July 2, 2025 • 43 mins
When Coach Will Gorden stepped off the plane in China to lead a development program for Major League Baseball, he faced an immediate challenge: coaching 42 young baseball players who didn't speak English. This experience became the foundation for his transformative coaching journey that would span three countries and reshape his approach to leadership.
"More than anything, I learned a new way to communicate," Gorden explains on Baseball Coaches Unplugged. "After working with those kids who didn't speak the language, I can do anything with anybody in the United States." These international experiences—from witnessing the meticulous batting practice routines of Chinese Taipei's team to observing the profound reverence Japanese players showed toward the game—provided Gordon with a unique perspective few American coaches possess.
Now back at Rockhurst High School in Missouri after stints coaching in China, Taiwan, and India, Gorden has implemented a coaching philosophy built around what he calls "service-minded leadership." Rather than following the traditional model where freshmen handle equipment duties, Gorden places this responsibility on his seniors. "If you want to be seen as a leader, you're serving your teammates," he explains. This approach teaches players that leadership isn't about privilege—it's about service to others.
Gorden's candid reflections on his evolution as a coach reveal profound wisdom. Where he once believed "there weren't enough sprints that would cure everything," experience has taught him adaptability. "Kids change and I have to be willing to adapt to that mindset as well," he shares. This growth mindset extends to his approach with parents, where he welcomes hard conversations about playing time—a topic many coaches avoid.
Perhaps most refreshing is Gorden's perspective on youth baseball. When coaching his nine-year-old son's team, which didn't win a game all season, his measure of success was beautifully simple: "I asked them all individually...did you have fun? They said yeah. And do you want to play again? Yeah. Okay, that's it. Then we did our job." In today's hyper-competitive youth sports landscape, this commitment to joy and development over trophies offers a powerful reminder of what truly matters.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome to Baseball Coaches Unplugged,
where I sit down with coachesfrom around the country and in
this case, around the world andbring real stories and
strategies from the best coachesand minds in the game.
Today we're joined by a coachwhose baseball journey has taken
him from across state lines andacross the globe, from coaching
(00:22):
in Kansas and Missouri toleading MLB's development
efforts in China.
Coach Will Gordon brings aunique perspective to the dugout
.
Now back to where it all began,at Rockhurst High School.
Coach Gordon shares hisinsights on building culture,
international coaching lessonsand what it takes to lead a
successful high school programin today's game.
(00:44):
To lead a successful highschool program in today's game
Rockhurst High School head coachWill Gordon.
Next on Baseball CoachesUnplugged.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Welcome to Baseball Coaches Unplugged with Coach Ken
Carpenter, presented byAthleteOne.
Baseball Coaches Unplugged is apodcast for baseball coaches,
with 27 years of high schoolbaseball coaching under his belt
, here to bring you the insidescoop on all things baseball,
from game-winning strategies andpitching secrets to hitting
drills and defensive drills.
We're covering it all.
(01:12):
Whether you're a high schoolcoach, college coach or just a
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Discover how to build a winningmentality.
Inspire your players and getthem truly bought into your game
philosophy Plus.
Get the latest insights onrecruiting, coaching, leadership
and crafting a team culturethat champions productivity and
(01:34):
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Join Coach every week as hebreaks down the game and shares
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Your competitive edge startshere, so check out the show
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On Baseball Coaches Unplugged.
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Hello and welcome to BaseballCoaches Unplugged.
I'm your host, coach KenCarpenter, and wow do we have a
very interesting guest fortoday's show and I really think
you're going to enjoy thestories he shares about the
(02:57):
differences between players inthe US and the players that are
playing the game in China.
Got one simple ask If youenjoyed today's show, be sure to
share it with a friend and, ifyou get a chance, leave us a
review.
It helps us to grow the show.
Now let's get to our sit-downwith Coach Will Gordon,
(03:20):
rockhurst High School inMissouri.
Thanks for taking time to be onBaseball Coaches Unplugged.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Hey, always good to talk to another member of the
coaching community and I've doneit across various different
aspects.
I'm excited to get theopportunity to talk to you today
.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Well, you're back at Rockhurst High School and I
guess I want to start off withyou know how are you blending
the culture and expectations ofyour past coaching experiences
into this new chapter you havegoing at Rockhurst?
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Well, last year was my first year to be back at
Rockhurst, after I had a shortstint there for four years, as
an assistant coach as well,prior to.
So I feel like this is mysecond run, which is nice to
know the lay of the land andalso the times in between.
Between 2011 and 2025.
(04:14):
I spent 14 years kind ofgrowing up, learning the game a
lot more literally, went andcoached around the world during
that time and I've been I'vecoached in China, china and been
the head coach of two otherhigh schools on the state of
Kansas in those times, but allof that kind of blends itself
into what do we want to do as aunit, what do we want to do as a
(04:36):
team?
The school itself is Jesuit inits background, and so I feel
like that gives us a strongfoundation and culture that we
can always kind of tie back intoas well.
It's a school that's seen a lotof success, especially in the
football side.
It's yet to win a statebaseball title.
It's had a couple of bigleaguers roll through there as
well, and one of the firstthings I'm doing is trying to
(04:58):
tie back into those roots as towho was here.
Why was this important.
What are we doing and how canwe move forward together as a
unit?
So I look back towards reallythe past and kind of you know
what can we do and what lessonscan we learn from those guys
over here, why did it mean somuch to them and how can we move
forward using those lessons?
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Well, what drives your passion for coaching, both
high school and you know yourinvolvement with?
I believe it's like a clublevel team there in Kansas City
area.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Yes, so I've been involved in various clubs and
organizations.
I currently am employed byMackensites, which Mike
McFarland and Kevin Seitzerstarted a while back, and I
worked for Building Championshere in town for a long time.
And I I I told my son the otherday he's nine.
I said, you know, I knew when Iwas 12 that I wanted to be a
coach and just like any othercoach, it has nothing to do with
(05:55):
wins and losses, it haseverything to do with
relationships, the fact that Iget the opportunity to go meet,
and it surprises you every year,right, like you think, oh, this
class is so special there's notgoing to be another one like it
, and it's a different kind ofspecial every time, and I think
that's what A keeps me feelingso young and B really drives me
(06:16):
to get the opportunity just toshare and inevitably learn from
them.
That's how I feel like I reallygrow in.
The game is.
Each year I learn somethingmore from a player than I do,
probably imparting stuff on myown, so I truly appreciate the
opportunity to go out there.
That's my passion, is what canI learn from these young men?
(06:36):
And then maybe, if I'm lucky,what can I have the opportunity
to teach them, because it goesway beyond the lines too.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Most coaches never get a chance to coach overseas
and you mentioned earlier youknow you've been to China with
the MLB and what's the biggestlessons that you've brought back
here to the US from thatexperience coaching overseas?
Speaker 3 (07:04):
You know, when you first get a job working for
Major League Baseball, you havethis expectation and this
thought oh my gosh.
You know, first paycheck saysMajor League Baseball and you're
super excited.
And we traveled 7,000 milesaround the world.
And, just like every other partof this game, you get humbled
pretty quickly by the game.
And you look at the facilitiesand, and it's just, you're
(07:27):
living in china, um, and, andit's quite different, um, living
in china for a lot of reasons,um, but one is I got 42 players.
They're all ages 11 to 16 yearsold and none of them speak
english.
And, uh, my first, first dayoff there, I went for a little
(07:47):
look, see, and they gave me achance.
I'm off the plane, uh, and it'sless than 24 hours and my head
boss tells me hey, I want you togo work with this young man on
hitting.
And I'm like, okay.
So we walked down there and andit's dead silent.
I mean, he, we're not going tohave a conversation.
We put a ball in the tee, we dofront flips, I throw him some
(08:08):
BP, we talk a little bit just bymoving motions and things like
that, and we communicated.
And so you want to talk aboutwhat did I take back?
More than anything was a newway to communicate.
What I always tell guys youknow me, with 42 guys that
didn't speak the languagetogether, I can do anything with
(08:29):
anybody in the united states,we'll be just fine.
Uh, we can communicate in termsof that.
And then then the funny thingabout the, the kid that I took
down and go hit.
We don't talk the entire time,we get done, we walk up and my
boss says, well, how'd he do tothe kid hitting?
He was like perfect english.
Oh, you know, he does prettygood.
He knows exactly what he'stalking about with hitting.
And I was like you understoodenglish the whole time, had had
(08:52):
no idea, but my boss wanted tosee what it was going to be like
.
You know, hey, go see, go seeif you can teach this kid who
doesn't know anything.
Um, and so really the big thingI took back was how lucky we are
here in the United States aswell, how privileged we are when
I see an 11-year-old kid whogets to see his parents once a
week, once a year, excuse me anddoing his own laundry, and our
(09:17):
kid from Tibet who has literallyshowered twice a year for his
whole 14 years growing up and Ihave to explain hey, bud, after
showers we got to hit theshowers after practice.
It really makes you appreciatethe game here.
It makes you see a lotdifferently and I had some
pretty cool moments over theretoo.
