November 9, 2022 • 34 mins
S4E35 We're back with a brand new series! This week Steve joins a volunteer roost visitor, Chris Smith from Staffordshire Bat Group, on a roost visit requested by the Bat Conservation Trust. Chris discusses the value of the free service, how he got into volunteering for the visits and why he thinks it provides such a great positive outcome for bats (most of the time!). Hear how Chris undertakes the survey and provides advice to the roost owners afterwards.
Want to know more about bats living in your house or how to tell if you have a bat roost? BCT have lots of info here.
Interested in becoming a Volunteer Roost Visitor?
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Producer: Steve Roe @SteveRoeBatMan
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Steve Roe (00:12):
Hello, and welcome to series four of BatChat. From the
Bat Conservation Trust, it onlyseems like five minutes ago that
we were introducing series one.
This podcast is for anyone wholoves bats. It brings you the
stories from the world of batconservation, from the people on
the ground, doing work thatfurthers our understanding of
these magical creatures. There'sa lot of information and
experience out there, and ouraim is to bring it right to you.
(00:34):
I'm Steve Roe. I'm an ecologistand a trustee of the Bat
Conservation Trust. Before Iintroduce our first guest of
this new series, I just want tosay thank you to all of you who
have got in touch over thesummer to say how much you
enjoyed the podcast. I've had abrilliant time interviewing all
our guests for this series. Andover the next five months, I
look forward to sharing themwith you. And now you yourself
can appear on BatChat to moreinformation on that at the end
(00:57):
of the show. For our firstguest, we travelled to Stafford
to undertake a roof visit withChris Smith from Staffordshire
bat group. I've known Chris formany years now and attended
several groups visits with himwhen I was training for my bat
licence in the early 2000s.
Chris starts off by explainingwhat a roof visit is and how it
works. So we're just on theotherside of a heatwave. And we
(01:21):
just had a rainstorm and it'scooled off a little bit. And you
can hear the birds sing in thebackground. And I'm with Chris
Smith from Staffordshire batgroup. And Chris, where are we
and what are we doing?
Chris Smith (01:32):
Okay, we are just south of Stafford. And we're
here at the request of the BatConservation Trust to talk to a
homeowner who needs to do somebuilding repairs. But they've
got bats, it's a maternity roostof common pipistrelle bats,
they've had them for a number ofyears. And they're really keen
(01:52):
to make sure that when they dothe work, they're not going to
harm their bats, they're notgoing to be causing a difficulty
for the bats that's going tocause them a problem because
they want their bats back in thefuture. They don't want to
inadvertently exclude their batsas well.
Steve Roe (02:08):
So what is the VBRV or volunteer bat roost visitor
service? What what is it andwhat does it do?
Chris Smith (02:14):
Okay, so the volunteer bat roost visitor
service, the Bat Conservationjust run it as a telephone
service, initially forhomeowners to get ahold of, if
they have a problem with that.
So if they have an issue withbats, and then the telephone
call service at BCT then go outto find if necessary, a
(02:37):
volunteer roost visitor and thevolunteer roost visitors are
specially licenced withinNatural England's bat licencing
system so that you are allowedto go and do visits to
homeowners, you're allowed to goand advise them you're allowed
to go and go in and disturb batsand look at bats. So that's
(03:00):
obviously what the licencecovers. So the licence is
allowing you to go and do that.
It isn't a licence that is usedfor commercial work, it is
purely for volunteer who'svisitors to go in and, and help
the home owner so NaturalEngland have set it up so that
homeowners can have some helpand support and input about
(03:23):
their bats and the bats aregoing to be supported. But at
the same time. Part of when youdo your loose visitor training
is you are trying to find a wayfor people and bats to coexist.
So that that is where thedifficult bit arises. But at
(03:43):
least homeowners are given theopportunity to have someone who
is supportive of them and thebats in trying to find a way
forward rather than just themthinking we've got to get rid of
the bats. We only wait we can doour extension our roof repairs
or whatever is to get rid of thebats. And that isn't something
(04:04):
that Natural England wanted. Sothey've set up the volunteer
roost visitor service.
Steve Roe (04:09):
And how long have you been? Well, first of all
involved in Bat Conservation butalso doing the VBRV service.
Chris Smith (04:14):
I think I got my first licence about 2005. So as
I became licenced as a volunteerwho's visitor working basic
safety staff here and you end uptravelling around. I'm a
building surveyor. So I bring inslightly different skills
(04:36):
because obviously I've had 30odd years been working on
buildings and contract works. SoI've been in slightly different
skills, which has meant thatalso I've ended up doing
volunteer booths visits somewhatfurther away where people have
maybe got a more specific needfor something that's building
related as to how they need todo repairs to their house or to
(04:59):
a missions. So
Steve Roe (05:01):
the house about to go into his just over the road here
what species is the rest ofwhat's the issue that they've
got in this particular property.
Chris Smith (05:07):
So the they've got a maternity roost of common
pipistrelles here, which wasfound a number of years ago,
they've already had visits fromvolunteer roost visitors in the
past to find out about theirbats and about problems they had
with bat droppings on theirboiler and just in their roof
space. So that's allowed them toknow about the roost visitor
(05:29):
service, they've then come backto BCT. To say that they need
some roof repairs. They've gotproblems with a valley gutters,
the valley gutters quite closeto the where the maternity roost
is. So they need some advice andsome support and help on how
they can get their repairs done,while at the same time being
(05:51):
very aware of the backs andactually they want to keep their
bats so they want to work aroundtheir bats as best they can.
Steve Roe (06:00):
Great. Let's go Let's go meet them.
Chris Smith (06:13):
Okay, I'll go have a look there and then I'll come
down because I've got some notesoff the bat conservation
anything else and then have aword your back the word you want
to do? And how you're going toshow you Yes.
Homeowner (06:25):
Would you like to drink then
Chris Smith (06:26):
cup a cup of tea then it'd be wonderful tea thank
you. Steve you happy coming upwith your recording equipment?
Steve Roe (06:50):
Borded out roof void; luxury!
Chris Smith (06:52):
Yes, a roof void, you can stand up in with boards
on and everything else. WhatI've been told by BCT is that
they wanted to replace thevalley gutter because it's, we
can see here, it's all thefelt's coming away. And it looks
like there's two or three layersof felt has been patched. So
they just wanted to make surethat it wasn't going to affect
(07:13):
their bats or do it in such away that it wouldn't affect the
bats. And this
Steve Roe (07:21):
can say this, there's a little MDF box, with a load of
and then some doors on
Chris Smith (07:25):
this house. So in they've had two other roost
visits and they've obviouslywanted to contain the droppings
and everything. And the batslook like they're going to be in
the cavity or the soffit on theoutside. And so presumably this
if we open it is a little bathouse. And then we go look. So
(07:53):
the roof here it's a moderntrust. Rafter roof sits up
against the gable end, which isblockwork. The outside of the
cavity will be brickwork. Idon't know looking at it at the
moment where the cavity is gotinsulation in it. But a wooden
to think it's going to be fullof insulation, it looks like
it's a 1970s 80s building. Somaybe half the cavity has got
(08:15):
insulation in it. And there's areasonable amount of droppings
stuck on cobwebs. And it lookslike they'd been pushed out of
the top of the cavity wall orbetween the top of the block
work and the underfilled andthen just catching in spider's
webs just reach in and grab acouple and they just crumble up
(08:45):
to dust. So typical batdroppings. They did say a little
while ago that their boost was200. So that's a really nice big
roost. And as I drove down here,on the left hand side of the
road here that the House backson to trees woodland and it
looks like a little stream downthere. So presumably, it's a
very good spot for foraging. Sothey've obviously picked the
(09:09):
house because of that.
