Policing, Mental Health & Stress Management | Officer Ryan Manning, Pt. 1

Policing sits at the intersection of authority, crisis, trauma exposure, and human behavior — which means mental health is part of the job whether anyone wants to admit it or not.

In Part 1 with Officer Ryan Manning, host Nicholas Wichman (“The DEFECTIVE Schizoaffective”) digs into law enforcement and mental health: what “authority” actually means in real-world interactions, how training shapes stress response, and what officers do (or don’t do) to stay regulated under pressure. We also talk stereotypes, public misunderstandings, and why crisis situations escalate faster than people expect.

This episode isn’t pro-cop propaganda or anti-cop rage. It’s an honest conversation about stress, perception, and what happens when civilians and police collide during high-emotion moments.

In this episode, we talk about:

• What police authority does and doesn’t mean in practice
• Stress response, adrenaline, and how training changes decisions
• Mental health on the job: burnout, trauma exposure, and coping
• Domestic violence realities and the complexity of crisis calls
• Stereotypes on both sides and where they come from
• De-escalation: what works, what fails, and why
• Why civilians misread risk and escalation in tense situations
• What “preparedness” looks like without paranoia

If policing, authority, or past interactions with law enforcement trigger anxiety or anger for you, join our Discord, “The Struggle Bus” — talk it out with people who can handle nuance, and we’ll help you sort your thoughts, boundaries, and next steps. (link below)

Beat The Mental Health Out Of It! (AKA “BTMHOOI!”) is a candid mental health podcast rooted in lived experience: schizoaffective disorder, schizophrenia spectrum psychosis, BPD, PTSD, trauma recovery, coping skills, and dark humor that helps make serious mental illness more understandable and human.

Hosted by Nicholas Wichman (“The DEFECTIVE Schizoaffective”) with frequent co-host Tony Medeiros (“IndyPocket”), we cover psych wards, psychiatric medication, disability, religious trauma, good therapy, bad therapy, and practical real-world coping — plus the societal and relationship issues that shape mental health every day. The goal isn’t just “fighting stigma.” It’s education, clarity, and honest conversation.

We interview everyone from everyday people to public figures, clinicians, and professionals, because mental health struggles don’t care who you are. If you’re willing to share your story or expertise, we aim to offer a safe, judgment-free space where you can speak openly — and still have some fun while doing it.

New episodes drop every other Monday at 6am EDT.

Want community and support? Join our Discord, “The Struggle Bus”: https://discord.gg/emFXKuWKNA

All links (TikTok, YouTube, Streaming, etc.): https://linktr.ee/BTMHOOI

Podcast cover art by Ryan Manning

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_02 (00:23):
Hey! Welcome to Bottom Hui, ladies and
gentlemen.
Your favorite mental healthpodcast.
It's definitely your favorite.
You don't even listen to it.
Yes, I do.
We got our number one fan here.
First time, no, wait, secondtime.
First call, first long timelistener, first time caller.

(00:43):
First time caller.
Hello, caller.
All right, my friend.
We have officer, Mr.
Dr.
Professor Officer Ryan with ustoday.
And you heard him on the lastone.
We talked about being broskies,brethrenowski's, and the
perspective of dealing with myschizo ass during that time.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05):
Yeah, your schizoass.
Schizo ass.

SPEAKER_02 (01:08):
Sexy schizoass.
If you don't say so to yourself.
We won't speak of your ass,Ryan.
That'll that'll take a wholepodcast.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14):
It will be the entire podcast.

SPEAKER_02 (01:16):
The entire podcast.
I've mentioned it on manyepisodes prior.
You may have noticed.
Yeah.
Anyway, so today we're going tobe speaking more from a
professional perspective ofOfficer Ryan.
Thank you.
Glad to be here.
Always glad to have you.
So I have to I want to start offwith like, you know, when when
we were kids, you were you werean absolute goofball dumbass.

(01:39):
And the reason I prefer thereason I preface it with that is
because look at you now.
You're freaking almost a SWAT.
Are you officially SWAT yet?
No, I have it SWAT school's nextmonth.
So you're getting close.
You're getting close.
Getting close.
Yeah.
So I guess like I was saying,like, you know, I never would

(02:00):
have thought back then that youwould have turned out to be an
officer.
But I gotta say, you know, as asyou know, when our friends and
and myself included found outyou were going to the academy,
somehow it was like, fuck, thatis the perfect job for him.

SPEAKER_00 (02:14):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (02:15):
And uh sure turns out, sure seems like it was
about perfect.

SPEAKER_00 (02:18):
Best decision ever made.

SPEAKER_02 (02:20):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (02:20):
Second best.
So being my friend was first.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
All right.
That was less of a decision andmore of just like an
inevitability.

SPEAKER_02 (02:34):
Being my friend or being your partner?
Well, I was I was talking aboutyou and me.
Oh you and me.
Right.
Yes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Remember that time when we triedto Gaddafi you?
I remember, yes.
Yeah, it didn't go well for you.
Well, it never happened, ladiesand gentlemen.
It never happened.
We tried.
All right.
So gotta ask you, because Idon't know if I've ever actually

(02:56):
asked you this.
When did you choose to be a cop?
When did you decide that wasgoing to be your trajectory?
Because I don't know if I everactually asked you that.

SPEAKER_00 (03:04):
Yeah, so I don't know if you remember too much,
but um my dad was in theMarines.
I was a baby.
He was only in the Marines forfour years.
Um, but being a Marine, if youknow Marines, it's like once a
Marine, always Marine.
Um growing up, I kind of hadthis idea that I might join the
Marines one day, and it kind ofstuck with me for a long time.

(03:25):
You know, was going to go to gointo the Marines.
My dad talked me out of itbasically.
Literally said, let me tell youabout the ass fucking I got from
the Marines.
Literally?
Told me, not literally, butAmerican history ex style.
Metaphorically, all right.
And he was like, you know, go tocollege first, see how that how

(03:47):
you feel about it, and then youknow, you can always go enlist
at a later time.
So as you know, I ended up goingto school.
I kind of struggled out incollege a little bit with what I
wanted to do.
Um taking a semester off at onepoint, but ultimately ended up
going to school, getting my mybachelor's degree, and then
after school, like I struggledto find find work.

(04:09):
I mean, I was applying all thetime.
I was someone who had prettygood work ethic, pretty good
recommendations, and I justcould not get into the my field.
Um, and it was seeming prettydaunting to the point where one
of the primary reasons I movedto Florida was job seeking, more
opportunity, things like that.
And I ended up kind of fallinginto a career I didn't really

(04:29):
anticipate to be in, which islike property management.
And then, you know, at somepoint, I you know, I just kind
of got to the point where it'slike, I really I want to do
something that I still had thatlike desire, you know, with the
idea of like joining themilitary that still was like
there.
I didn't want to, I didn't, youknow, was at a place where I
wasn't going to join themilitary.

