November 29, 2023 • 31 mins
Unearth the secrets of success in the real estate world with our special guest Brian Force. Aside from being an ardent golfer, Brian is a seasoned player in the realms of property management, real estate sales, and multi-family syndication. Our conversation navigates through his intriguing journey, revealing how he carved out his career path in this volatile industry. Get ready to be entertained with some golf talk, as we discuss the variety of courses around Texas. Also, you won't want to miss Brian's personal insights on his own podcast.
The real estate investing field is as challenging as it is rewarding. Brian and I delve into the pressing issues that investors face, such as the importance of due diligence in verifying asset values. We also highlight how investors themselves can steer market momentum. The conversation takes a darker turn as we discuss the manipulative schemes of certain players who bind properties with the intention of re-trading later. However, it's not all gloom and doom. Brian emphasizes the potential for success through opportunism, dedication, and hard work, even in challenging times. This episode is packed with knowledge and tips to help you navigate the demanding yet rewarding world of real estate investing.
Resources and links discussed:
- Videocast on our YouTube Channel
- ANB Funds Website - https://anbfunds.com
- The Only Real Estate Podcast Worth Listening To (TOREPWLT) - Brian's Podcast
- https://facebook.com/onlyrepodcast
- https://www.youtube.com/onlyrepod
About the Host:
Justin Bogard – Note Investor specializing in performing Residential Real Estate Debt. He finds deals and acquires them for his own portfolio as well as educates investors while walking them through the process of owning a Real Estate Note!
Connect with the Host:
Facebook - bethebank
Twitter - bethebank1
Instagram - bethebankpodcast
American Note Buyers - https://anbfunds.com/
Monthly Broadcast - https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzc944w1xydt5aLDrrEPHJhdJeDkBjjD4
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Narrator (00:02):
Interested in real estate.
How about wealth?
Well, they go hand in hand, andhere you'll learn all about it.
Welcome to Be the Bank, apodcast where we discuss and
debate the topics centeredaround real estate investing.
Your host, justin Bogart,shares insights into investing
in real estate to create realwealth and passive income for
(00:22):
you and your family.
He'll share stories of realestate investments done right,
take you through the process ofowning a real estate note and,
most importantly, educate you soyou can be the bank.
This is Be the Bank brought toyou by American Notebuyers.
Now here's your host, justinBogart.
Justin Bogard (00:45):
Hey, hey, listeners, Justin Bogart here
and welcome to another episodeof the Be the Bank, number 24
this season, on season number 5.
Man, we only got a coupleepisodes left to end the season.
Woohoo, Our special guest.
His name is Brian Force.
You guys are going to love thisguy.
He's got a ton of energy, he'syounger than me and he knows
quite a bit about real estate.
So you ought to listen to himwhen he talks.
(01:06):
And we're going to be bringingup the fact about kind of
sketchy people in our businessand just kind of watching out
for the bad actors.
So you're going to love thisepisode, so stay tuned, Brian.
(01:26):
What's happening, buddy?
What's up, brother?
How are you Doing?
Very well, it is decidingwhether it's going to cool down
or heat up here in Indiana.
So our weather is typicallyaround this time, probably about
20 degrees in the morning, upto about 50, mid-50s in the
afternoon, and right now it'sstill hovering in the mid-60s,
even though it's 70s or a fewdays here.
(01:48):
So I'm afraid that we're goingto, the frost is going to come
in, and just you know nip it tothe… I was going to say is this
maybe like?
Brian Force (01:53):
I got to look on my phone here?
Is this maybe the first timethat we're on that?
Is it like colder than whenyou're at?
We're at?
No, we're at 65 right now.
This is pretty normal for Texasin November, though we might
get up to 100 a few more timesthis year, who knows?
Justin Bogard (02:07):
It's nice to be you man, oh man.
Brian Force (02:09):
Well still, you can still go play golf in December
here, so that's not a bad thing.
Justin Bogard (02:13):
Man, I love playing golf.
If I could play golf every day,I would, I really would.
Brian Force (02:18):
It's charity tournament season around here,
because it's a little cheaper toplay.
Right now it's a charitytournament, so it seems like
every week that's awesome.
Justin Bogard (02:26):
So what do you play down there?
Do they have links courses oris it wooded courses?
Brian Force (02:32):
Oh man, we've got a little bit of it.
Texas, north Texas area, iskind of a mecca for golf so
we've got like they'll pull outall the stops.
So we have like a really greatlike links course called the
Tribute, which is a very kind oflike nationally renowned links
course around here all the wayup to like I live right down the
road from the new PGA resort,which I've not had the pleasure
(02:53):
of playing yet, but it'sincredible from what I hear.
So I mean it's we got everyflavor and delicacy of golf
course around here you couldpossibly imagine.
Man, it's pretty awesome.
Justin Bogard (03:04):
I would love to lose all my golf balls down
there.
That sounds like a lot of fun.
And don't I know it 18 holes,18 golf balls gone.
It's an expensive sport but wekeep coming back from work as
we're glutton for punishment.
Brian Force (03:15):
Exactly, brother.
Justin Bogard (03:16):
All right.
So for the for listening andviewing audience here well,
actually listening audience ifyou didn't know, we have a
YouTube channel American notebuyers YouTube channel.
You come over and check us outand you can see the video feed
of today's episode.
And so Brian and I don't knoweach other for a very long time,
but we do know each other andour commonality factor is
actually his father, and so hisfather is heavily in the note
(03:37):
business right now and heactually has a mentor, eddie
Speed, who's who's my mentor aswell.
And so that's kind of how wemet.
And so Brian and I met becausehis dad, tom, brought him to a
mastermind that I was at with mybusiness partner, richard,
who's usually on the on the show, but we kicked him off today
just because you know he's, hegot in trouble with HR, so he's
(03:57):
just not allowed to be on theday.
That's his punishment, but yeah, so Brian and I got to meet at
the mastermind.
We kind of hit it off.
I kind of know a little bitabout his story, which he's
going to share today, and we'regoing to get into some fun
topics.
But, brian, why don't you goahead and just kind of set the,
set the table here with as faras, like you know, what have you
been doing in real estate sofar?
And I definitely want to plugyour podcast because I want to
(04:19):
make sure people are going tosubscribe to your podcast.
Sure.
Brian Force (04:22):
Absolutely.
Thanks, man, it's.
It's fun to be on this side ofthings for for the first time in
a while.
Justin Bogard (04:27):
I'm using the one-up Instead of posting you're
, you're guesting right.
Brian Force (04:29):
Yeah, exactly, it's a totally different flavor.
So my name is Brian force I.
I've been in real estate forabout 13 years now.
It just I guess, if you countbeing a licensed real estate
professional been wholesalingand stuff since I was about 19
years old, so maybe more, likeyou know, 16, 17 years.
I currently run a real estatesales team with Keller Williams
(04:54):
that's the Livian DFW team.
We're blessed enough to doabout 350 home sales last year.
I run a home word propertymanagement we should co-founded
a couple of years ago.
We manage about 400 residentialdoors across North Texas now
and run a multi-familysyndication company called deep
blue capital.
We did our first acquisitionearlier this year.
(05:18):
That market we're trying toacquire more and more right now,
but the multi-family space isvery interesting right now.
So I've naturally have spreadmyself pretty thin in my in my
real estate endeavors and then Ialso co-host two podcasts.
One is the only real estatepodcast worth listening to.
We've been doing that for aboutsix years.
(05:40):
We're very fortunate to be oneof the Inman News's top 25 real
estate podcasts in 2022.
Yeah, and even though thatone's called the only one worth
listening to, I do do anotherone.
That's our multi-family podcastcalled the more doors podcast.
We just started that oneearlier this year.
It's been phenomenal.
It's been.
I've met so many amazing peopleand operators and investors
(06:01):
through that podcast.
It's been very, very, very cool.
So that's a little bit about me.
I'm perpetually exhausted fromall the things I get myself into
, but I absolutely love it.
