March 20, 2024 • 28 mins
When Joe Leonard swapped his corporate cap for a coach's whistle, he also mapped out a game plan for real estate success, one that allowed him to retire at the tender age of 51. Our latest conversation takes you through the courts of property investment, as Joe shares the slam dunk strategies that transformed his financial game, proving that income replacement can be a more valuable play to financial freedom. It all started with a modest two-family home, but Joe's journey is anything but small – it's a testament to the power of smart, strategic investment moves.
Ever dreamt of sipping cocktails on a beach while your investments work for you? Welcome to the allure of passive note investing, a realm where distance from the physical property is no barrier to success. This episode peels back the curtain, revealing how I've tailored a retirement strategy that harmonizes real estate and notes. We'll volley between the principles of payment history, risk, reward, and the sweet spot of consistent cash flow in building a robust investment portfolio. Joe's narrative and my own insights create a playbook designed for those looking to step up their investment game without having to step out of their comfort zone.
Retirement isn't just about kicking back; it's a new season of life ripe with opportunities. This episode isn't just about closing deals; it's about opening doors to leisure, family, and community engagement. Joe Leonard shares how his post-retirement life is a rich blend of freedom and investment passion, from gym workouts to engaging with young athletes, imparting wisdom both on and off the court. His coaching doesn't stop at basketball; financial literacy is part of his lineup, too, emphasizing the importance of teaching the next generation valuable life skills including financial strategy. Join us for this heartening narrative that intertwines the satisfaction of mentoring with the thrill of building a future on your own terms.
Resources and links discussed:
- Videocast on our YouTube Channel
- ANB Funds Website - https://anbfunds.com
About the Host:
Justin Bogard – Note Investor specializing in performing Residential Real Estate Debt. He finds deals and acquires them for his own portfolio as well as educates investors while walking them through the process of owning a Real Estate Note!
Connect with the Host:
Facebook - bethebank
Twitter - bethebank1
Instagram - bethebankpodcast
American Note Buyers - https://anbfunds.com/
Monthly Broadcast - https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzc944w1xydt5aLDrrEPHJhdJeDkBjjD4
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Narrator (00:02):
Interested in real estate.
How about wealth?
Well, they go hand in hand, andhere you'll learn all about it.
Welcome to Be the Bank, apodcast where we discuss and
debate the topics centeredaround real estate investing.
Your host, Justin Bogart,shares insights into investing
in real estate to create realwealth and passive income for
(00:23):
you and your family.
He'll share stories of realestate investments done right,
Walk you through the process ofowning a real estate note and,
most importantly, educate you soyou can Be the Bank.
This is Be the Bank, brought toyou by American Note Buyers.
Now here's your host, JustinBogart.
Justin Bogard (00:46):
Hey, hey, listener, this is episode number
six of season six on the Be theBank broadcast brought to you
by American Note Buyers, andtoday it's going to be a little
bit different.
We actually have an investor ofours that's invested with us
for a while now and he's got acool story.
He's actually a high schoolbasketball coach and we're going
to talk a little bit about thatand kind of his adventures in
(01:09):
land loading and lean loading.
So Mr Joe Leonard will be on.
So stay tuned, hey Joe, that'sa Jimi Hendrix song.
(01:31):
Right, it starts off, hey Joe.
I think so.
So if I email or text anybodynamed Joe, that the first thing
comes to my head because my dadplays in a band and so he loves
the 60s and 50s and 70s musicand Hendrix is one of his
favorite artists because heplays guitar too.
Not let's name it right handed,but yes, I always think of that
(01:52):
.
Hey Joe, how are we doing?
I'm doing really well.
Unfortunately, it's kind ofgloomy here in the Fisher's
Indiana area where I'm currentlyat recording this, and I think
you're not too far from me,aren't you?
You know, Hio.
Joe Leonard (02:08):
Yeah, I'm in Akron Kent area, which is south of
Cleveland.
Justin Bogard (02:14):
Okay, so you, you basically help LeBron get to
the NBA, right.
Joe Leonard (02:19):
Right, I wish, I wish.
Justin Bogard (02:23):
Man, how long ago has he been the NBA?
For 20, 20 years.
Joe Leonard (02:27):
Yes, yes, so he was quite the high school player,
and he's done the same on thepro level.
Justin Bogard (02:34):
Have you ever run across him?
Joe Leonard (02:37):
I have not.
No, I mean, I've seen him playquite a few times, but never run
across him when he played forthe Cavaliers or like that
during high school stuff.
During the Cavalier days, highschool days.
Those were smaller venues andso they usually sold out, so you
usually couldn't get tickets.
Justin Bogard (02:57):
Probably two years in advance too.
Joe Leonard (02:59):
Yeah, it was crazy.
Justin Bogard (03:02):
I guess the audience doesn't realize, if
they don't already.
You coach high school women'sbasketball as your, as your
profession, right?
Joe Leonard (03:09):
Correct.
So I retired about about twoand a half years ago, and so my
my job right now is to coachhigh school varsity girls
basketball, and so that's mypassion.
The season just ended last week, and so so, yeah, you know I
spend most of my time onbasketball.
Justin Bogard (03:32):
I love basketball .
I thought I was decent at ituntil I got to try out to the
middle school team and then Irealized I wasn't that good at
playing basketball.
It was just in my mind, youknow, playing with my buddies,
you know, doing doing those noblood, no foul rules was always
fun.
But yeah, I never could playwith the others on the you know
a structured environment.
(03:52):
So I'm just a pickup guy.
Joe Leonard (03:55):
That's all right, I'll throw in that.
Justin Bogard (03:58):
What did you do before you retired?
Joe Leonard (04:02):
So my profession up until a few years ago, I was in
the corporate world of agrocery store, and so I used to
travel around as a regionalmanager of a local grocery store
in the Cleveland, columbus,youngstown area, and so, if
anyone knows anything aboutretail, retail is six days a
(04:22):
week, and even on the seventhday that you're off it's still
going to get called.
It's a tough way to make aliving.
Justin Bogard (04:30):
Oh man, I'm glad that you got out of that.
You don't seem like you're tooold, so did you retire early?
Joe Leonard (04:36):
I did.
I was 51.
And so it was kind of always agoal of mine as I was growing up
.
And so, as I went about myjourney with real estate, my
main goal wasn't you know, whatam I going to have in 20 years,
30 years?
It was how do I replace theincome that I'm currently, you
(04:57):
know, getting doing a job?
And so that's how I alwaysanalyze any deal or anything
that I thought I might want toget into.
Justin Bogard (05:04):
So so when did you start investing in real
estate?
Joe Leonard (05:10):
So, growing up, my dad, you know he had one or two,
I think he had one house thathe rented out, and so as a kid I
was always fascinated by that,and so he actually owned it
before I was born.
