August 19, 2025 • 33 mins
The mysterious world of equine chiropractic care comes into sharp focus as Dr. Kiley Kelly, veterinarian and certified equine chiropractor, shares her professional journey and practical wisdom. What begins with the story of a family pony named Salty—transformed from bucking menace to dream ride after a single adjustment—evolves into a fascinating exploration of how subtle spinal issues profoundly affect horse performance and comfort.
Dr. Kelly demystifies the science behind vertebral subluxations—those slight misalignments that restrict motion and create cascading problems throughout a horse's body. She expertly distinguishes between genuine chiropractic needs and underlying lameness issues that require different veterinary attention, emphasizing how proper diagnosis prevents wasted time and resources. Her candid assessment of saddle fit as the primary culprit behind recurring chiropractic issues offers a wake-up call for many horse owners holding onto expensive but problematic equipment.
The conversation takes an unexpected turn when Dr. Kelly reveals the profound connection between rider and horse biomechanics. Her account of treating two different horses with identical subluxation patterns—resolved only after their teenage rider received human chiropractic care—illuminates how our own physical imbalances directly impact our equine partners. This holistic perspective extends to practical advice on preventative care, from regular dental work and balanced exercise to stretching techniques that maintain flexibility and comfort.
Ready to discover if your horse's mysterious behavioral changes might have a spinal solution? Listen now and gain insights that could transform your understanding of equine wellness and performance. For personalized consultation, reach Dr. Kelly at 217-294-3947 or through her Facebook page "Kiley Kelly DVM LLC."
Full Chiropractic adjustment here! - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy1qXZceJKs&t=12s
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, welcome to the Beasley Equine Podcast.
Today in our studio we got DrKylie Kelly, a veterinarian and
equine chiropractor, who's beensweating in the back working on
horses all morning, and now wegot her in the AC and we're
going to talk to her aboutchiropractics.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Veterinarian surgeon or a doctor.
Come quick, draw the syringeand give it a flick.
Bring your little black bagwith the medicines in.
Bring the trank and the crankand the penicillin.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Well, thanks for taking the time out of your day
to do this, yeah exciting.
We appreciate it.
It's always a fun day whenyou're here.
I guess the first thing I wantto know is what I mean.
You went through all the vetschool and then chiropractor
school.
What inspired that route?
What inspired you to be achiropractor?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
so when I was a kid, we had a pony.
That was really a good pony fora lot of years and then all of
a sudden she just startedbucking, trying to buck us off,
and someone told us to takeactually, it's Kevin Woods's mom
told us to take her to achiropractor and my dad was like
there's no way.
There is no way I'm taking thispony to the chiropractor.
(01:09):
And we ended up.
I don't know what changed hismind my mom probably and they
ended up taking her to thechiropractor Her name was Salty
and got her back adjusted andthen she rode like a dream after
that.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
So then we were sold, so that's what inspired you to
see those results.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yeah, and then when I was in vet school I went to a
conference AAEP and they wereset up there.
The college was at a booth andthey offered a scholarship, and
so I applied and got acceptedand like well, I guess I'll do
this.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
And where was that at ?
Where'd you apply?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Options for animals in Wellsville, Kansas.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
And how long?
How long is that?
Speaker 2 (01:51):
You go like a week a month for five to seven months,
depending on how long the weeksare.
Basically, sometimes it's along weekend, sometimes it's a
whole week, and then at the endyou you come back each time and
you have homework and casestudies, and then you go back
and re-practice and learnsomething new and do case
(02:11):
studies the whole time, and thenyou take a test and then you
graduate.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Oh nice.
How was that different than vetschool?
I mean probably a lot.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Yeah, it wasn't a lot different, like I started it
when I was still in vet school.
So I was in my fourth year andI would do them on my off blocks
.
I tried to schedule around that.
So I was almost done with chiroschool when I graduated vet
school so I just had a couplemore sessions to go back and
finish after that and theytaught like neurology, anatomy,
(02:44):
physiology, like a lot of thethings I'd already learned in
vet school.
And then the hardest part waslearning the chiropractic
technique.
For me because the school hashuman chiropractors and
veterinarians and so the humanchiropractors knew all about the
adjustments and how that workedand we knew all about the
anatomy of the horses and dogs.
(03:04):
So it was kind of nice to worktogether.
They helped us, we helped them.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
So it was human chiropractors learning to do
animals.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yep, yep.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Oh, that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah, it was a combined program.
Okay, so can you kind of explainwhat chiropractic involves as
far as like your assessment ofthe animal to what you do next,
and and so on so a lot of timesI get a history from the owner
like are you noticing anything?
And some horses they arenoticing, like they're stiff to
the right, they don't want toturn, they're not taking their
(03:37):
leads, their backs or theythey'll kind of give you an
update and some horses they'relike I just check them over,
they to be okay, but we justwant to get them adjusted.
So kind of the owner will giveyou a history first and then
sometimes we'll watch them movearound if they're worried about
a lameness or something likethat, and I'll send them to you.
But you know, so we'll watchthem go.
(04:01):
We'll start kind of justfeeling over them.
See where they're painful,they'll tell you.
You know, they'll usually pintheir ears or give you like a
stomp of the foot.
They'll just look upsetwhenever you hit a sore spot or
they'll just kind of dip down ormove away from you and so kind
of just do a baseline and seewhere they're hurting.
(04:21):
And then the goal is to getthese vertebral subluxations to
just restore motion.
And you don't need a lot ofmotion, we just need a little
bit of motion to give the nerveand the blood flow and the
muscle a chance to kind of relaxand function normally again.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
When you say vertebral subluxation, can you
explain that just a little bit?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah, so everybody always calls me when they think
their horse has a dislocated hipor a broken pelvis, their goat
has a dislocated something, andI don't treat dislocations, I
only treat subluxations, and thedifference is huge.
So dislocations are a reallybig, dramatic thing.
(05:04):
Subluxations are, things arejust stuck, they're just barely
stuck, so there's just notmotion in your vertebral
segments.
So that's what we're trying totreat is those areas that are
just stuck.
They might be stuck up down tothe left, to the right.
We don't know until we get inthere and really start feeling.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
It's really a feel and that was the hardest part of
going to school was figuringout how to find that feel Right.
And then why?
How come the vertebrae getsstuck?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
It's just like in people you know.
I mean you might roll wrong orsleep on your neck wrong, have a
traumatic injury, get kicked byanother horse, or the saddle
might pinch you for too long.
Yeah, there can be a lot ofreasons.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Yeah, that's when you wish the horses could talk.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yes, exactly, and that would be great.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
So what are some of the common things?
You see, what are most of thehorses you work on?
Quarter horses.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Yeah, I would say probably the majority are
quarter horses, roping horses,um, I do do some hunter jumpers
and some dressage horses and um,but mostly the biggest issue I
see is saddle fit really yeah,or you know people over pad them
and then they get really tightand pinched um, or they don't
(06:22):
have a good quality pad and it'slike concrete.
Yeah, they don't clean it.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
And you're trained in saddle fitting too right.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Yeah, I did learn some saddle fitting in school.
I'm not like a certified expertby any means, but I know where
to feel and, like a lot of timesyou'll put the saddle on and
they'll tell you whenever yourun your hand under the shoulder
, if it's too tight.
They do not like it yeah, I canimagine.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Yeah, so if um say there's a horse owner listening
thinking maybe I need my horseto see a chiropractor, what are
some things they can look for?
Or notice that maybe theyshould ring a chiropractor?
Speaker 2 (07:02):
yeah, a lot of times.
Um, stiffness, you know.
