success definitely leaves clues, that's
for sure.
Well, let me ask you this onehere.
I you know I can't have you onthe podcast and not ask this one
.
I guess you probably know this,but you were on the coaching
staff for the Savannah Bananasand they are the craze around
the country right now.
(23:44):
What was that like, and can youkind of take us, take the
listeners, behind the scenes andkind of share what makes that
whole way of playing baseballand having fun with the crowd,
what makes that so successful?
Speaker 3 (24:04):
I think this is where people sometimes misinterpret
what they're doing.
Those are phenomenal baseballplayers that are playing there,
really good athletes.
It was a little different whenI was there because it was still
part of the Coastal PlainsLeague, so it was still part of
a collegiate summer league andum, but they still, the way I
kind of described it when I wasthere was like hey, when you
(24:25):
step in between those whitelines, like there it's, it's
amazing baseball and um,sometimes like the white lines,
like when you step in, it wasthis would kind of blur into
that, which would still be likeit would free the guys up to
just enjoy it and have fun.
But the way I explained it waslike like an entertainment, like
a kind of like a circus in agood way, outside of the white
lines, where it was just somelike fans were having fun.
(24:47):
The players had fun because ofthat and when I tell you like it
, it was one of the bestorganizations I've ever been a
part of like, uh, jesse andemily cole like just care about
the people that work there.
They care about that.
They truly do care about thefans.
Um, and Tyler Gillum, who's thehe was the head coach when I
was there and um still is thehead coach with them like
(25:08):
phenomenal baseball mind, likehe knows so much about baseball,
um, yet like he understands,like this is this is not.
This is not them trying toreplace baseball, this is them
trying to continue.
I would say the Bananas madebaseball more popular.
You're watching the Piratesgame yesterday and my son's six
(25:29):
years old he was like Dad, arethey playing the Bananas?
Why is there guys wearing theBanana jerseys in the stands?
And I was like, well, because alot of people, people like the
bananas and um, they're a lot offun and like I think that's
what there's just so much joywith the way they go about what
they do.
Um, that is attractive topeople.
(25:49):
It's about the fans, it's notabout the players, and I think
sometimes we can lose sight ofthat, especially in the mlb.
It's like the only reason thereis the mlb is because the fans
are watching, or if there's nofans ever paying to watch or go
to games, like baseball wouldn'texist.
And so, um, man, it was just,it was such an awesome
experience and, um, still reallygood baseball.
(26:11):
But it would be like you wouldsee, like when I was there they
call him dancing deegan, but hewas a pitcher for Kentucky and
he's out there.
He's dancing like in betweeninnings of a choreographed dance
.
He loved doing it when hewasn't pitching, just getting to
see the enjoyment that camefrom that.
But it truly is geared towardsthe fans.
They're so innovative.
(26:33):
They're never stagnant.
They're always trying toimprove what they do.
It's not just like, hey, let'sjust go out there and put on a
show.
They're like, no, let's playreally good baseball while we
put on a show and give, give thecrowd something that's
enjoyable to watch.
And obviously it shows likethey're selling out baseball
like football stadiums right now.
And, um, it's.
It's been really fun.
I got to take my family um to uhto the game in philadelphia
(26:57):
last year and getting to do thatlike and see that on a bigger
scale than even when I was therelike a lot bigger scale than
when I was there.
Um, it was just so much funwatching like and then my son's
trying to do like backflipcatches on the couch and stuff
and and I I think people look atthat like, oh, it's ruining
baseball, but like it's justgenerally trying like guys
(27:18):
having fun and enjoying whatthey're doing and giving like
fans that show up to the gamesomething special to watch and
and just kind of like immersethemselves in in in a show, just
like whenever you gotta go tothe movies, right like you're,
you get lost in that movie.
It's almost like you're in themovie.
It's like that's the experiencethat they're trying to create
and it's fast paced, uh, it's,there's a lot of action and it's
(27:42):
just.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
It's really enjoyable to be a part of now, have you
taken anything that while withthe bananas that you apply to
your team now?
Speaker 3 (27:53):
yeah, I I mean truthfully, like from a from a
social media standpoint too isit's we like we try to.
We have a lot of fun andenjoyment.
And there was somebody that didresearch actually on the
players that played with thebananas versus what they did
with their college teams andlike I'm telling you, like
they're seeing just as good, ifnot better, players in this
league with wooden bats and yettheir stats are better when they
(28:17):
play with the bananas than itis when they go and play with
their college teams because theyand I think some of their
research is just like they'rehaving fun, they're enjoying it.
And the interview I got to dolast night with two players like
one of the things that likeenjoy is one of our pillars.
Like it is the first pillar oflike we want to show up every
day and play with joy and enjoy.
It doesn't mean that we're justgoing out and rolling the balls
(28:38):
out and doing nothing.
Like it means that we we'rewe're finding joy in in the work
that we put in, but we're alsolike just loving the fact we get
to be around each other.
We're enjoying theconversations, we're enjoying
just the what it.
What a game, what the game ofbaseball was meant to be was a
game to have fun and enjoy it.
And we get to utilize that on abigger stage, like we did this
(29:01):
year but also the Bananas do too.
But like taking that justenjoyment about what we do and
just the fun and the environmentand giving our guys freedom to
be who they are.
Heck, we went to Raising Cane'sbefore our first game, like the
day before when we were outthere and they were passing out
all these arm sleeves andheadbands and next thing you
(29:21):
know, all of our guys arerocking, raising Kane's arm
sleeves and stuff as they rollonto the field and just because
they're a bunch of goofballsthat just were okay with being
who they were and enjoying it,like they didn't feel like they
had to play stiff, like they gotto have fun.
And at the end of every infieldoutfield that we do, our
infield coach hits the lastground ball to our shortstop.
(29:42):
He fields it between the legsand flips it like backwards to
our third baseman who catches itand goes between the legs.
And they try to nail a trickplay at the end of every day we
do IO we still did this at theWorld Series Like this isn't
like, just because we're on abigger stage doesn't mean we're
not going to still be who we are.
And so like giving them thatfreedom to go out and practice
(30:04):
and play and, just honestly, welet them try trick plays during
practice.
At times it's enjoyment and ourshortstop actually executed a
behind-the-back bounce pass toour second baseman and turned a
double play in our alumni gamethis year, which I have a video
of.
It was awesome.
But just like.
Those are the things I thinkour guys like, why they love
being here so much.
They get to do things for abigger purpose and glorify god,
(30:26):
but they get.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
They get to do it with enjoyment and fun while
also working hard and gettingbetter yeah, I, I'm convinced,
my best years, when we had themost wins, it seemed like as the
teams that had the most fun,and you know that, uh, you know
whether it was.
Uh, I think one time we had thething called fighting Fridays,
where everybody wore theirfighting neck, neck, you know,
(30:50):
and then they ended up tradingthem off to each other and and
it was just one of those goofythings Cause they, they were in
at one point and then.
But it was just one of thosegoofy things Cause they, they
were in at one point and then.
But every young baseball playerhad a fighting necklace at some
point, you know.
But, um, I, I question that.
I asked every, every coach thatwe bring on hate losing or love
winning.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Uh, uh, I would say it used to be.
I hated losing more than I lovedwinning, and one of our third
baseman, drew Hurst, actuallyanswered this in the interview
the other day and it was almostlike the more we won this year,
the less we cared about winningand we knew for us that winning
(31:34):
was just another way, anotheravenue to allow us to keep
playing another day.
Another way, another avenue toallow us to keep playing another
day.
That's what they were moreconcerned about.
That's why they enjoyed thewins is because they didn't care
about the win itself.
They just didn't care that theygot to be together another day.
That ride home after we lostthe national championship game.
Wisconsin-whitewater is one ofthe best college baseball teams
(31:56):
I've ever went up against.
We lost to them in thechampionship and, don't get me
wrong, we were trying to go outthere and compete and win, but
we got our doors blown off, tosay the least.