But you know, my brother and Iwould always ask him questions
about it, and we were just kindof always amazed that you could.
You know, he had a two familyhome, and I think him and my mom
lived upstairs or whatever.
(05:32):
They rented the other part out,and so my brother and I were
kind of fascinated by that, andso when it was our turn to buy
our first home, we both did that.
Four streets apart from eachother in the city of Cleveland.
I was a two family home.
This was like middle of the1990s and so I lived upstairs, I
rented the downstairs and thenI had a roommate at the time,
(05:53):
because I was pretty young atthe time, so you know.
So the payment at that time was, you know, the nineties was
like $400 a month was themortgage payment.
The guy downstairs was paying$600.
And the roommate was paying$300 plus half utilities.
And I'm like you know what?
There might be something tothis.
Justin Bogard (06:10):
So I like the numbers already.
Joe Leonard (06:12):
Yeah, it was pretty good.
So from there, you know, I justI lived there for about 10
years really allowed me to maxout on 401K and just kind of
save in any other fashion, andthen about 10 years later, I
bought another one and then thejourney just continued from
(06:35):
there.
I just continued to buy moreand more.
Justin Bogard (06:37):
So when did owning rentals become more of
like a part time job, since youhad a full time job at the time?
Joe Leonard (06:47):
So I got up to about 10 or 11 houses and I
would say about number five orsix.
It became, you know, it becameanother job.
So I always had a managementcompany.
So for me I was pretty busywith my work and so I really
couldn't afford to be dealingwith phone calls in the middle
(07:09):
of the night and all that otherstuff.
So I had a management companythat took care of a lot of it.
But you know, there's still theworry of of just owning a
rental property.
Justin Bogard (07:22):
Yeah, so you obviously have bought some loans
before, which is why you're onthe Be the Bank podcast today.
And so at what point did youdecide, or did you figure out,
that you kind of wanted toinvest in some notes as well?
Joe Leonard (07:37):
So I always thought the buy and hold real estate
would allow me to retire, and sowhat I quickly learned was that
wasn't going to be the case,and so I needed steady, reliable
income, and it just wasn'tgoing to happen.
The you know, I might get $500from this house one month and
then next month I get nothing,or then I get $200.
(07:58):
And so it was just too unstable.
And so I was at a real estate,one of those meetings in
downtown Cleveland, witheveryone gathered around, and so
, you know, a speaker showed upI'm not even sure who the
speaker was, but he wasdiscussing notes and I had never
heard about it and so he passedout a flyer.
I literally left middle of the,you know, he had an
(08:20):
intermission probably about anhour into it, and I grabbed the
paper and I said this guy, he'scrazy.
So I left, and so I went home,and the more I thought about it,
you know it had a too good tobe true kind of a feel about it
at first, and so I began torealize maybe it wasn't too good
to be true.
And so so I did as much researchas I could on performing notes
(08:43):
and you know all those things.
And then the Cleveland area atthat time there wasn't a note
convention or any type of groupthat met for notes.
I don't even know if there istoday, but so I traveled down to
Cincinnati and that's where Isaw you speak at that meeting
down there in Cincinnati.
And so when I sat through thatmeeting I just remembered when
(09:04):
you came up you just seemed likea straightforward, honest.
You didn't seem like you weretrying to sell the group
anything.
You know what I mean, you justkind of an educator of knowledge
.
And so I had a real good feelabout that.
And so shortly thereafter weexchanged numbers and I
purchased my first one from you.
Justin Bogard (09:25):
That's awesome.
Well, I must have been a verygood actor back then to convince
you that I wasn't trying tosell you.
Joe Leonard (09:31):
I'm just kidding.
I mean, I can remember being onthe phone and the first one we
bought was in Indiana and yousaid, joe, this is in my home
state, if anything goes wronghere, I'm not gonna disappear,
I'll be there for you.
And I said, all right, let's doit.
And so I remember being onvacation.
I got the first payment and Ithought, well, this is pretty
(09:52):
good.
So, you know, it's just kind ofjust kept building from there.
And so eventually I sold allthe rental properties that I had
and went all in.
After I went through COVID withthe notes that I had, and I
really did very well.
I was fortunate.
I thought, boy oh boy, I boughtall these notes.
And now here we go with COVID.
(10:13):
What is the dumbest idea everAfter COVID happened.
It was kind of a proof ofconcept If you can survive COVID
with the notes, then go for it.
So I sold every rental propertyI had.
I bought every single note thatI possibly could, and then
shortly thereafter, a coupleyears ago, I retired.
Justin Bogard (10:35):
That's awesome.
So collapsing your entirerental portfolio and converting
it into notes.
We had the same assumptionsgoing into COVID as well, with
our portfolio.
It was like, oh man, this, Idon't know how this is going to
turn out, but people kept payingand they kept paying and they
kept paying.
I'm like I'm not seeing anyperformance going the opposite
(10:55):
direction.
I'm seeing, if anything, itkeeps steady and people are
wanting to pay off early, and sowe had a great experience
during COVID as well, and evenafter the post COVID stuff as
well in our portfolio.
So what has been yourgeographic model with buying
notes versus rentals?
Because obviously with rentals,you've probably kept them close
(11:18):
to where you actually livethere in the Akron Cleveland
area, right, yes, and so withthe notes I bought the first few
from you, or I don't know.
Joe Leonard (11:29):
it's probably six or seven that I got from you,
and so a lot of those wereIndiana and your home state.
There At first I still had themindset of a landlord, so I was
trying to get them as close aspossible.
So I do have probably five orsix Ohio.
But then eventually, you know,you got to spread your wings and
so now I'm all over you know,or Alabama, arizona, oklahoma,
(11:55):
mississippi, florida, so it'spretty much just.
The beauty of notes is that youknow you can go all over.
I don't have any California, Idon't have any New York, I'm not
really sure why.
I just think I've heard enoughthat say don't do that.
So I just kind of stay away.
But really I like the Midwest.
(12:16):
But I'll always look at, youknow, the location really
doesn't bother me.
Justin Bogard (12:22):
Yeah, it's the same thing that I went through
when I got into the notesbusiness from being in what I
call traditional real estate,where everything was local to me
and I could see it and I couldtouch it and I could walk
through it.
And the first time we get anote you're just like, well,
it's not near me, like I don't,should I be doing this?
Like you're starting toquestion everything about it.
But then you know you step backand like it's just a passive
(12:42):
investment, like if I was goingto the stock market and just
picking something out, like it'snothing where I can see and
touch and feel.
It's like you're dependent onother things.
Obviously it's there's nosecurity with that different
apples to apples comparison, butapples to bananas comparison, I
guess.
But yeah, it's so, so different.
But then, like I like what yousaid, when you're on vacation,
you got that first check,because I was actually on
(13:04):
vacation when I bought my firstnote.
