August 20, 2025 • 42 mins
What would you attempt if you knew you couldn't fail? This question lies at the heart of entrepreneurship, where fear often becomes the invisible barrier between where we are and where we want to be.
Jay Doran, culture expert and founder of Culture Matters, takes us on a journey through the complex relationship between fear and organizational culture. "When I'm not sharing my vision out of fear, I'm not showing up as the best version of myself," Jay reveals, highlighting how personal limitations directly impact business outcomes. The conversation explores how fear can both motivate and paralyze, and how successful entrepreneurs learn to harness it productively.
The origin story of Culture Matters unfolds as Jay shares his transformation from an anxious, overwhelmed entrepreneur to a passionate advocate for value-driven organizations. After discovering a book about The Container Store's founding principles during a moment of anxiety, Jay implemented core values in his first business venture and witnessed remarkable changes in team behavior. This experience revealed his gift for teaching and set him on a path to help other businesses discover their cultural foundations.
As businesses grow, they face an interesting challenge: transitioning from fear-based motivation to value-driven culture. Jay and Maria discuss how defining vision, mission, and values creates a foundation that sustains motivation beyond fear. This process of making implicit values explicit gives organizations direction and purpose that transcends individual anxieties.
The conversation takes a powerful turn when Jay shares his experience interviewing Dr. Jordan Peterson, describing how preparation allowed him to balance fan excitement with professional responsibility. "To become a hero, you must meet your heroes," Jay observes, emphasizing the importance of mentorship in entrepreneurial journeys.
Whether you're just starting your business or leading an established organization, this conversation offers valuable insights on overcoming fear, building authentic culture, developing self-awareness, and nurturing the relationships that sustain entrepreneurial success. As Maria's podcast name suggests, the ultimate goal is to "Be the Solution" – for your customers, your team, and yourself.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Maria Quattrone (00:00):
I am super excited today.
I am Maria Patron, and this isthe Be the Solution podcast.
Today I have a very specialguest.
If you don't know him, you needto get to know him.
This is Jay Duran, culture man.
True, jay's all about culture,but Jay and I have gone back now
well over a decade and we'vehad a very interesting,
(00:25):
interesting relationship overthe last decade in a very good
way, and so I'm very excited tohave jay back on the show today.
Jay, so this morning I wasthinking about because I was
inspired by you doing it boats,so I start doing it.
Jay Doran (00:43):
Oh, that's awesome, so this is the quote I I picked
for you today the quotes.
Maria Quattrone (00:44):
so I start doing the quotes.
Oh, that's awesome.
So this is the quote I pickedfor you today the only thing we
have to fear is fear itself.
Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
Jay Doran (00:54):
Wow.
Maria Quattrone (00:55):
The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
Thanks, you're welcome.
That quote, though, issomething that resonates with me
because I think that well, forme anyway, think about what
holds you back.
If you knew you would not fail,what would you attempt to do?
And if we think about it, mostpeople stop or don't get started
(01:21):
because of fear.
The fear of what if?
In a good way and in a bad way.
The fear of what if?
What if I actually amsuccessful in this endeavor?
What if I'm not successful?
But I think it's more of whatif I am.
Jay Doran (01:35):
Anyway, I love the topic because I think it's an
honor to be here and an honor tohave the relationship and work
together over all these years inso many different contexts, and
I think it's such a that couldbe a book really, um, really,
but it's an honor to be on bethe solution.
I love the idea and I'minspired by the idea of being a
(01:57):
solution and I love the quotefdr that was the.
I don't know a lot about hisstory, but wasn't he
instrumental, I think, in World?
Maria Quattrone (02:08):
War.
Jay Doran (02:09):
II and all of that, the New Deal.
And he was in a wheelchair atone point, I think FDR Franklin,
because there's anotherRoosevelt that I get confused
sometimes.
I think they were related, butI'm inspired by both.
I don't know enough about FDR,but I love the quote because I
think fear undermines cultureactually.
Sure, it's an interesting placeto start inspired by it.
Maria Quattrone (02:34):
Fear does undermine culture, but yet fear
is not real.
Well, fear, it's not reallyreal, but it is real.
Jay Doran (02:46):
There are things could go wrong, and it's it's.
It's like self-awareness andfear have a relationship Like
the more the more.
Like that's where, because,think about it, if I'm not
thinking about the consequences,I might just need exactly what
I need to move into the, to moveinto action, whereas if I get
(03:10):
stunted like I'd be stunted bythinking about all the different
things that could happen, solike fear.
What keeps us alive?
Fear is a part of like likelife.
Nietzsche said to live is tosuffer to, to survive is to find
meaning in the suffering.
(03:31):
So like to live is to suffer.
Life is scary, it's like it'shard.
We're kind of thrown into thisthing and we've got to figure it
out.
And and so fear is is.
I think fear drives me on sucha deep level and it's how I've
been using it.
(03:51):
I haven't always used it in themost effective ways.
Anyway, could go on and onabout fear, but I think I'll
give you an example.
Let's say that things are goingreally well in the business.
But let's say that things aregoing really well in the
business, like everything's justgoing really well.
Well, I'm not driven by thefear.
Like it's.
I have to be more responsiblebecause there's a lack of
(04:13):
accountability, from things justnot going right, like it's a
completely different.
The question becomes well, wheredoes that motivation and where
does that inspiration come from,outside of fear, like we're
actually successful now?
That's where the cultureconversation starts.
What's our vision, what's ourmission?
What do we stand for?
(04:33):
Making what was once implicitor not spoken or not written
down, it was just in us.
Like I want to be successful, Iwant people to take me
seriously, I want money, I wantto be rich.
Like that's a different humanthan like the person that starts
the business.
That's a different person,different circumstances,
different behaviors than theperson that has the business now
.
And so, like I love the callthis is so interesting because
(04:56):
fear is so important andunderstanding how to use it and
understanding how to not get um,how to not be overwhelmed by it
well, that's part of it.
Okay, maybe that's where sothat's part of it.
Maria Quattrone (05:11):
You overwhelm, so people get into so much
overwhelm that this action isn'ttaken.
Jay Doran (05:16):
Look, at the example, like I might be afraid that if
I give honest feedback to myemployee or my business partner
or my insert, whoever, thatthere could be like negative
repercussions.
So from an organizationalculture standpoint, person like
the leadership really sets thattone for how communication flows
(05:40):
through the business.
And if the leadership is in aposition of fear, I want to say
I have absolutely been in allthese things.
I mean, what time is it?
Is it?
I was halfway through the night.
When I woke up last night I wasin fear and then this morning
I'm like, oh, this is great, why?
Because I wrote some thingsdown and made some plans.
This is not going anywhere.
I don't want to.
(06:00):
I'm not interested in speakingfrom like a type of moral
superiority or pulpit here.
This is like real time, realstuff.
Real time, real stuff.
But one thing that I can shareis when I don't share my vision
out of fear, I'm not showing upthe best version of myself.
I can speak from personalexperience.
When I'm not sharing my visionout of fear, I'm not.
(06:23):
Maybe it's like I don't know ifpeople do it seriously, or I
don't know if I'm ready or somecombination or even yet what's I
don't have the words for itRight.
Maybe if I did, I'd be at thatnext level yet.
But that fear is a part ofentrepreneurship.
I think the question is, how dowe wield it?
Think of all the people thatare never.
They're watching this.
They follow you, they love you,they're inspired you because
(06:45):
you took the leap, you have abusiness, you're very successful
, what you do for so many years.
They're watching this maybebecause they are trying to
anchor to you and yourinspiration, because they're
afraid to start their business.
There could be so many peoplewatching this that are afraid to
start their business because ofwhatever reason, maybe rational
, like oh, they have seven kidsand they all need to be fed.
(07:06):
I'm going to be afraid to startbecause if I don't succeed,
they will all die.
So that's extreme.
Maria Quattrone (07:13):
Jay.
Jay Doran (07:16):
Yeah, everything's extreme.
It's fun to live on theextremes.
You've got to have fun to crawlthe fear.
Maria Quattrone (07:23):
Oh boy, Wow Jay , why did you want to start
Culture Matters?
Jay Doran (07:29):
The original inspiration was the team
meetings with the core values.
I found myself in thosemeetings talking about the core
values.
I was inspired by seeingpeople's eyes light up.
I was inspired by seeingpeople's eyes light up.
I was inspired by seeing thebehavior change.
I was inspired by who I feltlike when I got to teach.
(07:52):
I saw parts of myself that Ihad never recognized or seen,
that had not been.
I mean, it started with thisbook.
I'm obsessed with books.
I was walking at Barnes Nobleand it stuck out.
I don't know why it was walking, it just stuck out.
Fairly obscure book.
If you're interested in culture, you're interested in business.
It was called Uncontainable andit was about the container
(08:17):
store Kip Tyndall started in1978.
I remember this.
This is like 2014 timeframe.
You know I had been a minoritymajority, uh, helping start a
new business from nothing, zero,from a visionary, no founder,
the visionary founder.
And uh, and it's uh.
I was anxious and afraid andoverwhelmed.
(08:38):
And where I went, where I go,one of the places I would go was
Barnes Noble.
I would look for informationthat got me out of fear.
Information got me out of fearIn that book.
It said Kip Tyndall said westarted the container store in
1978 to help people get moreorganized.