But our ride home, you wouldhave thought our guys won the
national championship becausethey got to play until the final
day of the season.
There were only two teams thatgot to do that and we were one
(32:17):
of them, and I will say I usedto hate losing more than I loved
winning, because it was likewinning almost became a relief
and losing was just like manlike well, now what?
Like well, how do we bounceback?
And it was just constantly likefixing things.
Where truthfully it was, it wasafter we lost the first game to
york this year and it's been aslow process.
It wasn't just a one nightthing.
But I'm just like kind ofpraying, like like my heart is
(32:40):
not in the right place, like myjob.
The reason I coach is to helpthese guys like grow closer to
Christ and not find theiridentity in baseball.
Like and that's truly what wedo try to do Like we try to
allow our guys to play withfreedom, because their identity
is not found in how good of abaseball player they are.
And for me, when that was thecase, when winning was a relief
(33:05):
and losing was like the end ofthe world, I knew my identity
was found in winning and losingbaseball games.
And as soon as our lastbaseball game was over, like
throughout this past year, waslike somebody's already looking
to who's going to win next year.
They're already predicting like, all right, who's going to be
the winner next year, likenobody really cares about who
the winner is right now and,like in in two weeks, like
(33:28):
nobody cares about that anymore,and so if we're finding our
identity in that includingmyself, so it's almost like it's
.
For me it's more about thejourney than it is outcomes.
And that question is, I wouldsay used to definitely be,
winning was a relief and losingwas like I hated losing more
than I liked winning.
(33:48):
But I would say now I'm justtrying to be present and embrace
the journey so much more,because when we truly
surrendered our hands to whatGod had in store for us in the
story that he written, it wasjust this freedom, that it was
about the journey.
It wasn't about the outcomes.
And, man, what a coolexperience that was to get to do
(34:08):
that with our guys and see themgrow in that and and know that
they're not going to be definedby how much money they make in
their job when they leavecollege or or how nice of a
house they have or how nice of acar they drive, but it's the
things in life that, like that,we're able to glorify and point
others closer to christ throughthat.
So, um, yeah, I used to be whatI said, but now it's like win
(34:29):
or lose, like I'm the sameperson.
I think one of the one of thethings that said in the
interviews after a pressconference after we lost it was
kind of like it was.
I could feel the tension.
It was the first time we hadlost in the ncaa tournament.
I walked in the, in the videoroom and in the the reporters.
It could feel like tension inthere.
I was like, hey, you guys canloosen up, like it's just a
baseball game.
Like we lost, yes, like wewanted to be like.
(34:49):
And then you could feel likeeverybody just kind of breathed
and somebody made the commentlike well, you're the happiest
coach I've ever seen lose abaseball game and that's because
our identity truly isn'twrapped up in the wins.
Like, yes, we pursue excellencebecause, like, developing
Christian character and pursuingathletic excellence is one.
Like it is one, it's notseparate.
And like we've been given thegifts and the abilities to do
(35:12):
what we do.
So like we want to do it to thebest of our ability, but the
outcome doesn't always go in ourfavor.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
And that doesn't change who we are.
If you could manage one MLBteam from any era, who would it
be and why?
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Yeah, we got to chat about this a little bit
beforehand.
I love diving into locker roomsa little bit, but I think the
group that the Cleveland Indianshad I think that was the 90s
right, my years are probablylike but Tomei and Vizquel and
Bell and the Alomar brothersthere was just this grittiness
(35:53):
but also like really talentedteam.
And as much as I love hittinglike I work with our hitters,
primarily here um, growing up Iwas, I was a and no one else
could hit.
Don't get me wrong.
He's still hit, but like I lovewatching him play defense.
I loved like he.
Like he made flashy plays buthe never tried to be flashy and
(36:14):
but was still seen as one of thebest defensive shortstop of
that era.
And for me, I just found so muchjoy of watching that team play
growing up that they could wingames similar to what we talked
about earlier.
They could win games indifferent ways.
Omar Waskel wasn't driving theball out of the yard 30 times a
(36:34):
year.
Kenny Lofton was one of thefastest guys with fine ways on
base and steal bases.
A year Kenny Lofton was one ofthe fastest guys would find ways
on base and steal bases andthen you'd have your big boppers
like Tomei and Bell coming upand doing that.
So that was fun to watch.
They were just a fun team towatch play and even though they
lost to the Marlins in the WorldSeries, I think one of those
years I wish I could be a partof that team.
(36:57):
But I think also also too,getting to see behind the scenes
a little bit, and I thinkthat's what some of these shows
have done for us.
But getting to see behind thescenes of the red sox team that
that came back from a 3-0deficit to the yankees and like
I don't know the personality ofof of millar, is like well,
somebody I think would have beenso much fun to be in a
(37:18):
clubhouse with um and get tocoach players like that and see
him lead a clubhouse likethrough that Um, that also
probably would be another one Iwould enjoy coaching.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Well, I, I, you know it started up uh this week here
and uh I got to ask who do youthink is going to win the
Division I College World Series?
Speaker 3 (37:43):
So I've got to know Dan over at Murray State.
We're actually on a Bible studytogether and so he's been on
that Bible study.
Also there's a head coachingchat that I'm in that has
Louisville's head coach in thatand I would love to see Murray
State kind of make a run that wedid like kind of a similar boat
(38:04):
, that we are right Like we werethe only unranked team to go
into the Super Regionals and wego and beat Salisbury, the
number eight team, a really goodteam, and we get to the World
Series.
And we not only got to theWorld Series, we got to make a
run to the final game of theseason.
And I would love to see Murraystate to do that.
Do I think they're going to win?
(38:26):
I can't say that I I've doveinto every team as much as I
would like to, because we'vebeen a little busy ourselves
here playing baseball, but upuntil last week.
But I would love to see Murraystate make a run.
Run that would be just what astory that would be to see that,
see a coach like that do whathe's done with a lot less than
what these other teams are doingit with yes, that that would be
(38:47):
phenomenal because it it reallycan't happen in any other.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
You know, college sports like football or
basketball, that would never,ever happen.
But uh, just just to see a teamand a coach like that make that
run, that's what makes it great.
I can remember when my son waslike 11 or 12, we took his
travel team out to Omaha andplayed in a tournament and the
(39:13):
sole purpose for me and I thinkfor a lot of the kids when they
got done with it was the gameswere great that we got to play
in.
But we got tickets to theCollege World Series and that's
when, I think Stony Brook andKent State.
They were in there, you know,and it was really neat to see
teams like that, you know,advance that far in the
(39:34):
tournament.
And that was just.
If you've never been to a gameat Omaha, you got to make that a
bucket list for for anylistener out there or or for
yourself, because it is just aphenomenal experience.
Speaker 3 (39:51):
Yeah, no, that is definitely still one of my
bucket list items.
And having two boys that seemto like baseball as of right now
, seem to like baseball as ofright now, I'd love to, as they
get older, make that my firsttime going, but also their first
time going too.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
So that's definitely a bucket list thing for me to
get out to.
I guess ideally it'd be as ifyou could win that D3 title and
then just jump on a plane andhead out to the D1 world.
That'd be a great thing.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
Oh, exactly, that'd be a pretty nice way to
celebrate.
I'm not sure my wife, that'swhere my wife would love uh us
taking another trip to see morebaseball after just finishing a
seven, six month season.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
But uh, I know the boys and myself would enjoy that
, so yeah, Well, let me finishup with one last question here,
Cause it's it's Friday night andit's after 10 o'clock, and at
the time of this recording here,give me one funny story from
(40:47):
all your years of eithercoaching or playing baseball
that when you look back on that,you know you'll probably be
telling your assistants, ormaybe one day sharing that story
with your own kids.
One day oh man, with your ownkids one day.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
Oh man, give me a second here, because just to
process a lot of stories thathave happened throughout the
years.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
Well, to give you a chance to think of it here,
clint Hurdle was on the podcasta while back and he said they
were playing terrible when hewas coaching the pirates.
