September 4, 2023 • 54 mins
Are you ready for a trip down memory lane? We kick things off with a discussion on the resurgence of USENET, exploring why it's making a comeback and how it has evolved over the years. Join us as we unravel the history and significance of this online forum, shedding light on its enduring relevance in the digital age.
We'll also give you the latest news from around the Apple world, including Apple putting the 2017 MacBook Pro into "Vintage" status, and a preview of the "Wonderlust" event coming up on September 12th, where Apple will announce new models of the iPhone and Apple Watch, and tell us the release dates for the new operating systems. Speaking of those, Jeff gives us an update on how the betas are progressing.
We wrap up our discussion by exploring the potential of the iPad as an "only computer" device. Should you do it? Can you do it? Well, it depends, and we're here to help you figure it all out.
Links from the show:
USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenix
2017 MacBook Pro with Touch Bar now considered ‘vintage’ and won’t get macOS 14
Apple Event
Giving up the iPad-only travel dream
Question or Comment? Send us a Text Message!
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Jeff B (00:00):
to them useless as two sticks all right, walk back.
Tom A (00:20):
Everybody is a new episode of basic a, fb a, f.
Back at it again.
Tom a, jeff b.
Don't as little dance there.
You can see it like you, but Ican.
But it is friday night.
Is the friday night?
Jeff B (00:32):
chic down right we're dancing, we're dancing time,
we're doing all the things youshould be doing something friday
night.
I don't know if it was adrinking and it sounds smoking,
I'd say screw it, but we're notI see the show's kicking off,
just like the pre-show nonsensedid right that, which is a good
thing there's nothing wrong withthat.
Tom A (00:49):
No, you guys say that we have eleven minutes out takes.
Jeff B (00:55):
I'm already interrupting you, it's only that it's were
worth thirty seconds in.
Alright, I'm shut my mouth now.
Tom A (00:59):
We're really thirteen minutes and but only a minute of
the show he's.
So welcome back everybody.
Thanks again for being here.
We do appreciate very much andif you're a new and if stumbled
upon this little thing, we doappreciate you checking us out
and giving us a shot.
We hope to earn a spot on yourplaylist.
If you've got any feedback atany point, feel free to email us
its feedback at basic af showdot com.
(01:21):
The website's the same thing wecan peruse the entire catalog
is.
Jeff B (01:25):
Jeff likes to say mm-hmm , you want to say it sure peruse
the entire catalog with lots ofgood shows you can go back to
uh, don't just start here who Ilike.
Tom A (01:36):
That's good with this episode nice, which is, I think,
seventeen we're up to.
Jeff B (01:40):
We're seventeen years old, I mean seventeen shut.
I wish way past that.
Tom A (01:47):
Yeah, as I got reminded, it worked the other day, so that
was nice.
Oh, good for you.
Yeah, yeah, tom, you're so old.
Yeah, thanks whatnineteen-year-old?
Jeff B (01:53):
uh, I'm just a co-worker at all.
Tom A (01:55):
Yeah, really yeah yeah, oh well, um, I mean, I wasn't
alive, but still yeah, right,but I still hurts not as much as
I used to.
I'm kind of getting over it.
Uh, so, basic af show dot comis the website with all the
episodes.
Of course, apple podcastspotify all the other players as
(02:15):
well.
If you would like to get someadditional commentary, tips,
tricks, app recommendations, Isend out a little newsletter
every now and then.
You can get to that attomfandersoncom.
Uh, like to have you sign upthere.
That'd be great.
Yes, it would all right.
So this show we've got a coupleof things.
We're going to roll through acouple of news updates, uh, some
(02:38):
a little bit of topicality upfront and, uh, we'll roll
through that and then we'regoing to talk about the ipad a
little bit.
Jeff B (02:47):
Yeah, sounds like fun ipad and maybe a little beta
beta talk yes, beta updates, asthose are winding down yes,
absolutely true.
So, tom, the big thing speakingof old I'm not talking about
myself, of course um usenet isback.
Remember usenet, tom, I do, Ido too where you why don't get?
Tom A (03:11):
mad when people say I'm old because I am.
Jeff B (03:14):
I remember these things actually, technically, I don't
think that usenet was ever gone,usenet being the original, uh,
one of the original socialnetworks, if you want to call it
that all text based um, whereyou, uh, you signed up with your
what was it?
19-bot modem.
(03:34):
You know the squawk, squawk,squawk.
You get on and somebody picksup the phone and screws you up
so you can't talk on it anymore.
But I need the phone, yeah,yeah, don't pick it up.
What do you mean?
You picked it up?
Uh, what days?
Yeah, those were the wonderfuldays and and some people listen
this is gonna go.
What are you talking about?
Tom A (03:54):
don't, don't, don't, don't, click off of us just yet,
well, well, yeah, I wouldn'tknow what I'm doing, right, hang
around, hang around and inwe're gonna talk about the time
I had the hemorrhoids, jesus umI know you're welcome.
Jeff B (04:07):
Now they're tuning out, for sure anyway, usenet was a uh
text based.
It still is a text based,essentially social network.
It is actually the place that Ilearned to program in lisp, so
let's talk about that.
That was about 5 000 years agowhen I was taking a program in
class.
(04:27):
But it's a uh.
It's basically basically amessage board where you can go
get information, pull downinformation from there.
There were apparently a bunch ofclients as the, the internet or
the computers got moregraphical, but my recollection
(04:48):
of that was using the terminalapplication, popping on a once I
was connected to the internet,feel my dial-up modem, putting
in some usenet informationterminal and then being able to
run commands to see theinformation that was sitting
there.
So all the uh insidious stuffthat you see on the major social
(05:09):
networks now twitter, uh, whichis no longer called that, but
I'm not going to call it whatthat guy calls it, um facebook,
any of those other places um,all of that kind of started on
usenet and you can get on it.
Now there are a coupledifferent uh clients apparently
for every os and you've got theability to uh start looking at
(05:31):
things like recartssfwritten andrecartssffandom not exciting as
that you know, tom, I missthose days.
Well, a little nostalgic.
Tom A (05:45):
So I got introduced to those.
Well, I think I stumbled ontothose through the so kind of my
introduction to everything wasthe online services, right, so
American online CompuserveProdigy, they all had those.
And these were also called newsgroups.
News groups is correct, yeah,and they were kind of segmented
(06:09):
out by topic.
So you would have tech topics,you could have writing topics,
history, general news, whateverthe case was, and you would jump
on there and they were.
You know, like Jeff said, theywere definitely precursors to
some of the social things wehave now.
I think probably most likeReddit yeah.
(06:29):
Yeah, I think so, and the thingwas, though then there wasn't
like you didn't get, thealgorithm pushes to amplify
certain things, because it was.
That's a shame it really is sosorry to hear that.
Yeah, those things suck, and Ithink it was just messages like
you would go and you would seethe message and then you would
(06:51):
kind of see them as they were.
So if they were a thread, youwould see it in sequential order
, and there was, there were someetiquettes that you had to
follow.
You had to make sure you putyour new message at the bottom
on the other message so peoplecould see what was leading you
to say what you said, or at youknow, or even at the top, but
don't dare put it in the middlesomewhere, because people would
(07:11):
still yell at you.
They would yeah.
So yeah, it's interesting thatit's kind of making its way back
.
Jeff B (07:18):
Yeah, it is interesting.
Artisanal computing, yeah, andI'd be interested to see.
I have not hopped on yet.
I might find myself a use netclient, just for giggles, to go
out and have a look.
But I do wonder if it's stillnot algorithmically pushing
(07:39):
garbage towards you.
So maybe it's a little likemake it bear in your bathtub.
You know, it's maybe not great,but it's your bear, you can
enjoy it.
Tom A (07:53):
Yeah, just like that.
So, there's your history lessonfor today.
Kids, You're welcome.
Jeff B (07:58):
You're welcome so two old farts doing a show.
That's us.
We're changing the name nextepisode yeah.
Tom A (08:04):
Two old farts.
And speaking of old things,that's what?
Yeah, that are history.
Apple has added the 2017MacBook Pro with Touch Bar to
the vintage list.
Jeff B (08:15):
Man.
You know that's kind of early,feels like, does seem quick.
Yeah, sunsetted that one alittle quick.
One of the things about that isthat there's still people I
know that are using them Colin,who I've said by name, so I
won't say who he is, but Colin,who I know I'm actually a child
(08:35):
of mine I don't usually givenames he had one of those and
loved it.
To be fair, though, he said healmost never used the touch bar.
So probably right that it'sgone, but it seems what are we
talking about?
That came out in 2017.
We're now in 2023.
(08:55):
Five years that's sorry.
Six years, because I can't domath Typically feels like I'd
have to go back and look if Ireally wanted to and see whether
or not it's more like eightyears is usually the cutoff
point for that, but I bet youtend to one, and one of the
(09:16):
reasons that they do shuttlethose things off to a vintage is
they no longer want to makeparts for them, so that touch
bar is gone.
I don't think we'll see it comeback.
Tom A (09:28):
Still can't believe they have that 13-inch MacBook Pro
with touch bar Still for sale.
That M2?
Still for sale.
Jeff B (09:36):
Is it a touch bar one?
I didn't realize that.
Tom A (09:39):
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I think you're probably still
right, but I don't.
It's a head scratcher whilethey still have that.
Jeff B (09:46):
Yeah.
Tom A (09:49):
Because we were buying those up until this past January
, I think it was, or spring,yeah and then we hopped on the
airs yeah, we hopped on the airsat that point, and so, yeah, I
didn't want to keep buying them.
But I think part of the reasonthey do it is it has a pro name
on it, for whatever reason, butthe 14s and 16s are a little out
(10:13):
of reach budget-wise for someplaces For us right, we couldn't
go to the 14 and 16, becausethey're definitely not 16.
But the 14 is even, you know,would stretch things very, very
thin, yeah.
And so I wonder about that.
But yeah, it's still around.
And I wonder too like I don'twant to put this how excited
(10:33):
Apple might be to just ridthemselves of all of the Intel
baggage.
Jeff B (10:39):
Yeah, Well, that goes without saying, I think.
Is that the last Intel device?
I think it is.
Tom A (10:43):
No, no, they've got 18s, 19s, I mean, they're all 13-inch
, 15-inch models.
Jeff B (10:49):
Oh, I'm sorry as far as what they're selling, oh.
Tom A (10:54):
I want to say it is, Since they did the pro, the Mac
Mini when they put the M2 Pro,and that that got rid of that
high-end Intel-based Mac Minithat they had and iMac's been M1
for 12 years now.
But yeah, I think it is.
(11:15):
I think that might be Okay.
Jeff B (11:18):
So, who knows, maybe that's part of the deal, but
yeah, seems to have one of those.
Tom A (11:22):
You're not in any immediate need to go out and buy
something else.
But Sonoma will be the lastmajor Mac OS update that you get
.
But you'll still get securityupdates, probably for another
one or two years, so a coupleyears.
Jeff B (11:37):
You're okay for now.
You can ride that thing for alittle longer.
Tom A (11:39):
Yep, you certainly can, Absolutely true.
Jeff B (11:42):
All right, cool, cool.
So goodbye, 2017 MacBook Pro,peace out.
Touchboard.
Yeah, peace, we had a littlebit of an announcement this week
, jeff.
What is the announcement?
Tom A (11:56):
Tom?
Surprising, no one.
There's a new iPhone coming outin September.
What Yep?
So the event?
What Wunderlust on September12th?
One o'clock Eastern time.
New phones watches probablysome watch bands.
Jeff B (12:13):
Yeah, speaking of watches, one interesting idea
that came up about those watchesis that the next watch is going
to be 3D printed, which isinteresting.
Tom A (12:26):
It is, at least I don't know what that says.
Jeff B (12:28):
Maybe that saves a lot of wasted metal, although
Apple's pretty good at notwasting that kind of stuff.
But that's kind of interesting.
I like the idea that that's 3Dprinted.
I am definitely looking forwardto the phone.
