May 15, 2023 • 47 mins
In this episode of Batting 1,000, Dale Vermillion is joined by Brittany Hodak, an award-winning entrepreneur, customer experience speaker, and author of Creating Superfans: How To Turn Your Customers Into Lifelong Advocates.
Brittany shares her journey from founding and scaling an entertainment startup to becoming a leading voice in customer experience. She discusses the key principles from her book, offering valuable insights on how to turn customers into superfans. The conversation covers strategies for creating memorable customer experiences, building authentic connections, and leveraging the power of storytelling in business.
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In This Episode
Creating Superfans
Brittany introduces the concept of superfans and why they are vital for business success, emphasizing the need to go beyond customer satisfaction to create loyal advocates.
The power of storytelling (starts at 8:12)
Brittany discusses the importance of storytelling in building strong customer relationships and shares techniques for effectively incorporating storytelling into business practices.
Authenticity in customer experience (starts at 15:34)
The conversation explores how authenticity can transform customer interactions and lead to lasting loyalty, with Brittany providing practical tips for businesses to implement.
Lessons from big brands (starts at 22:46)
Brittany shares insights and lessons learned from working with some of the world's biggest brands, including Walmart, Disney, and entertainers like Katy Perry and Dolly Parton.
Scaling customer experience (starts at 30:58)
Strategies for scaling customer experience initiatives in growing businesses, ensuring that the personal touch isn't lost as the company expands.
Soundbites
"If you want customers for life, you need to create superfans." — Brittany Hodak
"Authenticity unlocks the door to transformational customer experiences." — Brittany Hodak
"Storytelling is the bridge that connects your brand to your customers’ hearts." — Brittany Hodak
About Brittany Hodak
Brittany Hodak is an award-winning entrepreneur, author, and customer experience speaker who has delivered keynotes across the globe to organizations including American Express and the United Nations.
She has worked with some of the world’s biggest brands and entertainers, including Walmart, Disney, Katy Perry, and Dolly Parton. She founded and scaled an entertainment startup to eight figures before exiting, and she is the former Chief Experience Officer of Experience.com.
Forbes said of her debut book, Creating SUPER Fans, “If you have customers, you need this book. Period.”
Connect with Brittany
Buy Brittany's book → amazon.com/dp/1774580780...
Hire Brittany to speak → brittanyhodak.com/speaking/
Listen to Brittany's podcast → brittanyhodak.com/podcast/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
All right.
Hello everybody, and welcome to Battinga thousand where we talk with the big
hitters, uh, in business and uh, in thefinancial services and mortgage industry.
And man, today I've got a incredibleguest that I'm so excited to,
uh, to have with me today.
Uh, Brittany Hodak.
I had the great privilege tomeet Britney for the first time.
Uh, about, uh, a month and a halfago, we did a speaking engagement
(00:28):
together, um, for a client, uh, downin Southern California, PRMG , uh,
uh, who's both a client of bothof ours and good friends of ours.
And, I was, you know, I, Ihad the bad position of having
to speak after Brittney.
That was not an enviable positionto be in, cuz she knocked
it outta the park with her.
Uh, her talk about creating super fans,which is from her book that is just
(00:50):
doing, uh, incredible, uh, one thatwe recommend to everybody out there.
And I, I'm gonna give you just a, acouple of quick credentials about her.
But first, Britney, welcome.
We're so glad to have youon Batting a thousand.
Thank you, Dale.
I am so thrilled to be here.
I was honored that we got to meet eachother and that I got to pick up some
amazing tips watching you speak at thePRMG event, and so I was thrilled when
(01:11):
you invited me to be on this show, and I'mreally excited for our conversation today.
Well, I am too.
So just so the audience knows a littlebit more about you, um, I, I was just
mentioning to you when, when I sawyour credentials, my, my jaw hit the
floor because you've done some things.
You are an award-winning entrepreneur.
You're an award-winning author.
You're award-winning at customerexperience and, and helping people
(01:32):
with that as a consultant and aspeaker and all of those things.
You've done keynotes across theglobe, including American Express,
the United Nations I wannahear about that one for sure.
What that had to be like.
Um, and you've worked with some of theworld's biggest brands and entertainers.
Walmart, Disney, Katy Perry, Dolly Parton.
Um, Amazing.
You also founded and scaled Entertainmentstartup, uh, to an eight figure, uh,
(01:54):
setting before exiting that you werethe former Chief Experience officer
for experience.com, uh, where we havefriends over there that we, we love
working with and Forbes said, if youhave customers, you need this book.
Period.
I don't think theycould've said it better.
Creating superfans isreally making a splash.
I see your book everywhere.
Uh, I love that.
(02:14):
Um, I got a chance to kind of hearthe book firsthand, which is good,
and we're gonna talk about that book.
But let, let's just start with, talkabout how you got where you're at today.
Tell us a little bit moreabout your background.
Just share with us how you got towork with some of these incredible
companies and people across thenation and across the world.
Sure.
Well, I grew up in a small town inOklahoma and loved the radio because
(02:38):
that was, you know, sort of pre-internet.
That was the outlet to the outsideworld, right outside of this
tiny little town where I livedand when I was in high school.
School, I had the opportunity to gospend a day at the radio station.
They had this thing called job shadowing.
When you know, it was basicallylike a one day internship.
You would pick what you wanted todo and then go spend a day there.
And during that day Iwas like, please hire me.
(03:01):
I will take any job you have.
I just, I have to work here.
Please, please, please gimme a job.
And the station manager said, well,you look like you're about the right
height for the mascot suit, how doyou feel about being sting the bee?
And I said, that sounds amazing.
I would love to be sting the bee.
Please, please, please give me a job.
And so for the next several monthsI was sting the bee, this radio
(03:25):
station mascot who got to go toevery, you know, car dealership sale
and furniture store, grand opening.
And so I was doing that.
I was sophomore, junior in high schooland one day after about six months, I
came into work and the station managersaid, you know, I keep seeing ads on
TV for this movie called Bridget JonesDiary, and my maiden name was Jones.
(03:49):
And so she said, we've got a Britney Jonesand it feels like we should do something
along this like Bridget Jones diary thing.
What could we do and call it your diary?
And I said, well, you're alwaystrying to get more people to you
know, go to the radio station website.
What if I just interviewed all the bandsthat came to town And that was my diary.
You know, like what happened when Britneywas hanging out backstage with this band?
(04:11):
And she said, oh, like that othermovie, that almost famous movie.
Yeah, everyone's talking about that.
That's probably gonna win some Oscars.
Let's do it.
Just make a list of all thebands you wanna see and we'll
set it up with the record labels.
And I said, are you kidding?
Like, what?
And she said, you know, HTML, right?
And I was like, of course I know.
(04:32):
Them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yes.
And so I'm like desperately tryingto remember those four letters
so that I can figure out what inthe world it is and teach myself.
So as like a 16 or seven year teenyear old kid, it became my job
to hang out with rock stars andbrag about it on the internet.
Like that was literally what peoplegave me money to do, which ruined
(04:54):
any chances of me ever having a,you know, quote unquote real job.
So that was my start.
That was my start in theentertainment industry.
I took it so seriously.
I was like, I'm a journalist, like I, youknow, am, am a entertainment reporter.
And so I did everything I could.
I hustled to meet everybody I could tomake every connection, introduction.
(05:15):
I was begging for internships, um, beggingat like every time I met somebody who
was connected to a labels headquartersin New York or LA I was like, can I
come intern for you when I'm in college?
Like, let's stay in touch.
So I just hustled my waythrough high school and college.
Then when I graduated,I moved to New York.
I worked for Warner Music Group.
(05:35):
I worked for Sony Music Group.
Um, and then I had, I had this ideaof creating this product that was
like a collectible for music fans.
When an album came out, whether itwas on CD or vinyl, I was like, what
if there was a way to have a packagethat physically was as immersive
(05:56):
of an experience as the music?
And so I started learningabout specialty packaging.
I started looking for ways.
To like make all these cool collectibles.
And I eventually started myown company when I was 27.
After a few years of working for differentlabels and agencies, I launched my
first company and the very first clientthat I worked with, and the very first
client that I pitched was Walmart.
(06:17):
And so with Walmart as my partner, I wasable to get a lot of people to answer my
phone calls that probably wouldn't haveotherwise done so and so I started an
entertainment agency from the ground upand got to work with many of the largest
entertainers and brands on the planetover the, you know, decade that followed.
(06:38):
That is just such a cool story,and I love that here you are
a 27 year old entrepreneur.
And you just started small with Walmart?
Yeah, I was kinda like, I didn't know.
I didn't know what I didn't know.
Like I didn't know how crazy that wasbecause to me, Walmart was just another
entertainment account and it made sensebecause I thought, well, if this is
(06:58):
gonna work, I'm gonna need this scale.
So rather than try to sell this into a bunch of accounts, like 300
stores here, 500 stores there like.
Let's just ask Walmart, and they'vegot 4,000 stores, so if they say yes,
then everything is that much easier.
And so I didn't know about thepercentage of businesses that fail.
I didn't know how hard it wasto be a female founded, you
(07:21):
know, company with no capital.
I, I just didn't know whatI didn't know and that, that
really worked to my advantage.
And then several years, probably fouror five years into the company, I had
been very fortunate to get a lot ofaccolades, won a lot of awards because
of the scale and the volume that wewere doing without any outside funding.
(07:42):
And so I got a call one day froma casting producer who said,
Hey, I read about you in Forbes.
I think your story's really cool.
Do you wanna come on Shark Tank?
And I said, yeah, that sounds like fun.
I, let's do it.
And so I went on Shark Tank, whichled to a lot of other really cool
opportunities that I never could have.
You know, even dreamed of, wow.
(08:03):
Working in other verticals like sportsand Hollywood, and I started to get
a ton of speaking requests, whichis what sort of catapulted me into
this new phase of my career that I'vebeen doing for the past five or six
years, which is speaking and writing.
And again, something thatI never would've even.
Thought of as a potential career path,but it's been, it's been so fun and so
(08:26):
neat to, to get, to take everything thatI've learned in the entertainment industry
and showcase the fact that that's reallyjust customer experience under a different
name and all the same things that helppeople have success in the entertainment
industry can really separate people.
From other businesses or othersalespeople in commodity markets.
(08:48):
So taking some of the, you know,razzle-dazzle and some of the principles
from the world of entertainment andputting them into place for, you know,
creating amazing customer experiences.
I love it.
So, um, let's fast forward now that youare now the author of Creating Super Fans.
I wanna get to that for a minute, butyou said something I want to key in
(09:09):
on for a second that, um, I thoughtwas just an absolute golden nugget.
