December 5, 2024 • 37 mins
To mark the European heavyweights from Dublin's visit to Ashton gate on Sunday, former Bristol Bear and Leinster player Ian Madigan joins us for an episode packed with insights and nostalgia.
He shares treasured memories from his time at Bristol, revealing what it was like to play under Pat Lam's leadership and how it shaped his approach to rugby. We also talk about Ian's transition to life off the field, where he's now navigating the worlds of television and marketing, and the exciting news of expecting his first child.
Plus, Ian spills the beans on Leinster's strategies ahead of their Champions Cup face-off with the Bears, giving fans something to chew on before the big game.
And he thinks Jordie Barrett will play.
Ever wondered what goes into making a rugby commentator tick? We also discuss the art of punditry with Ian as he outlines the delicate balance between live analysis and setting expectations pre-match. Ian reflects on his journey from Bordeaux to Bristol, motivated by Pat Lam's compelling team vision, and shares insights into the changing dynamics between top leagues and the English championship. His anecdotes about building a team from the ground up offer a rare glimpse into the challenges and rewards of creating a winning dynamic, even if that meant playing in driving snow at Rotherham in front of one man and his husky.
So grab a pint of the dark stuff (Guinness or even BBF nitro stout) and join us for a stroll down memory lane as Mads takes us through unforgettable moments with the Bristol Bears, highlighting the camaraderie and mentorship that defines the sport, the competitive edge between the Pro 14 and the English Premiership, and the pressures faced by coaches in these high-stakes environments.
As we wrap up with anticipation for the upcoming Leinster match, it's clear that the ties within the rugby community run deep, and the bonds formed on and off the pitch are what truly make the journey worthwhile.
Cheers to the weekend and the enduring spirit of rugby!...
Up the European bears!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
you're listening to bears beyond the gate, a bristol
bears podcast made by fans forfans, with three season card
holders at ashton gate.
You love the club, the game andall things bears.
Well, this is something alittle bit different a midweek
pod, but to mark the start ofthe champions cup and the
arrival of heavywe Leinster tothe gate, we managed to secure
(00:27):
an interview with ex-BristolBear, ex-leinster, ex-ireland
and general all-round good guy,ian Madigan.
Miles.
Me and Lee managed to catch upwith him earlier on tonight and
had a fascinating chat with himabout his time at the Bears,
what he's been doing since heretired, his thoughts on the way
that we're playing this seasonand, of course, his insight into
(00:50):
the sort of team that Leinsterare going to bring on Sunday and
the game plan that they willtry to execute.
It was a great chat.
We really appreciate the timehe gave up, so sit back, listen
and enjoy, okay, so I'm reallyexcited to invite and welcome I
should say, uh former bristolplayer ian madigan to bears
(01:14):
beyond the gate.
So, mad sir, really reallyappreciate you coming on and, uh
, thanks for coming to talk tous, are you well?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Yeah, delighted to be on.
Guys great to meet you inperson, pete Miles and Lee
delighted to come on.
I absolutely love my threeyears playing for playing for
Bristol and at the midpoint weturned into the Bears.
But yeah, fond memories from mytime there still follow the
club really closely and friendswith lots of the players still.
(01:46):
So, yeah, delighted to come onand share my thoughts ahead of
the game this weekend.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Oh, brilliant.
Well, no, we really appreciateit and I mean, that is one of
the reasons why we got incontact with you as a former
Leinster player.
We were going to ask you forsome of your insight for the
game on Sunday, but I justthought actually for our
listeners, because there'll be alot of fans out there that will
remember you fondly.
Obviously, you left us I thinkit was 2020 you left the Bears
(02:11):
and obviously had a little bitof a.
You extended your career atUlster for a little bit and then
then retired in 2023.
So I was wondering if you couldjust give us a quick kind of
whistle-stop tour of your lifesince you left Bristol, what it
was like playing at Ulster andthen why you decided to retire
and what you're doing now.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Yeah, so I had three years with Ulster.
We nearly got over the line,winning the league one of the
years just fell short in thesemifinal and good first season
after having left the Bears play, I think about 20 times times.
And then the two seasons afterthat played, you know, between
(02:48):
five and ten times each of thoseseasons and, um, the younger
guys were beginning to pass meout at a rapid rate and the body
was creaking a bit um, um.
So, yeah, I felt it was, it wasthe right time for me to to
call it and um, you know, Iturned professional pretty young
, so I'd had a good 13, 14 yearsat it at that stage and played
(03:09):
a lot of games, so ready for thenext stage of life, um, so now
I'm working for um, I work onthe tv with premier sports, who
cover uh, and virgin, who coverlarge parts of it in ireland,
whether it's the urc orchampions cup or some of the
internationals with with virgin.
And then my day job is with thedata ships where I head up a
sales team there.
Uh, we do marketing compliancefor e-commerce stores where we
(03:32):
sit at the checkout.
Um, and, yeah, from a familypoint of view, my wife anna, who
was with me in bristol's.
Uh, we're expecting our firstbaby in the next month, so, uh,
exciting times on that frontwell, congratulations, great
cheers, guys.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Thank you, we've, we've, uh, we've all got well.
We've got two daughters each,because that's how we know each
other through our kids.
So, uh, no way, they're allabout kind of 15.
So, uh, we know what you've gotcoming.
But uh do you know what you'rehaving no, we've left it a
surprise.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
So yeah, we'll find out soon.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Yeah, well, good luck with it all.
Anyway, let's move on.
Let's talk rugby.
So I thought we'd actually thengo back to the present and
obviously we've got this massivegame coming on Sunday Bears in
the Champions Cup but I've drawnLeinster at home.
I mean obviously you as aformer Leinster at home, I mean
obviously you as a formerLeinster player.
You know, have some real and Ipunned it, as you said.
You know we'll have some realinsight.
(04:27):
Obviously we are rugby fans aswell as Bears fans.
So it's a slight trepidationthat we're looking forward to
Leinster coming, but I'm justinterested in your thoughts.
You know the AutumnInternationals are now finished.
Players are back with theirclubs.
You know players are back withtheir clubs.
You know what?
What should us fans expect onSunday in terms of the sort of
(04:48):
team Leinster might put out andand the sort of game plan they
might execute?
Speaker 2 (04:51):
yeah, well, I think, first off, you know, as Bristol
fans and I think all four of usare still Bristol fans, uh, I
certainly am anyway.
So this is what you want.
You want the best teams comingto Ashton Gate.
You want to be, you know,coming and watching DePont and
Toulouse, and you know CaelanDorris from Leinster and you
know Jack Crowley from Munster,like that's what's going to draw
(05:13):
a big, big number.
You want to compare yourself tothe best and you know, for the
Irish teams, I'll tell you whatit is a big.
It is always a step up from theurc to europe.
Whereas when I played in france, when it was a top 14 week
versus a european week, youwouldn't necessarily notice a
massive change, um, from week toweek, because they want to win
(05:36):
the top 14 as bad as they wantto win europe.
Quite often, um, it does varyslightly from club to club.
Ronan O'Gara is certainlychanging that mindset in La
Rochelle, but if you offered aLeinster player, would you like
a URC championship or would youlike to win the European
Champions Cup?
They would take the EuropeanChampions Cup every day of the
week.
Pat certainly changed thatfocus in the Bears when I was
(06:00):
there.
He put a good focus on Europe,albeit, look, we were competing
in the Challenge Cup.
But he he certainly put a bigfocus in my last year there and
he made it clear I really wantto win this competition, and
full credit to to Bristol.
We did, you know, and um, I waspart of that before we got
broken up by COVID.
Um, but it was great to see theteam uh, winning that and, like
(06:22):
you think of the, theprogression that bristol have
had over the last few years.
Like when I was there we wereobviously in the championship in
my first year.
I remember lenster a comingover and playing the bristol
first team.
I didn't play in that game, Ithink I was injured at the time
and, um, I think lenster a wonthe game, you know, and they did
(06:44):
a good side with lots of youngplayers.
Like we're now competing withthe top teams in Europe, like
that's how much the club hasprogressed.
You know we're sitting at thevery top or I think it's maybe a
point off of the EnglishPremiership and we've earned the
right.
You know, to compete with thevery best From Leinster's
standpoint, like playing Bristolthis week is, you know, to
(07:05):
compete with the very best FromLeinster's standpoint, like
playing Bristol this week is.
You know, europe is done inblocks.
It's a two game block.
They've got Bristol away andthey've Claremont at home.
Like Leo Cullen will be lookingat Bristol away and going that
is a banana skin.
That is going to be a reallytough game.
I need to get my big guns outfor that.
And I fully expect him to beasking caitlin doris and um josh
(07:29):
vanderfleer and porter.
He'll be saying to these guyslook, I need you this week and I
may be able to rotate you outfor claremont next week.
