May 5, 2025 • 44 mins
In real estate, relationships aren’t just a bonus—they’re the foundation.
Few understand that better than Michael Tomlin, one of the top 1.5% of agents in the country and a top 5% Coldwell Banker producer globally four years running. Based on Florida’s Emerald Coast, Michael has built a thriving real estate business on one principle: relationships over transactions.
In this episode, Dale and Michael unpack:
✅ How the NAR settlement is actually playing out
✅ What agents want from lenders (beyond rates)
✅ The #1 deal killer—and how to avoid it
✅ Why niche products and problem-solving matter
✅ How faith and family fuel Michael’s success
Whether you're in lending, real estate, or both, this conversation is a masterclass in how to build trust, deliver value, and stay ahead in a changing market.
#RealEstate #MortgageLending #LoanOfficers #NARSettlement #MichaelTomlin #DaleVermillion #Batting1000
About Michael Tomlin
Michael Tomlin is a top-performing real estate professional on Florida’s Emerald Coast, ranked among the top 1.5% of agents nationwide by America’s Best in both 2023 and 2024. He has earned Coldwell Banker’s International President’s Circle Award for four consecutive years—an honor reserved for the top 5% of agents globally.
Known for his “relationships over transactions” approach, Michael has built a reputation for integrity, dedication, and deep local expertise. He specializes in condos, single-family homes, first-time buyers, and new construction. When he’s not helping clients navigate the real estate market, Michael enjoys life as a devoted husband and father of four.
Connect with Michael
Instagram → instagram.com/mrmichaeltomlin
Facebook → facebook.com/michaeltomlinrealestate
LinkedIn → linkedin.com/in/michael-tomlin-9b183b112
YouTube → youtube.com/c/itsmichaeltomlin
About Dale Vermillion
Dale Vermillion, an industry icon, has trained over 1,000,000 lending professionals and worked with more than 600 organizations. He is a three-time HousingWire Vanguard, a member of the 2022 Global Mortgage 100, and the author of Navigating the Mortgage Maze. Dale is also the founder of Mortgage Professionals Providing Hope.
Connect with Dale
LinkedIn → linkedin.com/in/dalevermillion
YouTube → youtube.com/@DaleVermillion
Facebook → facebook.com/dalevermillionofficial
Website → dalevermillion.com
Email → listen@dalevermillion.com
About Batting 1,000
Batting 1,000 with Dale Vermillion is a production of Mortgage Champions. The show is produced and edited by Jake Vermillion. Music by Envato Elements.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dale Vermillion (00:05):
All right.
Hello everybody and welcome backto Betting a thousand where we
talk with the heavy hitters in themortgage and real estate industry.
And today I've got a real treatfor you guys 'cause I've got a
a, a good friend, um, Michael OldTomlin and his wife Caroline, are
good friends with Laurel and I.
And Michael is a top realestate agent in the country.
(00:25):
He is literally, um, one of the top oneand a half percent of agents, um, in the
country by America's best and Real Trends.
He's a top 1000 agent in Florida.
He's a top 5% of Coldwell Banker, um,agents globally, four years consecutively.
This guy sells some real estate.
He knows the business inside and out.
He's just an absolutely great guy, um,and a great family man, and a dear friend.
(00:50):
So Michael, great to have you with us.
Glad to be here.
Thank you.
So, Michael, let's talk todayabout, I, I guess we'll start with
the topic, um, before we get into.
Talking with you about how to work withmortgage lenders and loan options and all
that stuff, but everybody's been talkingabout the NAR settlement that's been top
(01:11):
of mind for most real estate and mortgageprofessionals over the last 90 days.
I personally have said many times,I think it's much ado about nothing.
Mm-hmm.
And I know that as we kindof talked offline mm-hmm.
Uh, you've got some of the samefeelings, but, you know, it is a, it
is a major shift that we're seeing.
In the industry.
There's no question about that.
(01:31):
Yeah.
Uh, love to hear from your perspectivewhat you are seeing on the ground as
to the impact from the NR settlement.
And not only that, but you know, howis that affecting buyers and sellers
and agents and the transactions?
Love to get your perspective on that.
Michael Tomlin (01:48):
So
pre nar settlement.
It was always, you always knew what youwere gonna get paid, even on the buyer's
agent, because at the end of the day, thelisting agent's gonna come in and say,
Hey, I'm going to charge you X amount,and we'll share a piece with that.
There was some things that went on thatbrought about this settlement, and what's
(02:08):
interesting about the settlement is that.
You know, people scream doom and gloomwhen, when stuff like this happens.
It's, it's super, it's kind of silly tome because what I've learned is as the
real estate industry changes you, youbegin to see there are your top level
guys are always gonna say your top levelguys because they know how to adapt to
(02:31):
changes that happens in the industry and.
You.
The other part that I think wasreally, really, really confusing, and
I think it's it's still going on whenit first launched, was there was.
A different settlements.
What, um, happened withdifferent companies?
(02:52):
So like, I'm with Coldwell BankerRealty, which is un under anywhere
real estate, well anywhere.
Real estate had their ownsettlement versus like exp had
their own settlement and KellerWilliams had their own settlement.
So everybody had their own settlementand what I watched was different.
Brokerages began to implement differentbest practices, come out with their
(03:12):
own set of forms to help protect,um, and, and be in compliance.
And so there was a lot of differentinformation being given and it brought
about, honestly, just a ton of confusion.
I, I mean, and so I. Being me,pick up the phone and I started
(03:33):
calling other top level producers.
And I go, what are you seeing?
What are you being told?
How are we, how are you handling this?
Here's how I am and this is what I'mbeing told and how I'm being taught.
And, and so you begin to get a generalconsensus of, okay, I see how we can
get here, um, with this confusion.
(03:53):
And, and, and it's notmisinformation, it's just, just
different stuff getting shared.
Um.
But now it's, it's pretty easy because,you know, I've got a ton of people
that I'm working with who are sellingtheir home at the moment, and I, I've,
I can count on one hand how many ofthose sellers are saying I'm not gonna
(04:14):
offer a commission to a buyer's agent.
Okay, that's fine.
If that's what you want, ifthat's what you choose, fine.
Understand that in the event thatthere is a buyer representation form
that says, Hey, by the way, um, ifyou're not offering compensation,
I'm directing my, my agent to not.
Show your house, so youhave that going on as well.
(04:36):
And sh that takes sometime to learn and adjust.
Sometimes sellers just have to learn that.
But buyer's agents as well are gonnago, I'm gonna provide the value here
and I'm gonna show you what I'm worth.
By the way, I'm gonna try to, we'regonna try to work this into the
offer, so we need to make that.
Keep that in the back of our minds whenwe present an offer that here's where
(04:58):
we are without the commission beingpaid by the seller, here's where we
are gonna, what we're gonna have to.
So it's a lot more negotiation,a lot more back and forth.
But, but the biggest thing that Ithink was upfront was the, the kind of,
the confusion of information that wasbeing passed between just brokerages.
Dale Vermillion (05:14):
Yep.
Good, good observation.
And, and, and I think we canall agree that, you know.
At the end of the day, I think thebiggest impact that we're gonna
see outta the NAR settlement is.
Those agents who were part-timenot doing a lot of sales and really
weren't investing in this as acareer, yeah, it's probably gonna
(05:34):
be difficult for them to survive.
Um, yeah.
And, and do well.
But those who have been great agentswho have, you know, really committed
to knowing their game, that bring alot of value to the seller's agents.
They're gonna be in demand forever.
Yeah.
Because there'd be no reason whythe sellers wouldn't want them, uh,
to be involved in that transactionif they're bringing a good buyer.
Right.
It's all, it all comes down atthe end of the day to, to matching
(05:57):
together to a great buyer with agreat seller that qualifies for
the loan and can move forward.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Love that.
So let's talk a littlebit about, um, I, I'm.
There's so many people who watchthis podcast who are in the mortgage
arena, and I always love to hear theperspective of boots on the ground,
(06:17):
people on the real estate side as to.
You know, from your perspective,what makes a great lender?
What makes a great loan officer?
What are you looking for?
Because what I hear a lot fromthe loan officers is, well,
agents just want the lowest rates.
Now I know that's not true.
What, what they want is theywant a great transaction and be
represented well by their lender.
(06:38):
But I'd love to hear yourperspective on what do you look for?
And a lender and a loan officer.
What matters to you?
Yeah.
What services are importantand also what drives you crazy?
What are the things thatyou don't want 'em to do?
So
Michael Tomlin (06:54):
the relationship between a loan officer or you know, anybody in,
in that arena with a real estate agent.
We are inundated with peopletrying to get our business.
Yeah, that's just the way it is andI, and understandably so I get it.
Um.
(07:15):
It, it, it, you, you, it needs to be farmore than just business transactions.
The people that I tend to refer businessto is people that I actually will have
a conversation with that has nothingto do with real estate or mortgage.
That, that we're, we're genuinely a. It,it, it is a relationship based business.
And, and, and I know you guys are thesame way as those who sell real estate.
(07:36):
This is a relationship,relationship over transactions.
I care more about you and what'sgoing on in your life than what I care
about getting this deal closed, right?
The deal closing will happenjust because of the relationship.
It's all about the relationship,and that's been my motto from the.
Beginning of real estate wasrelationships over transactions.
I will always value that.
(07:57):
'cause that is the keycomponent to, uh, our business.
And so with mortgage and, uh, lendersand real estate agents, you, it's
not this, Hey, I'm gonna treat youto a coffee or to a lunch and let's
talk and you can gimme your business.
There.
There's, there's so much morethat goes in there that you're
like, yeah, you're a nice guy.