I was actually out of thecountry when I bought it and
there's just kind of a coolfeeling.
It's like I can be here,present, with my kids and my
family, and then also I can stepaside and do this transaction.
I can do it from anywhere inthe world and I don't have to be
there in front of property, Idon't have to be in front of a
title company to close, and itcan all just happen seamlessly.
(13:24):
And I have the same you knowrights and ownership as any
other bank.
It wouldn't be any different.
So it's just kind of a coolfeeling how this whole process
works in the note space and howit's just kind of it's more
seamless and streamlined thanwhat you think.
Joe Leonard (13:38):
Yeah, no, I would.
I would absolutely agree.
I have a few friends who arestill buy and hold and I think
they think it's cool to havephysical properties, like look
at all my properties and like,well, you could say what you
want.
But I remember when I was thelandlord, you know they would
move out every year or two andthen you got to put in money to
advertise to get a new tenant.
So then the cities in theCleveland area were getting so
(14:01):
tough on landlords that there'sno way I would want to go go
back to that.
In fact, when I buy notes now,I want performing notes.
I don't want to take over.
I've already been a landlord.
I don't want the property.
I don't want to get involved inthat.
That's not my, that's not mygoal.
So for me I look at paymenthistory, a solid payment history
(14:21):
.
If it's not solid, I don't carewhat the yield is, I'm not
interested.
Justin Bogard (14:26):
Yeah, that's a good way to analyze your deals
and I've always been that way aswell Is looking at the pay
history and not not reallylooking at the return.
Because the return versus thewhat you have in front of you
you know if you have a greatnote you're going to get a
little bit lower return.
But if you have a risky noteyou're going to get a little bit
higher return.
Right, because you expect that.
(14:46):
But oftentimes that riskiernote doesn't give you the higher
return because they keepmissing payments or it becomes a
foreclosure or maybe a dragdrag on foreclosure and it can
really slow down your deal.
When you're trying to get cashflow, when you're not worried
about cash flow and you're beingtransactional but you can wait
a year or two, then that youknow you anticipate non
performing to be part of yourportfolio.
(15:07):
But when you're, when you'restrictly trying to replace your
income, like you were trying todo, you definitely want to have
consistent payers, on timepayers and have that predictable
cash flow coming in.
And then obviously, once youbuild it up enough 10, 12, 20
loans then you can absorb someof those down times that come in
with those loans, because youknow there are things that
(15:27):
happen in the business with typeof loans that we buy.
We got payers that you knowsometimes they're living a
little little bit paycheck topaycheck and sometimes they
might have to pinch a fewpennies, you know, every month
and might be skipping a mortgagepayment you.
But they typically get caughtup and so once you have a big
enough portfolio, you justabsorb some of those bumps in
the road.
Joe Leonard (15:46):
Yeah, I know, I mean that's exactly.
I mean everyone goes in it fortheir own.
You know some people want totake the property over, some
people, like you said, you knowthey that yield is most
important to them.
For me, I didn't want to work,I wanted to do what I wanted to
do and steady income replacingmy income, plus giving me some
buffer so that I could buy andreplace the ones that fall off
(16:09):
every year because of payment orwhatever.
So so everybody has their ownstrategy is just finding what
your, what your strategy is, andI just think the no business is
definitely the way to go.
Justin Bogard (16:22):
Do you do any other investing with any more of
your retirement accountanywhere else, or is it mainly
just real estate and notes?
Joe Leonard (16:30):
Just real estate and notes.
That's pretty much for rightnow, that's that's.
You know, to my comfort levelis, and so you know, but I
always, I'm always lookingaround, but for right now that's
that's really what I, what Ifeel most comfortable with.
Justin Bogard (16:47):
What has been an experience in a note investing
since you've bought so manyloans that you kind of learned
some lessons about investing insome of these things that you'd
be like man I wish.
I wish I would have realizedthis sooner, or I wish I would
have avoided this type of noteor this, this red flag that I
really didn't see until it waslater in the pay history.
Joe Leonard (17:11):
That's a good question.
You know, I would say initiallyI was probably, you know, too
conservative and so I probablycould have, could have been
involved sooner.
You know, I think I think,especially doing that first deal
, you know, I wanted all, allbut guarantee that it was going
to be.
You know, payments were goingto be made.
(17:32):
So I think I dragged my feet,you know, for for way longer
than I probably should have.
You know, I really haven't.
There hasn't been too manysurprises.
I actually have my first note,that is, that is not paying and
it hasn't paid for a littlewhile.
So they're going down thatforeclosure road.
So this is new to me.
But when I look at that deal, Ithink I would still do that
(17:55):
again.
You know, just one of thosethings that just got to happen
as you get into the business.
Justin Bogard (18:01):
So yeah, the the law of averages or whatever you
want to call it's going to comeinto play.
When you have a portfolio bigenough, something's going to
happen to where one of them isgoing to go bad or not or not
pay.
It's hard to say that you'llhave a hundred percent perfect
payers on every single loan thatyou have every single 100% of
the time.
Right.
Joe Leonard (18:19):
Yeah, it would be nice if you did, but you know, I
mean even this one here I, ifthey could turn around and start
paying again tomorrow, I'd befine with that, you know, and we
could try to work something out.
But it this one just doesn'tlook like it's going to happen
Now.
It is within two hours of ofwhere I live.
I guess I'm lucky in thatregards, but you know.
(18:40):
But you know, what are yougoing to do?
As you say, once you start tobuild up enough there, you're
eventually going to run aprocess, and so this will be a
learning exchange experience forme as I run through it.
Justin Bogard (18:54):
What does your kind of day to day look like now
that you're retired?
You don't have the full timejob anymore.
You obviously you know you dothe basketball stuff now for the
local team there.
But obviously since theseason's over now and you have
built this wealth with yourportfolio you have of your notes
, do you spend a lot of timelike looking at other investing
opportunities?
(19:14):
Are you more relaxed and justdo other things that kind of
make you happy that you want todo?
Joe Leonard (19:20):
Yeah, I mean, I don't really do as much with the
investing as I probably should.
You know, obviously I check inon the notes a couple of times a
week just to get an idea there.
But really my time is my time,and so I go to the gym.
Probably, you know, five, sixdays a week I like to go see my
mother, who's in Cleveland.
Even though the season is over,for us it really is a 10 month
(19:45):
season, so it'll begin in 30days.
It'll start back up the monthof June and then last summer I
did a lot of volunteering, andso I spent a week in Maryland at
a basketball camp.
Just so I'm just living.
I'm doing things that I want todo.
You know, I'm playing in astaff against seniors basketball
(20:05):
game, and so we have practicetonight, and so, yeah, really
most of my time is just.
You know, myself and my fiancewe do a lot of traveling, and so
now that the season's over,that'll start.
