Vanessa's Top 7 Advent Thoughts for 2022

Vanessa picked 7 of her favourite Advent thoughts that have been percolating in her heart and mind for this season and she shares them with us.

Resources:

• Here's a Christianity Today(!) Blog Post from Vanessa with more ideas and resources
• Vanessa's  Gift ideas for locals - Victoria Gift Guide
• Here's a link to a downloadable Advent Guide from Vanessa

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Episode Transcript

Vanessa Caruso (00:16):
We're here.
Nice. Hi, Andy. Hi, Vanessa.
How's it gone? Good.

Andy Withrow (00:20):
It's been a few weeks. It has we were gonna do a
part two, we're gonna do parttwo of spiritual direction.
Yeah, we were and we're gonna doit like the next week. Yeah. And
then I said, I can't do it nowsomething about kids. I can't
remember. And then I was gonefor a week and then you and I
was gone for the night, then youwere gone. Right. Anyway, we're
back now. And it's time to dopart two spiritual direction,

(00:43):
except that we find out thatit's, we're in the middle where
it just started Advent. Yeah. Wecan't start Advent without
talking about Advent. So we'regonna put a pin in spiritual
direction. Yes, yeah. And comeback to it later. Probably next
time. I would think so. Yeah.
And we're gonna talk aboutAdvent. Yeah.

Vanessa Caruso (01:03):
Are you tired of talking about Advent? No. Oh,
good.

Andy Withrow (01:08):
I don't ever actually not talked about it
that much. Okay. So far.

Vanessa Caruso (01:12):
So I put together this Advent guide. Yes.
So I have been thinking aboutAdvent for a few weeks. And now
I'm just, I feel a little bitself conscious. Like, oh, is
everyone like, to advented outlike a lot more podcasts this
year? I feel like even than lastyear, are about Advent. Do you
notice that? It's becoming cool.

Andy Withrow (01:35):
Yeah, I think it's catching on. Yeah, it's a new
idea.

Vanessa Caruso (01:39):
For some new old idea. Yeah. So I do feel a
little what's the word whenyou've been in something too
long? Like been too up close toit? Yeah. So I thought, Okay,
what would be kind of a fresh,authentic way to talk about
Advent where I don't get toostale, because I have been

(02:02):
sitting in it for a while. So Iwould like to share seven things
that are kind of alive. For me.
I love lists. So this is great.
Good. I love lists, too. Youknow what number you're on? And
how many more? There you go.
Okay. So that's what I'd like todo. They're very, they're not in
order. Some of them are random,but they're the things that kind

(02:23):
of excite me the most aboutAdvent Vanessa's

Andy Withrow (02:26):
top seven Advent ideas in order.

Vanessa Caruso (02:29):
Okay, are you ready for the first time?

Andy Withrow (02:31):
They're not in?
Oh, yeah.

Vanessa Caruso (02:33):
Okay. top seven.

Andy Withrow (02:34):
Okay. Is this a countdown from seven to one? No,
no, because they're not inorder. But people it'd be more
exciting if they were. I can'tdecide which will be the first
in no particular order. Startingat number one. Vanessa's big
Advent idea. Go.

Vanessa Caruso (02:49):
Okay, make Advent matter. Again. This is
not maybe Mama is mama.

Andy Withrow (03:02):
Okay, okay. Down here. Yeah.

Vanessa Caruso (03:05):
Okay, so we all know Dewey that Advent means
coming. So it's the period ofweeks leading up to Christmas,
where we remember Jesus comingto Bethlehem God as a child. We
also look forward to Jesus'sreturn, Christ's second coming.

(03:26):
But I feel a little bit like wecan go through the motions a
bit, I should speak for myself.
What I mean by make Adventmatter, again, is that I don't
want to just like reenact thestory in kind of a shallow way,
the way that a pageant might notsaying that ship pageants are

(03:47):
shallow. But there there is thissense of, you know, putting on
the the outfit of Advent orsomething like this
spiritualized words and motionsand stuff like that without, for
me sometimes without reallythinking like, what, what

(04:09):
matters this year 2022 In mylife and my family and my
friends, in this moment inhistory, in my time, and what
would it be like to resist theurge to kind of just go through
the motions and actually be partof like integrating or birthing?
Something that matters? Thisyear? This is making sense. This

(04:34):
one's pretty vaguely formed forme.

