May 28, 2025 • 32 mins
The journey to a state baseball championship begins with preparation long before the tournament starts. Coach Al Zeiher of Saline High School in Michigan joins us to share his championship philosophy as his team readies for the playoff gauntlet.
We dive deep into Michigan's fascinating tournament format where matchups are determined by a random draw—athletic directors literally pulling popsicle sticks from a hat—with no seeding system whatsoever. This creates scenarios where top-ranked teams might face each other in the first round, making mental preparation and competitive mindset crucial from game one.
Coach Zeiher reveals what truly separates championship teams when raw talent is removed from the equation. "Tough culture. Guys that can handle pressure. They stick together as a team," he explains. The conversation explores how creating player-led teams with strong senior leadership builds programs capable of performing under pressure when everything is on the line.
Perhaps most compelling is Zeiher's perspective on failure. "Hate losing or love winning?" When asked this question, his answer reveals volumes about his coaching philosophy: "Hate losing... because losing forces you to grow." He describes how sometimes winning can mask problems while losses demand honest assessment and improvement—a mindset that has helped build his successful program.
Whether you're a coach preparing for your own tournament run or a baseball enthusiast interested in championship mentality, this episode delivers practical insights on developing competitive players who execute when it matters most. Join us for a masterclass in tournament preparation, team culture, and the little things that lead to championship success.
Join the Baseball Coaches Unplugged podcast where an experienced baseball coach delves into the world of high school and travel baseball, offering insights on high school baseball coaching, leadership skills, hitting skills, pitching strategy, defensive skills, and overall baseball strategy, while also covering high school and college baseball, recruiting tips, youth and travel baseball, and fostering a winning mentality and attitude in baseball players through strong baseball leadership and mentality.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
While some are finished up with their high
school baseball state tournament, others are gearing up for the
start of what you prepare forall season a chance to win a
state title.
Today I'm joined by the highlysuccessful Saline Michigan high
school head baseball coach, alZier, to discuss playing your
best, going into the tournament,having a competitive edge, and
(00:24):
why doing the little thingsmight lead to a state
championship Next on BaseballCoaches Unplugged.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Welcome to Baseball Coaches Unplugged with Coach Ken
Carpenter, presented byAthleteOne.
Baseball Coaches Unplugged is apodcast for baseball coaches,
with 27 years of high schoolbaseball coaching under his belt
, here to bring you the insidescoop on all things baseball,
from game-winning strategies andpitching secrets to hitting
drills and defensive drills.
We're covering it all.
(00:52):
Whether you're a high schoolcoach, college coach or just a
baseball enthusiast, we'll diveinto the tactics and techniques
that make the difference on andoff the field.
Discover how to build a winningmentality.
Inspire your players and getthem truly bought into your game
philosophy Plus, get the latestinsights on recruiting,
coaching, leadership andcrafting a team culture that
(01:13):
champions productivity andsuccess.
Join Coach every week as hebreaks down the game and shares
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Your competitive edge startshere, so check out the show
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Hello and welcome to BaseballCoaches Unplugged.
I'm your host, coach KenCarpenter.
Don't forget to hit thesubscribe button If you get a
(02:33):
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Rate and review the show.
It helps us to grow the show.
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We have over 100 episodes andthree seasons of sit-downs with
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baseball around the country.
Now to my interview with SalineHigh School head baseball coach
(02:56):
in Michigan, al Zeyer Coach.
Thanks for taking time to be onthe show.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Thanks for having me Coach, Appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Coach, thanks for taking time to be on the show.
Thanks for having me, coach,appreciate it.
Well, this is the time of theyear when you want your team to
be playing their best, are?
Speaker 3 (03:13):
you ready to make a deep run?
That's the goal.
That's the goal is get readyfor playoff baseball here.
We kind of got Memorial Dayhere to recharge and then our
district playoffs start nextweekend.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Let me ask you this Are you in your state?
Do you guys do singleelimination tournament or?
Speaker 3 (03:41):
do you do a two out of three or how do you guys do
it?
Yeah, so our tournament issingle elimination.
Uh, it is.
There is there's no seating,there's no point system.
It is, uh, predetermineddistricts where there is a
random draw, where athleticdirectors pick popsicle sticks
(04:02):
out of a hat and wherever yourname falls, that's what time
you're playing, that's whoyou're playing, and so,
fortunately, this year we didnot draw the pre-district, which
is kind of the game on Tuesday.
So there's a game Tuesday thento get into the district, you
got to win that game.
(04:23):
So, fortunately, this year wedid not draw that pre-district
game and um, so so, yeah, thenwe play at uh 10 on Saturday.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
So you're telling me that the two top teams could
play each other right off theright off the bat?
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Right off the bat.
Yes, and that happens.
And what's crazy too is you canhave two top five teams in the
state be in the same districtand play before even the
district championship, becausethe districts are predetermined,
(05:02):
there's no seating, there's nopoints.
So, for example, last year wehad a district that had three
teams that had won 25 games.
This year we kind of cross overwith a district that's got five
teams who've all been ranked inthe top 25.
(05:24):
That will meet even before aregion, and so sometimes with
that you can have a harder firstgame than it would be second
and third and fourth game.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
That's wild.
