April 9, 2025 • 32 mins
✨ What if your child’s “daydreaming” on the sidelines was actually self-regulation in action?
In this episode of Beautifully Complex, I’m joined by Shawna Rosenzweig, CEO of Campfire, for a real-talk conversation about rethinking success and valuing our kids for who they are, not what they do.
We unpack how our cultural obsession with productivity often misses the mark — especially for neurodivergent kids. From challenging perfectionism to navigating sensory overwhelm and learning to follow our kids’ lead, this episode is a must-listen for any parent ready to shift from performance to personhood.
Whether your kid is struggling with school, friendships, or emotional regulation, this episode offers insight, hope, and practical tools.
Listen now and let’s reimagine childhood together.
You can find additional resources at parentingadhdandautism.com and Regulated Kids.com — because it’s not just about the struggles, it’s about progress, one step at a time.
Show notes and more resources at parentingadhdandautism.com/305
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/beautifully-complex--6137613/support.
In this episode of Beautifully Complex, I’m joined by Shawna Rosenzweig, CEO of Campfire, for a real-talk conversation about rethinking success and valuing our kids for who they are, not what they do.
We unpack how our cultural obsession with productivity often misses the mark — especially for neurodivergent kids. From challenging perfectionism to navigating sensory overwhelm and learning to follow our kids’ lead, this episode is a must-listen for any parent ready to shift from performance to personhood.
Whether your kid is struggling with school, friendships, or emotional regulation, this episode offers insight, hope, and practical tools.
Listen now and let’s reimagine childhood together.
You can find additional resources at parentingadhdandautism.com and Regulated Kids.com — because it’s not just about the struggles, it’s about progress, one step at a time.
Show notes and more resources at parentingadhdandautism.com/305
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/beautifully-complex--6137613/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
So in some ways, I think it has to do
with goals, right, both asking ourselves as the adults and
young people's lives, like what is our goal for this
young person, but hopefully also what is this young person's
goal for themselves? Right, and then recognizing there are multiple
pathways to get there.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Welcome to the Beautifully Complex podcast, where I share insights
and strategies on parenting neurodivergent kids straight from the trenches.
I'm your host, Penny Williams. I'm a parenting coach, author
and mindset mama, honored to guide you on the journey
of raising your atypical kid. Let's get started. Welcome back, everybody.
(00:45):
I am so excited to be have any conversation today
with Shauna Rosenswag, who is the CEO of Campfire, which
we are going to learn all about in this conversation
as well, and we're going to talk about really prioritizing
personhood over productivity over performance, which in my opinion, is
(01:09):
a cultural shift that we need to be making for everyone,
but especially for our neurodivergent kids who struggle with finding
where they fit, who struggle with recognizing their authenticity or
feeling like they're safe to be their authentic selves. So
we're going to unpack some of these concepts and ideas
(01:30):
with Shauna, and I'm really excited to get into it.
But Shauna, will you start by letting everybody know who
you are and what you do.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Yeah, So thank you for having me today. So I'm SHAWNA. Rosenswag.
I'm the CEO of Campfire and Campfire is an inclusive
youth development organization that connects young people to the outdoors,
to others, and to themselves. And you know, I've really
grown up in youth development, right, both as a young
person who attended after school pro and day camps and
(02:01):
overnight camps, and that was how I thought you worked
with young people, right, And I just enjoyed being with
young people. And so that was my high school job,
my college job, and I didn't realize I could make
a profession out of it, though, and so I saw
a lot of ways. I feel very fortunate that I
have had the opportunity to work for a number of
amazing organizations that really focus on supporting young people in
(02:24):
the out of.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
School time space.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
So that's really my area of interest and passion, and
I should add I'm also a parent of two young
people who are eight and ten. So when I'm not
in my role as CEO, i am very much in
my role as parent.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Awesome such needed work in the world, and I always
love chatting with people who are really looking to help
our youth find their place and find their purpose. It
is more difficult, I think now than ever. Would you agree?
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Slowly?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, you talk some about centering youth as whole people,
not just looking at them like students or performers or
a productive part of society. For people who are used
to though focusing on that productivity that process, like parents, Right,
we're looking for milestones for looking for our kids to
(03:22):
graduate and go to college, and all these things that
we've been taught are the only path, even though we
know they're not. How can we help people start to
shift that mindset from really thinking about the accomplishments to
thinking about the person as a whole.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
So the first thing that I always like to both
remind myself, you know, and others is you know, to
put ourselves in the in the vantage point of young people, right.
And so I think it's very easy as adults to
think about young people through one lens based on where
they are, right, it has to do a school we
think of them solely as a student. If it has
(04:03):
to do with you know, young people at home, it
has to do with them as our child. And for
young people, their lives are a lot more fluid, right,
They're moving holy and holistically through those spaces, and I
think it's really important for us to remember that as well.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
So, you know, when I think about Campfire, and you know,
many of our after school programs, young people are coming
to us from the school day. They are not necessarily saying,
oh now I'm taking off my hat as student and
transitioning into my role as after school program participant. No, Right,
they are experiencing their days and their lives fully and holistically,
(04:40):
and I think that's really important for us to remember
as well. Right, they are coming into whatever that space,
that transition between spaces, with the lived experience that they've
had that day.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
So you know, I often think about, you know, as
a parent, and it's so easy to fall into this,
right thinking about them in those contents. So you're such
a hard worker or great job getting your homework done
on time, because those are the milestones, right, as you
named that we're working through in whatever that setting and
instead kind of thinking about, right, who is this young
(05:13):
person and who do we see them kind of remain
consistently or who are they trying on?
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Right?
