May 9, 2025 • 37 mins
Ever wondered what it takes to navigate Philadelphia's complex real estate landscape as a landlord? Sheryl Sitman, founder of Philadelphia Landlords Connect and Real Landlording, offers a refreshing perspective on the challenges and opportunities facing property owners in the City of Brotherly Love.
Sheryl's journey began during the 2009 market downturn, seeking "headache-free" investments before diving into distressed properties in Philadelphia. Like many new investors, she learned painful lessons from costly mistakes and predatory contractors – experiences that fueled her mission to create solutions for other landlords.
When COVID's eviction moratorium threatened landlords' livelihoods, Sheryl built a community that has grown to nearly 3,000 members who help each other navigate Philly's regulatory maze. Unlike other markets where you can simply buy property and rent it out, Philadelphia landlords must obtain rental licenses, lead certifications, rental suitability certificates, and more – creating significant barriers to entry and diverting resources from property improvements.
The disconnect between policymakers and housing economics creates further challenges. Recent proposals to cap rental application fees below the actual cost of credit checks and require security deposits in installments demonstrate fundamental misunderstandings of landlording realities. Meanwhile, thousands of vacant lots owned by the Philadelphia Housing Authority sit unused while potential buyers face insurmountable barriers to purchasing and developing them.
To address these issues, Sheryl is launching a comprehensive website through Real Landlording, designed to support property owners at every stage of their journey. Her goal? Create win-win scenarios where landlords can operate efficiently while properly maintaining their properties and keeping rents reasonable.
"What's good for landlords is usually good for tenants as well," Sheryl emphasizes, challenging the false narrative of landlord-tenant conflict that often dominates policy discussions.
Tune in to hear how successful real estate investing creates freedom to design the lifestyle you want, and discover practical insights for navigating Philadelphia's unique real estate environment.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the Be the Solution podcast, and I'm your
host, maria Quattrone, and todayI have my quote for this
morning.
So what I was thinking about inthe shower was whether you
think you can or think you can.
Either way, you are right.
(00:22):
And this morning we have ourguest, cheryl Sitman, real
Landlording.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
So, cheryl, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much, Maria.
I'm really excited.
I was excited to get theinvitation and I really
appreciate it and lookingforward to our chat.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
My pleasure.
So how I met Cheryl was well,this is our actually first time
meeting online, but she has thisgreat group called Philadelphia
Landlords and always postingall this great information, and
I saw that she runs a group, soI said what better person to
(01:00):
interview than Cheryl aboutwhat's going on in Philadelphia
real estate with tenants andlandlords?
And I'm going to unpack todayhow Cheryl got in the business.
So I'm excited to talk with you.
So tell me okay, what'd you doit?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
So, um well, it's a long story and I'll try to make
it short.
I got into real estate what isit about 15, 16 years ago, when
I wasn't even living in thecountry Just because we knew
that this is something.
It was an opportunity around2009.
I'm sure you remember that as areal estate agent.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Wonderful time to get into the industry.
Lots of opportunity.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Right.
So I started buying someproperty and the most important
thing to me was because I didn'tknow anything about real estate
, nothing about the housingindustry at all, and I just
wanted to make sure I was doingthings that would be headache
free, as though there's such athing.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Headache free okay.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
So I was just buying really stable, safe things not
with great ROI, and accumulatingsome properties, and that was
my introduction to things andunderstanding quite quickly that
there's an amazing opportunity.
So then, around 2016, moved tothe Philadelphia area, which I
(02:30):
was born in Philadelphia, but Ihad moved overseas and started
buying distressed properties andfiguring out pretty much
everything on my own and noteven understanding that there
was someone who could maybementor me or guide me.
I eventually discoveredBiggerPockets things like that
(02:52):
provided some generalinformation but really stumbled
through it, made a lot ofmistakes, got taken advantage of
pretty badly in the first years.
And because of that experience,I'm the kind of person and
that's why I really like thename of your podcast Be the
Solution, because I tend to.
(03:12):
If I figure something out and Ihave the solution, I want to
share it with other peopleBecause, like, why should
anybody be taken advantage of,for example, by a contractor, if
you can avoid it?
Speaker 1 (03:24):
And so, as I learned A lot of that out there.
Still, Cheryl, still, oh it'sterrible, yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
So I am the kind of person who, when I figure
something out, I like to shareit.
And then, back in 2020, duringCOVID, I was freaking out
because there was the talk aboutthe eviction moratorium, and I
remember distinctly thinkingthat on April 1st, nobody's
getting their rent, because theway all the messaging was put
(03:56):
out there was as though nobodyneeds to pay rent anymore, and I
was really afraid that that'show tenants would treat it.
And so I formed this group onFacebook for landlords and I
don't you know what.
I don't even remember the name.
I could look it up, but I don'tremember what I called it.
But it was based aroundmoratorium and what was going on
(04:17):
with COVID at the time, and soit was just a small group of
landlords really good people,who had a lot of information and
helping each other navigatethrough this difficult times.
So that group grew.
Obviously it's calledPhiladelphia landlords connect
and we have almost 3000 peoplein there.
It could be much bigger, butI'm careful about who gets in
(04:39):
there, because we want onlylandlords and to have the
discussion on a on a high level.
I manage it very closely anddon't allow you know all kinds
of you know advertising anddifferent things.
Yes, bam Crazy conversationstrying to keep things you know,
keep politics out of it.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Oh yes, A lot of these groups turned into like
these political things rightright, like everything, always,
that is not the reason why wecame there like help me get pgw.
Do you know right now thatthey've been down for weeks to
submit?
Yeah, it is for the landlordapplication.
(05:22):
Oh, pico, no PGW, okay.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
I didn't know that, okay.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
No, we've been waiting for at least three weeks
and the system's been down.
We can't submit it to get intothe landlord program for a
couple of my properties.
I mean, how does that?
I don't understand Right, doyou?
I don't.
I don't understand a lot ofthings that go on.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I don't understand right, do you?
I I don't.
I don't understand a lot ofthings that go on.
I don't know if it's a Phillything a lot of these systems
that that don't work well.
I remember that until a fewyears ago, I always found that
Pico was really easy to workwith and then they switched over
to a new system.
I I know that's.
I think it's since I think it'sabout a year now that they
(06:08):
haven't straightened things outand that's their excuse all the
time that they moved over to anew infrastructure, technology,
infrastructure and they haven'tbeen able to get their act
together.
So there's people who, like,didn't get bills for many months
and then get surprised with ahuge bill all kinds of horror
stories.
There's no lack of problems.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
There's no lack of problems.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
So be the solution.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Yes, be the solution, lots of solutions to have.
I mean, you have this greatgroup, you know.
I kind of want to dig in alittle bit about what is going
on today in the landlording,like in regards to the city.
And you know, every time I talkto another investor, they're
(06:55):
mad and they're frustrated andthey're sick of it.
And you know, yeah, they'refrustrated because they can't
get people out.
It takes nine months to getthem out.