Yeah, you get loans done.
That's great.
(08:17):
Cool.
If I think about you, I'll sendsomething to you, but, but it's much
more, I, I don't want to be seen as aa, um, another deal for you to close.
Right.
That's that.
Because that's almost where that is.
I can tell you, I don't necessarilyeven get referral or, sorry,
referred buyers from lenders.
(08:38):
'cause I know there's a lotof lenders that do that.
I don't even work that way, but it's.
So it's not, it's the exchange isn'tthat necessarily, it's the organic
relationship and friendship that youhave with those other people that really
come forward and, and you know, the otherside, there's one caveat to that though.
(08:59):
The only caveat there is.
Where we live, we have to havecertain types of loan products.
Okay.
Yeah.
I call, you know, I had a guy there,there was a lender up in Chicago that
was, um, doing a deal for a buyer andhe said, oh, we can do non rewardable,
(09:20):
non rewardable, non wearable.
I said, okay, that's fine.
If you say you can, like I have soldenough property to know that you
have to have an an in-house serviceportfolio product because this is not
going to fit just a general condo,you know, condo, hotel type deal.
I say this, this is a very specifickind of deal because of the.
Building and the type ofquestionnaire that you're gonna get.
(09:42):
And he goes, and he assured me,assured me, assured me two weeks before
closing, he was like, oh, I'm sorry.
We can't, we can't do this deal.
We can't do the deal.
And I said, well then why did you tell me?
You could right there Our, ourarea specifically, because we
live down here along the coast,we have very specific products.
Everybody can do a va, everybodycan do an f, HA, everybody can
do a conventional, but there'sspecific type of products that.
(10:06):
I may not, may have necessarily thebest relationship with you, but you
are the only one that I know thatcould really close that kind of product
because your company can service thatkind of loan and not everybody can.
So that's the only caveat that Iwould say, um, is that unless if
it's not a relationship based type,uh, um, kind of transaction there.
(10:28):
Um, then you better havesaid really good specialty.
Dale Vermillion (10:33):
I love it.
Yeah.
So that, that so dovetails intowhat I teach mortgage, originators
and lenders all the time, isthat at the end of the day, this
industry's a relationship industry.
It's, it's not a transactional industryIf you really want to be successful,
and I see that with every top producerthat I work with, is they're the
ones who are really focusing onbuilding the trust and the loyalty of.
(10:55):
They're partners.
Mm-hmm.
They treat 'em like partners, whichmeans they have a deep personal
relationship with them that goesbeyond just the transaction.
Um, and, and then you talk a littlebit about the importance of product
diversity and, and making sure thatyou've got some niche products.
And you know, I, I say thisall the time to lenders.
If you want to get in witha top producing realtor.
(11:17):
Do not walk in and ask them to be,you know, or tell 'em that you want
to be one of their primary lenders.
That's just the dumbest thingyou could ever say, right?
You wanna walk in and say, look,how can I serve you today in areas
you're not being served, right?
And what do those look like?
And all of a sudden you could say, wellhey, you know, here's some areas of of
opportunity and products that I don'thave access to that if you have those.
(11:40):
That's a way we can start arelationship and then you build a
relationship from that point forwardthat really makes a difference.
Right.
So I love that you're, you arethinking the same way on that.
Let me ask you this question.
Open houses, do you, doyou do many open houses?
Is that something that you see alot of in the marketplace you're in?
So here's what I'll tell
Michael Tomlin (11:59):
you.
I personally.
Do not like to do open houses for the factthat in today's world, a lot of open since
Covid, lemme phrase that, since Covidopen houses have really kind of tried,
they've, they've kind of, the activitiesreally went down with open houses.
(12:22):
You know, it's, um, I tellsellers upfront, Hey, listen, um,
here's the secret open houses.
If they generate business, theydon't necessarily sell your house.
It might, there's a chance, like if youlook at the percentage, like you've,
there's like a three or 4% chancethat they could sell the house, but
reality is, it's more of a generator.
But if you feel strongly aboutit, I will, because I want to
(12:45):
serve you in every way that I can.
But here's here, you know, here'swhat, and, and, and I'll do.
There are agents that I knowthat 15, 10, 15 years ago, that's
how they got their business.
That's how they really started.
They, they honed in a neighborhood or anarea and they said, alright, I'm gonna
do open house every single day fromthis time, and I'm gonna get to know the
(13:08):
neighbors and I'm gonna get to know thisand I'm gonna know what, that's great.
But my own personal style is not a,it was not an open house scenario.
I.
Dale Vermillion (13:21):
Okay.
Got it.
Talk about what are the major no-nos.
So when a lender's working with youas a realtor, what are the things
that just drive you mad that lendersdo that you wish they wouldn't do?
Michael Tomlin (13:38):
They don't communicate.
You wanna blow up a transaction so fast?
Don't provide any information.
Don't provide updates to both buyerand seller because that will be the one
thing that will crumble a deal faster.
If you've got a seller who'santsy to sell and they're sitting
there going, what's going on?
(13:59):
When's the appraisal?
Do we know where they are?
Have they gotten conditional approval?
Do we know?
I mean, like, and they're askingquestions and I'm sitting there going.
I don't know, man, like I've tried tocall the a, their, the buyer's agent.
The buyer's agent said that, youknow, they'll ask for an update,
but then it's a week goes by andthen we still don't hear any like
that is so incredibly frustrating.
(14:20):
I think it's a lack of professionalismas, to be honest with you, because Yep.
But agreed.
From a contractual standpoint, I am suthe buyer's agent supposed to provide
us the information to the seller.
Now, if I'm the buyer'sagent, my lender that I have.
Become friends with, I talkto regularly anyways, so I'm
gonna get that information.
(14:41):
But if I'm on the other side and I'm,and I've got the seller and I'm sitting
here going, I don't know, I, I, I'vecalled him, I've left him a message.
I'm still not gettinganything back from him.
That is the one thing that, and,and I, and I'll, I'll add to this.
That's the one thing, that's the oneway I'll never work with that lender.
(15:02):
Is because if I ever have somebody,they may have closed the deal,
but they sucked at communication.
They sucked at providing updates.
They were terrible about it.
And I just, for me, that isthe biggest, biggest deal.
Um, and then if I were to add anythingelse, I mean, obviously, you know, I,
I mentioned the story about where thisguy said he could do something, comes
(15:22):
find he couldn't because he just wasn'texperienced or didn't have the knowledge.
Um, kind of not essentiallykind of lied out of just.
You know, his lack of knowledge.
Um, yeah.
But, but the, those two thingsare probably the biggest.
Just I will.
I'll, it's like I turnedred just thinking about it.
(15:43):
'cause I'm like, you've got to do better.
Got to do better.
You know, the lack of communicationis a really, really big problem with a
lot of people in the industry becauseyou have to think how many people are
gonna touch a real estate transactionoutside of just your, your, your lenders.
Right?
You, you've got 10 to12 people at some point.
(16:03):
It will be in the hands of a, of somebody.
And the only way to keep that gearturning and firing on all cylinders is
by providing proper communication andupdates to keep everybody informed.
And then if there is a hiccup, we'vehad enough conversations to know,
to go, how can we overcome this?
(16:23):
I had a I, I had a deal a couplemonths ago that there was a
situation that came up and.
The cash to close was muchhigher than the buyer thought.
And so I said, look, here are the comps.
We're buying this under market value.
Why don't we go back to the seller and askif he'll provide X amount of dollars for
(16:45):
closing costs and we could just raise theprice of the home to cover the difference.
And then you, you're not, and itwas just a simple like conversation.
But because we had had enoughconversations leading up to
that point, it was an easy.
Way to just keep the deal going and, and,and so it, that, that's the number one
(17:06):
issue that I run up against, um, justbecause with the saturation of, of, of
lenders that are in, in, in the market.
Dale Vermillion (17:14):
Good.
So you work predominantly on the,on the listing side, correct?
Yes.
Okay.
Do you also do the buyer side?
Yes.
Representation sometimes.
Okay.
Yep.
So you, you've been onboth sides of transaction.
Oh, absolutely.
I've got a question I wannaask you that I'm curious about.
Um, as, as a, on the listing side mm-hmm.
The seller side, because mostmortgage loan officers, they generally
(17:38):
work with the buyer's agents.
Mm-hmm.
At, because that's whothey're representing.
Yeah.
When they're representingthe, the borrower.
Um, as a listing agent, how often and howmany transactions do you think the lender.
Who's working with the buyer's agentreaches out to you when they get
the contract to introduce themselvesto build relationship with you?
(17:59):
How often does that happen?
Michael Tomlin (18:03):
Probably 30% of the time.
Dale Vermillion (18:05):
Very, I'm surprised it's even that high, to be honest with you.
Michael Tomlin (18:08):
Very little.
Well, the reason why I say that isbecause a lot of times it's me emailing,
like, we have an accepted contract.
I sit down Yep.
To email title.
And every, and everybody involved.
I'll go back to the guy'spreapproval letter, see the
(18:29):
email, attach it to the email.
So a lot of times it's just becauseI've already sent them an introduction
email with the information.
Got it.
And that's, but that I, it is ararity that I hear a true phone call
from them without me providing them.
Wow.
A lot of times As, so I, I,I'll add this, that as the,
(18:52):
when you're on the seller side.
And you, let's say we're workingwith a piece of resort property, a
condo that doesn't require, again,a special type of loan product,
or maybe it's a land deal, right?
Land deal.
There's not a lot of land loan options outthere, and I'm sitting there and I, before
(19:15):
I approach a decision with a seller, itis wise to still pick up the phone and go.
