April 18, 2023 • 45 mins
Vanessa & Andy welcome back Naomi Yeker (from our most downloaded episode of all time) and new guest Yvonne Mann. Naomi & Yvonne took the season of Lent to explore more deeply the concept and practice of Sabbath. They take some time to reflect on what they learned and give some helpful and insightful ideas for practicing Sabbath in 2023!
Resources mentioned in the show:
Walter Brueggemann - Sabbath as Resistance
Marva Dawn - Keeping the Sabbath Wholly
Abraham Joshua Heschel - The Sabbath
Ruth Haley Barton - Embracing Rhythms of Work and Rest
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Vanessa Caruso (00:01):
Welcome to the bear with me podcast where we
aim to integrate belief andpractice in the Christian life.
Andy Withrow (00:18):
Hey, welcome, everybody. We're glad to be back
from a little short break duringLent and happy Eastertide.
Everyone. Now that updated ourpodcast for everyone. We're
Vanessa and I are here. Andwe've got if we ever had two
guests at the same time now,this is a first Yeah, so we're
really excited. This is thefirst because we've got two
(00:38):
guests on our bear with mepodcast show. And one of the
guests is a returner. And hasthe distinction of being on the
show that has the single mostdownloads. Bear with me history.
So we know we needed a boost.
Yeah, like we need to get backinto the game. And so we back
Naomi Jaeger to come back, shecame back. Just a quick fact
check. You did have an episodewith two people with your summer
(01:00):
when with Liz and Anna here, butI wasn't. Yeah, that's true.
That's two guests. You're right.
You're right.
Yeah, this is the first timeright. So we've had two guests
before. But there's the firstone with four of us on at the
same time, because I was notthere for
Vanessa Caruso (01:14):
that one. Yeah, so it doesn't count Fanny's not
there.
Andy Withrow (01:17):
I don't have it actually, in my catalog. So.
So Naomi is with us. And thenYvonne man is also with us. And
the reason that they are with ustoday is because we want to ask
them a few questions aboutSabbath and how all this came
about was that at the tablechurch, where I'm a pastor,
we've got this thing calledkule. On its discipleship
(01:38):
formation, it's spiritualformation. And one of the things
we tried to do is really findleaders in the community to help
us with this. And Ivana andNaomi for Lent, both kind of had
the same idea at the same time,and about doing a study on
Sabbath. And they had some greatexperiences I'm not going to say
(02:01):
anything about because they'regonna ask them about it.
Kind of leaving some Sabbath,this Sabbath, the things over
Lent, and we now that that'sover, or that part of it is
overwhelming to have them comeon and share with us all their
deep learnings. So maybe thefirst question for both of you,
at the same time, is, okay, whatdo you remember about how this
(02:24):
got started? And why did you doit? And what was it, there's a
lot of things in there, you canstart wherever you want.
Yvonne (02:31):
I'll start with your neighborhood table. Because
Naomi and I are part of a samepart of a small group that meets
every other Sunday morning, andwe were going through that as
part of the church that youPastor Andy, we were going
through the 10 commandments. Andwe had this wonderful
conversation when it came toSabbath about and we started to
(02:52):
ask around, is anybodypracticing Sabbath? And what
does that look like for you? Andit was just a really kind of
innocent conversation starter,that, for me, anyway, led to
kind of deep thought andreflection, I've been kind of
interested in the idea ofsimplicity, and moving towards
that in some areas of my life.
And this just seemed to fit kindof as a deeper next step flow
(03:16):
into creating a more simplelifestyles, and having come out
a very busy time and stressfultime in my life, maybe a bit
more hungering for what Sabaseemed to offer me.
Naomi Yeker (03:32):
Yeah, and I think for me, it kind of came about
I've been following someteaching and stuff out of
Bridgetown Church, which is achurch in Portland and they've
been doing a lot of teachingaround spiritual formation and
Sabbath and stuff. And they hadstarted this are some of the
people from there had startedthis group called practicing the
way in or creating some greatresources around Sabbath and and
(03:57):
I just kind of been captivatedby this idea of how we can
create space in our lives inorder for God to kind of do work
in our lives and help grow usinto people of love and peace
and joy. And so there's kind ofsome like effort in creating
that space. But ultimately, it'ssort of resting and trusting in
(04:18):
God in that gap, you create abit, but I haven't really like
practice that with muchintentionality before this. So
yeah, for for Advent, I decidedto try and be a bit more, just
tried some intentionality aroundit. And then for Lent, we
decided to do something togetherand invite people into it.
Vanessa Caruso (04:40):
What I love about your experiment is the
together part of it, like I'vetried Sabbath kind of alone and
just failed at keeping it in, ina long term kind of way. But I
love that part of Sabbath whereit's not just for us, but it's
also the idea of By allowing ourneighbors to rest, you know, if
(05:03):
we're not shopping at certainplaces on a Sunday, that means
ultimately it would ideally meanthat people wouldn't have to
keep their businesses open on aSunday. So the fact that you did
it for Advent alone toexperiment, and then it kind of
sound as sounds like it grew abit to a communal experiment.
Yeah. For Lent. Yeah. Yeah, that
Naomi Yeker (05:26):
sounds really curious about because I had,
like, my tendency is just tokind of my idea of Sabbath a
search or withdraw. And yeah, bein silence and solitude and
rest, and stop kind of, butthere's sort of these other
elements of like, delighting andbringing other people into it.
And then also that like, yeah,we're resting together. And what
does that mean? So it was neatto to experiment about with that
(05:48):
together a bit more.
Vanessa Caruso (05:51):
So what was the experiment? Like? What did you
do with other people?
Yvonne (05:58):
Well, I will start and say that for me, it was kind of
a slow process of doing a lot ofreading about Sabbath, because
not having practice Sabbath withintentionality. I'd kind of done
what most of us typically thinka Sunday looks like get up, go
to church, maybe visit, relax,watch the ballgame, hockey game,
(06:27):
you know, read, you know, kindof do quiet things. And so the
first part for me was reallytrying to understand what was
Sabbath, both from a Christianperspective, and also reading
some Jewish traditions aroundSabbath. And so that for me was
kind of the beginning of it, andthen kind of committing that I
was going to try Sabbath as apractice for all of 2023. So
(06:52):
that became a New Year'sresolution, which was kind of
fun, because I thought that wayI could practice it. And it
didn't have to be anything Idid, right. I just had to kind
of move into it and see kind ofwhere it would take me. And then
between the two of us, we beganto kind of look at and I offered
up and said I would hold Sabbathsuppers on Saturdays in the
(07:14):
month of March. And that waskind of what I committed to we
also committed to doing a bit ofa talk, kind of invite people to
join us to kind of invite theminto that Saba supper and some
of the other things we weregoing to do. So we did a talk at
Kalia, which Andy referred towhat that was about. And we did
a little bit of a talk at thatabout what Sabbath was from our
(07:36):
perspective, and then leavingthem with the invitation to join
us during Lent. So invited themto our house for Sabbath supper
on Saturdays, and then maybeNaomi can explain it. Yeah.
Naomi Yeker (07:46):
And then paired with that we did a four or five
week study, kind of Sabbathdiscussion with the practicing
the way resources, which arefree and available online.
Yvonne (07:59):
And amazing. Yeah, they're missing. Yeah,
Naomi Yeker (08:01):
yeah. So we were kind of doing that in tandem,
like the study on Tuesday nightsat my place, and then the
Sabbath meals on Saturdaynights, it wasn't entirely the
same group. But
Yvonne (08:11):
no, yeah. There was lots of mixed up. And if people who
went to one or the other whomany had, nope, no real Sabbath
experience whatsoever. So theSaturday night became their
first Sabbath practice. Othershad way more history with it.
And were able to share with ussome of their experiences,
(08:33):
learnings and teachings. And soit was kind of a fun thing to
do. I might also add that mymom's birth father was a Jew.
And so for me, this has been areally interesting kind of like,
there's another layer forcuriosity around it. Not that
that's helped me be any moreknowledgeable, but it certainly
(08:56):
is added another layer ofperiodicity.
Vanessa Caruso (08:59):
Definitely.
Andy Withrow (09:02):
So what can you get into some of what you
learned going through theprocess?
Naomi Yeker (09:12):
Yeah, I mean, so basically, like for the Sabbath
meals, we would gather at a Vonshouse and sometimes most of the
time we would all kind ofcontribute to the meal and then
there was different prayers andkind of rhythms that we did. One
(09:33):
of which was we read the KurdishI don't know if I'm saying that
right prayer together and thereis we pour wine and there was
something to pray during thattime and light two candles, one
for remembrance and sorbents ofSabbath and then we bless each
other, go around the circle andbless each other. And then we
(09:54):
would have hollow bread,sometimes just garlic loaf,
whatever, and take him to useand to go around the circle and
talk about when aspect of ourweek that we would relive
because it was so good.
Vanessa Caruso (10:07):
Wow. Yeah.
Naomi Yeker (10:09):
So I really loved all the all the elements,
really. But the first one thatstuck out was the stuck out was
the blessing each other, Ithink, because it was a group of
people that I didn't actuallyknow all that well. And there
was just something kind of likeuncomfortable and a bit unusual
about like, looking intosomeone's eyes besides you, and
(10:31):
what do we say, May you be happyand at peace on the Sabbath?
It's quite simple. But there wassomething I just really enjoyed
about saying that out loud, andthen receiving that from
somebody. And I know, it mightseem sort of for a second,
though, some people don't likethe passing of the piece or
whatever. But it felt like maybejust because new and a bit
(10:53):
uncomfortable, but neat. Like Ijust really received from that.
Vanessa Caruso (10:59):
Wow. So it wasn't a spontaneous blessing.