And it was like the third orfourth game of the series and
they had lost and and he wasjust like I had enough of it.
He said I'm getting tossed.
And he went out to get tossedand the umpire told him you guys
(41:32):
are playing terrible, I have towatch it.
So you got to watch it, so I'mnot throwing you out that is.
Speaker 3 (41:39):
That's a pretty good one.
Um, man, like, ah, so many, somany different stories, uh, like
that kind of come to mind.
Um, uh, man, I'm trying tothink of a funny one that's not
just like a like your everydayone.
Um, I mean, we have our, ourdugout, our, our players are
pretty unique in terms of whothey are.
(42:00):
I've said they're justgoofballs.
Like they genuinely are just agroup of goofballs who like love
being out there together andjust have a blast doing it.
But I think I'm trying to thinkof something that happened like
in game.
But but for us, like, I thinkone of the one of the funniest
(42:24):
things that that takes placewith our guys that they do
pretty frequently is they.
They actually they play thiscalled like, uh, mafia.
I don't know if you've heardthis or not, but it's basically
they all get fake roles and so,like they're, they're in there,
(42:44):
they just get different roles.
It's almost like a, like a,like a cop game time, like
figure out who's who, withoutthem really knowing um, and just
like um the, the trips that youget to have on a bus, and so
our trip home from the worldseries, um, and I kind of like
blank out a little bit, like I,I kind of like, I kind of like
tune them out a little bit attimes and we're like, pulling
(43:06):
into campus this is a five-hourbus ride, right, like this is a
five-hour bus ride where guysare trying to entertain
themselves and mafia is a gamewhere, like you put your head
down, you close your eyes forlike 60 of the game, and so like
they're, and like we pull inand we're about to pull in and
guys like I heard them justfinish a game and I was like you
guys just like just playanother game.
They're like, oh no, coach,like we've been playing for four
(43:28):
hours straight and like justthe whole bus ride.
They just they're playing,playing that game for four hours
straight and, um, but yeah, I,I that was kind of put me on the
spot there and like, obviously,I think those are the things
that I remember just like, as alike just getting to see our
guys enjoy each other um, andlike, just like some other small
(43:52):
things, like I, I can't tellyou I've and we this is the
first time I've had to cut aroster down to 25 people that
are allowed to dress and thendug out from the NCAA.
But I can't tell you, I've seena player more than one of our
starting pitchers who gotshifted from the 25 man to like
dugout personnel who would like,cause he just started so you
could shift back and forth withthe roster rules.
(44:13):
But I told him he was dugoutpersonnel that day, which is
what they label it it as, andyou would have thought that I
was telling him that, like hewas like newly hired assistant
coach and so, like you know,this is the world series.
He's calling the team up.
He's like coach, I got this, wegot a team huddle here, like in
between innings, and he's likeguys, I'm dug out personnel
today, here's what we're gonnado and just like starts taking
(44:35):
over as a coach, and so I I meanI mean there's so many stories
like that but like just thembeing able to do that and, uh,
have fun with each other, like I, it's hard to pinpoint one
story and I'm sure, like after Iget off this call, I'm going to
be like man, I should have saidthat story, cause that one's
really fun, um, but yeah, Ithink those are all just the
memories that keep coming up forme.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Yeah, I had a player one time that he was in the
dugout with us and he goes andhe just, we always had fun.
And he looked at me.
He goes hey coach, I'm going totake one.
I'm like what do you mean?
I'm going to go out and talk tothe pitcher and then I look
over and the whole bench islaughing.
It's like he set it up, youknow, and I was like he.
(45:17):
Just he up, you know, and I waslike he.
Just he broke the tension and I, you know it was this.
It's stories like that.
You know that it wasn'tsomething that happened on the
field, it was the dugout, mike,for you was the, the bus rides
and stuff.
Those are the things that youknow.
20 years from now, those guysare going to probably remember
more than a certain play duringthe season, that's for sure oh,
(45:38):
100, like I, I just that's whatwe try to tell our guys too.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
Like you, these, the win, like the fact you got to go
on this journey you're nevergoing to forget this.
Like right, like winning allowedyou to, like, have this
experience together, but likethat's not.
What you're going to rememberis the games as much like you're
going to remember moments fromthe games and, but you're going
to remember the moments from thegames that you got to celebrate
with your teammates, or, uh,got to laugh about something
that happened during the game,or got to have the bus ride, or
(46:05):
like, like, talk together as ateam about how we're about to
eat at chipotle for the seventhtime in 10 days or something,
and so like, those are thethings that you're never going
to forget.
Um, and I try to remind guys ofthat and of just how quickly
your time goes as a player andyou are the games are only such
a small portion of of thatexperience you get to have.
(46:27):
Um, it's going to be the, thehours in the weight room.
It's going to be the, the timethat you're you've on the buses
at the late nights after adoubleheader sweep.
Those are the things that younever forget.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
Yes, Well, thanks to 2025 Division III National
Championship runner-up, MessiahUniversity head coach Phil
Schallenberger for taking timeto be on Baseball Coaches
Unplugged.
Thanks a ton Coach.
Speaker 3 (46:55):
No, I appreciate it, ken.
It was a blast just getting toremember some of the things that
took place, and thanks forhaving me on here.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
Today's podcast was powered by the Netting
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That's all for today's show.
Be sure to check us out everyWednesday for new episodes with
(47:24):
some of the best baseballcoaches across the country.
As always, I'm your host, coachKen Carpenter.
Thanks for listening toBaseball Coaches Unplugged.
Thank you.
For most teams starting out the season 1-7
could be an indicator of a longseason.
Not for today's guest.
He didn't just turn the seasonaround.
They played in a Division IIICollege World Series
championship game.
Phil Schallenberger, messiahUniversity, head baseball coach.
Next on Baseball CoachesUnplugged.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Welcome to Baseball Coaches Unplugged with Coach Ken
Carpenter, presented byAthleteOne.
Baseball Coaches Unplugged is apodcast for baseball coaches
With 27 years of high schoolbaseball coaching under his belt
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We're covering it all.
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Whether you're a high schoolcoach, college coach or just a
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Discover how to build a winningmentality.
Inspire your players and getthem truly bought into your game
philosophy Plus, get the latestinsights on recruiting,
coaching, leadership andcrafting a team culture that
(01:03):
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Join Coach every week as hebreaks down the game and shares
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Your competitive edge startshere, so check out the show
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(02:23):
Today I sit down with DivisionIII National Runner-Up at
Messiah University Head BaseballCoach, phil Schallenberger.
Coach, thanks for taking timeto be on Baseball Coaches
Unplugged.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Absolutely.
Thanks for having me Gettingexcited for this conversation.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Well, when the 2025 season started, if I'd have told
you Messiah University would beplaying in the national
championship game, what wouldyou have said?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
I would have said we have a long, long way to go,
especially if you were to ask methat after our first seven
games.
So I knew we had talent, I knewwe were capable, but I think at
that point we were still tryingto win our first conference
championship in 12 years.
So I would have said that Iwould have not said that that's.
(03:12):
I'd say our odds would havebeen pretty slim at that point.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Well, like you said, you led right into my next
question.
You started the season, Ibelieve, 1-7.
But then you.
What every coach wants is it'show you finish.
And you won, I believe, 22 outof the last 24 before the
national championship.
Can you explain how the teamkind of transformed throughout
(03:39):
the season as it progressed?
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Sure, I think probably where to start would be
at the very, very beginning,even just working into the fall
practice season, um, and at theend, towards the end of the
summer, I actually sat down withour who ended up being our team
captain, uh, jared gordon, whowas our two hitter, second
baseman, and we sat at a coffeeshop, uh, just kind of talking
(04:04):
through like the vision for whatnext year looked like and and
what I needed from him.
And I was like what do you,what do you guys need from me?
