January 26, 2022 • 21 mins
S3E30 This week Steve is in Surrey at RHS Garden Wisley with Principal Entomologist Dr Andrew Salisbury. Andrew sits down with Steve in the brand new wildlife garden outside their new laboratory building to tell us about the work the RHS do and how we can improve our gardens for wildlife including bats.
This week we also have a piece of nature writing by James Gilbert. James creates 'thumbnail' pieces and tweets them out and he's created a longer piece especially for BatChat called "Made with Echoes".
- RHS Garden Wisley website, twitter and Instagram
- RHS Plants for Pollinators list
- Andrew Salisbury is on twitter and Instagram and his RHS profile is here
- Info on how to garden for bats can be found on our website
- James Gilbert is on twitter
- Morgan Brind who narrated Made with Echoes is on twitter and Instagram
If you have a piece of nature writing or poetry about bats that you'd like to share with us, drop us an email to comms@bats.org.uk and your piece may end up on the show!
Join the conversation on social media using #BatChat:
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Twitter: https://twitter.com/_BCT_
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/batconservationtrust
For more bat news, head to our website https://www.bats.org.uk/
Producer: Steve Roe @SteveRoeBatMan
Cover Art: Rachel Hudson http://rachelhudsonillustration.com/
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Steve Roe (00:22):
Hi, and welcome to BatChat. This is the podcast
where we bring you the storiesfrom the world of bat
conservation. We're continuingseries three with a couple of
guests this week. I'm Steve Roe,a trustee of the Bat
Conservation Trust. I've beeninvolved in bat conservation for
over two decades. And in thattime, I've come to learn that
there are some really greatprojects and stories out there.
If you're a regular listener ofthe show, it's great to have you
(00:43):
back with us. And if this isyour first time in joining us
welcome along. Episodes in thisseries are being released every
second Wednesday from nowthrough to the spring, and you
can join the conversation onlineusing the hashtag BatChat.
that's all one word. As we meeteach of our guests, you'll hear
from people working to make adifference in the world of bat
conservation. People who careabout individual species, people
(01:05):
who concentrate on oneparticular part of bat ecology,
and people who are working withbats at a landscape scale. As
well as keeping up with thelatest news and hearing from
people in the world of bats. Wehope that you'll be inspired to
get involved because bats needour help. Now to start us off
this week we've got something alittle bit different. During the
first set of lockdowns, I cameacross a Twitter account
(01:26):
belonging to James Gilbert.
James was tweeting thumbnailbits of nature writing he's
created. So I sent him a messageasking if he'd write us
something for BatChat. He wasunderstandably a bit cautious as
a longer piece might dilute hisstyle, but he's made a lovely
piece for us. It's narrated byMorgan Brind, who recently co
hosted the BCT batty awards fortalented achievement. This is
'Made with Echoes'.
Morgan Brind (01:58):
At the toe of a sweeping hillslope, beneath
sheep trails and terracettes,alder trees stand gracefully
beside gliding waters Theirconical crowns wane of fine
summer detail, as the darkgrows. A song thrush madly
sings; clear, bright notes ringout, as the crescent moon creeps
(02:22):
low across the parish skyline.
Alas, this beautiful sound isshort-lived. Soon in the absence
of his voice, a pipistrelle batbreaks into view against the
flame-blue sky—as if thethrush’s last note was her call
to motion. Fast-beating wingscarry her back and forth along
(02:43):
the ribbon of alders, neatlytied to the riverine contours.
She flitters beside the landwardfringes that overreach into
vacant pasture, just beyond theriver’s murmur. Shallow swoops,
sudden turns; wing tips at timesclose to clipping branches. Yet
she is flying a calculated path,precision-made with echoes,
(03:07):
through the stilled lee of thetrees, where gnats and midges
gather in dizzying numbers.
Vague figure-of-eights are drawnin piercing these dipteran
clouds, floating in the warm,riparian air. Moments pass and
she changes course, rising up,veering away behind a break in
(03:31):
the canopy layer. There, she ismerely glimpsed through
leaf-edged interstices; aflickering shape, reminiscent of
flipbook animation. Then secondslater, gone.
As darkness advances, thehillslope weakens in definition
(03:55):
against the sky. A medievalchurch lies at the valley-hill
divide, overlooking the river’sfloodplain. The clean, dark
outline of its prominent towerand saddleback roof, sharply
contrasts with the gentlycurving ground. A driveway,
formal and flanked by shapelylime trees, leads to the
(04:17):
church’s porch entrance.