Naomi Yeker (11:02):
No, I think you could grow into that. But we're
sort of beginner stages.
Vanessa Caruso (11:07):
So you turn to the person on your right. Yeah.
And and say this, Yeah, minethese lines, and they would and
then they would receive it. Andthen they would turn and say
Yes, exactly. Yeah. Beautiful.
Yeah. What was the line again,
Naomi Yeker (11:20):
may be happy and at peace on this Sabbath. Sounds
nice. Yeah.
Yvonne (11:24):
In the Jewish tradition, the fathers, the children are at
the table. And we didn't havethat experience with our Sabbath
meals. But maybe, well, we did,actually. Because anyways,
that's another story. But in theJewish tradition, the children
are also at the Sabbath table,of course, and the fathers all
took turns would bless thechildren. And that was a very
consistent process of blessing.
And I actually think there issomething about that the women
(11:48):
in the Jewish tradition play amuch greater role around the
around the rituals that happen,they light the candles, and they
just some of the parents, butit's the father that blesses the
children. So it's kind of a nicelittle role reversal in some
ways, and yet, very much likethe Old Testament stories of,
you know, the father blessingthe the sons and all that kind
(12:09):
of thing. So I, I kind of lookforward to the day when that is
part of some of our Sabbathpractices. But a rich thing to
do for our kids today.
Vanessa Caruso (12:22):
Yeah. To look them in the eye and bless them
like that. Weekly. Be cool.
Yeah.
Andy Withrow (12:29):
That's hard to do.
As you point out, it's like it'suncomfortable. I think it's
something about that, that'sdifferent. It's in the in the
sort of growing up in the churchor the Christian subculture,
it's easier to I'll pray for youor let me pray for you. But to
actually looks on there, andit's like, speak to them, where
it's a different dynamic. And wedo like at, baptisms, we usually
(12:50):
have like a matriarchal orpatriarchal blessing. But no
matter how much how muchinstruction you give, it's so
easily reverts to prayer. I findit Yeah, it's a prayer. Blessing
is speaking to the child yourwords, in the name in the Name
of God in the name of Jesus.
(13:12):
Wow, that's a different thing.
Yeah, I think it's just socounterintuitive for us in or
out of practice, or even some ofthat. The power of it is yeah,
we're a bit shy of that's kindof a fascinating dynamic.
Naomi Yeker (13:25):
It's interesting. I feel like with the blessing,
usually keep your eyes open, oris prayer. You close your eyes.
There's something about thatintimacy. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Andy Withrow (13:37):
Yeah, that's just a lot more comfortable than
looking even sad. I like May Godbless you, and make this happen
in your life. And maybe this inthis level, isn't it? Yeah.
Yvonne (13:50):
We have to remember that Jesus practice the Sabbath. So
these these little traditionsthat we do maybe have evolved
over the years, but at the sametime, there were practices that
Jesus was doing like a blessing,which I suspect he was doing.
Yeah. And so when we do thesethings, now with a real sense of
this is this is an imitation ofJesus, then you begin to deepen
(14:13):
what you're doing. I feel likeit's a much deeper experience
for me when I think that Jesusmay have done this, I'm
participating in something Jesusmay have done doesn't make me
Jesus, but it sure makes me feela little bit closer to him in
terms of that culture doesn'tseem quite so distant for me.
Anyway, it was that was a reallyinteresting we did have one of
(14:35):
our Sabbath meals as a picnic.
So we went for a nature walk andthen we came back and we did a
little bit of lit the candlesand did a little bit of the
Saudi goldstream. Now one of theparks out here, and in doing
that, it was interesting therewe had children. And then we did
that but instead of doing it,and it was a little, it was a
new group of people. New totallyto Sab. With many of them, it
(14:59):
was a new experience. Butinstead of doing it all the way
around, we just turn to someonenext to us. But you could feel a
little bit of theuncomfortableness from some of
them. And yet they rested in it.
Like there is something aboutspeaking of blessing that is
uncomfortable. But once you doit, it is as you say, you you.
(15:20):
There's something soft about it.
It's not a harsh, and it's not.
The words are not uncomfortableto say, yeah. You know, and
feel. So it was really aninteresting experience.
Naomi Yeker (15:33):
Yeah. That was one of my favorite things, I have
more, but do you want to goahead.
I also liked how there's anidea, one of their ideas in the
material is to have a Sabbathbox, I never actually got to the
box place, but I'm curious aboutit. But you have a box. And when
(15:55):
you come for the meal, peopleput like their phones and their
wallets and their keys. And youtake a little moment to like,
write out things that might beon your mind or to do lists, and
you put it in the box as you'rekind of like setting it aside.
And you cover your clocks, sothat you're not paying attention
to time. And yeah, there wasjust something so neat about
(16:17):
like having my phone off havingmy watch off. And you're just
kind of going you're enjoyingthe evening without any sense of
like, wanting to go home becausethere's nothing you have to get
home for because the next day isjust a day of rest. So it's like
if you're tired, you go home.
And if you're not, then you stayand enjoy. Which was just Yeah,
it was just so fun to have kindof like that. Freedom in that.
(16:37):
And you're just like that. Ithink it makes you more present
in the evening. Because you'renot paying attention to the time
or people you're texting orwhatever.
Yvonne (16:50):
Once we did do one sent when the cover. Yeah, yeah, we
didn't do the notes. But we didput the cell phones into a box,
which was and I kind of toldeverybody ahead of time, that
was what we were moving towards.
And I did cover all my clocks inthe house. So cool. And so it
was really cool. And then we sopeople came in and then I will
talk a little bit about that.
(17:14):
Because it led to some reallyinteresting conversation, a
couple of things came up when Isaid to them, okay, so you don't
have watches, you don't havetime. If you're tired in the
evening goes really short, andeverybody's just tired. They
want to go home that says whatyou really need. So that's okay,
if the night goes long, and it'slike wee hours in the morning,
it says that's what we need. Solike, I don't really care, like
(17:35):
the time is irrelevant. Sabbathis really around listening to
your body and your rhythms.
Anyway, all that to say so theyentered into it, except one
person who told me later, Ididn't know about putting the
cell phones in the boxes. Andshe said, What was really
interesting to me was that asthe evening went on, and I
realized no one had pulled outtheir cell phone to fact check.
(17:58):
We got into really deep biblicalconversations. And you could see
people's minds just were tryingto find a scripture. And if
they'd had their cell phone,they could have only looked it
up. And so there was a lot ofreally deep spiritual
conversation, but there was nointerruption of the phone. Wow.
And she said it was so everybodywas so present. And that was
(18:20):
her, her observation of us justsimply not having a cell phone
at the table. So parents outthere who say to your kids leave
your cell phone away from thedinner table, you know,
obviously, you know, there'ssome real reasons for trying to
do that more and more. Yeah. Iwill also say cell phones are
the biggest challenge for me onSabbath. In what way being
(18:43):
present and available to others.
Vanessa Caruso (18:51):
So do you mean being distracted by the phone on
Sabbath and it takes yourpresence away from others or
it's hard to be present topeople if you're if you're not
on your phone? It means
Yvonne (18:59):
that my family don't practice Sabbath don't
understand Sabbath so they stillneed to contact me yeah and
sometimes it's the only way ofconnecting yeah you know elderly
parents yes. A granddaughter whojust sometimes a little more
needy and so wanting to bepresent your cell phone is on
well if it's on it's alsobecomes a distraction for other
(19:21):
purposes and reasons so it's itjust Yeah, and everybody I've
almost there exceptions butalmost everyone I've read in
recent years who practiceSabbath express that is probably
one of the biggest challenges issetting that off and the side
Vanessa Caruso (19:37):
yeah, because you have to view your whole
world kind of set it off is thefeeling Yeah, well family or
it's the contact
Yvonne (19:44):
that the cell phone is the way of contacting yet
another and so we don't havelandlines anymore. Yeah. So it
is discomforting? Yeah. To knowthat if someone has an emergency
pastors talk about this. Yeah.
And how do they handle Sabbath?
So maybe? Yeah, talk about that.
Andy Withrow (20:06):
Nobody owes me for an emergency. Not true. Almost
true. Oh, really? No, I don't,I'd say a typical, I think I
think that's a function of theculture of our church in a good
in a good way is because of theway that we're structured.
There's a lot of many pastors inthe community. So someone would
call somebody actuallyconnecting on a Sunday in a
(20:28):
smaller group at theneighborhood table, or, or so.
Vanessa Caruso (20:34):
I can't believe covering clocks is a thing. I've
never lived without, like anawareness of time. Like that.
And it it strikes me it takessome planning, like you have to
have a margin around that timein order to truly cover the
(20:54):
clocks and like, kind of have ahave an inner clock. Yeah. For
like, what do I need to do rightnow instead of looking
externally to say I need to dothis by this time, or I need to
be here by then. So that'spretty radical in itself.
Yvonne (21:11):
I just love the topic of time is now Oh, my gosh,
Vanessa Caruso (21:16):
I do to
Yvonne (21:18):
clean my greatest. And Naomi knows, I was gonna talk
about this, just waiting for theopportunity. Because, for me the
study of Sabbath, the greatestand most kind of get the hairs
back on the on the back of myneck to stand up was really when
I started to really read abouthow Sabbath came to be so God
(21:39):
creates, creates, and on theseventh day, he finishes the
blood work, and then he rests.
And He sanctifies, or thisperiod of time, so not a
mountain, not a creature, not aperson, it is time, and he
creates it and makes it holy.
And so I have really, I haven'tfound a good writer on the
(22:01):
construct of time and holiness.