(04:50):
Right.
So that was still there.
And then I wanted security.
You know, I've worked a lot ofreally hard jobs where, you
know, at the end of the day,it's like it doesn't feel like
I'm either a lot of upwardmomentum or possibilities for
many years.
Health insurance, it's thingslike that.
I was like, you know what?
I really just want somethingthat is stable and that I can go

(05:13):
into work every day, make apaycheck, pay my bills.
Right?
I mean it's a very practical wayto practical way to think about
it.

SPEAKER_02 (05:20):
Well, we have to.
We have to.
We should.
We should be thinking aboutthings that way.

SPEAKER_00 (05:24):
So this was this was over five years ago at this
point.
So honestly, I was stuck intraffic one day and I was
watching FHP conduct a trafficstop.
That's literally all it was, andI just thought I bet I could do
that.
And that's really where the ideagot kind of planted in my brain.

(05:44):
And then it was kind of likeonce I had the idea, I was like,
that just seems like a like theperfect job for me, you know?
Like this, that just seems likean it'd be a great job.
It's it's kind of got like theyou know, like the doing good
aspect that I always envisionedwith the military.
Right.
You know, like join the militarywas just like very honorable
thing.
Well, so it was being lawenforcement, so it's like it's a

(06:07):
very honorable job, it's veryprestigious.
And once I kind of got over theidea of like being intimidated
by the by the job, I was like, Ican do it.
I bet I can do it.

SPEAKER_02 (06:16):
And uh I bet that would be I bet that had to be.
Was it was it an intimidatingjob to absolutely it had to be.

SPEAKER_00 (06:25):
I mean they were you know, it's funny because now
I'll say, I don't know if youjust kind of cope with the
stress or whatever, but I neverdread going to work, right?
I never work.
This is the first job I've everhad where I do not think about
how much time I have left in myweekend before I have to go back
to work, and you know, I'm justlike spending my hours off work,

(06:47):
just dreading going to work.
None of that.
In five years, I've just not hadthat.
Especially I'm going through theacademy, there'd be days if I'd
get up in the morning, you know,you gotta get up super early in
the morning, right?
Go to the academy to getscreamed at, and you know, I'm
like, what am I doing?
What am I putting myselfthrough?

(07:07):
Uh I would just wake up somemore and be like, this is crazy.
What am I doing?
And then, you know, it becomesvery real once you put the gun
on and the badge on and you goout for the first time.
Yeah.
And, you know, you've got you'vegot a uh a field training
officer who's with you throughyour training, but it's still
very, very intimidating.
You don't know what you'redoing, you know.

(07:28):
Um, and so you're gonna go outthere with a badge and a gun and
try to tell people what to do,and like you don't know the
first thing about the job you'redoing, you know.

SPEAKER_02 (07:36):
So gosh, the the weight of that particular job,
uh yeah, that would I that wouldbe intimidating as fuck to me to
think about that.

SPEAKER_00 (07:46):
Yeah, the thing about this job that is really
hard to put into perspective isthe variability of what your day
is going to look like.
You you'll see people talk aboutthis on social media things like
that, where they say, you know,cops will be helping an old lady
move her dishwasher, and thenext thing they're in a
shooting, right?
I've not been in any shootings,but you know, it is that kind of

(08:06):
job where you will honestlyyou'll just be doing the most I
like that you'll go to thedumbest call, be like a dog
barking call, and you're justdealing with someone who's
really upset about a dog, andthen the next thing you know,
you're driving 80, 90 miles downa you know, city road trying to
go to a call where someone'sbeing attacked with like a
knife, right?

(08:27):
So it's like the you're kind ofalways a little bit on on edge
when you're sure.
You know, it's always there.
Yeah.
And actually what's interestingis I've always I'm not someone
who gets like too ex likeexcited.
I always say I don't get reallyexcited at work, I stay pretty
calm.

SPEAKER_02 (08:46):
You never have been that person.

SPEAKER_00 (08:48):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (08:49):
Yeah, always been a very collected person.
Hyper, but collected.
There's a difference.

SPEAKER_00 (08:55):
Yeah, so you know, I've never been someone who even
on this, like at really anypoint gets like real amped up
during calls.
Okay.
However, like the more that I dothe job and the the basically
like the calmer I get, morecomfortable I get with the job,
the more I realize the like thelittle ball uh uh of stress that

(09:18):
just kind of always sits there.
I'm always aware of it.
Oh, okay.
Okay.
I'm always aware of it because Iknow that it's a problem, and I
have to make sure that I'mmaintaining my stress levels and
things like that at work becauseas soon as you let that get out
of hand, that's when you knowyou make dumb mistakes.
Sure.
Sure.
I always try to keep anytime I'mgoing to a call that's we'll say

(09:39):
like a hot call or a call that'sthere's like an in-progress
incident that's occurring, andyou know, it you get all the
adrenaline dump and stuff likethat.
I will always, always uhprioritize trying to maintain my
stress in those moments becausethat's that's your biggest enemy
is like maintaining your stressbecause then you get a little
you get a little frantic, youcan't really think clearly.

(10:01):
So, you know, kind of learninghow to maintain that that little
bit of stress that's just kindof always there is like really,
really key and important to tothe job.

SPEAKER_02 (10:10):
But do you have a method?

SPEAKER_00 (10:12):
Uh the method that I use anytime I notice that I
start to get ank I you know, Isay anxious.
If I start to feel anxious, andit will come out of nowhere.
You'll just feel like drivingdown the road and it'll just
like you'll feel like theanxiousness kind of pop up.
This is true for anybody who'sin this in this field.
Right.
You know what box breathing is?
So box breathing is um it's abreathing technique where you

(10:36):
take five seconds in for abreath, you hold it for five
seconds, and then you exhale forfive seconds, and then you hold
it for five seconds, and thenyou repeat that.
They call it box breathingbecause that method, tried and
true, works better thananything.

SPEAKER_02 (10:55):
Wow.
Okay.
And you think you could applythat to most situations just to
help with anxiety kind of acrossthe board?
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (11:03):
Uh yeah, I mean I do.
Yeah.
Anytime I I start to feel alittle bit of start to feel
anxiousness or stress or likeadrenaline taking that, doing
that box breathing.

SPEAKER_01 (11:12):
Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 (11:12):
It it it's a it's a thing for a reason and it works
incredibly well.

SPEAKER_02 (11:16):
Yeah, I don't know if I've heard the the box
breathing kind of method.
I will say, if you remember inuh Wolf of Wall Street, uh
Matthew McConaughey's method wasI like to abide by that one.
Three times a week, you know, orday.
It was a day.
Yeah, three times a day.
Yeah, yeah.
Just gotta feed the geese threetimes a day.

