September 5, 2023 • 53 mins
In this episode of Batting 1,000, Dale Vermillion sits down with Kevin Peranio ("KP"), the Chief Lending Officer at Paramount Residential Mortgage Group (PRMG). KP shares his insights on thriving in the mortgage industry despite the challenges of a high-rate environment. He emphasizes the importance of a better, faster, and more competitive approach, underlining the significance of personal value propositions, technological integration, and responsive customer service.
KP also discusses the strategies that successful loan originators are employing, such as using multiple marketing technologies and focusing on debt consolidation opportunities. This conversation is packed with practical advice and industry wisdom, making it a must-listen for mortgage professionals aiming to excel in today’s market.
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In This Episode
Better, faster, competitive
KP introduces the principle of prioritizing better service, followed by faster and competitive approaches in the mortgage industry.
The relevance of UVPs (starts at 5 mins 45 secs)
Discussing how individual originators can stand out through their unique value propositions beyond their company's tech stack or pricing.
The art of integrating tech stacks (starts at 11 mins)
KP talks about the crucial role of integrating various technologies, including CRMs and digital marketing tools, to enhance efficiency and client relationships.
Traits that win in any market (starts at 18 mins)
The conversation delves into the necessity of being intentional, proactive, and responsive to clients’ needs, emphasizing that these traits can significantly impact success rates.
Cracking the CODE on high-rates (starts at 27 mins)
Dale and KP discuss opportunities for refinancing and consolidating debt in high-rate markets, highlighting how originators can still close significant volumes by addressing consumer debt.
Soundbites
"You have to say better first because, as an originator, that's the one thing that you control." — Kevin Peranio
"Responsiveness is critical. It shows you care and it...
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kevin Peranio (00:01):
I don't even know if the old adage even gets said anymore, but,
um, you know, it used to be, um, cheaper,uh, cheaper, better, faster, pick two.
And if there's anything that Amazonhas really tried to build and show.
Is you can be all three to some leveland I purposely say better first.
I say better, faster, cheaper.
You, you gotta say, you gottasay better first because, um,
(00:25):
as an originator, that's the onething that you control, right?
I, I choose my environment, how Ioperate, how I communicate and my value
proposition as an individual originator.
Okay.
And that's better.
I'm better, right?
So me as me as a person, notmy company, not my tech stack.
Not my channel, not how I do business,me and how all together I combine
(00:49):
all those things and how it worksfor me, I'm better at that respect.
That's why you say better first.
And that's what better is.
Voice Over (01:00):
You're listening to batting 1000 with Dale Vermillion,
where heavy hitters from mortgage,real estate, and business share their
secrets for lasting success with yourhost award winning sales strategist
and industry icon, Dale Vermillion.
Dale Vermillion (01:14):
All right.
Welcome to batting a thousandwhere we talk to the heavy
hitters in the mortgage arena.
And I am super, super delightedto have a great guest.
I'm wearing my Dr.
Pepper t shirt for a reason, because notonly is this guy a Texas original like Dr.
Pepper, but he's one ofa kind, just like Dr.
Pepper.
And that's what I love about him.
Uh, today I've got Kevin Peranio.
(01:35):
And if you don't know thatname, you're not in the mortgage
business because KP is everywhere.
Um, he is the chieflending officer for PRMG.
Um, uh, Paramount, uh,Residential Mortgage Group.
Uh, they have been around for a long time.
They are the company that was builtby originators for originators.
Uh, they have been a wholesalelender, have helped so many people
(01:58):
in our industry over the years.
Prior to that, he spent time,um, as a regional vice president.
He spent time as aChief Operating Officer.
He is a well known name andface in the mortgage industry.
You might have seen him on KP TalksDollars and Cents on LinkedIn because he
does that like 2 o'clock in the morningall the time is when I see him doing it.
(02:19):
Uh, he is always bringing greatinformation about the industry.
He is a fellow Vanguardthrough HousingWire.
This guy just has credentials outthe yin yang and most importantly,
he is a dear friend and that'sthe thing I value the most.
KP and I've known eachother for a long time.
KP, awesome to have you today.
Kevin Peranio (02:36):
Thank you for having me.
I, I, I love telling origin stories.
You know, how did we get started inthis business and how do we do this?
How do we do that?
Um, I saw you speak, um, at an event yearsago and I was just floored and I like,
I just went right up to you afterwards.
It's like, Oh my God, I wantyou to come speak to my team.
You're like, this is amazing, you know?
And, uh, and so I, you know, andthen we struck up our friendship,
(02:58):
uh, you know, away from just, youknow, the business aspect of it.
So thank you so much for havingme, uh, on, uh, batting a thousand.
Dale Vermillion (03:05):
Oh, absolutely.
So look, we want to talk aboutlet's talk about the market.
You know, we have seenrates consistently stay up.
Uh, you know, everybody in the industrykeeps holding their breath, hoping
the rates are going to go down.
And the fact of the matter isthey're not going to anytime soon.
Uh, we've seen rates bumping6 and a half and 7 and a half
for the last couple of months.
(03:25):
Um, you know, production has been down.
But the interesting thing and the thingI want to hear from you originally or
initially KP is this, because I knowyou're seeing the same thing I'm seeing,
I'm seeing in the marketplace wherethere are loan originators that are
absolutely rushing it in this market.
Well, 15, 18, 20, 25 loansa month consistently.
(03:47):
And that's a very small percentage.
In fact, I was just in a conversationwith the executives of ice yesterday, and
they gave the statistic that 40 percentof originators comprise 83 percent of
the production in the marketplace today.
The other 60 percent onlycreate 17 percent of that.
What I'm seeing is a realkind of haves and have nots.
We're seeing people who are crushingit and people are doing one loan a
(04:10):
month, one loan every two months, oneloan every three months limping along.
And here's my firm belief.
It always has been after 40 years.
If another originator in your marketcan do 20 loans, you can do 20 loans.
There's no reason why there's, there'sno separation or differentiation
except for two things, your attitude.
That's your mentality or,or your, or your mindset.
(04:32):
And your methodologies, theapproaches that you're taking.
So you see tons of originators, KP.
You work with hundreds of lenders,thousands and thousands of brokers
across the nation and loan officers.
Talk about what you're seeing thatis making successful loan officers
and what you're seeing that'skeeping them from being successful.
(04:54):
Give us, give us some of that KP wisdom.
Kevin Peranio (04:56):
Yeah, sure.
Well, I like that statyou just quoted from ICE.
I guess.
the 80 20 rules now, the 80 40 rule.
And, uh, you know, if people arelooking for hope, that should
be hopeful right there that thattop core group is expanding.
But, uh, yeah, you know, hopeis not a strategy, right?
Like, of course, we all hopefor the rates to come down.
We hope for that to happensooner rather than later.
(05:17):
But, you know, that's That'sa bonus if it happens when it
happens, and it will happen.
We all know that it's a cyclical business.
And so, so what are you doing?
Head down away from the noise,trying to get that 12 to 25 units
of funding, uh, production everysingle month, even in this market.
What are the tactics that you're doing?
Um, so I, I noticed a fewthings, um, just, just, you
(05:38):
know, off the top of my head.
Um, I'm seeing, um, I'm seeing peoplethat have spent time, Putting together,
uh, multiple marketing, uh, technologiescombined with their, um, sales skills.
And so, um, you know, we,we have a digital marketing
and lending team at PRMG.
We actually run stats.
On who is the most productive?
(06:00):
What are some of thesecrets to their success?
And what's interesting is, um, ifsomeone takes like, let's say, like,
they take a CRM, an automated trigger,um, you know, maybe a website and, you
know, maybe, you know, one other pieceof technology, something for video,
like a, like a social media coach orsocial coach or something like that.
Right?
So if you take 4 things, okay, and youuse them in your habits every day, right?
(06:23):
Um, that those people are moresuccessful than someone with 3.
Okay.
Certainly, someone with only 1 andso our number actually goes up.
Uh, like, we have that number.
How many systems areoriginators using now?
This is in our retail channel that wedo this, uh, distributed retail channel
that we do this analysis because I don't.
(06:43):
Have the information on our partners, butas that number goes up, um, the retention
rate for, for, um, uh, original stayingwith PRMG goes up and the success rate.
Goes up now, and so, you know,is there some causality there?
Like, okay, well, maybe when I said atthe beginning, the use of good modern
(07:05):
technology for marketing combined withtheir sales skills, well, maybe their
sales skills are better, but maybe not,you know, maybe, you know, just because
someone's a better salesperson andgrinds and does the follow up work and
is very efficient doesn't necessarilymean that they're going to have up to
8 or 9 pieces of combined technology.
And so for us, Um, as that numbermakes its way up to say eight
(07:27):
different pieces of tech allcombined together eight, right?
I mean think about that.
That's crazy But eight different piecesof tech those people are out producing
those with lower numbers, you know underfour by three fold So so that you know,
so if someone's doing You know, three orfour loans a month, and then someone's
got eight pieces of tech together.
(07:48):
You know, they're doingpotentially 9 to 12 units a month.
And then if you combine thatwith just talent in raw skills,
you know, are you following up?
Do you refuse to say no?
I will find a way to get this deal donewith this bar of his place to trust in me.
No matter what, I will call 17 differentlenders until I find a program.
(08:08):
To make this deal work.
Now that, that is like not giving up.
That is resolve.
That is grit.
And that's probably the third thing thatkind of comes to the top of my mind is
you got to get, you know, you got tobroaden out your product knowledge base.
So, so if I'm going to call 17different lenders to make a deal work,
you know, I'm delving into non QM.
(08:29):
I may be looking at some second lienstuff, second liens that are done on
bank statements only or non QM stuffthat's bank statement only, first lien.
I'm doing a cash out deal insidemy database for someone that
probably didn't even know theyneeded to consolidate their debt.
You know, I'm having these conversationsusing my sales skills and putting
it all together with my modern tech.
(08:50):
And I don't just mean like send outa bunch of emails and drip on your
clients and hope they call you.
Like, if you're doing that,you're like everybody else,
you've got to do more than that.
Right.
And that's just one piece of tech.
So those are kind of three tacticsthat I'm seeing, uh, you know, that
are working right now, happy to divedeep into any one of those or, or, uh,
talk about any topics, uh, around that.
Yeah.
Dale Vermillion (09:10):
So, so let's unpack each one of those three.
I love when you use the word grit.
Um, I just did a session with, uh, withmy clients on this and I defined grit as
being this, get really intentional today.
That's grit is we're going to get up.
We're going to get out of bed and we aregoing to be intentional about what we do.
We're not going to be reactive.
We're going to be proactive.
That's what grit is in this marketplace.
(09:32):
And man, you need a lotof it today because.
You know, the one thing weknow about today's market is
you've got to do more calls.
You've got to do more prospecting.
You've got to get outmore in your community.
You've got to do more of everythingby three to four times than what
you had to do in 2020 and 2021.
To get the same kind of numbers you gotin 2020 and 2021 because everybody's
(09:57):
business has shrunk by that amount.
Your realtors have a third.
The business they used to have,you know your builders, they're
starting to come back strong finally.
But they had a a tough time for a while,and certainly consumer activity is down
by 60 to 70% just because consumersreact to what interest rates do.
So when rates go up, activity goesdown, you've got a double and triple.
(10:20):
The amount of outbound activityyou're doing to make up for that.
So let's first unpack, cause Iknow, you know, this really well.
Let's start with the technology piece,because I've always said, you know,
for years and years and years, the keyto success is high tech, high touch.
So let's talk high tech first.
We'll come back and talk abouthigh touch in a minute, but talk
about some of those technologies.
(10:40):
You mentioned, for example, a CRM.
I see loan officers every daythat have a CRM and don't use it.
And I'm like, what are you doing?
Why would you not use that tool thatcan organize your leads, organize your
referrals, build out your systems.
Talk about what you think are the keytechnologies that really matter today.
Kevin Peranio (11:00):
Well, well, just, just so you know, you, you know,
I said the word grit on purposebecause you've been our sales guru
and trainer for several years now.
And I remember theyget really intentional.
And so, uh, I, I'm glad that sincewe're on the baseball team here,
I, I tossed you a soft pitch there.
Um, and you knocked it outof the park, by the way.
Um, uh, but you know, I, I, I joke likea year ago when things started to get
(11:24):
a little rough, um, towards the end ofJune of 22 and in July, I would say,
Um, hey, everyone has to work twice asmuch twice as hard for half the money.
And that means you need to make four timesas much effort to make the same amount of
money or, and now that rates are kind oftouching back up and that higher end of
the range again, it's back to that again.
(11:44):
And so, um, you know, being intentionalabout your actions, you know, quadrupling
your actions is super important, butwhat's great about technology and
what I always say about tech is, um,it allows you to, compress your time.
Cause time is money.
So compressing your time is, um, isabsolutely critical reducing friction.
(12:04):
Okay.
So, you know, um, having a morefrictionless experience for both
you and your team and your consumer,um, you, you know, your, your, your,
your, uh, loan partner, your barber.