And one of the really coolthings we got to do as a team is
we went on a missions trip tothe Dominican Republic and got
to go down there the year prior,and so our focus like really
(04:27):
started to shift there towardslike of glorifying God with
everything that we do in in ourplay and pointing others closer
to him.
And and so I was a littlenervous going into that next
season in terms of knowing wewere really talented, knowing
that we had just broke theschool record for wins the year
prior of where are we going tobe able to keep that same
mindset?
And, um, and we got into theseason and, um, honestly, I
think our mindset was just, itwasn't on that it was.
(04:48):
It was on how do we, how do wewin these baseball games?
How do we go down toChristopher Newport usually a
top 25 team and try to beat themin a three game series?
How do we then go toRandolph-Macon the next week and
play three games against thetop 25 team and then, to top it
off, go play hopkins right afterthat, which is the number one
team in the country at the time?
And, uh, so our schedule was.
(05:09):
I mean, I think that's whatpeople didn't recognize too when
they saw how many losses we hadof how tough or out of
conference schedule actually was.
But, um, we got past.
Like once we finished hopkinswe were, like you said, one in
six or one in seven and and wehad just struck out 15 times in
that game as an offense andthat's one of our things as an
offense of like limiting thestrikeouts and and putting
(05:31):
pressure on defenses.
And, um, on the on the way backfrom that ride, like a little
frustrated, had a goodconversation with it with a
couple players that came to thefront of the bus and just were
chatting a little bit and wejust kind of were trying to
figure out where did we go wrong?
Because we had the same, almostthe same team with some really
good pieces coming in, and itwas where did we need to adjust?
(05:55):
And I actually ended up again,like coffee shop seems to be a
common theme with our guys.
But I met this player at adifferent player at a coffee
shop.
We just sat down and talkedabout, hey, like where are we,
what are we missing?
And uh, one of the things hesaid was coach, I just feel like
it's not that you'recommunicating anything that's
wrong.
It's, it's that it's beinginterpreted in a way that I
don't think you want it to be.
(06:15):
And that was a huge like kindof slap in the face for me of
just because I'm communicatingsomething doesn't mean that it's
being heard the way I want itto.
And knowing that each guy hearssomething a little differently.
And that was like our offensivephilosophy and we didn't want to
get beat deep like in terms ofoffensively wanting to catch the
ball out front.
And I think guys took that aslike, oh, we need to try to like
pull everything and catcheverything out front, and we
(06:37):
ended up getting kind of fooledon off speed pitches, but at
that same time.
It was was we started to grasplike, the idea of, of just this,
the surrender of like, looklike, if our ultimate purpose,
if our outcomes, don't dictateour identity, then why are we so
worried about the outcomes?
And it was we were playingtight, we were playing with like
(06:57):
pressure-filled baseball earlyin the season, like we needed to
match what we did the yearprior and it, honestly, it I
wouldn't even really say thatthat like kind of that release
or monkey off our back cameuntil after we won the
conference championship and thenfrom that point on, it just
felt like there was just likelike somebody just let all of
the tension and air out of theroom right when we won that.
(07:18):
It was like we just startedplaying our best baseball at
that point and, um, seeing thattake place was really cool, but
it wouldn't.
Without those struggles early on, we're not where we're at.
If we weren't playing thosegood teams early on, we wouldn't
have made the turnaround and wemade some adjustments here and
there, but I think the biggestone was just showing up every
day, not so consumed withourselves, or like guys weren't
(07:40):
as consumed with what theirstats were.
It was just like how do we kindof right the ship here and just
play for each other and playfor the glory of God with the
talents he's given us?
So I mean, there's so manystories that lead up to that,
but kind of in a nutshell,that's kind of what it looked
like and I'm sure we'll get intothe weeds of here a little bit
more.
But yeah, it was that roughstart led us to where we got to
(08:03):
at the end of the season, nodoubt.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
But I think what you said there was I think that is
just as critical as anythingelse is when you said you were
able to sit down and one of yourplayers was able to speak to
you and give you some honestfeedback and it may not have
(08:27):
been exactly what you'rethinking you wanted to hear, but
after you hear that, I thinkwhen the team has the ability to
be able to go to the coach andtalk that way, that that really
is a good thing for the teamyeah, I, we say it all the time
like, like, I think people lookat conflict as like it's bad and
it's not.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
If there's no tension or friction, then you just have
all the people that are justsaying yes because they think
that's what they're supposed todo.
We have 40 plus guys.
All of them think differently.
Our assistant coaches thinkdifferently than me and, in fact
, if I'm the smartest person inthe room, then we're probably
not growing as much as we could.
And um, and one of the things,one of the books that was super
(09:09):
impactful for me over the lastcouple of years I read this
probably five or six years ago.
It was called the culture codeby a coil and um, one of the
stories in there was just likePopovich, the way that he led
the Spurs was this openness tolike critique his coaching, like
openness to have conversationsbut it's a two way street too of
(09:31):
the players openness to becritiqued and corrected and be
spurred on and push forward.
And I mean I mean it says itlike iron sharpens iron, like,
like it's a, it's a biblicalprinciple, it's like you're
sharpening each other, like, ifyou're not sharpening each other
, then we're not, then what arewe doing?
And I think sometimes we takeconflict as like offensive, but
(09:52):
usually when we're offended bylike a critique, that means that
we like there's actuallysomething internal that we need
to deal with anyway.
And so for me like I I'm notalways great at it Like there
are times if it's not in theright setting, I get offended at
first, but then I'm able tocome back around to it.
But I think one of the things wetried to create was just an
open, like an open door and anopen policy where it's just like
hey, like I I don't knoweverything, and that
(10:14):
vulnerability piece within ourprogram is so crucial where our
guys know that, like I'm open tohear what their thoughts are.
In fact, like some of the bestthings we've ever done are
because of suggestions thatthey've made.
And I asked them, like hey,what do we need?
And like cause they knowthey're, they're with each other
more than I'm even with them,and so like they're having
conversations in the dorms andlike walking to and from class.
(10:36):
So like if I'm not listening toour players, then I'm not doing
a good job at leading thembecause I'm not knowing what
they need the most.
And that open policy and thatability to come to each other
and work through conflict isactually what makes us better.
A team absent of conflict isusually a team that's not
growing and is stagnant.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Totally agree with you on that one.
Now, it sounds like what yousaid earlier was I wrote a
question out and I said, as acoaching staff, was there a time
when you looked at each other'scoaches and said, well, we got
a chance to make a deep run herein this tournament?
And it sounds like right afteryou won the league title?
(11:19):
Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (11:26):
yeah, I would say that was one of them.
I think I I would still say likeI'm not sure if that's when we
were like man, we could reallymake a huge run here.
Um, there was a, there was apoint throughout the season
where we, um, we played likeseven games in eight days or
eight games in seven days wherelike backed up rain, like played
double headers and we we didn'tthrow like our best arms in
conference that week justbecause like the way it lined up
and we, we didn't throw likeour best arms in conference that
week just because like the wayit lined up and we we won like
(11:49):
seven straight that week and wethrew six different starters.
And I think that's when itstarted clicking for me like wow
, we're, we're actually prettydeep on the mound here that we
have a shot.
But, um, I remember going intothat conference tournament and
we lost the first game, Iactually pretty handedly against
York and kind of sitting athome just like man, like what
(12:09):
are we doing?
Like what's going on, and likeI actually had to, like I was
actually spending some time inprayer of just like is my heart
really in the right place?
We talk about like this ispointing others closer to Christ
and closer to Jesus, like I.
Like I was so worked up aboutthe loss.
I was like, are we really goingto lose again after having a
great season and being first inthe conference?
We showed up the next day withour mentality shifting and we
ended up winning 11-1 and10-something I don't know the
(12:33):
final scores, but won prettyhandedly and moved on.
Then we got to Randolph-Maconand I think our guys were just
genuinely excited.
