Put the Phone Down with Chris Valli

It started with a student refusing to put their phone away.

Chris Valli was a teacher, father, husband, and community man. On paper, everything looked “fine.” But beneath the surface, he was juggling too much, teaching by day, musical theatre by night, a strained marriage, and a growing sense of disconnect within himself.

And then, in one moment of exhaustion and reactivity, it all came crashing down.

A classroom incident.
An investigation.
Public headlines.
A lost job. A lost identity.

But that wasn’t the end.

In this raw and honest episode of Baskets of Knowledge, Chris opens up about his downward spiral, the toll of unacknowledged mental health, and what it means to slowly rebuild a life, not with perfection, but with purpose.

We explore what happens when you lose everything you thought defined you and the surprising tools that can help you find your way back. Things like:

Honest conversations
Creative expression
Connection with others
And yes, putting the phone down

This episode isn’t about blame. It’s about truth.

It’s about learning how to sit with discomfort long enough to hear what your life is trying to tell you.

Key Lessons from Chris:

Burnout doesn’t scream, it whispers until you break.
Vulnerability isn’t a breakdown, it’s a breakthrough.

Cellphones are more than distractions. they’re often emotional shields.
You can’t pour from an empty cup, look after your wellbeing first.
Your story is still yours, even if others try to rewrite it.

Now, Chris is telling his story on his terms, with courage, clarity, and the hope that it might reach someone else who's quietly falling apart.

His upcoming book Put the Phone Away isn’t about screens, it’s about presence.
It's about what happens when you're forced to stop scrolling, stop performing, and start healing.

Today, Chris is a writer, a partner, a father.
But more importantly, he's someone who's done the work to face himself.

If you've ever felt like you're just holding it together… this episode is for you.

And maybe, just for a moment, "Put the Phone Down"

Enjoy

Prajesh and Tane

Episode Transcript

(00:04):
Hey everybody, it's Prajesh here.
In Tana here. Welcome to our podcast Passes of
Knowledge chats with a difference.
In our podcast, we invite guestsfrom around the country and
around the world to talk about how they got to where they at
the moment. It's about a journey, it's about
an experience, it's about their life.

(00:26):
Get a coach, everybody. Welcome to another episode of
Basques of Knowledge. I don't know where you are at
the moment when you listen to this podcast here, but right now
as we're recording, it is bucketing down with rain out
there in Auckland, in Taranaki and in Marlborough, and we'll
see why Marlborough's connectionfor today.
Tana, good to have you back. How have you been and what's
been in your basket of marriage since we last spoke?

(00:46):
Yeah, I've been good getting thecontour routine before starting
a new job. And I think probably the biggest
learning I've taken over the last couple of weeks has just
been learning to adopt other people's perspectives.
So I think, you know, sometimes people notice changes in you
that you sometimes don't often see yourself when you're living
and breathing all the amazing things or challenges that you're

(01:08):
going through. So I think it's big learning for
me. It's just been to, you know,
take take on board some of that advice because I think sometimes
we get so caught up in our own values and what we think is
right or wrong or what we usually think we enjoy or not
enjoy. So I think it's just been an
exciting challenge to, yeah, take on as people's perspectives
and just, yeah, learn to flourish in those learnings.

(01:31):
Yeah, and I think what's important is everyone's got a
perspective, everyone, you know,everyone's perspectives in life.
And we can't, we can't control them.
It's just what you do with that,with those perspectives.
You don't have to agree with them.
You don't have to accept them. I just remember some way, I read
some way that affect is not an opinion.
And I, I also have, I can also choose an opinion of not

(01:52):
believing your opinion and that's fine.
So it's a bit of a tongue twister there.
So it's pretty, pretty awesome. My, my learning is actually, it
stems from last weekend. I was crewing at a, at a boot
camp thing, which is cool, whichwe'll talk about later.
But one thing they raised there,which I've heard many, many
times, and it got me thinking was the, the three fears, which

(02:15):
we all seem to have wishes, the fear of not being loved, the
fear of not being good enough and the fear of not belonging.
And that got reminded to to us in that session there.
And I thought a lot, a lot aboutthat.
And it may be right to reflect apost on LinkedIn about that and
to think about how we all go through those fears and they're
just normal, natural to have. But how we don't acknowledge

(02:37):
that and how we don't think about, you know, the fear of not
being loved is a real fear. The fear not being good enough
is a is a real fear. The fear not belonging is a good
real fear. But what does it sharp as?
What does it manifest in real life?
What does it look like? Is it anger?
Is it frustration? Whatever it is.
So yeah, that's just a thing that it's not a A1 day learning.

(02:58):
It's going to be a continuous learning journey that I'm going
to be going through. And that's going to be my basket
of knowledge of AI guess all of my lifetime, to be honest.
But enough about us, Tony. For those of you that have heard
us before, we can keep rambling on for hours about nothing and
about everything. But today we have a guest that

(03:19):
we are pretty honoured and privileged.
For those of you that are regular listeners, you know that
we scour the country, we scour the world to share stories of
people that are pretty interesting and amazing.
And we think everybody's interesting and amazing.
So today's guest is someone thatI, I only met last week,
literally last weekend. And when I heard this person's
brief story, it really got me thinking about this person's got

(03:42):
something to share with the world about themselves, but also
the bigger message that they want to share.
So it is our privilege and our real honour to welcome to Bosses
of Knowledge. Chris, go to Chris.
Yeah. Hey, fellas.
Yes, thanks. Good, Chris.
Good, Good, Chris. Thanks for joining us.
And you're from the wonderful Sunny Blenheim, aren't you?

(04:03):
Yeah, look, I'm a Dunedin boy, grew up in South Dunedin but
moved to Melbourne and Blenheim about 12 years ago as as a
teacher. Fantastic.
And Chris, for those of us who know nothing about you, who is
Chris today on the 11th of July?That's a heck of a question.
You know, the the holistic take on that question is is massive.

(04:28):
It's a God that's acknowledging vulnerability.
That vulnerability is is something to really own.
Chris Valley today is a guy that's he's had a lot of
failures, a lot of disappointments, a lot of trying
to make sense of fulfilment or lack of.