Steve Roe (09:11):
So this bat house has been put in like save because of
a previous visit was the issuethe number of droppings or was
it back into the living space or
Chris Smith (09:19):
on the original boost reports they were putting
a new boiler in and the batdroppings were around where the
new boiler was going in. And sothey didn't know about the bat
droppings until they were put inthe boiler room. And then they
wanted to contain the batspartly from coming into the
living space, but also to stopthe droppings building up around
(09:40):
the boiler. I have found beforenow bats occasionally climbing
into boilers to keep warm. So itisn't really something you want
apnea you want to keep the batsand the droppings out of your
boiler so they've obviouslyagreed some format just for
creating this box that then issealed against the blockwork
Look so that the bat droppingsdon't fall out, they don't get
(10:03):
into the boiler. And then as aside benefit, obviously they
don't have the Mr. Plum said hecleans out regularly to couple
of times a year, the batdroppings in here, but then
doesn't have bat droppings inthe rest of the roof space. And
the work they have said BCT thatthey want to do is on the valley
(10:27):
gutters here, which are probablyat close this three metres away
from the front of that house.
And they obviously really keenon their bats because they want
to make sure they're doing thework in such a way that they're
not going to disturb the bats orminimise disturbance to the
bats.
Steve Roe (10:44):
The roof structure we're studying, it's a really
modern structure, and it'spoured out in the middle. And
like Chris says, We've got amodern timber truss structure in
the bitumen felts or rips fewmetres away from the from the
box. And we can see evidence ofthe starts of old wasps or
Hornets nests underneath thetiles.
Unknown (11:02):
And whether whether this has been pulled apart to
look at what they've got therein order to assess what needs to
do to repair the valley gutteror whether it's just falling
apart for old age, I'm not sure.
But in places there's two orthree layers and it's sagging.
So I think they've done somerepairs, or perhaps done because
the the roof here looks like itmight have been extended. So
(11:28):
maybe what they've done isthey've extended in the past.
And when they've joined the rooftogether, the change in
direction is going to be wherethe tiles cut. And if tiles are
cut, these are interlocking, youcan see from the back here,
they're interlocking pantiles ofsome sort. And if they if you
have a big tiles, if you cutthem, you'd necessarily have
(11:49):
destroyed some of the bit wherethey seal against each other the
images. So it may be that that'swhere the problem is. But we'll
have to go and have a look onthe outside and go and see.
Alright, let's, let's make ourway out. Just like the next
piece of this before my timewe're just gonna have a quick
(12:16):
look on the outside. And thenI'll come on over word with you
about the works that you'veplanned. And we'll have a look
at what you want to do when it'sraining or guys. Go in and out
quickly. And Steve, so this isthe gable end. And there's just
(12:41):
a few dropping still on there.
It's a bit dark looking at it.
But they're obviously goingunderneath the soffit.
Somewhere. And your work overhere. Yeah. Long will be
absolutely fine. Because yes,that one even you can yes, you
(13:04):
can see the the valley with themortar coming out either. So one
of the problems and so youshould be absolutely fine.
Because yeah, they'll obviouslyhave to take off one or two
tiles either side. Yeah. Andthen put the new Valley plastic
all the way down. It'll run allthe way down to the gutter, and
(13:25):
then just cut the tiles in. Butthe closest they're going to be
well, if they scaffold up here,they're going to be metre and a
half to two metres away from thebat. So if you're doing it in
September when the likelihood isthe may still be one or two
bats, but you won't have anymaternity leaves that shouldn't
disturb it.
Homeowner (13:46):
That's the thing.
Exactly. The young might havegone.
Chris Smith (13:49):
Yeah, well, the young should by then be flying,
be out and about. And you mightjust end up with one or two
that's there. But that should beminimum matter disturbance for
the bass.
Homeowner (13:59):
We haven't gone out recently to look at them flying.
But when we did once a couple of100
Chris Smith (14:05):
as anyone ever counted them out for you
exactly.
Homeowner (14:07):
No, we're not exactly No, no, we did count them out
and roughly. All right, I thinkwe're up to about 200 Move the
camera down the
Chris Smith (14:17):
Yes. Straight over we keep
Homeowner (14:22):
our garden as you can see, it's sort of semi wild.
Unknown (14:26):
So would you be interested in finding out how
many bats are there? I'm justthinking because we've got quite
a few volunteers in theStaffordshire bat group and I'm
wondering if anyone who livesclose to you would come and
count them and
Homeowner (14:41):
the only problem would say we've got is the
moment for a few dropping forwhatever reason. We always know
Chris Smith (14:49):
this. Yeah, to get them all right. So we just got
my notes here.
Steve Roe (15:00):
As Chris is now making some notes based on what
we've just seen upstairs. So Imean, based on what we see
outside Chris, what's yourrecommendation to the homeowner
gonna be?
Unknown (15:14):
Okay, looking at what we've seen in the roof space and
looking at what they've told meso far to BCT, which will be
passed on to me. I think it willreally just be a case of making
sure that they aren't doing thework when the likelihood that
the bats are here. They havesaid that about Santi at the
moment, but maternity moves movethey they'll often move around
(15:37):
depend on the weather conditionson the insects, so it's quite
likely they could come backlater on. So you can't sort of
make the assumption that gonenow permanently. So I think, you
know, I'd be looking at askingthem not to do the work until
after being in September. Andmaking sure there's a method of
work in place for thecontractors, the work that I've
(16:02):
been taught by BCT, if that'sexactly what the work is, isn't
too far away, is three metresaway from the box they're
created. But it's not in thesame area of roof where the bats
have roosting in the gable insoffits. So it shouldn't be a
big disturbance. So really, ifwe can timetable it when the
(16:23):
bats are unlikely to be there,and we can make sure that the
contractors know what to lookfor do everything by hand, take
it apart slowly. And when theyput any new under felting
underneath where they're goingto put the valleys in. That if
it's all in bitchiness, then,that way we've, we've done
absolutely the best we can forthe bats, the homeowner can have
(16:44):
all the repairs done, andthey've been really considerate
about the bats. And hopefullyeveryone will feel it's been a
success. I always accept cups oftea. I'm sorry, Steven. But it's
twofold. Because it also partlyrelaxes everyone. Everyone sits
down with a cup of tea, andthey're doing things and then
(17:05):
occupy. But also, I do a lot ofstuff in Birmingham, which is
for Asian families and allIndian community. They all have
got maybe not so much some ofthe younger people. But a lot of
the older people, it's reallyimportant for them when you come
(17:26):
into their house to welcome youin and they want to and so
actually refusing to drink isnot frowned upon. But obviously
it's just difficult because theydidn't want to it don't want to
welcome you here so. So I alwaysexcept for city. So can
everybody about the proposedworks?