Andy Withrow (04:40):
Yeah, it makes it makes sense. I mean, always
always the temptation, theautopilot stuff. And I think the
calendar year the liturgy inpart of the helpfulness of it is
it does carry you to agree toreally where you're exhausted

(05:01):
your decision fatigue, you don'thave to decide what reading to
read. Yeah, if you've got anadvent calendar or Advent
devotional or an add in somesort of plan. And so I think
that's the good side of it nice.
But if it's too much that andthere's no sort of, okay, I need
to I also need to do my part andshow up in some meaningful way,
then, then we can miss a lot.

(05:22):
Yeah, I think that makes a lotof

Vanessa Caruso (05:23):
Andy, I'm just I love that you said that their
Advent does provide a containerand it you can rest in that and
let it carry you. I love that.
If you get too comfortable, if Iget too comfortable, if I get
too familiar with it, if I takeit for granted too much. There
is a form of spiritual bypassingthat can happen, where I let
spiritual things and ideas andwords and phrases take my

(05:47):
attention away from theimportant things that God's
actually trying to get myattention about in my real life.
And that's what I don't want todo this and I think

Andy Withrow (05:59):
for me on this on this topic, it's it's being okay
with a lot of the being okaywith some of the autopilot stuff
because I can't because thedecision because there's so much
and if I'm going to just pickone thing to show up for or say
okay, well, this is this iswhere we're at today, this is
the whatever the thing is thethe reading the response, the

(06:22):
devotion to the practices, whatare the other six practices
we're gonna look at are to say,Okay, I'm going to my part is
to, is to engage in short forthis thing. And I can let God do
and the calendar the season, doa lot more of the work or God do
a lot more the work through theseason. I love

Vanessa Caruso (06:43):
that. Like, let God do the heavy lifting. It
feels like you're saying butshow up and to do one thing at a
time. That's pretty relieving tome, too.

Andy Withrow (06:54):
That's, if you're going to ask me. What's God when
speaking to you this season?
Literally, in my little prayerjournal, is the words or the
phrase one thing at a time. Noway. Yeah. That's so cool.
That's really important for me,and very hard to do hard.
Freeing when I remember. Yeah, Ican really only do one thing at

(07:17):
a time. Well, truly. Yeah. Whichmakes a lot of other things
hard, like decisions aboutwhat's the one thing you're
good? Yes. The nice spring partis I only have to do one thing
at a time. So you only really doone thing at a time. The hard
part is clearing the deck.

Vanessa Caruso (07:35):
Yeah. What a great season to practice one
thing at a time.

Andy Withrow (07:40):
Yep. It's with advent. slowdown. One thing at a
time. Great, Andy, which, whichI understand. Some people might
hear that and say I can't. I'msure I get it. Yeah. Good point.
It's hard to slow down.

Vanessa Caruso (07:57):
Okay, number two. Okay. All right. Moving on.

Andy Withrow (08:01):
That's number one.
Make Advent matter again. Numbertwo on Vanessa's.

Vanessa Caruso (08:07):
I'll just say about matter. Matter is the
stuff you know, like this desk,this water bottle. So in a way
I'm talking about like, bring itdown to earth

Andy Withrow (08:17):
make mad or make me get matter. Double? Yeah,
like it. See. Mama. Gosh, youbury the lead. Can

Vanessa Caruso (08:26):
Okay, number two. Number two. This phrase
bids for attention. I heard itin a podcast with the Goldmans.
Do you know the Goldmans?
They're both counselors. Theylive in Oregon. They're great.
They have a new book

Andy Withrow (08:40):
out seven principles that make marriage
work. Yes. Yeah, we've usedthat. You use that? Yeah. For
sure. Yeah. For marriage class.
Wow. That's good stuff. Elainerecommended that

Vanessa Caruso (08:50):
amazing. Okay, so they were in a podcast and
talking about bids forattention. And I just loved the
phrase bids for attention andwhat to do about bids for
attention. So a bid forattention is when and when we're
trying to get someone'sattention, affirmation
affection, or any other kind ofconnection. So the example is

(09:13):
like, if your partner says like,oh, wow, look at this cool
hummingbird. What, how are yougoing to respond to that? Are
you going to turn toward thatbid for attention? Are you going
to turn away by notacknowledging it just go on
typing? Are you going to turnagainst it by saying something
actually like oh, you're you'realways interrupting me or

(09:33):
whatever? Birds? Yeah.

Andy Withrow (09:35):
Okay, so can you say the thing again, like what's
the what's the number two isbids for attention bids for
attention? Pay attention towait, no. Yeah.

Vanessa Caruso (09:47):
Okay, well, how would I say it? I'm thinking of
bids for attention versus bidsfor

Andy Withrow (09:57):
in attention.