The tenants don't pay.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, there's a real problem with it's a combination
of policies, politics, aparticular type of what I call
landlord-tenant culture that'sbeen allowed to develop in
Philadelphia, what I calllandlord tenant culture that's
been allowed to develop inPhiladelphia.
And it's interesting becausejust the other night there was
(07:34):
the HAPCO yearly meeting.
So HAPCO, for those who don'tknow, is the advocacy group for
small and mid-sized landlords.
I think it's really important.
Anybody who's a small landlord,whether you have one property
or a hundred properties, shouldbe a member.
It's very reasonably priced andjust to give them that little
(07:54):
bit of boost to have moremembers and have the budget to
advocate for us, because that'sit Nobody else is out there able
to push for.
It's not just about whatlandlords need.
What I always try to explain,especially to politicians, is
what's good for landlords isusually good for tenants as well
(08:16):
.
So it's not a us versus them.
And that's one of the bigproblems is that it's framed as
a battle between landlords andtenants.
So at the event at Hapco theother night, they had some city
council members and you can seewhere the disconnect is very
(08:37):
clearly.
Many city council members thinkthat they're serving their
constituents by fighting againstlandlords, like one of the
recent proposals was to limitthe fee that you can charge for
a application for a rental.
So they want to limit it to $20.
(08:58):
Well, it costs more than thatfor you to run a credit check,
right?
So why should landlords?
My checks just went up too.
So, yeah, I mean these arethings I don't do myself, so I'm
not so familiar with the fees,but I know it's more than $20.
Like, most people are charging$40 or $50 for an application
(09:20):
and it's not a money-makingactivity, it's to cover their
costs.
So when you hear a city councilmember talk about this and you
try and explain to them butnobody's taking advantage of
anybody that's just what itcosts to have to check whether a
tenant has a criminal recordand all these things that we
(09:41):
have to be able to check.
So why does a landlord have toeat the cost?
Think of somebody with one ortwo properties.
They can't lose that money.
But not only that, they alsowant to change the security
deposit requirements to make itthat you have to break it up
(10:01):
into four installments over theyear.
And again, just this totaldisconnect of what's the purpose
of a security deposit andwhat's the reality that many of
us end up needing to keep thatsecurity deposit because the
amount of damage that tenantssometimes do to a property and
it's real, I mean I've hadproperties the security deposit
(10:23):
doesn't come anywhere close tocovering the damage that someone
did.
Most tenants are good, butthere's plenty out there that
are causing a lot of damage.
So a lot of things got said atthe meeting the other night that
it's like, wow, you guys justdon't get it.
Like, are you ever talking tolandlords?
(10:44):
What is it that you're tryingto achieve?
I think it's like, wow, youguys just don't get it.
Like, are you ever talking tolandlords?
What is it that you're tryingto achieve?
I think it's a lot ofmisunderstanding.
Even just basic economics,right.
Like when rent control getsdiscussed and like, ask any
economist out there, rentcontrol actually makes rent go
up because of what happens tothe market when you implement
(11:05):
rent control.
It's been proven in places likeNew York and other cities that
have tried it and it doesn'twork.
But it sounds good, right, thatthe politician can tell their
constituents I'm looking out foryou.
I'm going to make sure thatyour rent doesn't increase too
much.
But if it's not a profitableventure, then landlords are
(11:26):
going to leave, they're going tosell their properties, and you
probably see that happening asan agent.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Well, certainly I have many excuse me, frustrated
investors that do want to exit.
And then there's people thatare buying.
So it's, there's season and areason, right, all right, people
have been in it for a long timeand they're like, yeah, I'm now
(11:53):
just say, I'm now 60, I have 20properties, 30, 40, 50.
I'm not going to sell them allat once, I want to sell five a
year.
I'm going to start the exit now.
So, and there's other peoplethat you know they're looking,
they're asking for portfoliosand they're ready to buy a
hundred units.
So just, yeah, well, itdefinitely is more difficult.
(12:15):
I mean, that's kind ofridiculous that the public
sector wants to put what you canask for whatever you want.
If it's a high-end residence,sometimes they ask for two and
three months security deposit.
There should be, no limitationon what you ask.
It's your property.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Right, it should be more of a free market.
I actually I spoke at the Hapcoevent the other night and I was
trying to convey is that whenyou do open up the market and
you make it easier right, makeit easier easier to become a
landlord, reduce the costs thatlandlords need to invest in
(12:57):
order to get their propertiescompliant and rented, then rent
goes down.
So you know, I gave someexamples, like you know, example
that's totally unrelated toreal estate, but like because I
was looking for differentexamples of industries and that
have happened in the market thatmade prices go down.
(13:19):
So a good example is thehearing aid industry and it used
to be highly regulated and youhad to get a hearing aid.
You had to get a prescription,which meant you had to go to the
doctor and then only certaincompanies could, so a hearing
aid was like four thousanddollars.
Well, now they changed the lawsa couple years ago so you can.
Hearing aid is much moreaffordable, which means what
(13:41):
More people who have hearingdisabilities can get hearing
aids, and isn't that a good?
That's a good thing.
It didn't make anything moredangerous, and so a lot of the
in Philadelphia are presumablyto make our housing safer, and
what I want to ask thepoliticians is like have you
noticed Philadelphia housing isnot nicer or safer than other
(14:05):
cities where they don't have asmuch regulation?
In fact, in some ways it's theopposite, because landlords are
spending so much money oncompliance instead of on fixing
their properties.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Yeah, there's only so much in the kitty, there's only
so much money to go around, andif you think about it it's like
, okay, you got a trash fee,rental license, you know if you
have to pay for PICO, if it's inthe hallways, you know if it's
multifamily, and then you haveyour maintenance and you have
(14:38):
your vacancy costs and you haveyour accounting and you have
your attorney and you haveleasing fees.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
And also the, the, the, the, every step that you
have to take, it's, it's, I tellpeople cause I, I, it's in
multiple States.
And in the earlier days, afterhaving gone through what I had
to go through in Philadelphia tobecome a landlord, it was
natural for me to ask, in everyplay, every market that I
entered, what do I need to do torent my property?
(15:09):
And in so many places I justgot this blank stare Like what
are you talking about?
You bought the property, nowrent it.
What do you think you need todo?
I'm like well, don't I have toget a ID and a rental
suitability certificate and acommercial license and a rental
license.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Don't forget the lead certification, the new one that
they you know a few years,however many years ago, right.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
You have to get the, so you have to.
You have to find someone to dothe, the testing.
Then they get you the the testright and you have to upload it
to a special site on thephiladelphia gov millions of
sites it's, it is, uh, it's alot.
(15:55):
Yep, it's a lot, and so it'simportant to like keep at it of
letting the politicians knowthis is not good for anybody.
It's it's making I canguarantee you it's not making
housing safer.
I compare what I can rent in inphiladelphia, like for, say you
know, a typical three bed sayI'm getting one thousand eight
(16:19):
hundred dollars a month.
