January 8, 2024 • 59 mins
In the final episode of Season 2 of Batting 1,000, Dale Vermillion chats with Melissa Langdale, the new President of The Mortgage Collaborative (TMC). With over 20 years in the mortgage industry, Melissa brings a wealth of knowledge and experience. She discusses the key challenges faced by lenders in 2023 and the strategies they are employing to overcome them. Melissa also shares insights into what 2024 holds for the mortgage industry and highlights the importance of leveraging technology and building strong relationships.
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In This Episode
About The Mortgage Collaborative (starts at 3 mins)
Melissa shares about TMC's collaborative approach and the benefits it offers to its members.
Key challenges of 2023 (starts at 6 mins)
Dale and Melissa discuss the rising costs of origination, operational capacity, and growing market share.
Solutions for reducing origination costs (starts at 10 mins)
Dale and Melissa discuss strategies for reducing origination costs, improving operational efficiency, and leveraging technology.
Looking ahead to 2024 (starts at 24 mins)
Dale and Melissa discuss their predictions for the mortgage market in 2024 and the opportunities they anticipate.
The impact of mortgage technology and AI (starts at 32 mins)
Dale and Melissa explore the role of AI in the mortgage industry and its potential impact.
The centrality of servant leadership (starts at 42 mins)
Dale and Melissa discuss the key traits of great leaders and the significance of maintaining strong relationships in the industry.
Melissa’s 2024 outlook (starts at 50 mins)
Melissa's final thoughts on what lenders should focus on to thrive in the coming year.
Resources
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dale Vermillion (00:00):
All right.
Hello everybody.
And welcome back to anotheredition of batting a thousand.
Um, this is our lastedition for season two.
We've had some incredible guestsand today is no different.
As you know, we interviewed the heavyhitters in the mortgage industry.
Uh, and today I've gotan incredible guest.
Uh, Melissa Langdale is with us andMelissa is the president, the new
(00:21):
president, congratulations, by theway, Melissa, that's exciting news.
Uh, uh, the mortgage collaborativesometimes referred to as TMC.
If you don't know who themortgage collaborative.
because they've been aroundfor a long, long time.
I'll let her explain that to you,but just to give you a little bit
of credentials on Melissa, she'dbeen in the business over 20 years.
She has been in all kinds of differentcapacities and roles within the
(00:43):
mortgage arena from area managerto RVP, to being a, uh, basically
running the VP of operations for avery large lender in the country.
And she's got a lot of knowledge on.
What it takes to succeed in thismarketplace and the challenges
that lenders faced in 2023and the opportunities in 2024.
And that's exactly what we'regoing to talk about today.
(01:04):
So Melissa, welcome.
It is so good to have you.
Thank you
Melissa Langdale (01:08):
so much for having me.
I'm excited.
Dale Vermillion (01:10):
It's absolutely my honor to have you here.
And, um, let's begin, let's justbegin by talking a little bit
about the Mortgage Collaborative.
And.
Uh, you know, what you guys do, whatyou stand for and, uh, help people
understand a little bit about, uh,the cause that you guys have and what
you're doing to change the mortgageindustry on a, on a regular basis.
Melissa Langdale (01:29):
Yeah, I would love to talk about that.
I actually joined the MortgageCollaborative as a lender as I was
building out a mortgage company fora community bank in North Carolina.
Um, and what, what kind of blewme away and what really got me
hooked was, uh, I walked into myfirst conference and I showed up
for this thing called a collab lab.
And if y'all don't know what thisis, I'm going to tell you what it is.
(01:49):
It's really, really cool.
Everybody signs NDAs.
It's an executive kind of roundtable where you walk into the
room and you share everythingand anything about your business.
It really helps executives across thecountry be able to bounce ideas off of
others that have either, um, you know,tried new things or, uh, maybe, um, you
(02:10):
know, looking to, to reinvent eitherworkflow or, or kind of, um, looking
to optimize their balance sheet, youknow, a million things, everything
and anything about their business.
They, they share it with each otherto help each other to grow and.
That's one of the things that makesTMC so unique is that, um, we create
these experiences and, and these, uh,opportunities for executives across the
(02:31):
country to really get together and to helpeach other, uh, to grow their businesses.
And that's why we're called thecollaborative, even though we are a
mortgage cooperative, um, you know, we'revery intentional about saying that we're
a collaborative just for that reason.
It's.
It's our members, the informationthat they share, the, the network,
the relationships that theybuild, uh, that really makes us
Dale Vermillion (02:54):
unique.
That's awesome.
And we talked, uh, beforehand, I'vegot a couple of really dear friends and
longtime clients, Owen Lee, um, and AlisonJohnson, who both served on your board.
Incredible people.
They can't speak highlyenough about, uh, TMC.
And, uh, I love the,the, the Christmas setup.
You've got, you guys, uh, just wentthrough the, the 12 days of TMC.
(03:15):
Talk about that a little bit.
'cause you do that every year.
It's a really cool event.
Talk about that and howpeople can benefit from that.
Melissa Langdale (03:22):
Yep, I don't have my Christmas tree up in January when this is
going to be here, so I'm not quite thatcrazy just for everybody that's here.
We do basically three conferences a year.
We do two in person conferences, andthen we do one virtual conference,
which we call the 12 Days.
Um, we're also not crazy.
It's not 12 full daysof conference material.
(03:44):
It's just a few hours in the afternoon.
We, we have a keynote and thenwe have breakout sessions to
help people to collaborate.
In fact, this year we'redoing something really unique.
We're doing a, our, ourfirst ever solution sprint.
Um, and we're tacklingsome of the industries.
Biggest challenges, um, like for rightnow, um, you know, increasing day one
(04:05):
certainty and aim utilization withoutincreasing costs as most, you know,
kind of mortgage executives across thecountry, uh, are, are realizing right
now, the cost of credit reports acrossthe verification services, all those
things are just continuing to add up.
And so we're, we're tacklingthat, um, as a network and in
a very fun, competitive way.
(04:26):
Uh, we're going to talk about how to,how to open up inventory in the market.
that we serve.
And then the last one is aroundcreating operational efficient
efficiencies to be able to reallykeep our team at highest and best use.
And there's a ton of technology out therethat's, that's helping to facilitate that.
But so those are the things oursolutions front is, is tackling, but
(04:47):
we have, you know, this is a uniqueconference in the sense that we have
everybody from a loan officer and aprocessor on the call all the way to.
C-suite executives.
And so, uh, we really have a varietyof content to make sure that, that they
all kind of get something out of it.
And it's a fun way for, um, youknow, our, our entire network
(05:08):
and, and their employees to getinvolved, um, in, in something.
So it's, it's a lot of fun.
In fact, this is our biggest 12 days ever.
We have about 3,500 people registered Wow.
For lots and lots of fun.
Wow.
Fun excitement going on around it.
That is awesome.
This is not up in January.
Dale Vermillion (05:29):
Well, and I saw that you had, uh, your keynote was
my dear friend, Brittany Hodak.
Yes.
Well, I love Brittany.
She's awesome.
Melissa Langdale (05:36):
Gosh, she's just amazing.
I love her story.
Um, she's just, she's this.
Brilliant mix of, of, um, you know,customer experience, uh, you know,
uh, brilliance and, um, and thiskind of fun, uh, fun personality.
So she, she balances those twothings really well, which is.
(05:57):
Now,
Dale Vermillion (05:57):
if we could just get her to be a little more enthusiastic, we'd
probably be, you know, she has a fireplug.
I love, love, love,love chatting with her.
All right, well, let's,let's dive right in.
Um, you mentioned some really key thingsa moment ago where I want to kind of
focus and channel this conversation.
You know, we, we, we justare finishing up 2023.
(06:18):
Uh, it's been a very roughyear for the mortgage industry.
Uh, Uh, been a very rough year fora lot of lenders and originators.
Although I will tell you very honestly,you know, we, we work at mortgage
champions with 27 different lendersacross the country, and some of them
are having their best year in 2023.
They've ever had, uh, most of themare only about 30 percent off of
(06:38):
2021 numbers, which is kind of crazy.
Um, and, and, and that just proves thepoint that there's plenty of opportunity
when you do it right now, 2024 is coming.
Everything's trendingin the right direction.
Rates are headed down, the Fed's pullingback, inflation's improving, inventory's
getting better, house starts are way up.
So we're seeing, you know, more and moreand more new construction happening.
(07:00):
Uh, we're seeing more of a buyer'smarket versus a seller's market.
All of these things pointto a really great 2024.
And then I think a stellar 2025 and 2026.
So you are in the trenchestalking to lenders.
Every day about their challenges.
Let's begin by talking about what were thebiggest challenges that you saw in 2023?
(07:24):
Give me three of them.
And then what, what are those solutions?
What are the things that yourmembers are doing to overcome those?
Melissa Langdale (07:34):
That's a fantastic question.
Okay, three biggest challenges for 2023.
Um, I'll, I'll chunk it down to risingcost of origination, um, operational
capacity and kind of, you know, ensuringthat companies are kind of maintaining
that based on volume and that, youknow, Really is, um, based on, you
(07:57):
know, their profitability right there.
They're kind of, uh, adjusting,uh, capacity needs based on volume
and that affects their bottom line.
So, um, and then the last would be.
You know, growing growing market share.
There's, um, you know, there's a lot ofopportunities, I think, for for lenders.
You mentioned that you've got a ton of ofyour customers that are growing in this
(08:20):
marketplace, and there's just I thinkthere's a lot of opportunities for for
lenders that are innovating that are thatare looking at new ways of doing things,
both from, you know, an operationalworkflow technology perspective, but also
their sales model, how they're how they'rehelping their loan uh, at the same time.
So, uh, cost of origination, uh,working on their, their bottom line
(08:43):
and operational capacity as a result.
And then, um, you know, lookingat growing market share.
Dale Vermillion (08:49):
So let's begin with that first one.
Let's begin with the cost of originationand improving, uh, the way that you've
got your system set up, you know,uh, I've had a lot of conversations
with a lot of executives and highlevel people about this very topic.
When you really break it down, there'sreally, to me, there's only three ways
that you improve cost of origination.
One is cut costs.
(09:09):
That's your expense reductions.
Well, just abouteverybody's done that one.
Um, we've seen major layoffs, we'veseen a lot of cutback on things,
and sometimes people are cuttingthe wrong things and sometimes
they're cutting the right things.
I think the second is commissions.
You've got to reduce commissions.
That's a conversation I wantto have with you to hear what
you've heard from lenders.
I had Garth Graham on this year.
We talked a lot about this beginningof the year that, you know, based on
(09:31):
where projections of production hasbeen and is going, there has to be
a case in point that at some pointwe got to pull back on commissions
in order to create profitability.
Cause we're.
Last time I looked, it's over 11, 000 tooriginate a loan in the mortgage industry.
That is just not, you know, as theold saying goes, that dog don't hunt.
We got to make sure we understand that.
And then the last thing, and this is theone that we focus on the most with our,
(09:55):
our lenders is conversion is improvingthat conversion rate by improving sales
process, improving operational processes.
So let's walk throughthose for just a minute.
And let's begin with that firstpiece of a cost expenditures.
What are some of the great thingsthat you have seen lenders do to
create cost cutting that has reallyhelped their business to succeed?
(10:19):
That maybe is a little bit out of the box.
Melissa Langdale (10:22):
We've seen people rethink workflow altogether.
Um, right.
You know, that, that kind of traditionalLOA processor model, for example, um,
we've seen a lot of people looking atkind of, adjusting that to fit their,
their existing workflow as technologycontinues to evolve and, and systems,
um, continue to provide efficiencies.
um, there, there are things likethat, that, that lenders can do
(10:45):
to try to help, uh, create some,um, you know, some efficiency in
their, in their overall process.
In, you know, some of that even affects.
A better customer experienceby having kind of one point of
contact throughout the process.
Um, so there are things likethat, that, that, um, individuals
are looking at doing today.
You know, there's, you hit a lot ofreally important points of, you know,
(11:09):
there's, there's kind of workflow design.
Um, there's, you know, technologystack, there's LO compensation, all
those things go into, um, go into, youknow, the cost of origination, uh, over
the last several years, um, technologyhas, has not quite evolved as much as
(11:30):
customer expectations have evolved.
Right.
Especially in COVID, right.
We, You know, Amazon completely blewup and they were doing fantastic, but
now, you know, everybody's like, Ican just order something and have it
delivered to me in two hours on my phone.
You know, why in the world doesit still take 30 days to get
through the mortgage process?
And so we, a lot of our lenders arerethinking their overall process
(11:53):
to try to shorten that time.
You know, significantly, um, to justbetter meet customer expectations and
they're looking for technology to helpthem to do that, um, in, in an efficient
way, I will tell you that the challengesyou, you end up and I know you know, this,
a lot of your, your listeners know this.
(12:13):
You end up with your core kind of loanorigination system platform, and then
you're like, Oh, well, our customersneed this and we need, you know, we need
this extra thing on top of it to helpit to be a little bit more efficient.
And so you end up with kind of almostband aiding, um, you know, your,
your kind of core platform to meetcustomer expectations, to kind of help.
Um, you know, provide efficienciesin your, in your workflow too.
(12:36):
And so that, that definitelydrives up the cost of origination
to go back to our earlier point.
And so everybody's thinkingabout things like that.
How do we rethink workflow?
How do we rethink kindof customer experience?
