May 20, 2025 • 43 mins
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https://www.bonitahamptonsmith.com/books/
Bonita Smith is author of a new book "Dear White Women, Dear Black Women." A powerful collection of letters between Black and White women, interwoven with stories of pain, forgiveness, and the transformative power of compassion. This collection aims to bridge the divide between women and start the healing of a nation’s soul. Bonita is currently the Chief Operating Officer of the Martin Luther King Jr. Center for Nonviolent Change in Atlanta Georgia.
Bonita grew up in Mariana, Arkansas which appeared as a small, impoverished town to outsiders but to her and her community was to her a place "rich in love" where neighbors shared everything from food to childcare, embodying the beloved community concept before she even had words for it.
Smith's leadership philosophy draws from unexpected sources – her experience as a basketball point guard taught her the power of offensive strategy, while caring for her quadriplegic brother revealed how organizations become paralyzed when leadership disconnects from the team. Her stark metaphor of leaders as "the neck" of an organization provides a vivid understanding of how energy and vision must flow freely to create movement and impact.
The raw vulnerability Smith brings to this conversation is breathtaking. She shares a pivotal moment where she nearly chose a destructive path before finding her purpose through faith and prison ministry. This turning point led her to become the first female chaplain in DeKalb County Jail. Her approach to difficult conversations through storytelling demonstrates how leaders can create space for truth and reconciliation.
What sets Smith apart is her radical reimagining of leadership as fundamentally rooted in love. She provocatively challenges conventional thinking about diversity and inclusion, arguing they are merely outcomes of love-conscious leadership, not standalone solutions. "If you are constantly dealing with outcomes that you're trying to dismantle, that's not the problem. You have to get to the root causes," she explains. Her call for leaders to do their inner healing work first turns leadership development inside out, focusing on wholeness before strategy.
Smith's declaration that she's "not opening doors for anyone - I'm taking the hinges off" perfectly captures her approach to creating fluid opportunities rather than gatekeeping. Her vision for women discovering their power to transform families, organizations, and societies offers hope for healing our deepest divisions. Whether you're a seasoned leader or just beginning your journey, this conversation will challenge you to lead from love and build a legacy that truly matters.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Be A Baller where we're building a
lifelong legacy for our families, communities and the world.
Your host, coach Tim Brown, isexcited for you to join him on
this journey.
On each episode, we'll betalking about how to be
intentional about building alasting legacy.
We'll be exploring what itmeans to leave a mark that goes
(00:22):
beyond just our lives but has apositive impact on those around
us and even generations to come.
So if you're looking forinspiration, guidance and
practical tips on how to build alasting legacy that makes a
difference, then you're in theright place.
So grab your earbuds, getcomfortable and let's dive in.
It's time to be a baller.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Welcome to Be, a Baller podcast where we're
building a lifelong legacy,where we dive in the journeys of
individuals who are not justachieving success but are
intentionally crafting legaciesthat inspire and uplift.
I'm your host, coach Tim Brown,and today I'm honored to be
speaking with Benita Smith, avisionary leader whose work is a
testimony of the power oflove-led leadership and racial
(01:08):
healing.
Over two decades of experiencein leadership development,
spiritual formation andtransformational coaching,
benita has dedicated her life tohelping others rise to the
highest and most liberated selfNot just anybody, but liberated
setting people free and what ablessing that is.
She's also the chief operatingofficer of the Martin Luther
(01:28):
King Jr Center for NonviolentViolence Change.
Bernita's work is more thanjust a profession.
It's a divine assignment.
Her unwavering commitment toservice, empowerment and healing
has made her a beacon of lightfor navigating purpose and
transformation.
So get ready to be inspired intoday's conversation, learn how
Bernita is building a legacythat will resonate for
(01:49):
generations to come.
Bernita, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Thank you.
Thank you, do they call youCoach Brown?
Yeah, coach.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Brown is fine.
Yeah, people don't even know myreal name, but it's Tim Brown.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
I know it's Tim Brown , but I was reading about you, I
saw Coach Brown.
I know it's Tim Brown, but Iwas reading about you I saw.
Coach Brown so thank you,that's me.
I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yeah, I know you're a Southern girl and you're raised
in Mariana, Arkansas.
Big old metropolis, Big oldtown.
I saw it with everything Allthe fancy restaurants, big
hotels and all that Big old twored lights.
I also know that you grew up ina big family in the South.
(02:30):
Can you talk about growing upin the South during those times
and how the village raised you?
Speaker 3 (02:37):
You know, mariana, at the time I didn't know it was
small, I just knew it was home.
I didn't know we were thesecond poorest county in the
nation.
At the time I had no idea thatwe were considered an
impoverished county because thesoil and the people were so rich
(02:57):
.
We were rich in love and ourfamilies were connected.
You know, have you everunderstood what people talk
about when they talk aboutinterrelatedness and
interconnectedness?
That's growing up in Mariana,arkansas.
And while there were twodifferent high schools when I
was growing up, one for whitepeople who had substance, money
(03:19):
and what have you?
The white people and the blackpeople that attended the schools
that I went to.
We were just children gettingalong.
We were just children learningto play together and get along.
And yes, my mother had 10children.
(03:42):
We had a total of 13.
My oldest brother, john.
He died as a child.
And then my brother, henry, whowas a paraplegic.
He died in his teen years, andso we were raised in a three
bedroom home with all thosechildren.
So can you imagine growing upsharing twin beds, not even
knowing that that was a normal,because to us we were just
(04:03):
family, and I am most grateful,coach Brown, that I grew up in
those rooms with my sisters andbrothers, because at this phase
in my life my family iseverything, absolutely
everything.
I'll tell you something elseabout Mariana.
You know part of my work youtalked about the King Center is
sharing people, sharing withpeople the vision of the beloved
(04:24):
community.
Well, when you think aboutgrowing up in Mariana, if you
didn't have Tim, guess what?
If we had it, you can have it.
We had this neighbor, missAgnes, miss Agnes, which is
called my mother.
Let her know I'm going in yourhouse, bernice.
I need a chicken, and so shewould.
(04:45):
Whatever she needed.
Or if my mother needed a cup ofsugar, she'd send me over to Ms
Shoemake's house.
And that's how we live.
We shared groceries, we sharedchildren, we just we grew up as
family, and I'll share this lastthing because it'll frame some
of our latter discussion.
The one thing that I was notaware of was the blue and black
(05:09):
relationships in America,because in our town police
officers, my brother Terry,would get in trouble.
He would go to jail in Mariana,arkansas.
He would come home forlunchtime and eat with us, then
go back to the jailhouse, or wewould go up there.
He's outside doing stuff.
And I remember I had a ticketthat I hadn't paid for and one
(05:34):
of the police officers said butyou need to go down there and
take care of that ticket.
So I would call my sister, saySharon, they have a ticket on me
, can you pull it?
And so that was my life withpolice officers.
The last story I share isSheriff Holmes.
He lived down the street fromus and one day my brother
decided he wanted to grow someweed.
The sheriff came down, saidBernie boy out there growing
(05:57):
weed.
He didn't go to jail, my motherjust had to get the weed up,
you know.
And so I was not conscious ofwhat was happening in the rest
of the world with my Blacksisters and brothers, because of
how we grew up in MarianaArkansas.
So that's a little bit about mychildhood, I know it sounds
(06:17):
like Andy Griffin, doesn't it?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Yeah, y'all can do a television series.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
We really really could.
Could you know, I'll tell youthis, my mother, she passed of
cancer and this is just anindicator of how we grew up.
When my mother came here toatlanta to live with us when she
was dying of cancer, uh, uh,pam golet mother, you know, pam
goette, her mother sent mymother some greens from her
(06:46):
garden through FedEx because mymother wanted some greens.
She said I want some greensgrown from the garden.
And Regina Stone, my mother'sfriend, told her I tell you what
, bernice, you ought to getthose greens.
And the next couple of daysthose greens were coming to the
door through FedEx, not throughProger, not through Publix, but
through FedEx from the groundsof Mariana Arkansas.
(07:10):
So, that's just how we grew up.
Those are the people we grew uparound.
If I got out of, got out of youknow, if I was in trouble and I
was acting up, they hadpermission to spank my behind,
you know.
And so that's, that's how wegrew up, and I'm so grateful for
it now.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Amen, you know the word is.
You were very active in highschool and school, involved in
sports, drama club, studentcouncil and all kinds of things.
How did these experiences helpyou develop your leadership
style today and the life lessonsyou learned from those
experiences?
Speaker 3 (07:47):
You know, I was active, I ran track, I was young
, I was a cheerleader, I wasvery active, I loved volleyball.
I tell you, the sports that hadthe most influence on me,
though, was basketball.
I handled the ball, I was pointguard, I was very good
offensively, and most of mystrategies of life are offensive
(08:09):
.
I believe in offensivestrategies because I think
defense will tire you out, andyou don't win a game if you
don't have an offensive strategy.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
You got to get some points on the board.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
You got to get some points on the board.