Speaker 1 (05:19):
So much of youth development is them discovering who they
are right and developing their interests, their passions, their identities,
and so helping them recognize that right as they move
through different spaces and places, you know, and again so
often that is I think what's incredibly hard for us
and with all the societal pressures around us, but it's
(05:39):
space to just be right that. It's like those transition
times are actually in some ways the most beautiful because
they tend to be the least structured. Yeah right, Yeah,
So giving them the space right to just be in
the car as they are transitioning, or to you know,
be with their friends on the bus as they are
you know, coming to or from school, then in a
(05:59):
lot of ways, those.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Are where then developmental magic happens.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
They also can be you know, also some of the
riskier spaces, you know, teazing or bullying, but recognizing that
those are spaces really where young people can blossom and
recognize kind of who they are and who they want
to be among the peers and you know, the other
folks in their lives.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
We tend to overschedule our kids, and I think again
it's that mindset of giving them all the opportunities and
making sure they do all the things they're good at,
all the things, which I think is sometimes detrimental not
just for them, but for us too. Like if we're
over scheduled as the parent, it's also really difficult to
(06:43):
connect with our kids, to have that time and space
to really get to know them, and I think that's
so important in helping to guide them sort of. I
always think about like guiding them from afar almost because
we really want them to lead. Do you agree with
that that it's really important to give them that space
(07:06):
but also to follow where they're going in those times?
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Absolutely? So.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
I think the both the voice and choice are kind
of the language we tend to use our programs in
terms of letting young people guide their experience. And I'll
give you a real world example where you know, I
found myself kind of caught in that moment, right And
so you know, this weekend, you know, my son had
a sports game and he was, you know, standing on
(07:30):
the sideline staring up towards the sky, you know, And
as a parent, I'm like, why.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Isn't he engaged?
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Like, come on, how is he going to get playing time?
And and I could feel right like within me the
stress and the tension building, and it was an interesting
moment to pause and say, okay, like how would I
advise this in our programs? And one of the things
we often talk about, especially in outdoor settings, the opportunity
to look up right really helps you reregulate yourself.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
And so maybe he.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Needed in that moment that reregulation right, to be able
to kind of rebalance reset himself, and that was actually
very soothing and centering for him. He may not have
been stressed thinking why am I not plying whatever? He
may actually have been having a really nice moment to
kind of re establish himself in that setting, or to
be present in that setting, you know. And I'm the
(08:22):
parent on the sideline who's having the opposite experience.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Right, And again, I think.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
An opportunity to think about, Okay, how can I observe
the young people in my lives to let them lead
as opposed to when am I trying to steer right?
As opposed to how can I think about keeping them
on the road, you know, but some beering is okay, right,
and responding to what they need in those various moments
I think can be really important and a lot of
(08:48):
times it is that that space to simply be right,
whether it's downtime or to decide how they're using their
free time, or yeah, to resist the urge to fill
every possible moment again looking for I think the breaks
and the transitions, even within the structured activities can be
incredibly important as well.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Yeah, and how do we sort of strike that balance?
You know, as parents were driven by those outside voices
coming in that say this is the path to achievement,
this is the path to you know whatever, health and happiness.
And then on the other side, we have a neurodivergent
kid who you know doesn't necessarily.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Not fit.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
I'm not going to use the word fit, but you know,
they need a different path often, right, they need a
different journey. And it's really tough to separate ourselves from
those outside voices and really listen to what we know
about our kids and asking those questions, like noticing, like
(09:53):
you were just saying, maybe it's something else entirely right
now in this moment he's actually regulating himself so he
can be more invested in the game when he's back
in the game. Right, how do we get to a
mindset where we can start to notice those things and
ask those questions to really be able to steer away
from this productivity sort of attitude and perspective.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
So, in some ways, I think it has to do
with goals, right, both asking ourselves as you know, the
adults and young people's lives, like what is our goal
for this young person? But hopefully also what is this
young person's goal for themselves? Right, and then recognizing there
are multiple pathways to get there.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Right.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
So, in many of our overnight camp settings, one of
the changes we made to the environment to the space, right,
Dining halls can be very overwhelming, right, They are sensory
overload for a number of reasons, you know, I think
top of the list being the volume in there can
be incredibly overwhelming. And part of what we had to
(10:56):
ask ourselves, you know, as a summer camp provider, is
what's the goal? Right, what's the goal of meal time?
And ultimately right, like if you were to ask me,
it's about connection, right, It's about young people building connection
with each other, and then what are the pathways to
get there that it's not everyone having to eat in
a noisy dining hall together to build connection. That actually
(11:18):
there are multiple pathways, and so one of the changes
that we've made is making sure that there are alternative
eating spaces outside the dining hall that are quieter. And
again there's still opportunities to build connection, but there's a
different path to it. Right or again, we often see
you know, water used for team building activities right some
(11:41):
weeks where you know, water is much more prevalent again,
can be from a sensory perspective very overwhelming.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Very overloading.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Are there ways to communicate and to create alternative pathways
towards the same goal that all young people have it
so like, what's the dry version of this activity? Right? Right,
and ultimately still leads folks to feeling the same accomplishments,
the same connections. And again I think that has really
changed how we think about what an enriching activity looks
(12:13):
like or what the goal is. And also naming for
young people, what is it that they.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Are looking to get out of this experience? Right?
Speaker 1 (12:20):
And oftentimes right we hear it is maybe it is
the chance to just be with my friends or to
be in nature.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Right.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Oftentimes for our older young people, it's the chance to
get off their phones right, and that in and of
itself feels very calming and recharging. And so thinking about again, like,
both as the adults creating that space.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
What's our goal for this young person and for.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
The young person, how can we be having that same
conversation and processing through what is their goal? Because I
think oftentimes when people surprise us in terms of what
we think their goal is and what their actual goal
is is not always the same.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
So yeah, we need to ask, we need to not
just make assumptions, but we need to also ask our kids,
what is your goal? What do you want to get
out of this? And I kind of I saw in
what you were saying sort of this three step process
that I think adults can use in questioning first what's
the goal of this? And you know, I learned to
(13:18):
do that as a parent of a NERD divergent kid
with school, especially in homework and things that were so challenging.
What is the actual goal here? And can we even
accomplish it in the traditional way? You know, the goal
at school oftentimes is to have butts and seats, right,
and they need to be present so that they can learn.
But if you have a kid who's super dysregulated in
(13:41):
that environment and needs more breaks or needs something else
to help, they're not even learning when their butt is
in the seat. It doesn't even matter that they're there, right,
So I learned early on like really ask what is
that high level goal and backup from there? But then
parents can also ask what's the pathway to get there?