Help give our loan officers tools andand how do we do it in an efficient way
from a technology stack perspective?
Dale Vermillion (12:55):
And so what does a lender need to do?
What is the process and what aresome of the best practices to
create a better structure than that?
You were a VP of operations, you knowthis inside and out You know, I've
said to every client I've ever workedwith as I consult C level executives
and mid level managers Look, yourbiggest cost within the operational
(13:17):
capacity is duplicative efforts.
Anytime you got duplication, you'repaying twice for the same thing.
And you gotta, you gotta get rid of that.
You got to understand whereyour duplication happens.
You've got to create more uniformityin your application system.
That's where things like onlineapplications are very, very beneficial
because they create a uniform process.
We don't have, as I always call it, thenapkin application that, you know, a
(13:39):
lot of retail loan officers are, are.
Guilty of, you know,here's a name and a number.
They want a loan.
Here you go.
And you mentioned something I thinkthat's really important earlier, and
that's the LOA processor relationship.
I can't tell you how many times I'vesat down with clients and I've said,
show me the job description for an LOAand show me the job description, your
(13:59):
processor, and I look at them and go.
It's the same job.
It's just a little differentthat they're taking a little
more application information.
Why don't you merge that into one positionand put a little bit more emphasis
on the originations team to get moredocumentation upfront so that there's less
of that they have to do on the backend.
So give me some thoughts onthat, because I know this is a
(14:20):
great area of expertise for you.
Melissa Langdale (14:22):
Yeah, well that whole processor, LOA,
you hit the nail on the head.
The, but the, the reason thatthey're separated in a lot of
cases is verifications, right?
They, they want kind of this, youknow, significant separation between
sales and operations and Right.
You know, it, our industry hashad a ton of fraud over the
years and this, you know, helpscompanies to kind of mitigate that.
(14:43):
But as our, as our, um, industrycontinues to evolve and technology
continues to evolve that wholedirect to data connection with,
you know, verification platformsreally reduces a lot of that risk.
And so it's important to rethink, okay,we, do we actually need these kind of
check the checker, um, layers in ourprocess that really slow down the process,
(15:05):
add extra costs from both it, you know.
Um, uh, an employee standpoint, youknow, you're, you're having to have all
this, this extra, you know, head countin order to just get a loan from ABC.
Um, and so, you know, it, it, it'sthose type of things that lenders
are, are rethinking and, and youhit the nail on the head that, that
particular role, that, that LOAprocessor has traditionally been the.
(15:31):
The easiest thing, I guess, forpeople to see that that is really
a check the checker, um, moment.
And so a lot of lenders are justrethinking what that looks like,
uh, in the future now that they'vegot kind of a lot of direct to
data connections with verificationplatforms, even though those are.
Those are, uh, very costly right now.
Dale Vermillion (15:50):
Yep, no question about it.
So, talk a little bit about, youmentioned earlier something really
important, and that is the wholeday one certainty and the costs
that are going up on credit reports,title reports, I mean, you name it.
It's everything is goingnorth instead of going south.
And you said you guys had, uh, you know, acollaborative of people that were talking
(16:14):
about that, of lenders and executives.
Tell, tell our audience.
You know, what, what came out of that?
What were some of the solutionsand ideas that came out of that?
Because that would be puregold to the listeners.
Melissa Langdale (16:26):
Yeah, I, we're still in the midst of it.
So it's a, um, we, uh, our, our, ourpresentations will be December 15th.
Um, and I know this, this is goingto air after that, but we'll have a
press release that goes through allof the solutions that were presented.
Um, and just to make sure thatthe, the industry is aware of.
(16:47):
of some things that people cando on a regular basis to help.
Um, that particularly is, is, I thinkhas been a challenge for our industry
and has a lot of, uh, potentialopportunities for improvements over time.
For, for example, today, Day One Certaintyand AIM both utilize this kind of direct
to data connection that in a lot ofcases requires the customer to log in to.
(17:11):
To some platform.
And so anytime this kind of layerof, um, you know, password, you know,
customers having to share their passwordwith their lenders in the process,
they automatically get this, you know,kind of pause of, okay, well, how
much of my data are you gathering?
How often are you going to pull it?
Like, do I need to changemy password after this?
(17:31):
Is this really safe forme to do in other words?
And so, you know, what's been, Ithink what's been holding back, you
know, uncertainty in AIM utilizationis, is really the, the customer being
comfortable and confident in sharingtheir, their data throughout the process.
So I think there's, there's going tobe continued opportunities for us to
find better systems for customers tobe more comfortable, uh, with sharing,
(17:53):
sharing their information or lendersgetting it directly, um, you know,
from sources without necessarilyneeding that, that customer layer.
And it could.
You know, reduce fraud for theindustry as a whole too, right?
If, if lenders are going direct todata, direct to IRS, direct to payroll,
direct to, you know, all of thosethings, you, you naturally reduce the
risk of a customer, um, leveraginggenerative AI to create a pay, uh, you
(18:18):
know, a pay stub or a W 2 or, you know,all of those sorts of things that,
that are in our space right now and,and lenders are having to deal with.
Dale Vermillion (18:25):
It's a little mind boggling, isn't it?
Melissa Langdale (18:27):
You know, those layers have been in our space for, for so.
So long and less generative AI, you know,can, can help, uh, with creation of some
of those things, but frankly whiteoutand, um, a typewriter could have helped
with those things back in the day too.
So those lenders willalways be in our industry.
Dale Vermillion (18:48):
So you, you talk to lenders all over the place and you've
seen the same thing that I've seen.
You've seen the lenders who aredoing very well in this market.
Okay.
And they're kind of like, well,I don't get what the problem is.
You see the lenders that arejust freaking out and they
really don't know where to go.
(19:08):
Okay.
Here's my question for you.
The ones on this hand, the onesthat are really doing well.
Okay, tell me what you're seeing in themthat is making them successful and from
any vantage point, from mindset, howthey think about the industry and the
business methodology, what they're doingto make differences, give us a little
(19:31):
bit of insight on what you're hearingfrom those top producing lenders are some
strategies and some things that they areimplementing that is making a difference.
Melissa Langdale (19:43):
Some of this probably won't be rocket science to
you, but we, um, you know, a lot ofour lenders that are growing right now
are doing it with really experiencedpurchase focused loan officers.
Right.
And, and we've talked about thatas an industry for years, but
that is the, that is the kind of.
Um, the foundation that thata lot of mortgage successful
(20:05):
mortgage companies live on it.
And that's where, you know, we'veseen our lenders continue to grow
is that they're, they're reallyfocused on hiring some of the best.
They have a fantastic recruiting program.
They have a fantastic marketing platform.
To be able to support those loan officersand they have reasonable expectations
from a compensation perspective.
(20:26):
Most of the loan officers that areout there today recognize that they,
there's a balance of being competitivein the marketplace with kind of,
you know, compensation models.
Um, At lenders and they wantthe lender to be reasonable.
I, I don't think anybody's, youknow, coming out of the gate these
days and saying, Hey, I want tomake 200 pips on a, on a loan and
(20:48):
be priced out of the marketplace.
Right.
So, you know, I think most everybodyright now, as long as compensation is
reasonable, um, in the marketplace.
They're going to be fine, butthey're really looking for tools.
They're looking fortools to be successful.
They're looking for a fantasticoperation team behind them that they,
they can call on at any given momentto give answers, give updates, move the
(21:12):
process through really, really quickly.
Um, so again, I don't thinkany of that's rocket science.
Those are things that, you know,top producing retail and officers
across the country have been doingfor years and years and years.
Dale Vermillion (21:24):
Well, and you're right, it's not rocket science, but
you said a couple of very importantthings there that I want to unpack now.
So, you started by saying, veryexperienced, purchase loan officers, okay?
And the thing that I pick up in that,and I talk about this all the time, in
fact, I just did a speaking engagement,um, both at AIM, uh, FUSE, and, uh,
(21:46):
the month of November and then didsomething again at the Lenny Tree Summit.
And I talked about this onboth places, specialization.
It's so important today.
You know, the, the companiesthat I see that do well, they
don't have a loan officer thathandles purchase, refi, HELOC.
All of it, you know, it's the jackof all trades, master of none.
Um, and that's not whatreferral partners want.
(22:08):
They want experts.
They want specialists.
So the fact that, that companies that aredoing well have purchased specialists,
they also have refi specialists thatare experienced in that product.
They're not crossing over.
They're, they're focusingon doing it right.
How much is that playing arole in them being successful?
You think?
Melissa Langdale (22:28):
I mean, I think you hit the nail on the head.
I mean, obviously, everybody in themarketplace today is looking at is looking
at purchase business with the kind ofrare exception of maybe a cash out refi,
um, or, you know, an equity line, likeyou mentioned, but the majority of the
market, obviously, today is purchase.
And so, you know, Referral partners,realtors, um, you know, in some
(22:49):
cases, financial planners, divorceattorneys, those sort of things are
all looking for individuals thatcan help them to ensure that their
customers are well taken care of.
And it really does take somebodythat's in that space all the time
to understand all the layers thatgoes into the purchase cycle.
Um, you know, all the, the layersthat the realtor has to deal with
(23:10):
all the layers that, you know, ifthey're going through a divorce, for
example, that they have to deal with.
And it takes somebody tounderstand that whole process.
Um, you got to be in itevery day to understand it.
So I totally agree with you that the,the, you know, focusing in on, on one
particular area can be really, reallyhelpful and is really driving a lot of.
(23:31):
Uh, you know, top producing loan officersacross the country to continue to be
Dale Vermillion (23:35):
successful, right?
And I think it's important we definewhat experience is because, you know,
if, if a lot of times when we thinkabout the experience, for example,
purchase specialist, a lot of thosepeople are close to retirement.
Now, if you look at the average ageof mortgage originators, particularly
in the distributed retail market,it's close to 60 years old now.
That many of them are and they'vemade a lot of money in years.
(23:57):
They don't necessarily have to work.
So you got to find thepeople that are still hungry.
So got that fire in the belly, you know,no matter what their age is, they've got
a, they've got a runway ahead of themstill that they're going after, because if
you're getting them in the twilight of acareer, they might not, even though they
may have been very successful in the past.
It doesn't mean they're going tobe very successful in the future.
You need somebody in this market.
(24:17):
Who's very driven because it's a marketwhere, you know, the realtor's business
is much slower than it used to be.
You have to have a much biggernetwork than ever before.
The, these are all essentialsto, to this process.
So when we talk experience, experiencemight only be five to 10 years.
It's five to 10 years of highproduction where they've done
(24:38):
it again and again and again.
And they're proven entity.
And I think you said the most importantthing there, because I get this question
a lot from leaders about recruiting.
Okay.
When you're recruiting,who are you looking for?
We have, you know, Ihear a lot from leaders.
Well, you know, I get guys who want bigsigning bonuses or I get gals who want
to come in and you know, they, they, theywant this high basis point percentage.
(24:59):
I don't see that verymuch in my conversations.
What I hear a lot is, I want the tools.
I want the technology.
I want the marketing support.
Uh, I want the education.
I want a great opsdepartment that backs me up.
These are the thingsthat seem to matter more.
Would you agree with that statement?
Melissa Langdale (25:16):
100 percent agree.
And I, I want to go back to one thingthat you said to you, you mentioned all of
the, All of the things that loan officershave to do today to be successful.
Um, you know, in this cycle, particularlynot unlike, although it is a little
different, um, not unlike 2008, 2009,loan officers are having to do more in
order to get the same amount of business.
(25:37):
And, and I have seen, youknow, that, um, kind of.
Either younger generation or, um, kindof, you mentioned like five to 10 years
of, of experience, those that have enoughexperience that they're knowledgeable,
they're driven, they're willing topivot and do, you know, try new things.
(25:58):
And they're the, the hustlers, you know,in this case, you know, for, for lack of
a better word, those are, it may not evenbe that they're working 90 hours a week.
Right.
They're, they're just.
They're leveraging technologyto do more with less.
They're, they're, um, creatinggreat marketing platforms.
They're, um, in systems.
(26:18):
They're creating teams behind themthat can keep that, that kind of
wheel churning so that they'reconstantly at highest and best use.
And so, um, the companies that figureout how to support those loan officers.
It's going to be a lot offun to watch them grow.
Dale Vermillion (26:34):
Yeah, it will.
So let me ask you a question.
Then let's talk about a differentperspective on personnel.
Um, you know, I started in the business,I've been 40 years doing this gig.
I started in 1983 years, I managedall the way up to running a national
mortgage company with 900 loanofficers and 2, 300 employees.
So had a little experience before Igot into training consulting on Dealing
(26:55):
with salespeople and operations people.
And interestingly enough, my philosophyof hiring was the same for all 12 years.
If you had one day mortgageexperience, I wouldn't hire you.
I only hired people off the street.
I only hired people that were gogetters, hustlers, that wanted
to learn, that wanted to grow.
And in those days you coulddo that very effectively.
(27:16):
Okay, now fast forward 2023 2024.
Okay, I hear from a lot of clients,you know what, I don't think that's
the way you can hire anymore.
And I, I always push back on thatand go, I don't think you can
hire a hundred percent like that.
That would be a challenge.
However, if you have a core of experiencedleaders that are in your Originations
(27:39):
team, and you can bring in people whoare hungry with today's technology
that helps aid a lot of what they do.
