Walking into school meetings can feel like navigating a minefield while carrying the weight of your child’s future.
You're not alone — and in this episode, I sit down with education advocate and parent coach Scotti Weintraub to unpack how to have better, calmer, more productive conversations with your child’s teacher, especially when things are hard. We dig into the reality that most teachers aren’t trained in neurodivergence, and how parents can advocate without alienating and burning bridges. From leading with curiosity to asking, “Can I share this with you?,” instead of handing over a stack of articles, this conversation is packed with strategies for fostering mutual respect, trust, and teamwork.
If you’ve ever dreaded that parent-teacher conference or IEP meeting, this episode is your roadmap to more effective and empowering communication.
Tune in now to learn how to build the kind of teacher partnerships that actually help your neurodivergent child thrive.
You can find additional resources at parentingadhdandautism.com and Regulated Kids.com — because it’s not just about the struggles, it’s about progress, one step at a time.
Show notes and more resources at parentingadhdandautism.com/314.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/beautifully-complex--6137613/support.
You're not alone — and in this episode, I sit down with education advocate and parent coach Scotti Weintraub to unpack how to have better, calmer, more productive conversations with your child’s teacher, especially when things are hard. We dig into the reality that most teachers aren’t trained in neurodivergence, and how parents can advocate without alienating and burning bridges. From leading with curiosity to asking, “Can I share this with you?,” instead of handing over a stack of articles, this conversation is packed with strategies for fostering mutual respect, trust, and teamwork.
If you’ve ever dreaded that parent-teacher conference or IEP meeting, this episode is your roadmap to more effective and empowering communication.
Tune in now to learn how to build the kind of teacher partnerships that actually help your neurodivergent child thrive.
You can find additional resources at parentingadhdandautism.com and Regulated Kids.com — because it’s not just about the struggles, it’s about progress, one step at a time.
Show notes and more resources at parentingadhdandautism.com/314.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/beautifully-complex--6137613/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
When you know things are not going well and your
mama bear instinct says like I'm going to go in
there and tell them what needs to happen. We got
to kind of bring that back in with that idea
that collaboration really is the long term best strategy, because
you don't want to burn bridges or strain a relationship
(00:24):
that you know you're going to have to have for
quite a while.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welcome to the Beautifully Complex podcast, where I share insights
and strategies on parenting neurodivergent kids straight from the trenches.
I'm your host, Penny Williams. I'm a parenting coach, author
and mindset mama, honored to guide you on the journey
of raising your atypical kid. Let's get started. Hey, everybody,
(00:53):
welcome back to Beautifully Complex. I have my friends Gotti
Winetroub here with me, who is an advocate for education
and differently wired kids, and we're going to talk about
conversations with teachers, which I think is so very important
and for any parents with anxiety, this is really an
(01:16):
anxiety provoking thing to have these their hard conversations to say,
you know things aren't going well, what can we do?
How do we fix this, And in this particular conversation,
we're going to focus a lot on talking to your
kids teachers about their brain, how their unique brain is working,
(01:39):
and how that understanding, hopefully is then going to translate
into the understanding of the anxiety accommodations that kids need
to succeed in the classroom. Scotty, will you start though,
by letting everybody know who you are and what you do.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Hi, Penny, thanks so much for having me. It's always
a pleasure. I am. As you said of Scotty Wanting.
I'm the founder of Reframe Parenting and I help parents
find roadmaps to school success and I do that through
coaching and education. But really my focus is on helping
(02:15):
parents get the supports that there are students need and
deserve to help all students shine at school, no matter what.
I believe fundamentally that all kids deserve to do well
at school, whatever doing well looks like, and it can be,
you know, it can be a lot of different things,
but that's sort of the foundation.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yeah, And it's so difficult, and the journey looks different
for every student and every family, and it looks different
in every classroom. Honestly, like every year with a new teacher.
We were starting from scratch. We had to do the educating,
We had to get to know you, they had to
connect if they were going to connect, and all these things,
right that go into it. But I think at the
foundation of it is this information about how our kids'
(02:59):
brains work differently and how that means that they need
something different in the classroom. Right. It's not just I'm
going to tell you that my kids' brain works differently,
and here's how we also have to help them translate
that right into what the kid or the student needs.
Where do we start with this conversation or is there
even like groundwork that we can set before we have
(03:22):
this conversation.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Well, yes, and yes, so I think the more we
know as parents about how our kids' unique brain works,
it's going to benefit us both at home and when
we have those conversations with schools.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
So part of what I work with parents about is
really doing that investigative work uncovering. And sometimes people come
and they already they already have a diagnosis, they know
their child has ADHD, for instance, but sometimes they just
know that things are not going well at school and
maybe they're not going well at home, but sometimes it's
just happening at school, and so it can be hard
to tease out what actually is happening. And so I
(03:59):
work with families to do that investigative work, to ask questions,
to you know, make observations, and then use that data
that you collect that it's really useful information when we
stop and take sort of a bigger, you know, thousand
foot view, like what are we seeing instead of just
focusing on, you know, the challenge itself. But let's back
(04:19):
up and look at, you know, what what's coming before that?
What are the triggers. Where are there particular topics that
they seem in school that they seem to have the
most challenge with. You know, they like science, but reading
for some reason, And okay, let's dig into that. What
about their reading? So that work. If you can do
(04:41):
that work, then when you come to the teacher, you
are armed with so much useful information. You're not just
coming to the teacher saying, oh my goodness, my kid
is struggling and I don't know what to do. So
it puts you in a position of confidence and power
to have the information that you need.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, and I would think about like times a day too, right, Absolutely,
does your kids struggle more in the morning or the
afternoon or with a particular like quiet time activity or
is it more when things are free or more when
they're structured, like there's so many variables, right.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Or are they sitting next to a certain person that
is you know, really distracting for them? Those are all
really good pieces of information to have so that when
you have the conversations with the teacher, you can say,
you know, when my son sits next to the student,
it seems that they're dynamic. And this is not a judgment,
of course, but their dynamic is that they distract each other.
(05:38):
Then that opens up conversation about okay, well what can
we try instead? So coming to those conversations with as
much information as you can is like my number one
starting point. And if you have that, if you happen
to have a diagnosis, or you've done things like a
you know, some sort of screening or psychological evaluation, those
(06:00):
are useful data points too, and sometimes they will bring
with them those reports will have, you know, suggestions. But
even if you don't have that, knowing what you know
as a parent, because you know your kid best, right,
you might not be in the school setting. But you
know them, you know their personality, you know their quirks,
you know their strengths, and being prepared to communicate that
(06:22):
information is really the best way I think to go
into teacher conversations.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, and I always, well I didn't always. I learned
at some point to really take a collaborative tone. This
is what I have noticed at home. What are you seeing?
This is what I've noticed works at home. Do you
think we could try it in the classroom? Right, So
(06:49):
not dictating what we want necessarily, but having that collaborative conversation.
This is the information that I'm expert on about my
kid that I can bring. Let's talk about it and
how it relates to your situation and your environment with
your expertise with this kid.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Oh, collaboration is the key. And you have to or rather,
your child is in that school for a while, right,
they might have that teacher for only a year, but
they're also in that building. So relationships, we don't want
to be burning bridges, right, Yeah, and it only benefits
you to go in with a collaborative approach. And so
(07:34):
for people who are more timid or have anxiety or
you know that can feel really nervous, right, and trying
to build those you know, it feels a little like
a big mountain to climb, like, oh, I have to
what am I going to do? But for some other people,
the challenge is to not come in with that.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Heat right right, to rein it back a little, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
To rein it back a little wit and you know
things are not going well, and your Mama bear instinct
says like, I'm going to go in there and tell
them what needs to happen.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
We got to kind of bring that back in with
that idea that collaboration really is the long term best
strategy because you don't want to burn bridges or strain
a relationship that you know you're going to have to
have for quite a while. So whatever you can do
to lead, I always say lead with curiosity. So the
(08:28):
way you phrased it was perfect that you can come
with all that really great information you have as the
expert in your kid. But then if we put on
that lens of leading with curiosity, we take that and say, okay,
this is what I'm seeing. What are you seeing? Right?