You talked about the whole Ididn't know what I didn't know.
And, and, and it's funny because, youknow, in the mortgage arena where, where
I work all the time, especially now in a,in a higher rate market, tougher market.
I see a lot of people who failbecause they know too much.
(09:31):
And the ones that tend to succeed,don't I, I think about my own career.
When I started in the mortgage business in1983 , 40 years ago, and I, I came out of,
you know, construction into selling potsand pans, door to door into being a loan
officer, and my first district managercame to my office on the first day.
I came there and I said, Mr.
Finn, what do you expect me to do?
(09:52):
He said, you better do 20loans a month, or we fire you.
And I thought, Okay.
I didn't know any difference.
So the first month I, I closed 17 loansand thought I was gonna get fired.
He came in, he said, I'mgonna give you one more month.
So I said, I promise.
I hit 23.
I hit 24 the next month.
Got to 28 the third month.
And, and then I've come to find outin the third month, all everybody
else is doing two and three cuz I wasthe only loan officer in the branch.
(10:14):
And, and when people say, well,how did you do 23, 28 when
everybody was doing three?
I said, because I didn'tknow what I didn't know.
I was told to do 20 or I was fired.
So I just, I didn't know any better.
And sometimes that naive actuallyworks to our benefit in business.
When we just go in with freshenedideas, we don't think too
much, we don't overthink it.
(10:35):
We just literally try to do ourbest and give the best foot forward.
So in that vein, let's talkabout creating super fans.
Let's talk about your book, because look,first off anybody who's watching this, if
you want a great speaker, hire Brittany.
She's fantastic.
Um, Our friends of PRMG andKevin Perio, KP, who we both love.
Good friend of both of ours.
I know he would attest to that too.
Um, You really did a great job on that.
(10:57):
But I wanna talk about the super fan idea.
What, what, how you think, why you thinkthis is important, um, how mortgage
lenders can really create super fans.
And walk us through, I love the,when you laid out your acrostic
of super and what that stood for.
I just thought it was a great templatefor any company to understand the
importance and in today's competitivemarket, creating super fans has
(11:19):
never been more important in my book.
So tell us a little bit more about that.
Well, thank you Dale for all of that.
I will say, so in the entertainmentindustry, one of the things that people
spend endless amounts of resources onmoney, time, um, is, is this idea of
breaking new artists, helping somebody,you know, explode in popularity.
(11:42):
And I think that there are just somany parallels to, like, you as that
new agent who had no idea how manyloans you were supposed to be closing.
It's like you've just, you'vejust gotta, that's break through.
That's, and a lot of times when Italk to people, whether they've worked
in the financial services industryfor a couple of years or a couple
of decades, one of the things thatthey talk about is this idea of.
(12:06):
I need more awareness.
I need more people to knowwho I am, to know what I do.
Yeah, like I've got an awareness problem.
If I could just spend more money or if Icould just come up with better advertising
and almost a hundred percent of the time,it is not an awareness problem at all.
Plenty of people know.
They just don't care because youhaven't given them a reason to.
(12:27):
You haven't shown them why youare different from everybody else.
It's not an awareness problem.
It's an apathy problem, which is exactlythe same in the music industry, right?
It's like, yeah, you and everyoneelse in the world have a new single,
unless I, in 10 seconds can tell whyI should care because of what's in it.
For me, it's just background noise.
(12:49):
It's just like, yeah, okay.
You'll go into the consideration setand so when you understand that what
you're trying to overpower is apathy,that you've got to come up with a hook
to make people care to connect yourthing to their life in a way that says,
this is why you need to know who I am.
This is how I am adding value to you.
(13:10):
And by paying attention to me,your life gets better in some
meaningful, measurable way.
That is not the ceiling, that is thefloor, that is the cost of entry.
If you wanna go from a commodity providerto a category of one in the minds of
your partners and your prospects andyour customers, you've gotta be able
(13:31):
to tell them what's in it for them.
Why should they care?
Why does it matter?
How are you different and betterthan everyone else who does
exactly the same thing that you do?
And when you approach itwith that mentality, then
you can start to say, okay.
What am I the best in the world at?
Or what do I wanna bethe best in the world at?
What am I willing to commit myselfto working toward, to be able to say,
(13:55):
when you work with me, this is whatyou get and this is why it matters.
And when you have that mindset, thenyou can start to think about creating a.
Super fans, but until then it's, you know,like one of the first things I always ask
people is, why do you deserve superfans?
What are you doing?
And I define a superfan as acustomer who creates more customers.
It's someone who has such a greatexperience with you that they're going
(14:17):
to become an enthusiastic advocate.
They'll be back and they'llbe telling their friends.
And if you can't answer that firstquestion, if you can't answer, Why you
deserve superfans, why somebody shouldpay attention to what you're doing and
give you their business as the exclusionof everyone else who's out there
fighting for it, then that's a problem.
Like you are going to have a very hardtime separating yourself from the pack.
(14:41):
So that's the first part, is figuring outwhat are you the best in the world at?
Or what do you want to bethe best in the world at?
And why does that matter to thepeople who you're trying to serve?
Uh, you, you just droppedso many incredible bombs
there that were so powerful.
I love that.
Just a bunch of golden nuggets here.
(15:01):
So let me, let me unpack a couple ofthose if I can with you for just a
minute, because I, I, I love how youtalk first about that first 10 seconds.
You know, I, I, I knew when I listenedto you speak, I'm like, yep, Brittney,
I are th we think the same exact wayabout business because one thing that
I've harped on forever with everyclient, every lender, every loan
officer, every person I've ever workedwith is, if you don't wow 'em in the
(15:23):
first 10 to 15 seconds, forget it.
The game's over it.
It's, it's done after that.
And you do that, and Ilove how you said this.
You do that by showing them what makes youdifferent, but not from a perspective of.
Talking about yourself, butwhat makes you different in how
you're gonna change their life.
(15:43):
That's the key to even starting theprocess to get somebody to want to be a
super fan for you, because you're right,everybody, we, you talked about radio
stations was your first experience.
I've done hundreds and hundreds of radioprograms across the country and I, I've
been in studio many, many times, and.
Everybody listens tothe same radio station.
What's in it for me?
WIIFM , It's all the same one.
(16:04):
And, and you really articulated that well,you know, we, we teach a, a very simple
philosophy in, at Mortgage Champions onthe front end of every call with every
customer, no matter what that call is,or every partner, you start with what
we call the million dollar minute.
You, you begin by, by tellingthem in one minute or less.
Why they would choose you, what makesyou special, what makes you great,
(16:26):
and more importantly, what are thefive things you're gonna do for them
that nobody else has done for them?
And you've got their attentioninstantly, and now you can move to that.
So I love how you articulate it.
Now that I does that stand for thefirst s in Super, which is your, your
acrostic, which is start with your story.
Cause I know you talk aboutstory, know your business
story, know your personal story.
(16:47):
You talk about that a lot in your book.
Is that, is that kindof the setup for that?
It is and it isn't.
So, um, start with your story.
When I say start with your story,I don't mean lead with your story.
I mean that everything hasto originate from your story.
So yes.
Good.
I think the first part is reallyunderstanding, you know, the enemy
(17:07):
and, and that the enemy is apathy.
People are so busy, they'vegot so much going on.
There is a lot to care about.
And so I think that's good.
The first part is understanding thatyour job is to make someone care
about you, to interrupt their day,to interrupt what they're doing.
To say, this is why you should careabout me and not think of me as just one
(17:28):
of several people in your considerationset or several solutions providers.
Even if there are other, you know,mortgage professionals that you
work with, I am not like them.
Like one of these thingsis not like the other.
So yes, understanding that that'sthe goal leads right in to the first
pillar of the supermodel framework,which is start with your story.
And I like to describe thepillars of this framework.
(17:51):
Almost like nesting dolls, every singleone of them builds on the one before.
So starting with your story, understandingyour uniqueness in a way that is very.
Um, relevant to the customer thatyou're trying to reach, understanding
that it's not your job to apply toeveryone, to to appeal to everyone.
(18:12):
It's your job to createa uniqueness and ex.
Exploit that uniqueness in a waythat's going to be irresistible to
those target customers who you wantand forget about everybody else.
Like you don't wanna work with everybody.
You wanna work with the right people.
So starting with your story gives youthat north star of what you're gonna talk
(18:33):
about, what you're gonna share to attractmore of that ideal customer avatar.
Okay, so again, I'm lovingthis interview by the way.
I, I mentioned to you earlier,and I gotta mention to the, to the
audience, uh, Britney's, my firstguest out of our, our new cabin studio.
So it's fun to have you as a kindof the, the, the entree to that.
But I'm loving what you'resaying because you said two
(18:54):
things that are really important.
First off, apathy huge.
You know, in the, in the mortgageindustry, statistically, a customer
today who inquires for a mortgagefrom the time they inquire till
the time they actually fund a loan.
Somewhere between 100 and 200 timesthey'll be contacted by different lenders.
That's a staggering statistic.
I mean, you've got, you've got emailmarketing, you've got cell phone,
(19:16):
smartphone marketing, you've got socialmedia marketing, credit triggers.
All these things are coming after thesecustomers, so, You've got to be able
to cut through all of that pressure,that competitive pressure where yes,
they are apathetic at this point tolike, why would I spend one second
with you unless you say somethingthat captures my interests about me?
(19:38):
And the other thing you talked aboutwas really knowing your customers.
One of the, the common mistakes Ifind a lot, particularly in the, we
call the retail side of the mortgagearena, is we're loan officers who
work with realtors, for example.
They don't understand the conceptof, you've gotta work with
people that are like-minded.
They're like, I'll work with anyrealtor that'll send me business.
No, there's realtors that'll send youbusiness that are, that business is no
(20:00):
good, and you'll waste your time workingon a bunch of things that never lead to
any true business at the end of the day.
And you're never gonnacreate super fans doing that.
So you have to know about their business.
You have to understand and researchthem in advance of your conversation.
So when you start that conversationof differentiation is, Hey, I've,
I've done my homework on you.
(20:21):
Here's all the things that you're doingthat I'm just admire and I wanna tell you
things that we're doing that I think willeven help you get to that next level.
And now you're merging the twostories together instantly into one.
Does that make sense from the way thatyou think about building super fans?
Oh, absolutely.
And I always say that super fansare created at the intersection of
your story and every customer story.
So that Venn diagram of who you are.
(20:43):
Who the realtor is, where that overlaps.
And yes, you should absolutely be aligningyourself with people who understand
the type of customer you want, whowant a very similar type of customer.
And understanding your customeris actually the second pillar
of the supermodel framework.
I said that, you know, they're,they're all kind of like nesting dolls.