Uh, with today's opportunity to networkso much easier than you used to.
And with their understanding of thingslike social media and how to communicate
in different ways, video, video is ahuge way to communicate today for today's
(28:00):
marketplace, because that's what peopleare used to with all of the, you know,
the reels that everybody watches and ticktocks, the biggest thing on the planet.
So do you hear or muchfrom your lenders about.
Bringing in new people and trainingthem from the ground up because at some
point you're going to have to do that.
You can't always hire experiencedbecause then you're just
(28:21):
cannibalizing your own business.
Talk to me a little bit aboutthat mindset and that thought.
Melissa Langdale (28:26):
You know, that, that's always, it's always a struggle.
Um, you know, there, there is.
There is a space for those, thosehungry individuals to definitely
partner with top producers.
And I have seen some ofour lenders doing it.
In fact, we've had a lot of requests.
We have a platform called TMCU, um,which is our, um, TMCU university.
(28:47):
And that, you know, we're, we'rebuilding out kind of a mortgage
essentials products within that.
because we, we keep hearing, um, fromour lenders that they really would
love to be able to take advantage ofthat opportunity to bring in new to the
industry folks for a lot of reasons.
Um, you know, our, our, the speed ofinnovation and in our space today is
really, really fast and having individualsthat can come in with a different
(29:11):
perspective and have different, you know,insights on, you know, like you said, how
to, how to leverage social media, how to.
Um, you know, uh, do video and do reelsand, um, you know, shift kind of the
marketing strategy is really importantand really valuable to organizations.
But there has to be kind of a, away for them to have a baseline
(29:33):
knowledge build in the process.
And so partnering them with, you know,with folks, like you said, that are,
that are experienced leaders that can seethe opportunity to grow as a, you know,
as they bring in this next generation.
Could be really, really impactfulfor organization and for that
leader that's bringing them on.
Dale Vermillion (29:52):
That's good.
Building a partnering mentoring kindof philosophy, having, uh, utilizing
resources like you guys have, and wehave, where you're training, we're
training loan officers every dayfrom the ground up how to do this.
And, and I'll tell you somethingthat will kind of shock you.
Uh, um, and you know, I'veworked with over 700 lenders
in the 27 years I've done this.
And we're usually working withabout 30 in any given year.
(30:13):
And, um, this year in 2023, The topthree clients that I have that have
made the most money, produce the mostbusiness and have the highest units
and dollars per loan officer are allrefinance only, believe it or not.
And they are all three consumer direct.
And they all three have gone bythe philosophy of we're bringing
(30:36):
people in off the street.
We're not hiring experienced people andwe're training them from the ground up.
So there is a case forthat that says it can work.
Um, if you really have specialists whoare well trained, but each of them also
has a mentoring program, just like you'retalking about, where they have experienced
people that have done it, that they can.
put them side by side.
They can coach and mentor them.
(30:57):
Uh, you know, and what they find isthat those mentors actually do more
production, not less because they'rekind of showing off in front of the
rookie is what it comes down to.
So there is a case for that.
And I think You know, the, the servicesyou guys provide, uh, and hopefully
we provide are very valuable in doingthat because that's where I think the
market's going to go in the future andcertainly consumer direct, it's easier
(31:20):
to bring in people off the street thanour distributed retail, because you're
talking about long relationships thathave been forged with partners, referral
partners, that's a little different game.
Although I will tell you, youknow, I love to share the story.
There's, there's a lady that I traineda year and a half ago at a large
bank, fresh, fresh off the street,never been in the mortgage business.
And.
(31:40):
I trained her on just open houses.
I said, just go do open housesand, and, and you'll be successful.
Lo and behold, in, uh, the, Ithink it was August or September of
this year, it was her 11th month.
And she had 4.
6 million in production in her 11th month.
And I said, how'd you do it?
She said, I go to six open housesevery Saturday and that fuels the
(32:03):
fire for the entire rest of the week.
So there is business out thereif you go after it and do it.
All right, let's talk about,um, let's talk about technology
a little bit more for a minute.
Um, AI is coming.
We know that.
What do you think?
It's here.
Yeah, I should say that, butit's coming more and more and
more to the mortgage industry.
What do you think theimpact is going to be?
(32:23):
And what do you see as thepluses and minuses of AI?
Melissa Langdale (32:27):
Gosh, that's, there's a lot in that.
So, you know, obviously AI is here.
There, there's a lot for lendersto think about both from how
do I, how do I leverage itappropriately, um, in my organization?
How do I understand really therisk that our organization has?
Um, and then, you know, how do we.
How do we continue to innovate atthe speed that consumers want and
(32:50):
leverage that to be able to do that?
And it's, but, but also notjust build a front end engine.
Um, that's really, really fast.
How do I leverage it to producequality loans and to sell them faster?
Um, and so, you know, there's,there's ways to, to use AI
for all of those things.
You know, I, I see it today as, um,there's, there's processes that mortgage
(33:13):
has built, for example, underwriters,um, you know, you bring in a brand
new underwriter, what do you do?
Uh, you, you put them through a QCprocess, of course, you don't tell
them they can underwrite, you know,FHA loans with no guidance, um, there's
things like that, that, that lendersare really starting to think through,
how do I leverage AI in a way that.
(33:34):
Um, that keeps my team at highest and bestuse, but also allows me to keep a pulse
on, on, um, what's working and what mightnot be working from an AI perspective.
Not a lot of lenders are considering kindof decisioning, um, through, through AI.
They're, they're mostly considering howdo I create kind of operational efficiency
(33:56):
scenario desks, for example, for their,their underwriters or their loan officers.
Um, there are some technology providersthat, that are in our network that
are looking at ways to either create,um, transparency in the process with
consumers as they're going through amortgage, um, with, with kind of task
creation and, um, document review,uh, faster and, and things like that,
(34:22):
that, um, Um, you know, it's fantastic.
They're improving customerexperience, but they're not really
relying on it for decisioning.
They have kind of human and loopprocesses or QC processes where
they're kind of testing the systems.
I think the probably our regulators,our GSEs, um, are a little nervous
(34:42):
about AI because there are somany things that it is capable of.
Especially as it learns moreand more and more over time.
And really, you know, there's, thereprobably will be eventually expectations
of lenders that they're going to be kindof held accountable for the decisions
that they're allowing systems to, uh, tohave, but we'll, we'll see where it goes.
(35:06):
Um, you know, they're,they're held accountable today
to underwriter decisions.
Right.
Um, and so, uh, youknow, I, I think there's.
There's going to be a lot that's evolving.
It is evolving really,really, really fast.
That we're, we spend a lot of timetalking about it with our lenders.
In fact, I created a, um, a groupthat is an innovation focused
(35:26):
working group, uh, that spendsa lot of time talking about AI.
It's called SparkLab.
Um, and, uh, you know, just.
Helping everybody to understand thedifference between kind of basic
business roles that you build in your,your system that, that creates kind of
a little bit of operational efficiencyto, you know, AI and then generative AI
that really needs kind of large languagemodels that you're using for, for some
(35:50):
level of maybe income calculationsor, you know, but it's not like full
decisioning, but it, but it has theability of, of digesting information and
providing significant data to the process.
Dale Vermillion (36:03):
Okay, good.
It's interesting because I'vegot a very good friend of mine.
I've known for 25 years.
He has been the head of, uh, some verylarge lenders, technology departments.
He is just a whiz when itcomes to all the technology.
And we had a conversation about AI and Ilearned something from him that I never
knew that there's different about him.
Places, I guess you can get AI fromand what their company does, he's, he's
(36:27):
now running, running his own company.
What they do is they go in and they'lltake questions and they'll put them
in and they'll match the four and.
A lot of them are incorrect,not even close to correct.
And then one is closer and then one'sthe actual number that you'll get.
And, and they're constantlyscreening through to get the right
and best answer all the time.
So, you know, there's a lot ofefficiencies that we gained by AI, but
(36:47):
lenders will have to be really careful.
Cause I know this was the numberone conversation that I heard at the
Lenny Tree summit when I was speakingat that, you know, that, that's it.
That was a tech.
a tech conference forall intents and purposes.
And AI was the rage of the conversation.
And some people were really excitedand some people were scared to death.
And, you know, it was sucha wide scope that I saw.
Yep.
It's
Melissa Langdale (37:07):
you hit the nail on the head.
It really is, um, data in, like,you've got to have a big enough
language model and a really goodsystem for helping AI to learn.
Yep.
Um, and, and I thinkthat's where the, the.
You know, evolution needs to continueto go in the mortgage space is that
we have to be able to ensure thatthese platforms are learning the
(37:27):
right way for a lot of reasons.
You don't want, um, you know, a partof the process to unintentionally
discourage a customer to, to notmove forward because, um, you know,
they don't have the full picture orthey're making the wrong decision or,
you know, whatever the case, there's.
there's like fair lendingimplications in some of this too.
And so, um, yes, you, you have to be ableto understand the data that's going in.
(37:50):
You have to have a good test process, um,you know, to ensure that it's learning
the way that you, you want it to learn.
So
Dale Vermillion (37:57):
2024 for a minute.
Um, uh, what do you see fromthe mortgage collaborative?
What, what do you see and kindof, you know, what is your, um,
What is your outlook for 2024?
Give us the good, the bad and the ugly.
Melissa Langdale (38:13):
Well, if we all had a crystal ball.
Dale Vermillion (38:17):
Good point.
That's a good start.
Melissa Langdale (38:20):
You know, I'll just preface that, right?
Hopes and dreams and wishesand unicorns and rainbows.
I think that, um, you know, Look,our, our industry has been challenged
over the last couple of years.
I think challenges, um, are, areactually kind of cool because they
allow for, um, lenders and, and ourindustry to kind of rethink things.
(38:42):
And, um, you know, I, I think they'vespent a lot of time rethinking things
and those that have really built agood, solid foundation of, of, you
know, innovation as well as support,um, are, are going to be really.
Poised in 2024 is that marketstarts to shift and I think that
(39:03):
it will, um, you know, that, thatthey're going to be able to take
some market share when that happens.
Um, so it'll be, it'll be interesting.
I mean, you know, look at the endof the day, there's a significant
portion of the, um, of homeownersacross the country that have interest
rates that, uh, even if rates go downto, you know, 6 percent won't be.
(39:28):
percent won't be refinanceable.
Um, and so, you know, I, I don'tthink we're going to see a giant
surge of refinance opportunities.
I could be wrong.
Um, I, I, you know, hope for ourindustry that I am, but I think
there's going to be a really solidpurchase market in the coming year.
I think you're going to see inventory,you know, open up some of these,
um, Um, Some of the builders that,that you've mentioned have kind
(39:50):
of increased starts are going tostart to hit the market in 2024.
And so this, I think all ofthose things coming together is
going to make for a good year.
Dale Vermillion (39:59):
Yeah.
I mean, in the month of December or monthof November, the statistics on new home
starts was annualized million new homes.
That's a lot of new inventory.
When you consider where we're.
Our numbers are at right now,so that should lag into 2024.
We've still got some supply chainissues and other things that we're
dealing with, but you know, overall,I think that's going to be good.
(40:20):
And look from a refinance perspective,if we do get down in the low
sixes, high fives, I mean, we've,we've made a fair amount of loans.
I mean, 325, 000 approximateloans will close in 2023.
Um, and an average probably of 7.
25 percent coupon.
If you average them all out, youget down to six there, there's some
(40:41):
opportunities, especially when youinclude in the fact that the average
credit cardage straight is up to 27.
8 percent right now.
That's the average.
That's not, that's crazy.
That's, that means we got 35percent credit cards out there,
you know, home equity lines are13, 14 percent a lot of times.
So when you start looking at all thoseblended rates and putting all that debt
(41:01):
together and consumer debt is by far thehighest it's ever been in us history.
While at the same time, equity is thehighest has ever been in us history.
So there's opportunities there, Ithink for 2024, but, uh, I'm with you.
I think that, I think we're going tosee much better trending, Uh, from what
we saw this year, we, we had some majorthings that happened this year that
we thought we were going to see that.
(41:22):
And then we had the debt ceiling problem.
And then we had the downgrade fromFitch, you know, just, it seemed
like one thing after anotherhit 2024 is an election year.
That's always a good thing.
Good things happen in election years,generally for the mortgage industry.
Melissa Langdale: Historically, you're right. (41:35):
undefined
There, there is generally a loweringof interest rates in an election year.
So we can all, we can all
Dale Vermillion (41:42):
look forward to that.
Let's hope that really happens becausewe don't, yeah, I don't want to hear any
more reports in 2024 of hawkish comments.
I'm so tired of thatphrase, hawkish comments.
I've seen that so many times.
All right.
So give us, um, to kind of wrapthis up, uh, from your perspective.
(42:03):
Two or three things that you thinkare critical for lenders to really be
doing in the coming year and really befocusing on to improve their businesses.
Um, uh, straight, straight from, fromyour book, from your playbook, this
is some Melissa wisdom for everybodyto, to have no pressure at all.
(42:24):
We, we know, we know you, we knowyou've got the experience and the,
and the wisdom to share with that.
So give lenders an idea of what youthink should be happening in 2024.
Melissa Langdale (42:34):
You know, I, I think, um, the, with the market looking to shift,
um, you know, in the coming year, I thinkit's going to be really, really important
for leaders to understand what theirteams really need in order to navigate
something like that, um, especially whenstaffing levels have been low and have
had to be, you know, lowered over thelast, you know, couple of years, right?