Are they not able to turn theirhead to the left, to the right?
Can they bring their you knowhead down between their front
legs so you can try to see ifthey can do those stretches?
And if they can, you know, move, you know, their neck in a
smooth motion, not jerky, nothead tilting, because some
(07:25):
horses will try to cheat toalleviate pressure.
If they run their hand down thehorse's back or they're
brushing them and they'reflinching or kind of buckling,
that can be signs too.
Or just being a little bit offin the hind end or not taking
the leads or cross-firing,things like that can indicate
that there's something stuck upthere.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Cool.
So you said you know if it's alameness issue you'll send it to
us or refer.
How do how do you incorporatechiropractics with, like the
farrier work or other medicalthings?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
and stuff like that.
So usually one of the firstquestions I ask people is when
was the last time their teethwere floated?
You know, take a look at thefeet, see if the hooves looked
balanced, see if there's anythrush um or misfitting shoes.
Sometimes I pick up feet andthey have different size shoes
on different front feet, so, um.
(08:21):
So we try to talk about that too.
We try to talk about diet, um,and just you know, where does
the horse live?
Does it live in a stall?
Does it live turned out?
So I try to get as much of ahistory from the owners as I can
and then make recommendationsbased on you know what they're
telling me.
The lifestyle is like.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Yeah, and then there's kind of a misconception
out there.
We've had people that have hadlameness issues that go straight
to the chiropractor for weeksand then spend all their money
when it's an underlying lamenessissue, and I've experienced
that with my knee trouble.
I started lymphindexing.
I know my SI is out and I'm atthe chiropractor, so do you see
(09:02):
stuff like that too?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Absolutely, yeah.
Yeah, I try to make sure peopleunderstand.
I'm not a miracle worker, not aholistic magical person.
So if your saddle doesn't fit,you're going to be back to see
me in a couple of weeks becauseyou're going to have the same
problem.
I'm just band-aiding some ofthese problems.
If you have lameness, thenyou're going to be back again
(09:25):
because you're going to say,well, you didn't do your job.
My horse is still sore.
Well, I don't, I can't fix aswollen hawk, you know.
So, yeah, I try to refer thosepeople out and, um, you know
it's.
Everybody says, well, it's goodjob security.
Well, it is.
But if I take all their moneybefore they come to you, they
don't have any money to pay forall your lameness, workup stuff.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
So, yeah, and you gotta sleep at night too.
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
I like to refer the medicinecases and I think people
appreciate that too, like if Itell them I don't know what's
going on, but I know somebodythat probably does right right
and then the.
The whole vet community is sucha great network it's great,
yeah, and then I'm alwaystexting somebody, phone a friend
(10:08):
.
People call me.
The stuff they're not trainedon, yeah, um.
So I guess the other thing Iwant to know is do you ever
watch people ride?
Speaker 2 (10:17):
to evaluate yeah, sometimes I do.
Do you ever refer?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
them to a human chiropractor.
I do actually.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah, I actually have one client off the top of my
head.
I adjust two of her horses andafter the second time of working
on them I said Natalie, thesehorses are out in the exact same
spots.
Each horse would be left,shoulder, right, hip, and I'm
like I don't know why.
Why are they not getting better?
Why are they always out in thesame spot and why are their
(10:45):
listings identical from horse tohorse?
That's not normal usually.
So I asked her.
I said do you go to thechiropractor?
And she's like oh some.
And I said have you beenrecently?
And she said no, and so I saidwill you do me a favor and go?
She said yeah, yeah.
So her mom she's a teenager Hermom took her to the
chiropractor and then sent me aFacebook message and said she
(11:06):
was extremely out of the lineand had a lot, of, a lot of
things going on and the kidfeels so much better.
And then the next time I workedon the horses, they were so
much better, and so that waspretty cool.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Is that just a balance thing, like where she
was, I think?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
so, yeah, her pelvis was out and, oh, I don't know
exactly that.
They told me exactly what waswrong, but her pelvis was like
shifted, so whenever she rodeshe was like cockeyed.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Yeah and that just puts more weight or pressure
yeah huh yeah, that'sinteresting.
Some of the stuff I've seenit's um which I'm not trained in
chiropractics, but it's more ofa rider ability.
So I think some of theseproblems we see are people
riding.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
That their ability may not be.
They may need to go takelessons.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Yeah, that's hard to tell somebody it is.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
It is when I get a little bit older.
I think I'll lose my filter,like my dad has.
Those conversations will beeasier.
Yeah, there you go, and then we, you know, same thing with
people that are on smallerhorses.
That are not small people.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
We've had those tough conversations too.
Yeah yeah, so how do you?
Is there any good studies onchiropractics as far as, like,
horse behavior or, you know,blood markers or cortisol or SAA
or anything like that you canthink of?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Not that I can think of.
I'm sure they're probably outthere, but I don't know of any
off the top of my head yeah, Idon't know.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
We should do some studies.
Yeah, I'd be down.
So if you're reevaluating ahorse kind kind of what do you?
What do you?
Speaker 2 (12:48):
go on like your records and paying response yeah
, so usually if I adjust themand there's a lot going on, I'll
recommend rechecking them inthree to four weeks to make sure
that it is actually improvingand we don't have something
minor underlying that we'remissing and um, you know, if the
owners make some of the saddlefit changes or get the teeth
floated or something like that,then we can recheck and make
(13:10):
sure everything's kind ofstaying where it needs to be.
Um, sometimes there's horsesthat just live out with other
bullies and they're just alwaysfighting and they're just always
going to be out.
You know what I mean and so,but if it's not responding well,
then usually we'll recommendreferral after that if we're not
(13:32):
getting the response that wewant, right, I think owner
education has come a long wayand people are starting to
recognize things.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
And preventative medicine I know we do a lot more
vaccines than we used to andsome people, just you know,
beginning of show season, theywant to see if there's any
problems.
And preventative medicine Iknow we do a lot more vaccines
than we used to and some people,just you know, beginning of
show season, they want to see ifthere's any problems.
So, as far as like preventativestuff on your end, what can
horse owners do to and I don'twant to say to prevent, have to
call you but like some commonsense things they could do to
(14:02):
try to prevent any of theseproblems and their horses
hurting?
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Yeah.
So get the teeth floated everyyear.
You know I see a lot of jawpain, a lot of pole pain.
Keep the feet done.
Get a good farrier.
Make sure you're getting thefeet done every five to six
weeks.
Sometimes I see horses that areonly getting done every 12 ish
weeks.
That's not enough.
You know they're not going tobe able to stay balanced if
(14:26):
you're not doing them moreregularly than that and then
having good quality tack.
I have a lot of people that arelike well, I can't get a new
saddle, even though this onedoesn't fit, because it was
expensive.
Well, sell that saddle and getanother one.
Horses are expensive, yeahexactly.
So yeah, just having good,proper fitting tack, getting the
teeth done, getting the feetdone and having a good quality
(14:47):
diet.
Because I, I wonder and I'msure you're seeing this now you
guys are scoping horses.
I think there's a lot morestomach ulcers than we ever knew
years ago.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Oh, yeah, we had that conversation with the lady this
morning.
Like a horse that comes in witheven just one symptom will find
an issue in their stomach.
Yeah, I think the AAEP reported60% of the Western performance
horses.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
But I was looking at the time range and I think that
was mainly squamous because Idon't think the scopes and the
techniques were good enough toget to the glandular.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
So I would say and I think think dr sykes has
commented on that I'd say theincidence even even higher, and
I think thoroughbreds is like 90I'd believe that, but I mean if
you look at most of their lives, they're yeah they're fed way
too good.