In other states, for for amonth I'm bringing out brand new
properties, sometimes like incommunities that have pools and
pickleball, and you get so muchmore for your money in other
markets where it's easier to bea landlord and to own property.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
You see people wanting to invest in other areas
.
A lot of developments evenmoved to New Jersey and Bing and
Lancaster places outside of thecity.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Philadelphia.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
I'm born and raised my whole life and been in this
industry for 21 years, and it'snot an easy city for business
owners.
They've never made it easy.
You know there's not a lot of.
We don't have a lot of largecorporations here.
A lot of them moved out.
(17:18):
You know the birth taxes.
You know you can go on and on,but it's not business friendly
right and there are many peoplelike myself that are out there,
you know, hitting the payment,saying as you when are you going
to change like, when are yougoing to get it?
Speaker 2 (17:35):
so well, it does seem that the mayor parker has a
better vision and I I understandlike she brings a lot of people
in who are business orientedand it sounds like, I mean, some
goods are happening and havehappened and I have a good
(17:55):
amount of optimism.
I think that it's reallyimportant for people to make you
know, just make their voicesheard, and there's always going
to look, philadelphia has a lotof wonderful things, right.
I mean, you live in the city,you know, like, how great the
food is and you know being it'sa very walkable city and all the
(18:18):
interesting neighborhoods Likeit's a really rich and diverse
place.
So it's not going away, that'sfor sure.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
No, no, I mean, these are that are, you know, more so
for people in the business ofPhiladelphia.
I mean, living in Philadelphiais definitely becoming better
than it was.
There was a lot of people thathad exited like any other big
city during COVID.
It's nothing unusual, it's allover the entire world, not just
(18:50):
Philadelphia.
But people wanted to be awayfrom big cities.
They wanted to have more space.
You know a lot of people thatwere downtown.
They moved to their shorehouses and at the Jersey Shore
you know Margate, avalon, stoneHarbor, longport, and these
(19:12):
people also that did thatfull-time move were towards the
end of their careers.
So more of empty nesters, moreaffluent people that made that
move.
So you do see a sector of thosepeople who didn't are not
coming back.
They're just not Right, youknow.
But there's new people thatmove in.
We have every year residentsyou know Philadelphia's eds and
(19:35):
meds, big industry years.
We have residents that come,residents that go, right.
They're here for four years,five years, six years, whatever
they're, depending on theirprogram.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
What if John Fry being made president of Temple
University?
Do you think that he's going tohave an impact in North
Philadelphia?
Speaker 1 (19:57):
I mean, I would hope so because it is not great
around there Right and I sell alot of real estate in that area
and I went to Temple in whatyear?
Early 90s, that was at Textheland then Temple, so that was 90.
(20:18):
And it's not that much bettertoday.
Campus is bigger, campus isbetter, but talking about in the
area surrounding, they reallyneed to make that part of temple
Right, to make temple better,because it is.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Well, I look at, look , I spent University of
Pennsylvania in the 80s, in thelate and or maybe actually I
think it was the early 90s, butum, and what I remember is that
it was considered the mostdangerous campus in the country.
And look at it today and lookat what university city has
become.
And it's my understanding thatJohn Fry had a lot to do with
(21:03):
Trexel and Penn.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Yes, 100%.
But look, that's the thing.
Look what Penn did and Templelooks exactly the same as it did
30 years ago or 30, howevermany years, what's that?
90 and how many years?
Is that Too long ago?
Aging ourselves?
Not supposed to be doing thatthis morning, but I guess it's
(21:26):
30 years or 35 years or whateverit is, but it's not changed.
I'm there, I was just there theother day, and I hope, I hope
that people, students in the,the community there, that they
really figure this out.
He right, if anybody can figureit out he can right, okay.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
well, it seems that you know, talking about change,
um, someone said something veryinteresting.
I I don't remember um it was,but I, I, oh, um an event where
I this is terrible.
I remember his name, kevinsomething, who's at there's a
Drexel like institute.
What, kevin, gillian, right?
(22:12):
So he pointed out how, if youdon't have whatever you want to
call it change gentrification ofwhatever you want to call it
change gentrification, it's notthat things then the alternative
is that we'll stay the same.
Things get worse and it's a fact.
(22:34):
I mean, I see it everywhere.
So all of these, theneighborhood groups and some of
the decision makers andinfluencers who try to resist
change, they're really doing adisservice.
It could be you don't want aparticular, like you know, a
high-rise building in the middleof a residential neighborhood
or you know some kinds ofcommercial activities, but you
(22:58):
have to allow, like developersaren't evil, these are the
people and companies are fixingthe city and otherwise things
are just going to keep fallingapart.
You can see it like look at anyvacant property.
It doesn't stay the same.
It's like a structure isactually a living creature that
(23:21):
will slowly deteriorate.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
That's right, that is correct.
It does not stay the same andyou know a lot of developers
have moved their money otherplaces and it's not big.
It's hard to even make a dealpencil out today, Right, Right.
So we've seen least amount ofpermits pulled in something like
(23:45):
30 years, so yeah part of it,you know.
I think that Mayor Parker isreally, you know, out there
doing the work and working onmaking things better, but it's.
It comes down to council peopleand the fact that there's this
councilmanic prerogative is abig problem in Philadelphia, and
(24:08):
those are the people that Iknow they want to have like
they're protecting theirconstituents, but they're really
not and they hold things backin neighborhoods.
They have too much control andthat should be wiped out of the
charter.
I've been saying that samething, stance, for 21 years and
I believe that they can controlproperty that the city owns gets
(24:34):
developed or not.
They have to sign off on it.
They're the hold up with moredevelopment happening, more
properties that first-timebuyers can buy.
They're the hold up with moredevelopment happening, more
properties that can thatfirst-time buyers can buy.
They're the hold up becauseit's in the land bank and they
have to sign off on it and a lotof times they don't want to
(24:55):
right and who were them.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
That's it's, you know it's for like someone like me
that's um far less involved thanthan than i'm'm sure, in the
day-to-day of like the laws anddevelopments that are going on
in Philadelphia.
But when you walk around andyou see all these empty lots and
you see vacant properties and alot of it is owned by PHA Like
(25:19):
I was surprised.
I have a property that had alot of next to it and somebody
was just using it to store theirjunk and so I wanted to get rid
of it, because why should mytenant have to live next to a
junkyard?
And I was really surprised tofind out that PHA owns the lot
(25:39):
and I'm like let me buy it.
What are you doing with it Otherthan letting it become a
junkyard?
Let me buy it, but there's noway for me to do that.
I think if I live house, thenthere would be some kind of
option maybe for me to buy it,but there's no way for me to do
that.
I think if I, if I live house,then there would be some kind of
option maybe for me to buy it,but because I am a investor,
landlord, I can't better to haveit just sit there and collect
trash.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
There's new logic, that's I would buy it and do
something with it I've run upagainst this for so many years.
Like it's just sickening.
It really is.
They have a program called Turnthe Key now, but you have to
have you can't, you have to havea lot of experience.
There's an RFP that goes out.
(26:21):
It's a whole big thing.