Vanessa Caruso (09:59):
I wish It was that easy. It's more like bids
for purchase bids for attractdistraction. Okay, like
everything else this season andin our lives that our art
dinging

Andy Withrow (10:10):
was connected with the one thing at a time it does
sing, it's really like inintention with your bids for
attention or something like that

Vanessa Caruso (10:19):
nice. I should have ran through this list with
you beforehand. Make it No, it's

Andy Withrow (10:23):
nice. It's fresh.
It's not rehearsed, folks. Thisis real

Vanessa Caruso (10:27):
in tension or bids for attention I share.
Okay, something like that.

Andy Withrow (10:32):
Well, tongue twister, but intentional, be
intentional with kids fortension.

Vanessa Caruso (10:40):
So you probably know their research that couples
who are successful, you know,who stayed together have
successful marriages, theyturned towards their partners
bids for connection 86% of thetime. So that's a high amount of
time they turned towards, whichis not getting up every time

(11:00):
someone says, look at this bird,and you're like, drop
everything, you have to go lookat the bird. But you might say,
Oh, just second, I'm just gonnafinish this text. And then you
go over. And oh, what do youlike about this bird? At 6% of
the time, people who aresuccessful in these
relationships do that. The otheris couples who are not
successful in their marriages,they only did turn toward 33% of

(11:23):
the time, otherwise, they turnedaway or turned against. I was
thinking more listening to thispodcast about God's bids for our
attention. And how often do Iturn toward it? Or do I just
ignore it? Because I can,because so much is invisible.
And nobody sees what's going onin my heart in my head, and

(11:44):
other people's bids forattention, not partners, but
friends, family members,children, strangers, people at
school pickup and drop offgrocery line, fellow grocery
line people, you know, it justmade me wonder, wow, is the
world full of bids for attentionin a really alive kind of way

(12:08):
versus all the bids forattention that are happening on
social media. And the way myphone is built to pull me in and
suck me away? I'm over

Andy Withrow (12:18):
that cutting the ding the notification ding Yes.

Vanessa Caruso (12:21):
And I want to be awake to these other bids for
attention.

Andy Withrow (12:25):
That's better be awake.

Vanessa Caruso (12:27):
Thank you.

Andy Withrow (12:28):
B. That's way better.

Vanessa Caruso (12:30):
Oh my gosh, we have Ba Ba Be awake bids for
attention, Baba.

Andy Withrow (12:36):
Like, for bids for Did you in you were talking
about even maybe a specialattention to God's bids for
attention? What would what wouldthat look like? What would God's
bids for attention?

Vanessa Caruso (12:48):
I think they happen a lot like a little
paying.

Andy Withrow (12:53):
I would assume that the Lord is near?

Vanessa Caruso (12:55):
It would. He has, you know, the little paying
twinge that you sometimes haveabout something you said or did
that just didn't feel quiteright. Or like should I follow
up on that? Should I apologize?
Was that true? Or like someonepops into your mind? And you're
like, Hmm, I have thought aboutthat person for a long time. Oh,

(13:16):
well. What if it's not an oh,well, what if there's something
there? Another bid would be formy own body? Like you know, I
Mike hobbling as I get out ofbed, because I've just been
working so much. Yeah. And nothaving margins, not trusting
God, he's

Andy Withrow (13:35):
giving you notifications? Oh,

Vanessa Caruso (13:37):
that's very obvious notification. Yeah. But
I'm like, whatever. I can pushthrough this. Those are all the
beds. I'm curious about.

Andy Withrow (13:45):
God speaks to you through your body at times.
Definitely.

Vanessa Caruso (13:48):
I really do.
What about?

Andy Withrow (13:51):
I've been wondering lately, because I've
been paying attention to try topay attention to anxiety. Yeah.
Which sometimes is sort of thisringing or buzzing in the
background? Yeah. Or, or evenlike a tightness that I carry in
my body like my shoulders or, ormy chest or my stomach? And I
don't it's not always I knowexactly what it is. But like I
noticed, like the firstindication is on tight. Yeah.

(14:16):
What's this about? Yeah. Andwhich is fascinating to me that
it's not on the front of my mindto not the things I make sure
are always on the front of mymind. But there's, there's
somewhere resident in my body.
Yeah. And I have to kind ofunlock it a little. Yeah. The
idea that, whether that'swhether that you could say that
that's God bringing that to myattention, like you've not let

(14:36):
something go. That needs to belet go or you're not dealt with
something that you need to havea conversation with me about.
That's how I'm starting tointerpret it in this season. I
love it's a helpful way to startto process it.