Success of like, less turnoverthan the average retailer,
(09:08):
higher profit than the averageor higher per capita pay for the
average employee in thatbusiness and numerous other
exciting things.
As a small business owner, Iwas excited about that idea like
, oh wow, you could besuccessful this way.
And he attributed to the sevenfounding principles of the
container store and I said tomyself, what are our values?
Where do we stand for?
And I remember like puttingthem all together and being so
(09:28):
excited about it.
It was helping me construct myown self, find my own self, just
to be clear.
And I remember presenting it tothe team at the time and Dan
this guy, dan, who was amazing,he raised his hand and he said
why are we having this?
In less kind words is how itfelt why are we having this
(09:50):
meeting?
This is a waste of time aroundthese values.
And I said just give me achance to show you Like.
I was like, yeah, that makessense.
I didn't get this last week.
Give me a chance.
And every day I want to givekudos where kudos do.
At the time, my partner Iconsidered him a mentor in so
many ways.
He had been pushing me to bethe one to be the do of the
meetings.
So he saw something in me to dothe meetings and it was boom
(10:16):
every day.
Hey, these are our values, thisis what they stand for, this is
why and we use them to.
Actually, one of them was thefirst three steps.
When the customer walkedthrough the door, they got
greeted with a warm, heartyhello.
The experience starts at thedoor and ends with a goodbye.
And there was an actionablestep.
It was like check in on yourFacebook, here is something
We'll give you water.
Check in.
And that was like a marketableexercise.
(10:38):
So what happened was I love toteach.
That's like who I am.
That's what was discoveredthere.
I like students.
They like me, one of my bestself, and I saw the results of
the culture.
I saw the results.
I also wanted money and respectand all the things that you
know to be successful.
So I saw the results and I waslike this culture thing is legit
(11:00):
now.
And from all of that I said tomyself I'm still trying to find
myself who I am today.
I was trying to find it in as aconsultant, as an advisor, as
an investor and so on.
I got to teach this, I got todo this.
Culture matters and from therejust pain and suffering here for
(11:20):
many years.
And anyway, I met you along theway and so it would be.
It was reading the.
It was being afraid.
Love the quotes, being afraid,going somewhere that I felt safe
, going to information to getout of fear, presenting the new
information to the team, seeingand then giving it time, seeing
the results being inspired,ultimately wanting to go into my
(11:43):
vision as an entrepreneur,create what was inside of me.
That was beyond just this firstbusiness.
And all of these years later weare involved in many of those
types of small, medium-sizedbusinesses, such as that one
original business.
It was a very successfulfounder, very gifted.
It's called Fusion Gyms.
(12:04):
I'm no longer an investor or apartner in that, but it was one
of those movie type with all thepain and suffering along the
way and embarrassing mistakesand shameful acts and so on.
But that was like the shortestversion.
I could kind of squeeze thatcrazy energy intensity the
(12:24):
shortest version.
I could kind of squeeze thatcrazy energy intensity, value
creation for customers.
And then I saw the culture atits finest and it absolutely
changed the trajectory of mylife.
And then it was trying tofigure out how the hell am I
going to teach this and how isanybody going to take that
seriously?
Maria Quattrone (12:39):
Still in that process.
Jay Doran (12:41):
Yeah, still in that process, but thankfully for
people like yourself early onespecially, that gave me
opportunity to serve and lots of.
Maria Quattrone (12:47):
Who the hell would I be for giving you
opportunity to serve now?
Yeah, it's overwhelming you geta good way but the overwhelming
yeah, you have a lot going on.
I you know.
I think one of the things inbeing an entrepreneur somebody
wants to start a business is, Ihear a lot of times, I'm not
(13:08):
where I want to be, I'm not atthe level I want to be.
Have you heard people say thatto you?
I'm not at the level I want tobe, I want to be here, but I'm
here.
Jay Doran (13:19):
Absolutely that level .
Yep.
Maria Quattrone (13:21):
So one of the things I think when I hear what
I said who do you have to become?
Who is the person that you needto become to be there?
It's like radicalself-awareness of personal
development, of who we are ashumans, and I think that's a big
(13:43):
part of it, the awareness I'veseen it with you the awareness
Like sometimes we're not awareof even what we're doing 100%.
A lot of times we're not aware.
We need to become aware.
It's like everything that wewant.
(14:04):
That's why this is Be theSolution is really up to us.
It's really up to us as anindividual.
You could have like right, youhad people, so we could have.
We had a period of time wherewe didn't talk right.
We could have not ever talkedtogether.
Jay Doran (14:25):
Story of my life period of time where we didn't
talk right.
We could have not ever talkedtogether.
Story of my life I have.
I believe in.
I think I think I learned more.
I learned from every student,like the teacher.
I learned that I learned frommy students in all sorts of
context and just cause you justif, if.
If a teacher is a teacher inone domain, that doesn't mean
(14:45):
they're a teacher in all domains.
Maria Quattrone (14:47):
Right, that's an arrogant presupposition.
Presupposition I like that one.
Jay Doran (14:52):
It's just a, not a.
It's not a good stance, that.
So I am I.
I I have a, I think I have a, Idon't have a.
I think I've been a very badteacher in a lot of ways I would
have.
That's like I, because you know, yeah, it's.
But I want to be the person atthe end of my life looks back
and says, oh, I messed that up,I sucked at that, I know.
(15:16):
And so I don't have the regret,because I think the regret has
a relationship with the lack ofadmitting to oneself.
Whatever oneself is maybe notowned up to fully or
acknowledged.
It's like, how can I live withregret if I try to make it right
?
So you know, really realrelationships can be tough if
there, if there's, you know, andthere's also adversity, like
(15:40):
adversity, two things thatdestroy small, medium sized
business, adversity, two thingsthat destroy small, medium-sized
business this is has to berelatable for anybody in
business is, uh, partnershipbreakups and actual, like life,
you know, interpersonal, likebreakups.
Small, medium-sized businessesthat's the lion's share of
businesses in in the country,the millions of businesses there
(16:02):
.
You know five million or undera million, you know under that
million, and it goes into thetens of thousands, when you go
beyond a million, and then youknow that, and then it goes into
the thousands and then hundreds, and then it's like it gets
smaller and smaller and smaller.
But in that swath of businessstatistics, what undermines the
(16:27):
businesses that actually havevalue for the marketplace?
It's the human element.
Maria Quattrone (16:33):
It's always about the human.
So wait in case.
I had a meeting with anindividual who's the owner of a
brokerage company and it wasthis person, and it was this
person, the founder, okay, andanother person.
And the other person wasrunning the meeting the main
(16:56):
person, the founder.
The founder was in whereverthey were, skiing or something,
it doesn't matter, they were onthe Zoom.
But what they did, the humandid they turned off their camera
while I was on the Zoom andthey were on the Zoom.
The other person was on the.
Zoom, I'm going to turn mycamera off, but I'll be here.
(17:18):
So I said, hmm, definitely notsomebody I want to be in
business with, right off the bat.
Don't take the meeting.
You're the founder.
You're turning your camera on,you're going to listen, but
you're not going to participate.
Don't take the meeting BecauseI now have no respect Not that I
(17:38):
don't have respect, that's thewrong word.
But why make somebody question,question.
You are right off the bat.
Jay Doran (17:46):
Well, it's a thing people are going to question us,
no matter what, right off thebat, as they should, because
that's how that's what.
That's how that keeps us asindividuals accountable, in a
sense.
So I would say people are goingto question us off the bat and
if yeah, so I would say you knowas they should and you know
(18:10):
that's what I would say to that.
I think, yeah, from a culturestandpoint, if that's like you
know, the more you know.
I guess I would want to talk tothat person about you know.
I would want to say, hey, thisis what happened, this is what
was the case.
What's your deal?
Are we doing this or not?
Anything absent of that, andI'm going to look for some type
(18:31):
of story to keep me from beinganxious and from reading
textbooks on psychology andworking with advisors and
mentors to help me become abetter advisor consultant to
(18:52):
businesses.
What I've learned as a studentis that our brain will play
tricks on us.
So I go back to therelationships piece.
When we're building a businessand we're building with people,
things are going to go wrong,because that's part of life and
if we value each other and haveliving in a state of value, then
(19:17):
we should be able to workthrough.
It doesn't mean it'd be able towork through whatever arises,
and it doesn't mean necessarilythat everything will stay the
same.
Life is constantly in flux andin change, so it doesn't.
Sure, so like yeah, yeah, but onpiece.
I think that was that wasreally helpful.
Share for the audience is likewho knows what that person is up
(19:39):
to.
But having a clear standard ofwhat you are looking for or not
looking for would be importantto you, clearly, and that's
where you know, get it.
Whether that's written down,it's one of the core values you
know.
Like I'm thinking like in ourcompany, we what show face so
like and why?
(20:01):
Well, we're on we.
We run a virtual company, sowhen we're on zoom, you do the
best you possibly can to beprepared, like if that's
something that's reallyimportant to you, like what's
important to you and yourcompany might be different than
what's important to somesomebody here, but but the but,
the lesson here is that eachperson has to get clear on
what's important to them andwrite it down and clear on it,
(20:25):
and that will now create moreopportunity to attract people
that share those values that arestill going to be this gray in
between, where we're just not onthe same page and it's going to
lead to be like oh man, gottahave this call or this
conversation that I really don'twant to have and if I'm in a
(20:46):
fear state I might have aterrible.