They're high, strong.
Most of them live in a stall yep, yep so yeah, the scopes opened
up our eyes, yeah, a lot.
And honestly, knock on wood,which I I had one Sunday night,
(15:43):
but our emergency colics, sincewe've started recognizing ulcers
, have kind of gone away,because I think a lot of it was
stomach pain where they wouldn'teat good or drink good and then
that just snowballs into someother intestinal problem and
then we treat it and we're notable to look at the stomach.
So yeah, the gastro, especiallythe stomach health, is super
(16:05):
important in these guys.
And one thing you taught us, Ithink one of the first times you
were here at the horse ownereducation thing was lunging and
exercising in both directions.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Yes, the team ropers.
I don't know if I'll ever getthem trained.
I think they just only lopecircles to the left.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
We'll lunge some on exam they lunge okay, yeah, to
the left Then we go to the right.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
They can't.
It's a challenge, yeah, yeah.
So always go the same amount ofcircles to the left as you do
the right.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
And does that just stretch the soft tissue and just
move things?
Yeah, it just keeps everythingbalanced.
You know, if we were to just umhop around always on our left
leg, our right side would getweaker, you know, and or vice
versa.
So, yeah, you want to just keepeverything balanced, and, and
muscularly, and now that I'mgoing to physical therapy, it's
a game changer.
You have to do all theexercises left side that you do
on the right side to keepeverything balanced.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Are there any misconceptions you see in,
especially horses, but you workon small animals too Any
misconceptions you see with thechiropractic care you know you
mentioned your dad was a skeptic.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yeah, I still have clients that are like I don't
believe in that.
Um, I have some that comearound, you know, I mean usually
I don't meet them unlessthey're willing to give it a try
, right?
But yeah, I've had a lot ofpeople come around and my dad
does a lot of driving of hismules and stuff and so now he's
always telling his friends well,maybe, maybe it's sore, maybe
(17:43):
you should get it adjusted.
Like, I don't want to adjustmules Unless they're good.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Yeah, we had a rope horse.
He was a heel horse and when hewas stopping he was just
stomping his feet.
And we did a lameness examcouldn't find anything.
Took some spinal radiographscouldn't find anything.
Took some, took some spinalradiographs couldn't find
anything.
Consulted with a neurologistcouldn't find anything.
And and that was before we werereal familiar with
(18:09):
chiropractors we finally, youknow, just try that and whatever
.
I don't know who it was, butwhatever fixed it fixed it.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Good, yeah.
So I don't care what, what theydid, as long as we, as long as
it fixed it, yeah, and it's nothere.
It, yeah and it's not here forrechecks, exactly.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Is there any cases like that you've had that have
really made people believe oreven kind of some of the stuff
we do?
I'm like I can't believe thatworked as good as it did.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Yeah, yeah, there's been a few cases where you know
sometimes you're like I'll try.
You know it's Sometimes you'relike I'll try.
You know it's kind of a lastditch effort and if you've ruled
out all the other things, Imean we'll try and see.
And some of them do really well.
Some of them you're still likeI don't know what to do with you
.
But yeah, we've had severalsuccess stories.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
That's awesome.
We're sending one for a bonescan in a couple of weeks.
Yeah, we've blocked it out allthe way, so hopefully, hopefully
, they get an answer.
Yeah, um, as far as routinechiropractics is there, is there
, like you know, shooing.
You said every five, six weeks.
Is there any set time frame onthese horses that, especially
the performance horses that aregetting asked a lot of?
Speaker 2 (19:18):
yeah, like most of my really really busy show horses
I see every four to six weekspretty consistently.
Then you know I have somehorses that I see twice a year.
I have some horses I see onlywhen they need something.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
So it kind of depends on the owner, but I mean
ideally four to six weeks isprobably ideal, just because you
can catch things sooner beforethey become an issue.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Yeah, and then we kind of talked about the rider
posture or biomechanics.
Is there anything people can doto kind of help that, where
they're more balanced and stuff?
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Yeah, yeah.
I think rider fitness isextremely important.
You you're not fit or you'renot balanced, or you get lazy or
you're leaning trail riderswhenever they pack their
saddlebags.
If they could pack them evenly.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
So six beers on one side and six beers on the other,
and then drink one from eachside before you go.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Don't drink all the ones on the right and then the
left, but yeah, so things likethat.
Don't drink all the ones on theright and then the left, but um
, yeah, so things like that.
Um, I have some Amish horses Iwork on and, uh, I couldn't
figure one out for the longesttime.
We tried everything.
Um, they got the teeth done,they changed farriers Uh, we
just could not keep this horsefrom being just body sore.
And finally I was driving downthe road one day, like months
(20:40):
later, and I see this buggy andit's like tilted, severely
tilted, and I'm thinking Iwonder, I wonder if his buggy
has been maintenance, like Iwonder if the wheel is pulling
harder on one side versus theother.
So I call, leave a message,wait two days for the call back
(21:01):
and he's like no, I got a wheelthat's bad.
I've been meaning to get itfixed.
He's like you really think Ishould get that wheel fixed.
I'm like let's try it.
And he did.
And you know, I was seeing thathorse every two to three weeks.
I see her like once a yearmaybe.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Oh, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Like magically different.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
We're a bit of detectives and problem solvers
with some of this stuff and,yeah, you got to get creative
sometimes.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
I remember sometimes like things just click yeah at
the most random times usuallywhen you can't call the owner
like you're in the shower butyeah, that kind of stuff, that's
that's cool to figure out.
Yeah, that's probably one of myfavorite cases yeah, we see we
work on a lot of Amish horses.
Yeah, because they're gettingreally nice horses these days.
Yeah, and they're, they don'twant to replace them.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Yeah, yeah, they are doing a lot more as far as joint
care and things like that andvaccines.
I think they're getting intomore vaccines too.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Yeah, Is there any?
You know, like on my side,every time I get in my inbox,
there's some new tests, there'ssome new diagnostic, there's
some new something.
Now there's AI that can watchlame horses and give you reports
.
Is there anything like thatemerging in the chiropractic
field that you know of?
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Not really.
They do have some continuingeducation classes that they host
there in Kansas, usually likeonce a year, and they do also
have a location in in europe, Ithink somewhere too, and they'll
have like one continuing edclass over there a year too.
Um, but nothing, not really.
(22:38):
It's kind of a quieter area youknow, um, I don't know.
I think there's a lot more inthe way of like magna wave laser
therapy.
I think there's a lot moretechnology coming down that area
, but not so much chiropracticspecific.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Yeah, do you ever recommend like the MagnaWave or
laser stuff before you adjustthem?
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yeah, I think it can really help before and after
Massage.
Magnawave laser it's justanother tool to keep the muscles
nice and relaxed and then youknow they're not constantly
pulling on the bone structure.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
so I think it can help yeah, when I've gone to the
chiropractor I usually even anydoctor's office I tense up my
blood pressure goes up, yeah soI can just feel myself more
tense in there.
And the guy I go to after Ithink the second or third time
he sent me to the like the tensand I think it made his job a
little bit easier, where hecould feel and move stuff around
.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
And then stretching has helped me a ton.
After that sciatica I had.
I never want to go through thatagain.
I bet not, so I startedGoogling all these searches, so
now that's part of my morningroutine.
I just stretch for 15 minutes.
I got a nap, so is there anystretches you'd recommend for
for people to do with horses?
Speaker 2 (23:58):
yeah, they can do the the carrot stretches or the
treat stretches, where you bringthe treat to each side and have
them bend all the way around totheir shoulders and then down
between the front legs and thenlift the front legs and just
bring them straight forward.
