Lexapro Landings

I've been racking my brain for a phrase to compete with my favorite "Wellbutrin Wins," to similarly describe my experience with the anti-depressant Lexapro.

Wellbutrin, an anti-depressant medication I started a year and a half ago, helped quiet some of the constant panic and terror I felt about every day living. It also helped tune out my sense of everyone else's feelings and needs, so I could better center around my own.

Six months later, I worked with my psychiatrist to add Lexapro to the mix. It helped me land in my body, with my thoughts and emotions still vibrant and swirling around me, but no longer sweeping me away.  

In this podcast, I talk about situational depression ( 3 months of shoulder pain!), and seasonal depression (bitterly cold and early dark days of winter) crashing together to leave me thinking... "Why Monday?"

I don't know that medication will benefit everyone who needs it and tries it. 

But I do know that it still feels incredibly shameful and scary to talk about needing mental health support. And this keeps people who could benefit greatly from it from even considering it.

Depression and anxiety are already such incredibly lonely experiences. And help - whether medication, therapy, exercise, or a combination thereof - can take time to kick in. Staying committed to getting better, when everything already feels so hard, is a true act of courage.

Come check out the Hot Mess series on TikTok, and watch as I lose my mind - and find it again - writing, producing, and acting in a show!

#CreatingIsHealing🦋

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
First podcast back from shoulder surgery. If
you're looking on YouTube,there's this beautiful sling.
It's pretty, pretty massivesling. Uh , I've got one more
week to go before this slingcomes off, which is super,
super exciting. Um, I've beenhealing incredibly, incredibly
well, which is a total blessingand also a sign of how hard I

(00:24):
have been working every day touse a red light and use an
e-stim and put different kindsof lotions for bruising and for
inflammation. And there's likea whole thing happening. But ,
um, they did a great job. It'sdoing really, really well and
I'm really glad to be back.
Having said all that, the thingI really came back to talk

(00:47):
about is mental health anddepression and medication for
those things. I, I made apodcast episode on Wellbutrin,
which is an antidepressant thatI started a year and a half
ago, I think , uh, maybe lastJune in 2022. And it is by far

(01:10):
the most listened to top ratedepisode I've ever put out,
which is wild to me, but alsotells me that there is very
much a need to be talking aboutthese things. I'm so grateful.
Okay, this is gonna soundwrong, I'm so grateful to Covid
. But one of the silver liningsthat came out of Covid was a

(01:30):
much greater understanding ofdepression, of a much more ,
um, willingness to talk aboutit and a more greater
willingness to seek help. Andif you've never struggled with
depression, God bless ,you have a beautiful brain,
keep at it. But for anyone whohas, and anyone who has loved
ones or friends who have, Ijust really want to be

(01:54):
furthering this conversation.
One of the reasons I did theWellbutrin episode is because
there was a coach that I wasfollowing who was also an
artist who always in her emailseemed to really have it
together and was on top ofstuff and so positive and so
manifesting and all thatlanguage. And then wrote this
email about how she'd gonethrough a really long

(02:14):
depression and finally askedfor help and got on medication.
And it really saved her life. Iwas blown away because I had no
idea. And it was really helpfulto me because I was also
struggling and I didn't feellike medication was a right fit
for me. And it was a few monthslater where I realized I really

(02:38):
can't do this on my own. And Ireached out to a psychiatrist.
I imagine the way that Ipresent to people, which is
incredibly peppy, incrediblyenergized, incredibly curious
about the world. I think peoplewould find it easy to imagine
that I am happy all the time.