That's something I'm definitelyguilty of, just like.
Uh, it's like how you tell thetruth is as important as what
you're saying, how you do it,and sometimes I can see so far
ahead, so clearly, that I'llcome in like a million miles an
hour and that's, like you know,earth shattering, and it's not
(21:09):
about not my faults than anybodyelse.
That's more.
That's not great.
It's like happening, yeah so,but I like that.
I like that example, becausethat that's the stuff that
happens every day.
Maria Quattrone (21:22):
It is.
Jay Doran (21:25):
That person could have.
I mean, there's so manyscenarios that person could have
been seeing how others react tothat lack of, I would say,
respect.
That's the first thought thatcomes to mind.
It doesn't mean it's the right,but you said it already.
But it's like, yeah, if I'm ina meeting.
Maria Quattrone (21:42):
If I want to go to the meeting, I want to come
prepared, you want to go to themeeting.
I want to come prepared.
You want to go to the meetingwith paper bag over your head?
Jay Doran (21:46):
I mean you know who knows, though the person the
person could be, you know,insecure and ashamed about, like
how they look and who they areand all these other things no,
at the same time it could besome type of uh, but the point
is we can go on, we can make itup we can philosophize all day
long of what it is, but I thinkthe lesson here is that's where
the conversation comes if it'simportant to them, if it's
(22:09):
important to you or me orwhoever I look at it.
If it was important to them,they'd probably be part of the
conversation yeah, fair, I'mjust, I'm uh first meaning
probably be part of theconversation I don't mind
turning her in the other cheek,but that's that doesn't mean
that's the right answer.
That's just how I would look atit.
(22:29):
So, if I want something badenough, I'm going to go get it
and take it.
Now, that being said, if Idon't like how someone's
behaving, I'm going to like eventhe scenario right, if we're
talking about this.
And the if, if, if we, if wetalk through that, like if we're
talking about this, and if we,if we talk through that like,
this platform can easily be usedas like to continue.
The rationalization of this isright.
This is the truth.
Maria Quattrone (22:49):
This is where they messed up, but we don't
know that.
Jay Doran (22:51):
Yeah so.
Maria Quattrone (22:53):
Yeah, I'm leaving like that.
Jay Doran (22:55):
We don't know, so that's why having the
conversation can be helpful, butyou don't have to also do that.
You can't just decide to moveon and let go, and let it go and
go in another direction.
Maria Quattrone (23:05):
I'm happy with my decision of moving past
because it's free for me.
Jay Doran (23:11):
Well, as a business owner, you get, decide, decide,
and every business owner gets todecide what their hell looks
like or what their heaven is.
I get to decide or you get todecide to decide.
This is where, but this is whereadvisors come in, this is where
boards come in, this is whereshareholders come in, this is
where customer reviews come in.
(23:32):
Is we don't want things in avacuum.
This is where this, these tools, these social tools, can be
really helpful.
They can really show us who weare.
That's why I think thatlistening to the critics and not
blocking people that havenegative views can be really
helpful.
At the same time, unfortunately, it can skew more to like.
We don't yet know the researchon the psychological effects of
(23:56):
all of that, but I think we canDon't hate the haters, yes, yes.
Maria Quattrone (24:00):
Don't block.
I always remember you said thatDon't block the haters Deal
with the haters.
Jay Doran (24:06):
Yes, yes, don't block .
I always remember you said thatdon't block the haters, do with
the haters.
I'm not sure if I even agreewith it fully, but there's
something in because it's it'ssuch a fine line because you
almost like you can get killed.
It's such.
This is why I have a lot okay,I have a lot of.
I want to have empathy forpeople in positions of power,
because if you're in at the top,all the person at the top gets
(24:29):
is pain and suffering If they'represent the problems.
So it's how you synthesize that, how you work through that.
It's not an easy job to be theleader.
It is a hard job, and sothere's it's, there's, it's,
it's hard, it's, it's constant.
We have to go where theproblems are, get our hands
(24:49):
dirty, be the solution.
It's not easy to be thesolution it's.
Maria Quattrone (24:54):
We came up with the name, the podcast.
Jenna and I talked, we satthere on the zoom, he sat there
on the Zoom COVID, zoom Again,covid.
And he said she's like you'regoing to do a podcast, podcast.
She's like, yes, I'm like, okay, so we need a name.
Well, what do you do?
(25:16):
And I'm like, well, we solveproblems, bigger problems, more
challenges, more money.
And I said, well, we look atexpired to every child.
And I said we're the solution.
And then a friend of mine,quentin's colleague, he had a
podcast be generous.
I was like, oh, I like that.
(25:37):
Be the solution, be thesolution, be the solution.
And that's been my mantra sinceApril 1st of 2020.
Be the solution.
Jay Doran (25:47):
I think you've always been that for your clients,
which is why you're sosuccessful.
Maria Quattrone (25:52):
Just named it.
Jay Doran (25:54):
Well, that shows the power of asking questions and
relationships, the alignmentbetween a brand and the actual
culture.
That's like the secret saucethe culture is what actually
happens.
The brand is what we wantpeople to think is possible.
Maria Quattrone (26:10):
True.
Jay Doran (26:12):
Like the culture is in behavior, it's in behavior.
The core.
The value of the core valueexercise is the discovery of
what we stand for and why.
And it's like the discovery,it's a part of the process to
discover ourselves as anorganization and this thing
living by it is a life test.
(26:32):
I believe I failed this.
I was rereading 30 Days ofThought, my first book, which
was written almost seven yearsago, and in the back of the book
there are the core values ofculture matters.
Like the c in culture mattersis collaboration, give first,
intend to help and get started.
(26:52):
Today, unique, you know,learned.
The more you learn, the moreyou earn trust, really trust in
yourself, so you can trustothers.
And I went through the valuesthat I had written down and the
first move make it happen, do itnow a aspire to inspire before
you expire.
And there's a story behind allthese.
Like people I met on planesthat said hey, this one lady
(27:12):
gave me a note and said it saidaspire to inspire before you
expire anyway.
I went through an exercise oflike looking at the values and
saying what grade would I givemyself in each of these?
And I was a failure.
So that's the grade.
But I think if anyone caresabout culture and values on the
call.
It's like the value of thevalues is what we can learn
(27:34):
about ourselves from that andwhat others can give us feedback
.
Pro and con.
There's so much I've learnedfrom Maria, what she said and
how she showed up, ourrelationship, working
relationship over the years, thepersonal friendship that's
blossomed from that on bothsides of it.
It's like there's no greatergift in business than to be able
(27:55):
to work with people, to workand enjoy the process of those
you get to work with.
Like Peter Drucker, the founderof, I think, of management, he
said on the purpose of those youget to work with.
Like Peter Drucker, the founderof, I think, management, he
said the purpose of a businessis to create and keep a customer
.
It's like when we get away fromour customers and we get away
from why we started whichnaturally I think happens as we
(28:18):
grow the business grows and wegrow in our how long we've been
doing.
Whatever we're doing, we canget away from it.
It's happened to me.
It's happened to because Idon't think, just because I'm
trying to especially, you know,research is me, search
psychological term, like justbecause you're a teacher doesn't
(28:39):
mean I'm avoiding.
Or if I have a consultingbusiness doesn't mean that as
the business, we're immune fromthe same things that the
organizations and all thedifferent industries that we
serve would go through.
So there's an organizational,we get away as the organization
grows.
We can get away from thefundamental purpose of a
business and also, as we grow aspeople, we have different life
(28:59):
events.
We age like we can grow awayfrom the center of the business,
which and we could even talkabout real estate like the
purpose of business, like why isit exists, it's about other
people that need goods andservices and naturally we can
get away from that and I guess Ican.
You know, I don't need to shamemyself over that, just be aware
(29:22):
of oh man, I got to get back ontarget.
What's the vision, what's theplan?
Who needs me right now?
Where do I need to be?
Consumer, facing, rightEmployment facing.
So it's just in conversationslike this whether we have this,
this is how we talk when we'renot.
This is a normal conversationfor us.
We're just talking before wehear a report.
You share what you think, Ishare what I think, and then all
(29:48):
sorts of cool things come out.
Maria Quattrone (29:49):
That's just some thoughts that come up when
you share that.
You know, jay, somethingextraordinary happened for you,
I thought.
Jay Doran (29:54):
Anyway, you got to admit, you got to interview
somebody that you highlyrespected, highly respect and dr
jordan peterson and I'm curiousto know what that felt like
there were two jays there todaybackstage, I felt the uh,
(30:16):
overwhelming, um, I'd had theopportunity to meet prior, uh,
but this was a very differentcontext because of the intimacy
of that, being preparing for thestage time.
He asked great questions.
He leans in, he was prepared,he was thinking about the
customer, which is incredible,not just us, because we're,
because the people bringing himin, but who's in the audience.
(30:39):
So his questions were aroundwho's in the audience?
So that's exciting from astandpoint is okay, you've
studied the textbooks, you'veused it.
You haven't yet met the teacherfrom afar.
Who are they?
Because there's who you mightthink they are and then there's
who they are.
So that's inspiring.
I was Dr Peterson is truly ateacher and who you'd hope he'd
(30:59):
be there, and it's like hey, um,I could feel the anxiety and
the excitement of meetingsomeone more deeply that you
admire, that you haven't yetmeet, and it was in my
physiology and my, my X, myenergy.