Justin Bogard (06:13):
I can say I hadn't listened to the other
podcasts you mentioned about themulti-family syndication.
Well one, obviously I'm in thenote business so I'm not really
looking at multi-family stuffthat often.
But you know the name was tooshort Exactly the only real
estate business you'll everlisten to.
It seems like a very long nameand so I figured you know you
got to listen to it.
(06:33):
If you have to read a paragraphto describe the name of the
podcast.
Brian Force (06:37):
We have made a name for ourselves, doing, I think,
everything the exact opposite ofwhat a successful podcast
should do.
We made the name too long.
Uh, we do it live and we neveredit it.
We barely market it.
To be honest with you.
It just we have a good networkof people that that are we're
blessed enough that they shareit out and it's growing.
(06:59):
It's gained a major followingand I don't think that we're
definitely not starting anonline course in how to be
professional podcasters anytimesoon.
I think we're very lucky tohave success that we've had,
because I think we've doneeverything wrong that they tell
you to do to grow a podcast.
Somehow it works.
Justin Bogard (07:14):
Well, it's a really cool podcast.
It's it's you guys done a greatjob with it.
You're you're two co-hosts Um,they do a great job as well, so
it's really fun.
I really encourage you guys tocheck it out Both podcasts,
obviously, but the the main one.
I listened to it and I also sawit on Facebook live the other
day too, when it just popped upuh, just cause we're friends on
Facebook, so that's how I saw itwas live.
It's really cool how you gotthe setup.
(07:35):
You know you got differentcamera positions going, you got
some, you got a great video, uh,person on demand and and the
post production of it as well.
Brian Force (07:42):
So it's really cool , you know what I think is
really, and you know and, andwe'll you know I won't dwell on
this too long, but I've alwayssaid that the podcast that we do
is a very good, uh, visualmetaphor for just the growth of
any type of venture or businessor whatever.
If you look at, I'm actuallysitting in our studio today but
I'm not hooked into our normalequipment, so I might sound a
(08:02):
little different.
We've got a very, very, veryprofessional setup now.
Um, which is awesome.
We sound good.
We have an engineer that thatruns the whole show.
Um, it's fantastic.
We actually, uh, we, we run thestudio as a separate, uh, a
separate company now, tourstudios, uh, tour to TOR the
only real estate that's kind ofour brand now tour studios uh,
produces several podcasts now.
(08:23):
So we actually have monetizedthat aspect of it.
But it started with, uh, me andmy co-hosts and a free zoom
account and that was it sixyears ago.
We had no idea what we weredoing.
If you go back and watch theold stuff, uh, the only thing
that we did right was put it onour calendars for Wednesday at 3
(08:44):
PM and never miss it.
And I think that that's such aa testament to what just
commitment over the longterm cando for you in any venture,
because we had no idea thisthing would get as, as big as it
has.
Um, but we didn't care.
3 PM on Wednesday, we werealways there to do it.
I think if you, if you takethat ideology into any business
venture, it's going to be reallydifficult not to be successful
(09:06):
if you're, if you're justconsistent and looks like you
guys have a lot of fun too, andthat's what I think's important
about podcasting.
Justin Bogard (09:11):
You know, it's about having fun and just having
a discussion debate.
Brian Force (09:15):
Yeah, exactly, it's a blast man that makes it.
That makes it way easy to keepcoming back.
It's awesome.
Justin Bogard (09:22):
Well, hey, man, today there's a subject matter
that I kind of wanted to getinto and typically what I do
with Richard and I.
We have something that happensto one of us during the week or
the previous week and we justkind of bring it up and talk
about it and it's kind of coolto be a fly on the wall.
You'd listen to her here aregoing to get to hear us go back
and forth on just a subjectmatter that we either may both
agree on when we lightly agreeon, maybe we disagree on.
So it's just kind of fun to goback and forth.
(09:42):
And so what I see lately andwhen I say lately, this is going
to be a loose a timeline hereby about a year is when this
economy kind of struggles inreal estate from my point of
view obviously I'm the noteinvestor guy here I'm seeing a
lot of people present to medeals.
I'm seeing them present medeals with like overinflation of
the actual real property value.
(10:03):
I think a lot of people gotreally excited during COVID and
they saw appreciation to shootthrough the roof and I am
looking at a deal, regardless ofwhat the unpaid balance is,
before I buy this note.
But I also want to know theproperty value is, and if I
notice that the property valueis severely overinflated from
what the note value is, you know, it's kind of a red flag to me.
(10:23):
I think sometimes they oversellthis thing.
So I just want to kind of startthis conversation, set the
table of, like you know, we'llcall this the poser mentality
when it comes to setting awholesale price.
Like I know, when I gotingrained into real estate
investing, the first thing theysaid is like don't trust a
wholesalers value.
You know, don't.
Regardless of who they are, youneed to do your own valuation
on it and get an idea.
Don't, don't trust theirnumbers, you need to run your
(10:45):
numbers, and so that definitelyholds true in what I'm doing
today.
Brian Force (10:50):
Yeah, 100% man, and you see it in the note business
.
I think one of the most visualgood metaphors that a lot of
investors would resonate with ismaybe, like the single family
wholesale business, right, justbecause that's you know, for the
longest time, and so I used toflip, you know, several houses a
year I don't as much anymorejust because the market got
(11:12):
really tight the last few years.
It was, it was Uber competitive, and whenever things are
continuously trending north likethey were up until middle of
2022, it can be difficult tocompete and I only have so much
time in the day.
So, yeah, what I noticed isthat most wholesale deals I mean
they didn't even make it to myinbox before somebody was buying
them.
Now I'm getting 20 or 30 a week, but, as you said, the numbers,
(11:33):
knowing what I know about theNorth Texas real estate market
and having done this for aliving for so long, I can
identify what an ARV is going tobe before I even pull up the
MLS to verify comps and they'rejust not really even close.
And as a wholesaler it's a youknow or as any sales
professional, let's say it's avery human thing to give in that
(11:53):
urge to really try to make acase for the maximum value of an
asset, and so you'll see someof these supporting documents or
CMAs or things like that thathave comps that are nowhere near
the most relevant, probably waytoo old to be to be considered.
You know the best comparablesand you just see wholesalers
making a case for a value that,as a professional, I know is
(12:16):
absolutely inflated from wheretoday's market's at so one.
It's obviously why you're, whyyou are tasked with being a
consummate professional on yourend, having a mechanism to run
your own numbers and do your own.
That's why they call it duediligence.
It is your job to verify thosethings.
I think it's a responsibilityyou know, and I would encourage
anybody that's you know lookingat.
You know whether it is notes,multifamily, single family,
(12:39):
whatever your intentions are.
You'll take the flippingbusiness, for example.
You know I'm making offers onstuff because I'm getting so
many more deals in my inboxright now that aren't even close
to what the wholesaler isasking for, right, and I have no
shame or doubt in that I'm notgoing to get as many deals if I
was just going with what theywere asking.
But I actually believe this tomy core.
(13:02):
I believe that buyers that canclose, savvy investors that have
an education and know whatthey're doing and have a track
record and have experience.
We have an actual I mean weactually have a responsibility
to drive the market with ouractivity Meaning.
If I talk about this a littlebit, on the multifamily side,
we're not able to get deals topencil.
(13:22):
So sometimes you know, mypartners won't even want to put
an LOI in.
I say no, we got to put an LOIin, because if we put an LOI in
and every other person, everyother group that's underwriting
and penciling this deal at thesame number that we are, puts an
LOI in, well, what do you thinkthat seller is going to feel
whenever they get 15 LOIs thatare a heck of a lot more
realistic in what their whisperprice is right?
(13:44):
Are they going to be obstinateor are they going to come around
and start to have a realisticconversation with the broker on
the state of the market, whattheir DISPO strategy is and
whether or not it makes sense tostick to their whisper price or
to come down?
But if we don't get in the game, the game never moves.
There's no momentum in anydirection, and so in these types
of when the market shiftsreally quickly.