Um, and then of course,scaling your business.
And so, you know, people don't thinklike, oh, this isn't a time to scale.
You absolutely can scale.
Right.
So, So, so as it relates to CRM, whichis absolutely a must, you know, um,
(12:27):
I've been in all these different, youknow, groups out there online, Facebook
groups and chat groups, and I watch, andthe big joke is, you know, someone will
post a question, what's the best CRM.
And then, you know, all the veteransin the business kind of smirk, you
know, cause it's like, you know, theanswer is the one you use, right?
So You know, if you're not usingone, well, like you said, I mean,
(12:47):
you've got this drip system.
Um, I remember when we first startedputting some of our, uh, don't worry,
it's not police, just a co star, uh,the helicopter in the background.
Um, so, uh, you know, I remembertalking to some of our top producers
about seven, eight years ago whenthey were first getting on like a real
enterprise CRM that we're using a PRMGand they were like, it's not working.
(13:08):
I go, what do you mean it's not working?
And they're like, well, I sent outall these emails and you know, um,
I'm not getting enough conversion.
Um, I was like, it doesn't work like that.
It is not a magic silver bullet.
You know, you don't just sendout emails to your database
and the loans come flooding in.
Um, that happens sometimes whenthere's a refinance market.
Um, that does happen when borrowers areall really heightened and interested
(13:29):
and in tune with what's going on.
But it is, um, it is a tip ofthe spear approach when you are
marketing to clients, either past,present, or even future prospects.
So you have to follow up with them.
You have to call them.
You know, you have to call every singleclient you've ever done business with.
(13:49):
At least once a year, ifnot once a quarter or more.
Hey, it's KP here, your trustedadvisor, your past originator, you
know, I know you haven't forgotten me.
We had such a great experience together.
What's going on right now?
You know, ask some open ended questions.
What are some things I can work with?
Are you, you know, do you need some cash?
Can we tap into your equity?
Are you thinking about moving?
Um, what are some challenges you'refacing with your debts or with your home?
(14:11):
Um, and so, you know, Technology like thathelps you leverage those conversations,
open up those conversations.
So as it relates to CRM,it's the one you use.
Now, I like to classify CRMs in,in three kind of major categories.
Um, and, and so they're all reallydifferent for each individual.
Some, some CRMs can kind of handlea couple of different things, but,
(14:34):
um, especially upfront activity.
I would say like the texting.
Functionality of a serum is superimportant for, um, for forward
marketing up funnel marketing.
This is not a past client.
You're trying to work with someone,you're trying to get them engaged
and they're, they're activelythinking about it and searching.
Right?
So their serums are really good at,like, texting and in, like, a calm stack.
(14:57):
They're a good communication tool.
Then you've got some thatare good at creating content.
Okay, so you got some that come with tonsof flyers, tons of access, tons of content
that you can shape and make your own.
You don't have to have acreative staff on your team.
You're using that CRM to createcontent that resonates with
the way you want to effectivelycommunicate as a sales professional.
(15:19):
And then what I would say is.
Um, there are, there's a thirdcategory where they integrate
with other different partners.
So my CRM will integratewith, uh, you know, multiple
different vendors that I'm using.
So like I said, if we have, um, four toeight, 10 different pieces of technology,
does my main CRM, that customerrelationship management tool, does it
(15:39):
integrate with all those other tools?
So then, so, so for us as acompany, you know, we're, we're
an enterprise, uh, company.
And, and so in my distributedretail, We had an enterprise
solution a few years ago.
One of the major ones out there and theywere really good at creating content.
But then our chief marketing officer,Paul Lucido and our marketing team
kept getting bigger and bigger.
We started investing more increating better content in house.
(16:04):
Then we even created a digitalmarketing team separate from
the traditional marketing team,creating better digital content.
So then our need for our CRM kindof evolved into, all right, well,
maybe we want our CRM to be betterat integrating with other partners.
So let's say that I integrated,uh, with mortgage champions
and deal over a million.
(16:24):
So Dale and Jake and all the team there,you guys are putting together a piece
of content that like a video, a snippetthat I really liked, or maybe a flyer.
If I'm integrated with your team,Then that CRM can pull that content
in, put it in a journey, spit it out.
And it's reducing time, uh, you know,uh, compressing time, reducing friction,
and then I can scale my business.
(16:45):
So, so we've evolved to anenterprise level CRM that integrates
with other partners and thosepartners help us create content.
So I don't have all that burdenon just my digital marketing team
and my traditional marketing team.
So that's what we classify CRMs.
And again, that's what we do.
You know, it's, it's one of manytechnology pieces in the stack.
Dale Vermillion (17:05):
Yep.
I love that.
So you've got to have, from what KP talkedabout there, you got to have that front
end capability to be able to organizeand stratify all of your leads, all of
your past customers, your database, yourprospects, your realtors, all of those
things have got to be captured in there.
And then it's got to work with the othertechnologies to be able to text message,
(17:26):
email, dial out, do all those phone calls.
You can't live in today's market withoutthat, because you need those efficiencies.
If you have to have a four X increasein your activities, because otherwise
you just run out of time in the day,if you're trying to do it manually.
So that technology becomes critical.
And then you've got to tie that toany online applications you have.
(17:46):
And you better have a back end technologythat keeps that contact and that
follow up with those borrowers duringthe process, after the process, once
they've closed, it's making sure you'reboxing in both ends of that transaction
because, you know, the mistake a lot oforiginators make is they're good on the
front end, terrible on the back end.
And then they lose thedeal in this marketplace or
(18:09):
they're bad on the front end.
So they never get to the back end becausethey just don't get it in the first place.
It's really critical.
And the one thing I want to add tothat, that I think is really important.
Um, and I know you and I both agreeon this wholeheartedly, The thing
you cannot use your technology foris to create your relationships.
(18:31):
And I love your example of the loanofficer who's emails 150 people and then
sits there and looks at his computerwaiting for something to happen.
It ain't going to happen in an 8%,seven and a half percent market.
I was, I was, you know, I've workedwith many clients, um, over the last
several months where I'm identifyingthat the loan officers are utilizing text
(18:51):
messages, not just to create interest.
But then they're trying tosell the borrower over text.
That is never going to work.
You are not going to get somebody tomake a 475, 000 financial decision,
the biggest one in their lifetime,and never talk to you, never hear from
you, never get explanation from you.
You've got to use that text messageto create the interest, to capture
(19:15):
that initial text based customer,and then layer that on by saying,
Let's have a conversation andtalk about your needs, your goals.
Things I can do for you andmove forward from there.
So tech really puts you in the game.
Kevin Peranio (19:26):
I love that point.
And let me, let me takethe other end of that.
So let's say that you're a loanofficer and you don't use tech.
Okay.
And you're like, you know what?
I take all my applications over the phone.
I get on the phone with a bar andI go through every single line
and I get to know all their needs.
Um, I get that approach and here's whyI think it can be enhanced and you, and.
(19:49):
Be more trusting of the tech.
Okay.
So let's take, let's take point of sale.
For example, you know, we'reon blend 60 percent of our
fundings and retail are on blend.
I mean, you know, everyone'sgot their opinions.
I think it's by far the bestpoint of sale in the industry.
And no one's like evenclips is my opinion.
And there are various reasons for that.
But, um, but what I would say is let'ssay that I, you know, give me an example.
(20:11):
So I send out, uh, I, I, I get anappointment or I call the bar and I'm
going through the loan application.
You know, um, how manydependents do you have, Mr.
Perennial?
Um, I have four.
Um, how old are they?
Um, they're four, six, eight, and ten.
Okay, so I'm writing it down.
Now, because I'm on the phone andI'm asking every single question,
you know, In the interest of time,you might not take that further
(20:36):
that I just talked about, because atthe end of the app, you have to go.
Are you a co endorser on?
I know.
Oh, what does that mean?
Explain that?
Have you ever been in foreclosure?
Are you will be able to go throughall the declarations on the back?
Right?
So so this is where trusting techand a point of sale is great.
Let let a consumer letme, you could text him.
(20:56):
You could email me.
Call me.
Let me send you the link.
Fill out this application.
Fill out as much as you can.
Let's set an appointmentto go over it together.
I'm going to review it before I get onthe phone with you in the interest of Your
time and my time, we're going to, because,because, you know, saving time for your
consumer shows, you care about them too.
So they, you know, they don'tnecessarily want to spend an hour
(21:18):
with you going through all thosestupid, you know, things when they
can probably, you know, knock it out.
They may be very fast and intelligent.
They may be smart, especiallyif it's a millennial, they're
probably a lot smarter than me.
They could probably fill outas much of that link than I can
verbally say, go over on the phone.
I mean, You're disrespectingtheir time sitting on the lake.
Get the app back, set up an appointment.
Then now here's how it goes.
(21:39):
All right.
So now I'm talking to you.
Hey, Mr.
Perennial, I see you have four kids.
Holy smokes.
That's amazing.
Are you trying to buy a house?
you know, better for their school.
Are you looking because I have somerealtors that know the school districts
can give you more information.
Is that why you're making this move now?
In that same amount of time,that was so much more impactful
in relationship building thanhow many children do you have?
(22:00):
What are their ages?
Then let me type them down.
Because you already saw it beforeyou got on the phone, you reviewed it
and you had a more impactful amountof time by talking about that stuff.
And I don't even need tolook at the declaration.
So they already filled all those littlecheck boxes out and I can tell, you
know, whether they're wrong or not.
And if I need to go over it, so, sojust taking a loan application with
(22:21):
a technology piece of point of sale.
It's such a big difference for bothyour time and the consumer's time.
Don't disrespect theconsumer's time either.
They don't want to sit on the phone andhave you walk them through everything.
And that's just one of manyaspects of the business.
You know, it gets a lot more heated asthe deadline comes for the contract later.
So if you had a better experienceupfront and you were available upfront
(22:42):
and you communicated back and forth upfront in an efficient manner, they're
going to have a lot less heat on them.
And you, when things get closerto the deadline at the end,
Dale Vermillion (22:51):
That's rich.
That's, that's so powerful.
And you know, that dovetails so much whatI've taught forever is that what you have
to do, you know, I get the question a lot.
So what's the right wayto do an application?
And the answer is you combine both.
You combine the technology advantageof an online application with the
(23:12):
human advantage of a telephoneconversation is what you have to do.
You have to create that hightech, high touch approach.
And the mistake that I see time andtime and time and time again in today's
marketplaces, Owners should just shootoff a link, and the next call they make
is not to go back and talk about the kids.
It's not to go back and review whatyou're trying to do with the home.
It's not to go back and selltheir realtor to that customer.
(23:34):
So you enhance yourrelationship with your realtor.
It's not to go back and dig in on theirdebt to understand how we can build the
best restructure for them on a refinance.
You know what their next call is.
Okay, I've got you approved.
Let me make you my offer.
Wait a minute.
Hold on a second.
You went from zero to 120with nothing in between.
(23:55):
That's literally what you did.
You, you, you gave them a,an online app to fill out.
They did it themselves.
Now you get on and you're rightto, okay, here's your payment.
Here's your rate.
Here's your call closing costs.
Here's your, here's your cost to close.
It's like, what are you doing?
Nobody's going to buy in that scenario.
You're going to createshoppers all day long.
You just
Kevin Peranio (24:15):
come up, you just commoditize yourself.
You do.
It's exactly right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Dale Vermillion (24:20):
I hear it.
I hear it all the time.
We'll just go.
Those bars are shoppers.
I go, no, you created ashopper is what you did.
They were until you made them one.
Kevin Peranio (24:29):
Yeah.
And look, I mean, rate is alwayspart of every conversation, right?
I mean, of course, you know, if, if, if,if it's just about shopping, well, let's
just send everybody to the credit union.
It's got the best ratesin the country right now.
Everyone just quit your job and sendit to that one person works at a credit
union for peanuts because they have thebest rep don't hit me with that rate
stuff because you're not number one.
(24:49):
You're not number one.
You never will be.
You're not.
There's one loan officer in the country.
Who's number one at rate now, Idon't know, but they probably work
at a credit unit and they probablydon't work for a lot of money.
And so, so just, just, you know, likeyou said, you, you have to create value.
That doesn't mean you have a bad price andyou're trying to wash over the fact that
your price may be higher than the best.
(25:11):
That's not the case andprices fluctuate all the time.
The broker channel had horrendouspricing during the pandemic.
The worst, because there was, it's sucha smaller percentage of the market share.
Okay, so there's too much businessflooding in for that model, for
the amount of capacity in thefew lenders that were out there.
And I got news for you, there's alot less wholesale lenders today
(25:33):
than there was three years ago.
So if we see a smidge of a rebuyboom, it's going to be the same thing.
Our model is about capacity.
Some channels have worse and betterpricing at different times in the cycle.
There's not one that's alwaysthe best at all the time.
And anyone tells you different,they are lying to you.
They are self absorbed tryingto get you to go their way.