I can't believe that.
It's complete opposite here inOhio.
So well, you need to have acompetitive edge going into this
tournament.
Talk about how having acompetitive edge helps a player
to become better.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
That's a great.
You know that's a.
That's a great point, coach, um, a competitive edge and we've
talked about this this week islike a, a commitment and intent
to try and win each pitch.
I'm, I'm watching, um, I'mwatching, uh, watching college
(06:27):
games this weekend and I'mseeing that the better team they
take advantage of when otherteams make mistakes and there's
just like they make you pay forit If you make an error, if your
freebie guys in an inning, theymake you pay and on the flip
(06:48):
side, the better team that makesa mistake.
It doesn't compound, it doesn'tgo to the next one, the next one
, it's an isolated incidentbecause we've been talking a lot
about.
You know what's the quality ofour outs, what do they look like
(07:08):
?
You know you make 21 of them.
What are the quality?
What, situationally,offensively, are you doing to
really pressure the defense?
And so, to do that, you have tohave a willingness and an
intent pitch to pitch.
You can't in the playoffs, youknow you can't wait till the end
or just the beginning.
It's got to be a sense ofurgency right from the shoot.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Right, and you know the little things matter.
And you know simple things likehitting the cutoff or moving
the runner over when he's onsecond base, or, you know, just
getting a sack blunt down orlimiting free bases.
To me it's almost like if youcan do that, you've increased
(07:52):
your chances tremendously, ifyou cut down on the little
mistakes, and that gives you abetter opportunity to win.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Yeah, it's like you know, in a playoff game you may
only get six or seven hits.
So how efficient then, ifyou're getting a hit in, any can
your offense be with?
With um, with your outs, withyour bonds, with your run game,
with a dirt ball read, trying to.
You know, steal 90 feet, it'sum, you know how efficient can
(08:26):
you be doing those things and um, I'd like to think that
preparation, whether that be inthe winter, um, when you're,
when you're in the gym or, uh,you know, going through going
through the preseason work orgoing through games, you prepare
for that.
But being single elimination,there's a lot of variance and
(08:56):
the hope is that having thatsense of urgency from pitch
number one, hopefully it goesyour way- A guy I started out
coaching with back in I want tosay 97, 98, a friend of mine and
he's been a.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Him and his brother have been guests on the podcast.
It's Rick Weaver, the headcoach at Defiance High School
here in Ohio and they'retraditionally always a great
team and I believe they wereranked number one in the state
of Ohio and, opposite of whatyou guys do in Michigan, the top
(09:33):
seed gets to be the top seedand it's like a traditional
bracket and they ran into apitcher that was on and they got
upset in the sectionals thisweek.
That's the nature of the gameIn baseball.
Anything can happen.
(09:53):
When you've got a better teamat tournament time, like you
guys are having a really goodseason, how do you get your team
to focus on that?
One game, one pitch at a timementality.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
That's a really good question, because it's hard and
we've found this in the pastwhere sometimes when you get
your draw, you kind of canoverlook an opponent, and so
(10:29):
trying to get our guys to take alook at like, hey, everything
matters, you're playing againstthe game, you're not playing
against the opponent matters.
Uh, you're playing against thegame, you're not playing against
the opponent.
And and right, there are dayswhere it just it just doesn't go
(10:49):
your way.
But the idea is and we tried todo this um in 23, when um kind
of did some different thingsculturally is like everything
matters.
Uh, we've got to have this likewin now mentality, and it's not
something like, well, shoot,all of a sudden we're just gonna
(11:11):
flip it on.
Well, it's playoff time, we'rejust all of a sudden, we're just
gonna flip the switch and we'regonna go out at 10 am and we're
just gonna flip the switch andit's all going to come together.
That's not really how it works.
So this idea that you know assoon as you get to school that
that that switch has got to goon, you got to be that same dude
(11:33):
, and that you are at seven 50in English, that you are out at
3 PM at practice and it and, andyou're going through your
warmup, uh, for the game.
You're the same guy that youwere when you were in January,
when you were in the weight roomor you were going taking notes
in nutrition or you were tryingto lead your team in a challenge
(11:57):
in the offseason.
You don't have to change whoyou are.
You're kind of the same guy andrealizing that hopefully the
situations that we put you in asa coach has weathered you to be
comfortable, beinguncomfortable and trying, as a
(12:19):
coach, trying to put them in asmany of those situations as we
can and hopefully then, when theplayoffs come, that all pays
off.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Well, if you were to remove talent from the game here
in high school baseball?
What separates the good teamsfrom the great teams?
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Tough culture.
Guys that can handle pressure.
They stick together as a team.
Guys that are committed to playteam baseball.
They're committed that they'reunselfish.
When it comes down to it, ifthey're asked to get the bunt
(13:03):
down with two strikes, theycompete and they move the
baseball.
They're not just looking, youknow, for the reward.
It's a team reward.
The team that ultimately winsis going to have the most guys
that are showcased as you keepgoing.
(13:25):
In the state tournament andawards at the end of the season,
players are recognized that areon great teams.
So if we can buy into that, Ithink you can separate.
But yeah, I think you know it'ssomething that, as a coach, I'm
(13:49):
constantly trying, because Ithink we have a talented group,
group and trying to get them togel together and work as one
versus just individually.