(42:57):
Um, it's going to be important for the,You know, leaders to step up and realize
that their teams are going to needdifferent things in a growing market.
Uh, it's also going to be importantto, to not, um, to, to manage kind
of expectations as the market, uh,shifts and, and try to leverage
technology as much as they can to.
scale businesses, um, with, withoutnecessarily having the swings of, of
(43:21):
headcount, um, that our, our industryhas seen over the years and needed to
have seen, uh, to keep loans moving.
Um, so leverage technology,be fantastic leaders.
Um, and you know, I think continueto build relationships in the markets
that they serve at the end of theday, you and I know we've been in
this industry long enough that.
(43:41):
you know, success happens withrelationships and local markets
that you serve, put you in front ofthe right customers that are really
ready, willing, and able to buy.
Um, and so, yeah, build relationships,be great leaders and, uh, try to scale
as much as possible with technology.
Dale Vermillion (43:58):
Okay.
So let me ask you two finalquestions then on that.
Let's talk about being a great leader.
Define that.
For me, but from, from your perspective,you meet leaders all the time.
You see the great ones.
What are the characteristics thatyou see in them that somebody can
say, man, I need more of that.
Melissa Langdale (44:13):
Yeah.
Gosh, that's such a good question.
Uh, everybody defines leadershipa little bit different.
I, um, am a, a servant leader kindof mentality at the end of the day is
about kind of bringing vision, being thecompass for your, your team that they
need, kind of showing them the directionthe company has to go and helping them
(44:33):
and guiding them along the way to, tokeep moving in the right direction.
And I think as long as you're Youknow, you're, you're one step ahead of
where your, your company wants to go.
And you've got thisreally fantastic vision.
You're a great communicator along it.
And you, you are understanding andcaring of the people around you.
Um, I don't know that thatto me is a great leader.
Dale Vermillion (44:55):
I love what you just said there.
That was pure gold.
When you said be a compassfor your organization.
I think, I think the mortgagecollaborator should get a t shirt.
That says that I think that's agreat, great, because it's, that's
a great visual right there is yougot to be the North star as a leader
and couldn't agree with you more.
If you're not a servant leader, you'renot a leader in my book, period.
(45:17):
Because if you're not serving your people,then they think you're in it for yourself.
And the moment they think that they'renot going to follow you anywhere.
And I loved how you talked about thepower of the importance of communication
to have a vision communicated effectivelyand make sure you're keeping that
really positive mindset going forward.
Because the thing that I see themost common in the best leaders
(45:40):
is you just can't get them down.
I mean, it doesn't matterwhat the market does.
They understand, you know, what it's,it's what I call the pivoting concept.
Okay.
So that's a problem.
Nothing we can do to change it.
Let's solve it.
Let's now take that problem.
Let's turn it into something good.
Let's work through thisand not look backwards.
They're always lookingout the front window.
(46:01):
They're not looking inthe rear view mirror.
Melissa Langdale (46:02):
That's right.
And I, I think you just hit the nail onthe head that kind of perfecting the art
of the pivot, um, can, can absolutely helpleaders, you know, be that compass, right?
Um, maybe the, the direction needsto, to move a little bit, but you
Uh, just recognizing the fact that,you know, the same things you did
yesterday and changing work won'tbe the things that are necessary
(46:25):
needed for your team in the future.
And so,
Dale Vermillion (46:28):
uh, I love it.
It's good.
And then let's talk, the lastthing is about relationship.
You talked about that too.
And, you know, this is somethingthat, that I talk about.
All the time, you know, I, I've been apartner with ICE, uh, mortgage technology
and that whole group for a long time.
And I've spoke at theirconferences year after year.
I'm speaking again, uh, this year in 2024.
(46:49):
Um, and what I've really focused thosespeeches around is high tech, high
touch, you know, technology's critical.
You, you gotta have it.
You've got to be up to date on it.
You got to use it for efficiencies,but what you can't use it for.
is building relationship and loyalty.
You need people to do that.
You need conversations with yourcustomers, conversations with
(47:11):
your partners that are value basedconversations where you really build
deep relationships, really understandtheir needs, understand their
goals, understand their challenges,and then solve those things.
Give me a little bit more of your thoughtprocess on the power and importance of
relationship in today's marketplace.
Because a lot of people think, Oh no, Justbuild a great technology and go to town.
(47:34):
But we've seen a lot of fintechcompanies fail miserably where their
whole mindset was all tech for theconsumer, no personal relationship.
And what I'm seeing is my top clients,it's all personal relationship.
Melissa Langdale (47:48):
You know, I think there's a balance of it.
I'll kind of play devil'sadvocate a little bit.
Yeah, I do.
I think there's a balance and youhit the nail on the head, but what
you were talking about at yourICE conference is the balance of
kind of high touch and high tech.
Um, there, there, there are placesfor technology to allow customers
to have transparency in the process.
(48:08):
To be able to self serve as theyhave the knowledge and skill
set and ability to self serve.
And, um, and also have a hightouch person that's coming along
beside them and helping them to getthrough one of the biggest financial
decisions that they're having tomake in their lifetime, especially if
(48:29):
they're doing it for the first time.
Right.
And so there is that,that balance, I think of.
Allowing them to self serve where theycan and being that resource, um, to
help them to think broader beyond.
I just need an interest rate.
You know, um, you know, I had oneof my, my loan officers, you know,
years and years and years ago, andhe would have, you know, this is like
(48:53):
an age old question where customerscall and they say, Hey, what, what,
you know, what's your interest rate,what's your 30 year fixed rate today?
And he would always answer itwith, well, What rate do you need?
I, I have all of the rates and itwas such a brilliant way to just.
Just, just flip the conversation andsay, what's really important to you.
(49:16):
And I think as long as loan officersare taking that approach and being
really, um, consultative to customersas well as their real estate partners
and referral partners, the keyis, is you gotta have both sides.
You can be fantastic on the customerside, but if you're not building
relationships with your realtors, yourbuilders, your financial planners,
your divorce attorneys, those, Thosepeople that are continually, um, you
(49:39):
know, providing you with referrals.
You're, you're going to miss the boat.
Cause somebody else is going to do it.
That's right.
Dale Vermillion (49:45):
That's right.
Yeah.
And just, just to clarify, in case Ididn't make that clear, I am a huge fan of
technology and, and you have to have both.
You're absolutely right.
Couldn't agree with it more.
But, but as I look at today'smarketplace, it feels to me like
you could survive better with.
lesser tech and higher relationshipthan you would with higher
(50:05):
tech and lesser relationship.
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
And, and, and you said somethingearlier that was important.
You said, you know, you got to knowthose customers that want to self serve.
And, and what I see in the industrya lot, and, you know, this year
alone, I probably listened over.
400 sales calls with my clients.
Because part of what Ido, I'll train their loan.
We'll train their loan officers.
(50:26):
We'll train their leaders.
We train their ops team.
We work with the entire companyto build a uniform selling system,
operation system, and leadership system.
It's all built around that servant leadermindset and serving your customers.
Well, but then what we'll do iswe'll do shopper calls on the
backend to make sure they're doingthe things that we want them to do.
And we've listened to call aftercall, after call, after call,
where the borrower was sent a link.
(50:49):
But the borrower actuallynever asked for the link.
They didn't really want to be self serve.
What the loan originator said was, well,I could take an application or I can
send you this link, which is much easier.
And the borrower was like, well, okay.
And then I look at studies that tellme again and again, and again, about 30
percent want to do the link and about 70percent want to talk to a human being.
(51:11):
And I think that's where we're missingthe boat in the industry a lot.
Melissa Langdale (51:14):
Yep.
I a hundred percent agree.
In, in fact, I, I.
Um, there's, there's a lot of waysthat loan officers can do that.
And I think you hit the nail on the headthat, but they got to ask the question.
Uh, they got to ask, like,what, what's important to you?
Yes.
Uh, what's important for you to, for,for us to have a 15 minute conversation
and walk through this, or are youstrapped for time and you can do this
(51:36):
on your own and we'll, we'll sync afteryou fill out all your information.
But I also think there's another layerwhere we really can leverage technology.
To help our customers to know that weactually know them, you know, the, the,
um, at the end of the day, like there,there's a lot of industries that, um, that
keep customers for a really long time.
Mortgage has not been quite as successful.
(52:01):
And for a lot of reasons, reallyit's, you know, there's a giant
period of time between their lastpurchase and the one that they're
doing, you know, the next time.
But, but I do think there is anopportunity for, uh, for For lenders
to continue to think about how do I,how do I keep a lifetime customer?
Um, and there's, there's ways to leveragetechnology to pre populate applications
(52:23):
for them so that all they have to do iskind of go in and, and, you know, just
check and make sure that the informationhas not changed since the last time
that, that you did a loan for them.
Making that process, there's, there'sbarriers of going through the application
process as easy as possible, whetherthey're doing it online or you're, you're
doing it on the phone, um, breaking downthose can, can make a big difference.
Dale Vermillion (52:47):
Well, that's a great way to end the, the, the interview
because that was gold right there.
You're absolutely right.
I mean, the reason weas an industry have not.
done a great job at retaining ourcustomers because we don't stay in
contact after the sale, after theclose, I, this is, this is probably
one of the things that I harp onthe most with loan officers is look,
you're not going after one transaction.
(53:08):
You're going after a lifetimerelationship if you're doing it right.
And all of those experienced loanofficers we talked about earlier that
have had, you know, incredible careers.
That's what they did.
Um, you know, I just recently, uh,for our clients, we do a monthly
video every month on sales, right?
Bring a market update.
And then we talk about things thatwe think are important in the market.
And I did an interview with a, arealtor who did over 500 sales in 2022.
(53:35):
Uh, that's a big time realtor and heactually worked with one of the loan
officers that I trained and he said, youknow, interesting fact, that loan officer
has stayed in touch when we've workedtogether for 10 years now and we sat down
a couple of months ago and we looked at aloan that we closed and we went down the
family tree and it turned out that thatloan was the 51st loan originated from
(53:57):
the first person that this loan officerhad gotten a loan from with that realtor.
Um, 51 loans because she stayed in touchmonth after month, year after year.
She said, I'm going to beyour loan officer for life.
And she meant it.
And you know, today loan officersthink they're too busy for that,
but technology can prompt them andguide them so that look, here it is.
(54:17):
It's right in front of you.
Just make a phone call.
No matter what you say,Hey, how you doing?
How's things going?
That's good enough.
Just keep it in touch.
We'll make a big differencein that longevity.
Melissa Langdale (54:27):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I love, yeah, the phone call,just, just, hi, how you doing?
How's your family?
How are your kids?
What's, you know, are the samethings that are important to you?
You know, when we first talkedimportant to you today, um, yeah, all
of those things make a huge difference.
Yeah.
How'd
Dale Vermillion (54:43):
the home improvements go?
Did you put the addition on?
Simple question.
You'll talk for 30 minuteswith them about that.
And next thing you know, you'resaying, you know what, I'm thinking
about, I need more money to do this.
And here we go.
You're right back into it again.
Awesome.
All right.
So let's, let's close out with,um, how do people reach out
to the Mortgage Collaborative?
Tell us a little bit about,uh, membership, what that
entails and provides.
(55:04):
I'm a, I'm a huge fan of what you guys do.
I certainly, anybody that's watchingthis, if you're not part of TMC, I
recommend you become part of TMC.
Talk to our audience about how they cando that and what do they get when they're
part of the Mortgage Collaborative.
Wow.
Thank
Melissa Langdale (55:19):
you so much for that.
Um, by the way, they can always reach out.
They can, they can, uh, we have,we have links on our website,
the mortgage collaborative.
com, um, that they can,they can reach out on.
They can always email me directly too.
And, and, um, I'll provide your,my LinkedIn profile and they
can reach out that way too.
So lots of different waysto get in touch with us.
Um, membership is really simple forour, our lenders across the country.
(55:42):
Um, you have one membership for yourentire organization, um, have access
to, you know, two in person conferences,one virtual, like we talked about, but a
plethora of events throughout the year.
And I say plethora, um, and itprobably doesn't even do it justice.
Every single week, we have four to fiveevents that we put on for our members.
(56:08):
Every week we have working groups, lablabs, we have TMC connect sessions.
We do, you know, the rundown, um, with RobChristman every Friday and last weekend
mortgage day, so you can keep in touch on,on, you know, the top news, um, Articles
that are happening throughout the week.
Like there's, there's a plethoraof information that we provide
to our members on a daily basis.
(56:29):
Um, and then, you know, those inperson conferences and the virtual
conference where we put peopleinto groups and help them to.
To help each other to grow, uh,is, is really pretty special.
Um, and you know, outside of that, we, weactually have started just, just recently,
um, an advocacy committee where we'rebuilding really strong relationships
(56:51):
with agencies and regulators.
So that as you know, guidelinechange as, as policy changes, that
we can be a voice for our lenders.
Uh, as those sort of things happenand we can put them at the table with
the decision makers that are, thatare changing policy, that are changing
guidelines and help them to understandregulators and agencies to understand,
(57:13):
um, what that means actually to consumers.
Cause a lot of our lenders, they're.
boots on the ground withcustomers every single day.
Um, and it's really important forour regulators and agencies to, to
have a good sense of what, what theirpolicy changes mean for new customers.
