April 16, 2025 • 32 mins
Wait, ADHD is more than attention issues? Yep — and this episode will blow your mind.
In this special episode, I’m sharing the first episode of the must-listen new series Climbing the Walls by Understood.org. This story-driven episode dives into the rise of ADHD diagnoses in women — especially during the pandemic — and how emotional regulation, executive function, and misunderstood symptoms have kept countless women undiagnosed for decades.
I reflect on the shock of hearing things I wish I’d known when my child was first diagnosed. This episode isn't just about women with ADHD — it’s about the ripple effects of missed diagnoses, how emotions show up in unexpected ways (hello, rage and rejection sensitivity!), and why recognizing the full picture of ADHD is crucial for parenting neurodivergent kids.
If you’ve ever questioned why your child explodes or struggles to meet deadlines, or if you've felt unseen yourself, this one’s going to hit home.
Don’t miss this compelling episode — hit play now and prepare to see ADHD through a new lens.
You can find additional resources at parentingadhdandautism.com and Regulated Kids.com — because it’s not just about the struggles, it’s about progress, one step at a time.
Show notes and more resources at parentingadhdandautism.com/308
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/beautifully-complex--6137613/support.
In this special episode, I’m sharing the first episode of the must-listen new series Climbing the Walls by Understood.org. This story-driven episode dives into the rise of ADHD diagnoses in women — especially during the pandemic — and how emotional regulation, executive function, and misunderstood symptoms have kept countless women undiagnosed for decades.
I reflect on the shock of hearing things I wish I’d known when my child was first diagnosed. This episode isn't just about women with ADHD — it’s about the ripple effects of missed diagnoses, how emotions show up in unexpected ways (hello, rage and rejection sensitivity!), and why recognizing the full picture of ADHD is crucial for parenting neurodivergent kids.
If you’ve ever questioned why your child explodes or struggles to meet deadlines, or if you've felt unseen yourself, this one’s going to hit home.
Don’t miss this compelling episode — hit play now and prepare to see ADHD through a new lens.
You can find additional resources at parentingadhdandautism.com and Regulated Kids.com — because it’s not just about the struggles, it’s about progress, one step at a time.
Show notes and more resources at parentingadhdandautism.com/308
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/beautifully-complex--6137613/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the Beautifully Complex podcast, where I share insights
and strategies on parenting neurodivergent kids, straight from the trenches.
I'm your host, Penny Williams. I'm a parenting coach, author
and mindset mama, honored to guide you on the journey
of raising your atypical kid. Let's get started. Welcome everyone.
(00:26):
In this episode, we're doing something a little bit different.
I want to play you an episode of another show
that I think you will like and will be relatable
for you. It's called Climbing the Walls. This six part
series investigates why women with ADHD have gone undiagnosed for
(00:49):
so long and how that changed dramatically during the pandemic
when the diagnosis of ADHD and women skyrocketed. This show
Why Women, Why Now? How has underdiagnosis impacted women's mental health?
I checked out the first episode and I was blown away.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Y'all.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Not only is it shining a much needed spotlight on
ADHD in women and girls, but it's full of so
many facts about ADHD that are largely unknown to the
public and rarely communicated to the individual or the parent
at the time of diagnosis. They discussed so many things
(01:33):
that I wish I had known when my kid was diagnosed,
instead of learning them on my own over multiple years.
So here it is. I hope you enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
I've never been all that good at listening to instructions.
When flight attendants ask passengers to put their phones on
airplane mode, I don't. I usually scroll in stie until
we lose service. That's what I was doing one morning
in February twenty twenty four. I was scrolling Instagram when
the little red icon appeared in the top left corner
of the app a new message. I opened it. It
(02:13):
was a link to a video. My thumb was hovering
over it. As the wheels lifted off the runway, I
saw the top half of the news anchor's head and
the logo for Fox News. The screen froze like that.
At the time, I was working on a film about
affirmative action, so I assumed that the link had something
to do with that. We were in the air for
about six hours, and as we landed, I opened Instagram again.
(02:37):
I saw four more messages. Everyone was sending me the
same link. As it loaded, I realized it had nothing
to do with affirmative action.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Adult women are being diagnosed with ADHD at a record pace.
In just two years, diagnosis rate has nearly doubled. So
what's drying?
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Ah? Yes, ADHD attention deficit high activity disorder.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Phones could be a root cause, but ironically it's also
what's raising awareness about it.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
It was all over the news that week.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Joining us now is Brooke Schnittman. She's an ADHD and
executive function coach. It's great to have you here, So
tell us why why?
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Women? Why now?
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Why are these diagnoses going up?
Speaker 5 (03:20):
Diagnosis in ADHD is going People are understanding more about
themselves since the pandemic. So when we had so much
downtime to really understand ourselves, that's when mental health was
on the rise.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
And it seemed like Brooke had more to say, but
the anchor jumped in.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
But you know, all of us are distracted because of
our phones, right. I can be reading the Wall Street
Journal editorial page at night. I'm like, wait, let me
check what my sister just sent me on Instagram. But
where's the line between someone who feels distracted because of
their phone and someone who actually has ADHD and gets
a diagnosis like that?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
And I knew exactly why my friends were sending me
this clip. Why are so many women being diagnosed with ADHD?
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Do they really have it?
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I started asking these questions sometime in the summer of
twenty twenty two, a few months after I joined the
ranks of the recently diagnosed. Listening to a news anchor
question the rise and diagnosis, I realized, I really do
want to know why women?
Speaker 4 (04:24):
Why now.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
For the last year or so, I've tried to answer
these questions. I've talked to scientists, doctors, and I've talked
to many many women who have ADHD, some who were
recently diagnosed, others who have known for decades. This is
a story about science, social expectations, stress, and the way
we live. It's about who we trust. Most importantly, it's
(04:48):
a story about women. This is climbing the walls. I'm
Daniel Elliott. I had a fairly unique pandemic experience. I
(05:14):
started dating someone in the first week. I was thirty five,
and this was honestly my first relationship, unless you know,
you actually want to count the revolving door of four
month situations I've been in for the last ten years. Anyway,
everything was new, and it was distracting me from everything else.
Happening in the world. We moved in together. Things were
good for a while. I remember waking up one morning
(05:39):
and just staring at the wall, not really moving. I
laid there long enough that my partner looked at me
and said, are you okay, and still without moving, I said.
We used to be able to get on planes and
a few hours later land in a completely different part
of the world. I just missed being able to be
anywhere else. A few months later, we got vaccinate. A
(06:00):
few months after that, we broke up. I stashed a
few boxes at my parents' house, booked a flight, and left.
I spent the next two months working remotely from Mexico
and Belize, then went to California and Colorado for work.