I'm not going to be updating mywatch, although there's some
rumor perhaps that we might havea darker model, ultra, so
(12:49):
something in the space grayrealm or something around there.
I don't know I'm pretty happywith the one I have.
The titanium that I have ispretty pretty still, yeah, yeah,
so we might see something likethat.
But yeah, as you're right, itcomes as no surprise.
This is Christmas in September,as it always is, or Hanukkah,
depending on.
Tom A (13:08):
Yeah, whatever you want it to be, doesn't matter we do
all of those things.
Jeff B (13:14):
But yeah, it's not a surprise and, looking forward to
it, I plan to get the nextphone.
Tom A (13:21):
Anything in particular you're looking or hoping for on
the phone, since you're going tobe picking one up.
Jeff B (13:29):
No, you know, I have this tendency to avoid all the
speculation about what might be,mostly because you know that
two days after the wanderlustannouncement, maybe one day
we're going to get, well, whatwe wish we had in the latest
(13:52):
iPhone 17.
Right, and then the next one'sgoing to be this.
It's like, yeah, I don't haveany.
Yeah, pay attention, I'm alwayslooking forward to new camera
capabilities.
That is the camera that is withme most often.
I take the majority of myphotographs now with the camera,
so I definitely look forward tosome of those options.
(14:16):
Other than that, I couldn'tthink of anything more that I
want, which is kind ofridiculous, but I don't know.
Is there anything that?
First of all, are you a yearafter year upgrade, or every?
Tom A (14:31):
two year upgrade.
I typically do every two, yeah.
Jeff B (14:34):
So this is my two year cycle.
That's the other piece of it,so I'm on that myself.
Tom A (14:39):
Is there anything?
Jeff B (14:41):
you're hoping it has.
Tom A (14:44):
Not really.
You have a 14 currently.
I've got a 14 pro.
Jeff B (14:48):
Yeah.
Tom A (14:48):
And so the always on display.
I got that.
With that, Got the dynamicisland thing on the front, which
is useful.
Jeff B (15:00):
Yeah.
Tom A (15:01):
I can't say I use it a whole lot, cause I typically
don't use my phone a whole lot,like for extended periods where
I need to be monitoring what'sup there and that thing, but it
is handy and I think it's it's aplayful feature to add.
Jeff B (15:17):
And there's something to be said for that, by the way
just certain that's fun, doesn't?
Tom A (15:22):
have to be amazing you know technological breakthrough
which could be whimsical andplayful and fun, but no,
otherwise, I mean I'm reallyhappy with the one I have.
The battery life has beenpretty good for me.
I know there were some articles, maybe a week or two ago or
before, there was write up aboutthe battery health for some of
(15:43):
the 14 seems lower than then youmight think it would be for it
being, you know, only a year oldor something.
But I haven't had that issue.
I checked mine.
Mine's still in good shape, sobut yeah, I've been happy with
it.
There's something that Ihaven't still been able to put
my finger on with the photosthat they feel over processed.
(16:06):
I even tried some with the appthat that you suggested, hey,
yeah, and that, honestly, Ididn't see too much of a
difference.
Really interesting, and so now Iwill throw a little bit of a
caveat to that is, I havestarted shooting more with the
Sony.
Jeff B (16:26):
And so.
Tom A (16:27):
I don't know, if you know , I'm seeing pictures from it.
It's like, oh wow, those arekeep zooming, keep zooming, and
they're very clear, so that thatcould be coloring my
perspective a little bit.
Jeff B (16:40):
I gotta say the same thing though the and I.
It's mostly in the photos app,and what's really weird about it
is when I take those photos anddo any editing directly in the
photos app, I'm noticing that itlooks one way when I finish
editing it and when I click doneand it saves it, it looks a
different way, and I don't knowwhether that's me being stupid.
(17:02):
Look at that, look on your face.
Tom A (17:04):
I was saying that that's not good Dork, or you, because
I'm a dork it's like you edit itto look a certain way and then
you click done and it doesn'tlook that way.
Yeah, and I'm not great.
Jeff B (17:14):
I haven't thought about doing a screen recording.
When I do that and it'stypically photos I have taken
using the photos app gone in andprocessed and brought back.
Anything that I'm doing withhalide now, which that has
become the default, with thatnice little double finger tap
that I that I do in the back ofthe phone that brings that app
(17:35):
right up.
That's pretty much all I'musing for photos, unless I have
a quick one off or, you know,somebody's taken pictures of a
group of people and I'm handingthe phone to somebody I don't
want them to have to, you knowyou know it's this right, but I
was noticing, noticing that andit would be interesting to see.
One of the things that's niceabout halide is it takes camera
(17:57):
raw Right, so it takes, it takesthose kinds of photos.
Apple does, I think, have rawcapabilities built into the
photo, into the camera as well.
But yeah, I've seen similarthings and I don't know if it's
because I've selected aparticular photo style.
Tom A (18:14):
Yeah, that's what I thought too, and where I noticed
it was like well, you know, wewent to the beach back in June
and I took the phone.
You're still tan, Tom, Well youknow it's summer's fading, but I
got to keep it going.
But I took the Sony as well andwhen I was and I could see it
in the photos app, right, I'mlooking through the photos and
I'm like, oh, there's one theSony took, oh, there's one the
(18:36):
phone took.
Why are the colors look sostrange and like this what you
just said.
I thought I had the photographicstyle selected, so I actually
went in to the settings thereand play with that and it wasn't
.
It was just on the standardsetting.
And so I don't know, I don'tknow if it's a software thing or
if it's just one of thosethings that once you see it it's
(18:57):
hard to unsee it.
And it's not necessarily bad,it's just different.
So you know it.
They're not terrible picturesby any means, but they're no,
they're, they just look a littlebit over processed.
Jeff B (19:10):
Little punchy yeah.
Tom A (19:12):
And fuzzy and little grainy in places and on the
phone they look okay.
It's usually when you put themup on the Mac and you start to
actually look at them at abigger size.
Yeah, these are so great.
Jeff B (19:23):
Yeah, we'll see Again.
Who knows what they do.
There's a lot of superprocessing like you said going
on.
Yeah, it's all computationalthese days, so yeah, and part of
that is you know you don't havelenses that actually can do the
things that a lens like on yourSony can do.
Where you've got physical,physical lenses that you're
playing with, that you adjustand that adjusts, you know what
(19:46):
it is and how it is that you'reseeing things.
Tom A (19:48):
So, who knows, maybe your sensors, all, kinds of stuff
and it's you know, and to beperfectly clear, I mean the
photo quality we get from phonesthese days is fantastic.
Oh right, I mean it's iPhones.
It's, you know, some of theAndroid top tier phones to great
photos as well.
So it's, and that's the one youhave with you.
(20:09):
And you know I'm not going tocarry the Sony around.
Special occasion I'll take it,maybe, and even then I don't use
it a ton.
Jeff B (20:17):
No right In what's the best camera to have is the one
that's with you.
It's the old adage, you know,doesn't matter which one you
have, as long as you have one.
Yeah, interesting, beinteresting to see, and I we're
going to get some excuse me,USB-C connections, I think, on
(20:37):
this, this phone as well.
It's probably means I need tobuy more cables, owed to joy,
actually, you know what?
That's not true, and this issomething I'll pop up.
So when I got all my stuffstolen, one of the things that I
picked up this is giving uscontent for months and I'm not
bitter.
I'm not bitter.
It's been a year almost, butI'm not bitter.
(20:58):
One of the things that I endedup getting is Apple sells a bag
safe charger that flips open.
One is for the watch and one isfor the phone and if you're
using those, if you're usingthose kinds of chargers, then
you won't need to get a specialcable for all the places that
(21:18):
you go.
That's one of the things I'mreally pleased about.
Thank you, thieves.
Wherever you are, I'm sureyou're listening to this podcast
, because that was actually agreat purchase, great for when I
travel.
Fold it up and it's not againanother cable like the Apple
Watch charging cable and that.
So if you're using any of the,using any of the MagSafe
(21:41):
charging capabilities thecordless charging that's
available it's a lot.
Don't feel what's that?
Yeah, I do like a lot too.
You don't need to worry aboutthat.
Tom A (21:53):
It's a good, all right, anything else?
Other cases, tom, I'm lookingfor watch bands.
Because I want to spend a fewmore hundred dollars but I feel
like we're due for some newbands for the ultra yeah you're
not here.
We haven't gotten any rightthat are specific to it.
Jeff B (22:16):
No, you're right.
Tom A (22:17):
Of course you can always use the other ones.
They don't.
You know, they look okay, butthey're not.
They don't quite.
They're not ultra man Well,neither am I so there's a blast,
so we'll see if we get some newwatch bands.
I'd be happy with that.
Jeff B (22:33):
Yeah, I would like that little disappointed and we'll
talk about betas maybe a littlebit later, but I am on all the
betas and all the things now thewatch faces on the beta.
I don't know if they're gonnado some other ones, but I'm not
Feeling it.
Mm-hmm, charlie bounds cute.
There's another one, that'sokay.
I'd like some watch faces.
Tom A (22:54):
Yeah, that's an ongoing thing.
Jeff B (22:57):
Yeah, there's just don't know.
Tom A (23:00):
Seems like even if there was, you know, a third-party
watch face and they had toapprove each one because, you
know I'm sure they don't wantcopyright stuff and that kind of
thing, and they don't even haveto be third-party.
I think if they're not going todo third-party, then Apple
takes on the responsibility, Ithink, of providing More and
better watch faces.
Jeff B (23:18):
Yeah, and they could do that a couple times a year, I
think.
Tom A (23:20):
so it's an easy, an easy upgrade, even sell, some People
would buy it.
I'm not saying I'd like it, butpeople would buy it.
People would buy it.
Yeah, right, especially youknow, 99 cents, 299, whatever,
yeah.
Jeff B (23:39):
Call me up to that ID in their head yeah save a spot for
me.
Good, good for you.
You're welcome.
Tom A (23:46):
I have to spend money on other stuff, yep, so you have
been running some betas I have,I have.
Jeff B (23:52):
I've been running all the betas on all except the
computer we're on.
Tom A (23:56):
Which is why I have you on FaceTime on the phone,
because I can't see you in therecording.
Jeff B (24:01):
Actually, on FaceTime right, because I couldn't update
.
Update this OS with the beta OSis a connection for the, for
the phone, and I got to saypretty solid all the way around.
I have been playing with a lotof that.
One of the things I've beenplaying on with on the iPad and
this maybe is a good segue intothe iPad is computer
(24:24):
conversation, is the, the newstage manager feature, which I
hate in the current iteration on.
You know the non beta versionsof Mac OS and and iPad OS and
Turned it off immediately.
Lot better job with the abilityto rearrange Windows, add
(24:48):
multiple windows, have windowson top of windows.
That's kind of a pain in theneck, I will admit it's not
Quite as intuitive as it is inthe macOS yet.
But right now I'm looking atthree Resized windows.
One is notes for the show, oneis that the I'm.
You know the messages Chat thatwe have.
And then I also currently haveyou up in the upper right-hand
(25:10):
corner, as far as way as I cankeep you from me.
Tom A (25:13):
In.
Jeff B (25:14):
FaceTime.
I've got dual FaceTime for you,one one in front of my face in
Riverside where we're recording,and the other one on this Off
to the side there.
But the way that this works nowreally sharp.
I actually might consider usingthis with some regularity.
One of the things I also reallylike about the the beta in the
(25:35):
iPad, which this is Silly, lowrent kind of thing but the fact
that you can use you can useLive pictures on the lock screen
, yeah, so that when you bringit up by the way, this is also
true of macOS itself Kind ofstunning.
(25:56):
I kind of have the same feelingabout that that I did when we
first talked about the.
The photos feature that kind offlipped your photos every time
you turned on, turned on the,the phone or the iPad, where it
would switch between you knowvarious pictures that you'd
taken that you've Selected youknow, friend of mine at work,
just started using that Just nowyesterday.
(26:19):
Yeah, just updated her phone soand wait.
Tom A (26:22):
Just updated their phone to 16, yeah, 16, what we're on
now?