(04:50):
And I guess to answer your question honestly, on a Friday
afternoon, it's it's, I don't know, I don't know who Chris
Valley is at the moment. That transition that we all go
through. Sometimes I feel like I'm
certainly in that transition. You know, I've got this resume
with all these wonderful life skills and experiences and, and
done some great things, but I'm optimistic.

(05:11):
I'm excited. And yeah, just chuffed to have
the opportunity to talk about, Iguess, the journey.
Beautiful. And what I love about that,
Chris, is right off the bat, you're just being vulnerable
about the fact that you don't know right now, you don't know.
And too many times we appreciatein life to know, to have an
answer, what you're doing. And you know, we just give an
answer just for the sake of it, even though we're not.

(05:31):
But I just love the fact that straight to the bat, you
actually, I don't know. I really don't know.
And if I was to ask you this exact same question maybe seven
years ago, what would the answerbe 7 years ago?
A teacher who was confused. Confused about being authentic
in the classroom, A teacher who grew up in the Catholic

(05:52):
upbringing and teachers were seen as the authority or the
respect. So the concept of critical
thinking in the classroom or challenging a teacher was a
concept that we never really grasped.
So to answer your question, the guy a few years ago, back seven
years ago was a guy that worked in primary school environment

(06:14):
God that was married a guy that was doing musical theatre and
encouraged by the network that was the arts and wanting to
pursue that at A at a secondary level.
So. Fantastic.
And I and I go back to seven years and I'm sure there's a lot
more there, but we always go back to think about where we've
come from because that models where we are today in some way,

(06:36):
you know, some way as a human being.
I'm going to touch on a bit of your teaching career.
Was teaching always something that you wanted to do or did you
come to teaching because off some other life pathway?
Yeah, it's it's complex that that answer because there were
certainly patterns leaving school.
Had trained as a journalist whenI left school as a as a print

(06:58):
cadet reporter with the Otago Daily Times.
He'd done summer camps in the states outside of Boston and one
of those summer camps was through the Harvard Medical
School and they had a an affiliation with a boys camp for
those with insulin dependent diabetes.
So had done 4 summers over thereas a counselor.
Got really immersed in everything North American

(07:19):
culture and it provided a bit ofa stimuli around.
Perhaps this is a pathway. And it wasn't until I was in
points down when I was working for AJ Hackett.
And the ex-girlfriend at the time was a early childhood
teacher. And the mother suggested or her
mother suggested you should be ateacher.

(07:39):
And this is O six O 7. And I thought there's no way on
being a teacher. But the more I thought about it,
you know, holidays, the ability to be that kid, the ability to
show empathy and, yeah, just be yourself.
It really appealed. Yeah.

(08:00):
Yeah, once you made that choice,was it easy, Smith, sailing into
your teaching teachers college? And what did you?
Choose What did you choose? Primary, primary versus
secondary. Yeah, it's, it's massive.
So I did 1010, eleven years of primary and I think that
transitioned from having had those, those life skills as an
adult. So I went to teachers college at
3233. And I remember, you know,
through the Dunedin College of Education system, that first

(08:22):
year primary insight, I was one of perhaps 4/4 blokes over 35 or
around the 35 mark. They seem to be a young feel.
And it was confusing around academic versus life skills and,
and certainly struggled with with, you know, some of the
content with, with mathematics, grasping how maths was taught.
But as it transition from havinga wage, having a salary to, you

(08:49):
know, doing it tough getting through those those three years,
getting the bachelor and and thegreat learning was those
placements that we went on, you know, in the classroom, having
specific feedback, feedback fromthe associate and just the
diverse learners that we had andunderstanding that, you know,
there's not one rule when it comes to teaching.
You have to be so many things attimes as that psychologist.

(09:12):
Sometimes it's the ability to beflexible and to recognize
through body language, to recognize people skills really.
And then I think for me, that was a great buzz was that you
develop those relationships and yeah, that was the motivation.
Really just just those kids. We've got a buzz out of seeing
me being me and the ability to to bring that social and

(09:34):
cultural lens into the into the classroom.
It's so interesting that, you know, you went back to to study
at the age of 32 and you know, so many barriers, so many
perceived barriers and we use itwith perceived as Tony spoke
about perception right there. You know, the perception that
you're too old to study or what are you up to?
What are you why you're doing this year?
You should have a your life all sorted, But we know that's those

(09:55):
all perceptions and stories we tell ourselves that people tell
us. So it's really awesome that you
did that there and that you did it for the reason that you did.
You know, as you said before, getting in front of young people
doing the thing. And as you mentioned, you know
it being a teacher, you have tons of hats which you're not
trained for in a, you're not trapped.
And I think that's important. But you have these hats you go
in and grow with. Yeah, it's a base.

(10:16):
It's a base. And I think when you have gone
through the education system as a kid, you ought to remember
those primary school teachers that had an impact or perhaps
the, the selective secondary teacher.
It's, it's, it's a privileged role and it's one where the
landscape is changing, especially post pandemic.
And some of the kids learning needs and diversity and having

(10:39):
the upskill, the upskill to really not only cater for the
kids in the classroom, but your own well-being.
I think you know and practical tap into that, but but
understanding that you need to to look after this because you
can't get it if you don't focus on this.
Yeah. And we'll definitely touch on
that there. I just want to just complete
your teaching journey before we touch on Chris.

(11:01):
So we spoke about before that you started in primary and then
you you segued into secondary. What is the impetus for that
there? In 2015 when I was teaching
primary here, appearing at the primary school came up to me and
said have you ever done musical theatre before?
And the only time I'd done musical theatre was the year

(11:23):
nine production I think at King's High School in Dunedin
where and we did Oliver and I was the Munchkin farmer as a
rugby here. It wasn't really something I
really thought about but the show they had at the time really
appealed. It was actually the Full Monty.
It was a hell of an introductionto the community, you know,
getting one's kid off and and being part of it.
But the stimuli around like minded individuals was pretty

(11:49):
appealing. Some some interesting blogs from
different walks of life within the mulga community.
So in 215 that's my introductioninto musical theatre and for the
next part of 7-8 years got consumed by 2016.
Mamma Mia 2017, Annie 2018. We did Foot Rock Flats and in
2/19 it was probably to be part of Phantom of the Opera in the