Presently lamp-lit, a miscellanyof moths flutter in the light
spill. A bird-like shadow racesacross the loose stone. Eyes are
at once drawn upwards and meetwith a fast-flying bat,
propelled on long, pointedwings. The most fleeting
impression, yet enough todiscern a noctule bat, making a
(04:39):
laser-straight pass across thewhite glow, before shrinking
into the almost black, as thechurch bells chime nine.
Unknown (05:13):
That was made with echoes by James Gilbert. A huge
thanks to James for creatingthat beautiful piece which
conjures up some really strongimagery, and describes the
fleeting glimpses and the actionof bats. Well, something that
can be hard to capture in words.
You can find lots more ofJames's work on his Twitter
account, there's a link in theshow notes. If you've got a
piece of writing or poetry thatyou'd like to share with us,
drop us an email to the addressin the show notes and you never
(05:35):
know it might be featured on afuture episode. Now, back in
August, I was invited to RHSWisley as part of their Hilltop
Live series, along with ShirleyThompson, who features in our
first ever episode of BatChatand Bat Conservation Trust
staff. We gave a talk to membersof the public who were visiting
that day in the new Hilltopbuilding, which is the RHS home
of gardening science. Whilst wewere there for the day, I
(05:59):
managed to speak to our nextguest who is Dr. Andrew
Salisbury, the principalentomologist for the RHS. And I
had no idea that the RHS eve hadentomologists. As you'll hear in
this interview, we're satoutside the Hilltop building in
the wildlife garden. So I askedAndrew to introduce himself and
tell us why the RHS have expertslike himself.
Andrew Salisbury (06:22):
Okay, I'm Andy Salisbury, principal
entomologist is the title I havethese days. I'm part of what's
known as the plant our team forthe RHS. And we're here to
provide exactly advice andresearch on garden insects and
other animal life really. Soit's not actually just
entomology. There are honoreeinsects that come in there as
(06:45):
well things the wood lice, andthe millipedes and centipedes,
and spiders are all part of ourwork as well. Occasionally, we
talk about deer, mammals bats,even on the odd occasion. And
we're providing advice on moreand more about encouraging
wildlife and the biodiversitythat gardens support. But we are
(07:05):
there also to provide advice andthings that people don't really
want to their gardens to so wedo talk about slugs and lily
beetles, and things like that aswell.
Unknown (07:14):
And like I said, I've never been here before. And it's
a really large site, I waswarned by your colleague Helen
when I came that you'll neverwalk around at all in a day. How
long has the site been here?
The RHS took on the site in1904. So the RHS has had RHS
Wisley for over 100 years. Butit was a garden before then it
(07:34):
was actually that's when it wasdonated to the society.
Okay, and we're now sat, wherewe're sat next to what is called
the Hilltop building, which isliterally brand new. And there
are members of the publicwalking around in what is your
quite literally brand newwildlife garden? How come it's
brand new and why is it any justbeen created?
(07:55):
Well, the RHS has always had ascience base, we did have what
is known as Liberty building,which was built throughout the
the First World War and that hasserved its purpose. The RHS has
a big science remit is it ispart of the RHS's purpose. And
we needed new facilities, youknow, 100 year old lab building.
(08:18):
It served his purpose and ourresearch over the past 10/20
years really has picked up. Weneed a new building. So hilltop
was built it houses the RHScollections, the herbarium, the
entomology collections, theinsect collection, it has brand
new labs where we can carry outresearch into not just those
things that affect garden plantsin a bad way, but also the
(08:41):
benefits of gardens forbiodiversity, wellbeing, and
even sort of climate changemitigation, that sort of thing.
So there's lots of researchgoing on there. And to surround
it, of course, to surround anynew building or HS we have to
have got so we're setting thewildlife garden at the moment
one of the new gardens but thereis also a well being garden and
(09:04):
a world food garden as well.
Steve Roe (09:06):
And the wildlife garden here is like say it's
just been created and there'sall sorts of different plants
and even though some of thestuffs only gone in the last
couple of months, there's loadsof stuff in flower here. How
much time have you spentplanning this particular garden?
How much how much time andplanning has gone into creating
this?
Unknown (09:24):
Oh, there were there were many years. I mean, it's
the garden is designed by a wellknown garden designer Ann Marie
Powell. And she took inspirationfrom art she has his own
research where we a few yearsago we did a big research
protocol plants for bugs, wherewe were looking at whether it's
really native plants that arebest for wildlife and gardens.
(09:46):
And it was filled design withsort of native plants, northern
hemisphere plants which areclosely related to native garden
plants and purely exoticsouthern hemisphere plants. And
we found that while yes, nativeswere slightly better but you In
the native Northern Hemisphere,plants also really good for for
invertebrates and otherwildlife, as were, the exotic
(10:07):
plants also have their value aswell. So it's just flowering
later or providing winter cover.