We turn it into a question instead of a demand
or a statement, and that opens doors that says, oh,
(08:52):
what am I seeing? Okay, I noticed this or I
noticed that instead of if you said, for instance, like
I'm expert in my kid and you need to do X,
Y or Z. Right, No one in any kind of relationship,
in a professional setting, in friendships, wants to be confronted
like that, right. It doesn't feel good in any setting,
(09:14):
And especially for teachers who have very difficult jobs. We
know this, and they are stretched very thin, and they're
under resourced, and so it can feel like an attack.
If you come in like really hot and aren't leading
with that collaboration, it can feel really threatening.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yeah, yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
I mean the same is true in the other direction too.
Then you know, parents want to feel like their teachers
are really working with them because they care so deeply
about their kids.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yeah. Yeah. And I came to realize pretty early on too,
that teachers are not educated on neurodivergence and learning just abilities.
You would think that a teacher would need to have
some knowledge about at least learning disabilities, but they don't.
You can get a degree and a certification, and you
can teach for decades and not understand ADHD autism Desgraviat dyslexia,
(10:16):
all those things. Executive functioning. You know, I've probably told
the story on this podcast before, but we had in
I believe tenth grade, we got a new special ed boss,
like she wasn't his connection, his teacher, but she was
in charge of them. And we were in a meeting
(10:36):
and I used the term executive function and she had
been a special ed teacher for twenty five years. She
did not know the term executive function. That was a
huge eye opener for me, huge and she was very
eager to learn. She actually asked me to bring my books.
She knew that I had written books and asked me
to bring my books for her to read. She was
(10:59):
very open and year to learn. But like when we
start these conversations with teachers, we have to realize that
your kid is not struggling in their classroom because they
don't care. Your kid is struggling in their classroom because
they may not understand how to help them. Yes, they
may not yet have that knowledge right. And then the
question becomes, how do we impart the knowledge without being overbearing,
(11:21):
without seeming like we're trying to tell them what to do.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
That's a big challenge, I think, and you're right. I
was personally also really surprised, you know, confused by the
fact that teachers don't learn this information, because in an
ideal world they would. It makes sense that the teachers
need to know about the breadth of neurodiversity and about
(11:45):
how different brains work and how different kids learn. You
would think that, but unfortunately, our teacher training programs are
not doing a good job. I mean, I think there
are lots of folks trying to push them in that direction,
and I know teachers who individually have done some of
that work to gain, you know, more knowledge and information,
(12:07):
but I think it's fair to say that we can
assume they might not know. And so, you know, I
was talking earlier about gathering that information. As a parent,
that's where this becomes even more critical, because we when
our kids are having trouble in school, we are often
turned to to try to help figure it out. And
(12:29):
this is where you know, I started my business because
my own kids struggled in school for so long, and
I was that bewildered parent. You know, people, teachers, administrators
would say to me, like, you know, something needs to change,
and I'd say, WHOA, I don't know what I'm not
the expert here, Yeah, how am I supposed to know?
(12:50):
And so the burden really gets placed a lot on parents,
and because there isn't this broad knowledge in education around
how to meet the needs of all of these kids.
And so if we can do as parents do more
of that work. And I know it sounds like a lot,
and sometimes it is. The more we can understand things
like executive functioning, things like how you know your child's
(13:13):
ADHD shows up for them at school, and the more
we can really advocate and do so, you know, you
mentioned that kind of paradox about wanting to suggest things
while also not trying to be in this. I hear
this a lot from parents being that parent, you know,
the pushy, the overbearing. It's a huge concern for parents, right,
(13:37):
And yet I often talk about like reframing that. Okay,
let's reframe this fear around being that parent. What if
what we're really doing is being proactive, right, so that
takes it from being a negative to you know, more
of a positive. What we're really trying to do. Our
goal is not to be adversarial. Our goal is to
(13:59):
help head off problems, to make the teacher's job easier.
Ultimately that's our goal. Yeah, right, because nobody wants to
be frustrated teachers or parents. Wouldn't we rather have done
a little work now and save ourselves a lot of
hasse later. So part of it is like us as
(14:20):
parents just like reframing that and thinking like, okay, are
there ways to do this that don't burn those bridges,
that don't create that adversarial relationship. So that means, you know, hey,
I've been, you know, doing some research about how my
son's ADHD is really impacting him at school. Can I
(14:41):
share some of that with you instead of you need
to read this article?
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Yeah you know these twenty articles. Well, yeah, we definitely
don't want to do that.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
No, So being open and offering resources in a collaborative way,
you know, you'll find teachers who say, oh, yeah, that
was really interesting. I didn't know that, and but I
you know, sometimes we don't always find that clarif you know, welcoming,
but we got to keep showing up for our kids.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Yeah, that permission for sharing just hit me like a
ton of bricks because never in my child's whole school
career did I ever ask before I shared information. But
how different that tone would have been and what teacher's
gonna say no, like they're gonna say yes. It may
take a few days before you know, you get a response,
(15:39):
you're able to share it. That would have been painful
for me, But had I done that, it would have
changed a lot of conversations and the just the dynamic,
the energy between us would have been different. Not that
I was going like you need to read this and
you need to implement this, but I would share things
(16:00):
without being asked or prompted when I thought they were relevant.
And it just struck me that just like asking that question,
can I share this with you this is what I'm learning,
would be such a different way to go about it,
that would be so much more positive.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Yeah, And I mean there are some who are more welcoming,
you know, who might say, for instance, like oh, I
want to know more about this, like give me, you know,
give me all the information. But if you have somebody
who's more hesitant or who you know, I've encountered teachers
who say, like, I know what I'm doing, I'm an
experienced teacher, and so they see you can tell that
they see it as a potential threat to their authority. Yeah,
(16:41):
that's where these kinds of you know, strategies leading with
a curiosity piece can really help soften that defensiveness and
open them up to saying like, okay, maybe I do
have some things to learn.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Yeah, yeah, and too it opens the door for collaboration,
Like it's setting the foundation for collaboration. It's just doing
so much that one little strategy does so much. It's
so helpful. Wow, where were you fifteen years ago?
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Well, I mean I wish I could say that I
always you know, I always did it myself too, But
you know, we live and learn, yes, and we try
better the next time.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Yes, yeah, yeah. It just sends the right message, it
sends a different message, or it can't be misconstrued. I think,
like I was very kind and wanted to be collaborative
with teachers, but that's like the next step toward. Like
I see that you're overwhelmed. I don't want to overwhelm
you with information. Can I share this with you? Right,
(17:46):
we're seeing that they have lots of kids in the classroom.
It isn't just ours. We're sort of quietly acknowledging that
they have a lot on their plate because a lot
of times when we come in advocating strongly. It's felt
that we don't get that they're overworked and underpaid and
have a lot of students and have a lot on
(18:06):
their plate, you know, And so it really sort of
addresses that too, which can really get in the way.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Yeah, and I encourage parents as well to find other
ways to be supportive of a teacher so that you
are also showing up in ways that remind them that
you care about their success. So, you know, when there's
a call for volunteers, can you be someone who raises
their hands? Are there ways that you help around the
(18:35):
school or participate in the PTA or whatever that might
look like, so you are seen as someone who cares
about the success of the school and of that classroom
and that teacher, and that you're not just in it
for your own child's success, because I do think that
makes a difference.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
It does for sure.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
These are all like two way relationships. And you know
the if I scratch your back, you scratch mind thing.
