February 24, 2023 • 42 mins
Vanessa and Andy return with Bear with Me's annual Welcome to Lent Episode.
Links mentions:
Get Vanessa's Lent Guide here!
Vanessa's Blog on Lent - Blooming in the Desert
Christine Valters Paintner’s Lent 2023 Retreat/Course
"Just Lent" Devotional Recommendation by Vanessa
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Vanessa Caruso (00:01):
Welcome to the bear with me podcast where we
aim to integrate belief andpractice in the Christian life
Andy Withrow (00:18):
Hey, Andy back already happy Lent. Yeah.
Vanessa Caruso (00:21):
Bless it. Len, is that better?
Andy Withrow (00:24):
Bless it lent.
Vanessa Caruso (00:25):
You were just talking about how fine Ash
Wednesday was. That was
Andy Withrow (00:29):
that was off the chair podcast. I was solemnly
happy. Okay. No, it was. It wasin reference. We had our Ash
Wednesday gathering last nightat the table. And we had friends
from open gate friends fromchurch of our Lord, but until a
table came down, so it was justfun. It was really fun. It was
fun to see all those people inone place. Yeah,
Vanessa Caruso (00:53):
it was neat.
Like a reunion. Yeah.
Andy Withrow (00:56):
But it was all dark and gloomy and songs. Were
rich and nice and sad.
Vanessa Caruso (01:05):
Okay. That was that was a Yeah, yeah.
Andy Withrow (01:08):
Yeah. In the best way. Okay, good Out in the best
way. So, yeah.
Vanessa Caruso (01:12):
And we're back.
Yeah, we're
Andy Withrow (01:13):
back for very long.
Vanessa Caruso (01:15):
We're gonna take a little break. We tried. And
that land? It's just I justfound myself wanting to talk
about it with someone.
Andy Withrow (01:23):
Yeah. And here we are. We're gonna talk about lent
today. On this second day ofLent, for us,
Vanessa Caruso (01:29):
yes. Great. So I have some thoughts. Andy, I
thought I could just share andat any point, you can just kind
of interact with your ownthoughts. Great. I love that.
Yes. Okay. So let comes aroundevery year. For anybody who's
listening to this podcast, theyprobably know what Len is. But
(01:53):
just to recap, it's the 40 dayor six week period, beginning on
Ash Wednesday, yesterday, andending the day before Easter.
And it began in the early churchas a way to prepare for Easter.
And the number 40 brings to mindJesus's withdrawal into the
desert, which happened after Hisbaptism and before His public
(02:18):
ministry. But there's also the40 days and nights of flooding
during Noah's time. Good one,which I call back like thinking
about the Ark as a forced Lent.
Andy Withrow (02:32):
It's like a wooden box out of that before
Vanessa Caruso (02:34):
limitations you only have enough food. Yeah. And
supplies for a certain amount oftime. Good point. It's, it's
like a wilderness experience.
You're like,
Andy Withrow (02:43):
that's really fascinating, isn't it?
Vanessa Caruso (02:45):
I think there's something more there. Okay. So
yeah, Jesus's 40 days in thedesert is the most common
association with land, butthere's the 40 days and nights
of flooding. There's 40 years ofIsraelites wandering in the
desert. And in each case, these40 represent a journey of
temptation, suffering, orwandering before liberation, new
(03:08):
life or deliverance, or publicministry. Yeah. Isn't that cool?
Andy Withrow (03:13):
Yeah. I was just thinking how, in one of at least
one of the versions I think ofthe of Jesus temptation story,
it says he was with the wildanimals.
Vanessa Caruso (03:24):
Yes, it does.
That's so true. Is thatreminding you of the wilderness?
The Israelites time in thewilderness?
Andy Withrow (03:32):
No. Oh, it's reminding me of the 40 days Shut
up in the ark. Oh, my gosh. Witha bunch of animals. Yes. Anyway,
that another podcast, okay.
Yeah. So sometimes, yeah,sometimes we'll unpack the
connections.
Vanessa Caruso (03:47):
I bet there are more like the dove knows,
Andy Withrow (03:54):
we better stop okay, this will get hijacked.
Vanessa Caruso (03:59):
Okay. Lens means spring. So it derives from our
word meaning long. Here in thenorthern hemisphere, it does not
feel like spring. But as we movetowards Easter, it will start to
so one way to understand thatdepending on where you live is
that the days are lengthening.
In Latin. The word Lent meansslowly. So whether we're talking
(04:24):
about to lengthen or to slow usdown, that's a really great clue
for me about what latent lentmeans. It kind of stretches us
in some different ways, or itslows us down. I like to think
of Lent, kind of loosening ourgrasp on some things. Some of
(04:45):
our compulsions or our habitsare things that we take for
granted. So when I think of Lentas like stretch or lengthen, I
think it's making space betweenme and some of my habits are
composed Oceans, or when I thinkof Lent as slow, I'm thinking
it's waking me up to what I cantake for granted. And it's like,
(05:05):
it's a season of intentionality.
So it's right kind of in theheart of winter here for us, in
North America, and it's anopportunity to grow spiritually
in a similar way that we mightplant seeds in a in a month or
(05:27):
two, that also hopefully cangrow and bloom after Easter.
What do you think about allthat?
Andy Withrow (05:39):
Yeah, it's it's overlapping with some of the
things I've been thinking aboutwith land as well. Associating
Lent with the desert. Just injust in the 40 days of, of Jesus
being in the desert, as youmentioned. And, and and thinking
(06:00):
about and I think I shared thison an episode or two ago about
Thomas Merton reading throughhis contemplative prayer. I
might have read a little bitfrom it, but it was just that
opening line of the desert isthe climate where prayer can
flower, right. And so thinkingof Lent, the season of Lent in
(06:25):
the Christian calendar, thechurch calendar, is kind of to
the rest of the year like adesert is to a larger ecosystem.
And Thomas Merton's reflectionon the desert is an invitation
for prayer to flower, we're awayfrom the securities of the city,
or the securities of ourtechnology, in the comforts of
(06:47):
all those things tie into thisidea. It helped, it helped me
just kind of give a bit of aframework for that. Slowing down
that a bit of finding a bit ofcritical distance between
something that I rely on a lot.
Yeah. Which could be Oh, bunchof different things. Right. So
(07:08):
that's why that's where it kindof that tradition of giving up
something for Lent comes it'snot just something we do,
because that's what everyonedoes, or what's always on
there's actually some, somewisdom and connection behind it
of this is a season a uniqueseason two. Just didn't, sir.
Give that space.
Vanessa Caruso (07:29):
Yeah, that's beautiful to think of the desert
as outside of the city. Likeit's, there's that critical
distance from the noise, thestatus quo, the routines, the
agendas. Yeah. And it's alsosparse, like I think of a desert
is more sparse. Yeah. Than acity. So there's, there's like a
(07:51):
some kind of forced simplicity,that you're talking about. Kind
of giving some space for thisflower to bloom that might only
bloom in the desert. Yeah.
Andy Withrow (08:04):
Yeah, and I think the the idea of Lent, or the
obser, observing of Lent, in,maybe in the North American
church has been on some parts ofit has sort of been not
celebrated as much because of,it's a bit of a, it can be seen
(08:24):
as a bit of a downer, yes. Maybenot as easily promotable as
other more festive times of theyear. Right. And but it's really
the wisdom of the tradition thathas put it in there every year,
for those who follow Jesus,because that's actually
(08:44):
following Jesus into the desertor into this confrontation with
the dark parts of life in theworld. And so this is an
invitation to actually follow ina meaningful way.
Vanessa Caruso (09:04):
I love that. So that reminds me of the fasting
portion of Lent, like followingJesus into this darker period of
his life and identifying withhim in it. It reminds me of some
of the fasting material you thatyou and I have talked about,
(09:24):
because a few years ago, you andI both fasted food through on
Fridays, during Lent. A coupleof years ago. Yeah, I don't
think it was last year, butmaybe the year before that. And
there is this tradition of, offasting and Lent, fasting
almsgiving. Justice, I thinkthese are all some of the
(09:45):
penitence, repentance. These aresome of the traditional ideas
behind Lent. And I remember thisis a side note but about ashes.
I remember reading that therewas a tradition of sitting and
ashes And that's what the wordCinderella means. It's a woman
who sits in ashes. And it was,it was a way of saying, there
(10:09):
are times in our life, that wecome to terms with our mortality
with our finitude with theprecarity of existence. So that
idea in the Bible of sackclothand ashes, it's, it's those
times when we, you know, kind ofsit with what has remained after
a fire has burned up what weknow or what we love. So, this
(10:36):
tradition of fasting one of myfavorite quotes for around
fasting is from Ronald rollHeiser. And what does he say,
never written down here. Oh, inliturgical terms, we fast before
we feast. In our time, westruggle with such paradoxes.
