Men’s Mental Health, Toxic Masculinity & Vulnerability | Josh “Guff” Guffey - Beat The Mental Health Out Of It! | Dark Humor Conversations On Mental Health, Trauma & Society

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_03 (00:22):
A one, a five, six, seven, eight.
Man, man, man, man, man, man,man, man.

SPEAKER_01 (00:31):
Woo!

SPEAKER_03 (00:32):
Is that about as far as we need?

SPEAKER_04 (00:34):
Is that was that bad enough?
I feel like it was.
Welcome to the hooey.
Bottom bottom?
Bottom hooy.
Of your bottom.
I've done that.
I've done that one before.
I I prefer the top hooey.
I like some bottom hooies.
Preference Guff?

SPEAKER_02 (00:49):
Whatever I can get, these.
Wait a minute.
We're not talking about men,though, right?

SPEAKER_04 (00:53):
Well, this is.
I don't want to.
This is three pets, three fagsand a big black mic.

SPEAKER_05 (00:59):
And a dream.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00):
And a dream.

SPEAKER_05 (01:01):
Off to a roaring start.
As usual.

SPEAKER_04 (01:03):
Yeah.
Okay, fellas.
You know what we're talkingabout.
I do.
Bitches and hoes.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09):
All these bitches and all these hoes.

SPEAKER_04 (01:11):
You know, one of my favorite songs is As Titties.
As and titties.
It's a good song.
Love it.
Why do you laugh?
You know this valley alwayscard.
Okay, fellas, we're talkingabout men.
Men.
Manly men.
Um, so the the whole idea ofthis one is as uh we're not

(01:34):
really aiming to shit on ladiesor uh unless they like that.
No clue.
Unless they're into that.
Unless they're into that.
No clue steamers.
No, this is gonna be a bitranny.
It's gonna be a good time.
You got three frustrated fellas.
And we're gonna vent um andwe're gonna talk about stuff.

(01:55):
Buckle up.
Buckle up.
Alright.
All right.
So actually, we're not gonnaadhere to a script, but I I did
lay out talking points.
It's long.
As many of you have uh suggestedthat we do.
So you know what?

SPEAKER_00 (02:14):
Get to the damn point.

SPEAKER_04 (02:15):
So I have six seconds.
Sections.
Um boy.
So we're gonna proceed throughthem and you know stuff.
Um okay.
Section one, fellas.

(02:36):
Article Article Two.

SPEAKER_05 (02:39):
Uh legit, this is a long document.
He is not kidding.

SPEAKER_04 (02:44):
No, I put it, I put this together.

SPEAKER_05 (02:45):
You ladies, you pissed him off.

SPEAKER_02 (02:47):
No, it's it's uh I'm reading my uh divorce paperwork
all over again.
Did you read it word for word?
No.

SPEAKER_04 (02:54):
Oh.

SPEAKER_05 (02:55):
Are we gonna have a party?

SPEAKER_04 (02:56):
I just knew the divorce was I just knew the
divorce was happening, and Isigned the damn thing.

SPEAKER_02 (03:00):
Yeah, I just signed it.
Goodbye.

SPEAKER_04 (03:02):
Okay, so section one.
The burden of protection andmasculine duty.
Right.
Duty.

SPEAKER_05 (03:12):
None of them has protected me at all.
The women.
Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (03:17):
So at all.
Yeah, I mean, wow, just keepdoubling down.
Uh so um, you know, I got sometalking points here.
Okay.
Um I I have to say, you know,uh, even myself, you know, I'm
in a very healthy relationship.
Um and thank you, thank you.

(03:39):
I mean, it's but it is work.
It's not like it's it's youknow, we we've had our own
struggles.
But yeah, what I wanted to sayabout that is there is an
element of of protection that isplaced upon me, and I know you
fellows as well in yourrelationships that is unique to
a man.

(03:59):
Um we are expected to be theprotector.
And I think that's a role that'sbeen kind of established for us.
I think it's subliminal.

SPEAKER_05 (04:10):
I mean And that's the other thing.
What what which side of the beddo you guys sleep on?
One closest to the door orfurthest away?
I am closest to the door.
On purpose.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (04:20):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (04:20):
I've experienced both.

SPEAKER_04 (04:22):
Yeah?

SPEAKER_02 (04:22):
Yeah.
It's never been.

SPEAKER_04 (04:24):
Do you really think about it or just whatever side
you're comfortable on?

SPEAKER_05 (04:26):
Side I'm comfortable.
Okay.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah, that makes sense.
About it.
You've heard it here.
Not the four out of fivedentists, but at least the three
out two out of three men.
Sleep by the door.
I don't know.
Back door.
Hey, there's actually a study inthat one.
There's real dentists, so Idon't know.
Trying to bring credit dentistsout there.

SPEAKER_04 (04:46):
There are people who clean our teeth that don't sleep
by the door.
Don't sleep by the door.
We need to look up thosestatistics.
Yeah.
Um, but but what's interestingabout that to me, and I was
thinking about it, is yeah,that's an innate thing I think
most men are born with.
It is the natural thing we wantto be the protectors.
And while that comes with itsown inconveniences and pressure,

(05:08):
I take pride in that.
Agreed.
You know, I I'm okay being theprotector.
I don't know that and this isn'tmeant to be derogatory towards
my wife or anybody.
I wouldn't trust anyone else,and probably even another man,
really, but I certainly wouldn'ttrust anyone else to be the
protector.
You know, and I think that'ssomething to take pride in.

SPEAKER_05 (05:28):
Um would we all agree that that is a leadership
quality?
Sure.
I think by default, yeah.
So I mean I think it definitelygets categorized.
And whether whether you thinkit's innate born into us, or
whether I, you know, it's taughtthrough gender roles or however
deep we want to get into this,no uh gender studies degree

(05:50):
necessary, but we I think we allum have experienced that it is
not even just innate to us, butthe opposite gender comes to
expect it from us as well.
And so it's really just sort ofthis agreed upon, unspoken, this
is the way it is.
Yeah.

(06:10):
Yeah.
That's not one of the genderrules they fight.

SPEAKER_04 (06:14):
Yeah, I'd say so.
And and and I I said I don'tknow that I have a problem with
that one personally, honestly.
I No.
You know, it's like, you know,I'm not working right now, I'm
not providing money, I'm notdoing that.
But what I can say is I makesure those damn doors are locked
and everybody's secure and andall that, and that's something
that I know I know my wifeexpects, and I also don't mind

(06:36):
that being expected.
I mean, that particular thing.
There are other things that areexpected of men uh that are that
are probably aren't as right.

SPEAKER_05 (06:44):
So we starting with the soft the soft with soft
pitch right now.
Oh yeah, we'll get there.
The easy ones.
Yeah, we gotta get mad first.

SPEAKER_04 (06:51):
Oh, we gotta get it.
No, actually I d I organized it.
Oh, you did.
I did.
I I really put a lot of work.

SPEAKER_03 (06:55):
Very nice.

SPEAKER_04 (06:56):
So um uh men, the organizers.
Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_05 (07:00):
Structure.
Maybe, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (07:01):
I'll tell you what, structure is everything to me,
um, which I have a complete lackof in life right now, just due
to having an eight-month-oldpuppy and um a uh one-year-old
son.
It's in and I will say uh mywife has really come together
and picked up some things umthat I wasn't expecting that she

(07:23):
she did pick up.
Well, I mean, like um more morehouse chores that that I wasn't
expecting.
And you know, I think I said onhere, and she would not have a
problem with me saying she's nota very um organized um uh queen
person when it comes to keepingthings tidy.
Um, you know, we uh to give anexample, you know, when she

(07:44):
lived in an apartment with herfriend, um my dad, you know,
managed those apartments and hehad to pay to have the carpet
and the curtains uh because shewas that bad.
So um and you know her familymakes fun of it too.

SPEAKER_05 (07:58):
She came to live with you because she got kicked
out of the apartments.

SPEAKER_04 (08:01):
Well, uh the only reason she that happened is
because we moved into anapartment together, and that is
something that over the years,you know, I I fought against to
make sure things weremaintained, and it was just like
a lot of the time apartmentcomplex will do that anyway.

SPEAKER_02 (08:14):
Like the carpet.

SPEAKER_04 (08:16):
That is true, that's a good point.
Right.
But you know, her don't don'tdon't no, don't do that.
She's terrible.

SPEAKER_02 (08:23):
No, I'm not discouraging that.

SPEAKER_05 (08:24):
Well, I mean it was at least the apartment complex
was not gonna be able toreprimand.
You at least can roll up thenewspaper and go, no.

SPEAKER_04 (08:34):
But what I was gonna say is I mean legally legally
you can no but you know whatwe're kidding.

SPEAKER_03 (08:41):
Are we?
No.
Yes, no, yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_04 (08:44):
What do you think?
Yes.
But but what I was gonna say is,you know, that um that is
something that I had honestlyjust given up on a whole lot.
I was like, this is a losingbattle.
I don't want to have to spendforever cleaning the house and
then two days of being torn up.
So, but what I was gonna say is,you know, ever since Max, you
know, those things are actuallystarting to bother her.

(09:04):
And she's picked up flat.
So I guess I'm giving her creditfrom picking for picking up
things that I wasn't reallyexpecting.

SPEAKER_05 (09:11):
Actually, I think you also hit on a bigger topic.
Go for it.

SPEAKER_04 (09:14):
If it's irritating enough, we give up?

SPEAKER_05 (09:18):
No.
They'll do it.

SPEAKER_04 (09:19):
Oh.
I was saying if it's irritatingenough for it.

SPEAKER_03 (09:24):
No.

SPEAKER_05 (09:26):
That's the th but okay, so I'll I don't think it
was on your list, but simp,being a simp, right?
Simping, giving every littlething.
God damn it.
I'm the most ignorantmotherfucker in the world.
What is a simp?
Simp, beta.
No, a beta, okay.
Yeah.
Okay, so someone who just like,oh, you're my world, I love you

(09:46):
so much.
There's no irritate in that.
Yeah.
Like it doesn't motivate.
Right.
It m it creates complacency.
That is true.
It's getting into a littledeeper topic, but let's stay
with the the carpet and youswatting her with the newspaper.

SPEAKER_04 (10:01):
There's not really much more to it.

SPEAKER_05 (10:03):
He told us about that, by the way.
Just your head whipped aroundpretty quick on that one.
I'm just kidding.
He did not tell us that.
Okay?
We're playing right now?

SPEAKER_04 (10:14):
I don't even know.

SPEAKER_05 (10:15):
He never actually used a newspaper.

SPEAKER_04 (10:19):
Are you saying I backhanded her or something?

SPEAKER_03 (10:22):
No.
We will ask the questions.

SPEAKER_04 (10:26):
Yeah.
Knock knock.
Who's there?
Are you gonna don't know?
Are you gonna win basket?
No, I will not.

SPEAKER_02 (10:33):
All right, back to the point.
Yep.

SPEAKER_04 (10:35):
Yeah, you're gonna be here.
This is what we do, though.
See, he listens to it, and he'sprobably thinking all the time,
like, Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 (10:41):
You got 75,000 people telling you, hey, topic,
bullet point.

SPEAKER_04 (10:45):
No, you're right, you're right, you're right.
But you know, we we still gottabe our again.

SPEAKER_05 (10:51):
If you give them everything they want, yeah, they
don't listen.
They won't respect you either,right?
So you gotta meander a littlebit.
Yeah, you're meandering, yeah.
So I mean, but feel free to graba newspaper for either one of
us.

SPEAKER_02 (11:04):
I bet there's a guitar.

SPEAKER_05 (11:06):
That would require that I read.

SPEAKER_04 (11:07):
I'm just kidding.
You know we're dumb.
We don't do that.
Yeah, we're men.
We don't read.
We're men.
Um we just read Playboys, weread them for the articles.
Yeah.
For the articles.
Yeah.
You know, particularly.

SPEAKER_01 (11:19):
I never thought these stories were real until it
happened to me.

unknown (11:23):
Go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 (11:24):
But you know, uh kind of to segue it to like
what's funny is that that's evenrepresented in movies.
What, dumb guys?
Well, yeah, for sure.
That's more TV shows andseconds.
Well, it's gonna be like morelike movies as far as the
protecting aspect.
Oh.
Yeah.
You know, all the vengeancemovies, it's like taken.
Liam Neeson's going after himfor that.
And uh one that really stuck outto me is John Q.

(11:44):
Have you guys seen that withDenzel Washington?
Oh, yeah.
Okay, so you remember I have youseen it?

SPEAKER_07 (11:48):
Mm-mm.

SPEAKER_04 (11:49):
So it's when his son has to have this heart operation
and the hospital won't pay forit because the insurance or
insurance issue, yeah.
And uh they won't pay for it.
So, but what does his wife do?
Do something, John.
Do something.
And then he goes and holds theemergency room hostage and all
this shit to get the surgerydone.
To get the surgery done, andthere's a point where he's even

(12:10):
going to give his own heart, butthe problem is he's an adult.
So honestly, I'd really thoughtabout that.
The man wanted out.
He's like, you know what?
Well, I know this heart isn'tgonna do Jack's shit, but I'm
done.

SPEAKER_02 (12:24):
He's gonna sacrifice himself for his son.
Right.
Too.

SPEAKER_05 (12:27):
But he and he was, but it is.

SPEAKER_04 (12:38):
Right.
But I guess what I'm saying withthat is clearly his heart wasn't
going to work.
But he was going to go throughwith it.
You remember because he wastelling James Woods, who was the
doctor, he's like, just go doit.
You have to, and he was likeholding the gunpoint, do it.
But clearly he was like, theheart will not work.
Your heart is not compatible.
So I think it even goes maybedeeper, and I don't know how

(13:00):
much is actually in the subtext,or I like to read into things
that aren't there.

SPEAKER_05 (13:04):
I mean, you hear over and over, we've all seen
Titanic, right?
Yeah.
I mean There was enough room onthe fucking door.
All right.
Oh, that's but poor Jack had tostay in the freezing water.
Fucking died for no reason.

SPEAKER_04 (13:20):
I'd probably die for Kate Winslow.
Nope.
Nope.
That would be a horrible death.
Freezing death in the water.
Yep.
And she said she wouldn't letgo.
And she did.
And she let go.
I mean, he was dead.
Jack should have just dumped herfucking overdone.

SPEAKER_02 (13:36):
Kick her down there like Christmas story, kicking
Ralph in the tooth.

SPEAKER_01 (13:41):
Fuck you.
It's cold.
What the fuck do you mean?

SPEAKER_04 (13:44):
Well, there's a whole thing of like they could
have taken turns.
I don't know.
But that is definitely somethingthat we've been made.
It's made been made fun of foryears.
Yeah.
I think that's one thateverybody can make fun of.
And even I've even heard womenlaugh about that.

SPEAKER_05 (13:58):
But it also alludes to the phrase women and children
first.
Yeah.
I mean, that's where that comesfrom.
That whole idea of if you are aprotector, then you are ready to
give the ultimate sacrifice tofollow through on that promise.
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (14:13):
And and I will say I won't talk too much on this
because she's going to be on theshow.
But my friend Rachel, who youknow very well as well, is going
to be on.
And yeah, you Rachel.
Rachel! Rachel! Um But she's umgonna be on here and talk about
many of those things from afeminine perspective of someone
who's in the army, which she'sgot some really big balls.

(14:35):
Yeah, honestly.
And and uh she uh her hot takesare pretty pretty strong and I
think could rattle some cageseven for for the ladies, which
is not a bad thing.
No, it's not a bad thing.

SPEAKER_05 (14:48):
It's awesome that all of it is all of it is rooted
in her life experience.
Exactly.
It's not it's not some dogmaticprinciple she's been handed.
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (14:59):
And one thing I think her own beliefs.
And one thing I love better, Imean, I think we learn far more
from experiences than educationoften.

SPEAKER_07 (15:06):
For sure.

SPEAKER_04 (15:06):
Um not that education doesn't have its
value, but when you're talkingabout people, um, I mean that's
why I've leaned so heavily intoeveryday people on this podcast
rather than getting theclinicians.
Um not that I'm against that,but I want to lean into what's
your experience.
That's what we're relating to.
Um of course data's importantand all that, but you know, I
think it has its place.

(15:28):
Um but I just you know I I thinkit is interesting how even in in
uh movies, especially, how it'spretty much I I can't really
think of many films where youknow the the female is the one
who protects the family.
I mean, there's definitelyvigilante films like uh where
the woman's a badass and and andand definitely can uh do revenge

(15:51):
and all that stuff, but it's notusually out of protection.

SPEAKER_05 (15:54):
It's no, and usually if it if it's the feminine doing
the revenge, it's this elaborateplan versus physicality.

SPEAKER_04 (16:04):
And uh spontaneity, too.
Huh?
I I think it's out ofspontaneity for the men, too.

SPEAKER_05 (16:10):
Right, it is spontaneous.
Right.
Let's go to your devil versusversus planned out.
Yeah, I agree with that.
Because if you look at um is itGone Girl?
Am I thinking about it?
Gone girl one?
Where is this elaborate plan?
Um Talk about elaborate Well,and then you've got what Simple
Favor?

(16:30):
Yeah, I know that one too.
I mean Have you seen that one?

SPEAKER_02 (16:33):
No, not that one.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (16:34):
It's another one where it's like it's this
elaborate plan to dupe someone,right?
To frame them or, you know, getso it it just I I do agree with
you on the spontaneity piece andthat it is a little more I guess
I feel like it's a little morealtruistic than the the

(16:55):
sacrifice that you see thefeminine make, especially
portrayed in movies.
Um because it does ours is alittle more there is an
immediate need, we meet thatneed.
The other is more like, oh, Iwas wronged.
I'm gonna put a plan togetherand very different.

(17:17):
Um so but to have thatexpectation, I mean I think if
there were equality, right,which feminism says that it it
pushes for.
If there were equality, therewould be equal numbers of women
stepping up to get in the armyor any of the armed forces.

(17:38):
And and that's a nice setup foryour friend when she comes in.
Oh, she's got a whole datingplan, which is awesome.

SPEAKER_02 (17:44):
I'm looking forward to that.

SPEAKER_05 (17:45):
Yeah, me too.
And it and it also it alludes toone of the things we talked
about earlier, and that's theforce principle of you know, the
the principle I alluded toearlier in a conversation that
was on a different podcast withsome other more I don't know,
are they red pill?
I don't know that they're redpill, they're just more men's,
right?

(18:06):
Because I'm not the whateverpodcast.

SPEAKER_04 (18:09):
Oh, the whatever the whatever podcast name.
Yeah.
I mean, they're probably redpill pretty heavily.

SPEAKER_05 (18:15):
Okay.
I I don't listen enough.

SPEAKER_04 (18:16):
I just see that they think that I would call them
that.

SPEAKER_05 (18:19):
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, but the force principle ofif if there was a need for force
and that person that was usingthe force would end up being
dominant, right?
There's only one way that ends.
Yeah, you're right.
Right.
You're right.
But but that also is the to me,that's the other side of the
coin of self-sacrifice.

(18:39):
Right.
If you're gonna be willing tosacrifice to that level, go to
the verbatim.
There has to be an understandingof your verbatim example.

SPEAKER_07 (18:46):
Hmm?

SPEAKER_04 (18:47):
Do the verbatim example from that.
Yeah, go ahead.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (18:50):
Oh.

SPEAKER_04 (18:50):
Um It's a concept, so throw it out there.

SPEAKER_05 (18:54):
Well, okay, so um I think his name is Andrew,
mentioned something about,because I want to quote people
that actually did it.
This is not my own work.
Um talking about the forceprinciple, saying that if we all
woke up tomorrow and uh mendecided, okay, women are gonna
be slaves, that could happen bythe end of that day.

(19:19):
If women woke up one morning andsaid, Men are gonna be slaves,
do we think women wouldoverpower men to make us slaves?
No.
I I don't.
Um there's really no questionwho has the more brute force,

(19:42):
which is why we're asked tosacrifice.

SPEAKER_04 (19:46):
Right.
And and I I think I mean thething is on that particular one,
I'm okay with that.
Yeah.
No, I'm okay with it too.
But what's interesting is thatthe the other things it comes
with, so you know, you look intothat and the pressures that that
causes and the stress, and andit goes beyond protecting
physically.
It goes on to wanting to be theprovider.
It goes on like monetarily andand take care of the household

(20:08):
as far as like handyman tasksand and the physical labor.
And it's not that some womendon't do that.

SPEAKER_05 (20:14):
No, and women can.
And they can, yeah.
And and I don't give thatexample to say, well, then you
should kneel before me if I haveto.
More about that of us.
It really speaks to what are ourpurposes.
Because I don't I specificallydon't want to say gender roles.
I agree with that.
But what is our gender purpose?
Right.

(20:34):
And if we can truly lean intowhat the purpose of each gender
is, I think we live happier.
I think we definitely live moreharmoniously.
Yeah.
Because it I and if we'retalking about movies, okay, the
token female in every Marvelsuperhero story, why?

(20:56):
I mean, I guess because we wanta female audience.
Or we want some eye candy forboys to look at on the film.
I mean, I'm not saying they needto take it out.
What I'm saying is the wholereason it's there is to give
this illusion of equality atthis point.

SPEAKER_04 (21:15):
And I I will say one thing that frustrates me, and I
I've actually talked to a coupleladies about including my wife,
is that um I want to includeher.
Like I, you know, I but becauseI think she would feel
comfortable, I'd try to vet thatpretty carefully.
But, you know, is that it's likewhen they came up with, you
know, you have Spider-Man, thenthere's Spider Woman, Batman,

(21:35):
Batwoman.
It's like Hulk, she hulk.
It's like, here's the thing isthat they're already established
as male characters.
Right.
Instead of um, you know,creating a subcharacter that is
completely the female version,come up with organic female
characters.
Right.
Hold space for the actualfeminine.

SPEAKER_05 (21:53):
Because, I mean, and what I was chuckling about is
the thought in my head is like,if you want a true female
superhero, and I'm probablygonna get in trouble for this
statement.
But I'm not married, so it'sokay.
I can sleep tonight.

SPEAKER_04 (22:06):
Um I just won't uh acknowledge it.

SPEAKER_05 (22:09):
Her superpower would be talking so much that that
super villain would be like, allright, all right, shut up.
I you know I can't.
I know that was bad.
It was but you know, I was goingfor the joke.
So that was funny.
I went for it.
Um but ultimately Thanks for thesupport over there.

SPEAKER_04 (22:28):
He's a he's a he's a hard laugh.
Oh god.
He's a hard laugh.
Hard left?
He's a hard laugh.

SPEAKER_05 (22:34):
Oh, hard laugh.
Definitely not hard left.

SPEAKER_04 (22:37):
I was gonna say hard left.

SPEAKER_05 (22:38):
We're gonna I wish I could.
No, definitely not left.

SPEAKER_04 (22:40):
That would be stranger in the tub.
What?
Well, if you go lefty, like it'slike there's a stranger.

SPEAKER_02 (22:46):
Where'd the stranger come from?
I didn't put him there.
You put him.
What'd you do, Nick?
No.

SPEAKER_04 (22:54):
More than you.
I don't even know what'shappening.
I don't either.
Am I being gaslit?
I don't know.
Are you don't gaslight thementally ill.
We're already gaslighting ourdamn selves.
Can't happen.
Can't happen.
Men in the room.
There are men.
Men are talking.
That's fine.
So those ladies listening, youshut up and listen to the

(23:15):
podcast.

SPEAKER_05 (23:16):
Right.
Wait, didn't for this episode wehired Carlita to do it.

SPEAKER_04 (23:20):
We did have Carlita, which is Yeah.
Well, really, we named her that.
Her name's not actually Carlita.
It's just, you know, we alwayshave Carl.
Yvonne.
I don't know.
I don't remember her name, butwe just like, hey, you're you're
Carlita now.

SPEAKER_03 (23:33):
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (23:34):
When you leave the studio, now you can be whatever
the hell your actual name is.
But um the whole men are talkingprinciple.
I gotcha.
You know, I joke with Katieabout that a lot.
I actually do.
Well and she finds those jokesfunny.
I excuse me.
I'm talking.
I'm man.
She does find it funny.

unknown (23:51):
Huh.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (23:53):
You can have humor about this shit.
Sure, yeah.
Everybody knows we're kidding.
Um okay, so this is definitelywhere I wanted to go with this
particular topic.
Okay.
So um back to the protectionthing.
Yes.
Why is doing often the put myphone down, right thing, um,
considered weak or or even beta.

(24:15):
So give some examples.
Well, I wanted to use an exampleof our friend.
We have a good friend who Oh, myamigo?

SPEAKER_02 (24:22):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 (24:23):
Who we talked about on the pre my very close amigo.
That's what we should do.
Whoever's talking should raiseup, and the other two should
work.
Go ahead.
But this is a really powerfulstory, and I think this is worth
exploring.

SPEAKER_02 (24:38):
Uh, yeah.
Go on.
Yeah.
So my very special amigo had anincident with um his ex-wife's
affair partner.
And uh this particular person uhput his hands on my friend's
son, threw him up against awall, left bruises all of his

(25:00):
arms, and uh so my friend foundout about this and contacted his
ex-wife.
She came over, had the childexplain to his mother exactly
what happened down there duringthat vacation, and uh she was

(25:22):
very upset, rightfully so.
Yeah.
Um I told my friend that sheshould have packed her shit and
left that night if he's willingto put hands on a child.

SPEAKER_04 (25:33):
Period.

SPEAKER_02 (25:33):
Period.
Like no questions asked.

SPEAKER_04 (25:36):
Oh, it was a moment of weakness.