They all build on the one before.
And understanding your customerstory is about that clarity.
(21:07):
Who do you wanna work with?
What are they struggling with?
What's the transformation thatyou can really help them with?
Why are you the right person?
Like why should they, you know,choose you over all of the
other options that they have?
So in the book, I talk about how to getfurther clarity on that and one of the
things that, um, I think is, is likereally relevant to the, the way that
(21:31):
people approach understanding customers.
Um, I tell the story in the book ofthe first time I saw one of my teachers
outside of school and I think a lot ofpeople like, remember that moment of
the first time you've seen a teacher atoutside school and you're like, what?
And it sort of breaks your littlebrain a little bit because you've
never thought about that teacheras existing outside of school.
(21:55):
Or at least I hadn't.
Right.
Like I Right, right.
You could've been like a,like a hologram for all.
I knew that like never left thatclassroom cuz I just never thought
about it and so many people.
Especially in mortgage, don't think aboutwho their customers fully are as people.
They're just like, oh,it's another loan number.
Rinse, repeat.
Oh, it's another lead.
Let me call and then call the next one.
(22:16):
But if you take the time to trulyunderstand your customer story, get
to know who they are, get to know whatthey're struggling with, what they
don't understand about this process,you can show up for them in a way that
makes you relevant to their whole life.
Like not just that mortgage that you'rehelping with them with, but to become
a true partner to say, all right, youknow, even after this loan is funded,
(22:40):
like even after you've closed, I'mgonna still be here with you because
you're gonna need somebody to, youknow, refer an electrician or refer a
painter or refer, you know, a gardener.
And I want you to think of me andkeeping that relationship alive.
So of course that you get thereferrals, you get the repeat
business, but that all starts with.
Letting your customers see thatlike 3D fully formed version of you.
(23:05):
Not just like, hi, I'm so-and-so fromx, Y, Z company here to help you with
your loan and understanding who they areas a fully formed person, not just like
that customer on the other side of thatemail address that you bought as a lead.
That's awesome.
Awesome, awesome, awesome.
All right, so start with your story.
Understand your customer story.
(23:27):
The P is for personalized.
I cannot wait for you to talk about thisbecause I think this is such a center.
I love that it's in the middle of supercuz it seems to me like the center of
all success, as I've seen it in my 40year career, is the more you personalize,
the more you build relationship, themore you connect the, the more you
can make things completely unique anddifferent and custom to the person
(23:51):
or the company you're working with.
The more you really start to createthose fans are like, whoa, whoa.
And, and, and I love some of theexamples you used when you were
speaking, um, you know, and, andtalked about so many companies
that are really good at doing that.
Share a little bit about what it meansto personalize the P in your super.
So I said before that super fansare created at the intersection
(24:11):
of your story In there is.
P is Personalize is where that allcomes together, where those two
worlds collide your world and theirs.
By understanding both of your stories,you'll start to have all of those aha
moments about the overlaps, the thingsthat you can do to feel different, to
make it appear that working with youis easier and better than working with
(24:33):
anyone else out there in the world.
And personalization takes a lot of forms.
There's, there's hightouch, there's high tech.
I'm a believer that you need both.
I was on a flight the other day,uh, flying United, and I was
connecting through chicago, I think.
Yeah, it was Chicago.
And when I landed and I turned myphone back on, the first message
(24:54):
that I had was a text from Unitedsaying, welcome to Chicago.
You are landing in this gate.
Your next flight to Atlanta is gonnaleave in an hour and 16 minutes.
It's gonna take you 14 minutes to walkfrom the gate where you're landing
to the gate, where you're going.
If you want step by step directions,touch here for a terminal map.
And I thought, wow, what anamazing example of highly relevant.
(25:16):
Personalized information, the rightperson, the right time, the right message.
And when you can dothat, you make an impact.
You add tremendous value.
Now, there are ways to create the senseof personalization without actually
knowing who your customer is in that sameairport as I was walking by, I noticed.
That all of the restrooms had LED screensoutside showing how many stalls were open
(25:41):
and how many minutes of a walk in bothdirections it was to the next restroom.
So as somebody who's walking by,that's really great information, right?
Are there four open stallsor are there 14 open stalls?
The next room, two minutes away, or 12minutes away, like that is very helpful
information at that moment in time.
So use technology, leverage the technologythat you have access to, to create the
(26:05):
types of touchpoints that are going towow your customers because customers
aren't just comparing you to the bestexperience they've had getting a loan.
They're comparing you to the bestexperience they've had anywhere, period.
Or living in an experienced economy.
It's no longer about just what isyour product or what is the service.
All of the, uh, all of theexperiences are fair game.
(26:28):
Like in a world where we know whereour pizza is before it's delivered,
or how many stops away our Amazonpackages, we expect that same
attention to detail and level ofpersonalization and customization.
Now I said it's not allhigh tech or high touch.
Another example of personalization thatI love is when I go and pick up, uh,
(26:48):
an iced tea cuz I'm an iced tea drinkerand the barista writes a little message
for me on the cup or puts a message onthe napkin when I'm gonna pick it up.
There are things that you can do toshow your customer that you're treating
them not the way you treat every.
Customer, but you're treatingthem as an individual.
You're being authentic to yourself,but you're also honoring the way
(27:09):
they want to be treated for those twoworlds of yours and theirs to collide.
Fantastic.
Loved everything you just coveredin that, that was gold again.
Um, and, and you're absolutely right.
You know, the little things,uh, Harvey McKay had a quote
years ago that I was loved.
He said, little thingsdon't mean everything.
Little things mean ordon't mean, uh, a lot.
(27:31):
They mean everything and they really do.
The little things are the thingsthat that customers remember forever.
You know that little note on the napkin?
I, I've said for 40 years, and thisis old school, but if you're not
sending a handwritten thank you noteto your customers, you're missing a
golden opportunity to connect withthem because nobody does that anymore.
It's not any longer that it's aboutthe handwritten thank you note.
(27:52):
It's the fact that nobody does that.
Nobody takes the 14 seconds or twominutes that it takes to do it.
It just shows you have adifferent level of care.
And I love when you talkedabout high-tech, high-touch.
That is a quote that I've used for years.
Uh, I, I've been a partner with ICEwho, uh, is, is ICE Mortgage Technology.
I spoke at the conference the lasttwo years or three years actually.
(28:13):
And that was always the theme ofthe sessions that I had was, you've
gotta be high tech, high touch.
If you're only hightech, you're in trouble.
If you're only high touch, you're trouble.
You combine the two.
You're right where you need to be withintoday's world because we live in a tech
world, but we live in a world wherepeople have been isolated through covid.
We've seen all of the problemswith that, and people want to
have that personal experience.
(28:34):
And, and the thing I love the most thatyou said was, and this is the biggest
mistake I see in salespeople especially,is they sell price, product and program.
That's so common.
And, and, and I've always said,you saw price, product and program.
You're dead.
You better sell benefits and experience.
That's what you're trying to create and,and that relationship that that sets the
(28:54):
you apart from everybody else where theyconnect with you on a personal level.
So I love how you gave some examplesof that and some key things.
What would you recommend?
So today in today's mortgage arena,and I know you've done some work
there, what would be some thingsthat you would tell lenders?
Here's ways you can create thispersonalized, incredible, super
(29:15):
fan experience that they couldutilize to really take their
businesses to the next level.
Well, I think taking the time to reallyeducate your customer on the front end.
I'm a huge fan of Dave Savageand the total cost analysis
through Mortgage Coach.
Yep.
Because like I know when I boughtmy first house, I was clueless.
All I knew about was the rates, cuzthat was all anybody ever talks about.
(29:38):
And so I didn't really.
I didn't know what I didn't know.
And so making sure you're taking thetime to educate your consumer, especially
if it's a first time home buyer.
But even if it's not a first timehome buyer, things are different.
There are always going tobe different considerations.
People have equity thatthey didn't have last time.
The market looks verydifferent than it did.
There might be different typesof loan, um, you know, options
(30:00):
available to them, obviously.
Yeah, the conforming limits are different.
Like everything is different.
So not just taking it forgranted that somebody knows.
What they want or not just having,like when somebody says, this
is what I want, you are doing adisservice if you don't say, well,
let's talk about why you want that.
Tell me why you thinkthat's what you want.
Awesome.
(30:20):
And starting that conversation.
You know, there's a great Teddy Rooseveltquote "People don't care how much you
know until they know how much you care".
So showcasing at the front end thatyou know you are not just looking
for the fastest solution to them, youare looking for the right solution
because this is going to impactthem for years and maybe decades.
So taking that time tohave the care up front.
(30:41):
Another thing that I think honestlyis just a huge missed opportunity
from my own experience, both with whenI first got my mortgage and then I
refied, um, people like pieced out.
Like I, there was no ongoingcorrespondence and when I first
bought my, the home that we live innow, After it closed and I started
getting all of the notices in themail from other mortgage companies,
(31:05):
I was like, wait, are these real?
Are these not real?
Like they know my loan number.
What is this?
And then when my loan was sold in a coupleof weeks, I was like, What does that mean?
Did I do something wrong?
Like, why is my loan beingserviced by another company now?
Like, what does servicing even mean?
And then it happened again and I waslike, all right, well now I'm just pissed
because now I've lived in this house fortwo months and I've already set up three
(31:28):
different like usernames and passwords.
Like, is this Yeah, keephappening every month.
What does this mean?
And you know, we all know this statisticof, you know, what is it like four and
five people don't go back to their lender?
And I'm like, well, of course theydon't because they don't even know
who it is, they don't rememberbecause they've been through so many
different changes at this point.
They're like, oh, my mortgage company mustbe the name of that company on the bill.
(31:49):
So for any loan originator out there, Iwould say making sure that you establish
yourself at the beginning and thatyou set clear expectations for your
customer, not just through closing day,but what's gonna happen then on after.
And that's why it's kinda likeyou said, Dale, like nobody
writes handwritten notes anymore.
Nobody is creating evergreen content tocontinue to share with your customers.
(32:11):
That's so, if you've got a CRM, use it.
Create the kind of evergreen content thatyou know that you can give to people,
because everybody who gets a home is gonnalike, need information around tax time.
They're gonna need information about likehow to winterize their home if you live
in a cold place or you know what they needto know to like take care of their lawn.
(32:32):
Create the types of content based on theexpertise that you have, and then make it
evergreen, automate it so that you're ableto provide value without adding any work
to your day without like adding more time.
Because when you can do that, you'regonna set yourself apart because you're
setting expectations and then you'reexceeding them by giving your client the
(32:56):
resources they need to be successful ateach stage of their journey post-closing.