(14:02):
Like what you're outlining to me is really intentional, being
very purposeful right about what we are steering our kids
toward and how much we're letting them sort of guide
the ship as well. And then the third is are
there multiple pathways? So is there another way to do
(14:22):
this we get stuck in the way everybody else is
doing it, or what's you know, the neurotypical path or
what our culture says we should be doing. But there's
multiple pathways to everything, I think, And that's a really
key question.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Right absolutely.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
And I think you know, whether as a parent or
you know, as an educator or whatever role again you're
playing in a young person's life, not always needing to
have all the answers, but you know, those questions you're naming,
I think can be really helpful advocacy tools as well. Right,
you know, I think about you know, a lot of
what we've been exploring at campfire right now is, you know,
there's so much conversation around chronic apps andeeism, and we know, right,
(15:02):
the two top reasons that young people are missing school,
and this.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Often is different from adults perception.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Of it is either illness or appointments. Right, a young
person has a medical appointment, they have counseling, right that
they're all scheduled during the same you know, six to
eight hours of the day, and you know, a lot
of I think the way attendance systems are structured, and
(15:28):
you know, the conversation around chronic absenteeism is putting the
blame on the young people. Right, you not get invite
into the you know, perfect attendance party because you had
to miss something's wrong with you, you were sick, you
you know, needed to meet with a therapist. And again,
there is I think a complete reframe around that to say, okay, wait,
(15:49):
how what are the alternate pathways?
Speaker 3 (15:51):
What's the goal for the school?
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Is it the young people are learning and growing and
that they're you know, growing academically, emotionally, socially, you.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Know, mentally.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Then if that's true, and I want to believe that
the vast majority of educators would say yes, absolutely, we
agree with that, then what are the other ways to
not punish the young people but build a supportive system
around them instead, to support them? And so again, I
think even keeping those questions in mind, you know, in
the moments where you don't have the answers, but how
(16:22):
can you use those to advocate, you know, with and
on behalf of the young people in your life, can
be a very powerful tool as well.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
And I hear you saying that in those environments, even
those really outcome driven environments like school, that there's so
many other factors to be focused on other than say,
for instance, in school learning and grades and college preparedness
or test scores. Right, there's so many other aspects of
(16:53):
development that I think we ignore sometimes in those really
outcome driven environments that.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
We just need.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Again, it's that it's at mindset shift, right though, we
started talking about in the very beginning year of looking
at that whole personhood instead of just the performance in
each environment. Can we talk a little bit, I want
(17:24):
to shift a little bit to belonging an identity because
this is such I think, a real struggle right now
for all of our youth, but it impacts neurodivergent kids
often even more so or more intensely. And you know,
I've come to believe or to recognize that when kids
(17:46):
feel seen, heard and understood, everything sort of changes for them.
They build confidence, they feel capable, and they start showing
up in different ways, they connect in different ways. Just
really to me opens a lot of doors and windows
and sets a really strong foundation for success. But how
(18:08):
do we help our youth come to feel seen and
heard and understood and valued?
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (18:16):
So I think the first piece is checking in with them, right,
like asking them not only how they are, but who
they are?
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Right, what is it? You know?
Speaker 1 (18:26):
And then again it's it's that paying attention piece, right,
like what is it that is lighting them up inside?
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Right? What are they interested in?
Speaker 1 (18:34):
And you know, again I think often with you know,
neurodiverging young people, those can show up more intensely, right,
whether it becomes you know, more of an obsessive focus,
but sometimes it's embracing that right, And you know, so
I think about, you know, one of my own kids. Right,
it's the Beatles, right, it's music, and thinking about how
(18:54):
to utilize that interest and that passion to help him
understand who he is in the world, right, and how
that can be his gift, his passion right and help
him think about again not just his contribution, but see
value in himself because of that right. And so again
it's it often I think, especially you know in campfire programs,
(19:17):
comes back to again like the voice and choice not
deciding for young people what it is they're doing, but
also the opportunity to explore and try new things right
and both pursue the things they are passionate about already.
And I often like to say to the young people
that I work with and my own kids, like, you
(19:38):
can't care about something if you don't know about it.
So I think it's also really important to have the
opportunities to be trying new things. And again this is
where kind of being very mindful of the praise and
how we're recognizing or slipping into the lens of productivity,
because no one, including ourselves, right, is going to be
(19:58):
proficient in something first time they try it, and so
really looking for the opportunity in that to make failure fun, right,
and to you know, find ways to try something new.
So I coach basketball as my my side, my side
gig right as a hobby. And you know, fourth grade
(20:21):
girls are incredibly aware of what others are thinking of them, right,
and their place in their blossoming social dynamics. And you know,
I found myself and actually my daughter was the one
to remind me of this. You know, she was like,
you're pointing out what everyone else is doing well, but
not me. And it was, you know, a moment to
(20:45):
recognize that right, often those closest to you that you
are interacting with the most, you aren't necessarily as intentional
or as aware of how they're showing up in spaces.
And again it was a moment also to think about, Okay,
what is it that I'm I'm praising or recognizing as
a coach for all the young people on this team.
(21:05):
And actually when I found like an intentional shift that
I made our last practice, and it was during those downtimes.
So again that water break being that real moment for
connection for this team. It was finding silly things to recognize, right,
like oh, so and so is the queen of the
water fountain, right, or like oh, the way, you you know,
(21:29):
like you failed beautifully in that moment, you know, and
making that safe and fun and okay, and everyone suddenly
wanted something that they didn't do perfectly. You know, it
was like help us recognize where we weren't perfect or
didn't feel the pressure to be perfect, And that totally
shifted the.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Dynamic right among the group.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
And again, I feel like we're in a society the
people are constantly trying to be in the spotlight or
you know, in some cases avoid the spotlight, right, But
because trying to be perfectly productive in those space, giving
them the space to not only what we would probably
label is failing, but really to just try right, to
(22:09):
try things and not have to be perfect at it,
but to just experience what can come the emotions that
can come of that experience being the priority.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
You mentioned perfection, and I think this is such a
tough driver. It shouldn't be a driver. But somehow, culturally,
I think we have landed there and perfection doesn't even exist.
And so you know, I'm always thinking like we are
pushing our kids to achieve something that's impossible. It doesn't exist.