Homeowner (17:46):
We hadn't heard of it before. Because the gullies are
often given as a problem. You'llsee when you go out with the
cement under the towers breaksaway fills the galley initial
coming down, and we get a lot ofmoss, because that's north and
this was certainly actually gota lot of moss on that side. So
we asked a Chappie to comearound and say, Could we reach
cement repoint him? And he said,Why don't we put in equal dry
(18:10):
valleys? I'd have a dry galley.
But dry bagging. And I've neverheard of them before. Have you
have you? Yes. So basically,it's yeah, it's if you have not,
you know, you've put a plasticmembrane under and you bring the
tiles together. So I had a wordwith them. They said it didn't
doesn't create too much noise.
(18:31):
But they will be here with thefourth property. That's bit less
than a week, perhaps.
Chris Smith (18:36):
And obviously, what don't have to do that's to take
out some of the tiles eitherside of the valley, and then cut
some new ones. So that it allmatches in. And I see I see the
the underfilled. Up there wasripped. I don't know whether
they'd taken that off to have alook at the because
Homeowner (18:52):
No, no, no, that's been ripped for ages. No, I
Chris Smith (18:56):
haven't. So presumably they'll be placed
that well they do they will dois just put a button in I think
looking at me because becausethat will will close off the
value. So it was a real bigproblem. Yeah. Because Because
obviously what you've got is thecement is at the end of the the
tiles where they've been cut.
And as everything expands orcontracts over time, it all
falls out. So yes, it will avoidall of that for you. It would
Homeowner (19:22):
before galleries you have to do
Unknown (19:24):
that. And so yes, and it's not too close to the bat
roost. So So I think if yes,they're bound to do, there's
bound to be some noise becausethey'll have to put a tower
scaffold up or scaffold andtowards working around. Normally
your back boost I suspect goesat the end of September, end of
Homeowner (19:48):
September couldn't see them really starting before
the mid to end of September.
Unknown (19:54):
In which case if you're if your bat roost, which
normally will start to break upas a return to some time you
know mid to late August, by thetime we get to middle of
September, hopefully, most ofthe bats if not all of them will
have gotten maybe down to asmall number. So the odd one up
to up to October. Yes, you'redropping out? Yeah. Yes. So So
(20:14):
planning the work for Septembershould not be a problem. And
what I'll do is, I think that ifyou've got a method of work that
you can give to the contractorsso that they're aware of the
bats, and then they'll belooking out for everything.
Because obviously, a lot ofcontractors they understand
that's a protected with a methodof work to look at to work with.
(20:36):
There'll be aware of the backs,they'll know that if they find
anything, they can just stopwork. And you know, you've got
my telephone number, I canalways then speak to him on the
phone or come out if necessary.
Yeah, and I think that's it, Ithink if you if you've got a
contractor or can find acontractor who, who understands
about bats, it's so much easierbecause the vaccine themselves
aren't harming the property, thebats in themselves aren't going
(21:00):
to be a problem from a healthpoint of view. It's just the
fact that they're there. Andpeople need to be aware of how
to to work around them andtimescale
Homeowner (21:11):
mainly, because it gets very hot in my car be
fairly warm from the last fewdays. But, but it's not too bad.
I usually have a mask on when Igo up anyway.
Chris Smith (21:23):
And being in the roof space. At least it's not
too but you're not gonna smellinto the house.
Homeowner (21:28):
No, no, no, not at all in the house.
Good. Good.
Are we, you know now that we'vecome out of Europe. Are we still
registrered with Europe? Is it adifferent legislation?
Chris Smith (21:41):
It's all still the same law, which is the wildlife
and countryside act 1981. Andwhat happens is they've just
there are then regulations,which part of them were European
regulations, then they've justbeen amended and dumped into
British law. Separate from now,but there's no real change in
the law is no change in in theprotection for bats at all.
(22:04):
They're just maybe changing theactual regulate regulations. You
have to quote if you quote them,but the same volunteer or all
volunteers? Yes, yes. But my myday job is on the building
surveyor, and I specialise indoing surveys for bats.
So that's why I end up doing endup doing this with bats. And
(22:27):
particularly, I ended up doingthings where people have got
building works, because I knowabout the materials and
everything else, this is wheremy, my skills tend to come
across. Basically, I can I cando the report back to the Bat
Conservation Trust, they'll sendyou a letter, you can then have
that letter to give to yourcontractor. So your contractor
(22:48):
will have a method of work, youknow how they should go about it
to minimise disturbance and harmto bats. But also giving them
some comfort that they're notgoing to be doing anything
illegal by doing the work foryou, inadvertently you're Yeah,
that's good.
Homeowner (23:07):
You say end of September is the best rather
than
Unknown (23:10):
I think from the middle of September onwards, you,
there's always a chance youcould have one or two backs in
there. Yeah, but the work is farenough away from the area where
the bats are. And hopefully theydoing the valleys. There'll be
taking a few tiles off eitherside of the valley, they're not
doing the whole. So they're in alocalised area, yes, there will
(23:30):
be some noise, maybe a bit ofdust, but they can do all of
that to keep minimised. Keep itaway from the loose access. So
it should be absolutely fine.
Homeowner (23:43):
That's reassuring.
Anyway, it's nice that we, youknow, yeah, that's very helpful.
Because we will always do worry,you're gonna say, well, we can't
do that sort of thing I woulddo. And we have got a problem
with those Galatian.
Chris Smith (23:53):
Yeah, that shouldn't be a problem that we
saw, you'd be saying, No, youcan't do anything. Oh, no, no.
And this is this. This is whatthe whole the volunteer roosters
the systems for is to get peopleout to who know about that to
talk to you as homeowners andhopefully, find a way that you
(24:13):
can, you can live in your houseand share it with bats and both
be happy. That's what the theaim of it is. It's just
They were very nice. They werethey're nice. People aren't
sometimes difficult, you know,trying to balance you need works
done and the bats are there, buttrying to come up with a scheme
that allows both to go ahead.
(24:49):
really good. And they'reinterested in the bats. Yeah.
And I think that's just it's sointeresting that bats that's
really where The whole versusthe thing works well, because
they're interested in theirbats. And then you can, you can,
you know, retain that interestand actually get more involved.
(25:11):
What's,
Steve Roe (25:12):
what's the next step for you then?
Unknown (25:14):
Okay, so I'll take some photographs, taking a few notes,
what I'll do now is I will gohome. And there's a standard
form that the Bat ConservationTrust have done in conjunction
with Natural England. That makesit easy for a roost visitor to
fill in, it's got a lot ofquestions on it. And a lot of
(25:36):
stuff that needs to be answeredabout how buildings are put
together, where the bats are,what they're using as how
they're getting in and out. Sothat at least, when BCT take
that information to NaturalEngland, naturing can read
through it, they can readthrough my notes will be added
to it about what I think thebats are doing, how they're
(25:58):
using the building, and what theworks are what would involve in
disturbance, or harm to bats.