They are, though, buildingthese houses where buyers can
buy them for like a brand newconstruction for $280,000.
There's all kinds of grantsavailable as well Philly First.
There's also grant from likeWistvis has one for 10,000.
You marry the two.
(26:42):
Very little money out of pocketfor them.
The kicker is they hold it for15 years, otherwise, when they
sell it, they cannot get theequity from it because there's a
soft second of $90,000 againstit.
You're really getting amortgage of $200,000, $190,000,
(27:02):
the mortgage, but there areincome in regards to that.
But that's also part of theland bank program and the
council people have to sign offon this land.
But you see them how much thereare.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Right, oh yeah, thousands, maybe tens of
thousands, no, no, Tens ofthousands, right, right.
So it's interesting becausewhat happens is a situation
created where there's thiscomplex web of programs and
opportunities and laws andregulations and all these things
(27:42):
that the average person or eventhe average investor there's no
way they're going to know allthese things right, and that you
offer these services andknowledge that can help somebody
navigate it as a real estate.
And I'm trying on my end to putyou know, get the knowledge out
(28:04):
there.
So one of the things that outthere, so one of the things that
you know.
I try in the Philadelphia group, as I gather information, I try
to put it out there, and Irealized like it needs to be put
into a more organized way.
Actually, like Philadelphia hasa lot of good websites, the
(28:25):
government to put outinformation.
When you get there you realizelike it's really hard to
understand.
So I'll give like a basicexample.
There's a lot of programs fortenants out there that can help
them with utilities, with rent,all kinds of things.
When I go and look at thesethings I'm like I don't know
(28:46):
what to do.
There's no, if I can't figureit out, probably the tenant
can't figure it out either, orit might not be just about
figuring it out, it's just verycomplicated.
You have to send in thisdocument, that document, and
it's like this or that.
That's correct, yeah, sothere's a lot of money out there
(29:07):
that goes totally unused.
I'm sure that there's like noneof these programs that get
funding end up being able to domost of the funding because of
that barrier to entry.
So one of the things that Iwant to do so I've established,
(29:28):
like this entity called RealLandlording and actually soon
we're going to launch a newwebsite.
It's already and we're justdebugging it now.
So we're talking about withindays or a week or so that we'll
launch and the idea is thatanywhere where a landlord is on
(30:01):
their journey whether theyhaven't even started buying
properties yet and needconsulting and help in analyzing
properties and all of that kindof thing um, how to you know
how to design it to for for forthe tenants?
Um, how to get the work donehiring contractors or hiring
maintenance people every step ofthe way that they can come to
the real landlording website andfind a solution that that
(30:25):
that's a reliable solution.
And, like I was, you know, Iknew before we actually started
the podcast that in my journey Ifound that I got severely taken
advantage of in my early years.
I lost quite a bit of money tosome corrupt I don't know what
to call them I have I have somethat I won't use here
(30:47):
contractors that took advantageof me and it was clear like they
knew as soon as they startedtalking to me.
This woman knows nothing andI'm taking advantage of that.
Okay, they know, they know asyou open your mouth, whether you
know or not, and there's,unfortunately, people who will
take advantage of that and that,because I'm through that, I
(31:09):
really sincerely feel like otherpeople should not go through
that and and that because I'mthrough that, I really sincerely
feel like other people shouldnot go through that, if I can
help them to avoid it.
And it's not that hard to avoidit once you have some knowledge
and connections and things likethat.
So I want you know, I want tohave landlords be better
(31:29):
landlords and be able to managethemselves through different
challenges and just the basicthat you need to do in order to
be a good landlord or investor.
But that has a win-win orwin-win-win, because it's better
for investors to increase theirbottom line, but that also
(31:54):
helps the tenant because if yourexpenses decrease and it's
easier for you to be a landlord,you can manage your rent not
just your rent better, but thenyou have money to invest in the
property to keep it maintained.
There's nothing worse than likehaving you know if you have
you're a tenant and you have alandlord who's struggling
financially and and there'sissues that you have in the
(32:16):
house.
It might not be that you knowthat they're a bad person, that
they don't get things taken careof.
It could be they don't have thefunds to do it.
Indeed, indeed.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
So that's exciting, have your website launching.
I guess you're creating acommunity, basically, yeah, a
community and a network thatpeople can rely on, that's
awesome.
Yeah, yeah, I think that'sawesome, that's pretty good and
that's going to launch in thenext couple of weeks, next week
or two.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
It should be within a week, but I'll be letting you
know.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Ah, very exciting.
Lots, lots of be the solutionsgoing on.
Exactly be the solution,exactly exactly.
We have so many other things,cheryl, that I would love to
talk to you about in the future.
In regards to, like you know,how people can do it, like how
can they get in the business,I'd like to schedule a time when
(33:11):
we can unpack that and do acase study.
For sure I would love to dothat.
That would be super cool, andthen you could put it on your
website too, yeah, you could dothat.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
I'll have to interview one of these days.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
I'm ready any day, Ready to bring it you got to
have I'm always ready Energy,enthusiasm, regardless of
whatever's around us.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
I'll ask you this question, cheryl what are you
and maybe you're going to tellme the website most excited
about for you, for your personalfuture?
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Well, for real personal.
So, like I said, I used to liveand when I moved here, I moved
here with my youngest child, whoat the time was a junior in
high school.
But my other two kids stillremained overseas and just a few
months ago one of them andmoved over with her husband.
(34:07):
So she's here now.
So I have two out of three hereclose by and in the summer, my
third child along with mygrandson and his wife to move
here.
So that's for me the ultimate.
There's nothing more importantthan family and everything I
(34:28):
mean.
I know it sounds cliche, buteverything I do is about family.
It's having the resources tohelp family and spend time with
family and it's about making alifestyle the podcast that
through real estate andinvesting, you can have more
(34:51):
control over your life and shapethe kind of lifestyle that you
want to have.
So that's what I'm excitedabout having my kids nearby.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Nothing better than having family.
Really I mean family'severything.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Everything.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Yeah, so last question for you, guilty
pleasure.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Ooh, Wow, you didn't prepare me for this.
Guilty pleasure, yeah, I guess.
In general it goes back to thislike having control of my time.
So I sense from that you'rekind of this too, because you
scheduled this podcast for 730in the morning.
(35:31):
So you like to make use of yourtime and fill your days, and I
definitely am like that as well.
But because I do have controlof my time, that I can set days
where it's like this is mine,set days where it's like this is
mine If I want to sleep in, ifI want to spend a stupid amount
(35:55):
of time I don't know at the gymhiking or watching TV on the
sofa, whatever it is, and Idon't have to feel guilty about
it.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
So doing what you want when you want, because you
create the life that you want tohave.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Yeah, exactly, but not taking that doesn't mean
every day just doing want whenyou want, because you create the
life that you want to haveexactly.
But not like, not taking like.
That doesn't mean every dayjust doing whatever well, of
course, then you wouldn't haveany business right, it's like
and it wouldn't be satisfying,because when you do it too much
it's just like I don't know.