We have to be willing to give in a relationship too.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
You have to be willing to give to get right
mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And if you don't have time,
if you can't volunteer, if you work during the school
day or whatever it might be. Right, there's other ways
to make teachers feel seen and valued. Right, take them
a coffee, take them a five dollars Starbucks card.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
I or participate in you know, teacher appreciation We write
about the time we're recording this. And it doesn't have
to be a lot of money. I don't you know,
you don't have to spend money, but a card. Yeah,
even a handwritten card that says I value you, I
appreciate the work you're doing, and I really appreciate the
relationship that we're building together to support my child who
(19:50):
doesn't love to be acknowledged exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Yeah, Yeah, it can be such a small gesture. And
there are things that they could use help with, especially
in the younger grades and elementary that you can take
home with you, Like they can send things home with
your kid for you to cut out or do something
with and send back. So there really are a lot
of opportunities. I think we tend to get sort of
(20:15):
tunnel vision around what volunteering for school looks like. Yes,
and it can really be a lot of different things.
There were a few times over the years that I
took stuff home that I could do for the teacher
to help them out when I couldn't be there in
the classroom to do it right.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Or you know, you show up on the weekend when
there's a big playground cleanup or whatever the might look like.
But if you can find things that fit into your schedule,
I think it goes a long way to just showing
your commitment to the bigger school community and their success.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
So now we've set the tone right to have a
collaborative relationship. We're working on that, and we want to
share some information about how our kids' brain works and
what might be needed to help with that. If there's
a mismatch between that and education, which there often is
(21:14):
when we're talking about neurodiversion kids, can you give us
some phrases or conversation starters, or you know, how do
we talk about the brain in a way that's received
well by teachers and understood and also leads us to
that conversation about Okay, what can we change? What can
we do right?
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Well, we've kind of talked around some of them already.
You know that curiosity goes a long way again, so
you can say I'm learning that my child has some
challenges with executive functioning, And I'm really wondering how we
can think about that at school? What are you seeing?
(21:55):
You know, it's the leading with exploration, you know, think
about it like putting your detective hat on, and that's
the kind of questioning you want to do. And also
you know, acknowledging their expertise. I mean, the truth is,
as parents, we send our kids off to school and
(22:15):
we cross our fingers and hope for the best, right
because we are not there.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
You know, and as we're told to do right, right,
that's what we're especially as they get older, we're really
told to get involved.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
So we are not an expert. You know, some who
might be educators themselves, but most parents are not educators.
So we're gonna you know, try to mine their the
teachers expertise. Well, what have you found that's worked for
kids like this.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
In the past. Yeah, you know, it could be.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
That they have had strategies they've used before, but they
haven't really thought about using them in this particular setting,
or you know, things are busy and they hadn't thought
about Oh yeah that one time I tried this, you know.
So we're just trying to like be collaborative and open
up conversations and no two that, like one conversation is
(23:08):
probably not going to like solve the world. It is
not going to do everything you wanted to do. That's
just how it goes. So my other suggestion would be
to just like be the person who follows up yes,
and so if you have a meeting, for instance, send
a thank you note email that just says, like, I
appreciated meeting. These are the highlights of what we discussed.
(23:31):
Because everyone's busy, right, they're not going to remember. And
you know, if you can be the one who's kind
of tracking that, that's super useful and asking for you know,
can we have another meeting in two weeks and see
how this goes. So we're just still taking on some
of the responsibility for being that collaborative, like leading with
(23:53):
kindness and leading with good intention. That's another thing I
always talk to people about. We're assuming that they want
to do their best.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
For our kids.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Yeah, we're just going to like go into every conversation
with that is our you know, the lens through which
we're entering our conversations.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Even if it doesn't feel that way to you, you
still need to do it.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
We still need to do it. Yes, because it helps
soften those defenses, right, that the prickly stuff that we
all do when we feel a little like someone's coming
at us. So we're just assuming. And that means that
if you've asked a question and you haven't gotten a response,
just send another email, just say, like just double checking,
(24:38):
this might have gotten lost, yeah, without the like they
didn't you know response to me.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
I sent you this email at nine to twelve am
on April fourth, and it said this, I have no response.
What is wrong?
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Response? What is wrong? No? What is wrong is that
they have, you know, thirty kids in their classroom. And
another strategy I also so encourage is to try to
meet them the teachers where they are at. With regards
to communication, So this is another question. The thing we
can ask, how would you like me to best communicate
(25:12):
with you? What works best for you? Because I might
be on email all day, but they are not on
email all day. Some people, you know, like responding to
parents via email. Sometimes they're like, please don't send me
another email. I have two thousand unread in my mailbox.
I will never see it. Okay, So would you prefer
(25:33):
that I drop in after school? I pick up? Is
that easiest for you. So then you're like really trying
to make life easier for them in getting that communication flowing.
So whatever you can do to be the flexible one
always helps.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
M Yeah, you're addressing their needs so that they can
address their needs, right. Yeah, everybody should get what they need.
We talk about this with our kids all the time,
and it's no different in these relationships. Everybody has a
need and everybody deserves to have their need met. Yes,
and keeping an eye on that I think is hopeful.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
And it's true that their schedules are not flexible. It's
just the nature of their work. So if we can
just acknowledge that, like I know that you can't meet
during the day or in the evening, because it's also
true that they don't really they're not contracted to meet
in the evenings. So can you find a way to
make your schedules flexible enough to meet after school because
(26:34):
that's when it works best for them.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Yeah, for sure. And if you do have conversations, follow
it up in writing, as you were talking about earlier,
sending that thank you and follow up, like, we do
want to make sure that it's recorded in case we
need it at some point in the future, and so
any verbal conversations I had, I always made sure to
follow them up. I try to follow up meetings too.
(26:57):
I learned that sometimes like there's just mis communication. I
might walk away from a meeting with expectations that are
different than the teachers and educators walk away with. And
so when you follow it up, you get to figure
that out before everybody's on each other's throats, right, you
get to figure it out early when it matters.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
That's an opportunity to say, these are the notes I
have from the meeting. If you have any edits or
anything you'd like to add, let me know. Right, you're
opening it up to this is what I'm remembering and
what I wrote down. But if there, you know, if
there's something else, just let me know.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
It also just says this is not set in stone
that I am right, this is, you know, And they
might come back and say, oh, I don't remember us
talking about that piece, you know, or I had a
different understanding. Okay, then we're in conversation about it.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Yeah. And I would always end those emails too with
if there's anything that's on your to do list that
I can take care of, let me know.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Oh, I like it.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
That is, I did have flexible work. I was doing
different work then, but I still get to make my
own schedule and so I could make myself available to
be helpful. Like I wanted them to feel that. I
didn't expect them to do everything for my kid. We
were in it together to get him what he needs
and deserves. Yes, it wasn't that I was just like, well,
(28:21):
you need to do all this, you know, And sometimes
no matter how hard I tried, I would still get
met with that defense from educators. And I think it's
just from past experiences, like it doesn't mean that necessarily
you did something wrong as a parent in the way
that you were having conversations or anything like that. Their
prickles might already be up as a protection because people
(28:44):
are blaming them in the past, or you know, like
everybody has a backstory. Everybody has history, and we try
not to bring ours to the table, and we hope
that they don't either, but we do have to recognize
that sometimes you know, oh, that's what's happening. It isn't
necessarily about us or our kid or them not caring.