Vanessa Caruso (14:51):
I love that Andy. So, there is this whole
idea of focusing Have you heardof focusing it's Like a modality
is Yeah. So we're these Jesuitauthors who wrote, rediscovering
the last body connection andChristian spirituality. They

(15:12):
kind of bring together theology,spiritual formation and focusing
in that one of the practicesthey recommend is asking, in the
beginning of your prayer time.
What in my body today needs mymost loving attention. And it's
a conversation starter with God.
And so you just become aware oftightness, soreness, lightness,

(15:35):
you

Andy Withrow (15:35):
think you think God speaks to us through created
things like our body? Yes. Thesethings explicit, it's Advent
matter, again, matter all tiedtogether. It really is. So he's,
you would say, he'sincarnational. God,

Vanessa Caruso (15:53):
I would, Andy, you're so good at interpreting
me. Sure.

Andy Withrow (15:57):
everyone's on the same page. Good. Keep going.
Okay,

Vanessa Caruso (16:00):
so that's bids for attention. The last thing
about bids for attention is justthe reminder that most often the
words we need to hear, would yousay, Okay, how would you finish
that sentence? Oh, no, that'stoo hard. Most often, the words
we need to hear come throughanother human being come through
each other. I personally believethat to be true. Yeah. God does

(16:23):
speak, I would say most oftenthrough other people, versus
audibly to me. And so I feelthis great opportunity during
Advent, to be the mouthpiece,the body, the hand on the
shoulder, the presence thatsomebody else needs to hear,

(16:45):
because people are going to bethat for me. What God knows what
I need, and it's going to comethrough talking to you, do you
know what I mean? More than if Ilike go on a silent retreat for
seven days. More just like interms of a normal life?

Andy Withrow (17:00):
Yeah. Yeah, I like that. I think I'm Eve examples
of God speaking through peopleall the time. And sometimes
they're not aware. And sometimesthey're even antithetical to
God, but you can still use themto speak. Yeah. And so I think
there's wisdom and trustingpeople that you know, are, are

(17:24):
listening to God, speakingthoughtfully, and in with
wisdom. But even even sometimes,in casual conversations, you can
hear how I think God wasspeaking to me through that
exchange. It's learning tolisten and pay attention, and
being familiar with the voice ofGod or the voice of Jesus.

Vanessa Caruso (17:45):
Which we've talked a lot about. Yeah, that
is a theme of ours.

Andy Withrow (17:49):
Yeah, it's one of our favorite themes. Okay,
number three, make Advent matteragain. Number one, be awake to
God's bids for your attention.
Number two, good job numberthree on Vanessa's list of seven
not top seven, but seven forthis.

Vanessa Caruso (18:08):
Darkness isn't bad.

Andy Withrow (18:13):
Darkness isn't bad.

Vanessa Caruso (18:16):
There's this great new kids book, but it's
just as effectual for me, calledGod's holy darkness. And it's
pictures and words all about thebeautiful, necessary important
things that come from darkness.
And there's a lot of darknessand light themes and Advent like

(18:37):
this bright star shining againsta dark night womb. You know, a
womb is dark. And we don't knowwhat's happening in there. But
we trust something's growing.
But there is the I've becomeaware that there's the tendency
to associate or to put kind of ahierarchy as light is good, dark

(18:59):
is bad. And then the unfortunatecorrelation is whiteness is
better than blackness. So I reada translation of the Bible that
sometimes changes, darkness orblackness for bleakness. Just as
a way to try to get out of thatbinary that sometimes happens.

Andy Withrow (19:20):
The the biblical metaphor for darkness would be
confusion or deceit or not, notbeing it was just like the very
basic Yeah, well, you turn thelight on so you can see right
and understand what's happening.
Or you're walking in darkness.
Yeah, people who've walked indarkness have seen a great
light. But physical darkness inand of itself is a necessary

(19:44):
thing, right? For humanthriving.

Vanessa Caruso (19:49):
Yeah. Which I just want to be getting a good
night's sleep example. Right?
It's huge. It's like the bedrockof everything else getting
slammed into a dark room. Sothere's this TED Talk. I want to
watch during Advent about theneed for. It's in my guide, like
the need for darkness, the humanneed for darkness and then I
want to take a walk at night,because I just want to start

(20:09):
undoing that kind of built in.
What is it called binary I haveor whatever that light is good.
Dark is bad. I just want tolike, kind of untangle that and
become more open to darkness notso not so quick to get out of it

(20:34):
or to rush out of it.