It doesn't feel good.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
I said to have the office.
I said like if I'm sick it'shorrible because I have to be at
the house.
You can't like infect peopleand it is the worst.
Like I could stay at the housefor like three hours, uh-huh,
maybe five, but after that it'slike stir crazy.
Uh, if I'm not sleeping it'sbad right yeah, well, we're so.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
We're social.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Social beings need to be around people we are and if
it was like, oh, if I wasn'tsick, like it'd be fine, right,
like you'd have something to do,but now I'm not a good sick
person like saying, and I'd liketo be out and about, but this
is a great podcast.
I appreciate you, cheryl, andlooking forward to having you on
(37:07):
again and looking forward togetting to know you.
Yeah, me too.
I really hopefully.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
I really appreciate this.
A new friend.
Yeah, we're going to have tohave a coffee, absolutely A good
Italian coffee, that's right.
This is the Be the Solution podcast, and I'm your
host, maria Quattrone, and todayI have my quote for this
morning.
So what I was thinking about inthe shower was whether you
think you can or think you can.
Either way, you are right.
(00:22):
And this morning we have ourguest, cheryl Sitman, real
Landlording.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
So, cheryl, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much, Maria.
I'm really excited.
I was excited to get theinvitation and I really
appreciate it and lookingforward to our chat.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
My pleasure.
So how I met Cheryl was well,this is our actually first time
meeting online, but she has thisgreat group called Philadelphia
Landlords and always postingall this great information, and
I saw that she runs a group, soI said what better person to
(01:00):
interview than Cheryl aboutwhat's going on in Philadelphia
real estate with tenants andlandlords?
And I'm going to unpack todayhow Cheryl got in the business.
So I'm excited to talk with you.
So tell me okay, what'd you doit?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
So, um well, it's a long story and I'll try to make
it short.
I got into real estate what isit about 15, 16 years ago, when
I wasn't even living in thecountry Just because we knew
that this is something.
It was an opportunity around2009.
I'm sure you remember that as areal estate agent.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Wonderful time to get into the industry.
Lots of opportunity.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Right.
So I started buying someproperty and the most important
thing to me was because I didn'tknow anything about real estate
, nothing about the housingindustry at all, and I just
wanted to make sure I was doingthings that would be headache
free, as though there's such athing.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Headache free okay.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
So I was just buying really stable, safe things not
with great ROI, and accumulatingsome properties, and that was
my introduction to things andunderstanding quite quickly that
there's an amazing opportunity.
So then, around 2016, moved tothe Philadelphia area, which I
(02:30):
was born in Philadelphia, but Ihad moved overseas and started
buying distressed properties andfiguring out pretty much
everything on my own and noteven understanding that there
was someone who could maybementor me or guide me.
I eventually discoveredBiggerPockets things like that
(02:52):
provided some generalinformation but really stumbled
through it, made a lot ofmistakes, got taken advantage of
pretty badly in the first years.
And because of that experience,I'm the kind of person and
that's why I really like thename of your podcast Be the
Solution, because I tend to.
(03:12):
If I figure something out and Ihave the solution, I want to
share it with other peopleBecause, like, why should
anybody be taken advantage of,for example, by a contractor, if
you can avoid it?
Speaker 1 (03:24):
And so, as I learned A lot of that out there.
Still, Cheryl, still, oh it'sterrible, yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
So I am the kind of person who, when I figure
something out, I like to shareit.
And then, back in 2020, duringCOVID, I was freaking out
because there was the talk aboutthe eviction moratorium, and I
remember distinctly thinkingthat on April 1st, nobody's
getting their rent, because theway all the messaging was put
(03:56):
out there was as though nobodyneeds to pay rent anymore, and I
was really afraid that that'show tenants would treat it.
And so I formed this group onFacebook for landlords and I
don't you know what.
I don't even remember the name.
I could look it up, but I don'tremember what I called it.
But it was based aroundmoratorium and what was going on
(04:17):
with COVID at the time, and soit was just a small group of
landlords really good people,who had a lot of information and
helping each other navigatethrough this difficult times.
So that group grew.
Obviously it's calledPhiladelphia landlords connect
and we have almost 3000 peoplein there.
It could be much bigger, butI'm careful about who gets in
(04:39):
there, because we want onlylandlords and to have the
discussion on a on a high level.
I manage it very closely anddon't allow you know all kinds
of you know advertising anddifferent things.
Yes, bam Crazy conversationstrying to keep things you know,
keep politics out of it.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Oh yes, A lot of these groups turned into like
these political things rightright, like everything, always,
that is not the reason why wecame there like help me get pgw.
Do you know right now thatthey've been down for weeks to
submit?
Yeah, it is for the landlordapplication.
(05:22):
Oh, pico, no PGW, okay.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
I didn't know that, okay.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
No, we've been waiting for at least three weeks
and the system's been down.
We can't submit it to get intothe landlord program for a
couple of my properties.
I mean, how does that?
I don't understand Right, doyou?
I don't.
I don't understand a lot ofthings that go on.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I don't understand right, do you?
I I don't.
I don't understand a lot ofthings that go on.
I don't know if it's a Phillything a lot of these systems
that that don't work well.
I remember that until a fewyears ago, I always found that
Pico was really easy to workwith and then they switched over
to a new system.
I I know that's.
I think it's since I think it'sabout a year now that they
(06:08):
haven't straightened things outand that's their excuse all the
time that they moved over to anew infrastructure, technology,
infrastructure and they haven'tbeen able to get their act
together.
So there's people who, like,didn't get bills for many months
and then get surprised with ahuge bill all kinds of horror
stories.
There's no lack of problems.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
There's no lack of problems.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
So be the solution.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Yes, be the solution, lots of solutions to have.
I mean, you have this greatgroup, you know.
I kind of want to dig in alittle bit about what is going
on today in the landlording,like in regards to the city.
And you know, every time I talkto another investor, they're
(06:55):
mad and they're frustrated andthey're sick of it.
And you know, yeah, they'refrustrated because they can't
get people out.
It takes nine months to getthem out.
The tenants don't pay.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, there's a real problem with it's a combination
of policies, politics, aparticular type of what I call
landlord-tenant culture that'sbeen allowed to develop in
Philadelphia, what I calllandlord tenant culture that's
been allowed to develop inPhiladelphia.
And it's interesting becausejust the other night there was
(07:34):
the HAPCO yearly meeting.
So HAPCO, for those who don'tknow, is the advocacy group for
small and mid-sized landlords.
I think it's really important.
Anybody who's a small landlord,whether you have one property
or a hundred properties, shouldbe a member.
It's very reasonably priced andjust to give them that little
(07:54):
bit of boost to have moremembers and have the budget to
advocate for us, because that'sit Nobody else is out there able
to push for.
It's not just about whatlandlords need.
What I always try to explain,especially to politicians, is
what's good for landlords isusually good for tenants as well
(08:16):
.
So it's not a us versus them.
And that's one of the bigproblems is that it's framed as
a battle between landlords andtenants.