(29:05):
It's that, you know, hard things have happened, yes, and
they're still carrying some baggage.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
And they might have gotten burned in the past by
you know, parents who were overly demanding or aggressive or
you know. I'm sure, I'm sure they often have stories
they can tell. But let's try, if we can, to
not be one of these stories. Yeah, let's try to
be the one that they look back on and say,
(29:31):
you know, I think they helped me, you know, learn
a little bit that. I was just telling this story
the other day and I'll share it here that when
my kid was really really having a hard time in
elementary school, we had a teacher who was a lovely person.
She was so nice, but she kept coming to me saying,
something's got to change, like this is not working all
(29:52):
of the things right. And that's where I left feeling,
I have no idea what to do. So we went
through this whole process in the year and she said
to me me, I'm an experienced teacher. I've been teaching
for you know, a decade. I know what I'm doing,
And that was her way of shutting down the conversation, right,
And I don't to your point, I do not know
(30:12):
what was behind that, but it was.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
A pretty clear, like hardline in the sand. Yeah, don't
tell me what to do.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
But because I felt like she was a kind person.
I think she was a good teacher, but it was
just not the strategies that were not working well in
the moment, I started bringing her information and we you know,
I kept throughout the year like we were trying some things,
and I kept sort of like in a very friendly way,
trying to push things a little bit forward. And at
(30:41):
the very end of the year, she came to me
and she said, you know, remember when I said that
I knew what I was doing. I think I actually
learned some things this year, and it was well, it
was frustrating to have had.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
To go through all of that.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
It was also like, Okay, there is some like real
good right there that this is an experienced teacher who
is willing to say, you know, I learned some things
right right. That opens the door for the next parent.
So we're also, in addition to like building those strong
relationships for ourself, I think we're also showing teachers this
(31:16):
is what's possible. Yeah, right, So hopefully the next time
they're not feeling prickly and they have, you know, better
collaborative stories to tell about working with parents and learning
and being you know open.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
I'm such a visualizer. As we've been talking, like the
last half of this conversation, I'm imagining a detective partnership.
You know, usually police officers, detectives, they're they're in they
have a partner, right, And so the parents is one partner,
the teacher is one partner, and you're detectives. You're trying
to figure out what's happening. And then the extra layer
(31:54):
for us is what can we do about it? Right,
So it's like this collaborative to use Ross Green's old
term collaborative problem solving, like we can do that together
with the teachers. And if we just go in with
that mindset that we're doing this work together, I think
it helps on both sides.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Oh absolutely. And it takes pressure off, right to feel like,
oh I am not alone. Someone else is invested in
my kid's success. Yeah yeah, I mean that feels huge
As a parent, that's what we want, and teachers want
to know that parents are invested in helping them be successful.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Yeah, yeah, that you're supporting them too. That support can
go both ways.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
So for parents listening, what would you say, is there
one first, small next step to take action on what
they've learned from this conversation.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Their first action is to ask a question and exploratory
question about what are they noticing? Was there an assignment
that was particularly difficult? What can you let's ask a
question about that. You know, I noticed these math equations
were kind of challenging when we were doing the homework.
You know, how can we support him in figuring out
(33:15):
these concepts? You know, whatever it is, pick one investigative
question and send an email, or ask after school, or
find a way to open that door just a little.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Yeah. I love that. It really does go a long way.
It is really powerful just to set that relationship in
that tone of that relationship and the energy.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
And I will say, this's never too late, right, And
the end of the school year is actually a great
time to be doing that investigative work because it will
benefit your child next year.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
So it's not as if the end of the school
year means, oh, there's nothing to pay attention to because
it's all going to be over. No, we're actually like,
we're gathering that information so we can move it forward
with us.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
I've been thinking a lot about back to school prep
because I'm going to do the back to school prep
week again this summer in twenty twenty five, and as
you were talking, it dawned on me that we need
to do an end of school year debrief, like what
has the teacher noticed, what times of the day are harder,
what activities are harder? Like is there a kid who
(34:23):
shouldn't be in class? They shouldn't be in class together
the next time, which happened to us, and fortunately I
was able to work with the administrators who were open
to saying, okay, we'll make sure that they're not in
a classroom together. You know, there's so much information there
that we can get. And of course teachers don't have
time to do thirty five debriefs, and that's just elementary.
(34:44):
If they have six classes with thirty some kids, right,
it's a lot. But you know, if you can just
be strategic and asking a few questions, then you'll have
some data going all the way back to the beginning
of what you were guiding us through to then use
to maybe set them up for a little bit more
success as you move into the next school year. Maybe
(35:06):
there's some data from this year that would be really
smart to share with the new teacher. At the start
of next year, right one.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Hundred and fifty percent. This is exactly what I like
to talk about this time of year, because you know
that teacher has had now nine months to really get
to know your kid, and rather than just letting that
information a data like go poof into the ether, what
can we do to document it? You know, what have
we noticed? Can you write it down? There are all
(35:34):
sorts of ways you can do that. I also developed
a tool called the teacher Fit Template, which is basically
like using that information you gather and then writing a
letter not to request a specific teacher, because most schools
will not let you pick favorites about teacher placement, nor
should they really, but to talk about what your specific
kids needs are and how what you know about classroom
(35:59):
setting where they thrive, and then letting them use that
information to inform their decisions about class placement.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
And you know, administrators really do want their job to
be easier and more successful. They want to see their
teachers succeed. They want to see the kids succeed because
it does make it easier for them if you know
something about a teacher fit or something about the class placement.
They really do want to hear it. They don't want
(36:30):
you to come in and say, put my kid in
this class, But if you have valuable information, it's going
to save them time and stress in the long term,
right if it can make a change in that placement.
So we were fortunate to have several administrators over the
years who were really collaborative with me on that. Okay,
this is you know, the three teachers that we have
(36:50):
to choose from. These are sort of the ways that
each one focuses their classroom or the ways that they
instruct and what do you see about the potential matches here,
And then they're sharing what they see about those potential
matches as well, because we did have some really bad fits.
There was even a school year where my kid was
(37:11):
moved to a different teacher at the beginning of the
fourth quarter. Oh jeez, that's hard because it was so
bad and it was actually it was magical. The new
teacher was just amazing. It didn't have the social impact
that I thought I was going to have. And I
even run into other parents who had kids in that
original teacher's classroom with us in the last few years.
(37:34):
You know, our kids are young adults now and they
will even say, oh, gosh, did you know she's still teaching.
Did you feel like it wasn't a good fit for anyone? Necessarily,
it's not even just the teacher's approach, although sometimes that
makes a big difference. It's also like the class dynamics.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Yeah, and if you know that, you know your child
gets really dysregulated when there's a lot of chaos, and
that there are certain groups of you know, or high
need students who they might not be a good fit with.
That's all really valuable. Yeah, right, And to your point
about switching classes, I mean, sometimes that actually is a
(38:10):
decent option. I had just a couple of years ago,
my son was doing that well in his math class
because it was a high need group. He got really
just regulated and then he caused you know, then he
starts contributing to the problem. And we were able to
talk with the school counselor and talk with the teacher
and come up with a plan to move him and
(38:31):
just into another section, and then needed great. You know.
So sometimes it's like these little tweaks can make everybody's
life easier.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Yeah. We just need to see the signals. I need
to see the behavior as signals and then ask the
question what do they need? Why is this not working right?