It was fun, but the whole time I kept thinking
about the night we broke up.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
We needed to break up. We both knew this was coming.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
He initiated a conversation and I exploded.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
I had this visceral reaction.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
I said things that I knew would cut deep. I
couldn't look at him. I started packing, taking frames off
the walls. I felt out of control, and it felt
really out of character. I don't yell at people, ever,
I thought I'd learned to control my emotions, but that
night I acted like a child, So three months later
I was still beating myself up over it. One night
(06:51):
I googled extreme reactions to rejection and this article popped
up about something called rejection sensitive dysphoria RSD. I'd never
heard of it. One magazine article described it like this.
It is always triggered by the perceived or real loss
of approval, love, or respect. It looks like an impressive,
(07:12):
instantaneous rage at the person or situation responsible for causing
the pain. Some people use the pain of RSD to
find adaptations and overachieve. They constantly work to be the
best of what they do and strive for idealized perfection.
The last section of the article started with this sentence,
Rejection sensitivity is part of ADHD. I remember reading that
(07:36):
sentence and thinking, wait, do I have ADHD. I didn't
really think I could, because, as far as I knew,
ADHD meant you couldn't focus. When I'm interested in something
or I have a deadline, I focus so well that
I sort of forget the rest of the world exists.
I found an article on ADHD. It explained that ADHD
(07:59):
is a spectrum of attentional issues. The next day I
talked to my therapist. She suggested I take a self screener,
so I took it and it said that I have
symptoms of ADHD, and I, for lack of a better word,
I pouted. I didn't want to have ADHD. Everything I
(08:19):
read said that women with ADHD struggle in relationships, careers,
and as parents. I wanted to believe I'd figure these
things out. And to hear I might have a condition
that apparently makes it harder to do these things, it
felt scary. I booked a telehealth appointment with a psychiatrist.
(08:39):
On a cold morning in February twenty twenty two, I
sat down in front of my computer, logged into a
video platform, and started talking to a psychiatrist, having made
the diagnosis.
Speaker 5 (08:50):
If it's not like so glaringly obvious child, usually it's
the hyperactivity symptoms.
Speaker 6 (08:56):
That draw attention.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
There was a cop outside my wind.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
I looked back at the screen and tried to focus
on what the psychiatrist was saying. She seemed to be
sitting on a bench at a kitchen table. I could
see a green lawn behind her and wondered where she lived.
I realized I was distracted and tried to tune back in.
She was still explaining how teachers or doctors usually spot
ADHD in kids.
Speaker 7 (09:17):
The teacher is saying, oh, Billy, you're really wick right.
It's often harder when it's more the attentional symptoms.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
I was recording on my phone because I wanted to
be able to listen back to what she said about treatment.
I wanted to get this right. She explained that girls
with ADHD are usually not as hyperactive or disruptive as
boys with ADHD, and since they're not disturbing their classmates
or their teachers, their symptoms go unnoticed. She asked me
(09:47):
about my childhood. How did I do in school? Did
I make friends? Do I have any specific memories? I
told her stories from preschool, kindergarten, second grade, fifth grade,
seventh grade. I asked her if ADHD is I didn't
talk or walk until a year after most kids my age.
My mom says she had me tested for special education preschool,
but I didn't get in. In grad school, my advisor
(10:10):
always said, Danielle, I think you have shiny ball syndrome.
None of us suspected an actual syndrome. I just like
chasing new ideas usually before finishing whatever I'm working on.
Ten minutes into the call, the doctor said she thinks
I have ADHD. I wanted this to be much more complicated.
I wanted her to do a whole series of tests.
(10:31):
But there are no definitive biological markers for ADHD, no
blood test that says yep, you have it. Instead, the
diagnosis is based on your experiences throughout your life and
your family history. The official criteria is listed in a
book called the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders
the DSM. It's published by the American Psychiatric Association. The
(10:55):
DSM says that symptoms of ADHD develop by the time
person turns twelve. If the symptoms begin after that, it's
not Adhdly.
Speaker 5 (11:05):
Our executive function right from the frontal lobe is the
seed of a lot of this, and it's tricky. Our
front a lobe is not fully developed into well into teenage.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Here so the way, So again, this is a lot
of executive function.
Speaker 8 (11:19):
So executive function is a lot of part of our cognition.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
She went on like this a little bit longer, talking
about something called executive function, which I'd never heard of
Then she prescribed a stimulant, which is a type of
medication often used to treat ADHD, and with that I
joined the ranks of what seemed to be a rapidly
emerging demographic women diagnosed with ADHD during the pandemic. One
(11:45):
five hundred dollars video appointment and I was now one
of those women. Fox News was talking about. My insurance
didn't even cover it. I wasn't sure. I wanted to
be honest stimulant. I wasn't sure I wanted to hear
any of this honestly, but I dug into it anyway,
doing my research alongside self discovery. That's what I do,
(12:05):
after all, I should mention I'm a science journalist. I
also produced documentaries and podcasts. The more I learned about ADHD,
it was clear that I have it, and I learned
that it was so much more than what I had
thought it was. I thought it was about focus and attention,
but it turns out it's also about emotional regulation and
scheduling and your ability to stay organized and sustain interests.
(12:28):
I read things that said people with ADHD have a
constant battle between structure and stimulation, and that we have
strong internal voices that are often completely set on telling
us that we're doing everything wrong. On social media, there
were a lot of women talking about ADHD, and honestly,
they all seemed a lot like me, college educated, mostly
(12:50):
well adjusted, white women who apparently wanted to be more adjusted,
and that started to give me doubts. I would scroll
through Instagram and TikTok and think, you all seem to
have part and children and big enough careers to help
you reach large audiences on social media. If you have ADHD,
how do you stay organized enough to create all this content?
(13:10):
Is there any chance you're just capitalizing on this moment
when ADHD seems to be trending. I don't like to
minimize anyone else's experience. I think I was just pushing
back against the idea that I had ADHD by proposing
that maybe none of us women had it, that maybe
we just weren't good enough, as if that's somehow better.
(13:33):
You can't spell Danielle without denial. My notion of who
was talking about ADHD started to expand When I moved
(13:56):
into a new apartment that summer, great light, closet space
friendly building. I got to know three of the women
on my floor we were watching TV one night and
one of them mentioned her ADHD. Another one of the
women jumped in and said, oh, I was diagnosed last year.
Over the next few months, I started hearing this everywhere.
A bartender at my favorite spot, two friends talking on
(14:18):
the train, friends telling me about their moms being diagnosed.
Unlike what I saw on social media, they weren't all
white women. Then researchers published data that supported what I
was seeing around me. Tons of women are being diagnosed
with ADHD. From twenty twenty to twenty twenty two, the
rate of diagnosis skyrocketed. Okay, let me get inside your
(14:41):
head for a minute. You're probably thinking, what's the big deal.