And trust me, anyone that's aveteran in this business, they
(25:55):
know there's ups and downs.
So value is the consistent thing, right?
Your combination.
Of giving a consumer price, givingthem expertise, taking the time to
help solve problems, your productknowledge, you know, how you
communicate, do you resonate them?
Does your tech marry intogether with all that?
That's what makes someonespecial as an originator.
(26:17):
That is the thing that makes themthe most special that I would
combine and call it altogether value.
Dale Vermillion (26:23):
Yeah, that's well, well, well said KP.
That's exactly the truthas to what the problem is.
It's like I've said all the time, there'salways a cheaper and there's always a
faster, but that don't make them a better.
And, and you got to understand that Isee loan officers too many times bank on
two things, their price and their speed.
Hey, I've got great ratesand I can close in two weeks.
(26:43):
Well, you know what?
I would wait four weeks if it was abetter loan, to be honest with you.
And they do?
Yeah, that's right.
And they absolutely do.
So, we've got to understand thatthat value proposition of how you
create that white glove customerexperience, and you only do that
when you establish a relationship.
So, when we talk about high tech, hightouch, it's having that technology
(27:05):
that allows you to create efficiencies,To, to be able to easily get access to
information from the, from the customer,like their income documentation and all
the things you do need to do to supportcommitment, but it's being able to take
that technology and still build thatpersonal human relationship, not make
it all about a, I love when you said amoment ago, you know, the loan officer
(27:27):
taking the application, Sarah was, soyou got, how many dependents do you have?
I mean, I've said this my whole career.
Yeah.
You don't walk into a room at your20 year high school reunion, see
your best friend from high school,four kids and go, man, those are the
cutest dependents I've ever seen.
They would think there wassomething wrong with you.
That's like saying nice tax deductions.
You're going to saywhat beautiful children.
(27:48):
And nobody talks like that todaybecause we're so quick taking a nap.
So we've got to buildthat, that human side.
Kevin Peranio (27:56):
I love, I love that.
Well, you, it's funny cause you know,um, I don't even know if the old adage
even gets said anymore, but, um, youknow, it used to be, um, cheaper,
uh, cheaper, better, faster pick two.
Right.
So, so that, that was the old adage.
And if there's anything thatAmazon has really tried to build
and show is you can be all three.
(28:17):
To some level, but I'vebeen banging the drum.
I put out a lot of content in theindustry and I purposely say better.
1st, I say better, faster, cheaper.
Right?
Right.
And I said that 1st, I'vebeen banging that drum.
I say it that way on purposeand I'm very flattered.
I see some marketing departmentspiggybacking off that.
I love seeing it out there.
They're not giving me any creditfor it, but you got to say, you
(28:40):
got to say better 1st, because.
As an originator, that's the onething that you control, right?
I choose my environment, how I operate,how I communicate, and my value
proposition as an individual originator.
Okay.
And that's better.
I'm better.
Right?
So me as me as a person, not mycompany, not my tech stack, not my
(29:02):
channel, not how I do business, meand how all together I combine all
those things and how it works for me.
I'm better in that respect.
That's why you say better first.
And that's what better is now.
I think faster.
Second.
Because speed has to do withanything that any of us can control.
There's some things you don't control.
Okay.
(29:22):
There's like
Dale Vermillion (29:23):
realtors and how fast
we lost your audio for a minute.
There we go.
You're back.
Yeah, sorry.
Kevin Peranio (29:35):
So, so the second thing I like to say is, is, uh, faster, right?
Cause cause faster means that you'retrying to respect the time of your
consumer, your bar, your partner.
And of course you're faster.
Now there are some things that youdon't control when it comes to speed,
how fast realtors are taking how fastbars, you know, get documents back.
That did not send you thelast page, the bank statement.
(29:58):
It says this page left intentionallyblank, but you need all page of
the bank statements, you know,that little back and forth, right?
But if you grasp tech.
And you use day 1 certainty, andyou got it from the beginning.
When they enter their bankinformation and username and
password, it was all automated.
And then dumped in the loanoriginator system and under it faster.
Cheaper is always third becausecheap sounds cheap, right?
(30:19):
It's cheap, you know, and again, you know,a price play inherently means someone's
cutting a corner somewhere on something.
Okay.
And, um, it may be cuttinga corner on profitability.
To raise rates later at a different time.
All right.
And so cheaper can't be trusted.
Okay.
(30:39):
Consistency and love thatconsistency in price can be trusted.
Cause I'll say it again.
The number one cheapest, absoluteonly lender and or origin in America.
It's only one place and we don'tall send their loans to them.
So, um, if someone is consistentlycheaper and they don't jack the rates,
they didn't jack up the rates whenthings got busy, they're consistently
(31:02):
putting out a consistent price.
That builds trust, especiallywith a lender and the originator.
And so I always go better,faster, cheaper in that order.
Dale Vermillion (31:14):
And look, I, you know, when you use the word cheaper,
you're setting the wrong connotation.
I prefer to replace thatwith the word competitive.
Yes, you're competitive.
Because you mentioned it.
Cheaper is something that if you createthat mindset with the borrower, they're
never going to stop chasing that.
They're going to keep lookingfor the cheaper and cheaper
and cheaper and cheaper.
(31:34):
So I love the way that you built that out.
That's absolutely true.
Let's talk for a minute about speed.
Because.
Here's been my inherent belief forthe 40 years I've been in the business
is that speed is way more importantto the loan originator than to the
borrower in 99 percent of the cases.
There are very few times when aborrower actually needs you to
close in lightning fast speed.
(31:55):
What matters to the borrower whenit comes to speed and what matters
to the partner when it comes tospeed Is your responsiveness.
Yes.
Not your days from application tofund all the realtor cares about.
Just get it done before the contract date.
That's it.
That's all they wanna know.
That's it.
You know, don't be, don't don't be callingme at three o'clock in the afternoon
(32:16):
with a three 30 closing and saying.
I just got my CTC.
That's going to drive them crazy.
You'll never get business from them again.
What they want is, they don't careif you're two weeks or three weeks.
If it's a 30 day contract, have itdone in 29 days for me and I'm fine.
I'm okay with that.
What the borrower and the realtor wantis, return my phone calls quickly.
(32:37):
When I give you a referral, callmy customer right away and show
them the same kind of level ofservice that I'm showing them.
So that literally when they hangup the phone, they're calling me
back as a realtor and saying, wow,that loan officer you referred me
to, I got off the phone with you.
And my phone was ringing fromthem immediately saying, I'm
(32:58):
a partner with this realtor.
I'm here to get your loan done becausewhen you are responsive like that,
they already know you're going to begood at what you do the entire process.
You prove it right from the get go.
It's, it's interesting, KP.
You're going to love this.
We've been doing secret choppercalls with all of our clients.
Uh, my daughter, Jessica, beenin the business five years.
(33:19):
I got her in the mortgagebusiness five years ago.
She's working for me now.
So I said, here's what I want you to do.
You you're, you were an actress, youknow, the business inside and out.
I want you to start callingour clients loan officers
and let's get some good data.
Well, we've now made abouta hundred phone calls.
You know, we found.
You know, we found the data is on howlong the average call takes from the
(33:40):
time she leaves a message on theirvoicemail saying, Hey, I'm a new buyer.
I'm thinking about buying a home.
I'd like to talk to you about,you know, just how that works
and what your rates are.
It's over three and a half hoursbefore she gets a phone call and only
about 55 percent even return the phonecall within the first three days.
(34:01):
It's unbelievable.
So, you know, you see that it's likeyour problem isn't your technology.
Your problem isn't your products.
Your problem isn't your pricing.
Your problem is you're not responsive.
So talk a little bit about whatyou see in that, in the business.
How vitally important responsive is.
Kevin Peranio (34:18):
Yeah.
You know, so, so as chief lendingofficer, I oversee three channels.
So we have wholesale correspondent,um, which includes non delegated and,
uh, uh, delegated and then retail.
So I, you know, we saybuilt by originators.
Built for originals by originals fora reason because we don't we don't
care what channel they want to be on.
(34:39):
They all they're all differentin their own way, right?
So, um, so we're trying to servethem and in a purchase heavy
market, you know between that trichannel mix We did about a billion
dollars in may and june each month.
Wow about nine.
Well, 92 percent purchase Okay, sothe the purchase percentage typically
is the highest in retail and thengets a lot a little bit lower in
(35:00):
wholesale And then even lower in ourcorresponding channel Um, but all of
them are pretty elevated right nowbecause, you know, rates are high.
So most of it's a purchase.
So to your point, yougot a sales contract.
You're not going to make the sellerlike move out quicker, you know,
uh, unless they unless they askyou, uh, your bar probably doesn't
want to get rid of their money.
(35:21):
Uh, more quickly.
You know, maybe they, they gotta, youknow, they, they need to move, you
know, they gotta organize moving, youknow, they're probably not gonna do it.
Yep.
You know, in seven days, which isthe, the least amount of time that
a loan application is allowed toget done, you know, per regulation.
So, um, and that's withan appraisal waiver.
So, so, you know, for us, I agree, it's,it's responsiveness and, and here's,
here's, I mean, first of all, um, for theones that did call back three and a half
(35:44):
hours, um, it's better not calling back.
Okay?
But, but here's, here's what's crazy.
The, the first time home buyer.
Is a millennial and, um, theaverage age before this rate
spike in last year was 33.
Now it's 36.
So it tells you how less affordableloans have gotten and you had to, you
know, now our average age of first timehome buyers a little higher because
(36:05):
that affordability element still stillin that millennial range and the way
that they look at responsiveness.
Um, we saw lead conversion.
Um, these statistics are withinfive minutes, five minutes.
Okay.
So five minutes when, whenthey borrow, when your daughter
called, okay, what she expects.
Okay.
(36:25):
And what the data shows us forsomeone that's actually doing alone.
Not a fake secret shopper.
Okay.
Is 5 minutes you call back in a minute.
You're golden.
If you don't call back within 5minutes, you, your, your retention and
conversion rate of that bar is is 10%.
So, wow.
So it's 10%.
So, wow.
(36:45):
So you have to call back in 5 minutes.
So that's why that's whyusing tech is good, right?
Something that.
Responds to Jessica says, Hey, youknow, you know, I saw what you called.
Here's a text schedule my calendarexactly when the time works for you
and I and someone get back to you.
Some people even have answering servicesthat will pick up the phone within
(37:07):
that first call or within five minutes.
Dale Vermillion (37:09):
Yep.
Kevin Peranio (37:09):
And call on behalf of the loan officer.
You don't have to be like, just likeyou don't have to take the entire loan
application and be the only persontalking to bar the whole way through.
And you could use a point of sale.
You also don't have to be the onlyperson that talks to the bar, the entire
process, you can have someone else.
It's okay to give up control becauseif you don't, You will not scale your
(37:31):
business and you will lose a lot of it.
And so, you know, so yeah, we agree.
Responsiveness is, um, it shows you care.
It's absolutely critical.
And, uh, and you've gotthe data to back it up.
Dale Vermillion (37:44):
So let me ask you one more question.
Then I want to ask you the finalquestion of, of, of the interview.
Um, I'm seeing on my end thatthe clients that I'm having,
they're the most successful.
Right now and, and I've got clientsthat are literally beating their plans
from last year and the year before.
So they're beating 2021 and2023, if you can believe that.
I
Kevin Peranio (38:03):
believe it.
Dale Vermillion (38:04):
The way that they're, yeah, the way that they're doing it
is they are not buying into the factthat this is a purchase only market.
They are doing a ton of refinances.
Yes.
They're doing a ton of cash out.
Eliminations because the consumerdebt is the highest in US history.
We're well over a trillion dollars incredit card debt for the first time ever.
Home equity loans andlines are through the roof.
(38:25):
Auto loans are over $40,000 fora new car loan average this year.
In 2023.
Rates are in the 20 on creditcards in the teens, on car loans,
and in the teens on home equity.
And everybody's looking at this sixand a half, seven, seven and a half
percent and thinking how awful that is.
Well, compared to 23 percent and14 percent and all these other,
you combined that, you've gotsome incredible opportunities.
(38:48):
Are you seeing the same thing out therein, in what you're seeing from your level?
Kevin Peranio (38:52):
Yes, we're seeing, um, you know, um, this whole talk about
recession and, you know, rememberwe're supposed to be in one right now.
Maybe, maybe we were lastyear, maybe it's coming.
I mean, that's goingto come at some point.
Right.
But.
Even though the Fed just said itain't happening, but as, um, economies
slow down, as, um, higher interestrates shrink our economies grow,
(39:17):
the more the economy goes in thatdirection, the more people need cash.
The more that's right.
Time has built up since the good timeswhen they were spending, you know, um,
you know, habitually and maybe theydon't want to break that habit, right?
That's why you have nested equity.
So people have record equity.
I mean, record equity and, and, youknow, um, not all death is a bad
(39:39):
thing, especially if you alreadyhave debt, you must just consolidate
your debt into one place or abetter combined monthly payment.
Okay.