Our center fielder we got theselaminated pieces of paper that
were basically our credentialsfor the ncaa and you would have
thought that he just had, likewas given like like 10 million
dollars.
Like he was just so excited,like this is the coolest thing
(12:53):
and this is just the attitude oflike gratefulness.
And then we go and we playrandolph macon, who was a team
that we beat once early in theyear, but like they beat us
pretty handedly twice in athree-game series and the game
we won, like our startingpitcher just was like amazing,
we won one, nothing.
So to go down there and we weplay them and we beat them 15,
nothing.
(13:13):
I think that was the first timethat was like, oh, wow, like we
we might be able to, like, makea little bit more of a run and
um.
Then I think we thought wecould and we just every ranked
team we played during the courseof the season early.
We felt like we were right inthose games and just like
something happened late in thosegames that we ended up losing.
Like we were up five, nothingto penn state harrisburg in the
(13:35):
eighth inning and had a reallybad inning and ended up losing
eight, six or something.
And um, salisbury, we spottedhim four runs in the first
inning and ended up losing 6-1early in the season.
And so I think we knew we wereright there, but we just
couldn't figure out how to winthese big games.
And to be able to see us dothat against Randolph-Macon a
(13:56):
really good team, I think was aneye-opener for our guys.
They started to believe and wenever looked back from that
point.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
What would opposing coaches point to and say this is
why Messiah Baseball is sodifficult to beat.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Well, I think just from a standpoint of on the
field, some of the things is wecan win games in different ways.
We stole over 160 bases.
We broke the school recordagain for home runs this year
after breaking it the yearbefore with 60-something, and we
were relentless at the plate.
(14:35):
We get hit by pitches we justscrap out.
We put a lot of balls in play,our strikeouts are low and then
our defense and pitching wouldwin us games.
So we also would bunt at times.
There was a time against.
Like method is where we boughtin three straight times and, um,
that helped us win a game.
We stole third with two outsand the catcher over, threw it
in the left field and scored.
(14:56):
Like that was the winning runthat scored and or the tying run
that scored late in the game,and so I think for us on the
field it was that.
But uh, I think one of theumpires that down the regional
said to our third base coach Ithink this is generally what
makes us tough to beat down thestretch was was like he's like.
I've never seen in my 20 plusyears of umpiring a team more
unified and selfless andgenerally like playing for each
(15:20):
other than this group and for usto like, buy into that vision
of just like.
It's not about me, um, it'sabout pointing others closer to
Christ and then surrenderingsurrendering our, our, our hands
and the outcomes to him andjust going out there and playing
free and doing it for eachother.
Um allowed guys to haveselfless at bats, allowed guys
to walk and allowed guys to buntand just sell out to that and
(15:42):
not feel like they needed to bethe hero and just trust the
person behind them.
They knew if they didn't get ahit, the guy behind them was
going to.
And I think that unity, even inthe midst of conflict, right.
There were games that weretight that our catcher would
come in like Coach I think weneed to make this adjustment or
one of our guys would be likeCoach we should probably bunt in
this situation next time and wewere like there's pushback, but
(16:11):
we were able to work throughthat and stay unified through
that to make us better throughthe stretch.
So, yes, we can win games indifferent ways, but the unity
and the ability just to buy intoshowing up for each other and
the glory of God througheverything we do is, I think,
that what the umpire said aboutbeing the most unified team he's
ever seen is, honestly, whatallowed us to make that deep run
.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Well, in terms of game strategy, what are your
non-negotiables?
What must your team do?
Well, to be a consistent winner.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Yeah, I mean, baseball is such a tricky sport,
right, like you can go out andyou could literally and this is
what I told the guys about howspecial the run was that we made
is, you could literally be thebest team in the country the
entire year, right, like, noteven rankings, but just like,
just play the best baseball andand you could lose the first
game of the like two games inthe regionals and be out because
(16:58):
you had two bad games or madetwo mistakes that cost you the
games.
And but for us it was.
It was our strategy started toshift from focusing on what the
other teams were trying to do tomore about doubling down on
what we were good at and what weneeded to do.
About doubling down on what wewere good at and what we needed
(17:21):
to do.
Um, and for us, like, ouroffensive strategy was like just
being relentless, like, yes,we're going to hit home runs,
but we're not going to, we'renot going to have bad at bats.
Like we're going to, we'regoing to fight, we're going to
foul off pitches, we're going tohave really good at bats and
our shortstop in the worldseries, um, had a really good at
bat and got out, but like itwas like a 14 pitch, a bat that
stretched the pitcher and madehim throw more pitches and, um,
(17:43):
like for us, like it wasdoubling down on what made us
successful as an offense and apitching staff and it was
playing good defense, making thesimple play, it was being
relentless at the plate, notgiving away at bats, um, and it
was being able to like, throwfirst pitch strikes and win the
one one counts and like thoseare some of the things, from a
(18:03):
strategy standpoint, thatallowed us to be successful and
um, like for us to go out thereand be able to execute those
things.
It wasn't like we had to beperfect, it was just hey, these
are the things that we're tryingto do well, but it was.
It was honestly once we stoppedfocusing on what the other team
was doing, trying to do well,but it was.
It was honestly once we stoppedfocusing on what the other team
was doing, trying to do againstus, and just focusing on what
made us successful.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
And doubling down on that is that when we actually
started to make that run well,you mentioned earlier you talked
about, uh, the stolen bases and, uh, I guess just wanted to
kind of get an understandinghere how do you teach
aggressiveness without beingreckless, whether it's on the
base paths, at the plate or inuh game, game, decision making
(18:49):
sure.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
So obviously, with 100 and something 50 something
bags like we're not giving asteel sign on every one of this,
right, like actually veryrarely are we actually telling a
guy to steal.
It's like all in a system thatwe run, it's what we practice,
it's what we do.
We work on base running.
I laugh because our baserunning coach would probably say
this isn't true, but we do tryto work on it 15 to 20 minutes
(19:11):
every practice and there's astretch where, depending on
weather and what we're trying todo that day of practice, that
we don't always get it in, butearly in the season it's
definitely 15 to 20 minutesevery day of working on our
leads and working our jumps andthere's a system that we run
through that.
And I think it's notnecessarily the system that
makes us great at base stealing,but it's the mentality.
(19:31):
And for us it's not yelling atguys or getting on them when
they get thrown out.
It's encouraging them to belike hey, tell me what you saw,
why did you steal there?
And if they can give us areally good answer, be like
awesome, great, because we knowwe're going to get thrown out.
That's part of it, that's partof the running bases.
But our goal is to be low risk,high reward and our goal is to
(19:53):
steal 80% higher and we'vesuccessfully done that every
year, um, and so when a guy getsthrown out and he had a good
jump and it's just a great pitch, a great throw to throw him out
on, it's like we celebrate thatwe, we get excited for them,
like, hey, great jump, like thatwas nothing you did wrong there
, and it's it's taking away thefear of getting thrown out.
I think guys are fearful ofgetting thrown out, which is why
they don't run um and so toteach that we just we throw them
(20:17):
on first base and inner squad.
It's like, all right, you gotto steal within the first two
pitches and like the pitcher andthe catcher know that too.
So it's taken away that, thatfear, like they're just fearful,
like if they steal and getthrown out, sometimes we'll just
put them right back on firstbase and it's just, it's
creating a mentality.
And I think that's a lot ofbaseball is like we look so so
(20:40):
much on mechanical stuff orstrategy, but the the mental
side of just like how do you,how do you take away the fear,
how do you take that away?
Like, and that's one of our maingoals is to play with joy and
and surrender the results.
And just go out there and playwith joy um, because we're
playing for a bigger purpose andthat comes with stealing bases
is being fearless, like and itwas funny because I actually
somebody there was a tweet thatwas put out against hopkins, um,
(21:00):
or endicott, at one of thefirst two games of world series
and it was, it said, messiahjust stole third with two outs,
uh, back-to-back times, and itwas like they fear nobody.