SPEAKER_02 (25:38):
Yeah, it was a moment of weakness, and you
don't know what you're gonna doin those situations until you're
actually in it.
He said he'll never do it again.
I could tell you or I'm gone.
For me, it'd be a one and donething.
Yeah, I I no no second chances.

SPEAKER_04 (25:56):
Yeah, not on that.

SPEAKER_02 (25:56):
Like you're fucking gone.

SPEAKER_04 (25:57):
Not on that.

SPEAKER_02 (25:58):
It's not your place, it's not your child.
Right.
You're some empty-headed dumbfuck that couldn't stay loyal to
his wife and his own fuckingchildren.

SPEAKER_03 (26:07):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (26:07):
Then you take out anger on a five-year-old.

SPEAKER_03 (26:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (26:11):
Go to hell.
Um so my amigo contacted thataffair partner and uh told him,
hey, this is what's gonnahappen.
You are going to come over hereand apologize to my son.
I don't even know it's 10o'clock at night, I don't give a

(26:32):
shit.
You're coming over here toapologize to my son, and in
turn, you're gonna apologize tome.
And then he wouldn't sayanything.
Yes, no, maybe, kiss my ass, goto hell.
Can I get a response, please?
Yeah.
Uh do I have to do this rightnow?
Is this negotiable?

SPEAKER_04 (26:50):
Talk about alpha beta.

SPEAKER_02 (26:52):
No, no, it's not negotiable.
And so if you can go out of yourway to put your hands on that
child, you can go out of yourway to apologize to that child.
I don't give a shit if he's agood idea.
And your friend too.

SPEAKER_04 (27:04):
He wanted he wanted to be apologized too.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (27:07):
But so yeah.
So, you know, he was likebeating around a bush, didn't
want to do it.
I guess you don't give me otheroptions.
No, you don't have an option,motherfucker.
You're gonna do it.
So he did come over, heapologized.
But my friend said he struggledbecause when the dude showed up,
he wanted to rip his fuckingthroat out for putting hands on

(27:29):
his son.
But what's that gonna do for thechild?
What's that gonna do for him?
Police will get called, he'llget arrested.
What's that gonna look like tohis son?
Seeing his dad in handcuffs.
So they shook hands, the guyapologized, my amigo pulled him
in, said you're not gonna fuckwith my son.
Do we have an understanding?

(27:50):
Yeah, we got an understanding,and he left.
Right.
But the thing is, like my friendstruggles because he he feels
like a bitch that he didn't riphis fucking throat out.
Right.
Like he wanted to kick his assright then and there, leave him.
Yeah.
Graveyard dead.
Yeah.
But no, he let the he told theguy he forgave him, shook his

(28:15):
hand, but did give him thatwarning.

unknown (28:17):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (28:17):
Like, don't fuck with my son.
Right, right.
But it's like, why do we havethat perception that that's
weakness?
Yes.

SPEAKER_04 (28:24):
Well, actually that's strength, because I can
tell you if I was in thatsituation, I wouldn't have the
strength to do that.
I I can't tell you how much.

SPEAKER_02 (28:32):
Like, why have we in a society if you you get so if
you if someone deserves to bepunched in the fucking face,
like, you go to jail for thatshit.

SPEAKER_03 (28:41):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (28:42):
It's like, why?
Like, if someone deserves to getpunched in the fucking mouth,
and then you can move on.
Right.
Like, be done with it.
But no, then you'll getarrested, you have court
hearings, you got attorney.

SPEAKER_04 (28:53):
You're right.
And and you know, you're talkingabout a child here, and
especially.
You know, yeah, especially.
And the fact is, like I said, Ican't I told your friend myself,
I cannot tell you how much Irespect him for being able to do
that, because I would not havethe strength, by the way, the
strength to do that.
And the fact is, I guaranteeyou, other men he talked to

(29:17):
probably told him, Oh, you needto beat the shit out of that
guy.
I gotta imagine that happened.

SPEAKER_02 (29:22):
No, he heard that.
Yeah, there's no way he didn'tfrom other men.
Well, he heard no, fuck that.
Don't shake his hand, don't doall that.
Like call the you know, call thepolice or beat his ass.
Right.
But it's like I had to do rightby my son.
He needed to see that.
You know, his father.

SPEAKER_04 (29:38):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (29:38):
Um he needed to see his father be able to hold his
ground and do what's right infront of him.
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (29:46):
And he did.
And he did.

SPEAKER_02 (29:48):
Rage monster, because my friend, how he used
to been, maybe ten years ago, ohyeah.
Probably would have left himdead.

SPEAKER_04 (29:54):
Well, see, and the thing is I'm I'm kind of there
now.
I mean, and by the way, ithere's you want to chime in?
We've been talking a lot.

SPEAKER_05 (30:03):
No, no, I was just kind of staying out of the way
of the story, but um to kind ofbring some concepts together and
really hopefully open adialogue, if not actual
dialogue, um in other men's andwomen's minds.
So it's the presumptive you willsacrifice for the family.

(30:25):
Yeah, the other side of thatcoin is you are the strength,
you will do this, and thenyou're asked to restrain that
strength to that that degreethat we're talking about right
now, to have the discipline toknow you could, regardless of

(30:46):
your actual physical physicalstrength, you could kill a man.

SPEAKER_03 (30:52):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (30:52):
Right?

SPEAKER_03 (30:53):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (30:53):
So when you get to that point to have that kind of
discipline, I ask you, ladies,is that not safety?
Is that not exactly what you'relooking for?
So you cannot toxify the thingsthat are presumptive about men
and then say, oh, we want safetyin our relationships.

(31:14):
If you ask us to go to theopposite ends of that particular
spectrum, right on some level,you have to acquiesce and give
to us that that is safe.
Right.
That is true.
You can't have it both.
That was the the concept thatwas coming together as as he's
telling this to me, uh, tellingus this story is I really think

(31:38):
that's what the feminine hasasked of us.

SPEAKER_04 (31:42):
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (31:43):
But then specific actions taken out of context
then get turned into toxicity.
Right.
That's the problem.
Um and you know, it goes bothways.
If you're too much indoctrinatedinto that force doctrine, right?
Right.
I'm bigger, I can take it if Iwant it, that's toxic, right?

(32:04):
We we can all agree that thatcan be toxic.
Yeah.
Okay.
On the other end of it, if youare too passive and sacrifice
too much, you're takingadvantage of that.
That's toxic the other way.
Yeah, it is.
You're allowing the toxicity toseep in.
So finding that middle ground,finding that discipline to
balance that is safety.

SPEAKER_04 (32:27):
Well, and and let me uh there's a couple things I
want to touch on with that thatthat inspired me from that.
So one thing is um, you know, Iobserve some relationships of
people in my life, and it whatirritates the ever-living shit
out of me is, and this is youknow, male-female, mother-father
relationships, is there's acertain amount of control in

(32:49):
that the woman has over the manthat is uncomfortable to me.
Um and it's not it's not aboutcompromise, because I fully
believe compromise is a hundredpercent important, period.
However, it's like everythinggoes back to, you know, the
man's like, I want to do this.
Well, let me make a hundredpercent sure it's okay with with
the wife.

(33:09):
And and and it's the dynamic istoo much.
It's too it's like beingcompletely subservient to your
wife, and and I even know in acouple relationships that I
won't name them, but where it'slike, um, I only do that to keep
the peace in the household.

SPEAKER_02 (33:25):
Oh, yeah.
I I have friends like that.

SPEAKER_04 (33:27):
I cannot stand that shit.
But that's that is the malehanding over his masculinity.
Right, but to do it to thatlevel, I can tell you Katie and
I do not have that dynamic.
My dad and his and mom do nothave that dynamic.

SPEAKER_05 (33:41):
Well, and I but there's a balance.
I think I think the balance isis that you check in with all
parties concerned, right?
Right.
And then from there you make aneducated decision about how to
lead.

SPEAKER_04 (33:54):
Right.
There's a negotiation that goeswith that.
But what I'm telling you is inthese relationships I see it's
like if if the the femalepartner is is against it on any
level, the man's like, okay, youknow what?
I'm not going to.
It's just complete, complete umwhat is it called?
Submissiveness to that.

(34:16):
And that is annoying as hell tome because to me, I okay, and
maybe it's because I am a manand I take very much pride in
and it's not about I need todominate Katie over it.
It's not anything to do withthat.
But she respects me and likewiseher enough that with like, okay,
well, I I wouldn't mind youhome, but like I know you want
to do that.
So but then again, if she'slike, I really need you home

(34:38):
tonight, it's like, okay, thenI'll be there.
There's compromise there insteadof every goddamn time, it's oh
no, I uh you're not doing that.
I I need this, I need this, Ineed this.
You're referencing it.

SPEAKER_05 (34:49):
And I see so you're referencing happy wife, happy
life.

SPEAKER_04 (34:53):
Yes.
Fuck that.
And by the way, Katie does notascribe to that.
I'll give her 100% credit forthat.
And I can't name manyrelationships that don't have
that dynamic.
And honestly, it drives me up awall because I see the man's um
passions and I see his interestsjust gone.

(35:14):
He's not able to explore any ofthem because of that.
Yeah.
And he becomes it becomes hisidentity, gets absorbed into
that.

SPEAKER_02 (35:21):
Yeah, because my friend and his wife, I mean,
they have the same dynamic asyou and you and Katie.

SPEAKER_04 (35:26):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (35:26):
Like they have that fair compromise, and he he's not
completely submissive.
Like has to get be grantedpermission to do anything.

SPEAKER_04 (35:34):
That's it.
That's exactly it.
Like granted the permission.
It's like I'm not I I want tosay again, it's not about like,
fuck you, Katie, I'm gonna dowhat I want.
But it's also in herperspective, he's not she's not
like, fuck you, Nick, you'regonna do what I want.

SPEAKER_01 (35:48):
Yep.

SPEAKER_04 (35:49):
Because there is a beautiful because she knows what
I need.
I'm a very social person.
I crave social interaction.
She understands that.
So but there are times thatshe'll say, I really need you
home right now.
And it's like, okay, well, I'llcancel a plan.
I mean, I've canceled podcastnights because of that.
Yep.
Um I don't have a problem withthat.
There can be a balance.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
No, and there has to be for thatto stay in place.

(36:12):
Right.
And but then again, even inthose situations, because in
those relationships I mentioned,that man is still the main
provider monetarily.
And honestly, in a couple ofthem, is the main provide is the
main caretaker of the children,too, many of the time.
Yeah.
And is expected to be theprotector.

(36:32):
It's like all those things, yetyou're controlling everything
that guy does.
And he lets it happen.
Nope.
That's the fucking problem.

SPEAKER_02 (36:40):
Well, I mean, my buddy went through that same
thing.
He's a never again problem.

SPEAKER_04 (36:45):
That's shit.
Nope.
I mean, you have to speak up.
You have to and it's again, it'snot about gender dominance.
It's about compromise, andthat's that to me is is um not
serenity, but well maybe.
But it it's it's um is symbioticthe right word where you you
both work together.
I mean, where it's jumped.

SPEAKER_05 (37:04):
It's not gender roles, it's gender gender
purpose, gender.
Or just skills, human quality,human respect.
Right.
And seeing that one needs theother.
Right.
It and each other needs otherthings.
Yeah.
I mean, probably uh you werearound for some of my first

(37:27):
marriage.
Sure.
Yeah.
And that was me.
I I put her through school soshe would have a degree and go
do what she was gonna do.
And the plan was that she wasthen going to support me so that
I could pursue your job on myYeah.
And you know, to the level I gotto, even being discouraged as

(37:50):
much as I was, and I know youhave a shit ton of resentment
about that.
I do.
And she was wrong.
She was absolutely wrong.
She was the downfall of therelationship.
Did I do my thing in it?
Yes.
But I also tried for so long togive everything I could to keep
that relationship.
Yeah, you did.
Once she took what she took, shewould not give it back.

(38:13):
She would not live in an equalhouse.
Right.
So, yeah, I mean it's it it itcannot go the other way.
Right.
It does not work because as youwere talking about, you consult,
you both sit down, you talk itthrough, you come to a
consensus, and then ultimatelythe final decision is yours.

(38:34):
Yeah.
Right.
Fair enough.
Yeah.
But that is made out of respectand love.
But it's based in fact, it'sbased in need, it's based in all
these factual, real, tangiblethings.
Right.
Not situational emotion.
Right.
And that's the trouble you getinto.
Yeah.
Because you have probably givenyour word, and my guess is you

(38:57):
followed through to the letterof it.

unknown (38:59):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (38:59):
Because I know that's what I did.

SPEAKER_07 (39:01):
Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_05 (39:02):
Just to put kind of the the example of why when
emotion gets into making thoseleadership kinds of decisions,
you know, and I didn't find thisout until we went through
divorce, and we did amicable.
Yeah, you're good friends now.
We you know, it's like I didn'thate her, she didn't necessarily
hate me, but it all comes outwhen you get to the end, and

(39:23):
what I found out was herretirement was eight times what
my retirement was.
And we had been together almost20 years.
Yeah.
And it was supposed to be thatshe was putting in equal amounts
to each other.
Oh, I didn't know about that.
That was all part of it.
It was like, look, I invested inyour education so that you could

(39:45):
become a breadwinner for alittle while, and then I could
pursue what I needed to pursue.
Which, by the way, comes withits own ego hit for us.

SPEAKER_04 (39:53):
What do you mean?
We're not the breadwinners.
Oh, yeah.
No, it was not easy.
And I'll tell you what, I haveto say a dynamic I've had with
Katie for forever is our moneyis our money.
I don't care if I makeconsiderably more or
considerably less.
Our money has always been ourmoney.
We have the same bank account.
And I'm not saying that thatnecessarily has to be the case,
but one thing I I do love aboutour dynamic is that you know,

(40:15):
right now she's working, I'm notbecause I'm trying to get on
disability.
Right.
But she never holds over me.
There's never any exactly.

SPEAKER_05 (40:23):
And you know I was still working about 40 hours.
That's what I was saying.
That's what I was getting to.
Playing five, six nights a week,teaching four or five days a
week.
Yeah.
Like I literally had twelve hourdays two, three times a week.
That's what I'm saying.
So I was still working, but Iwasn't making what a nurse made.

SPEAKER_04 (40:40):
No.
Now, would you say she shedevalued that because it was.
And that's a dynamic again thatis bullshit.

SPEAKER_05 (40:48):
Because even though I was working, you know, I mean,
I was probably I mean, at thetime, we're talking what, 30,
40, 30-ish years ago, 40 yearsago.
I mean uh when I stopped beingthe main breadwinner and just,
you know, worked my little jobso I could do my dream, you

(41:11):
know, I'm still pulling inprobably about half what she
did, but she would still, inarguments, say, but you don't
make any money.
Yeah, yeah.
And it it the devaluing in thatis sinister.
It is, it is.
And understand that that comesfrom emotion.
Oh, yeah.
If you and I are having thatconversation, it's okay, you

(41:35):
make half what I make.
Right.
Because that's factual.
Right.
Emotionally, I didn't make anymoney compared to her.
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (41:42):
And and I will say I don't think that dynamic, I I do
want to say I don't think thatdynamic is isolated to the woman
doing that to the man.
I I know two relationships in inpersonally, very two people very
close to me in relationshipswhere the man constantly throws
that at the woman.

SPEAKER_05 (41:58):
And he's an asshole.

SPEAKER_04 (41:59):
And he is, he's a complete dick about it.
I would say I don't know him.

SPEAKER_05 (42:02):
I'm saying he's an asshole for sure.

SPEAKER_04 (42:04):
Oh, I know that.
I know that.
He is, and it drives me up awall.
You probably know who I'mtalking about, one of them.
Um so it drives me up a wall.
And it's not right because theyget hateful about it.
It's hateful.
Well, and I'm sure yoursprobably got that weight too.
Oh, yeah.
But I guess the reason I wantedto add that tip is I want to
make sure that's not consideredum gender specific, but also

(42:28):
there there is a weight to menon that because I think it's
probably safe to say we put adifferent pressure on being the
main breadwinner.
For sure.
Um I can say when I when I wasraised, you know, growing up, I
it wasn't like it was forceddown my throat incredibly, but
like I it I saw it.
It was exemplified in my lifethat the man was usually the

(42:50):
examples were everywhere.
And and it's not like my daddidn't encourage me, you know.
Sure.
And of course, when things wentdownhill with my mental health
and everything, I think it wasunderstood that I was not gonna
be.
Well, that's not true.
He never pushed it on me oncethat happened.
Actually, I pushed myself.

SPEAKER_05 (43:03):
Right.
Well, you I was gonna say,because I know you have been
that.
I know you've worked the 60-hourweek job.

SPEAKER_04 (43:09):
Oh, I gotta I mean the last job I had was 60, 70
hours.

SPEAKER_05 (43:12):
I know you've thrown yourself into being that
breadwinner.

SPEAKER_04 (43:15):
Yeah, and I mean it's like when I did the job at
you, I'll name it now at Schoolof Rock when I was the GM there.
And every no, I'll name it now.
And and everything went downhillfor I don't even go into
reasons, but you guys know them.
Um discrimination and andfucking tax manipulation, all
that shit.
Um the thing is with that, Itook that job making sixty-five

(43:37):
thousand a year to raise athree-member family with a
house, mortgage, car payment,all of it.
Give me a break that that wasgonna be realistic.
My goal was to make sure Katiedid not have to work.
She did not put that on me, bythe way.
No, that was never imposed onme.
That was completely self-imposedbecause I wanted her to be a

(43:59):
stay-at-home mom.

SPEAKER_07 (44:00):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (44:00):
And by the way, I negated the fact that Katie
actually kind of wanted to workhard-time.
I didn't give a shit that that'swhat she wanted, and that's on
me.
I was like, no, I knew youwanted to be a mother more than
anything.
I want to make sure you haveevery second with that child
that you want.

unknown (44:15):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (44:16):
I did.
And honestly, I know she takes alot of pride in having that
time.
Well, but it's not like shedoesn't want her own freedom
either.
But I didn't look at it thatway.
I was so focused on no, I am theprovider.
I don't care.
But let's be real, 65 grand ayear, good luck.
I mean, it's not like youcouldn't make it work, but what

(44:36):
your standard of living would beshit.
You're you would have to be verydisciplined to make that work.
And I I didn't want thatlifestyle anyway, but I just I
was so wrapped up in being theprovider above all.
Oh, yeah.
I wasn't even looking at thefinances of it.
You know what I mean?
But what I will say is I know ina lot of relationships that is
placed on the man.
I mean, it's just that'sexpected.

(44:58):
It is I again, uh you canprobably tell we have a very
healthy relationship.

SPEAKER_05 (45:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (45:03):
But that was never placed on me.

SPEAKER_05 (45:04):
The the interesting thing though, that I have heard
in other conversations aboutthis very same thing, the
pushback is always, oh, well,but I can make the money, I can
be the provider, but then youget in a relationship with that
person, and they're gonna be,oh, well, our money is our
money, but my money is my money.
Right.
Because I earned that.
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (45:22):
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (45:23):
Yes, you did.
But what if it were reversed?
Yeah.
And I made that money, but Itold you our money is our money
and my money is my money, thenI'm toxic.
So that I I think that reallyjust drawing attention to the
idea that a lot of these thingsthat we as men accept get turned

(45:43):
around on the opposite side.
Yeah, they can't.
And it really has bred kind ofthe condition of relationships
these days.
Yeah.
That masculinity got turnedagainst itself, and then what
came to fill that void when weall drew back was equally as

(46:04):
toxic and maybe more harmful incertain ways.
Because if you do look atdivorce rates, you look at
suicide rates, you look at howmany people are on
antidepressants, whatevergender, yeah, whatever gender is
small.

SPEAKER_04 (46:20):
Yeah.
And I mean, as you know, themale s the male suicide rate
continues to go upexponentially.
Absolutely.
Women too.

SPEAKER_05 (46:26):
But the male is absolutely but I think men are
outpacing women at it.

SPEAKER_04 (46:31):
We're definitely men's isgrowing uh vast.

SPEAKER_05 (46:35):
Way faster.

SPEAKER_04 (46:36):
And I can tell you the and that again, it's
pressures I put on myself, butit's societal expectations where
I even am thinking, what is myworth?
And I you guys know in PathwaySuicidal and all that.
So that's even aside from that,it's like that's a huge
contributor to that.

SPEAKER_05 (46:52):
We love you, don't go.
Don't go in, don't go into thelight.

SPEAKER_04 (46:57):
Aim for the bushes.
Aim for the bushes.

SPEAKER_02 (47:00):
My motto is aim for the bushes.

SPEAKER_04 (47:02):
That was fun.
Uh that was classic.
Um, but it that is that'sinteresting.
And and I don't I don't know ifI have anything else to add to
that particular thing.

SPEAKER_02 (47:16):
You can lead into the next unless you do.
You know how men, the suiciderate is going up.
We're also I don't know what itis, but in our society, men it's
like not okay for men to talkabout their feelings.
They just suppress that shit.

SPEAKER_04 (47:34):
Yes, and I know where you're going with this.

SPEAKER_02 (47:35):
And then once they just get to that point, they're
gone.

SPEAKER_04 (47:39):
Yeah.
They're just gone.
No, we we bottle it up, and andI will say that how many how
many uh kind of kind of gocircles back to go ahead, yeah.
That's where I was trying toget.

SPEAKER_02 (47:49):
Yeah, it circles back to men perceived as
pussies.
Yeah.
And it just tell you to man up,get over it, yeah, move on.

SPEAKER_04 (47:59):
Well, it's like weren't you telling me that
people told your friend in thatsituation?
What were they telling him?
Like, oh, get over it or someshit?

SPEAKER_02 (48:07):
Like, just move on.

SPEAKER_04 (48:10):
It's not that simple.
Just move on, who cares?
The psychological scarring andprobably, in many ways,
permanent damage that we'll, youknow, alleviate over the years,
but that is probably permanent.

SPEAKER_02 (48:24):
Move on, get over it, you dodge the bullet.
Yeah, I mean all the cliches ofall that.

unknown (48:29):
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (48:30):
I I mean But that's men doing that to men.

SPEAKER_05 (48:32):
It is men doing that to men, but I think it's also
part of that cautionary pieceof, yeah, but when you do open
up, it's used against you.
Right.
So there's, you know, I mean, Idon't know that you want to call
it wisdom in it, but theexpectation of, you know,
self-sacrifice for protection ofyour family.

(48:56):
Right.
There is that same quiet umagreement that if something
massive happens to us that takesus to the edge of breaking, that
we get help with that, we gettherapy, right?
But we're not supposed to eventalk about that.

(49:17):
The process itself has to happenin the shadows.
Yeah, absolutely.
I don't want to know that you'reweak because if I know that
you're weak, and it's truth, ifshe knows that you've had a
struggle, it will affect the wayshe looks at you.
Yeah.
I mean, I've had conversationswith women I've dated.
And and, you know, obviously ifI'm still dating, we've had some

(49:41):
relationship issues, right?
Um just inherent in trying tofix some of those problems.
When part of the problem isthere's something that's
upsetting you in a relationship,first off, it gets turned into,
well, you're criticizing me.
No, I'm not.
I'm trying to tell you what I'mexperiencing.

(50:01):
Yeah.
What is hurting me, right?
Yeah.
So it goes one of two ways.
You either are criticizing herby talking about your feelings,
or you talk about your feelings,and then you're weak in her
eyes.
Yeah.
And that weakness can then beused against you.
So it's, you know, there's nosolution in anything I'm saying.

(50:23):
I'm just saying with balancinghow it is.
When it is that way, you youhave to be aware of it.

SPEAKER_03 (50:30):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (50:31):
You know, if if you are having struggles, please get
help with it.
But unfortunately, I don't knowthat our society is yet at a
point where we're open enough totalk about.

SPEAKER_04 (50:42):
But you know what I have to lead into with that.
Please it was uh was it onTikTok you sent me this post of
this older guy saying that men'sawareness month has been around
since oh yeah, 2003 or six?
I've never heard of men'sawareness month.
Twenty-two years.
Men's mental health or whatever.
Men's mental health month.

SPEAKER_05 (51:01):
Never heard of that in my mind.
Yep.
And this is the first year I'veheard of it.

SPEAKER_02 (51:05):
I've never heard of it say it's either this year or
last year is when I first heard.

SPEAKER_05 (51:08):
I've never heard of that.

SPEAKER_02 (51:09):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (51:10):
June was an interesting month for me.
The realization of that.
And then also, okay, does thealphabet community realize that
they chose one of the sevendeadly sins to have a parade
about?
Pride?
I mean, do we really want toname it pride?

(51:32):
Maybe, maybe rethink that guy'sjust rebranding.
You know, keep the rainbow.
That's great.
And I don't have a problem withany of the letters either.
It's just the whole rainbowmonth.
Do you guys really want like aseven deadly sin month?
That was pretty funny.
Did you come in with that onyour own?
Yeah, literally, that's whatJune was for me was realizing
that and oh shit, men's mentalwealth, you know.

SPEAKER_04 (51:53):
You know what's funny because I did a post God
months ago at this point where Iwas like, yeah, there's there's
gay pride month.
Where's mental health pridemonth?
There's mental health awarenessmonth.
And then it lands on your shit.
Now that doubles down on how badmental health, you know, it's
like pair it with the PrideMonth.
Well, yeah.
Um that's funny.
A bunch of downloadmotherfuckers.

(52:15):
I like that.

SPEAKER_05 (52:16):
That was that's pretty clever.
That's pretty clever.
Um I mean, for that fact, wecould call December sloth month
or um gluttony month.

unknown (52:24):
Right?