But Abraham, Joshua Hescheldon't get his name, right. He's
a Jewish writer, and he has alot to say about time. And he's
often quoted for some of theconstructs around time, and
saying that really God createdand sanctified the Sabbath made
it holy, it is holy, whether weenter it into it or not. So
(22:23):
there is this holy period oftime that God has created, and
we enter into it. So for me, Istarted to think about okay, so
time is what the first thing Godmade holy was time. And it's
this like, thing without power,nobody can control it, nobody
owns it, nobody can make you getmore or less of it. It is like
this really crazy kind of thingthat we don't truly understand
(22:48):
even from a physics or any otherkind of way of looking at it.
And so there's that piece of itthat I really found quite
fascinating. And so I've reallybeen looking at time, and why a
period of time and what is to bedone in that period of time. If
it's holy. What do we do withit's more than resting and
(23:12):
ceasing work, right? And it'snot going to church necessarily,
that might be part of it. Buthow do we create a period of
time? How do we keep it holy?
How do we honor that holiness.
And so I've just, I think I'mstill mulling that over a lot in
my own mind. I mean, I've gotsome answers and some ideas. And
(23:34):
I've read a lot and everybodyhas some real constructs. But I
kind of liken it to Communion.
We always think somethinghappens when you take the bread
and wine and there's lots oftheological perspectives on
that. But I also think thatsimilarly, there's something
that happens in the in thesanctified time that we call
(23:55):
Sabbath that we are missing outon, we just see it as another
day of the week. Yeah, but it isholy. And so this holy time, God
is looking for us to show up andmeet us there and to be present
with him in it. And there issomething there that we I have
been missing. So yeah.
Naomi Yeker (24:16):
And there's something that I really liked
about the Sabbath meals in thatway is that it's kind of like
this. You have all these peoplehelping you to remember that
each week and like there's sortof a bit of ceremony going into
it with the candles and theprayers and like, because on
your own it's so easy to kind ofjust forget, at least for me,
Yvonne (24:33):
or slide into it. Yeah, yeah. Slide out of it. Yeah.
Vanessa Caruso (24:37):
Wow. That is radical. I love the topic of
time to so much.
Yvonne (24:44):
Share your writers with
Vanessa Caruso (24:47):
that we should in the show notes. I see your
mod ridden book that I haven'tread on the table. Is that one
of your favorites.
Yvonne (24:53):
It's my latest Okay, and I'm just kind of trying to kind
of do a lot a lot of broadStroke reading. What I liked
about hers is everybody hastheir own construct of ceasing,
resting, delighting andworshiping, and she uses the
term embracing, and she talks alot about intentionality. And so
(25:16):
I've been talking a lot aboutintentionality. So she's really
speaking to me because I reallythink that that's kind of the
key to Sabbath is that there'ssome intentionality Yeah, in the
way we enter into it. And thetime that we spend, she does
that image talks about feasting.
And so the term delighting isgood, but I think her feasting
is kind of replacing worshiping,which is interesting, or maybe,
I think that I think that and Ihaven't totally finished the
(25:39):
book. But it's this idea ofSabbath being a celebration. And
so in the Jewish tradition,Sabbath comes to you as a bride.
So as a bride comes to thegroom, there is the setting
aside of work, this is settingaside of, of troubles and
whatever might be weighingheavily on your mind, and you
celebrate. And so this idea offeasting that she enters into
(26:00):
and she, they're really shortchapters are easy reads, but she
talks about feasting on theinternal with music with boot
beauty, with food with affectionand festival. So like just this
idea of Sabbath isn't this kindof somber occasion, it's
actually quite the opposite.
It's really as a celebration.
And so I was really struck bythe term feasting and thinking,
(26:24):
how do we feast on God becausereally, all Sabbath is doing is
drawing us closer to God andfeasting on him. And, and we do
that through worship and allthese other things, but it's
this, it's a celebration as muchas it is reflection, and we all
enter into that differentlydepending on how we're wired,
(26:44):
you know, intellectually, withmusic with nature, I think it's
just important to remember thatI can't tell you how to do
Sabbath. There's some thingsthat might help you practices,
but it's, it's very uniquelydesigned.
Naomi Yeker (27:01):
Yeah. Reminds me to have, I think it was the quote
from your fasting lent episode.
Or you're talking about, therewas a quote, where we, we don't
actually enjoy feasting as muchor as fully because we're not
fasting in the same way and, andhow we're kind of oversaturated
with everything every day. Andso there's not sort of a special
(27:23):
occasion and remind me of youmentioning how it can feel kind
of expensive, or like a lot tobe having nice wine every every
week and a lot of fancy food andhaving people over, but habits
kind of made you rethink alittle bit like maybe having
simpler meals during the week sothat you can have this more
special day, once a week. Andjust in other ways, too. That
(27:47):
makes me think of how we Yeah,are kind of like overindulging.
Yeah. Other ways. And thenthere's no kind of heartedly all
the time. Yeah, yeah. Anyways,so that's kind of also a theme
on my mind.
Vanessa Caruso (28:03):
Yeah, I love that. I don't remember who said
this. It might have been onthat. Practicing the way podcast
but someone said people whopractice Sabbath live all seven
days differently. Yeah. Andthat, that reminds me of it.
Like when you do set aside timeand there's intentionality and
feasting, that it affects therest of your week. It's not just
(28:26):
about that day, the fruits of itare kind of lived out, which is
also the idea. I think you'vewe've talked about this before.
Walter Brueggemann talks aboutit in his book Sabbath as
resistance that there's thistheory that the fourth
commandment? So there's 10commandments, the first three
are about God about a God who isnot anxious who rest who, who
(28:47):
doesn't worry about the fullfunctioning of creation. So the
first three are about God andnaming God is that and then the
fourth one is you'll keep theSabbath holy. And then the last,
I don't know what my math is sixor so are about how to make sure
everyone can rest. Relationship,yeah, how to be how to be in
(29:09):
relationship. And he says thatthe key, maybe the fourth
commandment is key. It allows usto keep the other six so we
don't have to cut it. We don'thave to reduce relationships to
greed or sexual exploitation orwhatever it is, if if we learn
kind of the secret of Sabbath,so that reminds me to have will
(29:33):
live all of the commandmentsdifferently. In a way if we can
figure out grace, which is whatSabbath kind of represents to
me, is like an economy of grace.
Yeah.
Yvonne (29:45):
Cool. Thanks. Studying the Sabbath for me has just
really rounded out my Christianfaith like it just there's so
much about it, because to kindof further that, what you were
talking about Walter Brueggemannsaid is that really it is around
the dependence on God. So thevery first thing he does in that
Exodus 20 Chapter is he reallyis saying, you are under
(30:06):
Pharaoh, now you're under me.
And it is going to bedifferently. You're going to
depend on me, I'm not going todepend on you, I'm not going to
put my year you're not going toeffort for me. I am, I am your
provider and depend on me. And Ijust, I think that's the other
thing in this culture, where wefeel so self dependent for our
next meal for our next this are,how are we going to pay rent?
(30:29):
How are we going to do this? Howare we going to do that? And
really, the whole SabbathKeeping is the notion that I can
leave things undone the box, youput your undone list into the
box, and for one day, you letGod hold that list and figure
out what how it's going to getdone. Even that. It's just it's
amazing. So that reshapes yourwhole week. It really does.
(30:50):
Yeah, so I, I've just been, thewhole study has been like, why
haven't I learned this? I'm old.
And so I'm Why haven't I beentaught this and learn this?
Yeah. And I really feel likeit's been a huge mess in my life
an opportunity to, to learn thatdependence on God in a new in a
(31:13):
fresh way.
Andy Withrow (31:15):
Seems like such a great example of something that
has to be more practice thantaught, like, it's not so much
use the to dues of it, it'slike, it's actually a rhythm
that you have to Yes, like yousaid, experiment, like, I'm just
gonna experiment to see whatthis is, as opposed to just
here's how you do the Sabbath.
Totally, which is hard to do. Inour moment,
Yvonne (31:42):
I kind of liken it to growing a garden. And a gardener
will tell you that there'salways next year. And so if it
doesn't come up, if it doesn'twork, if it doesn't happen,
there's always next year. And soeven for me, like my Sabbath
practices have beeninconsistent, even though I've
said I was going to set it inpractice them. I've had some
really bad moments where thingshave gotten really sour on me.
(32:05):
And I thought, well, that wasreally on Sabbath, like, are not
very good Sabbath. But there'salways next Sabbath. And so I
think that that too, is like yousay, it's, it's a practice, it's
a rhythm. It's a saying, I'mseeking God, you know, it's an
attempt to seek God. And you cankeep doing that next week. Yeah,
and the next week, and the nextweek, and you can fail and,
(32:27):
like, doesn't matter what thisis about, it's about the heart.
And it's nice
Naomi Yeker (32:31):
that it's kind of Yes, sort of there for you each
week. Like, you can be like, youknow, in a time of sorrow or a
time of, you know, greathappiness, and it kind of can be
for you in that season, what itneeds to be, like a time for
those space for those feelings,or Yeah, sharing Joy anyways, so
(32:52):
just need that. It's just thisbuilt in, built in rhythm. I
think in the in the practicingthe way material, it talks about
how the seven day week is theone thing that is not related to
the stars or anything like it's,they've, it could be changed if
we wanted it to be and I think Idon't remember when at some
point in history, they tried toextend it to a 10 day week. And
(33:14):
like productivity actually wentdown because people like
couldn't rest as they needed to.
Not that we're always using thatrhythm. But so it just seems
like this, there's actuallysomething to that, that rhythm
that's important for us tofunction and flourish. Just
interesting.
Vanessa Caruso (33:33):
Yeah.
Yvonne (33:36):
It's been so much fun.