So gardens sort of built on thatknowledge. And so it's not
purely native plants are a fewnon native plants in here to
about Israel. But yeah, I mean,many years wanted planning in
this building,We're sat next to a shed with a
green roof on it. And there's aline of pine trees behind us.
(10:28):
For listeners at home just sortof describe the sort of
different habitats we've gotaround here then.
Andrew Salisbury (10:34):
Well, they're all sort of the the traditional
garden border and gardenhedgerows, they're also
important, there is a lot ofwater of very different types
from a small garden pond to avery large pond. Water being we
know is incredibly hot and oneof the best ways to quickly
introducing new habitat togarden. Literally within days of
(10:57):
filling the ponds or hoursactually, we had water boatman
and pond skaters coming in. Andon a sunny day, this summer,
we've only had about three orfour species of dragonfly and
damselfly come in. I've alreadyseen larva in the ponds. And the
ponds were only filled this timelast year. So it's less than a
year we've already got larvaein.
Steve Roe (11:16):
And I mean, there's a couple of really nice sculptures
and I can see there's a sort ofan insect house where there's
loads of bits of dead wood andpine cones in this little
wildlife pond next to us. We'vegot a log pile. So I guess
you've sort of had someinfluence in terms of bringing
the insects in.
Unknown (11:31):
We have I mean, it was the you know, the planting
itself is just one thing. Butyes, the log piles, the habitat
tower, as it's known. There'salso bird hide where people can
watch. And there's lots ofinformation we have areas of
long grass and areas of shortergrass. They recently just found
one of the areas of long grass.
So yeah, lots of differenthabitats here and long piles of
(11:53):
compost heaps. We're alsomonitoring the moths on site, we
have a Rothamsted insect, lighttrap on site. And there's
somewhere where people can,there's a bird hide as well.
Steve Roe (12:07):
And for people at home who are listening, if they
want to create space in theirgarden, to encourage wildlife,
what would you say that the oneor two things that you would do
if you wanted to encouragewildlife to your garden?
Unknown (12:19):
The first thing I have to say is it's not actually
about individual space gardensare great for wildlife. They are
already absolutely fantastic forwildlife. And the best piece of
advice there is, I always giveis put more plants in, let's say
more plants. But when you getinto specifics, flowering
plants, we have lists ofgeneralists on various website
(12:40):
but they aren't yes has itsplans for pollinators list. Our
own research said the moreflowers you get surprisingly,
the more pollinators you get.
The more plants you have, themore invertebrates you have.
Gets longer season. So plantsare flowering throughout the
year there are winter winterpollinators out there. If you've
got space trying to water be itfrom a water bath rock they
(13:01):
through to a large pond, theyall provide value. Log piles if
you can get them in. But yes, Isay overall, get some plants in
more plants, the better.
And I mean one of them apartfrom doing this podcast, I'd say
one of the reasons we're here isI'm here with the Bat
Conservation Trust and we'redoing a talk for members of the
public. We've put out a batdetector we've posted on a
(13:24):
static recording back detector,which we've put up in the bird
hides. And we've gone throughthose recordings. And I've only
spent 10 minutes going throughand we've already picked up five
bat species. How many differentspecies of insects have you got
here at Wisley?
It's very difficult. So we haveactually got records going back
of the insects on site, goingback to 1889. So that's you
(13:47):
know, that's that's good. 15years for the RHS took on the
garden we've had some oldrecords, but I mean it is it is
going to be in the 1000s ofspecies. The Garden as a whole,
you just need to look at some ofthe research that's gone out
there you can go back toJennifer Owens book on where she
studied her less the garden for30 years. And she recorded two
or 3000 species of invertebratesand the small, less the garden
(14:09):
we've got over 200 acres herewizzley So it's huge the number
of species we're going to havethe moth trap, the rotted insect
trap that we have recorded over600 species of larger moths
since it's been on site in theearly 70s. We have things like
behind us and wildlife gardenthere are some standing dead
pines and in one of those pinesis the only known site in
(14:32):
Britain for a long hornedbeetle. The house long Beetle so
it's not known to be breeding itanywhere else in Britain may
occur under the trees in thelocality but that is the only
known tree here in the wildlifegarden.
And do you think that's becausethis is the only site or is it
just because it's one of thoseGenus or groups of fauna out
(14:54):
there that are so understudied?
I think it's a bit of a mixture.
I think the the beetle I'mtalking about, it's quite a
large beetle, it is quitenoticeable. It has been recorded
in the area for a long time. Butnobody's really found its
breeding site. So the only onewe know it is continually
breeding is that tree. But Iknow there are other good
candidate trees in the area onthe local Commons as well. But
wisly also has some amazingcreatures. This is something
(15:19):
called the word cricket, whichis a rare insect in Britain.
