November 30, 2021 • 49 mins
Vanessa & Andy get ready for Advent with this text from Luke 3.
Who is John the Baptist? Why is this a classic Advent text? How do we mark the time in anticipation of "God with Us"?
Who hears from God? What are the prerequisites for hearing from God? Where does God like to reveal himself? The answers to these questions might surprise!
Check out Vanessa's How to Advent Guide
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Andy Withrow (00:02):
Welcome to the bear with me podcast on table
radio, where we aim to integratebelief and practice in the
Christianlife. It's working great. Are we
on? Yeah, we're on. Hi, Vanessa.
Hi, Andy. Welcome back. Thankyou. Or are you can welcome you
(00:25):
back.
Vanessa Caruso (00:25):
Welcome back.
Andy. Thanks. It's great to seeyou. It's good to be thanks for
being here.
Andy Withrow (00:28):
Yeah. Thank you.
It's good to have you as aguest. Every show, or it's good
to be your guest every show,however, both however we think
about it. This my show andyou're my guest, or is this your
show? And I'm your guest.
Vanessa Caruso (00:39):
It feels a little bit more like yours. No.
Andy Withrow (00:42):
Your name comes first in the credits, does it?
Yeah. Wow. No, that's because ofalphabetized by last name.
Caruso Withrow. She was usuallymy experience growing up in
school every year. Right. Lastone. Right, Withrow. Except for
when Dale Zodrow was in a cycle.
Shout oout to Dale! Dale, ifyou're listening - Miss you.
(01:12):
Where do we go from there?
That's it. That's all okay.
Thanks, everyone, for tuning inthis week. We're glad that you
could be with us. And we'll seeyou next time. Just kidding.
We're gonna We're just not withit. That's it. We're jumping
into another Advent Text thisWeek. So we're getting ready for
Advent and I've admin or we'rein Advent. I don't know we're
(01:33):
we're recording this in the endof October and Evans a month
away for us. But who knows whenthis? Yeah, yeah, we'll talk to
our producers and the people whohelp run our podcast. Yeah,
people we are working on thisshow. Right downers. Yeah. And
they'll get it out when they getit out. But they they think
(01:54):
those they go through the focusgroups and yeah, do all the hard
work with that kind of stuff. Solet's just leave that up to
them. We're just here for them.
We're here for the contentbasically. Alright, enough of
that. Let's get into Lukechapter three we had the first
six verses but Vanessa couldn'tstop reading so she may pull in
(02:16):
extra verses here she threatenedto before we hit record it was
through eight see no wonderwell, maybe eight and. And.
Noes. Great. Do you want to readit or do you want me to?
Vanessa Caruso (02:32):
You can go ahead.
Andy Withrow (02:33):
Should I go ahead?
Yeah. Okay. This is Luke chapterthree, one through six. Listen
to this, this is good. In the15th year of the reign of
Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilatebeing governor of over Judea,
and Herod being Tetrarch ofGalilee, and his brother Philip
Tetrarch, of the region ofEtruria. And tracking itis, and
(02:54):
Licinius Tetrarch of Aibileen. Ilooked it up. It's not Texas,
it's different parts of theMiddle East. During the high
priesthood of Annas andCaiaphas, the word of God came
to John, the son of Zechariah,in the wilderness, and he went
into all the region around theJordan proclaiming a baptism of
(03:17):
repentance, for the forgivenessof sins, as it is written in the
book of the words of Isaiah, theprophet, the voice of one crying
in the wilderness, Prepare theway of the Lord, make his path
straight. Every valley shall befilled in every mountain in Hill
shall be made low, and thecrooked shall become straight,
and the rough places shallbecome level ways and all flesh
(03:38):
shall see the salvation of Godwill do to vote on this verses
here. Thank you. He said,therefore, to the crowds that
came out to be baptized by him,You brood of vipers gets Yeah,
it's dark it does click Whowarned you to flee from the
wrath to come bear fruits inkeeping with repentance? Do not
say to yourselves we haveAbraham as our father for I tell
(03:58):
you God is able from thesestones to raise up children for
Abraham even now the axe is laidto the root of the trees every
tree therefore that does notbear good fruit is cut down and
thrown into the fire
Vanessa Caruso (04:14):
Yes, thank you for adding that.
Andy Withrow (04:17):
Alright, so I so when I first wrote to you
Vanessa about me because we'redoing a different texts for
today, and I was getting intothe some of the Advent prep for
my for my own preaching orteaching, and this one just
stuck out to me as somethingmaybe really interesting and fun
to do. And one of the thingsthat stuck out to me was this,
(04:39):
these opening lines of, of allthese rulers and religious
leaders, right, Tiberius Caesar,the armistice Yeah, he's who's
the emperor of the of the wholeknown world at the time. And
then you have Pontius Pilate wasgovernor of Judea, which is
where Jerusalem is in thesouthern part of it. his real
(05:00):
heritage project of Galilee,kind of the northern part. And
his brother Philip, you know,and then Licinius. And then the
high priesthood of Annas andCaiaphas, they were in charge
of, of the religious center ofIsrael. And so just how Luke one
is concerned for historicity,like, when did this happen?
(05:24):
essentially giving you the yearthe date, this is what's going
on. But also just thisjuxtaposition you have. Where
would you expect God's word tocome? Yeah. During during all of
this, like, here's the peoplewho are in charge. Here's the
political and religious leadersof the day.
Vanessa Caruso (05:47):
Yeah, with these fancy names. Yeah. And titles
and titles. And then it comes toJohn. Yeah. out in the boonies.
Andy Withrow (05:57):
Yeah. Who doesn't?
Isn't doesn't have a title here.
John, just the son of Zechariah.
We know from earlier and Lukeserved in the temple, he's part
of the priesthood or at leastthe Levitical tradition. I think
a priest is a priest because hewent in to serve inside the Holy
of Holies. That's when he gotthe he interacted with the angel
right about John's birth.
Vanessa Caruso (06:23):
Right. Right.
That's the Zachariah. Yeah. Andhe was silenced. Or, yeah,
Andy Withrow (06:29):
he had some sort of thing where he, you know, you
have a vision of the angel inthe temple, and probably the
first thing to say, isn't how Iknow it's going to be true.
Right of it. And it Gabriel getsa little bit. I'm, I stay in the
presence a little. Okay, here'sa sign for you. You're not gonna
be able to speak. Right? Likedon't? Don't take off angels.
(06:53):
Yeah, I guess. Yeah, one of thetakeaways definitely. But
anyway, we're here. And here'sall these, here's all the big
picture stuff that's happening.
And this is where God decides tosend his word. So I think that
was that was pretty fascinating.
Yeah, for me.
Vanessa Caruso (07:12):
So what did it evoke for you, just realizing
that again?
Andy Withrow (07:17):
Well, I mean, being part of Generation X, I'm
very, you know, sort of the antiestablishment, kind of, in me.
But I think I think there's,it's not hard for people to
identify with, or to resonatewith some of this idea of, of
truth coming to sort of thelowly or more the humble, like,
(07:39):
that's built into so much of ourstories, or movies and shows and
books and everything else. Yeah.
is sort of that theme of the thehumble, receives the truth, or
sees what other people don'tsee. Yeah. And at least in this
story, that's, that seems to bepart of it. Yeah. You know, in
(08:02):
other parts of the Bible, Jesus,or God does speak to priests
does speak with from withinstructures. And so it really,
when I say, I wrote down thatGod sends His word without
respect for title or position,yeah, get really means that
like, it's not anti title orposition. It's like, No, I'
(08:23):
looking for a specific thinwithin somebody to receive fro
me. And that may come to thhigh priests in a given era, bu
it may not. And in this casemaybe it reveals something abou
the Israel of John's and Jesus'day, that God's word didn't com
from within those structuresbut comes out not just t
somebody who doesn't have thtitle or position but als
(08:46):
geographically in thwilderness, like not i
Jerusalem, not where the templis not in the centers o
commerce, or politics oreligion or whatever. Yeah. S
what might that say about thnation at that time? And wher
would we expect God's word tcome? In our tim
Vanessa Caruso (09:13):
now? It's good question.
Andy Withrow (09:17):
Thanks. What's your answer?
Vanessa Caruso (09:20):
I don't know.
It's hard to really wrap my mindaround this because being a
Christian, you know, we are partof the inside group of religious
people in our faith tradition,you know, like we're inside the
church. And we're like, thedominant party in that way. And
(09:44):
so to read this and see that,that God came outside that it's
confusing for me to to figureout am I like Mary and John or
am I like, with my affluence andmy privilege and everything? And
I'm more like, the religiousleader types? Yeah. Who have
(10:08):
like a fairly easy life kind ofthing. Sometimes I feel like
marry, you know? Yeah. Andsometimes I've I think I might
be more I might be diluted
Andy Withrow (10:21):
Caiaphas Yeah,
Vanessa Caruso (10:22):
yeah. Yeah. Do you do you get confused about
that? Like, I guess maybe that'spart of the problem of trying to
find yourself in the story.
Andy Withrow (10:32):
Yeah, well, I think at the very least, this
has to come as a warning. Right,be careful, especially coming
from within a religiousinstitution that that doesn't
give that does not baptize youinto infallibility and seeing
all things. Clearly. Yeah.
Right. So but there's, I mean,throughout church history shows
(10:53):
the impulse of reformationright. Especially since the
Reformation, but even beforethat, like within the within the
church, and, and even in the OldTestament, like a lot of the
prophets are, that is the thinglike that is the theme is like
there's something wrong with theinstitution with the with the
thing itself, and it's theprovince calling that back, or
(11:14):
pronouncing like it's too late,your comes, here comes comes the
end the judgment, then x is lateat the root of the tree, see you
too. So I think that helps. Ifyou are coming from within an
institution, it helps keep youvery low. Yeah, humble.