But bringing that attitudeevery time back to the field
(09:41):
when I watch those kids overthere, the appreciation for the
opportunity that they had is soamazing.
And then to then hopefullytranslate that a little bit to
our kids here in the UnitedStates at every level, you know
this is, this is an opportunityeach and every day to go out and
do something that not everybodygets to, and don't take it for
(10:01):
granted.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Well, that, that is just mind boggling.
I can't even for granted.
Well that is just mind-boggling.
I can't even imagine that.
And you know, I was kind ofwondering.
You know the difference betweenthe kid here in the US that's
playing high school, he's onsome elite travel team, and then
you've got a kid, like you said, from Tibet.
Those differences have to behuge, I guess, and it's maybe
(10:29):
not so much the baseball side ofit, but it's their lifestyle, I
would think.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Yeah, the kid from Tibet.
You know, one of the uniquethings over there is we all kind
of gave them American names,mainly because it's very
difficult for me to yell WongWei Hao, which was one of my
kids' names, where I can justcall him Willie and that's
easier.
But the kid from Tibet, hechose the name Roger for Roger
Clemens and he was thisleft-handed pitcher and he just
(10:56):
won.
For the first time ever, hepitches for Team China now they
beat Chinese Taipei and he's theupwards of 90 miles an hour and
this is a kid that, like I saidwhen I tell you how to, I had
to tell him how to take a shower, like hey, bud, you got to do
this every day.
The next day in my office, mysecretary meets me and she's
like hey, I need you to talk toRoger.
(11:17):
Did he, did he not took ashower?
Could you tell me?
Needs to wear clothes to andfrom the shower, though he just
had his towel and all his glorygoing back and forth and it was
just.
Yeah, so it was a trip, but youlook at that kid and here's a 90
mile an hour arm at the.
(11:38):
You know, beat chinese taipeiand he's given an opportunity
and, um, that's pretty much whatall those kids are looking for.
Right, there is just thatunique opportunity that's there
as well.
So it was definitely anexperience, for sure.
I was in India for a week MajorLeague Baseball Summit in India
and with the mindset of, okay,what do cricket players?
(11:59):
You know, you've seen MillionDollar Arm that was kind of the
deal.
There was only one field in allof India while we were there
and we got to be on that fieldand there's some talented
players over there.
The game is definitely growingand it was just once again, this
opportunity to do somethingthat could give them another
opportunity and it was reallyfun to see as well.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Now, were there any other parts of the world that
you had a chance to coach in, orwere those the two main ones?
Speaker 3 (12:30):
So I coached in China , I coached in India and then I
coached in Taiwan.
I was the 14U coach for theChinese national team in Taiwan
for, like the Little LeagueWorld Series, which I always
thought like we came within onegame of winning it, I thought it
would be hilarious to return tothe United States as the head
coach of China and having theirteam there.
(12:50):
But you know, you talk aboutexperiences.
To this day, chinese Taipei'sbatting practice was the most
impressive thing I've ever seenin my entire life.
They set up and they had alltheir hitters go through.
In the first round they hitnothing but balls through the
4-3 hole and I mean on theground through the 4-3 hole, one
(13:12):
through nine every time.
And then their second round,they went through the 5-6 hole
and it was on the ground everysingle time.
And the third round was rightup the middle and they needed to
hit that L screen, like thatwas their job.
Oh, and before that it was 10minutes of straight bunting and
all that occurred there, and soit was unique to see that.
(13:34):
And then in our championshipgame we had a kid who ended up
pitching for the Brewersorganization, starting for me,
and I don't know where their kidended up.
I'm sure he ended up somewhere.
We two 14 year olds so in 85,86, with just bangers for days
coming out of the hand, and Imean it was nothing, nothing
through the fourth, two outsground ball, right back to my
kid, right down the right fieldline and the wheels came off of
(13:58):
that bus rather quick.
But we gave them a run fortheir money, um, and and all
their coach could ask meafterwards was how do we teach
our kids how to hit home runs?
And I said I don't like.
You guys can hit the ballwherever you want.
That's best barrel control I'veever seen in my entire life.
Um, don't worry about hittingthe home runs.
So it was, it was unique to seethat perspective clean fielding
(14:18):
, um, and just a, an incredibleum reverence I want to say for
the game.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
And they throw all the time.
Would you say that theshowmanship and the bat flipping
and the 35 things in their backpocket and everything that's
probably not happening a wholelot over there, I would guess.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
No, there's a Japanese school in shanghai that
would come over and we were.
The place where I was was threehours away, okay, and I would
get to the ballpark at 7 am andthose kids were there by 6 50 am
waiting for me to unlock thegate to go to our school and the
moms came with the bento boxesand they line up their helmets
and they line up their bats andthey ran in four groups of four
(15:05):
in unison, around the track inlockstep, before my kids even
came anywhere close to the yard.
I mean, it was just a differentthing.
You know, you see Shohei todaysay something to the umpire,
every at-bat commonplace, andand and to every player.
That I was telling my kids.
You know I always wondered whythey take off their hat before
(15:25):
they go into the field and theydo it twice actually, and it's
to thank the field for theopportunity to play on it and
then afterwards it's to saythank you for the opportunity to
have done this, and I justthink that's such a unique way
to go about looking at the gameand and and it's a.
It's a really cool thing tothink about every time you step
on a field, because you know wepush the hustle in between the
(15:45):
white lines.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
But, man, when you, when you take a moment and do
that, um it's, it's prettypowerful message wow, I and I
imagine now you're back here inthe us and you can really tie
everything that you've donethere to help you build a
consistent, winning program.
And what is there like acertain blueprint that you've
(16:09):
put together now that you've hadthis experience?
Speaker 3 (16:13):
You know, I don't know.
I think younger versions ofmyself, you know, probably
hammered in on the, I don't know.
I was probably hammered in onthe, I don't know, I was
probably too rough and there'snot enough sprints that we're
going to cure everything right.
And I think the most importantthing I've learned along the way
is kids change and I have to bewilling to adapt to that
(16:34):
mindset as well.
My 9-year-old constantlyreminds me of that too, and if I
expect them to bend to me toevery degree, it's not going to
work.
But what I want them to do isbend for each other, and I think
that's the most important thing.
When I look at continuity in aprogram year in and year out,
the biggest thing that I try tostress is that seniors have to
(16:55):
be service-minded leaders.
That is their job to serve.
If you want to be seen as aleader, you're serving your
teammates.
We have a rule in my programsthat I've been in that the
seniors are responsible forpicking everything up and
putting everything away, andthey have the.
They have the practice plan setup.
They have everything put up.
(17:16):
If there's a ball left out,they're the ones that answer to
it.
And I think I changed thatmindset because I was so used to
seeing it.
Well, you're the freshman, youget the balls, you know, or you
got to do this, you got to dothat.
And I thought that's not howthis works.
Like a, when you were afreshman, you didn't like you
treated like that by senior andB.
That's not how the real worldworks.
(17:37):
Like you better learn to goserve.
You, better be willing to pickup something for somebody else,
and that's what's going to getyou noticed and keep you around
in whatever profession you'regoing to be in.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
You know you mentioned, you know early on
coaching how you the sprints anddifferent things.
You know it kind of dulled amemory that I had one year early
on when I was coaching.
We came up as a team but wecame up with the idea that for
every run we give up.
That's how many sprints we gotto do after a game.
(18:08):
And the guys just didn't likeno player loves after a game to
do sprints but it was amazinghow motivated they were to not
give up runs, especially thepitchers and you know you hate
to say you know there's apunishment or however you want
(18:31):
to look at it, for giving upruns, but they really took pride
in not giving up runs and Ithink we ended up winning like
24 games that season and youknow, know we had a nice season.
So it's funny because how youcan look back on how you used to
coach and how you've adaptedand changed over the years.
Do you find yourself in thatsituation too?
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Oh yeah, all the time I can't.
My players always tell me ohman, you've gotten so much
easier, so much softer, and Ilike to remind them well, you
guys just weren't very talentedso I had to be hard.
Talent, talent solves a lot ofproblems.
Um, but at the same time youknow one of my former guys I
played college with he.
He led the conference inhitting twice.
(19:14):
He was my assistant coach thispast year and my second year as
head coach, and the first time Iwas head coach.
He said are you still makingguys run the mile?
I said yeah, timed mile.
Yeah, stop doing that.
And I was like why?
And he's like, where would Ihave finished in that mile?
Every year?
I said dead last.
I said he goes.
Did I ever finish last in theconference in hitting?
No, you finished first.
(19:36):
Right, yep, he goes.
Okay, he goes.
You can run the mile all youwant, but look for those guys in
the back and hit them three orfour holes and see how he turns
out.
But I learned that you learnsomething each year and some
years are.
This was year one in a programfor me and so did the seniors
knock it out of the park withtheir service?
Absolutely not.
Did they do the best they could?