And hey, would you sign maps ofmeeting?
I've read so many.
It's nice to see a well-wornbook.
Like all of that, there's a fanelement that I'm trying to also
(31:22):
prepare the teacher to presentto these students in the
audience.
So there's that, jay.
It's a very elevated heart.
It's like oh, there's John Wick, I love John Wick movies.
Let me.
There's a fan element thatyou're trying to temper.
But then if anyone hasn't seenthe interview, I would love
feedback on it.
He did a keynote and then I dida keynote.
(31:44):
I sat in the front, took noteson it because I figured as much,
based on the conversation, hewas going to change his talk
based on the conversationbackstage, which he did, because
he gave a different talk basedon the conversation.
I had to throw away the 70 someodd questions that I had, but I
have been preparing for 10months.
Abraham Lincoln said if I havesix hours to chop down a tree,
(32:05):
I'll spend four hours sharpeningmy blade.
So for 10 months I prepared,I'm preparing for a lot of
things all the time and preparebefore we did this, even if
we're not going through thosequestions or those contexts that
I think we might.
I've sacrificed.
I am invested in this show withyou to honor the opportunity to
be on the show.
So I've prepared, so I prepare,and I didn't always prepare, I
(32:27):
prepare, and so the me that wason the stage, the feedback I've
asked from people and thefeedback I've received.
It was a professional, well puttogether dialogue, synthesizing
the keynote, which was veryabstract and educational to
(32:48):
tactical, more tactical, whatthe audience needed.
I was asking questions andtaking notes, but I had been
preparing for months and I thinkthat's an important lesson for
those listening.
I am excited.
There is a selfishness inmeeting someone I admire that
has impacted my life and ourcustomers and our business and
all of these things.
One of the many, but a hugeinfluence, right, because I use
(33:12):
this textbook very, reallydiligently and other resources
to grow as a person and as abusiness owner, as an advisor.
It's benefited everyone,whether they even are aware of
that or not, and so that's anemotional, exciting thing.
But because of the preparation,I was able to do the best
possible job serving thecustomer, honoring the
(33:33):
relationship, not making it allabout me, which it absolutely
hugely is about about me,because this is something that
my ego and attachment is too.
So the preparation helped meshow up in a way that could
provide value and actually iscool.
Just as an aside, if anybody'sinterested, there's a 14 part
series on the culture matterspodcast in the we have it's.
(33:56):
It's between episode nine.
It's in the 900s, I don'trecall the exact number of the
episodes.
There's 40 episodes with anintroduction and an outro.
Chapters or rules, chapters,rules one through 12 of his
third book, beyond Order, 12More Rules for Life.
Part of my preparation was Ireread the book.
I highlighted, I took notes,notes and I've learned all the
(34:20):
rules.
And there's a 10 hour lectureseries on the Culture Irish
podcast of me as a student goingthrough those rules and I was
doing that as part of mypreparation for this opportunity
to so and I grew from that.
That was, that was, that wasexciting, it was fun.
I'm not I think I've grown fromthat.
That was a, that was a, thatwas an exciting, it was fun.
I'm not, I think I've I'vegrown from that process.
(34:41):
So that's on the cultural Irishpodcast and in the nine
hundreds we're almost at athousand episodes.
We will be in August at athousand episodes.
Maria Quattrone (34:48):
So there were two.
Jay Doran (34:48):
J's, there's the, there's the fan, there's the
students and everybody hasheroes.
You know, I was talking to Brad.
He's like what's it like tomeet your heroes?
At first I was thinking I tookit in the wrong way.
But no, he is a hero for sureand I should talk about this.
It is great to meet your heroes.
I actually think to be a heroyou have to meet your heroes and
I don't think a hero canactually let us down.
(35:09):
It can, but to become a hero wehave to meet our heroes and
honor our heroesanmetaphorically met his hero.
How he already knew his hero,how he showed up, wasn't
necessarily the best, based onhis opinion of his hero.
So I think that whole becausethe the sentiment is never meet
(35:30):
your heroes like you want tomeet your heroes and you want to
honor them, even if you knowmaybe they don't live up to
whatever expectation I thinkthat's more of a projection of
the person than it is.
It's like it's not an idolworship here.
It's somebody that you admire.
You want to meet your heroes.
If you want to be a hero, youhave to meet your heroes.
You have to meet them, you haveto honor them, you have to
(35:52):
learn from them.
You have to.
Um, that was a thought that Ihad because a lot of people ask
me.
That was a thought that I hadbecause a lot of people ask me
have you, you know what's itlike to meet your, your hero or
a hero of yours?
It was like it's great, it'samazing, it's opportunity to
have a, to grow in therelationship that I can with my
potential and potentially have amentor, that I'm here because
of my mentors and my students,that I learned from both.
(36:14):
So, man, that that's a longanswer, but that's the right
answer.
I feel good about that answer.
There were two J's there's thefan, there's the student and
then there's the preparedcontemporary, at least in the
sense of company culture.
That's not.
Dr Peterson is a clinicalpsychologist.
(36:37):
I would never consider myself acontemporary to him in that
domain.
That would be weird.
However, I am a subject matterexpert around company culture at
the level that we work at smalland medium-sized businesses,
and that was an opportunity toask someone who I think has a
great brand and knowledge basethat speaks to small,
(37:01):
medium-sized businesses.
That I think we've exemplifiedby using some of his teachings
to help small businesses,whether they knew that was the
case or not.
He's a great breadth ofinformation that could help
small businesses and that's nothis bad.
He wouldn't say, oh, I'm abusiness expert.
He wouldn't say that he's neverpostured something, but he has
a tremendous value to smallbusiness and business expertise.
(37:23):
So it was a.
I hope to do it again.
That's a goal and it was fun tohave an opportunity to share
some of myself again withaudiences.
I get to do on your show,because I feel like Rocky in one
of those movies where he gotfat and like stopped training
and then he had a, lost a bunchand then he had to go back and
(37:45):
like do training and work out.
That's where I believe I'm atin my life right now and I'm
more successful than I've everbeen in so many ways and I feel
like an absolute loser.
So it's like, wow, what a greatopportunity to actually finally
earn the opportunity to workwith a hero.
And it's because of our client.
One of our client partners madeit happen because they wanted
to honor the relationship.
God, I got to be more grateful.
(38:07):
That's rule 12, by the way, inBeyond Order Be grateful in
spite of your suffering.
It ends the book that way, rule12.
Maria Quattrone (38:14):
Be grateful.
I start every day to talk aboutthat, jay.
Be in gratitude.
Not only when you are gratefuland in gratitude will your
vibration elevates, becauseyou're grateful for where you
are.
That doesn't mean that youdon't want more, sure, you can I
want to say something about you.
Jay Doran (38:35):
You have this unbelievable gift of seeing
things in people that havewatched it.
There's probably like untoldamount of agents in this greater
Philadelphia and beyond areaprospective customers to service
your investor and residentialand whatever context clients,
(39:00):
that they're probably spread outall over the country.
Whether they realize it or not,you change the paradigm by
which they operate and, ofcourse, I could say the same for
you as someone that at one timeMaria had me.
She gave me a blow up mattressto borrow so I could have
something to sleep on.
It's like podcast.
We've done on this a couple oftimes.
That'll be a future podcastmaybe, but like you and I think
(39:23):
that if people follow your showand they watch Be the Solution,
they put that together.
But if you'd ever seen the show, that's what you do, you've
been doing it for so long andit's one of the reasons why I
talk to people on the phone andyour name comes up and it's
happened where they said it'sone of the best realtors that's
ever existed in the greaterPhiladelphia market ever.
Why Be the solution?
(39:45):
Living that out, constant fromselling stuff door to door to
radio to whatever You've alwaysbeen top and inspired and
excited people and you know, lpmom, I still remember that
Location, price motivation,agent mortgage closing was like
a script that you had the agentsin the office, me included.
Maria Quattrone (40:09):
Still doing it.
Jay Doran (40:10):
And yeah, that would be a great podcast.
Maria Quattrone (40:13):
We went to new agents because we have a lot of
new agents right now.
We went to daily.
I said, like a shower Got to doit.
You know, you're eitherpracticing with each other or on
the client consumer.
So we're not going to practiceon the consumer, we're going to
practice with each other.
(40:34):
People say, oh, I don't like touse scripts.
Well, I don't care what you doin life, we're doctors.
They have to ask you questions.
The nurse asks you thequestions you get weed.
You do all these things right,it's just the same thing.
We have to ask questions.
We can't help people withoutasking questions.
The better questions we ask,the better we can help make an
(40:55):
impact we can help make animpact, be in contribution, be
the solution.
And with that, yeah, this was somuch fun.
Always a pleasure to have myfriend family to chip and I uh
on the solution and lovespending time with him.
So happy we got to spend timetogether in person today.
(41:19):
This is just a treat Not havingto do it on.
Jay Doran (41:25):
And in person.
For me, this is very specialtoday with you and I love the
conversation.
It made me feel light.
Thank you for the opportunityand I'm hoping that this could
be a foreshadow for me to be theconversation.
It made me feel light.
Thank you for the opportunityand I'm hoping that this could
be a foreshadow for me to be thesolution.
Maria Quattrone (41:43):
Oh, you are ready.
Jay Doran (41:45):
Okay, well, yeah, okay, maybe.