(12:13):
ensemble, which was remarkable. And in 218 I had an opportunity
to attend a Drama New Zealand conference in Auckland where I
was just empowered by process drama, using the elements of
drama to nurture, to scaffold, to facilitate, to really engage

(12:35):
students at a different level. And I just thought that the arts
was something I really wanted topursue and needed to pursue
internally. And so transition from primary
to secondary and 2/19 and 10/3, which which I guess is kind of
the crux while I'm here today in, in terms of in terms of

(12:57):
mental health and in terms of well-being.
So year 219 was a hell of a year.
Yeah. And before we return to 219, I
just want to acknowledge the fact that again another growth
opportunity for you. We, the last thing we did
musical theatre was in year 9. And then here we go.
Let's bring it on. And all the opportunities that
open up for you that would have been pretty, pretty awesome for

(13:18):
you, for yourself as you saw thedifferent challenges and that
you overcame. You know, being in musical
theatre I'm sure is pretty confronting at times, but also
awesome in the fact that you're learning so much about so many
things out there. Yeah, I, I look in a world post
pandemic where, you know, in 2020, what do we all do?

(13:40):
We all went online, we all went on Zoom, you know, we couldn't
go to the theater, you know, we couldn't see live shows.
And you know, for that first duration in 2020 where we did
the press up challenge or the ice bucket challenge or we just
something to, to connect throughthe, the screen.
There's something very tangible and very real when you see a

(14:01):
performance because it's that's the question.
Your own values or your own, your own reflection on life.
You know, I mentioned you talkedabout reflection recently,
predation, You know, if we're not reflecting, then we're not
growing. And the arts for me has opened
up a world of opportunities. I think the biggest challenge or
excitement was when we did Les Miserables in 2022 at a time

(14:26):
when throughout the country, thepandemic really impacted on the
art scene. And luckily Marlborough had a
had a window in terms of their calendar in May 22 where we were
able to put on the great West End musical at the top of the
South. And William's got a hell of a
reputation here in terms of the talent and being cast as one of
the students on the barricade was it was massive.

(14:49):
You know, how do you understand the rebellion back in 18-30?
How do you portray that in a waythat's convincing?
How do you show the political message?
How do you convey the score? How do you open your mouth or
your characterization to really to really give it some
authenticity? And the people that you that you
do these things with are just the most remarkable people.

(15:12):
You know, doctors, lawyers, day jobs, farmers, you know, from
all walks of life. And they come to this rehearsal
space. That was, yeah, the best thing
ever. Yeah.
And again, this is, this is a shout out, you know, listening
out there that challenges why weneed the arts in our life.
I think that we're all innately humans crave creativity, we

(15:33):
crave and we go towards the the other side of our brain, which
requires connection and connection comes to the
storytelling and storytelling totheatre is is amazing.
Yeah, it is. And, and it's a phrase that I've
heard differently, you know, recently storytelling, story,
showing. There's something in theatre
where you use those nuances, whether it's a look or a hand

(15:55):
gesture, the ability to sometimes the little things in
theatre or in musical theatre oracting or on stage entices of
the audience, you know, those awkward silences are pretty
powerful. Often when we're performing or
presenting or talking that we have to give it that.
But often when we have those dramatic pauses, it's, it's a

(16:20):
connection. And it's that sense that
sometimes quite quiet moments are pretty powerful.
So yeah, brilliant. Yeah, it's a bit like what
Victor Viktor Frankel says, you know, Victor Rick talks about
the pause in between the response and reaction.
The pause are the most powerful thing.
And you know, you just articulate that really well
there. Thank you.
So Chris, this is really beautiful about about the arts.

(16:43):
But when you spoke last week, one of the things that really
when I was watching and listening to you was you do a
couple of phrases that you used and the big phrase that came
through was well-being and mental health.
And let's let's touch on that because again tonight, today,
you mentioned the fact that 2019was really big when your middle
health really came to came to the play.
What was the sign for you that Hey, man, this is something, you

(17:05):
know, I talk about it because mental health comes up in
different ways of different people.
What was your sign with actuallysomething was off Kelsey for for
Chris. You know, honestly, I didn't
recognize that I was doing a tough.
I think the ability to be a teacher and be in front of kids
and then doing the the musical theatre became, became something

(17:31):
that you do and and it normalized some insecurities or
it normalized the mental health.I had moved in with my ex wives
in laws while we built, we builta home and it was a long time,
1415 months while we lived with with the in laws.

(17:54):
It's very hard as a as a man of in his early 40s to be
independent. I lost in independence.
I kind of felt like I lost the sense of my role within the
relationship as a as a father, as a husband, because often I
would choose to do musical theatre or go to rehearsals.
I think it came from being quitesleep deprived, just balancing

(18:18):
life, just trying to acknowledgethat I had a job to do as a
teacher or go to rehearsal, go never acknowledge my my ex
wife's interests or quality time.
And it wasn't until that transition in the secondary
where I, I didn't have a toolbox, I didn't have

(18:41):
strategies, I wasn't effective in terms of recognizing defined
behaviour. And in September 219, instead of
being proactive, I was, I was reactive.
And I guess we'll talk about it soon.
But what actually happened was asnowball effect in terms of a
kid who a kid in terms of a person who was really naked,

(19:07):
really naked, really struggling,struggling to have voice.
And the voice that I gave was a voice that was was not the voice
I wanted to get. So yeah.
Yeah. And you know, Chris, like this
is important because as you saidbefore, you had no idea this is
happening. Your life was happening at that.