(10:57):
Many of our feasts fall flat,because there has been no
previous fast. And that has beenso true for me, like I snack all
day long. I don't, I am soaccustomed to getting what I
want, when I want it. Not justwith food, but food is just like
a very daily way for me to liveout that kind of constant
(11:21):
satiation I have, which is, Iknow, so privileged, you know,
that things are at my fingertipsaccess to information is that my
fingertips, snacks are at myfingertips, cravings are at my
fingertips. So I like the ideaof trusting going back to what
you said about this being agloomy time of year, kind of
(11:41):
trusting that it's an importanttime of year to trust that are,
many of our feasts do fall flat,because we don't, right, many of
us don't know what it's like togo without, or to have that
critical distance between whatwe think we need, what we
actually need. So that's socompelling to me about whatever
(12:03):
kind of fast lent might present,whether it is physical, food
related, or something else,which we can talk about in a
little bit. Yeah.
Andy Withrow (12:14):
Yeah. It made me think of this a lot of my own
personal reflection, that sameidea of just being in a time and
place where it's so easy to getall our needs and wants met
pretty quickly. Yeah. And, and,and I liked that meeting. But in
(12:37):
the, in the setting of thepurpose of Lent, which I think
in part is to follow Jesus intothe desert to follow Jesus into
some of the dark parts of hislife and ministry in the, in
the, in the world. That thoseexcesses, yeah, can be a way of
(12:59):
covering up that darkness, yes,denying it, of escaping it.
Whether that's from whetherthat's snacking all day, or
whether that's, you know,whatever, whatever thing helps
fill or distract me, yeah. Andland is an opportunity to put
some of those things away toopen ourselves up to the reality
(13:20):
of, of life in itsimperfections, and its its
brokenness, and its hardness,and offer to gather those things
up and offer them to God. Andthat's the invitation of land, I
think, is to take the darknessand brokenness of the world in
(13:42):
our life seriously, and, andbring them into the setting of
worship together. I love that,which is counterintuitive, maybe
for us, depending on how we grewup, or how our theology but
that's the like me that's thePsalms that's the whole Bible is
bringing is gathering the wholeself to God and the dark parts
(14:03):
so that he can do something withthem. But our I think our
tendency or intuition orreaction is to kind of cover
those up Yeah, or deny those orignore those or to put those at
a distance from ourselvesinstead of being exposed to them
and taking them seriously. Andseeing and trusting that God has
(14:26):
something good and strong enoughto do something about them.
Vanessa Caruso (14:30):
So beautiful. I love the like, gathering like
you're doing that you peoplecan't see it, but you're like
doing that with your hands likethis gathering motion and
bringing it into our worship.
That's such a beautiful idea. Itreminds me of the Pascal mystery
like I think of the very shortversion of the Pascal mystery is
life, death life. And justwanting to skip how many how
(14:55):
much I want to skip kind of thepassage through the The death
part. And what you're saying ismaking me think, no, what if we
take some time every year totrust that all that stuff that's
associated with death, pain,violence, mortality, brokenness,
sin. And we gather that up, itsounds like an offering, which
(15:18):
is the counterintuitive part. Itreminds me too, that I read an
article about Ramadan, becauseMuslims do 40 days of fasting
during Ramadan. And they don'teat or drink I, if I understand
correctly, from dawn until dusk,so depending on where you live
(15:39):
in the world, that could be like6am to 8pm. Yeah, no water, no
drinking, or eating during theday, so you can eat before and
then after. So I read aninterview with Lisa Sharon
Harper, who's this greatChristian activist in
Philadelphia, with an imam. Andhe talked about saying that the
(16:01):
blessing that they give forRamadan translates to a generous
Ramadan. Because they trust thattheir spiritual bounty from this
season of darkness of withdrawalof less and so that's what I
hear you talking about, liketrusting that there's a
(16:21):
spiritual bounty and gather upall this stuff. That's hard to
face.
Andy Withrow (16:27):
Yeah. And trusting the I'm hung up on the Lord's
Prayer, because that's whatwe're doing for Lent and sort of
been in but trusting that God isgoing to make the kingdom of
this world in it will become thekingdom of God. So that means
all the dark places have to beaddressed. All the injustice
have to be addressed andaccounted for and transformed.
(16:50):
And so if gotten this sense ofboth in connection to the Lord's
Prayer and to learn is that partof our Christian vocation or
work is to see and name the darkplaces and bring them before our
God in prayer. And trust in thatmaybe the offering sincerity he
(17:12):
will receive those in trance, dosomething with them. Yeah. And
and I think when for those of uswho have grown up maybe in a
tradition that did not hit lentvery well, or Ash Wednesday, or
Good Friday, and those sorts ofthings. I think for people who
come like to the table, forexample, at a Ash Wednesday or
(17:34):
Good Friday service, there's anew thing that happens like the
the the power and the connectionyou can feel when you bring
mourning as a act of worship iscounterintuitive, because we
tend we can tend to associateworship with positive feelings.
(17:58):
Yeah, connection to God withpositive feelings. But the
invitation is like no Take, takethe other things too. And bring
them in have that be a spacewhere God also interacts and
connects and love it. And thenyou've got a whole nother realm,
a lot of life that can now beentered into this relationship
(18:19):
and into this worship and intothis thing we call the Christian
life. A lot of life a lot oflife. You don't kindergarten and
it's counterintuitive. Stopcovering all that stuff up.
Yeah. And just allow it to beand sit with it. And have that
be an aspect of our worship andtrust.
Vanessa Caruso (18:36):
Yeah. Wow. I already am grateful for this
conversation as we head into thenext six weeks. Okay, let's just
keep going. And then and keeptalking. A quote, like, you
(18:58):
know, I get a newsletter fromAbbey of the arts, Christine
Valters painter. And she saidthat this Lent, she's, you know,
offering this invitation to aseries of non physical fast,
where we explore what it meansto fast from multitasking,
anxiety, rushing, holding it alltogether, planning and
(19:20):
certainty. And as communitythey're going to embrace
presence, abundance, slowness,tenderness, unfolding, and
mystery. So that was just like,you know, I read that a few days
ago in my email inbox and justthat was evocative to me, like,
wow, as a community. That's howthey've prepared to engage leant
(19:40):
together like they've named somethings that are just part there
in Ireland, you know, that arejust like part of their everyday
lives that they're going to dotogether. And that's one of the
things I appreciate about Len isthat it's not a season where we
just kind of observe our genericbrokenness and and generic
(20:01):
darkness, but we, the invitationis to bring it a little bit
closer to home and to customize,customize the lens journey for
ourselves. So, over the years,I've just loved kind of
collecting these creative faststhat people do, or creative
additions that they make totheir, to their lives, because
we're all just so different. Sosomething that might be a virtue
(20:25):
for me might be advice forsomebody else, you know, a go to
example is that I tend to wantto avoid conflict. Not everybody
is wired like that. So engagingintentionally, during Lent with
like, I'm not going to avoidconflict, you know, I'm not
gonna not do something becausemy son might get mad at me, or
(20:46):
I'm not gonna sidestep aconversation that I have like
opinions about because I justdon't want to deal with it.
Whereas someone else, that mightbe more of a vise, they might go
to conflict, right, way tooeasily and kind of reframing or
listening or biting their tonguemight be like a great discipline
for them. Yeah. So I love thatcustomization aspect of Lent
(21:09):
that we can bring it closer tohome. So I have a few of my
favorite ideas. But I want togive you a chance to respond to
any
Andy Withrow (21:18):
Yeah, no. Well, I was thinking about how I mean,
it makes sense that we're alldifferent. We're all
individuals. Yeah. God has spacefor each of those in that
discernment plays a role in, inour following, following God are
following Jesus into the desertto say, well, what is it that
(21:38):
God is, is saying, look, take alook at this thing. And yeah,
let's, let's put some criticaldistance between you in that
thing. And, oh, shoot, I hadanother thought it just flew
away from
Vanessa Caruso (21:52):
me. Was it about like, conflict or something?
Because, you
Andy Withrow (21:55):
know, I might, I might certainly add to it if it
comes up. But that was about it.
Well, that was kind of thething.
Vanessa Caruso (22:02):
The customization. So here are some
of my, that was a nicecustomization.
Andy Withrow (22:07):
So part, it seems to me that part of the desert
experience. I know, we'retalking metaphorically here and
like you could literally go outto a desert, be careful, make
plans, but this space givingslowing down giving even
critical space to recalibrateour senses to be become aware of
(22:33):
what are the things that I'mover dependent on or even just
dependent on that just need alittle bit of a distance or that
break or that putting offeringthat before? Before God? Yeah,
sort of thing. Seems like that'sgot to be a piece of, of even
the Jesus 40 days in the desertof what did he like? What did he
(22:55):
see that? Yes, that that timeafforded him? Right?