Sorry I'm going to hijack theending of your show.
You just got me excited withthat.
Maria Quattrone (41:52):
Jay will be back on before the end of the
year.
See where he is with all thesewonderful things he has going on
, and, oh, I just love watchinghis journey.
So thank you for sharing.
Jay Doran (42:03):
Thanks, and oh, listen to maria you've been on
the culture matters podcastprobably almost 10 times, almost
really maybe seven.
Type in uh, the culture matterspodcast, maria quattro, and go
listen to all those episodes andthey're unbelievable.
Maria Quattrone (42:20):
And we got to get you on again in July.
Jay Doran (42:21):
So there you go, it's almost 10.
It should be.
It should be.
Maria Quattrone (42:25):
Like I'm upset now.
Jay Doran (42:27):
If it's not 10, then I'm upset at myself.
Maria Quattrone (42:28):
So All right, yeah Well, I'm going to check it
out.
I am super excited today.
I am Maria Patron, and this isthe Be the Solution podcast.
Today I have a very specialguest.
If you don't know him, you needto get to know him.
This is Jay Duran, culture man.
True, jay's all about culture,but Jay and I have gone back now
well over a decade and we'vehad a very interesting,
(00:25):
interesting relationship overthe last decade in a very good
way, and so I'm very excited tohave jay back on the show today.
Jay, so this morning I wasthinking about because I was
inspired by you doing it boats,so I start doing it.
Jay Doran (00:43):
Oh, that's awesome, so this is the quote I I picked
for you today the quotes.
Maria Quattrone (00:44):
so I start doing the quotes.
Oh, that's awesome.
So this is the quote I pickedfor you today the only thing we
have to fear is fear itself.
Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
Jay Doran (00:54):
Wow.
Maria Quattrone (00:55):
The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
Thanks, you're welcome.
That quote, though, issomething that resonates with me
because I think that well, forme anyway, think about what
holds you back.
If you knew you would not fail,what would you attempt to do?
And if we think about it, mostpeople stop or don't get started
(01:21):
because of fear.
The fear of what if?
In a good way and in a bad way.
The fear of what if?
What if I actually amsuccessful in this endeavor?
What if I'm not successful?
But I think it's more of whatif I am.
Jay Doran (01:35):
Anyway, I love the topic because I think it's an
honor to be here and an honor tohave the relationship and work
together over all these years inso many different contexts, and
I think it's such a that couldbe a book really, um, really,
but it's an honor to be on bethe solution.
I love the idea and I'minspired by the idea of being a
(01:57):
solution and I love the quotefdr that was the.
I don't know a lot about hisstory, but wasn't he
instrumental, I think, in World?
Maria Quattrone (02:08):
War.
Jay Doran (02:09):
II and all of that, the New Deal.
And he was in a wheelchair atone point, I think FDR Franklin,
because there's anotherRoosevelt that I get confused
sometimes.
I think they were related, butI'm inspired by both.
I don't know enough about FDR,but I love the quote because I
think fear undermines cultureactually.
Sure, it's an interesting placeto start inspired by it.
Maria Quattrone (02:34):
Fear does undermine culture, but yet fear
is not real.
Well, fear, it's not reallyreal, but it is real.
Jay Doran (02:46):
There are things could go wrong, and it's it's.
It's like self-awareness andfear have a relationship Like
the more the more.
Like that's where, because,think about it, if I'm not
thinking about the consequences,I might just need exactly what
I need to move into the, to moveinto action, whereas if I get
(03:10):
stunted like I'd be stunted bythinking about all the different
things that could happen, solike fear.
What keeps us alive?
Fear is a part of like likelife.
Nietzsche said to live is tosuffer to, to survive is to find
meaning in the suffering.
(03:31):
So like to live is to suffer.
Life is scary, it's like it'shard.
We're kind of thrown into thisthing and we've got to figure it
out.
And and so fear is is.
I think fear drives me on sucha deep level and it's how I've
been using it.
(03:51):
I haven't always used it in themost effective ways.
Anyway, could go on and onabout fear, but I think I'll
give you an example.
Let's say that things are goingreally well in the business.
But let's say that things aregoing really well in the
business, like everything's justgoing really well.
Well, I'm not driven by thefear.
Like it's.
I have to be more responsiblebecause there's a lack of
(04:13):
accountability, from things justnot going right, like it's a
completely different.
The question becomes well, wheredoes that motivation and where
does that inspiration come from,outside of fear, like we're
actually successful now?
That's where the cultureconversation starts.
What's our vision, what's ourmission?
What do we stand for?
(04:33):
Making what was once implicitor not spoken or not written
down, it was just in us.
Like I want to be successful, Iwant people to take me
seriously, I want money, I wantto be rich.
Like that's a different humanthan like the person that starts
the business.
That's a different person,different circumstances,
different behaviors than theperson that has the business now
.
And so, like I love the callthis is so interesting because
(04:56):
fear is so important andunderstanding how to use it and
understanding how to not get um,how to not be overwhelmed by it
well, that's part of it.
Okay, maybe that's where sothat's part of it.
Maria Quattrone (05:11):
You overwhelm, so people get into so much
overwhelm that this action isn'ttaken.
Jay Doran (05:16):
Look, at the example, like I might be afraid that if
I give honest feedback to myemployee or my business partner
or my insert, whoever, thatthere could be like negative
repercussions.
So from an organizationalculture standpoint, person like
the leadership really sets thattone for how communication flows
(05:40):
through the business.
And if the leadership is in aposition of fear, I want to say
I have absolutely been in allthese things.
I mean, what time is it?
Is it?
I was halfway through the night.
When I woke up last night I wasin fear and then this morning
I'm like, oh, this is great, why?
Because I wrote some thingsdown and made some plans.
This is not going anywhere.
I don't want to.
(06:00):
I'm not interested in speakingfrom like a type of moral
superiority or pulpit here.
This is like real time, realstuff.
Real time, real stuff.
But one thing that I can shareis when I don't share my vision
out of fear, I'm not showing upthe best version of myself.
I can speak from personalexperience.
When I'm not sharing my visionout of fear, I'm not.
(06:23):
Maybe it's like I don't know ifpeople do it seriously, or I
don't know if I'm ready or somecombination or even yet what's I
don't have the words for itRight.
Maybe if I did, I'd be at thatnext level yet.
But that fear is a part ofentrepreneurship.
I think the question is, how dowe wield it?
Think of all the people thatare never.
They're watching this.
They follow you, they love you,they're inspired you because
(06:45):
you took the leap, you have abusiness, you're very successful
, what you do for so many years.
They're watching this maybebecause they are trying to
anchor to you and yourinspiration, because they're
afraid to start their business.
There could be so many peoplewatching this that are afraid to
start their business because ofwhatever reason, maybe rational
, like oh, they have seven kidsand they all need to be fed.
(07:06):
I'm going to be afraid to startbecause if I don't succeed,
they will all die.
So that's extreme.
Maria Quattrone (07:13):
Jay.
Jay Doran (07:16):
Yeah, everything's extreme.
It's fun to live on theextremes.
You've got to have fun to crawlthe fear.
Maria Quattrone (07:23):
Oh boy, Wow Jay , why did you want to start
Culture Matters?
Jay Doran (07:29):
The original inspiration was the team
meetings with the core values.
I found myself in thosemeetings talking about the core
values.
I was inspired by seeingpeople's eyes light up.
I was inspired by seeingpeople's eyes light up.
I was inspired by seeing thebehavior change.
I was inspired by who I feltlike when I got to teach.
(07:52):
I saw parts of myself that Ihad never recognized or seen,
that had not been.
I mean, it started with thisbook.
I'm obsessed with books.
I was walking at Barnes Nobleand it stuck out.
I don't know why it was walking, it just stuck out.
Fairly obscure book.
If you're interested in culture, you're interested in business.
It was called Uncontainable andit was about the container
(08:17):
store Kip Tyndall started in1978.
I remember this.
This is like 2014 timeframe.
You know I had been a minoritymajority, uh, helping start a
new business from nothing, zero,from a visionary, no founder,
the visionary founder.
And uh, and it's uh.
I was anxious and afraid andoverwhelmed.
(08:38):
And where I went, where I go,one of the places I would go was
Barnes Noble.
I would look for informationthat got me out of fear.
Information got me out of fearIn that book.
It said Kip Tyndall said westarted the container store in
1978 to help people get moreorganized.
Success of like, less turnoverthan the average retailer,
(09:08):
higher profit than the averageor higher per capita pay for the
average employee in thatbusiness and numerous other
exciting things.
As a small business owner, Iwas excited about that idea like
, oh wow, you could besuccessful this way.
And he attributed to the sevenfounding principles of the
container store and I said tomyself, what are our values?
Where do we stand for?
And I remember like puttingthem all together and being so
(09:28):
excited about it.
It was helping me construct myown self, find my own self, just
to be clear.
And I remember presenting it tothe team at the time and Dan
this guy, dan, who was amazing,he raised his hand and he said
why are we having this?
In less kind words is how itfelt why are we having this
(09:50):
meeting?
This is a waste of time aroundthese values.
And I said just give me achance to show you Like.
I was like, yeah, that makessense.
I didn't get this last week.
Give me a chance.
And every day I want to givekudos where kudos do.
At the time, my partner Iconsidered him a mentor in so
many ways.