And then they can read throughall of the notes there that I've
written, they can look throughall the standard bits and
pieces, ticking all the boxes.
And hopefully, it will allowNatural England's officer to
make a quick decision.
Steve Roe (26:18):
So I mean, you've done countless ones of these
over the years, and you'reclearly very happy doing it to
take time out of your day to doit in your spare time. What
what's the value of the VBRVservice?
Unknown (26:28):
Okay, the value, the value to bats, I think is is
really big, because that forthat for homeowner, for
homeowners got bats, a lot ofhomeowners, I think when they
talk to contractors, or maybewhen they buy the stuff in the
press, bats aren't always givenvery good press bats are seen as
(26:50):
an issue, bats are seen as astop on people being allowed to,
to use their house, how theywant to use it, to repair it, to
maintain it and extend it. Andreally, that isn't how the bat
should be seen. And thevolunteer visitor service is a
way for Natural England to helphomeowners except their bats.
(27:11):
And for me, it's a really goodway of supporting bats, but
equally supporting thehomeowners because what, what I
ideally want to do is to have ahomeowner who is happy to have
their bats, they can get thatbee pest and they can get the
extension and they can dowhatever they want. But if they
can keep their bats, then bothof them on a win. And if they
(27:34):
can do it in such a way thatactually then they maybe become
keener on their bats. Sometimespeople will then get involved
with the local bank group.
Sometimes they'll allow peopleto come in and do boost cats,
sometimes it's just then thatyou've got a contact that maybe
it's just going to talk to theirneighbours and be very happy
(27:55):
saying their neighbours all batsand not a problem at all. And
then they'll also be verypositive about the whole use
this to service Bat ConservationTrust Natural England. And it's
really just trying to get a winwin for everybody. And I think
the volunteers for service cando that. You do get ones that
are difficult, you get oneswhere the problem is so
(28:19):
intractable from a physicalbuilding point of view that you
have no alternative other thanexclude the bats. The problem
can also be so intractablebecause of the householder that
the household has attitude.
However much you spend timetalking to them however much you
(28:39):
go and, and maybe go on tourthree visits, and really work on
engagements, everything else,they're never going to like
their bats. So sometimes you endup having to go down the route
of exclusions. But that is thatis rare. It's also a good
(29:00):
learning thing. It's it's verygood way of, you know, learning
how to deal with people. Andit's part of what the training
for the volunteer boostersdisease, about how to deal with
people who have thesedifficulties and had to come up
with ways of, of supporting thehomeowner and the backs in
everything from how you talk tothem to how you approach it to
how positive you can be abouttheir works and everything else.
Steve Roe (29:24):
I was gonna say you've answered that question. I
was gonna say you said hopefullyit's positive experience mean? I
mean, it's very hard to say buton a percentage, how many are
not a positive experience fromthe homeowner side of things?
Unknown (29:36):
If I think if I assessed not been a positive
experience by excluding bats,which is the that is the worst
outcome. Absolutely everybodyapart from the homeowner because
the homeowner clearly doesn'twant them but the backs to
exclude the roost of bats is gotto be the worst outcome. So in
(29:58):
the past five years, I thinkcause physically done to roost
exclusions and advised our thirdone. So, how many roosters it's
do I do a year? That doesn't 15.
So out of so that's maybe threeout of 45/50 visits, which are
think I don't know how thatcompares to other roost
(30:21):
visitors. But the exclusionsthat I did do, one of them had
gone on for a number of yearswith a lot of roofers as they
tried all sorts of differentways. And it really was
absolutely, after four or fiveyears, maybe more than that, it
was the only way to solve thesolution. So three out of 45 in
the past couple of three years,I think it's got to be
(30:45):
reasonably good as a as abenchmark to start off with,
Steve Roe (30:49):
yes, not bad as and you touched on in there. You've
had to travel slightly further,because there's a lack of
volunteers around and thatnumber has been slowly dwindling
over the over the last fewyears. Where do you see the
future of the service going?
Unknown (31:04):
I'd like to see the future the service carrying on
as it is, I know that have beenfunding issues with bat
conservation, just naturallyEngland are know that they've
got alternative fundings inplace. I think the service is a
very good one. I think thedifficulty is that there are a
(31:25):
lot of people who it isdifficult to commit to it.
Because if you become quiteengaged with the homeowners and
their bats, you can become quitecommitted to it. And you feel
you ought to be going out. Anddoing lots and lots of work to
help and support them. Lots ofyou know, night counts on how
(31:46):
many bats were coming out. Andit is just difficult because
we're volunteers. So on, I'vegot a full time job, my full
time job involves me and bats,which means I'm doing at this
time of year, evening surveysand doing surveys. And it is it
is a real difficult balance todo. In the winter, it's a lot
easier because I'm not doingevening surveys. So I think for
(32:10):
volunteer, I think the really,the more volunteers we can have,
the better. And I'm always happyto train new people to come and
do it. And I'm probably I'llprobably produce one new roost
visitor every couple of years atthe moment. So the volunteers
will come out with me, they'llcome on booths visits, they will
observe to start with thenthey'll end up you know, sort of
(32:34):
running the routes, visit withme looking at it and making sure
and helping and supporting themand, and stepping in if
necessary. But it isn't a quickand easy process. Because at the
same time, they've got to do allof the usual work for getting a
licence from bat ecology,biology and everything else. So
if someone's already got alicence as a consultant, they
(32:56):
can quite quickly, you know,transfer over to get that extra
licence to do volunteer routesvisits. But for members of back
groups who aren't working inbats, it's quite a big
commitment for them to alsospend the time to do the
training to come out and do thisas well as me doing the route
visits might be evenings,weekends, like today. It's just
(33:21):
a big commitment. So I wouldreally like to see the whole
volunteer blue service carry on.
And I would hope the fundingcould be found to do it because
I just think it is such apositive experience most of the
time for homeowners and bats
Steve Roe (33:37):
Great stuff and nicely timed just as the rain
starts. Chris Smith, thank youvery much.
Chris Smith (33:41):
Thank you, Steve.
Steve Roe (33:45):
Well, a huge thanks to Chris for having me along on
that route visit. If you'd liketo find out more about how to
become a route visitor the linkis in the show notes. Now I
mentioned at the start the showthat you guys can appear on
BatChat to we want you to get intouch with your favourite
battery experience. It doesn'tmatter whether it was the first
time you've ever seen about youmight have seen a brief shadow
(34:05):
flying past as you were leavingyour house. Perhaps you've been
checking bat boxes with yourlocal bat group. And so if
that's of close for the firsttime or so of that species that
you've never seen before,perhaps you've counted a bat
roost this summer and somethingunusual happened, maybe heard
what bats sound like on adetector and thought it was the
coolest thing ever. Whetheryou're new to bats or a seasoned
(34:25):
bat lover, we want to hear allabout your favourite bat
experience. So please do get intouch. The voicemail link is in
the show notes. And don't worry,you can hear your message back
and rerecord it if you don'tlike it before sending it to us.