(22:45):
They're always going to feel less than if we're giving
them a goals that aren't even achievable. And I think,
you know, online media and social media and all these things,
because everybody only shares their highlight reel, it's pushing that
dynamic unfortunately. But how do we help kids to shift
(23:06):
that belief that they need to be perfect into the
belief that really they just need to be themselves and
that's enough and that's great, not even enough, it's more
than enough. Where do we start with that?
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (23:22):
So, in a lot of ways, I think it's it's
helping young people recognize their emotions, right, or recognizing how
they feel in their body.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
What do you need in this moment? Right? So?
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Yeah, as you're you know, if for some of our
older youth, as you're you know, scrolling.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Through social media, what do you feel right now?
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Like?
Speaker 1 (23:41):
What is the feeling in your body that you feel
in this moment?
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Right? And I feel like.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
They often are the first to tell us like, this
doesn't feel good, right, Like I can feel the pressure
building and really I would love someone to process through
these feelings with right. So I guess and I think
asking the open ended questions, how do you feel right?
What do you need from me in this moment, What
(24:07):
would you know help you to feel safe and supported.
That's a great place to start because so often, what
you know, I found that comes out of those conversations
with so many of the teens in our programs. It's
things like this isn't real and I know it's not real,
but I also need someone to validate that feeling that
this isn't real for me, or hey, I need a
(24:29):
break from the screen. Can you please validate that that
is a normal feeling? And you know, another place to
start in addition to just those open ended questions is
also I think in modeling it in ourselves. Right are
we as we're playing with young people, are our phones
away or are we also checking at the same time,
right as we're working on homework, you know, or to
(24:51):
encouraging a young person to finish their homework, it's like,
come on, we gotta go, we gotta go, like get
this done so we can move on, or how are.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
We showing up in that moment?
Speaker 1 (24:59):
You know? And so I think also not only asking
those open ended questions of the young people in our lives,
but also asking those questions of ourselves, like how am
I feeling in my body right now? Like what emotions
are rising to the top for me? Okay, what do
I need to reset that? Right? And again, oftentimes those
tools to reset that we do have can be a
(25:21):
really enjoyable experience.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Right.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
So, one of my kiddos has one of those little,
you know, breathing meditation lights. So when it, you know,
is one color you breathe in and it's another color.
You know, it's a little box breathing, right, And that's
a really enjoyable activity for both of us to do together. Right.
We both recognize how it's changing the feelings with inside
our bodies and it's a really nice little bonding experience
(25:46):
for us as well. And so again thinking about those
opportunities to both be checking in with young people but
also checking in with ourselves and how we're modeling the
overload and overstimulation that can come from feeling pressure to
be perfect.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Yeah, the way we show up sets the tone for everything.
And I think, you know, we get so on autopilot
and we're just going through the motions and our kid
doesn't want to do homework, and so we're also grumpy
during that time and we're feeding each other. Right, we
really have to think about how we show up with kids,
(26:22):
and how much that really impacts the ways that they
show up. When they show up and they don't want
to be there, they're grumpy or this or that. You know,
we have to recognize that maybe we had a part
to plan that, and maybe if we show up differently,
we can help them show up differently. It's really a
(26:42):
monumental shift that is such common sense, but we don't
think about it unless we think about it, right, It's
not something that really comes to the forefront of our
mind unless we're taught to do that. I think we're
teaching kids to do that more now, Like as you're
saying there's this light that helps them do a breathing exercise,
I'm thinking, gosh, I wish there was that when my
kids were young. You know, my kids are young adults now.
(27:03):
I wish we knew to teach them breathing exercises much
younger than when I learned it, because it is really powerful.
So we are shifting that way, but we need a
whole lot more of it. I think I want to
give you some time to tell us more about Campfire
and the programs that your organization offers, and to be
(27:25):
able to address maybe you know, is this open for
neurodiversion kids, what age groups, what do you do, what
are the programs? All these things before we close, because
I think that there are a lot of parents listening
who could really benefit and their kids could benefit from
what you're doing there.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
Absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
So Campfire is one hundred and fifteen years old. So
we have been in the lives of young people for many,
many years, and we were founded in the early nineteen
hundreds with the philosophy that at the time young women
were not having the opportunity to experience the outdoors the
same as young men were. Right at that point, boy
Scouts was a very popular organization for young boys. Girl
(28:07):
Scouts had not yet come over from England, and young
women didn't have the opportunity to get outdoors. And so
that orientation, I think, really established Campfire as an organization
that was always going to look for who historically has
been excluded from outdoor opportunities. And you know, we've now
(28:27):
since devolved that to our programs are both in for
or about the outdoors. So not every program is an
overnight camp right where you are experiencing the outdoors. Sometimes
it's an after school program in your school building, but
again really thinking about who historically has not felt welcomed
or that they belonged in again, whether it be after
(28:48):
school programs, day camps, overnight camp spaces, and that includes
nouro divergent young people as well. And so Campfire today
has forty four different affiliates that we call them in
twenty five states plus the DC area, serving over one
hundred thousand young people and their families each year. And
(29:09):
so during the school year, yeah, you can find us
in classrooms or on the playground. We have a partnership
with Playworks where we work to create a safe and
inclusive play during the recess time at schools as well,
you can find us in many after school program settings,
again both in the school building and outside of We
also offer a wide range of outdoor and environmental education programs,
(29:32):
so again where a school or school district may bring
their fourth or fifth graders out to one of our
camp properties to experience the outdoors for the first time,
and then during school breaks in the summer, a wide
range of day camps, summer learning programs, overnight programs as well.
We also offer family camp programs where it's an opportunity
(29:55):
to as a family come and experience some camp programming,
you know, to in the outdoors together. So I encourage
folks to explore those as well. Those can be a
great way to start to build some of the comfort
right for young people in our program So if if
you check out our website campfire dot org, that will
(30:17):
be a great starting place to discover where we have
locations and explore the different types of programs that Campfire offers.
But if there's one thing that I think of when
I think of Campfire, yeah, it's a space for young
people to show up fully and holy as themselves.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
And you will find that.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Yeah, our programs are staffed with young adults and adults
that are trained professionals to prioritize exactly that, to prioritize
building connection with young people, and that's something we take
a lot of pride in love it.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
I will link that up in the show notes for
everybody to you, so you can go to PARENTINGADHD and
Autism dot com slash three zero seven for episode three
hundred and seven, and I will make sure that Campfire
is linked up for everyone there so that they can
connect and your social media will be linked up there
as well. And we encourage everyone to please check it out.