He had been pushing me to bethe one to be the do of the
meetings.
So he saw something in me to dothe meetings and it was boom
(10:16):
every day.
Hey, these are our values, thisis what they stand for, this is
why and we use them to.
Actually, one of them was thefirst three steps.
When the customer walkedthrough the door, they got
greeted with a warm, heartyhello.
The experience starts at thedoor and ends with a goodbye.
And there was an actionablestep.
It was like check in on yourFacebook, here is something
We'll give you water.
Check in.
And that was like a marketableexercise.
(10:38):
So what happened was I love toteach.
That's like who I am.
That's what was discoveredthere.
I like students.
They like me, one of my bestself, and I saw the results of
the culture.
I saw the results.
I also wanted money and respectand all the things that you
know to be successful.
So I saw the results and I waslike this culture thing is legit
(11:00):
now.
And from all of that I said tomyself I'm still trying to find
myself who I am today.
I was trying to find it in as aconsultant, as an advisor, as
an investor and so on.
I got to teach this, I got todo this.
Culture matters and from therejust pain and suffering here for
(11:20):
many years.
And anyway, I met you along theway and so it would be.
It was reading the.
It was being afraid.
Love the quotes, being afraid,going somewhere that I felt safe
, going to information to getout of fear, presenting the new
information to the team, seeingand then giving it time, seeing
the results being inspired,ultimately wanting to go into my
(11:43):
vision as an entrepreneur,create what was inside of me.
That was beyond just this firstbusiness.
And all of these years later weare involved in many of those
types of small, medium-sizedbusinesses, such as that one
original business.
It was a very successfulfounder, very gifted.
It's called Fusion Gyms.
(12:04):
I'm no longer an investor or apartner in that, but it was one
of those movie type with all thepain and suffering along the
way and embarrassing mistakesand shameful acts and so on.
But that was like the shortestversion.
I could kind of squeeze thatcrazy energy intensity the
(12:24):
shortest version.
I could kind of squeeze thatcrazy energy intensity, value
creation for customers.
And then I saw the culture atits finest and it absolutely
changed the trajectory of mylife.
And then it was trying tofigure out how the hell am I
going to teach this and how isanybody going to take that
seriously?
Maria Quattrone (12:39):
Still in that process.
Jay Doran (12:41):
Yeah, still in that process, but thankfully for
people like yourself early onespecially, that gave me
opportunity to serve and lots of.
Maria Quattrone (12:47):
Who the hell would I be for giving you
opportunity to serve now?
Yeah, it's overwhelming you geta good way but the overwhelming
yeah, you have a lot going on.
I you know.
I think one of the things inbeing an entrepreneur somebody
wants to start a business is, Ihear a lot of times, I'm not
(13:08):
where I want to be, I'm not atthe level I want to be.
Have you heard people say thatto you?
I'm not at the level I want tobe, I want to be here, but I'm
here.
Jay Doran (13:19):
Absolutely that level .
Yep.
Maria Quattrone (13:21):
So one of the things I think when I hear what
I said who do you have to become?
Who is the person that you needto become to be there?
It's like radicalself-awareness of personal
development, of who we are ashumans, and I think that's a big
(13:43):
part of it, the awareness I'veseen it with you the awareness
Like sometimes we're not awareof even what we're doing 100%.
A lot of times we're not aware.
We need to become aware.
It's like everything that wewant.
(14:04):
That's why this is Be theSolution is really up to us.
It's really up to us as anindividual.
You could have like right, youhad people, so we could have.
We had a period of time wherewe didn't talk right.
We could have not ever talkedtogether.
Jay Doran (14:25):
Story of my life period of time where we didn't
talk right.
We could have not ever talkedtogether.
Story of my life I have.
I believe in.
I think I think I learned more.
I learned from every student,like the teacher.
I learned that I learned frommy students in all sorts of
context and just cause you justif, if.
If a teacher is a teacher inone domain, that doesn't mean
(14:45):
they're a teacher in all domains.
Maria Quattrone (14:47):
Right, that's an arrogant presupposition.
Presupposition I like that one.
Jay Doran (14:52):
It's just a, not a.
It's not a good stance, that.
So I am I.
I I have a, I think I have a, Idon't have a.
I think I've been a very badteacher in a lot of ways I would
have.
That's like I, because you know, yeah, it's.
But I want to be the person atthe end of my life looks back
and says, oh, I messed that up,I sucked at that, I know.
(15:16):
And so I don't have the regret,because I think the regret has
a relationship with the lack ofadmitting to oneself.
Whatever oneself is maybe notowned up to fully or
acknowledged.
It's like, how can I live withregret if I try to make it right
?
So you know, really realrelationships can be tough if
there, if there's, you know, andthere's also adversity, like
(15:40):
adversity, two things thatdestroy small, medium sized
business, adversity, two thingsthat destroy small, medium-sized
business this is has to berelatable for anybody in
business is, uh, partnershipbreakups and actual, like life,
you know, interpersonal, likebreakups.
Small, medium-sized businessesthat's the lion's share of
businesses in in the country,the millions of businesses there
(16:02):
.
You know five million or undera million, you know under that
million, and it goes into thetens of thousands, when you go
beyond a million, and then youknow that, and then it goes into
the thousands and then hundreds, and then it's like it gets
smaller and smaller and smaller.
But in that swath of businessstatistics, what undermines the
(16:27):
businesses that actually havevalue for the marketplace?
It's the human element.
Maria Quattrone (16:33):
It's always about the human.
So wait in case.
I had a meeting with anindividual who's the owner of a
brokerage company and it wasthis person, and it was this
person, the founder, okay, andanother person.
And the other person wasrunning the meeting the main
(16:56):
person, the founder.
The founder was in whereverthey were, skiing or something,
it doesn't matter, they were onthe Zoom.
But what they did, the humandid they turned off their camera
while I was on the Zoom andthey were on the Zoom.
The other person was on the.
Zoom, I'm going to turn mycamera off, but I'll be here.
(17:18):
So I said, hmm, definitely notsomebody I want to be in
business with, right off the bat.
Don't take the meeting.
You're the founder.
You're turning your camera on,you're going to listen, but
you're not going to participate.
Don't take the meeting BecauseI now have no respect Not that I
(17:38):
don't have respect, that's thewrong word.
But why make somebody question,question.
You are right off the bat.
Jay Doran (17:46):
Well, it's a thing people are going to question us,
no matter what, right off thebat, as they should, because
that's how that's what.
That's how that keeps us asindividuals accountable, in a
sense.
So I would say people are goingto question us off the bat and
if yeah, so I would say you knowas they should and you know
(18:10):
that's what I would say to that.
I think, yeah, from a culturestandpoint, if that's like you
know, the more you know.
I guess I would want to talk tothat person about you know.
I would want to say, hey, thisis what happened, this is what
was the case.
What's your deal?
Are we doing this or not?
Anything absent of that, andI'm going to look for some type
(18:31):
of story to keep me from beinganxious and from reading
textbooks on psychology andworking with advisors and
mentors to help me become abetter advisor consultant to
(18:52):
businesses.
What I've learned as a studentis that our brain will play
tricks on us.
So I go back to therelationships piece.
When we're building a businessand we're building with people,
things are going to go wrong,because that's part of life and
if we value each other and haveliving in a state of value, then
(19:17):
we should be able to workthrough.
It doesn't mean it'd be able towork through whatever arises,
and it doesn't mean necessarilythat everything will stay the
same.
Life is constantly in flux andin change, so it doesn't.
Sure, so like yeah, yeah, but onpiece.
I think that was that wasreally helpful.
Share for the audience is likewho knows what that person is up
(19:39):
to.
But having a clear standard ofwhat you are looking for or not
looking for would be importantto you, clearly, and that's
where you know, get it.
Whether that's written down,it's one of the core values you
know.
Like I'm thinking like in ourcompany, we what show face so
like and why?
(20:01):
Well, we're on we.
We run a virtual company, sowhen we're on zoom, you do the
best you possibly can to beprepared, like if that's
something that's reallyimportant to you, like what's
important to you and yourcompany might be different than
what's important to somesomebody here, but but the but,
the lesson here is that eachperson has to get clear on
what's important to them andwrite it down and clear on it,
(20:25):
and that will now create moreopportunity to attract people
that share those values that arestill going to be this gray in
between, where we're just not onthe same page and it's going to
lead to be like oh man, gottahave this call or this
conversation that I really don'twant to have and if I'm in a
(20:46):
fear state I might have aterrible.
That's something I'm definitelyguilty of, just like.
Uh, it's like how you tell thetruth is as important as what
you're saying, how you do it,and sometimes I can see so far
ahead, so clearly, that I'llcome in like a million miles an
hour and that's, like you know,earth shattering, and it's not
(21:09):
about not my faults than anybodyelse.
That's more.
That's not great.
It's like happening, yeah so,but I like that.
I like that example, becausethat that's the stuff that
happens every day.
Maria Quattrone (21:22):
It is.
Jay Doran (21:25):
That person could have.
I mean, there's so manyscenarios that person could have
been seeing how others react tothat lack of, I would say,
respect.
That's the first thought thatcomes to mind.
It doesn't mean it's the right,but you said it already.
But it's like, yeah, if I'm ina meeting.
Maria Quattrone (21:42):
If I want to go to the meeting, I want to come
prepared, you want to go to themeeting.