Use that home.
That's right.
So the debt consolidation tool, youknow, our good friend Barry, you
know, we love their tools over there.
MBS Highway.
We love
Dale Vermillion (39:54):
Barry.
Kevin Peranio (39:54):
They're great.
Um, so, you know, having those kindsof tools out there and putting it,
you know, integrated in your CRM andpushing out that kind of content, um,
you know, having those kinds of thing.
Mortgage Coach.
You know, obviously, uh, Dave Savage,they do a good job there to, you
know, having these kinds of thingsto talk about these conversations.
That's great.
You got tech, you got thesepresentations, you get them out.
Then you have to have a conversation.
(40:15):
I'm your debt advisor.
I'm your trusted advisor.
Um, I think that's whatBarry and his team called it.
Like I'm a debt advisor, right?
So let me help you consolidate your debt.
Let me help you, you know, 250bucks, 350 bucks extra a month.
That's meaningful.
Uh, especially as you get closerto a slowing, uh, economy recession
and no recession, people are like,want that little comfort level.
(40:39):
So yeah, we're seeing, um, a lotof HELOC, second liens, um, debt
consolidation loans, even taking thefirst lane at a higher, uh, interest
rate, um, but consolidating debt.
I mean, somebody's firsttime home buyers we did.
Um, a year and a half ago now.
Okay.
So in the sixes.
They'll take, you know, uh, they'lltake a 7 percent rate, you know, that,
(41:01):
you know, to consolidate their debt.
You know, you can't just think I can'tever call anyone that's been in the record
history, you know, 5 percent or 4 percentunder interest rates or 3 percent unders.
Although you got to call them too.
Okay.
Yeah.
They may not be interested as much.
But you never know their debt situation.
That's a totally different conversation.
Maybe they want to keep theirfirst lien the same and you
(41:23):
do a second lien on top of it.
Maybe you get someone todo the whole first lien.
So I agree.
That's part of like what I say at thebeginning, pivoting into new products,
not just being a realtor marketerlooking for purchase business only.
There are other things to go out and do.
Do you know what I'm saying?
Dale Vermillion (41:39):
Exactly right.
Yep.
So we talked about mentality at thebeginning and, and you were, uh, you were
on your show last night and I loved it.
You talked about how, you know, you'reone of the most knowledgeable guys in the
market as far as I'm concerned, and yetyou said, you don't watch the news yet.
You know, all the things that, youknow, and I don't watch the news either.
It's a, you know, when I tell peoplelike, well, How do you stay informed?
I'm like, well, you don't need towatch the news to stay informed.
(42:01):
In fact, that's the wrong way to do it.
You're just going to get depressed.
Talk a little bit about theimportance of positive mindset.
And you're one of the most positiveguys I've ever known in my life.
I love being around you.
You are, you're just a light man.
You're always smiling.
You're always happy.
Tell everybody how you do it.
How do you keep that positiveattitude in this marketplace?
Kevin Peranio (42:19):
Well, I start with double espresso at nine 30 and, uh,
I would, I would say that, um, youknow, um, our business is cyclical,
uh, financial services, cyclicalbusiness cycles are cyclical.
And so I know there's a better time aheadbecause we just had a really good one.
(42:41):
Right.
And so, uh, and like you said,some people are having a great
time, even now to this day.
And so, um, yeah, you know, I, I, Iwould say as it relates to business,
I, I like watching clips from CNBC.
Um, I know they slant slightly, uh, left.
Okay.
I get that.
Right.
And if something's so newsworthy,In the world, it's gonna be
(43:03):
a news alert on CNBC, right?
It's gonna come down there.
Like if there was, you know, uh, uh,a fire in Maui that, you know, took
down a bunch of, you know, collateraland neighborhoods, you know, praying
for the people in Lahaina, you know,it's like, you know, that would
make it to CNBC, which isn't a hardnews, you know, company, there's an
election year coming up next year.
Um, everyone's going to be filling24, 7 hours plus all the commercials.
(43:26):
I don't want to watch any of that.
I don't want.
my emotions played with by someone onTV about something that, to be honest,
most people aren't gonna change your mindanyway, how they think, you know, they may
get to know the candidate, you know, maybehere's some things they haven't heard.
But most people kindof have their opinions.
They formulated, you know,in their formative years.
So, um, I think having a good highEQ, that emotional quotient, that
(43:49):
emotional intelligence, is just asimportant as having a high IQ because
then I can better use my IQ by,you know, controlling my emotions.
So, um, I don't need to watch,you know, the news, especially
when it comes to politics.
I'm interested in finding outmath, science, data, and facts
and how that impacts our business,how that's impacting the market.
(44:12):
What are some trends that I'm seeing?
What's some data that I'm seeing?
You know, let's say a year ago.
Okay, you saw rates go up.
You're just just just a consumer.
You're not, you know, you're not init immersed in every day like we are.
And you saw rates go up from thelowest in history in February of 22.
To a super high amount by June.
You're like, whoa, that was fast.
(44:33):
It was a crash coming.
There's a crash coming.
Okay.
There was a crash before.
Okay.
There's a crash coming.
There's a crash.
No way.
It's gotta be a crash.
When this happens, I'm going to sit back.
I'm going to wait for rates to go down.
I'm gonna wait for home price to go down.
You know what?
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
And last November and November 22, wesaw that peak in rates and we saw home
(44:54):
prices stopped declining, at leastslightly declined from June to November.
I was banging that drum.
Now is your last, best, goodtime to get in the house.
Because in the spring, it's seasonal.
People are going to come outno matter what the rates are.
They need to move for thesummer, for the new school year.
That's when it happens.
That's why people are getting intheir house now, here in the middle
(45:16):
of August, leading into the new schoolyear, leading into Labor Day weekend,
and then it starts to slow down.
It doesn't matter all that stuff you seeon TV, or raids, or the crash bros that
are out there saying it's a doomsday.
They were all wrong, and ifyou waited, you were wrong.
You missed an opportunity to create.
And to get a good price now, home priceshave gone up again in the last year.
(45:38):
They may slide a little bit again atthe end of this year with rates being
elevated, but again, I still think towardsthe end of the year, going into next
year, we're that much closer to springpurchase season again, where things get
busy and we're also that much closerto whenever the fed may cut rates.
Or when rates may stabilize.
So that means that everyone comes outwhen rates are lower, there's more
(46:01):
demand, more people can afford it.
And so, you know, if you listen to thenews and they're wrong and you don't
listen to your trusted advisor, yeah,okay, maybe they're an originator.
They're just trying to sell me.
They're trying to do a loan.
Okay.
But they're going to makeyou think of something.
Then you can go look for yourself.
And look at other pieces of informationother than maybe listening, you
know, uh, to Diana on CNBC, you know,whose lean is negative all the time.
(46:25):
Right?
So maybe you go out andyou learn some of the math.
You're like, wow, I was wrong.
Home prices went up thisyear with high rates.
You know why?
Because rates aren't volatile.
Okay, these are the going rates.
So I actually think theopposite will happen.
If we see even a slight dip inrates coming down now that bars have
seen for a year and a half goingon two years, this rain explosion.
(46:48):
Yeah.
This little range.
Okay.
It's bouncing into the highfives up to the mid sevens.
If I see it break downbelow six again, boom.
All right.
More people, I think, are goingto jump on it than they did the
last time it went to the low 60s.
That's right.
Because I've seen thisbefore with my own eyes.
And so these are things that you tryand, you know, communicate to borrowers.
You try and be non emotional about it.
(47:10):
You try and hit them with, you know,facts and trends and math and science
and data to be able to help themwith this highly emotional decision
for them as a first time homebuyer.
That's
Dale Vermillion (47:20):
great.
That's awesome.
Well, great stuff as always KP.
I want to close with the lastquestion I ask all of my guests.
Um, and it's, it's this, weall have mentors in our life.
I'm a firm believer.
You have to have mentors to succeed.
I'd love to hear from you who hasbeen the mentors in your life and
how powerful do you think that is?
And the listeners or watchers ofthis podcast, how important is it for
(47:43):
them to have a mentor in their life?
to succeed.
Kevin Peranio (47:45):
Well, my mentor, uh, passed away 2.
5 years ago.
So that was my father.
And, uh, yeah, yeah, I mean, youknow, Parkinson's, you know, went
through Parkinson's for 22 years,you know, and and so, but, but you
want to talk about a hardship, right?
Like I watched him battle.
Degenerative neurological disease thatstripped away his voice, his ability
(48:08):
to communicate his loud, booming voicethat he would, you know, yell from the
soccer sidelines as me and my sisterwere kids, you know, or when he was, you
know, behind the helm of a sailboat ina regatta, you know, tap, tap, you know,
watching him take charge and lead andusing his brilliant mind and teaching
me calculus as I was going through highschool, you know, like I, I missed that.
(48:28):
Right.
And I think a lot of people.
Um, I would say, um, would saytheir mother or their father as
their mentor, which is why it's soimportant that we help families.
Stay together and build thatunit, you know, cause we're
helping build that mentor.
Um, beyond that, you know, I have,um, some great people that I work
with, uh, the founders of PRMG,uh, Paul Rozo, Robert holiday.
(48:51):
I really look up to them.
Um, even though they're mypartners, I still, you know, look
up to those guys in business.
Um, they, they, I learnedfrom them every day.
Gary Malice is my partner as well.
Um, great guys, great guys, youknow, and, um, and Herb Lewis.
You know, he works together with us.
Um, he works, I love her.
I mean, you know, he, he, he likesto say I'm two days older than dirt.
(49:16):
And, uh, he, he, he has been around.
Um, he had been around, uh, when AngeloMozilla had one wholesale office.
And Herb was in charge andhis first week on the job,
Angelo told her, I need a list.
I need you to, I need you to giveme, I need you to give me 20 names.
You know, he's like, yeah, it'sgoing to do a reduction of force.
Like his first week on the job,you know, learning that countrywide
(49:38):
way of looking at business.
And then I would say my first real mentorin the business, uh, is Leslie Inman.
And, um, she helped mentor me, uh, whenI first started for First Magnus back in
Austin, Texas, uh, in 2001 as a wholesaleaccount executive, and she still works.
With us here at PRMG to this day.
Um, I love, you know, bouncing things offof her, um, as a female, very empowered,
(50:01):
intelligent, highly successful female.
I get a great, um, you know, way,uh, uh, you know, uh, to, to think
about things in business and ofcourse, my mother, I love my mother.
She's the strongest can be.
Uh, you know, there's apower outage in Texas.
When the Ercot thing went down, all thepower lines went down and I'm talking
to my mom on the cell phone and um,you know, she's like three days of
(50:23):
no power in her house in the winter.
And I'm like, are you okay, mom?
She's like, yeah, youknow, I'm just bundled up.
I can see my breathhere in the living room.
I'm like, mom, you're 70, 77 years old.
You know, like, do youwant me to pay for a hotel?
Like, I'll get you in a place.
No, I'm fine.
I got a fire.
You know, it's like, kind of joining some,you know, so just just someone who's just,
(50:46):
you know, self reliant, doesn't complain.
Nobody cares.
Nobody listens anyway.
You know, so it just, youknow, those I would say are my
mentors in life and in business.
Awesome.
Yeah.
It's awesome.
Awesome.
Dale Vermillion (50:58):
Well, KP, I can't thank you enough for taking the time.
I know how busy you are onyour vacation with your family.
Kevin Peranio (51:02):
You're going to tell all of us yours?
Dale Vermillion (51:05):
Well, no, I, I, you're the guest, but I've, I've had many.
Well, certainly it was my mom and dad.
And, uh, actually I, I had acouple coming through the business.
One of the guys that also passed recently,a couple of years ago, a guy by the
name of Bob Janning was the Hardestguy I ever worked for in my life.
And I learned more from him thanI ever learned from anybody.
I mean, he, I used to have a signin my office that said the beatings
(51:29):
will continue until morale improves.
They're because of Bob, but man,did I learn a lot from that guy?
And I learned one important thingthat your mentors sometimes are
the toughest people in your life.
And what you got to do is quitcomplaining about how tough they are.
And just listen to what theygot to say to you, because.
If you can read between all of the,all of the expletives and all of
(51:51):
the, the, the harshness, sometimesthere's some absolute gold in there
that you can get out of that and.
He was one of my, mybiggest mentors by far.
Kevin Peranio (52:00):
So I love that.
I love the tough leadership.
I have, uh, I have this whoop bandand I don't know if you're, if you're
people can see there, but it basicallysaid, yeah, it says KP never quit.
And this is what I had writtenon there before I bought it.
It says, nobody cares.
Work harder.
That's it.
Love it.
awesome.
No one wants to hear it.
Short, sweet, and to the point.
(52:21):
No wants to hear your complaints.
You know her Herb Lewis is whatmy mentors, he says all the time.
He's like, he's like, how you doing?
He's like, uh, no complaints.
Nobody cares.
Nobody listens.
. Dale Vermillion: I love.
Well, KP, it is great to seeyou, great to be with you.