Well, the reason I keep grinning, ifyou're wondering why, is because you
just keep saying things that I've beenteaching for so many years and I'm like,
it sounds so refreshing coming from you.
Cause I feel like I'm abroken record on these things.
You, but, but, but you say itso articulately and I love that,
(33:19):
you know, the, the importanceof constantly making sure you're
educating, educating and educating.
I can't tell you how many times I'vetold loan officers your job is education.
That first and foremost, that's thefirst job you have, especially today.
In a world where mortgages arecomplex, people don't understand them.
You assume way too many things.
They understand that they don'tunderstand, and you've gotta
really articulate in a way thatthey really understand what
(33:42):
you're trying to do with them.
And, and I loved when you talkedabout that ongoing connection.
I, I had the, on my last batting athousand, I had a gal that, by the way,
you two remind me a lot of each other,Kara Whitman superstar loan officer, she's
a very powerful lady in the industry.
She's been a, a, a a, scotsman's guideoriginator for the last seven straight
years does over 700 loans a year.
(34:05):
Powerful.
And she said in, in that podcast, Iwanna be the first person they talk to
and I'm gonna be the last person theytalk to because everybody remembers the
first and last experience and I'm gonnastay in contact with them from that
point through the rest of my career.
And it's like, it's such asimple concept, but so few
people do it most, you're right.
Most people peace out, it'slike, I got the sale, I'm done.
(34:27):
I'm outta here.
And the importance of anoriginator, especially to build
that relationship, cuz you're right.
You know, companies are gonna sell thatproduct off many times in secondary market
and there can be two or three servicers,but if the originator did an incredible
job and they maintain that relationship,Even though the customer might be a little
bit upset that that happened, if theyhave a trusted advisor, they can call and
(34:48):
say, Hey, I'm kind of upset about this.
And they go, you know what?
I'm sorry, but they told'em on the front end.
They set those expectations you talkedabout it makes all the difference.
Like remember I toldyou that could happen?
Oh yeah, you did.
You're right.
And they've still got the relationship.
It ain't going anywhere.
When you do that, that that's how you getto the point of being those super fans.
So great stuff.
All right.
Let's talk about theeat exceed expectations.
(35:09):
Tell, tell us what that is in your book.
So exceed expectations is probablymy favorite pillar of the supermodel,
and it's all about what I like tocall intentional experience design.
Mm-hmm.
So I said before, mm-hmm.
We're living in an experience economy.
It's no longer just aboutproducts or services.
It's how does it feel?
What are people saying about you?
(35:31):
So intentional experience designis looking at every phase of your
customer's journey and saying,how do I want them to feel?
And what am I going to doto achieve that objective?
Before, during and after themactually working with me.
And in the book I talk aboutthis idea of slow elevators.
So I was at Lego Land about,about this time last year,
(35:54):
like almost exactly a year ago.
For the first time I was stayingat the Lego Land Resort in Florida.
And my two sons at the time were twoand four, and we were staying on the
fifth floor of the Lego Land Hotel,which is right next to the theme park.
And my kids just loved this elevator.
There were floor to ceiling decalsof like dancing Lego mini figs.
(36:16):
There was a mirrorball, there were lights.
Every time the door closed it wouldplay like dancing Queen or uh oh fun.
Skin alive.
Like all this disco music.
It was a party and because it was a smallelevator, it was one family at a time.
So my kids were just likedancing their heads off, right?
Like having the best.
Time.
They looked forward to that elevator.
(36:37):
They wanted to ride in itagain and again and again.
It was not until at least thethird day of staying in that resort
Dale, that I realized that was theslowest elevator I had ever been on.
And like, not metaphorically speaking,because I was tired of the dance party.
Like literally it took like two anda half minutes to get from the lobby
(36:59):
to the fifth floor with no stops.
Wow.
Like the whole song Dancing Queen wouldplay like it was so slow, but I didn't
even notice it for the first like15 times that I was on the elevator.
And then once I noticed it, it didn't.
Bother me because they had taken that slowelevator and turned it into an experience.
(37:23):
It was a disco dance party thatwasn't, you know it, I didn't
mind waiting for it, and I didn'tmind being in there a long time.
And I tell this story, and I thinkit's particularly relevant to this idea
of creating experiences and see andexceeding expectations because, you know,
There's like not a lot traditionallythat you look for in an elevator, right?
(37:45):
And like, is it like safety and speed?
That's it, right?
Like, are you gonna get me where I'mgoing and how fast can you get me there?
So at the Lego Land Resort, they didnot say like, we're gonna just throw
our hands up in the air because wecan't make the elevator go faster.
And like, oh, it's a slow elevator.
That sucks.
Too bad.
They said, we are going toturn this into an experience.
(38:07):
Experience right now.
Every single originator listeningto this, everyone working in the
financial services industry, I promiseyou there are slow elevators for your
customers and it is not your job tobe like, well, elevators are slow.
Sometimes I can't fix that.
It is your job to say, how canI take those slow elevators
(38:27):
and take the sting away?
How can I make them feellike a disco dance party?
Like maybe I can't make themgo faster, but I can still.
Impact that experience.
And if you take that approach, ifyou take that customer centricity
and that attention to detail to say,how can I intentionally architect
and experience that you're going toenjoy and remember, I promise you,
(38:50):
you're going to have customers whocome back and tell their friends.
I love that.
That, that's a great analogy.
I'm thinking of myself in anelevator that takes two and a
half minutes to go five floors.
I'd be hitting buttons,I'd be freaking out.
I'd be thinking, we're jammed in thisthing, especially a small elevator and.
They completed an experience thatjust, you never thought about it.
(39:12):
Three days, it took you to figure it out.
That's a really cool story, andyou're right, there's, you know,
there are troubles that happen inmortgages a lot and you've gotta
bring a really great experience tooffset that with your customers.
Even the application, nobodylikes taking an application out.
There's not a customer on theplanet that says, yeah, I can't
wait to take an application.
They hate the process.
You know what?
I like more paperwork.
(39:34):
That's right.
Whatever's exactly what I want.
I, I wanna, I wanna spend 35 minuteson the phone with some stranger to
fill out all of the details of my life.
Nobody wants to do thatunless the person makes it.
Fun.
Makes it an experience,makes it relational, makes it
collaborative, makes it interactive.
All of those things become important.
That's a great point inthe mortgage business.
(39:54):
So let's, let's, let's move toyour final of the super, the repeat
at the end because I, I have a, aclosing question I want to ask you
that I ask all my guests, but tellme about the R in super for repeat.
So, the R in super is there to signify.
That customer experience isnot a set it and forget it.
Like this is not a, I'm gonna solve thisproblem one time and be done forever.
(40:16):
It is a day out, or excuse me, dayin, day out obsession with creating
amazing experiences for your customers.
There's a quote that I lovethat I have in the book.
From Elizabeth Arden, uh, when shewas building her makeup empire, she
said, repetition makes reputationand reputation makes customers, and
it's the exact same for everybody.
(40:37):
I don't care how new or how old, howbig or how small your business is,
repetition is what makes reputationand reputation is what makes customers.
So you've got to do everythingI talk about in the supermodel
and you've got to repeat it.
You've gotta do it again and again.
Transaction after transaction, customerafter customer year after year, to develop
that reputation that makes people say,I am a super fan of that originator,
(41:02):
or I am a super fan of that branchfor that business, and I will be back.
Awesome.
So we have thousands ofpeople who watch this podcast.
Every one of them needs to buy your book.
Where, where would they go to do that?
How do they connect with you?
Uh, I know, uh, a lot of our clientsprobably would love to speak to you about
(41:23):
maybe speaking at one of their events.
Tell tell us a little bit aboutthat and well, how you do that.
Well, thank you.
I would say I would loveto speak at your event.
Uh, I, my email addressis brittany@brittanyhodak.com.
You can find all of the informationabout my speaking and everything
else that I do at britneyhodak.com,and for anyone who's interested in
buying the book, it's available in abeautiful, full color hardcover version.
(41:46):
You can also get it as an e-bookor as an audiobook that I narrate,
and all of those are an Amazon.
You can also find the hardcover whereverbooks are sold, so if you wanna support
your favorite local bookstore or achain like Barnes Noble or Books a
Million, they're available everywhere.
Books are sold.
Awesome.
Highly recommend it.
All right.
Let me, let me ask you the final question.
(42:07):
I could talk for hours with you.
I'm, I'm sad we only have an hourtogether because this is so interesting.
You have given us somany great nuggets today.
Brittany, I can't thankyou enough for that.
Here's the question I ask everybody.
I, I'm, I'm a firm believer thatto succeed in life and to succeed,
certainly in business, you need mentors.
You need people that.
Can mentor you and coachyou and help you get there.
(42:27):
And you know, today one of the problemsthat I see in this, I can't understand
this, is I see a lot of people whodon't want to take advice or wisdom from
people who've been down that road, doneit before, and can help them to avoid
a lot of problems and a lot of issues.
And you know, I'm sureyou were the same way.
I was the same way.
Jake, my son, who, youknow, runs this thing.
(42:48):
He's like this.
When he was a kid, he'd, he'd sit onthe grandpa's lap instead of going,
playing with the kids cuz he wanted tohear and learn and grow and be mentored.
So tell us about any mentors you'vehad in your life and what that
meant to you and how that helpedyou get you where you are today.
Yeah.
Well, I would say the first mentorI had and, and the most incredible
one ever, my life was my dad, Jody.
(43:09):
Nice.
Uh, he worked in customer service.
I think it was his influence that mademe sort of fall in love with the idea
of customer service and what that meant.
Um, he managed a Long JohnSilvers restaurant when I was a
kid, and then he worked at a cardealership as their customer service
manager, and I loved hearing his.
Stories, hear 'em talk about likeall of the things that he did to
(43:31):
over-deliver for his customersand to, to get them to come back.
Um, I, I just thought it was so neat someof the things that, that he implemented.
Um, and so I would say my dad was, was myfirst investment mentor and then lovely.
You know, I've been so lucky to haveso many incredible mentors who've
become friends in the, in this.
Speaking industry in thecustomer experience industry.
(43:52):
One of them is Shep Hyken,who is just brilliant.
Yeah.
And he's been talking aboutcustomer experience and customer
service for a very, very long time.
He was kind enough to writethe forward to my book.
Uh, it's actually a I saw that.
Yeah.
Story in the Forward.
He talks about the world's oldestknown customer complaint letter that
goes back almost 4,000 years, whatthat means and how it was resolved.
(44:13):
So that's a really fun story.
Um, but he's just been incrediblygracious and kind with me to help me
sort of understand all of the, um, youknow, all of the moving parts around this
new career that, that I've embarked onspeaking and writing and teaching people
to, to embrace customer centricity ina way that perhaps they've not thought
about before or not been given the toolsto really, um, succeed with before.