(31:11):
I was so disappointed that I didn't even know Campfire
existed when I found out recently to have you on,
and I'm just so thankful that programs like that exist
that are really focused on helping kids discover themselves and
be themselves. It's so so important today. Thank you Shauna
(31:34):
for not only the work you're doing in the world,
but for coming here and giving us some of your
time and your wisdom and your energy and your passion
for helping kids. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
Likewise, thank you for all you do. I know I'm
a better parent because of it.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Oh, thank you. I'll see everybody in the next episode.
Take good care. Thanks for joining me on the Beautifully
Complex podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share,
and don't forget to check out my online courses and
parent coaching at PARENTINGADHD and Autism dot com and at
The Behavior Revolution dot com.
So in some ways, I think it has to do
with goals, right, both asking ourselves as the adults and
young people's lives, like what is our goal for this
young person, but hopefully also what is this young person's
goal for themselves? Right, and then recognizing there are multiple
pathways to get there.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Welcome to the Beautifully Complex podcast, where I share insights
and strategies on parenting neurodivergent kids straight from the trenches.
I'm your host, Penny Williams. I'm a parenting coach, author
and mindset mama, honored to guide you on the journey
of raising your atypical kid. Let's get started. Welcome back, everybody.
(00:45):
I am so excited to be have any conversation today
with Shauna Rosenswag, who is the CEO of Campfire, which
we are going to learn all about in this conversation
as well, and we're going to talk about really prioritizing
personhood over productivity over performance, which in my opinion, is
(01:09):
a cultural shift that we need to be making for everyone,
but especially for our neurodivergent kids who struggle with finding
where they fit, who struggle with recognizing their authenticity or
feeling like they're safe to be their authentic selves. So
we're going to unpack some of these concepts and ideas
(01:30):
with Shauna, and I'm really excited to get into it.
But Shauna, will you start by letting everybody know who
you are and what you do.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Yeah, So thank you for having me today. So I'm SHAWNA. Rosenswag.
I'm the CEO of Campfire and Campfire is an inclusive
youth development organization that connects young people to the outdoors,
to others, and to themselves. And you know, I've really
grown up in youth development, right, both as a young
person who attended after school pro and day camps and
(02:01):
overnight camps, and that was how I thought you worked
with young people, right, And I just enjoyed being with
young people. And so that was my high school job,
my college job, and I didn't realize I could make
a profession out of it, though, and so I saw
a lot of ways. I feel very fortunate that I
have had the opportunity to work for a number of
amazing organizations that really focus on supporting young people in
(02:24):
the out of.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
School time space.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
So that's really my area of interest and passion, and
I should add I'm also a parent of two young
people who are eight and ten. So when I'm not
in my role as CEO, i am very much in
my role as parent.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Awesome such needed work in the world, and I always
love chatting with people who are really looking to help
our youth find their place and find their purpose. It
is more difficult, I think now than ever. Would you agree?
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Slowly?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, you talk some about centering youth as whole people,
not just looking at them like students or performers or
a productive part of society. For people who are used
to though focusing on that productivity that process, like parents, Right,
we're looking for milestones for looking for our kids to
(03:22):
graduate and go to college, and all these things that
we've been taught are the only path, even though we
know they're not. How can we help people start to
shift that mindset from really thinking about the accomplishments to
thinking about the person as a whole.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
So the first thing that I always like to both
remind myself, you know, and others is you know, to
put ourselves in the in the vantage point of young people, right.
And so I think it's very easy as adults to
think about young people through one lens based on where
they are, right, it has to do a school we
think of them solely as a student. If it has
(04:03):
to do with you know, young people at home, it
has to do with them as our child. And for
young people, their lives are a lot more fluid, right,
They're moving holy and holistically through those spaces, and I
think it's really important for us to remember that as well.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
So, you know, when I think about Campfire, and you know,
many of our after school programs, young people are coming
to us from the school day. They are not necessarily saying,
oh now I'm taking off my hat as student and
transitioning into my role as after school program participant. No, Right,
they are experiencing their days and their lives fully and holistically,
(04:40):
and I think that's really important for us to remember
as well. Right, they are coming into whatever that space,
that transition between spaces, with the lived experience that they've
had that day.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
So you know, I often think about, you know, as
a parent, and it's so easy to fall into this,
right thinking about them in those contents. So you're such
a hard worker or great job getting your homework done
on time, because those are the milestones, right, as you
named that we're working through in whatever that setting and
instead kind of thinking about, right, who is this young
(05:13):
person and who do we see them kind of remain
consistently or who are they trying on?
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Right?
Speaker 1 (05:19):
So much of youth development is them discovering who they
are right and developing their interests, their passions, their identities,
and so helping them recognize that right as they move
through different spaces and places, you know, and again so
often that is I think what's incredibly hard for us
and with all the societal pressures around us, but it's
(05:39):
space to just be right that. It's like those transition
times are actually in some ways the most beautiful because
they tend to be the least structured. Yeah right, Yeah,
So giving them the space right to just be in
the car as they are transitioning, or to you know,
be with their friends on the bus as they are
you know, coming to or from school, then in a
(05:59):
lot of ways, those.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Are where then developmental magic happens.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
They also can be you know, also some of the
riskier spaces, you know, teazing or bullying, but recognizing that
those are spaces really where young people can blossom and
recognize kind of who they are and who they want
to be among the peers and you know, the other
folks in their lives.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
We tend to overschedule our kids, and I think again
it's that mindset of giving them all the opportunities and
making sure they do all the things they're good at,
all the things, which I think is sometimes detrimental not
just for them, but for us too. Like if we're
over scheduled as the parent, it's also really difficult to
(06:43):
connect with our kids, to have that time and space
to really get to know them, and I think that's
so important in helping to guide them sort of. I
always think about like guiding them from afar almost because
we really want them to lead. Do you agree with
that that it's really important to give them that space
(07:06):
but also to follow where they're going in those times?