And you, look, I'll get you arest over christmas at some
stage, whether it's boxingdaying Day or New Year's Day,
you will get a breather.
But I'm telling you thatLeinster are taking this game
(07:52):
really seriously and they'regoing to have all the big guns
out this weekend.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Yes, yeah that's kind of it, that is exciting.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
But I mean, no, you're right, you're absolutely
right.
I mean this is kind of you knowwhy we're fans.
But I mean you're right, you'reabsolutely right.
I mean this is kind of you knowwhy we're fans.
We want the big clubs to comeand it has taken a couple of
seasons for us to feel likewe're getting back to that stage
again, after the kind ofexcitement post-COVID.
I mean, geordie Barrett, do youhave any insight, knowledge, do
you think he's going to play?
Speaker 2 (08:18):
I think Geordie plays .
Yeah, I think he will mostlikely play on the right wing,
would be my shout.
I think they're going to wanthim to get up to speed on the
attacking systems.
The defensive systems build hiscohesion as a player.
What I can guarantee you thathe will offer on the wing is
he's fantastic in the air, hekicks the ball well and he's
going to be rock solid indefence.
(08:39):
So you can fit him in thereseamlessly, whereas fitting him
in at 12, there's a lot more tolearn, a lot more cohesiveness
that that that he needs to betin um.
The other option is that theyplay him number 23, for example,
and they use him on the 50minute mark, depending on how
the game is going um, and itwill.
It will be dependent on howwell he's settled in, like if
(09:00):
he's, if he's firing on allcylinders and he's fully fit,
they will, they will roll him inum yeah well, let's hope he's
firing on all cylinders and he'sfully fit.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
they will roll him in .
Yeah Well, let's hope he's beenwatching the videos of Gabs.
Ibitoyi and also Joe Owen.
Yeah.
Our young lad was on the wingagainst Quinns and skinned their
winger.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah, quick question why wasn't Ibitoyi included in
the English squad?
I know he played in the A game,but it just didn't make sense
to me.
Boys, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Boy.
Has he got any ideas on that?
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Well, I think just at the beginning part of the
season, I think defensivelythere was probably a couple of
question marks, but I think he'sdefinitely ironed that out of
his game and, like Pat said onthe weekend, he gives England a
different option, somethingspecial, and I don't know why
he's not in that squad now.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
Yeah, you're right.
I feel like people just don'tknow how to play him anymore.
He's improved under the highball, so I mean surely moving
forward, he's got to be up therefor contention, I agree.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
The trouble is for Baris, his remit for Baris.
He's the lone ranger, he's thefree man, so he's so hard to
defend against.
But he won't get that in anEngland shirt and that's the
problem.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Yeah, no, and that's fair.
But yeah, I'd love to see himplaying for England.
Absolutely Himself and Mbosawould be a good combo.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Just going back to your comment that you obviously
are doing some work for previoussports as well.
I mean, are you coming to thegame on sunday as a pundit, or
is that?
Uh, is that still under wraps?
Speaker 2 (10:31):
yeah, no, I was.
I was supposed to be doing the,uh, doing the commentary, which
I was really looking forward to, but, as it transpires with
with anna, it's just, it's tooclose.
I I would have had to fly out,I think, on a saturday evening
and fly back on a monday, so, uh, we had to make the executive
decision, which was the toughone, uh, not to do it.
So I think that it could beimminent, so, um, but yeah, look
(10:54):
, well, I'll be there.
I'll be there for the returnfixture and I'll make sure to do
bristol justice when I'm on thecomms there I was going to say
you might be there.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
you know when we get there, when we get there, but
anyway, that too.
I've got one last questionbefore I move over to Miles.
It's just about the punditryactually, because obviously, as
you say, you've got a day joband you know it sounds great.
But when you do do a game, Imean, how much prep are you
expected to do and kind ofwhat's the process?
Do they expect you to do kindof a lot of analysis up front or
(11:24):
do you just basically just wingit?
Speaker 2 (11:28):
No, I've always been more on the analysis side and
the preparation side.
It depends.
I do both the punditry or thecommentary.
So the commentary if you'rewith the league commentator,
like they're going to know youknow the centre's granny's name
and how many caps they've got,like that's not my job, you know
, and they're typicallycommentating when the ball is in
(11:49):
play.
When the ball's out of play,and the irish commentators have
a slightly different structureto the, the english ones and, um
, the likes of flatman andaustin healy have a different
style again, um, who arefantastic, by the way um, but so
I would typically come in whenball is out of play.
I'm in explaining what happenedor what I expect to happen.
(12:09):
You know how teams are settingup defensively and and that
stuff comes to me quitenaturally, like I can see it and
I can commentate it.
There's not a whole lot of prepneeded for that.
But for the punditry, like the30 or 40 minutes before a match,
like that's probably thetoughest part of it, because
half time looks after itselfwith the tries that are scored
or who has played.
Well, same with post-match, but40 minutes beforehand you're
(12:32):
teeing up what you expect tohappen and I think if you wing
that, you get found out, youneed to have some packs.
You know, this is how bristlehave been attacking this season
the variation they've shown intheir game and you're teeing up
what the people watching thegame are expecting to see then
off the back of it.
So I enjoy it Like I've learneda lot.
I've obviously been doing itnow for the guts of two years
(12:54):
and learned a huge amount andthey're great Like they give you
feedback on what's what theylike and what they don't like
and don't be vanilla and um.
These are the stats packs andum.
So, yeah, learn.
It's still learning a lot tolearn nice one.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Well, miles I'll pass over to you.
Now you can ask yeah, I'll aska few questions.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
Thanks, man.
So let's sort of step back intime a bit, uh, way back to the
start of the patlam era, uh, youknow, as soon as it became the
Bears.
I just wondered how did thatsigning come about, and how on
earth did he persuade you tocome over and play in what was
the championship then?
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Yeah, well, as I'm sure you guys have come to learn
, Pat is a pretty compelling guy.
You know I'd like to have himon my sales team if I could.
You know he just put together agood case.
Look, ultimately I'd obviouslycome from playing in Leinster,
gone to Bordeaux on a two-yeardeal that year.
(13:57):
The second half of it it startedto kind of fall apart.
I got injured, the team hadlost form.
I think they were on to theirthird coach in the year and Pat
basically reached out and saidlook, I'm moving from Connacht
to Bristol.
This is the vision that I have.
I think we're going to besitting at the top table.
(14:20):
It's going to obviously take usa year to get there back into
the premiership.
This is the new facility thatwe're building.
The likes of luke morahan aregoing to sign steve, steve
luatua, chris vuitton, um johnafoa.
You know like it was.
It was a pretty compelling caseand it was do you want to come
and be part of a, you know, ajourney onto something special?
(14:43):
And I believed him when hepitched it and, as it transpired
, he was true to his word.
I would have liked to haveplayed more, especially in the
last year of my Bristol contract, but I certainly don't regret
making that decision.
I love my time at the club andum.
(15:05):
It was a journey yeah,absolutely.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
I mean, you know what was that first season?
Like we were playing at some uhpretty small grounds around
around england, weren't we?
And something?
I mean we went up to heartbury.
That was pretty tough going,just getting in and out for fans
.
I mean, did you enjoy goingback to that sort of level of
rugby or was it a bit of a stepdown from what you had been
playing?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Yeah, like there's no getting away from it.
It was a big step down.
I think Ireland were competingfor a Grand Slam game or a final
game to win a Six Nations, andI was playing up north, I think
it was.
Maybe could have been DoncasterActually it wasn't Doncaster,
because Doncaster is actuallypretty nice compared to some of
the other places we've played.
(15:49):
Doncaster is actually lovely,but where were we playing?
Speaker 4 (15:54):
Did you play the match where it was snowing
pretty much?
Yeah the snow, yeah that wasthe.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Where was that again?
Speaker 4 (16:01):
I'm trying to think.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
I'm trying to think somewhere out there yeah, it'd
be somewhere like, yeah, theNorth West, but it was the worst
conditions we should have done.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
We should have done our research our research on
that, absolutely, but yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
So I remember and, like I was playing in front of
you know a man and a dog thatday Ireland are competing to win
the Six Nations.
You're still thinking you're atthe foundations of a game plan
that was going to see us through.
You know, climbing up thepremiership table, um, and
hopefully trying to compete ineurope, and um, look, you're
(16:34):
going on the road.
You're, you're winning mostweeks, if not close to every
week.
Um, you're in training.
You're building week on week,as opposed to if you're in you
know a top league and you'rewinning one week, losing another
week.
You're in training, you'rebuilding week on week, as
opposed to if you're in, youknow a top league and you're
winning one week, losing anotherweek.