A lot of women were diagnosed with ADHD in the
past few years. So what sounds like you made some
new friends and got some helpful meds out of it.
Why are you so mystified? Like this subject needs a podcast?
Mystified is this year lates shit? It goes back to
(15:02):
what the psychiatrist told me on the phone about why
my own ADHD wasn't identified when I was a kid.
Girls tend to have different symptoms, she'd said, hyperactivity is
much less common our brains, though no less unique than
that of any rambunctious boys slipped under the radar. For many,
many years, this was the accepted wisdom. Doctors weren't diagnosing
(15:24):
ADHD in girls because they simply didn't know they had it.
One doctor told me that in the nineteen seventies and
early eighties he was taught the ratio of boys to
girls with ADHD was ten to one. On top of that,
the medical community also firmly believed that people outgrow ADHD
(15:44):
in adulthood. Those two beliefs together meant that very little
thought was ever given to women grown up, adult women
having ADHD. When I was in grad school in twenty
thirteen and my advice joked that I had shiny ball syndrome,
she didn't consider that I might have ADHD. I was
(16:06):
studying science journalism. I read so many journals and articles
that year and never came across anything that would suggest
such an idea. Obviously, something had changed in the last
few years. Women with ADHD were now being found everywhere,
from my apartment building to Fox News. I talked to
dozens of women who, like me, went undiagnosed until recently,
(16:30):
Women in their twenties thirties forties, fifties, sixties, one woman
in her mid seventies. So yeah, that's my shiny ball,
my podcast worthy question. Why women? Why Now? One day
I was at a friend's birthday party and someone said
(16:51):
something I've never heard before.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
He said his mom was.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Diagnosed with ADHD early back in nineteen sixty three. I
couldn't resident. A week later, I was in Michigan meeting
his mom. If I wanted to figure out how we
missed this in an entire generation of women, I felt
like talking to someone who hadn't missed it was a
pretty good place to start.
Speaker 7 (17:13):
I was a famously active child, kinetic. The word then
was hyperactive.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
This is Emily Mitchell. She's a graphic designer in Traverse City, Michigan.
We met at her house and sat in a basement office.
Speaker 7 (17:27):
So I was famously hyperactive, kinetic, always moving. When you
hit public school and you're in kindergarten as I was,
there is naptim and I couldn't sit stillly still on
my matt. My mother made me a chain of safety
pins that we attached to my matt so I would
(17:49):
have something to.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
Do, something to play with somewhat quiet.
Speaker 7 (17:54):
She tried things that would help me not conformed, but
to participate in the ruction of the day. And because
I was young, I don't know how it went, but
say the teacher complained.
Speaker 6 (18:06):
And then my mother.
Speaker 7 (18:07):
Took me to a our doctor who was a pediatrician
who was young. He was just out of med school.
I mean, he was in a young crop of new
pediatricians and in Michigan, in the Detroit area, Oak Park, Michigan.
Speaker 6 (18:22):
And he I remember him.
Speaker 7 (18:24):
I was fond of him, and I felt special in
his office, you know. And he he said to my mother,
you know, Emily likes people, and the last thing she
needs is to be a problem to her teacher as
she starts for public education. That's not going to be
good for her. So I have something that we should try.
And it was Riddlin, and I took it and it helped.
Speaker 6 (18:46):
It helped.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
The first time we know of a doctor giving stimulants
to kids is in nineteen thirty seven. About twenty years later,
in nineteen fifty five, the FDA approved Riddlin as a
medication for adults battling depression and a handful of other conditions.
Then in nineteen sixty two, the FDA approved it for
use in children with attentional deficits and hyperactivity. A year later,
(19:10):
in nineteen sixty three, a young pediatrician recognized this in
six year old Emily, and he prescribed Riddlin.
Speaker 7 (19:18):
I called it my silly pill, my silly pill, and
that was just part of my life. So it helped
me be a good student. And we didn't realize that
until I stopped taking the Riddlin.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
The American Psychiatric Association published the second edition of the
DSM in nineteen sixty eight, when Emily was in fifth grade.
This edition described a condition called hyperkinetic reaction of childhood.
It's characterized by overactivity, restlessness, distractability, and short attention span.
The DSM said children outgrow this by the time they
(19:51):
become teenagers. Emily was eleven years old and she was
starting to feel self conscious about her silly pill.
Speaker 7 (19:57):
So when I was in fifth grade, I stopped taking it,
and my grades immediately went down.
Speaker 6 (20:03):
And it didn't alarm my parents.
Speaker 7 (20:05):
You know, I think it was just the thing to
do at the time, and you just you grow out
of that.
Speaker 6 (20:09):
You don't have to take that anymore, however.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Like you had grown out of it, like did you
as a fifth gear. Did you remember then having a
harder time sitting still? Or yeah, you're nodding.
Speaker 6 (20:18):
Couldn't focus on you know. The evidence is that my
grades went down and I graduated high school undistinguished academically
under three point zero.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
No one suspected that Emily's grades might somehow have been
affected by this hyperkinetic energy, because doctors thought kids outgrow
the condition. She was in high school in nineteen seventy
one when a Canadian psychologist named Virginia Douglas gave a
speech that would change everyone's understanding of hyperactivity, hyperkinesis, and
(20:50):
attentional disorders. This was at the annual meeting of the
Association of Canadian Psychologists. Doctor Douglas explained research she'd conducted
at Montreal Children's House Hospital, where she determined that hyperkinesis
is associated with attentional deficits and impulsivity. Hyperkinetic reaction of
childhood became known as attention deficit disorder ADD. In nineteen eighty,
(21:14):
the third edition of the DSM updated the diagnostic criteria
and officially changed the name. By then, Emily was a
recent art school grad living in Toronto. She was married,
building a life as a textile designer and weaver that.
Speaker 7 (21:29):
Wasn't even interested in the fuzzy stuff. It was the
structure and the fact that you could do something with
a slimp piece of thread and turned it into a whole.
Humankind's history of both art and function, that's an amazing
history and it was interesting to do my husband.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Emily started to gain a reputation in the art world.
One of her pieces was exhibited at a museum in
New York. But she and her husband were feeling the
pole to move home to Michigan.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
They bought an.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Old schoolhouse in Traverse City. It's a picturesque town, right
on the water. It's dreamy and in many ways, so
was their life. Financially, though it was tough. Emily waitressed
and continued making art. But being an artist in Traverse City,
Michigan wasn't the same as being an artist in Toronto.
Her husband had started a graphic design.
Speaker 7 (22:18):
Firm, so I joined the company and we've been together
as creative and life partners ever since.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
What a life.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
She met someone and fell in love, built a creative career,
moved to this beautiful place. They had two little boys.
Emily absolutely loved being a mom but a few years
into joining her husband at the design firm, Emily was
struggling at work.