SPEAKER_05 (52:25):
Yeah.
For all the holidays.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (52:27):
Thanksgiving should be just gluttony.
25th to the 20th.
Glutton giving.

SPEAKER_01 (52:30):
Yeah, you're just gluttony.

SPEAKER_04 (52:31):
Yeah, gluttony.
I mean, we we know Thanksgivingthe way it's described is not
how it went down.
So no.

SPEAKER_05 (52:37):
Let's rebrand.
I mean, unless the Cowboys andwell, they're not Redskins
anymore, are playing onThanksgiving.
That was the only thing.

SPEAKER_02 (52:44):
Did they change that?

SPEAKER_05 (52:44):
Yeah, they did change the commanders.

SPEAKER_02 (52:47):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (52:47):
Do they still have the same logo?
I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 (52:49):
I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 (52:50):
That's some racist shit you serve back off of that.

SPEAKER_02 (52:53):
It's just a W now.
Washington Commanders.
Just a W on their page.

SPEAKER_05 (52:57):
Well, the funny part is it's more of an L than a W.

SPEAKER_02 (52:59):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (53:00):
Anyway, that's funny.
Um Okay, so I I do want to getinto I mean, I almost forgot it.
Hang on.
Oh, okay.
So um with these extra pressuresand that are placed on us, and
even though we place onourselves, we'll we'll add that
in there too.

SPEAKER_07 (53:16):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (53:16):
Um expect yeah, all that.
Um that that are probably uniqueto most men.
Um here's the thing.
I mean, we turn, I think, todifferent forms of
self-medication.
So, I mean, as you and I talkedin the past, you know, in the
50s, what did the men do?
Come home and and drink, and andthat was better have that drink
ready.
Uh-huh.
I mean, that was it.
You know, they'd work hard andcome home.

(53:37):
And back then, of course, I Ithink the woman pretty much was
majority of the time a stay athome.
Right.
Right.
And she had her own medication.

SPEAKER_05 (53:47):
She'd take a volume.
Yeah.
Volume and volume in your uhcocktail when you get home.

SPEAKER_04 (53:52):
But I guess what I'm saying is how much how much is
that in the in the in the in thewhole uh stereotype of that era?
It's like men come home and theydrink and then you know the wife
just the kids.

SPEAKER_02 (54:03):
I sometimes grow up seeing that firsthand.

SPEAKER_04 (54:06):
Did you?
Not I mean not to that extreme,but yeah, you s yeah, I mean, I
mean, I admittedly I I never Ididn't have that.
I mean, did you?

SPEAKER_05 (54:15):
No.
My parents had a group of parentfriends, and they all went out
and partied on the weekend, sothat was fun to remember.
Oh, I guess my parents wereborn.
But during the week I veryrarely saw until they had the
friend group, and then LongIsland iced teas were a part of
you know family life.

SPEAKER_02 (54:31):
Me, I just grew up, you know, my mom, stay-at-home
mom, a stepdad worked, and I wasjust you know, expected of her
to have dinner ready by the timehe got home.

SPEAKER_03 (54:40):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (54:40):
If not.

SPEAKER_03 (54:42):
Not good things.

SPEAKER_02 (54:44):
Yeah, I gotcha.
Uh so yeah, I always grew up.
Seeing that.

SPEAKER_04 (54:48):
That's interesting, yeah.
Um but like it goes beyond justdrinking.
I mean, uh I'll go ahead andthrow this out there, and I
wrote it down.
It's like we um it's like when Ihit extreme anger anger stages,
I got that Bob punching bag.
I go whale on that son of abitch a lot.
You're talking aboutmasturbating, aren't you?
I do call him Bob too.

(55:09):
But I was more referring to myBob.
No, I'm kidding.
No, but like seriously, I mean II don't think Katie, when she
gets mad, goes down there andbeats the shit out of.
I hope she does.
That would be so funny.
That would be awesome.
I would love to see that.
I would too.
She'd probably be meaner to thatthing than I would, man.
Hell hath no fury, like aKatie's score.

SPEAKER_05 (55:27):
Mother dresses you funny.

SPEAKER_02 (55:28):
Oh no, I bet she can pack like a powerful actor.

SPEAKER_04 (55:32):
She is strong.
She is, she's tough.
She's tough.
I can still take her though.
Um you know what one thing thatshe finds one of the most
attractive things about me is myfunctional strength.
Like she really she was fine atsexy.
Oh, yeah.
Which I guess plays in a littlebit too much.

SPEAKER_05 (55:48):
Being able to overpower is not frowned upon.
Okay.
Which I think is interestingwhen you look at what gets used
against us.

SPEAKER_04 (55:57):
Fair enough.
Uh yeah, and we'll get we'llreally get to that.
Um, here's another thing that umI I debated if I wanted to talk
about this or not, and and youguys I don't know how much depth
you want to go into, but I wouldinclude pornography in that.
Uh-uh.
Now we're talking aboutmasturbation.
Yes.
Okay.
Sorry, I I jumped the gun.
Then I jumped then Bob jumpedthe gun.

(56:18):
But like, you know, uh uh.

SPEAKER_02 (56:20):
So you use Bob for other things?

SPEAKER_04 (56:23):
Oh, I got a I got a strap on.
Well, no, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02 (56:27):
When he pisses me off and beat the shit out of him
when I want to fuck him.
I got no.

SPEAKER_04 (56:34):
And I just do one of those.
Doing the back of the thing.

SPEAKER_05 (56:37):
Little twerking towards Bob.
Go.

SPEAKER_04 (56:40):
Got one of those big black straps on them.
There you go.
But but seriously, I mean thatthat is another thing that okay,
that's the one of all of them Iwould I've leaned into.
Porn.
Sure.
And there's different there'sbeen there's a lot of reasons
for that.
It's not just anything that youmight be obvious.

SPEAKER_05 (56:57):
Um I we're just talking about the medicating
aspect, correct?

SPEAKER_04 (57:03):
Yeah, I mean, I can definitely take it anywhere, but
that's kind of what I'm gettingto.

SPEAKER_05 (57:07):
I mean, I think that there are I'm there okay.
I I think that there are notnecessarily sinister uses of
that, and even self-medicationto a cer certain point.
I mean, I think used healthy ina relationship, it can be great.
Yeah.
Um but when we're talking aboutsolo use, self-medication, I

(57:27):
think that that can turnsinister in that there are some,
oh, I don't know, maybeunrealistic aspects to certain
you know.
But again, I think that is okayso long as we understand.
There's an understanding of it.
Because otherwise, how do youlive out some fantasies?

(57:50):
Because some fantasies you youcan't.
No.
That you know but and that's nota gender thing.
There are plenty of not malegenders that have their own
fantasies that could lead totheir own demise, even.
Sure.
Sure.
Well, we talked about that.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (58:08):
But I guess it it is more about about the
self-indication and the bendingside of it because it goes
beyond just uh sexualgratification or even fantasy.
It is a way of vending too, andself-edication.
I mean, it there is a there's acatharsis with that that is
different.

SPEAKER_05 (58:23):
You know, you you you bleed off a little of your
qi and you can sleep a littlebetter at night on those nights
where you can't get your head toturn off.
Absolutely.
I tell you it is all part ofthat.

SPEAKER_04 (58:34):
Um different situations, it it's i it uh it
doesn't come along as much.

SPEAKER_05 (58:39):
But I think that there ends up being a more
healthy use of said fantasies orm self-medicating if if there's
a healthy relationship that'spart of it.

SPEAKER_04 (58:51):
Right.
I guess what I'm saying here isthat is the that it can be used
unhealthily, and I've certainlyI've certainly done that.

SPEAKER_05 (58:57):
And um are you are you subtexting that it is when
you're pushed that direction bya gender?
Probably.
Is that part of thatconversation?

SPEAKER_03 (59:09):
Yeah, that's exactly with it.

SPEAKER_05 (59:11):
Okay.
Well, and I mean it's the samething as you know, the other
side of it.
Um what do they call it?
Um retail therapy.
Retail therapy?
She takes your credit card, goesshopping.
So much better.
Like that's bleeding off.
Yeah.
That's bleeding off of emotionfor because I've I've seen

(59:33):
several actually go do that, andthen there's remorse or
consequence.
Um we all know about thataccountability piece, but I have
seen them have to return a fairlevel of those things because it
harmed them, you know.
You're talking like financially,right?
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(59:53):
Yeah.
No, I didn't beat anyone, Ipromise.
Oh, good, okay, okay.
That's clarification for ourlisteners.
I mean it was open-handed, comeon.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:01):
Okay, well, okay, great segue.
You're welcome.
I'm serious, great segue here.

SPEAKER_05 (01:00:06):
That's why we're here.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:07):
So, like, you know, we talked about the physical the
physical superiority been half.
We I think that's a fact.
And I don't hear many womendenying that.
That fact.

SPEAKER_05 (01:00:18):
They'll argue the point, but I don't think any one
of them can deny it in fact.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:21):
Right.
So g fair.
But what I was going to say is,okay, so in situations where a
woman is beating a man, thatwhat will that, you know, their
consequences for beating us arefar different than if we do that
to them.
Okay.
And go ahead if you want tocomment here.
Seriously.

SPEAKER_05 (01:00:40):
We're talking about physical violence, right?
Yeah, that's where I'm going tobe.
If if a woman is physicallyattacking a man, okay.
If if I'll put it this way.
This is going to be upsetting tosome people.
But this is this is what I havethought in the past.
If you need me to be yourpunching bag and then have the

(01:01:02):
del the discipline to not hityou back, right?
Because that's the naturalconsequence.
If you hit me, I hit you back.
And then, you know, we eitherdecide we're going to continue
that or we have a conversationand we work it out, right?
Right, right.
If you need me to be a punchingbag and then have the discipline

(01:01:24):
to not hit you back, then youhave to accept that you're gonna
get hit back.
No.
Oh you have to accept that youdon't have the emotional
maturity to control your emotionto not hit me.
You do not have that level ofdiscipline.
You do not have the monster youcan control.

(01:01:45):
You just have the monster.
So the safety that you're askingfor from me, right?
You're gonna hit me and I amgoing to have the discipline,
then I need you to understandwhy I'm going to lead and make
decisions because I can't trustyour emotion.
That has to be a fair trade.

SPEAKER_07 (01:02:05):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (01:02:05):
And if you're not willing to do that, I'm gonna
hit you back.

SPEAKER_04 (01:02:09):
Well, and I'll I'll say, um I I myself really feel
like if I was attacked by anywoman, I wouldn't hit her back.
Fully don't think I would.
I said the same thing.

SPEAKER_05 (01:02:20):
Did that happen to you?
Yeah.
Did you I I yeah, I was gettinghammered.
Okay, I actually knew the story.
I just didn't know if you wantedto share it.
No, I know.
And if she remembers it, she gota fist to the stomach.
Yeah, it was and it backed heroff because she couldn't
breathe.
Yeah.
But it took one, didn't it?
Yeah.

(01:02:41):
It just endured.
Oh, she was biting you andpawing you and all that stuff.
And after that happened, she hadto resort to throwing her own
damn head into a solid wood doorto threaten me that she would
call the cops.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:54):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (01:02:54):
And I'm like, if you're that decrepitly fucked
up, you need to leave.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:00):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (01:03:00):
And you can't use manipula you can't use emotional
manipulation because you can'toutforce me.

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:08):
Like that's not gonna work.
Oh well, and that is the powerthat they can technically use
against us that because theydon't have the physical
superiority.
Right.
So that technically that is whatthey can use, but if that's not
uh coming at us, we're not gonnausually, most of us are not
gonna try to give that back.

SPEAKER_05 (01:03:27):
Oh no, I've been hit by all but two of the
relationships I've been in, andI've only had to hit back once.

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:34):
Yeah.
I mean, and here's the thing isthat I will say firmly, my mom
has always been a proponent.
I mean, huge.
Yeah.
If if a woman hits you, you sockher back.

SPEAKER_07 (01:03:44):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:45):
And I don't know what yours has told you or even
your mother has told you.
But I mean, but still my dad, onthe other hand, would counter
that and say, you never hit awoman.
My dad is a full believer inthat.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:58):
Yeah, I don't have much to add because I've never
been in a relationship wherephysical abuse was a thing.

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:05):
I didn't have a I mean I really haven't either.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:08):
Yeah.
But growing up, that's acompletely different story.

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:12):
Right, right.
Right.
And but the thing is, is that II I really and I guess like your
friend's ex said, maybe maybeyou don't know until you're in
the situation sometimes.
Fair enough.
I mean, I can't imagine you.
To a degree.
I too no, I know.
I'm not I guess I'm using thisspecifically.
Not not theirs.
Yeah.
I just want to use that phrase.
But um like you said, I'm sureyou didn't go into relationships

(01:04:36):
probably thinking that would beyour reaction to that.

SPEAKER_05 (01:04:38):
Oh, I never thought I would ever do that.

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:39):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (01:04:40):
And it was only one time, and you've been hit a lot.
But honestly, it was it wasfull-on self-protection.
Because if I hadn't taken it tothat level, she would have
continued to hurt me.
Like I was genuinely physicallyharmed.
Yeah, I know you were.
Not just emotionally, butphysically harmed by this

(01:05:00):
person.
Yeah, I know you were.
And she was one of the tallergirls that I haven't taken.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:05):
I know it was.
Yeah, I know it was.

SPEAKER_05 (01:05:06):
I mean, she was not she was not she was not a
damsel.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:10):
No, and and that's the thing.
And not in distress anyway.

SPEAKER_04 (01:05:18):
So I think unless you guys have something to add
to that piece, a segue I wouldlike to go to, and this is
probably gonna get prettycontroversial.
Oh, good.
If we haven't already hit thatalready.
I don't think we've alreadygone.
Damn.
So we're gonna get into sexpower and the shame game.

SPEAKER_05 (01:05:37):
Oh, well, that'll be the excellent uh segue there,
because we can talk about SamOne.

SPEAKER_04 (01:05:41):
That's exactly what I was saying.
Oh, with your girl.
Okay.
So I was gonna say is, you know,and I don't I mean, that's the
order I have things in, but howdo you do you have someone you
want to launch from that?
Or do you want me to go on theactual order?
No, go ahead.
Okay.
I'll know you'll get there.
Well, I'll throw vignettes out,but I don't want to tell a life
story.
No, I get that, I get that.

(01:06:02):
Um so you know, it's like Imean, we'll get into the whole
Me Too movement and all thatstuff.
No, I want to, because honestly,I don't like it either.
Um so you know, it's like whenwe're talking about a man
appreciating a woman's beauty,and we're talking human
sexually, okay?
Um every time we do that, itseems like, especially in

(01:06:25):
today's culture, we're evenconsidered accuser, accused or
or uh predators or all thisstuff.
Well, but here's here's myhere's my thing is that I get
the difference between if I ifI'm out in public and I see a
woman that I find attractive,I'm not gonna be like, you know,
oof, and just stare at her andmake all these gestures and

(01:06:47):
everything.
But I'm telling you, you getcaught even acknowledging yeah,
look at their breasts, look attheir ass.
I mean, that's what I'm saying.
But what I'm saying is like youget caught doing that at all,
and it's it's not by mysignificant other, because
honestly, we joke about thatsometimes.
Like, oh, she's cute.
But it's like, I guarantee, evenby Katie, if I was just ogling

(01:07:08):
up and down a lot, which I getwhy that's uncomfortable.
But I'm just saying, even ifyou're caught remotely glancing
by the person you're doing itat, oh my god.
You might get like are you, youknow, it's that whole thing.
Well, me too led into all men.
Yeah, that's where I was going.

(01:07:29):
Thank you.
And it's it But I will say, howdoes a man feel when they're
ogled by a woman?
I mean, I feel pretty goddamngood about it.
How you doing?
I right?
I mean, it's like, oh hell,she's noticing me.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:42):
I got hit with it a couple weeks ago.
Did you?
Yeah.
How'd you handle it?
Uh I felt felt really good forit.
Felt really good, right?
I mean, that day I was kind ofhaving a sh shit day anyway.
And just going through the storeand someone was like, damn, not
bad.
I wasn't not bad yourself, girl.
And then we just moved on.
But I was like, you know what?
That made my day right there.

SPEAKER_04 (01:08:03):
Right?

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:03):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:08:04):
And I gotta tell you I gotta tell you, I mean, when I
mean I'm married and have abeautiful relationship and all
this, but when my attractivenessis acknowledged, period, I I
enjoy it.
You know, especially as someonewho doesn't feel particularly
attractive.
We saw your video.
Which one?

SPEAKER_05 (01:08:21):
With the gushers.

SPEAKER_04 (01:08:23):
Yeah.
I'm glad you caught that.
I can't believe nobody caughtthat not so subtle thing.
That pissed me the fuck off,honestly.
I really worked hard to createthat little in your but anyway.
It's like, you know, when I goout, and I'll tell you what, the
dad energy is really unique.
Because I can tell you I've goneout with a couple friends who
are objectively well betterlooking than me, and I'm noticed

(01:08:43):
just as much as them.
Not Ryan.
But it's like it's like I know,right?
Asterisk, Ryan.
Yeah.
Well, Ryan.

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:52):
Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 (01:08:52):
Ryan and I have a very um like I I joke with his
girlfriend now, they're like,you have him now, but that ass
is mine.
It's like you're not gonna findthis funny, probably, because
it'll be cringe for you.
No, there's a reason.
Because it's I don't know, Idon't know if I told you this,
but we were playing, uh we wentto play VR.
Like one of those VR things.

(01:09:12):
I don't know if I told you this.
And we all had the headsets onexcept me, and I went and
grabbed Ryan's ass.
No, I didn't know that.
Yeah, I did.
I went and grabbed his ass, andthen um he's like, whoa,
Christina.
And I said, Yep, that wasChristina.
And by the way, there's a storytoo I have to tell, and this is
a little meandering, but it'sfunny.
On grabbing Ryan's ass.

(01:09:34):
I've all I've grabbed that assthree times in my life.
Welcome to the episode, Ryan'sass.
No, it's funny.
It's funny.
I've grabbed it three times inmy life because my God, he's got
a great ass.
He is America's ass.

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:47):
You know, Captain America?

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:48):
He is America.
He is anyway.

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:50):
That is America's ass.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:51):
That is America's ass.
But anyway, it was uh it was adate, uh, it was week three into
mine and Katie's relationship.
We drove down to Spencer to seeRyan and his wife at the time,
and they all three of them gothammered drunk.
I don't drink, so I'm always thesober one, and I love that
because I get to manipulate andand observe.
So they're all drunk, and out ofnowhere, um Ryan's ex-wife

(01:10:13):
started grabbing Ryan's ass, andit's a perfect ass.
I'll say it up and down.
It's great.
It's better than most.
I I've made lots of comments.
I I was okay, not anothersegment.
Um, but anyway, so you know,Kate was oh should I said her
name oh yeah, I don't care.
Um she was grabbing it, and thenI I urged Katie to do it.

(01:10:33):
I said, you know, you might aswell hop on that train.
Just and she did.
We've all been there, and she'slike, that was pretty nice.
And I said, let me let me tapthat.
But I don't know.
That was I had to share that.
You gave her the whole pass soyou could do it exactly.
I see.
That was the first time I got.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:53):
Oh yeah.
Really?

SPEAKER_04 (01:10:54):
Katie was a drinker for a while, not like obsessed
with but no, the joke.
The funny thing about her iswhen she would get drunk, you'd
always she always did thisthing.
Excuse me.
It was always the fingerpointing thing.
You never stop her.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:07):
No.

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:08):
One of my favorite things my brother Michael would
do is get her drunk and thenhe'd get her going.
It was funny.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:14):
Katie, you're soon.
Bring it over alcohol.
I need to.
She doesn't drink anymore.

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:19):
Like one sip, and she's just down for the because
she stopped when Max was fine.
Or pregnant.
Anyway, um, I totally forgotwhere I was going.
I just started thinking ofRyan's ass and sexual from you
know, give me five minutes.
We love going there.
You gotta take care of yourself?
Yeah, it's a Ryan's ass.
I've got pictures of it.
Yeah, I got all the biggest.
I've got a whole full Bob.

SPEAKER_01 (01:11:45):
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:45):
Um, Ryan, I hope you find this funny because I know
you listen to these.
Love you, rah-ra.

SPEAKER_07 (01:11:54):
Awkward.

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:55):
Not for me.
Um anyway.
Um, I just deleted that wholenote, guys.
Ryan's I deleted.
We're improvising.
We're off script.
I think my belly uh touched it.
You know, that's uh Oh nope hereit is, I'm sorry.
Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_05 (01:12:12):
Back on script.

SPEAKER_04 (01:12:15):
Okay, so uh back into the the sexuality thing.
Aside from Ryan's ass.
Um In fact, I'm gonna include alink to Ryan's TikTok so you all
can view it for yourself.
Please do.
Yeah, that would be awesome.
What's funny is he has like4,500 followers and he can see
the metrics.
Like a huge percent of them aregay men.

SPEAKER_05 (01:12:38):
Times are some time.
And I guess I'm one of them.
Perhaps.
Okay, I'm sorry.
Stay with pride, son.

SPEAKER_04 (01:12:47):
Uh okay.
So as far as the uh that goes,um I I I don't like being made
to feel like a predator justbecause I simply acknowledge a
woman's beauty, even if it is asexual beauty.
It doesn't mean I'm going torape this woman or have even any
desire to act on that physicalum attraction.

(01:13:11):
Well, I can tell you I have nodesire to be with anybody but my
wife, 100%.
But that doesn't keep me fromacknowledging others' beauty,
even men's, apparently.
Apparently, Ryan is very muchin.

SPEAKER_02 (01:13:24):
Ryan's the one exception.
He's the one melee.

SPEAKER_04 (01:13:28):
Him and James McAvoy.
But anyway.
James McAvoy.
He's odd.
You could do so much better.
I'm just kidding.
But he's got so manypersonalities.
Uh now I see it.

SPEAKER_02 (01:13:39):
Well, you can end up with Patricia one night.
Oh God.

SPEAKER_05 (01:13:42):
Hey, you know the names.
But between the two of you, it'dbe a gangbang, right?
That'd be the only opportunity Ihave at a gangbang.

SPEAKER_04 (01:13:50):
The voices and the person.
Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 (01:13:52):
You're taking Patricia tonight.

SPEAKER_01 (01:13:55):
Oh, that's I'm taking Danger.

SPEAKER_03 (01:13:57):
I want the beast.

SPEAKER_05 (01:13:59):
The beast is not good.
Split gangbang.
That's the porn I want to seenow.

SPEAKER_04 (01:14:06):
Wait, when when uh what if two Tom might need a VPN
for this one?
What if two what if two um whatdo they call it?
Dual identity what if two DIDsgot together and had sex?
Is that what a 48-way gangbang?

SPEAKER_05 (01:14:20):
Yeah, no, it'd literally be like a Bonnie Blue
experience.

SPEAKER_04 (01:14:24):
Holy shit.
Yeah, right.
And what if differentpersonalities were into
different kinks?
That's gotta be a thing.
Yeah.
It's gonna save on uh, you know,so what I'm hearing is we need
to traumatize more women at ayoung age.
Yeah, you know.
So we can find them and get themto split.
Yeah, split.

SPEAKER_05 (01:14:45):
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, that would be the comedyportion of our reel.
We're gonna move on.
Um, I had so much more material.

SPEAKER_06 (01:14:53):
Oh, I don't think we need to go then.

unknown (01:14:55):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (01:14:55):
So so you're you're you're uh you're you're talking
about you don't want to beobjectified sexually No, never
mind, you did want to beobjectified.
You don't want to be made to bea predator because you observe a
woman's sexuality and beauty ina very similar lens.
Yes.

SPEAKER_04 (01:15:15):
And that goes to appreciating different body
parts.
Yeah, no, sexual organs, thatgoes to that.

SPEAKER_05 (01:15:21):
I'm sorry.
And I I I have always defaultedto we are made the way we're
made.
And go on that train because Iwanted you to.
There are there are certainaspects of women, but we're not
talking about women today, thatare innately women.
They don't serve the maleperspective, they don't enhance

(01:15:46):
or create anything better for mylife, but it is something
specifically for you, the wayyou observe men or society.
I'm gonna observe it the way Iobserve it through my lens,
through my perspective.
Now, where that stops is Ireally want to and kind of bring
in the me too piece.

(01:16:07):
Me too became all men, right?
Like it was hashtag me too, andnow it's hashtag all men.
Right.
Yeah.
I would very much like to umrequest that all of us,
regardless of gender, put ourthinking brains back in our
head.
And understand that while thereis a faction of men that go too

(01:16:29):
far, the faction that createdall women, that's the
equivalent.
Um let's if if any of this isever gonna work and we're ever
gonna stop being on depressantsand have high suicide rates and
high depression, it's gonna bethat we finally figure out we've
got to work together.

(01:16:50):
So I ha and the weird thing is,if you ask men, oh, do you
observe beauty in a woman andyou can you can say, Oh yeah, I
oh uh yeah, for sure.
I almost a hundred percent ofmen are gonna tell you that,
right?
If you interview women and youdon't even have to, well, I
think even gay men would say, Ohyeah.

(01:17:12):
Hell yeah.
Oh, fair enough.
Yeah, you're right, you'reright.
But it's just observing Ryan'sass is the exact example I'd
like to bring in.

SPEAKER_02 (01:17:21):
We can get a picture of Ryan's ass and just put it in
the room.

SPEAKER_05 (01:17:24):
You guys no one would watch.
Um Ryan, we need your help.
Where was I going with that?
I hate it.