And it was kind of funnybecause like we were an unranked
team and but like that that'sour mentality two outs, we don't
care, we're stealing third base.
It's won us more games thanit's lost us and they know what
type of jumps we're looking for,and so for us that's kind of
(21:22):
what that looks like.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
And I think, just telling your guys that, hey, if
you do make a mistake you're notgoing to get pulled.
They don't have that fear of ifI, if I make a mistake, I'm out
of the lineup right away too.
But that's, that's gotta be apositive for the players, I
would think.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Sure, I mean, I will say to you as a job, as a, as a
coach, that job's gettingtougher the better we get.
Uh, cause we know we have like,for example, there's a player
on our roster, carter Reed, whois going to be like a phenomenal
hitter the next two years forus, um, and didn't get to start
every game but he he was hittingclose to 400 with like four
homers and 30 at-bats and justlike, and we just our lineup was
(22:08):
good enough where he just itwas hard to get him in the
lineup because of positionallywhere he played and our 1DH was
playing pretty well as a seniorand it was just really hard to
like have that patience.
But one of the things that wedo try to do is understand that
baseball is hard and it is.
It is a difficult game andthere are going to be times
where you go oh for four withthree k's and a ground out like
(22:29):
it just sometimes oh for fourwith four k's, right, but that
doesn't define the type ofhitter you're going to be, and
so we look at the whole body ofwork too with that.
But yeah, I mean it is, one ofour goals is to not instill that
fear into guys of like hey, youmake a mistake, you're gonna
get and that's part of thatfreedom of them going out there
freely knowing like hey, like Ican play hard and I can try to
(22:51):
make a big play, make it besmart about it.
Like we tell them, like as weget into the playoffs, like
teams know we run, so they'regonna try to hold us from
running and but our job isalready accomplished because
they know how much we run.
So the pitcher is more focusedon the base runner than they are
executing their pitch, whichgives our hitters better pitches
to hit, and so at the end ofthe day, it's a win-win if, even
(23:12):
if we don't steal, becausepitchers are already worried
about us and I think that'sthat's like the this that they
it's not about stealing bases,it's about scoring runs and
that's our ultimate goal.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
And success definitely leaves clues, that's
for sure.
Well, let me ask you this onehere.
I you know I can't have you onthe podcast and not ask this one
.
I guess you probably know this,but you were on the coaching
staff for the Savannah Bananasand they are the craze around
the country right now.
(23:44):
What was that like, and can youkind of take us, take the
listeners, behind the scenes andkind of share what makes that
whole way of playing baseballand having fun with the crowd,
what makes that so successful?
Speaker 3 (24:04):
I think this is where people sometimes misinterpret
what they're doing.
Those are phenomenal baseballplayers that are playing there,
really good athletes.
It was a little different whenI was there because it was still
part of the Coastal PlainsLeague, so it was still part of
a collegiate summer league andum, but they still, the way I
kind of described it when I wasthere was like hey, when you
(24:25):
step in between those whitelines, like there it's, it's
amazing baseball and um,sometimes like the white lines,
like when you step in, it wasthis would kind of blur into
that, which would still be likeit would free the guys up to
just enjoy it and have fun.
But the way I explained it waslike like an entertainment, like
a kind of like a circus in agood way, outside of the white
lines, where it was just somelike fans were having fun.
(24:47):
The players had fun because ofthat and when I tell you like it
, it was one of the bestorganizations I've ever been a
part of like, uh, jesse andemily cole like just care about
the people that work there.
They care about that.
They truly do care about thefans.
Um, and Tyler Gillum, who's thehe was the head coach when I
was there and um still is thehead coach with them like
(25:08):
phenomenal baseball mind, likehe knows so much about baseball,
um, yet like he understands,like this is this is not.
This is not them trying toreplace baseball, this is them
trying to continue.
I would say the Bananas madebaseball more popular.
You're watching the Piratesgame yesterday and my son's six
(25:29):
years old he was like Dad, arethey playing the Bananas?
Why is there guys wearing theBanana jerseys in the stands?
And I was like, well, because alot of people, people like the
bananas and um, they're a lot offun and like I think that's
what there's just so much joywith the way they go about what
they do.
Um, that is attractive topeople.
(25:49):
It's about the fans, it's notabout the players, and I think
sometimes we can lose sight ofthat, especially in the mlb.
It's like the only reason thereis the mlb is because the fans
are watching, or if there's nofans ever paying to watch or go
to games, like baseball wouldn'texist.
And so, um, man, it was just,it was such an awesome
experience and, um, still reallygood baseball.
(26:11):
But it would be like you wouldsee, like when I was there they
call him dancing deegan, but hewas a pitcher for Kentucky and
he's out there.
He's dancing like in betweeninnings of a choreographed dance
.
He loved doing it when hewasn't pitching, just getting to
see the enjoyment that camefrom that.
But it truly is geared towardsthe fans.
They're so innovative.
(26:33):
They're never stagnant.
They're always trying toimprove what they do.
It's not just like, hey, let'sjust go out there and put on a
show.
They're like, no, let's playreally good baseball while we
put on a show and give, give thecrowd something that's
enjoyable to watch.
And obviously it shows likethey're selling out baseball
like football stadiums right now.
And, um, it's.
It's been really fun.
I got to take my family um to uhto the game in philadelphia
(26:57):
last year and getting to do thatlike and see that on a bigger
scale than even when I was therelike a lot bigger scale than
when I was there.
Um, it was just so much funwatching like and then my son's
trying to do like backflipcatches on the couch and stuff
and and I I think people look atthat like, oh, it's ruining
baseball, but like it's justgenerally trying like guys
(27:18):
having fun and enjoying whatthey're doing and giving like
fans that show up to the gamesomething special to watch and
and just kind of like immersethemselves in in in a show, just
like whenever you gotta go tothe movies, right like you're,
you get lost in that movie.
It's almost like you're in themovie.
It's like that's the experiencethat they're trying to create
and it's fast paced, uh, it's,there's a lot of action and it's
(27:42):
just.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
It's really enjoyable to be a part of now, have you
taken anything that while withthe bananas that you apply to
your team now?
Speaker 3 (27:53):
yeah, I I mean truthfully, like from a from a
social media standpoint too isit's we like we try to.
We have a lot of fun andenjoyment.
And there was somebody that didresearch actually on the
players that played with thebananas versus what they did
with their college teams andlike I'm telling you, like
they're seeing just as good, ifnot better, players in this
league with wooden bats and yettheir stats are better when they
(28:17):
play with the bananas than itis when they go and play with
their college teams because theyand I think some of their
research is just like they'rehaving fun, they're enjoying it.
And the interview I got to dolast night with two players like
one of the things that likeenjoy is one of our pillars.
Like it is the first pillar oflike we want to show up every
day and play with joy and enjoy.
It doesn't mean that we're justgoing out and rolling the balls
(28:38):
out and doing nothing.
Like it means that we we'rewe're finding joy in in the work
that we put in, but we're alsolike just loving the fact we get
to be around each other.
We're enjoying theconversations, we're enjoying
just the what it.
What a game, what the game ofbaseball was meant to be was a
game to have fun and enjoy it.
And we get to utilize that on abigger stage, like we did this
(29:01):
year but also the Bananas do too.
But like taking that justenjoyment about what we do and
just the fun and the environmentand giving our guys freedom to
be who they are.
Heck, we went to Raising Cane'sbefore our first game, like the
day before when we were outthere and they were passing out
all these arm sleeves andheadbands and next thing you
(29:21):
know, all of our guys arerocking, raising Kane's arm
sleeves and stuff as they rollonto the field and just because
they're a bunch of goofballsthat just were okay with being
who they were and enjoying it,like they didn't feel like they
had to play stiff, like they gotto have fun.
And at the end of every infieldoutfield that we do, our
infield coach hits the lastground ball to our shortstop.