(20:05):
Yes, is it a yes, um, and so Ithink, more than anything, over
the years I've learned patience,um, and maybe, maybe, some
grace, uh, whereas before Imight not have had as much.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
So it's just a year-to-year thing well, what is
something you believe in aboutcoaching or player development
that maybe most coaches mightnot agree with you on, or at
least you know they might see itdifferently?
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Boy?
That's a great question.
I believe in having hardconversations.
I really believe in those.
I believe in absolute honestybetween players and coaches and
this might be a littlecontroversial.
I have no problem having thoseconversations with parents.
You know, first and foremost, Itell parents I'm a parent, hey,
I want to.
(20:52):
I'm going to protect your kids,even from you sometimes.
That's number one for me.
I'm going to see them every day.
We're going to go to work everyday together.
I'm going to love them.
So they're my first priority.
And I said we're going to learnto have hard conversations
because that's what life's goingto be about.
And, let's face it, it's aboutone thing playing time.
Right, I don't beat around thatbush either.
(21:12):
I know there's a lot of peoplesay I won't want to talk about
playing time.
I've never had a conversationthat wasn't about playing time
uh, when it comes to a kid, andso my, I think maybe the biggest
thing that takes people back ismy willingness to go ahead.
You want to have a good talk?
Sure, let's go ahead, let's gosit down.
You may not like what you haveto hear, what I have to say, um,
but this is what I believe in.
(21:34):
I've never sat down once towrite a lineup to screw a kid,
um, and you and I might sitthere and have difference of
opinion, but I'm not one ofthose closed door guys.
I'm not one of those.
It's an open door program.
You're more than welcome tocome sit down and have that
conversation with me, and we'llsee where we are at the end of
it and go from there.
There'll be growth on all sides, because there's a lot of times
(21:55):
where I don't know something ormaybe I need to just listen,
and maybe that's okay toosomething, or maybe I need to
just listen and maybe that'sokay too.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Yes, I always made myself open to parents and you
know, I think sometimes itprobably drove my wife crazy
because I take calls at night orwhatever and things like that.
But I figured it was best tohave the conversation rather
than letting it just brew.
And you know, the biggest thingI always did was I was like
give it at least 24 hours andmaybe when you wake up in the
(22:28):
morning you might feel a littledifferently.
That's kind of what I wouldhope for.
But you got to have thoseconversations because you know,
everybody says parents are crazy.
But you know, ultimately theythey just love and care about
their son and they want, theywant to see them out there on
the field.
And that's a part of life,because once you get to out of
(22:51):
high school and you go into thereal world, it's it's mom and
dad ain't going to be able tohelp you with that kind of stuff
.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
But no, and I've to help you with that kind of stuff
.
No, and I found that havingthose conversations with the
parents and the players like themore I've done that, the more I
felt like I had moreconversations with players,
because they know and theirparents know there's nothing.
I'm not going to say one thingto one party and say something
to the other at all.
We're going to have the sameconversation and I like it
(23:22):
sometimes to have them both inthere because I don't know which
version is going to go home.
So let's just make sure weclean it up and move from there.
But I think the morestraightforward and honest you
be, like you said, the adversityis going to come at some time
and you're going to have to hearhard truth and you're going to
have to advocate for yourselfand sometimes you're going to
have to listen to somebody elsesay that you're not that way.
Maybe that's the impetus theyneed to be a better player,
(23:44):
better person, better parent,better worker later on, and I
think that's important toinstill early on.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Yeah, and I always remind myself that anytime I had
a conversation like that, tomake sure you had make sure I
had another coach with me, youhad make sure I had another
coach with me.
And you know I had one coach.
He always wanted to be therewith me and he was a human
resources director.
So this guy was like he had hisnotepads, he had everything
(24:13):
going, which you know.
I appreciate it, becausesometimes you forget what may
have been said and you know heseemed like he always had it
written down.
So that's good.
But when you're a're a coach,you got to really have somebody
else in there just to make surethat things don't get twisted or
out of hand.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
I guess you could say yeah, and I've invited athletic
directors.
I've my last times.
I've had two young assistantslast two years.
One of them just took a headjob this last year, had an
outstanding year, and I haveanother one that's younger.
It's actually a former playerof mine that's now my assistant.
It's a great opportunity forthem.
It's free practice for them.
(24:52):
They don't have to own any ofthe decisions that are being
made.
I would say there's no betterrole than being a varsity
assistant coach because Causeyou get you don't have to handle
some of those headaches and youget to just work and do one
particular thing.
So I try to include those guysas much for their growth as it
is to protect a little bit ofwhat could happen.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Yes, and you know, I I think about that and I I had a
former player of mine that wasan assistant coach and and I had
to go to a title IX meetingwhich I had never experienced
before.
So I took him with me and whenwe met with the attorneys, the
attorneys asked me.
They said, is this yourattorney?
And I'm like, no, that's Stegs,he's one of my assistant
(25:36):
coaches.
You know, it was interesting togo through that experience
because they thought that we hadall these extra things and we
didn't, and they were like, okay, it makes sense now.
But you had mentioned your sonearlier and he's a young guy.
(25:57):
I mean, he's a young guy and Iguess, have you set goals for
him when it comes to the game ofbaseball and how you want him
to appreciate it and to be?
You know someone who does itbecause it's something he wants
to do.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
You know, I think my greatest fear early on was that
I would push too hard or maybebe too honest with where I see
him in the game.
And so it's been a pleasantjourney so far with him,
watching him learn to fall inlove with the game on his own.
(26:38):
Hopefully, is what I'm alwayshoping.
Do I push too hard sometimes?
Yeah, on its own, hopefully iswhat I'm always hoping.
Do I push too hard sometimes?
Yeah, do I overreact sometimes?
Sure, I'm not by far and away aperfect dad and I'm learning a
lot about.
I knew it was just an absolutewild ride, with throwing strikes
and everything else that seemsto come along with it.
(26:59):
But you know, he's got baseballcards and I'm watching him at
the Royals game the other dayand he's sitting there and
they're all showing each othercards and they're running down
and trying to get him ajumbotron, and that's what it's
about, you know.
And I asked our 9U team.
We didn't win a game this year.
(27:21):
I think we tied like our firstgame.
But I asked our 9U team wedidn't win a game this year.
I think we tied like our firstgame.
But I asked them allindividually.
I pointed at each one at theend of the season and said did
you have fun?
They said yeah, and do you wantto play again?
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Okay, that's it.
Then we did our job, we had fun, we got better, you understood
more leaving than you did comingin and you want to play next
year.
And we all know we don't knowwhat puberty looks like and we
don't know when it's going tostrike or hit or how, but it's
been a very fun thing to watchhim choose to be a catcher which
(27:51):
, my God, I would never choosein a million years to have
catchers.
But you know what?
You're constantly in the action.
He didn't mind getting hit withthe ball and, hey man, have had
it right right through there.
But uh, I will say the mostunique thing I've experienced
I've coached in state semifinalsand playoff games in the extra
(28:14):
innings and he, he can be upthere in the first inning
hitting and that feeling andthat pit in my stomach is way
bigger than it is any other time, any other place, and I just
have to go through my head.
Keep your mouth shut, justwatch him.
You know, make sure he swingsfast, fast.
But in his last at bat hepunches out and like three
(28:36):
straight pitches, like I thinkhe swung the second one and um,
I'm not saying anything, I goback to the dugout.
I was like hey, bud, how'd youfeel that bat felt powerful.
Okay, there you go, bud.
You felt powerful, punching out, looking.
Okay, we'll work on that nextseason.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
So it's been fun, you know, and the great thing about
what you said there and youknow, for any listener out there
that has a son playing, andregardless of what age level,
you know, I'm assuming it wasn'ttravel baseball right- no, I
mean, it's not.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
If we're traveling, I'm going to a beach and I'm not
watching Little League baseball.
That's not happening.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Right.
So you know, you see thesecrazy tournaments being played
and teams traveling and they'rebeing rated eight, you, nine,
you and all these things and youknow, at that age, like you
said, the most important thingis at the end of it, did you
have fun and do you want to doit again?
Yeah, Did you have fun and doyou want to do it again?
(29:42):
Yeah, that's how it should be atthat age.
And you know, some of the stuffthat I see going on, you know,
because of X is justmind-boggling.
It just blows my mind thatcoaches, I don't know, I guess
they have a shrine in theirgarage or something where they
hang up these plastic rings andbanners and things like that, I
(30:05):
guess.
How do you feel about that?
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Well, I run youth programs.
It's really interesting whenyou watch and you get to these
guys.
Usually dads quit coachingabout 13 or 14.
I have the same conversationwith them at 13 or 14.
If I could do it one more year,if I could do it one more time
over again and it's never wewould do more traveling.
It's never more, it's it's the.
(30:31):
The constant wish is to go backand develop or just be present.
Just be present a little bitmore and take away the need for
winning.
Because, let's face it, ifyou're doing a bracket, there's
two words I hate more thananything.
It's bracket play.
Because I look at my own son'steam.
My God, if we won thisnine-year tournament, we'd have
(30:52):
to sit on a ball field and winthree games on a Sunday after we
won three other games.
