August 24, 2023 • 27 mins
As artists, we have brilliant imaginations that we put to compelling use.
Those imaginations can create bright fantasies, and irresistible dramas.
When we use them on ourselves, we can daydream about awards and recognition, reaching a wider audience, creating greater impact. Or we can tell a story of defeat, of impossible odds, of a world against us and no way up.
Sometimes, often, we tell both.
And as entertaining as they are, they can be debilitating. If we craft a story that strips away our agency, that make us a victim, that carries no future.
So - what kind of stories are you telling about yourself?
Come check out the Hot Mess series on TikTok, and watch as I lose my mind - and find it again - writing, producing, and acting in a show!
#CreatingIsHealing🦋
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, my friends. I feel like this is another time
where I'm hitting recordagainst my better judgment
. I feel like that'sbeen that a lot lately. Um, if
you're listening to this andnot watching on YouTube , um, I
am wearing a sling today andI've been wearing a sling on
and off for a couple weeks now.
(00:21):
Um, I'm not gonna get too muchinto it. Uh, mostly I'm fine. I
have really bad inflammation inmy shoulder joint and , um, it
hurts to type and it hurts tosit up and it hurts to walk
right now , uh, which is like areally, really thing . And so
I've been thinking about youguys because as I've said
(00:44):
before, when you have a mysterychronic illness and you kind of
get knocked down a lot out ofthe blue , uh, it feels like
the first thing to go is thecreative projects. You know,
you, what is it? Maslow'sHierarchy of Needs. Survival is
first, and you gotta figure outhow to feed yourself. And
(01:05):
showering suddenly becomes ahard thing. Buying groceries
becomes a hard thing. So thoseget priority. Um, having a day
job that pays my bills andgives me health insurance,
gonna see doctors sittingaround in doctor's waiting
rooms and getting tests andfollowing up on tests , um,
, all of these thingssort of become a full-time job,
(01:29):
if not a part-time job, andalso just take up a lot of
energy when you're already kindof drained from energy. And so
the idea that there is time toread, audition notices, we're
still in the time of thestrike. Um, uh, the actor
strike if you've beenfollowing, and the writer
strike. And so productions havehalted on anything that is ,
(01:51):
uh, run by the major studiosand the streamers. But a lot of
independent films are gettingapprovals, waivers in order to
go into production. So thereare still acting projects
happening. There are stillpeople creating new things. Um,
in honor of the , uh, writer'sstrike, we're really not,
anyone who's not in thewriter's union, which I am not,
(02:13):
is also asked not to bepitching anything new. Um, but
the same idea to really standin solidarity and show the
dearth of original material ofmaterial, period when writers
and creatives are not paidproperly for their services. So
it's not a time necessarily tobe going out and, and meeting
people, but it is a time to bemaybe working on the script on
(02:35):
your own to be honing youracting skills or getting
together with friends and doingshort films or talking about
projects that you might wannamake someday . Um, there's
always creativity to be had andeven if it's not about being
able to sell something, youknow, and get it on a network
(02:56):
someday , there is in me, and Ido believe in most everyone a
drive to be creative. It's,it's this human need to express
yourself, to connect. Um, and Ifeel like with me, it sort of
pours out of me. And I think alot about my mom and I are
very, very different. And , uh,I always kind of shorthand call
(03:18):
her a jock and myself, the emoartist of the family. Um, and,
and her real mode of expressionas far as I understand it, and
I could be wrong, is to reallygo running, is to go hiking, is
to move her body , um, andexercise and push hard. I have
never been that person. I amunderstanding more and more as
(03:39):
my body , uh, has more and moredifficulties that it was
probably never gonna be a thingI could do. I was a dancer
growing up. Um, but likerunning sports, I could never
do it just hurt too mucheverywhere. Um, so I don't have
that same drive every day tomove my body, but I do have a
similar drive every day tocreate something, to be reading
(04:00):
or writing or acting, makingmusic. And when that goes out
the window, anyone who is anathlete, I have a friend
recently who had shouldersurgery. Um, and the non
ability to get out and gobiking or running or see
friends socially around anactivity, it's really, really
(04:20):
hard on the psyche, on theability to keep going. And ,
um, so, so this is been a toughtime is what I'm saying. And
I'm trying not to go too muchinto the details of it because
I don't really want thispodcast to be about chronic
illness, although apparentlyit's becoming that because this
(04:43):
mystery illness keeps coming upwith new ways to torture me.
Um, but a lot of what I'mtrying to figure out is how to
keep going, how to not lose thefaith of the things that are
still in me to create. And I'vetalked before about finding
ways in which to do like microgoals, you know, even just
using Instagram to post aninteresting picture and write a
(05:05):
short story or micro blog or agreat caption, right? Um, I've
gotten into flash memoirwriting, which I could do from
bed, which is great. Um, and,and those are specifically one
to two page essays. And I'mloving that expression and I'm
loving even the editingprocess, which is not something
(05:25):
I've never quite enjoyedbefore. And I am , cannot play
guitar right now because myshoulder is. Um, but hopefully
in a, I was gonna say a fewweeks, I don't know how long
it'll take for my shoulder toreally , um, here's the
problem. I got no broken bones,which is great. I've got dis
(05:45):
dislocation, which is amazing.
But broken bones weirdly areeasier to heal because once
they knit back together, youcan just kind of get back to
things. And inflammation inyour tendons is really tricky
because you need to exercise inorder to build strength. But
when you exercise, you alsoinflame everything. And then
you kickstart going back tosquare one, which means rest
(06:07):
and ice and doing nothing. AndI'm kind of in that cycle where
I was feeling better. I went tophysical therapy, we barely did
anything, and I've been inexcruciating pain for three
days ever since. So big suckagein that. And so, you know, I
might not be able to playguitar, but I can be singing
and I can be learning songs.