Vanessa Caruso (23:00):
Yes. That's so good. I love recalibrating our
senses. And you keep using theword critical, which I think is
it's like critical thinking notcritical as a negative, but
there's like this focus,
Andy Withrow (23:13):
and wasn't like yeah, go distance is a an
important distance. Yeah. Yeah,
Vanessa Caruso (23:20):
yeah, it's measured. It's like what a
critical distance is kind oflike, it's not vague. It's not
generic. Okay, so that's real,congruent with what I've what
excites me. So some of the someof the fasts or additions that
I've liked over the years, afriend of ours gave up colorful
clothing. So she just wore likeblack, beige and gray or
(23:45):
something. And she's an Herstyle is part of her identity.
And so she wanted to see what itwould be like to put some
critical distance between herand something she does every
day, which is like, figure outthe great thing she's going to
wear. I have a friend this yeardoing the artists way for Lent,
which is that really amazingcreativity workbook. And there's
(24:08):
a Christian version called theartists rural that I've done,
which is beautiful. And it'slike, every day there are little
assignments to do. So that's afun one. One I'm famous for have
lent one right, my own in my ownlittle world is that to give
applying when you're freelance.
That's right. And that wasreally rich. Not that I stopped
(24:29):
lying completely. But I becameaware of all the times that I
wasn't telling the full truth,and nothing about the truth.
Yeah. And so that was,
Andy Withrow (24:44):
yeah, retinas like this was less about blatant
lies, and more about how youwould maybe twist things.
Vanessa Caruso (24:50):
Yeah. Or avoid telling the truth or exaggerate
or underplay like it just openedup the whole world of honesty to
me. It wasn't so good. I canwait. It was like, Ooh, there's
a there's a big field here. Iwas not successful at it at all
early on. So instead, I changedmy lying fast to every time. I
(25:10):
feel like I didn't tell thewhole truth or I held back. I'm
gonna write about it that nightand just note what happened. And
then I'm gonna look for themeslike what situations and
environments kind of bring outthat my yes is not always yes, I
know is not always. One thatpeople have responded to me
about I put it on my guide isfantasizing or daydreaming.
(25:32):
That's the I haven't ever triedthat. But I've had some friends
who say like, Whoa, I spent alot of my time kind of in my
head, like imagining scenariosor thinking about the future or
replaying something in the past.
If I tried to actually kind ofbookmark that every time it
happened, kind of like ancentering prayer, where you just
like return, you're like, Oh,there I am, again, not going to
(25:52):
do that for six weeks. Not gonnathink about it. That seems
fruitful for people.
Multitasking, I don't even wantto do it. It sounds too
inefficient. Like to not listento a podcast while doing the
dishes. Oh, to do one thing at atime and not try to kill two
birds with one stone just goesagainst my sensibilities in I
(26:16):
think it would be veryspiritual. And would would give
me a lot of data. But it soundsactually too hard to me. And
that it would just grate on methat I can't
Andy Withrow (26:32):
like you know, listen to some podcast right
now. What do you think can belistened to the bear with me cod
podcast, right? Well, I wash mydishes, but I could see that'd
be hard
Vanessa Caruso (26:40):
and to just listen to the podcast without
doing anything else. What awaste of time is what comes to
mind. But what I told a friendthat and she was like, that's
the death grip of capitalism.
Are you interested that somethinking that okay, neighborly
presence, I think that'd be areally cool lens addition is I
am just going to have marginsaround my day. And I'm going to
(27:03):
engage with my neighbor's andand just focus on that for six
weeks. Yeah. Trying out theSabbath. Like being intentional,
like one day a week, six timesthis season, I'm going to aim
for a Sabbath and see what Ilearned from it. And then
there's two more that, okay,I'll just finish them. And know
(27:26):
by lent of a friend doing thisthrough the Ignatian Solidarity
Network. I'll include the linkin the notes because you could
if anyone is interested in it,you could start right now. They
just set it up so well, theyhave like, Okay, what would it
look like to refrain from buyingsomething that we just don't
feel totally free around,whether it's like a cup of
(27:49):
coffee a couple times a week outat a coffee shop, or some people
are buying No, not buying anynon essentials for six weeks,
and there's this whole communityaround it, you get like these
daily things, you signedsomething, you state your
intention, it's just a reallywell done kind of challenge. So
that one feels reallyinteresting to me. And then
(28:10):
another this is my last idea. Myanother group transforming
center with Ruth Haley Barton isdoing a just lent. So a lent
focused on justice. Like it'ssomething that we a lot of us
say we want to grow in, we wantto do more work around we want
to be more intentional about andthen we never get around to it
(28:31):
or we don't as much as we wantto. So she's just like, let's do
it. And I've liked that in thepast thinking about, yeah, all
of the anti racism work that'savailable to me to do you know,
what if lead was a time where Ijust said that I'm going to do
that work? Yeah, I'm going to goto some of the recovering from
white conditioning meetings,which are basically a for
(28:53):
anybody with white privilege.
I'm going to focus on that. I'mgoing to go through the white
fragility workbook, and I'mgoing to I'm going to do the
work. So those are some of myfavorite ideas. The no buy and
or the Justice oriented.
Andy Withrow (29:08):
Yeah, those are great. I've made me think of the
problem I have with Lent.
similar problem to New Year'sresolutions, okay, is that it's
in my nature to constantly wantto reform. Yes. And so I'm
always I'm thinking of Lentthings out of season, the way
(29:29):
that I want to do lifedifferently. And so when I get
there, it's but I think I'm how,like even just the things we've
talked about before it's helpingme see this as a unique season
to do something with a specificfocus. But anyway, this is
something that had come up to mea few weeks ago that was not
necessarily wasn't congruentwith like wasn't because of
(29:52):
Lent. But but just lookingpeople in the eye I? Yeah, I
mean, even not, not like whenI'm people I know that I talked
to because I usually do that,just in case people are thinking
things about, Okay, talk topeople, but like, just on the
street oh look like, which Ioften don't do because it's
like, it can be awkward or I'mthinking about things or I'm
(30:15):
not, you know, but just lookingpeople in the eye, which, if we
make eye contact that usuallyinvolves us, like, gonna not
gonna not smile. So I have tosay that one. It's just like,
looking people in the eye moreas I'm passing by and just being
front just being generallyfriendly or Wow, to people.
Vanessa Caruso (30:32):
Yeah. That's so great. Have you tried that? Have
you been doing it? Have younoticed that you do smile more
that people make eye contact?
Andy Withrow (30:40):
Yes. Well, yeah.
Yeah. I mean, it's and I don'thave a lot of data, because it
is, like, coincidentally withLenovo. I think it was just like
last week. Yeah. So it's pretty,it's a pretty, pretty new thing.
Vanessa Caruso (30:54):
Okay, great point about the new year's
resolutions, and that you'resomeone who always wants to
reform. And so lent justsometimes can feel like an
excuse to like, try to selfactualize, or like self help
time, like, Ooh, okay, I'm gonnado this. I'm gonna do that. But
it isn't that. I think that's areal legitimate concern to bring
(31:16):
to let like, Wait, what is thisfor? Yeah.
Andy Withrow (31:21):
Yeah. But like the, I guess, with engaging the
spiritual life, engaging theChristian life. Maybe it's just
that it's the culture that we'rein the time and space that we're
in. But I constantly feel it, Iconstantly feel the rush, and
then the need to keep up or tocatch up or to multitask or to,
(31:45):
or to run with anxiety. Yeah. SoI feel like that's a year round
struggle for me. Yes, that isn'tunique to Lent. You're so and so
I feel like that's where I'malways like, trying to. How do I
slow down? How do I engage inother practice, and maybe that's
just because of the world welive in, that's appropriate that
that's a year round struggle.
And maybe it lends a specialseason and opportunity to, to
(32:07):
try something new, or dosomething with it kind of with a
unique purpose and focus of, of,of connecting in the ways that
we've been talking about? Yeah,but I know, like, I know, some
people will listen and getoverwhelmed with your list.
Yeah. And your point is not doall these things. It's like,
these are just ideas, it'sprobably smart to pick one. And
to pick one that seems fairlyaccessible. And you could be
(32:31):
maybe excited about even like,Okay, I'm going to do this one
thing for Lent. Yeah, because Ifeel like one is kind of enough.
It is often and like, let thatbe your thing that helps you
slow down that helps youdisconnect in some way so that
you can connect in other ways.
Yeah, and find some excitementand freedom and even fun. Yeah.