It's basically you know, fromthe New Forest, some woodlands
and forests on the Isle ofWight. And here, it was leaked,
and the surrounding commons, howit got here, we don't really
know there are rumours about itcoming in with nursery stock at
some point nearly 100 years ago,but it just goes to show that
gardens can support someinteresting and wild creatures.
(15:47):
And you mentioned some of theextensive research that you guys
have done here. How does thatresearch compare to other
institutions like Kew forexample. What is it that you
guys do that's different tothem, for example?
Andrew Salisbury (15:58):
Well, the RHS is very much focused on
ornamental plants and gardening.
So it's very much focused on thegardening public and how green
spaces is private green spaces,or managed green spaces, in
parks, etc, can actually benefitus in the many ways that they do
so not just for thebiodiversity, but also safer for
(16:20):
wellbeing. For climate change,mitigation, pollution, control
these, these are benefits thatour gardens have. And we are
focused on the gardener.
Steve Roe (16:33):
And have you seen a change in trend over the years
of the general public? Do youfind that there is resistance to
encourage wildlife? Or is thatsomething that you've seen
change and people actually nowfar more likely to encourage? So
is it still a bit of a Marmitething? Westside people either
love it or they hate it?
Andrew Salisbury (16:51):
I mean, it was me. But there are still people
out there who who go in, if itmoves in their garden, if it's
down when they go, and theydon't want it to stay. And we
do, we do get a bit of that. Butto be honest, I'm really
pleased. So we, we have we areseeing a change out there. I
think we shouldn't change that.
It's difficult. actuallyquantify it. But I really do get
the feeling people begin torealise their gardens are great
(17:12):
for biodiversity. They are greatgreen spaces. The things that
come and nibble their plants arepart of that. We are seeing more
more and more of that I'm surewe are at the RHS, we're
encouraging that almost saywe're encouraging and just we
have research projects going onto slug showing that they're not
all bad. slugs or snails dodamage plants. And then some of
(17:35):
them do do eat plants. A lot ofthem just don't they actually
feed on decomposing organicmatter. So even at that level,
we're trying to convince peoplenow that accepting a bit of
damage to their plants is partof the biodiversity that gardens
can support.
Steve Roe (17:50):
And if listeners at home are thinking, Oh, this
sounds great. I want to come andvisit RHS Wisley when would you
say is the best time of year tocome? Or is there always
something to say?
Unknown (17:58):
I think almost contractually, there is always
something to say Oh, I simplyjust say to their harshest I
mean even or even on a terriblerainy day these days. Wisley
looks great. I've you know, Icome here I could come to wisly
at least three times a week.
Every day is different everytime it's lovely. Absolutely
chucking it down with rain and acold November day and the site
still looks great. Obviouslyit's more pleasant to walk
(18:21):
around and all of these lovelysunny day but any time of year
is good there are there aresculptures there's there's
winter greenery, and things inflower and winter. And to escape
the showers these days there isover displays inside the hilltop
as well which is anotheradvantage of this new building
there are actually displays andthings you've come inside and
(18:42):
see as well.
I was going to say going insidecertainly the ground floor where
where we're gonna be doing thetour later there's there's a
green wall, there's loads ofdisplays, jars full of all the
different types of seeds. Whatsort of talks and events do you
put on in that in that space?
There's all sorts of events.
There is something calledhilltop life that we're running
now. And there are talks everyday, twice a day. And there are
(19:05):
a range of subjects everythingfrom how to print an apple tree,
right the way through to I'vegiven talks on the best things
to do for I've given a talkcalled Invisible gardens havens
for wildlife just extolling thevirtues of how good gardens are
for wildlife. And then we'regetting guest speakers in as
well. So this week as part ofthe bat fest, we do have you
(19:28):
guys from the Bat Conservationcoming into to give a talk on
bats. So I'm really lookingforward to that. And so, there
there are constant round eventsevery day for people to see and
listen to as well.
Great stuff Dr Andrew SalisburyThank you very much. A big
thanks to Andrew for coming onthe show and to all the staff
(19:49):
involved in the Hilltop Liveseries. We had a brilliant time
down there. That's almost it forthis week. I hope you've enjoyed
it. If you take a look at theshow notes, you'll find all
sorts of links By guest's socialmedia pages, all sorts of
gardening advice from the RHSand our own advice on how to
garden for bats. As you'llhopefully now know, we're
running BatChat's first evercompetition during this series.