Hey, so I don't care about your borrower.
I need to know about these productsbecause here's the thing, that's
also a good way for me to learn who'sdoing them and who's not, right?
But also be able to provide,Hey, you've got a, a, a niche
(19:35):
that I need to know about.
So, but I often need to make surethat my seller's protected that in
the night that we're not crumbling,trying to scramble for, you know,
kind of a rescue deal, if you will.
Dale Vermillion (19:47):
Yep.
So from your perspective, if it's,it's interesting when you think about
that, that a hundred percent of thetime you're sending an email out to
the lender and only 30% of the timedoes that person even respond to
your email, which is hilarious to me.
Yeah.
I would assume that if you had somebodywho actually did their job, the way
(20:09):
that I teach loan officers to doit, which is the moment you get that
contract, the first thing you do.
You dial up, you do your researchon that listing agent to know a
little bit about their business.
Yeah.
So you don't sound like you don'tknow what you're talking about.
Right.
You give 'em a call.
You, you, you let 'em know whoyou are, introduce yourself.
Tell 'em how excited you areto work with them and how much
you're looking forward to it.
(20:29):
Answer any questions they have for you.
Provide any credentials thatthey need and any information.
If you got that call, how much wouldthat impress you for a loan officer?
And then.
Would you then put that loan officerat the top of your list as somebody
you'd wanna work with in the future?
Michael Tomlin (20:45):
Yes, and yes.
The, and I, because we're all busyprofessionals, I don't necessarily always
grab the phone every time I see it.
Right.
You can't.
Of course, of course.
But a simple, I, I willcheck my voicemail.
Like I, I'm one of those that do, um.
(21:08):
Sh shoot me a text.
Hey, left you a message.
Just want to, you know, introduce myself.
Super excited to work with you.
You know, call, call me when you can.
Like, those types of things reallygo such a long way because it just,
it gives you a peace of mind to knowyou're gonna be put in the loop.
You're gonna be able to have.
(21:31):
The updates that are needed.
Like, it is, like I, I have a situation,I got a penthouse over here that's un, un
under contract and I'm pulling teeth justto get when's the appraisal being done?
Like it, and it shouldn'tbe that hard to go.
Was it ordered?
Yes.
When is it?
Don't know.
I'll let you know.
Okay.
A week goes by.
When is it?
I mean, it's like, likeGimme a break, dude.
Dale Vermillion (21:55):
Yep.
I love it.
So, so good to know.
Um, these are the kind of thingsthat I, I believe are absolutely
imperative that loan officers do, um,and is to reach out to those agents,
and I'm gonna ask you this question.
What if that text message, Ilove the text message that you
just, I. Poured out right there.
(22:16):
Mm-hmm.
It's simple, sweet.
Short to the point.
What if the loan officer actually dida video text message with that same
thing with their smiling face on it?
Would it mean more toyou, the same to you?
Would it make a difference?
Um,
Michael Tomlin (22:32):
I don't think it, here's, here's.
I love video.
Okay.
Let, lemme say this.
I love the use of video within business.
I think it's, I think it, it, it'sa li it separates just a little bit.
Yeah.
Some of the type of programs that I'veseen come out that are for video type,
(22:57):
um, texting and emails and things likethat doesn't always get clicked and.
Because it, it's like it takes you,it opens up a new window and then you
gotta, it's, that's the whole thing.
I think it could be a little bitbetter doable by a true like.
(23:19):
Like I take my phone, we'rehit record video message.
Yeah.
Hated, blah, blah blah.
Click send as a text.
So the there, like I said, it's theprograms that I get from different people
that I don't, that doesn't get clicked on,but, and a true text message I think is.
Much more doable.
(23:41):
Um, yeah, like I said, for me it, forme, I'm such like, I mean, you know,
I've, I've got four kids I'm running,I'm doing all, doing a ton of stuff.
I don't always have time to watch a video,but I can glance down at a quick text.
So for me personally.
I think either way it was great.
Just, I think it's the effort of reachingout is the bigger thing, how you do
(24:05):
it, whether it's via video or just viajust some words on a screen, but, but.
Regardless, it's the effort of reachingout, putting me into that system
that when on Fridays or Mondays orwhatever day you do it, and you send
out that update of conditional approvaldone, you know, it's like that is a
bigger thing and let's me know thatI'm gonna be able to provide and be.
(24:31):
Knowledgeable of the updates, whetherI'm working on the buyer's side
or I'm working on the seller side.
It it's, it's, it's the, it's the,just the effort of reaching out and
the effort of providing the updates.
I'm telling you, effort goes a long way.
A long way.
Yeah.
It does
Dale Vermillion (24:48):
love that.
So if there was one thing that youwish lenders did that they don't
do, what would that one thing be?
Michael Tomlin (25:02):
That's a good
Dale Vermillion (25:02):
question.
Michael Tomlin (25:03):
Um,
beyond, beyond the, what we'vealready talked about, right?
We, we, we've talked about communicationand, and just, and just being there.
I think, I wish that lendershad a little bit better
(25:24):
knowledge in certain aspects of.
Of their own job.
And I don't mean thatin a derogatory sense.
I mean that in a growing and learningsense because there's a lot of
lenders that I have come across and,and you know as well, when you have
(25:44):
a real estate boom, it seems likeeverybody gets into the business.
You have new lenders.
Yep.
You have new realtors, you have new title.
Yep.
So you have all this stuff and.
When you have people that come in,there is when you are dealing with
a hard situation with a buyer and.
(26:07):
You have being able to have the abilityto go, okay, I have to be one step ahead
of you in every part of this transaction.
And because if something were to happen, Ihave a plan B, I have a plan C, and I have
a plan D. And it's knowing the abilityto, to to stay a step ahead and knowing if
(26:28):
something happens, I can always do this.
It may change this and this.
But we can fix it.
Yeah.
And, and I've, and there's a lotof lenders that I've come across
that it's kind of face value.
Like if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.
But they didn't go through the process totry to go, here's how I can overcome this
problem and this problem and this problem.
(26:48):
And, and I just, it.
That is the, that would be one thingthat I think I wish lenders had and
those who are far experienced, theykind of been through enough of Yeah.
Practice to know that.
Yeah.
But because there's so much of the newcrew that have kind of come in over
(27:08):
the last five years, there's just,that's one side of things that I, I, I
would love to see, you know, be, and,and, and what happens is, as my job.
I have to know a littlebit about everything.
I have to know a little bit aboutmortgage and lending and yep.
When I, because I have a relationship withmy lender, I, by natural conversation,
(27:34):
they begin to talk to me about, well,you know, if we did this, and this
is to change, I mean, it allows meto also become more knowledgeable
because now I'm able to talk to thatbuyer to kinda reinforce exactly what
that lender was just saying to them,because I now know that, and so.
That's the kind of thing that I wishI would see more lenders do that.
(27:57):
That they don't just come in and say,oh, we can do that, that and that.
And you know that.
And I mean, no, we, there's the if, ifyou are a true professional, you are
really trying to grow, you're reallytrying to make it in the business.
You really have to be willingto learn new things, learn
new ways, new tips and tricks.
It's so important.
Dale Vermillion (28:16):
Very cool.
So you, you mentioned, um, beforewe got on, and I'd love to hear a
little bit about this, that the realestate business is gonna be changing
quite a bit in the coming years.
What are some of the things that yousee on the horizon that you think
are gonna change in the way thatpeople buy and sell real estate?
(28:40):
There's, that is a loaded question.
Michael Tomlin (28:44):
So,
so, uh, uh, the, the NARsettlement, we will start here
because that's where we left off.
The NARS settlement will cre you.
It's, it's,
it's a lot more about disclosure.
You're disclosing what you're being paid.
(29:06):
Okay.
Yeah.
Um, I love, love, love that a, that FannieMae, Freddie Mac, I believe that they
came out and said, Hey, we will coverbuyer agent commission, and it's not
wrapped into seller concession percentage.
Love that.
I, I think that's that really helpful.
And it puts the consumerfirst by, by, by doing that.
(29:28):
So I love that.
Um.
I think that you're gonna see,it's gonna take some time, um,
to, to, to go through this.
I, I think it'll take a couple of yearsbefore we really start seeing some things,
but there's going to be some consumers,
(29:53):
because I do this for a living.
Cons, I hear that consumers.
They think that realestate agents are overpaid.
You know, they think that, youknow, we don't do anything.
And
I, my goal is to show themby my work ethic that there
(30:13):
are people who are like that.
Yes, but I'm not one of them.
You know?
Um, and, and, and.
So we're gonna see a, I think we'regonna see a wave of, um, discount
brokers and, and, and, and whatnotthat are gonna come in and they're
gonna try to capitalize on it because.
That's just, that's, that's,that's the way of the business.
(30:36):
Um, you're, I'll be honest, I don'tthink we're gonna see a significant
decrease in commissions paid nationally.
And I, I, I'll tell you why.
Because pre na settlement, you saw,I'm gonna come in, I'm gonna charge you
four or five, 6%, whatever percentagethat, that they, they charge will
(30:57):
split x with, with the buyer's agent.
That's done.
Now it is easier to walk in and go,okay, listen, my professional fee's
3%, what would you like to pay?
The buyer's agent seller says, I don'twanna pay one until we get an offer.
So tell them I'll entertain,uh, an a buyer agent commission.
Uh, but I'm not going topre-negotiate one upfront.
(31:24):
Okay, that's fine.
Do you, do you understandthe repercussions of, of what
happens if you were to do that?
We may miss buyers who are,you know, director agent.
Yes, I understand that.
Okay, cool.