I think is that big challengeas a coach is to create that
(14:12):
environment, whether it be inthe offseason or throughout the
season, that really promotesthat.
I think that can be a bigseparator.
And then you've just got a bunchof guys who love tough
situations.
I'm watching a kid from TexasA&M who broke his stinking hand
(14:34):
and he gets a pin in his handbefore that uh that morning and
he goes out and he competes forhis team against the number one
team in the country and he'she's wincing every swing and he
drove.
He drove in two of their runs.
I mean, that's, that'stoughness.
That's a guy who's laying it onthe line for his team.
(14:54):
That's what.
Trying to get nine of thoseguys out on the field.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Well, fear of failure is something that high school
players struggle with, and whatsteps do you take with your
players to learn from pastfailures, whether it be earlier
in the game or two games ago,and how do you to to not dwell
on past failures?
Speaker 3 (15:22):
That's, uh, that's that.
That's a really good question,I think.
Um, one of the one of thepieces that that I'll look to is
, like you know, we got 24 guyson our roster.
(15:46):
Nine or ten guys play,depending on if we're going to
run a DH, and so, whether you'rereally upset with yourself or
you're not, you owe it to theother 14 guys in the dugout to
still go give everything you gotyour body language, your energy
(16:07):
.
They're going to feed off ofthat.
So, as soon as maybe you have ahard, maybe you come in and and,
yeah, it's okay to be upset,but you can't bring others with
you, and then somebody else hasgot to be there to pick you up,
whether that be a coach or aplayer, and say, hey, look, I'm
(16:28):
going to pick you up here, I'mgoing to pull the rope for you,
I'm going to pull for you andeven though you didn't, I trust
my teammate enough.
Through all the work that we'vedone, all the time we've put in
, I know my teammate's going topick me up, and getting there is
a lot easier than what I justsaid.
It's really hard, and so tryingto point it out, get players to
(16:54):
see that is something that wetry to do, but again, it's
easier.
It's easier said than done.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Well you, you just mentioned 24 players on your
roster.
Yeah, what steps do you take toensure players and parents have
a clear understanding of whattheir role is on the team?
Parents?
Speaker 3 (17:20):
have a clear understanding of what their role
is on the team.
So we meet with each playerbefore the season and we say,
hey, this is what we envisionfor you, this is what we see.
And Sometimes it's like, hey, areally good season would be
(17:43):
Five innings for you pitched.
But we feel like, throughpractice and development, we
feel like if you take theNecessary steps, you could
Really help us.
As a senior, you know, of those24, we have three guys, you know
, bullpen catchers and andmanagers.
(18:06):
We've had managers in the past.
We've said, hey, we primarilysee your role as a base runner,
trying to lay crystal clear whatthat role is, and say, hey,
look, if this isn't okay, if youkind of envision something else
(18:27):
, then that's okay.
We understand that it's not foryou, but you need to make sure
you go home and tell yourparents, lay out what that role
is.
And then, um, if, if, if,you're all in, then then we're
all in with you.
And um, and then, and thenduring the season, kind of try
(18:48):
and over-communicate with, withum what those roles are and how
they evolve and and what's kindof happening, happening, why
different decisions are made.
Trying to over-communicate withthose guys, and it's definitely
something that I've had to getbetter at over the years and so
(19:11):
constantly trying to work atthat, especially as assistants,
with guys in different positiongroups and making sure that it's
clear like, hey, this is ouridentity, this is what gets you
in the lineup, being crystalclear about those things and
what that looks like.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Okay, rank these four categories in order of
importance with your teamPitching defense, offense and
team culture.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Number one for me is culture.
I think with I played at SpringArbor University in college I
played under Sam Riggleman,who's won 1,000 games.
(20:10):
He's a Hall of Famer.
He's somebody who I greatlyadmire.
In high school I played underScott Tyson, who's a Hall of
famer in our state.
To, again, guys that I reallylook up to and I think being at
all the teams, the really goodteams that I was on, the teams
(20:33):
where team chemistry and teamculture was your MVP, those were
the teams that always did thebest, Regardless of how talented
we were as an offense or adefense, as a pitching staff.
When team culture and team wasthe MVP of the team and
everybody was a part of it,those were the teams that did
(21:05):
the best.
And so I've tried to do thatmyself with our teams and having
player-led teams with reallystrong leaders, senior leaders
and promoting great culture,those are the teams that do the
best.
Do I have to rank the otherthree?
After that Pitching, defenseand all of that?
(21:29):
Man, I think pitching anddefense always gives you a
chance to win, and thensituational hitting, Pitching
and defense is limiting 90 feet.
If you've got guys that buyinto your system and are willing
to throw it over the plate andcan throw and catch at a high
level, I think you can win a lotof high school baseball games.
(21:53):
And if you can situationallyhit, you can win a lot of games.
If you can have an offense thatcan bunt but can also play
station to station, you've got areally good chance to win.
But I think it all starts withthat culture buying into the
same objective and how you do it.
(22:14):
That's number one.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
This is the question I ask every coach Hate losing or
love winning?
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Hate losing.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Why is?
Speaker 3 (22:23):
that I think sometimes winning can delay
growth.