(20:10):
children's authors Emma Reynoldsand Angela Mills have kindly
donated copies of their booksabout bats. Angela has donated a
copy of Bobby the Brownlong-eared bat signed by both
Angela and Chris Packham, andEmma has donated a copy of her
newly released book Amara andthe bats. To enter the
competition to win one of thesebrilliant books. All you have to
do is write us a review aboutthis podcast Batchat and the two
(20:30):
winners will be picked at randomat the end of this series. Not
all podcast apps allow me toleave reviews, so you can find
instructions in the show notesof this episode. And please note
that we're only able to post theprizes to addresses in the
United Kingdom. Thank you ifyou're one of those who has left
us a review. We really do enjoyreading the commentary levers.
The series continues in twoweeks time so hit that follow
(20:52):
button so that you don't missit. Thanks for listening
Hi, and welcome to BatChat. This is the podcast
where we bring you the storiesfrom the world of bat
conservation. We're continuingseries three with a couple of
guests this week. I'm Steve Roe,a trustee of the Bat
Conservation Trust. I've beeninvolved in bat conservation for
over two decades. And in thattime, I've come to learn that
there are some really greatprojects and stories out there.
If you're a regular listener ofthe show, it's great to have you
(00:43):
back with us. And if this isyour first time in joining us
welcome along. Episodes in thisseries are being released every
second Wednesday from nowthrough to the spring, and you
can join the conversation onlineusing the hashtag BatChat.
that's all one word. As we meeteach of our guests, you'll hear
from people working to make adifference in the world of bat
conservation. People who careabout individual species, people
(01:05):
who concentrate on oneparticular part of bat ecology,
and people who are working withbats at a landscape scale. As
well as keeping up with thelatest news and hearing from
people in the world of bats. Wehope that you'll be inspired to
get involved because bats needour help. Now to start us off
this week we've got something alittle bit different. During the
first set of lockdowns, I cameacross a Twitter account
(01:26):
belonging to James Gilbert.
James was tweeting thumbnailbits of nature writing he's
created. So I sent him a messageasking if he'd write us
something for BatChat. He wasunderstandably a bit cautious as
a longer piece might dilute hisstyle, but he's made a lovely
piece for us. It's narrated byMorgan Brind, who recently co
hosted the BCT batty awards fortalented achievement. This is
'Made with Echoes'.
Morgan Brind (01:58):
At the toe of a sweeping hillslope, beneath
sheep trails and terracettes,alder trees stand gracefully
beside gliding waters Theirconical crowns wane of fine
summer detail, as the darkgrows. A song thrush madly
sings; clear, bright notes ringout, as the crescent moon creeps
(02:22):
low across the parish skyline.
Alas, this beautiful sound isshort-lived. Soon in the absence
of his voice, a pipistrelle batbreaks into view against the
flame-blue sky—as if thethrush’s last note was her call
to motion. Fast-beating wingscarry her back and forth along
(02:43):
the ribbon of alders, neatlytied to the riverine contours.
She flitters beside the landwardfringes that overreach into
vacant pasture, just beyond theriver’s murmur. Shallow swoops,
sudden turns; wing tips at timesclose to clipping branches. Yet
she is flying a calculated path,precision-made with echoes,
(03:07):
through the stilled lee of thetrees, where gnats and midges
gather in dizzying numbers.
Vague figure-of-eights are drawnin piercing these dipteran
clouds, floating in the warm,riparian air. Moments pass and
she changes course, rising up,veering away behind a break in
(03:31):
the canopy layer. There, she ismerely glimpsed through
leaf-edged interstices; aflickering shape, reminiscent of
flipbook animation. Then secondslater, gone.
As darkness advances, thehillslope weakens in definition
(03:55):
against the sky. A medievalchurch lies at the valley-hill
divide, overlooking the river’sfloodplain. The clean, dark
outline of its prominent towerand saddleback roof, sharply
contrasts with the gentlycurving ground. A driveway,
formal and flanked by shapelylime trees, leads to the
(04:17):
church’s porch entrance.
Presently lamp-lit, a miscellanyof moths flutter in the light
spill. A bird-like shadow racesacross the loose stone. Eyes are
at once drawn upwards and meetwith a fast-flying bat,
propelled on long, pointedwings. The most fleeting
impression, yet enough todiscern a noctule bat, making a
(04:39):
laser-straight pass across thewhite glow, before shrinking
into the almost black, as thechurch bells chime nine.
Unknown (05:13):
That was made with echoes by James Gilbert. A huge
thanks to James for creatingthat beautiful piece which
conjures up some really strongimagery, and describes the
fleeting glimpses and the actionof bats. Well, something that
can be hard to capture in words.