(32:55):
And for for Lent,
Vanessa Caruso (32:57):
way to bring it around. I agree. You reminded me
that what's unique about lentversus all year round, just
trying to slow down and be lessanxious is that a community is
doing it together. So it'stotally appropriate and even
helpful to ask a friend. Yeah,halfway through like, Hey, how's
it going?
Andy Withrow (33:18):
Right? That you find maybe what if you can find
one other person who might be inon even during the same kind of
Yeah, change or fast or, orpractice that you're doing?
Yeah, just so you have someoneto kind of connect with and talk
to about it.
Vanessa Caruso (33:33):
Yeah. So with that said, anything you're kind
of intentionally doing
Andy Withrow (33:39):
this year? Okay.
Well, so yes. Okay. Butaccidentally, because it just
happened to coincide with mine.
I could add that looking peoplein the eye want. Yeah, you could
realizing I'm doing too, but Iwas starting to feel like I was
drinking too much beer. Okay.
Yeah. Specifically, at home. Andthe problem is, it's kind of
like anything else. If it wassoda pop, it would be sort of,
(34:00):
like whatever thing that yeah,specifically around drinking.
Some preferred kind of drink. Ifit's in the fridge, and it's at
home, and it's an I'm at home atyou know, in the evening. It's
there. And it's easy. Yes. Andso it's just habit, and then it
builds and builds and builds. SoI was noticing, as long as he
wasn't sleeping, as well as Iwasn't feeling as good or as
(34:21):
rested. So I felt like thosethings were connected. Yeah. And
so that kind of gave me a senseof okay, maybe a bit of
overdependence here and I don'twant to do that. So it's not a
total fast. It's a weekends.
Yeah. And if it's if you'regoing out, yeah, but, but for
(34:43):
me, specifically, it's justhaving a, you know, a six pack
in the fridge. Yeah. During therest of the week, where it's
like it's always available toalways available thing. I now
have a different one. It's likeokay, let's just not have it in
the fridge during the week.
Yeah, that's that's my that's myfast that's a very special Have
no beer in the fridge during theworkweek.
Vanessa Caruso (35:03):
Yeah, that's it.
Okay. So I love the wholeweekday thing with Lent because
I forget what it's called. ButSunday's are supposed to be a
reprieve from whatever fast wedo.
Andy Withrow (35:15):
And these are feast days and fasters. They're
not included in the 40 days ofLent, right. That's why we 46
days between Wednesday andEaster.
Vanessa Caruso (35:24):
So I think that's a great idea to do things
that just happened during theweek where there is a once a
week or twice a week orwhatever, like, a break from
that, because I think it doesdevelop in us this more long
term rhythm of fasting andfeasting. Like which Sunday is
(35:44):
supposed to be for us, you know,at worship. And with a Sabbath.
It's supposed to be like thisrenewal point in the week. Last
year, as a family, we did noalcohol during the week, and no
takeout food, you know, likerestaurant type food. And so
Fridays were our feast Fridays,and they were like, it was like
(36:05):
a little feast Sunday. And itwas like a mini Easter every
week where we like loved thebeer and the big wheel burger
that we'd have on Fridays. So Ithink that's a great rhythm for
lunch or anything like that.
Yeah. Anything else? You'redoing? Eye contact?
Andy Withrow (36:21):
Eye contact.
Vanessa Caruso (36:22):
No beer in the fridge during the weekdays?
Yeah, yeah. What I wanted to dowas alcohol and sugar because I
have a friend. And those are twothings. She's doing some like,
Oh, I could do it with her. Andthen we could talk about it.
Accountability. I did give upalcohol last year, and it was
(36:43):
good for me to do that. And likethe first taste of wine after
the battle special. Yes. WhereasI just got I had grown
accustomed to I didn'tappreciate it the way I see.
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Soit kind of recalibrates our
senses in that way. RobertCapone, keep on keepin on, come
on is like the mom.
Andy Withrow (37:05):
Yeah, brother of alcopop. Yeah, no,
Vanessa Caruso (37:07):
you know that amazing prayer. Oh, Lord,
refresh our sensibilities Giveus this day our daily taste,
restore us to soups that spoonswill not sink in and sauces,
which are never the same twice.
Take away our fear of fat andmake us glad of the oil, which
ran down Aaron's beard, give uspasta with 100 fillings and rice
(37:29):
and 1000 variations and aboveall, give us the grace to live
as true humans too fast till wecome to a refreshed sense of
what we have. And then to dinegratefully. On all that comes to
hand. How nice amazing is that?
So like giving up beer andalcohol or sugar might refresh
(37:53):
our sensibilities and restore usto daily tastes and make our
feasts that much, much morepowerful. But I'm not giving up
alcohol or sugar. Do you knowwhy? Why Stephen was like,
that's not what I think youshould give up. He was like, I
think it should be a familydecision because I'm gonna be
irritable. Because he told me hewas like, I'm not up for that.
(38:17):
I'm not for six weeks of youlike complaining. And like being
irritable and tired and like,Yeah, or like, you know, itching
for like, what's because I havesweets every night. Okay, now
like, so I'm going to be like,anxious. He was like, No. And I
was like, legitimate, like, thisshouldn't be a personal
decision. Interesting. So Isaid, What do you think? So
(38:41):
that's another idea is have asignificant other best friend or
roommate suggest good idea.
That's like it. It feels like ahumble posture or a submissive
one to say like, what do youthink I shouldn't do? Yeah, he
suggested I should stop work atsome point each day. Like five
or six or seven?
Andy Withrow (39:00):
Well, it's interesting, because this is
pointing to what other peopleare noticing about you that you
live with. Yes. And I was like,No. Valuable. Yeah. Interesting.
So you were like, No, it's toohard. Yeah.
Vanessa Caruso (39:10):
Okay. I was like, it's not realistic is too
hard and doesn't feel fun. Yeah,he was like, That's my point,
Mike, because you never stop.
Yeah, I wonder what would happenif you actually stopped? So I'm
going to do it. So you are doingit? Yeah. What time do you think
is reasonable? Wait, what did hesay? Five six or 7pm to not do
any more work after those hours
Andy Withrow (39:33):
work after that?
Maybe six? I think reasonable.
Yeah, cuz the entire hour Yeah.
And then after dinner, let'slet's not do work. Let's relax.
Let's play catch up.
Vanessa Caruso (39:43):
Like so. That means no computer after six.
Yeah. And we have a hamster
Andy Withrow (39:50):
that I can play hamster needs attention. She's
Vanessa Caruso (39:53):
nocturnal. So 6pm 6am is her hour.
Andy Withrow (39:56):
Perfect. What do you think Leo? Is this a good
day? Yeah. Yeah, Leo's into.
Vanessa Caruso (40:04):
I do what? What says My nine year old sort of
too much says are you at nine?
Oh, see I was gonna give upalcohol on sweets and that felt
like grittier to me. And then myfamily is like, No, you work too
much stop.
Andy Withrow (40:18):
Because they're like, Oh, well, you you're going
to be working late, and you'renot going to have your sweets
and your alcohol to help.
Vanessa Caruso (40:23):
It's part of that. I need like a reward.
Yeah, to keep working. Yeah, Iknow someone else who gave up
caffeine. I mean, he's weaninghimself. But he says it's not
about the caffeine as much as itis his cycle of productivity.
Like he says he thinks hisenergy is like, at a seven he
was like, and I aim for anenergy level at a 10, which is
(40:46):
the caffeine helps me get there.
He was like, I think I'mactually my energy levels more
at six this season in life. Sohow do I recalibrate and he was
like, I have to get rid ofcaffeine in order to do that,
because I'm, I'm like the nameor hamster panda on her wheel.
Just like it's like the cyclethat you're like, got to do
more. Gotta do more. So he'scutting it down at the base of
(41:07):
the tree.
Andy Withrow (41:09):
Okay, so six o'clock 6pm. Tonight, you're
done. Exciting.
Vanessa Caruso (41:15):
Okay, let's do to see what we learned.
Andy Withrow (41:21):
Okay, better pay attention to. Yeah, that's
probably the key. It isn't whathappens, okay.
Vanessa Caruso (41:26):
And note if you if you fail, which we all will
or maybe not depends on whatyou're doing. Just just make a
note of it. No record. Yeah.
Andy Withrow (41:34):
That's part of the data. That's part of the
experience, like okay, to learn,you know, why did this happen?
Great. Thanks, Andy. Yeah,that's good. I'm glad we did
this. Detail. Are we are we backon? What are we? I think so.
We're gonna be back on Yeah.
Okay. So maybe in a couple ofweeks, we'll do this again.
Vanessa Caruso (41:50):
We'll say Lord's Prayer. Sounds like a fun, do
some LORD's Prayer stuff.