Go enjoy time with your family.
I love you.
Thank you greatly my friend.
Appreciate you.
Thanks for being part of this.
(52:41):
God bless you, my friend.
God bless you.
Love you too, ma'am.
Well,
Dale Vermillion (52:46):
that'll do it for this month's, uh, betting a thousand.
So glad to have KP with us and,uh, hope you guys learn a lot.
I know that you did, cause thatwas just gold from start to finish.
Y'all have a great month.
This month.
We'll see you on the next one.
God bless.
And we'll see you soon.
Thanks everybody.
Batting a thousand is aproduction of mortgage champions.
A company that's been transforming thepeople who transform companies since 1995.
(53:09):
Have a suggested topic or guestcontact my team on Twitter.
That's at Dale Vermillion or tweetus using the hashtag batting 1000.
That's hashtag batting 1000.
I don't even know if the old adage even gets said anymore, but,
um, you know, it used to be, um, cheaper,uh, cheaper, better, faster, pick two.
And if there's anything that Amazonhas really tried to build and show.
Is you can be all three to some leveland I purposely say better first.
I say better, faster, cheaper.
You, you gotta say, you gottasay better first because, um,
(00:25):
as an originator, that's the onething that you control, right?
I, I choose my environment, how Ioperate, how I communicate and my value
proposition as an individual originator.
Okay.
And that's better.
I'm better, right?
So me as me as a person, notmy company, not my tech stack.
Not my channel, not how I do business,me and how all together I combine
(00:49):
all those things and how it worksfor me, I'm better at that respect.
That's why you say better first.
And that's what better is.
Voice Over (01:00):
You're listening to batting 1000 with Dale Vermillion,
where heavy hitters from mortgage,real estate, and business share their
secrets for lasting success with yourhost award winning sales strategist
and industry icon, Dale Vermillion.
Dale Vermillion (01:14):
All right.
Welcome to batting a thousandwhere we talk to the heavy
hitters in the mortgage arena.
And I am super, super delightedto have a great guest.
I'm wearing my Dr.
Pepper t shirt for a reason, because notonly is this guy a Texas original like Dr.
Pepper, but he's one ofa kind, just like Dr.
Pepper.
And that's what I love about him.
Uh, today I've got Kevin Peranio.
(01:35):
And if you don't know thatname, you're not in the mortgage
business because KP is everywhere.
Um, he is the chieflending officer for PRMG.
Um, uh, Paramount, uh,Residential Mortgage Group.
Uh, they have been around for a long time.
They are the company that was builtby originators for originators.
Uh, they have been a wholesalelender, have helped so many people
(01:58):
in our industry over the years.
Prior to that, he spent time,um, as a regional vice president.
He spent time as aChief Operating Officer.
He is a well known name andface in the mortgage industry.
You might have seen him on KP TalksDollars and Cents on LinkedIn because he
does that like 2 o'clock in the morningall the time is when I see him doing it.
(02:19):
Uh, he is always bringing greatinformation about the industry.
He is a fellow Vanguardthrough HousingWire.
This guy just has credentials outthe yin yang and most importantly,
he is a dear friend and that'sthe thing I value the most.
KP and I've known eachother for a long time.
KP, awesome to have you today.
Kevin Peranio (02:36):
Thank you for having me.
I, I, I love telling origin stories.
You know, how did we get started inthis business and how do we do this?
How do we do that?
Um, I saw you speak, um, at an event yearsago and I was just floored and I like,
I just went right up to you afterwards.
It's like, Oh my God, I wantyou to come speak to my team.
You're like, this is amazing, you know?
And, uh, and so I, you know, andthen we struck up our friendship,
(02:58):
uh, you know, away from just, youknow, the business aspect of it.
So thank you so much for havingme, uh, on, uh, batting a thousand.
Dale Vermillion (03:05):
Oh, absolutely.
So look, we want to talk aboutlet's talk about the market.
You know, we have seenrates consistently stay up.
Uh, you know, everybody in the industrykeeps holding their breath, hoping
the rates are going to go down.
And the fact of the matter isthey're not going to anytime soon.
Uh, we've seen rates bumping6 and a half and 7 and a half
for the last couple of months.
(03:25):
Um, you know, production has been down.
But the interesting thing and the thingI want to hear from you originally or
initially KP is this, because I knowyou're seeing the same thing I'm seeing,
I'm seeing in the marketplace wherethere are loan originators that are
absolutely rushing it in this market.
Well, 15, 18, 20, 25 loansa month consistently.
(03:47):
And that's a very small percentage.
In fact, I was just in a conversationwith the executives of ice yesterday, and
they gave the statistic that 40 percentof originators comprise 83 percent of
the production in the marketplace today.
The other 60 percent onlycreate 17 percent of that.
What I'm seeing is a realkind of haves and have nots.
We're seeing people who are crushingit and people are doing one loan a
(04:10):
month, one loan every two months, oneloan every three months limping along.
And here's my firm belief.
It always has been after 40 years.
If another originator in your marketcan do 20 loans, you can do 20 loans.
There's no reason why there's, there'sno separation or differentiation
except for two things, your attitude.
That's your mentality or,or your, or your mindset.
(04:32):
And your methodologies, theapproaches that you're taking.
So you see tons of originators, KP.
You work with hundreds of lenders,thousands and thousands of brokers
across the nation and loan officers.
Talk about what you're seeing thatis making successful loan officers
and what you're seeing that'skeeping them from being successful.
(04:54):
Give us, give us some of that KP wisdom.
Kevin Peranio (04:56):
Yeah, sure.
Well, I like that statyou just quoted from ICE.
I guess.
the 80 20 rules now, the 80 40 rule.
And, uh, you know, if people arelooking for hope, that should
be hopeful right there that thattop core group is expanding.
But, uh, yeah, you know, hopeis not a strategy, right?
Like, of course, we all hopefor the rates to come down.
We hope for that to happensooner rather than later.
(05:17):
But, you know, that's That'sa bonus if it happens when it
happens, and it will happen.
We all know that it's a cyclical business.
And so, so what are you doing?
Head down away from the noise,trying to get that 12 to 25 units
of funding, uh, production everysingle month, even in this market.
What are the tactics that you're doing?
Um, so I, I noticed a fewthings, um, just, just, you
(05:38):
know, off the top of my head.
Um, I'm seeing, um, I'm seeing peoplethat have spent time, Putting together,
uh, multiple marketing, uh, technologiescombined with their, um, sales skills.
And so, um, you know, we,we have a digital marketing
and lending team at PRMG.
We actually run stats.
On who is the most productive?
(06:00):
What are some of thesecrets to their success?
And what's interesting is, um, ifsomeone takes like, let's say, like,
they take a CRM, an automated trigger,um, you know, maybe a website and, you
know, maybe, you know, one other pieceof technology, something for video,
like a, like a social media coach orsocial coach or something like that.
Right?
So if you take 4 things, okay, and youuse them in your habits every day, right?
(06:23):
Um, that those people are moresuccessful than someone with 3.
Okay.
Certainly, someone with only 1 andso our number actually goes up.
Uh, like, we have that number.
How many systems areoriginators using now?
This is in our retail channel that wedo this, uh, distributed retail channel
that we do this analysis because I don't.
(06:43):
Have the information on our partners, butas that number goes up, um, the retention
rate for, for, um, uh, original stayingwith PRMG goes up and the success rate.
Goes up now, and so, you know,is there some causality there?
Like, okay, well, maybe when I said atthe beginning, the use of good modern
(07:05):
technology for marketing combined withtheir sales skills, well, maybe their
sales skills are better, but maybe not,you know, maybe, you know, just because
someone's a better salesperson andgrinds and does the follow up work and
is very efficient doesn't necessarilymean that they're going to have up to
8 or 9 pieces of combined technology.
And so for us, Um, as that numbermakes its way up to say eight
(07:27):
different pieces of tech allcombined together eight, right?
I mean think about that.
That's crazy But eight different piecesof tech those people are out producing
those with lower numbers, you know underfour by three fold So so that you know,
so if someone's doing You know, three orfour loans a month, and then someone's
got eight pieces of tech together.
(07:48):
You know, they're doingpotentially 9 to 12 units a month.
And then if you combine thatwith just talent in raw skills,
you know, are you following up?
Do you refuse to say no?
I will find a way to get this deal donewith this bar of his place to trust in me.
No matter what, I will call 17 differentlenders until I find a program.
(08:08):
To make this deal work.
Now that, that is like not giving up.
That is resolve.
That is grit.
And that's probably the third thing thatkind of comes to the top of my mind is
you got to get, you know, you got tobroaden out your product knowledge base.
So, so if I'm going to call 17different lenders to make a deal work,
you know, I'm delving into non QM.
(08:29):
I may be looking at some second lienstuff, second liens that are done on
bank statements only or non QM stuffthat's bank statement only, first lien.
I'm doing a cash out deal insidemy database for someone that
probably didn't even know theyneeded to consolidate their debt.
You know, I'm having these conversationsusing my sales skills and putting
it all together with my modern tech.
(08:50):
And I don't just mean like send outa bunch of emails and drip on your
clients and hope they call you.
Like, if you're doing that,you're like everybody else,
you've got to do more than that.
Right.
And that's just one piece of tech.
So those are kind of three tacticsthat I'm seeing, uh, you know, that
are working right now, happy to divedeep into any one of those or, or, uh,
talk about any topics, uh, around that.
Yeah.
Dale Vermillion (09:10):
So, so let's unpack each one of those three.
I love when you use the word grit.
Um, I just did a session with, uh, withmy clients on this and I defined grit as
being this, get really intentional today.
That's grit is we're going to get up.
We're going to get out of bed and we aregoing to be intentional about what we do.
We're not going to be reactive.
We're going to be proactive.
That's what grit is in this marketplace.
(09:32):
And man, you need a lotof it today because.
You know, the one thing weknow about today's market is
you've got to do more calls.
You've got to do more prospecting.
You've got to get outmore in your community.
You've got to do more of everythingby three to four times than what
you had to do in 2020 and 2021.
To get the same kind of numbers you gotin 2020 and 2021 because everybody's
(09:57):
business has shrunk by that amount.
Your realtors have a third.
The business they used to have,you know your builders, they're
starting to come back strong finally.
But they had a a tough time for a while,and certainly consumer activity is down
by 60 to 70% just because consumersreact to what interest rates do.
So when rates go up, activity goesdown, you've got a double and triple.
(10:20):
The amount of outbound activityyou're doing to make up for that.
So let's first unpack, cause Iknow, you know, this really well.
Let's start with the technology piece,because I've always said, you know,
for years and years and years, the keyto success is high tech, high touch.
So let's talk high tech first.
We'll come back and talk abouthigh touch in a minute, but talk
about some of those technologies.
(10:40):
You mentioned, for example, a CRM.
I see loan officers every daythat have a CRM and don't use it.
And I'm like, what are you doing?
Why would you not use that tool thatcan organize your leads, organize your
referrals, build out your systems.
Talk about what you think are the keytechnologies that really matter today.
Kevin Peranio (11:00):
Well, well, just, just so you know, you, you know,
I said the word grit on purposebecause you've been our sales guru
and trainer for several years now.
And I remember theyget really intentional.
And so, uh, I, I'm glad that sincewe're on the baseball team here,
I, I tossed you a soft pitch there.
Um, and you knocked it outof the park, by the way.
Um, uh, but you know, I, I, I joke likea year ago when things started to get
(11:24):
a little rough, um, towards the end ofJune of 22 and in July, I would say,
Um, hey, everyone has to work twice asmuch twice as hard for half the money.
And that means you need to make four timesas much effort to make the same amount of
money or, and now that rates are kind oftouching back up and that higher end of
the range again, it's back to that again.
(11:44):
And so, um, you know, being intentionalabout your actions, you know, quadrupling
your actions is super important, butwhat's great about technology and
what I always say about tech is, um,it allows you to, compress your time.
Cause time is money.
So compressing your time is, um, isabsolutely critical reducing friction.
(12:04):
Okay.
So, you know, um, having a morefrictionless experience for both
you and your team and your consumer,um, you, you know, your, your, your,
your, uh, loan partner, your barber.
Um, and then of course,scaling your business.
And so, you know, people don't thinklike, oh, this isn't a time to scale.
You absolutely can scale.
Right.
So, So, so as it relates to CRM, whichis absolutely a must, you know, um,
(12:27):
I've been in all these different, youknow, groups out there online, Facebook
groups and chat groups, and I watch, andthe big joke is, you know, someone will
post a question, what's the best CRM.
And then, you know, all the veteransin the business kind of smirk, you
know, cause it's like, you know, theanswer is the one you use, right?
So You know, if you're not usingone, well, like you said, I mean,
(12:47):
you've got this drip system.
Um, I remember when we first startedputting some of our, uh, don't worry,
it's not police, just a co star, uh,the helicopter in the background.