(03:00):
I'm not , um, I mean no one is,but I struggle a lot with
depression and anxiety and havefor my entire life. But
definitely way, way, way moreaware of it. When I started
college , um, is when it gotway harder and became really
clinical and needing a lot ofhelp. And I tend to perk up

(03:21):
when I talk to people. I tendto really , um, be excited to
see other humans because ittakes me out of my overwhelming
brain space, my mindscape whereeverything is really tough and
scary. And so I do come acrossas very energetic. And um, but
when I'm done speaking with afriend or done taping a podcast

(03:42):
and I turn everything off, I'mback to just huddling in my bed
, uh, depending on, you know,when things are bad. So I, I
also, I lost a really dearfriend and colleague , um,
goodness, I think about 10years ago to suicide. And it

(04:05):
was the most unexpected thingever. She was beloved by
everybody. She was known for ,um, sorry I haven't talked
about this in a while. Um, shewas known for volunteering. She
was considered shy and quiet,but wise and outgoing and

(04:27):
always willing to help. And wehad all of these silly jokes
going at work. We adopted aplant together 'cause I was
part-time and we would tradeoff watering it. And then we
heard that she had died bysuicide and it's still really
hard to talk about. And so,again, I, for those who maybe

(04:51):
don't , um, read as depressedand maybe are very good, I'm
also very high functioning,depressive. I find that going
to work and doing math andgetting busy with someone
else's project gives me a senseof accomplishment and gives my
brain a place to focus otherthan the thoughts that might be
swirling inside of me. So oneof the ways that I got myself

(05:12):
out of a really bad depressionin my twenties and thirties was
by showing up to work. It waslike a reason to shower and a
reason to get on a subway. Andby the time my legs started
moving, my brain started movingand there was something very
clean and nice about math.
There's always, I do financeand there's always like a
point. It always adds up tosomething. Uh, so you can close

(05:34):
that loop. I think one of thehard things about depression
and anxiety is a lot of openloops, a lot of unanswerable
questions, a lot of worryingabout the future, which no one
can know and your brain canjust spin and spin and spin. So
I'm a very high functioning,depressed, I show up energetic.
I crack a lot of jokes, mostly'cause I wanna cry on the

(05:54):
inside and I find that easier.
Um, I've also noticed that whenI go out into the world to pick
coffee or you know, chat up thegrocery store clerk , um, if
I'm in a really sunken mood,they tend to reflect that back
and it makes my mood worse. Itmakes me feel more, I'm
shrinking as I'm talking aboutit, more sad and lonely and

(06:16):
disconnected. And so one of thereasons that I am peppy when I
talk to people, I don't lovethat word, but it's probably
accurate. I feel like a goldenretriever sometimes I'm like
excited by people is becausewhen I'm excited and I find a
way to crack a joke that makesus both laugh, I create
connection and then I feel thatglow back on me and that helps

(06:37):
me in my day. So I work reallyhard to connect with people to
find a way to , um, yeah, it'susually tell a small joke or
something or notice somethingabout someone's hair or nails
that I can comment on or youknow, the song that's playing
in the grocery store. Just someway to kind of break through
the monotony of also grocerystore clerks. Like it just

(07:00):
looks kind of , uh, deadeningin terms of boredom. Um, and
they just get used to peoplegoing through the line and
it's, you know, kind of, it'slike I think about the DMV like
breaking through the monotonyof bureaucracy. So way off on a
tangent, but talking about sortof what it is to present to
someone who seems really happy.

(07:22):
And I do have a lot of joy inmy life, but I'm not a
fundamentally content happyperson. I am getting there, but
mostly because of medication.
And I've gotta caveat this bysaying I obsessed with
self-development. I was onantidepressants in my twenties.
They didn't really work andthey also messed up my stomach.

(07:44):
And I've had 20 years ofstomach issues ever since then.
We actually don't know if itwas the antidepressants. I also
was on anti-inflammatories formy first two shoulder surgeries
and those are known to bereally hard on the stomach. So
I could also have apre-existing stomach issue. No
one's been able to figure outwhat the heck's up with my
stomach. We're making progressby like trial and error, but we

(08:04):
don't really know. So, but whatI did know is that my stomach
was too sensitive to takemedication for most of my
twenties and thirties, so itwasn't really an option because
I was in pain every day for mystomach burning and I couldn't
add any more to that. And yeah,that's like a whew , bad
paradox 'cause the pain wasdefinitely not helping the
depression. So even though Iwasn't against them, I just

(08:28):
opted out for myself because Ireally , uh, didn't think my
body could tolerate them. Andwhat I did do was sign up for
life coaching, take a gajillionworkshops, read books,
investigate, you know, I wasgonna therapy three times a
week when things are reallybad. Um, I have pretty much
done everything, a ton of woostuff that I've probably