Just a nice stretch.
They'll tell you when they'redone stretching.
You know, don't let them pullyour back out, because they will
.
Some of them will really sitdown and pull against you pretty
(24:19):
hard, but those can all helpkeep them limber.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Yeah, is there any good resources on that?
Maybe we should make a videotoday, john, with stretches
While.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Kylie's here yeah, I can show you some.
Yeah, cody's here yeah, I canshow you some.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Yeah, yeah, we'll make a video and put it down in
the okay, the show notes onyoutube.
Yeah, that'd be good.
The other thing I want to talkto you about is, um, you
mentioned all your training andall that continue education.
So if, if somebody decides, Ithink my horse needs to see a
chiropractor, what should theylook for in the chiropractor as
far as training or certificationand stuff like that?
Speaker 2 (24:56):
So I think it's important to realize that.
You know, I have malpracticeinsurance, liability insurance,
and so if something, I hopenothing ever does.
But if something were to gowrong, you know you'll be able
to file a claim or befinancially compensated for your
animal.
And these horses are worth alot of money.
I mean, there's some horses Iwork on that cost $60,000 plus.
(25:18):
You know, if you have someonewho's not certified, who's not a
human chiropractor, who's not aveterinarian, those people
probably don't have liability ormalpractice insurance, and so
you're going to trying to getthem to cover something if
something were to go wrong isgoing to be really hard, you
(25:39):
know Um.
So I think it's important tomake sure people are are
licensed and insured and trainedproperly, because the spinal
cord is close, you know Um it,and so you don't want to to to
risk that.
And I do think there's a lot oflay chiropractors out there that
, um, you know, I don't knowwhere their training comes from.
(26:01):
I don't know if they watch someyoutube videos.
I don't know if they went outwest to somewhere and watched
someone and then made it up asthey went, because it's not an
easy skill to learn.
I mean, I can remember sittingin school thinking how am I
going to do this, how am I goingto know what I'm doing and
feeling, and it took a lot ofguided practice and a lot of
(26:25):
hands-on experience with expertsto be able to find that feel.
And so I do worry for thosehorses that you know.
I mean, hopefully nothing willever go wrong and you probably
will release some things and getsome licks and chews and good
responses, but, um, at the endof the day I don't.
(26:45):
I don't know where theirtraining comes from, and that's
scary to me.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Yeah, and similar with the, the quote-unquote
dentist.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
So, at least in the state of Illinois, what legally
do you have to?
Have to be a chiropractor.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
So you have to be either a human chiropractor or a
veterinarian and then you haveto be trained by one of the
approved schools.
There's a school down in Ocala,there's the one in Wellsville,
Kansas, and there may be acouple other new ones that have
emerged.
Um, and then humanchiropractors are technically
supposed to have a referral froma veterinarian and then, if you
(27:24):
know something were to go wrong, then, um, the veterinarian who
referred you would also be ableto help with the case and stuff
referred.
You would also be able to helpwith the case and stuff.
Um, so, yeah, they, they dorequire you to be in the state
of Illinois, licensed as aveterinarian or a human
chiropractor.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Gotcha, yeah, and I've noticed one thing working
with you is people that'll comein and like, yeah, we went to Dr
Kylie and she doesn't thinkit's this issue, it's that, and
I think that's as far as a horseowner perspective.
I think that's huge because,yeah, you know, it may be
something way more serious thanan adjustment can fix.
Yeah, and maybe that's going tobe part of the whole horse plan
(28:03):
.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
but right, I think it takes.
You know you need dentistry,you need farrier work, you need
lameness exams, you neednutrition, you need body workers
, you need, you need a wholewell-rounded picture.
You know, it's not just a oh,I'm going to take it to see the
chiropractor and it's magicallygoing to be better.
I mean maybe one out of 10cases, but for the most part I'm
(28:26):
having pretty good discussionswith these owners, like, okay,
what are you doing?
What are you know?
What are you seeing?
I want to know.
I want to dive deeper.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
I want to know what the cause is, and that's what we
try to do too.
Not just band-aid, but figureout where, what and why?
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
And then you can come in and get an adjustment every
month or two or three asmaintenance Right, and those
horses really like me.
Yeah, I mean, those horses arelike oh yeah, she made us feel
really good, we like her.
The horses that come one timethat are extremely sore with all
these other issues, they don'treally like to be adjusted.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
It's not comfortable for them you know, yeah, Do you
ever?
Do you have to sedate horseswhen you adjust them?
Speaker 2 (29:06):
I try not to.
I really like to get theirfacial responses and I like them
to kind of be able to braceagainst me.
I sedate probably maybe two orthree horses a year.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Oh really.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
And I probably Cairo a thousand horses a year.
So the goal is not to sedatethem.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Interesting Talking about, like their facial stuff.
I know one thing Autumn trotsmost of my lame ones and we've
done enough together where you,you know we get done trotting or
something she might tell me hereally didn't like.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
I may not be feeling much back there, but she sees it
, but she sees it or noticestheir facial expressions and
stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Horses will tell us if we listen yeah, they really
will.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
They really will.
Good release signs are licking,chewing, yawning, um, just like
some slow, soft blinks of theeyes or just good, big, deep
breaths, or they'll kind of resta leg and just lower their head
.
So yeah, I I try to watch thempretty closely and see if
they're happy, if they're angry,you know.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Yeah.
So if there's somebody outthere considering calling a
chiropractor, what would youtell them?
What kind of advice would yougive them ahead of the
appointment to ensure that itgoes good for the horse and the
chiropractor?
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Yeah.
So I usually tell them you know, make sure you bring your
saddle, your pad, you know, makesure you bring anything that
you think could be helpful forme to look at.
And then usually I will justask how old the horse is?
You know any arthritis, anymaintenance already, like, does
it already get joint injectionsor things like that?
(30:40):
Is it live in a stall?
Does it live?
Turned out just kind of gettinga bigger picture and then
having them bring mostly saddlepad, bridle tack, things like
that, because you know if the,if the bridle pinches somewhere
between the pole and the tmj,you can have issues there too.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
So yeah, that's, that's.
I think a lot of people overoverlook some of that stuff.
Yeah, yeah, and then some ofthat carries into what we see
all the time too.
Yeah, people, horses fightingthe bridle, this and that you
know and I I really wonder.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
I don't know how you'd figure it out, but, um,
how many horses have a headache?
How many horses are justwalking around with a headache?
Speaker 1 (31:19):
I don't know.
We had one, a weanling theother day that I think had west
nile, okay, and I think thoseget a terrible headache yeah,
they'll bang their head off theground, grind their teeth and
yeah so yeah, I know, if I get aheadache, you don't want to be
around me right, yeah, you'rejust miserable, yeah and same
thing with the stomach ulcers.
(31:39):
I had a little bit of heartburnthis morning.
I don't know why, but I justwant to be left alone yeah, so I
can imagine if somebody waswanting to cinch your saddle up
on me.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, ouch um.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
So how can people get a hold of you if they're
listening to this and think theywant you to look at your horse?
Speaker 2 (31:57):
yeah, they can call me um.
My phone number is 217-294-3947.
Call or text.
Um.
I have a facebook page kyliekelly dvm llc.
So, um, they can message afacebook page, call text, call
here and schedule whenever I'mdown here with you guys.
Yeah, I'm pretty, pretty easyto find, I think.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Okay, and then I think John's still got the video
of you working on his horse.
We'll put a link to that downin the show notes too, and
people can kind of they've neverhad it done and kind of get an
idea what you do.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Yeah, and I think we did do a little bit of saddle
fit stuff.