Um, so, uh, you know, I remembertalking to some of our top producers
about seven, eight years ago whenthey were first getting on like a real
enterprise CRM that we're using a PRMGand they were like, it's not working.
(13:08):
I go, what do you mean it's not working?
And they're like, well, I sent outall these emails and you know, um,
I'm not getting enough conversion.
Um, I was like, it doesn't work like that.
It is not a magic silver bullet.
You know, you don't just sendout emails to your database
and the loans come flooding in.
Um, that happens sometimes whenthere's a refinance market.
Um, that does happen when borrowers areall really heightened and interested
(13:29):
and in tune with what's going on.
But it is, um, it is a tip ofthe spear approach when you are
marketing to clients, either past,present, or even future prospects.
So you have to follow up with them.
You have to call them.
You know, you have to call every singleclient you've ever done business with.
(13:49):
At least once a year, ifnot once a quarter or more.
Hey, it's KP here, your trustedadvisor, your past originator, you
know, I know you haven't forgotten me.
We had such a great experience together.
What's going on right now?
You know, ask some open ended questions.
What are some things I can work with?
Are you, you know, do you need some cash?
Can we tap into your equity?
Are you thinking about moving?
Um, what are some challenges you'refacing with your debts or with your home?
(14:11):
Um, and so, you know, Technology like thathelps you leverage those conversations,
open up those conversations.
So as it relates to CRM,it's the one you use.
Now, I like to classify CRMs in,in three kind of major categories.
Um, and, and so they're all reallydifferent for each individual.
Some, some CRMs can kind of handlea couple of different things, but,
(14:34):
um, especially upfront activity.
I would say like the texting.
Functionality of a serum is superimportant for, um, for forward
marketing up funnel marketing.
This is not a past client.
You're trying to work with someone,you're trying to get them engaged
and they're, they're activelythinking about it and searching.
Right?
So their serums are really good at,like, texting and in, like, a calm stack.
(14:57):
They're a good communication tool.
Then you've got some thatare good at creating content.
Okay, so you got some that come with tonsof flyers, tons of access, tons of content
that you can shape and make your own.
You don't have to have acreative staff on your team.
You're using that CRM to createcontent that resonates with
the way you want to effectivelycommunicate as a sales professional.
(15:19):
And then what I would say is.
Um, there are, there's a thirdcategory where they integrate
with other different partners.
So my CRM will integratewith, uh, you know, multiple
different vendors that I'm using.
So like I said, if we have, um, four toeight, 10 different pieces of technology,
does my main CRM, that customerrelationship management tool, does it
(15:39):
integrate with all those other tools?
So then, so, so for us as acompany, you know, we're, we're
an enterprise, uh, company.
And, and so in my distributedretail, We had an enterprise
solution a few years ago.
One of the major ones out there and theywere really good at creating content.
But then our chief marketing officer,Paul Lucido and our marketing team
kept getting bigger and bigger.
We started investing more increating better content in house.
(16:04):
Then we even created a digitalmarketing team separate from
the traditional marketing team,creating better digital content.
So then our need for our CRM kindof evolved into, all right, well,
maybe we want our CRM to be betterat integrating with other partners.
So let's say that I integrated,uh, with mortgage champions
and deal over a million.
(16:24):
So Dale and Jake and all the team there,you guys are putting together a piece
of content that like a video, a snippetthat I really liked, or maybe a flyer.
If I'm integrated with your team,Then that CRM can pull that content
in, put it in a journey, spit it out.
And it's reducing time, uh, you know,uh, compressing time, reducing friction,
and then I can scale my business.
(16:45):
So, so we've evolved to anenterprise level CRM that integrates
with other partners and thosepartners help us create content.
So I don't have all that burdenon just my digital marketing team
and my traditional marketing team.
So that's what we classify CRMs.
And again, that's what we do.
You know, it's, it's one of manytechnology pieces in the stack.
Dale Vermillion (17:05):
Yep.
I love that.
So you've got to have, from what KP talkedabout there, you got to have that front
end capability to be able to organizeand stratify all of your leads, all of
your past customers, your database, yourprospects, your realtors, all of those
things have got to be captured in there.
And then it's got to work with the othertechnologies to be able to text message,
(17:26):
email, dial out, do all those phone calls.
You can't live in today's market withoutthat, because you need those efficiencies.
If you have to have a four X increasein your activities, because otherwise
you just run out of time in the day,if you're trying to do it manually.
So that technology becomes critical.
And then you've got to tie that toany online applications you have.
(17:46):
And you better have a back end technologythat keeps that contact and that
follow up with those borrowers duringthe process, after the process, once
they've closed, it's making sure you'reboxing in both ends of that transaction
because, you know, the mistake a lot oforiginators make is they're good on the
front end, terrible on the back end.
And then they lose thedeal in this marketplace or
(18:09):
they're bad on the front end.
So they never get to the back end becausethey just don't get it in the first place.
It's really critical.
And the one thing I want to add tothat, that I think is really important.
Um, and I know you and I both agreeon this wholeheartedly, The thing
you cannot use your technology foris to create your relationships.
(18:31):
And I love your example of the loanofficer who's emails 150 people and then
sits there and looks at his computerwaiting for something to happen.
It ain't going to happen in an 8%,seven and a half percent market.
I was, I was, you know, I've workedwith many clients, um, over the last
several months where I'm identifyingthat the loan officers are utilizing text
(18:51):
messages, not just to create interest.
But then they're trying tosell the borrower over text.
That is never going to work.
You are not going to get somebody tomake a 475, 000 financial decision,
the biggest one in their lifetime,and never talk to you, never hear from
you, never get explanation from you.
You've got to use that text messageto create the interest, to capture
(19:15):
that initial text based customer,and then layer that on by saying,
Let's have a conversation andtalk about your needs, your goals.
Things I can do for you andmove forward from there.
So tech really puts you in the game.
Kevin Peranio (19:26):
I love that point.
And let me, let me takethe other end of that.
So let's say that you're a loanofficer and you don't use tech.
Okay.
And you're like, you know what?
I take all my applications over the phone.
I get on the phone with a bar andI go through every single line
and I get to know all their needs.
Um, I get that approach and here's whyI think it can be enhanced and you, and.
(19:49):
Be more trusting of the tech.
Okay.
So let's take, let's take point of sale.
For example, you know, we'reon blend 60 percent of our
fundings and retail are on blend.
I mean, you know, everyone'sgot their opinions.
I think it's by far the bestpoint of sale in the industry.
And no one's like evenclips is my opinion.
And there are various reasons for that.
But, um, but what I would say is let'ssay that I, you know, give me an example.
(20:11):
So I send out, uh, I, I, I get anappointment or I call the bar and I'm
going through the loan application.
You know, um, how manydependents do you have, Mr.
Perennial?
Um, I have four.
Um, how old are they?
Um, they're four, six, eight, and ten.
Okay, so I'm writing it down.
Now, because I'm on the phone andI'm asking every single question,
you know, In the interest of time,you might not take that further
(20:36):
that I just talked about, because atthe end of the app, you have to go.
Are you a co endorser on?
I know.
Oh, what does that mean?
Explain that?
Have you ever been in foreclosure?
Are you will be able to go throughall the declarations on the back?
Right?
So so this is where trusting techand a point of sale is great.
Let let a consumer letme, you could text him.
(20:56):
You could email me.
Call me.
Let me send you the link.
Fill out this application.
Fill out as much as you can.
Let's set an appointmentto go over it together.
I'm going to review it before I get onthe phone with you in the interest of Your
time and my time, we're going to, because,because, you know, saving time for your
consumer shows, you care about them too.
So they, you know, they don'tnecessarily want to spend an hour
(21:18):
with you going through all thosestupid, you know, things when they
can probably, you know, knock it out.
They may be very fast and intelligent.
They may be smart, especiallyif it's a millennial, they're
probably a lot smarter than me.
They could probably fill outas much of that link than I can
verbally say, go over on the phone.
I mean, You're disrespectingtheir time sitting on the lake.
Get the app back, set up an appointment.
Then now here's how it goes.
(21:39):
All right.
So now I'm talking to you.
Hey, Mr.
Perennial, I see you have four kids.
Holy smokes.
That's amazing.
Are you trying to buy a house?
you know, better for their school.
Are you looking because I have somerealtors that know the school districts
can give you more information.
Is that why you're making this move now?
In that same amount of time,that was so much more impactful
in relationship building thanhow many children do you have?
(22:00):
What are their ages?
Then let me type them down.
Because you already saw it beforeyou got on the phone, you reviewed it
and you had a more impactful amountof time by talking about that stuff.
And I don't even need tolook at the declaration.
So they already filled all those littlecheck boxes out and I can tell, you
know, whether they're wrong or not.
And if I need to go over it, so, sojust taking a loan application with
(22:21):
a technology piece of point of sale.
It's such a big difference for bothyour time and the consumer's time.
Don't disrespect theconsumer's time either.
They don't want to sit on the phone andhave you walk them through everything.
And that's just one of manyaspects of the business.
You know, it gets a lot more heated asthe deadline comes for the contract later.
So if you had a better experienceupfront and you were available upfront
(22:42):
and you communicated back and forth upfront in an efficient manner, they're
going to have a lot less heat on them.
And you, when things get closerto the deadline at the end,
Dale Vermillion (22:51):
That's rich.
That's, that's so powerful.
And you know, that dovetails so much whatI've taught forever is that what you have
to do, you know, I get the question a lot.
So what's the right wayto do an application?
And the answer is you combine both.
You combine the technology advantageof an online application with the
(23:12):
human advantage of a telephoneconversation is what you have to do.
You have to create that hightech, high touch approach.
And the mistake that I see time andtime and time and time again in today's
marketplaces, Owners should just shootoff a link, and the next call they make
is not to go back and talk about the kids.
It's not to go back and review whatyou're trying to do with the home.
It's not to go back and selltheir realtor to that customer.
(23:34):
So you enhance yourrelationship with your realtor.
It's not to go back and dig in on theirdebt to understand how we can build the
best restructure for them on a refinance.
You know what their next call is.
Okay, I've got you approved.
Let me make you my offer.
Wait a minute.
Hold on a second.
You went from zero to 120with nothing in between.
(23:55):
That's literally what you did.
You, you, you gave them a,an online app to fill out.
They did it themselves.
Now you get on and you're rightto, okay, here's your payment.
Here's your rate.
Here's your call closing costs.
Here's your, here's your cost to close.
It's like, what are you doing?
Nobody's going to buy in that scenario.
You're going to createshoppers all day long.
You just
Kevin Peranio (24:15):
come up, you just commoditize yourself.
You do.
It's exactly right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Dale Vermillion (24:20):
I hear it.
I hear it all the time.
We'll just go.
Those bars are shoppers.
I go, no, you created ashopper is what you did.
They were until you made them one.
Kevin Peranio (24:29):
Yeah.
And look, I mean, rate is alwayspart of every conversation, right?
I mean, of course, you know, if, if, if,if it's just about shopping, well, let's
just send everybody to the credit union.
It's got the best ratesin the country right now.
Everyone just quit your job and sendit to that one person works at a credit
union for peanuts because they have thebest rep don't hit me with that rate
stuff because you're not number one.
(24:49):
You're not number one.
You never will be.
You're not.
There's one loan officer in the country.
Who's number one at rate now, Idon't know, but they probably work
at a credit unit and they probablydon't work for a lot of money.
And so, so just, just, you know, likeyou said, you, you have to create value.
That doesn't mean you have a bad price andyou're trying to wash over the fact that
your price may be higher than the best.
(25:11):
That's not the case andprices fluctuate all the time.
The broker channel had horrendouspricing during the pandemic.
The worst, because there was, it's sucha smaller percentage of the market share.
Okay, so there's too much businessflooding in for that model, for
the amount of capacity in thefew lenders that were out there.
And I got news for you, there's alot less wholesale lenders today
(25:33):
than there was three years ago.
So if we see a smidge of a rebuyboom, it's going to be the same thing.
Our model is about capacity.
Some channels have worse and betterpricing at different times in the cycle.
There's not one that's alwaysthe best at all the time.
And anyone tells you different,they are lying to you.
They are self absorbed tryingto get you to go their way.
And trust me, anyone that's aveteran in this business, they
(25:55):
know there's ups and downs.
So value is the consistent thing, right?
Your combination.
Of giving a consumer price, givingthem expertise, taking the time to
help solve problems, your productknowledge, you know, how you
communicate, do you resonate them?
Does your tech marry intogether with all that?
That's what makes someonespecial as an originator.
(26:17):
That is the thing that makes themthe most special that I would
combine and call it altogether value.
Dale Vermillion (26:23):
Yeah, that's well, well, well said KP.
That's exactly the truthas to what the problem is.
It's like I've said all the time, there'salways a cheaper and there's always a
faster, but that don't make them a better.
And, and you got to understand that Isee loan officers too many times bank on
two things, their price and their speed.
Hey, I've got great ratesand I can close in two weeks.
(26:43):
Well, you know what?
I would wait four weeks if it was abetter loan, to be honest with you.