Well, let's do that.
So they're only paying 3% atthe signing of those agreement.
You got a buyer's agent that comes inand says, okay, listen, my profession
fees three point a half percent.
(31:44):
Now it's a simple work into the deal.
It's that, that's a simpleshift into, we'll just.
Put that into the purchaseprice and we're done.
Oh, your lender canalso cover part of that.
Great.
Now I'm paid three and a halfversus the 2% that I would've
been paid six months ago.
I think that that's part of the thingthat we're gonna see, that this is
(32:07):
actually gonna be a bite in the butttowards the sellers because this
started because of sellers thought.
You know, there was a whole disclosureissue and they didn't realize
they were paying and there wasall this, this stuff that came up.
But I think what's actually gonna happenis, um, we're not gonna see a shift
in commissions paid, especially thosethat bring true value to the deal.
(32:32):
So that's one of the thingsthat I just, I, that I'm seeing.
Um, and, and, and it's, and it's a verysimple way to word it as you're speaking
to a seller or you're speaking to a buyerand, you know, um, but it's a, it's gonna
be interesting to see how this phases out.
We're getting, we're, we're obviously,I think we'll lose a good part of
(32:53):
the, what I call part-timer, um,where it's not a real profession,
it's kind of a side hustle.
I think we'll lose some of that as well.
Um, which is, for me, that'sgreat because that's what I do.
That's what I do for a living.
Um, but Right.
But I do think we're gonna swe'll, we'll see a shift away
from some of the part-timers.
Um, and, and you know, that'll, that, thatwill open up the market to those who truly
(33:17):
take this on as a, as a real profession.
Dale Vermillion (33:21):
Good.
Well, great stuff Michael.
Appreciate all the insight and the wisdom.
Uh, let me, let me close with the lastquestion that I ask all of my guests.
You, you've been verysuccessful in your career.
Um, you're, you're top onepoint a half percent in the
country in real estate agents.
That's an amazing accomplishment.
Mm-hmm.
Um.
Tell me about who has mentored youin your life, um, and, and how much
(33:46):
you valued that in your career, um,over your career that has helped
you get to where you're at today.
Michael Tomlin (33:55):
So when I first got into the business, I.
I came out of an industry that wasan, was an e-commerce style business.
And so I was, you know,phone calls and emails.
They really didn't freak me out'cause I was used to it anyways.
And I rem like there was a couple of guysthat I, I was with a different brokerage
(34:21):
back then and there were a couple of guysthat were about, had about 10 years on me.
Um.
Family, men, um, you know, were, wewere, he and I both were, um, kind
of, we, we, we, we served in, in localchurches and we did a couple things.
And, um, and I just was curious,asking questions and, and
(34:45):
wanting to learn and, and grow.
And, and, and he was like, yeah, sure.
Come on in.
And we will, you know, and I, and I,I'll let you just kind of shadow me and.
We only did that probablytwo or three times.
It wasn't that much.
But what I took away from it was like,man, that just, it just took, so, like,
I was amazed at just the willingness togo, I'm gonna let you in on all that I do.
(35:11):
Right.
Because it does.
Yep.
And, and there's a couple of otherpeople that that, that I did that
with, um, whether it was, you know,that one was done with a lot with
like cold calls and kind of generalschedule production type of things.
Then I did one that was, um, alittle bit more open house focus.
(35:31):
I did one that was like, I, I tookpeople that I wanted to, that were
about 10 years ahead of me, andthen I, and then I said, okay.
How can I learn from this,but kind of make it my own?
Like, I don't wanna copy, I wanna makeit my own, but how do I copy that?
And, and, and, and the impact thatit had on me wasn't necessarily made
(35:55):
me productive, but it, but what Ilearned was, is that if I share with
you my secrets of the industry andthe trait and what I do, you're not
gonna do exactly what I'm gonna do.
You can't, 'cause you're not me.
Right, but there's an impact that itwill leave on you and, and, and that
(36:17):
whether you stayed in the industryor not, you became better for it
as a person, and it's easy to get.
It is easy to try to, to let yourpride kind of swell up and kind of
beat your chest, especially whenyou're performing at high levels.
(36:37):
It's easy to, uh, uh, uh, kind ofbe a know-it-all with, with, with
o other people if, if you don'thave people that keep you in check.
My wife is the best.
She's incredible and she, and she is.
She wants to see me succeedin every way possible.
(36:59):
Yeah.
And when, when I look back in my career,the, the people that mattered that
were in my corner, even when stuffwasn't selling, even when stuff wasn't
moving, I still, like, you've got mywife who, you know, she, she, she goes
(37:19):
and she'll walk these listings andshe'll, she'll just pray over the house.
Right.
That's impactful for me becauseshe's just as invested as I am.
I look at my kids cool, andI go, I've got to get up.
I've gotta go to the office.
I don't want to, I'm exhausted.
I've got a migraine.
I'm, I'm not feelinggood, but they need daddy.
(37:41):
To do something today.
And so there are people that haveencouraged me, whether both in the
business but also I look outside of thebusiness and there, like my faith is a
huge, huge, integral part of who I am.
If you meet me, you will, there,there is a very good chance the name
(38:02):
Jesus is gonna come up because it'sa part of who I am and my faith.
Yep.
Is not separate from me.
I know in the world that welive in, it is, they say, you
need to keep that separate.
I. And that's fine.
If, if, if me having a faith in Jesusmakes you not wanna do business with
(38:22):
me, then we don't need to do businesstogether because that's who I am.
And if you're hiringme, you're hiring that.
And so there, there, there's.
Just through life.
There are people thathave spoken into my life.
There are, there are experiences thathas allowed me to go, Hey, you know what?
I'm not gonna change who I am.
If you, if you want Michael Tomlin,you're gonna get Michael Tomlin and
(38:45):
I'm gonna work my hardest for youto make this, this, this transaction
work buyer or seller, doesn't matter.
But, but you are gonna get who I'm,who I am, and the opportunities
that, that this has given me farexceeds any accolades that I may get.
The accolades are great.
They, they, it kind ofshows, hey, he's good.
(39:06):
He knows what he's doing, but at the endof the day, it doesn't truly provide me
with fulfillment if my, the fulfillmentof the business comes far beyond what.
How much money that I could make, whataccolades that I could have, any of that.
And at the end of the day, you,it's, it's, it's, it's about giving
(39:27):
back to others and it's aboutpouring into, um, I. Um, it, it's
just pouring into other people.
And, and, and I say that from a, froma stance of whether you're pouring
into for us a new agent, right?
Hey, let me show you.
Right?
Or it's pouring into people in yourcommunity and, and, and pouring into
(39:51):
and, and into trying to make, um,your community better, you know?
So that's about all I got.
Dale Vermillion (39:59):
Well, I love that.
And, uh, you, you, you, that'sa great way to close out.
You and I share a, a deep faith in Jesus.
Mm-hmm.
As, um, as the centerof our lives and Yeah.
You know what I love when you said, ifyou know, if, if you don't wanna work
with me because of my faith, that's okay.
But the fact of the matter isif we're living out our faith.
The way that the Bible tells us to.
(40:19):
Right?
Then people are gonna wanna workwith us because we're going to
be the best version of ourselves.
We're going to work hard,we're going to be honest.
We're gonna do all the thingsthat, that Christ amplified when
he, when he was on this planet.
Exactly.
So, um, I love the fact thatthat's where you're centered at
and that's where I'm centered at.
That's where Caroline centered,that's where Laurel centered at.
Yeah.
And that's how we becamefriends in the first place.
(40:40):
So, uh, it's, it's.
Cool to see that that is such acentral part of what you've done,
and it's also a key part of thementoring side of what you do.
Right.
Um, so let's close out, uh, tell ushow people can, you know, check you
out, uh, find you get ahold of you.
And I also know that, you know, youand Caroline are doing a lot of work.
(41:01):
In ministry along with what you do Yeah.
In, uh, in your career, whichthey're, they're both the same thing.
Sure.
You've got the Waves Ministrythat you're helping, you know,
young girls all over the world.
Yeah.
Not just, uh, you guys just gotback from doing more of those.
And then the Kingdom Collaboration,take a minute and just share a little
bit about what you're doing on thatside, and then how people can get ahold
of you if they'd like to talk to you.
(41:22):
Okay.
Michael Tomlin (41:22):
So.
This year, so, okay, lemme back up.
My wife and I run a 5 0 1 C3 nonprofitcalled Waves Ministry and, um, really
started, she started it about 11years ago and we, she and I co-lead
and run this ministry together.
And like I said, it is a true 5 0 1C3, but w like we got back last night
(41:43):
from Colorado, we had, um, a conferencethat we did and put on over there and.
It is a, you know, we, we, wedeal with girls all over the
world, you know, we have, we haveother things that we want to do.
Obviously, we, we love to expand, alsobring in into the guys because guys need
it just as much as girls and, but, butwe, we really focus on calling an identity
(42:08):
because when you don't know who you are,it's easy to get lost into a lot of the.
Kind of that, that, you know, you dealwith cutting and depression and you deal
with anxiety and you deal with all theseidentity issues that if you don't know
who you are, all that stuff's gonna stay.
But until you know who you are, thenyou begin to, I. Um, kind of break
(42:30):
free from that because now it doesn'tmatter what you say that I am, because
I know who I am and I know whose I am.
So, you know, we, we are, that's, that'sa big part of our lives is, is waves.
So, you know, between waves andreal estate and then four kids
and running around schedules, likewe live a pretty busy, busy life.
(42:50):
Um.
But where you can, you findme, I'm the easiest to find.