(06:28):
And , um, there are always waysto be creating stuff. And one
of the biggest ways to becreating , uh, as I was
thinking about you guys isthinking about the stories in
which the stories we tell aboutourselves. I've been getting,
as always, a lot of lifecoaching around being sick
(06:48):
because it's a really toughthing to navigate. And I keep
getting called out by mycoaches for saying, my body
keeps breaking. And they'relike, you know, that might not
be the most positive way totalk about your body. And I'm
like, that's fair. I'm surethere's a better way. Um, and
their point isn't asking me tobe hunky dory pie in the sky
(07:10):
and like, everything is fine.
Or huggy dory tomorrow, youknow, sunshine Annie , uh, the
sun will come out andeverything will be fine. It's
really not about that. But Iwas thinking about how one of
the absolute gifts and alsocurses of being an artist is
your vast imagination. And somy ability to write a story
(07:33):
that feels incredibly dramaticbecause I feel inside of an
incredible medical drama , um,is easy. And, and using
language is also a way that Imake sense of what I'm going
through. And so feeling like mybody just keeps breaking, feels
(07:54):
very aptt. And it might beuseful in some ways in order
for me to kind of , um,understand at a very base level
how I'm feeling. But I thinkwhat ends up happening, which
is why I keep getting calledout on it , um, for it not
being the most useful, is thatit becomes this sense of my
(08:17):
body keeps breaking and there'snothing I can do, right?
There's a hidden secondsentence to that. There's a
hidden follow up , or my bodykeeps breaking and doctors
don't know why, or my bodykeeps breaking and I don't know
when the next thing will be. Sowhy bother trying anything else
now? And so what you start tosee when you go looking for the
(08:41):
second sentence thataccompanies the first sentence
or the, not the hidden meaning,but the yeah, the like
unfinished thought, is thatsaying, my body is broken even
to myself, even
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Casually to friends, even casually to the barista
when I go with my sling and askfor coffee is reinforcing these
ideas that I don't have agency,I don't have clarity, and
potentially I don't have a tonof hope. And what's really
(09:15):
interesting is those aren'tactually entirely true in terms
of I work really hard everyday. I spent the weekend and
the past couple of daysresearching the glenohumeral
joint, I believe that's theright word , uh, which is a
shoulder joint and researchingall of the muscles of the
(09:37):
shoulder joint and researchingall of the muscles of the back
and trying to learn thembecause I want them to get
strong. And I'm realizing thatthe exercises my physical
therapist are giving me are tooadvanced for where I'm at in my
inflammation. And so I need tobe able to come up with a plan
and also discuss with him hisplans and understand what he
(09:58):
wants me to do, and then try tofigure out what my body can do.
And so I am teaching myself tobe an expert in my own body and
I'm teaching myself to advocatefor myself with medical experts
who know what they know andfigure out where does my body
meet their, their knowledge andwhere does my body have its own
(10:19):
wisdom and need a different wayof doing things. It's
incredibly hard work. It'sincredibly exhausting. I'm a
nerd, so I'm kind of lovinglearning Latin words of like
googling the etymology of, whatwas the other one? It was , uh,
latisimus Dorsey. And whichmeans like the broad back
(10:39):
shoulder from the Latin. I'mpretty sure I'm messing that
up, but something like that,right? So I'm nerding out
because I'm me and I've way toomuch time to kill in bed
because I can't really use myarm for much. And I've seen all
the Netflix, I think. Um, sothere are ways in which I am
rising to the occasion, andalso my shoulder is better
(11:01):
today than it was yesterday andbetter yesterday than it was
the day before. I'm able to situpright for the length of this,
which is progress. Um, I wentfor a short walk yesterday,
very short, which was progress.
So they're very small victoriesand it's easy to tell the story
of being inside of the storm ofthis and not quite seeing your
(11:24):
way out in part because it doesfeel so frustrating. A lot of
that is how come other peopleget to just gallivant about
with their functioning, youknow, limbs and joints. And I
literally did this getting amassage because , there
are limits to my body. I'mstill learning. And, and so the
(11:50):
story that I have that my bodyis broken, and I don't know if
it'll ever stop being broken,also goes along with the
stories of how I talk aboutbeing an artist and an actor,
which I don't share a lot, butbecause they're so negative.
But in my own head, it's oftenI don't have X, Y , z and
credits, therefore, I'm not aquote unquote real actor. I
(12:13):
haven't been paid thousands ofdollars to be to have a part on
a TV show or film, therefore,I'm not a quote unquote real
actor. You know, there's allthis messiness around the
commerce of acting and the artof acting and they don't always
meet. And , and this idea alsothat someone else gets to
(12:35):
decide when you're a realactor, someone else gets to
decide. This will be parallelback to being, you know, sick
and injured . The doctors arelike, yeah, your bones are
great. I'm like, cool, cool. Istill can't get outta bed
'cause I'm so much pain. And sothe, the experience I'm having
inside of my body is notmatching what I'm being told.
(12:58):
Um, doesn't mean my bonesaren't totally fine, it means
there's a bigger story to it.