And they do?
Yeah, that's right.
And they absolutely do.
So, we've got to understand thatthat value proposition of how you
create that white glove customerexperience, and you only do that
when you establish a relationship.
So, when we talk about high tech, hightouch, it's having that technology
(27:05):
that allows you to create efficiencies,To, to be able to easily get access to
information from the, from the customer,like their income documentation and all
the things you do need to do to supportcommitment, but it's being able to take
that technology and still build thatpersonal human relationship, not make
it all about a, I love when you said amoment ago, you know, the loan officer
(27:27):
taking the application, Sarah was, soyou got, how many dependents do you have?
I mean, I've said this my whole career.
Yeah.
You don't walk into a room at your20 year high school reunion, see
your best friend from high school,four kids and go, man, those are the
cutest dependents I've ever seen.
They would think there wassomething wrong with you.
That's like saying nice tax deductions.
You're going to saywhat beautiful children.
(27:48):
And nobody talks like that todaybecause we're so quick taking a nap.
So we've got to buildthat, that human side.
Kevin Peranio (27:56):
I love, I love that.
Well, you, it's funny cause you know,um, I don't even know if the old adage
even gets said anymore, but, um, youknow, it used to be, um, cheaper,
uh, cheaper, better, faster pick two.
Right.
So, so that, that was the old adage.
And if there's anything thatAmazon has really tried to build
and show is you can be all three.
(28:17):
To some level, but I'vebeen banging the drum.
I put out a lot of content in theindustry and I purposely say better.
1st, I say better, faster, cheaper.
Right?
Right.
And I said that 1st, I'vebeen banging that drum.
I say it that way on purposeand I'm very flattered.
I see some marketing departmentspiggybacking off that.
I love seeing it out there.
They're not giving me any creditfor it, but you got to say, you
(28:40):
got to say better 1st, because.
As an originator, that's the onething that you control, right?
I choose my environment, how I operate,how I communicate, and my value
proposition as an individual originator.
Okay.
And that's better.
I'm better.
Right?
So me as me as a person, not mycompany, not my tech stack, not my
(29:02):
channel, not how I do business, meand how all together I combine all
those things and how it works for me.
I'm better in that respect.
That's why you say better first.
And that's what better is now.
I think faster.
Second.
Because speed has to do withanything that any of us can control.
There's some things you don't control.
Okay.
(29:22):
There's like
Dale Vermillion (29:23):
realtors and how fast
we lost your audio for a minute.
There we go.
You're back.
Yeah, sorry.
Kevin Peranio (29:35):
So, so the second thing I like to say is, is, uh, faster, right?
Cause cause faster means that you'retrying to respect the time of your
consumer, your bar, your partner.
And of course you're faster.
Now there are some things that youdon't control when it comes to speed,
how fast realtors are taking how fastbars, you know, get documents back.
That did not send you thelast page, the bank statement.
(29:58):
It says this page left intentionallyblank, but you need all page of
the bank statements, you know,that little back and forth, right?
But if you grasp tech.
And you use day 1 certainty, andyou got it from the beginning.
When they enter their bankinformation and username and
password, it was all automated.
And then dumped in the loanoriginator system and under it faster.
Cheaper is always third becausecheap sounds cheap, right?
(30:19):
It's cheap, you know, and again, you know,a price play inherently means someone's
cutting a corner somewhere on something.
Okay.
And, um, it may be cuttinga corner on profitability.
To raise rates later at a different time.
All right.
And so cheaper can't be trusted.
Okay.
(30:39):
Consistency and love thatconsistency in price can be trusted.
Cause I'll say it again.
The number one cheapest, absoluteonly lender and or origin in America.
It's only one place and we don'tall send their loans to them.
So, um, if someone is consistentlycheaper and they don't jack the rates,
they didn't jack up the rates whenthings got busy, they're consistently
(31:02):
putting out a consistent price.
That builds trust, especiallywith a lender and the originator.
And so I always go better,faster, cheaper in that order.
Dale Vermillion (31:14):
And look, I, you know, when you use the word cheaper,
you're setting the wrong connotation.
I prefer to replace thatwith the word competitive.
Yes, you're competitive.
Because you mentioned it.
Cheaper is something that if you createthat mindset with the borrower, they're
never going to stop chasing that.
They're going to keep lookingfor the cheaper and cheaper
and cheaper and cheaper.
(31:34):
So I love the way that you built that out.
That's absolutely true.
Let's talk for a minute about speed.
Because.
Here's been my inherent belief forthe 40 years I've been in the business
is that speed is way more importantto the loan originator than to the
borrower in 99 percent of the cases.
There are very few times when aborrower actually needs you to
close in lightning fast speed.
(31:55):
What matters to the borrower whenit comes to speed and what matters
to the partner when it comes tospeed Is your responsiveness.
Yes.
Not your days from application tofund all the realtor cares about.
Just get it done before the contract date.
That's it.
That's all they wanna know.
That's it.
You know, don't be, don't don't be callingme at three o'clock in the afternoon
(32:16):
with a three 30 closing and saying.
I just got my CTC.
That's going to drive them crazy.
You'll never get business from them again.
What they want is, they don't careif you're two weeks or three weeks.
If it's a 30 day contract, have itdone in 29 days for me and I'm fine.
I'm okay with that.
What the borrower and the realtor wantis, return my phone calls quickly.
(32:37):
When I give you a referral, callmy customer right away and show
them the same kind of level ofservice that I'm showing them.
So that literally when they hangup the phone, they're calling me
back as a realtor and saying, wow,that loan officer you referred me
to, I got off the phone with you.
And my phone was ringing fromthem immediately saying, I'm
(32:58):
a partner with this realtor.
I'm here to get your loan done becausewhen you are responsive like that,
they already know you're going to begood at what you do the entire process.
You prove it right from the get go.
It's, it's interesting, KP.
You're going to love this.
We've been doing secret choppercalls with all of our clients.
Uh, my daughter, Jessica, beenin the business five years.
(33:19):
I got her in the mortgagebusiness five years ago.
She's working for me now.
So I said, here's what I want you to do.
You you're, you were an actress, youknow, the business inside and out.
I want you to start callingour clients loan officers
and let's get some good data.
Well, we've now made abouta hundred phone calls.
You know, we found.
You know, we found the data is on howlong the average call takes from the
(33:40):
time she leaves a message on theirvoicemail saying, Hey, I'm a new buyer.
I'm thinking about buying a home.
I'd like to talk to you about,you know, just how that works
and what your rates are.
It's over three and a half hoursbefore she gets a phone call and only
about 55 percent even return the phonecall within the first three days.
(34:01):
It's unbelievable.
So, you know, you see that it's likeyour problem isn't your technology.
Your problem isn't your products.
Your problem isn't your pricing.
Your problem is you're not responsive.
So talk a little bit about whatyou see in that, in the business.
How vitally important responsive is.
Kevin Peranio (34:18):
Yeah.
You know, so, so as chief lendingofficer, I oversee three channels.
So we have wholesale correspondent,um, which includes non delegated and,
uh, uh, delegated and then retail.
So I, you know, we saybuilt by originators.
Built for originals by originals fora reason because we don't we don't
care what channel they want to be on.
(34:39):
They all they're all differentin their own way, right?
So, um, so we're trying to servethem and in a purchase heavy
market, you know between that trichannel mix We did about a billion
dollars in may and june each month.
Wow about nine.
Well, 92 percent purchase Okay, sothe the purchase percentage typically
is the highest in retail and thengets a lot a little bit lower in
(35:00):
wholesale And then even lower in ourcorresponding channel Um, but all of
them are pretty elevated right nowbecause, you know, rates are high.
So most of it's a purchase.
So to your point, yougot a sales contract.
You're not going to make the sellerlike move out quicker, you know,
uh, unless they unless they askyou, uh, your bar probably doesn't
want to get rid of their money.
(35:21):
Uh, more quickly.
You know, maybe they, they gotta, youknow, they, they need to move, you
know, they gotta organize moving, youknow, they're probably not gonna do it.
Yep.
You know, in seven days, which isthe, the least amount of time that
a loan application is allowed toget done, you know, per regulation.
So, um, and that's withan appraisal waiver.
So, so, you know, for us, I agree, it's,it's responsiveness and, and here's,
here's, I mean, first of all, um, for theones that did call back three and a half
(35:44):
hours, um, it's better not calling back.
Okay?
But, but here's, here's what's crazy.
The, the first time home buyer.
Is a millennial and, um, theaverage age before this rate
spike in last year was 33.
Now it's 36.
So it tells you how less affordableloans have gotten and you had to, you
know, now our average age of first timehome buyers a little higher because
(36:05):
that affordability element still stillin that millennial range and the way
that they look at responsiveness.
Um, we saw lead conversion.
Um, these statistics are withinfive minutes, five minutes.
Okay.
So five minutes when, whenthey borrow, when your daughter
called, okay, what she expects.
Okay.
(36:25):
And what the data shows us forsomeone that's actually doing alone.
Not a fake secret shopper.
Okay.
Is 5 minutes you call back in a minute.
You're golden.
If you don't call back within 5minutes, you, your, your retention and
conversion rate of that bar is is 10%.
So, wow.
So it's 10%.
So, wow.
(36:45):
So you have to call back in 5 minutes.
So that's why that's whyusing tech is good, right?
Something that.
Responds to Jessica says, Hey, youknow, you know, I saw what you called.
Here's a text schedule my calendarexactly when the time works for you
and I and someone get back to you.
Some people even have answering servicesthat will pick up the phone within
(37:07):
that first call or within five minutes.
Dale Vermillion (37:09):
Yep.
Kevin Peranio (37:09):
And call on behalf of the loan officer.
You don't have to be like, just likeyou don't have to take the entire loan
application and be the only persontalking to bar the whole way through.
And you could use a point of sale.
You also don't have to be the onlyperson that talks to the bar, the entire
process, you can have someone else.
It's okay to give up control becauseif you don't, You will not scale your
(37:31):
business and you will lose a lot of it.
And so, you know, so yeah, we agree.
Responsiveness is, um, it shows you care.
It's absolutely critical.
And, uh, and you've gotthe data to back it up.
Dale Vermillion (37:44):
So let me ask you one more question.
Then I want to ask you the finalquestion of, of, of the interview.
Um, I'm seeing on my end thatthe clients that I'm having,
they're the most successful.
Right now and, and I've got clientsthat are literally beating their plans
from last year and the year before.
So they're beating 2021 and2023, if you can believe that.
I
Kevin Peranio (38:03):
believe it.
Dale Vermillion (38:04):
The way that they're, yeah, the way that they're doing it
is they are not buying into the factthat this is a purchase only market.
They are doing a ton of refinances.
Yes.
They're doing a ton of cash out.
Eliminations because the consumerdebt is the highest in US history.
We're well over a trillion dollars incredit card debt for the first time ever.
Home equity loans andlines are through the roof.
(38:25):
Auto loans are over $40,000 fora new car loan average this year.
In 2023.
Rates are in the 20 on creditcards in the teens, on car loans,
and in the teens on home equity.
And everybody's looking at this sixand a half, seven, seven and a half
percent and thinking how awful that is.
Well, compared to 23 percent and14 percent and all these other,
you combined that, you've gotsome incredible opportunities.
(38:48):
Are you seeing the same thing out therein, in what you're seeing from your level?
Kevin Peranio (38:52):
Yes, we're seeing, um, you know, um, this whole talk about
recession and, you know, rememberwe're supposed to be in one right now.
Maybe, maybe we were lastyear, maybe it's coming.
I mean, that's goingto come at some point.
Right.
But.
Even though the Fed just said itain't happening, but as, um, economies
slow down, as, um, higher interestrates shrink our economies grow,
(39:17):
the more the economy goes in thatdirection, the more people need cash.
The more that's right.
Time has built up since the good timeswhen they were spending, you know, um,
you know, habitually and maybe theydon't want to break that habit, right?
That's why you have nested equity.
So people have record equity.
I mean, record equity and, and, youknow, um, not all death is a bad
(39:39):
thing, especially if you alreadyhave debt, you must just consolidate
your debt into one place or abetter combined monthly payment.
Okay.
Use that home.
That's right.
So the debt consolidation tool, youknow, our good friend Barry, you
know, we love their tools over there.
MBS Highway.
We love
Dale Vermillion (39:54):
Barry.
Kevin Peranio (39:54):
They're great.
Um, so, you know, having those kindsof tools out there and putting it,
you know, integrated in your CRM andpushing out that kind of content, um,
you know, having those kinds of thing.
Mortgage Coach.
You know, obviously, uh, Dave Savage,they do a good job there to, you
know, having these kinds of thingsto talk about these conversations.
That's great.
You got tech, you got thesepresentations, you get them out.
Then you have to have a conversation.
(40:15):
I'm your debt advisor.
I'm your trusted advisor.
Um, I think that's whatBarry and his team called it.
Like I'm a debt advisor, right?
So let me help you consolidate your debt.