You got to get some points onthe board, and so I think that's
part of my life strategy is tomake sure I'm strong on the
offense so that I don't have toconstantly react to things you
know, and so you study yourweaknesses, you study the things
(08:39):
that you know that you need todismantle, to improve so that
you can become a better person.
To improve so that you canbecome a better person.
That's a strong offensivestrategy.
So when things start to come atyou, you've already dealt with
your stuff you know, and sostrengthening your offense is
key in life for me, and so Ithink basketball has played the
is my life lesson.
(09:00):
I'll say that that's why Ilearned my life lesson is
handling the ball, gettingpoints on the board, studying
your partners, or you'restudying your partners, studying
the people you work with.
When you study people andunderstand how they navigate,
you can also come up with youroffensive strategies in life,
whether you're going into aboard meeting or you have a
(09:22):
collaboration dealing withpartners, partners, even in a
marriage, you need to stay onthe offense.
In a marriage, you, youunderstand your partner so you
can create offensive strategies,you know wow, that's powerful
there, because no team.
You gotta have a good pointguard you gotta have a good
point guard and you, you alsohave to always be conscious of
(09:46):
the other player's game, youknow and so when you study it.
I used to have this uh, we hadthis turtle in our house, uh,
and the poor little turtle wasjust dying.
We had him on rocks and and hewas dying.
So we went to the pet store andwe were like what's happening?
We don't know what to do withthis turtle.
And the gentleman the pet storesaid, well, it's an what's
happening, we don't know what todo with this turtle.
And the gentleman at the petstore said, well, it's an
aquatic turtle.
(10:07):
And so we did not have theturtle in water, we had him on
all these little rocks and stuff.
So when we put the turtle inwater, the turtle started to
thrive.
So my whole, what I took awayfrom that whole ordeal, is this
when you know the animal, youknow how to deal with this.
When you know the animal, youknow how to deal with it.
When you know the animal, youknow how to deal with it.
(10:30):
So it's very important that youstudy the people that you work
with, study the people youengage with, do a lot of
information gathering, educateyourself so that you know how to
navigate offensive strategies.
That's it.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
That's it.
Well, you can be a coach.
The way you're talking, Jackyou can go back and sit on the
sideline and coach up somebody'steam.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
I coach in a different way, you know.
I coach in a different way.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Amen, amen.
You also know that you are,that you are a strong woman of
faith.
Can you talk about your faithjourney?
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Yeah, you know.
So my faith journey is alsorooted in my upbringing.
So while I was very popular, asyou said, I was popular, I was
very good in school, but therewas this thing that was not
connecting for me.
And in my reflection as anadult, one thing I realized is
(11:26):
that I just couldn't ever seemyself.
I could never see myself asmuch as our parents try to give
us.
If parents don't give thechildren a gift of purpose you
know, and help childrenunderstand who they are, they
can find themselves later on inlife lost.
And so I was a soul just kindof lost for a while.
(11:48):
And I remember when I came hereto, I transferred from Arkansas
State to go to Clark Atlantaand my father died.
I was trying to find money tostay in school and I went to the
financial aid office and thelady just did not help me at all
and I was just lost.
It took me.
(12:09):
It was a journey completingschool as an adult.
I didn't finish until later on.
Because of that I was just lostand trying to find myself.
I remember sitting on the hillat Park Atlanta University and
trying to figure out what I wasgoing to do, and now I haven't
ever shared this story withanyone.
(12:29):
So this is hot off the pressfor you.
And I decided I was going to bevulnerable and share it.
When I didn't know what to do,my friend, I had one friend at
Clark and we decided we weregoing to go strip to make some
money and I didn't have the gutsto go first.
So Crystal said I'll go first,benita, and Crystal went first.
(12:51):
And when Crystal came back Isaid how was it?
Crystal told me that she saidwell, I had to drink until I
couldn't feel anything.
Now, coach Brown, I don't knowwhat it was, but something
inside of me said oh, you got todetach from your soul to do
this.
It wasn't in those words, but Icould feel that, you know, and
(13:14):
that was the reason why it tookme a longer journey, because I
knew I could not go strip.
I just could not.
So, as life would have it, Iwould meet this lady, lorraine
Daniels, who introduced me toprison ministry, and I started
to volunteer in church andactually gave my life to Christ
and started working in prisonministry.
(13:35):
Prison ministry led me tounderstand that I really, really
wanted to dedicate my time toserve women who were
incarcerated.
I went on to become licensed inministry and become the first
female chaplain in DeKalb CountyJail.
So I spent a lot of my lifehelping other women discover
(13:55):
their business, because I knowwhat it's like to fumble in the
dark for so long.
I know what it's like to almostchoose the wrong pathway
because to this day I do notknow where Crystal is.
I don't know where she is.
I remember she started to dosome other things.
I don't know where she landed,but I do know that was a
critical, defining moment in mylife that had I chosen to go
(14:19):
that route, I don't know where Iwould be today that.
My mother taught me about Godat an early age.
You know they we had to go tochurch.
If you stayed out all nightskating, you still had to get up
and go to church on Sunday.
So I'm so grateful for thatfoundation because that had to
be the thing that grounded me inthat moment.
You know what I mean.
(14:40):
That had to be the thing to sayyou know what, benita, you
can't go do that.
You can't drink till you can'thear your, your, your voice,
your, your inner voice and, um,so, yeah, uh, that's my journey
of getting to this space.
I've never shared this story,you know, but I said to myself
you know what?
Uh, it's time to let peopleknow what it's like to fumble in
(15:04):
the dark and find your way.
They don't have to see all thepretty pictures Sometimes.
They need to know how did youget there?
And it wasn't an easy journey.
I will tell nobody that it wasnot an easy journey finding my
way, but I am so grateful forChrist, I'm so grateful that I
(15:25):
found God.
I'm so grateful for that littlechurch in Poplar called Poplar
Springs, where one day I had onthis red and white dress.
I had probably clubbed myselfto death, but I went there, I
had on this red and white dressand I heard this man preaching
and I went to that altar cryingand I knew whatever he was
talking about.
I needed just that.
(15:46):
I need this thing that you'retalking about.
If this thing can cause me toturn my life around.
I need it.
If this thing can cause me tostop hurting.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
I need it.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
If this thing can cause me to see myself, I need
it.
And when I tell you I could notsee myself until I found God, I
could not see myself until Ifound God and allowed the Holy
Spirit to guide and lead my life.
So that's my journey.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
You know, as you were sharing, I always sometimes
share with persons how peoplesee our glory, but they don't
know the story.
It's one.
And then, as you were sharing,I was thinking.
The Bible says there's one manplants, the seeds was planted,
and then the other young ladywatered it.
That church, that little church, watered it and God gets the
increase.
That's how it works.
(16:36):
So seeds were planted, somebodycame along and watered it, and
then God is also rain.
Look at God.
That's all I can say.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Look, look, look at God.
And there were a lot of seedsalong the way.
I remember, see, when I was achild and I was at this church,
my mother, we, like I said, wealways had to go to church.
And Miss Mary Brown said oneday she doesn't realize this I
was just walking and she said,bernice, it's something special
(17:05):
about that little girl rightthere.
Oh, that was a seed, because Iremember that I don't know what,
I just knew Miss Mary said thatwas something special about
that little girl.
And I think adults should knowthat words are so powerful,
words are so powerful sown inthe soul of a child.
And so I just want, if we takeaway nothing else, coach Brown,
(17:26):
I hope that we understand thesoul of a child.
And so I just want, if we takeaway nothing else, coach Brown,
I hope that we understand thepower of our words and how they
frame identities and how theycan either tear a child up or
build a child up.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
You know you're known for that infectious laughter
and I can see that now and thenyou also.
You know your life's work isdeeply rooted in love-led
leadership and spiritualformation.
Can you share some more ofthose spiritual I mean pivotal
moments or experience thatignited that passion in you?
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Well, in all transparency, the love
leadership is rooted in myevolution of really studying Dr
King.
So, as the chief operatingofficer of the King Center, one
of the things that we had tolearn was we had to study Dr
King, but we also had to startto study nonviolence.
(18:21):
And as a Baptist trained androoted in Baptist traditions and
religion, I never really leanedinto studying other religions
other than what was required ofme in Bible college.
But Dr King had this way ofstudying other philosophers,
(18:42):
other theologians andsynthesizing truths, and so that
was very powerful for me.
And then understandingnonviolence as a love-centered
way of thinking, a love-centeredway of acting, a love-centered
way of speaking and engaging,when you start to look at love
(19:02):
as a structure and a strategyfor life, that was very, very
powerful for me.
To see a whole movement thatwas rooted in love and had the
power to transform a system, hadthe power to dismantle an
unjust system and cause peopleto shift, that's some power.
So you take the power that youknow in your foundation of
(19:24):
understanding who God is, andthen you start to understand
that love can be a strategy,love can be a construct that can
begin to dismantle unjustsystems.
And when you start to thinkabout things through the lens of
love, like, let's just take,for instance, you say you want
to go into Mariana and you wantto transform Mariana.
Well, you can go in there,bulldoze and start tearing
(19:46):
things down, but you could alsogo in with the lens of love and
begin to understand the people,listen to the people.