But what happens when I go todoctors repeatedly, I'm gonna
go see an immunologist nextweek, and they run a bunch of
tests and they're like, yeah,there's nothing wrong. I'm
like, cool, cool. Still can'tget outta bed. That gets really
tricky, right? Because my livedexperience is not matching with
the reality of their data andtheir science. And I'm not at
(13:22):
all saying their science iswrong. I just think there's
more we don't know about thebody than what we do know. And
it can be really hard to havedoctors tell you that there's
nothing wrong simply becausetheir tests don't find
anything. Instead of saying, mytests haven't found something,
it means I don't know how tohelp you, but something is
going on anyway. What ends uphappening is this lack of
(13:45):
agency, right? Because in orderto figure out and fix my body,
I still gotta go to people whoknow more than I do. I still
gotta get tests . I still gottafigure out how do I download
their knowledge so I can learn,right? I don't know how to
rehab my shoulder. I don't knowhow to make my deltoid strong,
although I'm learning. Um, I, Idon't know all the things that
(14:07):
I need to know. I don't evenknow really what's wrong. Like
I didn't quite realize how muchI wasn't exercising my shoulder
and therefore letting themuscles get weak and therefore
causing more , um, stress on mytendon. Um, and sometimes you
don't know something until youhit a point of crisis and then
like, oh, I should have beendoing this all along, right?
And so now I'm trying to catchup and learn that so I can have
(14:29):
new habits. And where it ,where it parallels to this idea
of like how we are as artistsis I often think that in
Hollywood, in acting, there isa, there, there, right? There's
a place you can land wheresuddenly you have been approved
of. Suddenly you are thesuccessful person that you
wanna be. And the more I readabout different actors and
(14:52):
artists, the more I realizethat there is no they're there,
there is a lot ofconstellations of people making
things. There are studios whomaybe have bigger marketing
budgets so their films get seenor heard about by more people,
but they can also rubber stampyou on a Marvel film and then a
year later decide to drop youand then you don't belong to
(15:15):
that machine anymore. Andyou're sort of always left in a
position of fighting for Revel, uh, fighting for relevance
and trying to figure out how doyou create a stamp or how do
you make a stamp? Or how do youreach people with your art?
Same with I'm sure galleriesthis idea that, you know,
you've got paintings that youwanna sell. Who is the person
(15:36):
who's gonna help you getspotlighted so that others can
recognize you? And when are yourecognized enough? And then how
hard do you have to work tostay relevant? There's this sea
change that's constantlyhappening. The idea of artists
are always , um, certainly withactors, they say you're only as
good as your latest film. Um,and, and I'm sure with, you
(15:58):
know, musicians also, if youlook at , uh, album releases
and like the, the , I readinterviews, right? I will talk
about like the last two albumsdidn't really do much. And this
one is doing really great andsort of like the journey of it.
And you're constantly trying tofigure out this intersection
between refining the art andthe storytelling, the the craft
(16:18):
and also the, the marketing ofit. The way to reach people and
maybe get paid by it in orderto make your livelihood, right?
These are like very differentbuckets that intersect. And so
it can be , um, confusing tofigure out which one you could
be on a Marvel film and getpaid a ton of money, but then
(16:39):
feel artistically createcreatively kind of empty. And
so maybe you go and make anindie film for a couple years,
but then you need the studiobudget in order to, and the
studio marketing for people toknow you as a household name so
that then indie films will hireyou because indie films need a
household name in order fortheir film to get seen. So
you're constantly circling backand forth between the big
(16:59):
projects that have their ownmarketing machine and the
smaller ones that maybe feelmore creatively fulfilling. And
then trying to figure out howto pair bills in the middle of
all that. That's at least foractors and filmmakers and
directors. So there's this ideathat I have of how do I tell
the story of my place in thisconstellation? How do I tell
(17:22):
the story of, you know, Ihaven't made, I was gonna say I
haven't made a feature film.
And I was like, wait, I havemade a feature film. It's on
Amazon, right? I haven't madeenough films. I'm like, well,
I've made what four films? Whatis enough? Right? I haven't
been on a, and again, my brain,you can hear it, is looking for
(17:42):
the notness, the not enough,the haven't done this, the this
proves whatever. And so again,it's where my imagination is
creating the story of notenough, the story of , uh, not
worthy, the story of notbelonging. Those are just for
me, very , uh, well laidtracks. I tend to think those
(18:07):
things about a lot of differentthings , uh, which is true of
everybody. We all have ourthemes, we all have certain
beliefs we hold about ourselvesand they tend to repeat and
replay. So you'll probably feelthe same thing about work as
you will about your body, asyou will about maybe your
relationships as about money.
They tend to, it's just how ourbrains are, right? And because
(18:30):
our brains believe these sostrongly, they look for
evidence of these things allthe time. And so what I wanna
get back to is this idea thatwe as artists have these
incredible imaginations. Youknow, I can spin daydream, all
kinds of amazing stories andterrible stories. Dramas half
the fun, right? The angst andthe battle and the conflict and
(18:53):
the yearning. These were whatmake great novels and great
films and great music. And itcan be fun weirdly, right? We
go see, we go see films thatmake us jump and scream and cry
and we call that entertainment,right? Letting ourself feel
things really deeply is, isfun, which I use in air quotes
(19:16):
because of its ability torelease in you something that
you are maybe itching to feeland don't have other places to
release. And it also just feelsgood. It's like people get on
rollercoasters right? To go upand then feel that incredible
high adrenaline and then haveyour stomach drop as you go
down the other side. That isfun. Feeling that intensity is
(19:36):
fun. And so I can daydream anintense scenario about a fight
or meeting a meeting a dude andhaving some big love affair or
you know, we tend to like goback and relive our last fights
or whatever it is. And we cando the same thing with our
lives, with the facts of ourlives, with saying this, you
(19:56):
know, shoulder thing that ishappening. Um, it's easy
because it is painful and it isscary to have to cancel all of
my plans and stay in bed andnot know when I will be better
and not feel like a doctorknows how to tell me when to
get better. But I gotta keepfiguring this out with their
(20:17):
help. But really figuring thisout on my own , um, that's
terrifying. And so in the midstof all that panic and all that
time on my hands , um, it canbe easy, convenient shorthand
to spin a tale of brokenness,of drama, of. And so what I've
(20:37):
been thinking about is like,what if I flip that and I get
to keep the like drama, but Ibecome like the hero's journey
of like, oh man, and then thishappened and then got knocked
down and had to prove theirworthiness by doing X, Y, Z.