Um, so all those things are in membership.
I could talk about it forever.
I know you want to wrap things up.
(57:34):
Uh, so just reach out, uh,on LinkedIn, our website.
We would love to chat with anybody.
Awesome.
Dale Vermillion (57:40):
Well, Melissa, you've been a delight.
Thank you so much for, for beingon batting a thousand, uh, great,
great, um, advice and wisdom.
We really appreciate that.
I want to wish you a very MerryChristmas and a Happy New Year.
Uh, and, uh, look forward to, uh, toworking with you again, hopefully in 2024.
Melissa Langdale (57:57):
That sounds fantastic.
Thank you so much for having me.
This was a pleasure and an
Dale Vermillion (58:00):
honor.
You're welcome.
God bless.
And we'll see you soon.
All right.
Hello everybody.
And welcome back to anotheredition of batting a thousand.
Um, this is our lastedition for season two.
We've had some incredible guestsand today is no different.
As you know, we interviewed the heavyhitters in the mortgage industry.
Uh, and today I've gotan incredible guest.
Uh, Melissa Langdale is with us andMelissa is the president, the new
(00:21):
president, congratulations, by theway, Melissa, that's exciting news.
Uh, uh, the mortgage collaborativesometimes referred to as TMC.
If you don't know who themortgage collaborative.
because they've been aroundfor a long, long time.
I'll let her explain that to you,but just to give you a little bit
of credentials on Melissa, she'dbeen in the business over 20 years.
She has been in all kinds of differentcapacities and roles within the
(00:43):
mortgage arena from area managerto RVP, to being a, uh, basically
running the VP of operations for avery large lender in the country.
And she's got a lot of knowledge on.
What it takes to succeed in thismarketplace and the challenges
that lenders faced in 2023and the opportunities in 2024.
And that's exactly what we'regoing to talk about today.
(01:04):
So Melissa, welcome.
It is so good to have you.
Thank you
Melissa Langdale (01:08):
so much for having me.
I'm excited.
Dale Vermillion (01:10):
It's absolutely my honor to have you here.
And, um, let's begin, let's justbegin by talking a little bit
about the Mortgage Collaborative.
And.
Uh, you know, what you guys do, whatyou stand for and, uh, help people
understand a little bit about, uh,the cause that you guys have and what
you're doing to change the mortgageindustry on a, on a regular basis.
Melissa Langdale (01:29):
Yeah, I would love to talk about that.
I actually joined the MortgageCollaborative as a lender as I was
building out a mortgage company fora community bank in North Carolina.
Um, and what, what kind of blewme away and what really got me
hooked was, uh, I walked into myfirst conference and I showed up
for this thing called a collab lab.
And if y'all don't know what thisis, I'm going to tell you what it is.
(01:49):
It's really, really cool.
Everybody signs NDAs.
It's an executive kind of roundtable where you walk into the
room and you share everythingand anything about your business.
It really helps executives across thecountry be able to bounce ideas off of
others that have either, um, you know,tried new things or, uh, maybe, um, you
(02:10):
know, looking to, to reinvent eitherworkflow or, or kind of, um, looking
to optimize their balance sheet, youknow, a million things, everything
and anything about their business.
They, they share it with each otherto help each other to grow and.
That's one of the things that makesTMC so unique is that, um, we create
these experiences and, and these, uh,opportunities for executives across the
(02:31):
country to really get together and to helpeach other, uh, to grow their businesses.
And that's why we're called thecollaborative, even though we are a
mortgage cooperative, um, you know, we'revery intentional about saying that we're
a collaborative just for that reason.
It's.
It's our members, the informationthat they share, the, the network,
the relationships that theybuild, uh, that really makes us
Dale Vermillion (02:54):
unique.
That's awesome.
And we talked, uh, beforehand, I'vegot a couple of really dear friends and
longtime clients, Owen Lee, um, and AlisonJohnson, who both served on your board.
Incredible people.
They can't speak highlyenough about, uh, TMC.
And, uh, I love the,the, the Christmas setup.
You've got, you guys, uh, just wentthrough the, the 12 days of TMC.
(03:15):
Talk about that a little bit.
'cause you do that every year.
It's a really cool event.
Talk about that and howpeople can benefit from that.
Melissa Langdale (03:22):
Yep, I don't have my Christmas tree up in January when this is
going to be here, so I'm not quite thatcrazy just for everybody that's here.
We do basically three conferences a year.
We do two in person conferences, andthen we do one virtual conference,
which we call the 12 Days.
Um, we're also not crazy.
It's not 12 full daysof conference material.
(03:44):
It's just a few hours in the afternoon.
We, we have a keynote and thenwe have breakout sessions to
help people to collaborate.
In fact, this year we'redoing something really unique.
We're doing a, our, ourfirst ever solution sprint.
Um, and we're tacklingsome of the industries.
Biggest challenges, um, like for rightnow, um, you know, increasing day one
(04:05):
certainty and aim utilization withoutincreasing costs as most, you know,
kind of mortgage executives across thecountry, uh, are, are realizing right
now, the cost of credit reports acrossthe verification services, all those
things are just continuing to add up.
And so we're, we're tacklingthat, um, as a network and in
a very fun, competitive way.
(04:26):
Uh, we're going to talk about how to,how to open up inventory in the market.
that we serve.
And then the last one is aroundcreating operational efficient
efficiencies to be able to reallykeep our team at highest and best use.
And there's a ton of technology out therethat's, that's helping to facilitate that.
But so those are the things oursolutions front is, is tackling, but
(04:47):
we have, you know, this is a uniqueconference in the sense that we have
everybody from a loan officer and aprocessor on the call all the way to.
C-suite executives.
And so, uh, we really have a varietyof content to make sure that, that they
all kind of get something out of it.
And it's a fun way for, um, youknow, our, our entire network
(05:08):
and, and their employees to getinvolved, um, in, in something.
So it's, it's a lot of fun.
In fact, this is our biggest 12 days ever.
We have about 3,500 people registered Wow.
For lots and lots of fun.
Wow.
Fun excitement going on around it.
That is awesome.
This is not up in January.
Dale Vermillion (05:29):
Well, and I saw that you had, uh, your keynote was
my dear friend, Brittany Hodak.
Yes.
Well, I love Brittany.
She's awesome.
Melissa Langdale (05:36):
Gosh, she's just amazing.
I love her story.
Um, she's just, she's this.
Brilliant mix of, of, um, you know,customer experience, uh, you know,
uh, brilliance and, um, and thiskind of fun, uh, fun personality.
So she, she balances those twothings really well, which is.
(05:57):
Now,
Dale Vermillion (05:57):
if we could just get her to be a little more enthusiastic, we'd
probably be, you know, she has a fireplug.
I love, love, love,love chatting with her.
All right, well, let's,let's dive right in.
Um, you mentioned some really key thingsa moment ago where I want to kind of
focus and channel this conversation.
You know, we, we, we justare finishing up 2023.
(06:18):
Uh, it's been a very roughyear for the mortgage industry.
Uh, Uh, been a very rough year fora lot of lenders and originators.
Although I will tell you very honestly,you know, we, we work at mortgage
champions with 27 different lendersacross the country, and some of them
are having their best year in 2023.
They've ever had, uh, most of themare only about 30 percent off of
(06:38):
2021 numbers, which is kind of crazy.
Um, and, and, and that just proves thepoint that there's plenty of opportunity
when you do it right now, 2024 is coming.
Everything's trendingin the right direction.
Rates are headed down, the Fed's pullingback, inflation's improving, inventory's
getting better, house starts are way up.
So we're seeing, you know, more and moreand more new construction happening.
(07:00):
Uh, we're seeing more of a buyer'smarket versus a seller's market.
All of these things pointto a really great 2024.
And then I think a stellar 2025 and 2026.
So you are in the trenchestalking to lenders.
Every day about their challenges.
Let's begin by talking about what were thebiggest challenges that you saw in 2023?
(07:24):
Give me three of them.
And then what, what are those solutions?
What are the things that yourmembers are doing to overcome those?
Melissa Langdale (07:34):
That's a fantastic question.
Okay, three biggest challenges for 2023.
Um, I'll, I'll chunk it down to risingcost of origination, um, operational
capacity and kind of, you know, ensuringthat companies are kind of maintaining
that based on volume and that, youknow, Really is, um, based on, you
(07:57):
know, their profitability right there.
They're kind of, uh, adjusting,uh, capacity needs based on volume
and that affects their bottom line.
So, um, and then the last would be.
You know, growing growing market share.
There's, um, you know, there's a lot ofopportunities, I think, for for lenders.
You mentioned that you've got a ton of ofyour customers that are growing in this
(08:20):
marketplace, and there's just I thinkthere's a lot of opportunities for for
lenders that are innovating that are thatare looking at new ways of doing things,
both from, you know, an operationalworkflow technology perspective, but also
their sales model, how they're how they'rehelping their loan uh, at the same time.
So, uh, cost of origination, uh,working on their, their bottom line
(08:43):
and operational capacity as a result.
And then, um, you know, lookingat growing market share.
Dale Vermillion (08:49):
So let's begin with that first one.
Let's begin with the cost of originationand improving, uh, the way that you've
got your system set up, you know,uh, I've had a lot of conversations
with a lot of executives and highlevel people about this very topic.
When you really break it down, there'sreally, to me, there's only three ways
that you improve cost of origination.
One is cut costs.
(09:09):
That's your expense reductions.
Well, just abouteverybody's done that one.
Um, we've seen major layoffs, we'veseen a lot of cutback on things,
and sometimes people are cuttingthe wrong things and sometimes
they're cutting the right things.
I think the second is commissions.
You've got to reduce commissions.
That's a conversation I wantto have with you to hear what
you've heard from lenders.
I had Garth Graham on this year.
We talked a lot about this beginningof the year that, you know, based on
(09:31):
where projections of production hasbeen and is going, there has to be
a case in point that at some pointwe got to pull back on commissions
in order to create profitability.
Cause we're.
Last time I looked, it's over 11, 000 tooriginate a loan in the mortgage industry.
That is just not, you know, as theold saying goes, that dog don't hunt.
We got to make sure we understand that.
And then the last thing, and this is theone that we focus on the most with our,
(09:55):
our lenders is conversion is improvingthat conversion rate by improving sales
process, improving operational processes.
So let's walk throughthose for just a minute.
And let's begin with that firstpiece of a cost expenditures.
What are some of the great thingsthat you have seen lenders do to
create cost cutting that has reallyhelped their business to succeed?
(10:19):
That maybe is a little bit out of the box.
Melissa Langdale (10:22):
We've seen people rethink workflow altogether.
Um, right.
You know, that, that kind of traditionalLOA processor model, for example, um,
we've seen a lot of people looking atkind of, adjusting that to fit their,
their existing workflow as technologycontinues to evolve and, and systems,
um, continue to provide efficiencies.
um, there, there are things likethat, that, that lenders can do
(10:45):
to try to help, uh, create some,um, you know, some efficiency in
their, in their overall process.
In, you know, some of that even affects.
A better customer experienceby having kind of one point of
contact throughout the process.
Um, so there are things likethat, that, that, um, individuals
are looking at doing today.
You know, there's, you hit a lot ofreally important points of, you know,
(11:09):
there's, there's kind of workflow design.
Um, there's, you know, technologystack, there's LO compensation, all
those things go into, um, go into, youknow, the cost of origination, uh, over
the last several years, um, technologyhas, has not quite evolved as much as
(11:30):
customer expectations have evolved.
Right.
Especially in COVID, right.
We, You know, Amazon completely blewup and they were doing fantastic, but
now, you know, everybody's like, Ican just order something and have it
delivered to me in two hours on my phone.
You know, why in the world doesit still take 30 days to get
through the mortgage process?
And so we, a lot of our lenders arerethinking their overall process
(11:53):
to try to shorten that time.
You know, significantly, um, to justbetter meet customer expectations and
they're looking for technology to helpthem to do that, um, in, in an efficient
way, I will tell you that the challengesyou, you end up and I know you know, this,
a lot of your, your listeners know this.
(12:13):
You end up with your core kind of loanorigination system platform, and then
you're like, Oh, well, our customersneed this and we need, you know, we need
this extra thing on top of it to helpit to be a little bit more efficient.
And so you end up with kind of almostband aiding, um, you know, your,
your kind of core platform to meetcustomer expectations, to kind of help.
Um, you know, provide efficienciesin your, in your workflow too.
(12:36):
And so that, that definitelydrives up the cost of origination
to go back to our earlier point.
And so everybody's thinkingabout things like that.
How do we rethink workflow?
How do we rethink kindof customer experience?
Help give our loan officers tools andand how do we do it in an efficient way
from a technology stack perspective?
Dale Vermillion (12:55):
And so what does a lender need to do?
What is the process and what aresome of the best practices to
create a better structure than that?
You were a VP of operations, you knowthis inside and out You know, I've
said to every client I've ever workedwith as I consult C level executives
and mid level managers Look, yourbiggest cost within the operational
(13:17):
capacity is duplicative efforts.
Anytime you got duplication, you'repaying twice for the same thing.
And you gotta, you gotta get rid of that.
You got to understand whereyour duplication happens.
You've got to create more uniformityin your application system.
That's where things like onlineapplications are very, very beneficial
because they create a uniform process.
We don't have, as I always call it, thenapkin application that, you know, a
(13:39):
lot of retail loan officers are, are.