(19:30):
Hindsight is amazing. Yeah, hindsight is amazing.
But you know, at 2019, if I, if anyone said to you, hey, Chris,
mental health question mark, you'll be like, what are you
talking about? Because unfortunately, we don't
see that until something happens.
Yeah, and and you know, the, the, the 2 words mental health
is a teacher you train and you understand the the doctor Mason

(19:51):
jury model of, of Tafadi Tafafa suggested it's a human model.
You know, I think the multi focus for so long has been such
a wonderful lens, especially through spirituality and
connection to the funeral connection in general.
And you know, the John Cowan's of this world, the Mike gangs,
they normalized it, I think for so long as a Dunedin boy growing

(20:14):
up. And set up to need in a drinking
space or eating a cheese roll. There was a perception that you
did just suck it up. You know, if you've got if
you've had a bad day, then get scared to building or if you've
had a bad couple of days, then you know, get on the piss and
and drink the other way or play some sport and show the
aggression out in the field. When you, when you start to

(20:36):
really show emotion and put yourhand up that you are struggling,
I think that's half the battle, yeah.
Yeah, Yeah, that is in fact that's, that's the start, right?
That's the start when you do that there.
And I think I'm going to bring Tony in here because Tony, if
you're comfortable sharing, you've also experienced that
recently as well. Yeah, I think it's been a yeah,

(20:59):
I think it's been insightful forme particularly I think, you
know, because I was such an outgoing person and I think, you
know, a lot of the times, I think there were times where I
differently acknowledged or knewthere was something going on in
the background. But I either chose to ignore it
or felt, you know, obliged that I was doing enough because I was
surrounded by other people and going out and doing that and

(21:22):
that that was enough. But I think, yeah, again,
thankful for parents and others support networks that I guess
acknowledged and pushed me to beopen about the struggles.
And I think it's, yeah, it's definitely something that I've,
I'm obviously still going through.
So something I'm, yeah, learningto accept.
And I think that's probably the toughest part is acknowledging

(21:45):
it. And once you do that, then it's,
yeah, I think it's always a tough conversation to have, but
it's one that helps you come through the other side.
Yeah. And thanks for sharing that,
Tony. And I guess the question I had
made is what was that sliding door moment?
When did you go? Yeah, I need some help here.
Yeah, I think to me the turning point was just, I could tell I

(22:09):
was just constantly running myself to the ground.
I was just go, go, go and never really stopped to reflect on
what I was doing or why I was doing what I was doing.
And so, yeah, it just got to a point where I couldn't hold all
the all the plates up. I couldn't, yeah, I couldn't
continue to do all the things that I was doing when I went on

(22:33):
holiday with my mum in February.We we probably acknowledge that
there's something there that just wasn't quite right.
I wasn't quite making sense in terms of, you know, day-to-day
what I was doing and what I was trying to achieve.
So I think there are a few things that had gone at once and
just not taking care of myself Ithink was probably the biggest

(22:53):
tell tale. So yeah, there are a few crucial
moments there that helped me acknowledge it, yeah.
Thanks for sharing that. You know, here we are, three
blokes in different parts of thecountry.
You know, I think there's something really organic and
something really lovely about, you know, expressing their
headspace because it's. Yeah, it's good stuff.

(23:15):
And it's very real. And I think this is, this is as
you said, Chris and acknowledgedthe fact that as males, it's
really hard to have this. It's sorry, I'll rephrase that.
It's not hard to have the conversation.
It's the perception that it's hard because of the position of
other people, but when you are allowed to speak your mind and
allowed to speak with without a fee of judgement, so much
powerful with Kemal and I, I'm part of a men's men's group.

(23:37):
And I joined that in October last year.
And that just changed my whole world.
It just changed my whole world dramatically.
And yeah, you know, just the fact that you can share openly
without any judgement. But also you realize that a lot
of men go through the same sort of things and they might be
packaged a bit differently, but the base, those base fears we
spoke about and when I first started, the base fears are

(24:00):
still the same for us all, but they packaged up very, very
differently. Yeah.
And also, you know, you can't, you can't develop any
relationship with this, with your partner, your mother,
whether with students, whatever that scenario might be, until
you work on this. And, Gee, that's a hell of a
learning. So yeah.
Yeah, and you're right. You know, when you, when you, as
you said before, when you look after you, things are changing.

(24:21):
And let's talk about looking after you because there was a
point at that point, as you said, you weren't looking after
you and something happened in your world.
We, I'm not going to share that.I'll let you tell the story.
We you realized OK, Chris is notChris anymore because the world
crumbled very quickly for you. Yeah, I think to provide
context. So for the past four years I've
been working as the local community journalist with a

(24:43):
community paper here in Blenheim.
And in March this year, I was atmy daughter's tennis game and it
got sent a link on messenger, Facebook Messenger from a
theater friend and open up the link didn't really make the
connection really around the story and who the story was
about that the headline had readaggressive teacher who bullied

(25:07):
students struck off. And the first intro first
sentence had my name ChristopherValley with quite hot head.
When you read a headline headline like that.
And something happened in 219 six years ago, it was it opened

(25:27):
up a can of worms again around mental health.
It opened up a can of worms in terms of working on my
well-being to get better. So to answer your question, that
was that was the context about what I'm going to launch into.
So in 219 I was at a college andnoticed a lot of the students in
my year 10A year 11 English class had such diversity around

(25:49):
their learning, especially with English or literacy or the
ability to read, write oral language.
But the biggest crux for one of the better word was the amount
of cell phones in the classroom.There wasn't really a policy at
the school per SE. The policy was that the teacher
would hold a tow tray by the classroom door before the kids
arrived. Kids put the cell phones in the

(26:09):
tow tray and they get the cell phones back at the end of class.
When I moved into the new home in August, September 2019, I had
AI, had a commute from Blenheim to Picton, 20 minutes, half an
hour drive. In some ways that was lovely
because you get that headspace as you go to work.
For whatever reason, that day when I turned up to school, I

(26:31):
had a couple of students who I had a few battles with in terms
of the inability to to show respect or to comply with the
expectation. And it's really hard to
establish relationship with students Term 3 in a school year
when the previous two terms would create that climate or
that culture or that environmentaround expectations.

(26:53):
It's a Long story short. I had a defined student and I
asked that student to put her cell phone away.
She wasn't compliant. And I got this internal feeling
inside of, you know, what's, what's your deal?

(27:13):
She'll like, she'll like do something here.
Oh, how do I do what I need to do?
And it's abstract now because it's 2019, you know, so it seems
a long time ago, but from a quick synopsis, I approached
that student, walked over to that student.
Actually, we're on the computer lab.
So you know, I'm over here sort of standing, walk on over and

(27:38):
had the conversation and she's ignoring me and decided to react
and physically took the cell phone out of her hand.
As soon as I knew that, I knew Ilost it as a professional, I
knew I lost the relationship. And as I physically took the
cell phone off the hand, I started curvacing around my

(28:00):
frustration and and using language wasn't fit for any
teacher, any person, any professional for that matter.
So for the best part of four dance 5 months at their school,
I had a real battle with cell phones with with my own
professional ability. In 2019 I was doing 3 shows.
I did Phantom of the Opera. I was doing musical theatre, I

(28:23):
think called Starz Meteorites, like the TV format winners Boy
George. And then in the last part of the
year did Blackadder, the TV showwinners, Flash Hearts.
So there was a lot happening outside of school.
There was a lot happening as a as a husband, there was a lot
happening as a teacher. I just didn't recognize how
buggered I was, how angry I was,how tired I was.