You can find lots more ofJames's work on his Twitter
account, there's a link in theshow notes. If you've got a
piece of writing or poetry thatyou'd like to share with us,
drop us an email to the addressin the show notes and you never
(05:35):
know it might be featured on afuture episode. Now, back in
August, I was invited to RHSWisley as part of their Hilltop
Live series, along with ShirleyThompson, who features in our
first ever episode of BatChatand Bat Conservation Trust
staff. We gave a talk to membersof the public who were visiting
that day in the new Hilltopbuilding, which is the RHS home
of gardening science. Whilst wewere there for the day, I
(05:59):
managed to speak to our nextguest who is Dr. Andrew
Salisbury, the principalentomologist for the RHS. And I
had no idea that the RHS eve hadentomologists. As you'll hear in
this interview, we're satoutside the Hilltop building in
the wildlife garden. So I askedAndrew to introduce himself and
tell us why the RHS have expertslike himself.
Andrew Salisbury (06:22):
Okay, I'm Andy Salisbury, principal
entomologist is the title I havethese days. I'm part of what's
known as the plant our team forthe RHS. And we're here to
provide exactly advice andresearch on garden insects and
other animal life really. Soit's not actually just
entomology. There are honoreeinsects that come in there as
(06:45):
well things the wood lice, andthe millipedes and centipedes,
and spiders are all part of ourwork as well. Occasionally, we
talk about deer, mammals bats,even on the odd occasion. And
we're providing advice on moreand more about encouraging
wildlife and the biodiversitythat gardens support. But we are
(07:05):
there also to provide advice andthings that people don't really
want to their gardens to so wedo talk about slugs and lily
beetles, and things like that aswell.
Unknown (07:14):
And like I said, I've never been here before. And it's
a really large site, I waswarned by your colleague Helen
when I came that you'll neverwalk around at all in a day. How
long has the site been here?
The RHS took on the site in1904. So the RHS has had RHS
Wisley for over 100 years. Butit was a garden before then it
(07:34):
was actually that's when it wasdonated to the society.
Okay, and we're now sat, wherewe're sat next to what is called
the Hilltop building, which isliterally brand new. And there
are members of the publicwalking around in what is your
quite literally brand newwildlife garden? How come it's
brand new and why is it any justbeen created?
(07:55):
Well, the RHS has always had ascience base, we did have what
is known as Liberty building,which was built throughout the
the First World War and that hasserved its purpose. The RHS has
a big science remit is it ispart of the RHS's purpose. And
we needed new facilities, youknow, 100 year old lab building.
(08:18):
It served his purpose and ourresearch over the past 10/20
years really has picked up. Weneed a new building. So hilltop
was built it houses the RHScollections, the herbarium, the
entomology collections, theinsect collection, it has brand
new labs where we can carry outresearch into not just those
things that affect garden plantsin a bad way, but also the
(08:41):
benefits of gardens forbiodiversity, wellbeing, and
even sort of climate changemitigation, that sort of thing.
So there's lots of researchgoing on there. And to surround
it, of course, to surround anynew building or HS we have to
have got so we're setting thewildlife garden at the moment
one of the new gardens but thereis also a well being garden and
(09:04):
a world food garden as well.
Steve Roe (09:06):
And the wildlife garden here is like say it's
just been created and there'sall sorts of different plants
and even though some of thestuffs only gone in the last
couple of months, there's loadsof stuff in flower here. How
much time have you spentplanning this particular garden?
How much how much time andplanning has gone into creating
this?
Unknown (09:24):
Oh, there were there were many years. I mean, it's
the garden is designed by a wellknown garden designer Ann Marie
Powell. And she took inspirationfrom art she has his own
research where we a few yearsago we did a big research
protocol plants for bugs, wherewe were looking at whether it's
really native plants that arebest for wildlife and gardens.
(09:46):
And it was filled design withsort of native plants, northern
hemisphere plants which areclosely related to native garden
plants and purely exoticsouthern hemisphere plants. And
we found that while yes, nativeswere slightly better but you In
the native Northern Hemisphere,plants also really good for for
invertebrates and otherwildlife, as were, the exotic
(10:07):
plants also have their value aswell. So it's just flowering
later or providing winter cover.
So gardens sort of built on thatknowledge. And so it's not
purely native plants are a fewnon native plants in here to
about Israel. But yeah, I mean,many years wanted planning in
this building,We're sat next to a shed with a
green roof on it. And there's aline of pine trees behind us.
(10:28):
For listeners at home just sortof describe the sort of
different habitats we've gotaround here then.