(29:42):
He fields it between the legsand flips it like backwards to
our third baseman who catches itand goes between the legs.
And they try to nail a trickplay at the end of every day we
do IO we still did this at theWorld Series Like this isn't
like, just because we're on abigger stage doesn't mean we're
not going to still be who we are.
And so like giving them thatfreedom to go out and practice
(30:04):
and play and, just honestly, welet them try trick plays during
practice.
At times it's enjoyment and ourshortstop actually executed a
behind-the-back bounce pass toour second baseman and turned a
double play in our alumni gamethis year, which I have a video
of.
It was awesome.
But just like.
Those are the things I thinkour guys like, why they love
being here so much.
They get to do things for abigger purpose and glorify god,
(30:26):
but they get.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
They get to do it with enjoyment and fun while
also working hard and gettingbetter yeah, I, I'm convinced,
my best years, when we had themost wins, it seemed like as the
teams that had the most fun,and you know that, uh, you know
whether it was.
Uh, I think one time we had thething called fighting Fridays,
where everybody wore theirfighting neck, neck, you know,
(30:50):
and then they ended up tradingthem off to each other and and
it was just one of those goofythings Cause they, they were in
at one point and then.
But it was just one of thosegoofy things Cause they, they
were in at one point and then.
But every young baseball playerhad a fighting necklace at some
point, you know.
But, um, I, I question that.
I asked every, every coach thatwe bring on hate losing or love
winning.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Uh, uh, I would say it used to be.
I hated losing more than I lovedwinning, and one of our third
baseman, drew Hurst, actuallyanswered this in the interview
the other day and it was almostlike the more we won this year,
the less we cared about winningand we knew for us that winning
(31:34):
was just another way, anotheravenue to allow us to keep
playing another day.
Another way, another avenue toallow us to keep playing another
day.
That's what they were moreconcerned about.
That's why they enjoyed thewins is because they didn't care
about the win itself.
They just didn't care that theygot to be together another day.
That ride home after we lostthe national championship game.
Wisconsin-whitewater is one ofthe best college baseball teams
(31:56):
I've ever went up against.
We lost to them in thechampionship and, don't get me
wrong, we were trying to go outthere and compete and win, but
we got our doors blown off, tosay the least.
But our ride home, you wouldhave thought our guys won the
national championship becausethey got to play until the final
day of the season.
There were only two teams thatgot to do that and we were one
(32:17):
of them, and I will say I usedto hate losing more than I loved
winning, because it was likewinning almost became a relief
and losing was just like manlike well, now what?
Like well, how do we bounceback?
And it was just constantly likefixing things.
Where truthfully it was, it wasafter we lost the first game to
york this year and it's been aslow process.
It wasn't just a one nightthing.
But I'm just like kind ofpraying, like like my heart is
(32:40):
not in the right place, like myjob.
The reason I coach is to helpthese guys like grow closer to
Christ and not find theiridentity in baseball.
Like and that's truly what wedo try to do Like we try to
allow our guys to play withfreedom, because their identity
is not found in how good of abaseball player they are.
And for me, when that was thecase, when winning was a relief
(33:05):
and losing was like the end ofthe world, I knew my identity
was found in winning and losingbaseball games.
And as soon as our lastbaseball game was over, like
throughout this past year, waslike somebody's already looking
to who's going to win next year.
They're already predicting like, all right, who's going to be
the winner next year, likenobody really cares about who
the winner is right now and,like in in two weeks, like
(33:28):
nobody cares about that anymore,and so if we're finding our
identity in that includingmyself, so it's almost like it's
.
For me it's more about thejourney than it is outcomes.
And that question is, I wouldsay used to definitely be,
winning was a relief and losingwas like I hated losing more
than I liked winning.
(33:48):
But I would say now I'm justtrying to be present and embrace
the journey so much more,because when we truly
surrendered our hands to whatGod had in store for us in the
story that he written, it wasjust this freedom, that it was
about the journey.
It wasn't about the outcomes.
And, man, what a coolexperience that was to get to do
(34:08):
that with our guys and see themgrow in that and and know that
they're not going to be definedby how much money they make in
their job when they leavecollege or or how nice of a
house they have or how nice of acar they drive, but it's the
things in life that, like that,we're able to glorify and point
others closer to christ throughthat.
So, um, yeah, I used to be whatI said, but now it's like win
(34:29):
or lose, like I'm the sameperson.
I think one of the one of thethings that said in the
interviews after a pressconference after we lost it was
kind of like it was.
I could feel the tension.
It was the first time we hadlost in the ncaa tournament.
I walked in the, in the videoroom and in the the reporters.
It could feel like tension inthere.
I was like, hey, you guys canloosen up, like it's just a
baseball game.
Like we lost, yes, like wewanted to be like.
(34:49):
And then you could feel likeeverybody just kind of breathed
and somebody made the commentlike well, you're the happiest
coach I've ever seen lose abaseball game and that's because
our identity truly isn'twrapped up in the wins.
Like, yes, we pursue excellencebecause, like, developing
Christian character and pursuingathletic excellence is one.
Like it is one, it's notseparate.
And like we've been given thegifts and the abilities to do
(35:12):
what we do.
So like we want to do it to thebest of our ability, but the
outcome doesn't always go in ourfavor.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
And that doesn't change who we are.
If you could manage one MLBteam from any era, who would it
be and why?
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Yeah, we got to chat about this a little bit
beforehand.
I love diving into locker roomsa little bit, but I think the
group that the Cleveland Indianshad I think that was the 90s
right, my years are probablylike but Tomei and Vizquel and
Bell and the Alomar brothersthere was just this grittiness
(35:53):
but also like really talentedteam.
And as much as I love hittinglike I work with our hitters,
primarily here um, growing up Iwas, I was a and no one else
could hit.
Don't get me wrong.
He's still hit, but like I lovewatching him play defense.
I loved like he.
Like he made flashy plays buthe never tried to be flashy and
(36:14):
but was still seen as one of thebest defensive shortstop of
that era.
And for me, I just found so muchjoy of watching that team play
growing up that they could wingames similar to what we talked
about earlier.
They could win games indifferent ways.
Omar Waskel wasn't driving theball out of the yard 30 times a
(36:34):
year.
Kenny Lofton was one of thefastest guys with fine ways on
base and steal bases.
A year Kenny Lofton was one ofthe fastest guys would find ways
on base and steal bases andthen you'd have your big boppers
like Tomei and Bell coming upand doing that.
So that was fun to watch.
They were just a fun team towatch play and even though they
lost to the Marlins in the WorldSeries, I think one of those
years I wish I could be a partof that team.
(36:57):
But I think also also too,getting to see behind the scenes
a little bit, and I thinkthat's what some of these shows
have done for us.
But getting to see behind thescenes of the red sox team that
that came back from a 3-0deficit to the yankees and like
I don't know the personality ofof of millar, is like well,
somebody I think would have beenso much fun to be in a
(37:18):
clubhouse with um and get tocoach players like that and see
him lead a clubhouse likethrough that Um, that also
probably would be another one Iwould enjoy coaching.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Well, I, I, you know it started up uh this week here
and uh I got to ask who do youthink is going to win the
Division I College World Series?
Speaker 3 (37:43):
So I've got to know Dan over at Murray State.
We're actually on a Bible studytogether and so he's been on
that Bible study.
Also there's a head coachingchat that I'm in that has
Louisville's head coach in thatand I would love to see Murray
State kind of make a run that wedid like kind of a similar boat
(38:04):
, that we are right Like we werethe only unranked team to go
into the Super Regionals and wego and beat Salisbury, the
number eight team, a really goodteam, and we get to the World
Series.
And we not only got to theWorld Series, we got to make a
run to the final game of theseason.
And I would love to see Murraystate to do that.
Do I think they're going to win?
(38:26):
I can't say that I I've doveinto every team as much as I
would like to, because we'vebeen a little busy ourselves
here playing baseball, but upuntil last week.