(28:46):
At the end of that year, my registration was up for renewal
as a teacher. And so when you have your
renewal up for, you know, when your registration is up for
renewal, it gets sent to the Teachers council.
In January 2020, I found a new position at another school as
the head of drama at a local college here and I got an e-mail

(29:10):
saying from the Teachers Council, sorry, a letter that I
was under investigation from theTeachers Council and I had a
legal obligation to inform the college that I was under
investigation. I chose not to do that.
In January, February, that same time period, my marriage had had
broken up and that stability that I had with my ex-wife for

(29:35):
the past 1012 years was no longer there and my 4th 5 year
old daughter. So it was a beast personally and
professionally, but that's, that's where things are at,
yeah. Well, thank you, thank you for
sharing and thank you for the context as well.
You know, because as we've always spoken about, there's
always a story behind the story.And as you shared before, your,

(29:57):
your, your story at the tennis mat of that link came from a
different story, but that's sortof linked to what's happening in
your world and which we, we should forget about.
We don't see, no one sees that. And it's only in hindsight that
you see that. And as you as you were
navigating that, you know you'reunder investigation and legal
obligation. Did you stop working?

(30:20):
Did you care in working or what happened at that stage in your
life? So in 2020, I was employed as
the head of drama, having done, you know, the arts and some
musical theatre. I think they saw that I was a
fit. In hindsight, I wish they did
their due diligence because I was struggling, struggling to
understand the curriculum, struggling to understand how to

(30:40):
teach a practical subject duringthe pandemic.
You know, I remember in March 2020, we had seven weeks, all of
us at home, You know, when the old COVID outbreak came and you
know, we're looking at Cinder and and, and Ashley.
And so from March till till May,for seven weeks, not only was I
adjusting to life as a teacher through a pandemic, teaching a

(31:02):
practical subject, but my marriage had broken up.
And so we built and then I movedinto a new home.
I had to buy a new home, which was just the weirdest time ever.
So in April 2020, you know, where they talked about staying
in your bubble. I had to leave my bubble and buy
a new home which was the weirdest time ever having spent

(31:23):
2-3 years saving through a new build.
So to answer your question, the investigation was something that
I thought would just be an e-mail and she'll be right
mentality. As it turned out 8-9 months
lapsed in 2020. In August September the college
got an e-mail saying. Has one of your teachers
informed you guys that he was under investigation?

(31:46):
That was my mental health. That was also through naivety.
But I didn't acknowledge the seriousness of the word
investigation because I thought that I was doing the right thing
by taking a cell phone off a student and setting up that
expectation or. Yeah.
So it was a time of who the hellam I?

(32:09):
Ironically, there's a line in Mamma Mia.
I played the part of Bill, one of the dads and the line says
when he goes to Sophie's marriage or wedding the daughter
and he goes I don't know who I am, I don't know where I am.
And in 2020 I never felt more lost around what the Hell's
happened to my life. A failed marriage.
I was failing as a teacher. And so in 21 they appointed a

(32:35):
new principal. He came down from the North
Island. He was a multi teacher, really
brought into his his Co Papa really brought into his
connection around Kepiha Mehi asa staff and and really slowing
things down, brought him into mydrama space, felt really
acknowledged by the work that I was doing.

(32:57):
But in July 21, I was asked to sign what's called discretionary
leave or an undertaking not to teach.
And the Teachers Council investigators went back into
that college two years after theincident and interviewed
students to get affidavits or their take on what had happened
two years earlier, which was in many ways farcical.

(33:21):
How do you, how's their process fear?
How was that process equitable? And so I did.
I took leave and in July 21, it was uncharted territory.
I didn't really know what I was doing.
I was on full pay. As it turned out.
I ended up getting a position ata local Juno at the newspaper.

(33:42):
After three months they let me go because they had heard
rumours that I was on leave fromthe boys college.
They never said that. The manager who met with me
shook my hand and he says we're going to let you go because your
three month contract is up. It was around the storm that Les
Miserables was was starting and had auditioned for that and I
approached the other local newspaper to do a column around

(34:04):
that rehearsal process. And then towards the end of 21
got employed as the editor slashjournalist with the Blenheim Sun
newspaper, which was the redefinition of making me feel
valued and acknowledged. So to make a quick synopsis, I
was on investigation or under investigation for 30 months, 30

(34:25):
months. In January 24, I went to the Foo
Fighters concert with my partnerin Christchurch.
Coming back in the car and I checked my e-mail and my spam
was an e-mail from the Teachers Council to say that I was no
longer fit to be a teacher, thatthey thought there was a pattern
of inappropriate language, whichhappened at Boys college.

(34:49):
At school I went to in 2020. I was again in a really bad
headspace, wasn't being proactive, reacted to really
define students and thought I was going to change the world.
So there was that pattern. I did swear at students.
I did physically take the cell phone off the student but when I
look back on that why boys and the hell of me taking a cell

(35:13):
phone off a student and swearingat those students made me
unprofessional. I guess the question is, how
does the primary school teacher who had taught for 10-11 years,
how does he become aggressive overnight?
And so when that story came out in March this year, I understood

(35:36):
that there was going to be no name suppression, that the name
would have gone public. Very difficult in a place like
Marlborough, very different in aplace where is any small
community where, you know, you want to hold your we bit of
discretion and we bit of privacy.
But I've never been more proud of that story because that story

(36:00):
is my Wellness. And even connected with a group
of people recently around telling my story.
After the journalist wrote my story with that headline, it's
now tell time to tell my story. And I've just written the book.
And that book has been catharticand it's around failures.

(36:23):
I think through failures, growth.
I miss teaching. I lost my identity, but I've
never been more proud to to see what the next chapter is.
And also I guess now I'm 25 going look, I'm buggered.
I need, I need time out, I need to escape.