You're always kind of creatinga game plan to just get you over
the line each week, as opposedto having 12 months to really
(16:55):
build a system that you can relyon.
And ultimately we did that andlike it was an achievement, um,
finishing.
I think it was seventh oreighth where we finished in my
first year in the premiership um, off the back of bristol, being
typically a yo-yo team getpromoted, get relegated, get
promoted, get relegated.
Um, and yeah, being part ofthat was, was, um, was,
(17:19):
enjoyable yeah, great.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
I mean, what were your sort of memorable moments
in a Bristol shirt?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Well, that one, getting the snow in was
certainly a memorable one.
Like that year in thechampionship, while we had some
real superstars, there was otherreally good teams and it wasn't
a formality that we werepromoted.
We nearly lost I.
(17:45):
I remember the first game ofthe season and then it still
came down to Ealing wereparticularly good that year
still came down to a crunch gamewhere we got over the line away
from home and I remember likeeven just getting into the last
20 minutes of the game we werewithin a score with lots of
teams like we scraped throughsome of those games and that was
(18:05):
.
They were fond memories.
Um, and then getting into thepremiership, like I remember
earlier on in that premiershipseason coming up against like
the likes of quins at home,lester at home, like they were
the like I always followed theenglish premiership when I was a
kid and like they're the teamsI wanted to be playing against
week in, week out, if I I wasn'tplaying interprovincial games.
(18:26):
And yeah, we trashed Leicesterand we beat Quinns pretty well
and yeah, we hit a bit of amid-season slump, but that was
to be expected.
It was a big step up physicallyand mentally for the entire
squad and I certainly wore a bitof that myself.
And then in the latter years,like kicking, kicking winners
(18:50):
against saris was was prettyspecial and, um, saints, I think
I got, yeah, got got one aswell.
So like when you get on the endof them, like you need a lot to
go your way and a bit of luckas well, uh, but you never
forget those moments, you know,and um, yeah, so moving on, but
maybe linked to that kicking.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
I mean, when you kick off the tee, um, we always joke
that it was good and you wouldimmediately turn away and start
running back.
Uh, so we actually assumed thatthe kick was good and you'd won
the ball.
I mean, was that something youdeveloped or did it ever go
wrong, as much as it was a gustof wind that blew it sideways at
all?
Speaker 2 (19:29):
I think with goal kicking, you know, it's largely
down to how much time you putinto it, especially in the early
part of your career.
But there does come a pointwhere you go you know what.
I think I figured this out, youknow, and that moment
definitely did hit for me,probably during my.
I didn't have it in Bordeaux.
I was a good goal kicker but itwasn't like I didn't have to
(19:50):
see where the ball was going.
There was times when I wasplaying for Bristol and I just
had total confidence in what Iwas doing off the tee and, yeah,
it was a nice feeling and theway we played as well.
The goal kicking was importantbecause we certainly weren't
scoring tries the way.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
Bristol.
Well, there were some closegames where you saved our bacon
on many occasions.
I think most fans will rememberabsolutely.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Yeah, sorry, the other thing I should have said,
another thing I got massivesatisfaction out of through my
time in Bristol, was mentoringsome of the younger players, the
likes of Johan Lloyd Lloyd inparticular, callum Sheedy, you
know, and going on to see himbecome an international.
The likes of Matt Prothero attimes, you know, harry Randall
the success he's had withEngland.
(20:35):
Andy Wren, going over toTreviso.
There was a lot of guys whowere actually, you know, they
were nearly probably the guts of10 years younger than me and
I'd had some good experiencesleading into that and was
certainly able to help them outand, yeah, still in contact with
a lot of those guys.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Shall, we Lee.
Do you want to dive in?
Speaker 3 (20:53):
Yeah, it's actually just.
That's seamlessly fitted intowhat I was just going to ask you
actually, Because weinterviewed Callum Sheedy and
Dan Thomas last week and Sheedswas actually saying about that
he found it more difficult toplay, you know, in the Pro 14
(21:16):
than it was in the EnglishPremiership.
What were your experience ofthat, Matt, Would you?
Speaker 2 (21:22):
agree with that.
It helps if you're playing forlenzer as opposed to cardiff,
like lenzer's squad depth isjust incredible.
Like they've um, I think thatthe guts of 45 senior players
but the quality of those seniorplayers is top-notch, and then
(21:45):
supplementing that is 25 academyplayers that I'd like to think
would make the 45 of any otherEuropean squad, maybe barring
the likes of Toulouse, LaRochelle, Saris.
So the reality is, with the URCyou've got the Munster Leinster
is.
With the URC you've got theMunster Leinster, the South
(22:08):
African sides and then one ofEdinburgh and Glasgow.
Depending on a given season,they are strong, really strong.
Ulster can have, you know, notat the moment but in previous
seasons certainly a top 18.
They may still be this year, butthey'll be scraping into it.
And then you know you'lltypically have one Welsh side
and this year it's Cardiff whoare the strong Welsh side.
(22:31):
But the difference between thetop half of the table and the
bottom half of the table in theURC is massive, whereas if you
look at the Premiership now,every team on a given week can
beat each other.
I know you could say look,Exeter and Newcastle are a bit
weaker this season, but they'llstill get their scalps this year
and you know you'll find nextyear they could suddenly be a
(22:52):
top four team, you know, and thesalary cap is great for that.
In the premiership, you know,every team is operating a salary
cap in around five or sixmillion I'm not sure what
exactly it is now but the or sixmillion, I'm not sure what
exactly it is now.
But the reality is, in the URC,the budget that Leinster has
versus what Zebra have, it's nowonder that Leinster are always
going to be top two and Zebraare always going to be bottom
(23:14):
two, because the resources theyhave is probably 5x or 10x, you
know, and that's probably thebig difference between the two
leagues.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
I mean on that basis.
I mean, obviously you've said,like you've watched the Bears at
times this season, I mean weare playing some incredible
rugby, the best rugby we've everseen in our lifetime.
I mean it's high quality, hightempo.
But do you feel in Europe wecan sustain that?
You know, is there a?
You know, is there a leaguetitle back home?
(23:46):
You know, home on the shelf,waiting for us?
What do you think from yourperspective now, outside,
looking in?
Speaker 2 (23:57):
I certainly think the game plan is sustainable to win
the Premiership this year.
There'll be no Irishman happierthan myself if you do.
The reality is, with the wayyou're playing it's not like
you're just, you know, throwingcaution to the wind, like it's
technically really impressivewhat you're doing, like if you
(24:20):
look at how your pods areoperating off nine.
It's not like it's just thiscrazy loose passing.
It's the variation.
You can still play it tight,but then there's other times
when you'll stretch that shapeout.
You might sense that thedefence aren't coming up.
Now's the time that we canstretch that shape and pull it
out the back and play that kindof double-double shape that
(24:40):
Bristol have always done reallywell, with players tucked and
turning around the corner late,where it's very hard to pick
them up from a defensiveperspective.
To be able to play that gamerequires a huge amount of work
and training and you also needto do it for a long time and
fail at it for a long timebefore it starts to click.
Bristol, for a large part, havebeen playing that way for the
(25:03):
last probably five or six years,barring maybe one season where
they they kind of changed andthe wheels started to come off
and I like, from looking fromthe outside in, I'm sure Pat
came under a bit of pressure andit looked like to me he goes.
You know what I'm underpressure here.
But if I'm going to go out, I'mgoing to go out my way and
(25:23):
we're going back to the Bristolway and the Pat Lamb way of
playing what's in front of you,and that is you can go through a
team, you can go over a team,you can go around a team, you
can beat a team at your kickinggame.
Play what's in front of you.
And it looks like Bristol aredoing that and doing that really
well.
(25:47):
On the point of like, how arethey going to fare up against
Leinster?
Leinster are, um, a side thatcan also play lots of different
ways, but typically when they'replaying away from home in
Europe they're going to play inthe right areas.
So if Bristol are going to doit, they're going to have to do
it from deep and if they make amistake, leinster are going to
make them pay big time.
Because if you make a mistake20 or 30 meters out from your
(26:08):
try line, that's three points,five point, seven points.
Each mistake you always pay.
When you're paying a side, likelenster, you make a mistake in
your own half.
They'll also go after bristolearly.
You know the their box kickinggame is something they rely on
heavily.
Their high kicks or Gary Owensoff 10 is something they rely on
(26:29):
and it's only really when theyget the attacking picture that
they like that they'll then pushthe button and you'll go geez,
leinster's attack is amazing,but they're very patient before
they pull the trigger on that.
And look, they've got somegreat individuals across the
team and they've got great depth.
(26:50):
Even if you're hanging in therefor 50, 60 minutes, you've got
a very strong bench coming onfrom them.
But I think it's going to be areally good game.
It's a good time to getLeinster.