Yeah, wow, and she listened, sobe nice to her, but she pointed
it out to me today that howmuch she liked that feature.
Jeff B (26:40):
Yeah, it's still one of my favorite features.
Tom A (26:42):
Likewise in that.
Jeff B (26:43):
Yeah, and the addition now of live photos on lock
screens stunning.
I have a waterfall picture thatI took in my backyard.
You know, not directly mybackyard, we kind of you know
swanky, half half a mile, half amile up in the woods behind my
house there's a pretty decentwaterfall and that is what.
When I unlock my iPad, that'swhat I see and that's all in
(27:07):
like Motion.
It's really beautiful and it'skind of slower than the normal
picture would be.
It's like it it speeds up andthen kind of slows down until it
stops.
It's really, it's beautiful,it's really nice.
Tom A (27:21):
I haven't seen that specifically, but have you
looked at the?
It's the new screensavers anddesktop on Sonoma.
Jeff B (27:28):
I have.
I turned it off to do my ownpicture, okay.
Tom A (27:31):
No, no, I did and that's, that is another similar to what
you said.
Jeff B (27:36):
Yeah, in the picture of Sonoma, I Gorgeous.
Tom A (27:42):
Yeah, oh my gosh, it really is, I think when, I first
installed the beta.
I sent that to you and I waslike this looks incredible.
Jeff B (27:47):
It really does, even on the, on the.
You know pre, when you, whenyou have to log into file vault,
it looks pretty, pretty slick.
There too, you know when youhave to log into the computer
for the first time.
One of the things about this OSis, when I say this OS, mac OS
in general, is the way thatApple Kind of grabs you with
(28:11):
those kinds of things.
It's not just an afterthoughtthat they tack on, it's one of
those things, it's a feature, areal feature that makes it so
your computer's yours.
Look at you, look at me likeI'm some kind of dork.
Tom A (28:25):
No, I was going to say, and Well, go ahead.
No, I was going to say it's notan afterthought.
Like the finder, I was gonnasave that for the iPad as a
computer thing.
But we'll get to that a coupleminutes.
Jeff B (28:44):
Yeah, so, yeah, yeah, you got it.
Yeah.
So I've got betas on my watch.
I've got betas on my MacBookPro.
I've not put it on this.
As soon as we finish recording,I'll put it on this, this Mac
mini, and have betas on the onmy iPad.
(29:11):
The only thing I don't know andthis is gonna kind of lead us
into the iPad as computerquestion the only thing that
really I don't know.
He just give me a desktop orgive me the option to turn on
the desktop.
I, you know I can appreciatethat we wanted this to be a
(29:32):
singular interface, that youtapped a button and it brought
up an application, but I reallyI don't know.
I let's, let's have the optionto make it a computer.
Don't make me open up the filesapp and then I have to see that
stuff to get to it.
You know I do have my desktopand iCloud drive can see all
those things.
Tom A (29:51):
I don't know.
So shall we just roll in to themain topic?
Jeff B (29:55):
Oh, tom, let's do it, let's do it.
Why not go ahead?
So the main topic is when wethis last week, jason snow,
formerly of Macworld, now the,the head dude at six colors,
that got a couple of otherpeople writing over there as
well Dan Moran's one of them,both Macworld guys and you other
(30:20):
people, actually another.
I noticed the other day anotherperson from back was there.
Hey, jason, sure bring me on.
Hey, one of the things that hehad in in his last, last post
was Trying to use the iPad as acomputer.
I picked this up, actuallythrough Derek fireball, and then
(30:41):
went over to to Jason's Jason'sbit, and what he's come down to
is that he's the title of thearticle is giving up the iPad
only travel dream, and what hewas talking about Was the idea
that he, you know, would be ableto leave his MacBook Pro or
MacBook Air or whatever he'scurrently using.
(31:03):
Actually, he's using a MacBookAir, leave that at home and take
the iPad with him to doeverything that he needs to do,
and he, like you, I believe,edits most of his podcast work
on his iPad.
You do that as well, correct?
Yeah, our podcast work.
You do the work, I just do the.
Tom A (31:22):
Hey, it seems to be working so well, just so far.
Just keep at it, yeah.
Jeff B (31:27):
I get to listen to it before it goes out.
Tom A (31:31):
Which makes me feel better, because I'm always
paranoid.
It's gonna have something wrongwith it, and so at least when
you yeah, do your verificationlist the whole thing feel pretty
good about previewparent-approved.
Jeff B (31:43):
But he um, he was talking about.
I'll just reassess.
I'm spending a few days thisweek visiting my mom and it's
the fourth or fifth time thissummer I've needed to pack a bag
as part of a busy travelschedule.
For many years I tried veryhard to travel with only an iPad
.
I bring two devices and I'm notleaving my iPad at home.
Since the arrival of AppleSilicon, however, I've gone back
(32:05):
to traveling with both an iPadand a MacBook Air and I will say
I have never Gotten to thepoint where I really work on the
iPad either.
I will say I have oftentraveled with it and used it as
a second display.
That I've done with regularityset that side car stuff Using
(32:29):
the side car features and I likethat a lot.
It works great, you know.
It gives me the opportunity tohave you know Messaging that's
going on, when you know I'mdoing whatever it is that I'm
doing, wherever I'm doing it,and then to be able to have you
know, typically a remote desktopsession up, not a Apple remote
(32:50):
desktop session, windows Remotedesktop session up which is a
really good app by a lot.
It's brilliant, yeah, it's great, and so I run that on my Mac
screen and then I'm doing allthe messaging stuff that I need
to do it using sidecar.
I'm still waiting for HighlandPro to come out, and you know
(33:11):
it's still in beta on my iPad.
So you know, and I've had enoughproblems with using the beta to
do real things and I'm notgonna do that again Like whole
paragraphs of rewritten text.
No, thank you, don't need to dothat, but I have never gotten
to the point I where it is astandalone tool for me.
(33:31):
Part of that, I think, isbecause of what we talked about
here, which is there's notreally finder integration.
It's better.
It's not the same depending onwhat app you're using.
Like if you're using theMicrosoft apps, even on a Mac OS
, it's always trying to get youto get a OneDrive, not to your
local hard drive, which is youknow.
I get it, but don't be annoyingIn Mac OS and, sorry, in iPad
(33:54):
OS getting to like pages,numbers and key note.
I feel like that integratesbetter, but I'm saving most of
that stuff in those folders inmy iCloud drive, so it goes
where it needs to go there whenI travel.
It was just out with my mom.
I'm now recording in JeffreyDahmer's basement, but you know,
last episode I was at my mom'shouse in Jeffrey Dahmer's cabin.
(34:17):
I don't know what you weregoing to call it.
No, ted Kaczynski's cabin Dark.
Yeah, you know me so TedKaczynski's cabin at mom's and
Jeffrey Dahmer's basement at myhouse, but what I end up using
the iPad for is watching movies,checking a couple of messages
(34:40):
and doing stuff like that, but,honestly, I have not made a
transition to using an iPad foreverything.
I'm proud of you, tom, becauseyou are at least using it to
edit podcast episodes.
Are you doing other things,though, that make it more a?
Could you live I think this isthe better question Traveling
(35:03):
could you travel just with aniPad?
Tom A (35:05):
If we did not have a show to record, probably.
Case in point Right, exactly,yeah because the audio subsystem
for iOS slash iPadOS is stillpretty primitive, yeah it is I
mean you see it you play someApple music and then go to
(35:27):
YouTube.
You don't get them both to playlike you would on a Mac or a PC
.
Correct, it's gonna say well,you must really just wanna watch
the YouTube.
So I'm gonna kill the other one, and it is what it is.
Jeff B (35:42):
I will say that that is not the case with AirPlay.
If you're AirPlaying from youriPad, you can go, but you're
right on the local device.
Tom A (35:49):
Yeah, if you kick that off AirPlay to some HomePods or
something else, then it respectsthat and we'll play it there,
but otherwise.
So I think a couple of thingshave happened.
The period where Appleintroduced the split screen set
up, which I think was iOS, itwas just iOS.
(36:09):
Then I think nine, where theydid side-by-side apps and stuff
like that oh, multitasking'scoming, and then they put the
keyboard folio out and then theApple pencil.
And if you overlay at thatpoint in time how the Mac was
trending, which was not goodbecause the iMacs were stale,
(36:31):
the.
Mac mini hadn't been updated forseveral years.
The laptops had the crappykeyboards.
Apple didn't really seemcommitted to it at the time.
Now in retrospect, we knowthat's not necessarily, is it
the case.
But then I think some peoplewere kind of like, well, I don't
know, apple doesn't seem reallyinvested in the Mac's future
anymore.
(36:51):
This iPad thing's, kind ofnifty and interesting could be
the future thing.
Fast forward to Apple Siliconera for the Mac, and we've said
before here that the Mac is back.
This is like a new golden ageof Mac hardware.
The Macbook Air is amazing.
The Macbook Pros are amazing,the Studio, the Minis I think
(37:12):
the Mac Pro is the one thatprobably gets dinged the most
just because it's so much moreexpensive than the Studio just
to get yourself some slots.
But for the people that need it, they need it.
I mean, that's a very specificaudience that needs that, and so
I think when you kind of lookat it and you'll say, well, gosh
(37:34):
, they sure are slowly movingthe iPad forward, and sometimes
it feels kind of grudgingly thatthey do it Like with Stage
Manager came out.
You addressed that a minute agowhere it wasn't great.
Jeff B (37:48):
And it was very rigid.
It was less rigid.
Tom A (37:50):
Yeah, it really was.
There were parts of it that Iliked and you could see the
potential was there, but it wasso finicky with window layout
and just how little options youhad with that.
But that seems to be rectifiedquite a bit with 17.
Jeff B (38:07):
Yeah, I would say definitely.
It's very nice in 17.
It's not Mac OS, but it'sdefinitely leaps and bounds
beyond what it was in the lastiteration, and enough, by the
way, that I might even try it onmy Mac.
That's.
Tom A (38:25):
Yeah, have you hooked that up to your display, the
iPad with the 17 beta for StageManager on a bigger display?
I have not.
Okay, I need to do that.
I have not.
We can come back to that whenwe get the release.
I've wanted to put it onbecause I do the podcast editing
.
I didn't know what the ferriteapp was gonna do with the beta.
So I was like I'll wait, but Ido want to try that.
(38:47):
But back to that.
I mean, and I also think kindof the other part of that is how
does the user define work?
What do they do?
I have an attorney friend wholeads the firm.
He's the head guy there.
It's his company.
He started.
It Works off the 12.9 inch iPadjust fine.
Jeff B (39:09):
And what's he doing?
Tom A (39:09):
with it.
He does mail, he does chatting,he does web stuff with their
apps that they use for it.
No it's not his only device,but he said 80% of the time he's
using it.
Jeff B (39:22):
He can do that and I can concur with that.
Is he doing motions?
Is he doing pleadings?
Is he doing I don't know whatkind of Right?
Tom A (39:30):
And I think he's maybe a little more removed from that
scene now when he's got theother partners Minions, the
attorneys and things right.
Is he listening to this?
Jeff B (39:40):
He might be.
Tom A (39:41):
Yeah, I just talked to him the other day and I say kind
of you should check it out, butI don't know if he will.
Jeff B (39:47):
If he does, hey, yeah, he should Definitely should.
Tom A (39:50):
So I think that plays a big part into it.
Like, if you're a podcaster,which this isn't work for us,
this is a hobby work.
You make money.
We don't do that.
What I don't make any money.
I think it's tough to recordEditing's fine, like I do that.
Maybe you're working inconstruction and you need to do
(40:11):
photos.
You need to do the LiDAR sensor.
You've got an app for that.
You're out in the field, youneed people to sign contracts.
You could do that all day, verytrue.
So I think it's hard to say oneway or another definitively,
because people's definitions orrequirements for work vary so
much from field to field, personto person, even within the same
(40:33):
field.
Jeff B (40:34):
Yeah, that's accurate, to be sure, and so maybe this is
the point to bring up whatJason Snell does the most of is
writing, and so maybeconsidering the tools available
I mean, I know he does podcasts-yeah, he does a lot of podcasts
too.