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Absolutely? So.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
I think the both the voice and choice are kind
of the language we tend to use our programs in
terms of letting young people guide their experience. And I'll
give you a real world example where you know, I
found myself kind of caught in that moment, right And
so you know, this weekend, you know, my son had
a sports game and he was, you know, standing on
(07:30):
the sideline staring up towards the sky, you know, And
as a parent, I'm like, why.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Isn't he engaged?
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Like, come on, how is he going to get playing time?
And and I could feel right like within me the
stress and the tension building, and it was an interesting
moment to pause and say, okay, like how would I
advise this in our programs? And one of the things
we often talk about, especially in outdoor settings, the opportunity
to look up right really helps you reregulate yourself.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
And so maybe he.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Needed in that moment that reregulation right, to be able
to kind of rebalance reset himself, and that was actually
very soothing and centering for him. He may not have
been stressed thinking why am I not plying whatever? He
may actually have been having a really nice moment to
kind of re establish himself in that setting, or to
be present in that setting, you know. And I'm the
(08:22):
parent on the sideline who's having the opposite experience.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Right, And again, I think.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
An opportunity to think about, Okay, how can I observe
the young people in my lives to let them lead
as opposed to when am I trying to steer right?
As opposed to how can I think about keeping them
on the road, you know, but some beering is okay, right,
and responding to what they need in those various moments
I think can be really important and a lot of
(08:48):
times it is that that space to simply be right,
whether it's downtime or to decide how they're using their
free time, or yeah, to resist the urge to fill
every possible moment again looking for I think the breaks
and the transitions, even within the structured activities can be
incredibly important as well.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Yeah, and how do we sort of strike that balance?
You know, as parents were driven by those outside voices
coming in that say this is the path to achievement,
this is the path to you know whatever, health and happiness.
And then on the other side, we have a neurodivergent
kid who you know doesn't necessarily.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Not fit.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
I'm not going to use the word fit, but you know,
they need a different path often, right, they need a
different journey. And it's really tough to separate ourselves from
those outside voices and really listen to what we know
about our kids and asking those questions, like noticing, like
(09:53):
you were just saying, maybe it's something else entirely right
now in this moment he's actually regulating himself so he
can be more invested in the game when he's back
in the game. Right, how do we get to a
mindset where we can start to notice those things and
ask those questions to really be able to steer away
from this productivity sort of attitude and perspective.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
So, in some ways, I think it has to do
with goals, right, both asking ourselves as you know, the
adults and young people's lives, like what is our goal
for this young person? But hopefully also what is this
young person's goal for themselves? Right, and then recognizing there
are multiple pathways to get there.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Right.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
So, in many of our overnight camp settings, one of
the changes we made to the environment to the space, right,
Dining halls can be very overwhelming, right, They are sensory
overload for a number of reasons, you know, I think
top of the list being the volume in there can
be incredibly overwhelming. And part of what we had to
(10:56):
ask ourselves, you know, as a summer camp provider, is
what's the goal? Right, what's the goal of meal time?
And ultimately right, like if you were to ask me,
it's about connection, right, It's about young people building connection
with each other, and then what are the pathways to
get there that it's not everyone having to eat in
a noisy dining hall together to build connection. That actually
(11:18):
there are multiple pathways, and so one of the changes
that we've made is making sure that there are alternative
eating spaces outside the dining hall that are quieter. And
again there's still opportunities to build connection, but there's a
different path to it. Right or again, we often see
you know, water used for team building activities right some
(11:41):
weeks where you know, water is much more prevalent again,
can be from a sensory perspective very overwhelming.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Very overloading.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Are there ways to communicate and to create alternative pathways
towards the same goal that all young people have it
so like, what's the dry version of this activity? Right? Right,
and ultimately still leads folks to feeling the same accomplishments,
the same connections. And again I think that has really
changed how we think about what an enriching activity looks
(12:13):
like or what the goal is. And also naming for
young people, what is it that they.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Are looking to get out of this experience? Right?
Speaker 1 (12:20):
And oftentimes right we hear it is maybe it is
the chance to just be with my friends or to
be in nature.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Right.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Oftentimes for our older young people, it's the chance to
get off their phones right, and that in and of
itself feels very calming and recharging. And so thinking about again, like,
both as the adults creating that space.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
What's our goal for this young person and for.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
The young person, how can we be having that same
conversation and processing through what is their goal? Because I
think oftentimes when people surprise us in terms of what
we think their goal is and what their actual goal
is is not always the same.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
So yeah, we need to ask, we need to not
just make assumptions, but we need to also ask our kids,
what is your goal? What do you want to get
out of this? And I kind of I saw in
what you were saying sort of this three step process
that I think adults can use in questioning first what's
the goal of this? And you know, I learned to
(13:18):
do that as a parent of a NERD divergent kid
with school, especially in homework and things that were so challenging.
What is the actual goal here? And can we even
accomplish it in the traditional way? You know, the goal
at school oftentimes is to have butts and seats, right,
and they need to be present so that they can learn.
But if you have a kid who's super dysregulated in
(13:41):
that environment and needs more breaks or needs something else
to help, they're not even learning when their butt is
in the seat. It doesn't even matter that they're there, right,
So I learned early on like really ask what is
that high level goal and backup from there? But then
parents can also ask what's the pathway to get there?
(14:02):
Like what you're outlining to me is really intentional, being
very purposeful right about what we are steering our kids
toward and how much we're letting them sort of guide
the ship as well. And then the third is are
there multiple pathways? So is there another way to do
(14:22):
this we get stuck in the way everybody else is
doing it, or what's you know, the neurotypical path or
what our culture says we should be doing. But there's
multiple pathways to everything, I think, And that's a really
key question.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Right absolutely.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
And I think you know, whether as a parent or
you know, as an educator or whatever role again you're
playing in a young person's life, not always needing to
have all the answers, but you know, those questions you're naming,
I think can be really helpful advocacy tools as well. Right,
you know, I think about you know, a lot of
what we've been exploring at campfire right now is, you know,
there's so much conversation around chronic apps andeeism, and we know, right,
(15:02):
the two top reasons that young people are missing school,
and this.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Often is different from adults perception.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Of it is either illness or appointments. Right, a young
person has a medical appointment, they have counseling, right that
they're all scheduled during the same you know, six to
eight hours of the day, and you know, a lot
of I think the way attendance systems are structured, and
(15:28):
you know, the conversation around chronic absenteeism is putting the
blame on the young people. Right, you not get invite
into the you know, perfect attendance party because you had
to miss something's wrong with you, you were sick, you
you know, needed to meet with a therapist. And again,
there is I think a complete reframe around that to say, okay, wait,
(15:49):
how what are the alternate pathways?