Speaker 7 (22:39):
So I'm in a business now with deadlines. I'm in
business with a partner, someone who, in his case was
a champion workhorse, could get things done in a very
structured way, on time, reliably and at a high level,
at a high professional standard. I am very good at
generating ideas, but you have to close it.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Up, meaning you have to hit deadlines. And to hit
those deadlines, you have to be decisive. She would start
with lots of ideas. She could whittle the ideas down
to three front runners.
Speaker 7 (23:09):
And I might get stuck on the three and say, yeah,
I just see the potential in everything. I might say, well,
I really need to run out all three, you know,
I need to take these three the next level. Or
and then while you're looking at the three, you might say,
you know, this one has led me to a variation
that and so on.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
It was a problem because the schedule has only allowed
her to run through one final choice. She was doing
three times the work and it wasn't working. Emily was
figuring this out as it was happening. The company was
successful and the work was demanding. She was in a
high stakes environment. She loved it most days, but when deadlines.
Speaker 7 (23:49):
Approached, I suffered. So I was suffering at work. Also,
the just the office environment. You got a list of
things you have to get done every single day, So
I found myself often staying up all my and that
wasn't In some people's lives, that's not a problem, but
it was difficult for my partner. It caused a lot
(24:09):
of anxiety for him. That was a painful for me.
It was painful for me because I don't like letting
people down, which, if you remember the doctor in kindergarten,
Emily likes people. She does not like to be a
problem to people. And I didn't when I was twenty
four or thirty eight either.
Speaker 6 (24:28):
So I started wondering it was just.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
You felt down.
Speaker 7 (24:32):
Yeah, yeah, But in the meantime, we know we're starting
to have a family of small children and we're running
this business.
Speaker 6 (24:39):
So I think I spoke to.
Speaker 7 (24:41):
A guidance counselor the local college to double check that
I had made a good decision.
Speaker 6 (24:48):
You know, it wasn't the profession. It was office work, office.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
Work in the job that you choose.
Speaker 7 (24:53):
Yeah, why am I unhappy in my job. You know,
you know, why does this feel? It's just so stressful.
I ended up speaking to my family doctor annual physical
how are you?
Speaker 6 (25:07):
How you doing?
Speaker 7 (25:08):
And he said, you know you you let's have a
look at your brain. It might be just your brain
that the way your brain is.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
So I went in nineties.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Emily stopped to do the math. She counted on her
fingers and we laughed, because this is something I do too.
Emily thinks she talked to her doctor when she was thirty,
so that would be nineteen eighty seven or eighty eight.
They talked about her medical history, including the diagnosis in
kindergarten and her silly pill. By then, doctors were starting
to recognize that adults often have symptoms of ADHD, but
(25:42):
officially it was still considered a condition of childhood. Emily
was lucky to have a doctor who was up to
date on the clinical findings.
Speaker 7 (25:49):
So at thirty I was diagnosed with ADD. There's no
mention of H. There's no H in there.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
A revised edition of the DSM combined ADD and hyperactivity
in nineteen eighty seven, now officially calling it ADHD. It was
a controversial update and one that didn't quite reach Emily.
At the time, she still thought of her childhood condition
and her add as separate things. It would be a
few more years before she connected them. Still, she had
(26:18):
her diagnosis and it helped.
Speaker 7 (26:20):
It answered a lot of questions about my path to
that point. And it did help me make a list
in my day job and stick to the list, and
to just use my time differently. There was impulsivity. It
helped with that less interrupting, so it was about work.
(26:42):
The goal was to be productive at work.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
And it worked.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Emily is my idea of the best case scenario. Each
time she recognized a challenge, she sought help, and she
was diagnosed according to the most advanced scientific understanding of
the time. Most women didn't have this sort of law
or privilege. Emily is quick to acknowledge that she comes
from a highly educated, open minded family. She had access
to great doctors and they treated her appropriately. It helped
(27:09):
that she had symptoms most commonly associated with boys, but
still her experience is rare. Ideally, the science would have
moved faster, but it advanced quickly enough to meet most
of her needs. There was still one complication of her
ADHD that she couldn't quite figure out it wasn't about
her ability to make deadlines. It had more to do
(27:30):
with the way people treated her when she struggled with
those deadlines. She grew up in a family where she
was cherished and celebrated. She said she didn't really know
criticism until she became an adult. Now, people including her husband,
expected her to do things in certain ways, and when
she didn't, they were harsh. She struggled with this for
(27:50):
once her doctors didn't have a new diagnosis. She read
everything she could find on adult ADHD. She saw that
someone was hosting a conference in Michigan to discuss adult ADHD,
and she went.
Speaker 7 (28:02):
I just was very curious about how to really thrive,
you know, to really stay with it, about that brain trait,
and to be in the company of people who were
putting on workshops and conferences.
Speaker 6 (28:17):
They happened to be almost entirely by women about women.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
At one of these conferences, Emily picked up a book
called Women with add.
Speaker 7 (28:28):
My copy of that book is full of pencil on
every page.
Speaker 6 (28:32):
It was about my job.
Speaker 7 (28:33):
It was also about my marriage and my partnership and
what kind of partner I chosen, how it was playing
out that way.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
The book was written by a woman named Sari Sulden.
It was published in nineteen ninety five. Emily said it
helped her understand the emotional side of ADHD. For her,
it was the final piece of the puzzle. But wait,
nineteen ninety five, what about that common story I'd heard
that women were only now being diagnosed because up until recently,
(29:00):
no one understood how ADHD impacts girls and women. I've
seen versions of this story reported in the New York Times,
The Guardian, the New York Post, and all over digital media.
I've heard it in newscasts. Friends say it. A psychiatrist
said it to me as she diagnosed me. It's a
clean story. I bought it and repeated it. Then I
(29:22):
read Sari Stulten's book, and I realized there's a problem
with this version of events, in which doctors just didn't
know how women experience ADHD. The problem is it's not true.
Sari lives a few hours from Emily, so I went
to see her, and that day she helped me understand
(29:43):
my questions why women?
Speaker 4 (29:45):
Why now? In New ways, there.
Speaker 8 (29:47):
Was a huge fight keeping out adults.
Speaker 4 (29:50):
And then women.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Sari was deep in this fight She never planned to
be a pioneer, but she became one when she wrote
about what it's like for women with ADHD.