Guilty of, you know,here's a name and a number.
They want a loan.
Here you go.
And you mentioned something I thinkthat's really important earlier, and
that's the LOA processor relationship.
I can't tell you how many times I'vesat down with clients and I've said,
show me the job description for an LOAand show me the job description, your
(13:59):
processor, and I look at them and go.
It's the same job.
It's just a little differentthat they're taking a little
more application information.
Why don't you merge that into one positionand put a little bit more emphasis
on the originations team to get moredocumentation upfront so that there's less
of that they have to do on the backend.
So give me some thoughts onthat, because I know this is a
(14:20):
great area of expertise for you.
Melissa Langdale (14:22):
Yeah, well that whole processor, LOA,
you hit the nail on the head.
The, but the, the reason thatthey're separated in a lot of
cases is verifications, right?
They, they want kind of this, youknow, significant separation between
sales and operations and Right.
You know, it, our industry hashad a ton of fraud over the
years and this, you know, helpscompanies to kind of mitigate that.
(14:43):
But as our, as our, um, industrycontinues to evolve and technology
continues to evolve that wholedirect to data connection with,
you know, verification platformsreally reduces a lot of that risk.
And so it's important to rethink, okay,we, do we actually need these kind of
check the checker, um, layers in ourprocess that really slow down the process,
(15:05):
add extra costs from both it, you know.
Um, uh, an employee standpoint, youknow, you're, you're having to have all
this, this extra, you know, head countin order to just get a loan from ABC.
Um, and so, you know, it, it, it'sthose type of things that lenders
are, are rethinking and, and youhit the nail on the head that, that
particular role, that, that LOAprocessor has traditionally been the.
(15:31):
The easiest thing, I guess, forpeople to see that that is really
a check the checker, um, moment.
And so a lot of lenders are justrethinking what that looks like,
uh, in the future now that they'vegot kind of a lot of direct to
data connections with verificationplatforms, even though those are.
Those are, uh, very costly right now.
Dale Vermillion (15:50):
Yep, no question about it.
So, talk a little bit about, youmentioned earlier something really
important, and that is the wholeday one certainty and the costs
that are going up on credit reports,title reports, I mean, you name it.
It's everything is goingnorth instead of going south.
And you said you guys had, uh, you know, acollaborative of people that were talking
(16:14):
about that, of lenders and executives.
Tell, tell our audience.
You know, what, what came out of that?
What were some of the solutionsand ideas that came out of that?
Because that would be puregold to the listeners.
Melissa Langdale (16:26):
Yeah, I, we're still in the midst of it.
So it's a, um, we, uh, our, our, ourpresentations will be December 15th.
Um, and I know this, this is goingto air after that, but we'll have a
press release that goes through allof the solutions that were presented.
Um, and just to make sure thatthe, the industry is aware of.
(16:47):
of some things that people cando on a regular basis to help.
Um, that particularly is, is, I thinkhas been a challenge for our industry
and has a lot of, uh, potentialopportunities for improvements over time.
For, for example, today, Day One Certaintyand AIM both utilize this kind of direct
to data connection that in a lot ofcases requires the customer to log in to.
(17:11):
To some platform.
And so anytime this kind of layerof, um, you know, password, you know,
customers having to share their passwordwith their lenders in the process,
they automatically get this, you know,kind of pause of, okay, well, how
much of my data are you gathering?
How often are you going to pull it?
Like, do I need to changemy password after this?
(17:31):
Is this really safe forme to do in other words?
And so, you know, what's been, Ithink what's been holding back, you
know, uncertainty in AIM utilizationis, is really the, the customer being
comfortable and confident in sharingtheir, their data throughout the process.
So I think there's, there's going tobe continued opportunities for us to
find better systems for customers tobe more comfortable, uh, with sharing,
(17:53):
sharing their information or lendersgetting it directly, um, you know,
from sources without necessarilyneeding that, that customer layer.
And it could.
You know, reduce fraud for theindustry as a whole too, right?
If, if lenders are going direct todata, direct to IRS, direct to payroll,
direct to, you know, all of thosethings, you, you naturally reduce the
risk of a customer, um, leveraginggenerative AI to create a pay, uh, you
(18:18):
know, a pay stub or a W 2 or, you know,all of those sorts of things that,
that are in our space right now and,and lenders are having to deal with.
Dale Vermillion (18:25):
It's a little mind boggling, isn't it?
Melissa Langdale (18:27):
You know, those layers have been in our space for, for so.
So long and less generative AI, you know,can, can help, uh, with creation of some
of those things, but frankly whiteoutand, um, a typewriter could have helped
with those things back in the day too.
So those lenders willalways be in our industry.
Dale Vermillion (18:48):
So you, you talk to lenders all over the place and you've
seen the same thing that I've seen.
You've seen the lenders who aredoing very well in this market.
Okay.
And they're kind of like, well,I don't get what the problem is.
You see the lenders that arejust freaking out and they
really don't know where to go.
(19:08):
Okay.
Here's my question for you.
The ones on this hand, the onesthat are really doing well.
Okay, tell me what you're seeing in themthat is making them successful and from
any vantage point, from mindset, howthey think about the industry and the
business methodology, what they're doingto make differences, give us a little
(19:31):
bit of insight on what you're hearingfrom those top producing lenders are some
strategies and some things that they areimplementing that is making a difference.
Melissa Langdale (19:43):
Some of this probably won't be rocket science to
you, but we, um, you know, a lot ofour lenders that are growing right now
are doing it with really experiencedpurchase focused loan officers.
Right.
And, and we've talked about thatas an industry for years, but
that is the, that is the kind of.
Um, the foundation that thata lot of mortgage successful
(20:05):
mortgage companies live on it.
And that's where, you know, we'veseen our lenders continue to grow
is that they're, they're reallyfocused on hiring some of the best.
They have a fantastic recruiting program.
They have a fantastic marketing platform.
To be able to support those loan officersand they have reasonable expectations
from a compensation perspective.
(20:26):
Most of the loan officers that areout there today recognize that they,
there's a balance of being competitivein the marketplace with kind of,
you know, compensation models.
Um, At lenders and they wantthe lender to be reasonable.
I, I don't think anybody's, youknow, coming out of the gate these
days and saying, Hey, I want tomake 200 pips on a, on a loan and
(20:48):
be priced out of the marketplace.
Right.
So, you know, I think most everybodyright now, as long as compensation is
reasonable, um, in the marketplace.
They're going to be fine, butthey're really looking for tools.
They're looking fortools to be successful.
They're looking for a fantasticoperation team behind them that they,
they can call on at any given momentto give answers, give updates, move the
(21:12):
process through really, really quickly.
Um, so again, I don't thinkany of that's rocket science.
Those are things that, you know,top producing retail and officers
across the country have been doingfor years and years and years.
Dale Vermillion (21:24):
Well, and you're right, it's not rocket science, but
you said a couple of very importantthings there that I want to unpack now.
So, you started by saying, veryexperienced, purchase loan officers, okay?
And the thing that I pick up in that,and I talk about this all the time, in
fact, I just did a speaking engagement,um, both at AIM, uh, FUSE, and, uh,
(21:46):
the month of November and then didsomething again at the Lenny Tree Summit.
And I talked about this onboth places, specialization.
It's so important today.
You know, the, the companiesthat I see that do well, they
don't have a loan officer thathandles purchase, refi, HELOC.
All of it, you know, it's the jackof all trades, master of none.
Um, and that's not whatreferral partners want.
(22:08):
They want experts.
They want specialists.
So the fact that, that companies that aredoing well have purchased specialists,
they also have refi specialists thatare experienced in that product.
They're not crossing over.
They're, they're focusingon doing it right.
How much is that playing arole in them being successful?
You think?
Melissa Langdale (22:28):
I mean, I think you hit the nail on the head.
I mean, obviously, everybody in themarketplace today is looking at is looking
at purchase business with the kind ofrare exception of maybe a cash out refi,
um, or, you know, an equity line, likeyou mentioned, but the majority of the
market, obviously, today is purchase.
And so, you know, Referral partners,realtors, um, you know, in some
(22:49):
cases, financial planners, divorceattorneys, those sort of things are
all looking for individuals thatcan help them to ensure that their
customers are well taken care of.
And it really does take somebodythat's in that space all the time
to understand all the layers thatgoes into the purchase cycle.
Um, you know, all the, the layersthat the realtor has to deal with
(23:10):
all the layers that, you know, ifthey're going through a divorce, for
example, that they have to deal with.
And it takes somebody tounderstand that whole process.
Um, you got to be in itevery day to understand it.
So I totally agree with you that the,the, you know, focusing in on, on one
particular area can be really, reallyhelpful and is really driving a lot of.
(23:31):
Uh, you know, top producing loan officersacross the country to continue to be
Dale Vermillion (23:35):
successful, right?
And I think it's important we definewhat experience is because, you know,
if, if a lot of times when we thinkabout the experience, for example,
purchase specialist, a lot of thosepeople are close to retirement.
Now, if you look at the average ageof mortgage originators, particularly
in the distributed retail market,it's close to 60 years old now.
That many of them are and they'vemade a lot of money in years.
(23:57):
They don't necessarily have to work.
So you got to find thepeople that are still hungry.
So got that fire in the belly, you know,no matter what their age is, they've got
a, they've got a runway ahead of themstill that they're going after, because if
you're getting them in the twilight of acareer, they might not, even though they
may have been very successful in the past.
It doesn't mean they're going tobe very successful in the future.
You need somebody in this market.
(24:17):
Who's very driven because it's a marketwhere, you know, the realtor's business
is much slower than it used to be.
You have to have a much biggernetwork than ever before.
The, these are all essentialsto, to this process.
So when we talk experience, experiencemight only be five to 10 years.
It's five to 10 years of highproduction where they've done
(24:38):
it again and again and again.
And they're proven entity.
And I think you said the most importantthing there, because I get this question
a lot from leaders about recruiting.
Okay.
When you're recruiting,who are you looking for?
We have, you know, Ihear a lot from leaders.
Well, you know, I get guys who want bigsigning bonuses or I get gals who want
to come in and you know, they, they, theywant this high basis point percentage.
(24:59):
I don't see that verymuch in my conversations.
What I hear a lot is, I want the tools.
I want the technology.
I want the marketing support.
Uh, I want the education.
I want a great opsdepartment that backs me up.
These are the thingsthat seem to matter more.
Would you agree with that statement?
Melissa Langdale (25:16):
100 percent agree.
And I, I want to go back to one thingthat you said to you, you mentioned all of
the, All of the things that loan officershave to do today to be successful.
Um, you know, in this cycle, particularlynot unlike, although it is a little
different, um, not unlike 2008, 2009,loan officers are having to do more in
order to get the same amount of business.
(25:37):
And, and I have seen, youknow, that, um, kind of.
Either younger generation or, um, kindof, you mentioned like five to 10 years
of, of experience, those that have enoughexperience that they're knowledgeable,
they're driven, they're willing topivot and do, you know, try new things.
(25:58):
And they're the, the hustlers, you know,in this case, you know, for, for lack of
a better word, those are, it may not evenbe that they're working 90 hours a week.
Right.
They're, they're just.
They're leveraging technologyto do more with less.
They're, they're, um, creatinggreat marketing platforms.
They're, um, in systems.
(26:18):
They're creating teams behind themthat can keep that, that kind of
wheel churning so that they'reconstantly at highest and best use.
And so, um, the companies that figureout how to support those loan officers.
It's going to be a lot offun to watch them grow.
Dale Vermillion (26:34):
Yeah, it will.
So let me ask you a question.
Then let's talk about a differentperspective on personnel.
Um, you know, I started in the business,I've been 40 years doing this gig.
I started in 1983 years, I managedall the way up to running a national
mortgage company with 900 loanofficers and 2, 300 employees.
So had a little experience before Igot into training consulting on Dealing
(26:55):
with salespeople and operations people.
And interestingly enough, my philosophyof hiring was the same for all 12 years.
If you had one day mortgageexperience, I wouldn't hire you.
I only hired people off the street.
I only hired people that were gogetters, hustlers, that wanted
to learn, that wanted to grow.
And in those days you coulddo that very effectively.
(27:16):
Okay, now fast forward 2023 2024.
Okay, I hear from a lot of clients,you know what, I don't think that's
the way you can hire anymore.
And I, I always push back on thatand go, I don't think you can
hire a hundred percent like that.
That would be a challenge.
However, if you have a core of experiencedleaders that are in your Originations
(27:39):
team, and you can bring in people whoare hungry with today's technology
that helps aid a lot of what they do.
Uh, with today's opportunity to networkso much easier than you used to.
And with their understanding of thingslike social media and how to communicate
in different ways, video, video is ahuge way to communicate today for today's
(28:00):
marketplace, because that's what peopleare used to with all of the, you know,
the reels that everybody watches and ticktocks, the biggest thing on the planet.
So do you hear or muchfrom your lenders about.
Bringing in new people and trainingthem from the ground up because at some
point you're going to have to do that.
You can't always hire experiencedbecause then you're just
(28:21):
cannibalizing your own business.
Talk to me a little bit aboutthat mindset and that thought.
Melissa Langdale (28:26):
You know, that, that's always, it's always a struggle.
Um, you know, there, there is.
There is a space for those, thosehungry individuals to definitely
partner with top producers.