There are times where you don'tplay so well and you can win.
Losing forces you to grow andsometimes that's uncomfortable,
(22:50):
at least for me.
I've got to look in the mirrorand say, hey, what's going on?
Where's the breakdown, where'sthe breakdown happening?
And it's something it it'ssomething that I just wrestle
with, where there are times youcan, you can win and you're like
, well, we're all right, youknow we, we, we've still got to,
we've still got to do thesedifferent things.
But, um, we're, hey, we'regetting, you know we're getting
(23:16):
by, but you know in to.
But with losing, there's a senseof urgency and it forces you to
go back and say, hey, where'sthe breakdown?
And it's that it's somethingthat you know constantly looking
at, like we've lost the last,our last three games, and I'm
(23:39):
looking like, okay, where,where's the breakdown?
What's going on?
What's the?
Uh?
How can we get better to makesure we're prepared in the
playoffs?
And you know, even if we hadwon those games, maybe we didn't
, and I I feel like this stretchis going to prepare us for
what's next, but we've got toalso be willing to make
(24:04):
adjustments.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
If you could sit down with two people and spend a
couple hours with them to helpyou become a better leader and
it could be sports or any typeof leadership position who would
you like to sit down with?
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Sam Riggleman I talked about was my collegiate
head coach.
I think what he did with playerand personal development I
think was incredible was was um,it was incredible.
(24:45):
The amount he poured into me asa person was just as much as me
as a baseball player, andthat's something I always
appreciated.
Um, how I genuinely felt like,regardless of the result, he
cared about me as a person, as auh, he cared about who I was as
(25:06):
a student, who I was in thecommunity, um, and so you know
it's been.
It's been 10 years now sinceI've really been around him a
long time and I can pick up thephone and call him, but I think
just picking his brain on thosethings, I think the second one
(25:28):
and what stands out to me iswhat just permeates is Ryan Day.
You lose your biggest game ofthe season, um, that everybody
in your state wants to win andeverybody wants you fired, and
(25:49):
yet how are you able to getyourself off the mat and go win
a national championship Likethat's?
That's incredible leadership.
How do you fight your way, uh,out of that and how do you keep
your team centered and and stillfocused on a goal?
And what type of work?
(26:12):
Because that wasn't like.
That wasn't just one magicalmoment, that was like all the
work in January, february, march, april.
How does like what type of work, not just in the weight room
but personally and connectingthe team to be able to respond
to that?
(26:32):
I'd be really interested to seesome of the different things
that he did.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Well, he made an incredible run and it's amazing.
Living right here in the middleof all of that.
It's amazing how things changefrom the Michigan game to
winning the national title.
Let me ask you this one If youcould have one pitcher in Major
League Baseball history to winGame 7 of the World Series, who
(27:03):
would it be?
And the second part of that isyou get one hitter in Major
League history with a runner onsecond base Bottom of the ninth
tie game, who would that hitterbe?
Wowzers.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
That's man, let's see , I was hoping you'd say one
pitcher that you'd want rightnow.
Man, I would take my guy, loganEvans, saline High School.
He was on my 2019 team.
He's starting for the MarinersRight now.
(27:38):
Yeah, let's man, I'd take himany day of the week.
He's starting for the Marinersright now.
Yeah, let's man, I'd take himany day of the week.
He always believed he was thebest when he took the ball, and
his mentality, his mindset, wassomething that I always admired
when I was his coach, and to seekind of that journey to where
(28:02):
he's at now is pretty special.
So, yeah, give me Logan.
Hitter Made it be hard to nottake jeter with that right
center approach and, um, youknow as many times as he broke
(28:25):
my heart as a as an indians fan.
So, yeah, give me jeter.
Uh, current player, I gottatake jose ramirez, my guy with
the guards.
So, yeah, yeah, that's right,that's right.
Indian yeah, I was an indianfan growing up, so jeter was
always.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
The yankees were always our nemesis, so yes, uh,
two great, two great choicesthere.
Well, to finish up, every coachhas got a story from their
either playing career or as acoach.
What is one that you can tell?
That, when you sit down andthink about it, you laugh every
(29:04):
time.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
The game, the game I've always.
When I look back and how muchI've given to the game but how
much it's given back to me andand just even being with you
here today, ken, that's like to.
Then I meet Tom throughsomebody that I coached with and
(29:28):
got to know, and Wayne Welton.
Like he was the director of opsat Michigan and he and I I
remember we sat down, he spent afall at Spring Arbor right
before he got the volunteer jobat Michigan.
And then that connection, andthen all of a sudden I'm, I end
(29:48):
up at back at Saline and I'mcoaching with his son, and then
you meet coach marker and nownow you're on a podcast, um,
meeting coaches from all overthe country.
I think I almost can laugh like,how lucky am I that through
this game I've gotten to meet somany great people and I've
(30:09):
gotten to be around so manygreat kids and families.
And despite the wins and thelosses, man that's, uh, I'm, I'm
pretty lucky and and, um, youknow, I got to sometimes just
sit back and smile like, uh,going to spring Harbor and
(30:29):
having three of my teammatesstand up in my wedding and and
all the people that I got tomeet through that.