(11:38):
It works.
I don't know how uh easily youcan access that on the job.
Uh it's not necessarily sneakoff to a porta potty or a quick
uh dump gas station.
Uh I don't know what's okay.
Okay, so honestly, let's segueinto like the authority and the

(12:01):
limits of your power, becauseyou know, I've I've heard you
mention that you know whenpeople call you for the most
random, often uh trivial thingsto handle, uh they expect you to
have this power to, you know,make decisions an example you
always gave is like if someonemakes a noise complaint, you
know, you can't technically, youknow, make the person stop.

(12:23):
Like can you describe kind ofabout that?
I may be getting some of thatwrong, but you talk about how
power is actually pretty limitedin those trivial situations.

SPEAKER_00 (12:35):
It's funny that the way that I would put it is
people always want us to havemore authority than we do until
we have authority to dosomething, and then they don't,
they, you know, they don't likethat we have authority.
I mean it's it's damned if youdo, damned if you don't.
So a lot of civil issues, and wedon't have any enforcement on
civil issues, right?
Right.
Um, people living together, andI I I don't want to go like too,

(12:58):
too into specifics because Iwant I don't want to give people
ideas, but you know, property isa civil matter.
So we'll have people all thetime that are like, well, that's
that's my property.
They they took it.
I'm like, well, you guys weremarried for 10 years and split
up two days ago, so I'm sorry.
Doesn't really have any it's nota theft, right?

(13:19):
It doesn't constitute rightthat's not criminal, not that
you want to have a civil case.
So people get really upsetbecause they don't understand,
well, this isn't right.
You know, people feel right,people feel inherently when
something like when they've beenwronged or when something isn't
right.
And there's certainly times whenwe as officers look at each
other and we'll go, is therereally nothing we can do?
Like surely there's there'sgotta be something that we can

(13:39):
do.

SPEAKER_02 (13:40):
So sometimes your own morality will kind of
corrupt, like, oh shit, I reallydon't have any power and I know
this might be a wrong situation.
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (13:47):
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 (13:48):
Okay.
That's interesting.
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (13:50):
There's certain things I just don't think law
has caught up with in terms ofcurrent culture and the way that
cell phones are used andinternet's used and stuff like
that.
And so you encounter thingswhere it's like, well, there's a
statute that you would imaginethat would fit this, but that
statute, the language in it, isclearly indicating something

(14:11):
much older, like an older formof communication.

SPEAKER_01 (14:14):
Interesting, okay.

SPEAKER_00 (14:16):
Is not applicable to this, like, new, you know, it's
not new, new, but it's terms ofthe law.
It's like the law hasn't beenupdated to specifically address
stuff.

SPEAKER_02 (14:25):
Oh, you better go answer that.

SPEAKER_00 (14:26):
I think my girlfriend set off the alarm.

SPEAKER_02 (14:28):
You do you need to go get your handcuffs?

SPEAKER_00 (14:31):
We go get my gun up.
Restrain her.
This is my rifle, this is mygun.
But yeah, so we have a lot oftimes people will be upset
because we don't have theability to resolve an issue or
um we don't have probable causeto make an arrest.
Okay, they have criminalallegations, and okay, well, we
don't have we don't have theelements, evidence of the

(14:53):
elements of the crime, so Ican't I can't make an arrest.
I'm not gonna deprive someone oftheir rights just because you
said that they did so, right?
Right.
So, you know, like for instance,you have people all the time,
they'll say, Well, they theythreatened me.
Well, okay, how'd they threatenyou?
Well, they came up at to me andthey yelled at me.
Okay, it's not a crime, I'msorry.

(15:14):
Right.
You know, people are allowed, Imean, people are allowed to be
assholes.
It's not criminal to be anasshole.
Right.
So, you know, there's a lot ofinstances that we encounter
people where, you know,ethically or moral, you know,
morally that was done thatshouldn't have been done,
someone doing something theyshouldn't do.
But that's not we we're notright and wrong enforcers, we're

(15:35):
law and off law enforcement.
So we enforce we enforce law.
So if there's not a law for meto enforce, I can't do anything.
And I mean go ahead.
And then the inverse, like I wassaying, is you got your TikTok
lawyers, people who think thatthey, you know, they know
everything.
And I'll I'll clee in onsomething.

(15:57):
Anytime anybody goes, I know myrights, or you know, you need a
warrant.
It's probably they're probablytelling you that because they're
doing something they shouldn'tdo, right?

SPEAKER_02 (16:06):
Yeah, you would think they would just comply
with what you're saying if theydidn't have anything to hide,
right?

SPEAKER_00 (16:10):
You get people who are, you know, obstinate and
stuff on traffic stops, youknow, they don't want to
cooperate with you or provideyou with their ID and stuff like
that.
Usually I I mean I don't getunless one gets too upset, so
I'm pretty I just tell peoplestraight up what I'm gonna do
very calmly.
Right.
Listen, you know, give me yourID, I'm gonna open your car
door, I'm gonna remove you fromthe vehicle, and then I'm gonna

(16:32):
take you to jail.
So you're armed, I always tellpeople you're armed with the
information you need to make thecorrect decision, so you decide
what we're gonna do.
So, you know, people they'll youknow, they say it all the time,
like, I know my rights, I knowthis and that, like you can't do
this, and actually I I can.
I'm well, I know what myauthority is, I'm operating well

(16:53):
within my authority.
If I tell you to stop and youhave to ID yourself, it's not
I'm not doing it to be anasshole.
I'm doing it because I have ajob to do and I have the
authority to do so in thatmoment.
So better stop an idea.
Yeah, I would I always tellpeople it's better, like even if
you did commit a crime uh andyou're gonna go to jail for it,
better just go to jail for thatone crime and not stack up a

(17:16):
bunch of extra charges.
So people don't want to listen.
I I I'm always very honest withpeople.
I tell people exactly what I'mgonna do.
I I find that it's maybe just meas a person.
I don't use deceptive tactictactics.
Um, not that they can't beeffective in law enforcement.
There's a lot of guys who arevery good at you know, being you

(17:38):
know, um I guess deceptive insome in some way.

SPEAKER_02 (17:43):
Kind of that manipulative manipulative kind
of thing, but not necessarily ina in a bad way.

SPEAKER_00 (17:48):
You know, some people it's you have to you have
to figure out the tools thatwork best for you to catch catch
the bad guys, right?
Right.
So, but me personally, I'malways very candid with people,
and I find that when I am verycandid with people and I tell
people exactly what theiroptions are and exactly what I'm
going to do with each set ofoptions, they typically listen

(18:10):
because I'm not playing around,I have nothing to hide.
Like if I if I have the authorif I have the ability to take
you to jail, then I'm gonna takeyou to jail.