I want to come prepared.
You want to go to the meetingwith paper bag over your head?
Jay Doran (21:46):
I mean you know who knows, though the person the
person could be, you know,insecure and ashamed about, like
how they look and who they areand all these other things no,
at the same time it could besome type of uh, but the point
is we can go on, we can make itup we can philosophize all day
long of what it is, but I thinkthe lesson here is that's where
the conversation comes if it'simportant to them, if it's
(22:09):
important to you or me orwhoever I look at it.
If it was important to them,they'd probably be part of the
conversation yeah, fair, I'mjust, I'm uh first meaning
probably be part of theconversation I don't mind
turning her in the other cheek,but that's that doesn't mean
that's the right answer.
That's just how I would look atit.
(22:29):
So, if I want something badenough, I'm going to go get it
and take it.
Now, that being said, if Idon't like how someone's
behaving, I'm going to like eventhe scenario right, if we're
talking about this.
And the if, if, if we, if wetalk through that, like if we're
talking about this, and if we,if we talk through that like,
this platform can easily be usedas like to continue.
The rationalization of this isright.
This is the truth.
Maria Quattrone (22:49):
This is where they messed up, but we don't
know that.
Jay Doran (22:51):
Yeah so.
Maria Quattrone (22:53):
Yeah, I'm leaving like that.
Jay Doran (22:55):
We don't know, so that's why having the
conversation can be helpful, butyou don't have to also do that.
You can't just decide to moveon and let go, and let it go and
go in another direction.
Maria Quattrone (23:05):
I'm happy with my decision of moving past
because it's free for me.
Jay Doran (23:11):
Well, as a business owner, you get, decide, decide,
and every business owner gets todecide what their hell looks
like or what their heaven is.
I get to decide or you get todecide to decide.
This is where, but this is whereadvisors come in, this is where
boards come in, this is whereshareholders come in, this is
where customer reviews come in.
(23:32):
Is we don't want things in avacuum.
This is where this, these tools, these social tools, can be
really helpful.
They can really show us who weare.
That's why I think thatlistening to the critics and not
blocking people that havenegative views can be really
helpful.
At the same time, unfortunately, it can skew more to like.
We don't yet know the researchon the psychological effects of
(23:56):
all of that, but I think we canDon't hate the haters, yes, yes.
Maria Quattrone (24:00):
Don't block.
I always remember you said thatDon't block the haters Deal
with the haters.
Jay Doran (24:06):
Yes, yes, don't block .
I always remember you said thatdon't block the haters, do with
the haters.
I'm not sure if I even agreewith it fully, but there's
something in because it's it'ssuch a fine line because you
almost like you can get killed.
It's such.
This is why I have a lot okay,I have a lot of.
I want to have empathy forpeople in positions of power,
because if you're in at the top,all the person at the top gets
(24:29):
is pain and suffering If they'represent the problems.
So it's how you synthesize that, how you work through that.
It's not an easy job to be theleader.
It is a hard job, and sothere's it's, there's, it's,
it's hard, it's, it's constant.
We have to go where theproblems are, get our hands
(24:49):
dirty, be the solution.
It's not easy to be thesolution it's.
Maria Quattrone (24:54):
We came up with the name, the podcast.
Jenna and I talked, we satthere on the zoom, he sat there
on the Zoom COVID, zoom Again,covid.
And he said she's like you'regoing to do a podcast, podcast.
She's like, yes, I'm like, okay, so we need a name.
Well, what do you do?
(25:16):
And I'm like, well, we solveproblems, bigger problems, more
challenges, more money.
And I said, well, we look atexpired to every child.
And I said we're the solution.
And then a friend of mine,quentin's colleague, he had a
podcast be generous.
I was like, oh, I like that.
(25:37):
Be the solution, be thesolution, be the solution.
And that's been my mantra sinceApril 1st of 2020.
Be the solution.
Jay Doran (25:47):
I think you've always been that for your clients,
which is why you're sosuccessful.
Maria Quattrone (25:52):
Just named it.
Jay Doran (25:54):
Well, that shows the power of asking questions and
relationships, the alignmentbetween a brand and the actual
culture.
That's like the secret saucethe culture is what actually
happens.
The brand is what we wantpeople to think is possible.
Maria Quattrone (26:10):
True.
Jay Doran (26:12):
Like the culture is in behavior, it's in behavior.
The core.
The value of the core valueexercise is the discovery of
what we stand for and why.
And it's like the discovery,it's a part of the process to
discover ourselves as anorganization and this thing
living by it is a life test.
(26:32):
I believe I failed this.
I was rereading 30 Days ofThought, my first book, which
was written almost seven yearsago, and in the back of the book
there are the core values ofculture matters.
Like the c in culture mattersis collaboration, give first,
intend to help and get started.
(26:52):
Today, unique, you know,learned.
The more you learn, the moreyou earn trust, really trust in
yourself, so you can trustothers.
And I went through the valuesthat I had written down and the
first move make it happen, do itnow a aspire to inspire before
you expire.
And there's a story behind allthese.
Like people I met on planesthat said hey, this one lady
(27:12):
gave me a note and said it saidaspire to inspire before you
expire anyway.
I went through an exercise oflike looking at the values and
saying what grade would I givemyself in each of these?
And I was a failure.
So that's the grade.
But I think if anyone caresabout culture and values on the
call.
It's like the value of thevalues is what we can learn
(27:34):
about ourselves from that andwhat others can give us feedback
.
Pro and con.
There's so much I've learnedfrom Maria, what she said and
how she showed up, ourrelationship, working
relationship over the years, thepersonal friendship that's
blossomed from that on bothsides of it.
It's like there's no greatergift in business than to be able
(27:55):
to work with people, to workand enjoy the process of those
you get to work with.
Like Peter Drucker, the founderof, I think, of management, he
said on the purpose of those youget to work with.
Like Peter Drucker, the founderof, I think, management, he
said the purpose of a businessis to create and keep a customer
.
It's like when we get away fromour customers and we get away
from why we started whichnaturally I think happens as we
(28:18):
grow the business grows and wegrow in our how long we've been
doing.
Whatever we're doing, we canget away from it.
It's happened to me.
It's happened to because Idon't think, just because I'm
trying to especially, you know,research is me, search
psychological term, like justbecause you're a teacher doesn't
(28:39):
mean I'm avoiding.
Or if I have a consultingbusiness doesn't mean that as
the business, we're immune fromthe same things that the
organizations and all thedifferent industries that we
serve would go through.
So there's an organizational,we get away as the organization
grows.
We can get away from thefundamental purpose of a
business and also, as we grow aspeople, we have different life
(28:59):
events.
We age like we can grow awayfrom the center of the business,
which and we could even talkabout real estate like the
purpose of business, like why isit exists, it's about other
people that need goods andservices and naturally we can
get away from that and I guess Ican.
You know, I don't need to shamemyself over that, just be aware
(29:22):
of oh man, I got to get back ontarget.
What's the vision, what's theplan?
Who needs me right now?
Where do I need to be?
Consumer, facing, rightEmployment facing.
So it's just in conversationslike this whether we have this,
this is how we talk when we'renot.
This is a normal conversationfor us.
We're just talking before wehear a report.
You share what you think, Ishare what I think, and then all
(29:48):
sorts of cool things come out.
Maria Quattrone (29:49):
That's just some thoughts that come up when
you share that.
You know, jay, somethingextraordinary happened for you,
I thought.
Jay Doran (29:54):
Anyway, you got to admit, you got to interview
somebody that you highlyrespected, highly respect and dr
jordan peterson and I'm curiousto know what that felt like
there were two jays there todaybackstage, I felt the uh,
(30:16):
overwhelming, um, I'd had theopportunity to meet prior, uh,
but this was a very differentcontext because of the intimacy
of that, being preparing for thestage time.
He asked great questions.
He leans in, he was prepared,he was thinking about the
customer, which is incredible,not just us, because we're,
because the people bringing himin, but who's in the audience.
(30:39):
So his questions were aroundwho's in the audience?
So that's exciting from astandpoint is okay, you've
studied the textbooks, you'veused it.
You haven't yet met the teacherfrom afar.
Who are they?
Because there's who you mightthink they are and then there's
who they are.
So that's inspiring.
I was Dr Peterson is truly ateacher and who you'd hope he'd
(30:59):
be there, and it's like hey, um,I could feel the anxiety and
the excitement of meetingsomeone more deeply that you
admire, that you haven't yetmeet, and it was in my
physiology and my, my X, myenergy.
And hey, would you sign maps ofmeeting?
I've read so many.
It's nice to see a well-wornbook.
Like all of that, there's a fanelement that I'm trying to also
(31:22):
prepare the teacher to presentto these students in the
audience.
So there's that, jay.
It's a very elevated heart.
It's like oh, there's John Wick, I love John Wick movies.
Let me.
There's a fan element thatyou're trying to temper.
But then if anyone hasn't seenthe interview, I would love
feedback on it.
He did a keynote and then I dida keynote.
(31:44):
I sat in the front, took noteson it because I figured as much,
based on the conversation, hewas going to change his talk
based on the conversationbackstage, which he did, because
he gave a different talk basedon the conversation.
I had to throw away the 70 someodd questions that I had, but I
have been preparing for 10months.
Abraham Lincoln said if I havesix hours to chop down a tree,
(32:05):
I'll spend four hours sharpeningmy blade.