(08:51):
already forgotten because I'vedone so much of it. And when
someone asks me I'm like, ohyeah, I

Speaker 2 (08:55):
Did that thing. Uh, I'm deeply fascinated by the
human brain. I'm deeplyfascinated by why we work
against ourselves. This iskinda the reason I started the
podcast. You know, what is itto have a creative drive inside
of you and then to not put outthe song or the novel or the
whatever it is into the worldthat you want. I'm really,
really curious about that. AndI'm also just been trying to

(09:15):
solve my own anxiety anddepression and I've done a ton
of work. I journal every day . I know all the tricks
is what I wanna say. But thetricks don't make you happy if
your brain is like mine. So ,uh, if you haven't seen the
Wellbutrin wins, oh, so this ismy other thing. I had this

(09:37):
phrase called the Wellbutrinwins. Um, because I found that
just when I started taking theWellbutrin, my ability to take
risks exponentially , uh,expounded, I the fact that I
decided to leave Brooklyn andbecome a digital nomad for a
year, my friend and I werelike, that's the Wellbutrin

(09:59):
win. There's no way I would'veconsidered that a year before
because I was so anxious aboutnot having roots and not being
grounded and so terrified of ,um, yeah, of like where I was
planted. And so I was very kindof huddled in my apartment,
which I loved and I lovedBrooklyn. But when it was time
to leave, it was very muchaided by Wellbutrin. And the

(10:22):
month I remember of August whenI told my landlord I wasn't
renewing my lease and got realand I was looking for a
secondhand car and I waspacking stuff up and giving
away all my furniture. Therewere days when I could not get
outta bed. I was so terrifiedby my own decisions and I got a
lot of coaching on that. And Ialso started to find that
Wellbutrin allowed me to talkto the panic before I had been

(10:46):
panicking about stuff. And Iknew it wasn't rational or
logical. Um, you know, I'vejust kind of assumed the world
is gonna end in biblical times,earth and fire , uh, water and
fire, flooding and fire are thewords I'm looking for. And I've
always felt that way. I'vealways just felt like that's
for sure what's gonna happen.
And it's not, it's not aprecise, you know, this event

(11:09):
is gonna happen. It's more justlike everything feels like it's
going towards a bad end. And Icould never argue with that. It
was like, I know that's maybenot true, but it feels so true
in my system. I don't know howto argue with that. And what I
found with the Wellbutrin isthat when I was having serious
panics about leaving Brooklynand organizing everything, I

(11:33):
was able to talk to my panicand say, whew , yeah , that
makes a lot of sense right now.
And I know that I have alwaysfigured out whatever I have set
my mind to. And I have movedand I have gotten lost in
Morocco . And I have ,um, you know, I have just
traveled a lot. I've done a lotof stuff and I've always solved

(11:53):
the problems in front of me. SoI totally get panic as much as
you want. And also I'm gonna behere and I'm gonna keep
figuring out. And that abilityto talk to the parts of me that
felt overwhelmed was a gamechanger because what I realized
was before I was saying allthose things to myself, 'cause

(12:13):
I knew they were the quoteunquote right answer, but they
didn't , um, they didn't stick,they didn't sink in the
complete and utter belief in mybones that everything was gonna
be terrible and people werescary and the world was
dangerous. It didn't reallymatter how much evidence I gave
it that was different to that,it didn't shake. So I lived in

(12:35):
a scary world in my brain andthe Wellbutrin was an
incredible gift. And I startedat 150 milligrams Megs, we say
for short. I'm hoping that'smilligrams. Um, and after, and
I felt, I will also say I wason steroids at the time trying
to solve my stomach issues. Andthe steroids completely knocked

(12:57):
me exhausted. So I was alreadystruggling with covid and
depression. I was caretaking anelder relative who I loved
dearly and wasn't doing well.
And then I was on steroids andjust, I, I I just gave up. I
had no energy to care aboutanything anymore. And that's
when I knew I was in trouble.
It's when I stopped caringabout stuff that I knew was in
trouble. So , um, we startedWellbutrin and I felt in , I