The meals have been just a realsweet spot in the week just to
kind of connect with people atthat level. And there are
churches that are doing this asa church and have created
rhythms so that the pastoralstaff actually get Sabbath and
do it have kind of figured outhow to do it. I think that it's
(33:58):
just an opportunity for peopleto set aside some time to just
kind of reconnect with God in adifferent way. And I think at
the table, we end Sabbath with ameal on Sunday nights. Because
we come together, it's a reallydelightful way of ending our
Sabbath. And, you know, maybe weshould talk about how we
(34:22):
communicate that as part of ourour Sunday night is because many
not everybody Sabbath on Sunday,there are a few that do
Saturday, and that's, you know,Friday, Saturday or however they
do it. But it is kind of anacknowledgment that that has
transpired and it's good.
Andy Withrow (34:43):
Yeah, though, that would be great to start think
about those things. Maybequestion I have is what's the if
anything else on that listthat's like, yeah, I need to
share this really great thing Ilearned or thing that happened
or, or whatever, now's the timeto do highlight
Vanessa Caruso (35:03):
or learning ask another question. Or reflection.
Andy Withrow (35:07):
Now he has furrowed brow she's thinking.
Naomi Yeker (35:11):
I mean, there's I feel like there's always more.
So I feel like you should askyour question. Well, I was
Andy Withrow (35:16):
going to ask them.
So what's next after becauseyou've kind of done this thing
like we've committed to march oryou know, I think you just
finished up just this week,right? Yeah. Your Tuesday
nights. So what do you see nextfor you, maybe in relation to
our community? What are somethoughts or ideas or
imaginations?
Naomi Yeker (35:35):
Well, we've talked about maybe doing once a month
Sabbath dinners. Avans gotanother one planned. So keeping
it going in some regard, butyeah, I'm still thinking through
through that myself. I wouldlove to keep keep it communal in
some aspects. But it's also itis a lot of organizing and
(36:00):
stuff. So finding the balance ofthat and like having every
Saturday night put aside islike, who quite a commitment if,
forever. So, yeah, I'm stillfiguring it out. But like, but
want to continue in somecapacity? What about you,
Yvonne?
Yvonne (36:17):
Well, I'm committed to doing Sabbath for all of 2023.
Right? Okay. Having read it, andstudied it, and the more I study
it, I really do feel like it's acommandment that I've missed in
my life. So I will continue itin some form. And honor it to
the degree that I can honor itwith all the other commitments
(36:39):
that get stacked on but thoseother commitments are usually
people commitments, which isreally still part of practicing
the Sabbath. It's just a matterof keeping that balanced with
time for myself to enter deeplyinto time with God. And I think
that that's stuff that I'm stilltrying to work out in my own
head, we're going to try andcontinue to do Sabbath meals one
Saturday, a month at my house,whether it moves to more or not,
(37:03):
I entertained quite a bit. Soit's not unusual for me to have
people over on a Saturday night,I just have to decide how much
of this for people who don't,who aren't part of a fellowship,
who might find that reallyweird. My son came over, he's
not a practicing Christian, hecame over he goes when we become
Jewish, because he saw thecandles. And I'm like, Oh, you
(37:24):
have no idea. And so I thinkthat there's just some ways of
trying to figure out, those whoI read, who have been practicing
Sabbath all their lives, or formajority of their lives, the
people as they enter into theirlives, see that as part of their
rhythm, and it's not questioned.
But for those of us that areentering into Sabbath practice,
and haven't been doing it for along period of time, there is a
(37:44):
whole bunch of unlearning forpeople around you. And you're
really not adding something toyour week, you're really trying
to find ways to undo. So I don'tthink that this is necessarily a
quick and easy rhythm to enterinto your life. It takes some
real thought. And I think givingmyself a year to kind of see how
I can make this work is probablywas wisdom I didn't have but
(38:08):
just got lucky on are blessedwith because I certainly I
really didn't realize howdifficult it was going to be to
maintain.
Naomi Yeker (38:19):
Yeah. Yeah, that reminds me, can I give four
helpful reminders? Yeah. Thatthey're not from me, they're
from the material we were using.
But the first one is to startsmall. So maybe, like 24 hours
of a Sabbath is a lot to startoff with right away. So you can
kind of try it a morning orwhatever, something that's
(38:39):
approachable, and then trying tothink subtraction, not addition.
So it can feel like just anotherthing you're adding into a busy
schedule. But if you try andthink about what could be, you
know, taken out, yeah, ratherthan added in, and then you get
out what you put in. So if likeI have a tendency to sort of
(39:01):
like dip my toes and things andtry it out a little bit and
you're, you're less likely toget a lot out of it if you're
not sort of doing it with yourwhole heart, I guess. And then
they talk about remembering theJ curve. So usually like
something will get a little bitworse before it actually gets
better. So try and stick it outfor a little while. And that
there's no formation withoutrepetition. So spiritual
(39:25):
formation is slow and deep andcumulative. So it's not gonna
we're not gonna figure this outover our like four week lens
practice. It kind of gives youtalked about it kind of getting
us like a map for the journeyahead and maybe people that will
help you as you figure it out.
But yeah, it's kind of it'll bea long probably lifelong thing
(39:46):
continuing to learn.
Vanessa Caruso (39:48):
Well, just on top of that are in addition to
those Yeah, anything either ofyou have found personally that
helps you keep a Sabbath or planfor it like any Just real life
things for you on the front end,that enable you that make the
possibility of Sabbath thisSaturday, more, more likely.
Naomi Yeker (40:12):
I mean, we've talked about like, the just the
practical things of like groceryshopping and meal planning and
stuff ahead of time, which cankind of feel like filling up
your earlier days. But keepingin mind for me, I kind of think
of it as like, I'm sort ofpreparing like a gift for my
future self. And when I think ofit like that, like, Oh, this is
(40:33):
worth it, like, I want to getthese things done earlier, so
that I have this time and likethere's food made for me, and,
and kind of keeping in mind,like my broader girl goal of
wanting to, like engage with Godin a deeper way and grow.
Myself. So, yeah, and then Ithink that it kind of helps, for
(40:56):
me at least, like prioritize abit like if I want to have this
as a priority, then, you know,you've mentioned to you about
and like maybe I won't watch ashow this night so that I can
prepare things or communicatearound now so that I'll have
this day. And that was one ofthe things I learned from the
digital minimalism thing waslike that. I actually did have a
(41:17):
bit more time than I realizedjust sort of like, all these
little moments. Yeah, that sortof add up. And then if you are
not watching it, it kind of liketakes up your whole life. Yeah.
Vanessa Caruso (41:30):
Oh, that's so helpful.
Yvonne (41:32):
I will say one, I'll tell one story on myself. So as
I was practicing this, before westarted to do the Sabbath meals,
I too, started in Advent. And sobut after Christmas, sometime,
Jim and I were trying to get awhole bunch of stuff done in an
afternoon, and he was drivingthe car, and it was getting
close to Sabbath. And I had onemore stop to make before I had
(41:54):
all my Sabbath things together.
And then it was going to beSabbath for me starts at six
o'clock. So it was about 430 inthe afternoon. And we were
trying to get I can't rememberwhat it was something that I
needed to get. And we'd gone totwo stores, and they didn't have
it. And I was off to the thirdone. And we were driving down
the road. And Jim was driving onmy husband, and he's driving and
he's going like 10 kilometersunder the speed limit. And I'm
(42:18):
going I'm trying really hard tobe, you know, not the drive, and
not show my impatience. I said,Jim, I think the speed limit is
50k here. Yeah, yeah. Do youthink you could kind of maybe
speed it up, like, maybe get alittle closer to the speed
limit? And he's like, yeah, sohe's like, up to like, 45
(42:40):
kilometers an hour now. Andlike, I am like screaming inside
my head that I'm not going toget to Sabbath and get all these
things that I need to do so thatI can get to Sabbath. And
finally he gets up to 50. Youknow, like I've mentioned him a
long time ago. 50. And he goes,Man, this Sabbath is really
stressful. And so I do thinkthat I think in our practice of
(43:05):
Sabbath, we if we aren't planfulwe can get to that headspace of
just creating stress foreverybody around us in order
that we might sit, of course, wedid get home and we did sit down
and we had a glass of wine. AndI before we had to go and we
were going to join somebody fora meal. And I said, Isn't this
lovely? You know, this is thisis the reward is sitting on the
(43:26):
deck enjoying a glass of wine.
So I think that there's that andso I do think Sabbath practices
and in things that make iteasier is the reward. But it
also for me, the last time wehad last couple of times we were
practicing Sabbath meal was Iwas anticipating being with
(43:47):
people and like I have companyall the time. But there was a
different kind of anticipatoryfeeling that I had, as I went
looking forward to that Sabbathmeal. I felt more like it was
not me hosting, but it was Ireally, I into I don't know why
it felt different. But I reallyfelt like it was more a group
(44:08):
coming together. Not me hostingpeople into my home. I don't
know why it felt different. I'venot been doing it long enough to
explain that. But it did feelmore of a participatory kind of
feeling. And if that continues,that's what's going to drive me
forward. Yeah. And then mySunday mornings are quiet walks
(44:29):
and doing other kinds of thingsthat I look forward to so it's,
it becomes something that isworthy of entering into anyway.
Wow. Kind of you too is thewalks right? Yeah.
Vanessa Caruso (44:47):
Naomi's walks by this was great. Yeah, it was. It
was great. Oh, wow. Look at us.
Andy Withrow (44:58):
I don't know about you. Thank God. guess
Naomi Yeker (45:03):
God we didn't let you guys talk man. That was
Vanessa Caruso (45:05):
the planet
Andy Withrow (45:07):
guests on the show. So this was this was the
plan.