(11:35):
Hopefully, yeah. To be open tooutside voices, would be a
value. Yeah. Knowing that Goddoes not not reading your blank,
check the truth here. So how doI have what are the practices
that we can be involved in tomake sure that we're listening
(11:56):
to John's in the wilderness, orwe're a part of that we went in
Not, not finding ourselvesopposing God in His Word. seems
important.
Vanessa Caruso (12:09):
I love that, that that's where he took it is
to hear it as a warning. Atleast partly. And to you know,
it makes me think of kind of thefalse comfort that comes up in
that second part about beingchildren of Abraham, like, just
kind of coasting on that. Andthere is there is a comfort that
(12:31):
can come from being part of agroup and having some security.
And so practices that, that keepus a little bit uncomfortable,
and vigilant and open that doesfeel relevant. Yeah. It reminds
me to this week in thelectionary was Jesus saying, you
know, that part about the, it'slike a wedding banquet kind of
(12:56):
parable or something. And itsays, people will knock and want
to be led in? And they'll say,but we ate and drank with you,
and you taught in our cities,and the bridegroom says, but I
didn't know you let go away fromme. So it felt like a similar
kind of eerie, like, Oh, I'm,I'm so I eat and drink. I do
(13:18):
communion with other disciples.
And I listened to Jesus'steachings regularly. So it's
possible to do those things intostill not be known. by Christ.
It sounds like it's theimplication. Yeah. So it feels
like a similar kind of warning,like, Oh, yeah. But the other
part is the theme in thispassage, the valleys will be
(13:44):
raised up, and the hills broughtlow. I feel like we're talking
about one aspect of what itmeans to be brought low, to be
humbled to be open. The otherpiece is that there's parts of
us and our society and ourchurch that might need to be
dignified. And have some, alsosome take some encouragement
(14:05):
from this. And some confidencethat feels like the raising up
but
Andy Withrow (14:11):
yeah, yeah, well, the I mean, the church in North
America isn't what it once was.
The church in Canada isn't whatit once was. Right? Yeah. So
there is there is the sensewhere you can feel very much if
you're if you are part of thechurch that does feel a bit like
the wasteland, like thewilderness a bit. There's like a
(14:36):
remnant are much more elite,especially here on the West
Coast are much more of theminority. If you go to church on
a Sunday, yeah. And themajority. Yeah. And so that that
story has changed quite a bit inthe last several decades. Yeah.
And so I think it's passageslike this, that in even Jesus
birth, you know that Just thesekind of dark corners not
(15:01):
televised, right, this isn't thecenter stage. And so there is
actually some comfort and likeGod likes to work in these
moments when you if you'releading a church or a small
group or something, and it justfeels like oh, there's not a lot
of energy here, it's kind ofquiet, we have some faithful
people, it's hard. It's hard.
(15:25):
But then to remember that thisis where God likes to work,
right is because he's often not,he's often doing the stuff not
on center stage, on purpose, orby design, and sort of take
some, some encouragement fromthat. Yeah. And that some of the
humility that's built into someof that. Feeling a bit on the
(15:48):
outside or on the outskirts,actually helps make you a better
reader or a better listener, asin, as in John's case here. So
So I think that's pretty neat.
And even just the just the idea,cuz the first thing we're done
was God sends His Word. Andthat's true, not just in this
passage, but all over all overthe Bible, from Genesis to
Revelation. And I think that'ssomething that idea by itself is
(16:10):
something that's pretty amazing.
That that is hard to believe, ormight be hard for us to, to
really believe because youreally think about that. Just
the significance that God wouldchoose to communicate and want a
relationship based oncommunication. Yeah. That seems
(16:32):
pretty important. Yeah. It's notlike they thought about that
before. Yeah. With your withyour line of work. Yeah, I would
guess,
Vanessa Caruso (16:39):
a little bit.
Yeah, the assumption I'm noEugene Peterson has like such a
great quote about this, that Idon't remember by heart. But you
know, it's kind of like achanging worldview from thinking
that we need to do stuff inorder to get God to show up, or
intervene or something. Changingthat mindset to the assumption
(17:02):
that God is always working, andspeaking, and communicating and
speaking. And the invitation tous is to wake up and hear and
see what God is already doing.
That's a pretty big shift. AndGod sending God's Word through
(17:26):
from through many messengers.
Yeah, John's just in the line ofthis
Andy Withrow (17:30):
makes me wonder if God wasn't also sending a sword
to Annas and Caiaphas. The highpriests
Vanessa Caruso (17:35):
interesting. But
Andy Withrow (17:38):
well, yeah, or this wasn't heard. Yeah. wasn't
recognized as I like that.
Because it reminds me of the andwe might do a little sneak
preview. But we Venice, I mightexplore some of the parables in
Matthew's Gospel. Yeah. And inone of them, and the, the kind
of most popular one is theparable of the sower and the
seed. The seed is God's word.
(18:00):
And where is it sown?
Vanessa Caruso (18:01):
Everywhere,
Andy Withrow (18:02):
literally everywhere. It's just like, it's
not like some seed was sownhere, but not here. Like the
whole point of the prayer waslike, one of the points is
everywhere. question isn'twhether the word is coming. It's
a question of if it's received,how is it received or not
received? Cool. And so if youwant to kind of apply that to
(18:24):
Caesar, Pilate, the governor,the tetrarchy, in this area, the
high priests. But here's here'sJohn receiving it, doing
something with it. And here it'shere's the crop of all the fruit
because everyone's going out nowto John in the wilderness.
Everyone from Jerusalem andJudea, everyone from all the
regions around the Jordan arecoming out in the middle of
(18:46):
nowhere just to hear the sky.
Which begs the question, becauseI think a lot of us could read
about John the Baptist and justthink, crazy person. Yep,
definitely. Eccentric weird. Whywould we, why would anyone trust
How do we know? Definitely.
(19:06):
Because you've got we've gotplenty of those types around.
And so is it just like, Oh,we're not listening? Are they
legit? But we also know thattheir stories of not healthy.
Yeah, got the Jim Jones back inthe day drinking the Kool Aid.
Right. So it's like, you can'tjust without discretion or
(19:28):
discernment, just listen orfollow anybody who says hey, the
saith the Lord.
Vanessa Caruso (19:34):
Yeah. Yeah, like the Mars Hill podcast is kind of
about a leader who had such astrong personality and
persuasive you know, kind ofJohn the Baptist he Yeah. So
it's a great example. I love theidea of the word being sent,
(19:55):
like seed thrown all over theplace and But it landing in
don't Yeah. Well, that gets back
Andy Withrow (20:03):
to what you were talking about earlier about kind
of your your focus and your alot of your work is like, well,
let's assume God is speaking.
Because it just seems like inthe Bible that's the assumption
is he's a relational God. Yeahand personal God desires
connection Yeah. In and so ifthat's true then what are the
obstacles to receiving orhearing God's word
Vanessa Caruso (20:27):
which, for me goes back to that hills and
valleys like that is to me likea construction metaphor that
says, What is getting in the wayof accessing and responding to?
Yeah, God in your life? Yeah,make it level, like smooth out
(20:47):
the rough places like, figureout what's keeping or hindering
you not how to get it's adifferent posture to think of
like, Yeah, I'm going to climbup this ladder of stuff to do,
right. And I'm going to reachthe top, but I'm going to get
something it's kind of likeassuming that. Yeah. Okay, I'm
(21:09):
getting a little confused bymyself. Can I move to No, we're
not there yet.
Andy Withrow (21:13):
Move to why? Well, I
Vanessa Caruso (21:14):
was just thinking we're already
Andy Withrow (21:15):
jumping. Okay, so just go for it. Okay.
Vanessa Caruso (21:19):
So when I read about this passage, I read that,
you know, with John shoutingprepare a way for the Lord, that
it was typical. You'd probablyalready know this for kings
leader types to have a heraldsthat went before them kind of
announcing the arrival of thisentourage. But the only people
in that time who would actuallyneed a paved road are people
(21:40):
with entourages. Yeah.
Andy Withrow (21:42):
So emperor was coming. Yeah, it was a real
thing that they would Oh, wouldyour city prepare if the emperor
was coming? Well, look at theOlympics. How would Victoria
prepare if the Queen the Queenwas coming like that? You didn't
go to
Vanessa Caruso (21:56):
I met the Queen, the prince and princess at the
crib center. You did? Yeah. Justtoday? No. When we first moved
here, and Leah was in preschoolthere. They came. Yeah. Yeah.
Nice. He was amazing.
Andy Withrow (22:09):
That was a big deal.
Vanessa Caruso (22:10):
It was a big deal. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm
thinking of the Yeah, theOlympics in Vancouver. Huge
deal. Construction wise. Oh,yeah. I mean, yeah. Okay, we're
getting off topic. Butbasically, it was a real thing
that a road would have to bepaid. Yeah. And this prepare the
way of the Lord reminds me ofother places. Maybe it's John
(22:31):
that says that talks about thehighway for our God. Yeah, like
creating an accessible way forpeople to write access, and
connect.
Andy Withrow (22:43):
Yeah, and it and after brush up on my prophets,
but from what I remember, partof that highway motif or
metaphor was also Israel comingback out of exile highway back
to their land nice, whichthey're in Now in this passage,
but there's still this theme ofexile for this people. They're
there in their land, but it'snot their land belongs to
(23:04):
Tiberius Caesar. Right. So it'stheir, their it's a colonial
colonialism in their in theirmoment. Yeah. And, and so there
is some sadness about that. Andgrief, and feeling at all is not
well, with God's people. Andthere isn't there is some
tension and divide between Godand His people, which plays into
(23:25):
a lot of John's language here.
Right? Of he's coming. There'sthis highway that's needs to be
or is being constructed. Andmaybe it is tied to this idea of
also you are going to be part ofthat highway, because you're
going to come out of its time tocome out of exile. Yeah, so that
language of repentance is, isjust means change. Like, get
with the program. This ishappening. Get ready. It's
(23:48):
coming. But we brought thatforward to our moment. Yeah. And
think of what is it that wherewhere is our estrangement with
God, which is personal, newindividual to individual. But
also, what does it mean toprepare?