(44:37):
Awesome.
Well, Brittany, I cannot thank youenough for coming on our, our show.
I know you're super busy andthere's a lot of people that, that,
that would love to have you on.
I'm honored that you joined us.
It's fun to be with you again.
Really enjoyed hearing you speak,uh, down in Southern California
and getting to meet you.
That was really a delight.
And, uh, I, I hope we can have youback for season three again and
(44:58):
continue this conversation cuz there'sso many questions I wanted to ask.
I couldn't even get to, uh, for sake oftime, but you knocked it out of the park,
uh, to use a, a batting a thousand phrase.
And we really appreciate you so much.
Thanks for being here.
Well, thank you Dale for having me.
It was, An honor, the pleasure was allmine and I would love to come back for
season, season three and talk even moreabout my very favorite subject in the
(45:20):
world, which is creating super fans,which you're very good at, by the way.
Well, thank you Brittany.
Thanks again everybody.
Thanks for being here foranother Batting a Thousand.
I know you got a lot outta this andenjoyed it and uh, we appreciate
you and God bless everybody.
Have a great day.
All right.
Hello everybody, and welcome to Battinga thousand where we talk with the big
hitters, uh, in business and uh, in thefinancial services and mortgage industry.
And man, today I've got a incredibleguest that I'm so excited to,
uh, to have with me today.
Uh, Brittany Hodak.
I had the great privilege tomeet Britney for the first time.
Uh, about, uh, a month and a halfago, we did a speaking engagement
(00:28):
together, um, for a client, uh, downin Southern California, PRMG , uh,
uh, who's both a client of bothof ours and good friends of ours.
And, I was, you know, I, Ihad the bad position of having
to speak after Brittney.
That was not an enviable positionto be in, cuz she knocked
it outta the park with her.
Uh, her talk about creating super fans,which is from her book that is just
(00:50):
doing, uh, incredible, uh, one thatwe recommend to everybody out there.
And I, I'm gonna give you just a, acouple of quick credentials about her.
But first, Britney, welcome.
We're so glad to have youon Batting a thousand.
Thank you, Dale.
I am so thrilled to be here.
I was honored that we got to meet eachother and that I got to pick up some
amazing tips watching you speak at thePRMG event, and so I was thrilled when
(01:11):
you invited me to be on this show, and I'mreally excited for our conversation today.
Well, I am too.
So just so the audience knows a littlebit more about you, um, I, I was just
mentioning to you when, when I sawyour credentials, my, my jaw hit the
floor because you've done some things.
You are an award-winning entrepreneur.
You're an award-winning author.
You're award-winning at customerexperience and, and helping people
(01:32):
with that as a consultant and aspeaker and all of those things.
You've done keynotes across theglobe, including American Express,
the United Nations I wannahear about that one for sure.
What that had to be like.
Um, and you've worked with some of theworld's biggest brands and entertainers.
Walmart, Disney, Katy Perry, Dolly Parton.
Um, Amazing.
You also founded and scaled Entertainmentstartup, uh, to an eight figure, uh,
(01:54):
setting before exiting that you werethe former Chief Experience officer
for experience.com, uh, where we havefriends over there that we, we love
working with and Forbes said, if youhave customers, you need this book.
Period.
I don't think theycould've said it better.
Creating superfans isreally making a splash.
I see your book everywhere.
Uh, I love that.
(02:14):
Um, I got a chance to kind of hearthe book firsthand, which is good,
and we're gonna talk about that book.
But let, let's just start with, talkabout how you got where you're at today.
Tell us a little bit moreabout your background.
Just share with us how you got towork with some of these incredible
companies and people across thenation and across the world.
Sure.
Well, I grew up in a small town inOklahoma and loved the radio because
(02:38):
that was, you know, sort of pre-internet.
That was the outlet to the outsideworld, right outside of this
tiny little town where I livedand when I was in high school.
School, I had the opportunity to gospend a day at the radio station.
They had this thing called job shadowing.
When you know, it was basicallylike a one day internship.
You would pick what you wanted todo and then go spend a day there.
And during that day Iwas like, please hire me.
(03:01):
I will take any job you have.
I just, I have to work here.
Please, please, please gimme a job.
And the station manager said, well,you look like you're about the right
height for the mascot suit, how doyou feel about being sting the bee?
And I said, that sounds amazing.
I would love to be sting the bee.
Please, please, please give me a job.
And so for the next several monthsI was sting the bee, this radio
(03:25):
station mascot who got to go toevery, you know, car dealership sale
and furniture store, grand opening.
And so I was doing that.
I was sophomore, junior in high schooland one day after about six months, I
came into work and the station managersaid, you know, I keep seeing ads on
TV for this movie called Bridget JonesDiary, and my maiden name was Jones.
(03:49):
And so she said, we've got a Britney Jonesand it feels like we should do something
along this like Bridget Jones diary thing.
What could we do and call it your diary?
And I said, well, you're alwaystrying to get more people to you
know, go to the radio station website.
What if I just interviewed all the bandsthat came to town And that was my diary.
You know, like what happened when Britneywas hanging out backstage with this band?
(04:11):
And she said, oh, like that othermovie, that almost famous movie.
Yeah, everyone's talking about that.
That's probably gonna win some Oscars.
Let's do it.
Just make a list of all thebands you wanna see and we'll
set it up with the record labels.
And I said, are you kidding?
Like, what?
And she said, you know, HTML, right?
And I was like, of course I know.
(04:32):
Them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yes.
And so I'm like desperately tryingto remember those four letters
so that I can figure out what inthe world it is and teach myself.
So as like a 16 or seven year teenyear old kid, it became my job
to hang out with rock stars andbrag about it on the internet.
Like that was literally what peoplegave me money to do, which ruined
(04:54):
any chances of me ever having a,you know, quote unquote real job.
So that was my start.
That was my start in theentertainment industry.
I took it so seriously.
I was like, I'm a journalist, like I, youknow, am, am a entertainment reporter.
And so I did everything I could.
I hustled to meet everybody I could tomake every connection, introduction.
(05:15):
I was begging for internships, um, beggingat like every time I met somebody who
was connected to a labels headquartersin New York or LA I was like, can I
come intern for you when I'm in college?
Like, let's stay in touch.
So I just hustled my waythrough high school and college.
Then when I graduated,I moved to New York.
I worked for Warner Music Group.
(05:35):
I worked for Sony Music Group.
Um, and then I had, I had this ideaof creating this product that was
like a collectible for music fans.
When an album came out, whether itwas on CD or vinyl, I was like, what
if there was a way to have a packagethat physically was as immersive
(05:56):
of an experience as the music?
And so I started learningabout specialty packaging.
I started looking for ways.
To like make all these cool collectibles.
And I eventually started myown company when I was 27.
After a few years of working for differentlabels and agencies, I launched my
first company and the very first clientthat I worked with, and the very first
client that I pitched was Walmart.
(06:17):
And so with Walmart as my partner, I wasable to get a lot of people to answer my
phone calls that probably wouldn't haveotherwise done so and so I started an
entertainment agency from the ground upand got to work with many of the largest
entertainers and brands on the planetover the, you know, decade that followed.
(06:38):
That is just such a cool story,and I love that here you are
a 27 year old entrepreneur.
And you just started small with Walmart?
Yeah, I was kinda like, I didn't know.
I didn't know what I didn't know.
Like I didn't know how crazy that wasbecause to me, Walmart was just another
entertainment account and it made sensebecause I thought, well, if this is
(06:58):
gonna work, I'm gonna need this scale.
So rather than try to sell this into a bunch of accounts, like 300
stores here, 500 stores there like.
Let's just ask Walmart, and they'vegot 4,000 stores, so if they say yes,
then everything is that much easier.
And so I didn't know about thepercentage of businesses that fail.
I didn't know how hard it wasto be a female founded, you
(07:21):
know, company with no capital.
I, I just didn't know whatI didn't know and that, that
really worked to my advantage.
And then several years, probably fouror five years into the company, I had
been very fortunate to get a lot ofaccolades, won a lot of awards because
of the scale and the volume that wewere doing without any outside funding.
(07:42):
And so I got a call one day froma casting producer who said,
Hey, I read about you in Forbes.
I think your story's really cool.
Do you wanna come on Shark Tank?
And I said, yeah, that sounds like fun.
I, let's do it.
And so I went on Shark Tank, whichled to a lot of other really cool
opportunities that I never could have.
You know, even dreamed of, wow.
(08:03):
Working in other verticals like sportsand Hollywood, and I started to get
a ton of speaking requests, whichis what sort of catapulted me into
this new phase of my career that I'vebeen doing for the past five or six
years, which is speaking and writing.
And again, something thatI never would've even.
Thought of as a potential career path,but it's been, it's been so fun and so
(08:26):
neat to, to get, to take everything thatI've learned in the entertainment industry
and showcase the fact that that's reallyjust customer experience under a different
name and all the same things that helppeople have success in the entertainment
industry can really separate people.
From other businesses or othersalespeople in commodity markets.
(08:48):
So taking some of the, you know,razzle-dazzle and some of the principles
from the world of entertainment andputting them into place for, you know,
creating amazing customer experiences.
I love it.
So, um, let's fast forward now that youare now the author of Creating Super Fans.
I wanna get to that for a minute, butyou said something I want to key in
(09:09):
on for a second that, um, I thoughtwas just an absolute golden nugget.
You talked about the whole Ididn't know what I didn't know.
And, and, and it's funny because, youknow, in the mortgage arena where, where
I work all the time, especially now in a,in a higher rate market, tougher market.
I see a lot of people who failbecause they know too much.
(09:31):
And the ones that tend to succeed,don't I, I think about my own career.
When I started in the mortgage business in1983 , 40 years ago, and I, I came out of,
you know, construction into selling potsand pans, door to door into being a loan
officer, and my first district managercame to my office on the first day.
I came there and I said, Mr.
Finn, what do you expect me to do?
(09:52):
He said, you better do 20loans a month, or we fire you.
And I thought, Okay.
I didn't know any difference.
So the first month I, I closed 17 loansand thought I was gonna get fired.
He came in, he said, I'mgonna give you one more month.
So I said, I promise.
I hit 23.
I hit 24 the next month.
Got to 28 the third month.
And, and then I've come to find outin the third month, all everybody
else is doing two and three cuz I wasthe only loan officer in the branch.
(10:14):
And, and when people say, well,how did you do 23, 28 when
everybody was doing three?
I said, because I didn'tknow what I didn't know.
I was told to do 20 or I was fired.
So I just, I didn't know any better.