Yeah, and, like I said, I thinkhe does edit on his iPad.
(40:56):
He does a lot of stuff.
I think he was doing a lot ofworkarounds to make that work
for him rather than having it beeasy.
Tom A (41:04):
So that's the thing.
Jeff B (41:05):
But, like I said, I don't write in Word, I don't
write in Pages Normally.
There are things that I havedone in those applications and
continue to do it.
I think Pages is a greatpage-loud application for
boneheads like me, where I'm notgonna be using let me know what
they are In design.
The page maker doesn't.
(41:25):
He doesn't use the Pagesanymore.
That'll tell you how long it'sbeen.
Quirk Express I could say thatif Highland Pro wasn't in beta I
know we need to just get theseguys on the line and talk about
them Then maybe it would be morelikely that I would use my iPad
, because that is primarily whatI'm doing.
(41:49):
Do use it to edit photos.
Pixelmators got a couple ofgreat apps for the iPad that you
can use.
But if I look at the stuff thatI have on here, my big folder
is Entertainment.
I use Fantastic Cal on here.
I use Notes on here I could getrid of the iTunes Store
altogether Settings App Notes Onthe Graphile occasionally, but
(42:11):
not really on here.
I don't know.
It's not the stuff that I needto use for the things that I'm
doing and I think that's a veryvalid point.
Some people this is an everydaytool, but for some people it's
not.
I'm not an everyday tool person, love the screen, though for
(42:31):
screen sharing.
It's a nice size for that, forbeing able to use as a duplicate
or a dual screen, and it'sgreat for watching movies while
I'm cooking dinner.
Tom A (42:42):
Part of it, too, is I don't think Apple has done a
good enough job with the productlineup.
I think it's still messy.
So you've got the Pros, you'vegot the 11 and the 12.9.
M2s I think the 12.9 has themicro LED display.
(43:02):
I think I don't think the 11does.
But don't quote me on that,have to go look.
So even there there's somediscrepancies.
And then you've got the iPadAir and you've got the iPad 10th
generation, which for somereason still uses the first
generation Apple Pencil.
Don't get that, which isbaffling to me and a lot of
(43:25):
other people.
So I don't understand that theninth generation iPad is still
around.
It looks really old at thispoint because all the other ones
have the new design language on.
It Still uses the first genApple Pencil, but it is priced
very well, and so I don't thinkthe lineup's terrible.
(43:46):
But I'm sure you know there arepeople at Apple that do this
that are way smarter than I amwith this stuff.
If you look at the balance, yousee that bounces out nicely.
We're selling just exactly whatwe thought, but from a consumer
side of things it still seems alittle bit messy.
We deploy the ninth gen at workand nobody really has any
(44:10):
problem with them.
They take their notes, they dowhat they do and they're fine.
I think if you said, could youwork all day on a small screen
like that, I would say no, Icouldn't do it.
I know some people probablydon't.
They could, but I could not.
And I think we've had somediscussions where I wouldn't
mind even a 14 or 15-inch iPadPro to get the bigger screen,
(44:34):
especially now if they get thekinks worked out with Stage
Manager.
And then you're like, oh yeah,that could be quite good.
It's still going to be light.
I mean, it's not going to be asheavy as the 12.9 and the Magic
Keyboard is.
And I'm not.
I like the Magic Keyboard.
I don't love it, it's heavy.
I don't like the Trackpad awhole lot.
It's serviceable, like there'snothing wrong with it.
(44:57):
but no poem detection, whichwe've talked about before, and
that drives me a little bonkersand I think the friction point
is you come from a MacBook Airor a MacBook Pro with the
gigantic Trackpads and then youcome to the Magic Trackpad and
it's small and I get it.
I mean there's.
You know they're working withsome constraints there, so I'm
not going to ding them too muchon it, but it's just the thing.
(45:18):
I tell you, the originalkeyboard.
They put out the Folio thatflips around so you can lay it
flat, right, one Yep, it's verygood.
I used that one still on theone I have at work.
I used it a lot this week andyou asked some of the things I
do, for example.
So this week at the office, youknow, I had some kind of big
picture idea, stuff I wasworking on sketching out, and so
(45:40):
I put the iPad on the desk, hadthe pencil jumped into Bear,
got a sketch note started andwent to town, and it's great for
that.
Jeff B (45:50):
And it's an adjunct.
Still for me, right, it'ssomething that's an add-on, yeah
, a great add-on, but couldn'tdo business personally, right,
with just that, with just that.
Tom A (46:01):
Yeah, and I mean it's.
But I think the biggest thingis like and Jason Snell alluded
to it in the article it's likeit's just progressing so slowly.
It's like every other year youknow that every other year kind
of major thing.
So everyone was surprised theypleasantly surprised and happy
with it that they, you know,made some adjustments to stage
(46:22):
manager, because on the iPadside of things you're always
worried, like okay, they put itout and then it doesn't do
anything for two years and thenthey updated and then there's
another two years and the nextthing you know it's six years
gone and you're like holy smokes.
So I think that's part of it.
Like the Files app youmentioned there is, it's okay,
it's gotten better.
Finder isn't great we talkedabout that a minute ago jokingly
(46:46):
, but it's been around foreverand it's still not great.
So I don't think the Files appis going to get great at any
point.
You mentioned maybe droppingthings on the desktop.
Jeff B (46:57):
I know a lot of people do that, but it's just and again
.
Tom A (47:01):
This goes back to the habits that you and I have as
long time Mac users.
Jeff B (47:06):
Right.
Tom A (47:07):
Or long time computer users, right yeah, if you come
from Windows, same concepts,right, right, it's the same idea
.
Jeff B (47:13):
What I think I'm asking for when I ask for that option
is the ability and this used tobe in the Mac OS.
Remember you had the, the itcame in wrote what it was called
, but you had it so you couldset it up for your kids and it
was a single click of button andthat open stuff.
Tom A (47:30):
Yeah, the simple finder.
Jeff B (47:31):
That's what it was Simple finder Right, the ability
to say you know, I want to liketo turn off the simple iPad.
Tom A (47:37):
They're like you know.
Oh, you could do that with aMacBook Air.
Jeff B (47:42):
Yeah, you can do that, but that's kind of what the
concept is, right.
I mean it's the I'd like tohave for a more computer-like
experience.
I'd like to have more computer.
Tom A (47:55):
So what you're saying is Samsung has done it right with
DeX, which is what you plug itin.
Jeff B (47:59):
I don't even know what that is so.
Tom A (48:00):
that's their kind of.
I think it's on the phones, andso you take your phone, you
plug it into a monitor and youget more of a desktop-y kind of
environment to work in.
Jeff B (48:11):
I've never used it Desktop-y like that sounds great
yeah.
Tom A (48:14):
Yeah, I mean, that's what you're asking for, so.
I don't know how well they'veimplemented it Because I've
never used it.
But I don't know either.
But that's something, and Ithink other people have said
that, and it's like oh, it'd begreat if I could take my iPad
and then, when I put it in, youknow, hook it up to an external
display, it turns into aMac-like device.
(48:35):
Yeah, and I don't see Appledoing that.
But I tell you, though, when itcomes it's the new goggles, pal
, oh geez Could be.
When it comes to end of the day,winding down the day, the iPad
is almost irreplaceable for me.
Which is propped up in bed, I'mrummaging through Reddit, or
I'm reading a book, or I'mwatching some YouTube, whatever
(48:56):
it is, because doing that with aMacBook ain't great, because
you know you always have thekeyboard in the way Correct.
So love the iPad.
This isn't a bash the iPadsession.
Like I'm a big fan.
Jeff B (49:09):
No, I agree with that.
But there's still it's aquestion of whether or not yeah,
exactly, it's a question ofwhether or not you could live
with that alone, and I can't.
Others can.
I think you've pointed that out, but it's not the thing that I
could do.
I love the iPad too.
I really do.
Got it sitting next to me rightnow showing my mug to you, and
(49:31):
actually I'm looking at our shownotes on it, and I've got a
full screen, you know, inRiverside, which I don't usually
do.
Usually I have it side by side,so it's a that's a nice setup.
Let's me do that, but not astandalone thing.
Tom A (49:44):
And some of the stuff Apple's put in for moving device
to device, universal control.
Great Love it.
It's a little aggressive,sometimes with wanting to grab
the cursor and I'm like, oh,where'd it go?
Jeff B (49:56):
And it's like and you scroll and you scroll and you
scroll, and then it comes back.
Tom A (49:59):
It's like wow it really took it way over to the other
edge, but overall is really nice.
I like that a lot and it's fun.
Like the interface is playful.
We talked about that earlier onin the show with, like the
dynamic island and how you know,playful and whimsical, and that
stuff is fun.
I mean it brings life to thedevices.
(50:19):
I think I just want to say.
Jeff B (50:23):
I just, of course, opened up ARC on the iPad and I
just got a message on my backsaying incompatible versions
Can't use both of them.
Always something, tom, it'salways something it actually
says it's ready to update inthis version and I tell you what
anyway sorry, I got a littledistracted.
Tom A (50:41):
I apologize, that's okay.
Jeff B (50:43):
So I think we agree, although your mileage may vary,
and we'd be interested inhearing that.
So, if you do use an iPad foreveryday work, send us a
response, let us know, talk tous about it.
We'd like to hear from you.
We might even bring you on andhave a conversation about that.
(51:04):
So let's work on the show.
Send us a.
What's that?
Tom A (51:08):
Let's work for us when we have guests.
Right, always better when wehave guests.
Jeff B (51:12):
Different perspectives.
Guests make us better.
Tom A (51:15):
Way better.
Jeff B (51:15):
Guests are usually better than us.
I think that's the more a themore truthful thing.
So, yeah, when you, if you havethe option or the opportunity
to send us an email at feedbackat basicafshowcom, let us know
if you're using the iPad, ipad,ipod.
Good God, ipad day to day.
(51:36):
Dude, I'm useless as two sticks.
Tom A (51:39):
It's getting late Almost time for us to go to bed.
Jeff B (51:42):
It's bedtime for old people, Tom I already had my
dinner at 4.30 at the dinner.
Tom A (51:48):
It's a dinner it doesn't discount Well that's how you can
afford those watch bands.
So, as we mentioned when theshow kicked off, the events
coming up on the 12th.
So we will do a recap andthoughts and all that stuff on
the next episode of this finepodcast.
Yes, We'll have all of the newsand whatnot and, depending on
(52:15):
dates, the operating systemsmaybe out by then too, depends
what.
How Apple does that schedule?
Jeff B (52:21):
I would think so.
Yeah, I would think we wouldsee that and we're looking at we
.
The 12th is the date andactually that would be time for
us to record immediatelyfollowing that.
Tom A (52:32):
So we should do a live show.
Anything, we can throw it onzoom or something.
Jeff B (52:38):
We could try that.
Tom A (52:42):
Tell your three friends, I'll tell my two, and then we
maybe we'll have one person show, we'll have a whole, we'll have
a whole group of six.
Right, it's party.
Yep, all right, I think thatdoes it for this one.
I agree with you, tom.
Jeff B (52:58):
Good work, Good stuff.
A couple of reminders, as wesaid before the top of the show,
feedback at basickfshowcom.
You can get Tom at where?
On Twitter?
Tom A (53:09):
Twitter Tom, Whatever that thing's called F Anderson,
and on threads it's just TomAnderson and get me at raised
point.
Jeff B (53:16):
Yep, all those things Show music by PsychoKinetics,
also known as Celsius 7.
We highly recommend that youcheck out both Celsius 7's and
PsychoKinetics music.
Celsius 7 has a new album out,artwork by Randall Martin Design
.
Again, guy kills it.
If you have any artwork needs,we highly recommend that you go
(53:38):
see Randall.
He'd be happy to take care ofyou and give you something that
looks like our little showpicture, which I still think is
one of the best ones on any ofthe podcast app, stands out
better than any of the otherones I've seen.
I agree, and it's not justbecause it's ours.