(36:44):
I'm 48. You know, I came here to teach.
I came here to be married and my2 greatest vocations or
stability was was squashed overnight because of my choices.
Because of my choices. Thank you for sharing, Chris, so

(37:05):
much in there, but so much just honestly, you know, as you spoke
there, just your, your truth hasjust come through really, really
clear. But also the acknowledgement
that at the end, as you said, these were choices that you made
based on the situation that you were in.
I think that's important to remember.
We'll make choices based on the situation that we're in.
And sometimes in that situation,we have no control of it because
as you said before, and as many people that are undergoing

(37:28):
through various mental health states, you have no idea.
You know you you are doing things just because at that
point in time it is normal in your world.
And use the word normal invertedcommas because you're done any
different. And it's only when the story
broke for you, you've taken it and use it as fuel as opposed

(37:48):
to. Yeah, and and it's, and it's, I
already lost it in 21. I spoke to a local farmer.
Sure, you won't mind me naming him, but a guy called Doug Avery
who brought out a book a few years ago called The Resilient
Farmer. And his story is around mental
health and having that sense of failure to the land because the
drought here in Marlborough for a number of years really
impacted on his output, his productivity.

(38:10):
And so when I was interviewed Doug back in 21 around his own
mental health, there's no irony that four years later he's now
more confident. My support person around being
buggered or being naked or you know, a guy down home, Nick
Chisholm, a guy that ATVMZ journal who's brought out some
books around acknowledging you're doing it.

(38:34):
Pretty shit. There's something really
relatable about that when you talk about it, but more
importantly when you when you start to action it.
And it's something that I'm really excited about.
I've got a wonderful partner now.
I've got a wonderful daughter who's at, you know, intermediate
is on his cell phone. So lots of honest conversations

(38:56):
around that in terms of what Daddid back in Turn 19.
And I guess, you know, that's why I've done this book and
trying to find alternatives to people that have gone through
mental health and saying, you know what, here's what I reckon.
So yeah. Yeah, let's, let's go to the
book there. Let's talk about that book there
because it's something that's that I know you're really

(39:16):
passionate about because it's a it's your, it's your story.
You know, it's written by you for not for you, but maybe even
for you, written by you, for you, but to share with other
people. Tell us about the book, Chris.
Can I ask you first, Have you ever written a book?
Sure, I've written e-books, but nothing, nothing crazy like that

(39:36):
there, no. Yeah, it's a weird concept
though, and so for a go with it,I think as a kid I remember the
first book I ever read was The Line, The Witch and the
Wardrobe. CS Lewis.
You know, the imagination of going to the back of the
wardrobe and going into Narnia or reading cricket almanacs or
rugby almanacs or the Michael Jones story or the Mike Brewer

(39:56):
story. You've got to tell you a rugby
stalwart, to think that I had a story as a local journalist was
something I really didn't want to pin because I had put to bid
what had happened in 219 and 220in terms of teaching in
headspace. It wasn't until I recently
reached out to some like minded people and you, you know who

(40:16):
those blokes are or who those people are.
But more importantly, when I sawthe headline and the headline
did read Aggressive teacher struck off bullied students.
It made me go, you know what? That's not accurate.
There's some parts of this storythat are factual, absolutely.
But the journalist had a responsibility to reach out to

(40:38):
me and get some fairness or equity in the story.
He never did that. So for me, writing the book came
about from that headline. It came about for may be made
recently redundant. So in May 2000 and May this year
after that story came out in March 25, the newspaper that I
worked for rang me to say they rang me.

(41:00):
What a concept. They rang me on a Zoom call out
of Christchurch to say that I was no longer going to be part
of their business model moving forward, that they needed
certainty for their business model, quote UN quote.
I was writing 10 to 15 stories aweek as the sole journalist.

(41:20):
I I talked about going into realestate six months a year ago
with Harcourts Marlborough and the opportunity to join in real
estate. The longer I thought about it,
the more it didn't really align with my values.
How do you pay a mortgage on Commission?
How do you how do you get here when everyone's doing it on
video or social media? Didn't really feel authentic to

(41:41):
me. So after being made redundant
and let go, the mayor actually called me shortly after I got
made redundant, which was a hellof a buzz around, you know, what
are you up to? What are your plans?
And I don't really think about writing the book.
And so I did because I had time up my sleeve.

(42:04):
And there's no greater time whenyou're in transition, when you
start to pee in a few reflections and 27,000 words
later, a book with a title that goes put the phone away because
there's a broader context in terms of screen time, anxiety,
depression. I saw, I saw it in school, I saw

(42:29):
it, you see it at the bus stop, you see it in the boardroom.
Here we are using Zoom to connect.
You know, there's no already lost here that we're not face to
face, that we're not tangible, that we're not feeling emotions
or that humanness. So the book for me is called Put
the Phone Away, but it should becalled Get the fuck out of my

(42:49):
Classroom because that's what I said.
And I was angry. I was sick.
I was lost. I had no toolbox that I talk
about. And the book isn't about making
money. It's not about putting it in an

(43:09):
airport. It's not about, you know,
getting it what goes with paper Plus it's about me being
authentic and being truthful to to my mistakes and my failures.
And I do feel lost that I'm no longer a teacher, but through
the arts, through musical theatre, through being the

(43:30):
journalist, being the writer andnow an author.
The book's given me a real motivation, produce a motivation
around baskets of knowledge, a motivation around putting the
phone away, but also influencingpotentially people who,
especially blokes who need to recognise when they're

(43:52):
struggling. So Tano, when you said earlier
that, you know, people picked upon that vibe, all that sense of
headspace, that's brilliant, man.
It's brilliant that you've got people to do that because in a
region like Marlborough, which has the highest rate of teenage
suicide in New Zealand, Marlborough, the highest rate of
teenage suicide. When you see kids at the library

(44:13):
that are doing this or they're getting a lot or a notification
or an upload, it scares me. And it scares me because for me
to get my book out there and my word out there, I've got to go
through social media on morning likes, on morning notifications.
Explain that, explain that to me.
You know, the day of, you know, being on a typewriter, doing a
transcript and putting a book out there for me, produce this.