That's what love does.
Love goes into a situation andseeks no harm.
Love goes into a situation andseeks to understand.
Love goes to seek how can weall come together, build
together, grow together?
Love as a strategy goes in andconsiders all things and ensures
(20:11):
no harm is done.
And so when I started to studynonviolence and understand, if I
think, speak, act and engage ina way that's love-centered, how
powerful can that be?
How powerful can it be whenleaders start to lead and lead
in a way where they're thinkingfrom a love centered place,
acting from a love centeredplace, engaging from a love
(20:32):
centered place.
So I would say my faithfoundation compiled with that
which I learned throughnonviolence.
And I will also add anotherlayer of my teachings of Joe
Dispenza's teaching, some JoeDispenza's teaching.
Have you ever studied JoeDispenza and understand the
scientific basis of how we thinkand understand scientifically
(20:54):
how you can truly, truly rewireyour brain, and so those three
are the foundation to how I gotto this space of understanding.
Using love as a strategy can bethe most powerful
transformative force that we canimagine.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
You know, speaking of that, you often describe
leaders as chief energy officers.
Can you elaborate on how aleader's energy influences
organization, organizationalculture and success?
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Absolutely.
You know I'm going to use Ialways use my brother, who was a
quadriplegic.
My brother broke his neck andso, no matter what signals he
sent to the rest of his body, itjust didn't work because he was
paralyzed.
So the first thing I wantedleaders to understand that it's
(21:48):
so important to protect yourneck.
The neck are the leaders thatare right.
You know, your C-suiteexecutives, your senior leaders.
It's important to make surethat you're protecting that neck
because if that neck everdisconnects from your vision,
the rest of your body isparalyzed.
That means the rest of yourorganization is shot, the rest
of your church is gone.
(22:09):
Whatever body, a group ofpeople you're trying to lead, if
you're disconnected from yourcenter leadership and they no
longer can see your visionbecause I don't know how you've
been treating them, I don't knowwhat you've been saying and I
don't know what you've beendoing, but if you've caused a
disconnection from your C-suite,your senior leaders, the rest
of your body is gone.
(22:30):
And my brother, as he laidthere, he was a great thinker,
he could tell jokes, he couldwant his hands to move, but they
did not move because he wasdetached from his neck.
The other thing I want leadersto understand.
The reason why I call themchief energy officers is because
the atmosphere you create, howyou speak, how you treat people,
(22:53):
how you lead, you're going tosee that permeate throughout
your entire culture.
If you believe great things canhappen in your organization,
that you have a team of greatleaders who can do wonderful
things, who are extraordinary intheir own right and you are
lifting them up, you're going tosee that thing contagious in
the atmosphere.
But if you are a leader thatshoots down, tears down and
(23:16):
always down, I guarantee youyou're going to see threads of
that in the atmosphere, in theculture, and you're going to see
a lot of unproductive peopleand probably a lot of turnover.
Because, guess what?
People don't leaveorganizations, they leave people
.
They don't leave organizations,they leave because, guess what,
coach Brown, you suck, you suckand I got to go.
(23:36):
And so it's so important.
The one thing that you cannottrick people with is your energy
.
Energy does not lie, it cannotlie, it just is.
And so it's so important forCEOs to understand that what
they put out there in theatmosphere, it's going to
(23:57):
transfer all the way down to theperson on the front line at the
receptions.
They're going to feel your vibe.
So they always talk about thetone at the top.
I call them chief energyofficers because they really do
set the tone at the top.
So that's where I get that from.
And my brother like I said, mybrother being a quadriplegic
(24:18):
really, really taught me avaluable lesson about staying
connected to your neck.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
That's a great analogy.
You didn't rename the C-suitethat's a great analogy.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
You didn't rename the c-suite, it's the neck.
Though think about it.
You go into a place and you gota lot of unhappy leaders.
They're unhappy with the chiefleader.
Uh, it's going to show up inthe way they treat people.
It would take a very aware, aleader within that whole neck
network to be able to get overhow they're being treated by,
(24:49):
you know, their CEO or by theirpresident, because if you're not
treating them well, it's hardfor them to muster up the energy
to be everything they need tobe.
While they can still be goodpeople in that C-suite, it's
still hard to deal with thatkind of energy when you have a
leader that just isn't kind, aleader that just does not treat
(25:10):
people well.
My girlfriend and I we'reworking on a workshop in my next
book is women leading well,because it's so important that
you leave from a healthy place.
It's so important that you haveyour own self-love, your own
self-awareness, because if youdon't love yourself, you're not
going to understand how to treatother people well, and so it's
(25:32):
important to be well in order tolead well.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Well, you're dropping so many gems on here.
We just really getting started.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Well, you're asking the questions and I appreciate
it because I am passionate aboutthis work, because, like I said
, I know what it's like tofumble in the dark and, if I
don't do anything else, I wantto wake people up to some of the
things that I've had to fumbleand learn.
If I had to fumble and learn,then let me turn the light on so
you don't have to fumble in thedark.
(26:02):
Oh Lord, yeah, why do we letother people repeat our mistakes
?
Just turn the light on for them.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Just turn the light on.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
My motto now, Coach Brown, is that I'm not opening
doors for anyone.
I'm taking the hinges off.
I'm making the doors fluid.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Take the hinges off.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Why should?
Speaker 2 (26:24):
the door even close on people.
Why?
Speaker 3 (26:25):
is this door of opportunity closing?
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Make it fluid.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Those who are supposed to come in should be
able to just go in.
Why?
Speaker 1 (26:31):
are we closing?
Speaker 3 (26:32):
doors, opening doors.
No, if you're in there, youhave the power to do it.
Take the hinges off, make itfluid, create an arch and let
them just flow in.
You know.
Boy you just answered so good.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
You got me stuttering here.
The way you flow, you know,with all your two decades of
experience.
As we talk about leadershipdevelopment, what are some of
those significant shifts youobserve in leadership paradigms,
especially concerning love andjustice?
Speaker 3 (27:05):
The main leadership shift.
Let me make sure I understandyour question again.
Say that one more because Iwant to make sure I'm answering
your question.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Well, from your experience in leadership
development, what are some ofthose significant shifts you've
observed in leadership,especially concerning love and
justice?
Speaker 3 (27:24):
I think the shift that I'm seeing now is
understanding that it is sopivotal for us to understand
root causes and dismantle fromthe root and when the more
leaders are patient enough to dothat work, because it's not the
pretty work, it's not theglorified work, but I'm seeing
(27:47):
that people are understandingthat things are still persisting
and we've got to do somethingdifferent.
And so I'm seeing in spacespeople are starting to say ask
the right questions.
And once you start asking theright questions, you can get to
root causes.
The only way you can change ortransform systems is to deal
(28:08):
with the root causes, and wespent a lot of time and I'm
going to say this on yourpodcast, so I hope you don't get
in trouble for it but one ofthe things I've been saying
lately is that we've beendealing with diversity, equity
and inclusion when the rootcause is not having a love
conscious leadership, becausediversity, equity, inclusion are
(28:31):
outcomes.
They're outcomes of systemsthat are driven and structured
in love and a love consciousness.
When you have loveconsciousness in dealing with
your systems, guess what?
They're going to be inclusive,they're going to be diverse,
they're going to be equitable,they're going to be all the
things that looks like and feelslike a belonging culture,
(28:53):
because you're a love center.
So if you are constantlydealing with outcomes that
you're trying to deal with anddismantle, that's not the
problem.
You have to get to the rootcauses.
And so I think the shifts thatI'm seeing are people beginning
to ask the right questions,because that'll get us to
understand now how do we reallytransform this system.
(29:13):
And so it's starting to edgethere and I'm hoping to see more
of it.
It's the intentionality of mywork, because I absolutely
believe, if we start to shift,love is not a weak word.
People think love is a weakword.
It's one of the most powerfulforces.
You know, I think Gandhi calledit Satyagraha, soul's force.
(29:34):
It's a soul force.
It's a force that is sopowerful.
It's the only force that candismantle hate and darkness, and
so we've got to utilize it as astrength, as a strategy and as
a structure to begin to buildsystems and programs and things
that work for society as a whole.
So that's the shift that I'mseeing are people asking the
(29:57):
right questions now, becausethey see that you know what.
This thing that we're dealingwith now is so huge that we've
got to study, we've got tounderstand what's really
happening in culture, climateand politics and in our national
leadership.
We've got to begin to reallyget to the root causes.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
That's good you know you've written several books.
What was the vision behind?
I'm really excited about yourlatest book.
What was the vision behind yourlatest book, dear White Women,
dear Black Women, where youbrought together 56 women to
share their truths?
What role do you feel thatstorytelling plays in that?
Speaker 3 (30:37):
So I'll answer the first question first, which is
the vision behind it?
Like most people after thekilling of George Floyd, I was.
You know, we've seen, we hadseen a lot.
It wasn't the first time we hadheard or seen of a black person
being brutalized or killed atthe hands of a police officer,
(31:00):
but 2020, we were all shelteringin place and we were frozen in
time, and so it was somethingabout the stillness of that
tragedy happening in thestillness and the quietness of
the pandemic, and that everybodywas watching.