(14:07):
You're going to have a lot oftimes an end user there who is
disbowing an asset whetherthey're selling a note, they're
selling a multifamily asset,they're selling a single family
house.
They're going to have adifferent perspective for a
while on what asset values looklike than what the buyers on the
other side are going to want topay.
The bid-ask spread is going toopen up pretty wide when you
(14:30):
have a quickly shifting marketlike we saw, really beginning in
the middle of 2020 or 2022, I'msorry.
And so in the middle therethere's going to be people that
are always going to be some badactors for sure.
Like you said before, there'salso going to be a lot of people
, if you look especially on thesingle family wholesale side
(14:52):
just people that aren't havingstrong conversations, just
wholesalers that are just makingpromises to a seller or a
homeowner that there's just nota chance of heck they're going
to be able to keep, because theywant that dopamine hit of
getting a deal under contractand they'll usually have no skin
in the game whatsoever.
Exactly, they're like I'llfigure it out on the other side
(15:15):
and if I'm playing with housemoney because I've got a dollar
option period and no earnestmoney.
If I'm not having a strongconversation, I might tell the
seller whatever they want tohear, just to get that under
contract.
And what really frustrates meon that side is the bad actors
that we talk about.
Those would be the ones thatare purposely tying up a
property for an extended periodof time with the intention that
(15:38):
they're going to retrade theseller down at a later date.
I've got a 10 or 15 day optionperiod to go get this contract
assigned.
I know I'm not getting itassigned for the price that I'm
trying to what I'm promising theseller.
So I know I'm coming back infive days and trying to retrade
them.
And that's the stuff I can'tstand.
Justin Bogard (15:58):
So the wholesaler has the wrong type of
motivational problems.
They don't really have cashflow, they have transactional
flow and that really affectsthem in this down market because
they're so competitive rightnow.
They're stepping over eachother and I think, fortunately,
a lot of them will kind of weedthemselves out.
The ones that are more what doyou want to say?
(16:20):
Fly by the night or insidehabit aside, hustle wholesaler,
those guys are going to go bythe way size anyways.
But it is difficult because Inoticed everyone has the sense
of urgency.
I'm doing air quotes here forthose of you that can't see me
right now.
Narrator (16:35):
And the sense of urgency is.
Justin Bogard (16:37):
I hate doing that because I back up and I say
wait a minute, I'm not fundingthis thing tomorrow, just so you
know, I'm going to need a fewdays and I'm going to have to
underwrite this a different way.
God deal, what was it four daysago?
I believe it was on Friday,right before the weekend.
The deal the investor says heylook, I've got a seller finance
transaction that I'm doing andthis property I sold for $90,000
(17:03):
.
I got like $10,000 down,whatever the terms were, maybe
15 years or so.
So it's like $780 payment amonth.
Okay, great, that all soundsgood.
You start digging into okay,what's the BPO value?
When's the last time you got anevaluation on it?
Okay, here it is, as is value55K.
Oh man, wow.
Okay, barely half I was like,hey, what's is this real here?
(17:25):
Oh yeah, but the future valueof it is after ARV it's gonna be
a hundred or hundred fifty.
I'm like, yeah, those are greatcosts, but what's what you know
as a lender?
Why would I assume that they'regonna actually fix it up?
What you know what?
What's their motivation there?
Would you they have more moneyto put down?
Like?
Is it the things that I try tocoach some of the Some of the
(17:46):
seller financiers out there thatare just trying to do this and
and over pad the numbers?
Because you know, yes, I do saythis out loud and I'll stand by
it.
You know you're providing apremium service by providing
premium financing.
So, yes, you can charge alittle bit more and, yes, you
can sell a little bit higher,but you can't double it.
You can't double it.
Brian Force (18:06):
And I think that that's yeah.
And to come back and talk aboutARV and things like that, I
mean you know you can use thatas an acquisition strategy.
You're hoping that you neverhave to take that property back
in the first place.
Justin Bogard (18:18):
But if you're the , if you're the borrower, that's
okay to have an ARV strategy,but when you're the lender,
that's not the value you'relooking at.
Brian Force (18:25):
Exactly.
That's not your strategy at all.
You're not gonna want to go andactually do with the
renovations and get it up tomarket value and all that you
know.
Justin Bogard (18:32):
Not not a whole different job.
I've lost plenty of moneytrying to do that.
I am not the expert in that atall.
Brian Force (18:38):
Exactly.
Yeah, I mean it is.
It's definitely an interestingtime Because I think we're
seeing that that same ideologyin several aspects of the
marketplace, in severaldifferent industries.
You know, I I am curious.
I think we're all waiting onbaited breath to see what
happens Q1, q2 of 2024, withrates, things like that, and how
(19:02):
that affects the, thecharacters and the players
inside the marketplace.
I agree with you, I think thatI Think it is only a matter of
time and I think it's alreadyhappening.
It's only a matter of timebefore the undedicated are
unskilled and in the aspect ofthe industry, they just aren't
able to to continue with theirbusiness model, if you even call
it a business model.
(19:22):
Yeah, when, when marketvolatility is so prominent, then
Expertise is what gets you towhere you're trying to go and
what helps you thrive in thatmarket.
So I do think you're going tosee this temporary Massive bid
ask in a lot of different areas,or just these crazy terms or
(19:44):
these Ideological definitionsaround value.
I think you'll start to seethose smooth themselves out over
the next 12 to 18 months.
Yeah, it's.
Justin Bogard (19:53):
I was trying to think of the word earlier and I
finally came to my mind hobbyistis what I was thinking, or yeah
, hobbyist wholesaler.
Brian Force (19:59):
Yeah, oh man, we agree, you have that in every
industry.
You've got the hobbyistwholesaler.
Up until you know, earlier thisyear for Pandemic, all through
2022, you had a lot of hobbyistreal estate agents that were
crushing it as well, and it'svery difficult as a hobbyist to
to really grow your business oreven to maintain it in periods
like this.
Justin Bogard (20:20):
So I saw a quote earlier today, just by half a
stance, and it said and I don'thave any validity that this is
actually true, but I do believeit's true because the number
makes sense to me, that it saysLike 95% of real estate
investors fail.
Mmm, and maybe that soundssteep, but I kind of believe it
because I've been in some ofthese seminar classes, because,
believe or not, I used to be aseminar junkie with this stuff
(20:42):
till I finally took action.
And a lot of these people arejust paying in this Absorbent
amount of money to learn theskill and the craft and then
they go out and they reallydon't do anything with it.
And so I, like I can see thesehobbyists now that are trying to
get into this End up fadingaway because they realized,
guess what this is, work this,it's not really passive when
you're active real estateinvestor.
Brian Force (21:03):
I mean, I hate to break the news for you, but
that's what I was gonna ask iswhat you're definitely, what the
definition there and thatnumber of failure is because
lack of action to me Is reallythe only failure.
Right, and I would definitelyagree with that number.
You can be a real estateinvestor, not make money on
every deal.
You can lose money on a dealand still not really fail.
If you're learning what not todo, then you're actually
succeeding long term.
(21:24):
So I would I mean, as a as aseminar, former seminar junkie,
still a mastermind junkie myselfas well I sit in a lot of rooms
, a lot of people that arelooking to learn.
What they're really looking tolearn is what is the way for me
to make really great money as areal estate investor While
(21:44):
taking almost no risk and notreally working my butt off, you
know, and like like this is abusiness, like this is a real
job, professional seminar goersor learners they are.
They are there in droves in thereal estate industry in all
aspects.
I think that's a fair number.
I think that 95% of people justfail to take massive action
(22:09):
Because it's scary.
But I'm a lot more scared oflooking back on my life and
realizing that I never did thethings that I wanted to do so.
Justin Bogard (22:17):
Put with that into perspective.
Just two things while you weretalking I just jogged my memory.
It's like two things that canoutbeat that pace, or being a
Chick-fil-A owner and being inthe restaurant business.
Brian Force (22:29):
Oh yeah, I can only imagine just barely.