And then I hired a guy fromspring Harbor that, um, I met
through a collegiate summerleague.
He came and was my JV coach.
We connected just from our loveof of the Spring Harbor.
We never even he played after Idid.
(30:50):
So I think I think those are,those are the little things that
, uh, they always make me sitback and smile and laugh about
Just being really lucky througha love, a shared love, of
baseball and all the thingsthat's come with it.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Love it, Coach, and it's Coach Al Zier, head
baseball coach at Saline HighSchool.
Coach.
Best of luck in the upcomingtournament here and thank you so
much for taking the time to beon Baseball Coaches Unplugged.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
Yeah, thanks for having me, Ken.
Really appreciate getting toconnect with you.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Special thanks to Al Zier.
Today's episode is powered bythe Nettie Professionals
Improving Programs, one facilityat a time.
Contact them today at844-620-2707, or visit them
online at wwwnettingproscom.
As always, I'm your host, coachKen Carpenter, and join me
(31:50):
every Wednesday for a newepisode here on Baseball Coaches
Unplugged you.
While some are finished up with their high
school baseball state tournament, others are gearing up for the
start of what you prepare forall season a chance to win a
state title.
Today I'm joined by the highlysuccessful Saline Michigan high
school head baseball coach, alZier, to discuss playing your
best, going into the tournament,having a competitive edge, and
(00:24):
why doing the little thingsmight lead to a state
championship Next on BaseballCoaches Unplugged.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Welcome to Baseball Coaches Unplugged with Coach Ken
Carpenter, presented byAthleteOne.
Baseball Coaches Unplugged is apodcast for baseball coaches,
with 27 years of high schoolbaseball coaching under his belt
, here to bring you the insidescoop on all things baseball,
from game-winning strategies andpitching secrets to hitting
drills and defensive drills.
We're covering it all.
(00:52):
Whether you're a high schoolcoach, college coach or just a
baseball enthusiast, we'll diveinto the tactics and techniques
that make the difference on andoff the field.
Discover how to build a winningmentality.
Inspire your players and getthem truly bought into your game
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Hello and welcome to BaseballCoaches Unplugged.
I'm your host, coach KenCarpenter.
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We have over 100 episodes andthree seasons of sit-downs with
some of the best coaches in highschool travel and college
baseball around the country.
Now to my interview with SalineHigh School head baseball coach
(02:56):
in Michigan, al Zeyer Coach.
Thanks for taking time to be onthe show.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Thanks for having me Coach, Appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Coach, thanks for taking time to be on the show.
Thanks for having me, coach,appreciate it.
Well, this is the time of theyear when you want your team to
be playing their best, are?
Speaker 3 (03:13):
you ready to make a deep run?
That's the goal.
That's the goal is get readyfor playoff baseball here.
We kind of got Memorial Dayhere to recharge and then our
district playoffs start nextweekend.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Let me ask you this Are you in your state?
Do you guys do singleelimination tournament or?
Speaker 3 (03:41):
do you do a two out of three or how do you guys do
it?
Yeah, so our tournament issingle elimination.
Uh, it is.
There is there's no seating,there's no point system.
It is, uh, predetermineddistricts where there is a
random draw, where athleticdirectors pick popsicle sticks
(04:02):
out of a hat and wherever yourname falls, that's what time
you're playing, that's whoyou're playing, and so,
fortunately, this year we didnot draw the pre-district, which
is kind of the game on Tuesday.
So there's a game Tuesday thento get into the district, you
got to win that game.
(04:23):
So, fortunately, this year wedid not draw that pre-district
game and um, so so, yeah, thenwe play at uh 10 on Saturday.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
So you're telling me that the two top teams could
play each other right off theright off the bat?
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Right off the bat.
Yes, and that happens.
And what's crazy too is you canhave two top five teams in the
state be in the same districtand play before even the
district championship, becausethe districts are predetermined,
(05:02):
there's no seating, there's nopoints.
So, for example, last year wehad a district that had three
teams that had won 25 games.
This year we kind of cross overwith a district that's got five
teams who've all been ranked inthe top 25.
(05:24):
That will meet even before aregion, and so sometimes with
that you can have a harder firstgame than it would be second
and third and fourth game.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
That's wild.
I can't believe that.
It's complete opposite here inOhio.
So well, you need to have acompetitive edge going into this
tournament.
Talk about how having acompetitive edge helps a player
to become better.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
That's a great.
You know that's a.
That's a great point, coach, um, a competitive edge and we've
talked about this this week islike a, a commitment and intent
to try and win each pitch.
I'm, I'm watching, um, I'mwatching, uh, watching college
(06:27):
games this weekend and I'mseeing that the better team they
take advantage of when otherteams make mistakes and there's
just like they make you pay forit If you make an error, if your
freebie guys in an inning, theymake you pay and on the flip
(06:48):
side, the better team that makesa mistake.
It doesn't compound, it doesn'tgo to the next one, the next one
, it's an isolated incidentbecause we've been talking a lot
about.
You know what's the quality ofour outs, what do they look like
(07:08):
?
You know you make 21 of them.
What are the quality?
What, situationally,offensively, are you doing to
really pressure the defense?
And so, to do that, you have tohave a willingness and an
intent pitch to pitch.