And I have seen some ofour lenders doing it.
In fact, we've had a lot of requests.
We have a platform called TMCU, um,which is our, um, TMCU university.
(28:47):
And that, you know, we're, we'rebuilding out kind of a mortgage
essentials products within that.
because we, we keep hearing, um, fromour lenders that they really would
love to be able to take advantage ofthat opportunity to bring in new to the
industry folks for a lot of reasons.
Um, you know, our, our, the speed ofinnovation and in our space today is
really, really fast and having individualsthat can come in with a different
(29:11):
perspective and have different, you know,insights on, you know, like you said, how
to, how to leverage social media, how to.
Um, you know, uh, do video and do reelsand, um, you know, shift kind of the
marketing strategy is really importantand really valuable to organizations.
But there has to be kind of a, away for them to have a baseline
(29:33):
knowledge build in the process.
And so partnering them with, you know,with folks, like you said, that are,
that are experienced leaders that can seethe opportunity to grow as a, you know,
as they bring in this next generation.
Could be really, really impactfulfor organization and for that
leader that's bringing them on.
Dale Vermillion (29:52):
That's good.
Building a partnering mentoring kindof philosophy, having, uh, utilizing
resources like you guys have, and wehave, where you're training, we're
training loan officers every dayfrom the ground up how to do this.
And, and I'll tell you somethingthat will kind of shock you.
Uh, um, and you know, I'veworked with over 700 lenders
in the 27 years I've done this.
And we're usually working withabout 30 in any given year.
(30:13):
And, um, this year in 2023, The topthree clients that I have that have
made the most money, produce the mostbusiness and have the highest units
and dollars per loan officer are allrefinance only, believe it or not.
And they are all three consumer direct.
And they all three have gone bythe philosophy of we're bringing
(30:36):
people in off the street.
We're not hiring experienced people andwe're training them from the ground up.
So there is a case forthat that says it can work.
Um, if you really have specialists whoare well trained, but each of them also
has a mentoring program, just like you'retalking about, where they have experienced
people that have done it, that they can.
put them side by side.
They can coach and mentor them.
(30:57):
Uh, you know, and what they find isthat those mentors actually do more
production, not less because they'rekind of showing off in front of the
rookie is what it comes down to.
So there is a case for that.
And I think You know, the, the servicesyou guys provide, uh, and hopefully
we provide are very valuable in doingthat because that's where I think the
market's going to go in the future andcertainly consumer direct, it's easier
(31:20):
to bring in people off the street thanour distributed retail, because you're
talking about long relationships thathave been forged with partners, referral
partners, that's a little different game.
Although I will tell you, youknow, I love to share the story.
There's, there's a lady that I traineda year and a half ago at a large
bank, fresh, fresh off the street,never been in the mortgage business.
And.
(31:40):
I trained her on just open houses.
I said, just go do open housesand, and, and you'll be successful.
Lo and behold, in, uh, the, Ithink it was August or September of
this year, it was her 11th month.
And she had 4.
6 million in production in her 11th month.
And I said, how'd you do it?
She said, I go to six open housesevery Saturday and that fuels the
(32:03):
fire for the entire rest of the week.
So there is business out thereif you go after it and do it.
All right, let's talk about,um, let's talk about technology
a little bit more for a minute.
Um, AI is coming.
We know that.
What do you think?
It's here.
Yeah, I should say that, butit's coming more and more and
more to the mortgage industry.
What do you think theimpact is going to be?
(32:23):
And what do you see as thepluses and minuses of AI?
Melissa Langdale (32:27):
Gosh, that's, there's a lot in that.
So, you know, obviously AI is here.
There, there's a lot for lendersto think about both from how
do I, how do I leverage itappropriately, um, in my organization?
How do I understand really therisk that our organization has?
Um, and then, you know, how do we.
How do we continue to innovate atthe speed that consumers want and
(32:50):
leverage that to be able to do that?
And it's, but, but also notjust build a front end engine.
Um, that's really, really fast.
How do I leverage it to producequality loans and to sell them faster?
Um, and so, you know, there's,there's ways to, to use AI
for all of those things.
You know, I, I see it today as, um,there's, there's processes that mortgage
(33:13):
has built, for example, underwriters,um, you know, you bring in a brand
new underwriter, what do you do?
Uh, you, you put them through a QCprocess, of course, you don't tell
them they can underwrite, you know,FHA loans with no guidance, um, there's
things like that, that, that lendersare really starting to think through,
how do I leverage AI in a way that.
(33:34):
Um, that keeps my team at highest and bestuse, but also allows me to keep a pulse
on, on, um, what's working and what mightnot be working from an AI perspective.
Not a lot of lenders are considering kindof decisioning, um, through, through AI.
They're, they're mostly considering howdo I create kind of operational efficiency
(33:56):
scenario desks, for example, for their,their underwriters or their loan officers.
Um, there are some technology providersthat, that are in our network that
are looking at ways to either create,um, transparency in the process with
consumers as they're going through amortgage, um, with, with kind of task
creation and, um, document review,uh, faster and, and things like that,
(34:22):
that, um, Um, you know, it's fantastic.
They're improving customerexperience, but they're not really
relying on it for decisioning.
They have kind of human and loopprocesses or QC processes where
they're kind of testing the systems.
I think the probably our regulators,our GSEs, um, are a little nervous
(34:42):
about AI because there are somany things that it is capable of.
Especially as it learns moreand more and more over time.
And really, you know, there's, thereprobably will be eventually expectations
of lenders that they're going to be kindof held accountable for the decisions
that they're allowing systems to, uh, tohave, but we'll, we'll see where it goes.
(35:06):
Um, you know, they're,they're held accountable today
to underwriter decisions.
Right.
Um, and so, uh, youknow, I, I think there's.
There's going to be a lot that's evolving.
It is evolving really,really, really fast.
That we're, we spend a lot of timetalking about it with our lenders.
In fact, I created a, um, a groupthat is an innovation focused
(35:26):
working group, uh, that spendsa lot of time talking about AI.
It's called SparkLab.
Um, and, uh, you know, just.
Helping everybody to understand thedifference between kind of basic
business roles that you build in your,your system that, that creates kind of
a little bit of operational efficiencyto, you know, AI and then generative AI
that really needs kind of large languagemodels that you're using for, for some
(35:50):
level of maybe income calculationsor, you know, but it's not like full
decisioning, but it, but it has theability of, of digesting information and
providing significant data to the process.
Dale Vermillion (36:03):
Okay, good.
It's interesting because I'vegot a very good friend of mine.
I've known for 25 years.
He has been the head of, uh, some verylarge lenders, technology departments.
He is just a whiz when itcomes to all the technology.
And we had a conversation about AI and Ilearned something from him that I never
knew that there's different about him.
Places, I guess you can get AI fromand what their company does, he's, he's
(36:27):
now running, running his own company.
What they do is they go in and they'lltake questions and they'll put them
in and they'll match the four and.
A lot of them are incorrect,not even close to correct.
And then one is closer and then one'sthe actual number that you'll get.
And, and they're constantlyscreening through to get the right
and best answer all the time.
So, you know, there's a lot ofefficiencies that we gained by AI, but
(36:47):
lenders will have to be really careful.
Cause I know this was the numberone conversation that I heard at the
Lenny Tree summit when I was speakingat that, you know, that, that's it.
That was a tech.
a tech conference forall intents and purposes.
And AI was the rage of the conversation.
And some people were really excitedand some people were scared to death.
And, you know, it was sucha wide scope that I saw.
Yep.
It's
Melissa Langdale (37:07):
you hit the nail on the head.
It really is, um, data in, like,you've got to have a big enough
language model and a really goodsystem for helping AI to learn.
Yep.
Um, and, and I thinkthat's where the, the.
You know, evolution needs to continueto go in the mortgage space is that
we have to be able to ensure thatthese platforms are learning the
(37:27):
right way for a lot of reasons.
You don't want, um, you know, a partof the process to unintentionally
discourage a customer to, to notmove forward because, um, you know,
they don't have the full picture orthey're making the wrong decision or,
you know, whatever the case, there's.
there's like fair lendingimplications in some of this too.
And so, um, yes, you, you have to be ableto understand the data that's going in.
(37:50):
You have to have a good test process, um,you know, to ensure that it's learning
the way that you, you want it to learn.
So
Dale Vermillion (37:57):
2024 for a minute.
Um, uh, what do you see fromthe mortgage collaborative?
What, what do you see and kindof, you know, what is your, um,
What is your outlook for 2024?
Give us the good, the bad and the ugly.
Melissa Langdale (38:13):
Well, if we all had a crystal ball.
Dale Vermillion (38:17):
Good point.
That's a good start.
Melissa Langdale (38:20):
You know, I'll just preface that, right?
Hopes and dreams and wishesand unicorns and rainbows.
I think that, um, you know, Look,our, our industry has been challenged
over the last couple of years.
I think challenges, um, are, areactually kind of cool because they
allow for, um, lenders and, and ourindustry to kind of rethink things.
(38:42):
And, um, you know, I, I think they'vespent a lot of time rethinking things
and those that have really built agood, solid foundation of, of, you
know, innovation as well as support,um, are, are going to be really.
Poised in 2024 is that marketstarts to shift and I think that
(39:03):
it will, um, you know, that, thatthey're going to be able to take
some market share when that happens.
Um, so it'll be, it'll be interesting.
I mean, you know, look at the endof the day, there's a significant
portion of the, um, of homeownersacross the country that have interest
rates that, uh, even if rates go downto, you know, 6 percent won't be.
(39:28):
percent won't be refinanceable.
Um, and so, you know, I, I don'tthink we're going to see a giant
surge of refinance opportunities.
I could be wrong.
Um, I, I, you know, hope for ourindustry that I am, but I think
there's going to be a really solidpurchase market in the coming year.
I think you're going to see inventory,you know, open up some of these,
um, Um, Some of the builders that,that you've mentioned have kind
(39:50):
of increased starts are going tostart to hit the market in 2024.
And so this, I think all ofthose things coming together is
going to make for a good year.
Dale Vermillion (39:59):
Yeah.
I mean, in the month of December or monthof November, the statistics on new home
starts was annualized million new homes.
That's a lot of new inventory.
When you consider where we're.
Our numbers are at right now,so that should lag into 2024.
We've still got some supply chainissues and other things that we're
dealing with, but you know, overall,I think that's going to be good.
(40:20):
And look from a refinance perspective,if we do get down in the low
sixes, high fives, I mean, we've,we've made a fair amount of loans.
I mean, 325, 000 approximateloans will close in 2023.
Um, and an average probably of 7.
25 percent coupon.
If you average them all out, youget down to six there, there's some
(40:41):
opportunities, especially when youinclude in the fact that the average
credit cardage straight is up to 27.
8 percent right now.
That's the average.
That's not, that's crazy.
That's, that means we got 35percent credit cards out there,
you know, home equity lines are13, 14 percent a lot of times.
So when you start looking at all thoseblended rates and putting all that debt
(41:01):
together and consumer debt is by far thehighest it's ever been in us history.
While at the same time, equity is thehighest has ever been in us history.
So there's opportunities there, Ithink for 2024, but, uh, I'm with you.
I think that, I think we're going tosee much better trending, Uh, from what
we saw this year, we, we had some majorthings that happened this year that
we thought we were going to see that.
(41:22):
And then we had the debt ceiling problem.
And then we had the downgrade fromFitch, you know, just, it seemed
like one thing after anotherhit 2024 is an election year.
That's always a good thing.
Good things happen in election years,generally for the mortgage industry.
Melissa Langdale: Historically, you're right. (41:35):
undefined
There, there is generally a loweringof interest rates in an election year.
So we can all, we can all
Dale Vermillion (41:42):
look forward to that.
Let's hope that really happens becausewe don't, yeah, I don't want to hear any
more reports in 2024 of hawkish comments.
I'm so tired of thatphrase, hawkish comments.
I've seen that so many times.
All right.
So give us, um, to kind of wrapthis up, uh, from your perspective.
(42:03):
Two or three things that you thinkare critical for lenders to really be
doing in the coming year and really befocusing on to improve their businesses.
Um, uh, straight, straight from, fromyour book, from your playbook, this
is some Melissa wisdom for everybodyto, to have no pressure at all.
(42:24):
We, we know, we know you, we knowyou've got the experience and the,
and the wisdom to share with that.
So give lenders an idea of what youthink should be happening in 2024.
Melissa Langdale (42:34):
You know, I, I think, um, the, with the market looking to shift,
um, you know, in the coming year, I thinkit's going to be really, really important
for leaders to understand what theirteams really need in order to navigate
something like that, um, especially whenstaffing levels have been low and have
had to be, you know, lowered over thelast, you know, couple of years, right?
(42:57):
Um, it's going to be important for the,You know, leaders to step up and realize
that their teams are going to needdifferent things in a growing market.
Uh, it's also going to be importantto, to not, um, to, to manage kind
of expectations as the market, uh,shifts and, and try to leverage
technology as much as they can to.
scale businesses, um, with, withoutnecessarily having the swings of, of
(43:21):
headcount, um, that our, our industryhas seen over the years and needed to
have seen, uh, to keep loans moving.
Um, so leverage technology,be fantastic leaders.
Um, and you know, I think continueto build relationships in the markets
that they serve at the end of theday, you and I know we've been in
this industry long enough that.