Vanessa Caruso (45:10):
Yeah, thank you for
Andy Withrow (45:12):
for experimenting with Sabbath and then coming and
sharing with us
Vanessa Caruso (45:24):
Yep, thanks everyone. Bye. Thank you. Bye
Welcome to the bear with me podcast where we
aim to integrate belief andpractice in the Christian life.
Andy Withrow (00:18):
Hey, welcome, everybody. We're glad to be back
from a little short break duringLent and happy Eastertide.
Everyone. Now that updated ourpodcast for everyone. We're
Vanessa and I are here. Andwe've got if we ever had two
guests at the same time now,this is a first Yeah, so we're
really excited. This is thefirst because we've got two
(00:38):
guests on our bear with mepodcast show. And one of the
guests is a returner. And hasthe distinction of being on the
show that has the single mostdownloads. Bear with me history.
So we know we needed a boost.
Yeah, like we need to get backinto the game. And so we back
Naomi Jaeger to come back, shecame back. Just a quick fact
check. You did have an episodewith two people with your summer
(01:00):
when with Liz and Anna here, butI wasn't. Yeah, that's true.
That's two guests. You're right.
You're right.
Yeah, this is the first timeright. So we've had two guests
before. But there's the firstone with four of us on at the
same time, because I was notthere for
Vanessa Caruso (01:14):
that one. Yeah, so it doesn't count Fanny's not
there.
Andy Withrow (01:17):
I don't have it actually, in my catalog. So.
So Naomi is with us. And thenYvonne man is also with us. And
the reason that they are with ustoday is because we want to ask
them a few questions aboutSabbath and how all this came
about was that at the tablechurch, where I'm a pastor,
we've got this thing calledkule. On its discipleship
(01:38):
formation, it's spiritualformation. And one of the things
we tried to do is really findleaders in the community to help
us with this. And Ivana andNaomi for Lent, both kind of had
the same idea at the same time,and about doing a study on
Sabbath. And they had some greatexperiences I'm not going to say
(02:01):
anything about because they'regonna ask them about it.
Kind of leaving some Sabbath,this Sabbath, the things over
Lent, and we now that that'sover, or that part of it is
overwhelming to have them comeon and share with us all their
deep learnings. So maybe thefirst question for both of you,
at the same time, is, okay, whatdo you remember about how this
(02:24):
got started? And why did you doit? And what was it, there's a
lot of things in there, you canstart wherever you want.
Yvonne (02:31):
I'll start with your neighborhood table. Because
Naomi and I are part of a samepart of a small group that meets
every other Sunday morning, andwe were going through that as
part of the church that youPastor Andy, we were going
through the 10 commandments. Andwe had this wonderful
conversation when it came toSabbath about and we started to
(02:52):
ask around, is anybodypracticing Sabbath? And what
does that look like for you? Andit was just a really kind of
innocent conversation starter,that, for me, anyway, led to
kind of deep thought andreflection, I've been kind of
interested in the idea ofsimplicity, and moving towards
that in some areas of my life.
And this just seemed to fit kindof as a deeper next step flow
(03:16):
into creating a more simplelifestyles, and having come out
a very busy time and stressfultime in my life, maybe a bit
more hungering for what Sabaseemed to offer me.
Naomi Yeker (03:32):
Yeah, and I think for me, it kind of came about
I've been following someteaching and stuff out of
Bridgetown Church, which is achurch in Portland and they've
been doing a lot of teachingaround spiritual formation and
Sabbath and stuff. And they hadstarted this are some of the
people from there had startedthis group called practicing the
way in or creating some greatresources around Sabbath and and
(03:57):
I just kind of been captivatedby this idea of how we can
create space in our lives inorder for God to kind of do work
in our lives and help grow usinto people of love and peace
and joy. And so there's kind ofsome like effort in creating
that space. But ultimately, it'ssort of resting and trusting in
(04:18):
God in that gap, you create abit, but I haven't really like
practice that with muchintentionality before this. So
yeah, for for Advent, I decidedto try and be a bit more, just
tried some intentionality aroundit. And then for Lent, we
decided to do something togetherand invite people into it.
Vanessa Caruso (04:40):
What I love about your experiment is the
together part of it, like I'vetried Sabbath kind of alone and
just failed at keeping it in, ina long term kind of way. But I
love that part of Sabbath whereit's not just for us, but it's
also the idea of By allowing ourneighbors to rest, you know, if
(05:03):
we're not shopping at certainplaces on a Sunday, that means
ultimately it would ideally meanthat people wouldn't have to
keep their businesses open on aSunday. So the fact that you did
it for Advent alone toexperiment, and then it kind of
sound as sounds like it grew abit to a communal experiment.
Yeah. For Lent. Yeah. Yeah, that
Naomi Yeker (05:26):
sounds really curious about because I had,
like, my tendency is just tokind of my idea of Sabbath a
search or withdraw. And yeah, bein silence and solitude and
rest, and stop kind of, butthere's sort of these other
elements of like, delighting andbringing other people into it.
And then also that like, yeah,we're resting together. And what
does that mean? So it was neatto to experiment about with that
(05:48):
together a bit more.
Vanessa Caruso (05:51):
So what was the experiment? Like? What did you
do with other people?
Yvonne (05:58):
Well, I will start and say that for me, it was kind of
a slow process of doing a lot ofreading about Sabbath, because
not having practice Sabbath withintentionality. I'd kind of done
what most of us typically thinka Sunday looks like get up, go
to church, maybe visit, relax,watch the ballgame, hockey game,
(06:27):
you know, read, you know, kindof do quiet things. And so the
first part for me was reallytrying to understand what was
Sabbath, both from a Christianperspective, and also reading
some Jewish traditions aroundSabbath. And so that for me was
kind of the beginning of it, andthen kind of committing that I
was going to try Sabbath as apractice for all of 2023. So
(06:52):
that became a New Year'sresolution, which was kind of
fun, because I thought that wayI could practice it. And it
didn't have to be anything Idid, right. I just had to kind
of move into it and see kind ofwhere it would take me. And then
between the two of us, we beganto kind of look at and I offered
up and said I would hold Sabbathsuppers on Saturdays in the
(07:14):
month of March. And that waskind of what I committed to we
also committed to doing a bit ofa talk, kind of invite people to
join us to kind of invite theminto that Saba supper and some
of the other things we weregoing to do. So we did a talk at
Kalia, which Andy referred towhat that was about. And we did
a little bit of a talk at thatabout what Sabbath was from our
(07:36):
perspective, and then leavingthem with the invitation to join
us during Lent. So invited themto our house for Sabbath supper
on Saturdays, and then maybeNaomi can explain it. Yeah.
Naomi Yeker (07:46):
And then paired with that we did a four or five
week study, kind of Sabbathdiscussion with the practicing
the way resources, which arefree and available online.
Yvonne (07:59):
And amazing. Yeah, they're missing. Yeah,
Naomi Yeker (08:01):
yeah. So we were kind of doing that in tandem,
like the study on Tuesday nightsat my place, and then the
Sabbath meals on Saturdaynights, it wasn't entirely the
same group. But
Yvonne (08:11):
no, yeah. There was lots of mixed up. And if people who
went to one or the other whomany had, nope, no real Sabbath
experience whatsoever. So theSaturday night became their
first Sabbath practice. Othershad way more history with it.
And were able to share with ussome of their experiences,
(08:33):
learnings and teachings. And soit was kind of a fun thing to
do. I might also add that mymom's birth father was a Jew.
And so for me, this has been areally interesting kind of like,
there's another layer forcuriosity around it. Not that
that's helped me be any moreknowledgeable, but it certainly
(08:56):
is added another layer ofperiodicity.
Vanessa Caruso (08:59):
Definitely.
Andy Withrow (09:02):
So what can you get into some of what you
learned going through theprocess?
Naomi Yeker (09:12):
Yeah, I mean, so basically, like for the Sabbath
meals, we would gather at a Vonshouse and sometimes most of the
time we would all kind ofcontribute to the meal and then
there was different prayers andkind of rhythms that we did. One
(09:33):
of which was we read the KurdishI don't know if I'm saying that
right prayer together and thereis we pour wine and there was
something to pray during thattime and light two candles, one
for remembrance and sorbents ofSabbath and then we bless each
other, go around the circle andbless each other. And then we
(09:54):
would have hollow bread,sometimes just garlic loaf,
whatever, and take him to useand to go around the circle and
talk about when aspect of ourweek that we would relive
because it was so good.
Vanessa Caruso (10:07):
Wow. Yeah.
Naomi Yeker (10:09):
So I really loved all the all the elements,
really. But the first one thatstuck out was the stuck out was
the blessing each other, Ithink, because it was a group of
people that I didn't actuallyknow all that well. And there
was just something kind of likeuncomfortable and a bit unusual
about like, looking intosomeone's eyes besides you, and
(10:31):
what do we say, May you be happyand at peace on the Sabbath?
It's quite simple. But there wassomething I just really enjoyed
about saying that out loud, andthen receiving that from
somebody. And I know, it mightseem sort of for a second,
though, some people don't likethe passing of the piece or
whatever. But it felt like maybejust because new and a bit
(10:53):
uncomfortable, but neat. Like Ijust really received from that.
Vanessa Caruso (10:59):
Wow. So it wasn't a spontaneous blessing.
Naomi Yeker (11:02):
No, I think you could grow into that. But we're
sort of beginner stages.
Vanessa Caruso (11:07):
So you turn to the person on your right. Yeah.
And and say this, Yeah, minethese lines, and they would and
then they would receive it. Andthen they would turn and say
Yes, exactly. Yeah. Beautiful.