You can't in the playoffs, youknow you can't wait till the end
or just the beginning.
It's got to be a sense ofurgency right from the shoot.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Right, and you know the little things matter.
And you know simple things likehitting the cutoff or moving
the runner over when he's onsecond base, or, you know, just
getting a sack blunt down orlimiting free bases.
To me it's almost like if youcan do that, you've increased
(07:52):
your chances tremendously, ifyou cut down on the little
mistakes, and that gives you abetter opportunity to win.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Yeah, it's like you know, in a playoff game you may
only get six or seven hits.
So how efficient then, ifyou're getting a hit in, any can
your offense be with?
With um, with your outs, withyour bonds, with your run game,
with a dirt ball read, trying to.
You know, steal 90 feet, it'sum, you know how efficient can
(08:26):
you be doing those things and um, I'd like to think that
preparation, whether that be inthe winter, um, when you're,
when you're in the gym or, uh,you know, going through going
through the preseason work orgoing through games, you prepare
for that.
But being single elimination,there's a lot of variance and
(08:56):
the hope is that having thatsense of urgency from pitch
number one, hopefully it goesyour way- A guy I started out
coaching with back in I want tosay 97, 98, a friend of mine and
he's been a.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Him and his brother have been guests on the podcast.
It's Rick Weaver, the headcoach at Defiance High School
here in Ohio and they'retraditionally always a great
team and I believe they wereranked number one in the state
of Ohio and, opposite of whatyou guys do in Michigan, the top
(09:33):
seed gets to be the top seedand it's like a traditional
bracket and they ran into apitcher that was on and they got
upset in the sectionals thisweek.
That's the nature of the gameIn baseball.
Anything can happen.
(09:53):
When you've got a better teamat tournament time, like you
guys are having a really goodseason, how do you get your team
to focus on that?
One game, one pitch at a timementality.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
That's a really good question, because it's hard and
we've found this in the pastwhere sometimes when you get
your draw, you kind of canoverlook an opponent, and so
(10:29):
trying to get our guys to take alook at like, hey, everything
matters, you're playing againstthe game, you're not playing
against the opponent matters.
Uh, you're playing against thegame, you're not playing against
the opponent.
And and right, there are dayswhere it just it just doesn't go
(10:49):
your way.
But the idea is and we tried todo this um in 23, when um kind
of did some different thingsculturally is like everything
matters.
Uh, we've got to have this likewin now mentality, and it's not
something like, well, shoot,all of a sudden we're just gonna
(11:11):
flip it on.
Well, it's playoff time, we'rejust all of a sudden, we're just
gonna flip the switch and we'regonna go out at 10 am and we're
just gonna flip the switch andit's all going to come together.
That's not really how it works.
So this idea that you know assoon as you get to school that
that that switch has got to goon, you got to be that same dude
(11:33):
, and that you are at seven 50in English, that you are out at
3 PM at practice and it and, andyou're going through your
warmup, uh, for the game.
You're the same guy that youwere when you were in January,
when you were in the weight roomor you were going taking notes
in nutrition or you were tryingto lead your team in a challenge
(11:57):
in the offseason.
You don't have to change whoyou are.
You're kind of the same guy andrealizing that hopefully the
situations that we put you in asa coach has weathered you to be
comfortable, beinguncomfortable and trying, as a
(12:19):
coach, trying to put them in asmany of those situations as we
can and hopefully then, when theplayoffs come, that all pays
off.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Well, if you were to remove talent from the game here
in high school baseball?
What separates the good teamsfrom the great teams?
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Tough culture.
Guys that can handle pressure.
They stick together as a team.
Guys that are committed to playteam baseball.
They're committed that they'reunselfish.
When it comes down to it, ifthey're asked to get the bunt
(13:03):
down with two strikes, theycompete and they move the
baseball.
They're not just looking, youknow, for the reward.
It's a team reward.
The team that ultimately winsis going to have the most guys
that are showcased as you keepgoing.
(13:25):
In the state tournament andawards at the end of the season,
players are recognized that areon great teams.
So if we can buy into that, Ithink you can separate.
But yeah, I think you know it'ssomething that, as a coach, I'm
(13:49):
constantly trying, because Ithink we have a talented group,
group and trying to get them togel together and work as one
versus just individually.
I think is that big challengeas a coach is to create that
(14:12):
environment, whether it be inthe offseason or throughout the
season, that really promotesthat.
I think that can be a bigseparator.
And then you've just got a bunchof guys who love tough
situations.
I'm watching a kid from TexasA&M who broke his stinking hand
(14:34):
and he gets a pin in his handbefore that uh that morning and
he goes out and he competes forhis team against the number one
team in the country and he'she's wincing every swing and he
drove.
He drove in two of their runs.
I mean, that's, that'stoughness.
That's a guy who's laying it onthe line for his team.
(14:54):
That's what.
Trying to get nine of thoseguys out on the field.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Well, fear of failure is something that high school
players struggle with, and whatsteps do you take with your
players to learn from pastfailures, whether it be earlier
in the game or two games ago,and how do you to to not dwell
on past failures?
Speaker 3 (15:22):
That's, uh, that's that.
That's a really good question,I think.