But, yeah, more leisure than itis business.
Justin Bogard (20:24):
Let me ask some non-note questions here.
So did you play basketball inhigh school and college and
stuff?
Joe Leonard (20:31):
I mean I did in high school, but I was, I mean
I'm six, six now, but back inthose days I was only five, two,
so I did not play, did not growuntil college, so kind of one
of those lucky to be tall, but Icould have used it to go back
in the high school days.
So yeah, I mean I've always,I've always enjoyed doing that.
(20:55):
I've been coaching for probablyabout 10 years, 15 years now,
and it's really your passion.
They say, find your passion.
And if you can do that, youknow, then it's not really work.
And so I really enjoy that.
I enjoy the game, I enjoy justworking with the kids, so has
basketball always been yourfavorite sport.
(21:17):
It, has, it, has it's.
You know, even growing up, itwould be countless hours in the
driveway just enjoying gettingup shots.
And so you, being from Indiana,how about?
I'm sure it's a it's exactly it.
Justin Bogard (21:33):
Yeah, my dad, as soon as he could, he put a pole
in the driveway with concretearound in a basketball hoop and
we were just out there playingdad versus son like all the time
.
I never could beat the old manhook shot that he had it was.
It was a game killer for me.
Joe Leonard (21:48):
I just no matter what they climb on his back,
whatever, it still would go in,yeah that's good and you know,
one of the things now is I canyou know I share stories with
with my players about.
You know they always ask me youknow how are you so young and
retired?
And so it allows me to kind ofeducate them on, you know, only
money but, but whatever else,and so you kind of you kind of
(22:11):
build a rapport with the kidsabout that, and so they're
certainly inquisitive, you know,about why I can attend practice
at 10 o'clock in the morningwhen they're off for a day, and
why I could be there at 6 am fora shoot around if they want.
So so yeah, so not only youknow, I try to help them out and
and and let them know maybesome secrets, that or some
(22:31):
things that I've learned.
Justin Bogard (22:34):
That's awesome, to pay it forward, I wish people
would have came to my highschool and kind of taught more
of the of the realisticfinancial life, of what it is to
be an adult.
Because you know when,everything that I was taught
before I really got and learnedabout real estate was, you know,
you just take your paycheck andyou put so much aside and you
keep it in a savings account oryou keep forcing it into your
(22:56):
401k and let someone else manageyour money, and little did I
know that you could actuallyinvest in these things and you
don't have to use those standardways of of investing, because
to me it was almost like abrainwash thing to where I was
told this is like the only thingyou do, like, oh here, you just
need to do this, without reallygiving you options.
So yeah, nice to hear thatyou're able to pass that on to
(23:18):
your kid, to your, not your kids.
I meant your, your playing,your playing kids, right?
Joe Leonard (23:23):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
You know, and some of them someof them are interested and some
of them aren't but you know,you always get the ones that say
I want to be rich someday and Isaid, well, why don't we talk
about that?
You know what does that, whatdoes that mean and how are you
going to go about that?
So, so, yeah, I think I thinkthey're apt to listen to you
when they know that you'veactually you know you achieved
(23:45):
some financial freedom.
Justin Bogard (23:46):
So yeah, they, they.
And then hanging around peoplethat are like minded like that
as well.
I mean, obviously your, yourteam, is cohesive because
they're all there for the samepurpose and the same goal, right
.
And then putting yourselveswith other people that are
interested in real estate orinterested in notes it's only
(24:07):
going to make you better andwant to hang out with them
because you can, all you know,feed off of each other, right.
So that's pretty cool,Absolutely.
You got any funny stories yeahabsolutely.
No, not funny stories.
Joe Leonard (24:22):
We lost in the playoffs last week.
So we had a great year.
We ended up going 22 and three.
And so, even though you have aspectacular year, it's always,
it's always a sudden, you know,a sudden end.
And so for the seniors, we hadfour seniors for them, and it's,
you know.
But there's only at the end.
There's only one team thatstands so proud of the work.
(24:46):
Back when I was in high school,or maybe when you were in high
school, they just didn't put inthe time and the effort.
But now it's a 10 monthcommitment.
I mean, if you're going to doit, or do it well, if you've got
kids of your own, you know whoplays sports.
I coach AAU basketball andthat's getting ready to start up
next week, and so I've got ateam that I'll coach of 10th
(25:06):
graders, and so the journey willstart with those girls in a
week or so.
Justin Bogard (25:13):
That's amazing and you're exactly right.
It's completely different today.
I have a 12 year old and 10year old daughters, so one in a
fifth and one in seventh grade,which is the same school.
We have an intermediate andjunior high that are just in the
same building now, and it's mydaughters don't really get into
sports a whole lot, but everynow and then they do that stuff
(25:33):
and it's, you're right, it'slike if you want to be
competitive in it, it's justlike you know you're, you have
to dedicate your life to it,kind of to want to be at that
level, to compete with the bestof the best, or it's just.
It's just, you know, arecreational thing, which is
fine too.
But yeah, it's a big differencebetween when I was back in high
school and I'm not too muchyounger than you.
(25:54):
I'm a little bit younger, allright, cool.
Well, coach Leonard, is thatwhat they call you?
Joe Leonard (26:02):
That's what they call me.
Yes, they do.
Justin Bogard (26:04):
Coach Leonard, well, I appreciate you being on
the podcast today.
Thank you for entrusting mewith you know, your investment
portfolio and helping you growthat.
It's awesome to hear thestories that you went through
with Lane Lordy and convertingeverything to notes.
I think that's why you're theperfect candidate to be on the
show to prove that you know itdoes make a difference and it
does alleviate a lot ofchallenges and uncertainties,
(26:26):
and especially with, in yourcase, it was the predictability
of that cashflow coming in.
So do you have any words ofwisdom for our audience here
before we close out?
Joe Leonard (26:36):
Well, I would say this I would say when people ask
me and I get asked a lot howare you able to retire?
So you know, so soon or soearly, whenever I tell that
story, our conversation, or youknow me going down the
Cincinnati and you know you're apart of it, you're a part of
the story there, so you knowI've listened to these podcasts
(26:56):
where they've said you know,I've retired and I don't have a
nine to five, and I alwaysthought that's not really
possible.
It is.
It is if you have it, you know,figured out, and if you're
diligent about it, and so it canhappen.
But for me, once I started tomake any money off of real
estate, I always put that moneyright back into buying more.
I never used it to go buysomething else, a new car,
(27:20):
whatever.
I just consider that to be abusiness, and whatever I made,
it always went back in there.
So I was able to save a lot, alot sooner.
So I'm just a regular guy and Iwas able to do it.
It is possible and I've reallyenjoyed the note business and I
again, I owe it to you as I'vesaid, a part of my story will
(27:40):
always be me going down theCincinnati and hearing your
conversation.