And then, you know, theirfaithful friend came and joined
them and helped pull them out,maybe cook them meals and
right. So trying. And as I ,even as I say that, I'm like,
(21:01):
oh , that's so lame, right? Iprefer stories and it's good to
know this about yourself. Ithink most of us do. I sort of
prefer the stories where it'stoo hard and I'm failing and
the world is against me and mybody's against me. That's one
of my patterns. So that's whyI'm trying to highlight it here
and for myself is to catchwhere it is that I tell
(21:24):
stories. Because if I think theworld is against me, my body's
against me, then the stories Itell of this journey will not
be how much I've managed tostay in the podcast and how
much I've managed to make ashort film that went to a film
festival and how much I'vemanaged to learn about my body
so I could care for it betterand better and better every
(21:44):
time something happens. Andlearn to not advocate for it
better and better. And learn toput the pieces together of why
all these joints keep , um,they're not breaking but they
keep , um, inflaming, right?
There's something happeningthat don't even have language
for, which is part of I thinkwhat's so scary, right? Without
(22:05):
language we feel like we don'thave control over something,
it's just happening to us. Andso even just the practice of
getting good at naming what I'mgoing through naming , I'm
literally keeping a list oflike, what are my experiences?
I don't see the physicaltherapist until next week, day
by day . What is theexperience? How is the shoulder
pain changing? What does theshoulder pain feel like? Where
(22:25):
is it? What are the activitiesI can and cannot do? Because
that's data he can understandand translate. And that's not
how I'm used to talking aboutit. I'm used to talking about
it anecdotally like this. I wasin bed for three days.
Everything was so rough I hadto, you know, call in sick to
work. That is true, but that'salso a very big statement.
Versus the first day I had tolie completely immobile and the
(22:47):
second day I got to work alittle bit and I could take a
walk and the third day I couldshower and sit up. These do not
feel like victories as I'mexplaining them, but they're
huge in terms of data, in termsof learning what my body's
trying to tell me. And so oneof the things that I wanna
offer is getting good. And Idon't want you to give up the
(23:09):
drama 'cause the drama is fun,right? But getting good at
teasing out the story that youtell about this really tough
thing, this really tough timethat you're going through and
the actual data of it, right?
My shoulder is burning. We areunclear why this movement
hurts. This movement does not,that's data and that has a lot.
(23:32):
I have a coach who says, youknow, you're, you're talking in
facts and data when you're likevery bored by the story. So
that's always a good gut check,right? When you're like, oh my
God, and then it burned forthree days, right? That's a fun
story to tell. So, you know,you're probably not in your
data line. You're probablytalking about like the drama of
it. And the drama is fun andreally useful , uh, in terms of
(23:55):
entertainment and in terms offeeling like you are going
through this and maybe I amlacking for entertainment
Netflix aside, right? So maybeI'm enjoying the drama again. I
just don't wanna take that awayfrom you. And it serves me more
to have maybe alongside that asense of the actual facts. And
so when I come back to thisidea of like, what are the
stories you're telling aboutyourself and your creative
(24:17):
career, or even just the not ,it doesn't have to be a career,
right? Tied to money. It couldbe a creative project. Like
what is the story you'retelling about the novel? You
know, is it like, oh , I triedand tried and I'm not done.
Instead of last year I wrote 50pages this year I've written 20
pages. Those feel so differentthan I tried and tried. And
(24:38):
that sense of like, and it'snot working and it's never
gonna happen. And similarly forme, this idea of, ugh , I've
never been a real actor.
Instead of I've done X numberof plays, I've done x number of
films, I've written x number ofscripts, suddenly I'm like, oh
, that's weird. Way lessinteresting of a story , story
(25:00):
, way less dramatic. But alsomy brain just kind of goes,
huh? 'cause then it getsquestiony, not a word. Uh, it
starts questioning, well thenwhat does make a real actor?
And what , where are my bonneis ? I can't say that word
either. Uh, what are the , um,credentials that allow me to
then say, yes, I am an actor.
(25:21):
No, I'm not an actor. 'causewhen you start listing data,
you just ask a lot cleanerquestions. And then, so the
drama against you is kind ofwhere we tend to live as
humans. The neutral data islike the boring middle ground.
And then for extra bonuspoints, can you flip the story
(25:43):
to the hero's journey, to youovercoming these things?
Whatever it is that's kept youfrom writing the novel you
wanna write or painting thepainting that is inside of you
or performing the songs thatyou have, right? How can you
see you as constantly showingup and trying to get these
things done in spite of all ofthese things? And look for the
(26:05):
allies that walked the pathwith you. And look for the
mentors who taught you thewisdom and look for them ways
in which you showed up foryourself. It's the place that
I'm struggling, right? Becausemystery illness has been really
kicking my. I gotta work onthat one this year. And it,
I've, it feels like every timeI get better, something else
(26:26):
happens and I feel like I keepgetting knocked sideways. And
so the story is becoming , um,more and more dramatic, harder
and harder to see where it isthat I can still have hope
because I start to think, wellnext month something else is
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Gonna gonna break.
So really why bother? And thething that I'm working on that
I am not at all there yet. SoI'm starting with a neutral and
the data, which is like, inthis month this happened, and
in this month this happened.