Speaker 3 (15:51):
What's the goal for the school?
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Is it the young people are learning and growing and
that they're you know, growing academically, emotionally, socially, you.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Know, mentally.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Then if that's true, and I want to believe that
the vast majority of educators would say yes, absolutely, we
agree with that, then what are the other ways to
not punish the young people but build a supportive system
around them instead, to support them? And so again, I
think even keeping those questions in mind, you know, in
the moments where you don't have the answers, but how
(16:22):
can you use those to advocate, you know, with and
on behalf of the young people in your life, can
be a very powerful tool as well.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
And I hear you saying that in those environments, even
those really outcome driven environments like school, that there's so
many other factors to be focused on other than say,
for instance, in school learning and grades and college preparedness
or test scores. Right, there's so many other aspects of
(16:53):
development that I think we ignore sometimes in those really
outcome driven environments that.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
We just need.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Again, it's that it's at mindset shift, right though, we
started talking about in the very beginning year of looking
at that whole personhood instead of just the performance in
each environment. Can we talk a little bit, I want
(17:24):
to shift a little bit to belonging an identity because
this is such I think, a real struggle right now
for all of our youth, but it impacts neurodivergent kids
often even more so or more intensely. And you know,
I've come to believe or to recognize that when kids
(17:46):
feel seen, heard and understood, everything sort of changes for them.
They build confidence, they feel capable, and they start showing
up in different ways, they connect in different ways. Just
really to me opens a lot of doors and windows
and sets a really strong foundation for success. But how
(18:08):
do we help our youth come to feel seen and
heard and understood and valued?
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (18:16):
So I think the first piece is checking in with them, right,
like asking them not only how they are, but who
they are?
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Right, what is it? You know?
Speaker 1 (18:26):
And then again it's it's that paying attention piece, right,
like what is it that is lighting them up inside?
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Right? What are they interested in?
Speaker 1 (18:34):
And you know, again I think often with you know,
neurodiverging young people, those can show up more intensely, right,
whether it becomes you know, more of an obsessive focus,
but sometimes it's embracing that right, And you know, so
I think about, you know, one of my own kids. Right,
it's the Beatles, right, it's music, and thinking about how
(18:54):
to utilize that interest and that passion to help him
understand who he is in the world, right, and how
that can be his gift, his passion right and help
him think about again not just his contribution, but see
value in himself because of that right. And so again
it's it often I think, especially you know in campfire programs,
(19:17):
comes back to again like the voice and choice not
deciding for young people what it is they're doing, but
also the opportunity to explore and try new things right
and both pursue the things they are passionate about already.
And I often like to say to the young people
that I work with and my own kids, like, you
(19:38):
can't care about something if you don't know about it.
So I think it's also really important to have the
opportunities to be trying new things. And again this is
where kind of being very mindful of the praise and
how we're recognizing or slipping into the lens of productivity,
because no one, including ourselves, right, is going to be
(19:58):
proficient in something first time they try it, and so
really looking for the opportunity in that to make failure fun, right,
and to you know, find ways to try something new.
So I coach basketball as my my side, my side
gig right as a hobby. And you know, fourth grade
(20:21):
girls are incredibly aware of what others are thinking of them, right,
and their place in their blossoming social dynamics. And you know,
I found myself and actually my daughter was the one
to remind me of this. You know, she was like,
you're pointing out what everyone else is doing well, but
not me. And it was, you know, a moment to
(20:45):
recognize that right, often those closest to you that you
are interacting with the most, you aren't necessarily as intentional
or as aware of how they're showing up in spaces.
And again it was a moment also to think about, Okay,
what is it that I'm I'm praising or recognizing as
a coach for all the young people on this team.
(21:05):
And actually when I found like an intentional shift that
I made our last practice, and it was during those downtimes.
So again that water break being that real moment for
connection for this team. It was finding silly things to recognize, right,
like oh, so and so is the queen of the
water fountain, right, or like oh, the way, you you know,
(21:29):
like you failed beautifully in that moment, you know, and
making that safe and fun and okay, and everyone suddenly
wanted something that they didn't do perfectly. You know, it
was like help us recognize where we weren't perfect or
didn't feel the pressure to be perfect, And that totally
shifted the.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Dynamic right among the group.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
And again, I feel like we're in a society the
people are constantly trying to be in the spotlight or
you know, in some cases avoid the spotlight, right, But
because trying to be perfectly productive in those space, giving
them the space to not only what we would probably
label is failing, but really to just try right, to
(22:09):
try things and not have to be perfect at it,
but to just experience what can come the emotions that
can come of that experience being the priority.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
You mentioned perfection, and I think this is such a
tough driver. It shouldn't be a driver. But somehow, culturally,
I think we have landed there and perfection doesn't even exist.
And so you know, I'm always thinking like we are
pushing our kids to achieve something that's impossible. It doesn't exist.
(22:45):
They're always going to feel less than if we're giving
them a goals that aren't even achievable. And I think,
you know, online media and social media and all these things,
because everybody only shares their highlight reel, it's pushing that
dynamic unfortunately. But how do we help kids to shift
(23:06):
that belief that they need to be perfect into the
belief that really they just need to be themselves and
that's enough and that's great, not even enough, it's more
than enough. Where do we start with that?
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (23:22):
So, in a lot of ways, I think it's it's
helping young people recognize their emotions, right, or recognizing how
they feel in their body.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
What do you need in this moment? Right? So?
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Yeah, as you're you know, if for some of our
older youth, as you're you know, scrolling.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Through social media, what do you feel right now?
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Like?
Speaker 1 (23:41):
What is the feeling in your body that you feel
in this moment?
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Right? And I feel like.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
They often are the first to tell us like, this
doesn't feel good, right, Like I can feel the pressure
building and really I would love someone to process through
these feelings with right. So I guess and I think
asking the open ended questions, how do you feel right?