Speaker 8 (30:00):
You don't usually get to be there at the birth
of a whole new way of looking at human beings,
and that was what it was, and that was why
it was eye openers, like, Wow, we can look at
these people and ourselves to this new lens.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
That's next time Unclimbing the Walls. Climbing the Walls was
written and reported by me Danielle Elliott. It was edited
by Neil Drumming. Sound designed by Cody Nelson. Brianna Barry
was our production director. Ash Beecher was our supervising producer
and Diana White was our associate producer. Fact checking by
(30:33):
Mary Mathis, research by Karen Wattanabe. Our music was composed
by Quame Brant Pearce, with additional music provided by Blue
Dot Sessions, and our mixing was done by Justin d.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
Wright.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
The series was brought to you by Understood dot Org,
a nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering people with learning and
thinking differences like ADHD and dyslexia. From Understood dot Org,
our executive directors are Laura Key, Scott Cochier, and Seth Melnick.
A very special thanks to Ray Jacobsen, Julie Zeitz, Jordan Davidson,
(31:08):
Sarah Greenberg, and Kathleen Nadou. If you want to help
Understood continue this work, consider making a donation at Understood
dot org slash give.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
That was the first episode of Climbing the Walls. Wasn't
it fantastic? To listen to more episodes, search for Climbing
the Walls in your favorite podcast app that's Climbing the Walls.
Thanks for joining me on the Beautifully Complex podcast. If
you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share, and don't
(31:49):
forget to check out my online courses and parentcoaching at
PARENTINGADHD and Autism dot com and at The Behavior Revolution
dot com.
Welcome to the Beautifully Complex podcast, where I share insights
and strategies on parenting neurodivergent kids, straight from the trenches.
I'm your host, Penny Williams. I'm a parenting coach, author
and mindset mama, honored to guide you on the journey
of raising your atypical kid. Let's get started. Welcome everyone.
(00:26):
In this episode, we're doing something a little bit different.
I want to play you an episode of another show
that I think you will like and will be relatable
for you. It's called Climbing the Walls. This six part
series investigates why women with ADHD have gone undiagnosed for
(00:49):
so long and how that changed dramatically during the pandemic
when the diagnosis of ADHD and women skyrocketed. This show
Why Women, Why Now? How has underdiagnosis impacted women's mental health?
I checked out the first episode and I was blown away.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Y'all.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Not only is it shining a much needed spotlight on
ADHD in women and girls, but it's full of so
many facts about ADHD that are largely unknown to the
public and rarely communicated to the individual or the parent
at the time of diagnosis. They discussed so many things
(01:33):
that I wish I had known when my kid was diagnosed,
instead of learning them on my own over multiple years.
So here it is. I hope you enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
I've never been all that good at listening to instructions.
When flight attendants ask passengers to put their phones on
airplane mode, I don't. I usually scroll in stie until
we lose service. That's what I was doing one morning
in February twenty twenty four. I was scrolling Instagram when
the little red icon appeared in the top left corner
of the app a new message. I opened it. It
(02:13):
was a link to a video. My thumb was hovering
over it. As the wheels lifted off the runway, I
saw the top half of the news anchor's head and
the logo for Fox News. The screen froze like that.
At the time, I was working on a film about
affirmative action, so I assumed that the link had something
to do with that. We were in the air for
about six hours, and as we landed, I opened Instagram again.
(02:37):
I saw four more messages. Everyone was sending me the
same link. As it loaded, I realized it had nothing
to do with affirmative action.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Adult women are being diagnosed with ADHD at a record pace.
In just two years, diagnosis rate has nearly doubled. So
what's drying?
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Ah? Yes, ADHD attention deficit high activity disorder.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Phones could be a root cause, but ironically it's also
what's raising awareness about it.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
It was all over the news that week.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Joining us now is Brooke Schnittman. She's an ADHD and
executive function coach. It's great to have you here, So
tell us why why?
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Women? Why now?
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Why are these diagnoses going up?
Speaker 5 (03:20):
Diagnosis in ADHD is going People are understanding more about
themselves since the pandemic. So when we had so much
downtime to really understand ourselves, that's when mental health was
on the rise.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
And it seemed like Brooke had more to say, but
the anchor jumped in.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
But you know, all of us are distracted because of
our phones, right. I can be reading the Wall Street
Journal editorial page at night. I'm like, wait, let me
check what my sister just sent me on Instagram. But
where's the line between someone who feels distracted because of
their phone and someone who actually has ADHD and gets
a diagnosis like that?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
And I knew exactly why my friends were sending me
this clip. Why are so many women being diagnosed with ADHD?
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Do they really have it?
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I started asking these questions sometime in the summer of
twenty twenty two, a few months after I joined the
ranks of the recently diagnosed. Listening to a news anchor
question the rise and diagnosis, I realized, I really do
want to know why women?
Speaker 4 (04:24):
Why now.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
For the last year or so, I've tried to answer
these questions. I've talked to scientists, doctors, and I've talked
to many many women who have ADHD, some who were
recently diagnosed, others who have known for decades. This is
a story about science, social expectations, stress, and the way
we live. It's about who we trust. Most importantly, it's
(04:48):
a story about women. This is climbing the walls. I'm
Daniel Elliott. I had a fairly unique pandemic experience. I
(05:14):
started dating someone in the first week. I was thirty five,
and this was honestly my first relationship, unless you know,
you actually want to count the revolving door of four
month situations I've been in for the last ten years. Anyway,
everything was new, and it was distracting me from everything else.
Happening in the world. We moved in together. Things were
good for a while. I remember waking up one morning
(05:39):
and just staring at the wall, not really moving. I
laid there long enough that my partner looked at me
and said, are you okay, and still without moving, I said.
We used to be able to get on planes and
a few hours later land in a completely different part
of the world. I just missed being able to be
anywhere else. A few months later, we got vaccinate. A
(06:00):
few months after that, we broke up. I stashed a
few boxes at my parents' house, booked a flight, and left.
I spent the next two months working remotely from Mexico
and Belize, then went to California and Colorado for work.
It was fun, but the whole time I kept thinking
about the night we broke up.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
We needed to break up. We both knew this was coming.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
He initiated a conversation and I exploded.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
I had this visceral reaction.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
I said things that I knew would cut deep. I
couldn't look at him. I started packing, taking frames off
the walls. I felt out of control, and it felt
really out of character. I don't yell at people, ever,
I thought I'd learned to control my emotions, but that
night I acted like a child, So three months later
I was still beating myself up over it. One night
(06:51):
I googled extreme reactions to rejection and this article popped
up about something called rejection sensitive dysphoria RSD. I'd never
heard of it. One magazine article described it like this.
It is always triggered by the perceived or real loss
of approval, love, or respect. It looks like an impressive,
(07:12):
instantaneous rage at the person or situation responsible for causing
the pain. Some people use the pain of RSD to
find adaptations and overachieve. They constantly work to be the
best of what they do and strive for idealized perfection.
The last section of the article started with this sentence,
Rejection sensitivity is part of ADHD. I remember reading that
(07:36):
sentence and thinking, wait, do I have ADHD. I didn't
really think I could, because, as far as I knew,
ADHD meant you couldn't focus. When I'm interested in something
or I have a deadline, I focus so well that
I sort of forget the rest of the world exists.