So at the event at Hapco theother night, they had some city
council members and you can seewhere the disconnect is very
(08:37):
clearly.
Many city council members thinkthat they're serving their
constituents by fighting againstlandlords, like one of the
recent proposals was to limitthe fee that you can charge for
a application for a rental.
So they want to limit it to $20.
(08:58):
Well, it costs more than thatfor you to run a credit check,
right?
So why should landlords?
My checks just went up too.
So, yeah, I mean these arethings I don't do myself, so I'm
not so familiar with the fees,but I know it's more than $20.
Like, most people are charging$40 or $50 for an application
(09:20):
and it's not a money-makingactivity, it's to cover their
costs.
So when you hear a city councilmember talk about this and you
try and explain to them butnobody's taking advantage of
anybody that's just what itcosts to have to check whether a
tenant has a criminal recordand all these things that we
(09:41):
have to be able to check.
So why does a landlord have toeat the cost?
Think of somebody with one ortwo properties.
They can't lose that money.
But not only that, they alsowant to change the security
deposit requirements to make itthat you have to break it up
(10:01):
into four installments over theyear.
And again, just this totaldisconnect of what's the purpose
of a security deposit andwhat's the reality that many of
us end up needing to keep thatsecurity deposit because the
amount of damage that tenantssometimes do to a property and
it's real, I mean I've hadproperties the security deposit
(10:23):
doesn't come anywhere close tocovering the damage that someone
did.
Most tenants are good, butthere's plenty out there that
are causing a lot of damage.
So a lot of things got said atthe meeting the other night that
it's like, wow, you guys justdon't get it.
Like, are you ever talking tolandlords?
(10:44):
What is it that you're tryingto achieve?
I think it's like, wow, youguys just don't get it.
Like, are you ever talking tolandlords?
What is it that you're tryingto achieve?
I think it's a lot ofmisunderstanding.
Even just basic economics,right.
Like when rent control getsdiscussed and like, ask any
economist out there, rentcontrol actually makes rent go
up because of what happens tothe market when you implement
(11:05):
rent control.
It's been proven in places likeNew York and other cities that
have tried it and it doesn'twork.
But it sounds good, right, thatthe politician can tell their
constituents I'm looking out foryou.
I'm going to make sure thatyour rent doesn't increase too
much.
But if it's not a profitableventure, then landlords are
(11:26):
going to leave, they're going tosell their properties, and you
probably see that happening asan agent.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Well, certainly I have many excuse me, frustrated
investors that do want to exit.
And then there's people thatare buying.
So it's, there's season and areason, right, all right, people
have been in it for a long timeand they're like, yeah, I'm now
(11:53):
just say, I'm now 60, I have 20properties, 30, 40, 50.
I'm not going to sell them allat once, I want to sell five a
year.
I'm going to start the exit now.
So, and there's other peoplethat you know they're looking,
they're asking for portfoliosand they're ready to buy a
hundred units.
So just, yeah, well, itdefinitely is more difficult.
(12:15):
I mean, that's kind ofridiculous that the public
sector wants to put what you canask for whatever you want.
If it's a high-end residence,sometimes they ask for two and
three months security deposit.
There should be, no limitationon what you ask.
It's your property.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Right, it should be more of a free market.
I actually I spoke at the Hapcoevent the other night and I was
trying to convey is that whenyou do open up the market and
you make it easier right, makeit easier easier to become a
landlord, reduce the costs thatlandlords need to invest in
(12:57):
order to get their propertiescompliant and rented, then rent
goes down.
So you know, I gave someexamples, like you know, example
that's totally unrelated toreal estate, but like because I
was looking for differentexamples of industries and that
have happened in the market thatmade prices go down.
(13:19):
So a good example is thehearing aid industry and it used
to be highly regulated and youhad to get a hearing aid.
You had to get a prescription,which meant you had to go to the
doctor and then only certaincompanies could, so a hearing
aid was like four thousanddollars.
Well, now they changed the lawsa couple years ago so you can.
Hearing aid is much moreaffordable, which means what
(13:41):
More people who have hearingdisabilities can get hearing
aids, and isn't that a good?
That's a good thing.
It didn't make anything moredangerous, and so a lot of the
in Philadelphia are presumablyto make our housing safer, and
what I want to ask thepoliticians is like have you
noticed Philadelphia housing isnot nicer or safer than other
(14:05):
cities where they don't have asmuch regulation?
In fact, in some ways it's theopposite, because landlords are
spending so much money oncompliance instead of on fixing
their properties.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Yeah, there's only so much in the kitty, there's only
so much money to go around, andif you think about it it's like
, okay, you got a trash fee,rental license, you know if you
have to pay for PICO, if it's inthe hallways, you know if it's
multifamily, and then you haveyour maintenance and you have
(14:38):
your vacancy costs and you haveyour accounting and you have
your attorney and you haveleasing fees.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
And also the, the, the, the, every step that you
have to take, it's, it's, I tellpeople cause I, I, it's in
multiple States.
And in the earlier days, afterhaving gone through what I had
to go through in Philadelphia tobecome a landlord, it was
natural for me to ask, in everyplay, every market that I
entered, what do I need to do torent my property?
(15:09):
And in so many places I justgot this blank stare Like what
are you talking about?
You bought the property, nowrent it.
What do you think you need todo?
I'm like well, don't I have toget a ID and a rental
suitability certificate and acommercial license and a rental
license.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Don't forget the lead certification, the new one that
they you know a few years,however many years ago, right.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
You have to get the, so you have to.
You have to find someone to dothe, the testing.
Then they get you the the testright and you have to upload it
to a special site on thephiladelphia gov millions of
sites it's, it is, uh, it's alot.
(15:55):
Yep, it's a lot, and so it'simportant to like keep at it of
letting the politicians knowthis is not good for anybody.
It's it's making I canguarantee you it's not making
housing safer.
I compare what I can rent in inphiladelphia, like for, say you
know, a typical three bed sayI'm getting one thousand eight
(16:19):
hundred dollars a month.
In other states, for for amonth I'm bringing out brand new
properties, sometimes like incommunities that have pools and
pickleball, and you get so muchmore for your money in other
markets where it's easier to bea landlord and to own property.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
You see people wanting to invest in other areas
.
A lot of developments evenmoved to New Jersey and Bing and
Lancaster places outside of thecity.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Philadelphia.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
I'm born and raised my whole life and been in this
industry for 21 years, and it'snot an easy city for business
owners.
They've never made it easy.
You know there's not a lot of.
We don't have a lot of largecorporations here.
A lot of them moved out.
(17:18):
You know the birth taxes.
You know you can go on and on,but it's not business friendly
right and there are many peoplelike myself that are out there,
you know, hitting the payment,saying as you when are you going
to change like, when are yougoing to get it?
Speaker 2 (17:35):
so well, it does seem that the mayor parker has a
better vision and I I understandlike she brings a lot of people
in who are business orientedand it sounds like, I mean, some
goods are happening and havehappened and I have a good
(17:55):
amount of optimism.