And on this day this burned andon this day I did this. Because
my hope is that I get to lookat that data and rather than
(27:05):
pity myself, which I think ispart of why it's hard to look
at, rather than grieve thethings I wish had been that
aren't, which is feelsunbearable right now, I can
look at that data and say, thishappened, this medical thing,
this happened, this film gotmade, this audition got done,
this manager signed me. Andthen I can maybe tell a
(27:31):
different story with thisincredible imagination of mine.
Thanks for joining me thisweek. Be well, my friends.
Hi, my friends. I feel like this is another time
where I'm hitting recordagainst my better judgment
you're listening to this andnot watching on YouTube , um, I
am wearing a sling today andI've been wearing a sling on
and off for a couple weeks now.
(00:21):
Um, I'm not gonna get too muchinto it. Uh, mostly I'm fine. I
have really bad inflammation inmy shoulder joint and , um, it
hurts to type and it hurts tosit up and it hurts to walk
right now , uh, which is like areally, really thing . And so
I've been thinking about youguys because as I've said
(00:44):
before, when you have a mysterychronic illness and you kind of
get knocked down a lot out ofthe blue , uh, it feels like
the first thing to go is thecreative projects. You know,
you, what is it? Maslow'sHierarchy of Needs. Survival is
first, and you gotta figure outhow to feed yourself. And
(01:05):
showering suddenly becomes ahard thing. Buying groceries
becomes a hard thing. So thoseget priority. Um, having a day
job that pays my bills andgives me health insurance,
gonna see doctors sittingaround in doctor's waiting
rooms and getting tests andfollowing up on tests , um,
(01:29):
if not a part-time job, andalso just take up a lot of
energy when you're already kindof drained from energy. And so
the idea that there is time toread, audition notices, we're
still in the time of thestrike. Um, uh, the actor
strike if you've beenfollowing, and the writer
strike. And so productions havehalted on anything that is ,
(01:51):
uh, run by the major studiosand the streamers. But a lot of
independent films are gettingapprovals, waivers in order to
go into production. So thereare still acting projects
happening. There are stillpeople creating new things. Um,
in honor of the , uh, writer'sstrike, we're really not,
anyone who's not in thewriter's union, which I am not,
(02:13):
is also asked not to bepitching anything new. Um, but
the same idea to really standin solidarity and show the
dearth of original material ofmaterial, period when writers
and creatives are not paidproperly for their services. So
it's not a time necessarily tobe going out and, and meeting
people, but it is a time to bemaybe working on the script on
(02:35):
your own to be honing youracting skills or getting
together with friends and doingshort films or talking about
projects that you might wannamake someday . Um, there's
always creativity to be had andeven if it's not about being
able to sell something, youknow, and get it on a network
(02:56):
someday , there is in me, and Ido believe in most everyone a
drive to be creative. It's,it's this human need to express
yourself, to connect. Um, and Ifeel like with me, it sort of
pours out of me. And I think alot about my mom and I are
very, very different. And , uh,I always kind of shorthand call
(03:18):
her a jock and myself, the emoartist of the family. Um, and,
and her real mode of expressionas far as I understand it, and
I could be wrong, is to reallygo running, is to go hiking, is
to move her body , um, andexercise and push hard. I have
never been that person. I amunderstanding more and more as
(03:39):
my body , uh, has more and moredifficulties that it was
probably never gonna be a thingI could do. I was a dancer
growing up. Um, but likerunning sports, I could never
do it just hurt too mucheverywhere. Um, so I don't have
that same drive every day tomove my body, but I do have a
similar drive every day tocreate something, to be reading
(04:00):
or writing or acting, makingmusic. And when that goes out
the window, anyone who is anathlete, I have a friend
recently who had shouldersurgery. Um, and the non
ability to get out and gobiking or running or see
friends socially around anactivity, it's really, really
(04:20):
hard on the psyche, on theability to keep going. And ,
um, so, so this is been a toughtime is what I'm saying. And
I'm trying not to go too muchinto the details of it because
I don't really want thispodcast to be about chronic
illness, although apparentlyit's becoming that because this
(04:43):
mystery illness keeps coming upwith new ways to torture me.
Um, but a lot of what I'mtrying to figure out is how to
keep going, how to not lose thefaith of the things that are
still in me to create. And I'vetalked before about finding
ways in which to do like microgoals, you know, even just
using Instagram to post aninteresting picture and write a
(05:05):
short story or micro blog or agreat caption, right? Um, I've
gotten into flash memoirwriting, which I could do from
bed, which is great. Um, and,and those are specifically one
to two page essays. And I'mloving that expression and I'm
loving even the editingprocess, which is not something
(05:25):
I've never quite enjoyedbefore. And I am , cannot play
guitar right now because myshoulder is. Um, but hopefully
in a, I was gonna say a fewweeks, I don't know how long
it'll take for my shoulder toreally , um, here's the
problem. I got no broken bones,which is great. I've got dis
(05:45):
dislocation, which is amazing.
But broken bones weirdly areeasier to heal because once
they knit back together, youcan just kind of get back to
things. And inflammation inyour tendons is really tricky
because you need to exercise inorder to build strength. But
when you exercise, you alsoinflame everything. And then
you kickstart going back tosquare one, which means rest
(06:07):
and ice and doing nothing. AndI'm kind of in that cycle where
I was feeling better. I went tophysical therapy, we barely did
anything, and I've been inexcruciating pain for three
days ever since. So big suckagein that. And so, you know, I
might not be able to playguitar, but I can be singing
and I can be learning songs.