And I think anything that youwere dealing with or it just it
just started to bring it to thesurface, that you were dealing
(31:22):
with, or it just it just startedto bring it to the surface,
anything that you had deeplyrooted regarding racism,
regarding white supremacy,regarding, uh, the divides in
our country, it just came to apulsating head, you know.
And so I was angry, I washurting, I was angry, I was mad,
but none of those emotions weregoing to serve me well, and so
(31:43):
I went into prayer and I telleverybody I was not so smart, or
I am not so smart that I cameup with this on my own.
It literally was given to me inprayer.
I mean the whole strategy wasgiven to me in prayer and
meditation Literally get whitewomen to write letters to black
women, black women to writeletters to white women, so that
(32:03):
we can start to tell our truthsand we can start to get to the
root causes.
If you would deal with the rootcauses of the matter and so
that was my why, that's how Igot there and that's why I it's
so that we can start to dealwith our root causes.
Storytelling, just like I'mtelling you stories today, allow
(32:27):
us to see each other.
The more you see me and get toknow me, you look past all the
surface things and you say, oh,this is who Bonita is, oh, this
is who Tim is.
We start to understand ourinterconnectedness, our common
humanity threads, and that'swhere we can discover how can we
(32:47):
work together.
And my goal in thisstorytelling is to get women to
start to work together well inour truths and being healed.
I was reading one of theletters I read them periodically
.
I've read the book a few times,but read them periodically and
this one white woman.
She talked about how she haddone all these things.
(33:09):
She raised black children, shewould work for defects.
She did all these things andshe wanted to be black, she said
.
Until I understood what blackpeople were really dealing with,
then I realized it was scary.
And she said so I no longerwanted to be black.
But in the core she thought shewas so liberated that she
thought she understood, untilGeorge Floyd she didn't realize
(33:33):
that she thought she was betterthan black people.
She said I didn't realize thatI was racist, I didn't realize I
had my own prejudice.
And she penned this so thatother Black women can hear her
story.
And I was just.
I'm touched to know thatsomeone is willing to get in
touch with their own stuff,willing to put it out there and
(33:55):
say this is where I am, but I'mcommitted to being better, and
that's what this is all about.
This is where I am, but I'mcommitted to being better.
And that's what this is allabout.
Women telling their stories,getting to our collective
healing individual healing first, collective healing.
And then how do we worktogether well and leave this
world better for our children?
Because that's what it's allabout.
(34:19):
How do we do something betterso that the next generation they
don't have this layer to dealwith?
Our parents did that for us.
So what do we do for thisgeneration?
So that you know what we'vedismantled this so you all can
go to the next level.
So that was my goal to reallyget women.
Let's start with Black womenand white women because
(34:40):
inherently, they're things thatwe just haven't dealt with in
our soul in this nation as itrelates to black people and
white people.
It's so deep, but we've got todo the dirty work and dig in
there and let's pull back thelayers, let's get to know each
other Because, at the end of theday, I believe, just like my
African brothers and sisters, Iam because you are.
(35:02):
You are because I am.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Right, right, you know, as we kind of come around
the corner, what would you say?
How can future leaderscultivate a culture of love and
justice, and what legacy do youhope to leave for the next
generation?
Speaker 3 (35:18):
You said what would I say to future leaders?
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Yeah, how to cultivate a culture of love and
justice.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Yeah, so what I really hope that future leaders
do.
We have a leadership academy,and it is my hope that we do.
The work of discovering this isso critical, coach Brown
discovering our ownlove-centeredness and our own
love consciousness that's wherethe work starts.
(35:48):
There are a lot of people outhere in pain.
There are a lot of people outhere hurting.
There are a lot of people outhere who do not know who they
are, but they're leading.
They're leading in pain,they're leading unwell.
They're leading in pain,they're leading unwell and
they're leading in anger.
They're leading inresentfulness, they're leading
in frustration.
They're leading in so manyemotions that do not serve us
(36:11):
well.
I'm hoping that people lean intolove and lean into light and,
from that space, start tostrategize and start to build
from there.
So the first thing I wantpeople to do is for us all to do
the work.
Every day.
I do work.
You know what work I'm workingon now?
I'm still working on dismantlingtriggers.
(36:32):
We honor triggers.
We'll tell people oh, hetriggered me.
Well, if he triggered you,guess what?
You need to dismantle thattrigger so that trigger no
longer has power in you or overyou.
So I've discovered I still havetriggers.
That's how somebody can pissyou off, because it's a trigger.
So if you have a trigger whereyou're still getting pissed off
(36:52):
and acting out of character andutilizing and acting in emotions
and spaces that don't serve youwell, do the work and we all do
the individual work of gettingto spaces.
But we can.
We put kids in timeout.
Take a timeout when you feelyourself about to get out of
(37:13):
character.
Take a timeout.
Take a timeout when you feelyour emotions about to say
something or do something thatcan hurt or harm people.
So I really want us to, asleaders, to start doing the work
so that we can lead well.
That's the first place.
I want us to start from leadingwell.
We can then build systems thatserve others well.
(37:33):
We can build companies thatserve others well.
We can start and we caninnovate.
Serve others well, we caninnovate.
You will innovate from a placethat does not harm humanity,
when you are a healed and wellhuman being.
So my calling in life is tohelp people discover the power
of their isness, calling peopleback to their true DNA of
(37:56):
love-centeredness and loveconsciousness.
That is what I am called to do.
If you can get people todiscover their true purpose.
The only reason why I wasn'tout there stripping as a young
woman is because I leaned intopart of my purpose at that time.
I leaned into something greater.
Something was calling me higher, and if we can just lean into
(38:17):
our isness, discover our light,lean into love and lead from
there, coach Brown, this worldwill be so much better when you
have leaders who lean into love.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
This is a legacy podcast, so you think about that
word legacy.
What does that word legacy meanto you and what do you hope to
leave for the next generation?
And what do you hope to leavefor the next?
Speaker 3 (38:39):
generation.
You know, for me, legacy isabout the work that speaks to,
speaks beyond you.
What work and impact have youdone that's going to speak
beyond you?
And so, for me, that work isthe work I'm doing right now
with the women.
Women are birthers.
(39:04):
We birth, if anybody you meetin this world.
They had to come through a woman, and my goal and my calling in
life starts with women.
Well, it may spill over toleaders.
Well, it may spill over to thespace I'm in now as a chief
operating officer.
My true space is to ensure thatI work with women and help them
discover their purpose, so thatthey can be the mothers, the
(39:25):
daughters, the leaders, the CEOs.
You know that they can be thosepeople who are out on the front
line helping to protest, thatthey're doing it from a space
and they know their power.
When women discover their power, I'm like Mrs King had this
quote.
She said women, if the soul ofthe nation is to be saved, I
believe you must become its soul, Because it's something about a
(39:48):
woman that walks in her powerand in her purpose.
I'm a wife and I even know thepower of pillow talk, and so
it's something about a womanwhen she knows her power and
purpose.
We've seen women who can teardown with their words and can
build up with their words.
It's something about a womanthat knows how to raise a child
(40:12):
and help them to walk in theirpurpose and their business.
It's something about a womanthat knows how to discover the
details of a thing so that shecan teach you how to be on the
offense when you are still onthe defense.
It's something about a womanwho leans into love and lean
into light, and it's my goal, mypurpose in this world to help
women discover that secret powerso that we can do our part to
(40:32):
make and move humanity forwardand make humanity better.
That's my legacy when you lookaround.
I hope that this book has causedwomen to love each other more,
work together well, I hope thatmy life will show that my
daughters are waking up intotheir isness, that when I've
gone into the jails and I'vegone into crack houses and
(40:54):
pulled women out, because I knowthat you're better than a crack
house, you're better than thispenitentiary, you're better than
a jail.
When women wake up to who theyare, they can do some incredible
things.
I worked for an institutionfounded by Coretta Scott King.
That's an incredible thing.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Amen.
Well, I want to thank you foryour time and for this great,
enlightening Learning more aboutyou and your work and just
excited for all you're doing and, most importantly, what you're
doing for the kingdom.
This is truly kingdom work,truly kingdom work for God's
kingdom, and God's kingdom andJesus is based on love.
His whole life is about love.
(41:34):
It's about love.
Can you share with the audiencehow they can get a copy of your
book?
Speaker 3 (41:40):
Oh, absolutely, dear White Woman, dear Black Woman,
you can find it on anywherebooks are sold.
You can get it at Amazon,barnes, noble Books, a Million.
You can also go to my website,bonita, hampton Smith, and you
can find all of my books there.
Well, both of my books.
My first book is not available.
My books there well, both of mybooks.
(42:02):
My first book is not available,but lindsey benzie, around the
world with friends, which isabout, uh, my children's book,
about children loving the skinthey're in, because I want to
make sure they know that.
Uh, coach brown.
And then, uh, dear white woman,dear black woman, also
available.