It is literally Mr. MichaelTomlin on everything.
Mr. Michael Tomlin on everything.
And you can, you know, fromInstagram, you can message me.
Heck, you can, I think my phonenumber is actually on the Instagram.
You can call me from Instagram.
Like I'm, I'm very easy to get ahold of.
(43:12):
Um, I am, I am.
Uh, there is a term.
And, uh, that brokers willuse to agents and, and they
say, don't be a secret agent.
You know, like, don't let everybodyknow that, you know, and so it's
like, trust me, there's no secret.
I'm pretty well found.
So good.
So,
Dale Vermillion (43:31):
well Michael, been great to have you, uh, appreciate you
and Caroline so much, and, uh, appreciatethe, you taking time outta your busy
schedule to, to share with our audience.
Um, always great to see you, my friend.
Let's get together again soon.
Um, really, reallyappreciate this time today.
Thank you.
Michael Tomlin (43:47):
Thanks for having me.
It was good to, good to see you andtalk to you and, uh, again, easy to
be found, so I'm, I'm always around.
Dale Vermillion (43:56):
Good.
Alright guys, that is a wrap foranother Banning a thousand where we,
again, interview the heavy hittersin the mortgage real estate industry.
Thanks for being with us today.
God bless you.
We'll see you on the next one.
All right.
Hello everybody and welcome backto Betting a thousand where we
talk with the heavy hitters in themortgage and real estate industry.
And today I've got a real treatfor you guys 'cause I've got a
a, a good friend, um, Michael OldTomlin and his wife Caroline, are
good friends with Laurel and I.
And Michael is a top realestate agent in the country.
(00:25):
He is literally, um, one of the top oneand a half percent of agents, um, in the
country by America's best and Real Trends.
He's a top 1000 agent in Florida.
He's a top 5% of Coldwell Banker, um,agents globally, four years consecutively.
This guy sells some real estate.
He knows the business inside and out.
He's just an absolutely great guy, um,and a great family man, and a dear friend.
(00:50):
So Michael, great to have you with us.
Glad to be here.
Thank you.
So, Michael, let's talk todayabout, I, I guess we'll start with
the topic, um, before we get into.
Talking with you about how to work withmortgage lenders and loan options and all
that stuff, but everybody's been talkingabout the NAR settlement that's been top
(01:11):
of mind for most real estate and mortgageprofessionals over the last 90 days.
I personally have said many times,I think it's much ado about nothing.
Mm-hmm.
And I know that as we kindof talked offline mm-hmm.
Uh, you've got some of the samefeelings, but, you know, it is a, it
is a major shift that we're seeing.
In the industry.
There's no question about that.
(01:31):
Yeah.
Uh, love to hear from your perspectivewhat you are seeing on the ground as
to the impact from the NR settlement.
And not only that, but you know, howis that affecting buyers and sellers
and agents and the transactions?
Love to get your perspective on that.
Michael Tomlin (01:48):
So
pre nar settlement.
It was always, you always knew what youwere gonna get paid, even on the buyer's
agent, because at the end of the day, thelisting agent's gonna come in and say,
Hey, I'm going to charge you X amount,and we'll share a piece with that.
There was some things that went on thatbrought about this settlement, and what's
(02:08):
interesting about the settlement is that.
You know, people scream doom and gloomwhen, when stuff like this happens.
It's, it's super, it's kind of silly tome because what I've learned is as the
real estate industry changes you, youbegin to see there are your top level
guys are always gonna say your top levelguys because they know how to adapt to
(02:31):
changes that happens in the industry and.
You.
The other part that I think wasreally, really, really confusing, and
I think it's it's still going on whenit first launched, was there was.
A different settlements.
What, um, happened withdifferent companies?
(02:52):
So like, I'm with Coldwell BankerRealty, which is un under anywhere
real estate, well anywhere.
Real estate had their ownsettlement versus like exp had
their own settlement and KellerWilliams had their own settlement.
So everybody had their own settlementand what I watched was different.
Brokerages began to implement differentbest practices, come out with their
(03:12):
own set of forms to help protect,um, and, and be in compliance.
And so there was a lot of differentinformation being given and it brought
about, honestly, just a ton of confusion.
I, I mean, and so I. Being me,pick up the phone and I started
(03:33):
calling other top level producers.
And I go, what are you seeing?
What are you being told?
How are we, how are you handling this?
Here's how I am and this is what I'mbeing told and how I'm being taught.
And, and so you begin to get a generalconsensus of, okay, I see how we can
get here, um, with this confusion.
(03:53):
And, and, and it's notmisinformation, it's just, just
different stuff getting shared.
Um.
But now it's, it's pretty easy because,you know, I've got a ton of people
that I'm working with who are sellingtheir home at the moment, and I, I've,
I can count on one hand how many ofthose sellers are saying I'm not gonna
(04:14):
offer a commission to a buyer's agent.
Okay, that's fine.
If that's what you want, ifthat's what you choose, fine.
Understand that in the event thatthere is a buyer representation form
that says, Hey, by the way, um, ifyou're not offering compensation,
I'm directing my, my agent to not.
Show your house, so youhave that going on as well.
(04:36):
And sh that takes sometime to learn and adjust.
Sometimes sellers just have to learn that.
But buyer's agents as well are gonnago, I'm gonna provide the value here
and I'm gonna show you what I'm worth.
By the way, I'm gonna try to, we'regonna try to work this into the
offer, so we need to make that.
Keep that in the back of our minds whenwe present an offer that here's where
(04:58):
we are without the commission beingpaid by the seller, here's where we
are gonna, what we're gonna have to.
So it's a lot more negotiation,a lot more back and forth.
But, but the biggest thing that Ithink was upfront was the, the kind of,
the confusion of information that wasbeing passed between just brokerages.
Dale Vermillion (05:14):
Yep.
Good, good observation.
And, and, and I think we canall agree that, you know.
At the end of the day, I think thebiggest impact that we're gonna
see outta the NAR settlement is.
Those agents who were part-timenot doing a lot of sales and really
weren't investing in this as acareer, yeah, it's probably gonna
(05:34):
be difficult for them to survive.
Um, yeah.
And, and do well.
But those who have been great agentswho have, you know, really committed
to knowing their game, that bring alot of value to the seller's agents.
They're gonna be in demand forever.
Yeah.
Because there'd be no reason whythe sellers wouldn't want them, uh,
to be involved in that transactionif they're bringing a good buyer.
Right.
It's all, it all comes down atthe end of the day to, to matching
(05:57):
together to a great buyer with agreat seller that qualifies for
the loan and can move forward.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Love that.
So let's talk a littlebit about, um, I, I'm.
There's so many people who watchthis podcast who are in the mortgage
arena, and I always love to hear theperspective of boots on the ground,
(06:17):
people on the real estate side as to.
You know, from your perspective,what makes a great lender?
What makes a great loan officer?
What are you looking for?
Because what I hear a lot fromthe loan officers is, well,
agents just want the lowest rates.
Now I know that's not true.
What, what they want is theywant a great transaction and be
represented well by their lender.
(06:38):
But I'd love to hear yourperspective on what do you look for?
And a lender and a loan officer.
What matters to you?
Yeah.
What services are importantand also what drives you crazy?
What are the things thatyou don't want 'em to do?
So
Michael Tomlin (06:54):
the relationship between a loan officer or you know, anybody in,
in that arena with a real estate agent.
We are inundated with peopletrying to get our business.
Yeah, that's just the way it is andI, and understandably so I get it.
Um.
(07:15):
It, it, it, you, you, it needs to be farmore than just business transactions.
The people that I tend to refer businessto is people that I actually will have
a conversation with that has nothingto do with real estate or mortgage.
That, that we're, we're genuinely a. It,it, it is a relationship based business.
And, and, and I know you guys are thesame way as those who sell real estate.
(07:36):
This is a relationship,relationship over transactions.
I care more about you and what'sgoing on in your life than what I care
about getting this deal closed, right?
The deal closing will happenjust because of the relationship.
It's all about the relationship,and that's been my motto from the.
Beginning of real estate wasrelationships over transactions.
I will always value that.
(07:57):
'cause that is the keycomponent to, uh, our business.
And so with mortgage and, uh, lendersand real estate agents, you, it's
not this, Hey, I'm gonna treat youto a coffee or to a lunch and let's
talk and you can gimme your business.
There.
There's, there's so much morethat goes in there that you're
like, yeah, you're a nice guy.
Yeah, you get loans done.
That's great.
(08:17):
Cool.
If I think about you, I'll sendsomething to you, but, but it's much
more, I, I don't want to be seen as aa, um, another deal for you to close.
Right.
That's that.
Because that's almost where that is.
I can tell you, I don't necessarilyeven get referral or, sorry,
referred buyers from lenders.
(08:38):
'cause I know there's a lotof lenders that do that.
I don't even work that way, but it's.
So it's not, it's the exchange isn'tthat necessarily, it's the organic
relationship and friendship that youhave with those other people that really
come forward and, and you know, the otherside, there's one caveat to that though.
(08:59):
The only caveat there is.
Where we live, we have to havecertain types of loan products.
Okay.
Yeah.
I call, you know, I had a guy there,there was a lender up in Chicago that
was, um, doing a deal for a buyer andhe said, oh, we can do non rewardable,
(09:20):
non rewardable, non wearable.
I said, okay, that's fine.
If you say you can, like I have soldenough property to know that you
have to have an an in-house serviceportfolio product because this is not
going to fit just a general condo,you know, condo, hotel type deal.
I say this, this is a very specifickind of deal because of the.
Building and the type ofquestionnaire that you're gonna get.