I think that it's reallyimportant for people to make you
know, just make their voicesheard, and there's always going
to look, philadelphia has a lotof wonderful things, right.
I mean, you live in the city,you know, like, how great the
food is and you know being it'sa very walkable city and all the
(18:18):
interesting neighborhoods Likeit's a really rich and diverse
place.
So it's not going away, that'sfor sure.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
No, no, I mean, these are that are, you know, more so
for people in the business ofPhiladelphia.
I mean, living in Philadelphiais definitely becoming better
than it was.
There was a lot of people thathad exited like any other big
city during COVID.
It's nothing unusual, it's allover the entire world, not just
(18:50):
Philadelphia.
But people wanted to be awayfrom big cities.
They wanted to have more space.
You know a lot of people thatwere downtown.
They moved to their shorehouses and at the Jersey Shore
you know Margate, avalon, stoneHarbor, longport, and these
(19:12):
people also that did thatfull-time move were towards the
end of their careers.
So more of empty nesters, moreaffluent people that made that
move.
So you do see a sector of thosepeople who didn't are not
coming back.
They're just not Right, youknow.
But there's new people thatmove in.
We have every year residentsyou know Philadelphia's eds and
(19:35):
meds, big industry years.
We have residents that come,residents that go, right.
They're here for four years,five years, six years, whatever
they're, depending on theirprogram.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
What if John Fry being made president of Temple
University?
Do you think that he's going tohave an impact in North
Philadelphia?
Speaker 1 (19:57):
I mean, I would hope so because it is not great
around there Right and I sell alot of real estate in that area
and I went to Temple in whatyear?
Early 90s, that was at Textheland then Temple, so that was 90.
(20:18):
And it's not that much bettertoday.
Campus is bigger, campus isbetter, but talking about in the
area surrounding, they reallyneed to make that part of temple
Right, to make temple better,because it is.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Well, I look at, look , I spent University of
Pennsylvania in the 80s, in thelate and or maybe actually I
think it was the early 90s, butum, and what I remember is that
it was considered the mostdangerous campus in the country.
And look at it today and lookat what university city has
become.
And it's my understanding thatJohn Fry had a lot to do with
(21:03):
Trexel and Penn.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Yes, 100%.
But look, that's the thing.
Look what Penn did and Templelooks exactly the same as it did
30 years ago or 30, howevermany years, what's that?
90 and how many years?
Is that Too long ago?
Aging ourselves?
Not supposed to be doing thatthis morning, but I guess it's
(21:26):
30 years or 35 years or whateverit is, but it's not changed.
I'm there, I was just there theother day, and I hope, I hope
that people, students in the,the community there, that they
really figure this out.
He right, if anybody can figureit out he can right, okay.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
well, it seems that you know, talking about change,
um, someone said something veryinteresting.
I I don't remember um it was,but I, I, oh, um an event where
I this is terrible.
I remember his name, kevinsomething, who's at there's a
Drexel like institute.
What, kevin, gillian, right?
(22:12):
So he pointed out how, if youdon't have whatever you want to
call it change gentrification ofwhatever you want to call it
change gentrification, it's notthat things then the alternative
is that we'll stay the same.
Things get worse and it's a fact.
(22:34):
I mean, I see it everywhere.
So all of these, theneighborhood groups and some of
the decision makers andinfluencers who try to resist
change, they're really doing adisservice.
It could be you don't want aparticular, like you know, a
high-rise building in the middleof a residential neighborhood
or you know some kinds ofcommercial activities, but you
(22:58):
have to allow, like developersaren't evil, these are the
people and companies are fixingthe city and otherwise things
are just going to keep fallingapart.
You can see it like look at anyvacant property.
It doesn't stay the same.
It's like a structure isactually a living creature that
(23:21):
will slowly deteriorate.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
That's right, that is correct.
It does not stay the same andyou know a lot of developers
have moved their money otherplaces and it's not big.
It's hard to even make a dealpencil out today, Right, Right.
So we've seen least amount ofpermits pulled in something like
(23:45):
30 years, so yeah part of it,you know.
I think that Mayor Parker isreally, you know, out there
doing the work and working onmaking things better, but it's.
It comes down to council peopleand the fact that there's this
councilmanic prerogative is abig problem in Philadelphia, and
(24:08):
those are the people that Iknow they want to have like
they're protecting theirconstituents, but they're really
not and they hold things backin neighborhoods.
They have too much control andthat should be wiped out of the
charter.
I've been saying that samething, stance, for 21 years and
I believe that they can controlproperty that the city owns gets
(24:34):
developed or not.
They have to sign off on it.
They're the hold up with moredevelopment happening, more
properties that first-timebuyers can buy.
They're the hold up with moredevelopment happening, more
properties that can thatfirst-time buyers can buy.
They're the hold up becauseit's in the land bank and they
have to sign off on it and a lotof times they don't want to
(24:55):
right and who were them.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
That's it's, you know it's for like someone like me
that's um far less involved thanthan than i'm'm sure, in the
day-to-day of like the laws anddevelopments that are going on
in Philadelphia.
But when you walk around andyou see all these empty lots and
you see vacant properties and alot of it is owned by PHA Like
(25:19):
I was surprised.
I have a property that had alot of next to it and somebody
was just using it to store theirjunk and so I wanted to get rid
of it, because why should mytenant have to live next to a
junkyard?
And I was really surprised tofind out that PHA owns the lot
(25:39):
and I'm like let me buy it.
What are you doing with it Otherthan letting it become a
junkyard?
Let me buy it, but there's noway for me to do that.
I think if I live house, thenthere would be some kind of
option maybe for me to buy it,but there's no way for me to do
that.
I think if I, if I live house,then there would be some kind of
option maybe for me to buy it,but because I am a investor,
landlord, I can't better to haveit just sit there and collect
trash.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
There's new logic, that's I would buy it and do
something with it I've run upagainst this for so many years.
Like it's just sickening.
It really is.
They have a program called Turnthe Key now, but you have to
have you can't, you have to havea lot of experience.
There's an RFP that goes out.
(26:21):
It's a whole big thing.
They are, though, buildingthese houses where buyers can
buy them for like a brand newconstruction for $280,000.
There's all kinds of grantsavailable as well Philly First.
There's also grant from likeWistvis has one for 10,000.
You marry the two.
(26:42):
Very little money out of pocketfor them.
The kicker is they hold it for15 years, otherwise, when they
sell it, they cannot get theequity from it because there's a
soft second of $90,000 againstit.
You're really getting amortgage of $200,000, $190,000,
(27:02):
the mortgage, but there areincome in regards to that.
But that's also part of theland bank program and the
council people have to sign offon this land.
But you see them how much thereare.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Right, oh yeah, thousands, maybe tens of
thousands, no, no, Tens ofthousands, right, right.
So it's interesting becausewhat happens is a situation
created where there's thiscomplex web of programs and
opportunities and laws andregulations and all these things
(27:42):
that the average person or eventhe average investor there's no
way they're going to know allthese things right, and that you
offer these services andknowledge that can help somebody
navigate it as a real estate.