Tom A (53:58):
He made it look good even despite that.
They kind of factored us intothe two robot dudes Right.
So that should tell yousomething.
Jeff B (54:05):
Yeah right, he made us look good he did.
If he made us look good, he'llmake you look great.
That's it.
He had a long ways to go to getto good for us, that is true?
Tom A (54:16):
All right, well, I think that will do it.
So thank you yet again forbeing here with us checking us
out.
Hope you have a great rest ofyour day, rest of your night,
and we will talk to you nexttime, see ya.
to them useless as two sticks all right, walk back.
Tom A (00:20):
Everybody is a new episode of basic a, fb a, f.
Back at it again.
Tom a, jeff b.
Don't as little dance there.
You can see it like you, but Ican.
But it is friday night.
Is the friday night?
Jeff B (00:32):
chic down right we're dancing, we're dancing time,
we're doing all the things youshould be doing something friday
night.
I don't know if it was adrinking and it sounds smoking,
I'd say screw it, but we're notI see the show's kicking off,
just like the pre-show nonsensedid right that, which is a good
thing there's nothing wrong withthat.
Tom A (00:49):
No, you guys say that we have eleven minutes out takes.
Jeff B (00:55):
I'm already interrupting you, it's only that it's were
worth thirty seconds in.
Alright, I'm shut my mouth now.
Tom A (00:59):
We're really thirteen minutes and but only a minute of
the show he's.
So welcome back everybody.
Thanks again for being here.
We do appreciate very much andif you're a new and if stumbled
upon this little thing, we doappreciate you checking us out
and giving us a shot.
We hope to earn a spot on yourplaylist.
If you've got any feedback atany point, feel free to email us
its feedback at basic af showdot com.
(01:21):
The website's the same thing wecan peruse the entire catalog
is.
Jeff B (01:25):
Jeff likes to say mm-hmm , you want to say it sure peruse
the entire catalog with lots ofgood shows you can go back to
uh, don't just start here who Ilike.
Tom A (01:36):
That's good with this episode nice, which is, I think,
seventeen we're up to.
Jeff B (01:40):
We're seventeen years old, I mean seventeen shut.
I wish way past that.
Tom A (01:47):
Yeah, as I got reminded, it worked the other day, so that
was nice.
Oh, good for you.
Yeah, yeah, tom, you're so old.
Yeah, thanks whatnineteen-year-old?
Jeff B (01:53):
uh, I'm just a co-worker at all.
Tom A (01:55):
Yeah, really yeah yeah, oh well, um, I mean, I wasn't
alive, but still yeah, right,but I still hurts not as much as
I used to.
I'm kind of getting over it.
Uh, so, basic af show dot comis the website with all the
episodes.
Of course, apple podcastspotify all the other players as
(02:15):
well.
If you would like to get someadditional commentary, tips,
tricks, app recommendations, Isend out a little newsletter
every now and then.
You can get to that attomfandersoncom.
Uh, like to have you sign upthere.
That'd be great.
Yes, it would all right.
So this show we've got a coupleof things.
We're going to roll through acouple of news updates, uh, some
(02:38):
a little bit of topicality upfront and, uh, we'll roll
through that and then we'regoing to talk about the ipad a
little bit.
Jeff B (02:47):
Yeah, sounds like fun ipad and maybe a little beta
beta talk yes, beta updates, asthose are winding down yes,
absolutely true.
So, tom, the big thing speakingof old I'm not talking about
myself, of course um usenet isback.
Remember usenet, tom, I do, Ido too where you why don't get?
Tom A (03:11):
mad when people say I'm old because I am.
Jeff B (03:14):
I remember these things actually, technically, I don't
think that usenet was ever gone,usenet being the original, uh,
one of the original socialnetworks, if you want to call it
that all text based um, whereyou, uh, you signed up with your
what was it?
19-bot modem.
(03:34):
You know the squawk, squawk,squawk.
You get on and somebody picksup the phone and screws you up
so you can't talk on it anymore.
But I need the phone, yeah,yeah, don't pick it up.
What do you mean?
You picked it up?
Uh, what days?
Yeah, those were the wonderfuldays and and some people listen
this is gonna go.
What are you talking about?
Tom A (03:54):
don't, don't, don't, don't, click off of us just yet,
well, well, yeah, I wouldn'tknow what I'm doing, right, hang
around, hang around and inwe're gonna talk about the time
I had the hemorrhoids, jesus umI know you're welcome.
Jeff B (04:07):
Now they're tuning out, for sure anyway, usenet was a uh
text based.
It still is a text based,essentially social network.
It is actually the place that Ilearned to program in lisp, so
let's talk about that.
That was about 5 000 years agowhen I was taking a program in
class.
(04:27):
But it's a uh.
It's basically basically amessage board where you can go
get information, pull downinformation from there.
There were apparently a bunch ofclients as the, the internet or
the computers got moregraphical, but my recollection
(04:48):
of that was using the terminalapplication, popping on a once I
was connected to the internet,feel my dial-up modem, putting
in some usenet informationterminal and then being able to
run commands to see theinformation that was sitting
there.
So all the uh insidious stuffthat you see on the major social
(05:09):
networks now twitter, uh, whichis no longer called that, but
I'm not going to call it whatthat guy calls it, um facebook,
any of those other places um,all of that kind of started on
usenet and you can get on it.
Now there are a coupledifferent uh clients apparently
for every os and you've got theability to uh start looking at
(05:31):
things like recartssfwritten andrecartssffandom not exciting as
that you know, tom, I missthose days.
Well, a little nostalgic.
Tom A (05:45):
So I got introduced to those.
Well, I think I stumbled ontothose through the so kind of my
introduction to everything wasthe online services, right, so
American online CompuserveProdigy, they all had those.
And these were also called newsgroups.
News groups is correct, yeah,and they were kind of segmented
(06:09):
out by topic.
So you would have tech topics,you could have writing topics,
history, general news, whateverthe case was, and you would jump
on there and they were.
You know, like Jeff said, theywere definitely precursors to
some of the social things wehave now.
I think probably most likeReddit yeah.
(06:29):
Yeah, I think so, and the thingwas, though then there wasn't
like you didn't get, thealgorithm pushes to amplify
certain things, because it was.
That's a shame it really is sosorry to hear that.
Yeah, those things suck, and Ithink it was just messages like
you would go and you would seethe message and then you would
(06:51):
kind of see them as they were.
So if they were a thread, youwould see it in sequential order
, and there was, there were someetiquettes that you had to
follow.
You had to make sure you putyour new message at the bottom
on the other message so peoplecould see what was leading you
to say what you said, or at youknow, or even at the top, but
don't dare put it in the middlesomewhere, because people would
(07:11):
still yell at you.
They would yeah.
So yeah, it's interesting thatit's kind of making its way back
.
Jeff B (07:18):
Yeah, it is interesting.
Artisanal computing, yeah, andI'd be interested to see.
I have not hopped on yet.
I might find myself a use netclient, just for giggles, to go
out and have a look.
But I do wonder if it's stillnot algorithmically pushing
(07:39):
garbage towards you.
So maybe it's a little likemake it bear in your bathtub.
You know, it's maybe not great,but it's your bear, you can
enjoy it.
Tom A (07:53):
Yeah, just like that.
So, there's your history lessonfor today.
Kids, You're welcome.
Jeff B (07:58):
You're welcome so two old farts doing a show.
That's us.
We're changing the name nextepisode yeah.
Tom A (08:04):
Two old farts.
And speaking of old things,that's what?
Yeah, that are history.
Apple has added the 2017MacBook Pro with Touch Bar to
the vintage list.
Jeff B (08:15):
Man.
You know that's kind of early,feels like, does seem quick.
Yeah, sunsetted that one alittle quick.
One of the things about that isthat there's still people I
know that are using them Colin,who I've said by name, so I
won't say who he is, but Colin,who I know I'm actually a child
(08:35):
of mine I don't usually givenames he had one of those and
loved it.
To be fair, though, he said healmost never used the touch bar.
So probably right that it'sgone, but it seems what are we
talking about?
That came out in 2017.
We're now in 2023.
(08:55):
Five years that's sorry.
Six years, because I can't domath Typically feels like I'd
have to go back and look if Ireally wanted to and see whether
or not it's more like eightyears is usually the cutoff
point for that, but I bet youtend to one, and one of the
(09:16):
reasons that they do shuttlethose things off to a vintage is
they no longer want to makeparts for them, so that touch
bar is gone.
I don't think we'll see it comeback.
Tom A (09:28):
Still can't believe they have that 13-inch MacBook Pro
with touch bar Still for sale.
That M2?
Still for sale.
Jeff B (09:36):
Is it a touch bar one?
I didn't realize that.
Tom A (09:39):
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I think you're probably still
right, but I don't.
It's a head scratcher whilethey still have that.
Jeff B (09:46):
Yeah.
Tom A (09:49):
Because we were buying those up until this past January
, I think it was, or spring,yeah and then we hopped on the
airs yeah, we hopped on the airsat that point, and so, yeah, I
didn't want to keep buying them.
But I think part of the reasonthey do it is it has a pro name
on it, for whatever reason, butthe 14s and 16s are a little out
(10:13):
of reach budget-wise for someplaces For us right, we couldn't
go to the 14 and 16, becausethey're definitely not 16.
But the 14 is even, you know,would stretch things very, very
thin, yeah.
And so I wonder about that.
But yeah, it's still around.
And I wonder too like I don'twant to put this how excited
(10:33):
Apple might be to just ridthemselves of all of the Intel
baggage.
Jeff B (10:39):
Yeah, Well, that goes without saying, I think.
Is that the last Intel device?
I think it is.
Tom A (10:43):
No, no, they've got 18s, 19s, I mean, they're all 13-inch
, 15-inch models.
Jeff B (10:49):
Oh, I'm sorry as far as what they're selling, oh.
Tom A (10:54):
I want to say it is, Since they did the pro, the Mac
Mini when they put the M2 Pro,and that that got rid of that
high-end Intel-based Mac Minithat they had and iMac's been M1
for 12 years now.
But yeah, I think it is.
(11:15):
I think that might be Okay.
Jeff B (11:18):
So, who knows, maybe that's part of the deal, but
yeah, seems to have one of those.
Tom A (11:22):
You're not in any immediate need to go out and buy
something else.
But Sonoma will be the lastmajor Mac OS update that you get
.
But you'll still get securityupdates, probably for another
one or two years, so a coupleyears.
Jeff B (11:37):
You're okay for now.
You can ride that thing for alittle longer.
Tom A (11:39):
Yep, you certainly can, Absolutely true.
Jeff B (11:42):
All right, cool, cool.
So goodbye, 2017 MacBook Pro,peace out.
Touchboard.
Yeah, peace, we had a littlebit of an announcement this week
, jeff.
What is the announcement?
Tom A (11:56):
Tom?
Surprising, no one.
There's a new iPhone coming outin September.
What Yep?
So the event?
What Wunderlust on September12th?
One o'clock Eastern time.
New phones watches probablysome watch bands.
Jeff B (12:13):
Yeah, speaking of watches, one interesting idea
that came up about those watchesis that the next watch is going
to be 3D printed, which isinteresting.
Tom A (12:26):
It is, at least I don't know what that says.
Jeff B (12:28):
Maybe that saves a lot of wasted metal, although
Apple's pretty good at notwasting that kind of stuff.
But that's kind of interesting.
I like the idea that that's 3Dprinted.
I am definitely looking forwardto the phone.
I'm not going to be updating mywatch, although there's some
rumor perhaps that we might havea darker model, ultra, so
(12:49):
something in the space grayrealm or something around there.
I don't know I'm pretty happywith the one I have.
The titanium that I have ispretty pretty still, yeah, yeah,
so we might see something likethat.
But yeah, as you're right, itcomes as no surprise.
This is Christmas in September,as it always is, or Hanukkah,
depending on.
Tom A (13:08):
Yeah, whatever you want it to be, doesn't matter we do
all of those things.
Jeff B (13:14):
But yeah, it's not a surprise and, looking forward to
it, I plan to get the nextphone.