(09:42):
And he goes, and he assured me,assured me, assured me two weeks before
closing, he was like, oh, I'm sorry.
We can't, we can't do this deal.
We can't do the deal.
And I said, well then why did you tell me?
You could right there Our, ourarea specifically, because we
live down here along the coast,we have very specific products.
Everybody can do a va, everybodycan do an f, HA, everybody can
do a conventional, but there'sspecific type of products that.
(10:06):
I may not, may have necessarily thebest relationship with you, but you
are the only one that I know thatcould really close that kind of product
because your company can service thatkind of loan and not everybody can.
So that's the only caveat that Iwould say, um, is that unless if
it's not a relationship based type,uh, um, kind of transaction there.
(10:28):
Um, then you better havesaid really good specialty.
Dale Vermillion (10:33):
I love it.
Yeah.
So that, that so dovetails intowhat I teach mortgage, originators
and lenders all the time, isthat at the end of the day, this
industry's a relationship industry.
It's, it's not a transactional industryIf you really want to be successful,
and I see that with every top producerthat I work with, is they're the
ones who are really focusing onbuilding the trust and the loyalty of.
(10:55):
They're partners.
Mm-hmm.
They treat 'em like partners, whichmeans they have a deep personal
relationship with them that goesbeyond just the transaction.
Um, and, and then you talk a littlebit about the importance of product
diversity and, and making sure thatyou've got some niche products.
And you know, I, I say thisall the time to lenders.
If you want to get in witha top producing realtor.
(11:17):
Do not walk in and ask them to be,you know, or tell 'em that you want
to be one of their primary lenders.
That's just the dumbest thingyou could ever say, right?
You wanna walk in and say, look,how can I serve you today in areas
you're not being served, right?
And what do those look like?
And all of a sudden you could say, wellhey, you know, here's some areas of of
opportunity and products that I don'thave access to that if you have those.
(11:40):
That's a way we can start arelationship and then you build a
relationship from that point forwardthat really makes a difference.
Right.
So I love that you're, you arethinking the same way on that.
Let me ask you this question.
Open houses, do you, doyou do many open houses?
Is that something that you see alot of in the marketplace you're in?
So here's what I'll tell
Michael Tomlin (11:59):
you.
I personally.
Do not like to do open houses for the factthat in today's world, a lot of open since
Covid, lemme phrase that, since Covidopen houses have really kind of tried,
they've, they've kind of, the activitiesreally went down with open houses.
(12:22):
You know, it's, um, I tellsellers upfront, Hey, listen, um,
here's the secret open houses.
If they generate business, theydon't necessarily sell your house.
It might, there's a chance, like if youlook at the percentage, like you've,
there's like a three or 4% chancethat they could sell the house, but
reality is, it's more of a generator.
But if you feel strongly aboutit, I will, because I want to
(12:45):
serve you in every way that I can.
But here's here, you know, here'swhat, and, and, and I'll do.
There are agents that I knowthat 15, 10, 15 years ago, that's
how they got their business.
That's how they really started.
They, they honed in a neighborhood or anarea and they said, alright, I'm gonna
do open house every single day fromthis time, and I'm gonna get to know the
(13:08):
neighbors and I'm gonna get to know thisand I'm gonna know what, that's great.
But my own personal style is not a,it was not an open house scenario.
I.
Dale Vermillion (13:21):
Okay.
Got it.
Talk about what are the major no-nos.
So when a lender's working with youas a realtor, what are the things
that just drive you mad that lendersdo that you wish they wouldn't do?
Michael Tomlin (13:38):
They don't communicate.
You wanna blow up a transaction so fast?
Don't provide any information.
Don't provide updates to both buyerand seller because that will be the one
thing that will crumble a deal faster.
If you've got a seller who'santsy to sell and they're sitting
there going, what's going on?
(13:59):
When's the appraisal?
Do we know where they are?
Have they gotten conditional approval?
Do we know?
I mean, like, and they're askingquestions and I'm sitting there going.
I don't know, man, like I've tried tocall the a, their, the buyer's agent.
The buyer's agent said that, youknow, they'll ask for an update,
but then it's a week goes by andthen we still don't hear any like
that is so incredibly frustrating.
(14:20):
I think it's a lack of professionalismas, to be honest with you, because Yep.
But agreed.
From a contractual standpoint, I am suthe buyer's agent supposed to provide
us the information to the seller.
Now, if I'm the buyer'sagent, my lender that I have.
Become friends with, I talkto regularly anyways, so I'm
gonna get that information.
(14:41):
But if I'm on the other side and I'm,and I've got the seller and I'm sitting
here going, I don't know, I, I, I'vecalled him, I've left him a message.
I'm still not gettinganything back from him.
That is the one thing that, and,and I, and I'll, I'll add to this.
That's the one thing, that's the oneway I'll never work with that lender.
(15:02):
Is because if I ever have somebody,they may have closed the deal,
but they sucked at communication.
They sucked at providing updates.
They were terrible about it.
And I just, for me, that isthe biggest, biggest deal.
Um, and then if I were to add anythingelse, I mean, obviously, you know, I,
I mentioned the story about where thisguy said he could do something, comes
(15:22):
find he couldn't because he just wasn'texperienced or didn't have the knowledge.
Um, kind of not essentiallykind of lied out of just.
You know, his lack of knowledge.
Um, yeah.
But, but the, those two thingsare probably the biggest.
Just I will.
I'll, it's like I turnedred just thinking about it.
(15:43):
'cause I'm like, you've got to do better.
Got to do better.
You know, the lack of communicationis a really, really big problem with a
lot of people in the industry becauseyou have to think how many people are
gonna touch a real estate transactionoutside of just your, your, your lenders.
Right?
You, you've got 10 to12 people at some point.
(16:03):
It will be in the hands of a, of somebody.
And the only way to keep that gearturning and firing on all cylinders is
by providing proper communication andupdates to keep everybody informed.
And then if there is a hiccup, we'vehad enough conversations to know,
to go, how can we overcome this?
(16:23):
I had a I, I had a deal a couplemonths ago that there was a
situation that came up and.
The cash to close was muchhigher than the buyer thought.
And so I said, look, here are the comps.
We're buying this under market value.
Why don't we go back to the seller and askif he'll provide X amount of dollars for
(16:45):
closing costs and we could just raise theprice of the home to cover the difference.
And then you, you're not, and itwas just a simple like conversation.
But because we had had enoughconversations leading up to
that point, it was an easy.
Way to just keep the deal going and, and,and so it, that, that's the number one
(17:06):
issue that I run up against, um, justbecause with the saturation of, of, of
lenders that are in, in, in the market.
Dale Vermillion (17:14):
Good.
So you work predominantly on the,on the listing side, correct?
Yes.
Okay.
Do you also do the buyer side?
Yes.
Representation sometimes.
Okay.
Yep.
So you, you've been onboth sides of transaction.
Oh, absolutely.
I've got a question I wannaask you that I'm curious about.
Um, as, as a, on the listing side mm-hmm.
The seller side, because mostmortgage loan officers, they generally
(17:38):
work with the buyer's agents.
Mm-hmm.
At, because that's whothey're representing.
Yeah.
When they're representingthe, the borrower.
Um, as a listing agent, how often and howmany transactions do you think the lender.
Who's working with the buyer's agentreaches out to you when they get
the contract to introduce themselvesto build relationship with you?
(17:59):
How often does that happen?
Michael Tomlin (18:03):
Probably 30% of the time.
Dale Vermillion (18:05):
Very, I'm surprised it's even that high, to be honest with you.
Michael Tomlin (18:08):
Very little.
Well, the reason why I say that isbecause a lot of times it's me emailing,
like, we have an accepted contract.
I sit down Yep.
To email title.
And every, and everybody involved.
I'll go back to the guy'spreapproval letter, see the
(18:29):
email, attach it to the email.
So a lot of times it's just becauseI've already sent them an introduction
email with the information.
Got it.
And that's, but that I, it is ararity that I hear a true phone call
from them without me providing them.
Wow.
A lot of times As, so I, I,I'll add this, that as the,
(18:52):
when you're on the seller side.
And you, let's say we're workingwith a piece of resort property, a
condo that doesn't require, again,a special type of loan product,
or maybe it's a land deal, right?
Land deal.
There's not a lot of land loan options outthere, and I'm sitting there and I, before
(19:15):
I approach a decision with a seller, itis wise to still pick up the phone and go.
Hey, so I don't care about your borrower.
I need to know about these productsbecause here's the thing, that's
also a good way for me to learn who'sdoing them and who's not, right?
But also be able to provide,Hey, you've got a, a, a niche
(19:35):
that I need to know about.
So, but I often need to make surethat my seller's protected that in
the night that we're not crumbling,trying to scramble for, you know,
kind of a rescue deal, if you will.
Dale Vermillion (19:47):
Yep.
So from your perspective, if it's,it's interesting when you think about
that, that a hundred percent of thetime you're sending an email out to
the lender and only 30% of the timedoes that person even respond to
your email, which is hilarious to me.
Yeah.
I would assume that if you had somebodywho actually did their job, the way
(20:09):
that I teach loan officers to doit, which is the moment you get that
contract, the first thing you do.
You dial up, you do your researchon that listing agent to know a
little bit about their business.
Yeah.
So you don't sound like you don'tknow what you're talking about.
Right.
You give 'em a call.
You, you, you let 'em know whoyou are, introduce yourself.
Tell 'em how excited you areto work with them and how much
you're looking forward to it.
(20:29):
Answer any questions they have for you.
Provide any credentials thatthey need and any information.
If you got that call, how much wouldthat impress you for a loan officer?