And then do something about it. Yeah, Scotty, I always
learned so much from you. Oh will you tell everybody
listening where they can find you online so that they
can connect and learn more and maybe work with you.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Oh well, thank you so much for that. You can
find me online every frameparenting dot com, and there you'll
find a blog with lots of good information. I just
wrote a blog post the other day about after school
restraint collapse, so that one is one I have some
some strong experience with. But you'll find all sorts of
(39:19):
information on my blog. I'm also starting my own podcast soon.
Oh yeah, it's going to be called Unlocking School Success,
so be looking for that on my It'll all be
on my website.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Awesome, and I will link that up in the show
notes for everyone at Parenting ADHD and Autism dot Com
slash three one four for episode three hundred and fourteen.
I'll see everybody next time. Take good care. Thanks for
joining me on the Beautifully Complex podcast. If you enjoyed
this episode, please subscribe and share, and don't forget to
(39:51):
check out my online courses and parent coaching at parenting
ADHD and autism dot com and at the Behavior revolution
dot com
When you know things are not going well and your
mama bear instinct says like I'm going to go in
there and tell them what needs to happen. We got
to kind of bring that back in with that idea
that collaboration really is the long term best strategy, because
you don't want to burn bridges or strain a relationship
(00:24):
that you know you're going to have to have for
quite a while.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welcome to the Beautifully Complex podcast, where I share insights
and strategies on parenting neurodivergent kids straight from the trenches.
I'm your host, Penny Williams. I'm a parenting coach, author
and mindset mama, honored to guide you on the journey
of raising your atypical kid. Let's get started. Hey, everybody,
(00:53):
welcome back to Beautifully Complex. I have my friends Gotti
Winetroub here with me, who is an advocate for education
and differently wired kids, and we're going to talk about
conversations with teachers, which I think is so very important
and for any parents with anxiety, this is really an
(01:16):
anxiety provoking thing to have these their hard conversations to say,
you know things aren't going well, what can we do?
How do we fix this, And in this particular conversation,
we're going to focus a lot on talking to your
kids teachers about their brain, how their unique brain is working,
(01:39):
and how that understanding, hopefully is then going to translate
into the understanding of the anxiety accommodations that kids need
to succeed in the classroom. Scotty, will you start though,
by letting everybody know who you are and what you do.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Hi, Penny, thanks so much for having me. It's always
a pleasure. I am. As you said of Scotty Wanting.
I'm the founder of Reframe Parenting and I help parents
find roadmaps to school success and I do that through
coaching and education. But really my focus is on helping
(02:15):
parents get the supports that there are students need and
deserve to help all students shine at school, no matter what.
I believe fundamentally that all kids deserve to do well
at school, whatever doing well looks like, and it can be,
you know, it can be a lot of different things,
but that's sort of the foundation.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yeah, And it's so difficult, and the journey looks different
for every student and every family, and it looks different
in every classroom. Honestly, like every year with a new teacher.
We were starting from scratch. We had to do the educating,
We had to get to know you, they had to
connect if they were going to connect, and all these things,
right that go into it. But I think at the
foundation of it is this information about how our kids'
(02:59):
brains work differently and how that means that they need
something different in the classroom. Right. It's not just I'm
going to tell you that my kids' brain works differently,
and here's how we also have to help them translate
that right into what the kid or the student needs.
Where do we start with this conversation or is there
even like groundwork that we can set before we have
(03:22):
this conversation.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Well, yes, and yes, so I think the more we
know as parents about how our kids' unique brain works,
it's going to benefit us both at home and when
we have those conversations with schools.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
So part of what I work with parents about is
really doing that investigative work uncovering. And sometimes people come
and they already they already have a diagnosis, they know
their child has ADHD, for instance, but sometimes they just
know that things are not going well at school and
maybe they're not going well at home, but sometimes it's
just happening at school, and so it can be hard
to tease out what actually is happening. And so I
(03:59):
work with families to do that investigative work, to ask questions,
to you know, make observations, and then use that data
that you collect that it's really useful information when we
stop and take sort of a bigger, you know, thousand
foot view, like what are we seeing instead of just
focusing on, you know, the challenge itself. But let's back
(04:19):
up and look at, you know, what what's coming before that?
What are the triggers. Where are there particular topics that
they seem in school that they seem to have the
most challenge with. You know, they like science, but reading
for some reason, And okay, let's dig into that. What
about their reading? So that work. If you can do
(04:41):
that work, then when you come to the teacher, you
are armed with so much useful information. You're not just
coming to the teacher saying, oh my goodness, my kid
is struggling and I don't know what to do. So
it puts you in a position of confidence and power
to have the information that you need.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, and I would think about like times a day too, right, Absolutely,
does your kids struggle more in the morning or the
afternoon or with a particular like quiet time activity or
is it more when things are free or more when
they're structured, like there's so many variables, right.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Or are they sitting next to a certain person that
is you know, really distracting for them? Those are all
really good pieces of information to have so that when
you have the conversations with the teacher, you can say,
you know, when my son sits next to the student,
it seems that they're dynamic. And this is not a judgment,
of course, but their dynamic is that they distract each other.
(05:38):
Then that opens up conversation about okay, well what can
we try instead? So coming to those conversations with as
much information as you can is like my number one
starting point. And if you have that, if you happen
to have a diagnosis, or you've done things like a
you know, some sort of screening or psychological evaluation, those
(06:00):
are useful data points too, and sometimes they will bring
with them those reports will have, you know, suggestions. But
even if you don't have that, knowing what you know
as a parent, because you know your kid best, right,
you might not be in the school setting. But you
know them, you know their personality, you know their quirks,
you know their strengths, and being prepared to communicate that
(06:22):
information is really the best way I think to go
into teacher conversations.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, and I always, well I didn't always. I learned
at some point to really take a collaborative tone. This
is what I have noticed at home. What are you seeing?
This is what I've noticed works at home. Do you
think we could try it in the classroom? Right, So
(06:49):
not dictating what we want necessarily, but having that collaborative conversation.
This is the information that I'm expert on about my
kid that I can bring. Let's talk about it and
how it relates to your situation and your environment with
your expertise with this kid.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Oh, collaboration is the key. And you have to or rather,
your child is in that school for a while, right,
they might have that teacher for only a year, but
they're also in that building. So relationships, we don't want
to be burning bridges, right, Yeah, and it only benefits
you to go in with a collaborative approach. And so
(07:34):
for people who are more timid or have anxiety or
you know that can feel really nervous, right, and trying
to build those you know, it feels a little like
a big mountain to climb, like, oh, I have to
what am I going to do? But for some other people,
the challenge is to not come in with that.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Heat right right, to rein it back a little, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
To rein it back a little wit and you know
things are not going well, and your Mama bear instinct
says like, I'm going to go in there and tell
them what needs to happen.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
We got to kind of bring that back in with
that idea that collaboration really is the long term best
strategy because you don't want to burn bridges or strain
a relationship that you know you're going to have to
have for quite a while. So whatever you can do
to lead, I always say lead with curiosity. So the
(08:28):
way you phrased it was perfect that you can come
with all that really great information you have as the
expert in your kid. But then if we put on
that lens of leading with curiosity, we take that and say, okay,
this is what I'm seeing. What are you seeing? Right?
We turn it into a question instead of a demand
or a statement, and that opens doors that says, oh,
(08:52):
what am I seeing? Okay, I noticed this or I
noticed that instead of if you said, for instance, like
I'm expert in my kid and you need to do X,
Y or Z. Right, No one in any kind of relationship,
in a professional setting, in friendships, wants to be confronted
like that, right. It doesn't feel good in any setting,
(09:14):
And especially for teachers who have very difficult jobs. We
know this, and they are stretched very thin, and they're
under resourced, and so it can feel like an attack.