That'll be really good.
Andy Withrow (41:56):
Okay, all right.
Well, we missed you, everybody.
It's we're glad to be back.
We'll see you next time. Bye.
Welcome to the bear with me podcast where we
aim to integrate belief andpractice in the Christian life
Andy Withrow (00:18):
Hey, Andy back already happy Lent. Yeah.
Vanessa Caruso (00:21):
Bless it. Len, is that better?
Andy Withrow (00:24):
Bless it lent.
Vanessa Caruso (00:25):
You were just talking about how fine Ash
Wednesday was. That was
Andy Withrow (00:29):
that was off the chair podcast. I was solemnly
happy. Okay. No, it was. It wasin reference. We had our Ash
Wednesday gathering last nightat the table. And we had friends
from open gate friends fromchurch of our Lord, but until a
table came down, so it was justfun. It was really fun. It was
fun to see all those people inone place. Yeah,
Vanessa Caruso (00:53):
it was neat.
Like a reunion. Yeah.
Andy Withrow (00:56):
But it was all dark and gloomy and songs. Were
rich and nice and sad.
Vanessa Caruso (01:05):
Okay. That was that was a Yeah, yeah.
Andy Withrow (01:08):
Yeah. In the best way. Okay, good Out in the best
way. So, yeah.
Vanessa Caruso (01:12):
And we're back.
Yeah, we're
Andy Withrow (01:13):
back for very long.
Vanessa Caruso (01:15):
We're gonna take a little break. We tried. And
that land? It's just I justfound myself wanting to talk
about it with someone.
Andy Withrow (01:23):
Yeah. And here we are. We're gonna talk about lent
today. On this second day ofLent, for us,
Vanessa Caruso (01:29):
yes. Great. So I have some thoughts. Andy, I
thought I could just share andat any point, you can just kind
of interact with your ownthoughts. Great. I love that.
Yes. Okay. So let comes aroundevery year. For anybody who's
listening to this podcast, theyprobably know what Len is. But
(01:53):
just to recap, it's the 40 dayor six week period, beginning on
Ash Wednesday, yesterday, andending the day before Easter.
And it began in the early churchas a way to prepare for Easter.
And the number 40 brings to mindJesus's withdrawal into the
desert, which happened after Hisbaptism and before His public
(02:18):
ministry. But there's also the40 days and nights of flooding
during Noah's time. Good one,which I call back like thinking
about the Ark as a forced Lent.
Andy Withrow (02:32):
It's like a wooden box out of that before
Vanessa Caruso (02:34):
limitations you only have enough food. Yeah. And
supplies for a certain amount oftime. Good point. It's, it's
like a wilderness experience.
You're like,
Andy Withrow (02:43):
that's really fascinating, isn't it?
Vanessa Caruso (02:45):
I think there's something more there. Okay. So
yeah, Jesus's 40 days in thedesert is the most common
association with land, butthere's the 40 days and nights
of flooding. There's 40 years ofIsraelites wandering in the
desert. And in each case, these40 represent a journey of
temptation, suffering, orwandering before liberation, new
(03:08):
life or deliverance, or publicministry. Yeah. Isn't that cool?
Andy Withrow (03:13):
Yeah. I was just thinking how, in one of at least
one of the versions I think ofthe of Jesus temptation story,
it says he was with the wildanimals.
Vanessa Caruso (03:24):
Yes, it does.
That's so true. Is thatreminding you of the wilderness?
The Israelites time in thewilderness?
Andy Withrow (03:32):
No. Oh, it's reminding me of the 40 days Shut
up in the ark. Oh, my gosh. Witha bunch of animals. Yes. Anyway,
that another podcast, okay.
Yeah. So sometimes, yeah,sometimes we'll unpack the
connections.
Vanessa Caruso (03:47):
I bet there are more like the dove knows,
Andy Withrow (03:54):
we better stop okay, this will get hijacked.
Vanessa Caruso (03:59):
Okay. Lens means spring. So it derives from our
word meaning long. Here in thenorthern hemisphere, it does not
feel like spring. But as we movetowards Easter, it will start to
so one way to understand thatdepending on where you live is
that the days are lengthening.
In Latin. The word Lent meansslowly. So whether we're talking
(04:24):
about to lengthen or to slow usdown, that's a really great clue
for me about what latent lentmeans. It kind of stretches us
in some different ways, or itslows us down. I like to think
of Lent, kind of loosening ourgrasp on some things. Some of
(04:45):
our compulsions or our habitsare things that we take for
granted. So when I think of Lentas like stretch or lengthen, I
think it's making space betweenme and some of my habits are
composed Oceans, or when I thinkof Lent as slow, I'm thinking
it's waking me up to what I cantake for granted. And it's like,
(05:05):
it's a season of intentionality.
So it's right kind of in theheart of winter here for us, in
North America, and it's anopportunity to grow spiritually
in a similar way that we mightplant seeds in a in a month or
(05:27):
two, that also hopefully cangrow and bloom after Easter.
What do you think about allthat?
Andy Withrow (05:39):
Yeah, it's it's overlapping with some of the
things I've been thinking aboutwith land as well. Associating
Lent with the desert. Just injust in the 40 days of, of Jesus
being in the desert, as youmentioned. And, and and thinking
(06:00):
about and I think I shared thison an episode or two ago about
Thomas Merton reading throughhis contemplative prayer. I
might have read a little bitfrom it, but it was just that
opening line of the desert isthe climate where prayer can
flower, right. And so thinkingof Lent, the season of Lent in
(06:25):
the Christian calendar, thechurch calendar, is kind of to
the rest of the year like adesert is to a larger ecosystem.
And Thomas Merton's reflectionon the desert is an invitation
for prayer to flower, we're awayfrom the securities of the city,
or the securities of ourtechnology, in the comforts of
(06:47):
all those things tie into thisidea. It helped, it helped me
just kind of give a bit of aframework for that. Slowing down
that a bit of finding a bit ofcritical distance between
something that I rely on a lot.
Yeah. Which could be Oh, bunchof different things. Right. So
(07:08):
that's why that's where it kindof that tradition of giving up
something for Lent comes it'snot just something we do,
because that's what everyonedoes, or what's always on
there's actually some, somewisdom and connection behind it
of this is a season a uniqueseason two. Just didn't, sir.
Give that space.
Vanessa Caruso (07:29):
Yeah, that's beautiful to think of the desert
as outside of the city. Likeit's, there's that critical
distance from the noise, thestatus quo, the routines, the
agendas. Yeah. And it's alsosparse, like I think of a desert
is more sparse. Yeah. Than acity. So there's, there's like a
(07:51):
some kind of forced simplicity,that you're talking about. Kind
of giving some space for thisflower to bloom that might only
bloom in the desert. Yeah.
Andy Withrow (08:04):
Yeah, and I think the the idea of Lent, or the
obser, observing of Lent, in,maybe in the North American
church has been on some parts ofit has sort of been not
celebrated as much because of,it's a bit of a, it can be seen
(08:24):
as a bit of a downer, yes. Maybenot as easily promotable as
other more festive times of theyear. Right. And but it's really
the wisdom of the tradition thathas put it in there every year,
for those who follow Jesus,because that's actually
(08:44):
following Jesus into the desertor into this confrontation with
the dark parts of life in theworld. And so this is an
invitation to actually follow ina meaningful way.
Vanessa Caruso (09:04):
I love that. So that reminds me of the fasting
portion of Lent, like followingJesus into this darker period of
his life and identifying withhim in it. It reminds me of some
of the fasting material you thatyou and I have talked about,
(09:24):
because a few years ago, you andI both fasted food through on
Fridays, during Lent. A coupleof years ago. Yeah, I don't
think it was last year, butmaybe the year before that. And
there is this tradition of, offasting and Lent, fasting
almsgiving. Justice, I thinkthese are all some of the
(09:45):
penitence, repentance. These aresome of the traditional ideas
behind Lent. And I remember thisis a side note but about ashes.
I remember reading that therewas a tradition of sitting and
ashes And that's what the wordCinderella means. It's a woman
who sits in ashes. And it was,it was a way of saying, there
(10:09):
are times in our life, that wecome to terms with our mortality
with our finitude with theprecarity of existence. So that
idea in the Bible of sackclothand ashes, it's, it's those
times when we, you know, kind ofsit with what has remained after
a fire has burned up what weknow or what we love. So, this
(10:36):
tradition of fasting one of myfavorite quotes for around
fasting is from Ronald rollHeiser. And what does he say,
never written down here. Oh, inliturgical terms, we fast before
we feast. In our time, westruggle with such paradoxes.