I can only imagine.
Yeah, absolutely.
I have a pretty high risktolerance.
Being in the restaurantindustry is probably higher than
I'm willing to go.
I Was a bartender all throughcollege.
I put my school and I can'tunderstand how the back end
(22:49):
works and man, I, I Love, I lovebeing a patron.
I don't know that I could.
Justin Bogard (22:55):
I could be on the ownership side of the
restaurant business All right,brian, I'm gonna give you a
chance to do a one word thinghere, just because I've been
thinking about this all day,love, and I have nothing else to
do but think about this stuff.
So get, given the real estateeconomy that we're in right now,
get, given the difficultsituation of going through the
(23:15):
end of 19, early 20, 21, 22 andnow 23, and looking forward,
what is one word that woulddescribe how a real estate
investor should be, just intoday's environment, versus, you
know, the long stretch ofprobably, let's say, 13 to 18.
Where it was, you know, therewas just one, one rule.
It was, you know, buy it cheap.
Brian Force (23:38):
Opportunistic.
I think Opportunities are goingto be there Absolutely already
are.
I don't think that they will beFor the next couple of years.
I don't think that they will beas Straightforward as they
probably were in that in thetime that you're talking about
13 to 18, where you're lookingat basically you know, if you're
looking for rental properties,1% deal, lock it up all day.
(24:00):
You're you're going to need tobe an opportunist and I think
that comes in many differentforms.
Either you're going to realestate investors.
Now it's more important thanever to View your like, treat
your business and work yourbusiness like a business,
meaning you we're seeing this onthe multifamily side.
We're putting out LOI.
(24:20):
Is that that those deals aregetting locked up with a buyer
that went higher and falling outsix weeks Later, going with
another buyer who is stillhigher than us, falling out six
more leaks later.
Right, so we've got to be ontop of our game with our
follow-up, follow-up.
You're building a database onthe multifamily side, especially
of assets that you are, thatyou are looking to to acquire
and that might happen.
That could happen 12 monthsafter you originally toward and
(24:43):
put an LOI in just because itjust the buyers weren't able to
close.
We're unable to raise thecapital.
Something got in the way.
They tried to retrade them.
It fell out.
Seller decided not to sell.
Then the seller, you know,couldn't afford their rate cap
renewal premium, so they had tosell.
Like there's a story behindevery asset and if you're not
organized, you're not on top ofthings, you're not going to be
able to take advantage of asmany opportunities.
The same thing if you are aflipper right now we're talking
(25:05):
about the wholesale side beforethose deals are falling out like
crazy, people are locking upwholesale deals.
They're falling right back out.
By the way, those wholesalers,they're not even close on most
of their deals.
So if you're creating adatabase of addresses that
wholesalers have sent you andthey're falling out, 10 days
later you should be in the carknocking on every single one of
those doors, going direct toseller and saying, hey, I can
make your real offer andactually close in seven days.
(25:26):
But you've got to be way moreorganized because the deals, the
deals, might feel a little bitmore plentiful, but the bid-ask
spread is so wide right now thatyou're probably not locking up
dynamite home run deals Just inyour inbox like that.
You've got to build a database.
You've got to be following upand you've got to be ready to go
when that right deal comesalong.
(25:47):
Have your contract if you're aflipper, contractors, financing,
everything good to go lined upif you you know multifamily is a
whole different animal, but ingeneral, opportunistic is the
word you can't accidentallysucceed as an investor in this
environment.
The opportunities are there,but you need to be an
opportunist.
Justin Bogard (26:05):
I Love how you articulated all that.
That was a great, a great waythat you explained it, because
you're exactly right.
And During certain periods ofshort, certain periods of real
estate times here, you could goget your real estate license and
fall into selling a few housesand make a bunch of money and
you could be a mortgage loanofficer and you could have
Everybody and their brotherwanting to refi because the
(26:26):
rates were below 3% and everyonehad super appreciation and
tappable equity in their homesand it was easy to be a loan
officer.
Now, where are those guys at?
Brian Force (26:35):
I know there's mortgage lenders that were
making $750,000 a year.
That might not be in themortgage business next year, you
know, and that's not to saythey're not phenomenal people,
but yeah, there's really greatmarkets for certain industries
at times.
And then there are times wherethe opportunity is there.
But you've got to change yourapproach and your mindset and
the way you go about it.
Justin Bogard (26:55):
Yeah, you said exactly the word that I have
been trying to think of all dayis malleable, and so being
malleable in this business andany real estate business in
general you know the pivot wasused a lot in 2021, 2020, you
know.
But I say malleable and becauseI always have to be creative.
(27:16):
You're a very creative personas well.
You may not say that out loud,but I believe you to be a very
creative person because you havedifferent strategies and you
know how to navigate and youknow how to make money.
You smell out being anentrepreneur and you execute on
that Sure, and I think that'sthe only way you can be right
now and survive, and I thinkthat's how I think is what
normal is.
I haven't been in this realestate business too long.
I started in 2016, 2015-ishinto 15.
(27:39):
So I haven't seen all the upsand downs, but listening to my
mentors and hearing other peopletalk about that has been in a
lot longer than I have.
It's like you.
Definitely opportunistic is agreat word, and I would also say
malleable is another word thatI would use to describe yourself
that you have to be willing tobend and flex and move and be
created, and you know, pivot, asthey used to say, 100%.
Brian Force (27:58):
And I think it's just you know it comes down to
this is true in many forms oflife.
It comes down to a willingnessto face the objective reality of
what is happening and then, youknow, take action around it,
and at any speed.
I think is a great example ofthis.
You speak to him about the notebusiness.
You know he sees a shift in thenote business coming a million
(28:22):
miles away.
Justin Bogard (28:23):
Oh yeah Right.
Years before it happens, years.
Brian Force (28:26):
Years and he is a secular individual.
In that regard, he is theMichael Jordan of the note
industry, but he's also hedoesn't keep those things to
himself.
He will be the first onepreaching about any sort of
volatility or opportunity orshift in the market, and we do
(28:47):
that in, let's just say, thesingle family real estate
business, the sales business.
You can see a shift coming froma mile away when the Fed starts
hiking rates.
You know you know that thingsare going to shift, but it's one
thing to just talk about it andwe almost get embittered about
it, like we get annoyed thatthings aren't the way that they
(29:07):
used to be, like things shouldalways be the same all the time,
which is never going to be thecase.
If you look at the residentialsales business, home prices
nationwide have increased like40% or something like that, I
believe, since 2020.
I mean it's ridiculous.
Because that trend continued,every home would be worth $500
million in the next 15 years.
It obviously can't stay thesame like that for that long.
(29:30):
But when we see things coming,there's a little bit of a delay
between us seeing a market shiftand then us actually feeling
the tangible effects.
So we oftentimes talk aboutwhat's to come and then take no
action to prepare ourselves oreducate ourselves or look at
what we need to be doing tothrive in that new environment.
(29:50):
And then, all of a sudden, thisvery slow moving train that we
saw coming from a mile away getsright up next to our face and
we're still standing on thetracks.
It's like, guys, if you startcoming from that long, be
malleable.
You've got to learn the nextstrategy, you've got to learn to
adapt, and I think that's whatpeople like Eddie Speed do very,
very well.
Justin Bogard (30:08):
Absolutely, brian .
Thank you so much for being onthe podcast today.
We really appreciate yourinsights.
I hope to have you on againbecause I'd love to continue
this conversation and dive intosome other subject matter with
you, because I think you have alot of expertise that you can
bring to the audience todefinitely give it a different
point of view that not a lot ofus think of.
So I really appreciate that andagain, man, thanks for being on
.
I appreciate all the hard workyou guys do in your podcast.
(30:30):
It's really good.
One more time, go ahead andplug in both your podcasts there
.
Brian Force (30:33):
Yeah, likewise, brother, thanks for having me on
.
You can find us, the only realestate podcast worth listening
to.
Literally just Google that.
You'll find it everywhere, it'spretty easy to find and the
More Doors podcast.