Um, one of the one of thepieces that that I'll look to is
, like you know, we got 24 guyson our roster.
(15:46):
Nine or ten guys play,depending on if we're going to
run a DH, and so, whether you'rereally upset with yourself or
you're not, you owe it to theother 14 guys in the dugout to
still go give everything you gotyour body language, your energy
(16:07):
.
They're going to feed off ofthat.
So, as soon as maybe you have ahard, maybe you come in and and,
yeah, it's okay to be upset,but you can't bring others with
you, and then somebody else hasgot to be there to pick you up,
whether that be a coach or aplayer, and say, hey, look, I'm
(16:28):
going to pick you up here, I'mgoing to pull the rope for you,
I'm going to pull for you andeven though you didn't, I trust
my teammate enough.
Through all the work that we'vedone, all the time we've put in
, I know my teammate's going topick me up, and getting there is
a lot easier than what I justsaid.
It's really hard, and so tryingto point it out, get players to
(16:54):
see that is something that wetry to do, but again, it's
easier.
It's easier said than done.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Well you, you just mentioned 24 players on your
roster.
Yeah, what steps do you take toensure players and parents have
a clear understanding of whattheir role is on the team?
Parents?
Speaker 3 (17:20):
have a clear understanding of what their role
is on the team.
So we meet with each playerbefore the season and we say,
hey, this is what we envisionfor you, this is what we see.
And Sometimes it's like, hey, areally good season would be
(17:43):
Five innings for you pitched.
But we feel like, throughpractice and development, we
feel like if you take theNecessary steps, you could
Really help us.
As a senior, you know, of those24, we have three guys, you know
, bullpen catchers and andmanagers.
(18:06):
We've had managers in the past.
We've said, hey, we primarilysee your role as a base runner,
trying to lay crystal clear whatthat role is, and say, hey,
look, if this isn't okay, if youkind of envision something else
(18:27):
, then that's okay.
We understand that it's not foryou, but you need to make sure
you go home and tell yourparents, lay out what that role
is.
And then, um, if, if, if,you're all in, then then we're
all in with you.
And um, and then, and thenduring the season, kind of try
(18:48):
and over-communicate with, withum what those roles are and how
they evolve and and what's kindof happening, happening, why
different decisions are made.
Trying to over-communicate withthose guys, and it's definitely
something that I've had to getbetter at over the years and so
(19:11):
constantly trying to work atthat, especially as assistants,
with guys in different positiongroups and making sure that it's
clear like, hey, this is ouridentity, this is what gets you
in the lineup, being crystalclear about those things and
what that looks like.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Okay, rank these four categories in order of
importance with your teamPitching defense, offense and
team culture.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Number one for me is culture.
I think with I played at SpringArbor University in college I
played under Sam Riggleman,who's won 1,000 games.
(20:10):
He's a Hall of Famer.
He's somebody who I greatlyadmire.
In high school I played underScott Tyson, who's a Hall of
famer in our state.
To, again, guys that I reallylook up to and I think being at
all the teams, the really goodteams that I was on, the teams
(20:33):
where team chemistry and teamculture was your MVP, those were
the teams that always did thebest, Regardless of how talented
we were as an offense or adefense, as a pitching staff.
When team culture and team wasthe MVP of the team and
everybody was a part of it,those were the teams that did
(21:05):
the best.
And so I've tried to do thatmyself with our teams and having
player-led teams with reallystrong leaders, senior leaders
and promoting great culture,those are the teams that do the
best.
Do I have to rank the otherthree?
After that Pitching, defenseand all of that?
(21:29):
Man, I think pitching anddefense always gives you a
chance to win, and thensituational hitting, Pitching
and defense is limiting 90 feet.
If you've got guys that buyinto your system and are willing
to throw it over the plate andcan throw and catch at a high
level, I think you can win a lotof high school baseball games.
(21:53):
And if you can situationallyhit, you can win a lot of games.
If you can have an offense thatcan bunt but can also play
station to station, you've got areally good chance to win.
But I think it all starts withthat culture buying into the
same objective and how you do it.
(22:14):
That's number one.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
This is the question I ask every coach Hate losing or
love winning?
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Hate losing.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Why is?
Speaker 3 (22:23):
that I think sometimes winning can delay
growth.
There are times where you don'tplay so well and you can win.
Losing forces you to grow andsometimes that's uncomfortable,
(22:50):
at least for me.
I've got to look in the mirrorand say, hey, what's going on?
Where's the breakdown, where'sthe breakdown happening?
And it's something it it'ssomething that I just wrestle
with, where there are times youcan, you can win and you're like
, well, we're all right, youknow we, we, we've still got to,
we've still got to do thesedifferent things.
But, um, we're, hey, we'regetting, you know we're getting
(23:16):
by, but you know in to.
But with losing, there's a senseof urgency and it forces you to
go back and say, hey, where'sthe breakdown?
And it's that it's somethingthat you know constantly looking
at, like we've lost the last,our last three games, and I'm
(23:39):
looking like, okay, where,where's the breakdown?
What's going on?
What's the?
Uh?
How can we get better to makesure we're prepared in the
playoffs?