(10:57):
Many of our feasts fall flat,because there has been no
previous fast. And that has beenso true for me, like I snack all
day long. I don't, I am soaccustomed to getting what I
want, when I want it. Not justwith food, but food is just like
a very daily way for me to liveout that kind of constant
(11:21):
satiation I have, which is, Iknow, so privileged, you know,
that things are at my fingertipsaccess to information is that my
fingertips, snacks are at myfingertips, cravings are at my
fingertips. So I like the ideaof trusting going back to what
you said about this being agloomy time of year, kind of
(11:41):
trusting that it's an importanttime of year to trust that are,
many of our feasts do fall flat,because we don't, right, many of
us don't know what it's like togo without, or to have that
critical distance between whatwe think we need, what we
actually need. So that's socompelling to me about whatever
(12:03):
kind of fast lent might present,whether it is physical, food
related, or something else,which we can talk about in a
little bit. Yeah.
Andy Withrow (12:14):
Yeah. It made me think of this a lot of my own
personal reflection, that sameidea of just being in a time and
place where it's so easy to getall our needs and wants met
pretty quickly. Yeah. And, and,and I liked that meeting. But in
(12:37):
the, in the setting of thepurpose of Lent, which I think
in part is to follow Jesus intothe desert to follow Jesus into
some of the dark parts of hislife and ministry in the, in
the, in the world. That thoseexcesses, yeah, can be a way of
(12:59):
covering up that darkness, yes,denying it, of escaping it.
Whether that's from whetherthat's snacking all day, or
whether that's, you know,whatever, whatever thing helps
fill or distract me, yeah. Andland is an opportunity to put
some of those things away toopen ourselves up to the reality
(13:20):
of, of life in itsimperfections, and its its
brokenness, and its hardness,and offer to gather those things
up and offer them to God. Andthat's the invitation of land, I
think, is to take the darknessand brokenness of the world in
(13:42):
our life seriously, and, andbring them into the setting of
worship together. I love that,which is counterintuitive, maybe
for us, depending on how we grewup, or how our theology but
that's the like me that's thePsalms that's the whole Bible is
bringing is gathering the wholeself to God and the dark parts
(14:03):
so that he can do something withthem. But our I think our
tendency or intuition orreaction is to kind of cover
those up Yeah, or deny those orignore those or to put those at
a distance from ourselvesinstead of being exposed to them
and taking them seriously. Andseeing and trusting that God has
(14:26):
something good and strong enoughto do something about them.
Vanessa Caruso (14:30):
So beautiful. I love the like, gathering like
you're doing that you peoplecan't see it, but you're like
doing that with your hands likethis gathering motion and
bringing it into our worship.
That's such a beautiful idea. Itreminds me of the Pascal mystery
like I think of the very shortversion of the Pascal mystery is
life, death life. And justwanting to skip how many how
(14:55):
much I want to skip kind of thepassage through the The death
part. And what you're saying ismaking me think, no, what if we
take some time every year totrust that all that stuff that's
associated with death, pain,violence, mortality, brokenness,
sin. And we gather that up, itsounds like an offering, which
(15:18):
is the counterintuitive part. Itreminds me too, that I read an
article about Ramadan, becauseMuslims do 40 days of fasting
during Ramadan. And they don'teat or drink I, if I understand
correctly, from dawn until dusk,so depending on where you live
(15:39):
in the world, that could be like6am to 8pm. Yeah, no water, no
drinking, or eating during theday, so you can eat before and
then after. So I read aninterview with Lisa Sharon
Harper, who's this greatChristian activist in
Philadelphia, with an imam. Andhe talked about saying that the
(16:01):
blessing that they give forRamadan translates to a generous
Ramadan. Because they trust thattheir spiritual bounty from this
season of darkness of withdrawalof less and so that's what I
hear you talking about, liketrusting that there's a
(16:21):
spiritual bounty and gather upall this stuff. That's hard to
face.
Andy Withrow (16:27):
Yeah. And trusting the I'm hung up on the Lord's
Prayer, because that's whatwe're doing for Lent and sort of
been in but trusting that God isgoing to make the kingdom of
this world in it will become thekingdom of God. So that means
all the dark places have to beaddressed. All the injustice
have to be addressed andaccounted for and transformed.
(16:50):
And so if gotten this sense ofboth in connection to the Lord's
Prayer and to learn is that partof our Christian vocation or
work is to see and name the darkplaces and bring them before our
God in prayer. And trust in thatmaybe the offering sincerity he
(17:12):
will receive those in trance, dosomething with them. Yeah. And
and I think when for those of uswho have grown up maybe in a
tradition that did not hit lentvery well, or Ash Wednesday, or
Good Friday, and those sorts ofthings. I think for people who
come like to the table, forexample, at a Ash Wednesday or
(17:34):
Good Friday service, there's anew thing that happens like the
the the power and the connectionyou can feel when you bring
mourning as a act of worship iscounterintuitive, because we
tend we can tend to associateworship with positive feelings.
(17:58):
Yeah, connection to God withpositive feelings. But the
invitation is like no Take, takethe other things too. And bring
them in have that be a spacewhere God also interacts and
connects and love it. And thenyou've got a whole nother realm,
a lot of life that can now beentered into this relationship
(18:19):
and into this worship and intothis thing we call the Christian
life. A lot of life a lot oflife. You don't kindergarten and
it's counterintuitive. Stopcovering all that stuff up.
Yeah. And just allow it to beand sit with it. And have that
be an aspect of our worship andtrust.
Vanessa Caruso (18:36):
Yeah. Wow. I already am grateful for this
conversation as we head into thenext six weeks. Okay, let's just
keep going. And then and keeptalking. A quote, like, you
(18:58):
know, I get a newsletter fromAbbey of the arts, Christine
Valters painter. And she saidthat this Lent, she's, you know,
offering this invitation to aseries of non physical fast,
where we explore what it meansto fast from multitasking,
anxiety, rushing, holding it alltogether, planning and
(19:20):
certainty. And as communitythey're going to embrace
presence, abundance, slowness,tenderness, unfolding, and
mystery. So that was just like,you know, I read that a few days
ago in my email inbox and justthat was evocative to me, like,
wow, as a community. That's howthey've prepared to engage leant
(19:40):
together like they've named somethings that are just part there
in Ireland, you know, that arejust like part of their everyday
lives that they're going to dotogether. And that's one of the
things I appreciate about Len isthat it's not a season where we
just kind of observe our genericbrokenness and and generic
(20:01):
darkness, but we, the invitationis to bring it a little bit
closer to home and to customize,customize the lens journey for
ourselves. So, over the years,I've just loved kind of
collecting these creative faststhat people do, or creative
additions that they make totheir, to their lives, because
we're all just so different. Sosomething that might be a virtue
(20:25):
for me might be advice forsomebody else, you know, a go to
example is that I tend to wantto avoid conflict. Not everybody
is wired like that. So engagingintentionally, during Lent with
like, I'm not going to avoidconflict, you know, I'm not
gonna not do something becausemy son might get mad at me, or
(20:46):
I'm not gonna sidestep aconversation that I have like
opinions about because I justdon't want to deal with it.
Whereas someone else, that mightbe more of a vise, they might go
to conflict, right, way tooeasily and kind of reframing or
listening or biting their tonguemight be like a great discipline
for them. Yeah. So I love thatcustomization aspect of Lent
(21:09):
that we can bring it closer tohome. So I have a few of my
favorite ideas. But I want togive you a chance to respond to
any
Andy Withrow (21:18):
Yeah, no. Well, I was thinking about how I mean,
it makes sense that we're alldifferent. We're all
individuals. Yeah. God has spacefor each of those in that
discernment plays a role in, inour following, following God are
following Jesus into the desertto say, well, what is it that
(21:38):
God is, is saying, look, take alook at this thing. And yeah,
let's, let's put some criticaldistance between you in that
thing. And, oh, shoot, I hadanother thought it just flew
away from
Vanessa Caruso (21:52):
me. Was it about like, conflict or something?
Because, you
Andy Withrow (21:55):
know, I might, I might certainly add to it if it
comes up. But that was about it.
Well, that was kind of thething.
Vanessa Caruso (22:02):
The customization. So here are some
of my, that was a nicecustomization.
Andy Withrow (22:07):
So part, it seems to me that part of the desert
experience. I know, we'retalking metaphorically here and
like you could literally go outto a desert, be careful, make
plans, but this space givingslowing down giving even
critical space to recalibrateour senses to be become aware of
(22:33):
what are the things that I'mover dependent on or even just
dependent on that just need alittle bit of a distance or that
break or that putting offeringthat before? Before God? Yeah,
sort of thing. Seems like that'sgot to be a piece of, of even
the Jesus 40 days in the desertof what did he like? What did he
(22:55):
see that? Yes, that that timeafforded him? Right?