I found an article on ADHD. It explained that ADHD
(07:59):
is a spectrum of attentional issues. The next day I
talked to my therapist. She suggested I take a self screener,
so I took it and it said that I have
symptoms of ADHD, and I, for lack of a better word,
I pouted. I didn't want to have ADHD. Everything I
(08:19):
read said that women with ADHD struggle in relationships, careers,
and as parents. I wanted to believe I'd figure these
things out. And to hear I might have a condition
that apparently makes it harder to do these things, it
felt scary. I booked a telehealth appointment with a psychiatrist.
(08:39):
On a cold morning in February twenty twenty two, I
sat down in front of my computer, logged into a
video platform, and started talking to a psychiatrist, having made
the diagnosis.
Speaker 5 (08:50):
If it's not like so glaringly obvious child, usually it's
the hyperactivity symptoms.
Speaker 6 (08:56):
That draw attention.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
There was a cop outside my wind.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
I looked back at the screen and tried to focus
on what the psychiatrist was saying. She seemed to be
sitting on a bench at a kitchen table. I could
see a green lawn behind her and wondered where she lived.
I realized I was distracted and tried to tune back in.
She was still explaining how teachers or doctors usually spot
ADHD in kids.
Speaker 7 (09:17):
The teacher is saying, oh, Billy, you're really wick right.
It's often harder when it's more the attentional symptoms.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
I was recording on my phone because I wanted to
be able to listen back to what she said about treatment.
I wanted to get this right. She explained that girls
with ADHD are usually not as hyperactive or disruptive as
boys with ADHD, and since they're not disturbing their classmates
or their teachers, their symptoms go unnoticed. She asked me
(09:47):
about my childhood. How did I do in school? Did
I make friends? Do I have any specific memories? I
told her stories from preschool, kindergarten, second grade, fifth grade,
seventh grade. I asked her if ADHD is I didn't
talk or walk until a year after most kids my age.
My mom says she had me tested for special education preschool,
but I didn't get in. In grad school, my advisor
(10:10):
always said, Danielle, I think you have shiny ball syndrome.
None of us suspected an actual syndrome. I just like
chasing new ideas usually before finishing whatever I'm working on.
Ten minutes into the call, the doctor said she thinks
I have ADHD. I wanted this to be much more complicated.
I wanted her to do a whole series of tests.
(10:31):
But there are no definitive biological markers for ADHD, no
blood test that says yep, you have it. Instead, the
diagnosis is based on your experiences throughout your life and
your family history. The official criteria is listed in a
book called the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders
the DSM. It's published by the American Psychiatric Association. The
(10:55):
DSM says that symptoms of ADHD develop by the time
person turns twelve. If the symptoms begin after that, it's
not Adhdly.
Speaker 5 (11:05):
Our executive function right from the frontal lobe is the
seed of a lot of this, and it's tricky. Our
front a lobe is not fully developed into well into teenage.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Here so the way, So again, this is a lot
of executive function.
Speaker 8 (11:19):
So executive function is a lot of part of our cognition.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
She went on like this a little bit longer, talking
about something called executive function, which I'd never heard of
Then she prescribed a stimulant, which is a type of
medication often used to treat ADHD, and with that I
joined the ranks of what seemed to be a rapidly
emerging demographic women diagnosed with ADHD during the pandemic. One
(11:45):
five hundred dollars video appointment and I was now one
of those women. Fox News was talking about. My insurance
didn't even cover it. I wasn't sure. I wanted to
be honest stimulant. I wasn't sure I wanted to hear
any of this honestly, but I dug into it anyway,
doing my research alongside self discovery. That's what I do,
(12:05):
after all, I should mention I'm a science journalist. I
also produced documentaries and podcasts. The more I learned about ADHD,
it was clear that I have it, and I learned
that it was so much more than what I had
thought it was. I thought it was about focus and attention,
but it turns out it's also about emotional regulation and
scheduling and your ability to stay organized and sustain interests.
(12:28):
I read things that said people with ADHD have a
constant battle between structure and stimulation, and that we have
strong internal voices that are often completely set on telling
us that we're doing everything wrong. On social media, there
were a lot of women talking about ADHD, and honestly,
they all seemed a lot like me, college educated, mostly
(12:50):
well adjusted, white women who apparently wanted to be more adjusted,
and that started to give me doubts. I would scroll
through Instagram and TikTok and think, you all seem to
have part and children and big enough careers to help
you reach large audiences on social media. If you have ADHD,
how do you stay organized enough to create all this content?
(13:10):
Is there any chance you're just capitalizing on this moment
when ADHD seems to be trending. I don't like to
minimize anyone else's experience. I think I was just pushing
back against the idea that I had ADHD by proposing
that maybe none of us women had it, that maybe
we just weren't good enough, as if that's somehow better.
(13:33):
You can't spell Danielle without denial. My notion of who
was talking about ADHD started to expand When I moved
(13:56):
into a new apartment that summer, great light, closet space
friendly building. I got to know three of the women
on my floor we were watching TV one night and
one of them mentioned her ADHD. Another one of the
women jumped in and said, oh, I was diagnosed last year.
Over the next few months, I started hearing this everywhere.
A bartender at my favorite spot, two friends talking on
(14:18):
the train, friends telling me about their moms being diagnosed.
Unlike what I saw on social media, they weren't all
white women. Then researchers published data that supported what I
was seeing around me. Tons of women are being diagnosed
with ADHD. From twenty twenty to twenty twenty two, the
rate of diagnosis skyrocketed. Okay, let me get inside your
(14:41):
head for a minute. You're probably thinking, what's the big deal.
A lot of women were diagnosed with ADHD in the
past few years. So what sounds like you made some
new friends and got some helpful meds out of it.
Why are you so mystified? Like this subject needs a podcast?
Mystified is this year lates shit? It goes back to
(15:02):
what the psychiatrist told me on the phone about why
my own ADHD wasn't identified when I was a kid.
Girls tend to have different symptoms, she'd said, hyperactivity is
much less common our brains, though no less unique than
that of any rambunctious boys slipped under the radar. For many,
many years, this was the accepted wisdom. Doctors weren't diagnosing
(15:24):
ADHD in girls because they simply didn't know they had it.