Andy Withrow (20:36):
Okay, but what does this have to do with I've
been?

Vanessa Caruso (20:39):
Because it's, it's winter.

Andy Withrow (20:42):
It's the darkest part of the year. Yeah. For us
in the northern hemisphere. Itis.

Vanessa Caruso (20:45):
I know Australia is like getting ready for some
sort of Australia I'd be alittle bit alienated by I'm
sorry about that. I loveAustralians. So I guess it's
Advent because there's waitingand Advent. So there is kind of
like, there's kind of thisshadow cast over the four weeks,
it says, you know, there's a lotof uncertainty Oh, I didn't say

(21:07):
this part. So my spiritualdirector did a talk on
uncertainty recently. And so heshared with me that kind of his
main metaphor for thespirituality of uncertainty is a
shoreline. And he said theinvitation is to learn to stand

(21:28):
on the edge there were on youknow, behind us on the sand or
on land is certainty andknowledge. The ocean kind of
represents mystery anduncertainty. And, and the
tension is learning how to standon the shore. Sometimes we need
to step back and like get ourbearings and be like, whew, this
is intense. Sometimes we need totake a quick ocean dip. Yeah,

(21:49):
get revitalized and like immerseourselves in mystery, but
learning how to stand on theshore. Well, and I just loved
that idea.

Andy Withrow (21:58):
Yeah, I like that.
The, I think the comfort ofknowing the comfort of darkness
is the comfort of Gods of Godsmystery, which we need because
God has to necessarily be way,way, way, way bigger than us and
and our hopes and our dreams, orelse. God is not big enough.
Yeah. And so I think that's the,for me, that's sort of the

(22:22):
corollary of this is the comfortof that bigness of God knowing
what's in the light as well asthe was revealed is His goodness
and His compassion as far as hislove the gospel. And knowing
that you get that faithfulnessand that promise so the things
that we don't see, we don't wedon't to worry about, but we're
also celebrating because itpoints to something way bigger.

(22:44):
Yeah, and unsearchable in God'sbigness and goodness. Which is
fun. Look

Vanessa Caruso (22:52):
at you just like riffing on the spot. Yeah, so
beautifully.

Andy Withrow (22:56):
Set me up.
Darkness isn't bad. Yep.

Vanessa Caruso (23:00):
Are you ready for number four?

Andy Withrow (23:01):
Okay, so we got make up and matter again, be
awake to God's bids forattention and darkness isn't
bad. Pointing to Dr. realities.

Vanessa Caruso (23:14):
Geez. I sent her on. December number four,
December

Andy Withrow (23:18):
number four on Vanessa's list of seven things
for this.

Vanessa Caruso (23:23):
December is sad.
Of course, it's not only sad,but we have plenty of songs and
propaganda, and advertisementstelling us it's the most
wonderful time of the year. Andthat if we were like everyone
else, we would feel happy andfeel joy and be excited about

(23:43):
our lives and who we're going tosee. So I just like remembering
that. It's okay to experiencesadness and Advent, there's
actually a lot of sadness in thebiblical Advent story leading up
to Jesus's birth and rightaround his birth. I mean,

(24:04):
there's weeping and mourning,because, you know, there's the
one baby who was born. And thenthere's all the children who
were murdered. Because of thatbaby being born. Like that's
intense. And that's like ourlives in our world today. Yeah,
there's miracles and there'slife and it's crazy how much

(24:27):
goes right in the universe. Andthere's so much that goes wrong.
So a favorite quote is from myfavorite Advent devotional
called all Creation weights.
It's about what animals do inwinter to survive. And she said,
the church history book that gotahold of me told me that my own

(24:47):
annual December sadness was noreason for guilt. It was a sign
of being wide awake in theworld, awake enough to sense
loss, and there was a way toengage that sadness and that way
was Advent. So that's abeautiful invitation to Advent
to me just to compliment all thejoyful, happy shiny ones yet

(25:11):
already out there.

Andy Withrow (25:12):
Yeah. So Aven is the season of waiting and
anticipation tapping into deeperlongings unfulfilled in you
know, temporarily in our in ourtime and space, and that may not
be fulfilled at Christmas or, ornext year or the year after
that. But the promises and God'sgoodness and faithfulness that

(25:35):
they are true, truly deepestlongings will be fulfilled in
what Christmas points to. So, ifyou feel sad, during there's a
sadness during Advent than youare in rhythm with the season.
Yeah. And to connect that to adeeper longing for God's coming,

(25:57):
and justice and peace andgoodness. And fulfillment is, is
where the season orientedparallels Lent, for Easter, the
six weeks leading up to Easterwhere there is tapping into this
deeper longing, anticipation ofwhat God is going to do to make
things right again in our ownindividual lives. And then in
our world.