And sometimes that naive actuallyworks to our benefit in business.
When we just go in with freshenedideas, we don't think too
much, we don't overthink it.
(10:35):
We just literally try to do ourbest and give the best foot forward.
So in that vein, let's talkabout creating super fans.
Let's talk about your book, because look,first off anybody who's watching this, if
you want a great speaker, hire Brittany.
She's fantastic.
Um, Our friends of PRMG andKevin Perio, KP, who we both love.
Good friend of both of ours.
I know he would attest to that too.
Um, You really did a great job on that.
(10:57):
But I wanna talk about the super fan idea.
What, what, how you think, why you thinkthis is important, um, how mortgage
lenders can really create super fans.
And walk us through, I love the,when you laid out your acrostic
of super and what that stood for.
I just thought it was a great templatefor any company to understand the
importance and in today's competitivemarket, creating super fans has
(11:19):
never been more important in my book.
So tell us a little bit more about that.
Well, thank you Dale for all of that.
I will say, so in the entertainmentindustry, one of the things that people
spend endless amounts of resources onmoney, time, um, is, is this idea of
breaking new artists, helping somebody,you know, explode in popularity.
(11:42):
And I think that there are just somany parallels to, like, you as that
new agent who had no idea how manyloans you were supposed to be closing.
It's like you've just, you'vejust gotta, that's break through.
That's, and a lot of times when Italk to people, whether they've worked
in the financial services industryfor a couple of years or a couple
of decades, one of the things thatthey talk about is this idea of.
(12:06):
I need more awareness.
I need more people to knowwho I am, to know what I do.
Yeah, like I've got an awareness problem.
If I could just spend more money or if Icould just come up with better advertising
and almost a hundred percent of the time,it is not an awareness problem at all.
Plenty of people know.
They just don't care because youhaven't given them a reason to.
(12:27):
You haven't shown them why youare different from everybody else.
It's not an awareness problem.
It's an apathy problem, which is exactlythe same in the music industry, right?
It's like, yeah, you and everyoneelse in the world have a new single,
unless I, in 10 seconds can tell whyI should care because of what's in it.
For me, it's just background noise.
(12:49):
It's just like, yeah, okay.
You'll go into the consideration setand so when you understand that what
you're trying to overpower is apathy,that you've got to come up with a hook
to make people care to connect yourthing to their life in a way that says,
this is why you need to know who I am.
This is how I am adding value to you.
(13:10):
And by paying attention to me,your life gets better in some
meaningful, measurable way.
That is not the ceiling, that is thefloor, that is the cost of entry.
If you wanna go from a commodity providerto a category of one in the minds of
your partners and your prospects andyour customers, you've gotta be able
(13:31):
to tell them what's in it for them.
Why should they care?
Why does it matter?
How are you different and betterthan everyone else who does
exactly the same thing that you do?
And when you approach itwith that mentality, then
you can start to say, okay.
What am I the best in the world at?
Or what do I wanna bethe best in the world at?
What am I willing to commit myselfto working toward, to be able to say,
(13:55):
when you work with me, this is whatyou get and this is why it matters.
And when you have that mindset, thenyou can start to think about creating a.
Super fans, but until then it's, you know,like one of the first things I always ask
people is, why do you deserve superfans?
What are you doing?
And I define a superfan as acustomer who creates more customers.
It's someone who has such a greatexperience with you that they're going
(14:17):
to become an enthusiastic advocate.
They'll be back and they'llbe telling their friends.
And if you can't answer that firstquestion, if you can't answer, Why you
deserve superfans, why somebody shouldpay attention to what you're doing and
give you their business as the exclusionof everyone else who's out there
fighting for it, then that's a problem.
Like you are going to have a very hardtime separating yourself from the pack.
(14:41):
So that's the first part, is figuring outwhat are you the best in the world at?
Or what do you want to bethe best in the world at?
And why does that matter to thepeople who you're trying to serve?
Uh, you, you just droppedso many incredible bombs
there that were so powerful.
I love that.
Just a bunch of golden nuggets here.
(15:01):
So let me, let me unpack a couple ofthose if I can with you for just a
minute, because I, I, I love how youtalk first about that first 10 seconds.
You know, I, I, I knew when I listenedto you speak, I'm like, yep, Brittney,
I are th we think the same exact wayabout business because one thing that
I've harped on forever with everyclient, every lender, every loan
officer, every person I've ever workedwith is, if you don't wow 'em in the
(15:23):
first 10 to 15 seconds, forget it.
The game's over it.
It's, it's done after that.
And you do that, and Ilove how you said this.
You do that by showing them what makes youdifferent, but not from a perspective of.
Talking about yourself, butwhat makes you different in how
you're gonna change their life.
(15:43):
That's the key to even starting theprocess to get somebody to want to be a
super fan for you, because you're right,everybody, we, you talked about radio
stations was your first experience.
I've done hundreds and hundreds of radioprograms across the country and I, I've
been in studio many, many times, and.
Everybody listens tothe same radio station.
What's in it for me?
WIIFM , It's all the same one.
(16:04):
And, and you really articulated that well,you know, we, we teach a, a very simple
philosophy in, at Mortgage Champions onthe front end of every call with every
customer, no matter what that call is,or every partner, you start with what
we call the million dollar minute.
You, you begin by, by tellingthem in one minute or less.
Why they would choose you, what makesyou special, what makes you great,
(16:26):
and more importantly, what are thefive things you're gonna do for them
that nobody else has done for them?
And you've got their attentioninstantly, and now you can move to that.
So I love how you articulate it.
Now that I does that stand for thefirst s in Super, which is your, your
acrostic, which is start with your story.
Cause I know you talk aboutstory, know your business
story, know your personal story.
(16:47):
You talk about that a lot in your book.
Is that, is that kindof the setup for that?
It is and it isn't.
So, um, start with your story.
When I say start with your story,I don't mean lead with your story.
I mean that everything hasto originate from your story.
So yes.
Good.
I think the first part is reallyunderstanding, you know, the enemy
(17:07):
and, and that the enemy is apathy.
People are so busy, they'vegot so much going on.
There is a lot to care about.
And so I think that's good.
The first part is understanding thatyour job is to make someone care
about you, to interrupt their day,to interrupt what they're doing.
To say, this is why you should careabout me and not think of me as just one
(17:28):
of several people in your considerationset or several solutions providers.
Even if there are other, you know,mortgage professionals that you
work with, I am not like them.
Like one of these thingsis not like the other.
So yes, understanding that that'sthe goal leads right in to the first
pillar of the supermodel framework,which is start with your story.
And I like to describe thepillars of this framework.
(17:51):
Almost like nesting dolls, every singleone of them builds on the one before.
So starting with your story, understandingyour uniqueness in a way that is very.
Um, relevant to the customer thatyou're trying to reach, understanding
that it's not your job to apply toeveryone, to to appeal to everyone.
(18:12):
It's your job to createa uniqueness and ex.
Exploit that uniqueness in a waythat's going to be irresistible to
those target customers who you wantand forget about everybody else.
Like you don't wanna work with everybody.
You wanna work with the right people.
So starting with your story gives youthat north star of what you're gonna talk
(18:33):
about, what you're gonna share to attractmore of that ideal customer avatar.
Okay, so again, I'm lovingthis interview by the way.
I, I mentioned to you earlier,and I gotta mention to the, to the
audience, uh, Britney's, my firstguest out of our, our new cabin studio.
So it's fun to have you as a kindof the, the, the entree to that.
But I'm loving what you'resaying because you said two
(18:54):
things that are really important.
First off, apathy huge.
You know, in the, in the mortgageindustry, statistically, a customer
today who inquires for a mortgagefrom the time they inquire till
the time they actually fund a loan.
Somewhere between 100 and 200 timesthey'll be contacted by different lenders.
That's a staggering statistic.
I mean, you've got, you've got emailmarketing, you've got cell phone,
(19:16):
smartphone marketing, you've got socialmedia marketing, credit triggers.
All these things are coming after thesecustomers, so, You've got to be able
to cut through all of that pressure,that competitive pressure where yes,
they are apathetic at this point tolike, why would I spend one second
with you unless you say somethingthat captures my interests about me?
(19:38):
And the other thing you talked aboutwas really knowing your customers.
One of the, the common mistakes Ifind a lot, particularly in the, we
call the retail side of the mortgagearena, is we're loan officers who
work with realtors, for example.
They don't understand the conceptof, you've gotta work with
people that are like-minded.
They're like, I'll work with anyrealtor that'll send me business.
No, there's realtors that'll send youbusiness that are, that business is no
(20:00):
good, and you'll waste your time workingon a bunch of things that never lead to
any true business at the end of the day.
And you're never gonnacreate super fans doing that.
So you have to know about their business.
You have to understand and researchthem in advance of your conversation.
So when you start that conversationof differentiation is, Hey, I've,
I've done my homework on you.
(20:21):
Here's all the things that you're doingthat I'm just admire and I wanna tell you
things that we're doing that I think willeven help you get to that next level.
And now you're merging the twostories together instantly into one.
Does that make sense from the way thatyou think about building super fans?
Oh, absolutely.
And I always say that super fansare created at the intersection of
your story and every customer story.
So that Venn diagram of who you are.
(20:43):
Who the realtor is, where that overlaps.
And yes, you should absolutely be aligningyourself with people who understand
the type of customer you want, whowant a very similar type of customer.
And understanding your customeris actually the second pillar
of the supermodel framework.
I said that, you know, they're,they're all kind of like nesting dolls.
They all build on the one before.
And understanding your customerstory is about that clarity.
(21:07):
Who do you wanna work with?
What are they struggling with?
What's the transformation thatyou can really help them with?
Why are you the right person?
Like why should they, you know,choose you over all of the
other options that they have?
So in the book, I talk about how to getfurther clarity on that and one of the
things that, um, I think is, is likereally relevant to the, the way that
(21:31):
people approach understanding customers.
Um, I tell the story in the book ofthe first time I saw one of my teachers
outside of school and I think a lot ofpeople like, remember that moment of
the first time you've seen a teacher atoutside school and you're like, what?
And it sort of breaks your littlebrain a little bit because you've
never thought about that teacheras existing outside of school.
(21:55):
Or at least I hadn't.
Right.
Like I Right, right.
You could've been like a,like a hologram for all.
I knew that like never left thatclassroom cuz I just never thought
about it and so many people.
Especially in mortgage, don't think aboutwho their customers fully are as people.
They're just like, oh,it's another loan number.
Rinse, repeat.
Oh, it's another lead.
Let me call and then call the next one.
(22:16):
But if you take the time to trulyunderstand your customer story, get
to know who they are, get to know whatthey're struggling with, what they
don't understand about this process,you can show up for them in a way that
makes you relevant to their whole life.