SPEAKER_01 (18:17):
Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 (18:18):
You know what I mean?
Like, I'm not trying to I'm nottrying to like dupe you or like
you know, I also always tellpeople, like, here's what I have
so far.
You know, at this point in time,I have enough evidence to take
you to jail.
However, I want to provide youwith the opportunity to provide
your side of the story.

(18:38):
I want to hear your side of thestory.
Maybe you can provide me with aplausible explanation for you
know what evidence I have sofar.
And I always I'm always I that'sthe truth.
I'm not trying to be right.
I'm not trying to be cunning oranything like that.
Listen, here's what I have sofar.
This is what I've been told,this is the evidence I have.
And if if you don't mind, I'dlike to get your side of the

(19:00):
story so that I can at the veryleast document it and then it's
in writing what you told me.
And if not, then I go off theinformation I have.

SPEAKER_02 (19:08):
So I mean that's that's so that is you know
what's interesting about that isokay, let me ask you this before
I get to that.
You know, you you don't seemlike you're somebody who
struggles with this.
And the fact is, I think thereason people struggle so much
to accept the cops who approachit so logistically and just
direct as you do, is because ofall the things that are out
there saying cops are you knowbad or manipulative or they're

(19:31):
out to get you and all you youknow how it is.
We you and I talked about thatourselves.
But let's uh let me ask youthis.
I mean, do you enjoy having theauthority?
Is that something, and I'm notsaying to abuse it, but does it
feel good in a way to haveauthority?
Uh yeah, absolutely.
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (19:46):
Now, what about that feels good?
Because, you know, we are human,right?
We can look at something andsay, this is wrong, and then I
have the authority to in someway right a wrong, or at least,
you know, provide some level ofclosure on a problem.

(20:08):
Right.
I will tell you the authority isnot always great, though, and is
probably just as often not greatto have.
Because, like I said, we're notright and wrong enforcers, we're
law enforcement, so we have toenforce law.
And I can tell you very oftenthere are circumstances in which
someone has committed a crime.

(20:30):
I have evidence of that crime,but looking at the situation as
a human, like you can understandwhat they did and why they're
doing it.
And so it isn't always, youknow, it doesn't always make
it's not always like feel good,you know.
It's not like you're alwayslike, ah, got the bad guy.
Like sometimes it's like I feelbad for them.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (20:49):
Right, yeah.
I mean, I don't really want totake them to I don't really want
to take them to jail, but well,it's like from human to human,
you probably understand why theydid what they did, right?
Is that what you're kind ofsaying?

SPEAKER_00 (20:58):
Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 (20:59):
Yeah, and I wonder if, you know, when when those
situations arise for you, youknow, the law has to be right
more black and white, correct?
I mean, there can't be a lot ofwaffling in what's this and
what's this.
So it's just like most things,it's it's human, it's the human
side that can corrupt it, right?
So I imagine that would bereally hard to be able to, as a

(21:23):
human with emotions and feelingsand and uh biases, you know, not
necessarily racial or sexist, solet's get that off the table.
We're talking just moral biasesthat right and wrong.
Um that would be really fuckingchallenging.
I would struggle like crazy withthat.

SPEAKER_00 (21:39):
Yeah, and not something I've encountered, but
something that, you know, I've ascenario that I've thought about
and one that could absolutelyhappen is so, for instance,
trespass.
Trespass is one of the mostcommon calls we go to.
Someone's at a business, thatbusiness doesn't want them
there.
Okay.
Business doesn't want you there.
Sorry, you gotta go.
I mean, it's not it it thestatute, the trespass

(22:01):
afterwarding statutes, prettystraightforward.
If the representative of thebusiness or the owner of a
property wants you to leave, youhave to leave.
Right, right.
I don't get to I don't me as lawenforcement, I don't get to make
a I don't have discretion,right?
I'm not so if they ask you toleave and you don't leave, it's
a crime.

(22:21):
I think it's jail.
So imagine a situation where youas a human could understand that
the reason why someone wantssomebody to leave their property
is probably not really morallycorrect or good, right?
And maybe it doesn't fitethically, but it's you know not
an an obvious violation of likecivil rights or anything like
that.
Right.

(22:42):
Me as law enforcement, I got Igotta do my job.

SPEAKER_02 (22:45):
And you gotta put that shit aside and just Yeah,
okay.

SPEAKER_00 (22:47):
Well, I'm sorry.
Um, you know, I'm gonna do I'mgonna do my best to be human and
explain things to people.
Um you know the other day wekicked down a woman's door, you
know, right?
And uh the it's hard to explainto to people um like what level

(23:14):
authority we actually have.
And this is where this was aninstance where we're like,
listen, if you do not open thedoor, we we have we're gonna
force the door open.
So if like just open the door,right?
We're not lying, we're nottrying to fool you.
You know, we're getting a ah,you need a warrant.
And all right, so we gotta goin.
She did commit like threefelonies and had someone held
hostage.

SPEAKER_02 (23:34):
Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 (23:35):
Yeah, it wasn't like movie hostage situation.
Well, rarely anything is, right?
It was a romantic situationwhere someone did want their
girlfriend to leave, and so 911was called, and then there's a
disturbance on the phone, andthen no one can't you know what
I mean.
So yeah, yeah.
I was explaining it to thevictim, who was the girlfriend,

(23:57):
who was upset that her door gotkicked in because they live
there together.
Okay, and I'm like, listen,here's X, Y, and Z.
This is why we had to do what wehad to do.
And if you look at the simplefacts of the case, everything is
true.
You called 911, you were heldhostage, yeah, you were
battered, you couldn't get itout because your keys were
taken, right?

(24:18):
She's like, Yeah, I'm like, soit's you know, like there's
there's a reason why we're doingstuff, but right, kind of going
back, it's like sometimes it'snot always a great, like, feel
good thing to have authority.
Sometimes it absolutely is.
Sometimes it's like, I am soglad I took that guy to jail.
I feel totally I feel this iswhy I'm doing the job.

(24:40):
And other times you'll go,really did not want to take them
to jail.

SPEAKER_02 (24:45):
Well, and gosh, it gets into, you know, when we've
talked about when you do bustsomebody and then it goes to the
attorneys to handle.
And then of course that's awhole other issue.
I know, right?
That's a whole other issue.
I mean, you've got really twoparts of what you say, it
wouldn't be law enforcement, Iguess, but criminal justice
system.

(25:05):
There you go, criminal justicesystem that kind of compete with
each other, right?
Or just don't align so often.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um and you don't have to go intoa lot of detail about that, but
you know, that's just somethingso there's a there can often
some state attorneys are they'rethey're amazing.