Let me help you, you know, 250bucks, 350 bucks extra a month.
That's meaningful.
Uh, especially as you get closerto a slowing, uh, economy recession
and no recession, people are like,want that little comfort level.
(40:39):
So yeah, we're seeing, um, a lotof HELOC, second liens, um, debt
consolidation loans, even taking thefirst lane at a higher, uh, interest
rate, um, but consolidating debt.
I mean, somebody's firsttime home buyers we did.
Um, a year and a half ago now.
Okay.
So in the sixes.
They'll take, you know, uh, they'lltake a 7 percent rate, you know, that,
(41:01):
you know, to consolidate their debt.
You know, you can't just think I can'tever call anyone that's been in the record
history, you know, 5 percent or 4 percentunder interest rates or 3 percent unders.
Although you got to call them too.
Okay.
Yeah.
They may not be interested as much.
But you never know their debt situation.
That's a totally different conversation.
Maybe they want to keep theirfirst lien the same and you
(41:23):
do a second lien on top of it.
Maybe you get someone todo the whole first lien.
So I agree.
That's part of like what I say at thebeginning, pivoting into new products,
not just being a realtor marketerlooking for purchase business only.
There are other things to go out and do.
Do you know what I'm saying?
Dale Vermillion (41:39):
Exactly right.
Yep.
So we talked about mentality at thebeginning and, and you were, uh, you were
on your show last night and I loved it.
You talked about how, you know, you'reone of the most knowledgeable guys in the
market as far as I'm concerned, and yetyou said, you don't watch the news yet.
You know, all the things that, youknow, and I don't watch the news either.
It's a, you know, when I tell peoplelike, well, How do you stay informed?
I'm like, well, you don't need towatch the news to stay informed.
(42:01):
In fact, that's the wrong way to do it.
You're just going to get depressed.
Talk a little bit about theimportance of positive mindset.
And you're one of the most positiveguys I've ever known in my life.
I love being around you.
You are, you're just a light man.
You're always smiling.
You're always happy.
Tell everybody how you do it.
How do you keep that positiveattitude in this marketplace?
Kevin Peranio (42:19):
Well, I start with double espresso at nine 30 and, uh,
I would, I would say that, um, youknow, um, our business is cyclical,
uh, financial services, cyclicalbusiness cycles are cyclical.
And so I know there's a better time aheadbecause we just had a really good one.
(42:41):
Right.
And so, uh, and like you said,some people are having a great
time, even now to this day.
And so, um, yeah, you know, I, I, Iwould say as it relates to business,
I, I like watching clips from CNBC.
Um, I know they slant slightly, uh, left.
Okay.
I get that.
Right.
And if something's so newsworthy,In the world, it's gonna be
(43:03):
a news alert on CNBC, right?
It's gonna come down there.
Like if there was, you know, uh, uh,a fire in Maui that, you know, took
down a bunch of, you know, collateraland neighborhoods, you know, praying
for the people in Lahaina, you know,it's like, you know, that would
make it to CNBC, which isn't a hardnews, you know, company, there's an
election year coming up next year.
Um, everyone's going to be filling24, 7 hours plus all the commercials.
(43:26):
I don't want to watch any of that.
I don't want.
my emotions played with by someone onTV about something that, to be honest,
most people aren't gonna change your mindanyway, how they think, you know, they may
get to know the candidate, you know, maybehere's some things they haven't heard.
But most people kindof have their opinions.
They formulated, you know,in their formative years.
So, um, I think having a good highEQ, that emotional quotient, that
(43:49):
emotional intelligence, is just asimportant as having a high IQ because
then I can better use my IQ by,you know, controlling my emotions.
So, um, I don't need to watch,you know, the news, especially
when it comes to politics.
I'm interested in finding outmath, science, data, and facts
and how that impacts our business,how that's impacting the market.
(44:12):
What are some trends that I'm seeing?
What's some data that I'm seeing?
You know, let's say a year ago.
Okay, you saw rates go up.
You're just just just a consumer.
You're not, you know, you're not init immersed in every day like we are.
And you saw rates go up from thelowest in history in February of 22.
To a super high amount by June.
You're like, whoa, that was fast.
(44:33):
It was a crash coming.
There's a crash coming.
Okay.
There was a crash before.
Okay.
There's a crash coming.
There's a crash.
No way.
It's gotta be a crash.
When this happens, I'm going to sit back.
I'm going to wait for rates to go down.
I'm gonna wait for home price to go down.
You know what?
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
And last November and November 22, wesaw that peak in rates and we saw home
(44:54):
prices stopped declining, at leastslightly declined from June to November.
I was banging that drum.
Now is your last, best, goodtime to get in the house.
Because in the spring, it's seasonal.
People are going to come outno matter what the rates are.
They need to move for thesummer, for the new school year.
That's when it happens.
That's why people are getting intheir house now, here in the middle
(45:16):
of August, leading into the new schoolyear, leading into Labor Day weekend,
and then it starts to slow down.
It doesn't matter all that stuff you seeon TV, or raids, or the crash bros that
are out there saying it's a doomsday.
They were all wrong, and ifyou waited, you were wrong.
You missed an opportunity to create.
And to get a good price now, home priceshave gone up again in the last year.
(45:38):
They may slide a little bit again atthe end of this year with rates being
elevated, but again, I still think towardsthe end of the year, going into next
year, we're that much closer to springpurchase season again, where things get
busy and we're also that much closerto whenever the fed may cut rates.
Or when rates may stabilize.
So that means that everyone comes outwhen rates are lower, there's more
(46:01):
demand, more people can afford it.
And so, you know, if you listen to thenews and they're wrong and you don't
listen to your trusted advisor, yeah,okay, maybe they're an originator.
They're just trying to sell me.
They're trying to do a loan.
Okay.
But they're going to makeyou think of something.
Then you can go look for yourself.
And look at other pieces of informationother than maybe listening, you
know, uh, to Diana on CNBC, you know,whose lean is negative all the time.
(46:25):
Right?
So maybe you go out andyou learn some of the math.
You're like, wow, I was wrong.
Home prices went up thisyear with high rates.
You know why?
Because rates aren't volatile.
Okay, these are the going rates.
So I actually think theopposite will happen.
If we see even a slight dip inrates coming down now that bars have
seen for a year and a half goingon two years, this rain explosion.
(46:48):
Yeah.
This little range.
Okay.
It's bouncing into the highfives up to the mid sevens.
If I see it break downbelow six again, boom.
All right.
More people, I think, are goingto jump on it than they did the
last time it went to the low 60s.
That's right.
Because I've seen thisbefore with my own eyes.
And so these are things that you tryand, you know, communicate to borrowers.
You try and be non emotional about it.
(47:10):
You try and hit them with, you know,facts and trends and math and science
and data to be able to help themwith this highly emotional decision
for them as a first time homebuyer.
That's
Dale Vermillion (47:20):
great.
That's awesome.
Well, great stuff as always KP.
I want to close with the lastquestion I ask all of my guests.
Um, and it's, it's this, weall have mentors in our life.
I'm a firm believer.
You have to have mentors to succeed.
I'd love to hear from you who hasbeen the mentors in your life and
how powerful do you think that is?
And the listeners or watchers ofthis podcast, how important is it for
(47:43):
them to have a mentor in their life?
to succeed.
Kevin Peranio (47:45):
Well, my mentor, uh, passed away 2.
5 years ago.
So that was my father.
And, uh, yeah, yeah, I mean, youknow, Parkinson's, you know, went
through Parkinson's for 22 years,you know, and and so, but, but you
want to talk about a hardship, right?
Like I watched him battle.
Degenerative neurological disease thatstripped away his voice, his ability
(48:08):
to communicate his loud, booming voicethat he would, you know, yell from the
soccer sidelines as me and my sisterwere kids, you know, or when he was, you
know, behind the helm of a sailboat ina regatta, you know, tap, tap, you know,
watching him take charge and lead andusing his brilliant mind and teaching
me calculus as I was going through highschool, you know, like I, I missed that.
(48:28):
Right.
And I think a lot of people.
Um, I would say, um, would saytheir mother or their father as
their mentor, which is why it's soimportant that we help families.
Stay together and build thatunit, you know, cause we're
helping build that mentor.
Um, beyond that, you know, I have,um, some great people that I work
with, uh, the founders of PRMG,uh, Paul Rozo, Robert holiday.
(48:51):
I really look up to them.
Um, even though they're mypartners, I still, you know, look
up to those guys in business.
Um, they, they, I learnedfrom them every day.
Gary Malice is my partner as well.
Um, great guys, great guys, youknow, and, um, and Herb Lewis.
You know, he works together with us.
Um, he works, I love her.
I mean, you know, he, he, he likesto say I'm two days older than dirt.
(49:16):
And, uh, he, he, he has been around.
Um, he had been around, uh, when AngeloMozilla had one wholesale office.
And Herb was in charge andhis first week on the job,
Angelo told her, I need a list.
I need you to, I need you to giveme, I need you to give me 20 names.
You know, he's like, yeah, it'sgoing to do a reduction of force.
Like his first week on the job,you know, learning that countrywide
(49:38):
way of looking at business.
And then I would say my first real mentorin the business, uh, is Leslie Inman.
And, um, she helped mentor me, uh, whenI first started for First Magnus back in
Austin, Texas, uh, in 2001 as a wholesaleaccount executive, and she still works.
With us here at PRMG to this day.
Um, I love, you know, bouncing things offof her, um, as a female, very empowered,
(50:01):
intelligent, highly successful female.
I get a great, um, you know, way,uh, uh, you know, uh, to, to think
about things in business and ofcourse, my mother, I love my mother.
She's the strongest can be.
Uh, you know, there's apower outage in Texas.
When the Ercot thing went down, all thepower lines went down and I'm talking
to my mom on the cell phone and um,you know, she's like three days of
(50:23):
no power in her house in the winter.
And I'm like, are you okay, mom?
She's like, yeah, youknow, I'm just bundled up.
I can see my breathhere in the living room.
I'm like, mom, you're 70, 77 years old.
You know, like, do youwant me to pay for a hotel?
Like, I'll get you in a place.
No, I'm fine.
I got a fire.
You know, it's like, kind of joining some,you know, so just just someone who's just,
(50:46):
you know, self reliant, doesn't complain.
Nobody cares.
Nobody listens anyway.
You know, so it just, youknow, those I would say are my
mentors in life and in business.
Awesome.
Yeah.
It's awesome.
Awesome.
Dale Vermillion (50:58):
Well, KP, I can't thank you enough for taking the time.
I know how busy you are onyour vacation with your family.
Kevin Peranio (51:02):
You're going to tell all of us yours?
Dale Vermillion (51:05):
Well, no, I, I, you're the guest, but I've, I've had many.
Well, certainly it was my mom and dad.
And, uh, actually I, I had acouple coming through the business.
One of the guys that also passed recently,a couple of years ago, a guy by the
name of Bob Janning was the Hardestguy I ever worked for in my life.
And I learned more from him thanI ever learned from anybody.
I mean, he, I used to have a signin my office that said the beatings
(51:29):
will continue until morale improves.
They're because of Bob, but man,did I learn a lot from that guy?
And I learned one important thingthat your mentors sometimes are
the toughest people in your life.
And what you got to do is quitcomplaining about how tough they are.
And just listen to what theygot to say to you, because.
If you can read between all of the,all of the expletives and all of
(51:51):
the, the, the harshness, sometimesthere's some absolute gold in there
that you can get out of that and.
He was one of my, mybiggest mentors by far.
Kevin Peranio (52:00):
So I love that.
I love the tough leadership.
I have, uh, I have this whoop bandand I don't know if you're, if you're
people can see there, but it basicallysaid, yeah, it says KP never quit.
And this is what I had writtenon there before I bought it.
It says, nobody cares.
Work harder.
That's it.
Love it.
awesome.
No one wants to hear it.
Short, sweet, and to the point.
(52:21):
No wants to hear your complaints.
You know her Herb Lewis is whatmy mentors, he says all the time.
He's like, he's like, how you doing?
He's like, uh, no complaints.
Nobody cares.
Nobody listens.
. Dale Vermillion: I love.
Well, KP, it is great to seeyou, great to be with you.
Go enjoy time with your family.
I love you.
Thank you greatly my friend.
Appreciate you.
Thanks for being part of this.
(52:41):
God bless you, my friend.
God bless you.
Love you too, ma'am.
Well,
Dale Vermillion (52:46):
that'll do it for this month's, uh, betting a thousand.
So glad to have KP with us and,uh, hope you guys learn a lot.
I know that you did, cause thatwas just gold from start to finish.
Y'all have a great month.
This month.
We'll see you on the next one.
God bless.
And we'll see you soon.
Thanks everybody.
Batting a thousand is aproduction of mortgage champions.
A company that's been transforming thepeople who transform companies since 1995.
(53:09):
Have a suggested topic or guestcontact my team on Twitter.
That's at Dale Vermillion or tweetus using the hashtag batting 1000.
That's hashtag batting 1000.
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