Vanessa Caruso (26:18):
Again, Andy, yes. When you said, tapping into
that longing, or letting thelonging point us, you know, even
preparing our kids for the crashthat happens. Christmas Day,
afternoon after opening presentsa lot of excitement. But then
there's always for most of us,at least there was for me as a

(26:40):
kid, just this like, that's it.
Like I was like, so excited forso long. And now I have all this
stuff around me. And it's notactually filling that hole in my
heart. So that we can talk aboutthat with our kids. But when you
talked about connecting thatlonging with like, embracing it
for a longing that will befulfilled, it reminded me of
being hungry and thirsty the waywe are. And let's like there's

(27:02):
more of a fasting Association inLent than an Advent. But I've
heard of people taking on fastsof sort during advantage.

Andy Withrow (27:14):
I think and I think if you're a worship
leader, I think the there's anencouragement to not overplay or
too early play the the Christmascarols. I mean, it's sort of the
way that we've gone but it's nottraditionally the way it's done.
And I know that there's some waynot getting around that but to
at least salt into your yourSunday worship gatherings, some

(27:36):
lament and some mourning andsome of the classic Advent hymns
or songs, contemporary songs tothat you can find that kind of
play that note that give peoplepermission to bring their
sadness and longings intoworship. Because that's a note
that a good chunk of the churchin North America has not played
super well, because we were sortof this tendency to go, go

(28:00):
positive and go happy. But ifyou read through the Psalms,
which is our, you know, Israel'shymn book that gives us a lot of
direction in how to shape ourworship gatherings, there's a
lot of lament and a lot ofsadness there, that God desires
us to bring into the worshipmoment. is there's a lot of
great things that can happen. Ilove that.

Vanessa Caruso (28:23):
Pope Francis said, sometimes tears are the
glasses, we need to see Jesus.
And I like that, particularlythinking about Christmas,
because we're thinking aboutlike welcoming Jesus, seeing
Jesus and I like the permissionthat if you have literal tears,
or you just feel down, or youfeel like something's missing,

(28:44):
that it's not becausesomething's wrong with you, you
know? Yeah, like you said, yourinstep actually, with the season
to be experiencing some of thosethings, especially if you're
able to kind of see where theytake you and how they can take
you to God.

Andy Withrow (29:03):
Great, okay, that's for four. Okay, we got
make, that doesn't matter.
Again, God bids for bewarebecause bids for our attention.
Darkness isn't bad. December issad. And number five

Vanessa Caruso (29:16):
is related.
Number five, is read the room.
I've just liked that phrase. Youknow, like when you start using
words more, in some seasons, allof a sudden, you're like, wow,
I've said explicit, like, everyday for a week. I wonder why. I
like noticing that there'ssomething about the Word

(29:36):
explicit that is mine that Ijust say more than I ever used
to. A phrase that comes up forme more than it used to is read
the realm. I think it's aparenting situation for me,
where my son's at a stage whereI feel like saying that
sometimes because of a lack ofawareness of other people. And I
feel like saying like read theround now. So it's just it's

(29:59):
just on the forefront of mymind, but in Advent, I want to
remember as like a spiritualleader type person that I am to
read the room. One time I wenton a women's retreat. And the
passage chosen to kind of focuson it wasn't an adventure was
Elizabeth and Mary, which mightmake sense. But there was 20 of

(30:20):
us. And we all knew each other.
And there were a couple of womenwho struggled with infertility,
and pregnancy loss. And then afew more that just had the
unfulfilled desire to bepartnered, pregnant and have a
family. And that was verypainful that the focus on that
passage for a women's retreat, Ifeel like we didn't read the

(30:42):
room, and I was part of theleadership for that. So that
that made an impression on me.
Like, I don't want to make thatmistake. Again, an Advent is
just a season with a ton offamily, baby pregnancy womb.
Themes. And so it's just on mylist, personally as like, think

(31:05):
think before I speak, Vanessa,when I lead in prayer, or
welcome people at church or thesermon, do you know what I mean?
Want to Read the room? Like, whoam I talking to? What stage of
life? Are they in? Are they inthe same one as me? No, not
everyone is? I don't want toalienate people who are not

(31:25):
exhausted. Yeah, for example.