SPEAKER_00 (25:24):
They they do their job, they do their job well, and
I will say state attorneys areoverworked.
Oh, I'm sure.
Absolutely overwhelming.
I'm sure they are overworked.
So I understand their situation,but there are so many instances
that I've had where you know youreally uh you kind of feel like
you're fighting for differentteams, and um you you you don't

(25:46):
want that.
You want the victim to likethere's sometimes the victim's
like, you know, genuinely avictim, and like they really
deserve uh the state attorney togo after prosecution, in my
opinion, right?

SPEAKER_02 (25:59):
Oh, right, yeah.
Yeah, true, true.

SPEAKER_00 (26:02):
So it's rarely do things go to go to trial, they
either plead or they getdropped.
And there's so many, so, so manytimes where you'll get it's
called a no-file letter.
You'll get a no-file letterindicating that the state
attorney's not gonna proceedwith charges, and you'll be
like, I don't understand likewhat about this they think isn't

(26:23):
pro like what you wouldn't beable to prosecute on.
And like you do so much work.
It's always like on the casesyou're doing like all these
follow-ups and interviews, andyou're you're doing subpoenas,
and then it's like, ah, we don'thave enough to prosecute.
I just had one recently, I putout charges for somebody, and it
was a lot of work.
The crime occurred in April, andI just put out charges last

(26:43):
week, so I can almost guaranteeyou this is probably gonna get
dropped, you know.

SPEAKER_02 (26:47):
And that's gosh, not only would that be difficult for
the officers, right?
Because you know, you're puttingall this work in and not
guaranteed follow-through withlegitimate cases, but then
you've got the the victimsthemselves who can't always feel
comfortable that they're gonnaget the justice they're owed.
Well, correct.
So or am I painting that alittle pessimistic?

SPEAKER_00 (27:07):
No, I mean the the issue okay, I'll I'll touch on
two different topics.
So one is it makes lawenforcement officers, we will be
we'll be the the state attorneybefore we ever even get to the
point where we have probablecause for arrest.
We'll go, I mean, every time youhear this on calls, well, the
state attorney won't evenprosecute on this anyways.
Rather than rather than us justand it's not it's not like and

(27:31):
it's not really like anintentional thing.
We're not trying to like it'sjust the feeling of like state
attorney's probably gonna dropthis anyways.
So like what's the point ofputting so much work into it?
Because they're gonna drop it.
And you you hear that a lot.
Uh even I I I say it sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 (27:46):
It's like, you you know, state attorney's gonna
drop this, but I'm gonna do myI'm gonna do my part, and then
they just know that there's notgonna be follow through.

SPEAKER_00 (27:55):
The other thing that you're talking about as far as
victims, there's absolutelytimes when victims are just they
don't get what is they don't getthe justice that they they
deserve.
But I always say rarely do youget a good victim.
Meaning, rarely do you getsomebody who is a victim of a
crime.
Hey, thumbs up.
Thumbs up, hey little emojipopped up.

(28:16):
Rarely do you get a victim of acrime that is just perfect.
Right?
Oh yeah, I'm sure.
You know, they're they're superlike cooperative with
prosecution, they you know, theydon't have like life
circumstances that prevent themfrom being like really engaged
with the case, or you they'reyou know, people who you have

(28:37):
plenty of victims that do thingsand say things that kind of
breaks your case because it'slike you know so to clarify,
you're not saying you're notsaying imperfect victims as you
know they were a hundred percentwronged in that situation.

SPEAKER_02 (28:55):
Like they are the victim of what happened to them.
You're saying not ideal victimsas far as how they can
contribute to their actual case,right?
Okay, that's what I want to say.
Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 (29:07):
Yeah, exactly.
Um, so you a lot of times youhave victims that they're just
not they're not good victims.
I I I don't mean that they'renot good people, I just mean
like in terms of being a victim,you know, they're not they don't
check all the like the perfectboxes, they're not, you know,
you know uh middle America, youknow, so and so and well you're
talking education, you'retalking class, you know.

SPEAKER_02 (29:28):
I think that's all fair to say.
Absolutely.
Not the individual's fault.

SPEAKER_00 (29:32):
And people who are used to being victims, anyways.
And about you know, I mean theseare people that are that are
interacting with the system,right?
Yeah, they're interacting withthe system in some way a lot.
So they either like already havedistrust in the system or
whatever the case may be.
So it's really hard to get likea good victim in a case.
Uh and the state attorneys, theythey encounter that, and hey, I

(29:56):
have an uncooperative victim, Ican get the victim on the phone,
dropping charges.
So interesting.
Okay, okay the the one thingthat I talk about all the time,
so anything domestic related, doyou know what domestic means?
Or should I def kind of likedefine it?
I would define it.

SPEAKER_02 (30:14):
You and I have talked, so I know, but go ahead.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (30:16):
So so anything that's domestic, it's gonna be
someone who is a family memberor someone who you've lived with
as though they are a familymember.
Okay.
Okay.
So they could be blood related,you could have a child in common
with them, you could be in aromantic relationship, and the
romantic domestics are kind ofthe key one.
We in the state of Florida haveman we have to if we have

(30:39):
probable cause for any kind ofromantic domestic related
offense, we are mandatory, wehave to make that arrest.
Okay.
And I totally agree with it.
All right, because we are notgoing to leave a victim, even if
it's a minor battery, we're notgonna leave a victim with an
offender in which they have aromantic relationship, they

(31:03):
reside together.
Even if they say, I'll just go,I'll leave, blah, blah, blah,
doesn't no.
Because they're gonna come rightback.

SPEAKER_02 (31:09):
Okay.
So you have to put a firm stopto that situation.
Absolutely.
Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 (31:14):
Any domestic any any romantic domestic related
offense, straight to jail.

unknown (31:20):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (31:20):
Straight to jail.
So this is where my my pet peeveis when it comes to prosecution,
is that that same uh that samerule does not apply to them.

SPEAKER_02 (31:33):
Oh, okay, I gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 (31:35):
We we will have a domestic situation.
When I say we don't have a goodvictim, I mean we have an
incredibly uncooperative victim.
Right?
That that's my husband.
You're you can't take him tojail.
You guys are you know, motherthey're m motherfucking us the
entire time, right?
Right.
Because we're arresting theperson that just battered them.

SPEAKER_02 (31:53):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (31:54):
These are not cooperative, these are not
cooperative victims, and they'renever going to be cooperative
victims.
So I arrest them and then thosecharges are dropped, and that
person is right back living thatindividual, right?
Yeah, so explain to me how thatmakes sense.
I'd have to I have to arrestthem and charge them with an

(32:15):
offense, but then there is no umrequirement, to my knowledge.
Hell, if I'm if I'm wrong,somebody let me know.
But to my knowledge, there isabsolutely no requirement for
prosecution.
There's no mandatory prosecutionon something that's domesti
related.
And we have at times like reallyserious um like batteries that
occur uh on on victims that aredomestic related.