Messages can be up to 90 secondslong. We can't wait to hear from
you. And we'll be back in twoweeks time with the Sussex bat
group. So see you then.
Hello, and welcome to series four of BatChat. From the
Bat Conservation Trust, it onlyseems like five minutes ago that
we were introducing series one.
This podcast is for anyone wholoves bats. It brings you the
stories from the world of batconservation, from the people on
the ground, doing work thatfurthers our understanding of
these magical creatures. There'sa lot of information and
experience out there, and ouraim is to bring it right to you.
(00:34):
I'm Steve Roe. I'm an ecologistand a trustee of the Bat
Conservation Trust. Before Iintroduce our first guest of
this new series, I just want tosay thank you to all of you who
have got in touch over thesummer to say how much you
enjoyed the podcast. I've had abrilliant time interviewing all
our guests for this series. Andover the next five months, I
look forward to sharing themwith you. And now you yourself
can appear on BatChat to moreinformation on that at the end
(00:57):
of the show. For our firstguest, we travelled to Stafford
to undertake a roof visit withChris Smith from Staffordshire
bat group. I've known Chris formany years now and attended
several groups visits with himwhen I was training for my bat
licence in the early 2000s.
Chris starts off by explainingwhat a roof visit is and how it
works. So we're just on theotherside of a heatwave. And we
(01:21):
just had a rainstorm and it'scooled off a little bit. And you
can hear the birds sing in thebackground. And I'm with Chris
Smith from Staffordshire batgroup. And Chris, where are we
and what are we doing?
Chris Smith (01:32):
Okay, we are just south of Stafford. And we're
here at the request of the BatConservation Trust to talk to a
homeowner who needs to do somebuilding repairs. But they've
got bats, it's a maternity roostof common pipistrelle bats,
they've had them for a number ofyears. And they're really keen
(01:52):
to make sure that when they dothe work, they're not going to
harm their bats, they're notgoing to be causing a difficulty
for the bats that's going tocause them a problem because
they want their bats back in thefuture. They don't want to
inadvertently exclude their batsas well.
Steve Roe (02:08):
So what is the VBRV or volunteer bat roost visitor
service? What what is it andwhat does it do?
Chris Smith (02:14):
Okay, so the volunteer bat roost visitor
service, the Bat Conservationjust run it as a telephone
service, initially forhomeowners to get ahold of, if
they have a problem with that.
So if they have an issue withbats, and then the telephone
call service at BCT then go outto find if necessary, a
(02:37):
volunteer roost visitor and thevolunteer roost visitors are
specially licenced withinNatural England's bat licencing
system so that you are allowedto go and do visits to
homeowners, you're allowed to goand advise them you're allowed
to go and go in and disturb batsand look at bats. So that's
(03:00):
obviously what the licencecovers. So the licence is
allowing you to go and do that.
It isn't a licence that is usedfor commercial work, it is
purely for volunteer who'svisitors to go in and, and help
the home owner so NaturalEngland have set it up so that
homeowners can have some helpand support and input about
(03:23):
their bats and the bats aregoing to be supported. But at
the same time. Part of when youdo your loose visitor training
is you are trying to find a wayfor people and bats to coexist.
So that that is where thedifficult bit arises. But at
(03:43):
least homeowners are given theopportunity to have someone who
is supportive of them and thebats in trying to find a way
forward rather than just themthinking we've got to get rid of
the bats. We only wait we can doour extension our roof repairs
or whatever is to get rid of thebats. And that isn't something
(04:04):
that Natural England wanted. Sothey've set up the volunteer
roost visitor service.
Steve Roe (04:09):
And how long have you been? Well, first of all
involved in Bat Conservation butalso doing the VBRV service.
Chris Smith (04:14):
I think I got my first licence about 2005. So as
I became licenced as a volunteerwho's visitor working basic
safety staff here and you end uptravelling around. I'm a
building surveyor. So I bring inslightly different skills
(04:36):
because obviously I've had 30odd years been working on
buildings and contract works. SoI've been in slightly different
skills, which has meant thatalso I've ended up doing
volunteer booths visits somewhatfurther away where people have
maybe got a more specific needfor something that's building
related as to how they need todo repairs to their house or to
(04:59):
a missions. So
Steve Roe (05:01):
the house about to go into his just over the road here
what species is the rest ofwhat's the issue that they've
got in this particular property.
Chris Smith (05:07):
So the they've got a maternity roost of common
pipistrelles here, which wasfound a number of years ago,
they've already had visits fromvolunteer roost visitors in the
past to find out about theirbats and about problems they had
with bat droppings on theirboiler and just in their roof
space. So that's allowed them toknow about the roost visitor
(05:29):
service, they've then come backto BCT. To say that they need
some roof repairs. They've gotproblems with a valley gutters,
the valley gutters quite closeto the where the maternity roost
is. So they need some advice andsome support and help on how
they can get their repairs done,while at the same time being
(05:51):
very aware of the backs andactually they want to keep their
bats so they want to work aroundtheir bats as best they can.
Steve Roe (06:00):
Great. Let's go Let's go meet them.
Chris Smith (06:13):
Okay, I'll go have a look there and then I'll come
down because I've got some notesoff the bat conservation
anything else and then have aword your back the word you want
to do? And how you're going toshow you Yes.
Homeowner (06:25):
Would you like to drink then
Chris Smith (06:26):
cup a cup of tea then it'd be wonderful tea thank
you. Steve you happy coming upwith your recording equipment?
Steve Roe (06:50):
Borded out roof void; luxury!
Chris Smith (06:52):
Yes, a roof void, you can stand up in with boards
on and everything else. WhatI've been told by BCT is that
they wanted to replace thevalley gutter because it's, we
can see here, it's all thefelt's coming away. And it looks
like there's two or three layersof felt has been patched. So
they just wanted to make surethat it wasn't going to affect
(07:13):
their bats or do it in such away that it wouldn't affect the
bats. And this
Steve Roe (07:21):
can say this, there's a little MDF box, with a load of
and then some doors on
Chris Smith (07:25):
this house. So in they've had two other roost
visits and they've obviouslywanted to contain the droppings
and everything. And the batslook like they're going to be in
the cavity or the soffit on theoutside. And so presumably this
if we open it is a little bathouse. And then we go look. So
(07:53):
the roof here it's a moderntrust. Rafter roof sits up
against the gable end, which isblockwork. The outside of the
cavity will be brickwork. Idon't know looking at it at the
moment where the cavity is gotinsulation in it. But a wooden
to think it's going to be fullof insulation, it looks like
it's a 1970s 80s building. Somaybe half the cavity has got
(08:15):
insulation in it. And there's areasonable amount of droppings
stuck on cobwebs. And it lookslike they'd been pushed out of
the top of the cavity wall orbetween the top of the block
work and the underfilled andthen just catching in spider's
webs just reach in and grab acouple and they just crumble up
(08:45):
to dust. So typical batdroppings. They did say a little
while ago that their boost was200. So that's a really nice big
roost. And as I drove down here,on the left hand side of the
road here that the House backson to trees woodland and it
looks like a little stream downthere. So presumably, it's a
very good spot for foraging. Sothey've obviously picked the
(09:09):
house because of that.