And you know, even if we hadwon those games, maybe we didn't
, and I I feel like this stretchis going to prepare us for
what's next, but we've got toalso be willing to make
(24:04):
adjustments.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
If you could sit down with two people and spend a
couple hours with them to helpyou become a better leader and
it could be sports or any typeof leadership position who would
you like to sit down with?
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Sam Riggleman I talked about was my collegiate
head coach.
I think what he did with playerand personal development I
think was incredible was was um,it was incredible.
(24:45):
The amount he poured into me asa person was just as much as me
as a baseball player, andthat's something I always
appreciated.
Um, how I genuinely felt like,regardless of the result, he
cared about me as a person, as auh, he cared about who I was as
(25:06):
a student, who I was in thecommunity, um, and so you know
it's been.
It's been 10 years now sinceI've really been around him a
long time and I can pick up thephone and call him, but I think
just picking his brain on thosethings, I think the second one
(25:28):
and what stands out to me iswhat just permeates is Ryan Day.
You lose your biggest game ofthe season, um, that everybody
in your state wants to win andeverybody wants you fired, and
(25:49):
yet how are you able to getyourself off the mat and go win
a national championship Likethat's?
That's incredible leadership.
How do you fight your way, uh,out of that and how do you keep
your team centered and and stillfocused on a goal?
And what type of work?
(26:12):
Because that wasn't like.
That wasn't just one magicalmoment, that was like all the
work in January, february, march, april.
How does like what type of work, not just in the weight room
but personally and connectingthe team to be able to respond
to that?
(26:32):
I'd be really interested to seesome of the different things
that he did.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Well, he made an incredible run and it's amazing.
Living right here in the middleof all of that.
It's amazing how things changefrom the Michigan game to
winning the national title.
Let me ask you this one If youcould have one pitcher in Major
League Baseball history to winGame 7 of the World Series, who
(27:03):
would it be?
And the second part of that isyou get one hitter in Major
League history with a runner onsecond base Bottom of the ninth
tie game, who would that hitterbe?
Wowzers.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
That's man, let's see , I was hoping you'd say one
pitcher that you'd want rightnow.
Man, I would take my guy, loganEvans, saline High School.
He was on my 2019 team.
He's starting for the MarinersRight now.
(27:38):
Yeah, let's man, I'd take himany day of the week.
He's starting for the Marinersright now.
Yeah, let's man, I'd take himany day of the week.
He always believed he was thebest when he took the ball, and
his mentality, his mindset, wassomething that I always admired
when I was his coach, and to seekind of that journey to where
(28:02):
he's at now is pretty special.
So, yeah, give me Logan.
Hitter Made it be hard to nottake jeter with that right
center approach and, um, youknow as many times as he broke
(28:25):
my heart as a as an indians fan.
So, yeah, give me jeter.
Uh, current player, I gottatake jose ramirez, my guy with
the guards.
So, yeah, yeah, that's right,that's right.
Indian yeah, I was an indianfan growing up, so jeter was
always.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
The yankees were always our nemesis, so yes, uh,
two great, two great choicesthere.
Well, to finish up, every coachhas got a story from their
either playing career or as acoach.
What is one that you can tell?
That, when you sit down andthink about it, you laugh every
(29:04):
time.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
The game, the game I've always.
When I look back and how muchI've given to the game but how
much it's given back to me andand just even being with you
here today, ken, that's like to.
Then I meet Tom throughsomebody that I coached with and
(29:28):
got to know, and Wayne Welton.
Like he was the director of opsat Michigan and he and I I
remember we sat down, he spent afall at Spring Arbor right
before he got the volunteer jobat Michigan.
And then that connection, andthen all of a sudden I'm, I end
(29:48):
up at back at Saline and I'mcoaching with his son, and then
you meet coach marker and nownow you're on a podcast, um,
meeting coaches from all overthe country.
I think I almost can laugh like,how lucky am I that through
this game I've gotten to meet somany great people and I've
(30:09):
gotten to be around so manygreat kids and families.
And despite the wins and thelosses, man that's, uh, I'm, I'm
pretty lucky and and, um, youknow, I got to sometimes just
sit back and smile like, uh,going to spring Harbor and
(30:29):
having three of my teammatesstand up in my wedding and and
all the people that I got tomeet through that.
And then I hired a guy fromspring Harbor that, um, I met
through a collegiate summerleague.
He came and was my JV coach.
We connected just from our loveof of the Spring Harbor.
We never even he played after Idid.
(30:50):
So I think I think those are,those are the little things that
, uh, they always make me sitback and smile and laugh about
Just being really lucky througha love, a shared love, of
baseball and all the thingsthat's come with it.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Love it, Coach, and it's Coach Al Zier, head
baseball coach at Saline HighSchool.
Coach.
Best of luck in the upcomingtournament here and thank you so
much for taking the time to beon Baseball Coaches Unplugged.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
Yeah, thanks for having me, Ken.
Really appreciate getting toconnect with you.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Special thanks to Al Zier.
Today's episode is powered bythe Nettie Professionals
Improving Programs, one facilityat a time.
Contact them today at844-620-2707, or visit them
online at wwwnettingproscom.
As always, I'm your host, coachKen Carpenter, and join me
(31:50):
every Wednesday for a newepisode here on Baseball Coaches
Unplugged you.
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