Vanessa Caruso (24:10):
Yeah.
Andy Withrow (24:11):
Now that sort of, we're talking about Advent.
Vanessa Caruso (24:13):
Love it. I meant to look up prepare, but I forgot
to like what the word means. Butdoesn't it sound like it means
pre cut down? Prepare,
Andy Withrow (24:21):
prepare, prepare.
It's interesting. I
Vanessa Caruso (24:22):
never thought about that. I feel like it means
that in a way, I just mean, kindof the more literal, yeah. Are
you looking it up?
Andy Withrow (24:28):
Well, maybe just so I was
Vanessa Caruso (24:31):
kind of thinking of it, meaning pre cut down,
which is just so appropriate fora season of Advent. When
culturally it's like the biggestshopping consumer holiday of the
whole year, and it's typicallyexperienced in the North West,
(24:52):
at least as a really busy timeof year. Yeah, like, there's
productions there's partiesThey're shopping. So, to pre cut
down has just made me wonder.
Similarly, like we do for Lent,where we anticipate the season
that we're going to get involvedin, and we, you know, maybe
(25:15):
decide on something we're goingto fast or some way to simplify
our discipleship during thatseason. Advent feels like an
invitation to do the same thing.
Before Advent actually startsto, to pre decide. yeses and
(25:35):
noes. Yeah. Enter, Enter. Have alist of knows.
Andy Withrow (25:39):
Yeah. Yeah, that's good. I like it. I mean, in my
program, I'm looking up theGreek which isn't, you know, Oh,
yeah. And what did you say? Goon? I don't have internet right
now. We're in a new studio.
Yeah, I haven't figured I'm surethey've got
Vanessa Caruso (25:53):
a they do Wi Fi here. But I think I got Wi Fi.
So I could look it up. Look itup.
Andy Withrow (26:00):
The Yeah, the Greek word is the glasses get
ready, Olden readiness. But thisjust what you're saying makes me
think of like, there is a wayculturally, a lot of us prepare
for Christmas. It's canceledaround a lot of consumerism,
that sort of thing. Or it getscomplicated by that. But it
(26:22):
makes you wonder, is there adifferent way of preparing? That
maybe cuts back on some that aretransformed some of that stuff
into a different sort ofanticipation? Yeah. And
listening. Yeah. And preparingourselves like so if we took the
the metaphor that John's usingthis, quoting from Isaiah here
of every, you know, this massiveconstruction project to make a
(26:45):
highway for God and hisentourage and maybe all his
people to come? Is that pointingto something in our own
individual and collective heartsand minds and practice of is
there a way to transformradically transform ourselves
internally, to get ready, and toprepare for this advent of this?
(27:07):
This visitation?
Vanessa Caruso (27:08):
Yeah. Do you know what I'm thinking of now
is, you know, the whole mood ofJohn the Baptist is like this
urgency, shouting, calling for abaptism of repentance. I think
one of the reasons why sometimesChristmas can fall flat for me,
(27:30):
is because I'm not in touch withmy need for Christ, because of
my false comfort, and privilege,and other things. Like I'm just
generally pretty self sufficientuntil something like a pandemic,
when I do wake up, a lot of uswoke up to Okay, who are we?
(27:54):
What are we here for? what'simportant and what's not. And
yet, we can just slip right, Ican slip right back into like,
Oh, pretty good for us. Prettygood for me and my tribe. So
business as usual. So to getready for Advent, and for
Christmas to kind of the thoughtof it kind of landing. What
(28:15):
would it look like to not likeinstigate a crisis, the range of
actors is that's one way to go.
Yeah, not to be reckless orsomething like that. But to get
a little bit more in touch withmy longings and what I'm waiting
for. Like, one idea would be to,you know, make a list of things.
(28:37):
I'm waiting for things like, youknow, I'm waiting for there to
be a time when children won't beneglected or abused. I mean,
that's like a big one. Orpersonally, I'm waiting to not
be kind of addicted to whatpeople think about me and to
(29:01):
people pleasing or somethinglike that. Like, what would it
look like to to name and kind ofcultivate as my own? Need? Yeah.
Need for God. Yeah. fragilitygoing into Advent, instead of
(29:22):
kind of just going off thecoattails of sentimental, warm
feelings. Good memories. Yeah.
So that's what that's one idea.
Andy Withrow (29:35):
Yeah. I like that.
So the tangible thing is makinga list that connects that just
as awareness of some of yourlongings and desires around,
anticipating what would bebetter than what we're
experiencing currently in thislife. Yeah. And when you said
about creating crises foryourself, didn't make me think
of the disciplines a little bit.
(29:55):
Yes, you can't do that's it iswell, the The the disciplines of
abstinence are sort of goingwithout things that you that are
comforts then that sort ofdistract you or maybe dull some
of your senses and some of yourlongings that that elicit like
that can maybe tap into yourselfagain. So Advent and lent are
(30:19):
both seasons where, wherethere's sort of an encouragement
of extra of those kinds ofpractices of disciplines, not
just the abstinence ones, butalso the disciplines of
engagement, where you can kindof reorder some of that, and be
a bit more in tune with, withlongings and desires, and
ideally for the purpose of like,what would God be speaking? What
(30:40):
is God speaking to me now? Yeah,in light of the situation? Yeah.
You mentioned the addiction,being addicted to what other
people think of you, which Ithink is a pretty common
addiction. Yeah. Right. That's,it's fair to say that that's one
that that's pretty widespread.
Vanessa Caruso (31:02):
I would think so. Yeah. Like a lack of
Andy Withrow (31:05):
industries around.
Yeah. posting things and whatother people think about it?
Yeah. And what would be Have youthought of or engaged in the
disciplines around? Okay, how doI sort of put a limit on ways
where I am getting that feedbackthat I like, or that I crave so
(31:26):
much?
Vanessa Caruso (31:31):
I haven't thought of, I don't, nothing
comes to mind, like real currentand relevant. I know that. I'm
gonna regret saying this, thatthrough my husband, someone he
was at, you know, a neighbor'shouse, and the neighbor's wife
said something about me havingsuch great style. And like,
(31:54):
asked him about that, like, whatdoes she do? Where does she
shop? How does and I just whenhe told me that, I was like, Why
did you tell me that becausenow, I'm just gonna do have
such. I'm just gonna, like,think about it every time I see
her. And it's gonna have to bework for me to like, stuff like
that compliments like that arenot good for me. Because they
(32:17):
make me more self conscious. AndI want to try to like live up,
instead of not ever knowing. Seewhy I'm gonna regret saying
that. It just feels stupid andembarrassing. But there's,
there's something there. I feellike I remember you talking
about humility. I feel likehumility is at the core of this,
like the virtue of humility, notbeing thinking lowly of
(32:40):
yourself, but thinking less ofyourself.
Andy Withrow (32:41):
We've talked about the ministry of insults before.
Yeah, I mean, that seems thatthat would connect to some
degree definitely with this.
Yeah. Do we, we've talked aboutthis on this podcast, and I
probably,
Vanessa Caruso (32:52):
yeah, those are good. For me. It's the opposite
of compliments. Like there's,there's a ministry that comes
from having conflict with peopleare not living up to people's
expectations. Or even, you know,ultimately, like when I if I
make a mistake and hurt somebodyelse, that process really helps
detached me from a false senseof identity. And frees me up to
(33:18):
kind of live a bit more into mytrue identity in Christ. That's
good one.
Andy Withrow (33:25):
Good one. Like the one that stands out, as maybe
obvious to me is, is what we didwhat we did last year, we talked
with Naomi about minimalism,which is very broad thing, but
even an aspect of the socialmedia aspect of that, because I
know, for a lot of us that thatcan be a feeder of you know,
(33:46):
yeah, I know, it's popular tosay how bad social media is, but
it's great for a lot of things.
But I mean, this can be a thingthat that maybe feed some of
that addiction for some of us isdefinitely I got to post this I
gotta see how it's how it'sdoing and that sort of thing.
Yeah, it could be one aspect.
Vanessa Caruso (34:06):
You know, I've done on my phone since some that
Convo My phone's on black andwhite. Do you know this is a
thing? Oh, no. Yeah, you have tolike follow this little thing.
But it tells you how to get allthe color off of your phone. And
it's like, so you can't picturelike it's there's no point. If
you can barely read my own text.
Andy Withrow (34:27):
That's interesting. So it keeps your
real life is in color and thephone life is in black and white
to remind you that yeah, there'sa degree of artificiality about
this.
Vanessa Caruso (34:35):
I didn't even think of that, but it works.
It's pretty Yeah, it helps.
Yeah, technology is a big one.
And there's all those processaddictions like I always thought
of addictions as like, oh, Idrink too much wine or I go
shopping without enoughdiscernment or something like
(34:55):
that. But the idea of processaddictions is are those things
that we do compulsively just toavoid kind of facing ourselves
or our pain or our lives, likethe word of God that might be in
our lives. And they, they can bejust being busy, or watching a
(35:15):
show every night or somethinglike that, like a little ritual,
the rituals we go through. Yeah,that just keep us tied up. Yeah.
Andy Withrow (35:23):
Yeah. Yep. And, as always, a lot of us carry a lot
of guilt around this becauseit's like, I know I shouldn't be
doing X y&z I know I should bedoing ABC in. So we're always
trying to be mindful of notplacing these huge burdens on
(35:47):
ourselves and each other, butreminding ourselves that we
can't just add time, we have totransform our time. And to take
courage in small steps, like I'mgoing to do one thing, yeah, to
change my the rhythm of my weekor my day, and implement that
and, and reminds me of anotherparable that God makes big
(36:09):
things out of the small mustardseeds. So just saying, Okay,
what if I just do this onelittle thing, one little
tangible thing that's gonna thatis going to help prepare the way
of the Lord in my life or in myin my world and see what God
does with it. Those aresometimes the really can be
(36:32):
really encouraging spaces ofWoW, God did a lot with that.