Andy Withrow (31:27):
Yeah. Yeah, that's good sensitivity to who you're
talking to, whether individuallyor in a group and how things
will be received. I mean, yeah,same thing with just
hypothetically speaking, ifsomeone was raising like a
teenage daughter, then it's likelearning some things that are

(31:51):
counterintuitive, like how tolisten better and not kind of go
from go from dad mode parentmode of, oh, here's what you do.
Or here's the advice, or here'sthe parenting thing to know that
note, the primary note right nowin this season is Be a good
listener, and seek to be someonewho understands something

Vanessa Caruso (32:12):
that must take a lot of self components.

Andy Withrow (32:15):
That as a parent, you have to learn to play after
they have a long season ofplaying other notes very loudly.
Yeah. Because this person is anew phase in a new stage. And
there's there's a differentrelationship, emerging fast, and
it's easy to miss. I'd like totalk more about that. Sometime.
Maybe a podcast podcast episodeis all hypothetical. People deal

(32:37):
with

Vanessa Caruso (32:37):
teenagers, but we can learn spiritual formation
for being with teens. Okay, thatwas five.

Andy Withrow (32:44):
I have two more.
Okay, number six.

Vanessa Caruso (32:48):
Buying won't save us

Andy Withrow (32:52):
to nice. Is it?
Double? Yeah. Okay. Well,

Vanessa Caruso (32:54):
I kind of stole it

Andy Withrow (32:56):
buying won't save us double meeting?

Vanessa Caruso (33:02):
How was it a double meaning?

Andy Withrow (33:03):
Well, if you buy stuff you're not saving.

Vanessa Caruso (33:06):
I didn't even touch that. That was just
natural, wet buying stuff. Saveyou. Yeah, I meant save your
soul won't save ourselves won'tsave your bank account won't,
which is a really good point. Sothat's just something I'm very
excited about this Advent,there's this conversation
happening on anti consumerism.
It's like virtual is December13. It's in my guide, and I

(33:28):
signed up for it. And I'm justexcited to use a Wednesday or
whatever it is, in December, tohave a conversation with people
around North America, about howdo we resist consumerism?
Because I need help. I like havelots of ideals. And then I buy
something from Amazon and Idon't know what to do. You know,

(33:50):
that kind of conundrum. Do youknow what you're talking about?
But I took that line from anexcerpt from Robin wall
Kimmerer, who wrote braidingsweetgrass, this is an essay she
wrote not braiding sweetgrass,but she talks about she has an
essay on scarcity, gift economy.

(34:12):
And one of her lines in it ishoarding won't save us. All
flourishing was mutual. And it'sjust a crowded time of year,
like the lists of nieces andnephews to buy something for
stocking stuffers. Adventpractices. Yeah. Parties

Andy Withrow (34:31):
is difficult because a lot of people want you
got a lot of people whose lovelanguage is gift giving. And and
I think it's often shorthand fora lot of things, especially in
long distance relationships thatwe can't otherwise do or have
the resources to give. But thisis something that we can we can
give. So it's a really trickyone. You're right.

Vanessa Caruso (34:54):
There is love and relationship and connection
behind it. It's not justconsumers and for the sake of
like Black Friday.

Andy Withrow (35:00):
Yeah, but it is kind of implicated and all that
stuff. Yeah. disentangleeverything. Yeah.

Vanessa Caruso (35:08):
Okay, are you ready for seven? In No, no
particular

Andy Withrow (35:12):
importance of order number seven. So this
isn't your top one. No, it'snot. Isn't your This isn't your
bottom one either? No, it's justone.

Vanessa Caruso (35:20):
It's just fine.
Okay, this

Andy Withrow (35:21):
is number seven on Vanessa's All Time list for
dishpan. Eben, at least ofAdvent things to think about or
practices. Ready?

Vanessa Caruso (35:30):
Yeah. Number seven. Okay. Quit Advent.

Andy Withrow (35:35):
This is everything you've just been talking

Vanessa Caruso (35:38):
about Advent matter again and then quit it.
Was it so admin doesn't matter?
No, it does. But us doing it.
Well, profound ly simply.
Beautifully happily. Does.
Doesn't matter. Okay.

Andy Withrow (35:56):
Okay. Yeah, go on.
Okay. I'm intrigued.