(32:39):
Okay, we're just gonna let thatgo.
We're gonna let that person go.
I I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 (32:45):
So you explain the situation where the person who
is getting battered doesn't wantyou to take the individual, the
aggressor, out of the home,right?

SPEAKER_00 (32:53):
Yeah, all the time.
Well, you gotta always rememberthese people are not only
emotionally connected, they'refinancially connected to their,
you know, their abuser orwhatever you want to refer to as
well.

SPEAKER_02 (33:03):
Right, right.
So I guess, you know, I mean,that situation, I mean, by
default would be verycomplicated.
You know, you may be, you know,if you're mentioning being
romantically involved orfinancially involved, it it, you
know, it seems like, oh, I'mgetting the shit kicked out of
me, I should get out or get themout, but it it is so much deeper
than that.
You know, and that's so sad thatyou know people will be willing

(33:25):
to go through getting the shitkicked out of them just to what
save the the burden of having togo through the rigmarole of
everything outside of it.
Or maybe you know, it could be asafety thing too.
It like it's just so fuckingcomplicated.
It's so so much deeper than justthe the physical altercation,
right?
I mean those are complicatedsituations.

SPEAKER_00 (33:45):
And you see the same people where I work, it's a big
it's it's a city, it's not ahuge city, small footprint, lots
of people.
So we do see the same peopleover and over and over again.
And the number of times I go, solast time we talked, I thought
you were you were done, you'regetting out of this
relationship.
Ah, well, they were, you know,they were being nice to me and

(34:05):
we were good.
We were good for like twomonths.

SPEAKER_02 (34:08):
Well, gosh, I mean, let's let's even let's not go
the battery route, but how manypeople have that in just
everyday relationships, right?
I mean, it's like, oh, I'm gonnaleave if they do this ever
again.
And it's like, all right, theperson, all right, I I good, I
got this.
And then, you know, three monthslater, they're doing the same
shit again.
You get stuck in that rut.
I think you get comfortable inthat misery, right?

(34:29):
Or get comfortable in your rut.
I mean, no matter what that is,it's the steady, it's the
stagnant.

SPEAKER_00 (34:34):
Yeah.
I mean, I so I did the samething.
I mean, I wasn't in a physicallyabusive relationship or anything
like that, but you know, it'slike wasn't a good relationship,
and you make the same argumentsand excuses and right, because
of the of the fear of thechange, right?

SPEAKER_02 (34:53):
Is the change the biggest, the worst part of it?
It's just that you know, you'rewith somebody for so long,
you've invested, and I'm notsaying you specifically, but
you've invested so much time andenergy and money and your
situations just so wrapped up inone another that I would
imagine, because I'm I'm notgone through this myself.
I've I've got a pretty good one,but you know, I imagine that the
change, that drastic life changeis one of the scariest parts

(35:15):
about Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (35:17):
Uh for me it was kind of coping with the feeling
of failure, I think was a big, abig thing for me.
Right.
So kind of like giving up andsaying, okay, I can't, I can't
do it.
I can't make this work.
And then now that I'm out of it,the best decision you made,

(35:38):
right?
Hands down.

SPEAKER_02 (35:40):
But that's the thing, is is getting through
that nightmare of a period thatthat you did or many others do
to get to the light at the endof the tunnel, right?
And so many people don't havethe strength or capability of
doing that.

SPEAKER_00 (35:53):
Yeah.
I mean, I was perfectly capableof getting out of my situation,
and I didn't have you know, Iwasn't financially dependent on
the person and getting right assbeat by them every every night,
you know.
So I mean it's I understand it,which is why I bring up why
don't we have why does stateattorneys not have the same

(36:14):
requirement that we do?

SPEAKER_02 (36:15):
You know?
I agree.
That that's an interesting kindof double standard.
That's interesting.
But I guess that you know, as wementioned, I guess established
before is that they are separateentities.
You know, so they they sh Iguess they're not bound by the
same, you know, rules.
Oh wow, okay.
That was good.
I really liked that.
That was really good, Brian.

SPEAKER_00 (36:35):
I like the stuff.

SPEAKER_02 (36:37):
I know that's that's why I was really wanting you on
here, because I thought you'reso you're so collected about it
and so educated and just soprofessional.
I thought you'd be perfect.
Um, and I think boy, this is aperspective that you just don't
see out there much.
You know, you get, as youmentioned, people recording
these things, and you get theTikTok lawyers, and then you
also get do people really knowwhat the fuck they're talking
about, as you mentioned, youknow what I'm saying?

(36:58):
So it's like that's why Ithought this would be so good.
Okay, so kind of going into, youknow, we talked about how cops
are people just like anybodyelse, and I want to get into
that a little bit more evenlater, maybe.
But so you've heard me talk tocertain guests on the podcast,
and unfortunately, a bigstereotype of police officers is

(37:19):
the racism, the sexism, and allof that, which I know that very
much triggers you to be prettyupset when that is so much out
there.
And you know, I mean, nowfucking TikTok is blown up with
the racism AI cop stuff.
You know, it's like I'll take mycoffee black.
Did you say black bam?

(37:40):
You know, I mean, it's I mean, Igotta admit, I it's a good joke,
right?
But the problem is it's one ofthose things where it's so out
there, it's just all we'reseeing, you know, and that
combined with the actual realfootage of things happening, you
know, it can't help but get usin our heads, right?
It can't help but kind of beburied in there that, oh, cops

(38:04):
are just racist assholes orsexist and and all this stuff.
So I guess what I want to ask ishow common actually is that?

SPEAKER_00 (38:12):
So I guess the way I would probably So, first of all,
I am someone who is prettycentrist, right?
I'm a cop.
I'm not like I wouldn't reallyconsider myself like
conservative or liberal oranything like that.
Pretty moderate.
Pretty moderate person.
I don't really get too intopolitics.
There is a difference in my Youwent through your period.

SPEAKER_02 (38:32):
You definitely went through your period.
I yes, yeah.
Can I just establish real quickthat most of us are in the
middle somewhere?
But anyway.

SPEAKER_00 (38:42):
I I say that even people who even people who
identify it themselves as likeconservatives and Republicans,
would you really hear them talkabout it?
You should like haveconversations with people.
They don't more in the middle.
I know it's not you know, it'sbig topics.
Okay, we're divided on those,but you start to get to like the
more like you know, lessdiscussed topics, and we're all

(39:02):
a little bit like, yeah, youknow, fucking eggs are expensive
for some reason.
We maybe should deal with those,you know.
We all hey fucking ate that.
You know, it's interesting.
We're all living the we all havethe same bills to pay and
everything like that.