But I would love to see Murraystate make a run.
Run that would be just what astory that would be to see that,
see a coach like that do whathe's done with a lot less than
what these other teams are doingit with yes, that that would be
(38:47):
phenomenal because it it reallycan't happen in any other.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
You know, college sports like football or
basketball, that would never,ever happen.
But uh, just just to see a teamand a coach like that make that
run, that's what makes it great.
I can remember when my son waslike 11 or 12, we took his
travel team out to Omaha andplayed in a tournament and the
(39:13):
sole purpose for me and I thinkfor a lot of the kids when they
got done with it was the gameswere great that we got to play
in.
But we got tickets to theCollege World Series and that's
when, I think Stony Brook andKent State.
They were in there, you know,and it was really neat to see
teams like that, you know,advance that far in the
(39:34):
tournament.
And that was just.
If you've never been to a gameat Omaha, you got to make that a
bucket list for for anylistener out there or or for
yourself, because it is just aphenomenal experience.
Speaker 3 (39:51):
Yeah, no, that is definitely still one of my
bucket list items.
And having two boys that seemto like baseball as of right now
, seem to like baseball as ofright now, I'd love to, as they
get older, make that my firsttime going, but also their first
time going too.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
So that's definitely a bucket list thing for me to
get out to.
I guess ideally it'd be as ifyou could win that D3 title and
then just jump on a plane andhead out to the D1 world.
That'd be a great thing.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
Oh, exactly, that'd be a pretty nice way to
celebrate.
I'm not sure my wife, that'swhere my wife would love uh us
taking another trip to see morebaseball after just finishing a
seven, six month season.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
But uh, I know the boys and myself would enjoy that
, so yeah, Well, let me finishup with one last question here,
Cause it's it's Friday night andit's after 10 o'clock, and at
the time of this recording here,give me one funny story from
(40:47):
all your years of eithercoaching or playing baseball
that when you look back on that,you know you'll probably be
telling your assistants, ormaybe one day sharing that story
with your own kids.
One day oh man, with your ownkids one day.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
Oh man, give me a second here, because just to
process a lot of stories thathave happened throughout the
years.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
Well, to give you a chance to think of it here,
clint Hurdle was on the podcasta while back and he said they
were playing terrible when hewas coaching the pirates.
And it was like the third orfourth game of the series and
they had lost and and he wasjust like I had enough of it.
He said I'm getting tossed.
And he went out to get tossedand the umpire told him you guys
(41:32):
are playing terrible, I have towatch it.
So you got to watch it, so I'mnot throwing you out that is.
Speaker 3 (41:39):
That's a pretty good one.
Um, man, like, ah, so many, somany different stories, uh, like
that kind of come to mind.
Um, uh, man, I'm trying tothink of a funny one that's not
just like a like your everydayone.
Um, I mean, we have our, ourdugout, our, our players are
pretty unique in terms of whothey are.
(42:00):
I've said they're justgoofballs.
Like they genuinely are just agroup of goofballs who like love
being out there together andjust have a blast doing it.
But I think I'm trying to thinkof something that happened like
in game.
But but for us, like, I thinkone of the one of the funniest
(42:24):
things that that takes placewith our guys that they do
pretty frequently is they.
They actually they play thiscalled like, uh, mafia.
I don't know if you've heardthis or not, but it's basically
they all get fake roles and so,like they're, they're in there,
(42:44):
they just get different roles.
It's almost like a, like a,like a cop game time, like
figure out who's who, withoutthem really knowing um, and just
like um the, the trips that youget to have on a bus, and so
our trip home from the worldseries, um, and I kind of like
blank out a little bit, like I,I kind of like, I kind of like
tune them out a little bit attimes and we're like, pulling
(43:06):
into campus this is a five-hourbus ride, right, like this is a
five-hour bus ride where guysare trying to entertain
themselves and mafia is a gamewhere, like you put your head
down, you close your eyes forlike 60 of the game, and so like
they're, and like we pull inand we're about to pull in and
guys like I heard them justfinish a game and I was like you
guys just like just playanother game.
They're like, oh no, coach,like we've been playing for four
(43:28):
hours straight and like justthe whole bus ride.
They just they're playing,playing that game for four hours
straight and, um, but yeah, I,I that was kind of put me on the
spot there and like, obviously,I think those are the things
that I remember just like, as alike just getting to see our
guys enjoy each other um, andlike, just like some other small
(43:52):
things, like I, I can't tellyou I've and we this is the
first time I've had to cut aroster down to 25 people that
are allowed to dress and thendug out from the NCAA.
But I can't tell you, I've seena player more than one of our
starting pitchers who gotshifted from the 25 man to like
dugout personnel who would like,cause he just started so you
could shift back and forth withthe roster rules.
(44:13):
But I told him he was dugoutpersonnel that day, which is
what they label it it as, andyou would have thought that I
was telling him that, like hewas like newly hired assistant
coach and so, like you know,this is the world series.
He's calling the team up.
He's like coach, I got this, wegot a team huddle here, like in
between innings, and he's likeguys, I'm dug out personnel
today, here's what we're gonnado and just like starts taking
(44:35):
over as a coach, and so I I meanI mean there's so many stories
like that but like just thembeing able to do that and, uh,
have fun with each other, like I, it's hard to pinpoint one
story and I'm sure, like after Iget off this call, I'm going to
be like man, I should have saidthat story, cause that one's
really fun, um, but yeah, Ithink those are all just the
memories that keep coming up forme.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Yeah, I had a player one time that he was in the
dugout with us and he goes andhe just, we always had fun.
And he looked at me.
He goes hey coach, I'm going totake one.
I'm like what do you mean?
I'm going to go out and talk tothe pitcher and then I look
over and the whole bench islaughing.
It's like he set it up, youknow, and I was like he.
(45:17):
Just he up, you know, and I waslike he.
Just he broke the tension and I, you know it was this.
It's stories like that.
You know that it wasn'tsomething that happened on the
field, it was the dugout, mike,for you was the, the bus rides
and stuff.
Those are the things that youknow.
20 years from now, those guysare going to probably remember
more than a certain play duringthe season, that's for sure oh,
(45:38):
100, like I, I just that's whatwe try to tell our guys too.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
Like you, these, the win, like the fact you got to go
on this journey you're nevergoing to forget this.
Like right, like winning allowedyou to, like, have this
experience together, but likethat's not.
What you're going to rememberis the games as much like you're
going to remember moments fromthe games and, but you're going
to remember the moments from thegames that you got to celebrate
with your teammates, or, uh,got to laugh about something
that happened during the game,or got to have the bus ride, or
(46:05):
like, like, talk together as ateam about how we're about to
eat at chipotle for the seventhtime in 10 days or something,
and so like, those are thethings that you're never going
to forget.
Um, and I try to remind guys ofthat and of just how quickly
your time goes as a player andyou are the games are only such
a small portion of of thatexperience you get to have.
(46:27):
Um, it's going to be the, thehours in the weight room.
It's going to be the, the timethat you're you've on the buses
at the late nights after adoubleheader sweep.
Those are the things that younever forget.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
Yes, Well, thanks to 2025 Division III National
Championship runner-up, MessiahUniversity head coach Phil
Schallenberger for taking timeto be on Baseball Coaches
Unplugged.
Thanks a ton Coach.
Speaker 3 (46:55):
No, I appreciate it, ken.
It was a blast just getting toremember some of the things that
took place, and thanks forhaving me on here.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
Today's podcast was powered by the Netting
Professionals, improvingprograms one facility at a time.
Contact them today at844-620-2707, or visit them
online at wwwnettingproscom ifyou want to have your field
looking its best.
That's all for today's show.
Be sure to check us out everyWednesday for new episodes with
(47:24):
some of the best baseballcoaches across the country.
As always, I'm your host, coachKen Carpenter.
Thanks for listening toBaseball Coaches Unplugged.
Thank you.
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