Tom A (13:21):
Anything in particular you're looking or hoping for on
the phone, since you're going tobe picking one up.
Jeff B (13:29):
No, you know, I have this tendency to avoid all the
speculation about what might be,mostly because you know that
two days after the wanderlustannouncement, maybe one day
we're going to get, well, whatwe wish we had in the latest
(13:52):
iPhone 17.
Right, and then the next one'sgoing to be this.
It's like, yeah, I don't haveany.
Yeah, pay attention, I'm alwayslooking forward to new camera
capabilities.
That is the camera that is withme most often.
I take the majority of myphotographs now with the camera,
so I definitely look forward tosome of those options.
(14:16):
Other than that, I couldn'tthink of anything more that I
want, which is kind ofridiculous, but I don't know.
Is there anything that?
First of all, are you a yearafter year upgrade, or every?
Tom A (14:31):
two year upgrade.
I typically do every two, yeah.
Jeff B (14:34):
So this is my two year cycle.
That's the other piece of it,so I'm on that myself.
Tom A (14:39):
Is there anything?
Jeff B (14:41):
you're hoping it has.
Tom A (14:44):
Not really.
You have a 14 currently.
I've got a 14 pro.
Jeff B (14:48):
Yeah.
Tom A (14:48):
And so the always on display.
I got that.
With that, Got the dynamicisland thing on the front, which
is useful.
Jeff B (15:00):
Yeah.
Tom A (15:01):
I can't say I use it a whole lot, cause I typically
don't use my phone a whole lot,like for extended periods where
I need to be monitoring what'sup there and that thing, but it
is handy and I think it's it's aplayful feature to add.
Jeff B (15:17):
And there's something to be said for that, by the way
just certain that's fun, doesn't?
Tom A (15:22):
have to be amazing you know technological breakthrough
which could be whimsical andplayful and fun, but no,
otherwise, I mean I'm reallyhappy with the one I have.
The battery life has beenpretty good for me.
I know there were some articles, maybe a week or two ago or
before, there was write up aboutthe battery health for some of
(15:43):
the 14 seems lower than then youmight think it would be for it
being, you know, only a year oldor something.
But I haven't had that issue.
I checked mine.
Mine's still in good shape, sobut yeah, I've been happy with
it.
There's something that Ihaven't still been able to put
my finger on with the photosthat they feel over processed.
(16:06):
I even tried some with the appthat that you suggested, hey,
yeah, and that, honestly, Ididn't see too much of a
difference.
Really interesting, and so now Iwill throw a little bit of a
caveat to that is, I havestarted shooting more with the
Sony.
Jeff B (16:26):
And so.
Tom A (16:27):
I don't know, if you know , I'm seeing pictures from it.
It's like, oh wow, those arekeep zooming, keep zooming, and
they're very clear, so that thatcould be coloring my
perspective a little bit.
Jeff B (16:40):
I gotta say the same thing though the and I.
It's mostly in the photos app,and what's really weird about it
is when I take those photos anddo any editing directly in the
photos app, I'm noticing that itlooks one way when I finish
editing it and when I click doneand it saves it, it looks a
different way, and I don't knowwhether that's me being stupid.
(17:02):
Look at that, look on your face.
Tom A (17:04):
I was saying that that's not good Dork, or you, because
I'm a dork it's like you edit itto look a certain way and then
you click done and it doesn'tlook that way.
Yeah, and I'm not great.
Jeff B (17:14):
I haven't thought about doing a screen recording.
When I do that and it'stypically photos I have taken
using the photos app gone in andprocessed and brought back.
Anything that I'm doing withhalide now, which that has
become the default, with thatnice little double finger tap
that I that I do in the back ofthe phone that brings that app
(17:35):
right up.
That's pretty much all I'musing for photos, unless I have
a quick one off or, you know,somebody's taken pictures of a
group of people and I'm handingthe phone to somebody I don't
want them to have to, you knowyou know it's this right, but I
was noticing, noticing that andit would be interesting to see.
One of the things that's niceabout halide is it takes camera
(17:57):
raw Right, so it takes, it takesthose kinds of photos.
Apple does, I think, have rawcapabilities built into the
photo, into the camera as well.
But yeah, I've seen similarthings and I don't know if it's
because I've selected aparticular photo style.
Tom A (18:14):
Yeah, that's what I thought too, and where I noticed
it was like well, you know, wewent to the beach back in June
and I took the phone.
You're still tan, Tom, Well youknow it's summer's fading, but I
got to keep it going.
But I took the Sony as well andwhen I was and I could see it
in the photos app, right, I'mlooking through the photos and
I'm like, oh, there's one theSony took, oh, there's one the
(18:36):
phone took.
Why are the colors look sostrange and like this what you
just said.
I thought I had the photographicstyle selected, so I actually
went in to the settings thereand play with that and it wasn't
.
It was just on the standardsetting.
And so I don't know, I don'tknow if it's a software thing or
if it's just one of thosethings that once you see it it's
(18:57):
hard to unsee it.
And it's not necessarily bad,it's just different.
So you know it.
They're not terrible picturesby any means, but they're no,
they're, they just look a littlebit over processed.
Jeff B (19:10):
Little punchy yeah.
Tom A (19:12):
And fuzzy and little grainy in places and on the
phone they look okay.
It's usually when you put themup on the Mac and you start to
actually look at them at abigger size.
Yeah, these are so great.
Jeff B (19:23):
Yeah, we'll see Again.
Who knows what they do.
There's a lot of superprocessing like you said going
on.
Yeah, it's all computationalthese days, so yeah, and part of
that is you know you don't havelenses that actually can do the
things that a lens like on yourSony can do.
Where you've got physical,physical lenses that you're
playing with, that you adjustand that adjusts, you know what
(19:46):
it is and how it is that you'reseeing things.
Tom A (19:48):
So, who knows, maybe your sensors, all, kinds of stuff
and it's you know, and to beperfectly clear, I mean the
photo quality we get from phonesthese days is fantastic.
Oh right, I mean it's iPhones.
It's, you know, some of theAndroid top tier phones to great
photos as well.
So it's, and that's the one youhave with you.
(20:09):
And you know I'm not going tocarry the Sony around.
Special occasion I'll take it,maybe, and even then I don't use
it a ton.
Jeff B (20:17):
No right In what's the best camera to have is the one
that's with you.
It's the old adage, you know,doesn't matter which one you
have, as long as you have one.
Yeah, interesting, beinteresting to see, and I we're
going to get some excuse me,USB-C connections, I think, on
(20:37):
this, this phone as well.
It's probably means I need tobuy more cables, owed to joy,
actually, you know what?
That's not true, and this issomething I'll pop up.
So when I got all my stuffstolen, one of the things that I
picked up this is giving uscontent for months and I'm not
bitter.
I'm not bitter.
It's been a year almost, butI'm not bitter.
(20:58):
One of the things that I endedup getting is Apple sells a bag
safe charger that flips open.
One is for the watch and one isfor the phone and if you're
using those, if you're usingthose kinds of chargers, then
you won't need to get a specialcable for all the places that
(21:18):
you go.
That's one of the things I'mreally pleased about.
Thank you, thieves.
Wherever you are, I'm sureyou're listening to this podcast
, because that was actually agreat purchase, great for when I
travel.
Fold it up and it's not againanother cable like the Apple
Watch charging cable and that.
So if you're using any of the,using any of the MagSafe
(21:41):
charging capabilities thecordless charging that's
available it's a lot.
Don't feel what's that?
Yeah, I do like a lot too.
You don't need to worry aboutthat.
Tom A (21:53):
It's a good, all right, anything else?
Other cases, tom, I'm lookingfor watch bands.
Because I want to spend a fewmore hundred dollars but I feel
like we're due for some newbands for the ultra yeah you're
not here.
We haven't gotten any rightthat are specific to it.
Jeff B (22:16):
No, you're right.
Tom A (22:17):
Of course you can always use the other ones.
They don't.
You know, they look okay, butthey're not.
They don't quite.
They're not ultra man Well,neither am I so there's a blast,
so we'll see if we get some newwatch bands.
I'd be happy with that.
Jeff B (22:33):
Yeah, I would like that little disappointed and we'll
talk about betas maybe a littlebit later, but I am on all the
betas and all the things now thewatch faces on the beta.
I don't know if they're gonnado some other ones, but I'm not
Feeling it.
Mm-hmm, charlie bounds cute.
There's another one, that'sokay.
I'd like some watch faces.
Tom A (22:54):
Yeah, that's an ongoing thing.
Jeff B (22:57):
Yeah, there's just don't know.
Tom A (23:00):
Seems like even if there was, you know, a third-party
watch face and they had toapprove each one because, you
know I'm sure they don't wantcopyright stuff and that kind of
thing, and they don't even haveto be third-party.
I think if they're not going todo third-party, then Apple
takes on the responsibility, Ithink, of providing More and
better watch faces.
Jeff B (23:18):
Yeah, and they could do that a couple times a year, I
think.
Tom A (23:20):
so it's an easy, an easy upgrade, even sell, some People
would buy it.
I'm not saying I'd like it, butpeople would buy it.
People would buy it.
Yeah, right, especially youknow, 99 cents, 299, whatever,
yeah.
Jeff B (23:39):
Call me up to that ID in their head yeah save a spot for
me.
Good, good for you.
You're welcome.
Tom A (23:46):
I have to spend money on other stuff, yep, so you have
been running some betas I have,I have.
Jeff B (23:52):
I've been running all the betas on all except the
computer we're on.
Tom A (23:56):
Which is why I have you on FaceTime on the phone,
because I can't see you in therecording.
Jeff B (24:01):
Actually, on FaceTime right, because I couldn't update
.
Update this OS with the beta OSis a connection for the, for
the phone, and I got to saypretty solid all the way around.
I have been playing with a lotof that.
One of the things I've beenplaying on with on the iPad and
this maybe is a good segue intothe iPad is computer
(24:24):
conversation, is the, the newstage manager feature, which I
hate in the current iteration on.
You know the non beta versionsof Mac OS and and iPad OS and
Turned it off immediately.
Lot better job with the abilityto rearrange Windows, add
(24:48):
multiple windows, have windowson top of windows.
That's kind of a pain in theneck, I will admit it's not
Quite as intuitive as it is inthe macOS yet.
But right now I'm looking atthree Resized windows.
One is notes for the show, oneis that the I'm.
You know the messages Chat thatwe have.
And then I also currently haveyou up in the upper right-hand
(25:10):
corner, as far as way as I cankeep you from me.
Tom A (25:13):
In.
Jeff B (25:14):
FaceTime.
I've got dual FaceTime for you,one one in front of my face in
Riverside where we're recording,and the other one on this Off
to the side there.
But the way that this works nowreally sharp.
I actually might consider usingthis with some regularity.
One of the things I also reallylike about the the beta in the
(25:35):
iPad, which this is Silly, lowrent kind of thing but the fact
that you can use you can useLive pictures on the lock screen
, yeah, so that when you bringit up by the way, this is also
true of macOS itself Kind ofstunning.
(25:56):
I kind of have the same feelingabout that that I did when we
first talked about the.
The photos feature that kind offlipped your photos every time
you turned on, turned on the,the phone or the iPad, where it
would switch between you knowvarious pictures that you'd
taken that you've Selected youknow, friend of mine at work,
just started using that Just nowyesterday.
(26:19):
Yeah, just updated her phone soand wait.
Tom A (26:22):
Just updated their phone to 16, yeah, 16, what we're on
now?
Yeah, wow, and she listened, sobe nice to her, but she pointed
it out to me today that howmuch she liked that feature.
Jeff B (26:40):
Yeah, it's still one of my favorite features.
Tom A (26:42):
Likewise in that.
Jeff B (26:43):
Yeah, and the addition now of live photos on lock
screens stunning.
I have a waterfall picture thatI took in my backyard.
You know, not directly mybackyard, we kind of you know
swanky, half half a mile, half amile up in the woods behind my
house there's a pretty decentwaterfall and that is what.