SPEAKER_04 (01:17:31):
What was I saying?
I don't remember.
So you were talking about Istarted thinking of Ryan's ass
again.

SPEAKER_05 (01:17:38):
I know.
It's like the right scene.

SPEAKER_04 (01:17:43):
It's like the the men in black uh look into the
red light.

SPEAKER_05 (01:17:47):
Umled a hundred men, you'd probably get almost a
hundred saying, yes, when I lookat a beautiful woman, I am going
to see it in a sexual sense.
I can see just beauty.
Sure.
But if it's attached to female,it does have a sexual undertone
for me as a man.

(01:18:07):
It is the way I'm programmed.
Um but if you ask a hundredwomen, you're not gonna get a
hundred women.
Because, you know, you go outand you you watch reels or
TikToks or whatever.
You've got women who are like,don't cat call me from across
the room, and they always haveblue hair.
And then you're gonna have theother side of that.

(01:18:28):
They're gonna be like, and I'veliterally seen this.
Can we bring back catcalling?
Like whatever happened to realmen?
Like that whole thing, likethere's they're it's not a
hundred percent that think allmen, right?
You know, so let's have thosepeople start to speak up a
little bit more and we can bringsome sanity to this conversation

(01:18:49):
because the insanity is kind ofwhy we're having this podcast.
The or or this episode of thepodcast.

SPEAKER_04 (01:18:58):
Well, yeah, but I mean You know what's interesting
that that just hit me is withthat, is you mentioned how you
know there's some women wantingto bring back cat going.
Can we bring that back?
It's like the reason why theother is so much louder and more
hitting is because that'sattached to trauma.
When men do prey on women,you've got trauma with that.
Yeah.
And what does everyone honestlycrave?

(01:19:19):
I I think there is a traumacrave thing.
Don't get me on that, but Ithink there is.
What?
People do crave a level oftrauma for attention.

SPEAKER_05 (01:19:29):
Well, it you immediately put Raquel the
capacity expert in my head.
Uh-huh.
Thank you.
Good God.
I love her.
Please on the show.
Flood her page with subscribe.

SPEAKER_04 (01:19:42):
Well, you notice her channel's gone so fast up.

SPEAKER_05 (01:19:45):
Good.

SPEAKER_04 (01:19:46):
She needs to.
She I want to get her on theshow.
But she oh, she absolutely needsto enlighten me about her.

SPEAKER_05 (01:19:51):
We'll send I'll send you a link to her.
Um tell them what her stick is.
Her big thing is capacity.
And what she's saying is thattherapy was never meant to have
you dig deeper into your traumaso you could stay in it and
create an identity in it.
Therapy was always about let'sacknowledge that trauma, but

(01:20:11):
then let's figure out how do webuild a capacity for you to
handle that pain and still pushforward.
Or turn it into a strength.
Right.
That's the other thing that canbe done.
Whatever.
Therapy was initially supposedto be, hey, let's figure out how
to get you feeling better.

SPEAKER_04 (01:20:27):
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (01:20:28):
And instead, too much of it has turned into
Coddling comfort.
It's it's a dialogue to figureout how you can label everything
that's wrong and then use it toset boundaries.
Use it to set boundaries or makeexcuses.
Right.
I mean, oh, I'm gonna need youto stop that.
That's a trigger for me.

(01:20:49):
Well, that's you admitting to methat you don't have the
capacity, i.e., you're weak andcan't get through this
situation.
Right.
As a functional adult, youshould be able to get from that
side of the room to this side ofthe room and ignore me the rest
of your fucking day.

SPEAKER_04 (01:21:03):
Right, right, true.
Yep.

SPEAKER_05 (01:21:05):
If you don't have the capacity to pass through the
room that I'm in, even if I'moffending you, and then go on
with the rest of your dayletting me live rent-free,
pissing you off for the rest ofthe day, you're the fucking
problem.
Yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_02 (01:21:17):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (01:21:18):
Yep.

SPEAKER_02 (01:21:18):
I mean As long as they don't maintain that thought
their entire life, that somepeople could take a while to get
to that point to where theycould.
Sure, sure.
Like uh my friend is a goodexample.

SPEAKER_05 (01:21:29):
But but that's for okay, so therapy should spur
growth, not excuse.
Yeah.
Not excuse where you're at.

SPEAKER_04 (01:21:39):
Your friend has not done that.
He's still trucking along,living his life, growing,
advancing, moving on.

SPEAKER_05 (01:21:46):
And it's a process for him, but he is well, okay,
so your your friend is two yearsin.
I'm ten years in from something.
Right.
I was where where that personwas two years in.
It you're gonna move atdifferent rates, yeah, at
different places on thatjourney.
Right.
You're you're not gonna movesuper fast in the beginning, but

(01:22:07):
it's like I was having theconversation the other day.
You know, you you mentioned itearlier, and I almost chimed in.
Uh education, right, isknowledge.
But it's not wisdom till you canput it to practice.
Right, exactly.
Right?
So the interesting thing is,okay, if I show you a napkin,
what is this?

(01:22:27):
It's a napkin.
Okay, what do we what do you dowith it?
Well, I can cover my lap, I canwash my hands, I can wipe my
nap.
That's wisdom.
Right.
Knowing it's a napkin isknowledge.
Knowing what to do.
That napkin, okay, I write ABCon a piece of paper, you go, oh,
that's the alphabet.
Okay, what do you do with thealphabet?
Oh, you create words, language,communication, right?

(01:22:48):
So I put those A, B, C on anapkin, it spells I love you.
Now what do you have?
You have a message.
So wisdom is exponential.
You're a poetic motherfucker.
What thank you.
Do you like that?
That's a turn on.
Stand up, I'll try to get it.
All the sapiosexuals out there,come on, hit me up.
Um but we'll talk about itlater.

(01:23:10):
But the idea is that two yearsin, that person doesn't have the
wisdom yet to start puttingwisdom with wisdom and come up
with wisdom that's beyond theknowledge.
Right.

SPEAKER_07 (01:23:28):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (01:23:29):
And once you get to that point, it becomes a much
faster journey out.
Okay?
Having been there, man, I wassuicidal.
I talked to him about God, all Iwant to do is I'm hitting 80, 90
miles an hour on the switch.
Find a fucking concrete wall andmake it my friend.

SPEAKER_06 (01:23:47):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (01:23:48):
But you get beyond that, and as you get further
from it, you do exponentiallyspeed up.

SPEAKER_06 (01:23:53):
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (01:23:53):
So I think, to kind of try to bring all that back,
uh I think there's a way for us,and that's that everybody who is
more in the middle, right?
The the conservatives spoke inour most recent presidential
campaign, right?
To bring us back the otherdirection a little bit.
I think those of us who sit inthe middle need to be a little

(01:24:14):
more vocal and less comfortable.
Oh, exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
Because I think it will helppolitically, I think it'll help
financially, I think it'll helpwith relationships.

SPEAKER_04 (01:24:23):
Exactly, because the loudest voices are on the
extremes.
Yeah.
And the middle, honestly, arejust so content.

SPEAKER_05 (01:24:28):
The blue hairs and the red hats.
It's Trump's fault.

SPEAKER_04 (01:24:32):
But it is true.
I mean, I don't we're notgetting to politics.
No, it's not.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
The only thing I want to talkabout with that is the extremes
of it.
And that plays in anything.
Most people, even the loudvoices, are not actually
extremists.

SPEAKER_05 (01:24:48):
No.
They're not.
But me too started in themiddle.
And men fought that fight withwomen.
They did.
But when it became believe allwomen, hashtag all men, now it's
the blue hairs and the red hatsyelling.
Yeah, you're right.
It's not the people who aregenuinely fighting the fight
anymore.
It's somebody who's fighting forsocial justice.
Right.

(01:25:08):
And you bring in social justicefighters and you might as well
fucking turn the lights out.
Party's over.

SPEAKER_04 (01:25:14):
Well, and and let me let me share a story real quick
of a friend of mine.
Um, there's a there's a friend,and it does play into this a
little bit.
So very early on in my in myfriend's relationship, um his
the girl he was seeing was umbasically at her apartment with
her friend, and they had juststarted dating, it was very

(01:25:34):
early on.
Well, he they they had a datethat afternoon.
He went and got, he went and atefizz always with his mom.
And then he brought he got anextra load of breadsticks.
And he literally just brought itover to her apartment.
Completely kind gesture.
That's all it was.
He knew she liked thebreadsticks, he brought her

(01:25:56):
breadsticks.
Right.
Now he was gonna bring itdirectly to her apartment, but
it just so happened her and herfriend were walking in the
sidewalk.
So all he did was pull up andgive her the breadsticks and
left.
But what's funny is she tells astory now that she was creeped
the fuck out by it.

(01:26:17):
She's like, is this guy apredator?
Is this guy, you know, wantingto have, you know, all this
thing?
It's like, is he a stalker now?
It's like that was what wasgoing through her head.
Now, by the way, this couple ismarried now.
But is is interesting that thatwas a perfectly kind, innocent
gesture that was interpreted asis is this possibly a is it

(01:26:42):
possibly this, is it possiblythat?
And I think it does, I don'tknow if it's exactly me too, but
that is such an unfair.

SPEAKER_05 (01:26:51):
I mean I I to have that be theassumption.
You know, the other side of itthough, too, is like the the
sidewalk test, right?
Right.
If you're a female and on theother side there's a man walking
towards you on the other side ofthe street, you're fine.
But if he crosses the street,immediately you're in danger.
Right.
Right.
Regardless of whether you youwalk up close enough and oh my

(01:27:12):
god, it's my fifth gradeteacher.
Right.
Something totally innocuous.
You as a woman, you have to havethat awareness.
You do, I agree with thatcompletely.
But it it's been that narrativehas been pushed to the extreme
as the oldest.
To where it's now the firstthought.
It is, and that's the thing isthat self-protective, though,

(01:27:34):
it's gender-specific andhurtful.

SPEAKER_04 (01:27:37):
Exactly.
And the the thing is that youknow she would reflect on it now
and say that she was totally offbase going immediately to that.
There were no signs of anythinglike that.
Even she looks back and says,that was actually a really sweet
gesture.
But in that moment, it's like,uh oh.
And they've probably been datingtwo or three weeks at this

(01:27:57):
point.

SPEAKER_05 (01:27:58):
And she she came clean about that with the case.
I said they're married now.
The funny thing is, that's I getyou.
Yeah.
But I think that that's the waygood relationships work.
Yeah, at least they were able tocome together and talk about it.
And they didn't.
And it but it it's And I guessit surpassed that discomfort.

(01:28:18):
For an early it's not an earlyconversation, but in an early
part of your relationship,that's a hard thing to probably
bring up.
So the fact that she was able totell you, hey, look, I actually
thought this way and you turnedout to be this way.
Right.
You know, that that's a veryself-aware thing.
And it's it's a good thing to beable to share with your partner.

SPEAKER_04 (01:28:39):
Well, and I gotta say, I think it segues into just
talking about things.
Talk about things.

SPEAKER_05 (01:28:46):
That's what we're doing, man.

SPEAKER_04 (01:28:47):
That's what we're doing.
Ryan's that I feel like you havesomething you want to say.

SPEAKER_02 (01:28:51):
No, I was kinda questioning the whole thing.
Like I can see her approach thatis kind of creepy.
Let me so like, let me, okay.
I guess I just have questionsabout it.
Was this dude like driving andthey were like, you know, on the
sidewalk?

SPEAKER_05 (01:29:09):
I mean, as far as I understand, it was something
like that, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:29:11):
Okay.

SPEAKER_05 (01:29:12):
Did did your friend pull up and say, hey, little
girl?
Probably.
He did?
Okay.
Well, see that part's clear.
No, I know.

SPEAKER_04 (01:29:18):
I mean, no, from what I I mean, from what I
understand, he just kind ofpulled up alongside.
They just happened to bewalking.
But they had just they had justgotten off the date.

SPEAKER_06 (01:29:26):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 (01:29:26):
And if I'm not misunderstanding, it sounds like
he had even told her he washaving lunch with his mom.
Right.
Because they'd had breakfast.
Gotcha.
So it's not like it was even Imean, it was out of the blue,
but it's not like and I knew sheliked a spontaneous gesture.
It was a spontaneous gesture.
So you know what I'm saying?
So it's just like to just goimmediately to that is is not it

(01:29:50):
is.
But I do get the thing too.
What you were saying is thesidewalk test is a very real
thing.
And I'm not saying in today, Imean, period, women do need to
be careful.
Sure.
But in that situation, I mean,she had already established a
pretty good connection with him.
Yeah.
And there was no hint of that.
So that's what I'm saying.
It's like there was no precursorto thinking, okay, I'm getting,

(01:30:12):
I'm getting I got vice beforethis, and that oh, oh, okay,
there's the test.
It's like, let's chill out andand understand that most of the
time, intentions are completelypure.
So anyway, I mean that's kind ofwhat I want to say.

SPEAKER_02 (01:30:28):
I just wanted to, I guess, ask because maybe there's
an other people out there justkind of wondering the same
thing.

SPEAKER_04 (01:30:33):
No, I mean that that that's that's the story as I
understand it.
Um but anyway, I just think thatkind of plays into again the the
unfortunate um labels or the youknow the the um the negativity
or I don't know what I'm tryingto say here, the the predatory
nature that is just thestereotype that is placed upon

(01:30:55):
men that is is is most of thetime not there.
I'm not saying it'snon-existent, it's just like to
say women can't be predators.

SPEAKER_05 (01:31:03):
No.

SPEAKER_04 (01:31:03):
You hear the female teachers preying on the kids a
lot, honestly, just as much asas the men you hear that on that
one.
You've seen a lot of that too.
I know plenty of it going on.
And of course, I mean I have tothrow this out there.
I mean, you know, South Park didan episode on that, what, 20
some years ago?
And it's a funny fucking episodebecause all the cops, you know,
they they I don't know if you'veseen this one, but you know,

(01:31:24):
it's Ike is getting with thatfourth grade or that teacher,
and of course he's loving it.
He's getting sex from this hotteacher.
They they go to the cops, andthe cops don't even take it
seriously, where were all theseteachers when I was?
Well, and that's actually a truenarrative.
It is mostly.
And honestly, I but I even Ilook back now, and yeah, does it

(01:31:45):
sound sexy as shit?
There were teachers I found hotas fuck.
I'm like, God, I would havefucked them back.

SPEAKER_05 (01:31:49):
We even had music videos, hot for teacher.
Uh right.

SPEAKER_02 (01:31:52):
I mean, it is it is a thing, but then then it's like
the same from varsity blues.
I exactly teacher they're alsolike holy shit, she's hot.

SPEAKER_04 (01:32:00):
But here's the thing and it's that is a fantasy, and
how many people I mean thatfantasy is even enacted in role
play.
Right?
I mean, both roles, I mean,usually it's probably the male
teacher and the female student,that's the one you see a lot.
But what I'm saying is that is afantasy for one thing, and two,

(01:32:20):
I can definitely say I wouldlook back, and if I was getting
even with a teacher I foundsuper hot.
You want to get diddled by ateacher, yeah.
But I'm I'm saying that, yeah,objectively, it's like that that
sounds pretty cool.
Like I can think of a coupleteachers I'd I'd have dug that
from objectively, but I willalso say I'd have been scarred
from that.
You can look at things from acomical point and realistically,

(01:32:45):
and god damn it, can we get backto that?

SPEAKER_05 (01:32:47):
But but do you really, yeah, I mean, do you
want the same things that12-year-old you wanted as an
adult?
That's so that's what I'msaying.

SPEAKER_04 (01:32:54):
No, there's again it's wisdom and distance, and
but I'm sure gonna laugh my assoff about that.
That was such a funny thought.
And honestly, we all honestly, Ididn't have to watch South Park
to joke about that.
No, you know what I mean?
Men would joke about that.
It's like the song That Summerby Garth Brooks.
Well, I laughed my ass off atthat song.

SPEAKER_05 (01:33:13):
Well, and I remember Mary Kayla, is it Mary Kay
Laterno, I think is the one ofthe first big cases of that
teacher who had the 14-year-oldkid and and ended up having
several children with him.
Yeah, I think.
No, I know Truman.
But when that came out, and youknow, the uproar from men wasn't

(01:33:35):
see women, you're just likeguess.
It was men, where were thoseteachers from?
You know, it wasn't we didn'tjust immediately jump to
villainizing female gender inthe table.
Well uh Okay.
But you know what I'm gettingout of that.
No, help me.
Turn it the other way.
Well, yeah, exactly.

(01:33:55):
If it was a male teacher doingthat to a female student, I
mean, even but even men wouldwant to lynch him.

SPEAKER_04 (01:34:06):
No, isn't that interesting?
You know, uh that's the part Idon't understand.
Like I can't even describe whythat's that way in my head.
I'm but that's fully wired in.

SPEAKER_05 (01:34:16):
But it's that sense of right and wrong, and that to
us is concrete versus it beingan emotional thing.
It is very concrete.
I think again, if you ask ahundred men, you're gonna mostly
get a hundred men who are gonnasay, yeah, that teacher needs to
rot, otherwise someone's gonnakill him.
Right.
Same thing did not happen forthis Mary Kay Laterno or any of

(01:34:37):
the ones, you know.
I mean, there was one morerecent, I think it was up in
Detroit or Michigan or somethinglike that, where she was even
engaged to like start a lifewith this guy.

SPEAKER_06 (01:34:46):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (01:34:47):
And she's stringing this kid along because he broke
up with her and like she'storturing him.
Like, I can't imagine being apreteen or a teen boy having
some adult make threats againstme.

SPEAKER_04 (01:35:02):
Oh, yeah, I yeah, I can't either.
I mean, it's just like back theneven high school relationships
were a nightmare.

SPEAKER_05 (01:35:07):
But it's still not the uproar uh like you're not
gonna get the uproar from mengoing, oh, that bitch needs to
die.
Really?
Instead, we're still making thesame jokes, going, man, that
dude got some sweet tang beforehe got out of middle school.
I mean, it's you know and we canjoke about that.
And and while I don't think thatwomen necessarily need to take

(01:35:30):
rape or whatever, or you know,predatory behavior from a male
and turn it into comedy, no.
I I think there needs to be alittle more of that middle I was
just talking about in that, hey,let's all band together and make
sure that this person doesn'thurt someone else.
Right.
Instead of it becoming hashtagall men.

SPEAKER_04 (01:35:51):
Right.
And that's the thing is that youknow one bad egg can spoil the
whole, the whole, whatever thatdoesn't or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_05 (01:35:58):
But let's make sure that we understand that one bad
bad egg is separated doesn'tspoil the whole.
Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 (01:36:06):
And it's a shame that it has to be that way.
Um and I do know that um well Idon't know, I don't know if I
want to share this with withyour friend, but um there's
often situations where, youknow, that you know what story

(01:36:26):
I'm talking about.
It's up to you if you thinkwhich.
But what I was gonna say is whatyou have to say first.
Well, I would rather it's yourfriend's story.
I don't I I wanna if you want togauge what should be shared
about it, or we don't have to.

SPEAKER_02 (01:36:39):
I don't think he really wants to talk about wants
that being talked about.
That's kind of what I figured.

SPEAKER_04 (01:36:43):
So, but it in this whole thing, it's like even
situations where things areagreed upon mutually as far as
like what's safe in the bedroomand things like that.
If things go awry, it can beturned against the man.
It's like, well, you know, it'slike we had a great
relationship, and then we wantedto do these things in the

(01:37:04):
bedroom, and both were agreeingmutually, and then it's like,
well, you know what?
So then the relationship goessouth, and it's like, oh you
know what, you just said itperfectly.

SPEAKER_02 (01:37:14):
Like, my I don't have to touch on any of that
from my friend.
Yeah.
Like I think you just summedthat up perfectly.

SPEAKER_04 (01:37:19):
Right?
And it's like, what the hell?
It's like you wanted that, andit's like, oh, well, now the
relationship went south, so I'mgonna accuse you of things
because that's power.
Well, and that's that's ruiningthat man.

SPEAKER_05 (01:37:31):
That's the thing.
Um, I I don't know what the pollwould be.
I know what my my own preferenceis.
To me, okay, so for my personalself experience and
gratification in the bedroom, Idon't need power to necessarily

(01:37:53):
play into a pleasurableexperience with my partner.
Sure.
Um I go back to the theaforementioned partner who ended
up being the only person I everhad to fight back against.
Um we we actually explored somethings that she was interested

(01:38:14):
in.
Um uh there was a strictschedule to certain aspects of
things she wanted done to her.
Right.
I don't know if we've talkedabout this stuff in depth, but
if you're if you're in the BDSMcommunity, you understand

(01:38:36):
contract structure, you know,safe words, all that fun stuff.
And all of it is built on trust.
And that that's why a lot ofpeople engage in these kinds of
acts to begin with, is thatthere is a heightened level of
trust needed on both sides toboth submit or dominate, right?

(01:38:57):
Both, yeah.
It's both because both can beuncomfortable, actually.
Well what I found, which wasinteresting, I tried to give
what she needed.
It became uncomfortable at acertain point for me.
Because she wanted so extreme,and that is what led to
violence, which then led to thatextreme of me having to push

(01:39:20):
back.

SPEAKER_04 (01:39:21):
Now, when you guys split, did she ever like come
back to you and call you arapist or anything?
No, but the Did she ever usethat like you sexually assaulted
me or something?

SPEAKER_05 (01:39:31):
Well, that's her throwing her own head into a
solid wood door.

SPEAKER_04 (01:39:34):
Mm-hmm.
I see what you're saying withthat.
I see what you're saying withthat.
That's a physical manifestationof that exact thing.
Okay, I got you.
Yeah, okay.
So it Interesting.

SPEAKER_05 (01:39:44):
It's it's that's an extreme version of the right in
the right usage, it can be agreat thing.
Because I have had severalpeople that have wanted those
kinds of things, right?
Yeah.
Um like and and I'll just speakon this one because it's it's
not even violence.
Because just to give you kind ofan insight into what those

(01:40:08):
things can be, if you okay, soyou you think about the BDSM
world and we talk about rope,right?
But and it can be a verydangerous thing too.
But also think about this.
To put someone in some of thoseTies, it takes time.
Well, what are you doing in thattime?
Paying attention and showingcare and you're talking.

(01:40:30):
You're asking their comfort.
You're sharing, you know, justyour day and how things it's a
very intimate experience.
It is.

SPEAKER_04 (01:40:38):
And built on trust.

SPEAKER_05 (01:40:39):
That right, you're literally having to trust me
because I'm putting this on you,and I'm trusting you to tell me
that I'm not hurting you.
It's both, too.

SPEAKER_04 (01:40:48):
Right.

Trevor Burrus, Jr. (01:40:48):
You have to trust that they'll tell you
they're uncomfortable.
It very much has to be.

SPEAKER_05 (01:40:52):
And there's an awkwardness to that.

Trevor Burrus, Jr. (01:40:53):
But the thing of it is that you look at
like, okay, so somebody who'snot educated in that realm,
right, is going to look at aphoto of a woman tied up and go,
Oh, that's barbaric.
That's Yeah, okay.
If it's a man, he's probablythinking that.
If it's a woman, she's probablygoing, that's kind of sexy, but
I'm not going to say anything.
Right?
Okay, because it's I don't knowwhere I want to go with this.

(01:41:14):
Okay.
But go ahead, keep going.
No, uh uh really the point I'mmaking is that this thing that
can be so scary, the reason thefact that it's scary is kind of
the part that raises the levelof need for trust, right?
Yeah.
Which deepens the experience.
Absolutely.
So I understand why people getinto it, and I understand why

(01:41:35):
people have specific fetishes,things that they like.
Yeah.
Because there's a danger to it,and that danger elicits trust in
your partner.
Right.
Right.
So that understanding, we couldbuild stronger relationships if
we observe that.
But unfortunately, the climatethat we're in, I would be
hard-pressed to be in arelationship like that now

(01:41:58):
because of plausible deniabilitylater.
Oh, yeah.
If she's upset, I'm fucked.
Yeah, you are.
Yeah.
Because there might not only beher story, but picture evidence.
Or, you know, if you if you'renot sure.

SPEAKER_04 (01:42:13):
Yeah, like she wanted pictures taken of her and
then.

SPEAKER_05 (01:42:16):
And that's the thing.
So it's like that level oftrust, there needs to be an
acknowledgement from the otherside, and this is the male
perspective.
This is a good one.
There needs to be anacknowledgement for the other
side that if these are thingsthat you actually engage in have
the moral strength, the thediscipline, right?

(01:42:40):
The since this is your word,ladies, emotional maturity to
not use something that you knowis a lie against a man.
Because that comes from the factthat you can't physically
overpower men, that's adefinitive thing.
So you take the power through alie.

(01:43:02):
Right, right.
That that lie has built so muchagainst men and has ruined so
many relationships.

SPEAKER_04 (01:43:10):
Going lives, let's go a lot further.
Exactly.
And I gotta say, you know, onthat, it's like one thing that
is a big thing is simulationrape.
It is.
And there's a lot of reasons forthat.

SPEAKER_05 (01:43:21):
It's called What's it called?
It can consensual non-consent.
Okay, yeah, is what it's called.

SPEAKER_04 (01:43:28):
Right.
And the fact is, is that that isa pretty common um fantasy.
Yeah.
From the most innocent ofpeople.
It is.
And the problem is, and and it'snot just it the woman is
uncomfortable sharing that, thatthey have that fantasy because
of how they'll look.

(01:43:49):
Actually, it doesn't even comefrom necessarily always having
to be like, I'll use that as aweapon, it's that I'll be judged
for wanting that.