Check both those out If you'relooking to talk single family or
multi-family whatever.
We kind of cruise around allthose.
So thank you so much for havingme on, brother.
(30:54):
I look forward to doing itagain soon.
Justin Bogard (30:56):
All right, man, don't forget to check us out,
listener, on our YouTube channel, american Notebuyers YouTube
channel.
This is episode number 24 ofseason five.
I'm Justin Bogard, my guesthere, brian Force, and we'll
catch you guys in the nextepisode, see you later.
Narrator (31:13):
Thanks for listening to Be the Bank.
We hope you learned somethingfrom today's show.
If you enjoyed this episode,please rate and review us.
Plus, check out our channel onYouTube and follow us on
Facebook and Twitter at Be theBank, and on Instagram at Be the
Bank podcast.
Be the Bank is sponsored byAmerican Notebuyers.
Thanks again for listening.
Interested in real estate.
How about wealth?
Well, they go hand in hand, andhere you'll learn all about it.
Welcome to Be the Bank, apodcast where we discuss and
debate the topics centeredaround real estate investing.
Your host, justin Bogart,shares insights into investing
in real estate to create realwealth and passive income for
(00:22):
you and your family.
He'll share stories of realestate investments done right,
take you through the process ofowning a real estate note and,
most importantly, educate you soyou can be the bank.
This is Be the Bank brought toyou by American Notebuyers.
Now here's your host, justinBogart.
Justin Bogard (00:45):
Hey, hey, listeners, Justin Bogart here
and welcome to another episodeof the Be the Bank, number 24
this season, on season number 5.
Man, we only got a coupleepisodes left to end the season.
Woohoo, Our special guest.
His name is Brian Force.
You guys are going to love thisguy.
He's got a ton of energy, he'syounger than me and he knows
quite a bit about real estate.
So you ought to listen to himwhen he talks.
(01:06):
And we're going to be bringingup the fact about kind of
sketchy people in our businessand just kind of watching out
for the bad actors.
So you're going to love thisepisode, so stay tuned, Brian.
(01:26):
What's happening, buddy?
What's up, brother?
How are you Doing?
Very well, it is decidingwhether it's going to cool down
or heat up here in Indiana.
So our weather is typicallyaround this time, probably about
20 degrees in the morning, upto about 50, mid-50s in the
afternoon, and right now it'sstill hovering in the mid-60s,
even though it's 70s or a fewdays here.
(01:48):
So I'm afraid that we're goingto, the frost is going to come
in, and just you know nip it tothe… I was going to say is this
maybe like?
Brian Force (01:53):
I got to look on my phone here?
Is this maybe the first timethat we're on that?
Is it like colder than whenyou're at?
We're at?
No, we're at 65 right now.
This is pretty normal for Texasin November, though we might
get up to 100 a few more timesthis year, who knows?
Justin Bogard (02:07):
It's nice to be you man, oh man.
Brian Force (02:09):
Well still, you can still go play golf in December
here, so that's not a bad thing.
Justin Bogard (02:13):
Man, I love playing golf.
If I could play golf every day,I would, I really would.
Brian Force (02:18):
It's charity tournament season around here,
because it's a little cheaper toplay.
Right now it's a charitytournament, so it seems like
every week that's awesome.
Justin Bogard (02:26):
So what do you play down there?
Do they have links courses oris it wooded courses?
Brian Force (02:32):
Oh man, we've got a little bit of it.
Texas, north Texas area, iskind of a mecca for golf so
we've got like they'll pull outall the stops.
So we have like a really greatlike links course called the
Tribute, which is a very kind oflike nationally renowned links
course around here all the wayup to like I live right down the
road from the new PGA resort,which I've not had the pleasure
(02:53):
of playing yet, but it'sincredible from what I hear.
So I mean it's we got everyflavor and delicacy of golf
course around here you couldpossibly imagine.
Man, it's pretty awesome.
Justin Bogard (03:04):
I would love to lose all my golf balls down
there.
That sounds like a lot of fun.
And don't I know it 18 holes,18 golf balls gone.
It's an expensive sport but wekeep coming back from work as
we're glutton for punishment.
Brian Force (03:15):
Exactly, brother.
Justin Bogard (03:16):
All right.
So for the for listening andviewing audience here well,
actually listening audience ifyou didn't know, we have a
YouTube channel American notebuyers YouTube channel.
You come over and check us outand you can see the video feed
of today's episode.
And so Brian and I don't knoweach other for a very long time,
but we do know each other andour commonality factor is
actually his father, and so hisfather is heavily in the note
(03:37):
business right now and heactually has a mentor, eddie
Speed, who's who's my mentor aswell.
And so that's kind of how wemet.
And so Brian and I met becausehis dad, tom, brought him to a
mastermind that I was at with mybusiness partner, richard,
who's usually on the on the show, but we kicked him off today
just because you know he's, hegot in trouble with HR, so he's
(03:57):
just not allowed to be on theday.
That's his punishment, but yeah, so Brian and I got to meet at
the mastermind.
We kind of hit it off.
I kind of know a little bitabout his story, which he's
going to share today, and we'regoing to get into some fun
topics.
But, brian, why don't you goahead and just kind of set the,
set the table here with as faras, like you know, what have you
been doing in real estate sofar?
And I definitely want to plugyour podcast because I want to
(04:19):
make sure people are going tosubscribe to your podcast.
Sure.
Brian Force (04:22):
Absolutely.
Thanks, man, it's.
It's fun to be on this side ofthings for for the first time in
a while.
Justin Bogard (04:27):
I'm using the one-up Instead of posting you're
, you're guesting right.
Brian Force (04:29):
Yeah, exactly, it's a totally different flavor.
So my name is Brian force I.
I've been in real estate forabout 13 years now.
It just I guess, if you countbeing a licensed real estate
professional been wholesalingand stuff since I was about 19
years old, so maybe more, likeyou know, 16, 17 years.
I currently run a real estatesales team with Keller Williams
(04:54):
that's the Livian DFW team.
We're blessed enough to doabout 350 home sales last year.
I run a home word propertymanagement we should co-founded
a couple of years ago.
We manage about 400 residentialdoors across North Texas now
and run a multi-familysyndication company called deep
blue capital.
We did our first acquisitionearlier this year.
(05:18):
That market we're trying toacquire more and more right now,
but the multi-family space isvery interesting right now.
So I've naturally have spreadmyself pretty thin in my in my
real estate endeavors and then Ialso co-host two podcasts.
One is the only real estatepodcast worth listening to.
We've been doing that for aboutsix years.
(05:40):
We're very fortunate to be oneof the Inman News's top 25 real
estate podcasts in 2022.
Yeah, and even though thatone's called the only one worth
listening to, I do do anotherone.
That's our multi-family podcastcalled the more doors podcast.
We just started that oneearlier this year.
It's been phenomenal.
It's been.
I've met so many amazing peopleand operators and investors
(06:01):
through that podcast.
It's been very, very, very cool.
So that's a little bit about me.
I'm perpetually exhausted fromall the things I get myself into
, but I absolutely love it.
Justin Bogard (06:13):
I can say I hadn't listened to the other
podcasts you mentioned about themulti-family syndication.
Well one, obviously I'm in thenote business so I'm not really
looking at multi-family stuffthat often.
But you know the name was tooshort Exactly the only real
estate business you'll everlisten to.
It seems like a very long nameand so I figured you know you
got to listen to it.
(06:33):
If you have to read a paragraphto describe the name of the
podcast.
Brian Force (06:37):
We have made a name for ourselves, doing, I think,
everything the exact opposite ofwhat a successful podcast
should do.
We made the name too long.
Uh, we do it live and we neveredit it.
We barely market it.
To be honest with you.
It just we have a good networkof people that that are we're
blessed enough that they shareit out and it's growing.
(06:59):
It's gained a major followingand I don't think that we're
definitely not starting anonline course in how to be
professional podcasters anytimesoon.