I think we talked basic saddlefit on that one too Awesome.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Well, I think that's.
That's about it.
We'll have you back for sure.
Okay, We'll do this again andmaybe dive a little deeper into
some certain things.
I'll do a little research inthe meantime so I can understand
this a little bit more, butthank you so much for for
stopping by and spending the daywith us.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Yeah, it's always fun coming down here.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Well, we appreciate it, thankful for all you do to
help our horses feel good.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Thank you, thanks for letting me come down.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Alright, and for those of you tuned in, thanks
for listening and until nexttime, take care of your horses
and yourself.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Fitting a surgeon or start to come quick.
Draw the syringe and give it aflick.
Bring your little black bagwith the medicines in.
Bring the trank and
All right, welcome to the Beasley Equine Podcast.
Today in our studio we got DrKylie Kelly, a veterinarian and
equine chiropractor, who's beensweating in the back working on
horses all morning, and now wegot her in the AC and we're
going to talk to her aboutchiropractics.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Veterinarian surgeon or a doctor.
Come quick, draw the syringeand give it a flick.
Bring your little black bagwith the medicines in.
Bring the trank and the crankand the penicillin.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Well, thanks for taking the time out of your day
to do this, yeah exciting.
We appreciate it.
It's always a fun day whenyou're here.
I guess the first thing I wantto know is what I mean.
You went through all the vetschool and then chiropractor
school.
What inspired that route?
What inspired you to be achiropractor?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
so when I was a kid, we had a pony.
That was really a good pony fora lot of years and then all of
a sudden she just startedbucking, trying to buck us off,
and someone told us to takeactually, it's Kevin Woods's mom
told us to take her to achiropractor and my dad was like
there's no way.
There is no way I'm taking thispony to the chiropractor.
(01:09):
And we ended up.
I don't know what changed hismind my mom probably and they
ended up taking her to thechiropractor Her name was Salty
and got her back adjusted andthen she rode like a dream after
that.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
So then we were sold, so that's what inspired you to
see those results.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yeah, and then when I was in vet school I went to a
conference AAEP and they wereset up there.
The college was at a booth andthey offered a scholarship, and
so I applied and got acceptedand like well, I guess I'll do
this.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
And where was that at ?
Where'd you apply?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Options for animals in Wellsville, Kansas.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
And how long?
How long is that?
Speaker 2 (01:51):
You go like a week a month for five to seven months,
depending on how long the weeksare.
Basically, sometimes it's along weekend, sometimes it's a
whole week, and then at the endyou you come back each time and
you have homework and casestudies, and then you go back
and re-practice and learnsomething new and do case
(02:11):
studies the whole time, and thenyou take a test and then you
graduate.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Oh nice.
How was that different than vetschool?
I mean probably a lot.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Yeah, it wasn't a lot different, like I started it
when I was still in vet school.
So I was in my fourth year andI would do them on my off blocks
.
I tried to schedule around that.
So I was almost done with chiroschool when I graduated vet
school so I just had a couplemore sessions to go back and
finish after that and theytaught like neurology, anatomy,
(02:44):
physiology, like a lot of thethings I'd already learned in
vet school.
And then the hardest part waslearning the chiropractic
technique.
For me because the school hashuman chiropractors and
veterinarians and so the humanchiropractors knew all about the
adjustments and how that workedand we knew all about the
anatomy of the horses and dogs.
(03:04):
So it was kind of nice to worktogether.
They helped us, we helped them.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
So it was human chiropractors learning to do
animals.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yep, yep.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Oh, that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah, it was a combined program.
Okay, so can you kind of explainwhat chiropractic involves as
far as like your assessment ofthe animal to what you do next,
and and so on so a lot of timesI get a history from the owner
like are you noticing anything?
And some horses they arenoticing, like they're stiff to
the right, they don't want toturn, they're not taking their
(03:37):
leads, their backs or theythey'll kind of give you an
update and some horses they'relike I just check them over,
they to be okay, but we justwant to get them adjusted.
So kind of the owner will giveyou a history first and then
sometimes we'll watch them movearound if they're worried about
a lameness or something likethat, and I'll send them to you.
But you know, so we'll watchthem go.
(04:01):
We'll start kind of justfeeling over them.
See where they're painful,they'll tell you.
You know, they'll usually pintheir ears or give you like a
stomp of the foot.
They'll just look upsetwhenever you hit a sore spot or
they'll just kind of dip down ormove away from you and so kind
of just do a baseline and seewhere they're hurting.
(04:21):
And then the goal is to getthese vertebral subluxations to
just restore motion.
And you don't need a lot ofmotion, we just need a little
bit of motion to give the nerveand the blood flow and the
muscle a chance to kind of relaxand function normally again.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
When you say vertebral subluxation, can you
explain that just a little bit?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah, so everybody always calls me when they think
their horse has a dislocated hipor a broken pelvis, their goat
has a dislocated something, andI don't treat dislocations, I
only treat subluxations, and thedifference is huge.
So dislocations are a reallybig, dramatic thing.
(05:04):
Subluxations are, things arejust stuck, they're just barely
stuck, so there's just notmotion in your vertebral
segments.
So that's what we're trying totreat is those areas that are
just stuck.
They might be stuck up down tothe left, to the right.
We don't know until we get inthere and really start feeling.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
It's really a feel and that was the hardest part of
going to school was figuringout how to find that feel Right.
And then why?
How come the vertebrae getsstuck?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
It's just like in people you know.
I mean you might roll wrong orsleep on your neck wrong, have a
traumatic injury, get kicked byanother horse, or the saddle
might pinch you for too long.
Yeah, there can be a lot ofreasons.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Yeah, that's when you wish the horses could talk.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yes, exactly, and that would be great.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
So what are some of the common things?
You see, what are most of thehorses you work on?
Quarter horses.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Yeah, I would say probably the majority are
quarter horses, roping horses,um, I do do some hunter jumpers
and some dressage horses and um,but mostly the biggest issue I
see is saddle fit really yeah,or you know people over pad them
and then they get really tightand pinched um, or they don't
(06:22):
have a good quality pad and it'slike concrete.
Yeah, they don't clean it.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
And you're trained in saddle fitting too right.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Yeah, I did learn some saddle fitting in school.
I'm not like a certified expertby any means, but I know where
to feel and, like a lot of timesyou'll put the saddle on and
they'll tell you whenever yourun your hand under the shoulder
, if it's too tight.
They do not like it yeah, I canimagine.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Yeah, so if um say there's a horse owner listening
thinking maybe I need my horseto see a chiropractor, what are
some things they can look for?
Or notice that maybe theyshould ring a chiropractor?
Speaker 2 (07:02):
yeah, a lot of times.
Um, stiffness, you know.
Are they not able to turn theirhead to the left, to the right?
Can they bring their you knowhead down between their front
legs so you can try to see ifthey can do those stretches?
And if they can, you know, move, you know, their neck in a
smooth motion, not jerky, nothead tilting, because some
(07:25):
horses will try to cheat toalleviate pressure.
If they run their hand down thehorse's back or they're
brushing them and they'reflinching or kind of buckling,
that can be signs too.
Or just being a little bit offin the hind end or not taking
the leads or cross-firing,things like that can indicate
that there's something stuck upthere.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Cool.
So you said you know if it's alameness issue you'll send it to
us or refer.
How do how do you incorporatechiropractics with, like the
farrier work or other medicalthings?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
and stuff like that.
So usually one of the firstquestions I ask people is when
was the last time their teethwere floated?