Typically after aninternational window, it usually
takes them a week or two to getramped up and you don't get
that with Europe this this yearand especially with Ireland
(27:10):
playing the the extra gameagainst Australia.
That will go against Leinster,do you think?
Speaker 1 (27:16):
do you think many Leinster fans will travel on
Sunday?
I mean, will they all take theday off on Monday?
It just feels a little bit of ashame that it's not a Saturday
night or a Saturday afternoon,where there'd be an amazing
atmosphere in Ashton Gate,although I don't know.
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Oh, there will be a good Leinster following there.
For sure They'll enjoy goingover to Bristol because it's a
brilliant city and yeah, look,they'll make do probably take
Monday off.
Things are starting to slowdown in December from a work
perspective.
I'm sure they've got some leaveleft over, but yeah, it can be
(27:55):
guaranteed those flights will befull, leaving Dublin and all
the counties will be headingover to Bristol to support their
team.
They love travelling for theURC but in particular for Europe
.
There'll always be a fewthousand on the road.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Well, it's good timing because they've just
opened the first ever kebab shopon North Street.
I know we've been waiting yearsfor it and it's going to be
open till midnight, so we bettertell those boys to put some
extra food on.
Mads, we really appreciate yourtime.
It's been fascinating actuallyhearing.
(28:29):
I've got one more question, butI don't know if you boys have,
but I was just thinking aboutwhat you said about when you
didn't play quite as much atBristol as you hoped, perhaps in
the kind of last season youwere there.
I mean, was that just a case ofof you know, you you'd mentored
all these young players andthen you did it too well and uh,
you know, because I think youknow the likes of Callum sort of
(28:51):
came through really strongly inthat sort of time and you know,
or was it a case of you know,you just, you just just got to
an age where it wasn't quiteright.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
I was just kind of interested to know how it all
ended really yeah, like you know, I think at the time there was
speculation that myself and pathad fallen out and, and you know
that certainly wasn't the case.
You know I, um, I was obviouslyreally disappointed and there
was, there was elements that Ifelt a bit let down on um.
But the other side to it aswell is, like you know, and I've
(29:25):
probably seen this more as Igot older is like, look, it is
sport and we love it and youguys are genuine supporters and,
like you, love the purity ofthe game.
But there's also a side of thegame where it is a business
Right, and the reality was ittook a lot of money for to get
me to come to Bristol, whichwasn't, it wasn't the real
driver for me.
(29:45):
Like I'm sure you can see fromthat, I'm not solely driven by
money.
It is part of it and you knowyou've got to make.
Hey well, the sun shines.
It's a short career and it'sfairly brutal, but from the
salary that I was on and how Iwas performing, I didn't condone
that salary and there wasprobably you know conversations
(30:06):
performing.
I didn't condone that salary andthere was probably a you know
conversations going on in thebackground of could we get this
guy out a season early and freeup more money in the salary cap,
because that's what you'recompeting against in the
premiership.
And now I wanted to fight andfight hard to get my position
back and I certainly did thatlike there wasn't a a downing of
tools or or anything like that,and I fought till the very end
and I was proud to get my 50thcap, you know, just before COVID
(30:29):
hit, and I would have loved tohave fought for my position to
come back and compete in theChallenge Cup.
But full credit to CallumSheedy.
He was playing brilliant, youknow, and and it was the right
decision to invest in someonelike him, because he was going
to be at the centre of the clubfor potentially the next five or
(30:50):
ten years at the time.
And look, that's how sport goes.
You can't have it your way allthe time.
But no, I stand by what I said.
I'm not just paying lip serviceto enjoying the time I had at
the club.
There's no doubt there wastough times, but I look back on
itself only.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
That's brilliant.
Sorry, pete, what's Pat like?
He seems very to us from theoutside.
He seems he's obviously adisciplinarian, a head master.
What's he like on the trainingfield?
Is he that strict when you'reout on the field training for
(31:30):
these big matches?
Speaker 2 (31:32):
um, no, like I, like strict wouldn't be be a word
like when you're saying likethat, like a headmaster, the
best coaches like joe schmidt,you know, another kind of
ex-school teacher turned into arugby coach, phenomenal coach,
and like Pat's, right up therewith them of the top coaches
that that I had.
He's extremely technical.
Pat's reviews and previews arefamous, like they used to go on
(31:54):
for for a long time, but he hadto do that because he needed to
get what he wanted.
He was so clear with that.
Um, he was able to see thingslive and give feedback live and
training, which not all coachescan do.
He allowed you to play withreal freedom and yeah, look,
he's stuck in there for as longas he had and he's now looking
(32:17):
like one of the best coaches inthe premiership and I'd love to
see him get an international gig.
I'm sure he will and I'm surehe's being offered.
But that's the trajectory thatpat is on as a coach.
The foundations that he has and, from a culture perspective,
and the standards that he setsrock solid, absolutely rock
(32:39):
solid.
Um, look, do you have yourarguments with, with the head
coach, just like you havearguments with you know, your,
your partner or your boss.
But that's healthy, you know,and if you're not challenging
each other, uh, it's probably abit of a a false relationship
and um, no, like I remember,even when, when anna and myself
were were leaving bristol, likehe, um, he called over to the
(33:02):
house and gave us a, you know, anice painting of of the bridge
and, you know it, very, veryamicable at the end, even though
, like he knew that I wasprobably disappointed with how
it had played out.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
But I was also very grateful to Pat for pitching it
to me and giving me theopportunity and giving me those
memories, yeah, yeah, I thinkthat's the mark of the man as
well, to actually, you know, todo those little things at the
end and you know the humanity init.
I think that's a big thing forPat, isn't it Big time?
(33:33):
Yeah, boys, I think I justremember what that away game was
, mads, was it Robberham away?
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Yeah, I tried to delete it from my memory.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
It was when Lee Blackett was in charge, wasn't
it who?
Lee Blackett was in charge ofit?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm prettysure.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
I remember it was actually gas, because we had a
break the week of after right,so we'd all booked, you know,
holidays away it's about warm.
Yeah, exactly.
And so like the game gamestarted.
It probably should never havestarted, but like the snowstorm
was ridiculous and you couldn'tmake out the lines on the pitch,
(34:13):
at one stage they I'm notjoking one stage they had a five
meter line out and they droveit over our try line and
continue driving I was like.
I was like, if that's not goingto get the game called off, I
don't know what will, but weJordan Crane is the captain and
he managed to convince the refto keep it going.
(34:34):
Right, we make it to halftime.
There was guys like hypothermicin the in the changing rooms
and they were out going rightwith the sweeping brush trying
to find the lines for the pitchand the referee and Pat, to a
point, actually wanted the gameoff because it was clear as day
we weren't going to get a bonuspoint win because he could
(34:57):
barely handle the ball and wewere chasing Ealing.
At this stage Pat was thinking,look, we'll come back and do
this again next week and we'llget the five points.
Jordan, I think, had planned togo to somewhere a bit fancier
than the Canaries and he waslike absolutely not.
And he slammed the door.
(35:18):
He's like we're going out forthe second half.
Yeah, it was legendary.
I'll never forget it.
It was, yeah, it was crazy, wewent down.
I, it was.
Yeah, it was, it was crazy, wewent down.
I think we won by a handful ofpoints, went down to the wire
and yeah, we got our holidaysBrilliant.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
Brilliant memories, I think.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
I think that's a great story to to finish off on
boys, unless you've got anythingelse.
That was brilliant, pete.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
That was brilliant, pete.
I just wanted to quickly ask.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Mads, who's the best player you've ever played with?
Oh, charles was off the charts.
I remember things weren't goingamazing for us in Bristol for a
while and I just said, look,let's just not complicate things
here.
The more we can get the ball inCharles' hands, the chances of
us winning goes up significantly.
So if you can get it to him,just give it to him, and that
(36:11):
served us pretty well for a fewweeks.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
It did we elevated to a level of Sir Charles very
quickly after he joined the club.
Phenomenal skills.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Although we did, I would say that there would be.
No, he would never have playedthat game at Rotherham, would he
?
Speaker 4 (36:25):
And would say that there would be.
No, he would never have playedthat game at Rotherham, would he
?
Speaker 1 (36:27):
And he was always.
He was always mysteriouslyinjured whenever it was
Newcastle away.
I always did like a plasticpitch.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Didn't like a plastic pitch.
No, no, but no, he was.
He was off the charts.
Yeah, he was himself.
Stephen Lewis too.
Luke Moran Vui like there weresome real quality there.
Like John was was very good aswell, obviously Foa yeah, Like
it was, there was some some.
Some of the best players I everplayed with were were at
Bristol, you know, when we werefiring on all cylinders like we
(36:58):
were unstoppable.
It was class.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Yeah, brilliant.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Good, good times, good.