I think we're very lucky tohave success that we've had,
because I think we've doneeverything wrong that they tell
you to do to grow a podcast.
Somehow it works.
Justin Bogard (07:14):
Well, it's a really cool podcast.
It's it's you guys done a greatjob with it.
You're you're two co-hosts Um,they do a great job as well, so
it's really fun.
I really encourage you guys tocheck it out Both podcasts,
obviously, but the the main one.
I listened to it and I also sawit on Facebook live the other
day too, when it just popped upuh, just cause we're friends on
Facebook, so that's how I saw itwas live.
It's really cool how you gotthe setup.
(07:35):
You know you got differentcamera positions going, you got
some, you got a great video, uh,person on demand and and the
post production of it as well.
Brian Force (07:42):
So it's really cool , you know what I think is
really, and you know and, andwe'll you know I won't dwell on
this too long, but I've alwayssaid that the podcast that we do
is a very good, uh, visualmetaphor for just the growth of
any type of venture or businessor whatever.
If you look at, I'm actuallysitting in our studio today but
I'm not hooked into our normalequipment, so I might sound a
(08:02):
little different.
We've got a very, very, veryprofessional setup now.
Um, which is awesome.
We sound good.
We have an engineer that thatruns the whole show.
Um, it's fantastic.
We actually, uh, we, we run thestudio as a separate, uh, a
separate company now, tourstudios, uh, tour to TOR the
only real estate that's kind ofour brand now tour studios uh,
produces several podcasts now.
(08:23):
So we actually have monetizedthat aspect of it.
But it started with, uh, me andmy co-hosts and a free zoom
account and that was it sixyears ago.
We had no idea what we weredoing.
If you go back and watch theold stuff, uh, the only thing
that we did right was put it onour calendars for Wednesday at 3
(08:44):
PM and never miss it.
And I think that that's such aa testament to what just
commitment over the longterm cando for you in any venture,
because we had no idea thisthing would get as, as big as it
has.
Um, but we didn't care.
3 PM on Wednesday, we werealways there to do it.
I think if you, if you takethat ideology into any business
venture, it's going to be reallydifficult not to be successful
(09:06):
if you're, if you're justconsistent and looks like you
guys have a lot of fun too, andthat's what I think's important
about podcasting.
Justin Bogard (09:11):
You know, it's about having fun and just having
a discussion debate.
Brian Force (09:15):
Yeah, exactly, it's a blast man that makes it.
That makes it way easy to keepcoming back.
It's awesome.
Justin Bogard (09:22):
Well, hey, man, today there's a subject matter
that I kind of wanted to getinto and typically what I do
with Richard and I.
We have something that happensto one of us during the week or
the previous week and we justkind of bring it up and talk
about it and it's kind of coolto be a fly on the wall.
You'd listen to her here aregoing to get to hear us go back
and forth on just a subjectmatter that we either may both
agree on when we lightly agreeon, maybe we disagree on.
So it's just kind of fun to goback and forth.
(09:42):
And so what I see lately andwhen I say lately, this is going
to be a loose a timeline hereby about a year is when this
economy kind of struggles inreal estate from my point of
view obviously I'm the noteinvestor guy here I'm seeing a
lot of people present to medeals.
I'm seeing them present medeals with like overinflation of
the actual real property value.
(10:03):
I think a lot of people gotreally excited during COVID and
they saw appreciation to shootthrough the roof and I am
looking at a deal, regardless ofwhat the unpaid balance is,
before I buy this note.
But I also want to know theproperty value is, and if I
notice that the property valueis severely overinflated from
what the note value is, you know, it's kind of a red flag to me.
(10:23):
I think sometimes they oversellthis thing.
So I just want to kind of startthis conversation, set the
table of, like you know, we'llcall this the poser mentality
when it comes to setting awholesale price.
Like I know, when I gotingrained into real estate
investing, the first thing theysaid is like don't trust a
wholesalers value.
You know, don't.
Regardless of who they are, youneed to do your own valuation
on it and get an idea.
Don't, don't trust theirnumbers, you need to run your
(10:45):
numbers, and so that definitelyholds true in what I'm doing
today.
Brian Force (10:50):
Yeah, 100% man, and you see it in the note business
.
I think one of the most visualgood metaphors that a lot of
investors would resonate with ismaybe, like the single family
wholesale business, right, justbecause that's you know, for the
longest time, and so I used toflip, you know, several houses a
year I don't as much anymorejust because the market got
(11:12):
really tight the last few years.
It was, it was Uber competitive, and whenever things are
continuously trending north likethey were up until middle of
2022, it can be difficult tocompete and I only have so much
time in the day.
So, yeah, what I noticed isthat most wholesale deals I mean
they didn't even make it to myinbox before somebody was buying
them.
Now I'm getting 20 or 30 a week, but, as you said, the numbers,
(11:33):
knowing what I know about theNorth Texas real estate market
and having done this for aliving for so long, I can
identify what an ARV is going tobe before I even pull up the
MLS to verify comps and they'rejust not really even close.
And as a wholesaler it's a youknow or as any sales
professional, let's say it's avery human thing to give in that
(11:53):
urge to really try to make acase for the maximum value of an
asset, and so you'll see someof these supporting documents or
CMAs or things like that thathave comps that are nowhere near
the most relevant, probably waytoo old to be to be considered.
You know the best comparablesand you just see wholesalers
making a case for a value that,as a professional, I know is
(12:16):
absolutely inflated from wheretoday's market's at so one.
It's obviously why you're, whyyou are tasked with being a
consummate professional on yourend, having a mechanism to run
your own numbers and do your own.
That's why they call it duediligence.
It is your job to verify thosethings.
I think it's a responsibilityyou know, and I would encourage
anybody that's you know lookingat.
You know whether it is notes,multifamily, single family,
(12:39):
whatever your intentions are.
You'll take the flippingbusiness, for example.
You know I'm making offers onstuff because I'm getting so
many more deals in my inboxright now that aren't even close
to what the wholesaler isasking for, right, and I have no
shame or doubt in that I'm notgoing to get as many deals if I
was just going with what theywere asking.
But I actually believe this tomy core.
(13:02):
I believe that buyers that canclose, savvy investors that have
an education and know whatthey're doing and have a track
record and have experience.
We have an actual I mean weactually have a responsibility
to drive the market with ouractivity Meaning.
If I talk about this a littlebit, on the multifamily side,
we're not able to get deals topencil.
(13:22):
So sometimes you know, mypartners won't even want to put
an LOI in.
I say no, we got to put an LOIin, because if we put an LOI in
and every other person, everyother group that's underwriting
and penciling this deal at thesame number that we are, puts an
LOI in, well, what do you thinkthat seller is going to feel
whenever they get 15 LOIs thatare a heck of a lot more
realistic in what their whisperprice is right?
(13:44):
Are they going to be obstinateor are they going to come around
and start to have a realisticconversation with the broker on
the state of the market, whattheir DISPO strategy is and
whether or not it makes sense tostick to their whisper price or
to come down?
But if we don't get in the game, the game never moves.
There's no momentum in anydirection, and so in these types
of when the market shiftsreally quickly.
(14:07):
You're going to have a lot oftimes an end user there who is
disbowing an asset whetherthey're selling a note, they're
selling a multifamily asset,they're selling a single family
house.
They're going to have adifferent perspective for a
while on what asset values looklike than what the buyers on the
other side are going to want topay.
The bid-ask spread is going toopen up pretty wide when you
(14:30):
have a quickly shifting marketlike we saw, really beginning in
the middle of 2020 or 2022, I'msorry.
And so in the middle therethere's going to be people that
are always going to be some badactors for sure.
Like you said before, there'salso going to be a lot of people
, if you look especially on thesingle family wholesale side
(14:52):
just people that aren't havingstrong conversations, just
wholesalers that are just makingpromises to a seller or a
homeowner that there's just nota chance of heck they're going
to be able to keep, because theywant that dopamine hit of
getting a deal under contractand they'll usually have no skin
in the game whatsoever.