Like, what kid isn't going towant to go to the pool or go
play Star Wars or whateverthey're going to do, right?
And that's what's going to killit for them.
It's not that they're not goingto be any good, it's the fact
that they set up a field forthree freaking games in a row.
(31:13):
And then I think about the otherside, where and I don't think
I've posted a highlight yet onmy personal page of my son's
baseball journey, a couple ofpictures of him in gear or
whatever, right, but it's odd tome and maybe I'm unique in that
fact.
But at the same time I really goback to the old school
(31:35):
philosophy let's have fun, let'spractice more than we play, and
let's find a way to make eachouting something that we can
learn together.
And then we set small goalswithin those right Like we're
going to make sure that we'retrying to be in the right spot
for a double cut or the rightspot for a cut.
God knows, we ain't going toactually play catch in that, but
(31:58):
we might be in the right spotto where somebody has, you know,
and those are small wins.
We execute a pickoff, okay,great, okay, and we're going to
celebrate those small wins daily, which, I think, add up over
time.
But you're right, I think it'salso not my place and if that's
what your family chooses to doand that's what they choose to
pride, all power to you.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
I just have a sneaking suspicion by the time
you get done with it and youlook back on the journey, maybe
you'd approach it a littledifferent.
Well, can you share a moment,good or bad?
Speaker 3 (32:36):
that truly tested your leadership and how you
navigated it.
I tell you, though, one of theareas I'm most proud of myself
as a coach is as there's a youngman named Jack Jones, who
played for me at shiny missionEast for four years, and Jack's
(32:59):
father passed away on a planecrash from.
Jack was a young boy, 10, 11years old, and I'll tell you
this when I tell you we had acontentious relationship.
You can ask any kid on thatteam if we would go at it, if I
wouldn't lose my mind more, ifhe wouldn't lose his mind back.
We're talking.
He's a four-year varsitystarter, sec committed senior
year.
Just talent like you wouldn'tbelieve, but boy did we get
(33:20):
after it sometimes Tore hishamstring, real bad Injury at
the end of his sophomore season,I believe, and my proudest
moment is he had an interviewlater on and he said I was like
a dad-like figure to him, andthat, to me, was that was what
it was all about.
We had this relationship on thefield, we had this, and I didn't
(33:41):
set out trying to do that byany means, but for him to say
those words, that meant a lot tome.
That meant the world to me ofbad, tough, hard moments in that
(34:02):
relationship where I had tocall him and say, hey, man, I
lost it today, you know, and andhe had moments too where he had
to do that and but baseballfostered that relationship and
that was really important to meand it was one that I'm
particularly proud of to thisday well, I gotta hit you with
the question I asked every guesthate losing or love winning?
oh man, I think I know I wouldhate losing more than I love
(34:22):
winning.
Yes, I cannot stand it now.
That being said, we did it 24times this year, which was a new
record for me in a season likewe had a tough year.
But you know, we had 10 one runlosses and we out hit our
opponents on the season.
But boy, knowing those facts, Ithink are supposed to make me
(34:43):
feel better, but they sure don't.
If those 10-1 runs flipped inthe other column, I can sit here
and smile a little bit more.
But no, I, absolutely I despiselosing.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Um, uh, yeah, for sure I to ask you this You're in
that Kansas City area.
Are you a Chiefs fan by chance?
Speaker 3 (35:08):
I enjoy the Chiefs.
Yeah, we watch them here andthere.
Are you a Browns fan then?
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yes, a little world opposite of the spectrum on that
one, but yes, I am.
Well, I'm going to hit you witha Chiefs question here.
This is a little bit off topicof baseball, but who's more
important, andy Reid or PatrickMahomes?
Speaker 3 (35:31):
Man, that's tough, real tough on that.
Because you know, here I am onthe Andy Reid side of things and
I know that I'm a lot betterwhen I got a Patrick Holmes.
You know it's a lot easier tobe seen as a good coach with
good players than it is to be agood coach with a losing record
(35:55):
when that happens.
So I got to say that probablythe Patrick of my home is
probably the secret, but at thesame time you got to play the
strings and the management ofthe clubhouse and all those
things are probably good.
But yeah, I've had some.
I was always a lot better coachwhen I had a lot better talent.
Let's put it that way.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
No doubt you know and that question also can be
applied to the Tom Brady BillBelichick situation which some
people can look at it twodifferent ways.
But if you've got talent you'rea little bit better coach every
time, that's for sure All right, let's go with the Kansas City
(36:36):
Royals.
All right, let's hit with theKansas City Royals right here.
All right, let's go with theKansas City Royals.
All right, let's hit with theKansas City Royals right here.
You have two players today thatyou can take and put on your
current Royals roster.
Who would you take?
Group A, you get George Brettand Zach Greinke.
Or Group B and this is withoutinjuries Bo Jackson and Brett
(37:00):
Saberhagen.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
Oh man, that's a good question.
I got to go with George and Igot to go with Grinke.
Just the overall consistency.
Now, don't get me wrong, boJackson is the greatest athlete
on the planet to probably everlive, in my opinion.
I mean, it's just nobody's everdone anything with that.
Guy has ever done uh, period.
(37:25):
But for the longevity the jawuh that george had and for the
insanity of winning at cy youngon a losing team was that grinky
?
You got to take that guy.
I mean that guy's so beyondweird in the stories with him
and flipping balls over andeverything that he did.
But he showed up and won a lotof games and those two guys
(37:49):
besides seeing Brett and BobbyWitt Jr on the same side of the
infield would be something else.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Yes, definitely.
You know they've had some goodteams.
They've had some great players.
One of those guys I would loveto talk to, george Brunson, on
the podcast, but I think I wouldprobably have a little bit more
fun with Granke, because he'sdefinitely got some craziness to
him.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
I guess you could say I just think you'd have to
wonder what questions he's goingto ask you.
That's where you'd have to beprepared for that.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Well, I tell you what .
Since you just threw that outthere, let's finish on this one.
You mentioned before we startedrecording that you've tried
your hand at podcasting.
What question would you ask me?
Speaker 3 (38:44):
What question would I ask you?
Well, what is it?
How do you get the consistencyto do it weekly?
I'm assuming you do it weekly,or is this biweekly or monthly?
I apologize for not knowing.
Yeah, weekly.
So how do you get the energyand the planning and everything
to do all that?
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Well, I found that I used to.
When I started off, early on, Iwas doing it every two weeks
and then I wanted to become moreconsistent with it.
And then I wanted to becomemore consistent with it and you
know it's.
I set this goal of trying to,you know, interview a coach from
every state in the country.
(39:27):
And because early on I startedout, I just basically had all of
my coaching friends and peoplethat I know here in Ohio.
But now that I've expandedthroughout the country and I
think you know I've had like 35states so far Canada, you know,
and even got a Chinese coach now.
(39:48):
So, you know, with you.
But it's, it's one of thosethings.
There are times when I say tomyself I'm too tired, I don't
want to do it, but then it'slike there's nothing pushing me
(40:09):
other than myself, almost likehow teams say you're not
competing against some opponentor the guys across the field,
you're competing with yourself.
And out of stubbornness, I justwant to keep doing it.
I want to keep trying to putsomething out every week.
(40:29):
And it gets challenging attimes because there's a lot of
work that goes in it, becauseI'm a one-man operation.
I research, I find the people,I do the research on them, I
market it.
I'm a one-man operation.
I research, I find the people,I do the research on them, I
market it.
I have to edit it, I have to doit all and it also helps that
you know, now that I'm, you know, in a state where I had to take
(40:53):
disability retirement fromcoaching and teaching, I have a
little more time.
And it's fun because, well, youdo a tremendous job, yeah, but I
get to meet people like you,which you know, you know, 99
times out of a hundred I wouldnever, ever meet you, probably
in our lifetime.
But now I get to walk away fromthis and you know I learned
(41:16):
something and you know the firstthing I'll do is I get to.
You know my wife's going to say, all right, what was this guy
like, you know, and so you knowI go right back and I start
rehashing everything that we didand it just means so much to me
that you take the time to dothis.
But also, when I have peoplethat I run into and they go oh
(41:40):
my God, I listened to this guy,you know, and and the person who
hooked me up and gave me yourname, I just recently was in a
parking lot and a coach came upto me and he goes.
I was on a trip back fromFlorida and I just listened to
that coach.
You had on from Kansas.
You know I really enjoyed thatand thanks for what you're doing
.
And you know it's justsomething I do because it's fun
(42:04):
and you know, maybe he gotsomething out of that.
So that's kind of why I do itand the long way of sharing it,
but you know it's Well no.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
I appreciate it.
I appreciate it.
I'm going to tune in.
I go on walks in the morning.
I've been doing digging deepwith Eric Hosmer.
I enjoy that, so I'll be tuninginto you.
And then, now that I got yournumbers, you got to watch out.
It's a little dangerous.
So I'll send you a few contactson my phone.
I got I got some good ones thatyou might want to reach out to
(42:35):
and and see what those guys haveto say.
And then next spring I and seewhat those guys have to say.