You've reminded us of a fewthings as well.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Yeah, there we go, the hairs are standing up my
neck again.
Well, ian, we really, reallyappreciate your time, and now,
now that we realize you've got ababy on the way as well, I
appreciate it even more.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Absolutely no.
Look great to come on and yeah,look.
I'll be guys at the weekend.
I think it's going to be acracker.
Speaker 4 (37:24):
Thanks for the tiny insight in which we might get on
the Leinster skin.
We'll pass it on to Pat for theweekend.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
It'll be the first time he follows my advice.
Speaker 4 (37:39):
A few Guinnesses with the travelling fans who've come
over all that way over theweekend.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
It'll fans who've come over all that way over the
weekend.
It'll be a good cracker, Ithink.
Yeah, now look, they're goodpeople and I'm sure you guys
will look after them, absolutelythanks.
Thanks so much.
Cheers guys.
you're listening to bears beyond the gate, a bristol
bears podcast made by fans forfans, with three season card
holders at ashton gate.
You love the club, the game andall things bears.
Well, this is something alittle bit different a midweek
pod, but to mark the start ofthe champions cup and the
arrival of heavywe Leinster tothe gate, we managed to secure
(00:27):
an interview with ex-BristolBear, ex-leinster, ex-ireland
and general all-round good guy,ian Madigan.
Miles.
Me and Lee managed to catch upwith him earlier on tonight and
had a fascinating chat with himabout his time at the Bears,
what he's been doing since heretired, his thoughts on the way
that we're playing this seasonand, of course, his insight into
(00:50):
the sort of team that Leinsterare going to bring on Sunday and
the game plan that they willtry to execute.
It was a great chat.
We really appreciate the timehe gave up, so sit back, listen
and enjoy, okay, so I'm reallyexcited to invite and welcome I
should say, uh former bristolplayer ian madigan to bears
(01:14):
beyond the gate.
So, mad sir, really reallyappreciate you coming on and, uh
, thanks for coming to talk tous, are you well?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Yeah, delighted to be on.
Guys great to meet you inperson, pete Miles and Lee
delighted to come on.
I absolutely love my threeyears playing for playing for
Bristol and at the midpoint weturned into the Bears.
But yeah, fond memories from mytime there still follow the
club really closely and friendswith lots of the players still.
(01:46):
So, yeah, delighted to come onand share my thoughts ahead of
the game this weekend.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Oh, brilliant.
Well, no, we really appreciateit and I mean, that is one of
the reasons why we got incontact with you as a former
Leinster player.
We were going to ask you forsome of your insight for the
game on Sunday, but I justthought actually for our
listeners, because there'll be alot of fans out there that will
remember you fondly.
Obviously, you left us I thinkit was 2020 you left the Bears
(02:11):
and obviously had a little bitof a.
You extended your career atUlster for a little bit and then
then retired in 2023.
So I was wondering if you couldjust give us a quick kind of
whistle-stop tour of your lifesince you left Bristol, what it
was like playing at Ulster andthen why you decided to retire
and what you're doing now.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Yeah, so I had three years with Ulster.
We nearly got over the line,winning the league one of the
years just fell short in thesemifinal and good first season
after having left the Bears play, I think about 20 times times.
And then the two seasons afterthat played, you know, between
(02:48):
five and ten times each of thoseseasons and, um, the younger
guys were beginning to pass meout at a rapid rate and the body
was creaking a bit um, um.
So, yeah, I felt it was, it wasthe right time for me to to
call it and um, you know, Iturned professional pretty young
, so I'd had a good 13, 14 yearsat it at that stage and played
(03:09):
a lot of games, so ready for thenext stage of life, um, so now
I'm working for um, I work onthe tv with premier sports, who
cover uh, and virgin, who coverlarge parts of it in ireland,
whether it's the urc orchampions cup or some of the
internationals with with virgin.
And then my day job is with thedata ships where I head up a
sales team there.
Uh, we do marketing compliancefor e-commerce stores where we
(03:32):
sit at the checkout.
Um, and, yeah, from a familypoint of view, my wife anna, who
was with me in bristol's.
Uh, we're expecting our firstbaby in the next month, so, uh,
exciting times on that frontwell, congratulations, great
cheers, guys.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Thank you, we've, we've, uh, we've all got well.
We've got two daughters each,because that's how we know each
other through our kids.
So, uh, no way, they're allabout kind of 15.
So, uh, we know what you've gotcoming.
But uh do you know what you'rehaving no, we've left it a
surprise.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
So yeah, we'll find out soon.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Yeah, well, good luck with it all.
Anyway, let's move on.
Let's talk rugby.
So I thought we'd actually thengo back to the present and
obviously we've got this massivegame coming on Sunday Bears in
the Champions Cup but I've drawnLeinster at home.
I mean obviously you as aformer Leinster at home, I mean
obviously you as a formerLeinster player.
You know, have some real and Ipunned it, as you said.
You know we'll have some realinsight.
(04:27):
Obviously we are rugby fans aswell as Bears fans.
So it's a slight trepidationthat we're looking forward to
Leinster coming, but I'm justinterested in your thoughts.
You know the AutumnInternationals are now finished.
Players are back with theirclubs.
You know players are back withtheir clubs.
You know what?
What should us fans expect onSunday in terms of the sort of
(04:48):
team Leinster might put out andand the sort of game plan they
might execute?
Speaker 2 (04:51):
yeah, well, I think, first off, you know, as Bristol
fans and I think all four of usare still Bristol fans, uh, I
certainly am anyway.
So this is what you want.
You want the best teams comingto Ashton Gate.
You want to be, you know,coming and watching DePont and
Toulouse, and you know CaelanDorris from Leinster and you
know Jack Crowley from Munster,like that's what's going to draw
(05:13):
a big, big number.
You want to compare yourself tothe best and you know, for the
Irish teams, I'll tell you whatit is a big.
It is always a step up from theurc to europe.
Whereas when I played in france, when it was a top 14 week
versus a european week, youwouldn't necessarily notice a
massive change, um, from week toweek, because they want to win
(05:36):
the top 14 as bad as they wantto win europe.
Quite often, um, it does varyslightly from club to club.
Ronan O'Gara is certainlychanging that mindset in La
Rochelle, but if you offered aLeinster player, would you like
a URC championship or would youlike to win the European
Champions Cup?
They would take the EuropeanChampions Cup every day of the
week.
Pat certainly changed thatfocus in the Bears when I was
(06:00):
there.
He put a good focus on Europe,albeit, look, we were competing
in the Challenge Cup.
But he he certainly put a bigfocus in my last year there and
he made it clear I really wantto win this competition, and
full credit to to Bristol.
We did, you know, and um, I waspart of that before we got
broken up by COVID.
Um, but it was great to see theteam uh, winning that and, like
(06:22):
you think of the, theprogression that bristol have
had over the last few years.
Like when I was there we wereobviously in the championship in
my first year.
I remember lenster a comingover and playing the bristol
first team.
I didn't play in that game, Ithink I was injured at the time
and, um, I think lenster a wonthe game, you know, and they did
(06:44):
a good side with lots of youngplayers.
Like we're now competing withthe top teams in Europe, like
that's how much the club hasprogressed.
You know we're sitting at thevery top or I think it's maybe a
point off of the EnglishPremiership and we've earned the
right.
You know, to compete with thevery best From Leinster's
standpoint, like playing Bristolthis week is, you know, to
(07:05):
compete with the very best FromLeinster's standpoint, like
playing Bristol this week is.
You know, europe is done inblocks.
It's a two game block.
They've got Bristol away andthey've Claremont at home.
Like Leo Cullen will be lookingat Bristol away and going that
is a banana skin.
That is going to be a reallytough game.
I need to get my big guns outfor that.
And I fully expect him to beasking caitlin doris and um josh
(07:29):
vanderfleer and porter.
He'll be saying to these guyslook, I need you this week and I
may be able to rotate you outfor claremont next week.
And you, look, I'll get you arest over christmas at some
stage, whether it's boxingdaying Day or New Year's Day,
you will get a breather.
But I'm telling you thatLeinster are taking this game
(07:52):
really seriously and they'regoing to have all the big guns
out this weekend.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Yes, yeah that's kind of it, that is exciting.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
But I mean, no, you're right, you're absolutely
right.
I mean this is kind of you knowwhy we're fans.
But I mean you're right, you'reabsolutely right.
I mean this is kind of you knowwhy we're fans.
We want the big clubs to comeand it has taken a couple of
seasons for us to feel likewe're getting back to that stage
again, after the kind ofexcitement post-COVID.
I mean, geordie Barrett, do youhave any insight, knowledge, do
you think he's going to play?
Speaker 2 (08:18):
I think Geordie plays .