(44:39):
This book is, it's about closure.
But I don't think it will be closure because I'll be talking
about it until hopefully I can have an influence.
And if I can you know 1. Yeah, and I think, and I think
This is why you're here where you shared your story a bit of
your story last week and you're you're here.
And I think that whether it's one person or 50 people or

(45:02):
100,000 people, I think the factthat your story is real.
And when I say real, it's about that it's you haven't sugar
coated it and it's it's your story.
And even though it's called put the final way, you know, put the
way, the put the final way construct is, as you said
before, it's All in all parts ofour life.
You know, I know I'm guilty of, you know, I moved to Auckland in
October last year and pre October, I, I was in a job where

(45:26):
I'd be travelling. I wouldn't, I'd be driving
around being in classrooms and Ican look at my phone a lot and
that and I'd use my phone to take selfies, as Tony knows, but
that was to share, share my experience.
But now moving to Auckland, you will find me, Chris, just on the
on my phone on the bus, you know, and that's not who I am,
but I've become that because everyone else around me using

(45:48):
that thing, you know, normally in the but if I think about my
past, they've been on phone. You'd be talking to the person
next to you, you'd be learning it from them.
You'd be doing, you know, idol shit check.
You go to the doctor's surgery or you go to any way these other
people, you talk to people just random strengthens.
But now all you do is you go straight to the comfort zone of
that phone because. And it's, and it's funny because

(46:09):
back in the day, I'm 48, but when we went to a party in the
90s, we would have a cigarette or or a Bacardi Breezer in our
hands. So our hands were were were
consumed. The cell phones become the new
cigarette. Or, you know, I'm uncomfortable.
I don't feel like I need to be in a social connection.
So I'm going to escape, pretend that I'm busy or engaged because

(46:32):
I've got a notification. And it's funny, man, you're spot
on. And and I've got a model that
behavior as a dead. There's a bloke called Rob Hope,
Rob Coke, Rob Hope, who's done an online research around screen
time and the pitfalls of Roblox and the pitfalls of Snapchat.
Scary man. You know, the, it's a wonderful

(46:55):
place, but by golly there's some, some troubled people out
there. And you know, you want to give
our kids the opportunity to learn, to be inquisitive, to
find out through the Internet, but you want them to be safe.
You want to have a dialogue withyour parents around.
I've just seen this word. What does it mean?
And so language has impact, communication has impact.

(47:16):
And so if we're not communicating and we're doing
that as you talk about with getting to being human.
So yeah. Totally.
And Tony, I'm going to bring in because for Chris and myself,
cell phone technology came into our worlds because we we
weren't, it wasn't there, but inyour worlds, cell phone
technology has always been there.
And as you hear this and think about it from your perspective,

(47:38):
I'd love your thoughts as well. Yeah, I think it's certainly an
interesting, yeah, an interesting thought to have
around technology and how we useit.
And I think it's always been something that I've challenged
myself with as well. I think it's, Yeah, as you say,
it's so easily accessible with you.
There's so many different means of communication.
And I think probably something that made me realize around it

(48:00):
was my little sister in the use of technology.
She's nine years younger than me.
So that really. Yeah.
Showed me some insight into how.Yeah.
How, how there are different factors in social media that can
be, you know, it can be a good means, especially, I guess, you
know, for me when I was down in university, to still have that
ability to connect with my sister while I was away from

(48:23):
home. But also the challenges or the
dangers of her seeing me on different platforms and going,
oh, well, he does it so I can doit.
That also created different conversations around, yeah, how
good is social media and to whatcontext should we be using it
and having it in our day-to-day lives?
Yeah, thanks for sharing that. And I, and just to interrupt, I

(48:44):
mean, I, I, I remember seeing inclass that when I went to
secondary, the ability to put your hand up and contribute
orally through that peer pressure became awkward.
That kids didn't want to put their hand up because they might
have looked like a Dick or giving an answer to a teacher
that seems not cool. So yeah, frightening.

(49:08):
Yeah. And I want to add to that,
Chris, because in my last role Iwas, I was working with the
school in Christchurch and they did a survey of all the students
and they said to the students, hey, what is your biggest fear
when you're at school? What is the number one fear that
you have at school? And the answer, Chris and Tane,
whether you believe it or not, the number one fear at the

(49:29):
school was I'm afraid that someone is going to take a
picture of me and post it somewhere.
Hands down, hands down. And so the notification or the
verification around, you know, taking a photo and getting a
like, you know, and you talk about people where they talk
online and say, I've got friendsonline.
What's the definition of a friend?

(49:51):
Through your through your struggles, through your heart,
your hardships. We'll just sort of go off a wee
bit on that. So that's a really an
interesting point. So the movie Tina, I don't know
if you've seen the movie Tina. Yes.
Yeah. You know, a lady who's lost her
daughter, Samoan Polynesian ladyout of the cross due.
And I actually saw that last night.

(50:12):
Man, did I lose my ship. I've never felt more an
emotional connection around how standing up for children and
being present for children and listening to kids and being
present and using the arts such as the choir.
By golly, you know, we do some great movies here in New Zealand
and the movie Tina just gave me a sense of the arts again,

(50:36):
through song, through collaboration, through through
critical thinking. They brought their sense of
unity and teammanship through singing and a lady who showed
her vulnerability. You know, that old school
technology or that old school behavior around, if you're going
to answer back, we'll show no respect to get the jandal.
You know, you get the jandal hard case around some of those
old school values around. What does respect look like?

(50:58):
So, yeah, wonderful, wonderful. Yeah, it's it's a fantastic
movie. If you haven't seen it before,
for those of you that don't livein New Zealand, find a streaming
service that offers it to you because it's a very powerful,
powerful, powerful. Yeah, But also the the other
thing is I also want to balance the conversation by saying
technology is a tool. It is.

(51:18):
It is fantastic. You know, this is allowing us to
have this conversation. It's just how do we navigate the
conversation or the use of the technology?
You know, we've had, we've, we have had tools all our lives
with TV's and cars and the technology comes.
But I think what's happening nowis it's getting blurred between
professional, personal, individualistic groupthink.

(51:39):
Things that we've never had to worry about before are not
becoming very, very real. You know, as you said before,
Chris, it's in a classroom. It's not an individual.
Now that individual is not doinggroupthink because who knows?
They, you know, they might have this often up because everyone
thinks it's cool. It's groupthink.
I hope we have no idea. It might be just because I group
individual thing because I'm notinvolved.
So therefore I'll just hide myself in.