SPEAKER_05 (01:43:56):
Right.
But I think that's solely femaleimposed.
It is, and actually I was gonnaget on.
Because there's so many men whoare so willing to accept, oh,
you're a little fucked up.
Me too.
Me too.
You know?

SPEAKER_02 (01:44:09):
A lot of women could be like that too, because it's
uh I just know from experience,you know, that's happened in you
know in the past, and thattriggers it somehow, some way.
Like whether you think it'sfucked up or not, it's happened,
but they like the role-playingsimulation of it.

SPEAKER_04 (01:44:29):
Yeah, and and there's also a trust that'd
probably be about as much trustas you could give your partner.
And I mean, I I know for surethere that there's women out
there who have had thatlegitimately happen to them and
have that resim, and it is theirkink.
And to have that simulated in asafe environment takes the power
away from that trauma.

SPEAKER_05 (01:44:49):
I mean, if they do it in a healthy way, that's what
I'm saying.
That's exactly what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_04 (01:44:54):
In a healthy way, I want to say that.

SPEAKER_05 (01:44:55):
Right.
But that that solely depends onher.

SPEAKER_04 (01:44:59):
Yeah, absolutely.
Because that's her agency todecide that that's what it's
for, or that she wants it, orwell and okay.

SPEAKER_05 (01:45:08):
I I I it I don't know if it's controversial or
not, but I have always felt likethat, especially the BDSM
community, is really led by thefeminine.
Because a lot of these kinks,right, most of them are designed

(01:45:32):
as male dominant femalesubmissive, right?
Most of it.
There's some switch, there aresome switch in it.
But for the most part, thethings that I have experienced
are female-led.
Yeah.
So that is not a man or malemasculine thing.

(01:45:53):
Not yeah, I know what you mean.
Yeah, it really more manipulatesma masculinity for her for the
pleasure of the female.
Because if you're, you know, andjust from inside that community,
if you're a dom worth anything,if you're a dominant worth
anything, you know that she's incharge.

(01:46:14):
Yes, that is true.
Her submission is not passivity,it's trust.
Yeah.
Her submission happens becauseshe trusts you.

SPEAKER_04 (01:46:22):
And she's allowing you to explore.

SPEAKER_05 (01:46:24):
And the moment she wavers in that trust, it w which
isn't a so you know a characterassassination of that person, if
she says a safe word, it's done.
Yeah, you stop co-op.
The only thing that happensafter that is aftercare.

SPEAKER_04 (01:46:39):
Yeah, it's comfort and talking about it.

SPEAKER_05 (01:46:41):
And all of that is focused then on the submissive.
So the submissive is the one whocontrols that whole thing.
And if you're in the community,you know that.
But if you look at a picturefrom outside, you're like, look
at that abuse, look at thatabuse.
It looks like yeah.
But that's what is wanted.
That danger.
Yep.
The okay.
The best way I ever heard thisput was in a conversation myself

(01:47:04):
and a partner.
What she wanted was the monsterwho would never hurt her.
Oh.
That's the beauty in the beaststory.
Right.
Right?
Right.
Like he could decimate a town,but he would never hurt me.
Right.
He would conquer a country forme.
Right.

(01:47:24):
So the fantasy is the masculinepower at her disposal.

SPEAKER_04 (01:47:31):
Yeah.
Well, and I mean, you and Idefinitely talk about this, and
I think you're maybe alreadyeven there, um, is you know,
women often want the man to be abeast and dominant in the
bedroom, and they desire that.
And uh we can show that them inthe bedroom, but outside of
that, if that monster comes outin a way that is, you know, I'm

(01:47:52):
again out with that, if it'suncomfortable or you know,
protection even can go thatroute.
It's like we go too far, likekind of what we said earlier.

SPEAKER_05 (01:48:00):
You're controlling.
No, I'm protecting.
Yeah, it is company.
It's very complicated.
Um but that speaks to when I saywe we pull a hundred men versus
a hundred women, you're gonnaget a hundred men say one thing.
You're gonna be the women aregonna say fifty-fifty, two sides
of the story.
Right.
So it very much is a veryindividual thing with women.

(01:48:20):
It is.
It is.
And I need those women whounderstand that to speak up.

SPEAKER_03 (01:48:26):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (01:48:26):
It's happening more and more.
It is.
I'm very proud of thosecreators.

SPEAKER_04 (01:48:30):
Yeah, because I think toxic femininity is
actually going back a littlebit.
It's being it's being called outfinally.
And I will say, and I've eventalked to my wife about this, is
that women are far harder oneach other than we are on them.
Because think about this.
I mean, one thing that it's likeyou get on Tinder, okay, and
I've not been on there, but likedefinitely hurt people who have

(01:48:51):
been.
It's like there's veryattractive men who get on Tinder
and don't get that many hits.
You can get a woman who isobjectively I don't like to say
it this way.
No, I'm trying, I try to say itin a safe way.
It's like who objectively isn'tthere's men who are less
attractive than other men.
I'm less attractive than youtwo.
Let's let's use it that way.

(01:49:11):
So there's there's there'sobjectively people who aren't as
attractive as others.
I'm trying to really Okay, youget the idea.

SPEAKER_05 (01:49:18):
So you get someone on there like that who is a who
is there is a social agreementof what is beautiful and what is
not.
Well I'm trying to those who arecloser to the very graceful with
it.
No, and I'm trying not to haveto do that.

SPEAKER_04 (01:49:30):
I'm not being derogatory.

SPEAKER_05 (01:49:31):
If she's a four and he's a no.
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (01:49:34):
Well what I'm saying is you you get that on there,
those people still get a billionhits from men.

SPEAKER_07 (01:49:41):
Yeah.
Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:49:42):
So and now I think there's a couple of reasons for
that.
I think men are also willing tojust if there's a hole, we'll
we'll happily plug the dike sothat it's not the flood.
I'm saying that.
Exactly.
I'm saying but that too.
But here's the other thing.
We don't judge women near asmuch as they think we're Oh no.

SPEAKER_05 (01:50:00):
And honestly, I think again, if you go back to
the hundred men poll, most of usWe need to just do the goddamn
poll.
Most of us are gonna say nomakeup.

SPEAKER_03 (01:50:09):
Yes, thank you.

SPEAKER_05 (01:50:11):
Or no plastic surgery.
I want to see you natural.
Yeah.
I mean, ultimately I'm gonnafall in love with the person
inside of you.
Yes.
The external is that's theextra.

SPEAKER_04 (01:50:22):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I I'll say this aboutKatie.
It's like, I think she is agorgeous woman.
Objectively, I think she's agorgeous woman.
But I've you know, out of ahundred men now.
We agree.
No, no, but what I'm saying, Ithink many would.
She's a beautiful woman.
I go out in public and I see menlooking at her.
And by the way, I don't get towhere I'm like, oh, if I'm in a

(01:50:44):
bar and that happens, I'm gonnaI don't go to bars, but like
it's not like that vibe whereI'm like, I'm gonna kick your
ass.
Honestly, there's a little bitof a pride in that.

SPEAKER_02 (01:50:51):
Well, sure.
I love going out and that Katiemakes me.
Life is real.
It's like I yeah, it's like Icould take, yeah, I agree with
Tony by saying, like, I'd wantthe natural look.
Like you don't need the makeup.
Yes.
But if a woman is wearing themakeup and she's really feeling
herself and you know she's aboutto pounce on your ass, it's like
that's where it's a greataccessory.

SPEAKER_05 (01:51:12):
You are absolutely right, because the same thing
could be said of, okay, so I'vedone this thing where we have a
pretty woman day, right?
I take her out and we buy herclothes and this kind of thing.
And it's all about her, right?
She ends up trying to ask mewhat I find sexy.
Right?
The thing that makes you feelthe most sexy is the thing I'm

(01:51:33):
gonna say it makes you the mostsexy.
And by the way, you have to readin you have to read it.
But but you can't just say that.
No, but that's what I'm sayingis I have said that multiple
times, multiple relationships.
Can you get a good reaction fromthat?
Yes.
Here's why.
Okay, go ahead, go ahead.
Because I do say look, I willhappily give you my opinion
about something.
But ultimately, if that opiniondoes not fall in line with the

(01:51:55):
way you look in the mirror andyou look at yourself, then I
need you to say, you know what?
No, not this one.
Yeah.
Because to me, the whole pointof us being here is to put you
in your feels about yourself.
Because if you're not trying tolike navigate this minefield of
bullshit that runs through yourhead while I'm over here going,
what are you thinking about?

(01:52:16):
Nothing.
For real.
Thinking about nothing otherthan how pretty you are.
But you know that like they'reworried about does he think I'm
fat?
Does he think I'm stupid?
Does he like there that if I canbuy you clothes that shut that
up so I can have a conversationwith the girl I'm actually
interested in, you're right.
That's what I want.

SPEAKER_04 (01:52:37):
Well, and let me let me share this, and I think it's
okay to share, is that um, youknow, everybody's got um issues
with self-image.
Um, Katie too.
Um, which I'm I look at her, I'mlike, I don't see a single flaw.
Here's the thing is that, youknow, there was the other night
um her and I were together, anduh, you know, we're just having

(01:52:58):
a conversation.
I was kind of massaging herbody.
And no, I think this is okay toshare.
Because it was- it was it wasnot sexual in any way.

SPEAKER_02 (01:53:06):
I was you shut up.
It was actually been differentas Ryan's ass.

SPEAKER_04 (01:53:12):
I can't massage Ryan's ass without it being
sexual.
It's like here, here's Canadian,then here's Ryan's, and then it
goes back to just normal pointmade.
Um anyway, so you know, and andwhile I'm doing this, I kind of
came up with this exercisemyself for her.
It's like, okay, I want you todescribe about your body what

(01:53:33):
you like about your body.
And she could label, she couldname many things.
And I said, What don't you like?
And she could name like two orthree things, just like that.
But then she had to really thinkabout other things.
And the reason I did that,because she's had she's
struggling with some body imagepost-pregnancy and things, which
is normal.

(01:53:53):
But I said, Do you realize howmuch easier it was for you to
label off things that you likemore than you didn't?
And she's like, Yeah.
That's not normal.
I know.
That's a healthy girl.
That is a healthy girl.
Yeah, that's the way it shouldbe.
And what I was exactly, and whatI was doing is she was having a
moment of like, I don't lookgood, I feel gross, blah, blah,
blah.
And that happens.
I feel that way 24-7.

(01:54:14):
But what I'm saying is I didthat with her, and it gave her
this boost of confidence toremember the confidence you have
in your looks.
Because you're a beautifulwoman.
Women are beautiful.
And and like I said, you know,she you know, she names off
these um, you know, things thatshe finds imperfect in her body.

(01:54:35):
I look right past them.
I don't see it.
Well, are there women who areobjectively more attractive than
Katie?
Sure.
By a social standard.
By a social standard, exactly.
But what I'm saying is, nomatter who you're with, if
you're in love with that person,you can find anybody the most
gorgeous person on this planet.

SPEAKER_05 (01:54:54):
Well, and I would say one of the things I'm, you
know, I'll actually throwsomething out that I think is a
credit to women, sorry, youngerguys, um, that women will
gravitate towards an older, moreexperienced man.
Because I know that I know,okay, so, you know, we've talked
about I'm a musician, right?
I've done some traveling.

(01:55:15):
I've You've seen some things andsome stuff.
I've been a roadhoer.
I've been a road hoe.
I've been everywhere, man.
Yeah.
Um, but you know, back then itwas really much more about the
outside.
And as you get older, you reallydo realize all that shit's gonna
droop, and you're left withwhat's inside.
So you really do start thinkingmore about the person, which I

(01:55:39):
think women figure out muchsooner than guys.
Yeah, yeah.
Um but they do on that I thinkthat wears off the thing that
you're talking about.
I I think one of the things, andsorry, we're gonna go back the
other way, ladies.
That every single relationshipI've been in since nope, every
every relationship I've everyserious relationship I've been

(01:56:01):
in for the past thirty-fiveyears.
Um every relationship you'veever been in.
Every major relationship, thatincludes all of them.
Okay, literally.
Um, for the last thirty-fiveyears, she has relied on me to
build her self-esteem up.
Sure.
Her mere presence builds myself-esteem up.

(01:56:25):
Right?
Absolutely.
It speaks to the way men loveand the way women love.
I I mean I think that you overtime can grow to a more
paternal, true, real friendshipkind of love.
Yeah.
Because I think that takes timeto develop.
Um but the fact that when wefirst get in a relationship, and

(01:56:48):
this doesn't have anything to dowith age, um you know, I'll walk
into well, one of the thingsthat women respond to is
confidence, right?
You cannot be down on yourselfand be confident.

SPEAKER_03 (01:57:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (01:57:02):
So women will gravitate towards confidence.
Okay, we don't look forconfidence in a woman.
We end up building it for themost part.
I guess that's true, I think,yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I I didn't really thoughtabout that.
Yeah, okay.
I I don't go out and look forthe most confident woman in the
room.

SPEAKER_04 (01:57:19):
No, you're right.
I mean, I I can even say to usean example, you know, on our
first day, Katie came in and wasjust glowing to me.
I mean, just right off the bat.

SPEAKER_05 (01:57:27):
And that's the thing though.

SPEAKER_04 (01:57:29):
The physical attraction is the instant is the
instant thing.

SPEAKER_05 (01:57:32):
But to me, like it goes beyond the physical
attraction.
I have, okay, musician, you'reon a stage.
You see all the eyes lookingback at you, right?
There might be a moreobjectively cuter girl.
But one's looking at you acertain way.
But the way that one over thereis looking at you.

SPEAKER_04 (01:57:49):
Which I believe is one of the that you meant.
Oh, for second marriage would bethat, right?

SPEAKER_05 (01:57:54):
What the hell was that?

SPEAKER_02 (01:57:56):
Is that a no I guess thinking too, because like if
you do meet someone that shedoes come across as confident,
deep down, you end up findingout she's wearing a mask.

SPEAKER_05 (01:58:09):
That that is exactly it.
There is no confidence there.
There it is almost a myth.
Yeah.
The female, the confidentfemale, and this is the thing
too, you also hear about bossbabes, right?
Okay, having been in thatcommunity.
A lot of the boss babes are theones who want to submit.
They want to let that down.
Well, you know.
It's a lot to carry to be thatconfident, to like yourself that

(01:58:31):
much.

SPEAKER_04 (01:58:33):
So you know, it's interesting is that there's a
movie, A Baby Girl.
Did you see it?
Yes.
That's exactly what that'sdoing.

SPEAKER_03 (01:58:39):
Yes.

SPEAKER_04 (01:58:40):
I mean, it goes to it goes to weird places.
Yeah.
But that is exactly thatscenario.
She's one of the most successfulwomen in the world, not
satisfied by her AntonioBrandeiros.
Pretty good looking guy.
Yeah.
And, you know, can't orgasm withhim and all that shit.
Yet she gets this young guy.
It is different.
And she, and I think I don'tknow the whole psychology behind
it, I don't pretend to, but thatis the scenario.

SPEAKER_05 (01:59:01):
It's the power transfer.
Yeah.
That is exactly what BDSM is allabout.
Right.
Power transfer.
And you might have, and I and Idon't I'm not disparaging
confident women.
Good for you for having done thework and truly being confident.
Yeah.
But those of you who are acting,you know you're acting.
Yeah.
And when you come into arelationship, you don't expect

(01:59:24):
to look in the mirror and do thehard work.
You expect your man to pick youup.
Do I look fat in these?
Has man has any man ever walkedout of the closet and said, Do
these jeans make my butt lookbig?
Maybe a gay man.
Maybe.

SPEAKER_03 (01:59:39):
No, I don't know.
That's okay.

SPEAKER_05 (01:59:40):
No, I I hadn't thought of that.
But I mean, funny, but also Butgenuinely, if if you do a sample
size.
I don't care if it's a hundredor more.
But everybody's going out to aparty that night, right?
Men get ready in about what?
I can be ready in like 10, 15minutes.

SPEAKER_04 (02:00:02):
I mean, I take like 45 minute showers, but once I'm
dressed, it's like two seconds.

SPEAKER_05 (02:00:05):
Well, to to include even getting dressed and all of
that stuff, even if it's areally like I've gotta tie the
bow tie and everything, half anhour.
Yeah.
I have had two Many post-partycleanup parties for all the

(02:00:28):
dresses on the floor.
I wore one suit.
And I'm not talking about orgy.
I'm talking about she dried on80 dresses and finally found one
that she would walk out of thehouse on, but then regretted, of
course, because it wasn'tperfect.
That whole standard, that's notimposed by us.

(02:00:50):
No.
Okay, then why are men blamedfor the standard of beauty?
I think that part is silly too.

SPEAKER_04 (02:00:59):
It is, but like I said, women are harder on
themselves than we are on them.

SPEAKER_05 (02:01:03):
I think women are hard on everybody, and they need
to realize that.

SPEAKER_04 (02:01:06):
Yeah, and I think Asha a lot do.
I really do.
Like I said, it's I don't thinkit's out there because the quiet
voice, the majority are notheard.
But I can tell you most women Iknow would exactly say that.
Katie would say that.

SPEAKER_02 (02:01:20):
I I know many who would.
I've ran situations too that youknow it took take take them
forever to find something towear.
And there's been plenty of timeswhere they finally found the
one.
We're about to walk out thedoor.
Oh, on second thought, I don'treally like it how it makes me
make my arms feel.
I'm gonna go check.
Son of a bitch!

SPEAKER_04 (02:01:40):
It's like at this point, you can wear a t-shirt
and sneakers.
I don't give a shit.
Get your ass out the door.
Yep.
Um, I will say, I just I guess Ihave to brag on my wife
constantly because I just wantto.
Um that woman knows her style sodamn well.
It does not take her long to getready.
That's good.
That woman knows her style.
That's awesome.

(02:02:00):
Um and I think part of that isbecause she's confident in her
in her physical beauty for themost part, but also I definitely
build that up in her for sure.
I mean, I I'm totally and therethere is a difference too, and
her and I talked about this too,is of appreciating her as a
person beauty and appreciatingher sexual beauty.

(02:02:21):
And that's a distinction that isimportant to her.
So it's like, I'm okay to makepurely sexual comments, but if I
only did that, that wouldn't beokay.
And actually, I do understandthat.
Because there are times that itneeds to be like, you just look
so gorgeous, and leave it atthat.
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (02:02:38):
Well, the root of that is she was born with her
sexuality.
Right.
She had to work hard at whoshe's become.
Right.
So I understand acknowledgingthat completely.
Yeah.
And I think any meatheaddouchebag dick that would just
catch Possilati in a social.
And there's plenty that do, butit's still not all men.
Right, right.

(02:02:59):
And that's that's the narrativethat I think we're trying to go
for on the sexual side ofthings.
Yes.
Understand we are the beingsthat we are, but we need to also
understand, as a whole, men,that she does want to be maybe
not objectified for what she'sbecome, but at least encouraged

(02:03:21):
in the idea that the woman thatyou've become is spectacular.
You are beautiful, you aregorgeous, you you amaze me in
the way you do X or whatever.
I mean, that's just the personinside needing that.
The sexual comments might besomewhat for her, but mostly
that's for us.
Oh, yeah.
It turns us on.

SPEAKER_04 (02:03:41):
Yeah.
Turns us the fuck on.
I love saying that stuff abouther.
It's like, oh, I'm I get toacknowledge that out like with
voice and even with gesturessometimes.
Yeah.
And that turns me the fuck onwell more than her, and that's
fine.

SPEAKER_05 (02:03:52):
Yeah.
Well, I you're making me think,okay, my first marriage, it got
to the point where I canremember her, and she wasn't
cooking, so I know it wasn'tthat, but she was in the kitchen
um and I walked up behind herand just gropped her.

SPEAKER_07 (02:04:08):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (02:04:10):
Getting shooed away for that.
It was literally not the onlything I ever did, but the fact
that it was a power move really.
I mean, ladies, if you want tokill a man's spirit, reject him
sexually.
Reject reject the way he triesto connect with you.
Because he's in a lot of times.

SPEAKER_02 (02:04:31):
But all right.
This is all you think about.
This is all I'm good for.

SPEAKER_04 (02:04:35):
Yep.
Okay, great segue.
Because this is one thing Idefinitely wanted to get to.
Okay.
So um the thing is, fuck thischair with no arms.
Did you really you want toswitch?

SPEAKER_05 (02:04:48):
No.
I don't care.
Fuck this chair.
It's comfortable, but I mean,every time I do this, I'm like,
oh, hey guys, what's up?
I've been noticing it's gonna befunny on the three.
This is our 3D episode.
Whoa.

SPEAKER_04 (02:05:03):
Um, all right.
But but one thing I want to getinto is that women's sexuality
is a superpower.
Okay.
I mean it absolutely is.
Come on.
Honestly, gentlemen, we knowwhat rules the world.
It is, because I think withoutthat.

(02:05:26):
And I don't even mean that init's gonna sound like I'm being
a fucking whatever, butmeathead.
But it's not really that.
I'm actually acknowledging thatfor women.
And it's like, okay, let me letme throw this out there.
So let me throw a couple ofthese out there, and I think
it's fair.
Like Alexis when she did herepisode.
Yeah.
I talked about how she did thatvery sexy selfie of herself in

(02:05:46):
the beginning.
But she said she used hersexuality knowingly, knowingly
to get people, most real, it'smostly men, I'm sure, to
subscribe to her Substack.
I asked her about thatspecifically on the episode.
But I know a shit ton of womentoo that look at women.

SPEAKER_05 (02:06:03):
Oh yeah.
That no, like not even inlesbian terms, but she's like,
hey, that's strength.
Wow, she is so pretty.

SPEAKER_04 (02:06:11):
Oh yeah.
And then of course they lookdown upon themselves for that.

SPEAKER_02 (02:06:14):
But like people in people in general are like, oh,
she's posting this.
What has she got to offer?
Click on the link.

SPEAKER_04 (02:06:20):
Exactly.
But when I asked her, because Iasked her point blank in the
episode, I said, were you areyou okay that that's what you
had to do to get clicks?
And she's well, I know I'm abeautiful woman, so I'm gonna
use that to my advantage.
Okay.

SPEAKER_05 (02:06:32):
Now I'm gonna use an idea for subscribership.

SPEAKER_02 (02:06:38):
Take that, Ryan.

SPEAKER_04 (02:06:39):
No, you know what I mean.
You know what I legitimatelytold Ryan.
I want to do a socialexperiment.

SPEAKER_05 (02:06:46):
Are we gonna do a whole 30-minute episode just
with a picture of his ass?

SPEAKER_04 (02:06:49):
No, I'm gonna superimpose his ass on my face.
No, actually, but no, what Ithink.

SPEAKER_05 (02:06:55):
Oh, if you could get AI to actually make it talk,
though, that would be awesome.

SPEAKER_01 (02:06:59):
Ask you a few questions.

SPEAKER_05 (02:07:00):
May I ask you a few questions?

SPEAKER_01 (02:07:03):
Do you have a mint?

SPEAKER_04 (02:07:04):
Do you have a mint?
Um, but um what I was getting atwith that is God, I love it.
You know, actually I had thejoke with Ryan.
I said, I want to do some TikTokposts where you say my script
and see if I start pulling inthe kind of because what's funny
is like I said, he's got like4,500 subscribers.
He's a beautiful man.

(02:07:25):
I'll just I'm gonna Ryan, thisis your episode, buddy.
I say all this to him in persontoo.
Actually, far uh more.
Yeah, yeah.
Um but what's funny is I legitwant to do because he's got like
4,500 subscribers, and all hedoes is lift weights and golf on
camera.
But I told him, I said, here Iam putting out substance and
have just under 400.

(02:07:46):
You're putting out your body andall this shit, not doing jack
shit to benefit anything.
And but what's funny is heacknowledges that.
He's like, I don't understand iteither, other than I'm sexy as
shit.
I'm like, okay, but he's owningthat right there.
He's owning his physicalwhatever.
Well I'm saying is I also um,like I said, Rachel, who's gonna

(02:08:06):
be on the podcast, I asked herthe same thing.
You and I we talked about thatat Bob Evits today.
Who we're sponsored by?
Um we're not.
We wouldn't want to be sponsoredby them.
They're on their way out.

unknown (02:08:17):
Probably.

SPEAKER_04 (02:08:18):
I don't think they're gonna be around at all.
Susie's gonna take him down.

SPEAKER_00 (02:08:21):
Susan, Cheryl, whatever the name.
Whatever it is.

SPEAKER_04 (02:08:25):
We got hit on by an uh elderly lady today.
Uh Tony was Tony loved it.
I know Tony was getting, I mean,her breasts were right in his
face.
That's how I know her name.
But um, which isn't it, youknow, I was talking about, you
know, Rachel and I said, I'm notgonna talk about much because
she's gonna do an episode ormaybe five with all the things

(02:08:45):
she wants to talk about.
But she talked about how, youknow, she's obviously in a very
beautiful woman, you would sayso too.
Yeah, but she talks about howher beauty might get her in the
door, but her brain is what'sgonna keep her there.
So what I'm saying is you canleverage even your beauty,
mostly female, because I thinkthat's just easier for them, but

(02:09:07):
you can leverage your beauty forfor um, I guess good what am I
trying to say, prof uh gets youin the door somewhere, but then
that shouldn't be what keeps youthere.