Yeah, I think he will mostlikely play on the right wing,
would be my shout.
I think they're going to wanthim to get up to speed on the
attacking systems.
The defensive systems build hiscohesion as a player.
What I can guarantee you thathe will offer on the wing is
he's fantastic in the air, hekicks the ball well and he's
going to be rock solid indefence.
(08:39):
So you can fit him in thereseamlessly, whereas fitting him
in at 12, there's a lot more tolearn, a lot more cohesiveness
that that that he needs to betin um.
The other option is that theyplay him number 23, for example,
and they use him on the 50minute mark, depending on how
the game is going um, and itwill.
It will be dependent on howwell he's settled in, like if
(09:00):
he's, if he's firing on allcylinders and he's fully fit,
they will, they will roll him inum yeah well, let's hope he's
firing on all cylinders and he'sfully fit.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
they will roll him in .
Yeah Well, let's hope he's beenwatching the videos of Gabs.
Ibitoyi and also Joe Owen.
Yeah.
Our young lad was on the wingagainst Quinns and skinned their
winger.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah, quick question why wasn't Ibitoyi included in
the English squad?
I know he played in the A game,but it just didn't make sense
to me.
Boys, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Boy.
Has he got any ideas on that?
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Well, I think just at the beginning part of the
season, I think defensivelythere was probably a couple of
question marks, but I think he'sdefinitely ironed that out of
his game and, like Pat said onthe weekend, he gives England a
different option, somethingspecial, and I don't know why
he's not in that squad now.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
Yeah, you're right.
I feel like people just don'tknow how to play him anymore.
He's improved under the highball, so I mean surely moving
forward, he's got to be up therefor contention, I agree.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
The trouble is for Baris, his remit for Baris.
He's the lone ranger, he's thefree man, so he's so hard to
defend against.
But he won't get that in anEngland shirt and that's the
problem.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Yeah, no, and that's fair.
But yeah, I'd love to see himplaying for England.
Absolutely Himself and Mbosawould be a good combo.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Just going back to your comment that you obviously
are doing some work for previoussports as well.
I mean, are you coming to thegame on sunday as a pundit, or
is that?
Uh, is that still under wraps?
Speaker 2 (10:31):
yeah, no, I was.
I was supposed to be doing the,uh, doing the commentary, which
I was really looking forward to, but, as it transpires with
with anna, it's just, it's tooclose.
I I would have had to fly out,I think, on a saturday evening
and fly back on a monday, so, uh, we had to make the executive
decision, which was the toughone, uh, not to do it.
So I think that it could beimminent, so, um, but yeah, look
(10:54):
, well, I'll be there.
I'll be there for the returnfixture and I'll make sure to do
bristol justice when I'm on thecomms there I was going to say
you might be there.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
you know when we get there, when we get there, but
anyway, that too.
I've got one last questionbefore I move over to Miles.
It's just about the punditryactually, because obviously, as
you say, you've got a day joband you know it sounds great.
But when you do do a game, Imean, how much prep are you
expected to do and kind ofwhat's the process?
Do they expect you to do kindof a lot of analysis up front or
(11:24):
do you just basically just wingit?
Speaker 2 (11:28):
No, I've always been more on the analysis side and
the preparation side.
It depends.
I do both the punditry or thecommentary.
So the commentary if you'rewith the league commentator,
like they're going to know youknow the centre's granny's name
and how many caps they've got,like that's not my job, you know
, and they're typicallycommentating when the ball is in
(11:49):
play.
When the ball's out of play,and the irish commentators have
a slightly different structureto the, the english ones and, um
, the likes of flatman andaustin healy have a different
style again, um, who arefantastic, by the way um, but so
I would typically come in whenball is out of play.
I'm in explaining what happenedor what I expect to happen.
(12:09):
You know how teams are settingup defensively and and that
stuff comes to me quitenaturally, like I can see it and
I can commentate it.
There's not a whole lot of prepneeded for that.
But for the punditry, like the30 or 40 minutes before a match,
like that's probably thetoughest part of it, because
half time looks after itselfwith the tries that are scored
or who has played.
Well, same with post-match, but40 minutes beforehand you're
(12:32):
teeing up what you expect tohappen and I think if you wing
that, you get found out, youneed to have some packs.
You know, this is how bristlehave been attacking this season
the variation they've shown intheir game and you're teeing up
what the people watching thegame are expecting to see then
off the back of it.
So I enjoy it Like I've learneda lot.
I've obviously been doing itnow for the guts of two years
(12:54):
and learned a huge amount andthey're great Like they give you
feedback on what's what theylike and what they don't like
and don't be vanilla and um.
These are the stats packs andum.
So, yeah, learn.
It's still learning a lot tolearn nice one.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Well, miles I'll pass over to you.
Now you can ask yeah, I'll aska few questions.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
Thanks, man.
So let's sort of step back intime a bit, uh, way back to the
start of the patlam era, uh, youknow, as soon as it became the
Bears.
I just wondered how did thatsigning come about, and how on
earth did he persuade you tocome over and play in what was
the championship then?
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Yeah, well, as I'm sure you guys have come to learn
, Pat is a pretty compelling guy.
You know I'd like to have himon my sales team if I could.
You know he just put together agood case.
Look, ultimately I'd obviouslycome from playing in Leinster,
gone to Bordeaux on a two-yeardeal that year.
(13:57):
The second half of it it startedto kind of fall apart.
I got injured, the team hadlost form.
I think they were on to theirthird coach in the year and Pat
basically reached out and saidlook, I'm moving from Connacht
to Bristol.
This is the vision that I have.
I think we're going to besitting at the top table.
(14:20):
It's going to obviously take usa year to get there back into
the premiership.
This is the new facility thatwe're building.
The likes of luke morahan aregoing to sign steve, steve
luatua, chris vuitton, um johnafoa.
You know like it was.
It was a pretty compelling caseand it was do you want to come
and be part of a, you know, ajourney onto something special?
(14:43):
And I believed him when hepitched it and, as it transpired
, he was true to his word.
I would have liked to haveplayed more, especially in the
last year of my Bristol contract, but I certainly don't regret
making that decision.
I love my time at the club andum.
(15:05):
It was a journey yeah,absolutely.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
I mean, you know what was that first season?
Like we were playing at some uhpretty small grounds around
around england, weren't we?
And something?
I mean we went up to heartbury.
That was pretty tough going,just getting in and out for fans
.
I mean, did you enjoy goingback to that sort of level of
rugby or was it a bit of a stepdown from what you had been
playing?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Yeah, like there's no getting away from it.
It was a big step down.
I think Ireland were competingfor a Grand Slam game or a final
game to win a Six Nations, andI was playing up north, I think
it was.
Maybe could have been DoncasterActually it wasn't Doncaster,
because Doncaster is actuallypretty nice compared to some of
the other places we've played.
(15:49):
Doncaster is actually lovely,but where were we playing?
Speaker 4 (15:54):
Did you play the match where it was snowing
pretty much?
Yeah the snow, yeah that wasthe.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Where was that again?
Speaker 4 (16:01):
I'm trying to think.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
I'm trying to think somewhere out there yeah, it'd
be somewhere like, yeah, theNorth West, but it was the worst
conditions we should have done.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
We should have done our research our research on
that, absolutely, but yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
So I remember and, like I was playing in front of
you know a man and a dog thatday Ireland are competing to win
the Six Nations.
You're still thinking you're atthe foundations of a game plan
that was going to see us through.
You know, climbing up thepremiership table, um, and
hopefully trying to compete ineurope, and um, look, you're
(16:34):
going on the road.
You're, you're winning mostweeks, if not close to every
week.
Um, you're in training.
You're building week on week,as opposed to if you're in you
know a top league and you'rewinning one week, losing another
week.
You're in training, you'rebuilding week on week, as
opposed to if you're in, youknow a top league and you're
winning one week, losing anotherweek.
You're always kind of creatinga game plan to just get you over
the line each week, as opposedto having 12 months to really
(16:55):
build a system that you can relyon.
And ultimately we did that andlike it was an achievement, um,
finishing.
I think it was seventh oreighth where we finished in my
first year in the premiership um, off the back of bristol, being
typically a yo-yo team getpromoted, get relegated, get
promoted, get relegated.
Um, and yeah, being part ofthat was, was, um, was,
(17:19):
enjoyable yeah, great.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
I mean, what were your sort of memorable moments
in a Bristol shirt?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Well, that one, getting the snow in was
certainly a memorable one.
Like that year in thechampionship, while we had some
real superstars, there was otherreally good teams and it wasn't
a formality that we werepromoted.
We nearly lost I.
(17:45):
I remember the first game ofthe season and then it still
came down to Ealing wereparticularly good that year
still came down to a crunch gamewhere we got over the line away
from home and I remember likeeven just getting into the last
20 minutes of the game we werewithin a score with lots of
teams like we scraped throughsome of those games and that was
(18:05):
.