But anywhere books are sold,they can find my book I want to
thank you for your time.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
If I can just be real , I want to thank you for not
going in that strip club.
I just want to thank you forfor hearing the voice of the
Lord.
Hearing the voice of the Lord, Iknow God was speaking to you
then because he had greater workfor you, had a greater purpose
for you, and so I thank you forliving on purpose.
You know living on purpose andinspiring others.
So I'm just thank you for beinga part of the show today and,
(42:41):
for my audience, I want toencourage you to continue to
listen to Be A Baller podcast.
We share stories, persons whoare truly building a lifelong
legacy.
So thank you, bonita, for yourtime today.
Speaker 3 (42:52):
Thank you so much, coach Brown.
Thank you, and thank you forsharing the stories around the
world.
God bless you.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
If you've enjoyed this episode, please share it
with family and friends.
The Be A Baller podcast isavailable on all major podcast
platforms.
This podcast was created byCoach Tim Brown and recorded and
edited by the video productionclass of Worthington Christian
High School.
Be sure to come back next weekas we continue to discuss on how
(43:20):
to build a lifelong legacy.
Until then, don't forget to bea baller.
Welcome to Be A Baller where we're building a
lifelong legacy for our families, communities and the world.
Your host, coach Tim Brown, isexcited for you to join him on
this journey.
On each episode, we'll betalking about how to be
intentional about building alasting legacy.
We'll be exploring what itmeans to leave a mark that goes
(00:22):
beyond just our lives but has apositive impact on those around
us and even generations to come.
So if you're looking forinspiration, guidance and
practical tips on how to build alasting legacy that makes a
difference, then you're in theright place.
So grab your earbuds, getcomfortable and let's dive in.
It's time to be a baller.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Welcome to Be, a Baller podcast where we're
building a lifelong legacy,where we dive in the journeys of
individuals who are not justachieving success but are
intentionally crafting legaciesthat inspire and uplift.
I'm your host, coach Tim Brown,and today I'm honored to be
speaking with Benita Smith, avisionary leader whose work is a
testimony of the power oflove-led leadership and racial
(01:08):
healing.
Over two decades of experiencein leadership development,
spiritual formation andtransformational coaching,
benita has dedicated her life tohelping others rise to the
highest and most liberated selfNot just anybody, but liberated
setting people free and what ablessing that is.
She's also the chief operatingofficer of the Martin Luther
(01:28):
King Jr Center for NonviolentViolence Change.
Bernita's work is more thanjust a profession.
It's a divine assignment.
Her unwavering commitment toservice, empowerment and healing
has made her a beacon of lightfor navigating purpose and
transformation.
So get ready to be inspired intoday's conversation, learn how
Bernita is building a legacythat will resonate for
(01:49):
generations to come.
Bernita, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Thank you.
Thank you, do they call youCoach Brown?
Yeah, coach.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Brown is fine.
Yeah, people don't even know myreal name, but it's Tim Brown.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
I know it's Tim Brown , but I was reading about you, I
saw Coach Brown.
I know it's Tim Brown, but Iwas reading about you I saw.
Coach Brown so thank you,that's me.
I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yeah, I know you're a Southern girl and you're raised
in Mariana, Arkansas.
Big old metropolis, Big oldtown.
I saw it with everything Allthe fancy restaurants, big
hotels and all that Big old twored lights.
I also know that you grew up ina big family in the South.
(02:30):
Can you talk about growing upin the South during those times
and how the village raised you?
Speaker 3 (02:37):
You know, mariana, at the time I didn't know it was
small, I just knew it was home.
I didn't know we were thesecond poorest county in the
nation.
At the time I had no idea thatwe were considered an
impoverished county because thesoil and the people were so rich
(02:57):
.
We were rich in love and ourfamilies were connected.
You know, have you everunderstood what people talk
about when they talk aboutinterrelatedness and
interconnectedness?
That's growing up in Mariana,arkansas.
And while there were twodifferent high schools when I
was growing up, one for whitepeople who had substance, money
(03:19):
and what have you?
The white people and the blackpeople that attended the schools
that I went to.
We were just children gettingalong.
We were just children learningto play together and get along.
And yes, my mother had 10children.
(03:42):
We had a total of 13.
My oldest brother, john.
He died as a child.
And then my brother, henry, whowas a paraplegic.
He died in his teen years, andso we were raised in a three
bedroom home with all thosechildren.
So can you imagine growing upsharing twin beds, not even
knowing that that was a normal,because to us we were just
(04:03):
family, and I am most grateful,coach Brown, that I grew up in
those rooms with my sisters andbrothers, because at this phase
in my life my family iseverything, absolutely
everything.
I'll tell you something elseabout Mariana.
You know part of my work youtalked about the King Center is
sharing people, sharing withpeople the vision of the beloved
(04:24):
community.
Well, when you think aboutgrowing up in Mariana, if you
didn't have Tim, guess what?
If we had it, you can have it.
We had this neighbor, missAgnes, miss Agnes, which is
called my mother.
Let her know I'm going in yourhouse, bernice.
I need a chicken, and so shewould.
(04:45):
Whatever she needed.
Or if my mother needed a cup ofsugar, she'd send me over to Ms
Shoemake's house.
And that's how we live.
We shared groceries, we sharedchildren, we just we grew up as
family, and I'll share this lastthing because it'll frame some
of our latter discussion.
The one thing that I was notaware of was the blue and black
(05:09):
relationships in America,because in our town police
officers, my brother Terry,would get in trouble.
He would go to jail in Mariana,arkansas.
He would come home forlunchtime and eat with us, then
go back to the jailhouse, or wewould go up there.
He's outside doing stuff.
And I remember I had a ticketthat I hadn't paid for and one
(05:34):
of the police officers said butyou need to go down there and
take care of that ticket.
So I would call my sister, saySharon, they have a ticket on me
, can you pull it?
And so that was my life withpolice officers.
The last story I share isSheriff Holmes.
He lived down the street fromus and one day my brother
decided he wanted to grow someweed.
The sheriff came down, saidBernie boy out there growing
(05:57):
weed.
He didn't go to jail, my motherjust had to get the weed up,
you know.
And so I was not conscious ofwhat was happening in the rest
of the world with my Blacksisters and brothers, because of
how we grew up in MarianaArkansas.
So that's a little bit about mychildhood, I know it sounds
(06:17):
like Andy Griffin, doesn't it?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Yeah, y'all can do a television series.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
We really really could.
Could you know, I'll tell youthis, my mother, she passed of
cancer and this is just anindicator of how we grew up.
When my mother came here toatlanta to live with us when she
was dying of cancer, uh, uh,pam golet mother, you know, pam
goette, her mother sent mymother some greens from her
(06:46):
garden through FedEx because mymother wanted some greens.
She said I want some greensgrown from the garden.
And Regina Stone, my mother'sfriend, told her I tell you what
, bernice, you ought to getthose greens.
And the next couple of daysthose greens were coming to the
door through FedEx, not throughProger, not through Publix, but
through FedEx from the groundsof Mariana Arkansas.
(07:10):
So, that's just how we grew up.
Those are the people we grew uparound.
If I got out of, got out of youknow, if I was in trouble and I
was acting up, they hadpermission to spank my behind,
you know.
And so that's, that's how wegrew up, and I'm so grateful for
it now.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Amen, you know the word is.
You were very active in highschool and school, involved in
sports, drama club, studentcouncil and all kinds of things.
How did these experiences helpyou develop your leadership
style today and the life lessonsyou learned from those
experiences?
Speaker 3 (07:47):
You know, I was active, I ran track, I was young
, I was a cheerleader, I wasvery active, I loved volleyball.
I tell you, the sports that hadthe most influence on me,
though, was basketball.
I handled the ball, I was pointguard, I was very good
offensively, and most of mystrategies of life are offensive
(08:09):
.
I believe in offensivestrategies because I think
defense will tire you out, andyou don't win a game if you
don't have an offensive strategy.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
You got to get some points on the board.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
You got to get some points on the board.
You got to get some points onthe board, and so I think that's
part of my life strategy is tomake sure I'm strong on the
offense so that I don't have toconstantly react to things you
know, and so you study yourweaknesses, you study the things
(08:39):
that you know that you need todismantle, to improve so that
you can become a better person.
To improve so that you canbecome a better person.
That's a strong offensivestrategy.
So when things start to come atyou, you've already dealt with
your stuff you know, and sostrengthening your offense is
key in life for me, and so Ithink basketball has played the
is my life lesson.
(09:00):
I'll say that that's why Ilearned my life lesson is
handling the ball, gettingpoints on the board, studying
your partners, or you'restudying your partners, studying
the people you work with.
When you study people andunderstand how they navigate,
you can also come up with youroffensive strategies in life,
whether you're going into aboard meeting or you have a
(09:22):
collaboration dealing withpartners, partners, even in a
marriage, you need to stay onthe offense.
In a marriage, you, youunderstand your partner so you
can create offensive strategies,you know wow, that's powerful
there, because no team.
You gotta have a good pointguard you gotta have a good
point guard and you, you alsohave to always be conscious of
(09:46):
the other player's game, youknow and so when you study it.