(13:21):
was lucky. Um, most , uh,antidepressants and mental
health medications take four tosix weeks to find out , um, how
they work for you. Within a fewdays I felt better. And I
remember I got tickets to theballet and walked 30 minutes to
bam, which is where um, we havea lot of incredible arts in
Brooklyn and just felt likebeing in the world again. And I

(13:42):
was like, oh , Wellbutrin, . Um, and then a month
later when I kind of settled, Irealized , uh, what had been
such a gift before was now waslike I just started seeing how
the rest of the world was wayless panicked and how much work
I still had to do to manage myanxiety every single day, my
panic and my depression. And sowe solely went up , um, to 300

(14:04):
milligrams and then we did 5,450 milligrams , um, which is
the max you can really take inWellbutrin. And uh, every step
of the way was just this extralittle protection and softness
and ability to , um, trustmyself ability to go out into
the world. And I remember whenI first started Wellbutrin, I

(14:27):
remember very clearly feelinglike this bubble came around me
and all of a sudden I couldunderstand that other people's
emotions and words and problemsand desires for me or desires
for themselves were theirs. AndI was inside my bubble and I
could hear myself a little bit,a little bit more loudly than I

(14:47):
could hear them in my entirelife. I've been told I'm too
sensitive and I'm too enmeshedand I'm whatever. And I'm like,
but I don't know how to changethat because I feel everyone's
stuff and I hear everyone'sstuff all the time. And so I
understand it's not healthy andI want to be different, but
also I don't know how. And Iliterally was like, oh, this is
what normal people experience.

(15:08):
Like your sense of self, yourdesires, your dreams for
yourself, your goals are louderthan other people's and you
just get to be in this bubble.
Not to say that I don't feeleveryone's else's stuff or can
connect or have empathy, butjust I get to hear myself. And
I was like, wow, this isincredible. So that was my

(15:28):
experience with Wellbutrin. Andum, fast forward I left
Brooklyn and I got on the roadand uh, about two months into
it kind of fell off a cliffagain. Part of it had to do
with family stuff that came up.
Um, and we tried a differentmedication and it did not work.

(15:50):
It completely knocked me on myand all I was doing was
sleeping all day. And I waslike, this is not a functional
medication. I need somethingdifferent. And so , uh, I asked
my health coach and she hadsaid that Lexapro and
Wellbutrin work really, reallywell together. And so I asked,
can I have some Lexapro? And mypsychiatrist was like, yeah. So
I started Lexapro about a yearago last actually I think last

(16:13):
October, really a year ago. Andum, and the experience I
remember of Lexapro because Iwas, it might have been
November when I started it'cause I remember it was really
dark and really cold and I wasin an apartment on my own in a
town I'd never been in again,digital nomad. So I was
traveling a lot and I wasn'tmeeting friends all the time or

(16:34):
making new friends depending onwhere I was. And especially
when I was already depressedand the sun was going down at
four o'clock and there was snoweverywhere. I wasn't going out
to be social. So it was a verylonely time to go through
winter. I now learned wintersare not the best time to be
digital nomads in new cities.
And, and I remember feelinglike I landed in my body and

(16:57):
feeling like all of theemotions that I felt were
swirling around me, but they nolonger were the tsunami that
was sweeping me away. I wassuddenly grounded in my body.
And I remember a few weekslater, I don't know if we'd
increased it a little bit bythen, but a few weeks later
waking up and thinking Ifundamentally feel okay in my
body. And I think I'm someonewho's been dissociated from her

(17:20):
body for a long time andworking on that for a long time
and doing a lot of somatictherapy, which I've really been
a game changer for me andreally helped me heal. But I'm
also someone whose brain isvery fast, whose brain is very
strong and loud and I can hangout in my brain for forever.
And I think it's like a chickenand egg where I think the

(17:41):
anxiety makes you wanna hangout in your brain 'cause it
feels safe, but then your brainjust spins more stories of
anxiety. And so a lot of thepractices for calming anxiety
are to come back into yourbody. And people are always
telling me to do that. And Iwas like, I don't know what
that means. I'm like, I'mtrying but I don't know what it
means. And I literally woke upand thought, wow, like my body
is here. It is solid, it iscurrently unbroken. I'm okay