They were fond memories.
Um, and then getting into thepremiership, like I remember
earlier on in that premiershipseason coming up against like
the likes of quins at home,lester at home, like they were
the like I always followed theenglish premiership when I was a
kid and like they're the teamsI wanted to be playing against
week in, week out, if I I wasn'tplaying interprovincial games.
(18:26):
And yeah, we trashed Leicesterand we beat Quinns pretty well
and yeah, we hit a bit of amid-season slump, but that was
to be expected.
It was a big step up physicallyand mentally for the entire
squad and I certainly wore a bitof that myself.
And then in the latter years,like kicking, kicking winners
(18:50):
against saris was was prettyspecial and, um, saints, I think
I got, yeah, got got one aswell.
So like when you get on the endof them, like you need a lot to
go your way and a bit of luckas well, uh, but you never
forget those moments, you know,and um, yeah, so moving on, but
maybe linked to that kicking.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
I mean, when you kick off the tee, um, we always joke
that it was good and you wouldimmediately turn away and start
running back.
Uh, so we actually assumed thatthe kick was good and you'd won
the ball.
I mean, was that something youdeveloped or did it ever go
wrong, as much as it was a gustof wind that blew it sideways at
all?
Speaker 2 (19:29):
I think with goal kicking, you know, it's largely
down to how much time you putinto it, especially in the early
part of your career.
But there does come a pointwhere you go you know what.
I think I figured this out, youknow, and that moment
definitely did hit for me,probably during my.
I didn't have it in Bordeaux.
I was a good goal kicker but itwasn't like I didn't have to
(19:50):
see where the ball was going.
There was times when I wasplaying for Bristol and I just
had total confidence in what Iwas doing off the tee and, yeah,
it was a nice feeling and theway we played as well.
The goal kicking was importantbecause we certainly weren't
scoring tries the way.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
Bristol.
Well, there were some closegames where you saved our bacon
on many occasions.
I think most fans will rememberabsolutely.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Yeah, sorry, the other thing I should have said,
another thing I got massivesatisfaction out of through my
time in Bristol, was mentoringsome of the younger players, the
likes of Johan Lloyd Lloyd inparticular, callum Sheedy, you
know, and going on to see himbecome an international.
The likes of Matt Prothero attimes, you know, harry Randall
the success he's had withEngland.
(20:35):
Andy Wren, going over toTreviso.
There was a lot of guys whowere actually, you know, they
were nearly probably the guts of10 years younger than me and
I'd had some good experiencesleading into that and was
certainly able to help them outand, yeah, still in contact with
a lot of those guys.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Shall, we Lee.
Do you want to dive in?
Speaker 3 (20:53):
Yeah, it's actually just.
That's seamlessly fitted intowhat I was just going to ask you
actually, Because weinterviewed Callum Sheedy and
Dan Thomas last week and Sheedswas actually saying about that
he found it more difficult toplay, you know, in the Pro 14
(21:16):
than it was in the EnglishPremiership.
What were your experience ofthat, Matt, Would you?
Speaker 2 (21:22):
agree with that.
It helps if you're playing forlenzer as opposed to cardiff,
like lenzer's squad depth isjust incredible.
Like they've um, I think thatthe guts of 45 senior players
but the quality of those seniorplayers is top-notch, and then
(21:45):
supplementing that is 25 academyplayers that I'd like to think
would make the 45 of any otherEuropean squad, maybe barring
the likes of Toulouse, LaRochelle, Saris.
So the reality is, with the URCyou've got the Munster Leinster
is.
With the URC you've got theMunster Leinster, the South
(22:08):
African sides and then one ofEdinburgh and Glasgow.
Depending on a given season,they are strong, really strong.
Ulster can have, you know, notat the moment but in previous
seasons certainly a top 18.
They may still be this year, butthey'll be scraping into it.
And then you know you'lltypically have one Welsh side
and this year it's Cardiff whoare the strong Welsh side.
(22:31):
But the difference between thetop half of the table and the
bottom half of the table in theURC is massive, whereas if you
look at the Premiership now,every team on a given week can
beat each other.
I know you could say look,Exeter and Newcastle are a bit
weaker this season, but they'llstill get their scalps this year
and you know you'll find nextyear they could suddenly be a
(22:52):
top four team, you know, and thesalary cap is great for that.
In the premiership, you know,every team is operating a salary
cap in around five or sixmillion I'm not sure what
exactly it is now but the or sixmillion, I'm not sure what
exactly it is now.
But the reality is, in the URC,the budget that Leinster has
versus what Zebra have, it's nowonder that Leinster are always
going to be top two and Zebraare always going to be bottom
(23:14):
two, because the resources theyhave is probably 5x or 10x, you
know, and that's probably thebig difference between the two
leagues.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
I mean on that basis.
I mean, obviously you've said,like you've watched the Bears at
times this season, I mean weare playing some incredible
rugby, the best rugby we've everseen in our lifetime.
I mean it's high quality, hightempo.
But do you feel in Europe wecan sustain that?
You know, is there a?
You know, is there a leaguetitle back home?
(23:46):
You know, home on the shelf,waiting for us?
What do you think from yourperspective now, outside,
looking in?
Speaker 2 (23:57):
I certainly think the game plan is sustainable to win
the Premiership this year.
There'll be no Irishman happierthan myself if you do.
The reality is, with the wayyou're playing it's not like
you're just, you know, throwingcaution to the wind, like it's
technically really impressivewhat you're doing, like if you
(24:20):
look at how your pods areoperating off nine.
It's not like it's just thiscrazy loose passing.
It's the variation.
You can still play it tight,but then there's other times
when you'll stretch that shapeout.
You might sense that thedefence aren't coming up.
Now's the time that we canstretch that shape and pull it
out the back and play that kindof double-double shape that
(24:40):
Bristol have always done reallywell, with players tucked and
turning around the corner late,where it's very hard to pick
them up from a defensiveperspective.
To be able to play that gamerequires a huge amount of work
and training and you also needto do it for a long time and
fail at it for a long timebefore it starts to click.
Bristol, for a large part, havebeen playing that way for the
(25:03):
last probably five or six years,barring maybe one season where
they they kind of changed andthe wheels started to come off
and I like, from looking fromthe outside in, I'm sure Pat
came under a bit of pressure andit looked like to me he goes.
You know what I'm underpressure here.
But if I'm going to go out, I'mgoing to go out my way and
(25:23):
we're going back to the Bristolway and the Pat Lamb way of
playing what's in front of you,and that is you can go through a
team, you can go over a team,you can go around a team, you
can beat a team at your kickinggame.
Play what's in front of you.
And it looks like Bristol aredoing that and doing that really
well.
(25:47):
On the point of like, how arethey going to fare up against
Leinster?
Leinster are, um, a side thatcan also play lots of different
ways, but typically when they'replaying away from home in
Europe they're going to play inthe right areas.
So if Bristol are going to doit, they're going to have to do
it from deep and if they make amistake, leinster are going to
make them pay big time.
Because if you make a mistake20 or 30 meters out from your
(26:08):
try line, that's three points,five point, seven points.
Each mistake you always pay.
When you're paying a side, likelenster, you make a mistake in
your own half.
They'll also go after bristolearly.
You know the their box kickinggame is something they rely on
heavily.
Their high kicks or Gary Owensoff 10 is something they rely on
(26:29):
and it's only really when theyget the attacking picture that
they like that they'll then pushthe button and you'll go geez,
leinster's attack is amazing,but they're very patient before
they pull the trigger on that.
And look, they've got somegreat individuals across the
team and they've got great depth.
(26:50):
Even if you're hanging in therefor 50, 60 minutes, you've got
a very strong bench coming onfrom them.
But I think it's going to be areally good game.
It's a good time to getLeinster.
Typically after aninternational window, it usually
takes them a week or two to getramped up and you don't get
that with Europe this this yearand especially with Ireland
(27:10):
playing the the extra gameagainst Australia.
That will go against Leinster,do you think?
Speaker 1 (27:16):
do you think many Leinster fans will travel on
Sunday?
I mean, will they all take theday off on Monday?
It just feels a little bit of ashame that it's not a Saturday
night or a Saturday afternoon,where there'd be an amazing
atmosphere in Ashton Gate,although I don't know.
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Oh, there will be a good Leinster following there.
For sure They'll enjoy goingover to Bristol because it's a
brilliant city and yeah, look,they'll make do probably take
Monday off.
Things are starting to slowdown in December from a work
perspective.
I'm sure they've got some leaveleft over, but yeah, it can be
(27:55):
guaranteed those flights will befull, leaving Dublin and all
the counties will be headingover to Bristol to support their
team.