Exactly, they're like I'llfigure it out on the other side
(15:15):
and if I'm playing with housemoney because I've got a dollar
option period and no earnestmoney.
If I'm not having a strongconversation, I might tell the
seller whatever they want tohear, just to get that under
contract.
And what really frustrates meon that side is the bad actors
that we talk about.
Those would be the ones thatare purposely tying up a
property for an extended periodof time with the intention that
(15:38):
they're going to retrade theseller down at a later date.
I've got a 10 or 15 day optionperiod to go get this contract
assigned.
I know I'm not getting itassigned for the price that I'm
trying to what I'm promising theseller.
So I know I'm coming back infive days and trying to retrade
them.
And that's the stuff I can'tstand.
Justin Bogard (15:58):
So the wholesaler has the wrong type of
motivational problems.
They don't really have cashflow, they have transactional
flow and that really affectsthem in this down market because
they're so competitive rightnow.
They're stepping over eachother and I think, fortunately,
a lot of them will kind of weedthemselves out.
The ones that are more what doyou want to say?
(16:20):
Fly by the night or insidehabit aside, hustle wholesaler,
those guys are going to go bythe way size anyways.
But it is difficult because Inoticed everyone has the sense
of urgency.
I'm doing air quotes here forthose of you that can't see me
right now.
Narrator (16:35):
And the sense of urgency is.
Justin Bogard (16:37):
I hate doing that because I back up and I say
wait a minute, I'm not fundingthis thing tomorrow, just so you
know, I'm going to need a fewdays and I'm going to have to
underwrite this a different way.
God deal, what was it four daysago?
I believe it was on Friday,right before the weekend.
The deal the investor says heylook, I've got a seller finance
transaction that I'm doing andthis property I sold for $90,000
(17:03):
.
I got like $10,000 down,whatever the terms were, maybe
15 years or so.
So it's like $780 payment amonth.
Okay, great, that all soundsgood.
You start digging into okay,what's the BPO value?
When's the last time you got anevaluation on it?
Okay, here it is, as is value55K.
Oh man, wow.
Okay, barely half I was like,hey, what's is this real here?
(17:25):
Oh yeah, but the future valueof it is after ARV it's gonna be
a hundred or hundred fifty.
I'm like, yeah, those are greatcosts, but what's what you know
as a lender?
Why would I assume that they'regonna actually fix it up?
What you know what?
What's their motivation there?
Would you they have more moneyto put down?
Like?
Is it the things that I try tocoach some of the Some of the
(17:46):
seller financiers out there thatare just trying to do this and
and over pad the numbers?
Because you know, yes, I do saythis out loud and I'll stand by
it.
You know you're providing apremium service by providing
premium financing.
So, yes, you can charge alittle bit more and, yes, you
can sell a little bit higher,but you can't double it.
You can't double it.
Brian Force (18:06):
And I think that that's yeah.
And to come back and talk aboutARV and things like that, I
mean you know you can use thatas an acquisition strategy.
You're hoping that you neverhave to take that property back
in the first place.
Justin Bogard (18:18):
But if you're the , if you're the borrower, that's
okay to have an ARV strategy,but when you're the lender,
that's not the value you'relooking at.
Brian Force (18:25):
Exactly.
That's not your strategy at all.
You're not gonna want to go andactually do with the
renovations and get it up tomarket value and all that you
know.
Justin Bogard (18:32):
Not not a whole different job.
I've lost plenty of moneytrying to do that.
I am not the expert in that atall.
Brian Force (18:38):
Exactly.
Yeah, I mean it is.
It's definitely an interestingtime Because I think we're
seeing that that same ideologyin several aspects of the
marketplace, in severaldifferent industries.
You know, I I am curious.
I think we're all waiting onbaited breath to see what
happens Q1, q2 of 2024, withrates, things like that, and how
(19:02):
that affects the, thecharacters and the players
inside the marketplace.
I agree with you, I think thatI Think it is only a matter of
time and I think it's alreadyhappening.
It's only a matter of timebefore the undedicated are
unskilled and in the aspect ofthe industry, they just aren't
able to to continue with theirbusiness model, if you even call
it a business model.
(19:22):
Yeah, when, when marketvolatility is so prominent, then
Expertise is what gets you towhere you're trying to go and
what helps you thrive in thatmarket.
So I do think you're going tosee this temporary Massive bid
ask in a lot of different areas,or just these crazy terms or
(19:44):
these Ideological definitionsaround value.
I think you'll start to seethose smooth themselves out over
the next 12 to 18 months.
Yeah, it's.
Justin Bogard (19:53):
I was trying to think of the word earlier and I
finally came to my mind hobbyistis what I was thinking, or yeah
, hobbyist wholesaler.
Brian Force (19:59):
Yeah, oh man, we agree, you have that in every
industry.
You've got the hobbyistwholesaler.
Up until you know, earlier thisyear for Pandemic, all through
2022, you had a lot of hobbyistreal estate agents that were
crushing it as well, and it'svery difficult as a hobbyist to
to really grow your business oreven to maintain it in periods
like this.
Justin Bogard (20:20):
So I saw a quote earlier today, just by half a
stance, and it said and I don'thave any validity that this is
actually true, but I do believeit's true because the number
makes sense to me, that it saysLike 95% of real estate
investors fail.
Mmm, and maybe that soundssteep, but I kind of believe it
because I've been in some ofthese seminar classes, because,
believe or not, I used to be aseminar junkie with this stuff
(20:42):
till I finally took action.
And a lot of these people arejust paying in this Absorbent
amount of money to learn theskill and the craft and then
they go out and they reallydon't do anything with it.
And so I, like I can see thesehobbyists now that are trying to
get into this End up fadingaway because they realized,
guess what this is, work this,it's not really passive when
you're active real estateinvestor.
Brian Force (21:03):
I mean, I hate to break the news for you, but
that's what I was gonna ask iswhat you're definitely, what the
definition there and thatnumber of failure is because
lack of action to me Is reallythe only failure.
Right, and I would definitelyagree with that number.
You can be a real estateinvestor, not make money on
every deal.
You can lose money on a dealand still not really fail.
If you're learning what not todo, then you're actually
succeeding long term.
(21:24):
So I would I mean, as a as aseminar, former seminar junkie,
still a mastermind junkie myselfas well I sit in a lot of rooms
, a lot of people that arelooking to learn.
What they're really looking tolearn is what is the way for me
to make really great money as areal estate investor While
(21:44):
taking almost no risk and notreally working my butt off, you
know, and like like this is abusiness, like this is a real
job, professional seminar goersor learners they are.
They are there in droves in thereal estate industry in all
aspects.
I think that's a fair number.
I think that 95% of people justfail to take massive action
(22:09):
Because it's scary.
But I'm a lot more scared oflooking back on my life and
realizing that I never did thethings that I wanted to do so.
Justin Bogard (22:17):
Put with that into perspective.
Just two things while you weretalking I just jogged my memory.
It's like two things that canoutbeat that pace, or being a
Chick-fil-A owner and being inthe restaurant business.
Brian Force (22:29):
Oh yeah, I can only imagine just barely.
I can only imagine.
Yeah, absolutely.
I have a pretty high risktolerance.
Being in the restaurantindustry is probably higher than
I'm willing to go.
I Was a bartender all throughcollege.
I put my school and I can'tunderstand how the back end
(22:49):
works and man, I, I Love, I lovebeing a patron.
I don't know that I could.
Justin Bogard (22:55):
I could be on the ownership side of the
restaurant business All right,brian, I'm gonna give you a
chance to do a one word thinghere, just because I've been
thinking about this all day,love, and I have nothing else to
do but think about this stuff.
So get, given the real estateeconomy that we're in right now,
get, given the difficultsituation of going through the
(23:15):
end of 19, early 20, 21, 22 andnow 23, and looking forward,
what is one word that woulddescribe how a real estate
investor should be, just intoday's environment, versus, you
know, the long stretch ofprobably, let's say, 13 to 18.