SPEAKER_02 (39:13):
And that's exactly it is getting back to just the
human side of it rather thanhaving to align with all these
yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_00 (39:21):
So what I what I was gonna say is like, um, you know,
there's like the the memes andstuff like that, they poke a fun
at it.
It's it's absurd and blah blahblah.
And it th that's funny.
Like those the stuff is it's uhin my opinion, objectively
funny.
So you find it funny.
Okay, okay.
I think it's hilarious.
The the the guy who was likeshot up the cop car because an

(39:42):
acorn fell on it, and all thememes that came out after that
and the jokes.
I mean, that is good content.
That stuff is is so funny.
Now there's a reality, right,that's being referenced in it,
and the issue that I have is theabsolute way that that people
talk about it.
Like the fact that it's anabsolute truth, right?

(40:02):
Right.
They're cops, cop every copsjust get up in the morning, we
look at our to-do list, and itsays, beat up black people.

SPEAKER_02 (40:10):
All right.

SPEAKER_00 (40:11):
Just gotta arrest one black person today.
With Mexicans, you know, likethat's right.
That's our our to-do list as wego out and we just out here just
you know, just right.
So that Is so far from thereality.
Okay.
If if you if you're someone wholike has an idea that it's this
huge conspiracy or this um sitlike this, I don't know,

(40:35):
coordinated systematic method ofgoing out and like, you know,
targeting specific groups ofpeople.
We you know we take we have morelike like training, I guess, on
racial discrimination andprofiling and like in in uh
inherent biases and stuff thatwe have.
We have those trainings all thetime, right?
I imagine it's something thatit's something that like it's

(40:56):
talked about quite a lot.
It's something we're very awareof, right?
Because while it's totally, Ithink, ridiculous to be like,
ah, cops are out here beatingpeople up for you know, just
attacking black people for noreason, there is a reality that
exists.
There is an aspect of it that istrue in terms of you know, your

(41:18):
uh I can't think of the exactword, but you're like your
ingrain bias or anything likethat, right?
Right, right.
So those things exist.
And then like any job, any job,you have people who are good at
your at their job, and you havepeople who are really bad at
their job and shouldn't be doingthe job.
There are plenty of times, and Ihave no problem, no problem
calling out cops who do shitthat they should not do.

(41:42):
And most cops don't have aproblem doing that.
Uh, because why would we wantsomeone like that in our field?

SPEAKER_02 (41:49):
Right?
Well, yeah, who's got your backor helping you in these
situations?
Yeah, they're gonna fuck you up.

SPEAKER_00 (41:55):
I don't want somebody who's fucking racist
and wants to go out and just youknow be discriminatory and do
stuff.
That's not why I don't want tobe responsible for their
actions.
Right.
Right?
Why would we want that in thiscareer?
That doesn't make any sense.
Like if you really think aboutit, it doesn't make any sense,

(42:15):
right?
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (42:16):
That's not to say can I can I even throw this out
there that I would say racism inlaw enforcement would be far
more inconvenient, and I'mtalking among your constituents
than it would be in most otherprofessions because of exactly
what you just mentioned?
Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 (42:31):
It would be far more inconvenient.
Think about it.
Any any given day that I go intowork, I could shoot and kill
someone.
Right?
I am dependent and relying on myfellow officers for everything
that I do.
I don't do anything by myself.
I have to be confident in mypartner's ability to make

(42:52):
decisions and make legal sounddecisions.
Why would I want somebody who isoutwardly objectively racist,
going out here, violatingpeople's rights so that I can go
to so that I can get, I don'tknow, go to jail or you know,
because I come running, I and II talk about this all the time.
When we go into a situation, wedo not have the information.

(43:15):
Everybody can look at itafterwards and whatever.
Right.
If I have if I am responding toa situation where I have an
officer, fellow officer who's insome kind of fight, I don't have
I don't have informationpretending.
I might not know what call he'son, I just know where he's at
and he's calling for help.
I show up, someone's fightinghim, we rough the guy up because

(43:35):
it's physical force and physicalforce isn't pretty.
Right.
And we hurt somebody because itcan absolutely happen.
Me doing my job in good faith,well within what I am perceiving
to be uh, you know, the thewithin the scope of my
authority.

SPEAKER_01 (43:51):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (43:51):
And then, you know, it turns out that he did this
other officer did something thathe absolutely should not have
done, and then I'm the one whoresponds, and then is the the
other cop on the video, youknow, doing violating someone's
rights.
Right.
I don't I don't want to be thatperson, right?
I don't want to to you know beresponding or like assisting

(44:12):
people who are making baddecisions.
Right.
So there is no no part, no onein this field wants somebody who
is reckless or discriminatory orviolating people's rights.
In fact, we in our in our field,uh we are so heavily
scrutinized, you tell me anotherfield where you have so many

(44:33):
eyes constantly watching you,not just the general public, but
your supervisors.
Our body cams are randomlyaudited.
Right?
So any at any point there couldbe something that you said on a
call that no one ever brought upand then gets audited by a
supervisor, and then all of asudden you're in you're in hot

(44:54):
water.
So I promise you, no one in thisfield wants someone who is
reckless, discriminatory,violating people's rights.
Because that's not why we'rethere, okay?
It's it's a job at the end ofthe day.

SPEAKER_02 (45:10):
So that's not to say Well, you can't say it doesn't
exist, right?

SPEAKER_00 (45:15):
Yeah, that's not to say it does not exist.
It's not to say that you know,people don't have like a bias,
whether it's conscious or youknow, like intentional or not.
Right?
And also you you deal withdifferent groups of people,
right, all the time.
So I deal with you know, peoplewhite people that live in

(45:38):
trailer parks and are alwaysdrunk and fucking each other up,
and I I deal with the Hispanicsare always drunk and fucking
each other up, and I deal withthe the you know the African
American individuals that areyou know, you know, right it is
I'm interacting with these thescope, the spectrum of different

(46:02):
kinds of people and stuff likethat every single day.
Every single day, and cops go onhundred.
I mean, I don't know how manycalls cops go on an average day,
like as far as the nation goes.
You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 (46:16):
Oh, I I yeah, I can imagine.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (46:18):
So different cultures have different ways of
behaving and talking andinteracting with law
enforcement, they have differentperspectives on law enforcement,
you know what I mean?
Yeah, I will tell you if you gointo a predominantly black
neighborhood, they're generallynot very cooperative with us.
Okay.
That's probably because theydon't have a very positive
opinion of law enforcement.

(46:39):
So who are typically moreantagonistic can be those, you
know, people from those thoseareas.

SPEAKER_02 (46:45):
So you know, but it's more about the area than it
is their race, correct?
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, and that's the importantdistinction, right?
So I mean, kind of what we'resaying here is one bad egg is
spoiling the whole bunch.
Correct.
Just like any other thing.
You know, you got a a veryselected minority of cops or
whatever situation who areviolating, you know, rights

(47:09):
based on race.
Yet that is an incredibleminority.
And unfortunately, that justtaints it for everybody.
So you're all, you know, happy.