Andrew Salisbury (10:34):
Well, they're all sort of the the traditional
garden border and gardenhedgerows, they're also
important, there is a lot ofwater of very different types
from a small garden pond to avery large pond. Water being we
know is incredibly hot and oneof the best ways to quickly
introducing new habitat togarden. Literally within days of
(10:57):
filling the ponds or hoursactually, we had water boatman
and pond skaters coming in. Andon a sunny day, this summer,
we've only had about three orfour species of dragonfly and
damselfly come in. I've alreadyseen larva in the ponds. And the
ponds were only filled this timelast year. So it's less than a
year we've already got larvaein.
Steve Roe (11:16):
And I mean, there's a couple of really nice sculptures
and I can see there's a sort ofan insect house where there's
loads of bits of dead wood andpine cones in this little
wildlife pond next to us. We'vegot a log pile. So I guess
you've sort of had someinfluence in terms of bringing
the insects in.
Unknown (11:31):
We have I mean, it was the you know, the planting
itself is just one thing. Butyes, the log piles, the habitat
tower, as it's known. There'salso bird hide where people can
watch. And there's lots ofinformation we have areas of
long grass and areas of shortergrass. They recently just found
one of the areas of long grass.
So yeah, lots of differenthabitats here and long piles of
(11:53):
compost heaps. We're alsomonitoring the moths on site, we
have a Rothamsted insect, lighttrap on site. And there's
somewhere where people can,there's a bird hide as well.
Steve Roe (12:07):
And for people at home who are listening, if they
want to create space in theirgarden, to encourage wildlife,
what would you say that the oneor two things that you would do
if you wanted to encouragewildlife to your garden?
Unknown (12:19):
The first thing I have to say is it's not actually
about individual space gardensare great for wildlife. They are
already absolutely fantastic forwildlife. And the best piece of
advice there is, I always giveis put more plants in, let's say
more plants. But when you getinto specifics, flowering
plants, we have lists ofgeneralists on various website
(12:40):
but they aren't yes has itsplans for pollinators list. Our
own research said the moreflowers you get surprisingly,
the more pollinators you get.
The more plants you have, themore invertebrates you have.
Gets longer season. So plantsare flowering throughout the
year there are winter winterpollinators out there. If you've
got space trying to water be itfrom a water bath rock they
(13:01):
through to a large pond, theyall provide value. Log piles if
you can get them in. But yes, Isay overall, get some plants in
more plants, the better.
And I mean one of them apartfrom doing this podcast, I'd say
one of the reasons we're here isI'm here with the Bat
Conservation Trust and we'redoing a talk for members of the
public. We've put out a batdetector we've posted on a
(13:24):
static recording back detector,which we've put up in the bird
hides. And we've gone throughthose recordings. And I've only
spent 10 minutes going throughand we've already picked up five
bat species. How many differentspecies of insects have you got
here at Wisley?
It's very difficult. So we haveactually got records going back
of the insects on site, goingback to 1889. So that's you
(13:47):
know, that's that's good. 15years for the RHS took on the
garden we've had some oldrecords, but I mean it is it is
going to be in the 1000s ofspecies. The Garden as a whole,
you just need to look at some ofthe research that's gone out
there you can go back toJennifer Owens book on where she
studied her less the garden for30 years. And she recorded two
or 3000 species of invertebratesand the small, less the garden
(14:09):
we've got over 200 acres herewizzley So it's huge the number
of species we're going to havethe moth trap, the rotted insect
trap that we have recorded over600 species of larger moths
since it's been on site in theearly 70s. We have things like
behind us and wildlife gardenthere are some standing dead
pines and in one of those pinesis the only known site in
(14:32):
Britain for a long hornedbeetle. The house long Beetle so
it's not known to be breeding itanywhere else in Britain may
occur under the trees in thelocality but that is the only
known tree here in the wildlifegarden.
And do you think that's becausethis is the only site or is it
just because it's one of thoseGenus or groups of fauna out
(14:54):
there that are so understudied?
I think it's a bit of a mixture.
I think the the beetle I'mtalking about, it's quite a
large beetle, it is quitenoticeable. It has been recorded
in the area for a long time. Butnobody's really found its
breeding site. So the only onewe know it is continually
breeding is that tree. But Iknow there are other good
candidate trees in the area onthe local Commons as well. But
wisly also has some amazingcreatures. This is something
(15:19):
called the word cricket, whichis a rare insect in Britain.
It's basically you know, fromthe New Forest, some woodlands
and forests on the Isle ofWight. And here, it was leaked,
and the surrounding commons, howit got here, we don't really
know there are rumours about itcoming in with nursery stock at
some point nearly 100 years ago,but it just goes to show that
gardens can support someinteresting and wild creatures.
(15:47):
And you mentioned some of theextensive research that you guys
have done here. How does thatresearch compare to other
institutions like Kew forexample. What is it that you
guys do that's different tothem, for example?
Andrew Salisbury (15:58):
Well, the RHS is very much focused on
ornamental plants and gardening.