If you come in like really hot and aren't leading
with that collaboration, it can feel really threatening.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yeah, yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
I mean the same is true in the other direction too.
Then you know, parents want to feel like their teachers
are really working with them because they care so deeply
about their kids.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yeah. Yeah. And I came to realize pretty early on too,
that teachers are not educated on neurodivergence and learning just abilities.
You would think that a teacher would need to have
some knowledge about at least learning disabilities, but they don't.
You can get a degree and a certification, and you
can teach for decades and not understand ADHD autism Desgraviat dyslexia,
(10:16):
all those things. Executive functioning. You know, I've probably told
the story on this podcast before, but we had in
I believe tenth grade, we got a new special ed boss,
like she wasn't his connection, his teacher, but she was
in charge of them. And we were in a meeting
(10:36):
and I used the term executive function and she had
been a special ed teacher for twenty five years. She
did not know the term executive function. That was a
huge eye opener for me, huge and she was very
eager to learn. She actually asked me to bring my books.
She knew that I had written books and asked me
to bring my books for her to read. She was
(10:59):
very open and year to learn. But like when we
start these conversations with teachers, we have to realize that
your kid is not struggling in their classroom because they
don't care. Your kid is struggling in their classroom because
they may not understand how to help them. Yes, they
may not yet have that knowledge right. And then the
question becomes, how do we impart the knowledge without being overbearing,
(11:21):
without seeming like we're trying to tell them what to do.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
That's a big challenge, I think, and you're right. I
was personally also really surprised, you know, confused by the
fact that teachers don't learn this information, because in an
ideal world they would. It makes sense that the teachers
need to know about the breadth of neurodiversity and about
(11:45):
how different brains work and how different kids learn. You
would think that, but unfortunately, our teacher training programs are
not doing a good job. I mean, I think there
are lots of folks trying to push them in that direction,
and I know teachers who individually have done some of
that work to gain, you know, more knowledge and information,
(12:07):
but I think it's fair to say that we can
assume they might not know. And so, you know, I
was talking earlier about gathering that information. As a parent,
that's where this becomes even more critical, because we when
our kids are having trouble in school, we are often
turned to to try to help figure it out. And
(12:29):
this is where you know, I started my business because
my own kids struggled in school for so long, and
I was that bewildered parent. You know, people, teachers, administrators
would say to me, like, you know, something needs to change,
and I'd say, WHOA, I don't know what I'm not
the expert here, Yeah, how am I supposed to know?
(12:50):
And so the burden really gets placed a lot on parents,
and because there isn't this broad knowledge in education around
how to meet the needs of all of these kids.
And so if we can do as parents do more
of that work. And I know it sounds like a lot,
and sometimes it is. The more we can understand things
like executive functioning, things like how you know your child's
(13:13):
ADHD shows up for them at school, and the more
we can really advocate and do so, you know, you
mentioned that kind of paradox about wanting to suggest things
while also not trying to be in this. I hear
this a lot from parents being that parent, you know,
the pushy, the overbearing. It's a huge concern for parents, right,
(13:37):
And yet I often talk about like reframing that. Okay,
let's reframe this fear around being that parent. What if
what we're really doing is being proactive, right, so that
takes it from being a negative to you know, more
of a positive. What we're really trying to do. Our
goal is not to be adversarial. Our goal is to
(13:59):
help head off problems, to make the teacher's job easier.
Ultimately that's our goal. Yeah, right, because nobody wants to
be frustrated teachers or parents. Wouldn't we rather have done
a little work now and save ourselves a lot of
hasse later. So part of it is like us as
(14:20):
parents just like reframing that and thinking like, okay, are
there ways to do this that don't burn those bridges,
that don't create that adversarial relationship. So that means, you know, hey,
I've been, you know, doing some research about how my
son's ADHD is really impacting him at school. Can I
(14:41):
share some of that with you instead of you need
to read this article?
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Yeah you know these twenty articles. Well, yeah, we definitely
don't want to do that.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
No, So being open and offering resources in a collaborative way,
you know, you'll find teachers who say, oh, yeah, that
was really interesting. I didn't know that, and but I
you know, sometimes we don't always find that clarif you know, welcoming,
but we got to keep showing up for our kids.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Yeah, that permission for sharing just hit me like a
ton of bricks because never in my child's whole school
career did I ever ask before I shared information. But
how different that tone would have been and what teacher's
gonna say no, like they're gonna say yes. It may
take a few days before you know, you get a response,
(15:39):
you're able to share it. That would have been painful
for me, But had I done that, it would have
changed a lot of conversations and the just the dynamic,
the energy between us would have been different. Not that
I was going like you need to read this and
you need to implement this, but I would share things
(16:00):
without being asked or prompted when I thought they were relevant.
And it just struck me that just like asking that question,
can I share this with you this is what I'm learning,
would be such a different way to go about it,
that would be so much more positive.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Yeah, And I mean there are some who are more welcoming,
you know, who might say, for instance, like oh, I
want to know more about this, like give me, you know,
give me all the information. But if you have somebody
who's more hesitant or who you know, I've encountered teachers
who say, like, I know what I'm doing, I'm an
experienced teacher, and so they see you can tell that
they see it as a potential threat to their authority. Yeah,
(16:41):
that's where these kinds of you know, strategies leading with
a curiosity piece can really help soften that defensiveness and
open them up to saying like, okay, maybe I do
have some things to learn.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Yeah, yeah, and too it opens the door for collaboration,
Like it's setting the foundation for collaboration. It's just doing
so much that one little strategy does so much. It's
so helpful. Wow, where were you fifteen years ago?
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Well, I mean I wish I could say that I
always you know, I always did it myself too, But
you know, we live and learn, yes, and we try
better the next time.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Yes, yeah, yeah. It just sends the right message, it
sends a different message, or it can't be misconstrued. I think,
like I was very kind and wanted to be collaborative
with teachers, but that's like the next step toward. Like
I see that you're overwhelmed. I don't want to overwhelm
you with information. Can I share this with you? Right,
(17:46):
we're seeing that they have lots of kids in the classroom.
It isn't just ours. We're sort of quietly acknowledging that
they have a lot on their plate because a lot
of times when we come in advocating strongly. It's felt
that we don't get that they're overworked and underpaid and
have a lot of students and have a lot on
(18:06):
their plate, you know, And so it really sort of
addresses that too, which can really get in the way.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Yeah, and I encourage parents as well to find other
ways to be supportive of a teacher so that you
are also showing up in ways that remind them that
you care about their success. So, you know, when there's
a call for volunteers, can you be someone who raises
their hands? Are there ways that you help around the
(18:35):
school or participate in the PTA or whatever that might
look like, so you are seen as someone who cares
about the success of the school and of that classroom
and that teacher, and that you're not just in it
for your own child's success, because I do think that
makes a difference.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
It does for sure.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
These are all like two way relationships. And you know
the if I scratch your back, you scratch mind thing.
We have to be willing to give in a relationship too.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
You have to be willing to give to get right
mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And if you don't have time,
if you can't volunteer, if you work during the school
day or whatever it might be. Right, there's other ways
to make teachers feel seen and valued. Right, take them
a coffee, take them a five dollars Starbucks card.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
I or participate in you know, teacher appreciation We write
about the time we're recording this. And it doesn't have
to be a lot of money. I don't you know,
you don't have to spend money, but a card. Yeah,
even a handwritten card that says I value you, I
appreciate the work you're doing, and I really appreciate the
relationship that we're building together to support my child who
(19:50):
doesn't love to be acknowledged exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Yeah, Yeah, it can be such a small gesture. And
there are things that they could use help with, especially
in the younger grades and elementary that you can take
home with you, Like they can send things home with
your kid for you to cut out or do something
with and send back. So there really are a lot
of opportunities. I think we tend to get sort of
(20:15):
tunnel vision around what volunteering for school looks like. Yes,
and it can really be a lot of different things.