(52:01):
So it's all about how do we use the tool in in a way that is a
is forward momentum as opposed to pulling us back or changing
the way we think about things. And I think that's really
powerful. They're here to stay and they
and they're probably going to get more and more scary with AI
and H&T. Well, you know that that creates
technology. So how do we, whether you're a
teacher, a police officer, what if whatever your role is a young

(52:23):
person is, how do you navigate that?
And I'm sure in your book, Chris, you talk about some of
the failures, but also of the learnings as well.
Yeah, and I think for any individual, if you action those
learnings, then you've shown growth.
I still don't know what that looks like.
I'm excited to get this book outthere.

(52:44):
So actually just to start a new chapter, do I continue to be
that writer or that guy that communicates?
I love writing, I love being a journalist.
And that's why it hurt in May this year to to let me go when
they needed quite UN quote certainty for their business
model. I was bored as a community

(53:05):
journalist because again, you'vegot to find a job which aligns
with your values. And those values for me were
holding people to account as a writer.
So when you approach, you know, businesses or the District
Council and they're not transparent around a question or
you get a press release from thecommunications person, that's

(53:26):
not what I trained in as a journalist.
The way the way that journalism is is landscaped in New Zealand
is frightening. People have a negative
connotation towards the media now because there is no honesty
and there's no transparency in in a world where we get confused
by on screen and the lack of quality time.
We've got to be personable and we've got to be honest.

(53:47):
Brilliant, fantastic. Chris, we've been talking for
almost an hour now and we can keep going on and on and on, but
I'm my full of time. Is there any last few words
before I ask you my last question that you'd like to
share before we close up this podcast?
Just thankful for the opportunity, you know, that the
concept of having this narrativeis about, you know, reaching out

(54:10):
and connecting, you know, for solong, John Kerwin, Mike King
with those blokes who put mentalhealth in the conversation.
I, I now want to be part of thatconversation around a bloke that
grew up in Dunedin, came to Marlborough to be a teacher and
my failures and through my failures.
It's OK to fail if there's an acronym for fail and that

(54:32):
acronym is first attempt in learning.
Well, I've made lots of lots of mistakes and lots of failures.
So with that, hopefully some growth and if they can have an
impact on some other one, some some somebody else that's going
to be positive. And I think, I think the big
thing you've said there is the growth, you know, this failure,
but there's also learnings and the learnings that you've had.

(54:55):
Then we talk about first attempts.
Everything in life is a first attempt.
And if we refresh, everything wedo like is a first attempt, you
know, and this is something whenI do my, in my coaching wells, I
tell my clients, if we always talk about the first step and I
just remind them every single step is a first step.
And when we think about the world in that phrase, we go,

(55:15):
actually, that's OK. I can take that first step and I
can stumble, but am I going to take the next step or repeat
that same step again, You know, and that's where the learning
happens. So open love.
I can't wait to see what your when your book goes out and you
know, sign me up because I'm sure myself and Tani will will
be eager to read that and, you know, share our thoughts on that
there as well. I appreciate that and and it's

(55:37):
great to hear the Tani story andyour story and you know, 3
blokes, different parts of the country having a chat on a
Friday night. It's it's good stuff.
Oh, beautiful. And Chris, last question for you
is our podcast is called Basketsof Knowledge.
And every week we invite our guests to share a piece of
knowledge to put into our basket, our Kitty.
You shared a lot today, but is any piece of knowledge that you

(55:58):
would like myself, Tony and our listeners to think about from
any part of your life that you go ahead?
This piece of knowledge might behelpful with the way you live
your life. To be honest in a relationship
and honesty comes from being uncomfortable and having
uncomfortable conversations to find solutions that whatever job

(56:23):
that you're in, that it fulfillsyour basket and fulfillments a
massive word that you stay true to your own intrinsic values in
the why behind it. And then ultimately that you are
having an impact because when you help other people, there's
no greater feeling then that primary school teacher that

(56:43):
taught a maths concept to a year4 student.
And that kid got it. And I didn't have to talk
because that kid talked about the the Co construction or the
ability to convey what they werethinking.
And then they get the conceptualunderstanding.
So it was a bit there. But just being true to yourself,
man, Totally. I love that what I'm hearing

(57:05):
about is honesty in a relationship and the truth,
finding your why, but helping other people, you know.
And the biggest thing has been if you implement all of those
things for yourself, then hey, we'll be smiling, absolutely
crying. But that's OK Beautiful.
Tony, any last questions? No, I think it's been an awesome

(57:28):
conversation to have. So, yeah, thank you, Chris.
Thank you man. And you know, it's great to hear
that you're in the mighty Necky on the good Rugby head, so any
time the New Plymouth balls are mentioned or the Teriyaki balls
on that, it's a big thumbs up for me.
Tana is the time as a big fan, don't worry about that.

(57:48):
Awesome. Chris, thank you so much for
your time today. And for listeners out there,
hopefully you've you've had a listen today and you've, you've
either resonated with what Chrisis sharing or you know, someone
in your world that is going through what Chris has gone
through or going through. Because you know, we all go
through different struggles in our life.
This is part of life. Life struggle and life go
together. This life is not hunky Dory.

(58:09):
And also, like Tana said, what he's going through as well, You
know, it's just an acceptance aswell sometimes.
And when you accept, then you can change.
But when you keep denying, then it becomes much harder.
So thank you Chris for joining us.
And again, when the book goes out, we will be sure we'll be
sure to put it out there in our different social so you can find
a way to get it from. So put the fun away.
Put. The phone away.

(58:29):
Put the phone. Put the phone away.
Put the phone away. What a powerful, powerful
statement there until the exam. Everybody, don't forget to keep
smiling. Don't forget to find something
to make you smile as well. Keep safe, keep dry, and the
most important thing of all is don't forget to put something
into your boss of knowledge until the exam.
Talk it about everybody, please.Thank you for listening to

(58:53):
Bastards of Knowledge. Yeah, we hope that you found
something useful to put into your busts of knowledge.
And as we said before, remember to put something little into
your busts of knowledge every week.
And as always, feel free to like, comment and share this
podcast. Thanks, everybody.
Bye.