So it's very much focused on thegardening public and how green
spaces is private green spaces,or managed green spaces, in
parks, etc, can actually benefitus in the many ways that they do
so not just for thebiodiversity, but also safer for
(16:20):
wellbeing. For climate change,mitigation, pollution, control
these, these are benefits thatour gardens have. And we are
focused on the gardener.
Steve Roe (16:33):
And have you seen a change in trend over the years
of the general public? Do youfind that there is resistance to
encourage wildlife? Or is thatsomething that you've seen
change and people actually nowfar more likely to encourage? So
is it still a bit of a Marmitething? Westside people either
love it or they hate it?
Andrew Salisbury (16:51):
I mean, it was me. But there are still people
out there who who go in, if itmoves in their garden, if it's
down when they go, and theydon't want it to stay. And we
do, we do get a bit of that. Butto be honest, I'm really
pleased. So we, we have we areseeing a change out there. I
think we shouldn't change that.
It's difficult. actuallyquantify it. But I really do get
the feeling people begin torealise their gardens are great
(17:12):
for biodiversity. They are greatgreen spaces. The things that
come and nibble their plants arepart of that. We are seeing more
more and more of that I'm surewe are at the RHS, we're
encouraging that almost saywe're encouraging and just we
have research projects going onto slug showing that they're not
all bad. slugs or snails dodamage plants. And then some of
(17:35):
them do do eat plants. A lot ofthem just don't they actually
feed on decomposing organicmatter. So even at that level,
we're trying to convince peoplenow that accepting a bit of
damage to their plants is partof the biodiversity that gardens
can support.
Steve Roe (17:50):
And if listeners at home are thinking, Oh, this
sounds great. I want to come andvisit RHS Wisley when would you
say is the best time of year tocome? Or is there always
something to say?
Unknown (17:58):
I think almost contractually, there is always
something to say Oh, I simplyjust say to their harshest I
mean even or even on a terriblerainy day these days. Wisley
looks great. I've you know, Icome here I could come to wisly
at least three times a week.
Every day is different everytime it's lovely. Absolutely
chucking it down with rain and acold November day and the site
still looks great. Obviouslyit's more pleasant to walk
(18:21):
around and all of these lovelysunny day but any time of year
is good there are there aresculptures there's there's
winter greenery, and things inflower and winter. And to escape
the showers these days there isover displays inside the hilltop
as well which is anotheradvantage of this new building
there are actually displays andthings you've come inside and
(18:42):
see as well.
I was going to say going insidecertainly the ground floor where
where we're gonna be doing thetour later there's there's a
green wall, there's loads ofdisplays, jars full of all the
different types of seeds. Whatsort of talks and events do you
put on in that in that space?
There's all sorts of events.
There is something calledhilltop life that we're running
now. And there are talks everyday, twice a day. And there are
(19:05):
a range of subjects everythingfrom how to print an apple tree,
right the way through to I'vegiven talks on the best things
to do for I've given a talkcalled Invisible gardens havens
for wildlife just extolling thevirtues of how good gardens are
for wildlife. And then we'regetting guest speakers in as
well. So this week as part ofthe bat fest, we do have you
(19:28):
guys from the Bat Conservationcoming into to give a talk on
bats. So I'm really lookingforward to that. And so, there
there are constant round eventsevery day for people to see and
listen to as well.
Great stuff Dr Andrew SalisburyThank you very much. A big
thanks to Andrew for coming onthe show and to all the staff
(19:49):
involved in the Hilltop Liveseries. We had a brilliant time
down there. That's almost it forthis week. I hope you've enjoyed
it. If you take a look at theshow notes, you'll find all
sorts of links By guest's socialmedia pages, all sorts of
gardening advice from the RHSand our own advice on how to
garden for bats. As you'llhopefully now know, we're
running BatChat's first evercompetition during this series.
(20:10):
children's authors Emma Reynoldsand Angela Mills have kindly
donated copies of their booksabout bats. Angela has donated a
copy of Bobby the Brownlong-eared bat signed by both
Angela and Chris Packham, andEmma has donated a copy of her
newly released book Amara andthe bats. To enter the
competition to win one of thesebrilliant books. All you have to
do is write us a review aboutthis podcast Batchat and the two
(20:30):
winners will be picked at randomat the end of this series. Not
all podcast apps allow me toleave reviews, so you can find
instructions in the show notesof this episode. And please note
that we're only able to post theprizes to addresses in the
United Kingdom. Thank you ifyou're one of those who has left
us a review. We really do enjoyreading the commentary levers.
The series continues in twoweeks time so hit that follow
(20:52):
button so that you don't missit. Thanks for listening
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