I used to have this uh, we hadthis turtle in our house, uh,
and the poor little turtle wasjust dying.
We had him on rocks and and hewas dying.
So we went to the pet store andwe were like what's happening?
We don't know what to do withthis turtle.
And the gentleman the pet storesaid, well, it's an what's
happening, we don't know what todo with this turtle.
And the gentleman at the petstore said, well, it's an
aquatic turtle.
(10:07):
And so we did not have theturtle in water, we had him on
all these little rocks and stuff.
So when we put the turtle inwater, the turtle started to
thrive.
So my whole, what I took awayfrom that whole ordeal, is this
when you know the animal, youknow how to deal with this.
When you know the animal, youknow how to deal with it.
When you know the animal, youknow how to deal with it.
(10:30):
So it's very important that youstudy the people that you work
with, study the people youengage with, do a lot of
information gathering, educateyourself so that you know how to
navigate offensive strategies.
That's it.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
That's it.
Well, you can be a coach.
The way you're talking, Jackyou can go back and sit on the
sideline and coach up somebody'steam.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
I coach in a different way, you know.
I coach in a different way.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Amen, amen.
You also know that you are,that you are a strong woman of
faith.
Can you talk about your faithjourney?
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Yeah, you know.
So my faith journey is alsorooted in my upbringing.
So while I was very popular, asyou said, I was popular, I was
very good in school, but therewas this thing that was not
connecting for me.
And in my reflection as anadult, one thing I realized is
(11:26):
that I just couldn't ever seemyself.
I could never see myself asmuch as our parents try to give
us.
If parents don't give thechildren a gift of purpose you
know, and help childrenunderstand who they are, they
can find themselves later on inlife lost.
And so I was a soul just kindof lost for a while.
(11:48):
And I remember when I came hereto, I transferred from Arkansas
State to go to Clark Atlantaand my father died.
I was trying to find money tostay in school and I went to the
financial aid office and thelady just did not help me at all
and I was just lost.
It took me.
(12:09):
It was a journey completingschool as an adult.
I didn't finish until later on.
Because of that I was just lostand trying to find myself.
I remember sitting on the hillat Park Atlanta University and
trying to figure out what I wasgoing to do, and now I haven't
ever shared this story withanyone.
(12:29):
So this is hot off the pressfor you.
And I decided I was going to bevulnerable and share it.
When I didn't know what to do,my friend, I had one friend at
Clark and we decided we weregoing to go strip to make some
money and I didn't have the gutsto go first.
So Crystal said I'll go first,benita, and Crystal went first.
(12:51):
And when Crystal came back Isaid how was it?
Crystal told me that she saidwell, I had to drink until I
couldn't feel anything.
Now, coach Brown, I don't knowwhat it was, but something
inside of me said oh, you got todetach from your soul to do
this.
It wasn't in those words, but Icould feel that, you know, and
(13:14):
that was the reason why it tookme a longer journey, because I
knew I could not go strip.
I just could not.
So, as life would have it, Iwould meet this lady, lorraine
Daniels, who introduced me toprison ministry, and I started
to volunteer in church andactually gave my life to Christ
and started working in prisonministry.
(13:35):
Prison ministry led me tounderstand that I really, really
wanted to dedicate my time toserve women who were
incarcerated.
I went on to become licensed inministry and become the first
female chaplain in DeKalb CountyJail.
So I spent a lot of my lifehelping other women discover
(13:55):
their business, because I knowwhat it's like to fumble in the
dark for so long.
I know what it's like to almostchoose the wrong pathway
because to this day I do notknow where Crystal is.
I don't know where she is.
I remember she started to dosome other things.
I don't know where she landed,but I do know that was a
critical, defining moment in mylife that had I chosen to go
(14:19):
that route, I don't know where Iwould be today that.
My mother taught me about Godat an early age.
You know they we had to go tochurch.
If you stayed out all nightskating, you still had to get up
and go to church on Sunday.
So I'm so grateful for thatfoundation because that had to
be the thing that grounded me inthat moment.
You know what I mean.
(14:40):
That had to be the thing to sayyou know what, benita, you
can't go do that.
You can't drink till you can'thear your, your, your voice,
your, your inner voice and, um,so, yeah, uh, that's my journey
of getting to this space.
I've never shared this story,you know, but I said to myself
you know what?
Uh, it's time to let peopleknow what it's like to fumble in
(15:04):
the dark and find your way.
They don't have to see all thepretty pictures Sometimes.
They need to know how did youget there?
And it wasn't an easy journey.
I will tell nobody that it wasnot an easy journey finding my
way, but I am so grateful forChrist, I'm so grateful that I
(15:25):
found God.
I'm so grateful for that littlechurch in Poplar called Poplar
Springs, where one day I had onthis red and white dress.
I had probably clubbed myselfto death, but I went there, I
had on this red and white dressand I heard this man preaching
and I went to that altar cryingand I knew whatever he was
talking about.
I needed just that.
(15:46):
I need this thing that you'retalking about.
If this thing can cause me toturn my life around.
I need it.
If this thing can cause me tostop hurting.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
I need it.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
If this thing can cause me to see myself, I need
it.
And when I tell you I could notsee myself until I found God, I
could not see myself until Ifound God and allowed the Holy
Spirit to guide and lead my life.
So that's my journey.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
You know, as you were sharing, I always sometimes
share with persons how peoplesee our glory, but they don't
know the story.
It's one.
And then, as you were sharing,I was thinking.
The Bible says there's one manplants, the seeds was planted,
and then the other young ladywatered it.
That church, that little church, watered it and God gets the
increase.
That's how it works.
(16:36):
So seeds were planted, somebodycame along and watered it, and
then God is also rain.
Look at God.
That's all I can say.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Look, look, look at God.
And there were a lot of seedsalong the way.
I remember, see, when I was achild and I was at this church,
my mother, we, like I said, wealways had to go to church.
And Miss Mary Brown said oneday she doesn't realize this I
was just walking and she said,bernice, it's something special
(17:05):
about that little girl rightthere.
Oh, that was a seed, because Iremember that I don't know what,
I just knew Miss Mary said thatwas something special about
that little girl.
And I think adults should knowthat words are so powerful,
words are so powerful sown inthe soul of a child.
And so I just want, if we takeaway nothing else, coach Brown,
(17:26):
I hope that we understand thesoul of a child.
And so I just want, if we takeaway nothing else, coach Brown,
I hope that we understand thepower of our words and how they
frame identities and how theycan either tear a child up or
build a child up.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
You know you're known for that infectious laughter
and I can see that now and thenyou also.
You know your life's work isdeeply rooted in love-led
leadership and spiritualformation.
Can you share some more ofthose spiritual I mean pivotal
moments or experience thatignited that passion in you?
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Well, in all transparency, the love
leadership is rooted in myevolution of really studying Dr
King.
So, as the chief operatingofficer of the King Center, one
of the things that we had tolearn was we had to study Dr
King, but we also had to startto study nonviolence.
(18:21):
And as a Baptist trained androoted in Baptist traditions and
religion, I never really leanedinto studying other religions
other than what was required ofme in Bible college.
But Dr King had this way ofstudying other philosophers,
(18:42):
other theologians andsynthesizing truths, and so that
was very powerful for me.
And then understandingnonviolence as a love-centered
way of thinking, a love-centeredway of acting, a love-centered
way of speaking and engaging,when you start to look at love
(19:02):
as a structure and a strategyfor life, that was very, very
powerful for me.
To see a whole movement thatwas rooted in love and had the
power to transform a system, hadthe power to dismantle an
unjust system and cause peopleto shift, that's some power.
So you take the power that youknow in your foundation of
(19:24):
understanding who God is, andthen you start to understand
that love can be a strategy,love can be a construct that can
begin to dismantle unjustsystems.
And when you start to thinkabout things through the lens of
love, like, let's just take,for instance, you say you want
to go into Mariana and you wantto transform Mariana.
Well, you can go in there,bulldoze and start tearing
(19:46):
things down, but you could alsogo in with the lens of love and
begin to understand the people,listen to the people.
That's what love does.
Love goes into a situation andseeks no harm.
Love goes into a situation andseeks to understand.
Love goes to seek how can weall come together, build
together, grow together?
Love as a strategy goes in andconsiders all things and ensures
(20:11):
no harm is done.
And so when I started to studynonviolence and understand, if I
think, speak, act and engage ina way that's love-centered, how
powerful can that be?
How powerful can it be whenleaders start to lead and lead
in a way where they're thinkingfrom a love centered place,
acting from a love centeredplace, engaging from a love
(20:32):
centered place.
So I would say my faithfoundation compiled with that
which I learned throughnonviolence.
And I will also add anotherlayer of my teachings of Joe
Dispenza's teaching, some JoeDispenza's teaching.
Have you ever studied JoeDispenza and understand the
scientific basis of how we thinkand understand scientifically
(20:54):
how you can truly, truly rewireyour brain, and so those three
are the foundation to how I gotto this space of understanding.
Using love as a strategy can bethe most powerful
transformative force that we canimagine.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
You know, speaking of that, you often describe
leaders as chief energy officers.