You know, take a look at thefeet, see if the hooves looked
balanced, see if there's anythrush um or misfitting shoes.
Sometimes I pick up feet andthey have different size shoes
on different front feet, so, um.
(08:21):
So we try to talk about that too.
We try to talk about diet, um,and just you know, where does
the horse live?
Does it live in a stall?
Does it live turned out?
So I try to get as much of ahistory from the owners as I can
and then make recommendationsbased on you know what they're
telling me.
The lifestyle is like.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Yeah, and then there's kind of a misconception
out there.
We've had people that have hadlameness issues that go straight
to the chiropractor for weeksand then spend all their money
when it's an underlying lamenessissue, and I've experienced
that with my knee trouble.
I started lymphindexing.
I know my SI is out and I'm atthe chiropractor, so do you see
(09:02):
stuff like that too?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Absolutely, yeah.
Yeah, I try to make sure peopleunderstand.
I'm not a miracle worker, not aholistic magical person.
So if your saddle doesn't fit,you're going to be back to see
me in a couple of weeks becauseyou're going to have the same
problem.
I'm just band-aiding some ofthese problems.
If you have lameness, thenyou're going to be back again
(09:25):
because you're going to say,well, you didn't do your job.
My horse is still sore.
Well, I don't, I can't fix aswollen hawk, you know.
So, yeah, I try to refer thosepeople out and, um, you know
it's.
Everybody says, well, it's goodjob security.
Well, it is.
But if I take all their moneybefore they come to you, they
don't have any money to pay forall your lameness, workup stuff.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
So, yeah, and you gotta sleep at night too.
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
I like to refer the medicinecases and I think people
appreciate that too, like if Itell them I don't know what's
going on, but I know somebodythat probably does right right
and then the.
The whole vet community is sucha great network it's great,
yeah, and then I'm alwaystexting somebody, phone a friend
(10:08):
.
People call me.
The stuff they're not trainedon, yeah, um.
So I guess the other thing Iwant to know is do you ever
watch people ride?
Speaker 2 (10:17):
to evaluate yeah, sometimes I do.
Do you ever refer?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
them to a human chiropractor.
I do actually.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah, I actually have one client off the top of my
head.
I adjust two of her horses andafter the second time of working
on them I said Natalie, thesehorses are out in the exact same
spots.
Each horse would be left,shoulder, right, hip, and I'm
like I don't know why.
Why are they not getting better?
Why are they always out in thesame spot and why are their
(10:45):
listings identical from horse tohorse?
That's not normal usually.
So I asked her.
I said do you go to thechiropractor?
And she's like oh some.
And I said have you beenrecently?
And she said no, and so I saidwill you do me a favor and go?
She said yeah, yeah.
So her mom she's a teenager Hermom took her to the
chiropractor and then sent me aFacebook message and said she
(11:06):
was extremely out of the lineand had a lot, of, a lot of
things going on and the kidfeels so much better.
And then the next time I workedon the horses, they were so
much better, and so that waspretty cool.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Is that just a balance thing, like where she
was, I think?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
so, yeah, her pelvis was out and, oh, I don't know
exactly that.
They told me exactly what waswrong, but her pelvis was like
shifted, so whenever she rodeshe was like cockeyed.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Yeah and that just puts more weight or pressure
yeah huh yeah, that'sinteresting.
Some of the stuff I've seenit's um which I'm not trained in
chiropractics, but it's more ofa rider ability.
So I think some of theseproblems we see are people
riding.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
That their ability may not be.
They may need to go takelessons.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Yeah, that's hard to tell somebody it is.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
It is when I get a little bit older.
I think I'll lose my filter,like my dad has.
Those conversations will beeasier.
Yeah, there you go, and then we, you know, same thing with
people that are on smallerhorses.
That are not small people.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
We've had those tough conversations too.
Yeah yeah, so how do you?
Is there any good studies onchiropractics as far as, like,
horse behavior or, you know,blood markers or cortisol or SAA
or anything like that you canthink of?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Not that I can think of.
I'm sure they're probably outthere, but I don't know of any
off the top of my head yeah, Idon't know.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
We should do some studies.
Yeah, I'd be down.
So if you're reevaluating ahorse kind kind of what do you?
What do you?
Speaker 2 (12:48):
go on like your records and paying response yeah
, so usually if I adjust themand there's a lot going on, I'll
recommend rechecking them inthree to four weeks to make sure
that it is actually improvingand we don't have something
minor underlying that we'remissing and um, you know, if the
owners make some of the saddlefit changes or get the teeth
floated or something like that,then we can recheck and make
(13:10):
sure everything's kind ofstaying where it needs to be.
Um, sometimes there's horsesthat just live out with other
bullies and they're just alwaysfighting and they're just always
going to be out.
You know what I mean and so,but if it's not responding well,
then usually we'll recommendreferral after that if we're not
(13:32):
getting the response that wewant, right, I think owner
education has come a long wayand people are starting to
recognize things.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
And preventative medicine I know we do a lot more
vaccines than we used to andsome people, just you know,
beginning of show season, theywant to see if there's any
problems.
And preventative medicine Iknow we do a lot more vaccines
than we used to and some people,just you know, beginning of
show season, they want to see ifthere's any problems.
So, as far as like preventativestuff on your end, what can
horse owners do to and I don'twant to say to prevent, have to
call you but like some commonsense things they could do to
(14:02):
try to prevent any of theseproblems and their horses
hurting?
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Yeah.
So get the teeth floated everyyear.
You know I see a lot of jawpain, a lot of pole pain.
Keep the feet done.
Get a good farrier.
Make sure you're getting thefeet done every five to six
weeks.
Sometimes I see horses that areonly getting done every 12 ish
weeks.
That's not enough.
You know they're not going tobe able to stay balanced if
(14:26):
you're not doing them moreregularly than that and then
having good quality tack.
I have a lot of people that arelike well, I can't get a new
saddle, even though this onedoesn't fit, because it was
expensive.
Well, sell that saddle and getanother one.
Horses are expensive, yeahexactly.
So yeah, just having good,proper fitting tack, getting the
teeth done, getting the feetdone and having a good quality
(14:47):
diet.
Because I, I wonder and I'msure you're seeing this now you
guys are scoping horses.
I think there's a lot morestomach ulcers than we ever knew
years ago.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Oh, yeah, we had that conversation with the lady this
morning.
Like a horse that comes in witheven just one symptom will find
an issue in their stomach.
Yeah, I think the AAEP reported60% of the Western performance
horses.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
But I was looking at the time range and I think that
was mainly squamous because Idon't think the scopes and the
techniques were good enough toget to the glandular.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
So I would say and I think think dr sykes has
commented on that I'd say theincidence even even higher, and
I think thoroughbreds is like 90I'd believe that, but I mean if
you look at most of their lives, they're yeah they're fed way
too good.
They're high, strong.
Most of them live in a stall yep, yep so yeah, the scopes opened
up our eyes, yeah, a lot.
And honestly, knock on wood,which I I had one Sunday night,
(15:43):
but our emergency colics, sincewe've started recognizing ulcers
, have kind of gone away,because I think a lot of it was
stomach pain where they wouldn'teat good or drink good and then
that just snowballs into someother intestinal problem and
then we treat it and we're notable to look at the stomach.
So yeah, the gastro, especiallythe stomach health, is super
(16:05):
important in these guys.
And one thing you taught us, Ithink one of the first times you
were here at the horse ownereducation thing was lunging and
exercising in both directions.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Yes, the team ropers.
I don't know if I'll ever getthem trained.