Yeah. What was the line again,
Naomi Yeker (11:20):
may be happy and at peace on this Sabbath. Sounds
nice. Yeah.
Yvonne (11:24):
In the Jewish tradition, the fathers, the children are at
the table. And we didn't havethat experience with our Sabbath
meals. But maybe, well, we did,actually. Because anyways,
that's another story. But in theJewish tradition, the children
are also at the Sabbath table,of course, and the fathers all
took turns would bless thechildren. And that was a very
consistent process of blessing.
And I actually think there issomething about that the women
(11:48):
in the Jewish tradition play amuch greater role around the
around the rituals that happen,they light the candles, and they
just some of the parents, butit's the father that blesses the
children. So it's kind of a nicelittle role reversal in some
ways, and yet, very much likethe Old Testament stories of,
you know, the father blessingthe the sons and all that kind
(12:09):
of thing. So I, I kind of lookforward to the day when that is
part of some of our Sabbathpractices. But a rich thing to
do for our kids today.
Vanessa Caruso (12:22):
Yeah. To look them in the eye and bless them
like that. Weekly. Be cool.
Yeah.
Andy Withrow (12:29):
That's hard to do.
As you point out, it's like it'suncomfortable. I think it's
something about that, that'sdifferent. It's in the in the
sort of growing up in the churchor the Christian subculture,
it's easier to I'll pray for youor let me pray for you. But to
actually looks on there, andit's like, speak to them, where
it's a different dynamic. And wedo like at, baptisms, we usually
(12:50):
have like a matriarchal orpatriarchal blessing. But no
matter how much how muchinstruction you give, it's so
easily reverts to prayer. I findit Yeah, it's a prayer. Blessing
is speaking to the child yourwords, in the name in the Name
of God in the name of Jesus.
(13:12):
Wow, that's a different thing.
Yeah, I think it's just socounterintuitive for us in or
out of practice, or even some ofthat. The power of it is yeah,
we're a bit shy of that's kindof a fascinating dynamic.
Naomi Yeker (13:25):
It's interesting. I feel like with the blessing,
usually keep your eyes open, oris prayer. You close your eyes.
There's something about thatintimacy. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Andy Withrow (13:37):
Yeah, that's just a lot more comfortable than
looking even sad. I like May Godbless you, and make this happen
in your life. And maybe this inthis level, isn't it? Yeah.
Yvonne (13:50):
We have to remember that Jesus practice the Sabbath. So
these these little traditionsthat we do maybe have evolved
over the years, but at the sametime, there were practices that
Jesus was doing like a blessing,which I suspect he was doing.
Yeah. And so when we do thesethings, now with a real sense of
this is this is an imitation ofJesus, then you begin to deepen
(14:13):
what you're doing. I feel likeit's a much deeper experience
for me when I think that Jesusmay have done this, I'm
participating in something Jesusmay have done doesn't make me
Jesus, but it sure makes me feela little bit closer to him in
terms of that culture doesn'tseem quite so distant for me.
Anyway, it was that was a reallyinteresting we did have one of
(14:35):
our Sabbath meals as a picnic.
So we went for a nature walk andthen we came back and we did a
little bit of lit the candlesand did a little bit of the
Saudi goldstream. Now one of theparks out here, and in doing
that, it was interesting therewe had children. And then we did
that but instead of doing it,and it was a little, it was a
new group of people. New totallyto Sab. With many of them, it
(14:59):
was a new experience. Butinstead of doing it all the way
around, we just turn to someonenext to us. But you could feel a
little bit of theuncomfortableness from some of
them. And yet they rested in it.
Like there is something aboutspeaking of blessing that is
uncomfortable. But once you doit, it is as you say, you you.
(15:20):
There's something soft about it.
It's not a harsh, and it's not.
The words are not uncomfortableto say, yeah. You know, and
feel. So it was really aninteresting experience.
Naomi Yeker (15:33):
Yeah. That was one of my favorite things, I have
more, but do you want to goahead.
I also liked how there's anidea, one of their ideas in the
material is to have a Sabbathbox, I never actually got to the
box place, but I'm curious aboutit. But you have a box. And when
(15:55):
you come for the meal, peopleput like their phones and their
wallets and their keys. And youtake a little moment to like,
write out things that might beon your mind or to do lists, and
you put it in the box as you'rekind of like setting it aside.
And you cover your clocks, sothat you're not paying attention
to time. And yeah, there wasjust something so neat about
(16:17):
like having my phone off havingmy watch off. And you're just
kind of going you're enjoyingthe evening without any sense of
like, wanting to go home becausethere's nothing you have to get
home for because the next day isjust a day of rest. So it's like
if you're tired, you go home.
And if you're not, then you stayand enjoy. Which was just Yeah,
it was just so fun to have kindof like that. Freedom in that.
(16:37):
And you're just like that. Ithink it makes you more present
in the evening. Because you'renot paying attention to the time
or people you're texting orwhatever.
Yvonne (16:50):
Once we did do one sent when the cover. Yeah, yeah, we
didn't do the notes. But we didput the cell phones into a box,
which was and I kind of toldeverybody ahead of time, that
was what we were moving towards.
And I did cover all my clocks inthe house. So cool. And so it
was really cool. And then we sopeople came in and then I will
talk a little bit about that.
(17:14):
Because it led to some reallyinteresting conversation, a
couple of things came up when Isaid to them, okay, so you don't
have watches, you don't havetime. If you're tired in the
evening goes really short, andeverybody's just tired. They
want to go home that says whatyou really need. So that's okay,
if the night goes long, and it'slike wee hours in the morning,
it says that's what we need. Solike, I don't really care, like
(17:35):
the time is irrelevant. Sabbathis really around listening to
your body and your rhythms.
Anyway, all that to say so theyentered into it, except one
person who told me later, Ididn't know about putting the
cell phones in the boxes. Andshe said, What was really
interesting to me was that asthe evening went on, and I
realized no one had pulled outtheir cell phone to fact check.
(17:58):
We got into really deep biblicalconversations. And you could see
people's minds just were tryingto find a scripture. And if
they'd had their cell phone,they could have only looked it
up. And so there was a lot ofreally deep spiritual
conversation, but there was nointerruption of the phone. Wow.
And she said it was so everybodywas so present. And that was
(18:20):
her, her observation of us justsimply not having a cell phone
at the table. So parents outthere who say to your kids leave
your cell phone away from thedinner table, you know,
obviously, you know, there'ssome real reasons for trying to
do that more and more. Yeah. Iwill also say cell phones are
the biggest challenge for me onSabbath. In what way being
(18:43):
present and available to others.
Vanessa Caruso (18:51):
So do you mean being distracted by the phone on
Sabbath and it takes yourpresence away from others or
it's hard to be present topeople if you're if you're not
on your phone? It means
Yvonne (18:59):
that my family don't practice Sabbath don't
understand Sabbath so they stillneed to contact me yeah and
sometimes it's the only way ofconnecting yeah you know elderly
parents yes. A granddaughter whojust sometimes a little more
needy and so wanting to bepresent your cell phone is on
well if it's on it's alsobecomes a distraction for other
(19:21):
purposes and reasons so it's itjust Yeah, and everybody I've
almost there exceptions butalmost everyone I've read in
recent years who practiceSabbath express that is probably
one of the biggest challenges issetting that off and the side
Vanessa Caruso (19:37):
yeah, because you have to view your whole
world kind of set it off is thefeeling Yeah, well family or
it's the contact
Yvonne (19:44):
that the cell phone is the way of contacting yet
another and so we don't havelandlines anymore. Yeah. So it
is discomforting? Yeah. To knowthat if someone has an emergency
pastors talk about this. Yeah.
And how do they handle Sabbath?
So maybe? Yeah, talk about that.
Andy Withrow (20:06):
Nobody owes me for an emergency. Not true. Almost
true. Oh, really? No, I don't,I'd say a typical, I think I
think that's a function of theculture of our church in a good
in a good way is because of theway that we're structured.
There's a lot of many pastors inthe community. So someone would
call somebody actuallyconnecting on a Sunday in a
(20:28):
smaller group at theneighborhood table, or, or so.
Vanessa Caruso (20:34):
I can't believe covering clocks is a thing. I've
never lived without, like anawareness of time. Like that.
And it it strikes me it takessome planning, like you have to
have a margin around that timein order to truly cover the
(20:54):
clocks and like, kind of have ahave an inner clock. Yeah. For
like, what do I need to do rightnow instead of looking
externally to say I need to dothis by this time, or I need to
be here by then. So that'spretty radical in itself.
Yvonne (21:11):
I just love the topic of time is now Oh, my gosh,
Vanessa Caruso (21:16):
I do to
Yvonne (21:18):
clean my greatest. And Naomi knows, I was gonna talk
about this, just waiting for theopportunity. Because, for me the
study of Sabbath, the greatestand most kind of get the hairs
back on the on the back of myneck to stand up was really when
I started to really read abouthow Sabbath came to be so God
(21:39):
creates, creates, and on theseventh day, he finishes the
blood work, and then he rests.
And He sanctifies, or thisperiod of time, so not a
mountain, not a creature, not aperson, it is time, and he
creates it and makes it holy.
And so I have really, I haven'tfound a good writer on the
(22:01):
construct of time and holiness.
But Abraham, Joshua Hescheldon't get his name, right. He's
a Jewish writer, and he has alot to say about time. And he's
often quoted for some of theconstructs around time, and
saying that really God createdand sanctified the Sabbath made
it holy, it is holy, whether weenter it into it or not. So
(22:23):
there is this holy period oftime that God has created, and
we enter into it. So for me, Istarted to think about okay, so
time is what the first thing Godmade holy was time. And it's
this like, thing without power,nobody can control it, nobody
owns it, nobody can make you getmore or less of it. It is like
this really crazy kind of thingthat we don't truly understand
(22:48):
even from a physics or any otherkind of way of looking at it.