And then next spring I don'tknow what you're doing but hit
me up again and maybe we'll putone of my players on and they
can tell you a story of how meanI am and maybe we see how it
looks from the player'sperspective.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
Sounds good.
Well, will, before we started,you said you had to take your
young daughter to a dance lesson.
So it's Will Gordon, RockhurstHigh School Coach.
Thanks a ton.
That wraps up another episodeof Baseball Coaches Unplugged.
Huge thanks to Coach WillGordon sharing his powerful
journey from Rockhurst to Chinaand back again.
(43:13):
If you enjoyed today'sconversation, make sure to
subscribe, leave a review andshare the episode with another
coach who could use theinspiration.
As always, I'm Coach KenCarpenter.
Thanks for listening toBaseball Coaches Unplugged.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Thank you.
Hello and welcome to Baseball Coaches Unplugged,
where I sit down with coachesfrom around the country and in
this case, around the world andbring real stories and
strategies from the best coachesand minds in the game.
Today we're joined by a coachwhose baseball journey has taken
him from across state lines andacross the globe, from coaching
(00:22):
in Kansas and Missouri toleading MLB's development
efforts in China.
Coach Will Gordon brings aunique perspective to the dugout
.
Now back to where it all began,at Rockhurst High School.
Coach Gordon shares hisinsights on building culture,
international coaching lessonsand what it takes to lead a
successful high school programin today's game.
(00:44):
To lead a successful highschool program in today's game
Rockhurst High School head coachWill Gordon.
Next on Baseball CoachesUnplugged.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Welcome to Baseball Coaches Unplugged with Coach Ken
Carpenter, presented byAthleteOne.
Baseball Coaches Unplugged is apodcast for baseball coaches,
with 27 years of high schoolbaseball coaching under his belt
, here to bring you the insidescoop on all things baseball,
from game-winning strategies andpitching secrets to hitting
drills and defensive drills.
We're covering it all.
(01:12):
Whether you're a high schoolcoach, college coach or just a
baseball enthusiast, we'll diveinto the tactics and techniques
that make the difference on andoff the field.
Discover how to build a winningmentality.
Inspire your players and getthem truly bought into your game
philosophy Plus.
Get the latest insights onrecruiting, coaching, leadership
and crafting a team culturethat champions productivity and
(01:34):
success.
Join Coach every week as hebreaks down the game and shares
incredible behind-the-scenesstories.
Your competitive edge startshere, so check out the show
weekly and hear from the bestcoaches in the game.
On Baseball Coaches Unplugged.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Today's episode of Baseball Coaches Unplugged is
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The netting pros specialize inthe design, fabrication and
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Hello and welcome to BaseballCoaches Unplugged.
I'm your host, coach KenCarpenter, and wow do we have a
very interesting guest fortoday's show and I really think
you're going to enjoy thestories he shares about the
(02:57):
differences between players inthe US and the players that are
playing the game in China.
Got one simple ask If youenjoyed today's show, be sure to
share it with a friend and, ifyou get a chance, leave us a
review.
It helps us to grow the show.
Now let's get to our sit-downwith Coach Will Gordon,
(03:20):
rockhurst High School inMissouri.
Thanks for taking time to be onBaseball Coaches Unplugged.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Hey, always good to talk to another member of the
coaching community and I've doneit across various different
aspects.
I'm excited to get theopportunity to talk to you today
.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Well, you're back at Rockhurst High School and I
guess I want to start off withyou know how are you blending
the culture and expectations ofyour past coaching experiences
into this new chapter you havegoing at Rockhurst?
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Well, last year was my first year to be back at
Rockhurst, after I had a shortstint there for four years, as
an assistant coach as well,prior to.
So I feel like this is mysecond run, which is nice to
know the lay of the land andalso the times in between.
Between 2011 and 2025.
(04:14):
I spent 14 years kind ofgrowing up, learning the game a
lot more literally, went andcoached around the world during
that time and I've been I'vecoached in China, china and been
the head coach of two otherhigh schools on the state of
Kansas in those times, but allof that kind of blends itself
into what do we want to do as aunit, what do we want to do as a
(04:36):
team?
The school itself is Jesuit inits background, and so I feel
like that gives us a strongfoundation and culture that we
can always kind of tie back intoas well.
It's a school that's seen a lotof success, especially in the
football side.
It's yet to win a statebaseball title.
It's had a couple of bigleaguers roll through there as
well, and one of the firstthings I'm doing is trying to
(04:58):
tie back into those roots as towho was here.
Why was this important.
What are we doing and how canwe move forward together as a
unit?
So I look back towards reallythe past and kind of you know
what can we do and what lessonscan we learn from those guys
over here, why did it mean somuch to them and how can we move
forward using those lessons?
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Well, what drives your passion for coaching, both
high school and you know yourinvolvement with?
I believe it's like a clublevel team there in Kansas City
area.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Yes, so I've been involved in various clubs and
organizations.
I currently am employed byMackensites, which Mike
McFarland and Kevin Seitzerstarted a while back, and I
worked for Building Championshere in town for a long time.
And I I I told my son the otherday he's nine.
I said, you know, I knew when Iwas 12 that I wanted to be a
coach and just like any othercoach, it has nothing to do with
(05:55):
wins and losses, it haseverything to do with
relationships, the fact that Iget the opportunity to go meet,
and it surprises you every year,right, like you think, oh, this
class is so special there's notgoing to be another one like it
, and it's a different kind ofspecial every time, and I think
that's what A keeps me feelingso young and B really drives me
(06:16):
to get the opportunity just toshare and inevitably learn from
them.
That's how I feel like I reallygrow in.
The game is.
Each year I learn somethingmore from a player than I do,
probably imparting stuff on myown, so I truly appreciate the
opportunity to go out there.
That's my passion, is what canI learn from these young men?
(06:36):
And then maybe, if I'm lucky,what can I have the opportunity
to teach them, because it goesway beyond the lines too.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Most coaches never get a chance to coach overseas
and you mentioned earlier youknow you've been to China with
the MLB and what's the biggestlessons that you've brought back
here to the US from thatexperience coaching overseas?
Speaker 3 (07:04):
You know, when you first get a job working for
Major League Baseball, you havethis expectation and this
thought oh my gosh.
You know, first paycheck saysMajor League Baseball and you're
super excited.
And we traveled 7,000 milesaround the world.
And, just like every other partof this game, you get humbled
pretty quickly by the game.
And you look at the facilitiesand, and it's just, you're
(07:27):
living in china, um, and, andit's quite different, um, living
in china for a lot of reasons,um, but one is I got 42 players.
They're all ages 11 to 16 yearsold and none of them speak
english.
And, uh, my first, first dayoff there, I went for a little
(07:47):
look, see, and they gave me achance.
I'm off the plane, uh, and it'sless than 24 hours and my head
boss tells me hey, I want you togo work with this young man on
hitting.
And I'm like, okay.
So we walked down there and andit's dead silent.
I mean, he, we're not going tohave a conversation.
We put a ball in the tee, we dofront flips, I throw him some
(08:08):
BP, we talk a little bit just bymoving motions and things like
that, and we communicated.
And so you want to talk aboutwhat did I take back?
More than anything was a newway to communicate.
What I always tell guys youknow me, with 42 guys that
didn't speak the languagetogether, I can do anything with
(08:29):
anybody in the united states,we'll be just fine.
Uh, we can communicate in termsof that.
And then then the funny thingabout the, the kid that I took
down and go hit.
We don't talk the entire time,we get done, we walk up and my
boss says, well, how'd he do tothe kid hitting?
He was like perfect english.
Oh, you know, he does prettygood.
He knows exactly what he'stalking about with hitting.
And I was like you understoodenglish the whole time, had had
(08:52):
no idea, but my boss wanted tosee what it was going to be like
.
You know, hey, go see, go seeif you can teach this kid who
doesn't know anything.
Um, and so really the big thingI took back was how lucky we are
here in the United States aswell, how privileged we are when
I see an 11-year-old kid whogets to see his parents once a
week, once a year, excuse me anddoing his own laundry, and our
(09:17):
kid from Tibet who has literallyshowered twice a year for his
whole 14 years growing up and Ihave to explain hey, bud, after
showers we got to hit theshowers after practice.
It really makes you appreciatethe game here.
It makes you see a lotdifferently and I had some
pretty cool moments over theretoo.
But bringing that attitudeevery time back to the field
(09:41):
when I watch those kids overthere, the appreciation for the
opportunity that they had is soamazing.
And then to then hopefullytranslate that a little bit to
our kids here in the UnitedStates at every level, you know
this is, this is an opportunityeach and every day to go out and
do something that not everybodygets to, and don't take it for
(10:01):
granted.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Well, that, that is just mind boggling.
I can't even for granted.
Well that is just mind-boggling.
I can't even imagine that.
And you know, I was kind ofwondering.
You know the difference betweenthe kid here in the US that's
playing high school, he's onsome elite travel team, and then
you've got a kid, like you said, from Tibet.
Those differences have to behuge, I guess, and it's maybe
(10:29):
not so much the baseball side ofit, but it's their lifestyle, I
would think.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Yeah, the kid from Tibet.