I think they just only lopecircles to the left.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
We'll lunge some on exam they lunge okay, yeah, to
the left Then we go to the right.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
They can't.
It's a challenge, yeah, yeah.
So always go the same amount ofcircles to the left as you do
the right.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
And does that just stretch the soft tissue and just
move things?
Yeah, it just keeps everythingbalanced.
You know, if we were to just umhop around always on our left
leg, our right side would getweaker, you know, and or vice
versa.
So, yeah, you want to just keepeverything balanced, and, and
muscularly, and now that I'mgoing to physical therapy, it's
a game changer.
You have to do all theexercises left side that you do
on the right side to keepeverything balanced.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Are there any misconceptions you see in,
especially horses, but you workon small animals too Any
misconceptions you see with thechiropractic care you know you
mentioned your dad was a skeptic.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yeah, I still have clients that are like I don't
believe in that.
Um, I have some that comearound, you know, I mean usually
I don't meet them unlessthey're willing to give it a try
, right?
But yeah, I've had a lot ofpeople come around and my dad
does a lot of driving of hismules and stuff and so now he's
always telling his friends well,maybe, maybe it's sore, maybe
(17:43):
you should get it adjusted.
Like, I don't want to adjustmules Unless they're good.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Yeah, we had a rope horse.
He was a heel horse and when hewas stopping he was just
stomping his feet.
And we did a lameness examcouldn't find anything.
Took some spinal radiographscouldn't find anything.
Took some, took some spinalradiographs couldn't find
anything.
Consulted with a neurologistcouldn't find anything.
And and that was before we werereal familiar with
(18:09):
chiropractors we finally, youknow, just try that and whatever
.
I don't know who it was, butwhatever fixed it fixed it.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Good, yeah.
So I don't care what, what theydid, as long as we, as long as
it fixed it, yeah, and it's nothere.
It, yeah and it's not here forrechecks, exactly.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Is there any cases like that you've had that have
really made people believe oreven kind of some of the stuff
we do?
I'm like I can't believe thatworked as good as it did.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Yeah, yeah, there's been a few cases where you know
sometimes you're like I'll try.
You know it's Sometimes you'relike I'll try.
You know it's kind of a lastditch effort and if you've ruled
out all the other things, Imean we'll try and see.
And some of them do really well.
Some of them you're still likeI don't know what to do with you
.
But yeah, we've had severalsuccess stories.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
That's awesome.
We're sending one for a bonescan in a couple of weeks.
Yeah, we've blocked it out allthe way, so hopefully, hopefully
, they get an answer.
Yeah, um, as far as routinechiropractics is there, is there
, like you know, shooing.
You said every five, six weeks.
Is there any set time frame onthese horses that, especially
the performance horses that aregetting asked a lot of?
Speaker 2 (19:18):
yeah, like most of my really really busy show horses
I see every four to six weekspretty consistently.
Then you know I have somehorses that I see twice a year.
I have some horses I see onlywhen they need something.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
So it kind of depends on the owner, but I mean
ideally four to six weeks isprobably ideal, just because you
can catch things sooner beforethey become an issue.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Yeah, and then we kind of talked about the rider
posture or biomechanics.
Is there anything people can doto kind of help that, where
they're more balanced and stuff?
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Yeah, yeah.
I think rider fitness isextremely important.
You you're not fit or you'renot balanced, or you get lazy or
you're leaning trail riderswhenever they pack their
saddlebags.
If they could pack them evenly.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
So six beers on one side and six beers on the other,
and then drink one from eachside before you go.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Don't drink all the ones on the right and then the
left, but yeah, so things likethat.
Don't drink all the ones on theright and then the left, but um
, yeah, so things like that.
Um, I have some Amish horses Iwork on and, uh, I couldn't
figure one out for the longesttime.
We tried everything.
Um, they got the teeth done,they changed farriers Uh, we
just could not keep this horsefrom being just body sore.
And finally I was driving downthe road one day, like months
(20:40):
later, and I see this buggy andit's like tilted, severely
tilted, and I'm thinking Iwonder, I wonder if his buggy
has been maintenance, like Iwonder if the wheel is pulling
harder on one side versus theother.
So I call, leave a message,wait two days for the call back
(21:01):
and he's like no, I got a wheelthat's bad.
I've been meaning to get itfixed.
He's like you really think Ishould get that wheel fixed.
I'm like let's try it.
And he did.
And you know, I was seeing thathorse every two to three weeks.
I see her like once a yearmaybe.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Oh, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Like magically different.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
We're a bit of detectives and problem solvers
with some of this stuff and,yeah, you got to get creative
sometimes.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
I remember sometimes like things just click yeah at
the most random times usuallywhen you can't call the owner
like you're in the shower butyeah, that kind of stuff, that's
that's cool to figure out.
Yeah, that's probably one of myfavorite cases yeah, we see we
work on a lot of Amish horses.
Yeah, because they're gettingreally nice horses these days.
Yeah, and they're, they don'twant to replace them.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Yeah, yeah, they are doing a lot more as far as joint
care and things like that andvaccines.
I think they're getting intomore vaccines too.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Yeah, Is there any?
You know, like on my side,every time I get in my inbox,
there's some new tests, there'ssome new diagnostic, there's
some new something.
Now there's AI that can watchlame horses and give you reports
.
Is there anything like thatemerging in the chiropractic
field that you know of?
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Not really.
They do have some continuingeducation classes that they host
there in Kansas, usually likeonce a year, and they do also
have a location in in europe, Ithink somewhere too, and they'll
have like one continuing edclass over there a year too.
Um, but nothing, not really.
(22:38):
It's kind of a quieter area youknow, um, I don't know.
I think there's a lot more inthe way of like magna wave laser
therapy.
I think there's a lot moretechnology coming down that area
, but not so much chiropracticspecific.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Yeah, do you ever recommend like the MagnaWave or
laser stuff before you adjustthem?
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yeah, I think it can really help before and after
Massage.
Magnawave laser it's justanother tool to keep the muscles
nice and relaxed and then youknow they're not constantly
pulling on the bone structure.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
so I think it can help yeah, when I've gone to the
chiropractor I usually even anydoctor's office I tense up my
blood pressure goes up, yeah soI can just feel myself more
tense in there.
And the guy I go to after Ithink the second or third time
he sent me to the like the tensand I think it made his job a
little bit easier, where hecould feel and move stuff around
.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
And then stretching has helped me a ton.
After that sciatica I had.
I never want to go through thatagain.
I bet not, so I startedGoogling all these searches, so
now that's part of my morningroutine.
I just stretch for 15 minutes.
I got a nap, so is there anystretches you'd recommend for
for people to do with horses?
Speaker 2 (23:58):
yeah, they can do the the carrot stretches or the
treat stretches, where you bringthe treat to each side and have
them bend all the way around totheir shoulders and then down
between the front legs and thenlift the front legs and just
bring them straight forward.
Just a nice stretch.
They'll tell you when they'redone stretching.
You know, don't let them pullyour back out, because they will
.
Some of them will really sitdown and pull against you pretty
(24:19):
hard, but those can all helpkeep them limber.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Yeah, is there any good resources on that?
Maybe we should make a videotoday, john, with stretches
While.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Kylie's here yeah, I can show you some.
Yeah, cody's here yeah, I canshow you some.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Yeah, yeah, we'll make a video and put it down in
the okay, the show notes onyoutube.
Yeah, that'd be good.
The other thing I want to talkto you about is, um, you
mentioned all your training andall that continue education.
So if, if somebody decides, Ithink my horse needs to see a
chiropractor, what should theylook for in the chiropractor as
far as training or certificationand stuff like that?