One doctor told me that in the nineteen seventies and
early eighties he was taught the ratio of boys to
girls with ADHD was ten to one. On top of that,
the medical community also firmly believed that people outgrow ADHD
(15:44):
in adulthood. Those two beliefs together meant that very little
thought was ever given to women grown up, adult women
having ADHD. When I was in grad school in twenty
thirteen and my advice joked that I had shiny ball syndrome,
she didn't consider that I might have ADHD. I was
(16:06):
studying science journalism. I read so many journals and articles
that year and never came across anything that would suggest
such an idea. Obviously, something had changed in the last
few years. Women with ADHD were now being found everywhere,
from my apartment building to Fox News. I talked to
dozens of women who, like me, went undiagnosed until recently,
(16:30):
Women in their twenties thirties forties, fifties, sixties, one woman
in her mid seventies. So yeah, that's my shiny ball,
my podcast worthy question. Why women? Why Now? One day
I was at a friend's birthday party and someone said
(16:51):
something I've never heard before.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
He said his mom was.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Diagnosed with ADHD early back in nineteen sixty three. I
couldn't resident. A week later, I was in Michigan meeting
his mom. If I wanted to figure out how we
missed this in an entire generation of women, I felt
like talking to someone who hadn't missed it was a
pretty good place to start.
Speaker 7 (17:13):
I was a famously active child, kinetic. The word then
was hyperactive.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
This is Emily Mitchell. She's a graphic designer in Traverse City, Michigan.
We met at her house and sat in a basement office.
Speaker 7 (17:27):
So I was famously hyperactive, kinetic, always moving. When you
hit public school and you're in kindergarten as I was,
there is naptim and I couldn't sit stillly still on
my matt. My mother made me a chain of safety
pins that we attached to my matt so I would
(17:49):
have something to.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
Do, something to play with somewhat quiet.
Speaker 7 (17:54):
She tried things that would help me not conformed, but
to participate in the ruction of the day. And because
I was young, I don't know how it went, but
say the teacher complained.
Speaker 6 (18:06):
And then my mother.
Speaker 7 (18:07):
Took me to a our doctor who was a pediatrician
who was young. He was just out of med school.
I mean, he was in a young crop of new
pediatricians and in Michigan, in the Detroit area, Oak Park, Michigan.
Speaker 6 (18:22):
And he I remember him.
Speaker 7 (18:24):
I was fond of him, and I felt special in
his office, you know. And he he said to my mother,
you know, Emily likes people, and the last thing she
needs is to be a problem to her teacher as
she starts for public education. That's not going to be
good for her. So I have something that we should try.
And it was Riddlin, and I took it and it helped.
Speaker 6 (18:46):
It helped.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
The first time we know of a doctor giving stimulants
to kids is in nineteen thirty seven. About twenty years later,
in nineteen fifty five, the FDA approved Riddlin as a
medication for adults battling depression and a handful of other conditions.
Then in nineteen sixty two, the FDA approved it for
use in children with attentional deficits and hyperactivity. A year later,
(19:10):
in nineteen sixty three, a young pediatrician recognized this in
six year old Emily, and he prescribed Riddlin.
Speaker 7 (19:18):
I called it my silly pill, my silly pill, and
that was just part of my life. So it helped
me be a good student. And we didn't realize that
until I stopped taking the Riddlin.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
The American Psychiatric Association published the second edition of the
DSM in nineteen sixty eight, when Emily was in fifth grade.
This edition described a condition called hyperkinetic reaction of childhood.
It's characterized by overactivity, restlessness, distractability, and short attention span.
The DSM said children outgrow this by the time they
(19:51):
become teenagers. Emily was eleven years old and she was
starting to feel self conscious about her silly pill.
Speaker 7 (19:57):
So when I was in fifth grade, I stopped taking it,
and my grades immediately went down.
Speaker 6 (20:03):
And it didn't alarm my parents.
Speaker 7 (20:05):
You know, I think it was just the thing to
do at the time, and you just you grow out
of that.
Speaker 6 (20:09):
You don't have to take that anymore, however.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Like you had grown out of it, like did you
as a fifth gear. Did you remember then having a
harder time sitting still? Or yeah, you're nodding.
Speaker 6 (20:18):
Couldn't focus on you know. The evidence is that my
grades went down and I graduated high school undistinguished academically
under three point zero.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
No one suspected that Emily's grades might somehow have been
affected by this hyperkinetic energy, because doctors thought kids outgrow
the condition. She was in high school in nineteen seventy
one when a Canadian psychologist named Virginia Douglas gave a
speech that would change everyone's understanding of hyperactivity, hyperkinesis, and
(20:50):
attentional disorders. This was at the annual meeting of the
Association of Canadian Psychologists. Doctor Douglas explained research she'd conducted
at Montreal Children's House Hospital, where she determined that hyperkinesis
is associated with attentional deficits and impulsivity. Hyperkinetic reaction of
childhood became known as attention deficit disorder ADD. In nineteen eighty,
(21:14):
the third edition of the DSM updated the diagnostic criteria
and officially changed the name. By then, Emily was a
recent art school grad living in Toronto. She was married,
building a life as a textile designer and weaver that.
Speaker 7 (21:29):
Wasn't even interested in the fuzzy stuff. It was the
structure and the fact that you could do something with
a slimp piece of thread and turned it into a whole.
Humankind's history of both art and function, that's an amazing
history and it was interesting to do my husband.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Emily started to gain a reputation in the art world.
One of her pieces was exhibited at a museum in
New York. But she and her husband were feeling the
pole to move home to Michigan.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
They bought an.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Old schoolhouse in Traverse City. It's a picturesque town, right
on the water. It's dreamy and in many ways, so
was their life. Financially, though it was tough. Emily waitressed
and continued making art. But being an artist in Traverse City,
Michigan wasn't the same as being an artist in Toronto.
Her husband had started a graphic design.
Speaker 7 (22:18):
Firm, so I joined the company and we've been together
as creative and life partners ever since.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
What a life.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
She met someone and fell in love, built a creative career,
moved to this beautiful place. They had two little boys.
Emily absolutely loved being a mom but a few years
into joining her husband at the design firm, Emily was
struggling at work.
Speaker 7 (22:39):
So I'm in a business now with deadlines. I'm in
business with a partner, someone who, in his case was
a champion workhorse, could get things done in a very
structured way, on time, reliably and at a high level,
at a high professional standard. I am very good at
generating ideas, but you have to close it.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Up, meaning you have to hit deadlines. And to hit
those deadlines, you have to be decisive. She would start
with lots of ideas. She could whittle the ideas down
to three front runners.
Speaker 7 (23:09):
And I might get stuck on the three and say, yeah,
I just see the potential in everything. I might say, well,
I really need to run out all three, you know,
I need to take these three the next level. Or
and then while you're looking at the three, you might say,
you know, this one has led me to a variation
that and so on.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
It was a problem because the schedule has only allowed
her to run through one final choice. She was doing
three times the work and it wasn't working. Emily was
figuring this out as it was happening. The company was
successful and the work was demanding. She was in a
high stakes environment. She loved it most days, but when deadlines.