When I unlock my iPad, that'swhat I see and that's all in
(27:07):
like Motion.
It's really beautiful and it'skind of slower than the normal
picture would be.
It's like it it speeds up andthen kind of slows down until it
stops.
It's really, it's beautiful,it's really nice.
Tom A (27:21):
I haven't seen that specifically, but have you
looked at the?
It's the new screensavers anddesktop on Sonoma.
Jeff B (27:28):
I have.
I turned it off to do my ownpicture, okay.
Tom A (27:31):
No, no, I did and that's, that is another similar to what
you said.
Jeff B (27:36):
Yeah, in the picture of Sonoma, I Gorgeous.
Tom A (27:42):
Yeah, oh my gosh, it really is, I think when, I first
installed the beta.
I sent that to you and I waslike this looks incredible.
Jeff B (27:47):
It really does, even on the, on the.
You know pre, when you, whenyou have to log into file vault,
it looks pretty, pretty slick.
There too, you know when youhave to log into the computer
for the first time.
One of the things about this OSis, when I say this OS, mac OS
in general, is the way thatApple Kind of grabs you with
(28:11):
those kinds of things.
It's not just an afterthoughtthat they tack on, it's one of
those things, it's a feature, areal feature that makes it so
your computer's yours.
Look at you, look at me likeI'm some kind of dork.
Tom A (28:25):
No, I was going to say, and Well, go ahead.
No, I was going to say it's notan afterthought.
Like the finder, I was gonnasave that for the iPad as a
computer thing.
But we'll get to that a coupleminutes.
Jeff B (28:44):
Yeah, so, yeah, yeah, you got it.
Yeah.
So I've got betas on my watch.
I've got betas on my MacBookPro.
I've not put it on this.
As soon as we finish recording,I'll put it on this, this Mac
mini, and have betas on the onmy iPad.
(29:11):
The only thing I don't know andthis is gonna kind of lead us
into the iPad as computerquestion the only thing that
really I don't know.
He just give me a desktop orgive me the option to turn on
the desktop.
I, you know I can appreciatethat we wanted this to be a
(29:32):
singular interface, that youtapped a button and it brought
up an application, but I reallyI don't know.
I let's, let's have the optionto make it a computer.
Don't make me open up the filesapp and then I have to see that
stuff to get to it.
You know I do have my desktopand iCloud drive can see all
those things.
Tom A (29:51):
I don't know.
So shall we just roll in to themain topic?
Jeff B (29:55):
Oh, tom, let's do it, let's do it.
Why not go ahead?
So the main topic is when wethis last week, jason snow,
formerly of Macworld, now the,the head dude at six colors,
that got a couple of otherpeople writing over there as
well Dan Moran's one of them,both Macworld guys and you other
(30:20):
people, actually another.
I noticed the other day anotherperson from back was there.
Hey, jason, sure bring me on.
Hey, one of the things that hehad in in his last, last post
was Trying to use the iPad as acomputer.
I picked this up, actuallythrough Derek fireball, and then
(30:41):
went over to to Jason's Jason'sbit, and what he's come down to
is that he's the title of thearticle is giving up the iPad
only travel dream, and what hewas talking about Was the idea
that he, you know, would be ableto leave his MacBook Pro or
MacBook Air or whatever he'scurrently using.
(31:03):
Actually, he's using a MacBookAir, leave that at home and take
the iPad with him to doeverything that he needs to do,
and he, like you, I believe,edits most of his podcast work
on his iPad.
You do that as well, correct?
Yeah, our podcast work.
You do the work, I just do the.
Tom A (31:22):
Hey, it seems to be working so well, just so far.
Just keep at it, yeah.
Jeff B (31:27):
I get to listen to it before it goes out.
Tom A (31:31):
Which makes me feel better, because I'm always
paranoid.
It's gonna have something wrongwith it, and so at least when
you yeah, do your verificationlist the whole thing feel pretty
good about previewparent-approved.
Jeff B (31:43):
But he um, he was talking about.
I'll just reassess.
I'm spending a few days thisweek visiting my mom and it's
the fourth or fifth time thissummer I've needed to pack a bag
as part of a busy travelschedule.
For many years I tried veryhard to travel with only an iPad
.
I bring two devices and I'm notleaving my iPad at home.
Since the arrival of AppleSilicon, however, I've gone back
(32:05):
to traveling with both an iPadand a MacBook Air and I will say
I have never Gotten to thepoint where I really work on the
iPad either.
I will say I have oftentraveled with it and used it as
a second display.
That I've done with regularityset that side car stuff Using
(32:29):
the side car features and I likethat a lot.
It works great, you know.
It gives me the opportunity tohave you know Messaging that's
going on, when you know I'mdoing whatever it is that I'm
doing, wherever I'm doing it,and then to be able to have you
know, typically a remote desktopsession up, not a Apple remote
(32:50):
desktop session, windows Remotedesktop session up which is a
really good app by a lot.
It's brilliant, yeah, it's great, and so I run that on my Mac
screen and then I'm doing allthe messaging stuff that I need
to do it using sidecar.
I'm still waiting for HighlandPro to come out, and you know
(33:11):
it's still in beta on my iPad.
So you know, and I've had enoughproblems with using the beta to
do real things and I'm notgonna do that again Like whole
paragraphs of rewritten text.
No, thank you, don't need to dothat, but I have never gotten
to the point I where it is astandalone tool for me.
(33:31):
Part of that, I think, isbecause of what we talked about
here, which is there's notreally finder integration.
It's better.
It's not the same depending onwhat app you're using.
Like if you're using theMicrosoft apps, even on a Mac OS
, it's always trying to get youto get a OneDrive, not to your
local hard drive, which is youknow.
I get it, but don't be annoyingIn Mac OS and, sorry, in iPad
(33:54):
OS getting to like pages,numbers and key note.
I feel like that integratesbetter, but I'm saving most of
that stuff in those folders inmy iCloud drive, so it goes
where it needs to go there whenI travel.
It was just out with my mom.
I'm now recording in JeffreyDahmer's basement, but you know,
last episode I was at my mom'shouse in Jeffrey Dahmer's cabin.
(34:17):
I don't know what you weregoing to call it.
No, ted Kaczynski's cabin Dark.
Yeah, you know me so TedKaczynski's cabin at mom's and
Jeffrey Dahmer's basement at myhouse, but what I end up using
the iPad for is watching movies,checking a couple of messages
(34:40):
and doing stuff like that, but,honestly, I have not made a
transition to using an iPad foreverything.
I'm proud of you, tom, becauseyou are at least using it to
edit podcast episodes.
Are you doing other things,though, that make it more a?
Could you live I think this isthe better question Traveling
(35:03):
could you travel just with aniPad?
Tom A (35:05):
If we did not have a show to record, probably.
Case in point Right, exactly,yeah because the audio subsystem
for iOS slash iPadOS is stillpretty primitive, yeah it is I
mean you see it you play someApple music and then go to
(35:27):
YouTube.
You don't get them both to playlike you would on a Mac or a PC
.
Correct, it's gonna say well,you must really just wanna watch
the YouTube.
So I'm gonna kill the other one, and it is what it is.
Jeff B (35:42):
I will say that that is not the case with AirPlay.
If you're AirPlaying from youriPad, you can go, but you're
right on the local device.
Tom A (35:49):
Yeah, if you kick that off AirPlay to some HomePods or
something else, then it respectsthat and we'll play it there,
but otherwise.
So I think a couple of thingshave happened.
The period where Appleintroduced the split screen set
up, which I think was iOS, itwas just iOS.
(36:09):
Then I think nine, where theydid side-by-side apps and stuff
like that oh, multitasking'scoming, and then they put the
keyboard folio out and then theApple pencil.
And if you overlay at thatpoint in time how the Mac was
trending, which was not goodbecause the iMacs were stale,
(36:31):
the.
Mac mini hadn't been updated forseveral years.
The laptops had the crappykeyboards.
Apple didn't really seemcommitted to it at the time.
Now in retrospect, we knowthat's not necessarily, is it
the case.
But then I think some peoplewere kind of like, well, I don't
know, apple doesn't seem reallyinvested in the Mac's future
anymore.
(36:51):
This iPad thing's, kind ofnifty and interesting could be
the future thing.
Fast forward to Apple Siliconera for the Mac, and we've said
before here that the Mac is back.
This is like a new golden ageof Mac hardware.
The Macbook Air is amazing.
The Macbook Pros are amazing,the Studio, the Minis I think
(37:12):
the Mac Pro is the one thatprobably gets dinged the most
just because it's so much moreexpensive than the Studio just
to get yourself some slots.
But for the people that need it, they need it.
I mean, that's a very specificaudience that needs that, and so
I think when you kind of lookat it and you'll say, well, gosh
(37:34):
, they sure are slowly movingthe iPad forward, and sometimes
it feels kind of grudgingly thatthey do it Like with Stage
Manager came out.
You addressed that a minute agowhere it wasn't great.
Jeff B (37:48):
And it was very rigid.
It was less rigid.
Tom A (37:50):
Yeah, it really was.
There were parts of it that Iliked and you could see the
potential was there, but it wasso finicky with window layout
and just how little options youhad with that.
But that seems to be rectifiedquite a bit with 17.
Jeff B (38:07):
Yeah, I would say definitely.
It's very nice in 17.
It's not Mac OS, but it'sdefinitely leaps and bounds
beyond what it was in the lastiteration, and enough, by the
way, that I might even try it onmy Mac.
That's.
Tom A (38:25):
Yeah, have you hooked that up to your display, the
iPad with the 17 beta for StageManager on a bigger display?
I have not.
Okay, I need to do that.
I have not.
We can come back to that whenwe get the release.
I've wanted to put it onbecause I do the podcast editing
.
I didn't know what the ferriteapp was gonna do with the beta.
So I was like I'll wait, but Ido want to try that.
(38:47):
But back to that.
I mean, and I also think kindof the other part of that is how
does the user define work?
What do they do?
I have an attorney friend wholeads the firm.
He's the head guy there.
It's his company.
He started.
It Works off the 12.9 inch iPadjust fine.
Jeff B (39:09):
And what's he doing?
Tom A (39:09):
with it.
He does mail, he does chatting,he does web stuff with their
apps that they use for it.
No it's not his only device,but he said 80% of the time he's
using it.
Jeff B (39:22):
He can do that and I can concur with that.
Is he doing motions?
Is he doing pleadings?
Is he doing I don't know whatkind of Right?
Tom A (39:30):
And I think he's maybe a little more removed from that
scene now when he's got theother partners Minions, the
attorneys and things right.
Is he listening to this?
Jeff B (39:40):
He might be.
Tom A (39:41):
Yeah, I just talked to him the other day and I say kind
of you should check it out, butI don't know if he will.
Jeff B (39:47):
If he does, hey, yeah, he should Definitely should.
Tom A (39:50):
So I think that plays a big part into it.
Like, if you're a podcaster,which this isn't work for us,
this is a hobby work.
You make money.
We don't do that.
What I don't make any money.
I think it's tough to recordEditing's fine, like I do that.
Maybe you're working inconstruction and you need to do
(40:11):
photos.
You need to do the LiDAR sensor.
You've got an app for that.
You're out in the field, youneed people to sign contracts.
You could do that all day, verytrue.
So I think it's hard to say oneway or another definitively,
because people's definitions orrequirements for work vary so
much from field to field, personto person, even within the same
(40:33):
field.
Jeff B (40:34):
Yeah, that's accurate, to be sure, and so maybe this is
the point to bring up whatJason Snell does the most of is
writing, and so maybeconsidering the tools available
I mean, I know he does podcasts-yeah, he does a lot of podcasts
too.
Yeah, and, like I said, I thinkhe does edit on his iPad.
(40:56):
He does a lot of stuff.
I think he was doing a lot ofworkarounds to make that work
for him rather than having it beeasy.
Tom A (41:04):
So that's the thing.
Jeff B (41:05):
But, like I said, I don't write in Word, I don't
write in Pages Normally.
There are things that I havedone in those applications and
continue to do it.