SPEAKER_02 (02:09:20):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (02:09:21):
And I think honestly, Rachel even talked
about how that is very insecurefor her because she doesn't want
to feel like, oh, I got this jobbecause I'm hot.
Right.
And I'm keeping this job becausepromoted exactly because oh,
this general, or not general, Idon't know what level this job
is, but she's like, thissuperior wants to see my ass all
day.
So that's why I'm gettingpromoted.
And that is something she'sterrified of as a in the army.

SPEAKER_05 (02:09:43):
And I mean, okay, so the thing you're referencing, pr
pretty privilege.
It's an interesting thing, youknow all the terms for
everything.
I spent too much time on TikTok,apparently.
Um, but no, okay, so you getthrough the door because of your
external, but the fact that yougot there sets you at less than

(02:10:05):
zero inside your own head.
True.
Because now you feel like, well,I have to prove that I actually
am here.
Some people cannot prove.
Some people are always gonna bethat person trying to chase
that, right, and they're alwaysgonna rely on their looks.
Right.
And if they can't use looks,it's that blue hair screaming

(02:10:27):
thing about how we have to makethings fair and we have to and
we all know that it's no longerfair.
Right.
That you know, some of thatlevel of feminism has gone to we
don't want to be equals, we wantto be superior.
Yeah.
And that pretty privilege is atthe center of some of that.
Sure it is.
Because once they get there,they don't want to be found out.

(02:10:49):
Right.
And the only way to do that isto keep you feeling less than.

SPEAKER_04 (02:10:54):
So No, and one thing that one phrase that Rachel said
a lot when I was talking to heris that she wants to get to the
top looking in the eye, not onher knees.
I thought that was a really neatquote.
That was a really she came upwith that, I think herself.
So I want to get to the toplooking him in the eye, not on
my knees.
And by the way, I think the wayshe looks, she could get, and

(02:11:14):
she even said herself, sheprobably could get a lot farther
if she did it on her knees.
She said that herself.
But she's got enough integrity,and probably.

SPEAKER_05 (02:11:23):
Okay, but the thing you're literally talking about,
okay, where strength is ourbeast, beauty is there.
That's really what I'm saying.
And the fact that she has thediscipline.
Yeah.
She's yep.
Okay, that I respect.
Yeah.
That to me would be a safeperson.
That would be a safe woman tohave a conversation with.

SPEAKER_04 (02:11:44):
Yes.

SPEAKER_05 (02:11:45):
And I might actually even be able to be an emotional
being in her presence becauseshe does have the discipline to
not fall into the things thatare natural to the quote
species.
You know, she that I respect.
Having that kind of disciplineis awesome.

SPEAKER_04 (02:12:06):
Yeah.
And I I Katie's very much thatway, too.
So I mean, that's the thing, isthat there are they are out
there.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (02:12:12):
All you all you middle disciplined moms, come
on, let's speak up.
I'm serious.

SPEAKER_04 (02:12:17):
I mean, that's the problem, is is the the moderate
people just aren't allowed andwell, we're comfortable.
You get comfortable.
And are the are these people umon the extremes um is it because
they want to identify with agroup?
Is it because they legitimatelyhave idealism?
Do they just want attention?
Because those of us in themiddle are just kind of like I
mean what is worth fighting for?

(02:12:38):
It's in the middle.

SPEAKER_05 (02:12:39):
I mean, there are podcasters who even have blue
hair.
Yeah.
Like that's of course you wantthe attention of it.
You're not doing it for truesocial justice.
I think there's a there's apoint to that, true.
Yeah, I do.
But I think that that thatdoesn't know a no agenda even.
I think that's period.

SPEAKER_04 (02:13:00):
I mean, well, and I could say, you know, there
there's certain things, uh notto whatever here, but there's
certain things I've done withthis on purpose to make sure the
minute the message isn'tcorrupted.
I do not I've been offeredsponsorships.
Right.
I do not take them.

SPEAKER_07 (02:13:15):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (02:13:16):
And honestly, I don't know what the potential is
for all that.
I I know I've been offered somethings, but I've chosen not to
take it for many reasons.
One of them is that this isabout the message.

SPEAKER_07 (02:13:28):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (02:13:28):
It's not about anything beyond that.
And honestly, that probably isto my detriment often because I
don't know what the potentialfor money is for this.
But I'm sorry, when you get toomuch money involved in things,
what are people going toquestion now?
Oh, you're only you're onlydoing that for that.
Well, it becomes someone else'smouthpiece.
And fuck that shit.

SPEAKER_06 (02:13:47):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (02:13:47):
Because I've interviewed one person who
absolutely struggles with that.
And it's something that thisperson's not overly comfortable
with.
But for self-sustaining life andall that stuff, they have to do
it.

SPEAKER_05 (02:14:00):
And I don't think any of us fault that person for
it.
I don't, actually.
But once you know that, itcompletely taints.
And by the way, they only didthat once.
But it completely taints themessage.

SPEAKER_04 (02:14:11):
It does, and that's exactly why.
So, you know, and uh here's theother thing is that um I always
name drop this person, MichelleHammer, who's a schizophrenic
content.
You've heard me drop her a lot.
She did this video on TikTokwhere she she's she's getting
mad at people for thinking thatwe're putting mental illness
content out there for attention.

(02:14:34):
It's like attention for thecause.
This is incredibly uncomfortableto put out there.
I know we're getting off topic,but she is reminding me of that.

SPEAKER_05 (02:14:43):
It's like, but it's it I guess it goes into the
men's issue is an uncomfortabletopic.
You're told to shut up.
So good.

SPEAKER_04 (02:14:52):
Bringing it back in.
Yeah, they can bring it back in.
But it it the things that areuncomfortable to talk about are
actually not for our attention.
It's it's not.
Oh, sorry.
It's for people that aresuffering that don't have to be
a few.
And that's my voice.

SPEAKER_05 (02:15:05):
And that you're not alone.
And that you're not alone.

SPEAKER_04 (02:15:08):
And unfortunately, I mean, okay, let's go ahead and
uh go this route because you youknow that one content creator,
that guy, who's a life coach.
You remember this?

SPEAKER_05 (02:15:18):
Oh, I thought of him earlier in the podcast.

SPEAKER_04 (02:15:20):
Oh, I was gonna bring him up.
I had it on the docket on thedocket.
I mean, he he he's uh he's suchan evolved No, I wanted because
I thought I wanted to bring himup because it actually is kind
of it is related to this,honestly.
Um because I I've got somewhereI want to go with that.
But I I want you to talk abouthow you know what he was saying,
because you can probably voiceall this better than me, and

(02:15:43):
what you were saying and how youwere countered.
Yeah.
You were shut the fuck down, andyou were absolutely in the
right.

SPEAKER_05 (02:15:51):
Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 (02:15:52):
Yeah, you would know this.

SPEAKER_05 (02:15:53):
So there was a there was a content creator who
created a video, and uh he's gota pretty big following.
He literally just I mean, he heexpanded on it, but he started
by leaning into the camera andgoing, sex is not a need.
That was really the whole post.
That was the whole post, butthen of course he made.

(02:16:16):
And so the conversation I putout there is, okay, but from
which perspective?
I can understand, and I havespoken with many females who
have said, Well, I you know, Icould live without it.
I really could.
I know a couple who I can't, asa man, and I've spoken to
several men.
I agree to that.
It is absolutely at our coreprogramming.

(02:16:39):
We are programmed to procreateand by think that way.
And it's and it's yes, theprocreation that is the core of
it.
That is what we're talking aboutis procreation, but we are
delivered procreation via oursexual intent.
What what we see as sexy, wewant to possess and then

(02:17:01):
procreate with, right?
So it's a whole process, but tosay sex is not a need.
And I even countered in part ofit by saying let's talk about
hierarchy of needs.
If you look at the veryfoundational base of Maslow's
hierarchy of needs, sex isincluded.
It is part of.

(02:17:21):
And these idiots actually can't,and fuck you, now you can't
censor me.
Idiots.
Thank you.
That's why I wanted you to bringit up.
I'll probably tag that fucker.
Please do.
You fucking piece of shit.
No, I was mad about it too.
Because the thing of it is, isif you're gonna say that, say
that it's a perspective.

unknown (02:17:40):
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (02:17:41):
Thank you.
And that goes because any mencan understand that it's a
perspective of certain people,but to say blanket it's not a
need, really honestly, istelling a large majority of men
you're wrong.
Everything you feel is wrong.
Yeah.
The fact that you're so upsetabout it, that's stupid, because

(02:18:03):
it's not a need.
Well, you know he was panderinganyway.
Of course we know he waspandering.
And and the fucking idiotresponses I got, oh my God,
people trying to shame me intocheering for sexual assault.
Yeah, they did.
Cheering for You got ridiculous.
Oh, it was so stupid.
Like Then you called me or didyou call me after that?

(02:18:25):
Oh, I sent you the link to itand said, look at these dumb
guys.
Now I was reading the comment.
I'm just like, I was like Theywere eviscerating me.
It was rough.
They were trying really hard todo.

SPEAKER_04 (02:18:35):
They were making you look like a predator to shut me
up.

SPEAKER_05 (02:18:38):
And I just kept going back.
And finally you gave up.
Well, why wouldn't you?
What I said is you cannotcounter the fact that okay.
Maslow's hierarchy of needs,right?
This pyramid, it was createdwith sex in it.
It was later on changed toprocreation.

(02:19:02):
Are any of us in this fuckingroom stupid enough to not know
what procreation is?

SPEAKER_04 (02:19:08):
Censorship.
Unnecessary censorship.
It's it's on aliving versussuicide.

SPEAKER_05 (02:19:20):
And do you know these idiot fucks actually got
out there and like, oh, I thinkwe're fine.
Well, no, you're saying I thinkit's fine if you don't
procreate, Tony, but everybodyelse is gonna keep having what?
Sex.
Fuck you.
You're idiots, you're completeand total utter fucking morons.
They are.
You want to have an argumentthat you can't defend.

(02:19:42):
So you start picking on theperson because you think you can
get in the fields.
And yeah, I'm upset by it.
You were.
I am absolutely upset that logicand fact and reality is
non-existent to you.
To them.
That you literally can fightthose things and feel empowered

(02:20:03):
and righteous.

SPEAKER_04 (02:20:04):
Here's the thing you know who was mostly countering
you was men.
Did you look at the profilesthat were countering you?
It was also men.

SPEAKER_05 (02:20:11):
Well, no, it was there was a good I still get
messages of fucking About that?

SPEAKER_02 (02:20:16):
Loser ass is it still active, everything's still
up there?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (02:20:19):
Yeah.
Yeah, I got one maybe a week ortwo ago.
But I also still get hearts frompeople hearting my message.

SPEAKER_04 (02:20:27):
Yeah.
But you know what?
Who's having the strength to saysomething with you?
Right.
Well that's the thing.
Is anybody commenting likecommenting?
Very few.
It's like, okay, again.

SPEAKER_05 (02:20:40):
Yeah.
No, they full on painted me tobe a predator rapist.
Yeah, they did.

SPEAKER_04 (02:20:45):
In about every way, but just saying it.
The words.
Yeah, no, they were very And ifTikTok wouldn't censor that
shit, it would have been onthere.

SPEAKER_05 (02:20:52):
Well, they were very tech savvy or TikTok savvy.
Yeah, they were.
They got around it.
How they well, the SAabbreviations saying predatory
actions and grape and all theseother things.
It's like, come on.
You literally I think they needto be graped in the math.
Oh my God.
Tie into the radiator.

(02:21:13):
Whitest kids you know.
Whitest kids you know.
Look it up, folks.
Have you seen this?
It's the best skit in the world.
I fucking love those guys.
They never should have beentaken off the air.
Oh, that's awful.
That was some funny shit, folks.
Um, but yeah, I think I thinkit's very I don't know.

(02:21:34):
Like, what is it for comedicvalue to say you're um an an
enlightened person?
Like that is go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 (02:21:45):
No, what I'm gonna say is the difference between
comedy and that bullshit iscomedy is meant to make light of
those things.
When people take that shitseriously like that, when he
came off like, no, this is whatI believe, and it's that level
of just ignorance and stupidity.

SPEAKER_05 (02:22:05):
But I can I can even have a conversation and agree to
disagree with somebody whobelieves something I don't
believe.
Sure.
Yeah.
But when you resort to characterassassination and straw man
arguments, get me to shut up?

SPEAKER_04 (02:22:20):
Like and that's the thing is you're only you're only
building the fight.
You're only making you matter.

SPEAKER_05 (02:22:25):
Which is the whole culture.
But if you go back and read thatwhole thread, I literally
dismantle and call out everysingle thing they're doing.
They don't respond to thosethings.
They just keep calling names.
Oh, yeah.
That's all it is.
But that that oh God.
I know.
I see the vein in your head,bro.

SPEAKER_04 (02:22:41):
Like, I'm serious.
I knew that would get you.
Oh but it it it goes.

SPEAKER_05 (02:22:45):
Hey, cash me outside, fucker.

SPEAKER_04 (02:22:48):
No, but what's about that?
How about that?
But what's interesting with thatis the misconception, let's
let's leave that the knee partout of it.
The misconception that men onlywant sex for sex's sake.
Because I can tell you, I haveno like we said earlier, the
attractiveness to other women,yeah.
I mean, it is a thing.
Like, but I have no desire to bewith anybody but my wife.

(02:23:11):
And I need connection for sex,and that is an expression of
love.
I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_05 (02:23:17):
So let me broaden that discussion for you.
Because you know that I havebeen in relationships that are
not completely monogamous,right?
Yes.
All right.
Now, uh and openly so, not likedeception.
We're talking about having apartner and an addition.
Right.
So the there is a differencebetween connected intimate sex

(02:23:42):
and sex.
Yeah.
A big difference.
And this is not just a maleperspective.
I have talked with multiplepartners about this.
There is a very real difference,and both sexes want that.
Now, I'm not saying everyperson, just as I would not say
all men.

(02:24:05):
It it is a very individualthing, but you cannot say
blanket that it is not bothsexes that want that.
And you honestly, if you needany more proof, if men are the
ones who cheat, who are wefucking?
And amen.

SPEAKER_04 (02:24:29):
That is a good point.
What I want to say too is menare commonly the ones who are
labeled that that's what weneed.
It's just purely sex.
We're we're labeled that's whatwe want.
But it's not.
But it's not.
But you look at women, I don'tsee a lot of women labeled as
you just want to fuck this guy.
Well, because there's socialstigma on being a hoe.

(02:24:50):
But they're not okay with thatstigma.
And we're not, I mean, I knowplenty that we're hoes.
Fair enough.

SPEAKER_07 (02:24:58):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (02:24:59):
But what I'm saying with that is to corrupt
something that is a connection,it is an expression of love.
It is all of those things.

SPEAKER_02 (02:25:07):
It's so much deeper than just Yeah, I need an
intimate connection and vibe.
And I need that.
Yeah.
Because you've experienced both.

SPEAKER_04 (02:25:16):
Is that okay to say?

SPEAKER_02 (02:25:17):
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean you have both.
It doesn't feel like that.
Mentally and physically doesn'tfeel the same as if you don't
have that connection versus ifyou do have that connection.
Yeah.
I prefer the connection.

SPEAKER_04 (02:25:34):
3D versus 2D.
I've only I've only been withKatie, and and here's the thing
uh too, is that I've had peopleask me, and I've thought about
this myself too, is that youknow I've never experienced
anything with anyone else.
Nobody.
You and Ryan.
Well, only his ass.
Oh.
But he was asleep one night andhe doesn't know what's that
goes.
I get off he didn't one night.

(02:25:56):
Um with my dick um under theblanket.
Oh, I thought we were in theslow jerk, whitest kids.

SPEAKER_02 (02:26:07):
Um you gotta get your shoulder into it.

SPEAKER_05 (02:26:12):
Um whitest kids you know.
Yeah.
Look him up.

SPEAKER_04 (02:26:18):
Um But what I was gonna say is um, you know, she's
the only person I've ever beenwith, and there's people who've
asked me, like, do you regretnot being with someone else?
There are aspects of that, sure.
Because of the exploration sideof it and and and
experimentation and all thatstuff.
But a lot of people that I'vetalked to about that, which I

(02:26:39):
don't know anybody else who'sbeen exclusive of one person
their entire life.
I don't know another person.
It's pretty rare.
Katie's also that way, too.

SPEAKER_05 (02:26:48):
But most of them will say, most of them say And I
will note I will also note, too,as a footnote to that, I know
people who have been married 60and 70 years that have not been
with just one person.

SPEAKER_04 (02:27:01):
Fair enough.
Fair enough.
But what I was gonna say isoften when I've had that
conversation, they ask me that,and I say, yeah, there's there's
curiosities about it, buthonestly, I think that's a
strength.
A lot of them have said, I wishthat was the way it was for me.
I'm not saying there's a rightperspective on that, because I
actually I get both sides ofthat, truly.
But I will say it it left out somany external complications.

(02:27:26):
There was a a thrill to explorewith the one person.

SPEAKER_05 (02:27:30):
And I think if you if you if you look at the
emotional aspect of sex fromboth a male and female
perspective, yeah, I think thatthe most romanticized version of
that is one man, one woman,that's it.
Yeah.
That's both sides.
I honestly think that theemotional That's the most

(02:27:52):
romanticized version.
I I think that that if if youask somebody what the perfect
version would be in their head,it more often than not is gonna
it's gonna have mostly thataspect to it.

SPEAKER_04 (02:28:04):
Right, right.
And I will say, you know, I Iwill not name this couple
because I don't I shouldn't, butI do know a couple that were
married and you know the mancheated on the woman and it
broke up the relationship andall this stuff.
That family demonized himcompletely.
I know your friend hascomplications with that
situation, so I'm not gonnainvalidate any of that.

(02:28:26):
I will not, because I knowthat's a that's a plethora of
issues.
But I will say it was not aboutsex.
What?
For for that the cheating wasnot, it's never about sex,
truly.
Most often, no.
That well, okay, fair enough.
Most of again, we don't need ablank statement, but even in his

(02:28:47):
case, and I know others, I don'tknow about your friends.

SPEAKER_02 (02:28:51):
No, I'll I'll let you get to your point.

SPEAKER_04 (02:28:53):
But what I was gonna say is um in his case, he was
denied, he was rejected forthat, which as you said earlier,
that's one of the worst thingsyou can do to a man is that they
reject that core expression oflove and affection.

(02:29:14):
And I know there were deeperissues going on in that
relationship too, but that iswhy he did it.
There was no conversation aroundit, it was just you don't need
that, you you don't just getthat shit out of here.
You know what I'm saying?
And that's why he got itelsewhere.
Right.
They divorced and he ended upmarrying that woman.

(02:29:35):
But what I will say is I thinkhe looks back and says, his
first wife was a much better fitfor him.
But his current wife willprovide that side of it, and
there's still a connectionthere.
But I'm sorry, it is important.
That goes back to the need sideof it.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (02:29:55):
Yeah.

unknown (02:29:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (02:29:56):
I I um yeah.
It may but it also made me thinkof the whole um a couple of
different things.
The 80-20 principle.
You're in a relationship andyou're with somebody and you've
got 80% of it.
Which 80%, I think all of us canagree, is that's that's a pretty
good portion.
If you have the you know,perfect woman and you've got 80%

(02:30:17):
of that woman that you've alwayswanted, yeah, you're doing
pretty well.
But you get used to that 80, andso you start looking for the 20.
Right.
And you find somebody who's got20.
Yes, I know what you're talkingabout.
And then you leave to go getthat extra twenty.
And then you miss your eighty.
But now you're without theeighty.

SPEAKER_04 (02:30:33):
Right.
So it I think that's verysimilar to what happened to the
gym, the guy I was.

SPEAKER_05 (02:30:37):
Very probably.
It it doesn't lend to as muchdepth.
Right.
But also, ladies, um, you wonderwhy she's not as pretty as you.
That's why.
Because you hear that all thetime.
Well, how could he go cheat withthat heifer?
You do hear that a lot,actually.
And it's that's why.

(02:30:58):
Because she provided that 20.
And and and to go back to myfriend, tell me it's not a need.

SPEAKER_04 (02:31:09):
If it'll ruin literal good relationships.

SPEAKER_05 (02:31:12):
Well, and if you'll make the as a man, the illogical
choice of this okay, I'm justgonna be graphic about it.
Go ahead.
I'm gonna take this ugly heiferbecause she'll fuck me versus
the one who gave me children,but denies me, puts me down,
hasn't her great desires.

(02:31:34):
Doesn't yeah, all of thosethings, right?
Yeah.
I'll go be with the ugly heiferwho looks up at me like I'm a
god over all the things that aregood for me.
Yeah.
And I don't get to see my kidsnow.
Yeah.
You know, and that's not a truestory.
This is not true.
Like, this is not my life.
No, let's do it.
It is the generalized version ofthis, but this is what you

(02:31:56):
always hear.
And that's why.
You want to know why he'sstupping the you know, house
cleaning lady that doesn't speakEnglish that, you know, maybe
looks a little more like Cartmanthan you would think he would
deserve.
That's why.
Cartman than J-Lo.

(02:32:16):
Whoa.

SPEAKER_04 (02:32:17):
Anyway.

SPEAKER_03 (02:32:18):
No, but but you guys and think about bug.

SPEAKER_04 (02:32:22):
But like, seriously, like there there that is just
such a unfortunate I mean that'sinsane.

SPEAKER_05 (02:32:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (02:32:30):
Everybody to just simply label it as not a need,
and unfortunately, I as in thatparticular relationship and and
even others, you know, to dothat is absolutely going to
cause that.
And what I'm gonna say is thatdoesn't justify it because that
needs to be a conversation onboth sides, by the way.

SPEAKER_05 (02:32:46):
Yeah, no, cheating should cheating is never
justified.
I don't care either side.
No female.
It's not.
Don't fucking cheat.
If you need to do that, have theconversation breaks up your
relationship.
You weren't meant to be in thatfucking relationship if it's
that important.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 (02:33:01):
If you're thinking about it, get the fuck out.
Like have a conversation or getthe fuck out.

SPEAKER_04 (02:33:06):
Exactly.
Yeah, I was gonna say, I mean,because there are a lot of
things that can complicate thatwhole situation.
But I will say both sides haveto be confident enough in each
other to come together and say,hey, this is a problem, these is
why this need is not being metat all.
And this is honestly, this isthe desire I'm having.
I really am so tempted to goseek it elsewhere because you're

(02:33:28):
not capable of providing it.

SPEAKER_05 (02:33:30):
And it's like do you fucking shadow work people?

SPEAKER_02 (02:33:32):
And that's what fucking sucks with my with my
friend situation.

SPEAKER_05 (02:33:35):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (02:33:36):
Wasn't told any of that.
No communication, no, hey, Ineed this, I need that.
It was still I love you everyday.
I know.

SPEAKER_04 (02:33:44):
And then it's like, I'm telling you, like, if if
couples can come together andhave the conversation, let's say
there's an impasse.
This person doesn't want to doit.
I'll tell you what that's whatI'm saying.
This person just cannot do it,can't provide that, or isn't
capable of whatever this persondesperately needs it and won't
live without it.
There can be an amicableunderstanding.

(02:34:06):
It can happen.
Certainly.
Certainly.
It's like, okay, then this is anincompatibility that is
insurpassable for both of us.
And this is going to build upresentment so much on both sides
that it becomes hatred.
You can you can identify thatissue and kind of work out the
details of it before it becomeescalates to a level where that
relationship is not salvageableon any level.

(02:34:27):
And a good couple is capable ofthat.

SPEAKER_02 (02:34:31):
My friend's had plenty of opportunities over the
years that he could have beenthe one that cheated.
Because he wasn't being met withneeds.

SPEAKER_04 (02:34:38):
Most of the time, both could.

SPEAKER_02 (02:34:40):
He was presented opportunities to cheat, and he
could have taken them.

SPEAKER_04 (02:34:45):
And there's immense strength in not doing it, by the
way.
That is that discipline you'retalking about.

SPEAKER_05 (02:34:50):
Exactly.
You know how much disciplinethat fucking takes?
For for both sides.
For both sides?

SPEAKER_02 (02:34:54):
And she never knew about it.

SPEAKER_05 (02:34:56):
That conversation never took place.
And I I want to add to that too,as someone further down that
path, having been someone whohas not only been cheated on,
but cheated on, the the pain isthe same.
I mean, it might be a differentperspective you're experiencing,

(02:35:18):
but if you really truly caredabout that person you cheated
on, which is why thatcommunication piece you're
talking about, which I want tobring a point up about, if if if
there was genuine care betweenthe two of you, the pain is the
same.
So while the friend, uh, youknow, friend's wife might be in

(02:35:42):
complete denial about it, right?
Trust that that crown of thornsis being worn.
It may not ever reach your ears,but I guarantee, I guarantee
something that's painful.
The suffering is the same.
You know what you did to yourfamily.

(02:36:02):
And especially that becomes apattern.
That's a pattern.
It can be.

SPEAKER_04 (02:36:07):
This is the thing.
I've heard too many people sayonce a cheater, always a
cheater.
Okay, I've heard that too.
Not in the I mean, in yourfriend's case, that is how it
was.

SPEAKER_02 (02:36:14):
Yes, in my friend's case, yes.

SPEAKER_04 (02:36:16):
But you're right.
That's absolutely patterned.
You're kind of proof of that, amI correct?

SPEAKER_05 (02:36:20):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (02:36:21):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (02:36:21):
Yeah.
Having been the one who cheated,yeah.
I don't I I have theconversations now.

unknown (02:36:27):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (02:36:27):
That's the thing.
You learn from that.
I know who I am.

unknown (02:36:30):
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (02:36:31):
And what you know that you're not afraid to speak
up for.
But this is the thing.
The growth from being cheater isunderstanding what you owe your
partner.
Okay, that's that's a neatperspective.
Regardless of gender.
That's a neat perspective.
What you owe your partner to bein a relationship, it's why
there's never a justificationfor cheating.