Yeah, thing made me think ofthis passage made me think of
even just our family orindividual preparation when we
have guests or visitors likewhat do we do? In our house? In
our homes? Yeah, we put out thenice tablecloth, or in my case,
(36:52):
we might put out a tablecloth.
Some people have special fancyplates for for guests. And then
of course, the more special orrare the guests maybe or fancy.
Yeah, you do a bit more.
Vanessa Caruso (37:06):
Yeah, clean vacuum candles.
Andy Withrow (37:09):
It's true. Yeah,
Vanessa Caruso (37:10):
that's like one of the best parts about hosting
is the cleaning that you do.
Andy Withrow (37:14):
We're gonna get our house clean. Finally. Yeah,
someone's coming over. But justas a metaphor for trying to
think about because I think Ihad a good conversation with a
friend of mine this week aboutour Greek conceptions of God can
sometimes sell short circuit,the relationship because we
think of like, omnipresent, he'severywhere he wants omniscient.
He knows everything before Ipray, why would I pray? He's
(37:34):
omnipotent. So like, he's gonnado what he want, you know? And,
and I think sometimes those canget in the way of an actual
relationship and to rememberthat God limits himself on
purpose, I think for the, forrelationships, so we can have
some agency and he desires tohear from us. And so something
that I just think about myprayer life this last week, and
(37:56):
how, why is it hard to pray? AndI think part of is sometimes I'm
just like, how do you approach agod?
Vanessa Caruso (38:05):
Okay to question the Creator.
Andy Withrow (38:07):
It's not like just talking with Vanessa or talking
to Josh, we're talking with mywife. It's, it's a different
category. And I don't alwaysknow how to approach it. And I
think what I was practicing thisweek was what I may just
sensing, maybe God nudging me inthis direction is, why don't you
talk to me? Like, I don'talready know what's going on
inside you like that? Just foryour own benefit in practice?
(38:28):
Just assume, I don't know,unless you want to disclose it
to me. That helped me Yeah,personally, like, just like,
okay, they just gave me afreedom to, to, to pray in that
were to have a conversation withGod in that way. And so that was
helpful.
Vanessa Caruso (38:45):
Love that Andy.
Andy Withrow (38:50):
Just as one as one, one example, maybe. But I
think that these images of orthese parables or metaphors of
construction preparation, theygive us a sense, when we
actually prepare for someonewho's physically coming can give
us an image of well, how wouldwe prepare for, for God's
(39:12):
visitation for God's presence?
And if we don't overthink it toomuch, in terms of God is all
knowing he's always always here.
Well, let's enter it becausewe're human. We need some sort
of tangible sense of somethinghappening in an event we're kind
of creatures of time and space,maybe in a way that God isn't.
(39:32):
So we're going to prepare in ahuman way for the for the visit
of God and so what are the whatare the some of those tangible
things in your life? Making alist? Yeah, very Christmassy.
Make a list. I wish list a wishlist that not dire list,
Vanessa Caruso (39:48):
a long long list
Andy Withrow (39:50):
or carve out the 15 minutes if the social media
thing is the thing that's onyour target. Just take 15
minutes of it and trends form itinto a short paragraph. Yeah,
from some of the gospel storiesaround Advent or Christmas, and
listen and pray. Yeah, or have areframe of your prayer life that
(40:18):
says, God, I'm gonna, I know youknow everything. But just for
the sake of our relationship,I'm going to assume you don't
know something unless I tellyou, and that's going to help me
be a bit more vocal. And maybelisten for, for what you might
specifically, because it'simportant. It's not unimportant,
what occurs to me to share withother people are with God, as
(40:41):
opposed to what he alreadyknows. And so well, why, why
would I choose that to share?
And maybe God wants to speak tome about those kinds of things.
Vanessa Caruso (40:49):
And he those are so good. I feel like I probably
mentioned this last year, but wehave friends who give up
electricity for Advent, which isso up electricity for adults,
yes, in the home. And that feelslike one of those things where
most people are like, Oh, giveme a break. You never heard of
Andy Withrow (41:10):
that. It's cool is? Well, it's it's like, it's
not like it's summer where it'sgonna be laid out from like, no.
Vanessa Caruso (41:19):
So they have like,
Andy Withrow (41:21):
9pm.
Vanessa Caruso (41:22):
Yeah, they have 200 candles. I mean, the first
year, they actually, you know,used a cooler on the porch for
their freezer. And then lastyear, I think they kept all
their amenities. So what itmeans is no lights or screens
when the sun goes down, orwhatever. Are you opening the
(41:44):
fridge door? Right, right. Buttheir house is just filled with
candles everywhere. And it'sradical and inconvenient. And
really kind of mystical andcool. Like, kids. The kids love
it. Yeah. And it's in ourhousehold. So our kid loves to
(42:04):
go upstairs during that time.
Yeah. So stuff like that doeshelp my imagination, just to
know that it's actually possibleto try something out. If you're
not doing it with thismotivation. Like, yeah, like,
I'm going to be so amazing. Andor, I'm going to be so hardcore.
And so God's gonna bless mebecause of it, whatever, all
(42:26):
those confusing things that comeinto it. But just, I also want
to think of, I want to be opento being inspired to try
something that's a little bitoutside of the normal. Yeah, as
well as the small, the smallstuff that is really bite size.
Because the the whole axe at theroot of the tree part that I
(42:46):
said, I liked, I just love thatimage of, you know, somebody
with an axe in their hands. Andthey do that kind of like aiming
thing, like one or two. And itbut it's before the big swing.
But that moment doesn't feelsuper grim to me, it feels
urgent and like, I want to beawake. And I don't want to I
(43:10):
want to be willing to be alittle bit weird. If it means
that I'm, you know, attemptingto receive notice and respond to
what, that the seeds that arebeing thrown. On my corner in my
house. Yeah, in my life.
Andy Withrow (43:34):
Yeah. Yeah, that's a really good image. It reminds
us that everything we're talkingabout isn't, and you mentioned
this earlier, it's not like thisgrasping for acceptance, or, or
God's love, because the parableis that it's given. Usually,
(43:57):
it's given liberally. It'sscattered everywhere. The
question isn't whether God lovesand has grace, the question is,
question of our agency, are wegoing are we going to put
ourselves in a position toreceive that kind of soil? Are
we are we cultivating? And Ithink that's true here because
(44:17):
God's word is returned andpardon, it's repent, which is
just a return to me just comeback change your course. And,
and the word of pardon is thatJohn, the word of the Lord did
John issues in a baptism ofrepentance for the forgiveness
of sins for this pardon for thisrestoration, like, that's God's
(44:38):
heart, in this passage and inthe Gospel, and all through the
scriptures is, I am for you. AndI want you to return to me. And
so everything we're talkingabout is putting ourselves in a
position to hear that to knowthat into into come back into
this this relationship in thisconnection. And how do we
(45:00):
prepare ourselves and get ready.
So that we can we can hear it,in know, his, his presence and
is coming.
Vanessa Caruso (45:10):
You know what it reminds me of your enoughness
stuff. Last time we talked, thatthere's a part of this that like
the forgiveness of sins and thebaptism of repentance, that
instead of being this reallydepressing situation, it's
actually a freeing one, where wecan enter Advent with what if we
(45:35):
assumed or trusted that we areenough, while also taking small
steps to better fertilize oursoil? You
Andy Withrow (45:47):
receive? Yeah, the the reality is, you're not going
to you're not going to beenough. And yourself. And it's
don't even try. But the gift isthat, that in Christ God has
made us God has now accepted usand meet us enough. So you are
free to to fail and stumble andbe really bad at listening to
(46:10):
God and and figuring out how tobe in His presence. But the
question is the fundamentalorientation that God is his
head, he can do a lot with justa little bit of our Okay, God, I
need help or just do a littlebit of life interruption. Learn
to look for him coming outsideof our expectations or
(46:32):
structures or business as usual.
See, whereas we're gonnainterrupt life a little bit,
and, and look for and listen towhat God might be doing. Seems
like the God of the Bible is theone who does a lot with even
just a little bit of that.
Vanessa Caruso (46:48):
Yes. And the baptism bit, when I was reading
about this passage, I read thatwhat John kind of initiated was
a very different form of baptismthan then was normal. From what
I understand, it was kind of arite of purity, where you'd like
(47:09):
sprinkle yourself with like somewater. So it was like an
individual act. And you could doit a bunch to get better and
better. And so being in theriver and kind of administering
a submersion, yeah, that's whatI'm assuming it was, like a
submersion type. meant to melike, this involves each other,
(47:32):
like, it's kind of a moreintimate way of being freed. And
it made me think that doingadventure with others is really
helpful. Whether it is a formalgroup, like a neighborhood
table, or a small group of somesort, or if it is your family,
or if it's your family withanother family, or if it's just
(47:54):
like, a friend that you feellike you can be honest with and
kind of admit what you're, whatyou're working with. Yeah, and
involve them. Even though I'mpretty self sufficient. I don't
usually feel a need to like,involve other people very much.
But part of the discipline, Ifeel like have the baptism of
repentance in the river issaying, like, we're going to
(48:18):
need each other something aboutthe Jesus way. Yeah, there's,
there's an interdependence. Thatis not totally my nature. And,
and the baptism of repentanceis, is getting into that a
little bit more. Yeah.
Andy Withrow (48:32):
Yeah. It's pretty good.
Vanessa Caruso (48:35):
How were how are we?
Andy Withrow (48:36):
We're pretty good.
Okay. I mean, I yeah, this mightbe a good, good spot to. To
break.
Vanessa Caruso (48:44):
I found the quote by Eugene just even though
we've talked about it, but hereit is. The assumption of
spirituality is that always Godis doing something before I know
it. So the task is not to getGod to do something I think
needs to be done, but to becomeaware of what God is doing, so
that I can respond to it andparticipate and take delight in
(49:06):
it.