You know, one of the uniquethings over there is we all kind
of gave them American names,mainly because it's very
difficult for me to yell WongWei Hao, which was one of my
kids' names, where I can justcall him Willie and that's
easier.
But the kid from Tibet, hechose the name Roger for Roger
Clemens and he was thisleft-handed pitcher and he just
(10:56):
won.
For the first time ever, hepitches for Team China now they
beat Chinese Taipei and he's theupwards of 90 miles an hour and
this is a kid that, like I saidwhen I tell you how to, I had
to tell him how to take a shower, like hey, bud, you got to do
this every day.
The next day in my office, mysecretary meets me and she's
like hey, I need you to talk toRoger.
(11:17):
Did he, did he not took ashower?
Could you tell me?
Needs to wear clothes to andfrom the shower, though he just
had his towel and all his glorygoing back and forth and it was
just.
Yeah, so it was a trip, but youlook at that kid and here's a 90
mile an hour arm at the.
(11:38):
You know, beat chinese taipeiand he's given an opportunity
and, um, that's pretty much whatall those kids are looking for.
Right, there is just thatunique opportunity that's there
as well.
So it was definitely anexperience, for sure.
I was in India for a week MajorLeague Baseball Summit in India
and with the mindset of, okay,what do cricket players?
(11:59):
You know, you've seen MillionDollar Arm that was kind of the
deal.
There was only one field in allof India while we were there
and we got to be on that fieldand there's some talented
players over there.
The game is definitely growingand it was just once again, this
opportunity to do somethingthat could give them another
opportunity and it was reallyfun to see as well.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Now, were there any other parts of the world that
you had a chance to coach in, orwere those the two main ones?
Speaker 3 (12:30):
So I coached in China , I coached in India and then I
coached in Taiwan.
I was the 14U coach for theChinese national team in Taiwan
for, like the Little LeagueWorld Series, which I always
thought like we came within onegame of winning it, I thought it
would be hilarious to return tothe United States as the head
coach of China and having theirteam there.
(12:50):
But you know, you talk aboutexperiences.
To this day, chinese Taipei'sbatting practice was the most
impressive thing I've ever seenin my entire life.
They set up and they had alltheir hitters go through.
In the first round they hitnothing but balls through the
4-3 hole and I mean on theground through the 4-3 hole, one
(13:12):
through nine every time.
And then their second round,they went through the 5-6 hole
and it was on the ground everysingle time.
And the third round was rightup the middle and they needed to
hit that L screen, like thatwas their job.
Oh, and before that it was 10minutes of straight bunting and
all that occurred there, and soit was unique to see that.
(13:34):
And then in our championshipgame we had a kid who ended up
pitching for the Brewersorganization, starting for me,
and I don't know where their kidended up.
I'm sure he ended up somewhere.
We two 14 year olds so in 85,86, with just bangers for days
coming out of the hand, and Imean it was nothing, nothing
through the fourth, two outsground ball, right back to my
kid, right down the right fieldline and the wheels came off of
(13:58):
that bus rather quick.
But we gave them a run fortheir money, um, and and all
their coach could ask meafterwards was how do we teach
our kids how to hit home runs?
And I said I don't like.
You guys can hit the ballwherever you want.
That's best barrel control I'veever seen in my entire life.
Um, don't worry about hittingthe home runs.
So it was, it was unique to seethat perspective clean fielding
(14:18):
, um, and just a, an incredibleum reverence I want to say for
the game.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
And they throw all the time.
Would you say that theshowmanship and the bat flipping
and the 35 things in their backpocket and everything that's
probably not happening a wholelot over there, I would guess.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
No, there's a Japanese school in shanghai that
would come over and we were.
The place where I was was threehours away, okay, and I would
get to the ballpark at 7 am andthose kids were there by 6 50 am
waiting for me to unlock thegate to go to our school and the
moms came with the bento boxesand they line up their helmets
and they line up their bats andthey ran in four groups of four
(15:05):
in unison, around the track inlockstep, before my kids even
came anywhere close to the yard.
I mean, it was just a differentthing.
You know, you see Shohei todaysay something to the umpire,
every at-bat commonplace, andand and to every player.
That I was telling my kids.
You know I always wondered whythey take off their hat before
(15:25):
they go into the field and theydo it twice actually, and it's
to thank the field for theopportunity to play on it and
then afterwards it's to saythank you for the opportunity to
have done this, and I justthink that's such a unique way
to go about looking at the gameand and and it's a.
It's a really cool thing tothink about every time you step
on a field, because you know wepush the hustle in between the
(15:45):
white lines.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
But, man, when you, when you take a moment and do
that, um it's, it's prettypowerful message wow, I and I
imagine now you're back here inthe us and you can really tie
everything that you've donethere to help you build a
consistent, winning program.
And what is there like acertain blueprint that you've
(16:09):
put together now that you've hadthis experience?
Speaker 3 (16:13):
You know, I don't know.
I think younger versions ofmyself, you know, probably
hammered in on the, I don't know.
I was probably hammered in onthe, I don't know, I was
probably too rough and there'snot enough sprints that we're
going to cure everything right.
And I think the most importantthing I've learned along the way
is kids change and I have to bewilling to adapt to that
(16:34):
mindset as well.
My 9-year-old constantlyreminds me of that too, and if I
expect them to bend to me toevery degree, it's not going to
work.
But what I want them to do isbend for each other, and I think
that's the most important thing.
When I look at continuity in aprogram year in and year out,
the biggest thing that I try tostress is that seniors have to
(16:55):
be service-minded leaders.
That is their job to serve.
If you want to be seen as aleader, you're serving your
teammates.
We have a rule in my programsthat I've been in that the
seniors are responsible forpicking everything up and
putting everything away, andthey have the.
They have the practice plan setup.
They have everything put up.
(17:16):
If there's a ball left out,they're the ones that answer to
it.
And I think I changed thatmindset because I was so used to
seeing it.
Well, you're the freshman, youget the balls, you know, or you
got to do this, you got to dothat.
And I thought that's not howthis works.
Like a, when you were afreshman, you didn't like you
treated like that by senior andB.
That's not how the real worldworks.
(17:37):
Like you better learn to goserve.
You, better be willing to pickup something for somebody else,
and that's what's going to getyou noticed and keep you around
in whatever profession you'regoing to be in.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
You know you mentioned, you know early on
coaching how you the sprints anddifferent things.
You know it kind of dulled amemory that I had one year early
on when I was coaching.
We came up as a team but wecame up with the idea that for
every run we give up.
That's how many sprints we gotto do after a game.
(18:08):
And the guys just didn't likeno player loves after a game to
do sprints but it was amazinghow motivated they were to not
give up runs, especially thepitchers and you know you hate
to say you know there's apunishment or however you want
(18:31):
to look at it, for giving upruns, but they really took pride
in not giving up runs and Ithink we ended up winning like
24 games that season and youknow, know we had a nice season.
So it's funny because how youcan look back on how you used to
coach and how you've adaptedand changed over the years.
Do you find yourself in thatsituation too?
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Oh yeah, all the time I can't.
My players always tell me ohman, you've gotten so much
easier, so much softer, and Ilike to remind them well, you
guys just weren't very talentedso I had to be hard.
Talent, talent solves a lot ofproblems.
Um, but at the same time youknow one of my former guys I
played college with he.
He led the conference inhitting twice.
(19:14):
He was my assistant coach thispast year and my second year as
head coach, and the first time Iwas head coach.
He said are you still makingguys run the mile?
I said yeah, timed mile.
Yeah, stop doing that.
And I was like why?
And he's like, where would Ihave finished in that mile?
Every year?
I said dead last.
I said he goes.
Did I ever finish last in theconference in hitting?
No, you finished first.
(19:36):
Right, yep, he goes.
Okay, he goes.
You can run the mile all youwant, but look for those guys in
the back and hit them three orfour holes and see how he turns
out.
But I learned that you learnsomething each year and some
years are.
This was year one in a programfor me and so did the seniors
knock it out of the park withtheir service?
Absolutely not.
Did they do the best they could?
(20:05):
Yes, is it a yes, um, and so Ithink, more than anything, over
the years I've learned patience,um, and maybe, maybe, some
grace, uh, whereas before Imight not have had as much.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
So it's just a year-to-year thing well, what is
something you believe in aboutcoaching or player development
that maybe most coaches mightnot agree with you on, or at
least you know they might see itdifferently?
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Boy?
That's a great question.
I believe in having hardconversations.
I really believe in those.
I believe in absolute honestybetween players and coaches and
this might be a littlecontroversial.
I have no problem having thoseconversations with parents.
You know, first and foremost, Itell parents I'm a parent, hey,
I want to.
(20:52):
I'm going to protect your kids,even from you sometimes.
That's number one for me.
I'm going to see them every day.
We're going to go to work everyday together.
I'm going to love them.
So they're my first priority.
And I said we're going to learnto have hard conversations
because that's what life's goingto be about.