(43:41):
you know, success happens withrelationships and local markets
that you serve, put you in front ofthe right customers that are really
ready, willing, and able to buy.
Um, and so, yeah, build relationships,be great leaders and, uh, try to scale
as much as possible with technology.
Dale Vermillion (43:58):
Okay.
So let me ask you two finalquestions then on that.
Let's talk about being a great leader.
Define that.
For me, but from, from your perspective,you meet leaders all the time.
You see the great ones.
What are the characteristics thatyou see in them that somebody can
say, man, I need more of that.
Melissa Langdale (44:13):
Yeah.
Gosh, that's such a good question.
Uh, everybody defines leadershipa little bit different.
I, um, am a, a servant leader kindof mentality at the end of the day is
about kind of bringing vision, being thecompass for your, your team that they
need, kind of showing them the directionthe company has to go and helping them
(44:33):
and guiding them along the way to, tokeep moving in the right direction.
And I think as long as you're Youknow, you're, you're one step ahead of
where your, your company wants to go.
And you've got thisreally fantastic vision.
You're a great communicator along it.
And you, you are understanding andcaring of the people around you.
Um, I don't know that thatto me is a great leader.
Dale Vermillion (44:55):
I love what you just said there.
That was pure gold.
When you said be a compassfor your organization.
I think, I think the mortgagecollaborator should get a t shirt.
That says that I think that's agreat, great, because it's, that's
a great visual right there is yougot to be the North star as a leader
and couldn't agree with you more.
If you're not a servant leader, you'renot a leader in my book, period.
(45:17):
Because if you're not serving your people,then they think you're in it for yourself.
And the moment they think that they'renot going to follow you anywhere.
And I loved how you talked about thepower of the importance of communication
to have a vision communicated effectivelyand make sure you're keeping that
really positive mindset going forward.
Because the thing that I see themost common in the best leaders
(45:40):
is you just can't get them down.
I mean, it doesn't matterwhat the market does.
They understand, you know, what it's,it's what I call the pivoting concept.
Okay.
So that's a problem.
Nothing we can do to change it.
Let's solve it.
Let's now take that problem.
Let's turn it into something good.
Let's work through thisand not look backwards.
They're always lookingout the front window.
(46:01):
They're not looking inthe rear view mirror.
Melissa Langdale (46:02):
That's right.
And I, I think you just hit the nail onthe head that kind of perfecting the art
of the pivot, um, can, can absolutely helpleaders, you know, be that compass, right?
Um, maybe the, the direction needsto, to move a little bit, but you
Uh, just recognizing the fact that,you know, the same things you did
yesterday and changing work won'tbe the things that are necessary
(46:25):
needed for your team in the future.
And so,
Dale Vermillion (46:28):
uh, I love it.
It's good.
And then let's talk, the lastthing is about relationship.
You talked about that too.
And, you know, this is somethingthat, that I talk about.
All the time, you know, I, I've been apartner with ICE, uh, mortgage technology
and that whole group for a long time.
And I've spoke at theirconferences year after year.
I'm speaking again, uh, this year in 2024.
(46:49):
Um, and what I've really focused thosespeeches around is high tech, high
touch, you know, technology's critical.
You, you gotta have it.
You've got to be up to date on it.
You got to use it for efficiencies,but what you can't use it for.
is building relationship and loyalty.
You need people to do that.
You need conversations with yourcustomers, conversations with
(47:11):
your partners that are value basedconversations where you really build
deep relationships, really understandtheir needs, understand their
goals, understand their challenges,and then solve those things.
Give me a little bit more of your thoughtprocess on the power and importance of
relationship in today's marketplace.
Because a lot of people think, Oh no, Justbuild a great technology and go to town.
(47:34):
But we've seen a lot of fintechcompanies fail miserably where their
whole mindset was all tech for theconsumer, no personal relationship.
And what I'm seeing is my top clients,it's all personal relationship.
Melissa Langdale (47:48):
You know, I think there's a balance of it.
I'll kind of play devil'sadvocate a little bit.
Yeah, I do.
I think there's a balance and youhit the nail on the head, but what
you were talking about at yourICE conference is the balance of
kind of high touch and high tech.
Um, there, there, there are placesfor technology to allow customers
to have transparency in the process.
(48:08):
To be able to self serve as theyhave the knowledge and skill
set and ability to self serve.
And, um, and also have a hightouch person that's coming along
beside them and helping them to getthrough one of the biggest financial
decisions that they're having tomake in their lifetime, especially if
(48:29):
they're doing it for the first time.
Right.
And so there is that,that balance, I think of.
Allowing them to self serve where theycan and being that resource, um, to
help them to think broader beyond.
I just need an interest rate.
You know, um, you know, I had oneof my, my loan officers, you know,
years and years and years ago, andhe would have, you know, this is like
(48:53):
an age old question where customerscall and they say, Hey, what, what,
you know, what's your interest rate,what's your 30 year fixed rate today?
And he would always answer itwith, well, What rate do you need?
I, I have all of the rates and itwas such a brilliant way to just.
Just, just flip the conversation andsay, what's really important to you.
(49:16):
And I think as long as loan officersare taking that approach and being
really, um, consultative to customersas well as their real estate partners
and referral partners, the keyis, is you gotta have both sides.
You can be fantastic on the customerside, but if you're not building
relationships with your realtors, yourbuilders, your financial planners,
your divorce attorneys, those, Thosepeople that are continually, um, you
(49:39):
know, providing you with referrals.
You're, you're going to miss the boat.
Cause somebody else is going to do it.
That's right.
Dale Vermillion (49:45):
That's right.
Yeah.
And just, just to clarify, in case Ididn't make that clear, I am a huge fan of
technology and, and you have to have both.
You're absolutely right.
Couldn't agree with it more.
But, but as I look at today'smarketplace, it feels to me like
you could survive better with.
lesser tech and higher relationshipthan you would with higher
(50:05):
tech and lesser relationship.
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
And, and, and you said somethingearlier that was important.
You said, you know, you got to knowthose customers that want to self serve.
And, and what I see in the industrya lot, and, you know, this year
alone, I probably listened over.
400 sales calls with my clients.
Because part of what Ido, I'll train their loan.
We'll train their loan officers.
(50:26):
We'll train their leaders.
We train their ops team.
We work with the entire companyto build a uniform selling system,
operation system, and leadership system.
It's all built around that servant leadermindset and serving your customers.
Well, but then what we'll do iswe'll do shopper calls on the
backend to make sure they're doingthe things that we want them to do.
And we've listened to call aftercall, after call, after call,
where the borrower was sent a link.
(50:49):
But the borrower actuallynever asked for the link.
They didn't really want to be self serve.
What the loan originator said was, well,I could take an application or I can
send you this link, which is much easier.
And the borrower was like, well, okay.
And then I look at studies that tellme again and again, and again, about 30
percent want to do the link and about 70percent want to talk to a human being.
(51:11):
And I think that's where we're missingthe boat in the industry a lot.
Melissa Langdale (51:14):
Yep.
I a hundred percent agree.
In, in fact, I, I.
Um, there's, there's a lot of waysthat loan officers can do that.
And I think you hit the nail on the headthat, but they got to ask the question.
Uh, they got to ask, like,what, what's important to you?
Yes.
Uh, what's important for you to, for,for us to have a 15 minute conversation
and walk through this, or are youstrapped for time and you can do this
(51:36):
on your own and we'll, we'll sync afteryou fill out all your information.
But I also think there's another layerwhere we really can leverage technology.
To help our customers to know that weactually know them, you know, the, the,
um, at the end of the day, like there,there's a lot of industries that, um, that
keep customers for a really long time.
Mortgage has not been quite as successful.
(52:01):
And for a lot of reasons, reallyit's, you know, there's a giant
period of time between their lastpurchase and the one that they're
doing, you know, the next time.
But, but I do think there is anopportunity for, uh, for For lenders
to continue to think about how do I,how do I keep a lifetime customer?
Um, and there's, there's ways to leveragetechnology to pre populate applications
(52:23):
for them so that all they have to do iskind of go in and, and, you know, just
check and make sure that the informationhas not changed since the last time
that, that you did a loan for them.
Making that process, there's, there'sbarriers of going through the application
process as easy as possible, whetherthey're doing it online or you're, you're
doing it on the phone, um, breaking downthose can, can make a big difference.
Dale Vermillion (52:47):
Well, that's a great way to end the, the, the interview
because that was gold right there.
You're absolutely right.
I mean, the reason weas an industry have not.
done a great job at retaining ourcustomers because we don't stay in
contact after the sale, after theclose, I, this is, this is probably
one of the things that I harp onthe most with loan officers is look,
you're not going after one transaction.
(53:08):
You're going after a lifetimerelationship if you're doing it right.
And all of those experienced loanofficers we talked about earlier that
have had, you know, incredible careers.
That's what they did.
Um, you know, I just recently, uh,for our clients, we do a monthly
video every month on sales, right?
Bring a market update.
And then we talk about things thatwe think are important in the market.
And I did an interview with a, arealtor who did over 500 sales in 2022.
(53:35):
Uh, that's a big time realtor and heactually worked with one of the loan
officers that I trained and he said, youknow, interesting fact, that loan officer
has stayed in touch when we've workedtogether for 10 years now and we sat down
a couple of months ago and we looked at aloan that we closed and we went down the
family tree and it turned out that thatloan was the 51st loan originated from
(53:57):
the first person that this loan officerhad gotten a loan from with that realtor.
Um, 51 loans because she stayed in touchmonth after month, year after year.
She said, I'm going to beyour loan officer for life.
And she meant it.
And you know, today loan officersthink they're too busy for that,
but technology can prompt them andguide them so that look, here it is.
(54:17):
It's right in front of you.
Just make a phone call.
No matter what you say,Hey, how you doing?
How's things going?
That's good enough.
Just keep it in touch.
We'll make a big differencein that longevity.
Melissa Langdale (54:27):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I love, yeah, the phone call,just, just, hi, how you doing?
How's your family?
How are your kids?
What's, you know, are the samethings that are important to you?
You know, when we first talkedimportant to you today, um, yeah, all
of those things make a huge difference.
Yeah.
How'd
Dale Vermillion (54:43):
the home improvements go?
Did you put the addition on?
Simple question.
You'll talk for 30 minuteswith them about that.
And next thing you know, you'resaying, you know what, I'm thinking
about, I need more money to do this.
And here we go.
You're right back into it again.
Awesome.
All right.
So let's, let's close out with,um, how do people reach out
to the Mortgage Collaborative?
Tell us a little bit about,uh, membership, what that
entails and provides.
(55:04):
I'm a, I'm a huge fan of what you guys do.
I certainly, anybody that's watchingthis, if you're not part of TMC, I
recommend you become part of TMC.
Talk to our audience about how they cando that and what do they get when they're
part of the Mortgage Collaborative.
Wow.
Thank
Melissa Langdale (55:19):
you so much for that.
Um, by the way, they can always reach out.
They can, they can, uh, we have,we have links on our website,
the mortgage collaborative.
com, um, that they can,they can reach out on.
They can always email me directly too.
And, and, um, I'll provide your,my LinkedIn profile and they
can reach out that way too.
So lots of different waysto get in touch with us.
Um, membership is really simple forour, our lenders across the country.
(55:42):
Um, you have one membership for yourentire organization, um, have access
to, you know, two in person conferences,one virtual, like we talked about, but a
plethora of events throughout the year.
And I say plethora, um, and itprobably doesn't even do it justice.
Every single week, we have four to fiveevents that we put on for our members.
(56:08):
Every week we have working groups, lablabs, we have TMC connect sessions.
We do, you know, the rundown, um, with RobChristman every Friday and last weekend
mortgage day, so you can keep in touch on,on, you know, the top news, um, Articles
that are happening throughout the week.
Like there's, there's a plethoraof information that we provide
to our members on a daily basis.
(56:29):
Um, and then, you know, those inperson conferences and the virtual
conference where we put peopleinto groups and help them to.
To help each other to grow, uh,is, is really pretty special.
Um, and you know, outside of that, we, weactually have started just, just recently,
um, an advocacy committee where we'rebuilding really strong relationships
(56:51):
with agencies and regulators.
So that as you know, guidelinechange as, as policy changes, that
we can be a voice for our lenders.
Uh, as those sort of things happenand we can put them at the table with
the decision makers that are, thatare changing policy, that are changing
guidelines and help them to understandregulators and agencies to understand,
(57:13):
um, what that means actually to consumers.
Cause a lot of our lenders, they're.
boots on the ground withcustomers every single day.
Um, and it's really important forour regulators and agencies to, to
have a good sense of what, what theirpolicy changes mean for new customers.
Um, so all those things are in membership.
I could talk about it forever.
I know you want to wrap things up.
(57:34):
Uh, so just reach out, uh,on LinkedIn, our website.
We would love to chat with anybody.
Awesome.
Dale Vermillion (57:40):
Well, Melissa, you've been a delight.
Thank you so much for, for beingon batting a thousand, uh, great,
great, um, advice and wisdom.
We really appreciate that.
I want to wish you a very MerryChristmas and a Happy New Year.
Uh, and, uh, look forward to, uh, toworking with you again, hopefully in 2024.
Melissa Langdale (57:57):
That sounds fantastic.
Thank you so much for having me.
This was a pleasure and an
Dale Vermillion (58:00):
honor.
You're welcome.
God bless.
And we'll see you soon.
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