Speaker 2 (24:56):
So I think it's important to realize that.
You know, I have malpracticeinsurance, liability insurance,
and so if something, I hopenothing ever does.
But if something were to gowrong, you know you'll be able
to file a claim or befinancially compensated for your
animal.
And these horses are worth alot of money.
I mean, there's some horses Iwork on that cost $60,000 plus.
(25:18):
You know, if you have someonewho's not certified, who's not a
human chiropractor, who's not aveterinarian, those people
probably don't have liability ormalpractice insurance, and so
you're going to trying to getthem to cover something if
something were to go wrong isgoing to be really hard, you
(25:39):
know Um.
So I think it's important tomake sure people are are
licensed and insured and trainedproperly, because the spinal
cord is close, you know Um it,and so you don't want to to to
risk that.
And I do think there's a lot oflay chiropractors out there that
, um, you know, I don't knowwhere their training comes from.
(26:01):
I don't know if they watch someyoutube videos.
I don't know if they went outwest to somewhere and watched
someone and then made it up asthey went, because it's not an
easy skill to learn.
I mean, I can remember sittingin school thinking how am I
going to do this, how am I goingto know what I'm doing and
feeling, and it took a lot ofguided practice and a lot of
(26:25):
hands-on experience with expertsto be able to find that feel.
And so I do worry for thosehorses that you know.
I mean, hopefully nothing willever go wrong and you probably
will release some things and getsome licks and chews and good
responses, but, um, at the endof the day I don't.
(26:45):
I don't know where theirtraining comes from, and that's
scary to me.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Yeah, and similar with the, the quote-unquote
dentist.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
So, at least in the state of Illinois, what legally
do you have to?
Have to be a chiropractor.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
So you have to be either a human chiropractor or a
veterinarian and then you haveto be trained by one of the
approved schools.
There's a school down in Ocala,there's the one in Wellsville,
Kansas, and there may be acouple other new ones that have
emerged.
Um, and then humanchiropractors are technically
supposed to have a referral froma veterinarian and then, if you
(27:24):
know something were to go wrong, then, um, the veterinarian who
referred you would also be ableto help with the case and stuff
referred.
You would also be able to helpwith the case and stuff.
Um, so, yeah, they, they dorequire you to be in the state
of Illinois, licensed as aveterinarian or a human
chiropractor.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Gotcha, yeah, and I've noticed one thing working
with you is people that'll comein and like, yeah, we went to Dr
Kylie and she doesn't thinkit's this issue, it's that, and
I think that's as far as a horseowner perspective.
I think that's huge because,yeah, you know, it may be
something way more serious thanan adjustment can fix.
Yeah, and maybe that's going tobe part of the whole horse plan
(28:03):
.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
but right, I think it takes.
You know you need dentistry,you need farrier work, you need
lameness exams, you neednutrition, you need body workers
, you need, you need a wholewell-rounded picture.
You know, it's not just a oh,I'm going to take it to see the
chiropractor and it's magicallygoing to be better.
I mean maybe one out of 10cases, but for the most part I'm
(28:26):
having pretty good discussionswith these owners, like, okay,
what are you doing?
What are you know?
What are you seeing?
I want to know.
I want to dive deeper.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
I want to know what the cause is, and that's what we
try to do too.
Not just band-aid, but figureout where, what and why?
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
And then you can come in and get an adjustment every
month or two or three asmaintenance Right, and those
horses really like me.
Yeah, I mean, those horses arelike oh yeah, she made us feel
really good, we like her.
The horses that come one timethat are extremely sore with all
these other issues, they don'treally like to be adjusted.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
It's not comfortable for them you know, yeah, Do you
ever?
Do you have to sedate horseswhen you adjust them?
Speaker 2 (29:06):
I try not to.
I really like to get theirfacial responses and I like them
to kind of be able to braceagainst me.
I sedate probably maybe two orthree horses a year.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Oh really.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
And I probably Cairo a thousand horses a year.
So the goal is not to sedatethem.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Interesting Talking about, like their facial stuff.
I know one thing Autumn trotsmost of my lame ones and we've
done enough together where you,you know we get done trotting or
something she might tell me hereally didn't like.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
I may not be feeling much back there, but she sees it
, but she sees it or noticestheir facial expressions and
stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Horses will tell us if we listen yeah, they really
will.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
They really will.
Good release signs are licking,chewing, yawning, um, just like
some slow, soft blinks of theeyes or just good, big, deep
breaths, or they'll kind of resta leg and just lower their head
.
So yeah, I I try to watch thempretty closely and see if
they're happy, if they're angry,you know.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Yeah.
So if there's somebody outthere considering calling a
chiropractor, what would youtell them?
What kind of advice would yougive them ahead of the
appointment to ensure that itgoes good for the horse and the
chiropractor?
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Yeah.
So I usually tell them you know, make sure you bring your
saddle, your pad, you know, makesure you bring anything that
you think could be helpful forme to look at.
And then usually I will justask how old the horse is?
You know any arthritis, anymaintenance already, like, does
it already get joint injectionsor things like that?
(30:40):
Is it live in a stall?
Does it live?
Turned out just kind of gettinga bigger picture and then
having them bring mostly saddlepad, bridle tack, things like
that, because you know if the,if the bridle pinches somewhere
between the pole and the tmj,you can have issues there too.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
So yeah, that's, that's.
I think a lot of people overoverlook some of that stuff.
Yeah, yeah, and then some ofthat carries into what we see
all the time too.
Yeah, people, horses fightingthe bridle, this and that you
know and I I really wonder.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
I don't know how you'd figure it out, but, um,
how many horses have a headache?
How many horses are justwalking around with a headache?
Speaker 1 (31:19):
I don't know.
We had one, a weanling theother day that I think had west
nile, okay, and I think thoseget a terrible headache yeah,
they'll bang their head off theground, grind their teeth and
yeah so yeah, I know, if I get aheadache, you don't want to be
around me right, yeah, you'rejust miserable, yeah and same
thing with the stomach ulcers.
(31:39):
I had a little bit of heartburnthis morning.
I don't know why, but I justwant to be left alone yeah, so I
can imagine if somebody waswanting to cinch your saddle up
on me.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, ouch um.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
So how can people get a hold of you if they're
listening to this and think theywant you to look at your horse?
Speaker 2 (31:57):
yeah, they can call me um.
My phone number is 217-294-3947.
Call or text.
Um.
I have a facebook page kyliekelly dvm llc.
So, um, they can message afacebook page, call text, call
here and schedule whenever I'mdown here with you guys.
Yeah, I'm pretty, pretty easyto find, I think.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Okay, and then I think John's still got the video
of you working on his horse.
We'll put a link to that downin the show notes too, and
people can kind of they've neverhad it done and kind of get an
idea what you do.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Yeah, and I think we did do a little bit of saddle
fit stuff.
I think we talked basic saddlefit on that one too Awesome.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Well, I think that's.
That's about it.
We'll have you back for sure.
Okay, We'll do this again andmaybe dive a little deeper into
some certain things.
I'll do a little research inthe meantime so I can understand
this a little bit more, butthank you so much for for
stopping by and spending the daywith us.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Yeah, it's always fun coming down here.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Well, we appreciate it, thankful for all you do to
help our horses feel good.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Thank you, thanks for letting me come down.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Alright, and for those of you tuned in, thanks
for listening and until nexttime, take care of your horses
and yourself.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Fitting a surgeon or start to come quick.
Draw the syringe and give it aflick.
Bring your little black bagwith the medicines in.
Bring the trank and
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