I think Pages is a greatpage-loud application for
boneheads like me, where I'm notgonna be using let me know what
they are In design.
The page maker doesn't.
(41:25):
He doesn't use the Pagesanymore.
That'll tell you how long it'sbeen.
Quirk Express I could say thatif Highland Pro wasn't in beta I
know we need to just get theseguys on the line and talk about
them Then maybe it would be morelikely that I would use my iPad
, because that is primarily whatI'm doing.
(41:49):
Do use it to edit photos.
Pixelmators got a couple ofgreat apps for the iPad that you
can use.
But if I look at the stuff thatI have on here, my big folder
is Entertainment.
I use Fantastic Cal on here.
I use Notes on here I could getrid of the iTunes Store
altogether Settings App Notes Onthe Graphile occasionally, but
(42:11):
not really on here.
I don't know.
It's not the stuff that I needto use for the things that I'm
doing and I think that's a veryvalid point.
Some people this is an everydaytool, but for some people it's
not.
I'm not an everyday tool person, love the screen, though for
(42:31):
screen sharing.
It's a nice size for that, forbeing able to use as a duplicate
or a dual screen, and it'sgreat for watching movies while
I'm cooking dinner.
Tom A (42:42):
Part of it, too, is I don't think Apple has done a
good enough job with the productlineup.
I think it's still messy.
So you've got the Pros, you'vegot the 11 and the 12.9.
M2s I think the 12.9 has themicro LED display.
(43:02):
I think I don't think the 11does.
But don't quote me on that,have to go look.
So even there there's somediscrepancies.
And then you've got the iPadAir and you've got the iPad 10th
generation, which for somereason still uses the first
generation Apple Pencil.
Don't get that, which isbaffling to me and a lot of
(43:25):
other people.
So I don't understand that theninth generation iPad is still
around.
It looks really old at thispoint because all the other ones
have the new design language on.
It Still uses the first genApple Pencil, but it is priced
very well, and so I don't thinkthe lineup's terrible.
(43:46):
But I'm sure you know there arepeople at Apple that do this
that are way smarter than I amwith this stuff.
If you look at the balance, yousee that bounces out nicely.
We're selling just exactly whatwe thought, but from a consumer
side of things it still seems alittle bit messy.
We deploy the ninth gen at workand nobody really has any
(44:10):
problem with them.
They take their notes, they dowhat they do and they're fine.
I think if you said, could youwork all day on a small screen
like that, I would say no, Icouldn't do it.
I know some people probablydon't.
They could, but I could not.
And I think we've had somediscussions where I wouldn't
mind even a 14 or 15-inch iPadPro to get the bigger screen,
(44:34):
especially now if they get thekinks worked out with Stage
Manager.
And then you're like, oh yeah,that could be quite good.
It's still going to be light.
I mean, it's not going to be asheavy as the 12.9 and the Magic
Keyboard is.
And I'm not.
I like the Magic Keyboard.
I don't love it, it's heavy.
I don't like the Trackpad awhole lot.
It's serviceable, like there'snothing wrong with it.
(44:57):
but no poem detection, whichwe've talked about before, and
that drives me a little bonkersand I think the friction point
is you come from a MacBook Airor a MacBook Pro with the
gigantic Trackpads and then youcome to the Magic Trackpad and
it's small and I get it.
I mean there's.
You know they're working withsome constraints there, so I'm
not going to ding them too muchon it, but it's just the thing.
(45:18):
I tell you, the originalkeyboard.
They put out the Folio thatflips around so you can lay it
flat, right, one Yep, it's verygood.
I used that one still on theone I have at work.
I used it a lot this week andyou asked some of the things I
do, for example.
So this week at the office, youknow, I had some kind of big
picture idea, stuff I wasworking on sketching out, and so
(45:40):
I put the iPad on the desk, hadthe pencil jumped into Bear,
got a sketch note started andwent to town, and it's great for
that.
Jeff B (45:50):
And it's an adjunct.
Still for me, right, it'ssomething that's an add-on, yeah
, a great add-on, but couldn'tdo business personally, right,
with just that, with just that.
Tom A (46:01):
Yeah, and I mean it's.
But I think the biggest thingis like and Jason Snell alluded
to it in the article it's likeit's just progressing so slowly.
It's like every other year youknow that every other year kind
of major thing.
So everyone was surprised theypleasantly surprised and happy
with it that they, you know,made some adjustments to stage
(46:22):
manager, because on the iPadside of things you're always
worried, like okay, they put itout and then it doesn't do
anything for two years and thenthey updated and then there's
another two years and the nextthing you know it's six years
gone and you're like holy smokes.
So I think that's part of it.
Like the Files app youmentioned there is, it's okay,
it's gotten better.
Finder isn't great we talkedabout that a minute ago jokingly
(46:46):
, but it's been around foreverand it's still not great.
So I don't think the Files appis going to get great at any
point.
You mentioned maybe droppingthings on the desktop.
Jeff B (46:57):
I know a lot of people do that, but it's just and again
.
Tom A (47:01):
This goes back to the habits that you and I have as
long time Mac users.
Jeff B (47:06):
Right.
Tom A (47:07):
Or long time computer users, right yeah, if you come
from Windows, same concepts,right, right, it's the same idea
.
Jeff B (47:13):
What I think I'm asking for when I ask for that option
is the ability and this used tobe in the Mac OS.
Remember you had the, the itcame in wrote what it was called
, but you had it so you couldset it up for your kids and it
was a single click of button andthat open stuff.
Tom A (47:30):
Yeah, the simple finder.
Jeff B (47:31):
That's what it was Simple finder Right, the ability
to say you know, I want to liketo turn off the simple iPad.
Tom A (47:37):
They're like you know.
Oh, you could do that with aMacBook Air.
Jeff B (47:42):
Yeah, you can do that, but that's kind of what the
concept is, right.
I mean it's the I'd like tohave for a more computer-like
experience.
I'd like to have more computer.
Tom A (47:55):
So what you're saying is Samsung has done it right with
DeX, which is what you plug itin.
Jeff B (47:59):
I don't even know what that is so.
Tom A (48:00):
that's their kind of.
I think it's on the phones, andso you take your phone, you
plug it into a monitor and youget more of a desktop-y kind of
environment to work in.
Jeff B (48:11):
I've never used it Desktop-y like that sounds great
yeah.
Tom A (48:14):
Yeah, I mean, that's what you're asking for, so.
I don't know how well they'veimplemented it Because I've
never used it.
But I don't know either.
But that's something, and Ithink other people have said
that, and it's like oh, it'd begreat if I could take my iPad
and then, when I put it in, youknow, hook it up to an external
display, it turns into aMac-like device.
(48:35):
Yeah, and I don't see Appledoing that.
But I tell you, though, when itcomes it's the new goggles, pal
, oh geez Could be.
When it comes to end of the day,winding down the day, the iPad
is almost irreplaceable for me.
Which is propped up in bed, I'mrummaging through Reddit, or
I'm reading a book, or I'mwatching some YouTube, whatever
(48:56):
it is, because doing that with aMacBook ain't great, because
you know you always have thekeyboard in the way Correct.
So love the iPad.
This isn't a bash the iPadsession.
Like I'm a big fan.
Jeff B (49:09):
No, I agree with that.
But there's still it's aquestion of whether or not yeah,
exactly, it's a question ofwhether or not you could live
with that alone, and I can't.
Others can.
I think you've pointed that out, but it's not the thing that I
could do.
I love the iPad too.
I really do.
Got it sitting next to me rightnow showing my mug to you, and
(49:31):
actually I'm looking at our shownotes on it, and I've got a
full screen, you know, inRiverside, which I don't usually
do.
Usually I have it side by side,so it's a that's a nice setup.
Let's me do that, but not astandalone thing.
Tom A (49:44):
And some of the stuff Apple's put in for moving device
to device, universal control.
Great Love it.
It's a little aggressive,sometimes with wanting to grab
the cursor and I'm like, oh,where'd it go?
Jeff B (49:56):
And it's like and you scroll and you scroll and you
scroll, and then it comes back.
Tom A (49:59):
It's like wow it really took it way over to the other
edge, but overall is really nice.
I like that a lot and it's fun.
Like the interface is playful.
We talked about that earlier onin the show with, like the
dynamic island and how you know,playful and whimsical, and that
stuff is fun.
I mean it brings life to thedevices.
(50:19):
I think I just want to say.
Jeff B (50:23):
I just, of course, opened up ARC on the iPad and I
just got a message on my backsaying incompatible versions
Can't use both of them.
Always something, tom, it'salways something it actually
says it's ready to update inthis version and I tell you what
anyway sorry, I got a littledistracted.
Tom A (50:41):
I apologize, that's okay.
Jeff B (50:43):
So I think we agree, although your mileage may vary,
and we'd be interested inhearing that.
So, if you do use an iPad foreveryday work, send us a
response, let us know, talk tous about it.
We'd like to hear from you.
We might even bring you on andhave a conversation about that.
(51:04):
So let's work on the show.
Send us a.
What's that?
Tom A (51:08):
Let's work for us when we have guests.
Right, always better when wehave guests.
Jeff B (51:12):
Different perspectives.
Guests make us better.
Tom A (51:15):
Way better.
Jeff B (51:15):
Guests are usually better than us.
I think that's the more a themore truthful thing.
So, yeah, when you, if you havethe option or the opportunity
to send us an email at feedbackat basicafshowcom, let us know
if you're using the iPad, ipad,ipod.
Good God, ipad day to day.
(51:36):
Dude, I'm useless as two sticks.
Tom A (51:39):
It's getting late Almost time for us to go to bed.
Jeff B (51:42):
It's bedtime for old people, Tom I already had my
dinner at 4.30 at the dinner.
Tom A (51:48):
It's a dinner it doesn't discount Well that's how you can
afford those watch bands.
So, as we mentioned when theshow kicked off, the events
coming up on the 12th.
So we will do a recap andthoughts and all that stuff on
the next episode of this finepodcast.
Yes, We'll have all of the newsand whatnot and, depending on
(52:15):
dates, the operating systemsmaybe out by then too, depends
what.
How Apple does that schedule?
Jeff B (52:21):
I would think so.
Yeah, I would think we wouldsee that and we're looking at we
.
The 12th is the date andactually that would be time for
us to record immediatelyfollowing that.
Tom A (52:32):
So we should do a live show.
Anything, we can throw it onzoom or something.
Jeff B (52:38):
We could try that.
Tom A (52:42):
Tell your three friends, I'll tell my two, and then we
maybe we'll have one person show, we'll have a whole, we'll have
a whole group of six.
Right, it's party.
Yep, all right, I think thatdoes it for this one.
I agree with you, tom.
Jeff B (52:58):
Good work, Good stuff.
A couple of reminders, as wesaid before the top of the show,
feedback at basickfshowcom.
You can get Tom at where?
On Twitter?
Tom A (53:09):
Twitter Tom, Whatever that thing's called F Anderson,
and on threads it's just TomAnderson and get me at raised
point.
Jeff B (53:16):
Yep, all those things Show music by PsychoKinetics,
also known as Celsius 7.
We highly recommend that youcheck out both Celsius 7's and
PsychoKinetics music.
Celsius 7 has a new album out,artwork by Randall Martin Design
.
Again, guy kills it.
If you have any artwork needs,we highly recommend that you go
(53:38):
see Randall.
He'd be happy to take care ofyou and give you something that
looks like our little showpicture, which I still think is
one of the best ones on any ofthe podcast app, stands out
better than any of the otherones I've seen.
I agree, and it's not justbecause it's ours.
Tom A (53:58):
He made it look good even despite that.
They kind of factored us intothe two robot dudes Right.
So that should tell yousomething.
Jeff B (54:05):
Yeah right, he made us look good he did.
If he made us look good, he'llmake you look great.
That's it.
He had a long ways to go to getto good for us, that is true?
Tom A (54:16):
All right, well, I think that will do it.
So thank you yet again forbeing here with us checking us
out.
Hope you have a great rest ofyour day, rest of your night,
and we will talk to you nexttime, see ya.
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