(18:04):
fundamentally like whateverhappens today, this is okay.
And I was like, I've never feltthat way . I've never felt like
I woke up. I mean I would wakeup in a panic like first hour
or two in the morning was justtrying to function through my
panic so I could actually startmy day. And I woke up and I
realized what it is to I'mnecessarily live in your body.
I think an embodiment thing asa whole separate, but like to

(18:27):
really just feel solid in theworld in a way that, yeah, my
emotions were not bigger thanme. I will say for some people,
and I know this is a lot of thefear around taking medication,
there's this fear that it'sgonna dull your emotions or
it's going to make youlethargic in general in life.
It can. Um, there's a lot ofdifferent classes of , um,

(18:49):
antidepressants andanti-anxiety medication. And by
classes we mean different waysthat they work on the brain in
order to help. There's a lot ofthem we don't even understand
entirely. Most of themhonestly, we don't really
understand entirely how theyhelp, but they do. In fact, I
think when my psychiatrist gavethem to me and I was like, I
feel so much better. He islike, that doesn't make sense.
It's supposed to be foranxiety. And I was like, yeah,
I can't, but it's working. Um,so there is a lot of trial and

(19:12):
error involved in finding themedication and I definitely am
someone who did not want tofeel less , um, just wanted to
feel manageable. And there aresome medications depending on
your reaction to them whereyour sense of, you know, people
sometimes get a foggy head. Ihad a friend who tried
Wellbutrin and ended up feelinglike a zombie or like, okay,

(19:33):
that's not a good thing foryou. But I tried another
medication in college and Iremember like vivid moments
sitting at a computer , uh, inmy Friday day job and we were
on like the 12th floor and justthinking about jumping out the
window. And I was like, this isnot me. I am , I'm not
suicidal, this is somethingelse. And I was really lucky

(19:53):
that I heard that and I waslike, we're stopping this
medication. 'cause weirdly, inparadoxically some medications
make people more suicidal.
Can't explain the brain guys.
Um, so it is really importantto be tracking your own
reaction to stuff and to beseeing are there side effects?
Do you feel better? Do you feelworse? I definitely get dizzy
when I first try medication .

(20:14):
So I was dizzy a little bit thefirst week or two and then it
kind of settled. Um, that's whythey say to try something for
four to six weeks. They reallywanna see how your body does
metabolizing that medication.
Um, so there is no one sizefits all , which I know is the
most devastating news whenyou're already in a really bad
place and you're reallydesperate for help. And then

(20:35):
you're being told, well, wegotta try one thing and see how
it does. And then if it doesn'twork, we've gotta try something
else. It can be really, reallyhard to hold on for that. And
so the one of the reasons Iwanted to come here and talk
about Wellbutrin wins andLexapro Landing as I'm now
calling it, is , um, to givehope to those who are maybe

(20:55):
considering trying medicationbut have been afraid who have
tried something and it didn'twork for them. Um, I'm
definitely not saying everyoneneeds to be on medication, I
don't think, I don't think anyone thing solves everything. I
don't think therapy is asolution to all things or all
people at all times. I have alot of different modalities.
I'm in a couple differentprograms. Every time I learn

(21:16):
something, I apply it. So Ihave a huge toolbox of things
and I've worked a lot withtherapists and life coaches and
so I have, I I sometimes I'mlike, you know, maybe it's a
priest or a rabbi or an imamthat you need to go to. I don't
know who it is who can helpyou. I don't know if it's
talking to somebody who's trustthat you trust. Um, oftentimes

(21:37):
it can be a combination.
There's also some research thattaking a 20 minute walk can be
just as effective asantidepressants. So those are
other things that I do. I havea whole checklist of taking a
walk and , um, being social andmaking sure I sit in the sun.
Like all of those things arealso really, really important.
So again, I'm not, I'm not adoctor and I'm not advocating

(21:58):
that everyone needs to be onmedication. But what I am
saying, if something feelsreally, really wrong for you
and your brain, I would offer ,um, to reach out to a
psychiatrist. And I think evenyou can talk to often , uh,
PCPs, a general practitioner,if you've got like a , just a
regular family doctor or aninternist, there's a lot of
them. Um, even psychiatricnurses I'm finding can,