Justin Bogard (27:45):
So would you call yourself an average Joe then?
Joe Leonard (27:47):
I think I'm an average Joe.
Yeah, I think I'll take that.
All right, joe.
Justin Bogard (27:53):
Well, thanks again for being on this show.
It's been awesome to get toknow you and I'm glad that we're
friends and we still stayconnected.
And, yeah, everybody.
This was episode number six onseason six of the Be the Bank
podcast.
You can check out the videostream on our YouTube channel,
the American Notebuyer's YouTubechannel as well.
And Joe, so long, my friend,and I hope to see you soon.
Joe Leonard (28:13):
You got it.
Thanks, justin.
All right, go ahead.
Narrator (28:20):
Thanks for listening to Be the Bank.
We hope you learned somethingfrom today's show.
If you enjoyed this episode,please rate and review us.
Plus, check out our channel onYouTube and follow us on
Facebook and Twitter at Be theBank, and on Instagram at Be the
Bank podcast.
Be the Bank is sponsored byAmerican Notebuyers.
Thanks again for listening.
Interested in real estate.
How about wealth?
Well, they go hand in hand, andhere you'll learn all about it.
Welcome to Be the Bank, apodcast where we discuss and
debate the topics centeredaround real estate investing.
Your host, Justin Bogart,shares insights into investing
in real estate to create realwealth and passive income for
(00:23):
you and your family.
He'll share stories of realestate investments done right,
Walk you through the process ofowning a real estate note and,
most importantly, educate you soyou can Be the Bank.
This is Be the Bank, brought toyou by American Note Buyers.
Now here's your host, JustinBogart.
Justin Bogard (00:46):
Hey, hey, listener, this is episode number
six of season six on the Be theBank broadcast brought to you
by American Note Buyers, andtoday it's going to be a little
bit different.
We actually have an investor ofours that's invested with us
for a while now and he's got acool story.
He's actually a high schoolbasketball coach and we're going
to talk a little bit about thatand kind of his adventures in
(01:09):
land loading and lean loading.
So Mr Joe Leonard will be on.
So stay tuned, hey Joe, that'sa Jimi Hendrix song.
(01:31):
Right, it starts off, hey Joe.
I think so.
So if I email or text anybodynamed Joe, that the first thing
comes to my head because my dadplays in a band and so he loves
the 60s and 50s and 70s musicand Hendrix is one of his
favorite artists because heplays guitar too.
Not let's name it right handed,but yes, I always think of that
(01:52):
.
Hey Joe, how are we doing?
I'm doing really well.
Unfortunately, it's kind ofgloomy here in the Fisher's
Indiana area where I'm currentlyat recording this, and I think
you're not too far from me,aren't you?
You know, Hio.
Joe Leonard (02:08):
Yeah, I'm in Akron Kent area, which is south of
Cleveland.
Justin Bogard (02:14):
Okay, so you, you basically help LeBron get to
the NBA, right.
Joe Leonard (02:19):
Right, I wish, I wish.
Justin Bogard (02:23):
Man, how long ago has he been the NBA?
For 20, 20 years.
Joe Leonard (02:27):
Yes, yes, so he was quite the high school player,
and he's done the same on thepro level.
Justin Bogard (02:34):
Have you ever run across him?
Joe Leonard (02:37):
I have not.
No, I mean, I've seen him playquite a few times, but never run
across him when he played forthe Cavaliers or like that
during high school stuff.
During the Cavalier days, highschool days.
Those were smaller venues andso they usually sold out, so you
usually couldn't get tickets.
Justin Bogard (02:57):
Probably two years in advance too.
Joe Leonard (02:59):
Yeah, it was crazy.
Justin Bogard (03:02):
I guess the audience doesn't realize, if
they don't already.
You coach high school women'sbasketball as your, as your
profession, right?
Joe Leonard (03:09):
Correct.
So I retired about about twoand a half years ago, and so my
my job right now is to coachhigh school varsity girls
basketball, and so that's mypassion.
The season just ended last week, and so so, yeah, you know I
spend most of my time onbasketball.
Justin Bogard (03:32):
I love basketball .
I thought I was decent at ituntil I got to try out to the
middle school team and then Irealized I wasn't that good at
playing basketball.
It was just in my mind, youknow, playing with my buddies,
you know, doing doing those noblood, no foul rules was always
fun.
But yeah, I never could playwith the others on the you know
a structured environment.
(03:52):
So I'm just a pickup guy.
Joe Leonard (03:55):
That's all right, I'll throw in that.
Justin Bogard (03:58):
What did you do before you retired?
Joe Leonard (04:02):
So my profession up until a few years ago, I was in
the corporate world of agrocery store, and so I used to
travel around as a regionalmanager of a local grocery store
in the Cleveland, columbus,youngstown area, and so, if
anyone knows anything aboutretail, retail is six days a
(04:22):
week, and even on the seventhday that you're off it's still
going to get called.
It's a tough way to make aliving.
Justin Bogard (04:30):
Oh man, I'm glad that you got out of that.
You don't seem like you're tooold, so did you retire early?
Joe Leonard (04:36):
I did.
I was 51.
And so it was kind of always agoal of mine as I was growing up
.
And so, as I went about myjourney with real estate, my
main goal wasn't you know, whatam I going to have in 20 years,
30 years?
It was how do I replace theincome that I'm currently, you
(04:57):
know, getting doing a job?
And so that's how I alwaysanalyze any deal or anything
that I thought I might want toget into.
Justin Bogard (05:04):
So so when did you start investing in real
estate?
Joe Leonard (05:10):
So, growing up, my dad, you know he had one or two,
I think he had one house thathe rented out, and so as a kid I
was always fascinated by that,and so he actually owned it
before I was born.
But you know, my brother and Iwould always ask him questions
about it, and we were just kindof always amazed that you could.
You know, he had a two familyhome, and I think him and my mom
lived upstairs or whatever.
(05:32):
They rented the other part out,and so my brother and I were
kind of fascinated by that, andso when it was our turn to buy
our first home, we both did that.
Four streets apart from eachother in the city of Cleveland.
I was a two family home.
This was like middle of the1990s and so I lived upstairs, I
rented the downstairs and thenI had a roommate at the time,
(05:53):
because I was pretty young atthe time, so you know.
So the payment at that time was, you know, the nineties was
like $400 a month was themortgage payment.
The guy downstairs was paying$600.
And the roommate was paying$300 plus half utilities.
And I'm like you know what?
There might be something tothis.
Justin Bogard (06:10):
So I like the numbers already.
Joe Leonard (06:12):
Yeah, it was pretty good.
So from there, you know, I justI lived there for about 10
years really allowed me to maxout on 401K and just kind of
save in any other fashion, andthen about 10 years later, I
bought another one and then thejourney just continued from
(06:35):
there.