Steve Roe (09:11):
So this bat house has been put in like save because of
a previous visit was the issuethe number of droppings or was
it back into the living space or
Chris Smith (09:19):
on the original boost reports they were putting
a new boiler in and the batdroppings were around where the
new boiler was going in. And sothey didn't know about the bat
droppings until they were put inthe boiler room. And then they
wanted to contain the batspartly from coming into the
living space, but also to stopthe droppings building up around
(09:40):
the boiler. I have found beforenow bats occasionally climbing
into boilers to keep warm. So itisn't really something you want
apnea you want to keep the batsand the droppings out of your
boiler so they've obviouslyagreed some format just for
creating this box that then issealed against the blockwork
Look so that the bat droppingsdon't fall out, they don't get
(10:03):
into the boiler. And then as aside benefit, obviously they
don't have the Mr. Plum said hecleans out regularly to couple
of times a year, the batdroppings in here, but then
doesn't have bat droppings inthe rest of the roof space. And
the work they have said BCT thatthey want to do is on the valley
(10:27):
gutters here, which are probablyat close this three metres away
from the front of that house.
And they obviously really keenon their bats because they want
to make sure they're doing thework in such a way that they're
not going to disturb the bats orminimise disturbance to the
bats.
Steve Roe (10:44):
The roof structure we're studying, it's a really
modern structure, and it'spoured out in the middle. And
like Chris says, We've got amodern timber truss structure in
the bitumen felts or rips fewmetres away from the from the
box. And we can see evidence ofthe starts of old wasps or
Hornets nests underneath thetiles.
Unknown (11:02):
And whether whether this has been pulled apart to
look at what they've got therein order to assess what needs to
do to repair the valley gutteror whether it's just falling
apart for old age, I'm not sure.
But in places there's two orthree layers and it's sagging.
So I think they've done somerepairs, or perhaps done because
the the roof here looks like itmight have been extended. So
(11:28):
maybe what they've done isthey've extended in the past.
And when they've joined the rooftogether, the change in
direction is going to be wherethe tiles cut. And if tiles are
cut, these are interlocking, youcan see from the back here,
they're interlocking pantiles ofsome sort. And if they if you
have a big tiles, if you cutthem, you'd necessarily have
(11:49):
destroyed some of the bit wherethey seal against each other the
images. So it may be that that'swhere the problem is. But we'll
have to go and have a look onthe outside and go and see.
Alright, let's, let's make ourway out. Just like the next
piece of this before my timewe're just gonna have a quick
(12:16):
look on the outside. And thenI'll come on over word with you
about the works that you'veplanned. And we'll have a look
at what you want to do when it'sraining or guys. Go in and out
quickly. And Steve, so this isthe gable end. And there's just
(12:41):
a few dropping still on there.
It's a bit dark looking at it.
But they're obviously goingunderneath the soffit.
Somewhere. And your work overhere. Yeah. Long will be
absolutely fine. Because yes,that one even you can yes, you
(13:04):
can see the the valley with themortar coming out either. So one
of the problems and so youshould be absolutely fine.
Because yeah, they'll obviouslyhave to take off one or two
tiles either side. Yeah. Andthen put the new Valley plastic
all the way down. It'll run allthe way down to the gutter, and
(13:25):
then just cut the tiles in. Butthe closest they're going to be
well, if they scaffold up here,they're going to be metre and a
half to two metres away from thebat. So if you're doing it in
September when the likelihood isthe may still be one or two
bats, but you won't have anymaternity leaves that shouldn't
disturb it.
Homeowner (13:46):
That's the thing.
Exactly. The young might havegone.
Chris Smith (13:49):
Yeah, well, the young should by then be flying,
be out and about. And you mightjust end up with one or two
that's there. But that should beminimum matter disturbance for
the bass.
Homeowner (13:59):
We haven't gone out recently to look at them flying.
But when we did once a couple of100
Chris Smith (14:05):
as anyone ever counted them out for you
exactly.
Homeowner (14:07):
No, we're not exactly No, no, we did count them out
and roughly. All right, I thinkwe're up to about 200 Move the
camera down the
Chris Smith (14:17):
Yes. Straight over we keep
Homeowner (14:22):
our garden as you can see, it's sort of semi wild.
Unknown (14:26):
So would you be interested in finding out how
many bats are there? I'm justthinking because we've got quite
a few volunteers in theStaffordshire bat group and I'm
wondering if anyone who livesclose to you would come and
count them and
Homeowner (14:41):
the only problem would say we've got is the
moment for a few dropping forwhatever reason. We always know
Chris Smith (14:49):
this. Yeah, to get them all right. So we just got
my notes here.
Steve Roe (15:00):
As Chris is now making some notes based on what
we've just seen upstairs. So Imean, based on what we see
outside Chris, what's yourrecommendation to the homeowner
gonna be?
Unknown (15:14):
Okay, looking at what we've seen in the roof space and
looking at what they've told meso far to BCT, which will be
passed on to me. I think it willreally just be a case of making
sure that they aren't doing thework when the likelihood that
the bats are here. They havesaid that about Santi at the
moment, but maternity moves movethey they'll often move around
(15:37):
depend on the weather conditionson the insects, so it's quite
likely they could come backlater on. So you can't sort of
make the assumption that gonenow permanently. So I think, you
know, I'd be looking at askingthem not to do the work until
after being in September. Andmaking sure there's a method of
work in place for thecontractors, the work that I've
(16:02):
been taught by BCT, if that'sexactly what the work is, isn't
too far away, is three metresaway from the box they're
created. But it's not in thesame area of roof where the bats
have roosting in the gable insoffits. So it shouldn't be a
big disturbance. So really, ifwe can timetable it when the
(16:23):
bats are unlikely to be there,and we can make sure that the
contractors know what to lookfor do everything by hand, take
it apart slowly. And when theyput any new under felting
underneath where they're goingto put the valleys in. That if
it's all in bitchiness, then,that way we've, we've done
absolutely the best we can forthe bats, the homeowner can have
(16:44):
all the repairs done, andthey've been really considerate
about the bats. And hopefullyeveryone will feel it's been a
success. I always accept cups oftea. I'm sorry, Steven. But it's
twofold. Because it also partlyrelaxes everyone. Everyone sits
down with a cup of tea, andthey're doing things and then
(17:05):
occupy. But also, I do a lot ofstuff in Birmingham, which is
for Asian families and allIndian community. They all have
got maybe not so much some ofthe younger people. But a lot of
the older people, it's reallyimportant for them when you come
(17:26):
into their house to welcome youin and they want to and so
actually refusing to drink isnot frowned upon. But obviously
it's just difficult because theydidn't want to it don't want to
welcome you here so. So I alwaysexcept for city. So can
everybody about the proposedworks?