(22:21):
especially like Wellbutrin andLexapro tend to be very, I
wanna say class A, but I couldbe wrong, whatever, whatever
class of drugs the governmentis not worried about 'cause
they're not addictive. Sothere's like harder drugs that
the government really have togo through a psychiatrist and
you gotta make sure that you'retracked because they're really
addictive or they can be madeinto meth. I don't know guys, I

(22:42):
don't know enough about whatpeople do with drugs, but
Lexapro and Wellbutrin are someof the easier ones, which, and
they tend to work on a lot ofpeople and they tend to be easy
on the body, which is also anincredible gift. So find out
what your resources are, ifthis is something that you're
struggling with. Um, and I saythis because about three weeks

(23:04):
ago I had to go back to mypsychiatrist and say, I'm not
okay anymore. I think I needmore something. And so there's,
there's different kinds ofdepression. There's , um,
situational depression, whichoften means that something
happened to you , uh, maybe youmoved or you changed jobs or

(23:24):
you got divorced or you gotinjured. And it, it just kind
of shocks the system and it canbe really hard to figure out
how to get your grounding.
Again. I had shoulder surgery ,uh, five weeks ago, but for the
two months before that I waspretty much in daily pain and
we did not know what was wrong.
It took 'em like two months toget an MRI approved and get an

(23:46):
MRI and figure out what washappening and then decide on
surgery. So by the time I hadsurgery and then spent another
four weeks in pain, it had goneon for three months and I just
ran out of giddy up . I haddone, again, a checklist of
things to take care of myshoulder and ways to rehab my
right shoulder so it didn'tbreak. And ways to like

(24:07):
checklist upon checklist, I wasgiving myself gold stars for
taking walks for drinkingwater, for putting
anti-inflammatories on. Like ,uh, there's this topical
anti-inflammatory that I usefor my shoulder so I can save
my stomach , uh, the pain of ,uh, medication. And I just
reached a point where I, itjust, it's like, it's like my

(24:28):
brain broke. And one of thebest ways that I know that I'm
in trouble is when I startthinking why Monday? Like
literally why is, why is anyonehaving breakfast? Why is anyone
making plans? Why do you go towork? What ? Like nothing makes
sense and there's no reason todo anything and I can't
remember why I cared before andthat's when I think I don't

(24:51):
know how to get through this.
And so that is very muchsituational depression. Mine
was coming up against the factthat also I get seasonal
depression when it gets dark.
And I don't know where you guyslive in the northeast. The sun
starts going down at fiveo'clock and by winter is down
at four o'clock and it's bloodyfreezing out. So you , no one

(25:12):
wants to go outside. It's hardto walk and move your body
'cause it's so cold and it'sdark and the dark can affect a
lot of people. I don't know ifit's everyone, I'm always
amazed that some people aren'taffected, but the dark affects
a lot of people and, and itmakes me more depressed. I have
a , I have a light box that Iturn on in the morning and the
evening. Again, I have so manytools, but I knew I had

(25:35):
another, you know, I had sixweeks total in the sling and
then six weeks of physicaltherapy where I think we just
only stretch my arm and don'tdo much else. And then in
January my arm should be fullyhealed and my shoulder and then
we start strengthening. So Iwas gonna have to go through
the entire winter without yoga,without salsa dancing, without
a lot of movement. And I justknew that was gonna be really

(25:57):
rough when I was alreadyfeeling so rough. And that's
when I reached out to mypsychiatrist and said, I'm not
okay. Like this is, this is notenough. And I think it's, you
know, I don't necessarily wannabe on it for the rest of my
life. Maybe this is a , weincrease Lexapro, which what we
decided to do, we increase itthrough March. You know, we get
me through winter and we get methrough rehab of my shoulder to

(26:18):
a place where I, the sun isback and I can go to yoga. You
know, yoga for me is communityyoga for me is moving my body
in community, which are my twoof my favorite things. Salsa,
dancing, same thing. It's beingin community and being able to
move my body. And those arealso very easy ways to be
social when you're traveling alot and you don't have a set