And then.
Would you then put that loan officerat the top of your list as somebody
you'd wanna work with in the future?
Michael Tomlin (20:45):
Yes, and yes.
The, and I, because we're all busyprofessionals, I don't necessarily always
grab the phone every time I see it.
Right.
You can't.
Of course, of course.
But a simple, I, I willcheck my voicemail.
Like I, I'm one of those that do, um.
(21:08):
Sh shoot me a text.
Hey, left you a message.
Just want to, you know, introduce myself.
Super excited to work with you.
You know, call, call me when you can.
Like, those types of things reallygo such a long way because it just,
it gives you a peace of mind to knowyou're gonna be put in the loop.
You're gonna be able to have.
(21:31):
The updates that are needed.
Like, it is, like I, I have a situation,I got a penthouse over here that's un, un
under contract and I'm pulling teeth justto get when's the appraisal being done?
Like it, and it shouldn'tbe that hard to go.
Was it ordered?
Yes.
When is it?
Don't know.
I'll let you know.
Okay.
A week goes by.
When is it?
I mean, it's like, likeGimme a break, dude.
Dale Vermillion (21:55):
Yep.
I love it.
So, so good to know.
Um, these are the kind of thingsthat I, I believe are absolutely
imperative that loan officers do, um,and is to reach out to those agents,
and I'm gonna ask you this question.
What if that text message, Ilove the text message that you
just, I. Poured out right there.
(22:16):
Mm-hmm.
It's simple, sweet.
Short to the point.
What if the loan officer actually dida video text message with that same
thing with their smiling face on it?
Would it mean more toyou, the same to you?
Would it make a difference?
Um,
Michael Tomlin (22:32):
I don't think it, here's, here's.
I love video.
Okay.
Let, lemme say this.
I love the use of video within business.
I think it's, I think it, it, it'sa li it separates just a little bit.
Yeah.
Some of the type of programs that I'veseen come out that are for video type,
(22:57):
um, texting and emails and things likethat doesn't always get clicked and.
Because it, it's like it takes you,it opens up a new window and then you
gotta, it's, that's the whole thing.
I think it could be a little bitbetter doable by a true like.
(23:19):
Like I take my phone, we'rehit record video message.
Yeah.
Hated, blah, blah blah.
Click send as a text.
So the there, like I said, it's theprograms that I get from different people
that I don't, that doesn't get clicked on,but, and a true text message I think is.
Much more doable.
(23:41):
Um, yeah, like I said, for me it, forme, I'm such like, I mean, you know,
I've, I've got four kids I'm running,I'm doing all, doing a ton of stuff.
I don't always have time to watch a video,but I can glance down at a quick text.
So for me personally.
I think either way it was great.
Just, I think it's the effort of reachingout is the bigger thing, how you do
(24:05):
it, whether it's via video or just viajust some words on a screen, but, but.
Regardless, it's the effort of reachingout, putting me into that system
that when on Fridays or Mondays orwhatever day you do it, and you send
out that update of conditional approvaldone, you know, it's like that is a
bigger thing and let's me know thatI'm gonna be able to provide and be.
(24:31):
Knowledgeable of the updates, whetherI'm working on the buyer's side
or I'm working on the seller side.
It it's, it's, it's the, it's the,just the effort of reaching out and
the effort of providing the updates.
I'm telling you, effort goes a long way.
A long way.
Yeah.
It does
Dale Vermillion (24:48):
love that.
So if there was one thing that youwish lenders did that they don't
do, what would that one thing be?
Michael Tomlin (25:02):
That's a good
Dale Vermillion (25:02):
question.
Michael Tomlin (25:03):
Um,
beyond, beyond the, what we'vealready talked about, right?
We, we, we've talked about communicationand, and just, and just being there.
I think, I wish that lendershad a little bit better
(25:24):
knowledge in certain aspects of.
Of their own job.
And I don't mean thatin a derogatory sense.
I mean that in a growing and learningsense because there's a lot of
lenders that I have come across and,and you know as well, when you have
(25:44):
a real estate boom, it seems likeeverybody gets into the business.
You have new lenders.
Yep.
You have new realtors, you have new title.
Yep.
So you have all this stuff and.
When you have people that come in,there is when you are dealing with
a hard situation with a buyer and.
(26:07):
You have being able to have the abilityto go, okay, I have to be one step ahead
of you in every part of this transaction.
And because if something were to happen, Ihave a plan B, I have a plan C, and I have
a plan D. And it's knowing the abilityto, to to stay a step ahead and knowing if
(26:28):
something happens, I can always do this.
It may change this and this.
But we can fix it.
Yeah.
And, and I've, and there's a lotof lenders that I've come across
that it's kind of face value.
Like if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.
But they didn't go through the process totry to go, here's how I can overcome this
problem and this problem and this problem.
(26:48):
And, and I just, it.
That is the, that would be one thingthat I think I wish lenders had and
those who are far experienced, theykind of been through enough of Yeah.
Practice to know that.
Yeah.
But because there's so much of the newcrew that have kind of come in over
(27:08):
the last five years, there's just,that's one side of things that I, I, I
would love to see, you know, be, and,and, and what happens is, as my job.
I have to know a littlebit about everything.
I have to know a little bit aboutmortgage and lending and yep.
When I, because I have a relationship withmy lender, I, by natural conversation,
(27:34):
they begin to talk to me about, well,you know, if we did this, and this
is to change, I mean, it allows meto also become more knowledgeable
because now I'm able to talk to thatbuyer to kinda reinforce exactly what
that lender was just saying to them,because I now know that, and so.
That's the kind of thing that I wishI would see more lenders do that.
(27:57):
That they don't just come in and say,oh, we can do that, that and that.
And you know that.
And I mean, no, we, there's the if, ifyou are a true professional, you are
really trying to grow, you're reallytrying to make it in the business.
You really have to be willingto learn new things, learn
new ways, new tips and tricks.
It's so important.
Dale Vermillion (28:16):
Very cool.
So you, you mentioned, um, beforewe got on, and I'd love to hear a
little bit about this, that the realestate business is gonna be changing
quite a bit in the coming years.
What are some of the things that yousee on the horizon that you think
are gonna change in the way thatpeople buy and sell real estate?
(28:40):
There's, that is a loaded question.
Michael Tomlin (28:44):
So,
so, uh, uh, the, the NARsettlement, we will start here
because that's where we left off.
The NARS settlement will cre you.
It's, it's,
it's a lot more about disclosure.
You're disclosing what you're being paid.
(29:06):
Okay.
Yeah.
Um, I love, love, love that a, that FannieMae, Freddie Mac, I believe that they
came out and said, Hey, we will coverbuyer agent commission, and it's not
wrapped into seller concession percentage.
Love that.
I, I think that's that really helpful.
And it puts the consumerfirst by, by, by doing that.
(29:28):
So I love that.
Um.
I think that you're gonna see,it's gonna take some time, um,
to, to, to go through this.
I, I think it'll take a couple of yearsbefore we really start seeing some things,
but there's going to be some consumers,
(29:53):
because I do this for a living.
Cons, I hear that consumers.
They think that realestate agents are overpaid.
You know, they think that, youknow, we don't do anything.
And
I, my goal is to show themby my work ethic that there
(30:13):
are people who are like that.
Yes, but I'm not one of them.
You know?
Um, and, and, and.
So we're gonna see a, I think we'regonna see a wave of, um, discount
brokers and, and, and, and whatnotthat are gonna come in and they're
gonna try to capitalize on it because.
That's just, that's, that's,that's the way of the business.
(30:36):
Um, you're, I'll be honest, I don'tthink we're gonna see a significant
decrease in commissions paid nationally.
And I, I, I'll tell you why.
Because pre na settlement, you saw,I'm gonna come in, I'm gonna charge you
four or five, 6%, whatever percentagethat, that they, they charge will
(30:57):
split x with, with the buyer's agent.
That's done.
Now it is easier to walk in and go,okay, listen, my professional fee's
3%, what would you like to pay?
The buyer's agent seller says, I don'twanna pay one until we get an offer.
So tell them I'll entertain,uh, an a buyer agent commission.
Uh, but I'm not going topre-negotiate one upfront.
(31:24):
Okay, that's fine.
Do you, do you understandthe repercussions of, of what
happens if you were to do that?
We may miss buyers who are,you know, director agent.
Yes, I understand that.
Okay, cool.
Well, let's do that.
So they're only paying 3% atthe signing of those agreement.
You got a buyer's agent that comes inand says, okay, listen, my profession
fees three point a half percent.
(31:44):
Now it's a simple work into the deal.
It's that, that's a simpleshift into, we'll just.
Put that into the purchaseprice and we're done.
Oh, your lender canalso cover part of that.
Great.
Now I'm paid three and a halfversus the 2% that I would've
been paid six months ago.
I think that that's part of the thingthat we're gonna see, that this is
(32:07):
actually gonna be a bite in the butttowards the sellers because this
started because of sellers thought.
You know, there was a whole disclosureissue and they didn't realize
they were paying and there wasall this, this stuff that came up.
But I think what's actually gonna happenis, um, we're not gonna see a shift
in commissions paid, especially thosethat bring true value to the deal.
(32:32):
So that's one of the thingsthat I just, I, that I'm seeing.
Um, and, and, and it's, and it's a verysimple way to word it as you're speaking
to a seller or you're speaking to a buyerand, you know, um, but it's a, it's gonna
be interesting to see how this phases out.
We're getting, we're, we're obviously,I think we'll lose a good part of
(32:53):
the, what I call part-timer, um,where it's not a real profession,
it's kind of a side hustle.