And so there's that piece of itthat I really found quite
fascinating. And so I've reallybeen looking at time, and why a
period of time and what is to bedone in that period of time. If
it's holy. What do we do withit's more than resting and
(23:12):
ceasing work, right? And it'snot going to church necessarily,
that might be part of it. Buthow do we create a period of
time? How do we keep it holy?
How do we honor that holiness.
And so I've just, I think I'mstill mulling that over a lot in
my own mind. I mean, I've gotsome answers and some ideas. And
(23:34):
I've read a lot and everybodyhas some real constructs. But I
kind of liken it to Communion.
We always think somethinghappens when you take the bread
and wine and there's lots oftheological perspectives on
that. But I also think thatsimilarly, there's something
that happens in the in thesanctified time that we call
(23:55):
Sabbath that we are missing outon, we just see it as another
day of the week. Yeah, but it isholy. And so this holy time, God
is looking for us to show up andmeet us there and to be present
with him in it. And there issomething there that we I have
been missing. So yeah.
Naomi Yeker (24:16):
And there's something that I really liked
about the Sabbath meals in thatway is that it's kind of like
this. You have all these peoplehelping you to remember that
each week and like there's sortof a bit of ceremony going into
it with the candles and theprayers and like, because on
your own it's so easy to kind ofjust forget, at least for me,
Yvonne (24:33):
or slide into it. Yeah, yeah. Slide out of it. Yeah.
Vanessa Caruso (24:37):
Wow. That is radical. I love the topic of
time to so much.
Yvonne (24:44):
Share your writers with
Vanessa Caruso (24:47):
that we should in the show notes. I see your
mod ridden book that I haven'tread on the table. Is that one
of your favorites.
Yvonne (24:53):
It's my latest Okay, and I'm just kind of trying to kind
of do a lot a lot of broadStroke reading. What I liked
about hers is everybody hastheir own construct of ceasing,
resting, delighting andworshiping, and she uses the
term embracing, and she talks alot about intentionality. And so
(25:16):
I've been talking a lot aboutintentionality. So she's really
speaking to me because I reallythink that that's kind of the
key to Sabbath is that there'ssome intentionality Yeah, in the
way we enter into it. And thetime that we spend, she does
that image talks about feasting.
And so the term delighting isgood, but I think her feasting
is kind of replacing worshiping,which is interesting, or maybe,
I think that I think that and Ihaven't totally finished the
(25:39):
book. But it's this idea ofSabbath being a celebration. And
so in the Jewish tradition,Sabbath comes to you as a bride.
So as a bride comes to thegroom, there is the setting
aside of work, this is settingaside of, of troubles and
whatever might be weighingheavily on your mind, and you
celebrate. And so this idea offeasting that she enters into
(26:00):
and she, they're really shortchapters are easy reads, but she
talks about feasting on theinternal with music with boot
beauty, with food with affectionand festival. So like just this
idea of Sabbath isn't this kindof somber occasion, it's
actually quite the opposite.
It's really as a celebration.
And so I was really struck bythe term feasting and thinking,
(26:24):
how do we feast on God becausereally, all Sabbath is doing is
drawing us closer to God andfeasting on him. And, and we do
that through worship and allthese other things, but it's
this, it's a celebration as muchas it is reflection, and we all
enter into that differentlydepending on how we're wired,
(26:44):
you know, intellectually, withmusic with nature, I think it's
just important to remember thatI can't tell you how to do
Sabbath. There's some thingsthat might help you practices,
but it's, it's very uniquelydesigned.
Naomi Yeker (27:01):
Yeah. Reminds me to have, I think it was the quote
from your fasting lent episode.
Or you're talking about, therewas a quote, where we, we don't
actually enjoy feasting as muchor as fully because we're not
fasting in the same way and, andhow we're kind of oversaturated
with everything every day. Andso there's not sort of a special
(27:23):
occasion and remind me of youmentioning how it can feel kind
of expensive, or like a lot tobe having nice wine every every
week and a lot of fancy food andhaving people over, but habits
kind of made you rethink alittle bit like maybe having
simpler meals during the week sothat you can have this more
special day, once a week. Andjust in other ways, too. That
(27:47):
makes me think of how we Yeah,are kind of like overindulging.
Yeah. Other ways. And thenthere's no kind of heartedly all
the time. Yeah, yeah. Anyways,so that's kind of also a theme
on my mind.
Vanessa Caruso (28:03):
Yeah, I love that. I don't remember who said
this. It might have been onthat. Practicing the way podcast
but someone said people whopractice Sabbath live all seven
days differently. Yeah. Andthat, that reminds me of it.
Like when you do set aside timeand there's intentionality and
feasting, that it affects therest of your week. It's not just
(28:26):
about that day, the fruits of itare kind of lived out, which is
also the idea. I think you'vewe've talked about this before.
Walter Brueggemann talks aboutit in his book Sabbath as
resistance that there's thistheory that the fourth
commandment? So there's 10commandments, the first three
are about God about a God who isnot anxious who rest who, who
(28:47):
doesn't worry about the fullfunctioning of creation. So the
first three are about God andnaming God is that and then the
fourth one is you'll keep theSabbath holy. And then the last,
I don't know what my math is sixor so are about how to make sure
everyone can rest. Relationship,yeah, how to be how to be in
(29:09):
relationship. And he says thatthe key, maybe the fourth
commandment is key. It allows usto keep the other six so we
don't have to cut it. We don'thave to reduce relationships to
greed or sexual exploitation orwhatever it is, if if we learn
kind of the secret of Sabbath,so that reminds me to have will
(29:33):
live all of the commandmentsdifferently. In a way if we can
figure out grace, which is whatSabbath kind of represents to
me, is like an economy of grace.
Yeah.
Yvonne (29:45):
Cool. Thanks. Studying the Sabbath for me has just
really rounded out my Christianfaith like it just there's so
much about it, because to kindof further that, what you were
talking about Walter Brueggemannsaid is that really it is around
the dependence on God. So thevery first thing he does in that
Exodus 20 Chapter is he reallyis saying, you are under
(30:06):
Pharaoh, now you're under me.
And it is going to bedifferently. You're going to
depend on me, I'm not going todepend on you, I'm not going to
put my year you're not going toeffort for me. I am, I am your
provider and depend on me. And Ijust, I think that's the other
thing in this culture, where wefeel so self dependent for our
next meal for our next this are,how are we going to pay rent?
(30:29):
How are we going to do this? Howare we going to do that? And
really, the whole SabbathKeeping is the notion that I can
leave things undone the box, youput your undone list into the
box, and for one day, you letGod hold that list and figure
out what how it's going to getdone. Even that. It's just it's
amazing. So that reshapes yourwhole week. It really does.
(30:50):
Yeah, so I, I've just been, thewhole study has been like, why
haven't I learned this? I'm old.
And so I'm Why haven't I beentaught this and learn this?
Yeah. And I really feel likeit's been a huge mess in my life
an opportunity to, to learn thatdependence on God in a new in a
(31:13):
fresh way.
Andy Withrow (31:15):
Seems like such a great example of something that
has to be more practice thantaught, like, it's not so much
use the to dues of it, it'slike, it's actually a rhythm
that you have to Yes, like yousaid, experiment, like, I'm just
gonna experiment to see whatthis is, as opposed to just
here's how you do the Sabbath.
Totally, which is hard to do. Inour moment,
Yvonne (31:42):
I kind of liken it to growing a garden. And a gardener
will tell you that there'salways next year. And so if it
doesn't come up, if it doesn'twork, if it doesn't happen,
there's always next year. And soeven for me, like my Sabbath
practices have beeninconsistent, even though I've
said I was going to set it inpractice them. I've had some
really bad moments where thingshave gotten really sour on me.
(32:05):
And I thought, well, that wasreally on Sabbath, like, are not
very good Sabbath. But there'salways next Sabbath. And so I
think that that too, is like yousay, it's, it's a practice, it's
a rhythm. It's a saying, I'mseeking God, you know, it's an
attempt to seek God. And you cankeep doing that next week. Yeah,
and the next week, and the nextweek, and you can fail and,
(32:27):
like, doesn't matter what thisis about, it's about the heart.
And it's nice
Naomi Yeker (32:31):
that it's kind of Yes, sort of there for you each
week. Like, you can be like, youknow, in a time of sorrow or a
time of, you know, greathappiness, and it kind of can be
for you in that season, what itneeds to be, like a time for
those space for those feelings,or Yeah, sharing Joy anyways, so
(32:52):
just need that. It's just thisbuilt in, built in rhythm. I
think in the in the practicingthe way material, it talks about
how the seven day week is theone thing that is not related to
the stars or anything like it's,they've, it could be changed if
we wanted it to be and I think Idon't remember when at some
point in history, they tried toextend it to a 10 day week. And
(33:14):
like productivity actually wentdown because people like
couldn't rest as they needed to.
Not that we're always using thatrhythm. But so it just seems
like this, there's actuallysomething to that, that rhythm
that's important for us tofunction and flourish. Just
interesting.
Vanessa Caruso (33:33):
Yeah.
Yvonne (33:36):
It's been so much fun.