Andy Withrow (49:09):
Right, yeah, that's great quote, and
yet, maybe before figuring outwhat is next there's probably
some music
Welcome to the bear with me podcast on table
radio, where we aim to integratebelief and practice in the
Christianlife. It's working great. Are we
on? Yeah, we're on. Hi, Vanessa.
Hi, Andy. Welcome back. Thankyou. Or are you can welcome you
(00:25):
back.
Vanessa Caruso (00:25):
Welcome back.
Andy. Thanks. It's great to seeyou. It's good to be thanks for
being here.
Andy Withrow (00:28):
Yeah. Thank you.
It's good to have you as aguest. Every show, or it's good
to be your guest every show,however, both however we think
about it. This my show andyou're my guest, or is this your
show? And I'm your guest.
Vanessa Caruso (00:39):
It feels a little bit more like yours. No.
Andy Withrow (00:42):
Your name comes first in the credits, does it?
Yeah. Wow. No, that's because ofalphabetized by last name.
Caruso Withrow. She was usuallymy experience growing up in
school every year. Right. Lastone. Right, Withrow. Except for
when Dale Zodrow was in a cycle.
Shout oout to Dale! Dale, ifyou're listening - Miss you.
(01:12):
Where do we go from there?
That's it. That's all okay.
Thanks, everyone, for tuning inthis week. We're glad that you
could be with us. And we'll seeyou next time. Just kidding.
We're gonna We're just not withit. That's it. We're jumping
into another Advent Text thisWeek. So we're getting ready for
Advent and I've admin or we'rein Advent. I don't know we're
(01:33):
we're recording this in the endof October and Evans a month
away for us. But who knows whenthis? Yeah, yeah, we'll talk to
our producers and the people whohelp run our podcast. Yeah,
people we are working on thisshow. Right downers. Yeah. And
they'll get it out when they getit out. But they they think
(01:54):
those they go through the focusgroups and yeah, do all the hard
work with that kind of stuff. Solet's just leave that up to
them. We're just here for them.
We're here for the contentbasically. Alright, enough of
that. Let's get into Lukechapter three we had the first
six verses but Vanessa couldn'tstop reading so she may pull in
(02:16):
extra verses here she threatenedto before we hit record it was
through eight see no wonderwell, maybe eight and. And.
Noes. Great. Do you want to readit or do you want me to?
Vanessa Caruso (02:32):
You can go ahead.
Andy Withrow (02:33):
Should I go ahead?
Yeah. Okay. This is Luke chapterthree, one through six. Listen
to this, this is good. In the15th year of the reign of
Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilatebeing governor of over Judea,
and Herod being Tetrarch ofGalilee, and his brother Philip
Tetrarch, of the region ofEtruria. And tracking itis, and
(02:54):
Licinius Tetrarch of Aibileen. Ilooked it up. It's not Texas,
it's different parts of theMiddle East. During the high
priesthood of Annas andCaiaphas, the word of God came
to John, the son of Zechariah,in the wilderness, and he went
into all the region around theJordan proclaiming a baptism of
(03:17):
repentance, for the forgivenessof sins, as it is written in the
book of the words of Isaiah, theprophet, the voice of one crying
in the wilderness, Prepare theway of the Lord, make his path
straight. Every valley shall befilled in every mountain in Hill
shall be made low, and thecrooked shall become straight,
and the rough places shallbecome level ways and all flesh
(03:38):
shall see the salvation of Godwill do to vote on this verses
here. Thank you. He said,therefore, to the crowds that
came out to be baptized by him,You brood of vipers gets Yeah,
it's dark it does click Whowarned you to flee from the
wrath to come bear fruits inkeeping with repentance? Do not
say to yourselves we haveAbraham as our father for I tell
(03:58):
you God is able from thesestones to raise up children for
Abraham even now the axe is laidto the root of the trees every
tree therefore that does notbear good fruit is cut down and
thrown into the fire
Vanessa Caruso (04:14):
Yes, thank you for adding that.
Andy Withrow (04:17):
Alright, so I so when I first wrote to you
Vanessa about me because we'redoing a different texts for
today, and I was getting intothe some of the Advent prep for
my for my own preaching orteaching, and this one just
stuck out to me as somethingmaybe really interesting and fun
to do. And one of the thingsthat stuck out to me was this,
(04:39):
these opening lines of, of allthese rulers and religious
leaders, right, Tiberius Caesar,the armistice Yeah, he's who's
the emperor of the of the wholeknown world at the time. And
then you have Pontius Pilate wasgovernor of Judea, which is
where Jerusalem is in thesouthern part of it. his real
(05:00):
heritage project of Galilee,kind of the northern part. And
his brother Philip, you know,and then Licinius. And then the
high priesthood of Annas andCaiaphas, they were in charge
of, of the religious center ofIsrael. And so just how Luke one
is concerned for historicity,like, when did this happen?
(05:24):
essentially giving you the yearthe date, this is what's going
on. But also just thisjuxtaposition you have. Where
would you expect God's word tocome? Yeah. During during all of
this, like, here's the peoplewho are in charge. Here's the
political and religious leadersof the day.
Vanessa Caruso (05:47):
Yeah, with these fancy names. Yeah. And titles
and titles. And then it comes toJohn. Yeah. out in the boonies.
Andy Withrow (05:57):
Yeah. Who doesn't?
Isn't doesn't have a title here.
John, just the son of Zechariah.
We know from earlier and Lukeserved in the temple, he's part
of the priesthood or at leastthe Levitical tradition. I think
a priest is a priest because hewent in to serve inside the Holy
of Holies. That's when he gotthe he interacted with the angel
right about John's birth.
Vanessa Caruso (06:23):
Right. Right.
That's the Zachariah. Yeah. Andhe was silenced. Or, yeah,
Andy Withrow (06:29):
he had some sort of thing where he, you know, you
have a vision of the angel inthe temple, and probably the
first thing to say, isn't how Iknow it's going to be true.
Right of it. And it Gabriel getsa little bit. I'm, I stay in the
presence a little. Okay, here'sa sign for you. You're not gonna
be able to speak. Right? Likedon't? Don't take off angels.
(06:53):
Yeah, I guess. Yeah, one of thetakeaways definitely. But
anyway, we're here. And here'sall these, here's all the big
picture stuff that's happening.
And this is where God decides tosend his word. So I think that
was that was pretty fascinating.
Yeah, for me.
Vanessa Caruso (07:12):
So what did it evoke for you, just realizing
that again?
Andy Withrow (07:17):
Well, I mean, being part of Generation X, I'm
very, you know, sort of the antiestablishment, kind of, in me.
But I think I think there's,it's not hard for people to
identify with, or to resonatewith some of this idea of, of
truth coming to sort of thelowly or more the humble, like,
(07:39):
that's built into so much of ourstories, or movies and shows and
books and everything else. Yeah.
is sort of that theme of the thehumble, receives the truth, or
sees what other people don'tsee. Yeah. And at least in this
story, that's, that seems to bepart of it. Yeah. You know, in
(08:02):
other parts of the Bible, Jesus,or God does speak to priests
does speak with from withinstructures. And so it really,
when I say, I wrote down thatGod sends His word without
respect for title or position,yeah, get really means that
like, it's not anti title orposition. It's like, No, I'
(08:23):
looking for a specific thinwithin somebody to receive fro
me. And that may come to thhigh priests in a given era, bu
it may not. And in this casemaybe it reveals something abou
the Israel of John's and Jesus'day, that God's word didn't com
from within those structuresbut comes out not just t
somebody who doesn't have thtitle or position but als
(08:46):
geographically in thwilderness, like not i
Jerusalem, not where the templis not in the centers o
commerce, or politics oreligion or whatever. Yeah. S
what might that say about thnation at that time? And wher
would we expect God's word tcome? In our tim
Vanessa Caruso (09:13):
now? It's good question.
Andy Withrow (09:17):
Thanks. What's your answer?
Vanessa Caruso (09:20):
I don't know.
It's hard to really wrap my mindaround this because being a
Christian, you know, we are partof the inside group of religious
people in our faith tradition,you know, like we're inside the
church. And we're like, thedominant party in that way. And
(09:44):
so to read this and see that,that God came outside that it's
confusing for me to to figureout am I like Mary and John or
am I like, with my affluence andmy privilege and everything? And
I'm more like, the religiousleader types? Yeah. Who have
(10:08):
like a fairly easy life kind ofthing. Sometimes I feel like
marry, you know? Yeah. Andsometimes I've I think I might
be more I might be diluted
Andy Withrow (10:21):
Caiaphas Yeah,
Vanessa Caruso (10:22):
yeah. Yeah. Do you do you get confused about
that? Like, I guess maybe that'spart of the problem of trying to
find yourself in the story.
Andy Withrow (10:32):
Yeah, well, I think at the very least, this
has to come as a warning. Right,be careful, especially coming
from within a religiousinstitution that that doesn't
give that does not baptize youinto infallibility and seeing
all things. Clearly. Yeah.
Right. So but there's, I mean,throughout church history shows
(10:53):
the impulse of reformationright. Especially since the
Reformation, but even beforethat, like within the within the
church, and, and even in the OldTestament, like a lot of the
prophets are, that is the thinglike that is the theme is like
there's something wrong with theinstitution with the with the
thing itself, and it's theprovince calling that back, or
(11:14):
pronouncing like it's too late,your comes, here comes comes the
end the judgment, then x is lateat the root of the tree, see you
too. So I think that helps. Ifyou are coming from within an
institution, it helps keep youvery low. Yeah, humble.
(11:35):
Hopefully, yeah. To be open tooutside voices, would be a
value. Yeah. Knowing that Goddoes not not reading your blank,
check the truth here. So how doI have what are the practices
that we can be involved in tomake sure that we're listening
(11:56):
to John's in the wilderness, orwe're a part of that we went in
Not, not finding ourselvesopposing God in His Word. seems
important.