I think we'll lose some of that as well.
Um, which is, for me, that'sgreat because that's what I do.
That's what I do for a living.
Um, but Right.
But I do think we're gonna swe'll, we'll see a shift away
from some of the part-timers.
Um, and, and you know, that'll, that, thatwill open up the market to those who truly
(33:17):
take this on as a, as a real profession.
Dale Vermillion (33:21):
Good.
Well, great stuff Michael.
Appreciate all the insight and the wisdom.
Uh, let me, let me close with the lastquestion that I ask all of my guests.
You, you've been verysuccessful in your career.
Um, you're, you're top onepoint a half percent in the
country in real estate agents.
That's an amazing accomplishment.
Mm-hmm.
Um.
Tell me about who has mentored youin your life, um, and, and how much
(33:46):
you valued that in your career, um,over your career that has helped
you get to where you're at today.
Michael Tomlin (33:55):
So when I first got into the business, I.
I came out of an industry that wasan, was an e-commerce style business.
And so I was, you know,phone calls and emails.
They really didn't freak me out'cause I was used to it anyways.
And I rem like there was a couple of guysthat I, I was with a different brokerage
(34:21):
back then and there were a couple of guysthat were about, had about 10 years on me.
Um.
Family, men, um, you know, were, wewere, he and I both were, um, kind
of, we, we, we, we served in, in localchurches and we did a couple things.
And, um, and I just was curious,asking questions and, and
(34:45):
wanting to learn and, and grow.
And, and, and he was like, yeah, sure.
Come on in.
And we will, you know, and I, and I,I'll let you just kind of shadow me and.
We only did that probablytwo or three times.
It wasn't that much.
But what I took away from it was like,man, that just, it just took, so, like,
I was amazed at just the willingness togo, I'm gonna let you in on all that I do.
(35:11):
Right.
Because it does.
Yep.
And, and there's a couple of otherpeople that that, that I did that
with, um, whether it was, you know,that one was done with a lot with
like cold calls and kind of generalschedule production type of things.
Then I did one that was, um, alittle bit more open house focus.
(35:31):
I did one that was like, I, I tookpeople that I wanted to, that were
about 10 years ahead of me, andthen I, and then I said, okay.
How can I learn from this,but kind of make it my own?
Like, I don't wanna copy, I wanna makeit my own, but how do I copy that?
And, and, and, and the impact thatit had on me wasn't necessarily made
(35:55):
me productive, but it, but what Ilearned was, is that if I share with
you my secrets of the industry andthe trait and what I do, you're not
gonna do exactly what I'm gonna do.
You can't, 'cause you're not me.
Right, but there's an impact that itwill leave on you and, and, and that
(36:17):
whether you stayed in the industryor not, you became better for it
as a person, and it's easy to get.
It is easy to try to, to let yourpride kind of swell up and kind of
beat your chest, especially whenyou're performing at high levels.
(36:37):
It's easy to, uh, uh, uh, kind ofbe a know-it-all with, with, with
o other people if, if you don'thave people that keep you in check.
My wife is the best.
She's incredible and she, and she is.
She wants to see me succeedin every way possible.
(36:59):
Yeah.
And when, when I look back in my career,the, the people that mattered that
were in my corner, even when stuffwasn't selling, even when stuff wasn't
moving, I still, like, you've got mywife who, you know, she, she, she goes
(37:19):
and she'll walk these listings andshe'll, she'll just pray over the house.
Right.
That's impactful for me becauseshe's just as invested as I am.
I look at my kids cool, andI go, I've got to get up.
I've gotta go to the office.
I don't want to, I'm exhausted.
I've got a migraine.
I'm, I'm not feelinggood, but they need daddy.
(37:41):
To do something today.
And so there are people that haveencouraged me, whether both in the
business but also I look outside of thebusiness and there, like my faith is a
huge, huge, integral part of who I am.
If you meet me, you will, there,there is a very good chance the name
(38:02):
Jesus is gonna come up because it'sa part of who I am and my faith.
Yep.
Is not separate from me.
I know in the world that welive in, it is, they say, you
need to keep that separate.
I. And that's fine.
If, if, if me having a faith in Jesusmakes you not wanna do business with
(38:22):
me, then we don't need to do businesstogether because that's who I am.
And if you're hiringme, you're hiring that.
And so there, there, there's.
Just through life.
There are people thathave spoken into my life.
There are, there are experiences thathas allowed me to go, Hey, you know what?
I'm not gonna change who I am.
If you, if you want Michael Tomlin,you're gonna get Michael Tomlin and
(38:45):
I'm gonna work my hardest for youto make this, this, this transaction
work buyer or seller, doesn't matter.
But, but you are gonna get who I'm,who I am, and the opportunities
that, that this has given me farexceeds any accolades that I may get.
The accolades are great.
They, they, it kind ofshows, hey, he's good.
(39:06):
He knows what he's doing, but at the endof the day, it doesn't truly provide me
with fulfillment if my, the fulfillmentof the business comes far beyond what.
How much money that I could make, whataccolades that I could have, any of that.
And at the end of the day, you,it's, it's, it's, it's about giving
(39:27):
back to others and it's aboutpouring into, um, I. Um, it, it's
just pouring into other people.
And, and, and I say that from a, froma stance of whether you're pouring
into for us a new agent, right?
Hey, let me show you.
Right?
Or it's pouring into people in yourcommunity and, and, and pouring into
(39:51):
and, and into trying to make, um,your community better, you know?
So that's about all I got.
Dale Vermillion (39:59):
Well, I love that.
And, uh, you, you, you, that'sa great way to close out.
You and I share a, a deep faith in Jesus.
Mm-hmm.
As, um, as the centerof our lives and Yeah.
You know what I love when you said, ifyou know, if, if you don't wanna work
with me because of my faith, that's okay.
But the fact of the matter isif we're living out our faith.
The way that the Bible tells us to.
(40:19):
Right?
Then people are gonna wanna workwith us because we're going to
be the best version of ourselves.
We're going to work hard,we're going to be honest.
We're gonna do all the thingsthat, that Christ amplified when
he, when he was on this planet.
Exactly.
So, um, I love the fact thatthat's where you're centered at
and that's where I'm centered at.
That's where Caroline centered,that's where Laurel centered at.
Yeah.
And that's how we becamefriends in the first place.
(40:40):
So, uh, it's, it's.
Cool to see that that is such acentral part of what you've done,
and it's also a key part of thementoring side of what you do.
Right.
Um, so let's close out, uh, tell ushow people can, you know, check you
out, uh, find you get ahold of you.
And I also know that, you know, youand Caroline are doing a lot of work.
(41:01):
In ministry along with what you do Yeah.
In, uh, in your career, whichthey're, they're both the same thing.
Sure.
You've got the Waves Ministrythat you're helping, you know,
young girls all over the world.
Yeah.
Not just, uh, you guys just gotback from doing more of those.
And then the Kingdom Collaboration,take a minute and just share a little
bit about what you're doing on thatside, and then how people can get ahold
of you if they'd like to talk to you.
(41:22):
Okay.
Michael Tomlin (41:22):
So.
This year, so, okay, lemme back up.
My wife and I run a 5 0 1 C3 nonprofitcalled Waves Ministry and, um, really
started, she started it about 11years ago and we, she and I co-lead
and run this ministry together.
And like I said, it is a true 5 0 1C3, but w like we got back last night
(41:43):
from Colorado, we had, um, a conferencethat we did and put on over there and.
It is a, you know, we, we, wedeal with girls all over the
world, you know, we have, we haveother things that we want to do.
Obviously, we, we love to expand, alsobring in into the guys because guys need
it just as much as girls and, but, butwe, we really focus on calling an identity
(42:08):
because when you don't know who you are,it's easy to get lost into a lot of the.
Kind of that, that, you know, you dealwith cutting and depression and you deal
with anxiety and you deal with all theseidentity issues that if you don't know
who you are, all that stuff's gonna stay.
But until you know who you are, thenyou begin to, I. Um, kind of break
(42:30):
free from that because now it doesn'tmatter what you say that I am, because
I know who I am and I know whose I am.
So, you know, we, we are, that's, that'sa big part of our lives is, is waves.
So, you know, between waves andreal estate and then four kids
and running around schedules, likewe live a pretty busy, busy life.
(42:50):
Um.
But where you can, you findme, I'm the easiest to find.
It is literally Mr. MichaelTomlin on everything.
Mr. Michael Tomlin on everything.
And you can, you know, fromInstagram, you can message me.
Heck, you can, I think my phonenumber is actually on the Instagram.
You can call me from Instagram.
Like I'm, I'm very easy to get ahold of.
(43:12):
Um, I am, I am.
Uh, there is a term.
And, uh, that brokers willuse to agents and, and they
say, don't be a secret agent.
You know, like, don't let everybodyknow that, you know, and so it's
like, trust me, there's no secret.
I'm pretty well found.
So good.
So,
Dale Vermillion (43:31):
well Michael, been great to have you, uh, appreciate you
and Caroline so much, and, uh, appreciatethe, you taking time outta your busy
schedule to, to share with our audience.
Um, always great to see you, my friend.
Let's get together again soon.
Um, really, reallyappreciate this time today.
Thank you.
Michael Tomlin (43:47):
Thanks for having me.
It was good to, good to see you andtalk to you and, uh, again, easy to
be found, so I'm, I'm always around.
Dale Vermillion (43:56):
Good.
Alright guys, that is a wrap foranother Banning a thousand where we,
again, interview the heavy hittersin the mortgage real estate industry.
Thanks for being with us today.
God bless you.
We'll see you on the next one.
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