They love travelling for theURC but in particular for Europe
.
There'll always be a fewthousand on the road.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Well, it's good timing because they've just
opened the first ever kebab shopon North Street.
I know we've been waiting yearsfor it and it's going to be
open till midnight, so we bettertell those boys to put some
extra food on.
Mads, we really appreciate yourtime.
It's been fascinating actuallyhearing.
(28:29):
I've got one more question, butI don't know if you boys have,
but I was just thinking aboutwhat you said about when you
didn't play quite as much atBristol as you hoped, perhaps in
the kind of last season youwere there.
I mean, was that just a case ofof you know, you you'd mentored
all these young players andthen you did it too well and uh,
you know, because I think youknow the likes of Callum sort of
(28:51):
came through really strongly inthat sort of time and you know,
or was it a case of you know,you just, you just just got to
an age where it wasn't quiteright.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
I was just kind of interested to know how it all
ended really yeah, like you know, I think at the time there was
speculation that myself and pathad fallen out and, and you know
that certainly wasn't the case.
You know I, um, I was obviouslyreally disappointed and there
was, there was elements that Ifelt a bit let down on um.
But the other side to it aswell is, like you know, and I've
(29:25):
probably seen this more as Igot older is like, look, it is
sport and we love it and youguys are genuine supporters and,
like you, love the purity ofthe game.
But there's also a side of thegame where it is a business
Right, and the reality was ittook a lot of money for to get
me to come to Bristol, whichwasn't, it wasn't the real
driver for me.
(29:45):
Like I'm sure you can see fromthat, I'm not solely driven by
money.
It is part of it and you knowyou've got to make.
Hey well, the sun shines.
It's a short career and it'sfairly brutal, but from the
salary that I was on and how Iwas performing, I didn't condone
that salary and there wasprobably you know conversations
(30:06):
performing.
I didn't condone that salary andthere was probably a you know
conversations going on in thebackground of could we get this
guy out a season early and freeup more money in the salary cap,
because that's what you'recompeting against in the
premiership.
And now I wanted to fight andfight hard to get my position
back and I certainly did thatlike there wasn't a a downing of
tools or or anything like that,and I fought till the very end
and I was proud to get my 50thcap, you know, just before COVID
(30:29):
hit, and I would have loved tohave fought for my position to
come back and compete in theChallenge Cup.
But full credit to CallumSheedy.
He was playing brilliant, youknow, and and it was the right
decision to invest in someonelike him, because he was going
to be at the centre of the clubfor potentially the next five or
(30:50):
ten years at the time.
And look, that's how sport goes.
You can't have it your way allthe time.
But no, I stand by what I said.
I'm not just paying lip serviceto enjoying the time I had at
the club.
There's no doubt there wastough times, but I look back on
itself only.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
That's brilliant.
Sorry, pete, what's Pat like?
He seems very to us from theoutside.
He seems he's obviously adisciplinarian, a head master.
What's he like on the trainingfield?
Is he that strict when you'reout on the field training for
(31:30):
these big matches?
Speaker 2 (31:32):
um, no, like I, like strict wouldn't be be a word
like when you're saying likethat, like a headmaster, the
best coaches like joe schmidt,you know, another kind of
ex-school teacher turned into arugby coach, phenomenal coach,
and like Pat's, right up therewith them of the top coaches
that that I had.
He's extremely technical.
Pat's reviews and previews arefamous, like they used to go on
(31:54):
for for a long time, but he hadto do that because he needed to
get what he wanted.
He was so clear with that.
Um, he was able to see thingslive and give feedback live and
training, which not all coachescan do.
He allowed you to play withreal freedom and yeah, look,
he's stuck in there for as longas he had and he's now looking
(32:17):
like one of the best coaches inthe premiership and I'd love to
see him get an international gig.
I'm sure he will and I'm surehe's being offered.
But that's the trajectory thatpat is on as a coach.
The foundations that he has and, from a culture perspective,
and the standards that he setsrock solid, absolutely rock
(32:39):
solid.
Um, look, do you have yourarguments with, with the head
coach, just like you havearguments with you know, your,
your partner or your boss.
But that's healthy, you know,and if you're not challenging
each other, uh, it's probably abit of a a false relationship
and um, no, like I remember,even when, when anna and myself
were were leaving bristol, likehe, um, he called over to the
(33:02):
house and gave us a, you know, anice painting of of the bridge
and, you know it, very, veryamicable at the end, even though
, like he knew that I wasprobably disappointed with how
it had played out.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
But I was also very grateful to Pat for pitching it
to me and giving me theopportunity and giving me those
memories, yeah, yeah, I thinkthat's the mark of the man as
well, to actually, you know, todo those little things at the
end and you know the humanity init.
I think that's a big thing forPat, isn't it Big time?
(33:33):
Yeah, boys, I think I justremember what that away game was
, mads, was it Robberham away?
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Yeah, I tried to delete it from my memory.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
It was when Lee Blackett was in charge, wasn't
it who?
Lee Blackett was in charge ofit?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm prettysure.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
I remember it was actually gas, because we had a
break the week of after right,so we'd all booked, you know,
holidays away it's about warm.
Yeah, exactly.
And so like the game gamestarted.
It probably should never havestarted, but like the snowstorm
was ridiculous and you couldn'tmake out the lines on the pitch,
(34:13):
at one stage they I'm notjoking one stage they had a five
meter line out and they droveit over our try line and
continue driving I was like.
I was like, if that's not goingto get the game called off, I
don't know what will, but weJordan Crane is the captain and
he managed to convince the refto keep it going.
(34:34):
Right, we make it to halftime.
There was guys like hypothermicin the in the changing rooms
and they were out going rightwith the sweeping brush trying
to find the lines for the pitchand the referee and Pat, to a
point, actually wanted the gameoff because it was clear as day
we weren't going to get a bonuspoint win because he could
(34:57):
barely handle the ball and wewere chasing Ealing.
At this stage Pat was thinking,look, we'll come back and do
this again next week and we'llget the five points.
Jordan, I think, had planned togo to somewhere a bit fancier
than the Canaries and he waslike absolutely not.
And he slammed the door.
(35:18):
He's like we're going out forthe second half.
Yeah, it was legendary.
I'll never forget it.
It was, yeah, it was crazy, wewent down.
I, it was.
Yeah, it was, it was crazy, wewent down.
I think we won by a handful ofpoints, went down to the wire
and yeah, we got our holidaysBrilliant.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
Brilliant memories, I think.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
I think that's a great story to to finish off on
boys, unless you've got anythingelse.
That was brilliant, pete.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
That was brilliant, pete.
I just wanted to quickly ask.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Mads, who's the best player you've ever played with?
Oh, charles was off the charts.
I remember things weren't goingamazing for us in Bristol for a
while and I just said, look,let's just not complicate things
here.
The more we can get the ball inCharles' hands, the chances of
us winning goes up significantly.
So if you can get it to him,just give it to him, and that
(36:11):
served us pretty well for a fewweeks.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
It did we elevated to a level of Sir Charles very
quickly after he joined the club.
Phenomenal skills.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Although we did, I would say that there would be.
No, he would never have playedthat game at Rotherham, would he
?
Speaker 4 (36:25):
And would say that there would be.
No, he would never have playedthat game at Rotherham, would he
?
Speaker 1 (36:27):
And he was always.
He was always mysteriouslyinjured whenever it was
Newcastle away.
I always did like a plasticpitch.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Didn't like a plastic pitch.
No, no, but no, he was.
He was off the charts.
Yeah, he was himself.
Stephen Lewis too.
Luke Moran Vui like there weresome real quality there.
Like John was was very good aswell, obviously Foa yeah, Like
it was, there was some some.
Some of the best players I everplayed with were were at
Bristol, you know, when we werefiring on all cylinders like we
(36:58):
were unstoppable.
It was class.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Yeah, brilliant.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Good, good times, good.
You've reminded us of a fewthings as well.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Yeah, there we go, the hairs are standing up my
neck again.
Well, ian, we really, reallyappreciate your time, and now,
now that we realize you've got ababy on the way as well, I
appreciate it even more.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Absolutely no.
Look great to come on and yeah,look.
I'll be guys at the weekend.
I think it's going to be acracker.
Speaker 4 (37:24):
Thanks for the tiny insight in which we might get on
the Leinster skin.
We'll pass it on to Pat for theweekend.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
It'll be the first time he follows my advice.
Speaker 4 (37:39):
A few Guinnesses with the travelling fans who've come
over all that way over theweekend.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
It'll fans who've come over all that way over the
weekend.
It'll be a good cracker, Ithink.
Yeah, now look, they're goodpeople and I'm sure you guys
will look after them, absolutelythanks.
Thanks so much.
Cheers guys.
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