Can you elaborate on how aleader's energy influences
organization, organizationalculture and success?
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Absolutely.
You know I'm going to use Ialways use my brother, who was a
quadriplegic.
My brother broke his neck andso, no matter what signals he
sent to the rest of his body, itjust didn't work because he was
paralyzed.
So the first thing I wantedleaders to understand that it's
(21:48):
so important to protect yourneck.
The neck are the leaders thatare right.
You know, your C-suiteexecutives, your senior leaders.
It's important to make surethat you're protecting that neck
because if that neck everdisconnects from your vision,
the rest of your body isparalyzed.
That means the rest of yourorganization is shot, the rest
of your church is gone.
(22:09):
Whatever body, a group ofpeople you're trying to lead, if
you're disconnected from yourcenter leadership and they no
longer can see your visionbecause I don't know how you've
been treating them, I don't knowwhat you've been saying and I
don't know what you've beendoing, but if you've caused a
disconnection from your C-suite,your senior leaders, the rest
of your body is gone.
(22:30):
And my brother, as he laidthere, he was a great thinker,
he could tell jokes, he couldwant his hands to move, but they
did not move because he wasdetached from his neck.
The other thing I want leadersto understand.
The reason why I call themchief energy officers is because
the atmosphere you create, howyou speak, how you treat people,
(22:53):
how you lead, you're going tosee that permeate throughout
your entire culture.
If you believe great things canhappen in your organization,
that you have a team of greatleaders who can do wonderful
things, who are extraordinary intheir own right and you are
lifting them up, you're going tosee that thing contagious in
the atmosphere.
But if you are a leader thatshoots down, tears down and
(23:16):
always down, I guarantee youyou're going to see threads of
that in the atmosphere, in theculture, and you're going to see
a lot of unproductive peopleand probably a lot of turnover.
Because, guess what?
People don't leaveorganizations, they leave people
.
They don't leave organizations,they leave because, guess what,
coach Brown, you suck, you suckand I got to go.
(23:36):
And so it's so important.
The one thing that you cannottrick people with is your energy
.
Energy does not lie, it cannotlie, it just is.
And so it's so important forCEOs to understand that what
they put out there in theatmosphere, it's going to
(23:57):
transfer all the way down to theperson on the front line at the
receptions.
They're going to feel your vibe.
So they always talk about thetone at the top.
I call them chief energyofficers because they really do
set the tone at the top.
So that's where I get that from.
And my brother like I said, mybrother being a quadriplegic
(24:18):
really, really taught me avaluable lesson about staying
connected to your neck.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
That's a great analogy.
You didn't rename the C-suitethat's a great analogy.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
You didn't rename the c-suite, it's the neck.
Though think about it.
You go into a place and you gota lot of unhappy leaders.
They're unhappy with the chiefleader.
Uh, it's going to show up inthe way they treat people.
It would take a very aware, aleader within that whole neck
network to be able to get overhow they're being treated by,
(24:49):
you know, their CEO or by theirpresident, because if you're not
treating them well, it's hardfor them to muster up the energy
to be everything they need tobe.
While they can still be goodpeople in that C-suite, it's
still hard to deal with thatkind of energy when you have a
leader that just isn't kind, aleader that just does not treat
(25:10):
people well.
My girlfriend and I we'reworking on a workshop in my next
book is women leading well,because it's so important that
you leave from a healthy place.
It's so important that you haveyour own self-love, your own
self-awareness, because if youdon't love yourself, you're not
going to understand how to treatother people well, and so it's
(25:32):
important to be well in order tolead well.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Well, you're dropping so many gems on here.
We just really getting started.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Well, you're asking the questions and I appreciate
it because I am passionate aboutthis work, because, like I said
, I know what it's like tofumble in the dark and, if I
don't do anything else, I wantto wake people up to some of the
things that I've had to fumbleand learn.
If I had to fumble and learn,then let me turn the light on so
you don't have to fumble in thedark.
(26:02):
Oh Lord, yeah, why do we letother people repeat our mistakes
?
Just turn the light on for them.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Just turn the light on.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
My motto now, Coach Brown, is that I'm not opening
doors for anyone.
I'm taking the hinges off.
I'm making the doors fluid.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Take the hinges off.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Why should?
Speaker 2 (26:24):
the door even close on people.
Why?
Speaker 3 (26:25):
is this door of opportunity closing?
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Make it fluid.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Those who are supposed to come in should be
able to just go in.
Why?
Speaker 1 (26:31):
are we closing?
Speaker 3 (26:32):
doors, opening doors.
No, if you're in there, youhave the power to do it.
Take the hinges off, make itfluid, create an arch and let
them just flow in.
You know.
Boy you just answered so good.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
You got me stuttering here.
The way you flow, you know,with all your two decades of
experience.
As we talk about leadershipdevelopment, what are some of
those significant shifts youobserve in leadership paradigms,
especially concerning love andjustice?
Speaker 3 (27:05):
The main leadership shift.
Let me make sure I understandyour question again.
Say that one more because Iwant to make sure I'm answering
your question.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Well, from your experience in leadership
development, what are some ofthose significant shifts you've
observed in leadership,especially concerning love and
justice?
Speaker 3 (27:24):
I think the shift that I'm seeing now is
understanding that it is sopivotal for us to understand
root causes and dismantle fromthe root and when the more
leaders are patient enough to dothat work, because it's not the
pretty work, it's not theglorified work, but I'm seeing
(27:47):
that people are understandingthat things are still persisting
and we've got to do somethingdifferent.
And so I'm seeing in spacespeople are starting to say ask
the right questions.
And once you start asking theright questions, you can get to
root causes.
The only way you can change ortransform systems is to deal
(28:08):
with the root causes, and wespent a lot of time and I'm
going to say this on yourpodcast, so I hope you don't get
in trouble for it but one ofthe things I've been saying
lately is that we've beendealing with diversity, equity
and inclusion when the rootcause is not having a love
conscious leadership, becausediversity, equity, inclusion are
(28:31):
outcomes.
They're outcomes of systemsthat are driven and structured
in love and a love consciousness.
When you have loveconsciousness in dealing with
your systems, guess what?
They're going to be inclusive,they're going to be diverse,
they're going to be equitable,they're going to be all the
things that looks like and feelslike a belonging culture,
(28:53):
because you're a love center.
So if you are constantlydealing with outcomes that
you're trying to deal with anddismantle, that's not the
problem.
You have to get to the rootcauses.
And so I think the shifts thatI'm seeing are people beginning
to ask the right questions,because that'll get us to
understand now how do we reallytransform this system.
(29:13):
And so it's starting to edgethere and I'm hoping to see more
of it.
It's the intentionality of mywork, because I absolutely
believe, if we start to shift,love is not a weak word.
People think love is a weakword.
It's one of the most powerfulforces.
You know, I think Gandhi calledit Satyagraha, soul's force.
(29:34):
It's a soul force.
It's a force that is sopowerful.
It's the only force that candismantle hate and darkness, and
so we've got to utilize it as astrength, as a strategy and as
a structure to begin to buildsystems and programs and things
that work for society as a whole.
So that's the shift that I'mseeing are people asking the
(29:57):
right questions now, becausethey see that you know what.
This thing that we're dealingwith now is so huge that we've
got to study, we've got tounderstand what's really
happening in culture, climateand politics and in our national
leadership.
We've got to begin to reallyget to the root causes.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
That's good you know you've written several books.
What was the vision behind?
I'm really excited about yourlatest book.
What was the vision behind yourlatest book, dear White Women,
dear Black Women, where youbrought together 56 women to
share their truths?
What role do you feel thatstorytelling plays in that?
Speaker 3 (30:37):
So I'll answer the first question first, which is
the vision behind it?
Like most people after thekilling of George Floyd, I was.
You know, we've seen, we hadseen a lot.
It wasn't the first time we hadheard or seen of a black person
being brutalized or killed atthe hands of a police officer,
(31:00):
but 2020, we were all shelteringin place and we were frozen in
time, and so it was somethingabout the stillness of that
tragedy happening in thestillness and the quietness of
the pandemic, and that everybodywas watching.
And I think anything that youwere dealing with or it just it
just started to bring it to thesurface, that you were dealing
(31:22):
with, or it just it just startedto bring it to the surface,
anything that you had deeplyrooted regarding racism,
regarding white supremacy,regarding, uh, the divides in
our country, it just came to apulsating head, you know.
And so I was angry, I washurting, I was angry, I was mad,
but none of those emotions weregoing to serve me well, and so
(31:43):
I went into prayer and I telleverybody I was not so smart, or
I am not so smart that I cameup with this on my own.
It literally was given to me inprayer.
I mean the whole strategy wasgiven to me in prayer and
meditation Literally get whitewomen to write letters to black
women, black women to writeletters to white women, so that
(32:03):
we can start to tell our truthsand we can start to get to the
root causes.
If you would deal with the rootcauses of the matter and so
that was my why, that's how Igot there and that's why I it's
so that we can start to dealwith our root causes.