Homeowner (17:46):
We hadn't heard of it before. Because the gullies are
often given as a problem. You'llsee when you go out with the
cement under the towers breaksaway fills the galley initial
coming down, and we get a lot ofmoss, because that's north and
this was certainly actually gota lot of moss on that side. So
we asked a Chappie to comearound and say, Could we reach
cement repoint him? And he said,Why don't we put in equal dry
(18:10):
valleys? I'd have a dry galley.
But dry bagging. And I've neverheard of them before. Have you
have you? Yes. So basically,it's yeah, it's if you have not,
you know, you've put a plasticmembrane under and you bring the
tiles together. So I had a wordwith them. They said it didn't
doesn't create too much noise.
(18:31):
But they will be here with thefourth property. That's bit less
than a week, perhaps.
Chris Smith (18:36):
And obviously, what don't have to do that's to take
out some of the tiles eitherside of the valley, and then cut
some new ones. So that it allmatches in. And I see I see the
the underfilled. Up there wasripped. I don't know whether
they'd taken that off to have alook at the because
Homeowner (18:52):
No, no, no, that's been ripped for ages. No, I
Chris Smith (18:56):
haven't. So presumably they'll be placed
that well they do they will dois just put a button in I think
looking at me because becausethat will will close off the
value. So it was a real bigproblem. Yeah. Because Because
obviously what you've got is thecement is at the end of the the
tiles where they've been cut.
And as everything expands orcontracts over time, it all
falls out. So yes, it will avoidall of that for you. It would
Homeowner (19:22):
before galleries you have to do
Unknown (19:24):
that. And so yes, and it's not too close to the bat
roost. So So I think if yes,they're bound to do, there's
bound to be some noise becausethey'll have to put a tower
scaffold up or scaffold andtowards working around. Normally
your back boost I suspect goesat the end of September, end of
Homeowner (19:48):
September couldn't see them really starting before
the mid to end of September.
Unknown (19:54):
In which case if you're if your bat roost, which
normally will start to break upas a return to some time you
know mid to late August, by thetime we get to middle of
September, hopefully, most ofthe bats if not all of them will
have gotten maybe down to asmall number. So the odd one up
to up to October. Yes, you'redropping out? Yeah. Yes. So So
(20:14):
planning the work for Septembershould not be a problem. And
what I'll do is, I think that ifyou've got a method of work that
you can give to the contractorsso that they're aware of the
bats, and then they'll belooking out for everything.
Because obviously, a lot ofcontractors they understand
that's a protected with a methodof work to look at to work with.
(20:36):
There'll be aware of the backs,they'll know that if they find
anything, they can just stopwork. And you know, you've got
my telephone number, I canalways then speak to him on the
phone or come out if necessary.
Yeah, and I think that's it, Ithink if you if you've got a
contractor or can find acontractor who, who understands
about bats, it's so much easierbecause the vaccine themselves
aren't harming the property, thebats in themselves aren't going
(21:00):
to be a problem from a healthpoint of view. It's just the
fact that they're there. Andpeople need to be aware of how
to to work around them andtimescale
Homeowner (21:11):
mainly, because it gets very hot in my car be
fairly warm from the last fewdays. But, but it's not too bad.
I usually have a mask on when Igo up anyway.
Chris Smith (21:23):
And being in the roof space. At least it's not
too but you're not gonna smellinto the house.
Homeowner (21:28):
No, no, no, not at all in the house.
Good. Good.
Are we, you know now that we'vecome out of Europe. Are we still
registrered with Europe? Is it adifferent legislation?
Chris Smith (21:41):
It's all still the same law, which is the wildlife
and countryside act 1981. Andwhat happens is they've just
there are then regulations,which part of them were European
regulations, then they've justbeen amended and dumped into
British law. Separate from now,but there's no real change in
the law is no change in in theprotection for bats at all.
(22:04):
They're just maybe changing theactual regulate regulations. You
have to quote if you quote them,but the same volunteer or all
volunteers? Yes, yes. But my myday job is on the building
surveyor, and I specialise indoing surveys for bats.
So that's why I end up doing endup doing this with bats. And
(22:27):
particularly, I ended up doingthings where people have got
building works, because I knowabout the materials and
everything else, this is wheremy, my skills tend to come
across. Basically, I can I cando the report back to the Bat
Conservation Trust, they'll sendyou a letter, you can then have
that letter to give to yourcontractor. So your contractor
(22:48):
will have a method of work, youknow how they should go about it
to minimise disturbance and harmto bats. But also giving them
some comfort that they're notgoing to be doing anything
illegal by doing the work foryou, inadvertently you're Yeah,
that's good.
Homeowner (23:07):
You say end of September is the best rather
than
Unknown (23:10):
I think from the middle of September onwards, you,
there's always a chance youcould have one or two backs in
there. Yeah, but the work is farenough away from the area where
the bats are. And hopefully theydoing the valleys. There'll be
taking a few tiles off eitherside of the valley, they're not
doing the whole. So they're in alocalised area, yes, there will
(23:30):
be some noise, maybe a bit ofdust, but they can do all of
that to keep minimised. Keep itaway from the loose access. So
it should be absolutely fine.
Homeowner (23:43):
That's reassuring.
Anyway, it's nice that we, youknow, yeah, that's very helpful.
Because we will always do worry,you're gonna say, well, we can't
do that sort of thing I woulddo. And we have got a problem
with those Galatian.
Chris Smith (23:53):
Yeah, that shouldn't be a problem that we
saw, you'd be saying, No, youcan't do anything. Oh, no, no.
And this is this. This is whatthe whole the volunteer roosters
the systems for is to get peopleout to who know about that to
talk to you as homeowners andhopefully, find a way that you
(24:13):
can, you can live in your houseand share it with bats and both
be happy. That's what the theaim of it is. It's just
They were very nice. They werethey're nice. People aren't
sometimes difficult, you know,trying to balance you need works
done and the bats are there, buttrying to come up with a scheme
that allows both to go ahead.
(24:49):
really good. And they'reinterested in the bats. Yeah.
And I think that's just it's sointeresting that bats that's
really where The whole versusthe thing works well, because
they're interested in theirbats. And then you can, you can,
you know, retain that interestand actually get more involved.
(25:11):
What's,
Steve Roe (25:12):
what's the next step for you then?
Unknown (25:14):
Okay, so I'll take some photographs, taking a few notes,
what I'll do now is I will gohome. And there's a standard
form that the Bat ConservationTrust have done in conjunction
with Natural England. That makesit easy for a roost visitor to
fill in, it's got a lot ofquestions on it. And a lot of
(25:36):
stuff that needs to be answeredabout how buildings are put
together, where the bats are,what they're using as how
they're getting in and out. Sothat at least, when BCT take
that information to NaturalEngland, naturing can read
through it, they can readthrough my notes will be added
to it about what I think thebats are doing, how they're
(25:58):
using the building, and what theworks are what would involve in
disturbance, or harm to bats.
And then they can read throughall of the notes there that I've
written, they can look throughall the standard bits and
pieces, ticking all the boxes.