(26:39):
group of friends in the placewhere you are. I zoom with a
lot of friends, I've maintaineda lot of friendships by zoom
and it's a blessing, but it'snot the same as having your
body in a space with otherbodies. And so yoga and salsa
to me are two ways in which Ican show up. They can be total
strangers, we don't even haveto get to know each other. But
on a animal of the body level,just being around other human

(26:59):
bodies is very grounding. It'svery good for the immune
system. It just like resets alot of my depression. It's
like, oh, they're humans, we'rehuman. We can do this
the world is still spinning.
I'm okay. So I, yeah, I , Iwent up on Lexapro about a week
and a half ago , um, and Iimmediately started feeling a

(27:22):
little bit better. And then Ihad a stomach flare up , so I
was sick again and my stomachwas burning for three days and
I just realized how hard it isto be in constant pain. And
weirdly I'd forgotten, which Iguess is a blessing. And um,
how also it's so hard on themental health to be in pain all
the time. It's just, it feelsinescapable and it's one of

(27:47):
those things that , um, wearsyou down. It's, it's hard to
explain if you haven't been init because most injuries for
most people are short term .
You know, someone breaks theirarm , someone twists an ankle,
it's bad for a few weeks, itgets slowly better and then it
gets strong again. And then yougo back to your life. Um,

(28:07):
imagine those few weeks being afew years, it's, it's, I
actually should think aboutwhat this would be like because
I, it's like having, it's likestepping on a push pin inside
your shoe every time you stepand just every time it just
never goes away and there'snothing you can do. So that
sense of hopelessness, there'snothing you can do, it's just

(28:27):
gonna always be there. Youcan't stop walking. You need to
walk or you could, but then youwouldn't have a life at all.
Um, no one knows what's causingit. No one seems to be able to
have a solution for you. Sothey're just telling you maybe
you should meditate or maybeit's all in your head 'cause
they can't see the pushpin. Soyou just have a pushpin causing
pain all the time. And thereare times when you're like,

(28:52):
okay, I'm gonna do this. Youmeditate. And there are times
when you're just, I am in somuch pain and I just don't know
how to make it stop and I can'tmake it stop and I don't wanna
be here now in terms of I justdon't wanna be in this physical
pain and I don't know whereelse to be. And they're also
discovering that a lot of yourhappy chemicals either get made
in the stomach or your stomachcommunicates to the brain to

(29:14):
make them. So when you've got astomach disorder, you're also
missing out on that. And I waslike, that makes sense. So I do
talk a lot about having achronic illness. So if that is
something that you strugglewith, I am so sorry, it can be
really, really rough. Um, it's,I definitely think people who
are in a chronic illnesssituation , um, my totally un

(29:37):
doctor opinion is look intomedications , uh, mental health
medications. If you haven't, Ithink it's incredibly hard to
go through a chronic illnesswhere there are no answers and
it is a very slow recovery orpossibly a not recovery. And
it's completely interrupting somany life things like being
social, like going outside,like sitting in the sun. Um, it
takes away so many ways inwhich we heal ourselves that it

(30:00):
can just really darken thebrain and the mood. Some people
are more susceptible todepression than others. I
definitely am. I have a friendwho's gone through a ton of and
she's just like, kind ofbasically fine. Like she's
gotta work through her and wetalk about that, but her brain
doesn't default to the world isending. It's gonna be bad,
which is what my brain used todefault to. And the other thing

(30:23):
about depression, anotherreason why I think medication
can be really important is thatdepression has been shown to be
sort of like a groove that youput into, I'm gonna date myself
a vinyl disc . Um, or let's sayyou're ice skating. I don't, I
hope you guys are, I'm like aCanadian who's old .
I'm like, you might not knowice skating and you might know

(30:43):
vinyl discs , vinyl records,but essentially like a groove
that repeats itself, right? Youput a line in the sand and it
keeps going and going andgoing. And the more you stay in
depression, the longer thedeeper the groove gets, the
more you're, you're pushingthat stick into the sand and
the more you are making thatgroove deep. And so it gets
harder to come out of adepression the longer you stay
in it. And what they've alsofound is that the longer you