So for 10 months I prepared,I'm preparing for a lot of
things all the time and preparebefore we did this, even if
we're not going through thosequestions or those contexts that
I think we might.
I've sacrificed.
I am invested in this show withyou to honor the opportunity to
be on the show.
So I've prepared, so I prepare,and I didn't always prepare, I
(32:27):
prepare, and so the me that wason the stage, the feedback I've
asked from people and thefeedback I've received.
It was a professional, well puttogether dialogue, synthesizing
the keynote, which was veryabstract and educational to
(32:48):
tactical, more tactical, whatthe audience needed.
I was asking questions andtaking notes, but I had been
preparing for months and I thinkthat's an important lesson for
those listening.
I am excited.
There is a selfishness inmeeting someone I admire that
has impacted my life and ourcustomers and our business and
all of these things.
One of the many, but a hugeinfluence, right, because I use
(33:12):
this textbook very, reallydiligently and other resources
to grow as a person and as abusiness owner, as an advisor.
It's benefited everyone,whether they even are aware of
that or not, and so that's anemotional, exciting thing.
But because of the preparation,I was able to do the best
possible job serving thecustomer, honoring the
(33:33):
relationship, not making it allabout me, which it absolutely
hugely is about about me,because this is something that
my ego and attachment is too.
So the preparation helped meshow up in a way that could
provide value and actually iscool.
Just as an aside, if anybody'sinterested, there's a 14 part
series on the culture matterspodcast in the we have it's.
(33:56):
It's between episode nine.
It's in the 900s, I don'trecall the exact number of the
episodes.
There's 40 episodes with anintroduction and an outro.
Chapters or rules, chapters,rules one through 12 of his
third book, beyond Order, 12More Rules for Life.
Part of my preparation was Ireread the book.
I highlighted, I took notes,notes and I've learned all the
(34:20):
rules.
And there's a 10 hour lectureseries on the Culture Irish
podcast of me as a student goingthrough those rules and I was
doing that as part of mypreparation for this opportunity
to so and I grew from that.
That was, that was, that wasexciting, it was fun.
I'm not I think I've grown fromthat.
That was a, that was a, thatwas an exciting, it was fun.
I'm not, I think I've I'vegrown from that process.
(34:41):
So that's on the cultural Irishpodcast and in the nine
hundreds we're almost at athousand episodes.
We will be in August at athousand episodes.
Maria Quattrone (34:48):
So there were two.
Jay Doran (34:48):
J's, there's the, there's the fan, there's the
students and everybody hasheroes.
You know, I was talking to Brad.
He's like what's it like tomeet your heroes?
At first I was thinking I tookit in the wrong way.
But no, he is a hero for sureand I should talk about this.
It is great to meet your heroes.
I actually think to be a heroyou have to meet your heroes and
I don't think a hero canactually let us down.
(35:09):
It can, but to become a hero wehave to meet our heroes and
honor our heroesanmetaphorically met his hero.
How he already knew his hero,how he showed up, wasn't
necessarily the best, based onhis opinion of his hero.
So I think that whole becausethe the sentiment is never meet
(35:30):
your heroes like you want tomeet your heroes and you want to
honor them, even if you knowmaybe they don't live up to
whatever expectation I thinkthat's more of a projection of
the person than it is.
It's like it's not an idolworship here.
It's somebody that you admire.
You want to meet your heroes.
If you want to be a hero, youhave to meet your heroes.
You have to meet them, you haveto honor them, you have to
(35:52):
learn from them.
You have to.
Um, that was a thought that Ihad because a lot of people ask
me.
That was a thought that I hadbecause a lot of people ask me
have you, you know what's itlike to meet your, your hero or
a hero of yours?
It was like it's great, it'samazing, it's opportunity to
have a, to grow in therelationship that I can with my
potential and potentially have amentor, that I'm here because
of my mentors and my students,that I learned from both.
(36:14):
So, man, that that's a longanswer, but that's the right
answer.
I feel good about that answer.
There were two J's there's thefan, there's the student and
then there's the preparedcontemporary, at least in the
sense of company culture.
That's not.
Dr Peterson is a clinicalpsychologist.
(36:37):
I would never consider myself acontemporary to him in that
domain.
That would be weird.
However, I am a subject matterexpert around company culture at
the level that we work at smalland medium-sized businesses,
and that was an opportunity toask someone who I think has a
great brand and knowledge basethat speaks to small,
(37:01):
medium-sized businesses.
That I think we've exemplifiedby using some of his teachings
to help small businesses,whether they knew that was the
case or not.
He's a great breadth ofinformation that could help
small businesses and that's nothis bad.
He wouldn't say, oh, I'm abusiness expert.
He wouldn't say that he's neverpostured something, but he has
a tremendous value to smallbusiness and business expertise.
(37:23):
So it was a.
I hope to do it again.
That's a goal and it was fun tohave an opportunity to share
some of myself again withaudiences.
I get to do on your show,because I feel like Rocky in one
of those movies where he gotfat and like stopped training
and then he had a, lost a bunchand then he had to go back and
(37:45):
like do training and work out.
That's where I believe I'm atin my life right now and I'm
more successful than I've everbeen in so many ways and I feel
like an absolute loser.
So it's like, wow, what a greatopportunity to actually finally
earn the opportunity to workwith a hero.
And it's because of our client.
One of our client partners madeit happen because they wanted
to honor the relationship.
God, I got to be more grateful.
(38:07):
That's rule 12, by the way, inBeyond Order Be grateful in
spite of your suffering.
It ends the book that way, rule12.
Maria Quattrone (38:14):
Be grateful.
I start every day to talk aboutthat, jay.
Be in gratitude.
Not only when you are gratefuland in gratitude will your
vibration elevates, becauseyou're grateful for where you
are.
That doesn't mean that youdon't want more, sure, you can I
want to say something about you.
Jay Doran (38:35):
You have this unbelievable gift of seeing
things in people that havewatched it.
There's probably like untoldamount of agents in this greater
Philadelphia and beyond areaprospective customers to service
your investor and residentialand whatever context clients,
(39:00):
that they're probably spread outall over the country.
Whether they realize it or not,you change the paradigm by
which they operate and, ofcourse, I could say the same for
you as someone that at one timeMaria had me.
She gave me a blow up mattressto borrow so I could have
something to sleep on.
It's like podcast.
We've done on this a couple oftimes.
That'll be a future podcastmaybe, but like you and I think
(39:23):
that if people follow your showand they watch Be the Solution,
they put that together.
But if you'd ever seen the show, that's what you do, you've
been doing it for so long andit's one of the reasons why I
talk to people on the phone andyour name comes up and it's
happened where they said it'sone of the best realtors that's
ever existed in the greaterPhiladelphia market ever.
Why Be the solution?
(39:45):
Living that out, constant fromselling stuff door to door to
radio to whatever You've alwaysbeen top and inspired and
excited people and you know, lpmom, I still remember that
Location, price motivation,agent mortgage closing was like
a script that you had the agentsin the office, me included.
Maria Quattrone (40:09):
Still doing it.
Jay Doran (40:10):
And yeah, that would be a great podcast.
Maria Quattrone (40:13):
We went to new agents because we have a lot of
new agents right now.
We went to daily.
I said, like a shower Got to doit.
You know, you're eitherpracticing with each other or on
the client consumer.
So we're not going to practiceon the consumer, we're going to
practice with each other.
(40:34):
People say, oh, I don't like touse scripts.
Well, I don't care what you doin life, we're doctors.
They have to ask you questions.
The nurse asks you thequestions you get weed.
You do all these things right,it's just the same thing.
We have to ask questions.
We can't help people withoutasking questions.
The better questions we ask,the better we can help make an
(40:55):
impact we can help make animpact, be in contribution, be
the solution.
And with that, yeah, this was somuch fun.
Always a pleasure to have myfriend family to chip and I uh
on the solution and lovespending time with him.
So happy we got to spend timetogether in person today.
(41:19):
This is just a treat Not havingto do it on.
Jay Doran (41:25):
And in person.
For me, this is very specialtoday with you and I love the
conversation.
It made me feel light.
Thank you for the opportunityand I'm hoping that this could
be a foreshadow for me to be theconversation.
It made me feel light.
Thank you for the opportunityand I'm hoping that this could
be a foreshadow for me to be thesolution.
Maria Quattrone (41:43):
Oh, you are ready.
Jay Doran (41:45):
Okay, well, yeah, okay, maybe.
Sorry I'm going to hijack theending of your show.
You just got me excited withthat.
Maria Quattrone (41:52):
Jay will be back on before the end of the
year.
See where he is with all thesewonderful things he has going on
, and, oh, I just love watchinghis journey.
So thank you for sharing.
Jay Doran (42:03):
Thanks, and oh, listen to maria you've been on
the culture matters podcastprobably almost 10 times, almost
really maybe seven.
Type in uh, the culture matterspodcast, maria quattro, and go
listen to all those episodes andthey're unbelievable.
Maria Quattrone (42:20):
And we got to get you on again in July.
Jay Doran (42:21):
So there you go, it's almost 10.
It should be.
It should be.
Maria Quattrone (42:25):
Like I'm upset now.
Jay Doran (42:27):
If it's not 10, then I'm upset at myself.
Maria Quattrone (42:28):
So All right, yeah Well, I'm going to check it
out.
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