Vanessa Caruso (12:09):
I love that, that that's where he took it is
to hear it as a warning. Atleast partly. And to you know,
it makes me think of kind of thefalse comfort that comes up in
that second part about beingchildren of Abraham, like, just
kind of coasting on that. Andthere is there is a comfort that
(12:31):
can come from being part of agroup and having some security.
And so practices that, that keepus a little bit uncomfortable,
and vigilant and open that doesfeel relevant. Yeah. It reminds
me to this week in thelectionary was Jesus saying, you
know, that part about the, it'slike a wedding banquet kind of
(12:56):
parable or something. And itsays, people will knock and want
to be led in? And they'll say,but we ate and drank with you,
and you taught in our cities,and the bridegroom says, but I
didn't know you let go away fromme. So it felt like a similar
kind of eerie, like, Oh, I'm,I'm so I eat and drink. I do
(13:18):
communion with other disciples.
And I listened to Jesus'steachings regularly. So it's
possible to do those things intostill not be known. by Christ.
It sounds like it's theimplication. Yeah. So it feels
like a similar kind of warning,like, Oh, yeah. But the other
part is the theme in thispassage, the valleys will be
(13:44):
raised up, and the hills broughtlow. I feel like we're talking
about one aspect of what itmeans to be brought low, to be
humbled to be open. The otherpiece is that there's parts of
us and our society and ourchurch that might need to be
dignified. And have some, alsosome take some encouragement
(14:05):
from this. And some confidencethat feels like the raising up
but
Andy Withrow (14:11):
yeah, yeah, well, the I mean, the church in North
America isn't what it once was.
The church in Canada isn't whatit once was. Right? Yeah. So
there is there is the sensewhere you can feel very much if
you're if you are part of thechurch that does feel a bit like
the wasteland, like thewilderness a bit. There's like a
(14:36):
remnant are much more elite,especially here on the West
Coast are much more of theminority. If you go to church on
a Sunday, yeah. And themajority. Yeah. And so that that
story has changed quite a bit inthe last several decades. Yeah.
And so I think it's passageslike this, that in even Jesus
birth, you know that Just thesekind of dark corners not
(15:01):
televised, right, this isn't thecenter stage. And so there is
actually some comfort and likeGod likes to work in these
moments when you if you'releading a church or a small
group or something, and it justfeels like oh, there's not a lot
of energy here, it's kind ofquiet, we have some faithful
people, it's hard. It's hard.
(15:25):
But then to remember that thisis where God likes to work,
right is because he's often not,he's often doing the stuff not
on center stage, on purpose, orby design, and sort of take
some, some encouragement fromthat. Yeah. And that some of the
humility that's built into someof that. Feeling a bit on the
(15:48):
outside or on the outskirts,actually helps make you a better
reader or a better listener, asin, as in John's case here. So
So I think that's pretty neat.
And even just the just the idea,cuz the first thing we're done
was God sends His Word. Andthat's true, not just in this
passage, but all over all overthe Bible, from Genesis to
Revelation. And I think that'ssomething that idea by itself is
(16:10):
something that's pretty amazing.
That that is hard to believe, ormight be hard for us to, to
really believe because youreally think about that. Just
the significance that God wouldchoose to communicate and want a
relationship based oncommunication. Yeah. That seems
(16:32):
pretty important. Yeah. It's notlike they thought about that
before. Yeah. With your withyour line of work. Yeah, I would
guess,
Vanessa Caruso (16:39):
a little bit.
Yeah, the assumption I'm noEugene Peterson has like such a
great quote about this, that Idon't remember by heart. But you
know, it's kind of like achanging worldview from thinking
that we need to do stuff inorder to get God to show up, or
intervene or something. Changingthat mindset to the assumption
(17:02):
that God is always working, andspeaking, and communicating and
speaking. And the invitation tous is to wake up and hear and
see what God is already doing.
That's a pretty big shift. AndGod sending God's Word through
(17:26):
from through many messengers.
Yeah, John's just in the line ofthis
Andy Withrow (17:30):
makes me wonder if God wasn't also sending a sword
to Annas and Caiaphas. The highpriests
Vanessa Caruso (17:35):
interesting. But
Andy Withrow (17:38):
well, yeah, or this wasn't heard. Yeah. wasn't
recognized as I like that.
Because it reminds me of the andwe might do a little sneak
preview. But we Venice, I mightexplore some of the parables in
Matthew's Gospel. Yeah. And inone of them, and the, the kind
of most popular one is theparable of the sower and the
seed. The seed is God's word.
(18:00):
And where is it sown?
Vanessa Caruso (18:01):
Everywhere,
Andy Withrow (18:02):
literally everywhere. It's just like, it's
not like some seed was sownhere, but not here. Like the
whole point of the prayer waslike, one of the points is
everywhere. question isn'twhether the word is coming. It's
a question of if it's received,how is it received or not
received? Cool. And so if youwant to kind of apply that to
(18:24):
Caesar, Pilate, the governor,the tetrarchy, in this area, the
high priests. But here's here'sJohn receiving it, doing
something with it. And here it'shere's the crop of all the fruit
because everyone's going out nowto John in the wilderness.
Everyone from Jerusalem andJudea, everyone from all the
regions around the Jordan arecoming out in the middle of
(18:46):
nowhere just to hear the sky.
Which begs the question, becauseI think a lot of us could read
about John the Baptist and justthink, crazy person. Yep,
definitely. Eccentric weird. Whywould we, why would anyone trust
How do we know? Definitely.
(19:06):
Because you've got we've gotplenty of those types around.
And so is it just like, Oh,we're not listening? Are they
legit? But we also know thattheir stories of not healthy.
Yeah, got the Jim Jones back inthe day drinking the Kool Aid.
Right. So it's like, you can'tjust without discretion or
(19:28):
discernment, just listen orfollow anybody who says hey, the
saith the Lord.
Vanessa Caruso (19:34):
Yeah. Yeah, like the Mars Hill podcast is kind of
about a leader who had such astrong personality and
persuasive you know, kind ofJohn the Baptist he Yeah. So
it's a great example. I love theidea of the word being sent,
(19:55):
like seed thrown all over theplace and But it landing in
don't Yeah. Well, that gets back
Andy Withrow (20:03):
to what you were talking about earlier about kind
of your your focus and your alot of your work is like, well,
let's assume God is speaking.
Because it just seems like inthe Bible that's the assumption
is he's a relational God. Yeahand personal God desires
connection Yeah. In and so ifthat's true then what are the
obstacles to receiving orhearing God's word
Vanessa Caruso (20:27):
which, for me goes back to that hills and
valleys like that is to me likea construction metaphor that
says, What is getting in the wayof accessing and responding to?
Yeah, God in your life? Yeah,make it level, like smooth out
(20:47):
the rough places like, figureout what's keeping or hindering
you not how to get it's adifferent posture to think of
like, Yeah, I'm going to climbup this ladder of stuff to do,
right. And I'm going to reachthe top, but I'm going to get
something it's kind of likeassuming that. Yeah. Okay, I'm
(21:09):
getting a little confused bymyself. Can I move to No, we're
not there yet.
Andy Withrow (21:13):
Move to why? Well, I
Vanessa Caruso (21:14):
was just thinking we're already
Andy Withrow (21:15):
jumping. Okay, so just go for it. Okay.
Vanessa Caruso (21:19):
So when I read about this passage, I read that,
you know, with John shoutingprepare a way for the Lord, that
it was typical. You'd probablyalready know this for kings
leader types to have a heraldsthat went before them kind of
announcing the arrival of thisentourage. But the only people
in that time who would actuallyneed a paved road are people
(21:40):
with entourages. Yeah.
Andy Withrow (21:42):
So emperor was coming. Yeah, it was a real
thing that they would Oh, wouldyour city prepare if the emperor
was coming? Well, look at theOlympics. How would Victoria
prepare if the Queen the Queenwas coming like that? You didn't
go to
Vanessa Caruso (21:56):
I met the Queen, the prince and princess at the
crib center. You did? Yeah. Justtoday? No. When we first moved
here, and Leah was in preschoolthere. They came. Yeah. Yeah.
Nice. He was amazing.
Andy Withrow (22:09):
That was a big deal.
Vanessa Caruso (22:10):
It was a big deal. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm
thinking of the Yeah, theOlympics in Vancouver. Huge
deal. Construction wise. Oh,yeah. I mean, yeah. Okay, we're
getting off topic. Butbasically, it was a real thing
that a road would have to bepaid. Yeah. And this prepare the
way of the Lord reminds me ofother places. Maybe it's John
(22:31):
that says that talks about thehighway for our God. Yeah, like
creating an accessible way forpeople to write access, and
connect.
Andy Withrow (22:43):
Yeah, and it and after brush up on my prophets,
but from what I remember, partof that highway motif or
metaphor was also Israel comingback out of exile highway back
to their land nice, whichthey're in Now in this passage,
but there's still this theme ofexile for this people. They're
there in their land, but it'snot their land belongs to
(23:04):
Tiberius Caesar. Right. So it'stheir, their it's a colonial
colonialism in their in theirmoment. Yeah. And, and so there
is some sadness about that. Andgrief, and feeling at all is not
well, with God's people. Andthere isn't there is some
tension and divide between Godand His people, which plays into
(23:25):
a lot of John's language here.
Right? Of he's coming. There'sthis highway that's needs to be
or is being constructed. Andmaybe it is tied to this idea of
also you are going to be part ofthat highway, because you're
going to come out of its time tocome out of exile. Yeah, so that
language of repentance is, isjust means change. Like, get
with the program. This ishappening. Get ready. It's
(23:48):
coming. But we brought thatforward to our moment. Yeah. And
think of what is it that wherewhere is our estrangement with
God, which is personal, newindividual to individual. But
also, what does it mean toprepare?
Vanessa Caruso (24:10):
Yeah.