Vanessa Caruso (23:00):
Yes. That's so good. I love recalibrating our
senses. And you keep using theword critical, which I think is
it's like critical thinking notcritical as a negative, but
there's like this focus,
Andy Withrow (23:13):
and wasn't like yeah, go distance is a an
important distance. Yeah. Yeah,
Vanessa Caruso (23:20):
yeah, it's measured. It's like what a
critical distance is kind oflike, it's not vague. It's not
generic. Okay, so that's real,congruent with what I've what
excites me. So some of the someof the fasts or additions that
I've liked over the years, afriend of ours gave up colorful
clothing. So she just wore likeblack, beige and gray or
(23:45):
something. And she's an Herstyle is part of her identity.
And so she wanted to see what itwould be like to put some
critical distance between herand something she does every
day, which is like, figure outthe great thing she's going to
wear. I have a friend this yeardoing the artists way for Lent,
which is that really amazingcreativity workbook. And there's
(24:08):
a Christian version called theartists rural that I've done,
which is beautiful. And it'slike, every day there are little
assignments to do. So that's afun one. One I'm famous for have
lent one right, my own in my ownlittle world is that to give
applying when you're freelance.
That's right. And that wasreally rich. Not that I stopped
(24:29):
lying completely. But I becameaware of all the times that I
wasn't telling the full truth,and nothing about the truth.
Yeah. And so that was,
Andy Withrow (24:44):
yeah, retinas like this was less about blatant
lies, and more about how youwould maybe twist things.
Vanessa Caruso (24:50):
Yeah. Or avoid telling the truth or exaggerate
or underplay like it just openedup the whole world of honesty to
me. It wasn't so good. I canwait. It was like, Ooh, there's
a there's a big field here. Iwas not successful at it at all
early on. So instead, I changedmy lying fast to every time. I
(25:10):
feel like I didn't tell thewhole truth or I held back. I'm
gonna write about it that nightand just note what happened. And
then I'm gonna look for themeslike what situations and
environments kind of bring outthat my yes is not always yes, I
know is not always. One thatpeople have responded to me
about I put it on my guide isfantasizing or daydreaming.
(25:32):
That's the I haven't ever triedthat. But I've had some friends
who say like, Whoa, I spent alot of my time kind of in my
head, like imagining scenariosor thinking about the future or
replaying something in the past.
If I tried to actually kind ofbookmark that every time it
happened, kind of like ancentering prayer, where you just
like return, you're like, Oh,there I am, again, not going to
(25:52):
do that for six weeks. Not gonnathink about it. That seems
fruitful for people.
Multitasking, I don't even wantto do it. It sounds too
inefficient. Like to not listento a podcast while doing the
dishes. Oh, to do one thing at atime and not try to kill two
birds with one stone just goesagainst my sensibilities in I
(26:16):
think it would be veryspiritual. And would would give
me a lot of data. But it soundsactually too hard to me. And
that it would just grate on methat I can't
Andy Withrow (26:32):
like you know, listen to some podcast right
now. What do you think can belistened to the bear with me cod
podcast, right? Well, I wash mydishes, but I could see that'd
be hard
Vanessa Caruso (26:40):
and to just listen to the podcast without
doing anything else. What awaste of time is what comes to
mind. But what I told a friendthat and she was like, that's
the death grip of capitalism.
Are you interested that somethinking that okay, neighborly
presence, I think that'd be areally cool lens addition is I
am just going to have marginsaround my day. And I'm going to
(27:03):
engage with my neighbor's andand just focus on that for six
weeks. Yeah. Trying out theSabbath. Like being intentional,
like one day a week, six timesthis season, I'm going to aim
for a Sabbath and see what Ilearned from it. And then
there's two more that, okay,I'll just finish them. And know
(27:26):
by lent of a friend doing thisthrough the Ignatian Solidarity
Network. I'll include the linkin the notes because you could
if anyone is interested in it,you could start right now. They
just set it up so well, theyhave like, Okay, what would it
look like to refrain from buyingsomething that we just don't
feel totally free around,whether it's like a cup of
(27:49):
coffee a couple times a week outat a coffee shop, or some people
are buying No, not buying anynon essentials for six weeks,
and there's this whole communityaround it, you get like these
daily things, you signedsomething, you state your
intention, it's just a reallywell done kind of challenge. So
that one feels reallyinteresting to me. And then
(28:10):
another this is my last idea. Myanother group transforming
center with Ruth Haley Barton isdoing a just lent. So a lent
focused on justice. Like it'ssomething that we a lot of us
say we want to grow in, we wantto do more work around we want
to be more intentional about andthen we never get around to it
(28:31):
or we don't as much as we wantto. So she's just like, let's do
it. And I've liked that in thepast thinking about, yeah, all
of the anti racism work that'savailable to me to do you know,
what if lead was a time where Ijust said that I'm going to do
that work? Yeah, I'm going to goto some of the recovering from
white conditioning meetings,which are basically a for
(28:53):
anybody with white privilege.
I'm going to focus on that. I'mgoing to go through the white
fragility workbook, and I'mgoing to I'm going to do the
work. So those are some of myfavorite ideas. The no buy and
or the Justice oriented.
Andy Withrow (29:08):
Yeah, those are great. I've made me think of the
problem I have with Lent.
similar problem to New Year'sresolutions, okay, is that it's
in my nature to constantly wantto reform. Yes. And so I'm
always I'm thinking of Lentthings out of season, the way
(29:29):
that I want to do lifedifferently. And so when I get
there, it's but I think I'm how,like even just the things we've
talked about before it's helpingme see this as a unique season
to do something with a specificfocus. But anyway, this is
something that had come up to mea few weeks ago that was not
necessarily wasn't congruentwith like wasn't because of
(29:52):
Lent. But but just lookingpeople in the eye I? Yeah, I
mean, even not, not like whenI'm people I know that I talked
to because I usually do that,just in case people are thinking
things about, Okay, talk topeople, but like, just on the
street oh look like, which Ioften don't do because it's
like, it can be awkward or I'mthinking about things or I'm
(30:15):
not, you know, but just lookingpeople in the eye, which, if we
make eye contact that usuallyinvolves us, like, gonna not
gonna not smile. So I have tosay that one. It's just like,
looking people in the eye moreas I'm passing by and just being
front just being generallyfriendly or Wow, to people.
Vanessa Caruso (30:32):
Yeah. That's so great. Have you tried that? Have
you been doing it? Have younoticed that you do smile more
that people make eye contact?
Andy Withrow (30:40):
Yes. Well, yeah.
Yeah. I mean, it's and I don'thave a lot of data, because it
is, like, coincidentally withLenovo. I think it was just like
last week. Yeah. So it's pretty,it's a pretty, pretty new thing.
Vanessa Caruso (30:54):
Okay, great point about the new year's
resolutions, and that you'resomeone who always wants to
reform. And so lent justsometimes can feel like an
excuse to like, try to selfactualize, or like self help
time, like, Ooh, okay, I'm gonnado this. I'm gonna do that. But
it isn't that. I think that's areal legitimate concern to bring
(31:16):
to let like, Wait, what is thisfor? Yeah.
Andy Withrow (31:21):
Yeah. But like the, I guess, with engaging the
spiritual life, engaging theChristian life. Maybe it's just
that it's the culture that we'rein the time and space that we're
in. But I constantly feel it, Iconstantly feel the rush, and
then the need to keep up or tocatch up or to multitask or to,
(31:45):
or to run with anxiety. Yeah. SoI feel like that's a year round
struggle for me. Yes, that isn'tunique to Lent. You're so and so
I feel like that's where I'malways like, trying to. How do I
slow down? How do I engage inother practice, and maybe that's
just because of the world welive in, that's appropriate that
that's a year round struggle.
And maybe it lends a specialseason and opportunity to, to
(32:07):
try something new, or dosomething with it kind of with a
unique purpose and focus of, of,of connecting in the ways that
we've been talking about? Yeah,but I know, like, I know, some
people will listen and getoverwhelmed with your list.
Yeah. And your point is not doall these things. It's like,
these are just ideas, it'sprobably smart to pick one. And
to pick one that seems fairlyaccessible. And you could be
(32:31):
maybe excited about even like,Okay, I'm going to do this one
thing for Lent. Yeah, because Ifeel like one is kind of enough.
It is often and like, let thatbe your thing that helps you
slow down that helps youdisconnect in some way so that
you can connect in other ways.
Yeah, and find some excitementand freedom and even fun. Yeah.
(32:55):
And for for Lent,
Vanessa Caruso (32:57):
way to bring it around. I agree. You reminded me
that what's unique about lentversus all year round, just
trying to slow down and be lessanxious is that a community is
doing it together. So it'stotally appropriate and even
helpful to ask a friend. Yeah,halfway through like, Hey, how's
it going?