I just continued to buy moreand more.
Justin Bogard (06:37):
So when did owning rentals become more of
like a part time job, since youhad a full time job at the time?
Joe Leonard (06:47):
So I got up to about 10 or 11 houses and I
would say about number five orsix.
It became, you know, it becameanother job.
So I always had a managementcompany.
So for me I was pretty busywith my work and so I really
couldn't afford to be dealingwith phone calls in the middle
(07:09):
of the night and all that otherstuff.
So I had a management companythat took care of a lot of it.
But you know, there's still theworry of of just owning a
rental property.
Justin Bogard (07:22):
Yeah, so you obviously have bought some loans
before, which is why you're onthe Be the Bank podcast today.
And so at what point did youdecide, or did you figure out,
that you kind of wanted toinvest in some notes as well?
Joe Leonard (07:37):
So I always thought the buy and hold real estate
would allow me to retire, and sowhat I quickly learned was that
wasn't going to be the case,and so I needed steady, reliable
income, and it just wasn'tgoing to happen.
The you know, I might get $500from this house one month and
then next month I get nothing,or then I get $200.
(07:58):
And so it was just too unstable.
And so I was at a real estate,one of those meetings in
downtown Cleveland, witheveryone gathered around, and so
, you know, a speaker showed upI'm not even sure who the
speaker was, but he wasdiscussing notes and I had never
heard about it and so he passedout a flyer.
I literally left middle of the,you know, he had an
(08:20):
intermission probably about anhour into it, and I grabbed the
paper and I said this guy, he'scrazy.
So I left, and so I went home,and the more I thought about it,
you know it had a too good tobe true kind of a feel about it
at first, and so I began torealize maybe it wasn't too good
to be true.
And so so I did as much researchas I could on performing notes
(08:43):
and you know all those things.
And then the Cleveland area atthat time there wasn't a note
convention or any type of groupthat met for notes.
I don't even know if there istoday, but so I traveled down to
Cincinnati and that's where Isaw you speak at that meeting
down there in Cincinnati.
And so when I sat through thatmeeting I just remembered when
(09:04):
you came up you just seemed likea straightforward, honest.
You didn't seem like you weretrying to sell the group
anything.
You know what I mean, you justkind of an educator of knowledge
.
And so I had a real good feelabout that.
And so shortly thereafter weexchanged numbers and I
purchased my first one from you.
Justin Bogard (09:25):
That's awesome.
Well, I must have been a verygood actor back then to convince
you that I wasn't trying tosell you.
Joe Leonard (09:31):
I'm just kidding.
I mean, I can remember being onthe phone and the first one we
bought was in Indiana and yousaid, joe, this is in my home
state, if anything goes wronghere, I'm not gonna disappear,
I'll be there for you.
And I said, all right, let's doit.
And so I remember being onvacation.
I got the first payment and Ithought, well, this is pretty
(09:52):
good.
So, you know, it's just kind ofjust kept building from there.
And so eventually I sold allthe rental properties that I had
and went all in.
After I went through COVID withthe notes that I had, and I
really did very well.
I was fortunate.
I thought, boy oh boy, I boughtall these notes.
And now here we go with COVID.
(10:13):
What is the dumbest idea everAfter COVID happened.
It was kind of a proof ofconcept If you can survive COVID
with the notes, then go for it.
So I sold every rental propertyI had.
I bought every single note thatI possibly could, and then
shortly thereafter, a coupleyears ago, I retired.
Justin Bogard (10:35):
That's awesome.
So collapsing your entirerental portfolio and converting
it into notes.
We had the same assumptionsgoing into COVID as well, with
our portfolio.
It was like, oh man, this, Idon't know how this is going to
turn out, but people kept payingand they kept paying and they
kept paying.
I'm like I'm not seeing anyperformance going the opposite
(10:55):
direction.
I'm seeing, if anything, itkeeps steady and people are
wanting to pay off early, and sowe had a great experience
during COVID as well, and evenafter the post COVID stuff as
well in our portfolio.
So what has been yourgeographic model with buying
notes versus rentals?
Because obviously with rentals,you've probably kept them close
(11:18):
to where you actually livethere in the Akron Cleveland
area, right, yes, and so withthe notes I bought the first few
from you, or I don't know.
Joe Leonard (11:29):
it's probably six or seven that I got from you,
and so a lot of those wereIndiana and your home state.
There At first I still had themindset of a landlord, so I was
trying to get them as close aspossible.
So I do have probably five orsix Ohio.
But then eventually, you know,you got to spread your wings and
so now I'm all over you know,or Alabama, arizona, oklahoma,
(11:55):
mississippi, florida, so it'spretty much just.
The beauty of notes is that youknow you can go all over.
I don't have any California, Idon't have any New York, I'm not
really sure why.
I just think I've heard enoughthat say don't do that.
So I just kind of stay away.
But really I like the Midwest.
(12:16):
But I'll always look at, youknow, the location really
doesn't bother me.
Justin Bogard (12:22):
Yeah, it's the same thing that I went through
when I got into the notesbusiness from being in what I
call traditional real estate,where everything was local to me
and I could see it and I couldtouch it and I could walk
through it.
And the first time we get anote you're just like, well,
it's not near me, like I don't,should I be doing this?
Like you're starting toquestion everything about it.
But then you know you step backand like it's just a passive
(12:42):
investment, like if I was goingto the stock market and just
picking something out, like it'snothing where I can see and
touch and feel.
It's like you're dependent onother things.
Obviously it's there's nosecurity with that different
apples to apples comparison, butapples to bananas comparison, I
guess.
But yeah, it's so, so different.
But then, like I like what yousaid, when you're on vacation,
you got that first check,because I was actually on
(13:04):
vacation when I bought my firstnote.
I was actually out of thecountry when I bought it and
there's just kind of a coolfeeling.
It's like I can be here,present, with my kids and my
family, and then also I can stepaside and do this transaction.
I can do it from anywhere inthe world and I don't have to be
there in front of property, Idon't have to be in front of a
title company to close, and itcan all just happen seamlessly.
(13:24):
And I have the same you knowrights and ownership as any
other bank.
It wouldn't be any different.
So it's just kind of a coolfeeling how this whole process
works in the note space and howit's just kind of it's more
seamless and streamlined thanwhat you think.
Joe Leonard (13:38):
Yeah, no, I would.
I would absolutely agree.
I have a few friends who arestill buy and hold and I think
they think it's cool to havephysical properties, like look
at all my properties and like,well, you could say what you
want.
But I remember when I was thelandlord, you know they would
move out every year or two andthen you got to put in money to
advertise to get a new tenant.
So then the cities in theCleveland area were getting so
(14:01):
tough on landlords that there'sno way I would want to go go
back to that.
In fact, when I buy notes now,I want performing notes.