What do you need from me in this moment, What
(24:07):
would you know help you to feel safe and supported.
That's a great place to start because so often, what
you know, I found that comes out of those conversations
with so many of the teens in our programs. It's
things like this isn't real and I know it's not real,
but I also need someone to validate that feeling that
this isn't real for me, or hey, I need a
(24:29):
break from the screen. Can you please validate that that
is a normal feeling? And you know, another place to
start in addition to just those open ended questions is
also I think in modeling it in ourselves. Right are
we as we're playing with young people, are our phones
away or are we also checking at the same time,
right as we're working on homework, you know, or to
(24:51):
encouraging a young person to finish their homework, it's like,
come on, we gotta go, we gotta go, like get
this done so we can move on, or how are.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
We showing up in that moment?
Speaker 1 (24:59):
You know? And so I think also not only asking
those open ended questions of the young people in our lives,
but also asking those questions of ourselves, like how am
I feeling in my body right now? Like what emotions
are rising to the top for me? Okay, what do
I need to reset that? Right? And again, oftentimes those
tools to reset that we do have can be a
(25:21):
really enjoyable experience.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Right.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
So, one of my kiddos has one of those little,
you know, breathing meditation lights. So when it, you know,
is one color you breathe in and it's another color.
You know, it's a little box breathing, right, And that's
a really enjoyable activity for both of us to do together. Right.
We both recognize how it's changing the feelings with inside
our bodies and it's a really nice little bonding experience
(25:46):
for us as well. And so again thinking about those
opportunities to both be checking in with young people but
also checking in with ourselves and how we're modeling the
overload and overstimulation that can come from feeling pressure to
be perfect.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Yeah, the way we show up sets the tone for everything.
And I think, you know, we get so on autopilot
and we're just going through the motions and our kid
doesn't want to do homework, and so we're also grumpy
during that time and we're feeding each other. Right, we
really have to think about how we show up with kids,
(26:22):
and how much that really impacts the ways that they
show up. When they show up and they don't want
to be there, they're grumpy or this or that. You know,
we have to recognize that maybe we had a part
to plan that, and maybe if we show up differently,
we can help them show up differently. It's really a
(26:42):
monumental shift that is such common sense, but we don't
think about it unless we think about it, right, It's
not something that really comes to the forefront of our
mind unless we're taught to do that. I think we're
teaching kids to do that more now, Like as you're
saying there's this light that helps them do a breathing exercise,
I'm thinking, gosh, I wish there was that when my
kids were young. You know, my kids are young adults now.
(27:03):
I wish we knew to teach them breathing exercises much
younger than when I learned it, because it is really powerful.
So we are shifting that way, but we need a
whole lot more of it. I think I want to
give you some time to tell us more about Campfire
and the programs that your organization offers, and to be
(27:25):
able to address maybe you know, is this open for
neurodiversion kids, what age groups, what do you do, what
are the programs? All these things before we close, because
I think that there are a lot of parents listening
who could really benefit and their kids could benefit from
what you're doing there.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
Absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
So Campfire is one hundred and fifteen years old. So
we have been in the lives of young people for many,
many years, and we were founded in the early nineteen
hundreds with the philosophy that at the time young women
were not having the opportunity to experience the outdoors the
same as young men were. Right at that point, boy
Scouts was a very popular organization for young boys. Girl
(28:07):
Scouts had not yet come over from England, and young
women didn't have the opportunity to get outdoors. And so
that orientation, I think, really established Campfire as an organization
that was always going to look for who historically has
been excluded from outdoor opportunities. And you know, we've now
(28:27):
since devolved that to our programs are both in for
or about the outdoors. So not every program is an
overnight camp right where you are experiencing the outdoors. Sometimes
it's an after school program in your school building, but
again really thinking about who historically has not felt welcomed
or that they belonged in again, whether it be after
(28:48):
school programs, day camps, overnight camp spaces, and that includes
nouro divergent young people as well. And so Campfire today
has forty four different affiliates that we call them in
twenty five states plus the DC area, serving over one
hundred thousand young people and their families each year. And
(29:09):
so during the school year, yeah, you can find us
in classrooms or on the playground. We have a partnership
with Playworks where we work to create a safe and
inclusive play during the recess time at schools as well,
you can find us in many after school program settings,
again both in the school building and outside of We
also offer a wide range of outdoor and environmental education programs,
(29:32):
so again where a school or school district may bring
their fourth or fifth graders out to one of our
camp properties to experience the outdoors for the first time,
and then during school breaks in the summer, a wide
range of day camps, summer learning programs, overnight programs as well.
We also offer family camp programs where it's an opportunity
(29:55):
to as a family come and experience some camp programming,
you know, to in the outdoors together. So I encourage
folks to explore those as well. Those can be a
great way to start to build some of the comfort
right for young people in our program So if if
you check out our website campfire dot org, that will
(30:17):
be a great starting place to discover where we have
locations and explore the different types of programs that Campfire offers.
But if there's one thing that I think of when
I think of Campfire, yeah, it's a space for young
people to show up fully and holy as themselves.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
And you will find that.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Yeah, our programs are staffed with young adults and adults
that are trained professionals to prioritize exactly that, to prioritize
building connection with young people, and that's something we take
a lot of pride in love it.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
I will link that up in the show notes for
everybody to you, so you can go to PARENTINGADHD and
Autism dot com slash three zero seven for episode three
hundred and seven, and I will make sure that Campfire
is linked up for everyone there so that they can
connect and your social media will be linked up there
as well. And we encourage everyone to please check it out.
(31:11):
I was so disappointed that I didn't even know Campfire
existed when I found out recently to have you on,
and I'm just so thankful that programs like that exist
that are really focused on helping kids discover themselves and
be themselves. It's so so important today. Thank you Shauna
(31:34):
for not only the work you're doing in the world,
but for coming here and giving us some of your
time and your wisdom and your energy and your passion
for helping kids. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
Likewise, thank you for all you do. I know I'm
a better parent because of it.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Oh, thank you. I'll see everybody in the next episode.
Take good care. Thanks for joining me on the Beautifully
Complex podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share,
and don't forget to check out my online courses and
parent coaching at PARENTINGADHD and Autism dot com and at
The Behavior Revolution dot com.
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