There were a few times over the years that I
took stuff home that I could do for the teacher
to help them out when I couldn't be there in
the classroom to do it right.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Or you know, you show up on the weekend when
there's a big playground cleanup or whatever the might look like.
But if you can find things that fit into your schedule,
I think it goes a long way to just showing
your commitment to the bigger school community and their success.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
So now we've set the tone right to have a
collaborative relationship. We're working on that, and we want to
share some information about how our kids' brain works and
what might be needed to help with that. If there's
a mismatch between that and education, which there often is
(21:14):
when we're talking about neurodiversion kids, can you give us
some phrases or conversation starters, or you know, how do
we talk about the brain in a way that's received
well by teachers and understood and also leads us to
that conversation about Okay, what can we change? What can
we do right?
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Well, we've kind of talked around some of them already.
You know that curiosity goes a long way again, so
you can say I'm learning that my child has some
challenges with executive functioning, And I'm really wondering how we
can think about that at school? What are you seeing?
(21:55):
You know, it's the leading with exploration, you know, think
about it like putting your detective hat on, and that's
the kind of questioning you want to do. And also
you know, acknowledging their expertise. I mean, the truth is,
as parents, we send our kids off to school and
(22:15):
we cross our fingers and hope for the best, right
because we are not there.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
You know, and as we're told to do right, right,
that's what we're especially as they get older, we're really
told to get involved.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
So we are not an expert. You know, some who
might be educators themselves, but most parents are not educators.
So we're gonna you know, try to mine their the
teachers expertise. Well, what have you found that's worked for
kids like this.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
In the past. Yeah, you know, it could be.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
That they have had strategies they've used before, but they
haven't really thought about using them in this particular setting,
or you know, things are busy and they hadn't thought
about Oh yeah that one time I tried this, you know.
So we're just trying to like be collaborative and open
up conversations and no two that, like one conversation is
(23:08):
probably not going to like solve the world. It is
not going to do everything you wanted to do. That's
just how it goes. So my other suggestion would be
to just like be the person who follows up yes,
and so if you have a meeting, for instance, send
a thank you note email that just says, like, I
appreciated meeting. These are the highlights of what we discussed.
(23:31):
Because everyone's busy, right, they're not going to remember. And
you know, if you can be the one who's kind
of tracking that, that's super useful and asking for you know,
can we have another meeting in two weeks and see
how this goes. So we're just still taking on some
of the responsibility for being that collaborative, like leading with
(23:53):
kindness and leading with good intention. That's another thing I
always talk to people about. We're assuming that they want
to do their best.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
For our kids.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Yeah, we're just going to like go into every conversation
with that is our you know, the lens through which
we're entering our conversations.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Even if it doesn't feel that way to you, you
still need to do it.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
We still need to do it. Yes, because it helps
soften those defenses, right, that the prickly stuff that we
all do when we feel a little like someone's coming
at us. So we're just assuming. And that means that
if you've asked a question and you haven't gotten a response,
just send another email, just say, like just double checking,
(24:38):
this might have gotten lost, yeah, without the like they
didn't you know response to me.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
I sent you this email at nine to twelve am
on April fourth, and it said this, I have no response.
What is wrong?
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Response? What is wrong? No? What is wrong is that
they have, you know, thirty kids in their classroom. And
another strategy I also so encourage is to try to
meet them the teachers where they are at. With regards
to communication, So this is another question. The thing we
can ask, how would you like me to best communicate
(25:12):
with you? What works best for you? Because I might
be on email all day, but they are not on
email all day. Some people, you know, like responding to
parents via email. Sometimes they're like, please don't send me
another email. I have two thousand unread in my mailbox.
I will never see it. Okay, So would you prefer
(25:33):
that I drop in after school? I pick up? Is
that easiest for you. So then you're like really trying
to make life easier for them in getting that communication flowing.
So whatever you can do to be the flexible one
always helps.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
M Yeah, you're addressing their needs so that they can
address their needs, right. Yeah, everybody should get what they need.
We talk about this with our kids all the time,
and it's no different in these relationships. Everybody has a
need and everybody deserves to have their need met. Yes,
and keeping an eye on that I think is hopeful.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
And it's true that their schedules are not flexible. It's
just the nature of their work. So if we can
just acknowledge that, like I know that you can't meet
during the day or in the evening, because it's also
true that they don't really they're not contracted to meet
in the evenings. So can you find a way to
make your schedules flexible enough to meet after school because
(26:34):
that's when it works best for them.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Yeah, for sure. And if you do have conversations, follow
it up in writing, as you were talking about earlier,
sending that thank you and follow up, like, we do
want to make sure that it's recorded in case we
need it at some point in the future, and so
any verbal conversations I had, I always made sure to
follow them up. I try to follow up meetings too.
(26:57):
I learned that sometimes like there's just mis communication. I
might walk away from a meeting with expectations that are
different than the teachers and educators walk away with. And
so when you follow it up, you get to figure
that out before everybody's on each other's throats, right, you
get to figure it out early when it matters.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
That's an opportunity to say, these are the notes I
have from the meeting. If you have any edits or
anything you'd like to add, let me know. Right, you're
opening it up to this is what I'm remembering and
what I wrote down. But if there, you know, if
there's something else, just let me know.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
It also just says this is not set in stone
that I am right, this is, you know, And they
might come back and say, oh, I don't remember us
talking about that piece, you know, or I had a
different understanding. Okay, then we're in conversation about it.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Yeah. And I would always end those emails too with
if there's anything that's on your to do list that
I can take care of, let me know.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Oh, I like it.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
That is, I did have flexible work. I was doing
different work then, but I still get to make my
own schedule and so I could make myself available to
be helpful. Like I wanted them to feel that. I
didn't expect them to do everything for my kid. We
were in it together to get him what he needs
and deserves. Yes, it wasn't that I was just like, well,
(28:21):
you need to do all this, you know, And sometimes
no matter how hard I tried, I would still get
met with that defense from educators. And I think it's
just from past experiences, like it doesn't mean that necessarily
you did something wrong as a parent in the way
that you were having conversations or anything like that. Their
prickles might already be up as a protection because people
(28:44):
are blaming them in the past, or you know, like
everybody has a backstory. Everybody has history, and we try
not to bring ours to the table, and we hope
that they don't either, but we do have to recognize
that sometimes you know, oh, that's what's happening. It isn't
necessarily about us or our kid or them not caring.
(29:05):
It's that, you know, hard things have happened, yes, and
they're still carrying some baggage.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
And they might have gotten burned in the past by
you know, parents who were overly demanding or aggressive or
you know. I'm sure, I'm sure they often have stories
they can tell. But let's try, if we can, to
not be one of these stories. Yeah, let's try to
be the one that they look back on and say,
(29:31):
you know, I think they helped me, you know, learn
a little bit that. I was just telling this story
the other day and I'll share it here that when
my kid was really really having a hard time in
elementary school, we had a teacher who was a lovely person.