Vanessa Caruso (35:58):
Okay, so my favorite thing I've I've
discovered recently quitting.
No, yeah. Quitting exercise.
Have you ever? Yeah.
experiences, I just realizedit's one of the best feelings in
the world. I go through thesecycles of like, okay, I need to
be active. Yeah. So I thinklike, Okay, I'm going to walk

(36:19):
every day for half an hour. OrI'm going to jog three times a
week, or I'm gonna do yoga onYouTube for 15 minutes a day.
And I like stay in that zone fora little bit. And I'm like,
Yeah, and so every day, I'mlike, okay, is today an active
day or not? Okay. Yes, no, yes.
Now, when I realized thishappens every couple months, I
don't have to do it. I couldjust quit it. It's just like the

(36:41):
best feeling in the worlddeciding that I'm not going to
care anymore. About beingactive, until I start, like
feeling sore. anxious, and I'mlike, Oh, I probably should be
active again. And then we startback up the cycle, but it's this
sweet. Couple of weeks. Yeah.
For two months of when I quitexercise. Yeah. So I invite you
to try that.

Andy Withrow (37:02):
Yeah, I like that.
It's nice. It's a I see thethings that made me think it was
like a reset on Advent or like,for me, a lot of this kind of
stuff is a chance to reevaluatemy approach to something. So
maybe I'm coming at this allwrong. Maybe I need to quit it
and come back to it again, fresha different time and say, Is
there a new way to experiencethis? That doesn't cause anxiety

(37:22):
and stress and death? Andwhatever else? Yeah. Whatever
else? Am I putting too much?
Yeah, stuff on myself. For thismoment?

Vanessa Caruso (37:35):
Yeah. Yeah, I love reset. Like, just knowing
that that's possible. Like, Idon't have my Advent isn't
doomed? If I didn't start ityet, or if I bit off more than I
can chew. And now I feeloverwhelmed. I don't have to
like fake it till I make it.
There is built in to ourtheology that Jesus does do the

(37:57):
saving. Yes, that I can fail,quote, unquote, fail, quote,
unquote, give up and quit, andstill be loved. And sometimes
it's just like a sweet relief.
It's like the best news in theworld that if I don't go to that

(38:19):
thing I said, I would go to, Idon't want to like ghost
anything. I don't think that'sthe way to do it. But like, last
night, I said, I would go tosomething and then I just really
didn't want to. And so I waslike, No, I'm doing it. And
Stephen was like, Is thereanything like, let's think
through this? Is there a way ofbeing honest and respectful? And
not going and it took couragefor me to do it because I don't

(38:40):
want to be flaky. But it was ait was a relational moment. It
strengthened the relationship alittle bit to say, hey, here's
what's going on for me. Andhere's what I'm worried about. I
really could use tonight forsomething this other thing. So
it was vulnerable, but it was areset. It was like a stepping
back, like you said and sayingwait a second. Like I aimed to

(39:05):
get in touch with my longing andmy need for God at Christmas. Am
is all the stuff I'm trying todo. Is it? Is it taking me
there? Is it? Am I still aimingin that direction? Or do I need
to let some things go? Or toexperience forgiveness and grace
from people? Yeah. That might bepart of it. Yeah.

Andy Withrow (39:25):
Yeah, like that. I think, to kind of bring it back
full circle to make Adventmatter again. It makes me think
of that balance between lettingthe season or the community or
the liturgy, carry you when youneed to, and then figuring out
what's my role. I tell a lot ofnew parents or parents who just

(39:49):
had kids at the table, like yourjob is just to show up. You have
no other job, because it takesso much energy when you've got
new kids and multiple youngkids. Like you Don't expect you
to wash dishes or lead a groupor do anything, like just show
up when you can. And if you can,and be present as present you
can with with kids hanging offof you and, and all that sort of

(40:12):
thing like that's, that's thethat's the assignment for the
season and then, and then whenthere's more capacity to engage
at a different level

Vanessa Caruso (40:22):
we'll talk then.
That's wonderful.

Andy Withrow (40:25):
So it's nice to be able to go back and hit the
reset button and say, I'm goingto quit with my own expectations
and other people's expectationson this season or this moment or
this thing, and then come backat it again, with with fresh
eyes in a new way. We did it, wedid it. Seven,

Vanessa Caruso (40:42):
seven things about that.

Andy Withrow (40:46):
So next time, we're gonna come back and we'll
aim to do part two of thespiritual formation direction.
Sorry, spiritual direction. Likenuts, get started nuts and
bolts. So back and we didn'ttalk about this. I can't
remember. Are we going to it'sDecember. Yeah, we have time to
do this. Do you have time tocome back? Yeah. So we'll try to
do this before before the NewYear. One more episode.

(41:09):
Probably. Yeah, wrap up theScripture section. Okay, great.
Thank you next time. Bye.