Like not just that mortgage that you'rehelping with them with, but to become
a true partner to say, all right, youknow, even after this loan is funded,
(22:40):
like even after you've closed, I'mgonna still be here with you because
you're gonna need somebody to, youknow, refer an electrician or refer a
painter or refer, you know, a gardener.
And I want you to think of me andkeeping that relationship alive.
So of course that you get thereferrals, you get the repeat
business, but that all starts with.
Letting your customers see thatlike 3D fully formed version of you.
(23:05):
Not just like, hi, I'm so-and-so fromx, Y, Z company here to help you with
your loan and understanding who they areas a fully formed person, not just like
that customer on the other side of thatemail address that you bought as a lead.
That's awesome.
Awesome, awesome, awesome.
All right, so start with your story.
Understand your customer story.
(23:27):
The P is for personalized.
I cannot wait for you to talk about thisbecause I think this is such a center.
I love that it's in the middle of supercuz it seems to me like the center of
all success, as I've seen it in my 40year career, is the more you personalize,
the more you build relationship, themore you connect the, the more you
can make things completely unique anddifferent and custom to the person
(23:51):
or the company you're working with.
The more you really start to createthose fans are like, whoa, whoa.
And, and, and I love some of theexamples you used when you were
speaking, um, you know, and, andtalked about so many companies
that are really good at doing that.
Share a little bit about what it meansto personalize the P in your super.
So I said before that super fansare created at the intersection
(24:11):
of your story In there is.
P is Personalize is where that allcomes together, where those two
worlds collide your world and theirs.
By understanding both of your stories,you'll start to have all of those aha
moments about the overlaps, the thingsthat you can do to feel different, to
make it appear that working with youis easier and better than working with
(24:33):
anyone else out there in the world.
And personalization takes a lot of forms.
There's, there's hightouch, there's high tech.
I'm a believer that you need both.
I was on a flight the other day,uh, flying United, and I was
connecting through chicago, I think.
Yeah, it was Chicago.
And when I landed and I turned myphone back on, the first message
(24:54):
that I had was a text from Unitedsaying, welcome to Chicago.
You are landing in this gate.
Your next flight to Atlanta is gonnaleave in an hour and 16 minutes.
It's gonna take you 14 minutes to walkfrom the gate where you're landing
to the gate, where you're going.
If you want step by step directions,touch here for a terminal map.
And I thought, wow, what anamazing example of highly relevant.
(25:16):
Personalized information, the rightperson, the right time, the right message.
And when you can dothat, you make an impact.
You add tremendous value.
Now, there are ways to create the senseof personalization without actually
knowing who your customer is in that sameairport as I was walking by, I noticed.
That all of the restrooms had LED screensoutside showing how many stalls were open
(25:41):
and how many minutes of a walk in bothdirections it was to the next restroom.
So as somebody who's walking by,that's really great information, right?
Are there four open stallsor are there 14 open stalls?
The next room, two minutes away, or 12minutes away, like that is very helpful
information at that moment in time.
So use technology, leverage the technologythat you have access to, to create the
(26:05):
types of touchpoints that are going towow your customers because customers
aren't just comparing you to the bestexperience they've had getting a loan.
They're comparing you to the bestexperience they've had anywhere, period.
Or living in an experienced economy.
It's no longer about just what isyour product or what is the service.
All of the, uh, all of theexperiences are fair game.
(26:28):
Like in a world where we know whereour pizza is before it's delivered,
or how many stops away our Amazonpackages, we expect that same
attention to detail and level ofpersonalization and customization.
Now I said it's not allhigh tech or high touch.
Another example of personalization thatI love is when I go and pick up, uh,
(26:48):
an iced tea cuz I'm an iced tea drinkerand the barista writes a little message
for me on the cup or puts a message onthe napkin when I'm gonna pick it up.
There are things that you can do toshow your customer that you're treating
them not the way you treat every.
Customer, but you're treatingthem as an individual.
You're being authentic to yourself,but you're also honoring the way
(27:09):
they want to be treated for those twoworlds of yours and theirs to collide.
Fantastic.
Loved everything you just coveredin that, that was gold again.
Um, and, and you're absolutely right.
You know, the little things,uh, Harvey McKay had a quote
years ago that I was loved.
He said, little thingsdon't mean everything.
Little things mean ordon't mean, uh, a lot.
(27:31):
They mean everything and they really do.
The little things are the thingsthat that customers remember forever.
You know that little note on the napkin?
I, I've said for 40 years, and thisis old school, but if you're not
sending a handwritten thank you noteto your customers, you're missing a
golden opportunity to connect withthem because nobody does that anymore.
It's not any longer that it's aboutthe handwritten thank you note.
(27:52):
It's the fact that nobody does that.
Nobody takes the 14 seconds or twominutes that it takes to do it.
It just shows you have adifferent level of care.
And I love when you talkedabout high-tech, high-touch.
That is a quote that I've used for years.
Uh, I, I've been a partner with ICEwho, uh, is, is ICE Mortgage Technology.
I spoke at the conference the lasttwo years or three years actually.
(28:13):
And that was always the theme ofthe sessions that I had was, you've
gotta be high tech, high touch.
If you're only hightech, you're in trouble.
If you're only high touch, you're trouble.
You combine the two.
You're right where you need to be withintoday's world because we live in a tech
world, but we live in a world wherepeople have been isolated through covid.
We've seen all of the problemswith that, and people want to
have that personal experience.
(28:34):
And, and the thing I love the most thatyou said was, and this is the biggest
mistake I see in salespeople especially,is they sell price, product and program.
That's so common.
And, and, and I've always said,you saw price, product and program.
You're dead.
You better sell benefits and experience.
That's what you're trying to create and,and that relationship that that sets the
(28:54):
you apart from everybody else where theyconnect with you on a personal level.
So I love how you gave some examplesof that and some key things.
What would you recommend?
So today in today's mortgage arena,and I know you've done some work
there, what would be some thingsthat you would tell lenders?
Here's ways you can create thispersonalized, incredible, super
(29:15):
fan experience that they couldutilize to really take their
businesses to the next level.
Well, I think taking the time to reallyeducate your customer on the front end.
I'm a huge fan of Dave Savageand the total cost analysis
through Mortgage Coach.
Yep.
Because like I know when I boughtmy first house, I was clueless.
All I knew about was the rates, cuzthat was all anybody ever talks about.
(29:38):
And so I didn't really.
I didn't know what I didn't know.
And so making sure you're taking thetime to educate your consumer, especially
if it's a first time home buyer.
But even if it's not a first timehome buyer, things are different.
There are always going tobe different considerations.
People have equity thatthey didn't have last time.
The market looks verydifferent than it did.
There might be different typesof loan, um, you know, options
(30:00):
available to them, obviously.
Yeah, the conforming limits are different.
Like everything is different.
So not just taking it forgranted that somebody knows.
What they want or not just having,like when somebody says, this
is what I want, you are doing adisservice if you don't say, well,
let's talk about why you want that.
Tell me why you thinkthat's what you want.
Awesome.
(30:20):
And starting that conversation.
You know, there's a great Teddy Rooseveltquote "People don't care how much you
know until they know how much you care".
So showcasing at the front end thatyou know you are not just looking
for the fastest solution to them, youare looking for the right solution
because this is going to impactthem for years and maybe decades.
So taking that time tohave the care up front.
(30:41):
Another thing that I think honestlyis just a huge missed opportunity
from my own experience, both with whenI first got my mortgage and then I
refied, um, people like pieced out.
Like I, there was no ongoingcorrespondence and when I first
bought my, the home that we live innow, After it closed and I started
getting all of the notices in themail from other mortgage companies,
(31:05):
I was like, wait, are these real?
Are these not real?
Like they know my loan number.
What is this?
And then when my loan was sold in a coupleof weeks, I was like, What does that mean?
Did I do something wrong?
Like, why is my loan beingserviced by another company now?
Like, what does servicing even mean?
And then it happened again and I waslike, all right, well now I'm just pissed
because now I've lived in this house fortwo months and I've already set up three
(31:28):
different like usernames and passwords.
Like, is this Yeah, keephappening every month.
What does this mean?
And you know, we all know this statisticof, you know, what is it like four and
five people don't go back to their lender?
And I'm like, well, of course theydon't because they don't even know
who it is, they don't rememberbecause they've been through so many
different changes at this point.
They're like, oh, my mortgage company mustbe the name of that company on the bill.
(31:49):
So for any loan originator out there, Iwould say making sure that you establish
yourself at the beginning and thatyou set clear expectations for your
customer, not just through closing day,but what's gonna happen then on after.
And that's why it's kinda likeyou said, Dale, like nobody
writes handwritten notes anymore.
Nobody is creating evergreen content tocontinue to share with your customers.
(32:11):
That's so, if you've got a CRM, use it.
Create the kind of evergreen content thatyou know that you can give to people,
because everybody who gets a home is gonnalike, need information around tax time.
They're gonna need information about likehow to winterize their home if you live
in a cold place or you know what they needto know to like take care of their lawn.
(32:32):
Create the types of content based on theexpertise that you have, and then make it
evergreen, automate it so that you're ableto provide value without adding any work
to your day without like adding more time.
Because when you can do that, you'regonna set yourself apart because you're
setting expectations and then you'reexceeding them by giving your client the
(32:56):
resources they need to be successful ateach stage of their journey post-closing.
Well, the reason I keep grinning, ifyou're wondering why, is because you
just keep saying things that I've beenteaching for so many years and I'm like,
it sounds so refreshing coming from you.
Cause I feel like I'm abroken record on these things.
You, but, but, but you say itso articulately and I love that,
(33:19):
you know, the, the importanceof constantly making sure you're
educating, educating and educating.
I can't tell you how many times I'vetold loan officers your job is education.
That first and foremost, that's thefirst job you have, especially today.
In a world where mortgages arecomplex, people don't understand them.
You assume way too many things.
They understand that they don'tunderstand, and you've gotta
really articulate in a way thatthey really understand what
(33:42):
you're trying to do with them.
And, and I loved when you talkedabout that ongoing connection.
I, I had the, on my last batting athousand, I had a gal that, by the way,
you two remind me a lot of each other,Kara Whitman superstar loan officer, she's
a very powerful lady in the industry.
She's been a, a, a a, scotsman's guideoriginator for the last seven straight
years does over 700 loans a year.
(34:05):
Powerful.
And she said in, in that podcast, Iwanna be the first person they talk to
and I'm gonna be the last person theytalk to because everybody remembers the
first and last experience and I'm gonnastay in contact with them from that
point through the rest of my career.