Where it was, you know, therewas just one, one rule.
It was, you know, buy it cheap.
Brian Force (23:38):
Opportunistic.
I think Opportunities are goingto be there Absolutely already
are.
I don't think that they will beFor the next couple of years.
I don't think that they will beas Straightforward as they
probably were in that in thetime that you're talking about
13 to 18, where you're lookingat basically you know, if you're
looking for rental properties,1% deal, lock it up all day.
(24:00):
You're you're going to need tobe an opportunist and I think
that comes in many differentforms.
Either you're going to realestate investors.
Now it's more important thanever to View your like, treat
your business and work yourbusiness like a business,
meaning you we're seeing this onthe multifamily side.
We're putting out LOI.
(24:20):
Is that that those deals aregetting locked up with a buyer
that went higher and falling outsix weeks Later, going with
another buyer who is stillhigher than us, falling out six
more leaks later.
Right, so we've got to be ontop of our game with our
follow-up, follow-up.
You're building a database onthe multifamily side, especially
of assets that you are, thatyou are looking to to acquire
and that might happen.
That could happen 12 monthsafter you originally toward and
(24:43):
put an LOI in just because itjust the buyers weren't able to
close.
We're unable to raise thecapital.
Something got in the way.
They tried to retrade them.
It fell out.
Seller decided not to sell.
Then the seller, you know,couldn't afford their rate cap
renewal premium, so they had tosell.
Like there's a story behindevery asset and if you're not
organized, you're not on top ofthings, you're not going to be
able to take advantage of asmany opportunities.
The same thing if you are aflipper right now we're talking
(25:05):
about the wholesale side beforethose deals are falling out like
crazy, people are locking upwholesale deals.
They're falling right back out.
By the way, those wholesalers,they're not even close on most
of their deals.
So if you're creating adatabase of addresses that
wholesalers have sent you andthey're falling out, 10 days
later you should be in the carknocking on every single one of
those doors, going direct toseller and saying, hey, I can
make your real offer andactually close in seven days.
(25:26):
But you've got to be way moreorganized because the deals, the
deals, might feel a little bitmore plentiful, but the bid-ask
spread is so wide right now thatyou're probably not locking up
dynamite home run deals Just inyour inbox like that.
You've got to build a database.
You've got to be following upand you've got to be ready to go
when that right deal comesalong.
(25:47):
Have your contract if you're aflipper, contractors, financing,
everything good to go lined upif you you know multifamily is a
whole different animal, but ingeneral, opportunistic is the
word you can't accidentallysucceed as an investor in this
environment.
The opportunities are there,but you need to be an
opportunist.
Justin Bogard (26:05):
I Love how you articulated all that.
That was a great, a great waythat you explained it, because
you're exactly right.
And During certain periods ofshort, certain periods of real
estate times here, you could goget your real estate license and
fall into selling a few housesand make a bunch of money and
you could be a mortgage loanofficer and you could have
Everybody and their brotherwanting to refi because the
(26:26):
rates were below 3% and everyonehad super appreciation and
tappable equity in their homesand it was easy to be a loan
officer.
Now, where are those guys at?
Brian Force (26:35):
I know there's mortgage lenders that were
making $750,000 a year.
That might not be in themortgage business next year, you
know, and that's not to saythey're not phenomenal people,
but yeah, there's really greatmarkets for certain industries
at times.
And then there are times wherethe opportunity is there.
But you've got to change yourapproach and your mindset and
the way you go about it.
Justin Bogard (26:55):
Yeah, you said exactly the word that I have
been trying to think of all dayis malleable, and so being
malleable in this business andany real estate business in
general you know the pivot wasused a lot in 2021, 2020, you
know.
But I say malleable and becauseI always have to be creative.
(27:16):
You're a very creative personas well.
You may not say that out loud,but I believe you to be a very
creative person because you havedifferent strategies and you
know how to navigate and youknow how to make money.
You smell out being anentrepreneur and you execute on
that Sure, and I think that'sthe only way you can be right
now and survive, and I thinkthat's how I think is what
normal is.
I haven't been in this realestate business too long.
I started in 2016, 2015-ishinto 15.
(27:39):
So I haven't seen all the upsand downs, but listening to my
mentors and hearing other peopletalk about that has been in a
lot longer than I have.
It's like you.
Definitely opportunistic is agreat word, and I would also say
malleable is another word thatI would use to describe yourself
that you have to be willing tobend and flex and move and be
created, and you know, pivot, asthey used to say, 100%.
Brian Force (27:58):
And I think it's just you know it comes down to
this is true in many forms oflife.
It comes down to a willingnessto face the objective reality of
what is happening and then, youknow, take action around it,
and at any speed.
I think is a great example ofthis.
You speak to him about the notebusiness.
You know he sees a shift in thenote business coming a million
(28:22):
miles away.
Justin Bogard (28:23):
Oh yeah Right.
Years before it happens, years.
Brian Force (28:26):
Years and he is a secular individual.
In that regard, he is theMichael Jordan of the note
industry, but he's also hedoesn't keep those things to
himself.
He will be the first onepreaching about any sort of
volatility or opportunity orshift in the market, and we do
(28:47):
that in, let's just say, thesingle family real estate
business, the sales business.
You can see a shift coming froma mile away when the Fed starts
hiking rates.
You know you know that thingsare going to shift, but it's one
thing to just talk about it andwe almost get embittered about
it, like we get annoyed thatthings aren't the way that they
(29:07):
used to be, like things shouldalways be the same all the time,
which is never going to be thecase.
If you look at the residentialsales business, home prices
nationwide have increased like40% or something like that, I
believe, since 2020.
I mean it's ridiculous.
Because that trend continued,every home would be worth $500
million in the next 15 years.
It obviously can't stay thesame like that for that long.
(29:30):
But when we see things coming,there's a little bit of a delay
between us seeing a market shiftand then us actually feeling
the tangible effects.
So we oftentimes talk aboutwhat's to come and then take no
action to prepare ourselves oreducate ourselves or look at
what we need to be doing tothrive in that new environment.
(29:50):
And then, all of a sudden, thisvery slow moving train that we
saw coming from a mile away getsright up next to our face and
we're still standing on thetracks.
It's like, guys, if you startcoming from that long, be
malleable.
You've got to learn the nextstrategy, you've got to learn to
adapt, and I think that's whatpeople like Eddie Speed do very,
very well.
Justin Bogard (30:08):
Absolutely, brian .
Thank you so much for being onthe podcast today.
We really appreciate yourinsights.
I hope to have you on againbecause I'd love to continue
this conversation and dive intosome other subject matter with
you, because I think you have alot of expertise that you can
bring to the audience todefinitely give it a different
point of view that not a lot ofus think of.
So I really appreciate that andagain, man, thanks for being on
.
I appreciate all the hard workyou guys do in your podcast.
(30:30):
It's really good.
One more time, go ahead andplug in both your podcasts there
.
Brian Force (30:33):
Yeah, likewise, brother, thanks for having me on
.
You can find us, the only realestate podcast worth listening
to.
Literally just Google that.
You'll find it everywhere, it'spretty easy to find and the
More Doors podcast.
Check both those out If you'relooking to talk single family or
multi-family whatever.
We kind of cruise around allthose.
So thank you so much for havingme on, brother.
(30:54):
I look forward to doing itagain soon.
Justin Bogard (30:56):
All right, man, don't forget to check us out,
listener, on our YouTube channel, american Notebuyers YouTube
channel.
This is episode number 24 ofseason five.
I'm Justin Bogard, my guesthere, brian Force, and we'll
catch you guys in the nextepisode, see you later.
Narrator (31:13):
Thanks for listening to Be the Bank.
We hope you learned somethingfrom today's show.
If you enjoyed this episode,please rate and review us.
Plus, check out our channel onYouTube and follow us on
Facebook and Twitter at Be theBank, and on Instagram at Be the
Bank podcast.
Be the Bank is sponsored byAmerican Notebuyers.
Thanks again for listening.
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