(02:36:54):
Right.
Ever.
And it's and it's why, like Isay, having having the unique
perspective of both sides ofbeing cheated on and cheating,
it it is not okay.
When you cheat on okay, let mespeak from that perspective.
When you cheat on someone, ifyou genuinely cared about that

(02:37:17):
person.
Which you did.
Right.
Yeah, which I did.
Um you understand because youlive it, especially if you try
to work it out.
And there's just no live theshame of it, and you
internalize, and you start tofeel completely worthless,
self-imposed, but then there'salso the little times when

(02:37:40):
they're like, Yeah, but therewas that one time you and it's
never gonna go away.
Yeah.
Ever.
So, no reason to cheat onsomebody because if you cheat on
somebody, you're done.
I'm sorry, even as somebody whoworks in therapy, right?
Mental health.
You're never getting over it.
I don't think it ever goes away.

(02:38:00):
I think you can come to anagreement on it, but if but if
one person can't accept it,you're done.
You are done.
And learning that as the personwho cheats, yeah, you're not
left with many options.
You thought you had all theoptions.
Right.
You took advantage of one ofthem and you lost them all.

(02:38:21):
Yeah, you're right.
You're right.
So to see those kinds ofperspectives and understand
there's never there's never areason.
Right.
Okay, if you meet somebody, youfall in love, you're absolutely
head over heels with thisperson.
Maybe it's not the first date,right?
Right.
Don't bring this up on the firstdate.
No, no.
But you have to talk to thatperson and say, hey, what would

(02:38:41):
you think if I if I like you'reright.
And and if she counters with,well, I kind of like there's
there's room to work.
Right, right.
But if she says uh no, or hesays, uh no, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (02:39:00):
There's nothing to work with.

SPEAKER_05 (02:39:01):
You you then you have to decide is this person
someone I really truly genuinelylove and can be the one and only
with.

SPEAKER_04 (02:39:11):
And that's exactly right, because it it goes beyond
love, it's compatibility.
There are plenty of people thatlove each other deeply but are
not compatible.
Agreed.
They should not be together.
No.
First wife.
Right, okay, fair enough.
But then okay, so this leads meto do a bit of a thing.
So you don't grow apart, you'resupposed to grow together.

(02:39:33):
Right.
And I was on YouTube, and youknow, I've seen these ads all
the damn time for um, you know,this this hotline you call that,
oh, uh, call this hotline andyou'll know if your person's
cheating on you.

SPEAKER_02 (02:39:45):
Oh, yeah, I've seen those.

SPEAKER_04 (02:39:46):
What?
Have you not seen that?
They're everywhere.
They're on TikTok everywhere.
It's like if you suspect yourpartner of cheating, it's always
a fucking woman.
There's never a man dialing thephone.
It's isn't it always a woman?
Always always a woman.
Oh.

SPEAKER_05 (02:40:00):
Where they come up, yeah, they call like you can
call from another number.

SPEAKER_04 (02:40:04):
What text?
No, there's that, and thenthere's a whole thing.
Yeah, I don't know what thefucking thing even goes.
And then you can like see theirtext and like who they've been
contacting.
Plug in their number andirritation pop up.
Here's the thing, and that'swhat irritates the fuck out of
me about it.
If you're that insecure.

SPEAKER_05 (02:40:23):
You either need to have the conversation or get the
fuck out.
Well, okay, so I have beenavoiding bringing this up, and
I'm sorry if you have a thing,I'll make this really short.
It'll look like you wanted tospeak.

SPEAKER_02 (02:40:33):
No, no, no.

SPEAKER_05 (02:40:34):
Let's let's acknowledge in this episode that
men and women communicatedifferently.
Men are very direct.
Yeah.
That is how we we have a fact,we want your ears to hear the
fact.
Women are indirect.
They have a fact or a feeling,and they're going to paint you a
picture so that you canunderstand all the nuances of,

(02:40:57):
but the actual topic, especiallyif it's a hard topic, is not
addressed.

SPEAKER_04 (02:41:04):
Not directly.
Yeah, you're right.
There's dancing around it,there's there's touching on
aspects, but not getting to theroot of it.
Absolutely.
100%.

SPEAKER_05 (02:41:12):
If you ask a man what time it is, he's gonna tell
you what time it is.
If you ask a woman what time itis, she's gonna tell you, well,
the gears are turning, and thisone turns that gear, and this
one, and then the big hand, andthen the there's this idea that
if I tell you enough informationabout it You'll get you'll get
the and I think even thatsometimes I I'm I'm a man, so

(02:41:36):
what the hell do I know?
I'm guessing at this.
I think a lot of thatcommunication style is based in
insecurity.
Of course it is.
Because instead of stating adirect fact, you say everything
around it and hope you kind ofcovered everything.
You know, like if I ask yousomething direct and somebody

(02:41:57):
starts describing all thesethings to me, I'm like, why are
you lying to me?
Why are you putting all thisother stuff?

SPEAKER_04 (02:42:02):
You know what's interesting?
Are you you good if I Yeah, goahead.
Okay, because I want to commenton that because, okay, you know
I'm an ungodly, painfully directperson.
Oh, you're ungodly.
Yeah, it's uncomfortable formost people.
Um, you're probably two of thepeople it's it's not.
Um but it um I know like there'scertain people I talk to that I
want to get to depth of things.

(02:42:23):
They don't mean me there.
My approach to try to get thesepeople there is not to change
the directness, and I learnedthis in therapy, by the way.
It's just be just as direct, buttry to come from every fucking
angle.
It's like I'll be fuckingdirect, but I'm gonna come at it
this way.
You don't get it there, okay.
I'm gonna try to prod you fromthis angle.
And it's like you're just asdirect, but you're approaching

(02:42:46):
it from different perspectives,trying to just nudge them in
whatever direction.
So I guess what you're saying ismaybe women do that, but don't
actually want to get there's notactually substance to it.
Is that what you're kind ofsaying?
Or I'm not as much direct as aproblem.

SPEAKER_02 (02:43:01):
I'm not saying what'd you say?
That's what your question,that's how I took it.
What your question was.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (02:43:08):
I'm I'm not saying that there's not substance to
it.
I'm saying not the right word.
It's nuanced in the sense thatit is not direct.
If if you said, hey, hand methat drum over there, I'm gonna
pick up the drum, I'm gonna handyou that drum.
Right.
If the the the female way mightbe too, well, how would you like

(02:43:30):
me to hand you the drum?
Would you do you do you need itthis way or something?
Which one's the drum?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (02:43:35):
Or that I can't believe you just which one's the
drum.
Is that the symbol of the drum?

SPEAKER_05 (02:43:41):
But but that's the thing, is it's more detail
oriented, not topicallyoriented.

SPEAKER_04 (02:43:48):
Yeah, I agree.
And and I will say I I have I'vemet Go ahead.

SPEAKER_05 (02:43:53):
But that's base programming.
Yeah, yeah, it is.
And I don't know if it's the waywe're raised or the way the
actual brain is made.
That's the part I gotta figureout.
Well, I don't I there'sobviously we're built
differently, is is No, there'sdefinitely structural
differences.
There are structuraldifferences, male and female
brain.

SPEAKER_04 (02:44:10):
Brain in more than just body, like it goes down to
also brain functionality and allthat.
We we know hormones and all thatshit.
It's very we are completelydifferent.
And it's okay to accept thatthere are core differences we
have and strengths we can playon in different genders to come
together to become more of apower together.

(02:44:30):
You know what I'm saying?
I guess that's the wholefreaking thing of this episode,
really, is these are thestruggles from a man's
perspective.
That's important.

SPEAKER_07 (02:44:38):
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (02:44:39):
But we'd love to have not the whole story.
It's not the whole story, itnever will be because we are a
separate species.
From women, we really are, andthat's okay.
You women have strengths that wewill not have.
The the nurturing nature of awoman, I here's possessed.
I want to use this example, andI think it's a great one.

(02:45:00):
So that's gonna seem random atfirst, but it absolutely hits
this point.
So, you know, obviously we havea son, Max, and at night, um,
Max will wake up out of nowherecrying.
So Katie, out of nowhere, islike, no problem, goes over
there and and you know, hugs himand all this stuff.
Or like, you know, holds him toget him back to sleep.

(02:45:21):
Okay, and it's not that Iwouldn't do that.
So I don't want it to sound likethat.
But here's the thing I want toget to is okay, so we have it we
have the new puppy Mickey.
I'm getting somewhere for this.
So we have the new puppy Mickey,he's like eight months old, and
he needs out in the middle ofthe night and wakes me up.
I am ungodly livid that I haveto get my ass out of bed to let

(02:45:41):
this dog out.
Okay, so what I'm saying hereis, but he relies on me to do
that.
I'm livid about it.
That woman, no anger, nonothing, the desire to comfort
that child surpasses thecomplete inconvenience of being
woken up at 3 a.m.
That is not how I would handlethat.

(02:46:01):
I I mean I go do it and Iwouldn't be like mad as I am at
this dog.
He's my son, but you think Iwouldn't be grumbling on my way
over there?
100% I would be.

SPEAKER_07 (02:46:11):
Okay.

SPEAKER_05 (02:46:12):
What?
You it's the exact opposite ofand okay, so I well more feeding
in the nurturing nature of awoman versus.
Yeah, and postpartum played arole in this.
But I worked we worked out asituation where my wife would go
to bed around eight or nine, andI would be up with him all

(02:46:37):
night.
And I would get to go to bedaround four or five, whatever.
Like if I if I laid him downaround three thirty, I was good
to go to bed around four once Iknew he was down.
Right.
Because he would sleep foranywhere from an hour and a
half, two, three hoursinitially, right?
Yeah.
It was and is probably one ofthe greatest things I think I've

(02:46:59):
ever done in my life.
And it is probably one of themore personal things I it is
hard to talk about without therebeing emotion in my voice.
But I remember getting to go in,and I say it that way, getting
to go in and rock him back tosleep and sing him songs and
have that connection with him.
I think men are very muchcapable of doing that.

(02:47:24):
I think what ends up happeningthough is that it's not
necessarily our first thought,and I will say it was daunting
as hell when I first started.
It became more natural, but I'veseen too many women just oh,
it's the baby, I'm gonna pick itup, I'm gonna rock it, I'm gonna
comfort it, I'm gonna.

SPEAKER_04 (02:47:44):
It's not natural to us, but it is.
Thank you for sharing that,because that's an important
perspective, because theopening's not necessarily open
for me near as much to be that.
Right, and Max will not let mebe that either.

SPEAKER_02 (02:47:59):
See, that's where I'm completely different when uh
I am nurturing like that.

SPEAKER_04 (02:48:05):
Yeah, I know you are.

SPEAKER_02 (02:48:06):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (02:48:06):
And uh And now I sound like a complete fucking
father fucking father here.

SPEAKER_05 (02:48:11):
It is we don't.
But this is the thing, I mean,you're not a single father.
No.
Okay, single fathers have tobecome that.

unknown (02:48:19):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (02:48:19):
Yeah, the nature of things isn't what you know the
bookends are here.
Right, right.
You are more in line with thenature of the sexes.
Right.
She is gonna get up and do itbecause good God, you sorry,
buddy, but you became second,possibly third with a new puppy.

SPEAKER_02 (02:48:41):
Now, Max is, you know, naturally attached to
anybody.

SPEAKER_05 (02:48:45):
Yeah, I mean, so they're gonna gravitate, so you
are gonna get squeezed out.
Yeah.
And the only reason I got to dowhat I got to do is because she
wasn't in the picture.

unknown (02:48:55):
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (02:48:56):
I guess that that I'm not gonna let her.
But the point I really wanted tomake is that I think all of
these things that aren'tstrengths doesn't mean we can't
do it.
Yeah.
And the same goes for women.
Okay.

But let's say it this way (02:49:11):
are you ever gonna be as strong as
me?
No, but you can get your ass inthe gym, you can look bigger
than me, you can be all you cando all those aspects of it.
But that one thing you'reprobably not gonna get to,
right?
Right.
Same thing with let's say, evenjust the example you just used.
Yeah.
And being a nurturer, do am Iclose to my son?

(02:49:32):
Yes.
Did we get touchy feely?
Do we two this very day?
Still hug.
I still give my son a kiss.
He's 17 years old.
I still give him a kiss on thecheek.
On your tiptoe.
Yeah, well, yeah, because he'sfucking six feet taller.
We get my stool.
Let dad get his tip stool.
But the idea is that there aregonna be certain aspects of

(02:49:54):
deep, deeper emotionalinteractions that men are gonna
struggle with more so becausewe're not as able to categorize
an emotion that is further awayfrom anger.

SPEAKER_04 (02:50:09):
That's a good point.
Yeah, that's a good point.
And I mean, um I mean I mean I'man incredibly emotional person.
Yes, you are, you fucking Well,I know I am, but the thing is,
is that Um It is a differentvibe than than some, I think.
I I'm very intense with myemotions, and often it doesn't

(02:50:31):
come off very soft.
And that's that's a strugglethat I that even.
And honestly, what'sinteresting, what's amazing
about Katie is that she's had tounderstand that.
That's not something she comesfrom.
That's not something she wascomfortable with.

SPEAKER_05 (02:50:48):
Well, she was raised by her mom, right?

SPEAKER_04 (02:50:50):
Right, but she's yeah, fair enough.
Yeah, okay.
But what's interesting aboutthat is she has come to actually
appreciate that.
I have pushed her to explorethings, like as far as
internally, that she's not wasnever probably going to, or I've
kind of in some ways forced herinto thinking of things

(02:51:12):
differently, like understandingmale perspectives a little
differently.
You know, where certain peoplein her life were not looked upon
very fondly for differentsituations, but I had to be
like, no, can you try try this?
Yeah, try this, think of it thisway, because I think pretty much
no situation is black or white,and I think certain situations

(02:51:34):
are incredibly nuanced, and whenyou're fed one side of the story
consistently, you're not gonnasee the other side.
So turn toward feminism.
Red pill.
Both, right?
And honestly, red pill was acounter to f to toxic
femininity.

SPEAKER_07 (02:51:51):
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (02:51:51):
That was not around until then.
It wasn't.
Oh no, I know.
That's why there was a surgenceof that.

SPEAKER_05 (02:51:58):
But again, we're talking about those extremes.

SPEAKER_04 (02:52:02):
Well, what I'm getting at is that was in
response to this.
Right, sure.
Quite completely.
Red pill was not a thing untilthat toxic femininity built up
so damn much the men had to belike, fuck this shit.
We're gonna double down on ourside.
Well, and I mean But there'svalidity in both sides, is the
interesting thing.

SPEAKER_05 (02:52:20):
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (02:52:20):
Just they're extremes.

SPEAKER_05 (02:52:22):
So, alright, the the other part of you know, the red
pill thinking too was the MIGTO.
You've heard of that?
Men going their own way.
Oh, yeah.
Okay.
So now I know you're going withit.
Well, the interesting thing isnowadays they're talking about
the male loneliness epidemic,right?
I unfortunately, I think it'snot being labeled as MGTO, but I

(02:52:47):
think it's being labeled, it'sbeen rebranded as I I'm I'm
keeping my peace.
Yes.
And doing it on my own.
And it is a legitimate thing.
Yeah.
Um no, there was one video yousent me.

SPEAKER_04 (02:53:02):
It was a guy making it, it was a conversation with
himself, if you remember.
You sent me this a while back.
It's exactly this.
The guy's like, Well, won't youmiss that?
No, I'm just gonna go like fishand come home and do it.
Well, weren't you gonna misslike somebody coming?
No, not really.
No, like it's just like I knowthe feeling.
Right?
And but here's the thing is thatif you're in a good
relationship, and I'm in a goodone, do I have a desire for

(02:53:26):
separation in times and somedistance?
Absolutely.
Do I crave to get back to mywife and my son?
Absolutely.
I do crave it.
I also crave the opposite.
I need some space too.
Sure.

SPEAKER_05 (02:53:37):
But I do get I think women would say the same thing.
Sure.
Sure.
I think it is healthy to beindividuals as one.

SPEAKER_04 (02:53:45):
And that that is a big struggle with certain
couples that I see is they don'thave an individuality.
Yeah.
One person usually is absorbedinto the other.
And it's usually not forced tobe that way.

SPEAKER_05 (02:54:00):
No.

SPEAKER_04 (02:54:01):
Because I can tell you in one particular case, this
guy actually very much frauddedhis woman.
Do your thing, explore yourthing.
You need that for yourself.
But yet she continued to stillkind of insert herself in his
passions and his interests,though she didn't have that.
Now they found a compromisewhere they kind of just do their

(02:54:22):
own thing in the same room andthat really works.
And I've done that.
But that's that's good.
That's still connection.
That doesn't need to beinterpreted as, oh, they're not,
they're not together, they'renot in the same space.
It's no, it's it's not that.
Because the fact is, these twopeople have completely different
interests.
There's there's not many thingsthat align.

(02:54:43):
But you can be in the samepresence and still talk to each
other while you're doing yourown thing, and that's connection
right there.
So again, it's ex it isnavigating different things and
and and navigating differentneeds and and compromising, but
you can also find thoseconnections together.
It may not look like what thetextbook thing that's out there

(02:55:05):
to do, but like good greatcouples find that, and they do.
And it it is I I think there'sso many things that are just
established as this is the wayit should be when it comes to
religion, when it comes topolitics, when it comes to
relationships.
It's like there's nuance toeverything.
Everything, and most of us onall of it, maybe not so much

(02:55:26):
religion.
I won't know if I'll includethat in it, but I think most of
us on all of it are pretty damnmuch in the middle.

SPEAKER_07 (02:55:33):
Most of us.

SPEAKER_04 (02:55:34):
Most of us.

SPEAKER_02 (02:55:36):
So yeah, I just I think for me is uh I have no
desire to be in a relationship,so it's like I don't know what I
want.
I just like my own peace, I likemy own comfortability.
You're there after being such ina toxic ass relationship, yeah.
It's like I am completelycomfortable.

(02:55:58):
Like, I don't need to go toparties to make friends or do
what is like I because I hearthat.
Like, how would you come out andgo to so-and-so's house and
there'll be a lot of peoplethere?
Nah.
Well, what are you gonna do?
I'm gonna go fishing or I'mgonna play on my PC.
Yeah.
Well, that's not veryproductive.
It is to me.
Like, I don't need people.
Thank you.

(02:56:19):
I don't need people.
Like Yeah.
I mean, people have, you know,it's just it's like I've found
my own peace.
Like, yes, could I go out andmake friends and have more
people within my inner circle?
Yeah, I could.
But on the flip side, I've hadpeople in my inner circle that
has fucking burdening.

SPEAKER_04 (02:56:37):
You have upset.
Talk about it on a podcastepisode with me.

SPEAKER_02 (02:56:40):
Nope.

SPEAKER_04 (02:56:41):
You've had some good burns.
I mean some good ones.

SPEAKER_02 (02:56:44):
So it's like I just found my own peace.
Like, I don't need to, I don'tneed anybody's validation.
No.

SPEAKER_04 (02:56:49):
And by the way, it takes a while to get there.
It does.
That's not something you're justinnately like, eh, you have to
have some shit happen to you orsituational things that cause
you to realize, you know what, Idon't need the drama from other
people.

SPEAKER_02 (02:57:04):
It's like I don't stay away permanently.
I mean, there's times I I'll goout and do things every once in
a while, but it's not but it'sat your own agency.

SPEAKER_04 (02:57:11):
Yeah.
It's when you need it.

SPEAKER_05 (02:57:14):
I think it's it's kind of the Cartman taking his
ball and going home kind ofthing, is the way it's branded.

SPEAKER_06 (02:57:24):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (02:57:25):
When you're done when men, you know, MIGTAW men
go in their own way, or maleloneliness epidemic, or screw
you guys, I'm going home.
Or I'm going to go live mypeace.
I think all of those things arethe same thing with different
branding.
Yeah, exactly.
It's it's the differentperspectives of it.

(02:57:46):
And I and I think a lot of thosethings, I think the the word
incel was created as a digagainst people who really were
just fed up.
Is there a certain amount ofhumanity, both male and female,
that will probably never knowthe touch of another?
Possibly.
Yes.
And and those people, thatsucks.

(02:58:08):
That sucks if they really wantto be with somebody.
I I wish that that would happenfor them.
But people who are genuinelychoosing, because I mean Well,
that's the core of the show,adolescence, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 (02:58:18):
Oh, I don't know.
Well, that's the Netflix show onthat.
Yeah, that's the core of that.

SPEAKER_02 (02:58:23):
Probably the only downside that I would say, you
know, being on your own andhaving that piece is that
there's sometimes you want totalk about shit and you wish you
had someone there.

SPEAKER_05 (02:58:35):
Right with the silence can be deafening.

SPEAKER_02 (02:58:37):
Yeah, where you, you know, whether it is a if you had
a positive, great day, or youhad just a complete and utter
shit day and you just want totalk about it on two sides of
the coin, and there's no one totalk to.
That's the only downside I gottathink.

SPEAKER_04 (02:58:48):
Yeah, and and it is different to call up a friend
and say that rather than someoneyou're romantically connected
to.

SPEAKER_02 (02:58:54):
That's the only thing that wouldsuck about not being uh being in
uh romantically involved withsomebody is that aspect alone.
Like you know you can go homeand talk to that person.

SPEAKER_04 (02:59:04):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (02:59:04):
But like you said, silence is deafening.

SPEAKER_04 (02:59:07):
Well, and I guess there's I mean there's also a
sexual frustration, I guess.
If you're somebody needs, youknow, connection to but that I
mean there's ways around thattoo.

SPEAKER_02 (02:59:16):
There's ways around that.
Maybe you had one, you've hadthem all.

SPEAKER_04 (02:59:19):
No, that in the respect.
There is that.
I mean and and um it also givesfours a chance.
On both sides, I guess.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (02:59:28):
I mean But yeah, the yeah, in that aspect too, people
maybe will gloss over on that,you know, having your own sexual
needs when you're owned and youdon't want to be you don't have
somebody to take care of thoseneeds, so you just gotta take
care of it yourself.
Yeah.
Does it get mundane after all,you know?
Sure, important.

SPEAKER_04 (02:59:42):
Yeah, and you know and figuring things out, sure.
But yeah.
I mean, for really, I mean, uh,I think uh in the end, during
certain times, uh for a man,sometimes just uh taking care of
yourself can't be enough for awhile.

SPEAKER_05 (02:59:55):
Good Lord, there's been times where it's like, God,
I just need to do it myself.
I'm just done with the shit.
Because sometimes you reallyjust do you just want to take
care of that.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (03:00:06):
That that need.
Well, and so here's the thing isthat you know, even that need
isn't always based in sexuality.
Oh, it's a need, though.
No, it is a need.
No, 100%.
Well, I'm gonna say no, but whatI'm gonna say is sometimes
ejaculating itself is whatmatters.
You know, just the need for thatrelease is actually what

(03:00:27):
matters.
And you want to know the funnything in the relationships that
I've been in.

SPEAKER_05 (03:00:33):
I have, and this is multiple, in those conversations
where like you'll talk aboutthat with a woman, and just be
like, oh, I just sleep so muchbetter.
Oh, you want me to help you?
And they're like, oh no, I knowI can never, but then I'll do
it.
Wake up the next morning,they're like, oh, that's like
the best sleep I've ever had.

(03:00:54):
I'm like, I know, right?
Like, let me show you somethings you didn't know about
yourself.
And honestly, it I feel likethat's a biological thing.

SPEAKER_03 (03:01:05):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (03:01:06):
When you have that release.

SPEAKER_04 (03:01:10):
Well, you know the endorphins and stuff it
releases.
I mean, it absolutely does.
And of course, there's a lot ofwomen who just want to deny that
altogether.
Well, it's not ladylike.
Exactly.
I think there's other things toit too, but what I want to go
with from there with that is.
And I lost it.
Oh.

(03:01:30):
No, it happened.
It happened, guys.
It's coming back.
Alright.
You're gonna give it.
I'm gonna get it.
I'm gonna get it.
Um.
Let's see if it spawned when Ithought about adolescence.
Heard any good jokes latelywhile we're waiting.
It spawned when I thought ofadolescence.
Um, okay, here it is.
I found it.
So here's the thing to shut upbefore I lose it again.

(03:01:52):
Um, so here's the thing is thatthe importance of having your
sexuality identified withinyourself.
And I'm talking when it comes tohomosexuality, uh ace, you know,
whatever it is, I'm sorry.
You need to have that identifiedfor yourself.

(03:02:14):
That it well, I know people whodon't.
They're not aware of wherethey're at.
You know, do I like women?
Do I like men?
Do I give a shit about sex?
To have that in flux?

SPEAKER_02 (03:02:25):
I have someone that took a long time to find out
that you know, and she wastrying to figure out her
sexuality.
Do I like men?
Yeah.
And then she also found out sheliked women.
Okay, does that mean that I'mjust a straight up lesbian if I
like women?
Does it mean that I can't findmen attractive or can't be
physically with men?

(03:02:45):
Yes.
Took her a long time to figureout, like, no, I like both.
Yes.
And it was it took it as a hard,you know, she said it took me a
long time to come to thatacceptance within myself that I
like both.
And she goes, I've had peopletell me, oh, no, if you like
women, you should just be astraight up lesbian carpet
muncher.
And she's like, no, that is notwhat I want.