Speaker 7 (23:49):
Approached, I suffered. So I was suffering at work. Also,
the just the office environment. You got a list of
things you have to get done every single day, So
I found myself often staying up all my and that
wasn't In some people's lives, that's not a problem, but
it was difficult for my partner. It caused a lot
(24:09):
of anxiety for him. That was a painful for me.
It was painful for me because I don't like letting
people down, which, if you remember the doctor in kindergarten,
Emily likes people. She does not like to be a
problem to people. And I didn't when I was twenty
four or thirty eight either.
Speaker 6 (24:28):
So I started wondering it was just.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
You felt down.
Speaker 7 (24:32):
Yeah, yeah, But in the meantime, we know we're starting
to have a family of small children and we're running
this business.
Speaker 6 (24:39):
So I think I spoke to.
Speaker 7 (24:41):
A guidance counselor the local college to double check that
I had made a good decision.
Speaker 6 (24:48):
You know, it wasn't the profession. It was office work, office.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
Work in the job that you choose.
Speaker 7 (24:53):
Yeah, why am I unhappy in my job. You know,
you know, why does this feel? It's just so stressful.
I ended up speaking to my family doctor annual physical
how are you?
Speaker 6 (25:07):
How you doing?
Speaker 7 (25:08):
And he said, you know you you let's have a
look at your brain. It might be just your brain
that the way your brain is.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
So I went in nineties.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Emily stopped to do the math. She counted on her
fingers and we laughed, because this is something I do too.
Emily thinks she talked to her doctor when she was thirty,
so that would be nineteen eighty seven or eighty eight.
They talked about her medical history, including the diagnosis in
kindergarten and her silly pill. By then, doctors were starting
to recognize that adults often have symptoms of ADHD, but
(25:42):
officially it was still considered a condition of childhood. Emily
was lucky to have a doctor who was up to
date on the clinical findings.
Speaker 7 (25:49):
So at thirty I was diagnosed with ADD. There's no
mention of H. There's no H in there.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
A revised edition of the DSM combined ADD and hyperactivity
in nineteen eighty seven, now officially calling it ADHD. It was
a controversial update and one that didn't quite reach Emily.
At the time, she still thought of her childhood condition
and her add as separate things. It would be a
few more years before she connected them. Still, she had
(26:18):
her diagnosis and it helped.
Speaker 7 (26:20):
It answered a lot of questions about my path to
that point. And it did help me make a list
in my day job and stick to the list, and
to just use my time differently. There was impulsivity. It
helped with that less interrupting, so it was about work.
(26:42):
The goal was to be productive at work.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
And it worked.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Emily is my idea of the best case scenario. Each
time she recognized a challenge, she sought help, and she
was diagnosed according to the most advanced scientific understanding of
the time. Most women didn't have this sort of law
or privilege. Emily is quick to acknowledge that she comes
from a highly educated, open minded family. She had access
to great doctors and they treated her appropriately. It helped
(27:09):
that she had symptoms most commonly associated with boys, but
still her experience is rare. Ideally, the science would have
moved faster, but it advanced quickly enough to meet most
of her needs. There was still one complication of her
ADHD that she couldn't quite figure out it wasn't about
her ability to make deadlines. It had more to do
(27:30):
with the way people treated her when she struggled with
those deadlines. She grew up in a family where she
was cherished and celebrated. She said she didn't really know
criticism until she became an adult. Now, people including her husband,
expected her to do things in certain ways, and when
she didn't, they were harsh. She struggled with this for
(27:50):
once her doctors didn't have a new diagnosis. She read
everything she could find on adult ADHD. She saw that
someone was hosting a conference in Michigan to discuss adult ADHD,
and she went.
Speaker 7 (28:02):
I just was very curious about how to really thrive,
you know, to really stay with it, about that brain trait,
and to be in the company of people who were
putting on workshops and conferences.
Speaker 6 (28:17):
They happened to be almost entirely by women about women.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
At one of these conferences, Emily picked up a book
called Women with add.
Speaker 7 (28:28):
My copy of that book is full of pencil on
every page.
Speaker 6 (28:32):
It was about my job.
Speaker 7 (28:33):
It was also about my marriage and my partnership and
what kind of partner I chosen, how it was playing
out that way.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
The book was written by a woman named Sari Sulden.
It was published in nineteen ninety five. Emily said it
helped her understand the emotional side of ADHD. For her,
it was the final piece of the puzzle. But wait,
nineteen ninety five, what about that common story I'd heard
that women were only now being diagnosed because up until recently,
(29:00):
no one understood how ADHD impacts girls and women. I've
seen versions of this story reported in the New York Times,
The Guardian, the New York Post, and all over digital media.
I've heard it in newscasts. Friends say it. A psychiatrist
said it to me as she diagnosed me. It's a
clean story. I bought it and repeated it. Then I
(29:22):
read Sari Stulten's book, and I realized there's a problem
with this version of events, in which doctors just didn't
know how women experience ADHD. The problem is it's not true.
Sari lives a few hours from Emily, so I went
to see her, and that day she helped me understand
(29:43):
my questions why women?
Speaker 4 (29:45):
Why now? In New ways, there.
Speaker 8 (29:47):
Was a huge fight keeping out adults.
Speaker 4 (29:50):
And then women.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Sari was deep in this fight She never planned to
be a pioneer, but she became one when she wrote
about what it's like for women with ADHD.
Speaker 8 (30:00):
You don't usually get to be there at the birth
of a whole new way of looking at human beings,
and that was what it was, and that was why
it was eye openers, like, Wow, we can look at
these people and ourselves to this new lens.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
That's next time Unclimbing the Walls. Climbing the Walls was
written and reported by me Danielle Elliott. It was edited
by Neil Drumming. Sound designed by Cody Nelson. Brianna Barry
was our production director. Ash Beecher was our supervising producer
and Diana White was our associate producer. Fact checking by
(30:33):
Mary Mathis, research by Karen Wattanabe. Our music was composed
by Quame Brant Pearce, with additional music provided by Blue
Dot Sessions, and our mixing was done by Justin d.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
Wright.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
The series was brought to you by Understood dot Org,
a nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering people with learning and
thinking differences like ADHD and dyslexia. From Understood dot Org,
our executive directors are Laura Key, Scott Cochier, and Seth Melnick.
A very special thanks to Ray Jacobsen, Julie Zeitz, Jordan Davidson,
(31:08):
Sarah Greenberg, and Kathleen Nadou. If you want to help
Understood continue this work, consider making a donation at Understood
dot org slash give.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
That was the first episode of Climbing the Walls. Wasn't
it fantastic? To listen to more episodes, search for Climbing
the Walls in your favorite podcast app that's Climbing the Walls.
Thanks for joining me on the Beautifully Complex podcast. If
you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share, and don't
(31:49):
forget to check out my online courses and parentcoaching at
PARENTINGADHD and Autism dot com and at The Behavior Revolution
dot com.
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