I don't want to take over.
I've already been a landlord.
I don't want the property.
I don't want to get involved inthat.
That's not my, that's not mygoal.
So for me I look at paymenthistory, a solid payment history
(14:21):
.
If it's not solid, I don't carewhat the yield is, I'm not
interested.
Justin Bogard (14:26):
Yeah, that's a good way to analyze your deals
and I've always been that way aswell Is looking at the pay
history and not not reallylooking at the return.
Because the return versus thewhat you have in front of you
you know if you have a greatnote you're going to get a
little bit lower return.
But if you have a risky noteyou're going to get a little bit
higher return.
Right, because you expect that.
(14:46):
But oftentimes that riskiernote doesn't give you the higher
return because they keepmissing payments or it becomes a
foreclosure or maybe a dragdrag on foreclosure and it can
really slow down your deal.
When you're trying to get cashflow, when you're not worried
about cash flow and you're beingtransactional but you can wait
a year or two, then that youknow you anticipate non
performing to be part of yourportfolio.
(15:07):
But when you're, when you'restrictly trying to replace your
income, like you were trying todo, you definitely want to have
consistent payers, on timepayers and have that predictable
cash flow coming in.
And then obviously, once youbuild it up enough 10, 12, 20
loans then you can absorb someof those down times that come in
with those loans, because youknow there are things that
(15:27):
happen in the business with typeof loans that we buy.
We got payers that you knowsometimes they're living a
little little bit paycheck topaycheck and sometimes they
might have to pinch a fewpennies, you know, every month
and might be skipping a mortgagepayment you.
But they typically get caughtup and so once you have a big
enough portfolio, you justabsorb some of those bumps in
the road.
Joe Leonard (15:46):
Yeah, I know, I mean that's exactly.
I mean everyone goes in it fortheir own.
You know some people want totake the property over, some
people, like you said, you knowthey that yield is most
important to them.
For me, I didn't want to work,I wanted to do what I wanted to
do and steady income replacingmy income, plus giving me some
buffer so that I could buy andreplace the ones that fall off
(16:09):
every year because of payment orwhatever.
So so everybody has their ownstrategy is just finding what
your, what your strategy is, andI just think the no business is
definitely the way to go.
Justin Bogard (16:22):
Do you do any other investing with any more of
your retirement accountanywhere else, or is it mainly
just real estate and notes?
Joe Leonard (16:30):
Just real estate and notes.
That's pretty much for rightnow, that's that's.
You know, to my comfort levelis, and so you know, but I
always, I'm always lookingaround, but for right now that's
that's really what I, what Ifeel most comfortable with.
Justin Bogard (16:47):
What has been an experience in a note investing
since you've bought so manyloans that you kind of learned
some lessons about investing insome of these things that you'd
be like man I wish.
I wish I would have realizedthis sooner, or I wish I would
have avoided this type of noteor this, this red flag that I
really didn't see until it waslater in the pay history.
Joe Leonard (17:11):
That's a good question.
You know, I would say initiallyI was probably, you know, too
conservative and so I probablycould have, could have been
involved sooner.
You know, I think I think,especially doing that first deal
, you know, I wanted all, allbut guarantee that it was going
to be.
You know, payments were goingto be made.
(17:32):
So I think I dragged my feet,you know, for for way longer
than I probably should have.
You know, I really haven't.
There hasn't been too manysurprises.
I actually have my first note,that is, that is not paying and
it hasn't paid for a littlewhile.
So they're going down thatforeclosure road.
So this is new to me.
But when I look at that deal, Ithink I would still do that
(17:55):
again.
You know, just one of thosethings that just got to happen
as you get into the business.
Justin Bogard (18:01):
So yeah, the the law of averages or whatever you
want to call it's going to comeinto play.
When you have a portfolio bigenough, something's going to
happen to where one of them isgoing to go bad or not or not
pay.
It's hard to say that you'llhave a hundred percent perfect
payers on every single loan thatyou have every single 100% of
the time.
Right.
Joe Leonard (18:19):
Yeah, it would be nice if you did, but you know, I
mean even this one here I, ifthey could turn around and start
paying again tomorrow, I'd befine with that, you know, and we
could try to work something out.
But it this one just doesn'tlook like it's going to happen
Now.
It is within two hours of ofwhere I live.
I guess I'm lucky in thatregards, but you know.
(18:40):
But you know, what are yougoing to do?
As you say, once you start tobuild up enough there, you're
eventually going to run aprocess, and so this will be a
learning exchange experience forme as I run through it.
Justin Bogard (18:54):
What does your kind of day to day look like now
that you're retired?
You don't have the full timejob anymore.
You obviously you know you dothe basketball stuff now for the
local team there.
But obviously since theseason's over now and you have
built this wealth with yourportfolio you have of your notes
, do you spend a lot of timelike looking at other investing
opportunities?
(19:14):
Are you more relaxed and justdo other things that kind of
make you happy that you want todo?
Joe Leonard (19:20):
Yeah, I mean, I don't really do as much with the
investing as I probably should.
You know, obviously I check inon the notes a couple of times a
week just to get an idea there.
But really my time is my time,and so I go to the gym.
Probably, you know, five, sixdays a week I like to go see my
mother, who's in Cleveland.
Even though the season is over,for us it really is a 10 month
(19:45):
season, so it'll begin in 30days.
It'll start back up the monthof June and then last summer I
did a lot of volunteering, andso I spent a week in Maryland at
a basketball camp.
Just so I'm just living.
I'm doing things that I want todo.
You know, I'm playing in astaff against seniors basketball
(20:05):
game, and so we have practicetonight, and so, yeah, really
most of my time is just.
You know, myself and my fiancewe do a lot of traveling, and so
now that the season's over,that'll start.
But, yeah, more leisure than itis business.
Justin Bogard (20:24):
Let me ask some non-note questions here.
So did you play basketball inhigh school and college and
stuff?
Joe Leonard (20:31):
I mean I did in high school, but I was, I mean
I'm six, six now, but back inthose days I was only five, two,
so I did not play, did not growuntil college, so kind of one
of those lucky to be tall, but Icould have used it to go back
in the high school days.
So yeah, I mean I've always,I've always enjoyed doing that.
(20:55):
I've been coaching for probablyabout 10 years, 15 years now,
and it's really your passion.
They say, find your passion.
And if you can do that, youknow, then it's not really work.
And so I really enjoy that.
I enjoy the game, I enjoy justworking with the kids, so has
basketball always been yourfavorite sport.
(21:17):
It, has, it, has it's.
You know, even growing up, itwould be countless hours in the
driveway just enjoying gettingup shots.
And so you, being from Indiana,how about?
I'm sure it's a it's exactly it.
Justin Bogard (21:33):
Yeah, my dad, as soon as he could, he put a pole
in the driveway with concretearound in a basketball hoop and
we were just out there playingdad versus son like all the time
.