SPEAKER_04 (03:03:05):
But then I don't get all of that I want.
Yeah.
But that's the thing, too, islabels hurt that shit.
It's like here I am talking somuch about Ryan's ass, and I do
love that ass.
I don't mind saying it.

SPEAKER_07 (03:03:18):
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (03:03:19):
I've grabbed it three times, and I will grab it
again, goddammit.
We believe you.
One more time.
So work it.
We know.
Um but no, seriously, what I'msaying with that is But what I'm
saying with that is I feel veryconfident saying I am a straight

(03:03:41):
man.
But as we all know, that usuallyis on the spectrum for most
people.
Now I don't know many full-onstraight men who are gonna be
like, there if there's this, ifthere's one guy out there, maybe
I would I that's what I'msaying.
I mean Nobody is a hundredpercent.

(03:04:01):
Okay.
But I'm saying to haveidentified what you are
comfortable with and not labelit, I'm straight, I'm gay, I'm
bi, we all lean, or we can leanpretty heavily one way.
Oh, for sure.
But even if you're in themiddle, that's okay.
But I don't I don't like theidea of labeling it so strictly

(03:04:23):
that you're not willing to gooutside the boundaries of it.

SPEAKER_05 (03:04:26):
No, I agree with that.
I I think where there's beensome confusion and some
mainstream politics, I I wouldsee sexuality as maybe more
fluid or spectrum versus gender.
Okay, yep, yep.
And I and I'm I'm not trying tobreak anybody's heart, but if

(03:04:50):
we're talking in general orspecific biological aspects,
gender is not fluid.
Your sexuality is fluid.
Right.
Um, you know, the there is nojoke that that one summer camp

(03:05:11):
where I dressed up like a womanversus, you know, that one time
at Band Camp.
And we all know what I'm talkingabout.
Right.
If I say those two phrases, onlyone of them holds true.
Right.
Right?
Right.
So Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (03:05:24):
I do see what you mean.

SPEAKER_05 (03:05:26):
I mean, and and I pro that's probably not far
enough to go with it, because Imean, I guess dressing up can be
a sexual experience for certainpeople.
Sure, it could be.
But but but say that's yoursexuality, not your gender.
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (03:05:42):
Right.
Yep, yep.
And I don't think there's no norneed to go into demonstration.
No, no, no.
Honestly, I think on my episodewith Rachel, she's gonna go to
town on some of that shit.
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (03:05:51):
But for that, um I don't even know if this is a
men's episode anymore.
It's more of a relationship andcommunication.
Well, that's part of it.
Yeah, for sure it is.

SPEAKER_04 (03:05:59):
I mean, that's one thing that we struggle with as,
you know, in differentapproaches.
But um I either way, I I I dothink it's so important to have
that identified and and to becomfortable knowing where you're
at and and uh avoid, you know,the labels rather than just I
feel like if you label it onething, you're giving up on the

(03:06:20):
exploration.

SPEAKER_05 (03:06:20):
Well, then let's say something about knowing where
you're at.
Yeah.
Instead, let's say be open tothe idea that you might move.
Yeah, there you go.
God, you're poetic.

SPEAKER_04 (03:06:32):
Well, I don't know about poetic.
You just put things so clearly.
But the Yeah, that's a comment Iget a lot on this podcast.
What's that?
That I have good ideas, butyou're you're very good at
reframing them to where peoplecan understand.
Oh.

SPEAKER_02 (03:06:44):
And then when I pop in, I'm just here.
I'm an interpreter.
I just interject here and there.

SPEAKER_04 (03:06:49):
No, that's perfect.
I mean, and and I mean, do youfeel like you've gotten to say
what you want to say?
Yeah.
Okay.

unknown (03:06:54):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (03:06:54):
Do you feel like you've gotten to say what you
want to say?

SPEAKER_05 (03:06:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (03:06:57):
Do we have more on our Well, I can look at the old
list here.

SPEAKER_05 (03:07:00):
You said this one was gonna be a long one with
some uh possible possibilitiesfor part one, part two, part
three.

SPEAKER_04 (03:07:08):
I mean I don't know that there's honestly, kind of
organically, I think we hit mostof it.
I really think we did, actually.
Yeah, I mean, I don't seeanything on here we really
didn't.

SPEAKER_02 (03:07:23):
We covered a lot of it.

SPEAKER_04 (03:07:24):
I mean, I added for some reason, I think my belly
was adding a lot of extracapital T's and lowercase t's.
I don't know what I meant bythat.
Um my god, I added it to somuch.

SPEAKER_02 (03:07:35):
That's when you know your belly or not when you was
thinking about Ryan?
Probably.

SPEAKER_04 (03:07:40):
That's the Ryan's buttons.
You know what?
Tap into code for Ryan's butt.
Yeah, I I yeah, I we literallycovered all of it.
About all of it.
Okay.
I mean, I don't really haveanything else.
We got three hours into thisbitch.

SPEAKER_05 (03:07:55):
Ryan's ass has gotta go in.

SPEAKER_02 (03:07:58):
Is it like a Forrest gum deal with you and Ryan if
you like go to touch them andyou just blow a load?
Like when Forrest comes Jennyfor Jenny.
Ryan.
I feel dizzy.
I feel sorry I ruined yourroommate's bathroom.
Oh my god.

SPEAKER_05 (03:08:18):
I think it's part of my soul trip dial.

SPEAKER_02 (03:08:22):
So I ruined your Black Panther party.
Black Panther party.
He's thinking it's like a gettogether.
Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 (03:08:32):
Oh my god.
Well, um I I like where thiswent, fellas.
I think we covered the wholespectrum.

SPEAKER_05 (03:08:41):
I guess.
You don't want to bring up thebear?
Go ahead.
Oh, I don't care.
No, do it, man.
No, I'm being a smart ass, butyou know, they choose the bear
versus men.
That whole thing was just I wasbeing a smart ass.
What was it?
I don't know what shot meant.
If if a woman could choosewhether she had to be around a
stranger, male, or a bear, shewould choose the bear.

(03:09:04):
Have you heard that?
No, I haven't.
Really?
You haven't heard?
Oh, that was a huge thing for aminute.
The argument was that, you know,men are more dangerous than than
the bear.
And if you're if you'relistening to what they're
saying, again, it's indirect.
Because obviously, if she hangsout with a bear, she's dead.
Right?

(03:09:24):
There's nothing worse than beingdead, right?
Wouldn't he the poo wouldn'tkill anybody?

SPEAKER_04 (03:09:28):
However, take the honey away from him and No, you
have that haunted version.
We'll just frick you.
Go ahead, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_05 (03:09:36):
No, but okay, so again, it goes back to speaking
direct and speaking indirect.
As a male, we'll be like, Idon't understand that.
I would never fucking pick thebear over a woman.
Okay, so she's saying not thatyou would kill her, but you
would murder her soul, and thenshe'd have to live with that.
So that would be more torturousthan dying at the hands of a

(03:10:00):
bear.
Instead of saying, hey, thisreally affects us, it puts it in
that negative that men are thetoxic piece in that.
I'd rather die than have to dealwith a man and his sexual need.

SPEAKER_04 (03:10:17):
Can I turn that a different way?
That's what you guys think.
Sure.
I'd rather live with a womanthan a bear.

SPEAKER_05 (03:10:23):
Right, you're speaking directly.

SPEAKER_04 (03:10:26):
But you know what that means.
So you're no, so women will saythey'd rather be killed by a
bear than go through thesuffering of being with a man.
My perspective would be I'drather go through the suffering
of being with a woman than bekilled by a bear.
Right.
Is that what you're saying?
Is that in there?
I thought I had a revolutionarything here from that

(03:10:48):
perspective.

SPEAKER_05 (03:10:49):
No, because you're stating fact.
Like you don't we don't want todie.
Women are saying, oh, I wouldgive up my life not to have to
deal with being raped by a manand Right.
Okay.
So you're saying that mentalanguish is worse than just not
being here.
So it's like again, toxifying.

SPEAKER_04 (03:11:11):
Of course, I gotta think of that though, because
think about it.
The mental anguish weexperienced, we went out all the
time.

SPEAKER_05 (03:11:16):
Well, no.
Maybe we would pick something.
But the counterpart of that iswould you rather tell your
deepest secret to a woman or abrick wall?
I love these analogies.
Brick wall probably listen more.
And that's that's what you get.
It's like, yeah, I would lovefor me to just be able to get it
out.
I don't care if you even reallyprocess with me or not.

(03:11:37):
I just want to be able to say itand not get harmed.

SPEAKER_04 (03:11:40):
Ladies.
But yet you want we wantsomebody to hear it too.
Ideally.
He's like, that would be ideal.
But here's the thing is when wedo that with other men a lot of
times, exactly what he said.
Oh, you're fine, move on.

SPEAKER_02 (03:11:56):
It's like Or even like during the talk toxicity
with them two, you know, as a Iwant you to open up to me.
So he'd open up to her and thenalways use that shit against him
when she did when he did openup.
Right.
Which is he'll close back up.
Well, you never talk about yourfeelings.
But yeah, because you use itagainst, you know.
He'll say, you know, you use itagainst me.
So why the fuck do I want totalk to you about this shit?

(03:12:17):
Right.
I'm not gonna give you the gunsto shoot me with.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (03:12:20):
This is this is gonna sound whatever.
I don't experience any of thisshit.
I don't understand it.

SPEAKER_05 (03:12:27):
You're in a hap- you're in a healthy
relationship.

SPEAKER_04 (03:12:29):
No, I uh no, no, no, no, no.
I what I what I'm expressingwith that is also that I'm
genuinely happy with thesituation I'm in and it puts it
in perspective.
What it also scares me is whatthe fuck is out there?
Oh, it's bad.

SPEAKER_05 (03:12:43):
I'm serious, and I don't mean that as like a like
there's a reason men arechoosing peace.
Because based dating, I mean, Idon't know your experience.
If you've chosen peace andyou've decided to stay out of
dating altogether, awesome.
I commend you because that takesdiscipline.
I have been in a relationship,there was some on and off again

(03:13:07):
to it, and some dating in themiddle.
Oh my god, I'd rather go back tomy problems than deal with a
whole brand new one.
It only gets worse.
It it really truly is.
The the current climate of themodern woman for a man who is
truly looking for connection tobe able to express not only his

(03:13:29):
sexuality, but his protectivenature.
And his penis.
His pro well, his provision, hiswhat what is it?
Protection, provision.
Pussy.
And penis.
No, what is it, protectionpenis?
Pagion.
Why provide, protect Pannies.
No, shut the fuck up.
See, this is how this is how mentalk.

(03:13:49):
We we and that's the thing, too,is if we open up to each other,
yeah, you faggot, you fuckingfucking but but that's the
thing.
We we genuinely understand thatyou heard what I said.
And your response to me is aloving application of it sure
is.

SPEAKER_04 (03:14:08):
Well, what's funny is like I always love the the
old the old idea that you knowthere's a fight in high school
and it's two men or two kids,boys.
You know, they'll beat the shitout of each other and afterwards
shake hands, hey, good fight.
Right.
It's like, but women, it's likethey're enemies for the rest of
their life.
Well that's they're also waymeaner.
Oh, way I mean they're ruthless.

(03:14:30):
Way meaner.
I've heard like my wife tellsstories, and she's never been in
a fight, but like she would talkabout Shelbyville fights, like
there would be high school wetgirls fighting, and I mean
they're brutal.
It's men more just kind ofwrestling.

SPEAKER_02 (03:14:42):
That's why I love the women in the UFC.
Like they just beat the shit outof each other, and I'd love it.
I'd love watching them more thanthe men do.
I mean, I gotta tell you.
Well, there's reasons for thattoo.

SPEAKER_05 (03:14:54):
Sorry.
Whatever.
Shut me up on that one.
I'm like, ooh, I wonder.
Tell me about your mother.

SPEAKER_01 (03:15:01):
Like, what are your reasons for wanting to do?
You don't want to know the shit,Dewey.
Shut up.
You don't want to know Dewey.

SPEAKER_05 (03:15:08):
Yeah.
Well, you know, you just tellme, and I'd be shut up, faggot.
Yeah, shut up, faggot.
But then we'd crack a beer andyou know, share that moment.
Um But yeah, you're right.
Men the once the fighting'sover, we're done.
Or you're in jail.
Getting handcuffed away with thestuff.
Well, then you're probably bothin the same cell.

SPEAKER_02 (03:15:27):
So that was Or you're like Peter Griffin to the
chicken and just start fightingagain.

SPEAKER_04 (03:15:34):
Five months later, it's like, hey, son of a bitch,
and then you move on and thenyou meet up again.
It is interesting that dynamic.
Because I don't think men holdgrudges near as bad as women,
for the most part.
No.
Not even No, I think it dependson how a man was scorned.

SPEAKER_05 (03:15:50):
Yeah.
But this is the thing, it'slike, you know, when I was going
through what I went through withthe borderline personality.
Your second marriage.
All right.
Ten years later, I see her at abank drive-thru, and it's like,
oh my god, I think that insteadof, oh, you fucking bitch.

(03:16:10):
Like I was genuinely like, well,it's like when we thought.

SPEAKER_04 (03:16:15):
Well, no, it's like when we thought we saw her at
the pizza place, Guff and I.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
And we were texting you, and youdesperately wanted to go.
And we I wanted to see.
We took pictures of this woman,and you and I were like trying
to is this her?
This is yours?
I don't know.
We found out she wasn't.

unknown (03:16:31):
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (03:16:31):
I don't know if you ever do that.
No.
But what's funny is like he waswoke up.

SPEAKER_02 (03:16:36):
No, actually, I had a picture in my phone.
I was gonna be like, I found agirl again.
But it's funny.
Or you can pursue her yourself.
Uh no.

SPEAKER_04 (03:16:46):
Yeah, yeah.
What's funny is we went thereand she waited on us.
But read the label.
Before you engage.

SPEAKER_02 (03:16:53):
No, I don't want to.

SPEAKER_04 (03:16:55):
I'm good.
No, it was really funny.
Of course, you two had your ownjokes about stuff.
But what was funny about that isyou wanted to go there because
you're like, I want her to waiton me and have to fucking pour
my drinks and shit.
I love that.
Serve me my pizza.
Feed it to me.

(03:17:15):
Um that was just funny.
I couldn't.
Anyway.
Um where's my drink?

SPEAKER_01 (03:17:21):
Where's my drink?
Um how can I eat my pizzawithout my drink?

SPEAKER_04 (03:17:26):
Um, but it is funny.
I mean, it's but I think that'san approach we would have.
It's like, yeah, that's a verypassive aggressive thing for
sure.

SPEAKER_05 (03:17:36):
Well, but it's but honestly, if it was a female's
ex, she would probably hide.
She wouldn't have to be a littlebit more.

SPEAKER_04 (03:17:44):
Oh, yeah, she would be like, Oh, he's here, let's go
somewhere else.

SPEAKER_05 (03:17:46):
Right.
Yeah, we gotta get out of here.

SPEAKER_04 (03:17:47):
I mean, I would be like, oh fuck yeah.
Because I would want to make theperson feel awkward as shit.
Whatever that meant.
If they were just in therestaurant, I'd be like, I'd
walk by on purpose.

SPEAKER_02 (03:17:57):
That's how I would be now.
Then I wouldn't, but I'd be sointroverted and closed off.
Like, no, let's keep walking,yeah, let's keep walking.

SPEAKER_00 (03:18:04):
No, I'd be like, hey, what's your name?
How are you doing?
Who's your friend here?
Good luck, buddy.

SPEAKER_05 (03:18:11):
Who's your little buddy?

SPEAKER_02 (03:18:13):
It's like, oh, do you miss her?

SPEAKER_04 (03:18:18):
Like too bad.
But yeah, I mean that is funny.
It's just different approaches.
It is.
And from our perspective, I lookat that approach and say, that's
healthier.
But I bet a woman or certainpeople would look at that
perspective and be like, that'sfucked up.
Yeah.
But it kind of goes back to thatwhole thing of like approaches

(03:18:40):
to comedy or sexual desires orany of that.
It's like, do approaches have tobe wrong or religion when we did
that episode.
Can we all have a different pathof we're not hurting anybody?
And if you let yourself get hurtor offended, that's actually
your problem.

SPEAKER_05 (03:18:59):
If if we found a society where we could let that
be the norm more than upset,too.
Well, know that it was theirproblem.
Yeah.
Oh, you're saying that could benormally.
I'm saying if we could turn itaround to the point where the
people who are really upsetabout the ridiculous stuff were
really left to just be like,okay, you're you're touched.

(03:19:20):
Right, you're you're you'respecial.
We're gonna put the rubberhelmet over there for you.
Yeah.
You know, because we don't wantyou to hurt yourself anymore.
It is kind of what you go takecare of yourself there.
And it's like us having tocoddle and live inside a
ridiculous fucking matrix.

SPEAKER_04 (03:19:36):
And and I gotta tell you this, and it's something
I've really wrestled with a lot.
You've heard some of the AIsongs I've written, and you've
contributed to some of those.
You know I haven't releasedthose for that exact fucking
reason.
They are awful.
But I've played Annie Comes ofAge.
You've heard that one, right?

SPEAKER_06 (03:19:55):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 (03:19:55):
Did you laugh at that?
Yeah.
It's fucking funny.
Oh, yeah.
I have not awful Knickers forSale.
Which was posted under Marv, soyou just did a reveal.
Which is fine.
But like, I haven't releasedthat under us because now
there's a face to target.
But when I released that underMarv, I didn't get a single

(03:20:18):
backlash from a damn person.
There's no face to target.
Why does that matter?
Because that means the thecontent is objectively funny to
people.
But if it comes from anotherface or another identity that
can be that can be labeled, it'slike, oh, that's not funny
anymore.
And that's why I haven'treleased it under us.

(03:20:39):
And I'm getting to the pointright now, and I'm hitting I'm
like, you know what?
I'm contributing to the problemif I don't release it.
A little bit.
I'm contributing to it becauseI'm censoring myself at the
expense of my funny, what I findfunny, and clearly others too.
I'm contributing to the wholeidea that, oh, this is gonna be
too hard for some people.

(03:21:00):
In fact, right now in thismoment, and I think I'm gonna
lose this fire once thingssettle.
But in this moment, I'm like, Iwant to get on my phone right
now and put Annie and Knickersfor sale and fucking sing about
penis, that song we did.
Diddy did it.
And Diddy did it, which isalready out there.
But that one's safe becausethat's making fun of somebody
who obviously pray not to getit.

(03:21:22):
He's probably not gonna, youknow, he's probably not gonna be
here in another five years.
So that's what I'm saying,though.
It's like I just it just hit me.
I'm just like, I'm contributingto that fucking stigma right
there.
But I guarantee I've got theheat right now that if we got
off right now, I could post itall.
I go home and let things settle,it's gonna be like I don't have
the balls to do it anymore.

SPEAKER_05 (03:21:40):
Yeah.
Well, I was trying to look for asegue into like, well, hey,
maybe you just post it on thestruggle bus because we didn't
bring up struggle bus.
And we really should.
Nobody cares about the struggle.
Nobody cares about it, but hadthat one eventually somebody
will.

SPEAKER_02 (03:21:55):
Yeah, who was that one scammer or somebody that
starts sending out messages?

SPEAKER_04 (03:22:00):
Yeah.
I don't know what the deal waswith that.
Well, but either way.

SPEAKER_05 (03:22:05):
Maybe you just post some, post them there.

SPEAKER_04 (03:22:08):
But that still isn't that's still not the message.
Okay.
But right?
Is that not still kind of, oh,this is safe to do it, but to
put it out there.
I'm not saying it's safe.

SPEAKER_05 (03:22:19):
I'm saying make people go look for it.

SPEAKER_04 (03:22:22):
Oh, I know.
Let me ask you, let me ask you.
Let's say you're on TikTok andthis guy's like, hey, if you get
on this, I've got this prettycrazy thing.
Would you check it out,honestly?
Because my thing is that's gonnabe too much effort for people.
It's too much effort to click ona fucking link.

SPEAKER_05 (03:22:38):
If you not necessarily, especially if you
play a snippet and they're it'sa funny thing.

SPEAKER_02 (03:22:44):
That's what I was thinking.
That snippets and like, oh, it'son the struggle bus or something
like that.

SPEAKER_04 (03:22:49):
That's smart, guys.

SPEAKER_02 (03:22:52):
To get more uh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (03:22:53):
I don't know what snippet to do of Annie, though.
I think the whole thing.

SPEAKER_05 (03:22:56):
You know exactly.
Oh, it hurts.

SPEAKER_02 (03:23:01):
It hurts.
It hurts so good.
God in heaven.

SPEAKER_05 (03:23:05):
Yeah.
I mean, if nothing else, justput a file out there that says
what what was it?
Something horse daddy.

SPEAKER_04 (03:23:14):
I'm a schizophrenic, homophobic, gigging male
prostitute.
Desperately trying to I evenknow that.

SPEAKER_07 (03:23:22):
Yeah.
Well, it's a catchy littleditty.

SPEAKER_04 (03:23:25):
Diddy diddy ditty.
Okay, we're in it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think I think uh yeah, thiswas good.
Good length.
Yeah.
Now we need to work on thegirth.
Now we gotta work on girth here.
Um okay.
Uh thanks for thanks for joiningus.
Um yeah, we'll drop the strugglebus real quick.
Supportive community, there's 13of us.

(03:23:48):
Um it's it's basically asupportive community where um
you know you can share prettymuch anything you want, and and
uh we're all very comfortableresponding and meeting you on
that level.
Um it's really free of judgment.
Uh you can let things out, uhbring the bring the fucked up
dark offensive humor, bring thedark stories, bring the

(03:24:08):
struggle.
Um that's what it's there for.
Um so for those of you who Andseek support.
And that's actually the bigthing is seek support.
It's just about being yourselfand seeking genuine support from
people who will not judge youand who care.
But we have fun too.
Um What I was gonna say is ifanybody wants to join it on any
of my TikTok videos or um, Iguess if you post this on

(03:24:30):
Spotify or anything, justcomment struggle, um, and then
I'll DM you the link.
Um unfortunately it's hard forme to put embedded links into
TikTok videos or anything.
I don't think TikTok allowsembedded things, which is dumb.
But um either way, uh I hope youenjoyed this episode.
I I know this is probably gonnabe a rough one for some people,
but again, try to understand itsperspective, and I know a lot of

(03:24:54):
it came off certainly heated andit is a one side.
It is absolutely one side, sohave the fucking conversation,
right?
Believe it or not, this is notmeant to be confrontational.
Um often the way we approachthings on here is to be kind of
bold so you guys will fuckingtalk back.

SPEAKER_07 (03:25:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (03:25:11):
Um, but we're not out here to hate on anybody or
women or men or or anybody.
It just talk to us.
Um, you know, there's 75 fuckingthousand of you, and all you
guys will comment is, hey, canyou you stick to notes a little
better?
Um sure.
So we did it.
There you go.
You're welcome.
And I think I think we actuallydid stay pretty well on track.

(03:25:34):
So you got what you wanted.
Give us what we want.
That's right.
This is about us now.
It's about us now.
We don't care about your needs.
Um, anyway, thanks for joiningus.
I hope you guys got somethingout of it.
I definitely want to thank Gufffor joining us.
Um, we've been wanting to dothis for a very very long time
with him.
Uh I'm sure there'll be moreepisodes in the future with him

(03:25:54):
if he if he wants to.

SPEAKER_02 (03:25:56):
Or if they want me back.
You guys want to have a biggerone?

SPEAKER_05 (03:25:59):
Hey, you've been back by popular demand.
Can you keep the notes, axe thetwo guys, just put guff out
there.

SPEAKER_04 (03:26:04):
Just guff on your camera.
Uh hey, that'd be fine.
We can we can do a guff segment.

SPEAKER_02 (03:26:10):
Like, it's cuff.
Give me some alcohol first, thenI'll do that.

SPEAKER_04 (03:26:15):
That'd be great.
But anyway, um, you got guffhere, you got indie pocket, you
got defective schizo, effective,nick, tone the three fags with a
big black microphone.

SPEAKER_07 (03:26:39):
Go do it, do it right, guys.

SPEAKER_04 (03:26:41):
Alright, guys, thanks for joining us.
This is Bottom Hui, where wesay, don't look to the bottle.

SPEAKER_05 (03:26:53):
It's a good thing we rehearse this.

SPEAKER_04 (03:26:54):
Don't look to the bottle.
You're showing me a table.
Don't look to the bottle.
Or the knife.
Or the gun.

SPEAKER_03 (03:27:00):
Look for the souls you become.
That was horrible.

SPEAKER_05 (03:27:03):
You want to just say it all yourself?
Look to the Dick Dick Birk Don'tlook to the bottle.

SPEAKER_04 (03:27:10):
Look to Ryan's ass.
Don't look for sunshine.
Nothing will make you happierthan Brian's ass.
Sunshine of you.
Do you remember when I madeRyan's ringtone the prince thing
from Kiss?
Ding and ding-in-ding-in-ding.

SPEAKER_07 (03:27:26):
I made that as ringtone.

SPEAKER_04 (03:27:28):
He hated that.
Yeah, I know.
That's so funny.
Anyway.
Alright.
Thanks, everybody.
Don't look to the bottle of theknife with the gun this second.

SPEAKER_02 (03:27:39):
Aim for the bushes.
Aim for the bushes.

unknown (03:27:41):
Bye bye.

SPEAKER_04 (03:27:42):
And

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Men’s Mental Health, Toxic Masculinity & Vulnerability | Josh “Guff” Guffey

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Men’s Mental Health, Toxic Masculinity & Vulnerability | Josh “Guff” Guffey