And I'm trying on my end to putyou know, get the knowledge out
(28:04):
there.
So one of the things that outthere, so one of the things that
you know.
I try in the Philadelphia group, as I gather information, I try
to put it out there, and Irealized like it needs to be put
into a more organized way.
Actually, like Philadelphia hasa lot of good websites, the
(28:25):
government to put outinformation.
When you get there you realizelike it's really hard to
understand.
So I'll give like a basicexample.
There's a lot of programs fortenants out there that can help
them with utilities, with rent,all kinds of things.
When I go and look at thesethings I'm like I don't know
(28:46):
what to do.
There's no, if I can't figureit out, probably the tenant
can't figure it out either, orit might not be just about
figuring it out, it's just verycomplicated.
You have to send in thisdocument, that document, and
it's like this or that.
That's correct, yeah, sothere's a lot of money out there
(29:07):
that goes totally unused.
I'm sure that there's like noneof these programs that get
funding end up being able to domost of the funding because of
that barrier to entry.
So one of the things that Iwant to do so I've established,
(29:28):
like this entity called RealLandlording and actually soon
we're going to launch a newwebsite.
It's already and we're justdebugging it now.
So we're talking about withindays or a week or so that we'll
launch and the idea is thatanywhere where a landlord is on
(30:01):
their journey whether theyhaven't even started buying
properties yet and needconsulting and help in analyzing
properties and all of that kindof thing um, how to you know
how to design it to for for forthe tenants?
Um, how to get the work donehiring contractors or hiring
maintenance people every step ofthe way that they can come to
the real landlording website andfind a solution that that
(30:25):
that's a reliable solution.
And, like I was, you know, Iknew before we actually started
the podcast that in my journey Ifound that I got severely taken
advantage of in my early years.
I lost quite a bit of money tosome corrupt I don't know what
to call them I have I have somethat I won't use here
(30:47):
contractors that took advantageof me and it was clear like they
knew as soon as they startedtalking to me.
This woman knows nothing andI'm taking advantage of that.
Okay, they know, they know asyou open your mouth, whether you
know or not, and there's,unfortunately, people who will
take advantage of that and that,because I'm through that, I
(31:09):
really sincerely feel like otherpeople should not go through
that and and that because I'mthrough that, I really sincerely
feel like other people shouldnot go through that, if I can
help them to avoid it.
And it's not that hard to avoidit once you have some knowledge
and connections and things likethat.
So I want you know, I want tohave landlords be better
(31:29):
landlords and be able to managethemselves through different
challenges and just the basicthat you need to do in order to
be a good landlord or investor.
But that has a win-win orwin-win-win, because it's better
for investors to increase theirbottom line, but that also
(31:54):
helps the tenant because if yourexpenses decrease and it's
easier for you to be a landlord,you can manage your rent not
just your rent better, but thenyou have money to invest in the
property to keep it maintained.
There's nothing worse than likehaving you know if you have
you're a tenant and you have alandlord who's struggling
financially and and there'sissues that you have in the
(32:16):
house.
It might not be that you knowthat they're a bad person, that
they don't get things taken careof.
It could be they don't have thefunds to do it.
Indeed, indeed.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
So that's exciting, have your website launching.
I guess you're creating acommunity, basically, yeah, a
community and a network thatpeople can rely on, that's
awesome.
Yeah, yeah, I think that'sawesome, that's pretty good and
that's going to launch in thenext couple of weeks, next week
or two.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
It should be within a week, but I'll be letting you
know.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Ah, very exciting.
Lots, lots of be the solutionsgoing on.
Exactly be the solution,exactly exactly.
We have so many other things,cheryl, that I would love to
talk to you about in the future.
In regards to, like you know,how people can do it, like how
can they get in the business,I'd like to schedule a time when
(33:11):
we can unpack that and do acase study.
For sure I would love to dothat.
That would be super cool, andthen you could put it on your
website too, yeah, you could dothat.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
I'll have to interview one of these days.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
I'm ready any day, Ready to bring it you got to
have I'm always ready Energy,enthusiasm, regardless of
whatever's around us.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
I'll ask you this question, cheryl what are you
and maybe you're going to tellme the website most excited
about for you, for your personalfuture?
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Well, for real personal.
So, like I said, I used to liveand when I moved here, I moved
here with my youngest child, whoat the time was a junior in
high school.
But my other two kids stillremained overseas and just a few
months ago one of them andmoved over with her husband.
(34:07):
So she's here now.
So I have two out of three hereclose by and in the summer, my
third child along with mygrandson and his wife to move
here.
So that's for me the ultimate.
There's nothing more importantthan family and everything I
(34:28):
mean.
I know it sounds cliche, buteverything I do is about family.
It's having the resources tohelp family and spend time with
family and it's about making alifestyle the podcast that
through real estate andinvesting, you can have more
(34:51):
control over your life and shapethe kind of lifestyle that you
want to have.
So that's what I'm excitedabout having my kids nearby.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Nothing better than having family.
Really I mean family'severything.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Everything.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Yeah, so last question for you, guilty
pleasure.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Ooh, Wow, you didn't prepare me for this.
Guilty pleasure, yeah, I guess.
In general it goes back to thislike having control of my time.
So I sense from that you'rekind of this too, because you
scheduled this podcast for 730in the morning.
(35:31):
So you like to make use of yourtime and fill your days, and I
definitely am like that as well.
But because I do have controlof my time, that I can set days
where it's like this is mine,set days where it's like this is
mine If I want to sleep in, ifI want to spend a stupid amount
(35:55):
of time I don't know at the gymhiking or watching TV on the
sofa, whatever it is, and Idon't have to feel guilty about
it.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
So doing what you want when you want, because you
create the life that you want tohave.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Yeah, exactly, but not taking that doesn't mean
every day just doing want whenyou want, because you create the
life that you want to haveexactly.
But not like, not taking like.
That doesn't mean every dayjust doing whatever well, of
course, then you wouldn't haveany business right, it's like
and it wouldn't be satisfying,because when you do it too much
it's just like I don't know.
It doesn't feel good.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
I said to have the office.
I said like if I'm sick it'shorrible because I have to be at
the house.
You can't like infect peopleand it is the worst.
Like I could stay at the housefor like three hours, uh-huh,
maybe five, but after that it'slike stir crazy.
Uh, if I'm not sleeping it'sbad right yeah, well, we're so.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
We're social.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Social beings need to be around people we are and if
it was like, oh, if I wasn'tsick, like it'd be fine, right,
like you'd have something to do,but now I'm not a good sick
person like saying, and I'd liketo be out and about, but this
is a great podcast.
I appreciate you, cheryl, andlooking forward to having you on
(37:07):
again and looking forward togetting to know you.
Yeah, me too.
I really hopefully.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
I really appreciate this.
A new friend.
Yeah, we're going to have tohave a coffee, absolutely A good
Italian coffee, that's right.
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