Andy Withrow (24:11):
Now that sort of, we're talking about Advent.
Vanessa Caruso (24:13):
Love it. I meant to look up prepare, but I forgot
to like what the word means. Butdoesn't it sound like it means
pre cut down? Prepare,
Andy Withrow (24:21):
prepare, prepare.
It's interesting. I
Vanessa Caruso (24:22):
never thought about that. I feel like it means
that in a way, I just mean, kindof the more literal, yeah. Are
you looking it up?
Andy Withrow (24:28):
Well, maybe just so I was
Vanessa Caruso (24:31):
kind of thinking of it, meaning pre cut down,
which is just so appropriate fora season of Advent. When
culturally it's like the biggestshopping consumer holiday of the
whole year, and it's typicallyexperienced in the North West,
(24:52):
at least as a really busy timeof year. Yeah, like, there's
productions there's partiesThey're shopping. So, to pre cut
down has just made me wonder.
Similarly, like we do for Lent,where we anticipate the season
that we're going to get involvedin, and we, you know, maybe
(25:15):
decide on something we're goingto fast or some way to simplify
our discipleship during thatseason. Advent feels like an
invitation to do the same thing.
Before Advent actually startsto, to pre decide. yeses and
(25:35):
noes. Yeah. Enter, Enter. Have alist of knows.
Andy Withrow (25:39):
Yeah. Yeah, that's good. I like it. I mean, in my
program, I'm looking up theGreek which isn't, you know, Oh,
yeah. And what did you say? Goon? I don't have internet right
now. We're in a new studio.
Yeah, I haven't figured I'm surethey've got
Vanessa Caruso (25:53):
a they do Wi Fi here. But I think I got Wi Fi.
So I could look it up. Look itup.
Andy Withrow (26:00):
The Yeah, the Greek word is the glasses get
ready, Olden readiness. But thisjust what you're saying makes me
think of like, there is a wayculturally, a lot of us prepare
for Christmas. It's canceledaround a lot of consumerism,
that sort of thing. Or it getscomplicated by that. But it
(26:22):
makes you wonder, is there adifferent way of preparing? That
maybe cuts back on some that aretransformed some of that stuff
into a different sort ofanticipation? Yeah. And
listening. Yeah. And preparingourselves like so if we took the
the metaphor that John's usingthis, quoting from Isaiah here
of every, you know, this massiveconstruction project to make a
(26:45):
highway for God and hisentourage and maybe all his
people to come? Is that pointingto something in our own
individual and collective heartsand minds and practice of is
there a way to transformradically transform ourselves
internally, to get ready, and toprepare for this advent of this?
(27:07):
This visitation?
Vanessa Caruso (27:08):
Yeah. Do you know what I'm thinking of now
is, you know, the whole mood ofJohn the Baptist is like this
urgency, shouting, calling for abaptism of repentance. I think
one of the reasons why sometimesChristmas can fall flat for me,
(27:30):
is because I'm not in touch withmy need for Christ, because of
my false comfort, and privilege,and other things. Like I'm just
generally pretty self sufficientuntil something like a pandemic,
when I do wake up, a lot of uswoke up to Okay, who are we?
(27:54):
What are we here for? what'simportant and what's not. And
yet, we can just slip right, Ican slip right back into like,
Oh, pretty good for us. Prettygood for me and my tribe. So
business as usual. So to getready for Advent, and for
Christmas to kind of the thoughtof it kind of landing. What
(28:15):
would it look like to not likeinstigate a crisis, the range of
actors is that's one way to go.
Yeah, not to be reckless orsomething like that. But to get
a little bit more in touch withmy longings and what I'm waiting
for. Like, one idea would be to,you know, make a list of things.
(28:37):
I'm waiting for things like, youknow, I'm waiting for there to
be a time when children won't beneglected or abused. I mean,
that's like a big one. Orpersonally, I'm waiting to not
be kind of addicted to whatpeople think about me and to
(29:01):
people pleasing or somethinglike that. Like, what would it
look like to to name and kind ofcultivate as my own? Need? Yeah.
Need for God. Yeah. fragilitygoing into Advent, instead of
(29:22):
kind of just going off thecoattails of sentimental, warm
feelings. Good memories. Yeah.
So that's what that's one idea.
Andy Withrow (29:35):
Yeah. I like that.
So the tangible thing is makinga list that connects that just
as awareness of some of yourlongings and desires around,
anticipating what would bebetter than what we're
experiencing currently in thislife. Yeah. And when you said
about creating crises foryourself, didn't make me think
of the disciplines a little bit.
(29:55):
Yes, you can't do that's it iswell, the The the disciplines of
abstinence are sort of goingwithout things that you that are
comforts then that sort ofdistract you or maybe dull some
of your senses and some of yourlongings that that elicit like
that can maybe tap into yourselfagain. So Advent and lent are
(30:19):
both seasons where, wherethere's sort of an encouragement
of extra of those kinds ofpractices of disciplines, not
just the abstinence ones, butalso the disciplines of
engagement, where you can kindof reorder some of that, and be
a bit more in tune with, withlongings and desires, and
ideally for the purpose of like,what would God be speaking? What
(30:40):
is God speaking to me now? Yeah,in light of the situation? Yeah.
You mentioned the addiction,being addicted to what other
people think of you, which Ithink is a pretty common
addiction. Yeah. Right. That's,it's fair to say that that's one
that that's pretty widespread.
Vanessa Caruso (31:02):
I would think so. Yeah. Like a lack of
Andy Withrow (31:05):
industries around.
Yeah. posting things and whatother people think about it?
Yeah. And what would be Have youthought of or engaged in the
disciplines around? Okay, how doI sort of put a limit on ways
where I am getting that feedbackthat I like, or that I crave so
(31:26):
much?
Vanessa Caruso (31:31):
I haven't thought of, I don't, nothing
comes to mind, like real currentand relevant. I know that. I'm
gonna regret saying this, thatthrough my husband, someone he
was at, you know, a neighbor'shouse, and the neighbor's wife
said something about me havingsuch great style. And like,
(31:54):
asked him about that, like, whatdoes she do? Where does she
shop? How does and I just whenhe told me that, I was like, Why
did you tell me that becausenow, I'm just gonna do have
such. I'm just gonna, like,think about it every time I see
her. And it's gonna have to bework for me to like, stuff like
that compliments like that arenot good for me. Because they
(32:17):
make me more self conscious. AndI want to try to like live up,
instead of not ever knowing. Seewhy I'm gonna regret saying
that. It just feels stupid andembarrassing. But there's,
there's something there. I feellike I remember you talking
about humility. I feel likehumility is at the core of this,
like the virtue of humility, notbeing thinking lowly of
(32:40):
yourself, but thinking less ofyourself.
Andy Withrow (32:41):
We've talked about the ministry of insults before.
Yeah, I mean, that seems thatthat would connect to some
degree definitely with this.
Yeah. Do we, we've talked aboutthis on this podcast, and I
probably,
Vanessa Caruso (32:52):
yeah, those are good. For me. It's the opposite
of compliments. Like there's,there's a ministry that comes
from having conflict with peopleare not living up to people's
expectations. Or even, you know,ultimately, like when I if I
make a mistake and hurt somebodyelse, that process really helps
detached me from a false senseof identity. And frees me up to
(33:18):
kind of live a bit more into mytrue identity in Christ. That's
good one.
Andy Withrow (33:25):
Good one. Like the one that stands out, as maybe
obvious to me is, is what we didwhat we did last year, we talked
with Naomi about minimalism,which is very broad thing, but
even an aspect of the socialmedia aspect of that, because I
know, for a lot of us that thatcan be a feeder of you know,
(33:46):
yeah, I know, it's popular tosay how bad social media is, but
it's great for a lot of things.
But I mean, this can be a thingthat that maybe feed some of
that addiction for some of us isdefinitely I got to post this I
gotta see how it's how it'sdoing and that sort of thing.
Yeah, it could be one aspect.
Vanessa Caruso (34:06):
You know, I've done on my phone since some that
Convo My phone's on black andwhite. Do you know this is a
thing? Oh, no. Yeah, you have tolike follow this little thing.
But it tells you how to get allthe color off of your phone. And
it's like, so you can't picturelike it's there's no point. If
you can barely read my own text.
Andy Withrow (34:27):
That's interesting. So it keeps your
real life is in color and thephone life is in black and white
to remind you that yeah, there'sa degree of artificiality about
this.
Vanessa Caruso (34:35):
I didn't even think of that, but it works.
It's pretty Yeah, it helps.
Yeah, technology is a big one.
And there's all those processaddictions like I always thought
of addictions as like, oh, Idrink too much wine or I go
shopping without enoughdiscernment or something like
(34:55):
that. But the idea of processaddictions is are those things
that we do compulsively just toavoid kind of facing ourselves
or our pain or our lives, likethe word of God that might be in
our lives. And they, they can bejust being busy, or watching a
(35:15):
show every night or somethinglike that, like a little ritual,
the rituals we go through. Yeah,that just keep us tied up. Yeah.
Andy Withrow (35:23):
Yeah. Yep. And, as always, a lot of us carry a lot
of guilt around this becauseit's like, I know I shouldn't be
doing X y&z I know I should bedoing ABC in. So we're always
trying to be mindful of notplacing these huge burdens on
(35:47):
ourselves and each other, butreminding ourselves that we
can't just add time, we have totransform our time. And to take
courage in small steps, like I'mgoing to do one thing, yeah, to
change my the rhythm of my weekor my day, and implement that
and, and reminds me of anotherparable that God makes big
(36:09):
things out of the small mustardseeds. So just saying, Okay,
what if I just do this onelittle thing, one little
tangible thing that's gonna thatis going to help prepare the way
of the Lord in my life or in myin my world and see what God
does with it. Those aresometimes the really can be
(36:32):
really encouraging spaces ofWoW, God did a lot with that.