(06:28):
And , um, there are always waysto be creating stuff. And one
of the biggest ways to becreating , uh, as I was
thinking about you guys isthinking about the stories in
which the stories we tell aboutourselves. I've been getting,
as always, a lot of lifecoaching around being sick
(06:48):
because it's a really toughthing to navigate. And I keep
getting called out by mycoaches for saying, my body
keeps breaking. And they'relike, you know, that might not
be the most positive way totalk about your body. And I'm
like, that's fair. I'm surethere's a better way. Um, and
their point isn't asking me tobe hunky dory pie in the sky
(07:10):
and like, everything is fine.
Or huggy dory tomorrow, youknow, sunshine Annie , uh, the
sun will come out andeverything will be fine. It's
really not about that. But Iwas thinking about how one of
the absolute gifts and alsocurses of being an artist is
your vast imagination. And somy ability to write a story
(07:33):
that feels incredibly dramaticbecause I feel inside of an
incredible medical drama , um,is easy. And, and using
language is also a way that Imake sense of what I'm going
through. And so feeling like mybody just keeps breaking, feels
(07:54):
very aptt. And it might beuseful in some ways in order
for me to kind of , um,understand at a very base level
how I'm feeling. But I thinkwhat ends up happening, which
is why I keep getting calledout on it , um, for it not
being the most useful, is thatit becomes this sense of my
(08:17):
body keeps breaking and there'snothing I can do, right?
There's a hidden secondsentence to that. There's a
hidden follow up , or my bodykeeps breaking and doctors
don't know why, or my bodykeeps breaking and I don't know
when the next thing will be. Sowhy bother trying anything else
now? And so what you start tosee when you go looking for the
(08:41):
second sentence thataccompanies the first sentence
or the, not the hidden meaning,but the yeah, the like
unfinished thought, is thatsaying, my body is broken even
to myself, even
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Casually to friends, even casually to the barista
when I go with my sling and askfor coffee is reinforcing these
ideas that I don't have agency,I don't have clarity, and
potentially I don't have a tonof hope. And what's really
(09:15):
interesting is those aren'tactually entirely true in terms
of I work really hard everyday. I spent the weekend and
the past couple of daysresearching the glenohumeral
joint, I believe that's theright word , uh, which is a
shoulder joint and researchingall of the muscles of the
(09:37):
shoulder joint and researchingall of the muscles of the back
and trying to learn thembecause I want them to get
strong. And I'm realizing thatthe exercises my physical
therapist are giving me are tooadvanced for where I'm at in my
inflammation. And so I need tobe able to come up with a plan
and also discuss with him hisplans and understand what he
(09:58):
wants me to do, and then try tofigure out what my body can do.
And so I am teaching myself tobe an expert in my own body and
I'm teaching myself to advocatefor myself with medical experts
who know what they know andfigure out where does my body
meet their, their knowledge andwhere does my body have its own
(10:19):
wisdom and need a different wayof doing things. It's
incredibly hard work. It'sincredibly exhausting. I'm a
nerd, so I'm kind of lovinglearning Latin words of like
googling the etymology of, whatwas the other one? It was , uh,
latisimus Dorsey. And whichmeans like the broad back
(10:39):
shoulder from the Latin. I'mpretty sure I'm messing that
up, but something like that,right? So I'm nerding out
because I'm me and I've way toomuch time to kill in bed
because I can't really use myarm for much. And I've seen all
the Netflix, I think. Um, sothere are ways in which I am
rising to the occasion, andalso my shoulder is better
(11:01):
today than it was yesterday andbetter yesterday than it was
the day before. I'm able to situpright for the length of this,
which is progress. Um, I wentfor a short walk yesterday,
very short, which was progress.
So they're very small victoriesand it's easy to tell the story
of being inside of the storm ofthis and not quite seeing your
(11:24):
way out in part because it doesfeel so frustrating. A lot of
that is how come other peopleget to just gallivant about
with their functioning, youknow, limbs and joints. And I
literally did this getting amassage because
are limits to my body. I'mstill learning. And, and so the
(11:50):
story that I have that my bodyis broken, and I don't know if
it'll ever stop being broken,also goes along with the
stories of how I talk aboutbeing an artist and an actor,
which I don't share a lot, butbecause they're so negative.
But in my own head, it's oftenI don't have X, Y , z and
credits, therefore, I'm not aquote unquote real actor. I
(12:13):
haven't been paid thousands ofdollars to be to have a part on
a TV show or film, therefore,I'm not a quote unquote real
actor. You know, there's allthis messiness around the
commerce of acting and the artof acting and they don't always
meet. And , and this idea alsothat someone else gets to
(12:35):
decide when you're a realactor, someone else gets to
decide. This will be parallelback to being, you know, sick
and injured . The doctors arelike, yeah, your bones are
great. I'm like, cool, cool. Istill can't get outta bed
'cause I'm so much pain. And sothe, the experience I'm having
inside of my body is notmatching what I'm being told.
(12:58):
Um, doesn't mean my bonesaren't totally fine, it means
there's a bigger story to it.
But what happens when I go todoctors repeatedly, I'm gonna
go see an immunologist nextweek, and they run a bunch of
tests and they're like, yeah,there's nothing wrong. I'm
like, cool, cool. Still can'tget outta bed. That gets really
tricky, right? Because my livedexperience is not matching with
the reality of their data andtheir science. And I'm not at
(13:22):
all saying their science iswrong. I just think there's
more we don't know about thebody than what we do know. And
it can be really hard to havedoctors tell you that there's
nothing wrong simply becausetheir tests don't find
anything. Instead of saying, mytests haven't found something,
it means I don't know how tohelp you, but something is
going on anyway. What ends uphappening is this lack of
(13:45):
agency, right? Because in orderto figure out and fix my body,
I still gotta go to people whoknow more than I do. I still
gotta get tests . I still gottafigure out how do I download
their knowledge so I can learn,right? I don't know how to
rehab my shoulder. I don't knowhow to make my deltoid strong,
although I'm learning. Um, I, Idon't know all the things that
(14:07):
I need to know. I don't evenknow really what's wrong. Like
I didn't quite realize how muchI wasn't exercising my shoulder
and therefore letting themuscles get weak and therefore
causing more , um, stress on mytendon. Um, and sometimes you
don't know something until youhit a point of crisis and then
like, oh, I should have beendoing this all along, right?