And, let's face it, it's aboutone thing playing time.
Right, I don't beat around thatbush either.
(21:12):
I know there's a lot of peoplesay I won't want to talk about
playing time.
I've never had a conversationthat wasn't about playing time
uh, when it comes to a kid, andso my, I think maybe the biggest
thing that takes people back ismy willingness to go ahead.
You want to have a good talk?
Sure, let's go ahead, let's gosit down.
You may not like what you haveto hear, what I have to say, um,
but this is what I believe in.
(21:34):
I've never sat down once towrite a lineup to screw a kid,
um, and you and I might sitthere and have difference of
opinion, but I'm not one ofthose closed door guys.
I'm not one of those.
It's an open door program.
You're more than welcome tocome sit down and have that
conversation with me, and we'llsee where we are at the end of
it and go from there.
There'll be growth on all sides, because there's a lot of times
(21:55):
where I don't know something ormaybe I need to just listen,
and maybe that's okay toosomething, or maybe I need to
just listen and maybe that'sokay too.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Yes, I always made myself open to parents and you
know, I think sometimes itprobably drove my wife crazy
because I take calls at night orwhatever and things like that.
But I figured it was best tohave the conversation rather
than letting it just brew.
And you know, the biggest thingI always did was I was like
give it at least 24 hours andmaybe when you wake up in the
(22:28):
morning you might feel a littledifferently.
That's kind of what I wouldhope for.
But you got to have thoseconversations because you know,
everybody says parents are crazy.
But you know, ultimately theythey just love and care about
their son and they want, theywant to see them out there on
the field.
And that's a part of life,because once you get to out of
(22:51):
high school and you go into thereal world, it's it's mom and
dad ain't going to be able tohelp you with that kind of stuff
.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
But no, and I've to help you with that kind of stuff
.
No, and I found that havingthose conversations with the
parents and the players like themore I've done that, the more I
felt like I had moreconversations with players,
because they know and theirparents know there's nothing.
I'm not going to say one thingto one party and say something
to the other at all.
We're going to have the sameconversation and I like it
(23:22):
sometimes to have them both inthere because I don't know which
version is going to go home.
So let's just make sure weclean it up and move from there.
But I think the morestraightforward and honest you
be, like you said, the adversityis going to come at some time
and you're going to have to hearhard truth and you're going to
have to advocate for yourselfand sometimes you're going to
have to listen to somebody elsesay that you're not that way.
Maybe that's the impetus theyneed to be a better player,
(23:44):
better person, better parent,better worker later on, and I
think that's important toinstill early on.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Yeah, and I always remind myself that anytime I had
a conversation like that, tomake sure you had make sure I
had another coach with me, youhad make sure I had another
coach with me.
And you know I had one coach.
He always wanted to be therewith me and he was a human
resources director.
So this guy was like he had hisnotepads, he had everything
(24:13):
going, which you know.
I appreciate it, becausesometimes you forget what may
have been said and you know heseemed like he always had it
written down.
So that's good.
But when you're a're a coach,you got to really have somebody
else in there just to make surethat things don't get twisted or
out of hand.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
I guess you could say yeah, and I've invited athletic
directors.
I've my last times.
I've had two young assistantslast two years.
One of them just took a headjob this last year, had an
outstanding year, and I haveanother one that's younger.
It's actually a former playerof mine that's now my assistant.
It's a great opportunity forthem.
It's free practice for them.
(24:52):
They don't have to own any ofthe decisions that are being
made.
I would say there's no betterrole than being a varsity
assistant coach because Causeyou get you don't have to handle
some of those headaches and youget to just work and do one
particular thing.
So I try to include those guysas much for their growth as it
is to protect a little bit ofwhat could happen.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Yes, and you know, I I think about that and I I had a
former player of mine that wasan assistant coach and and I had
to go to a title IX meetingwhich I had never experienced
before.
So I took him with me and whenwe met with the attorneys, the
attorneys asked me.
They said, is this yourattorney?
And I'm like, no, that's Stegs,he's one of my assistant
(25:36):
coaches.
You know, it was interesting togo through that experience
because they thought that we hadall these extra things and we
didn't, and they were like, okay, it makes sense now.
But you had mentioned your sonearlier and he's a young guy.
(25:57):
I mean, he's a young guy and Iguess, have you set goals for
him when it comes to the game ofbaseball and how you want him
to appreciate it and to be?
You know someone who does itbecause it's something he wants
to do.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
You know, I think my greatest fear early on was that
I would push too hard or maybebe too honest with where I see
him in the game.
And so it's been a pleasantjourney so far with him,
watching him learn to fall inlove with the game on his own.
(26:38):
Hopefully, is what I'm alwayshoping.
Do I push too hard sometimes?
Yeah, on its own, hopefully iswhat I'm always hoping.
Do I push too hard sometimes?
Yeah, do I overreact sometimes?
Sure, I'm not by far and away aperfect dad and I'm learning a
lot about.
I knew it was just an absolutewild ride, with throwing strikes
and everything else that seemsto come along with it.
(26:59):
But you know, he's got baseballcards and I'm watching him at
the Royals game the other dayand he's sitting there and
they're all showing each othercards and they're running down
and trying to get him ajumbotron, and that's what it's
about, you know.
And I asked our 9U team.
We didn't win a game this year.
(27:21):
I think we tied like our firstgame.
But I asked our 9U team wedidn't win a game this year.
I think we tied like our firstgame.
But I asked them allindividually.
I pointed at each one at theend of the season and said did
you have fun?
They said yeah, and do you wantto play again?
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Okay, that's it.
Then we did our job, we had fun, we got better, you understood
more leaving than you did comingin and you want to play next
year.
And we all know we don't knowwhat puberty looks like and we
don't know when it's going tostrike or hit or how, but it's
been a very fun thing to watchhim choose to be a catcher which
(27:51):
, my God, I would never choosein a million years to have
catchers.
But you know what?
You're constantly in the action.
He didn't mind getting hit withthe ball and, hey man, have had
it right right through there.
But uh, I will say the mostunique thing I've experienced
I've coached in state semifinalsand playoff games in the extra
(28:14):
innings and he, he can be upthere in the first inning
hitting and that feeling andthat pit in my stomach is way
bigger than it is any other time, any other place, and I just
have to go through my head.
Keep your mouth shut, justwatch him.
You know, make sure he swingsfast, fast.
But in his last at bat hepunches out and like three
(28:36):
straight pitches, like I thinkhe swung the second one and um,
I'm not saying anything, I goback to the dugout.
I was like hey, bud, how'd youfeel that bat felt powerful.
Okay, there you go, bud.
You felt powerful, punching out, looking.
Okay, we'll work on that nextseason.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
So it's been fun, you know, and the great thing about
what you said there and youknow, for any listener out there
that has a son playing, andregardless of what age level,
you know, I'm assuming it wasn'ttravel baseball right- no, I
mean, it's not.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
If we're traveling, I'm going to a beach and I'm not
watching Little League baseball.
That's not happening.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Right.
So you know, you see thesecrazy tournaments being played
and teams traveling and they'rebeing rated eight, you, nine,
you and all these things and youknow, at that age, like you
said, the most important thingis at the end of it, did you
have fun and do you want to doit again?
Yeah, Did you have fun and doyou want to do it again?
(29:42):
Yeah, that's how it should be atthat age.
And you know, some of the stuffthat I see going on, you know,
because of X is justmind-boggling.
It just blows my mind thatcoaches, I don't know, I guess
they have a shrine in theirgarage or something where they
hang up these plastic rings andbanners and things like that, I
(30:05):
guess.
How do you feel about that?
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Well, I run youth programs.
It's really interesting whenyou watch and you get to these
guys.
Usually dads quit coachingabout 13 or 14.
I have the same conversationwith them at 13 or 14.
If I could do it one more year,if I could do it one more time
over again and it's never wewould do more traveling.
It's never more, it's it's the.
(30:31):
The constant wish is to go backand develop or just be present.
Just be present a little bitmore and take away the need for
winning.
Because, let's face it, ifyou're doing a bracket, there's
two words I hate more thananything.
It's bracket play.
Because I look at my own son'steam.
My God, if we won thisnine-year tournament, we'd have
(30:52):
to sit on a ball field and winthree games on a Sunday after we
won three other games.
Like, what kid isn't going towant to go to the pool or go
play Star Wars or whateverthey're going to do, right?
And that's what's going to killit for them.
It's not that they're not goingto be any good, it's the fact
that they set up a field forthree freaking games in a row.
(31:13):
And then I think about the otherside, where and I don't think
I've posted a highlight yet onmy personal page of my son's
baseball journey, a couple ofpictures of him in gear or
whatever, right, but it's odd tome and maybe I'm unique in that
fact.
But at the same time I really goback to the old school
(31:35):
philosophy let's have fun, let'spractice more than we play, and
let's find a way to make eachouting something that we can
learn together.
And then we set small goalswithin those right Like we're
going to make sure that we'retrying to be in the right spot
for a double cut or the rightspot for a cut.