Storytelling, just like I'mtelling you stories today, allow
(32:27):
us to see each other.
The more you see me and get toknow me, you look past all the
surface things and you say, oh,this is who Bonita is, oh, this
is who Tim is.
We start to understand ourinterconnectedness, our common
humanity threads, and that'swhere we can discover how can we
(32:47):
work together.
And my goal in thisstorytelling is to get women to
start to work together well inour truths and being healed.
I was reading one of theletters I read them periodically
.
I've read the book a few times,but read them periodically and
this one white woman.
She talked about how she haddone all these things.
(33:09):
She raised black children, shewould work for defects.
She did all these things andshe wanted to be black, she said
.
Until I understood what blackpeople were really dealing with,
then I realized it was scary.
And she said so I no longerwanted to be black.
But in the core she thought shewas so liberated that she
thought she understood, untilGeorge Floyd she didn't realize
(33:33):
that she thought she was betterthan black people.
She said I didn't realize thatI was racist, I didn't realize I
had my own prejudice.
And she penned this so thatother Black women can hear her
story.
And I was just.
I'm touched to know thatsomeone is willing to get in
touch with their own stuff,willing to put it out there and
(33:55):
say this is where I am, but I'mcommitted to being better, and
that's what this is all about.
This is where I am, but I'mcommitted to being better.
And that's what this is allabout.
Women telling their stories,getting to our collective
healing individual healing first, collective healing.
And then how do we worktogether well and leave this
world better for our children?
Because that's what it's allabout.
(34:19):
How do we do something betterso that the next generation they
don't have this layer to dealwith?
Our parents did that for us.
So what do we do for thisgeneration?
So that you know what we'vedismantled this so you all can
go to the next level.
So that was my goal to reallyget women.
Let's start with Black womenand white women because
(34:40):
inherently, they're things thatwe just haven't dealt with in
our soul in this nation as itrelates to black people and
white people.
It's so deep, but we've got todo the dirty work and dig in
there and let's pull back thelayers, let's get to know each
other Because, at the end of theday, I believe, just like my
African brothers and sisters, Iam because you are.
(35:02):
You are because I am.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Right, right, you know, as we kind of come around
the corner, what would you say?
How can future leaderscultivate a culture of love and
justice, and what legacy do youhope to leave for the next
generation?
Speaker 3 (35:18):
You said what would I say to future leaders?
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Yeah, how to cultivate a culture of love and
justice.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Yeah, so what I really hope that future leaders
do.
We have a leadership academy,and it is my hope that we do.
The work of discovering this isso critical, coach Brown
discovering our ownlove-centeredness and our own
love consciousness that's wherethe work starts.
(35:48):
There are a lot of people outhere in pain.
There are a lot of people outhere hurting.
There are a lot of people outhere who do not know who they
are, but they're leading.
They're leading in pain,they're leading unwell.
They're leading in pain,they're leading unwell and
they're leading in anger.
They're leading inresentfulness, they're leading
in frustration.
They're leading in so manyemotions that do not serve us
(36:11):
well.
I'm hoping that people lean intolove and lean into light and,
from that space, start tostrategize and start to build
from there.
So the first thing I wantpeople to do is for us all to do
the work.
Every day.
I do work.
You know what work I'm workingon now?
I'm still working on dismantlingtriggers.
(36:32):
We honor triggers.
We'll tell people oh, hetriggered me.
Well, if he triggered you,guess what?
You need to dismantle thattrigger so that trigger no
longer has power in you or overyou.
So I've discovered I still havetriggers.
That's how somebody can pissyou off, because it's a trigger.
So if you have a trigger whereyou're still getting pissed off
(36:52):
and acting out of character andutilizing and acting in emotions
and spaces that don't serve youwell, do the work and we all do
the individual work of gettingto spaces.
But we can.
We put kids in timeout.
Take a timeout when you feelyourself about to get out of
(37:13):
character.
Take a timeout.
Take a timeout when you feelyour emotions about to say
something or do something thatcan hurt or harm people.
So I really want us to, asleaders, to start doing the work
so that we can lead well.
That's the first place.
I want us to start from leadingwell.
We can then build systems thatserve others well.
(37:33):
We can build companies thatserve others well.
We can start and we caninnovate.
Serve others well, we caninnovate.
You will innovate from a placethat does not harm humanity,
when you are a healed and wellhuman being.
So my calling in life is tohelp people discover the power
of their isness, calling peopleback to their true DNA of
(37:56):
love-centeredness and loveconsciousness.
That is what I am called to do.
If you can get people todiscover their true purpose.
The only reason why I wasn'tout there stripping as a young
woman is because I leaned intopart of my purpose at that time.
I leaned into something greater.
Something was calling me higher, and if we can just lean into
(38:17):
our isness, discover our light,lean into love and lead from
there, coach Brown, this worldwill be so much better when you
have leaders who lean into love.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
This is a legacy podcast, so you think about that
word legacy.
What does that word legacy meanto you and what do you hope to
leave for the next generation?
And what do you hope to leavefor the next?
Speaker 3 (38:39):
generation.
You know, for me, legacy isabout the work that speaks to,
speaks beyond you.
What work and impact have youdone that's going to speak
beyond you?
And so, for me, that work isthe work I'm doing right now
with the women.
Women are birthers.
(39:04):
We birth, if anybody you meetin this world.
They had to come through a woman, and my goal and my calling in
life starts with women.
Well, it may spill over toleaders.
Well, it may spill over to thespace I'm in now as a chief
operating officer.
My true space is to ensure thatI work with women and help them
discover their purpose, so thatthey can be the mothers, the
(39:25):
daughters, the leaders, the CEOs.
You know that they can be thosepeople who are out on the front
line helping to protest, thatthey're doing it from a space
and they know their power.
When women discover their power, I'm like Mrs King had this
quote.
She said women, if the soul ofthe nation is to be saved, I
believe you must become its soul, Because it's something about a
(39:48):
woman that walks in her powerand in her purpose.
I'm a wife and I even know thepower of pillow talk, and so
it's something about a womanwhen she knows her power and
purpose.
We've seen women who can teardown with their words and can
build up with their words.
It's something about a womanthat knows how to raise a child
(40:12):
and help them to walk in theirpurpose and their business.
It's something about a womanthat knows how to discover the
details of a thing so that shecan teach you how to be on the
offense when you are still onthe defense.
It's something about a womanwho leans into love and lean
into light, and it's my goal, mypurpose in this world to help
women discover that secret powerso that we can do our part to
(40:32):
make and move humanity forwardand make humanity better.
That's my legacy when you lookaround.
I hope that this book has causedwomen to love each other more,
work together well, I hope thatmy life will show that my
daughters are waking up intotheir isness, that when I've
gone into the jails and I'vegone into crack houses and
(40:54):
pulled women out, because I knowthat you're better than a crack
house, you're better than thispenitentiary, you're better than
a jail.
When women wake up to who theyare, they can do some incredible
things.
I worked for an institutionfounded by Coretta Scott King.
That's an incredible thing.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Amen.
Well, I want to thank you foryour time and for this great,
enlightening Learning more aboutyou and your work and just
excited for all you're doing and, most importantly, what you're
doing for the kingdom.
This is truly kingdom work,truly kingdom work for God's
kingdom, and God's kingdom andJesus is based on love.
His whole life is about love.
(41:34):
It's about love.
Can you share with the audiencehow they can get a copy of your
book?
Speaker 3 (41:40):
Oh, absolutely, dear White Woman, dear Black Woman,
you can find it on anywherebooks are sold.
You can get it at Amazon,barnes, noble Books, a Million.
You can also go to my website,bonita, hampton Smith, and you
can find all of my books there.
Well, both of my books.
My first book is not available.
My books there well, both of mybooks.
(42:02):
My first book is not available,but lindsey benzie, around the
world with friends, which isabout, uh, my children's book,
about children loving the skinthey're in, because I want to
make sure they know that.
Uh, coach brown.
And then, uh, dear white woman,dear black woman, also
available.
But anywhere books are sold,they can find my book I want to
thank you for your time.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
If I can just be real , I want to thank you for not
going in that strip club.
I just want to thank you forfor hearing the voice of the
Lord.
Hearing the voice of the Lord, Iknow God was speaking to you
then because he had greater workfor you, had a greater purpose
for you, and so I thank you forliving on purpose.
You know living on purpose andinspiring others.
So I'm just thank you for beinga part of the show today and,
(42:41):
for my audience, I want toencourage you to continue to
listen to Be A Baller podcast.
We share stories, persons whoare truly building a lifelong
legacy.
So thank you, bonita, for yourtime today.
Speaker 3 (42:52):
Thank you so much, coach Brown.
Thank you, and thank you forsharing the stories around the
world.
God bless you.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
If you've enjoyed this episode, please share it
with family and friends.
The Be A Baller podcast isavailable on all major podcast
platforms.
This podcast was created byCoach Tim Brown and recorded and
edited by the video productionclass of Worthington Christian
High School.
Be sure to come back next weekas we continue to discuss on how
(43:20):
to build a lifelong legacy.
Until then, don't forget to bea baller.
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