She was so nice, but she kept coming to me saying,
something's got to change, like this is not working all
(29:52):
of the things right. And that's where I left feeling,
I have no idea what to do. So we went
through this whole process in the year and she said
to me me, I'm an experienced teacher. I've been teaching
for you know, a decade. I know what I'm doing,
And that was her way of shutting down the conversation, right,
And I don't to your point, I do not know
(30:12):
what was behind that, but it was.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
A pretty clear, like hardline in the sand. Yeah, don't
tell me what to do.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
But because I felt like she was a kind person.
I think she was a good teacher, but it was
just not the strategies that were not working well in
the moment, I started bringing her information and we you know,
I kept throughout the year like we were trying some things,
and I kept sort of like in a very friendly way,
trying to push things a little bit forward. And at
(30:41):
the very end of the year, she came to me
and she said, you know, remember when I said that
I knew what I was doing. I think I actually
learned some things this year, and it was well, it
was frustrating to have had.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
To go through all of that.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
It was also like, Okay, there is some like real
good right there that this is an experienced teacher who
is willing to say, you know, I learned some things
right right. That opens the door for the next parent.
So we're also, in addition to like building those strong
relationships for ourself, I think we're also showing teachers this
(31:16):
is what's possible. Yeah, right, So hopefully the next time
they're not feeling prickly and they have, you know, better
collaborative stories to tell about working with parents and learning
and being you know open.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
I'm such a visualizer. As we've been talking, like the
last half of this conversation, I'm imagining a detective partnership.
You know, usually police officers, detectives, they're they're in they
have a partner, right, And so the parents is one partner,
the teacher is one partner, and you're detectives. You're trying
to figure out what's happening. And then the extra layer
(31:54):
for us is what can we do about it? Right,
So it's like this collaborative to use Ross Green's old
term collaborative problem solving, like we can do that together
with the teachers. And if we just go in with
that mindset that we're doing this work together, I think
it helps on both sides.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Oh absolutely. And it takes pressure off, right to feel like,
oh I am not alone. Someone else is invested in
my kid's success. Yeah yeah, I mean that feels huge
As a parent, that's what we want, and teachers want
to know that parents are invested in helping them be successful.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Yeah, yeah, that you're supporting them too. That support can
go both ways.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
So for parents listening, what would you say, is there
one first, small next step to take action on what
they've learned from this conversation.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Their first action is to ask a question and exploratory
question about what are they noticing? Was there an assignment
that was particularly difficult? What can you let's ask a
question about that. You know, I noticed these math equations
were kind of challenging when we were doing the homework.
You know, how can we support him in figuring out
(33:15):
these concepts? You know, whatever it is, pick one investigative
question and send an email, or ask after school, or
find a way to open that door just a little.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Yeah. I love that. It really does go a long way.
It is really powerful just to set that relationship in
that tone of that relationship and the energy.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
And I will say, this's never too late, right, And
the end of the school year is actually a great
time to be doing that investigative work because it will
benefit your child next year.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
So it's not as if the end of the school
year means, oh, there's nothing to pay attention to because
it's all going to be over. No, we're actually like,
we're gathering that information so we can move it forward
with us.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
I've been thinking a lot about back to school prep
because I'm going to do the back to school prep
week again this summer in twenty twenty five, and as
you were talking, it dawned on me that we need
to do an end of school year debrief, like what
has the teacher noticed, what times of the day are harder,
what activities are harder? Like is there a kid who
(34:23):
shouldn't be in class? They shouldn't be in class together
the next time, which happened to us, and fortunately I
was able to work with the administrators who were open
to saying, okay, we'll make sure that they're not in
a classroom together. You know, there's so much information there
that we can get. And of course teachers don't have
time to do thirty five debriefs, and that's just elementary.
(34:44):
If they have six classes with thirty some kids, right,
it's a lot. But you know, if you can just
be strategic and asking a few questions, then you'll have
some data going all the way back to the beginning
of what you were guiding us through to then use
to maybe set them up for a little bit more
success as you move into the next school year. Maybe
(35:06):
there's some data from this year that would be really
smart to share with the new teacher. At the start
of next year, right one.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Hundred and fifty percent. This is exactly what I like
to talk about this time of year, because you know
that teacher has had now nine months to really get
to know your kid, and rather than just letting that
information a data like go poof into the ether, what
can we do to document it? You know, what have
we noticed? Can you write it down? There are all
(35:34):
sorts of ways you can do that. I also developed
a tool called the teacher Fit Template, which is basically
like using that information you gather and then writing a
letter not to request a specific teacher, because most schools
will not let you pick favorites about teacher placement, nor
should they really, but to talk about what your specific
kids needs are and how what you know about classroom
(35:59):
setting where they thrive, and then letting them use that
information to inform their decisions about class placement.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
And you know, administrators really do want their job to
be easier and more successful. They want to see their
teachers succeed. They want to see the kids succeed because
it does make it easier for them if you know
something about a teacher fit or something about the class placement.
They really do want to hear it. They don't want
(36:30):
you to come in and say, put my kid in
this class, But if you have valuable information, it's going
to save them time and stress in the long term,
right if it can make a change in that placement.
So we were fortunate to have several administrators over the
years who were really collaborative with me on that. Okay,
this is you know, the three teachers that we have
(36:50):
to choose from. These are sort of the ways that
each one focuses their classroom or the ways that they
instruct and what do you see about the potential matches here,
And then they're sharing what they see about those potential
matches as well, because we did have some really bad fits.
There was even a school year where my kid was
(37:11):
moved to a different teacher at the beginning of the
fourth quarter. Oh jeez, that's hard because it was so
bad and it was actually it was magical. The new
teacher was just amazing. It didn't have the social impact
that I thought I was going to have. And I
even run into other parents who had kids in that
original teacher's classroom with us in the last few years.
(37:34):
You know, our kids are young adults now and they
will even say, oh, gosh, did you know she's still teaching.
Did you feel like it wasn't a good fit for anyone? Necessarily,
it's not even just the teacher's approach, although sometimes that
makes a big difference. It's also like the class dynamics.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Yeah, and if you know that, you know your child
gets really dysregulated when there's a lot of chaos, and
that there are certain groups of you know, or high
need students who they might not be a good fit with.
That's all really valuable. Yeah, right, And to your point
about switching classes, I mean, sometimes that actually is a
(38:10):
decent option. I had just a couple of years ago,
my son was doing that well in his math class
because it was a high need group. He got really
just regulated and then he caused you know, then he
starts contributing to the problem. And we were able to
talk with the school counselor and talk with the teacher
and come up with a plan to move him and
(38:31):
just into another section, and then needed great. You know.
So sometimes it's like these little tweaks can make everybody's
life easier.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Yeah. We just need to see the signals. I need
to see the behavior as signals and then ask the
question what do they need? Why is this not working right?
And then do something about it. Yeah, Scotty, I always
learned so much from you. Oh will you tell everybody
listening where they can find you online so that they
can connect and learn more and maybe work with you.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Oh well, thank you so much for that. You can
find me online every frameparenting dot com, and there you'll
find a blog with lots of good information. I just
wrote a blog post the other day about after school
restraint collapse, so that one is one I have some
some strong experience with. But you'll find all sorts of
(39:19):
information on my blog. I'm also starting my own podcast soon.
Oh yeah, it's going to be called Unlocking School Success,
so be looking for that on my It'll all be
on my website.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Awesome, and I will link that up in the show
notes for everyone at Parenting ADHD and Autism dot Com
slash three one four for episode three hundred and fourteen.
I'll see everybody next time. Take good care. Thanks for
joining me on the Beautifully Complex podcast. If you enjoyed
this episode, please subscribe and share, and don't forget to
(39:51):
check out my online courses and parent coaching at parenting
ADHD and autism dot com and at the Behavior revolution
dot com
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