Andy Withrow (33:18):
Right? That you find maybe what if you can find
one other person who might be inon even during the same kind of
Yeah, change or fast or, orpractice that you're doing?
Yeah, just so you have someoneto kind of connect with and talk
to about it.
Vanessa Caruso (33:33):
Yeah. So with that said, anything you're kind
of intentionally doing
Andy Withrow (33:39):
this year? Okay.
Well, so yes. Okay. Butaccidentally, because it just
happened to coincide with mine.
I could add that looking peoplein the eye want. Yeah, you could
realizing I'm doing too, but Iwas starting to feel like I was
drinking too much beer. Okay.
Yeah. Specifically, at home. Andthe problem is, it's kind of
like anything else. If it wassoda pop, it would be sort of,
(34:00):
like whatever thing that yeah,specifically around drinking.
Some preferred kind of drink. Ifit's in the fridge, and it's at
home, and it's an I'm at home atyou know, in the evening. It's
there. And it's easy. Yes. Andso it's just habit, and then it
builds and builds and builds. SoI was noticing, as long as he
wasn't sleeping, as well as Iwasn't feeling as good or as
(34:21):
rested. So I felt like thosethings were connected. Yeah. And
so that kind of gave me a senseof okay, maybe a bit of
overdependence here and I don'twant to do that. So it's not a
total fast. It's a weekends.
Yeah. And if it's if you'regoing out, yeah, but, but for
(34:43):
me, specifically, it's justhaving a, you know, a six pack
in the fridge. Yeah. During therest of the week, where it's
like it's always available toalways available thing. I now
have a different one. It's likeokay, let's just not have it in
the fridge during the week.
Yeah, that's that's my that's myfast that's a very special Have
no beer in the fridge during theworkweek.
Vanessa Caruso (35:03):
Yeah, that's it.
Okay. So I love the wholeweekday thing with Lent because
I forget what it's called. ButSunday's are supposed to be a
reprieve from whatever fast wedo.
Andy Withrow (35:15):
And these are feast days and fasters. They're
not included in the 40 days ofLent, right. That's why we 46
days between Wednesday andEaster.
Vanessa Caruso (35:24):
So I think that's a great idea to do things
that just happened during theweek where there is a once a
week or twice a week orwhatever, like, a break from
that, because I think it doesdevelop in us this more long
term rhythm of fasting andfeasting. Like which Sunday is
(35:44):
supposed to be for us, you know,at worship. And with a Sabbath.
It's supposed to be like thisrenewal point in the week. Last
year, as a family, we did noalcohol during the week, and no
takeout food, you know, likerestaurant type food. And so
Fridays were our feast Fridays,and they were like, it was like
(36:05):
a little feast Sunday. And itwas like a mini Easter every
week where we like loved thebeer and the big wheel burger
that we'd have on Fridays. So Ithink that's a great rhythm for
lunch or anything like that.
Yeah. Anything else? You'redoing? Eye contact?
Andy Withrow (36:21):
Eye contact.
Vanessa Caruso (36:22):
No beer in the fridge during the weekdays?
Yeah, yeah. What I wanted to dowas alcohol and sugar because I
have a friend. And those are twothings. She's doing some like,
Oh, I could do it with her. Andthen we could talk about it.
Accountability. I did give upalcohol last year, and it was
(36:43):
good for me to do that. And likethe first taste of wine after
the battle special. Yes. WhereasI just got I had grown
accustomed to I didn'tappreciate it the way I see.
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Soit kind of recalibrates our
senses in that way. RobertCapone, keep on keepin on, come
on is like the mom.
Andy Withrow (37:05):
Yeah, brother of alcopop. Yeah, no,
Vanessa Caruso (37:07):
you know that amazing prayer. Oh, Lord,
refresh our sensibilities Giveus this day our daily taste,
restore us to soups that spoonswill not sink in and sauces,
which are never the same twice.
Take away our fear of fat andmake us glad of the oil, which
ran down Aaron's beard, give uspasta with 100 fillings and rice
(37:29):
and 1000 variations and aboveall, give us the grace to live
as true humans too fast till wecome to a refreshed sense of
what we have. And then to dinegratefully. On all that comes to
hand. How nice amazing is that?
So like giving up beer andalcohol or sugar might refresh
(37:53):
our sensibilities and restore usto daily tastes and make our
feasts that much, much morepowerful. But I'm not giving up
alcohol or sugar. Do you knowwhy? Why Stephen was like,
that's not what I think youshould give up. He was like, I
think it should be a familydecision because I'm gonna be
irritable. Because he told me hewas like, I'm not up for that.
(38:17):
I'm not for six weeks of youlike complaining. And like being
irritable and tired and like,Yeah, or like, you know, itching
for like, what's because I havesweets every night. Okay, now
like, so I'm going to be like,anxious. He was like, No. And I
was like, legitimate, like, thisshouldn't be a personal
decision. Interesting. So Isaid, What do you think? So
(38:41):
that's another idea is have asignificant other best friend or
roommate suggest good idea.
That's like it. It feels like ahumble posture or a submissive
one to say like, what do youthink I shouldn't do? Yeah, he
suggested I should stop work atsome point each day. Like five
or six or seven?
Andy Withrow (39:00):
Well, it's interesting, because this is
pointing to what other peopleare noticing about you that you
live with. Yes. And I was like,No. Valuable. Yeah. Interesting.
So you were like, No, it's toohard. Yeah.
Vanessa Caruso (39:10):
Okay. I was like, it's not realistic is too
hard and doesn't feel fun. Yeah,he was like, That's my point,
Mike, because you never stop.
Yeah, I wonder what would happenif you actually stopped? So I'm
going to do it. So you are doingit? Yeah. What time do you think
is reasonable? Wait, what did hesay? Five six or 7pm to not do
any more work after those hours
Andy Withrow (39:33):
work after that?
Maybe six? I think reasonable.
Yeah, cuz the entire hour Yeah.
And then after dinner, let'slet's not do work. Let's relax.
Let's play catch up.
Vanessa Caruso (39:43):
Like so. That means no computer after six.
Yeah. And we have a hamster
Andy Withrow (39:50):
that I can play hamster needs attention. She's
Vanessa Caruso (39:53):
nocturnal. So 6pm 6am is her hour.
Andy Withrow (39:56):
Perfect. What do you think Leo? Is this a good
day? Yeah. Yeah, Leo's into.
Vanessa Caruso (40:04):
I do what? What says My nine year old sort of
too much says are you at nine?
Oh, see I was gonna give upalcohol on sweets and that felt
like grittier to me. And then myfamily is like, No, you work too
much stop.
Andy Withrow (40:18):
Because they're like, Oh, well, you you're going
to be working late, and you'renot going to have your sweets
and your alcohol to help.
Vanessa Caruso (40:23):
It's part of that. I need like a reward.
Yeah, to keep working. Yeah, Iknow someone else who gave up
caffeine. I mean, he's weaninghimself. But he says it's not
about the caffeine as much as itis his cycle of productivity.
Like he says he thinks hisenergy is like, at a seven he
was like, and I aim for anenergy level at a 10, which is
(40:46):
the caffeine helps me get there.
He was like, I think I'mactually my energy levels more
at six this season in life. Sohow do I recalibrate and he was
like, I have to get rid ofcaffeine in order to do that,
because I'm, I'm like the nameor hamster panda on her wheel.
Just like it's like the cyclethat you're like, got to do
more. Gotta do more. So he'scutting it down at the base of
(41:07):
the tree.
Andy Withrow (41:09):
Okay, so six o'clock 6pm. Tonight, you're
done. Exciting.
Vanessa Caruso (41:15):
Okay, let's do to see what we learned.
Andy Withrow (41:21):
Okay, better pay attention to. Yeah, that's
probably the key. It isn't whathappens, okay.
Vanessa Caruso (41:26):
And note if you if you fail, which we all will
or maybe not depends on whatyou're doing. Just just make a
note of it. No record. Yeah.
Andy Withrow (41:34):
That's part of the data. That's part of the
experience, like okay, to learn,you know, why did this happen?
Great. Thanks, Andy. Yeah,that's good. I'm glad we did
this. Detail. Are we are we backon? What are we? I think so.
We're gonna be back on Yeah.
Okay. So maybe in a couple ofweeks, we'll do this again.
Vanessa Caruso (41:50):
We'll say Lord's Prayer. Sounds like a fun, do
some LORD's Prayer stuff.
That'll be really good.
Andy Withrow (41:56):
Okay, all right.
Well, we missed you, everybody.
It's we're glad to be back.
We'll see you next time. Bye.
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