I never could beat the old manhook shot that he had it was.
It was a game killer for me.
Joe Leonard (21:48):
I just no matter what they climb on his back,
whatever, it still would go in,yeah that's good and you know,
one of the things now is I canyou know I share stories with
with my players about.
You know they always ask me youknow how are you so young and
retired?
And so it allows me to kind ofeducate them on, you know, only
money but, but whatever else,and so you kind of you kind of
(22:11):
build a rapport with the kidsabout that, and so they're
certainly inquisitive, you know,about why I can attend practice
at 10 o'clock in the morningwhen they're off for a day, and
why I could be there at 6 am fora shoot around if they want.
So so yeah, so not only youknow, I try to help them out and
and and let them know maybesome secrets, that or some
(22:31):
things that I've learned.
Justin Bogard (22:34):
That's awesome, to pay it forward, I wish people
would have came to my highschool and kind of taught more
of the of the realisticfinancial life, of what it is to
be an adult.
Because you know when,everything that I was taught
before I really got and learnedabout real estate was, you know,
you just take your paycheck andyou put so much aside and you
keep it in a savings account oryou keep forcing it into your
(22:56):
401k and let someone else manageyour money, and little did I
know that you could actuallyinvest in these things and you
don't have to use those standardways of of investing, because
to me it was almost like abrainwash thing to where I was
told this is like the only thingyou do, like, oh here, you just
need to do this, without reallygiving you options.
So yeah, nice to hear thatyou're able to pass that on to
(23:18):
your kid, to your, not your kids.
I meant your, your playing,your playing kids, right?
Joe Leonard (23:23):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
You know, and some of them someof them are interested and some
of them aren't but you know,you always get the ones that say
I want to be rich someday and Isaid, well, why don't we talk
about that?
You know what does that, whatdoes that mean and how are you
going to go about that?
So, so, yeah, I think I thinkthey're apt to listen to you
when they know that you'veactually you know you achieved
(23:45):
some financial freedom.
Justin Bogard (23:46):
So yeah, they, they.
And then hanging around peoplethat are like minded like that
as well.
I mean, obviously your, yourteam, is cohesive because
they're all there for the samepurpose and the same goal, right
.
And then putting yourselveswith other people that are
interested in real estate orinterested in notes it's only
(24:07):
going to make you better andwant to hang out with them
because you can, all you know,feed off of each other, right.
So that's pretty cool,Absolutely.
You got any funny stories yeahabsolutely.
No, not funny stories.
Joe Leonard (24:22):
We lost in the playoffs last week.
So we had a great year.
We ended up going 22 and three.
And so, even though you have aspectacular year, it's always,
it's always a sudden, you know,a sudden end.
And so for the seniors, we hadfour seniors for them, and it's,
you know.
But there's only at the end.
There's only one team thatstands so proud of the work.
(24:46):
Back when I was in high school,or maybe when you were in high
school, they just didn't put inthe time and the effort.
But now it's a 10 monthcommitment.
I mean, if you're going to doit, or do it well, if you've got
kids of your own, you know whoplays sports.
I coach AAU basketball andthat's getting ready to start up
next week, and so I've got ateam that I'll coach of 10th
(25:06):
graders, and so the journey willstart with those girls in a
week or so.
Justin Bogard (25:13):
That's amazing and you're exactly right.
It's completely different today.
I have a 12 year old and 10year old daughters, so one in a
fifth and one in seventh grade,which is the same school.
We have an intermediate andjunior high that are just in the
same building now, and it's mydaughters don't really get into
sports a whole lot, but everynow and then they do that stuff
(25:33):
and it's, you're right, it'slike if you want to be
competitive in it, it's justlike you know you're, you have
to dedicate your life to it,kind of to want to be at that
level, to compete with the bestof the best, or it's just.
It's just, you know, arecreational thing, which is
fine too.
But yeah, it's a big differencebetween when I was back in high
school and I'm not too muchyounger than you.
(25:54):
I'm a little bit younger, allright, cool.
Well, coach Leonard, is thatwhat they call you?
Joe Leonard (26:02):
That's what they call me.
Yes, they do.
Justin Bogard (26:04):
Coach Leonard, well, I appreciate you being on
the podcast today.
Thank you for entrusting mewith you know, your investment
portfolio and helping you growthat.
It's awesome to hear thestories that you went through
with Lane Lordy and convertingeverything to notes.
I think that's why you're theperfect candidate to be on the
show to prove that you know itdoes make a difference and it
does alleviate a lot ofchallenges and uncertainties,
(26:26):
and especially with, in yourcase, it was the predictability
of that cashflow coming in.
So do you have any words ofwisdom for our audience here
before we close out?
Joe Leonard (26:36):
Well, I would say this I would say when people ask
me and I get asked a lot howare you able to retire?
So you know, so soon or soearly, whenever I tell that
story, our conversation, or youknow me going down the
Cincinnati and you know you're apart of it, you're a part of
the story there, so you knowI've listened to these podcasts
(26:56):
where they've said you know,I've retired and I don't have a
nine to five, and I alwaysthought that's not really
possible.
It is.
It is if you have it, you know,figured out, and if you're
diligent about it, and so it canhappen.
But for me, once I started tomake any money off of real
estate, I always put that moneyright back into buying more.
I never used it to go buysomething else, a new car,
(27:20):
whatever.
I just consider that to be abusiness, and whatever I made,
it always went back in there.
So I was able to save a lot, alot sooner.
So I'm just a regular guy and Iwas able to do it.
It is possible and I've reallyenjoyed the note business and I
again, I owe it to you as I'vesaid, a part of my story will
(27:40):
always be me going down theCincinnati and hearing your
conversation.
Justin Bogard (27:45):
So would you call yourself an average Joe then?
Joe Leonard (27:47):
I think I'm an average Joe.
Yeah, I think I'll take that.
All right, joe.
Justin Bogard (27:53):
Well, thanks again for being on this show.
It's been awesome to get toknow you and I'm glad that we're
friends and we still stayconnected.
And, yeah, everybody.
This was episode number six onseason six of the Be the Bank
podcast.
You can check out the videostream on our YouTube channel,
the American Notebuyer's YouTubechannel as well.
And Joe, so long, my friend,and I hope to see you soon.
Joe Leonard (28:13):
You got it.
Thanks, justin.
All right, go ahead.
Narrator (28:20):
Thanks for listening to Be the Bank.
We hope you learned somethingfrom today's show.
If you enjoyed this episode,please rate and review us.
Plus, check out our channel onYouTube and follow us on
Facebook and Twitter at Be theBank, and on Instagram at Be the
Bank podcast.
Be the Bank is sponsored byAmerican Notebuyers.
Thanks again for listening.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.