(31:06):
stay in it, the easier it is tofall into another one later on.
So if anyone has a recurring ,um, depression, it can be just
so much easier to fall into it.
So it's, it's one reason whypsychiatrists and mental health
specialists advocate for reallytreating it soon. And if
medication is needed, itdoesn't necessarily mean you're

(31:27):
gonna need medication for therest of your life. It might be
for six months for a year justto get you out of that, just to
bump you out of that deepgroove in the sand so that
you're back to normal and thenyour brain will kick in and
remember how to do normalagain. And that can often be
the experience. So Wellbutrinwins and Lexapro landings, I've

(31:48):
been incredibly blessed thatthese medications worked for
me, worked pretty much rightaway, worked in a way that I
could recognize that I haveaccess to them, that I have
health insurance that makes 'emvery affordable and a
psychiatrist that I can callwhen things are bad. Um, but
these are still things that Ithink are hard to talk about. I

(32:12):
think this feels veryvulnerable. You know, if I had
diabetes and I was talkingabout my insulin, I think I
would feel very different thansaying, this is how my brain
actually looks. It's, it's areally hard thing to say. This
is the inside of my thoughtsand it's not pretty. It's in
fact incredibly dark. And Iknow, 'cause I've had friends
tell me that it can be hardbecause all you wanna do is

(32:34):
argue and say, but you know,you're not a bad person. You
know, the world isn't gonnaend. I mean it is , but like,
you know, , you'regonna be okay until whatever,
you know, it's not gonna end inyour lifetime. Um, and arguing
doesn't help. It doesn'tmatter. It doesn't, it's not,
it's uh , depression is notlogical. Anxiety is not
logical. It does not respond tological arguments. It is not

(32:56):
super helpful. In fact, it canbe quite detrimental to argue
with someone who is strugglingin this way because their brain
believes those things sowholeheartedly that then to
have someone argue thatactually they're fine and
everything is fine, can feelreally, really dismissive and
makes someone feel even worse.

(33:17):
And then they're gonna feellike they've gotta pretend that
everything is okay so that youdon't have to worry about them.
So there are a lot of ways inwhich talking about mental
health, and if you're notsomeone who struggles or have
someone who struggles, it canbe hard to hear that and to
know, well, what level are youat and how bad is it? And how
dangerous is it? And are taking, are you taking care of
yourself? You know? So I dothink those are questions you

(33:38):
can ask. There was research ,um, from the suicide, I don't
know who, if it was theAssociation of Suicidology or
someone else that showed thatone of the best ways to
actually prevent someone fromtaking their own life , uh, was
to ask them if they had aconcrete plan, which sounds
paradoxical, but they said thateither someone is like thinking

(34:03):
about it. There's a thingcalled suicidal ideation,
meaning you're thinking aboutdying, but it's more as a
relief from the pain thatyou're in. And it's not
something concrete where you'vemade a plan for a certain date
with a certain tool, but thosewho have made that plan or have
been considering that plan, youknow, maybe what pills they
would get or access to ahandgun they have or something

(34:23):
else and are thinking aboutthis certain date being asked
and being heard about thatplan. And then being able to
talk about it with someonewho's not freaking out, who's
like, okay, okay, maybe it'stime. You know? And then
recommending that that persongets help , um, can, is like
one of the best ways tointerrupt someone's , uh,
desire and pattern to taketheir own life. And so again,

(34:46):
the paradox of being able totalk about this, especially
because these things areconsidered so shameful and feel
so vulnerable and shameful,that being able to listen to
someone in a tough placewithout judgment really listen
and just listen sometimes orlisten and make sure that
they've got support that theyneed, is the game changer. And
it is the hardest thing to do.

(35:06):
I myself come from a long lineof fixers. I am a fixer. I
often jump in with advicebefore anyone is asked. It is
something I'm trying to change.
But the ability to hear wheresomeone is at without
correcting them or trying tocheer them up or any of that
stuff is , um, it's a way of awalking the path alongside

(35:26):
another human. And strangely,one of the best, most powerful
gifts you can give. Okay. Ithink this episode has been
long enough. I really hopewherever you find yourselves
today that you are, well takecare.