SPEAKER_00 (47:17):
I think I think there are people in this field
who can have, you know, they'rehuman too.
They watch TikTok videos andthey get their opinions and
their ideas of how the worldoperates, and they're absolutely
can be, you know, whetherthey're aware of it or not, like
a bias there.
And so they may, you know,unintentionally, intentionally
behave differently withdifferent groups of people.

SPEAKER_02 (47:40):
Well, so Ryan, Ryan.

SPEAKER_00 (47:42):
Yes, we're all a little racist.
You know, without saying it,that is that's kind of what I'm
getting at.
Like everyone has why I said it.
Everyone has folks.
Everyone has a different lifeexperience, they have different
upbringings, they have differentperspectives on the world, and
it's not to say that they areconsciously or maliciously doing
anything, but there's people'sperspectives on the how things

(48:05):
are.
I very intentionally, I'm nottrying to like sound like I'm
better than anybody, I veryintentionally try to be aware of
like whatever bias I might have.

SPEAKER_02 (48:15):
You know, like well, okay, that's a good segue
because I was gonna ask you ifit's okay.

SPEAKER_00 (48:20):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (48:21):
Have you are you nervous when you have to go into
a situation what's predominantlyanother race?
And like, let's say you'reyou're responding to a call that
um black people are involved,and then are you worried, like,
oh shit, does it ever enter yourhead like if I have to arrest
somebody or whatever, that ohshit, okay, I gotta do my job,
but this person's black or thisperson's Hispanic.

(48:43):
Does that ever cross your head?
No.

unknown (48:45):
No.

SPEAKER_02 (48:46):
That's what I figured.

SPEAKER_00 (48:47):
Because I'm confident in in my decision
making, right?
I'm confident.

SPEAKER_02 (48:51):
Yeah, because you you see be in I sounds like a
huge majority of policemen seebeyond any of that.
It's about the the situation.

SPEAKER_00 (49:01):
You know, like as a cop going into, like I said,
like a predominantly blackneighborhood, like when you go
there and you you encounter likesome level of hostility, and I
won't even say it's likenecessarily hostility, it's like
they just don't want to talk tous, they don't like really want
to interact with us, right?
Right.
So, you know, if we're in asituation where we have we don't
have a choice, we have to dosome kind of enforcement, right?

(49:21):
That that can cause tensions togo pretty quick.
Sure, sure.
Yeah, so just like keeping thatin mind, but I don't treat and
no one I know treats anyonedifferently because of their
race.
We're gonna treat everyone'sbaseline is the same.
I'm gonna start I'm gonna treatyou, whatever you give me, I'm
giving you back.
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (49:41):
I know you've said that a lot.
That's a big mantra of yours.

SPEAKER_00 (49:44):
I so I'm confident in my decision making, and I
know that I'm not there toharass them because of their
skin color.
I'm there because there's alegitimate reason for me to be
there.
And well, you're not there toharass them, period.

SPEAKER_02 (49:59):
Yeah, so that's not your job.

SPEAKER_00 (50:01):
So I the number of times that I hear that I am
racist or this or that, or I'mI'm profiling them, or I'm
arresting them because they'reblack, that's all the time.
I'm not worried what otherpeople do.

unknown (50:17):
Right?

SPEAKER_00 (50:17):
I don't care what other people say or other people
do, I'm confident my decisionmaking, and I'm confident that
when I go into those situations,I'm going to handle that
situation no differently than Iwould any other situation.
Right.
Most of the time, peopledetermine the outcome of a call.
Really.

SPEAKER_02 (50:36):
I mean, people makes the call determines the outcome
of it or No, I mean like the waypeople behave determines how
that that call ends up workingout.

SPEAKER_00 (50:46):
Because like I said, if you if I have to take you to
jail for something, I'm gonnatake you to jail, there's not
any minds or butts about it.
Yeah, it's not like there'sanother situation you can just
talk your way out of or fightyour way out of.
Right.
So, you know, it it doesn't makesense to me.
People always do it, but it'slike you get into a fight with

(51:07):
cops and you try to run fromthem, or you you know, you do 10
other things and catch like youturn a misdemeanor into a felony
and all this all this stuff forfor no reason.
Most of the time, people they'rethe ones who are pretty much
dictating how these these callsgo.
Because, hey, like this doorthat we kicked in the other day,
hey, we just need to talk toyou, we need to make sure
everyone's okay inside.

(51:27):
Honestly, she probably wouldn'thave gone to jail.
And then she ended up catchinglike four felonies.
So you know, what when I go tothose if I go into a situation
and you know they're it's an allblack family or dispute or
whatever, it literally makes nodifference to me whatsoever.
I may be just more, you know, Imight be I might appreciate the

(51:51):
you know cultural relationship,societal relationship between
police and African Americans,you know.
I keep that in mind.

SPEAKER_02 (51:59):
Really any any non-Caucasian denomination at
this point.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (52:08):
Yeah.
So I mean that's always there.
I'm always aware of it, and Imake sure to always kind of be
aware of and like appreciatethat situation, but that has no
bearing on like what I do,because what I do is not going
to be any different than it'sjust me as a person.
Like I'm not gonna be anydifferent.

SPEAKER_02 (52:24):
Well, and can I can I say that you're more aware of
those situations because therespect you want to show the
individuals, not because you'reafraid of the repercussions of
arresting somebody of adifferent race.
Would that be fair to say?

SPEAKER_00 (52:37):
That would be well well put.

SPEAKER_02 (52:39):
Okay, good.
Well articulated.
That's another thing that Ithink is you know, it's it's not
about that you're worried aboutyour own the outcome of the
situation, it's that hey, I Ineed to show you that it doesn't
matter anything other thanwhat's going on, the situation
that's the same.

SPEAKER_00 (52:54):
And I will tell you, I know this is like a whole like
white people thing, like on theinternet, like blah blah blah,
but on more than one occasion,in uniform, I've been invited to
the cookout.
I'm just saying.
So I typically get along prettywell with people.
Oh, that's funny.
And I'll be honest, you wannawanna you wanna know who are the

(53:14):
most annoying people to dealwith?
It is people who are never beenin trouble before.
People who have never been introuble before think they are so
entitled, it's crazy.
They are so entitled.
You know, I voted for Trump andyou're doing this to me.
Like, I do not think you getthat voted for, right?

(53:36):
So I'll be honest, likesometimes people who are pretty
used to like dealing with lawenforcement, they're kind of
easy to deal with because theyknow the game, they know that if
they run their mouth, they gointo jail.

SPEAKER_02 (53:49):
That's so really funny.

SPEAKER_00 (53:52):
Sometimes, like really entitled people, they're
they're the problems.

SPEAKER_02 (53:56):
That's so interesting.
I love that perspective.
My goodness, that's great.