Yeah, thing made me think ofthis passage made me think of
even just our family orindividual preparation when we
have guests or visitors likewhat do we do? In our house? In
our homes? Yeah, we put out thenice tablecloth, or in my case,
(36:52):
we might put out a tablecloth.
Some people have special fancyplates for for guests. And then
of course, the more special orrare the guests maybe or fancy.
Yeah, you do a bit more.
Vanessa Caruso (37:06):
Yeah, clean vacuum candles.
Andy Withrow (37:09):
It's true. Yeah,
Vanessa Caruso (37:10):
that's like one of the best parts about hosting
is the cleaning that you do.
Andy Withrow (37:14):
We're gonna get our house clean. Finally. Yeah,
someone's coming over. But justas a metaphor for trying to
think about because I think Ihad a good conversation with a
friend of mine this week aboutour Greek conceptions of God can
sometimes sell short circuit,the relationship because we
think of like, omnipresent, he'severywhere he wants omniscient.
He knows everything before Ipray, why would I pray? He's
(37:34):
omnipotent. So like, he's gonnado what he want, you know? And,
and I think sometimes those canget in the way of an actual
relationship and to rememberthat God limits himself on
purpose, I think for the, forrelationships, so we can have
some agency and he desires tohear from us. And so something
that I just think about myprayer life this last week, and
(37:56):
how, why is it hard to pray? AndI think part of is sometimes I'm
just like, how do you approach agod?
Vanessa Caruso (38:05):
Okay to question the Creator.
Andy Withrow (38:07):
It's not like just talking with Vanessa or talking
to Josh, we're talking with mywife. It's, it's a different
category. And I don't alwaysknow how to approach it. And I
think what I was practicing thisweek was what I may just
sensing, maybe God nudging me inthis direction is, why don't you
talk to me? Like, I don'talready know what's going on
inside you like that? Just foryour own benefit in practice?
(38:28):
Just assume, I don't know,unless you want to disclose it
to me. That helped me Yeah,personally, like, just like,
okay, they just gave me afreedom to, to, to pray in that
were to have a conversation withGod in that way. And so that was
helpful.
Vanessa Caruso (38:45):
Love that Andy.
Andy Withrow (38:50):
Just as one as one, one example, maybe. But I
think that these images of orthese parables or metaphors of
construction preparation, theygive us a sense, when we
actually prepare for someonewho's physically coming can give
us an image of well, how wouldwe prepare for, for God's
(39:12):
visitation for God's presence?
And if we don't overthink it toomuch, in terms of God is all
knowing he's always always here.
Well, let's enter it becausewe're human. We need some sort
of tangible sense of somethinghappening in an event we're kind
of creatures of time and space,maybe in a way that God isn't.
(39:32):
So we're going to prepare in ahuman way for the for the visit
of God and so what are the whatare the some of those tangible
things in your life? Making alist? Yeah, very Christmassy.
Make a list. I wish list a wishlist that not dire list,
Vanessa Caruso (39:48):
a long long list
Andy Withrow (39:50):
or carve out the 15 minutes if the social media
thing is the thing that's onyour target. Just take 15
minutes of it and trends form itinto a short paragraph. Yeah,
from some of the gospel storiesaround Advent or Christmas, and
listen and pray. Yeah, or have areframe of your prayer life that
(40:18):
says, God, I'm gonna, I know youknow everything. But just for
the sake of our relationship,I'm going to assume you don't
know something unless I tellyou, and that's going to help me
be a bit more vocal. And maybelisten for, for what you might
specifically, because it'simportant. It's not unimportant,
what occurs to me to share withother people are with God, as
(40:41):
opposed to what he alreadyknows. And so well, why, why
would I choose that to share?
And maybe God wants to speak tome about those kinds of things.
Vanessa Caruso (40:49):
And he those are so good. I feel like I probably
mentioned this last year, but wehave friends who give up
electricity for Advent, which isso up electricity for adults,
yes, in the home. And that feelslike one of those things where
most people are like, Oh, giveme a break. You never heard of
Andy Withrow (41:10):
that. It's cool is? Well, it's it's like, it's
not like it's summer where it'sgonna be laid out from like, no.
Vanessa Caruso (41:19):
So they have like,
Andy Withrow (41:21):
9pm.
Vanessa Caruso (41:22):
Yeah, they have 200 candles. I mean, the first
year, they actually, you know,used a cooler on the porch for
their freezer. And then lastyear, I think they kept all
their amenities. So what itmeans is no lights or screens
when the sun goes down, orwhatever. Are you opening the
(41:44):
fridge door? Right, right. Buttheir house is just filled with
candles everywhere. And it'sradical and inconvenient. And
really kind of mystical andcool. Like, kids. The kids love
it. Yeah. And it's in ourhousehold. So our kid loves to
(42:04):
go upstairs during that time.
Yeah. So stuff like that doeshelp my imagination, just to
know that it's actually possibleto try something out. If you're
not doing it with thismotivation. Like, yeah, like,
I'm going to be so amazing. Andor, I'm going to be so hardcore.
And so God's gonna bless mebecause of it, whatever, all
(42:26):
those confusing things that comeinto it. But just, I also want
to think of, I want to be opento being inspired to try
something that's a little bitoutside of the normal. Yeah, as
well as the small, the smallstuff that is really bite size.
Because the the whole axe at theroot of the tree part that I
(42:46):
said, I liked, I just love thatimage of, you know, somebody
with an axe in their hands. Andthey do that kind of like aiming
thing, like one or two. And itbut it's before the big swing.
But that moment doesn't feelsuper grim to me, it feels
urgent and like, I want to beawake. And I don't want to I
(43:10):
want to be willing to be alittle bit weird. If it means
that I'm, you know, attemptingto receive notice and respond to
what, that the seeds that arebeing thrown. On my corner in my
house. Yeah, in my life.
Andy Withrow (43:34):
Yeah. Yeah, that's a really good image. It reminds
us that everything we're talkingabout isn't, and you mentioned
this earlier, it's not like thisgrasping for acceptance, or, or
God's love, because the parableis that it's given. Usually,
(43:57):
it's given liberally. It'sscattered everywhere. The
question isn't whether God lovesand has grace, the question is,
question of our agency, are wegoing are we going to put
ourselves in a position toreceive that kind of soil? Are
we are we cultivating? And Ithink that's true here because
(44:17):
God's word is returned andpardon, it's repent, which is
just a return to me just comeback change your course. And,
and the word of pardon is thatJohn, the word of the Lord did
John issues in a baptism ofrepentance for the forgiveness
of sins for this pardon for thisrestoration, like, that's God's
(44:38):
heart, in this passage and inthe Gospel, and all through the
scriptures is, I am for you. AndI want you to return to me. And
so everything we're talkingabout is putting ourselves in a
position to hear that to knowthat into into come back into
this this relationship in thisconnection. And how do we
(45:00):
prepare ourselves and get ready.
So that we can we can hear it,in know, his, his presence and
is coming.
Vanessa Caruso (45:10):
You know what it reminds me of your enoughness
stuff. Last time we talked, thatthere's a part of this that like
the forgiveness of sins and thebaptism of repentance, that
instead of being this reallydepressing situation, it's
actually a freeing one, where wecan enter Advent with what if we
(45:35):
assumed or trusted that we areenough, while also taking small
steps to better fertilize oursoil? You
Andy Withrow (45:47):
receive? Yeah, the the reality is, you're not going
to you're not going to beenough. And yourself. And it's
don't even try. But the gift isthat, that in Christ God has
made us God has now accepted usand meet us enough. So you are
free to to fail and stumble andbe really bad at listening to
(46:10):
God and and figuring out how tobe in His presence. But the
question is the fundamentalorientation that God is his
head, he can do a lot with justa little bit of our Okay, God, I
need help or just do a littlebit of life interruption. Learn
to look for him coming outsideof our expectations or
(46:32):
structures or business as usual.
See, whereas we're gonnainterrupt life a little bit,
and, and look for and listen towhat God might be doing. Seems
like the God of the Bible is theone who does a lot with even
just a little bit of that.
Vanessa Caruso (46:48):
Yes. And the baptism bit, when I was reading
about this passage, I read thatwhat John kind of initiated was
a very different form of baptismthan then was normal. From what
I understand, it was kind of arite of purity, where you'd like
(47:09):
sprinkle yourself with like somewater. So it was like an
individual act. And you could doit a bunch to get better and
better. And so being in theriver and kind of administering
a submersion, yeah, that's whatI'm assuming it was, like a
submersion type. meant to melike, this involves each other,
(47:32):
like, it's kind of a moreintimate way of being freed. And
it made me think that doingadventure with others is really
helpful. Whether it is a formalgroup, like a neighborhood
table, or a small group of somesort, or if it is your family,
or if it's your family withanother family, or if it's just
(47:54):
like, a friend that you feellike you can be honest with and
kind of admit what you're, whatyou're working with. Yeah, and
involve them. Even though I'mpretty self sufficient. I don't
usually feel a need to like,involve other people very much.
But part of the discipline, Ifeel like have the baptism of
repentance in the river issaying, like, we're going to
(48:18):
need each other something aboutthe Jesus way. Yeah, there's,
there's an interdependence. Thatis not totally my nature. And,
and the baptism of repentanceis, is getting into that a
little bit more. Yeah.
Andy Withrow (48:32):
Yeah. It's pretty good.
Vanessa Caruso (48:35):
How were how are we?
Andy Withrow (48:36):
We're pretty good.
Okay. I mean, I yeah, this mightbe a good, good spot to. To
break.
Vanessa Caruso (48:44):
I found the quote by Eugene just even though
we've talked about it, but hereit is. The assumption of
spirituality is that always Godis doing something before I know
it. So the task is not to getGod to do something I think
needs to be done, but to becomeaware of what God is doing, so
that I can respond to it andparticipate and take delight in
(49:06):
it.
Andy Withrow (49:09):
Right, yeah, that's great quote, and
yet, maybe before figuring outwhat is next there's probably
some music
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