The meals have been just a realsweet spot in the week just to
kind of connect with people atthat level. And there are
churches that are doing this asa church and have created
rhythms so that the pastoralstaff actually get Sabbath and
do it have kind of figured outhow to do it. I think that it's
(33:58):
just an opportunity for peopleto set aside some time to just
kind of reconnect with God in adifferent way. And I think at
the table, we end Sabbath with ameal on Sunday nights. Because
we come together, it's a reallydelightful way of ending our
Sabbath. And, you know, maybe weshould talk about how we
(34:22):
communicate that as part of ourour Sunday night is because many
not everybody Sabbath on Sunday,there are a few that do
Saturday, and that's, you know,Friday, Saturday or however they
do it. But it is kind of anacknowledgment that that has
transpired and it's good.
Andy Withrow (34:43):
Yeah, though, that would be great to start think
about those things. Maybequestion I have is what's the if
anything else on that listthat's like, yeah, I need to
share this really great thing Ilearned or thing that happened
or, or whatever, now's the timeto do highlight
Vanessa Caruso (35:03):
or learning ask another question. Or reflection.
Andy Withrow (35:07):
Now he has furrowed brow she's thinking.
Naomi Yeker (35:11):
I mean, there's I feel like there's always more.
So I feel like you should askyour question. Well, I was
Andy Withrow (35:16):
going to ask them.
So what's next after becauseyou've kind of done this thing
like we've committed to march oryou know, I think you just
finished up just this week,right? Yeah. Your Tuesday
nights. So what do you see nextfor you, maybe in relation to
our community? What are somethoughts or ideas or
imaginations?
Naomi Yeker (35:35):
Well, we've talked about maybe doing once a month
Sabbath dinners. Avans gotanother one planned. So keeping
it going in some regard, butyeah, I'm still thinking through
through that myself. I wouldlove to keep keep it communal in
some aspects. But it's also itis a lot of organizing and
(36:00):
stuff. So finding the balance ofthat and like having every
Saturday night put aside islike, who quite a commitment if,
forever. So, yeah, I'm stillfiguring it out. But like, but
want to continue in somecapacity? What about you,
Yvonne?
Yvonne (36:17):
Well, I'm committed to doing Sabbath for all of 2023.
Right? Okay. Having read it, andstudied it, and the more I study
it, I really do feel like it's acommandment that I've missed in
my life. So I will continue itin some form. And honor it to
the degree that I can honor itwith all the other commitments
(36:39):
that get stacked on but thoseother commitments are usually
people commitments, which isreally still part of practicing
the Sabbath. It's just a matterof keeping that balanced with
time for myself to enter deeplyinto time with God. And I think
that that's stuff that I'm stilltrying to work out in my own
head, we're going to try andcontinue to do Sabbath meals one
Saturday, a month at my house,whether it moves to more or not,
(37:03):
I entertained quite a bit. Soit's not unusual for me to have
people over on a Saturday night,I just have to decide how much
of this for people who don't,who aren't part of a fellowship,
who might find that reallyweird. My son came over, he's
not a practicing Christian, hecame over he goes when we become
Jewish, because he saw thecandles. And I'm like, Oh, you
(37:24):
have no idea. And so I thinkthat there's just some ways of
trying to figure out, those whoI read, who have been practicing
Sabbath all their lives, or formajority of their lives, the
people as they enter into theirlives, see that as part of their
rhythm, and it's not questioned.
But for those of us that areentering into Sabbath practice,
and haven't been doing it for along period of time, there is a
(37:44):
whole bunch of unlearning forpeople around you. And you're
really not adding something toyour week, you're really trying
to find ways to undo. So I don'tthink that this is necessarily a
quick and easy rhythm to enterinto your life. It takes some
real thought. And I think givingmyself a year to kind of see how
I can make this work is probablywas wisdom I didn't have but
(38:08):
just got lucky on are blessedwith because I certainly I
really didn't realize howdifficult it was going to be to
maintain.
Naomi Yeker (38:19):
Yeah. Yeah, that reminds me, can I give four
helpful reminders? Yeah. Thatthey're not from me, they're
from the material we were using.
But the first one is to startsmall. So maybe, like 24 hours
of a Sabbath is a lot to startoff with right away. So you can
kind of try it a morning orwhatever, something that's
(38:39):
approachable, and then trying tothink subtraction, not addition.
So it can feel like just anotherthing you're adding into a busy
schedule. But if you try andthink about what could be, you
know, taken out, yeah, ratherthan added in, and then you get
out what you put in. So if likeI have a tendency to sort of
(39:01):
like dip my toes and things andtry it out a little bit and
you're, you're less likely toget a lot out of it if you're
not sort of doing it with yourwhole heart, I guess. And then
they talk about remembering theJ curve. So usually like
something will get a little bitworse before it actually gets
better. So try and stick it outfor a little while. And that
there's no formation withoutrepetition. So spiritual
(39:25):
formation is slow and deep andcumulative. So it's not gonna
we're not gonna figure this outover our like four week lens
practice. It kind of gives youtalked about it kind of getting
us like a map for the journeyahead and maybe people that will
help you as you figure it out.
But yeah, it's kind of it'll bea long probably lifelong thing
(39:46):
continuing to learn.
Vanessa Caruso (39:48):
Well, just on top of that are in addition to
those Yeah, anything either ofyou have found personally that
helps you keep a Sabbath or planfor it like any Just real life
things for you on the front end,that enable you that make the
possibility of Sabbath thisSaturday, more, more likely.
Naomi Yeker (40:12):
I mean, we've talked about like, the just the
practical things of like groceryshopping and meal planning and
stuff ahead of time, which cankind of feel like filling up
your earlier days. But keepingin mind for me, I kind of think
of it as like, I'm sort ofpreparing like a gift for my
future self. And when I think ofit like that, like, Oh, this is
(40:33):
worth it, like, I want to getthese things done earlier, so
that I have this time and likethere's food made for me, and,
and kind of keeping in mind,like my broader girl goal of
wanting to, like engage with Godin a deeper way and grow.
Myself. So, yeah, and then Ithink that it kind of helps, for
(40:56):
me at least, like prioritize abit like if I want to have this
as a priority, then, you know,you've mentioned to you about
and like maybe I won't watch ashow this night so that I can
prepare things or communicatearound now so that I'll have
this day. And that was one ofthe things I learned from the
digital minimalism thing waslike that. I actually did have a
(41:17):
bit more time than I realizedjust sort of like, all these
little moments. Yeah, that sortof add up. And then if you are
not watching it, it kind of liketakes up your whole life. Yeah.
Vanessa Caruso (41:30):
Oh, that's so helpful.
Yvonne (41:32):
I will say one, I'll tell one story on myself. So as
I was practicing this, before westarted to do the Sabbath meals,
I too, started in Advent. And sobut after Christmas, sometime,
Jim and I were trying to get awhole bunch of stuff done in an
afternoon, and he was drivingthe car, and it was getting
close to Sabbath. And I had onemore stop to make before I had
(41:54):
all my Sabbath things together.
And then it was going to beSabbath for me starts at six
o'clock. So it was about 430 inthe afternoon. And we were
trying to get I can't rememberwhat it was something that I
needed to get. And we'd gone totwo stores, and they didn't have
it. And I was off to the thirdone. And we were driving down
the road. And Jim was driving onmy husband, and he's driving and
he's going like 10 kilometersunder the speed limit. And I'm
(42:18):
going I'm trying really hard tobe, you know, not the drive, and
not show my impatience. I said,Jim, I think the speed limit is
50k here. Yeah, yeah. Do youthink you could kind of maybe
speed it up, like, maybe get alittle closer to the speed
limit? And he's like, yeah, sohe's like, up to like, 45
(42:40):
kilometers an hour now. Andlike, I am like screaming inside
my head that I'm not going toget to Sabbath and get all these
things that I need to do so thatI can get to Sabbath. And
finally he gets up to 50. Youknow, like I've mentioned him a
long time ago. 50. And he goes,Man, this Sabbath is really
stressful. And so I do thinkthat I think in our practice of
(43:05):
Sabbath, we if we aren't planfulwe can get to that headspace of
just creating stress foreverybody around us in order
that we might sit, of course, wedid get home and we did sit down
and we had a glass of wine. AndI before we had to go and we
were going to join somebody fora meal. And I said, Isn't this
lovely? You know, this is thisis the reward is sitting on the
(43:26):
deck enjoying a glass of wine.
So I think that there's that andso I do think Sabbath practices
and in things that make iteasier is the reward. But it
also for me, the last time wehad last couple of times we were
practicing Sabbath meal was Iwas anticipating being with
(43:47):
people and like I have companyall the time. But there was a
different kind of anticipatoryfeeling that I had, as I went
looking forward to that Sabbathmeal. I felt more like it was
not me hosting, but it was Ireally, I into I don't know why
it felt different. But I reallyfelt like it was more a group
(44:08):
coming together. Not me hostingpeople into my home. I don't
know why it felt different. I'venot been doing it long enough to
explain that. But it did feelmore of a participatory kind of
feeling. And if that continues,that's what's going to drive me
forward. Yeah. And then mySunday mornings are quiet walks
(44:29):
and doing other kinds of thingsthat I look forward to so it's,
it becomes something that isworthy of entering into anyway.
Wow. Kind of you too is thewalks right? Yeah.
Vanessa Caruso (44:47):
Naomi's walks by this was great. Yeah, it was. It
was great. Oh, wow. Look at us.
Andy Withrow (44:58):
I don't know about you. Thank God. guess
Naomi Yeker (45:03):
God we didn't let you guys talk man. That was
Vanessa Caruso (45:05):
the planet
Andy Withrow (45:07):
guests on the show. So this was this was the
plan.
Vanessa Caruso (45:10):
Yeah, thank you for
Andy Withrow (45:12):
for experimenting with Sabbath and then coming and
sharing with us
Vanessa Caruso (45:24):
Yep, thanks everyone. Bye. Thank you. Bye
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