And so now I'm trying to catchup and learn that so I can have
(14:29):
new habits. And where it ,where it parallels to this idea
of like how we are as artistsis I often think that in
Hollywood, in acting, there isa, there, there, right? There's
a place you can land wheresuddenly you have been approved
of. Suddenly you are thesuccessful person that you
wanna be. And the more I readabout different actors and
(14:52):
artists, the more I realizethat there is no they're there,
there is a lot ofconstellations of people making
things. There are studios whomaybe have bigger marketing
budgets so their films get seenor heard about by more people,
but they can also rubber stampyou on a Marvel film and then a
year later decide to drop youand then you don't belong to
(15:15):
that machine anymore. Andyou're sort of always left in a
position of fighting for Revel, uh, fighting for relevance
and trying to figure out how doyou create a stamp or how do
you make a stamp? Or how do youreach people with your art?
Same with I'm sure galleriesthis idea that, you know,
you've got paintings that youwanna sell. Who is the person
(15:36):
who's gonna help you getspotlighted so that others can
recognize you? And when are yourecognized enough? And then how
hard do you have to work tostay relevant? There's this sea
change that's constantlyhappening. The idea of artists
are always , um, certainly withactors, they say you're only as
good as your latest film. Um,and, and I'm sure with, you
(15:58):
know, musicians also, if youlook at , uh, album releases
and like the, the , I readinterviews, right? I will talk
about like the last two albumsdidn't really do much. And this
one is doing really great andsort of like the journey of it.
And you're constantly trying tofigure out this intersection
between refining the art andthe storytelling, the the craft
(16:18):
and also the, the marketing ofit. The way to reach people and
maybe get paid by it in orderto make your livelihood, right?
These are like very differentbuckets that intersect. And so
it can be , um, confusing tofigure out which one you could
be on a Marvel film and getpaid a ton of money, but then
(16:39):
feel artistically createcreatively kind of empty. And
so maybe you go and make anindie film for a couple years,
but then you need the studiobudget in order to, and the
studio marketing for people toknow you as a household name so
that then indie films will hireyou because indie films need a
household name in order fortheir film to get seen. So
you're constantly circling backand forth between the big
(16:59):
projects that have their ownmarketing machine and the
smaller ones that maybe feelmore creatively fulfilling. And
then trying to figure out howto pair bills in the middle of
all that. That's at least foractors and filmmakers and
directors. So there's this ideathat I have of how do I tell
the story of my place in thisconstellation? How do I tell
(17:22):
the story of, you know, Ihaven't made, I was gonna say I
haven't made a feature film.
And I was like, wait, I havemade a feature film. It's on
Amazon, right? I haven't madeenough films. I'm like, well,
I've made what four films? Whatis enough? Right? I haven't
been on a, and again, my brain,you can hear it, is looking for
(17:42):
the notness, the not enough,the haven't done this, the this
proves whatever. And so again,it's where my imagination is
creating the story of notenough, the story of , uh, not
worthy, the story of notbelonging. Those are just for
me, very , uh, well laidtracks. I tend to think those
(18:07):
things about a lot of differentthings , uh, which is true of
everybody. We all have ourthemes, we all have certain
beliefs we hold about ourselvesand they tend to repeat and
replay. So you'll probably feelthe same thing about work as
you will about your body, asyou will about maybe your
relationships as about money.
They tend to, it's just how ourbrains are, right? And because
(18:30):
our brains believe these sostrongly, they look for
evidence of these things allthe time. And so what I wanna
get back to is this idea thatwe as artists have these
incredible imaginations. Youknow, I can spin daydream, all
kinds of amazing stories andterrible stories. Dramas half
the fun, right? The angst andthe battle and the conflict and
(18:53):
the yearning. These were whatmake great novels and great
films and great music. And itcan be fun weirdly, right? We
go see, we go see films thatmake us jump and scream and cry
and we call that entertainment,right? Letting ourself feel
things really deeply is, isfun, which I use in air quotes
(19:16):
because of its ability torelease in you something that
you are maybe itching to feeland don't have other places to
release. And it also just feelsgood. It's like people get on
rollercoasters right? To go upand then feel that incredible
high adrenaline and then haveyour stomach drop as you go
down the other side. That isfun. Feeling that intensity is
(19:36):
fun. And so I can daydream anintense scenario about a fight
or meeting a meeting a dude andhaving some big love affair or
you know, we tend to like goback and relive our last fights
or whatever it is. And we cando the same thing with our
lives, with the facts of ourlives, with saying this, you
(19:56):
know, shoulder thing that ishappening. Um, it's easy
because it is painful and it isscary to have to cancel all of
my plans and stay in bed andnot know when I will be better
and not feel like a doctorknows how to tell me when to
get better. But I gotta keepfiguring this out with their
(20:17):
help. But really figuring thisout on my own , um, that's
terrifying. And so in the midstof all that panic and all that
time on my hands , um, it canbe easy, convenient shorthand
to spin a tale of brokenness,of drama, of. And so what I've
(20:37):
been thinking about is like,what if I flip that and I get
to keep the like drama, but Ibecome like the hero's journey
of like, oh man, and then thishappened and then got knocked
down and had to prove theirworthiness by doing X, Y, Z.