And hopefully, it will allowNatural England's officer to
make a quick decision.
Steve Roe (26:18):
So I mean, you've done countless ones of these
over the years, and you'reclearly very happy doing it to
take time out of your day to doit in your spare time. What
what's the value of the VBRVservice?
Unknown (26:28):
Okay, the value, the value to bats, I think is is
really big, because that forthat for homeowner, for
homeowners got bats, a lot ofhomeowners, I think when they
talk to contractors, or maybewhen they buy the stuff in the
press, bats aren't always givenvery good press bats are seen as
(26:50):
an issue, bats are seen as astop on people being allowed to,
to use their house, how theywant to use it, to repair it, to
maintain it and extend it. Andreally, that isn't how the bat
should be seen. And thevolunteer visitor service is a
way for Natural England to helphomeowners except their bats.
(27:11):
And for me, it's a really goodway of supporting bats, but
equally supporting thehomeowners because what, what I
ideally want to do is to have ahomeowner who is happy to have
their bats, they can get thatbee pest and they can get the
extension and they can dowhatever they want. But if they
can keep their bats, then bothof them on a win. And if they
(27:34):
can do it in such a way thatactually then they maybe become
keener on their bats. Sometimespeople will then get involved
with the local bank group.
Sometimes they'll allow peopleto come in and do boost cats,
sometimes it's just then thatyou've got a contact that maybe
it's just going to talk to theirneighbours and be very happy
(27:55):
saying their neighbours all batsand not a problem at all. And
then they'll also be verypositive about the whole use
this to service Bat ConservationTrust Natural England. And it's
really just trying to get a winwin for everybody. And I think
the volunteers for service cando that. You do get ones that
are difficult, you get oneswhere the problem is so
(28:19):
intractable from a physicalbuilding point of view that you
have no alternative other thanexclude the bats. The problem
can also be so intractablebecause of the householder that
the household has attitude.
However much you spend timetalking to them however much you
(28:39):
go and, and maybe go on tourthree visits, and really work on
engagements, everything else,they're never going to like
their bats. So sometimes you endup having to go down the route
of exclusions. But that is thatis rare. It's also a good
(29:00):
learning thing. It's it's verygood way of, you know, learning
how to deal with people. Andit's part of what the training
for the volunteer boostersdisease, about how to deal with
people who have thesedifficulties and had to come up
with ways of, of supporting thehomeowner and the backs in
everything from how you talk tothem to how you approach it to
how positive you can be abouttheir works and everything else.
Steve Roe (29:24):
I was gonna say you've answered that question. I
was gonna say you said hopefullyit's positive experience mean? I
mean, it's very hard to say buton a percentage, how many are
not a positive experience fromthe homeowner side of things?
Unknown (29:36):
If I think if I assessed not been a positive
experience by excluding bats,which is the that is the worst
outcome. Absolutely everybodyapart from the homeowner because
the homeowner clearly doesn'twant them but the backs to
exclude the roost of bats is gotto be the worst outcome. So in
(29:58):
the past five years, I thinkcause physically done to roost
exclusions and advised our thirdone. So, how many roosters it's
do I do a year? That doesn't 15.
So out of so that's maybe threeout of 45/50 visits, which are
think I don't know how thatcompares to other roost
(30:21):
visitors. But the exclusionsthat I did do, one of them had
gone on for a number of yearswith a lot of roofers as they
tried all sorts of differentways. And it really was
absolutely, after four or fiveyears, maybe more than that, it
was the only way to solve thesolution. So three out of 45 in
the past couple of three years,I think it's got to be
(30:45):
reasonably good as a as abenchmark to start off with,
Steve Roe (30:49):
yes, not bad as and you touched on in there. You've
had to travel slightly further,because there's a lack of
volunteers around and thatnumber has been slowly dwindling
over the over the last fewyears. Where do you see the
future of the service going?
Unknown (31:04):
I'd like to see the future the service carrying on
as it is, I know that have beenfunding issues with bat
conservation, just naturallyEngland are know that they've
got alternative fundings inplace. I think the service is a
very good one. I think thedifficulty is that there are a
(31:25):
lot of people who it isdifficult to commit to it.
Because if you become quiteengaged with the homeowners and
their bats, you can become quitecommitted to it. And you feel
you ought to be going out. Anddoing lots and lots of work to
help and support them. Lots ofyou know, night counts on how
(31:46):
many bats were coming out. Andit is just difficult because
we're volunteers. So on, I'vegot a full time job, my full
time job involves me and bats,which means I'm doing at this
time of year, evening surveysand doing surveys. And it is it
is a real difficult balance todo. In the winter, it's a lot
easier because I'm not doingevening surveys. So I think for
(32:10):
volunteer, I think the really,the more volunteers we can have,
the better. And I'm always happyto train new people to come and
do it. And I'm probably I'llprobably produce one new roost
visitor every couple of years atthe moment. So the volunteers
will come out with me, they'llcome on booths visits, they will
observe to start with thenthey'll end up you know, sort of
(32:34):
running the routes, visit withme looking at it and making sure
and helping and supporting themand, and stepping in if
necessary. But it isn't a quickand easy process. Because at the
same time, they've got to do allof the usual work for getting a
licence from bat ecology,biology and everything else. So
if someone's already got alicence as a consultant, they
(32:56):
can quite quickly, you know,transfer over to get that extra
licence to do volunteer routesvisits. But for members of back
groups who aren't working inbats, it's quite a big
commitment for them to alsospend the time to do the
training to come out and do thisas well as me doing the route
visits might be evenings,weekends, like today. It's just
(33:21):
a big commitment. So I wouldreally like to see the whole
volunteer blue service carry on.
And I would hope the fundingcould be found to do it because
I just think it is such apositive experience most of the
time for homeowners and bats
Steve Roe (33:37):
Great stuff and nicely timed just as the rain
starts. Chris Smith, thank youvery much.
Chris Smith (33:41):
Thank you, Steve.
Steve Roe (33:45):
Well, a huge thanks to Chris for having me along on
that route visit. If you'd liketo find out more about how to
become a route visitor the linkis in the show notes. Now I
mentioned at the start the showthat you guys can appear on
BatChat to we want you to get intouch with your favourite
battery experience. It doesn'tmatter whether it was the first
time you've ever seen about youmight have seen a brief shadow
(34:05):
flying past as you were leavingyour house. Perhaps you've been
checking bat boxes with yourlocal bat group. And so if
that's of close for the firsttime or so of that species that
you've never seen before,perhaps you've counted a bat
roost this summer and somethingunusual happened, maybe heard
what bats sound like on adetector and thought it was the
coolest thing ever. Whetheryou're new to bats or a seasoned
(34:25):
bat lover, we want to hear allabout your favourite bat
experience. So please do get intouch. The voicemail link is in
the show notes. And don't worry,you can hear your message back
and rerecord it if you don'tlike it before sending it to us.
Messages can be up to 90 secondslong. We can't wait to hear from
you. And we'll be back in twoweeks time with the Sussex bat
group. So see you then.
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