God knows, we ain't going toactually play catch in that, but
(31:58):
we might be in the right spotto where somebody has, you know,
and those are small wins.
We execute a pickoff, okay,great, okay, and we're going to
celebrate those small wins daily, which, I think, add up over
time.
But you're right, I think it'salso not my place and if that's
what your family chooses to doand that's what they choose to
pride, all power to you.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
I just have a sneaking suspicion by the time
you get done with it and youlook back on the journey, maybe
you'd approach it a littledifferent.
Well, can you share a moment,good or bad?
Speaker 3 (32:36):
that truly tested your leadership and how you
navigated it.
I tell you, though, one of theareas I'm most proud of myself
as a coach is as there's a youngman named Jack Jones, who
played for me at shiny missionEast for four years, and Jack's
(32:59):
father passed away on a planecrash from.
Jack was a young boy, 10, 11years old, and I'll tell you
this when I tell you we had acontentious relationship.
You can ask any kid on thatteam if we would go at it, if I
wouldn't lose my mind more, ifhe wouldn't lose his mind back.
We're talking.
He's a four-year varsitystarter, sec committed senior
year.
Just talent like you wouldn'tbelieve, but boy did we get
(33:20):
after it sometimes Tore hishamstring, real bad Injury at
the end of his sophomore season,I believe, and my proudest
moment is he had an interviewlater on and he said I was like
a dad-like figure to him, andthat, to me, was that was what
it was all about.
We had this relationship on thefield, we had this, and I didn't
(33:41):
set out trying to do that byany means, but for him to say
those words, that meant a lot tome.
That meant the world to me ofbad, tough, hard moments in that
(34:02):
relationship where I had tocall him and say, hey, man, I
lost it today, you know, and andhe had moments too where he had
to do that and but baseballfostered that relationship and
that was really important to meand it was one that I'm
particularly proud of to thisday well, I gotta hit you with
the question I asked every guesthate losing or love winning?
oh man, I think I know I wouldhate losing more than I love
(34:22):
winning.
Yes, I cannot stand it now.
That being said, we did it 24times this year, which was a new
record for me in a season likewe had a tough year.
But you know, we had 10 one runlosses and we out hit our
opponents on the season.
But boy, knowing those facts, Ithink are supposed to make me
(34:43):
feel better, but they sure don't.
If those 10-1 runs flipped inthe other column, I can sit here
and smile a little bit more.
But no, I, absolutely I despiselosing.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Um, uh, yeah, for sure I to ask you this You're in
that Kansas City area.
Are you a Chiefs fan by chance?
Speaker 3 (35:08):
I enjoy the Chiefs.
Yeah, we watch them here andthere.
Are you a Browns fan then?
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yes, a little world opposite of the spectrum on that
one, but yes, I am.
Well, I'm going to hit you witha Chiefs question here.
This is a little bit off topicof baseball, but who's more
important, andy Reid or PatrickMahomes?
Speaker 3 (35:31):
Man, that's tough, real tough on that.
Because you know, here I am onthe Andy Reid side of things and
I know that I'm a lot betterwhen I got a Patrick Holmes.
You know it's a lot easier tobe seen as a good coach with
good players than it is to be agood coach with a losing record
(35:55):
when that happens.
So I got to say that probablythe Patrick of my home is
probably the secret, but at thesame time you got to play the
strings and the management ofthe clubhouse and all those
things are probably good.
But yeah, I've had some.
I was always a lot better coachwhen I had a lot better talent.
Let's put it that way.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
No doubt you know and that question also can be
applied to the Tom Brady BillBelichick situation which some
people can look at it twodifferent ways.
But if you've got talent you'rea little bit better coach every
time, that's for sure All right, let's go with the Kansas City
(36:36):
Royals.
All right, let's hit with theKansas City Royals right here.
All right, let's go with theKansas City Royals.
All right, let's hit with theKansas City Royals right here.
You have two players today thatyou can take and put on your
current Royals roster.
Who would you take?
Group A, you get George Brettand Zach Greinke.
Or Group B and this is withoutinjuries Bo Jackson and Brett
(37:00):
Saberhagen.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
Oh man, that's a good question.
I got to go with George and Igot to go with Grinke.
Just the overall consistency.
Now, don't get me wrong, boJackson is the greatest athlete
on the planet to probably everlive, in my opinion.
I mean, it's just nobody's everdone anything with that.
Guy has ever done uh, period.
(37:25):
But for the longevity the jawuh that george had and for the
insanity of winning at cy youngon a losing team was that grinky
?
You got to take that guy.
I mean that guy's so beyondweird in the stories with him
and flipping balls over andeverything that he did.
But he showed up and won a lotof games and those two guys
(37:49):
besides seeing Brett and BobbyWitt Jr on the same side of the
infield would be something else.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Yes, definitely.
You know they've had some goodteams.
They've had some great players.
One of those guys I would loveto talk to, george Brunson, on
the podcast, but I think I wouldprobably have a little bit more
fun with Granke, because he'sdefinitely got some craziness to
him.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
I guess you could say I just think you'd have to
wonder what questions he's goingto ask you.
That's where you'd have to beprepared for that.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Well, I tell you what .
Since you just threw that outthere, let's finish on this one.
You mentioned before we startedrecording that you've tried
your hand at podcasting.
What question would you ask me?
Speaker 3 (38:44):
What question would I ask you?
Well, what is it?
How do you get the consistencyto do it weekly?
I'm assuming you do it weekly,or is this biweekly or monthly?
I apologize for not knowing.
Yeah, weekly.
So how do you get the energyand the planning and everything
to do all that?
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Well, I found that I used to.
When I started off, early on, Iwas doing it every two weeks
and then I wanted to become moreconsistent with it.
And then I wanted to becomemore consistent with it and you
know it's.
I set this goal of trying to,you know, interview a coach from
every state in the country.
(39:27):
And because early on I startedout, I just basically had all of
my coaching friends and peoplethat I know here in Ohio.
But now that I've expandedthroughout the country and I
think you know I've had like 35states so far Canada, you know,
and even got a Chinese coach now.
(39:48):
So, you know, with you.
But it's, it's one of thosethings.
There are times when I say tomyself I'm too tired, I don't
want to do it, but then it'slike there's nothing pushing me
(40:09):
other than myself, almost likehow teams say you're not
competing against some opponentor the guys across the field,
you're competing with yourself.
And out of stubbornness, I justwant to keep doing it.
I want to keep trying to putsomething out every week.
(40:29):
And it gets challenging attimes because there's a lot of
work that goes in it, becauseI'm a one-man operation.
I research, I find the people,I do the research on them, I
market it.
I'm a one-man operation.
I research, I find the people,I do the research on them, I
market it.
I have to edit it, I have to doit all and it also helps that
you know, now that I'm, you know, in a state where I had to take
(40:53):
disability retirement fromcoaching and teaching, I have a
little more time.
And it's fun because, well, youdo a tremendous job, yeah, but I
get to meet people like you,which you know, you know, 99
times out of a hundred I wouldnever, ever meet you, probably
in our lifetime.
But now I get to walk away fromthis and you know I learned
(41:16):
something and you know the firstthing I'll do is I get to.
You know my wife's going to say, all right, what was this guy
like, you know, and so you knowI go right back and I start
rehashing everything that we didand it just means so much to me
that you take the time to dothis.
But also, when I have peoplethat I run into and they go oh
(41:40):
my God, I listened to this guy,you know, and and the person who
hooked me up and gave me yourname, I just recently was in a
parking lot and a coach came upto me and he goes.
I was on a trip back fromFlorida and I just listened to
that coach.
You had on from Kansas.
You know I really enjoyed thatand thanks for what you're doing
.
And you know it's justsomething I do because it's fun
(42:04):
and you know, maybe he gotsomething out of that.
So that's kind of why I do itand the long way of sharing it,
but you know it's Well no.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
I appreciate it.
I appreciate it.
I'm going to tune in.
I go on walks in the morning.
I've been doing digging deepwith Eric Hosmer.
I enjoy that, so I'll be tuninginto you.
And then, now that I got yournumbers, you got to watch out.
It's a little dangerous.
So I'll send you a few contactson my phone.
I got I got some good ones thatyou might want to reach out to
(42:35):
and and see what those guys haveto say.
And then next spring I and seewhat those guys have to say.
And then next spring I don'tknow what you're doing but hit
me up again and maybe we'll putone of my players on and they
can tell you a story of how meanI am and maybe we see how it
looks from the player'sperspective.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
Sounds good.
Well, will, before we started,you said you had to take your
young daughter to a dance lesson.
So it's Will Gordon, RockhurstHigh School Coach.
Thanks a ton.
That wraps up another episodeof Baseball Coaches Unplugged.
Huge thanks to Coach WillGordon sharing his powerful
journey from Rockhurst to Chinaand back again.
(43:13):
If you enjoyed today'sconversation, make sure to
subscribe, leave a review andshare the episode with another
coach who could use theinspiration.
As always, I'm Coach KenCarpenter.
Thanks for listening toBaseball Coaches Unplugged.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Thank you.
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