And then, you know, theirfaithful friend came and joined
them and helped pull them out,maybe cook them meals and
right. So trying. And as I ,even as I say that, I'm like,
(21:01):
oh , that's so lame, right? Iprefer stories and it's good to
know this about yourself. Ithink most of us do. I sort of
prefer the stories where it'stoo hard and I'm failing and
the world is against me and mybody's against me. That's one
of my patterns. So that's whyI'm trying to highlight it here
and for myself is to catchwhere it is that I tell
(21:24):
stories. Because if I think theworld is against me, my body's
against me, then the stories Itell of this journey will not
be how much I've managed tostay in the podcast and how
much I've managed to make ashort film that went to a film
festival and how much I'vemanaged to learn about my body
so I could care for it betterand better and better every
(21:44):
time something happens. Andlearn to not advocate for it
better and better. And learn toput the pieces together of why
all these joints keep , um,they're not breaking but they
keep , um, inflaming, right?
There's something happeningthat don't even have language
for, which is part of I thinkwhat's so scary, right? Without
(22:05):
language we feel like we don'thave control over something,
it's just happening to us. Andso even just the practice of
getting good at naming what I'mgoing through naming , I'm
literally keeping a list oflike, what are my experiences?
I don't see the physicaltherapist until next week, day
by day . What is theexperience? How is the shoulder
pain changing? What does theshoulder pain feel like? Where
(22:25):
is it? What are the activitiesI can and cannot do? Because
that's data he can understandand translate. And that's not
how I'm used to talking aboutit. I'm used to talking about
it anecdotally like this. I wasin bed for three days.
Everything was so rough I hadto, you know, call in sick to
work. That is true, but that'salso a very big statement.
Versus the first day I had tolie completely immobile and the
(22:47):
second day I got to work alittle bit and I could take a
walk and the third day I couldshower and sit up. These do not
feel like victories as I'mexplaining them, but they're
huge in terms of data, in termsof learning what my body's
trying to tell me. And so oneof the things that I wanna
offer is getting good. And Idon't want you to give up the
(23:09):
drama 'cause the drama is fun,right? But getting good at
teasing out the story that youtell about this really tough
thing, this really tough timethat you're going through and
the actual data of it, right?
My shoulder is burning. We areunclear why this movement
hurts. This movement does not,that's data and that has a lot.
(23:32):
I have a coach who says, youknow, you're, you're talking in
facts and data when you're likevery bored by the story. So
that's always a good gut check,right? When you're like, oh my
God, and then it burned forthree days, right? That's a fun
story to tell. So, you know,you're probably not in your
data line. You're probablytalking about like the drama of
it. And the drama is fun andreally useful , uh, in terms of
(23:55):
entertainment and in terms offeeling like you are going
through this and maybe I amlacking for entertainment
Netflix aside, right? So maybeI'm enjoying the drama again. I
just don't wanna take that awayfrom you. And it serves me more
to have maybe alongside that asense of the actual facts. And
so when I come back to thisidea of like, what are the
stories you're telling aboutyourself and your creative
(24:17):
career, or even just the not ,it doesn't have to be a career,
right? Tied to money. It couldbe a creative project. Like
what is the story you'retelling about the novel? You
know, is it like, oh , I triedand tried and I'm not done.
Instead of last year I wrote 50pages this year I've written 20
pages. Those feel so differentthan I tried and tried. And
(24:38):
that sense of like, and it'snot working and it's never
gonna happen. And similarly forme, this idea of, ugh , I've
never been a real actor.
Instead of I've done X numberof plays, I've done x number of
films, I've written x number ofscripts, suddenly I'm like, oh
, that's weird. Way lessinteresting of a story , story
(25:00):
, way less dramatic. But alsomy brain just kind of goes,
huh? 'cause then it getsquestiony, not a word. Uh, it
starts questioning, well thenwhat does make a real actor?
And what , where are my bonneis ? I can't say that word
either. Uh, what are the , um,credentials that allow me to
then say, yes, I am an actor.
(25:21):
No, I'm not an actor. 'causewhen you start listing data,
you just ask a lot cleanerquestions. And then, so the
drama against you is kind ofwhere we tend to live as
humans. The neutral data islike the boring middle ground.
And then for extra bonuspoints, can you flip the story
(25:43):
to the hero's journey, to youovercoming these things?
Whatever it is that's kept youfrom writing the novel you
wanna write or painting thepainting that is inside of you
or performing the songs thatyou have, right? How can you
see you as constantly showingup and trying to get these
things done in spite of all ofthese things? And look for the
(26:05):
allies that walked the pathwith you. And look for the
mentors who taught you thewisdom and look for them ways
in which you showed up foryourself. It's the place that
I'm struggling, right? Becausemystery illness has been really
kicking my. I gotta work onthat one this year. And it,
I've, it feels like every timeI get better, something else
(26:26):
happens and I feel like I keepgetting knocked sideways. And
so the story is becoming , um,more and more dramatic, harder
and harder to see where it isthat I can still have hope
because I start to think, wellnext month something else is
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Gonna gonna break.
So really why bother? And thething that I'm working on that
I am not at all there yet. SoI'm starting with a neutral and
the data, which is like, inthis month this happened, and
in this month this happened.
And on this day this burned andon this day I did this. Because
my hope is that I get to lookat that data and rather than
(27:05):
pity myself, which I think ispart of why it's hard to look
at, rather than grieve thethings I wish had been that
aren't, which is feelsunbearable right now, I can
look at that data and say, thishappened, this medical thing,
this happened, this film gotmade, this audition got done,
this manager signed me. Andthen I can maybe tell a
(27:31):
different story with thisincredible imagination of mine.
Thanks for joining me thisweek. Be well, my friends.
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