And it's like, it's such asimple concept, but so few
people do it most, you're right.
Most people peace out, it'slike, I got the sale, I'm done.
(34:27):
I'm outta here.
And the importance of anoriginator, especially to build
that relationship, cuz you're right.
You know, companies are gonna sell thatproduct off many times in secondary market
and there can be two or three servicers,but if the originator did an incredible
job and they maintain that relationship,Even though the customer might be a little
bit upset that that happened, if theyhave a trusted advisor, they can call and
(34:48):
say, Hey, I'm kind of upset about this.
And they go, you know what?
I'm sorry, but they told'em on the front end.
They set those expectations you talkedabout it makes all the difference.
Like remember I toldyou that could happen?
Oh yeah, you did.
You're right.
And they've still got the relationship.
It ain't going anywhere.
When you do that, that that's how you getto the point of being those super fans.
So great stuff.
All right.
Let's talk about theeat exceed expectations.
(35:09):
Tell, tell us what that is in your book.
So exceed expectations is probablymy favorite pillar of the supermodel,
and it's all about what I like tocall intentional experience design.
Mm-hmm.
So I said before, mm-hmm.
We're living in an experience economy.
It's no longer just aboutproducts or services.
It's how does it feel?
What are people saying about you?
(35:31):
So intentional experience designis looking at every phase of your
customer's journey and saying,how do I want them to feel?
And what am I going to doto achieve that objective?
Before, during and after themactually working with me.
And in the book I talk aboutthis idea of slow elevators.
So I was at Lego Land about,about this time last year,
(35:54):
like almost exactly a year ago.
For the first time I was stayingat the Lego Land Resort in Florida.
And my two sons at the time were twoand four, and we were staying on the
fifth floor of the Lego Land Hotel,which is right next to the theme park.
And my kids just loved this elevator.
There were floor to ceiling decalsof like dancing Lego mini figs.
(36:16):
There was a mirrorball, there were lights.
Every time the door closed it wouldplay like dancing Queen or uh oh fun.
Skin alive.
Like all this disco music.
It was a party and because it was a smallelevator, it was one family at a time.
So my kids were just likedancing their heads off, right?
Like having the best.
Time.
They looked forward to that elevator.
(36:37):
They wanted to ride in itagain and again and again.
It was not until at least thethird day of staying in that resort
Dale, that I realized that was theslowest elevator I had ever been on.
And like, not metaphorically speaking,because I was tired of the dance party.
Like literally it took like two anda half minutes to get from the lobby
(36:59):
to the fifth floor with no stops.
Wow.
Like the whole song Dancing Queen wouldplay like it was so slow, but I didn't
even notice it for the first like15 times that I was on the elevator.
And then once I noticed it, it didn't.
Bother me because they had taken that slowelevator and turned it into an experience.
(37:23):
It was a disco dance party thatwasn't, you know it, I didn't
mind waiting for it, and I didn'tmind being in there a long time.
And I tell this story, and I thinkit's particularly relevant to this idea
of creating experiences and see andexceeding expectations because, you know,
There's like not a lot traditionallythat you look for in an elevator, right?
(37:45):
And like, is it like safety and speed?
That's it, right?
Like, are you gonna get me where I'mgoing and how fast can you get me there?
So at the Lego Land Resort, they didnot say like, we're gonna just throw
our hands up in the air because wecan't make the elevator go faster.
And like, oh, it's a slow elevator.
That sucks.
Too bad.
They said, we are going toturn this into an experience.
(38:07):
Experience right now.
Every single originator listeningto this, everyone working in the
financial services industry, I promiseyou there are slow elevators for your
customers and it is not your job tobe like, well, elevators are slow.
Sometimes I can't fix that.
It is your job to say, how canI take those slow elevators
(38:27):
and take the sting away?
How can I make them feellike a disco dance party?
Like maybe I can't make themgo faster, but I can still.
Impact that experience.
And if you take that approach, ifyou take that customer centricity
and that attention to detail to say,how can I intentionally architect
and experience that you're going toenjoy and remember, I promise you,
(38:50):
you're going to have customers whocome back and tell their friends.
I love that.
That, that's a great analogy.
I'm thinking of myself in anelevator that takes two and a
half minutes to go five floors.
I'd be hitting buttons,I'd be freaking out.
I'd be thinking, we're jammed in thisthing, especially a small elevator and.
They completed an experience thatjust, you never thought about it.
(39:12):
Three days, it took you to figure it out.
That's a really cool story, andyou're right, there's, you know,
there are troubles that happen inmortgages a lot and you've gotta
bring a really great experience tooffset that with your customers.
Even the application, nobodylikes taking an application out.
There's not a customer on theplanet that says, yeah, I can't
wait to take an application.
They hate the process.
You know what?
I like more paperwork.
(39:34):
That's right.
Whatever's exactly what I want.
I, I wanna, I wanna spend 35 minuteson the phone with some stranger to
fill out all of the details of my life.
Nobody wants to do thatunless the person makes it.
Fun.
Makes it an experience,makes it relational, makes it
collaborative, makes it interactive.
All of those things become important.
That's a great point inthe mortgage business.
(39:54):
So let's, let's, let's move toyour final of the super, the repeat
at the end because I, I have a, aclosing question I want to ask you
that I ask all my guests, but tellme about the R in super for repeat.
So, the R in super is there to signify.
That customer experience isnot a set it and forget it.
Like this is not a, I'm gonna solve thisproblem one time and be done forever.
(40:16):
It is a day out, or excuse me, dayin, day out obsession with creating
amazing experiences for your customers.
There's a quote that I lovethat I have in the book.
From Elizabeth Arden, uh, when shewas building her makeup empire, she
said, repetition makes reputationand reputation makes customers, and
it's the exact same for everybody.
(40:37):
I don't care how new or how old, howbig or how small your business is,
repetition is what makes reputationand reputation is what makes customers.
So you've got to do everythingI talk about in the supermodel
and you've got to repeat it.
You've gotta do it again and again.
Transaction after transaction, customerafter customer year after year, to develop
that reputation that makes people say,I am a super fan of that originator,
(41:02):
or I am a super fan of that branchfor that business, and I will be back.
Awesome.
So we have thousands ofpeople who watch this podcast.
Every one of them needs to buy your book.
Where, where would they go to do that?
How do they connect with you?
Uh, I know, uh, a lot of our clientsprobably would love to speak to you about
(41:23):
maybe speaking at one of their events.
Tell tell us a little bit aboutthat and well, how you do that.
Well, thank you.
I would say I would loveto speak at your event.
Uh, I, my email addressis brittany@brittanyhodak.com.
You can find all of the informationabout my speaking and everything
else that I do at britneyhodak.com,and for anyone who's interested in
buying the book, it's available in abeautiful, full color hardcover version.
(41:46):
You can also get it as an e-bookor as an audiobook that I narrate,
and all of those are an Amazon.
You can also find the hardcover whereverbooks are sold, so if you wanna support
your favorite local bookstore or achain like Barnes Noble or Books a
Million, they're available everywhere.
Books are sold.
Awesome.
Highly recommend it.
All right.
Let me, let me ask you the final question.
(42:07):
I could talk for hours with you.
I'm, I'm sad we only have an hourtogether because this is so interesting.
You have given us somany great nuggets today.
Brittany, I can't thankyou enough for that.
Here's the question I ask everybody.
I, I'm, I'm a firm believer thatto succeed in life and to succeed,
certainly in business, you need mentors.
You need people that.
Can mentor you and coachyou and help you get there.
(42:27):
And you know, today one of the problemsthat I see in this, I can't understand
this, is I see a lot of people whodon't want to take advice or wisdom from
people who've been down that road, doneit before, and can help them to avoid
a lot of problems and a lot of issues.
And you know, I'm sureyou were the same way.
I was the same way.
Jake, my son, who, youknow, runs this thing.
(42:48):
He's like this.
When he was a kid, he'd, he'd sit onthe grandpa's lap instead of going,
playing with the kids cuz he wanted tohear and learn and grow and be mentored.
So tell us about any mentors you'vehad in your life and what that
meant to you and how that helpedyou get you where you are today.
Yeah.
Well, I would say the first mentorI had and, and the most incredible
one ever, my life was my dad, Jody.
(43:09):
Nice.
Uh, he worked in customer service.
I think it was his influence that mademe sort of fall in love with the idea
of customer service and what that meant.
Um, he managed a Long JohnSilvers restaurant when I was a
kid, and then he worked at a cardealership as their customer service
manager, and I loved hearing his.
Stories, hear 'em talk about likeall of the things that he did to
(43:31):
over-deliver for his customersand to, to get them to come back.
Um, I, I just thought it was so neat someof the things that, that he implemented.
Um, and so I would say my dad was, was myfirst investment mentor and then lovely.
You know, I've been so lucky to haveso many incredible mentors who've
become friends in the, in this.
Speaking industry in thecustomer experience industry.
(43:52):
One of them is Shep Hyken,who is just brilliant.
Yeah.
And he's been talking aboutcustomer experience and customer
service for a very, very long time.
He was kind enough to writethe forward to my book.
Uh, it's actually a I saw that.
Yeah.
Story in the Forward.
He talks about the world's oldestknown customer complaint letter that
goes back almost 4,000 years, whatthat means and how it was resolved.
(44:13):
So that's a really fun story.
Um, but he's just been incrediblygracious and kind with me to help me
sort of understand all of the, um, youknow, all of the moving parts around this
new career that, that I've embarked onspeaking and writing and teaching people
to, to embrace customer centricity ina way that perhaps they've not thought
about before or not been given the toolsto really, um, succeed with before.
(44:37):
Awesome.
Well, Brittany, I cannot thank youenough for coming on our, our show.
I know you're super busy andthere's a lot of people that, that,
that would love to have you on.
I'm honored that you joined us.
It's fun to be with you again.
Really enjoyed hearing you speak,uh, down in Southern California
and getting to meet you.
That was really a delight.
And, uh, I, I hope we can have youback for season three again and
(44:58):
continue this conversation cuz there'sso many questions I wanted to ask.
I couldn't even get to, uh, for sake oftime, but you knocked it out of the park,
uh, to use a, a batting a thousand phrase.
And we really appreciate you so much.
Thanks for being here.
Well, thank you Dale for having me.
It was, An honor, the pleasure was allmine and I would love to come back for
season, season three and talk even moreabout my very favorite subject in the
(45:20):
world, which is creating super fans,which you're very good at, by the way.
Well, thank you Brittany.
Thanks again everybody.
Thanks for being here foranother Batting a Thousand.
I know you got a lot outta this andenjoyed it and uh, we appreciate
you and God bless everybody.
Have a great day.
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