June 4, 2025 • 25 mins
What if a pom pom, a paper tube, and ten minutes a day could transform your child’s learning?
In this joy-filled episode, I sit down with Kelsey Cook, mom of four, former teacher, and founder of Learning with Kelsey, to unpack the science and soul behind play-based learning. Together, we explore how creativity and play aren't just fun — they're vital tools for connection, emotional regulation, and skill development in neurodivergent kids.
From sensory-friendly adaptations to parent-child rituals that build predictability, you'll walk away with practical strategies to foster emotional intelligence, meet your child’s sensory needs, and bring more joy to learning (without a single worksheet in sight).
If you’ve ever struggled to get your child engaged in learning or wondered how to balance structure with flexibility, this episode will leave you inspired and equipped.
🎧 Press play and discover how a little intentional play can lead to big breakthroughs.
You can find additional resources at parentingadhdandautism.com and Regulated Kids.com — because it’s not just about the struggles, it’s about progress, one step at a time.
Show notes and more resources at parentingadhdandautism.com/315
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/beautifully-complex--6137613/support.
In this joy-filled episode, I sit down with Kelsey Cook, mom of four, former teacher, and founder of Learning with Kelsey, to unpack the science and soul behind play-based learning. Together, we explore how creativity and play aren't just fun — they're vital tools for connection, emotional regulation, and skill development in neurodivergent kids.
From sensory-friendly adaptations to parent-child rituals that build predictability, you'll walk away with practical strategies to foster emotional intelligence, meet your child’s sensory needs, and bring more joy to learning (without a single worksheet in sight).
If you’ve ever struggled to get your child engaged in learning or wondered how to balance structure with flexibility, this episode will leave you inspired and equipped.
🎧 Press play and discover how a little intentional play can lead to big breakthroughs.
You can find additional resources at parentingadhdandautism.com and Regulated Kids.com — because it’s not just about the struggles, it’s about progress, one step at a time.
Show notes and more resources at parentingadhdandautism.com/315
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/beautifully-complex--6137613/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
I get a lot of comments where people will say
kids just need to play, they don't need activities set up,
you know, which, to an extent is true. That kids
do need to play, and play is so important. It's
like the work of childhood, you know, is them getting
to play. But there is also such a benefit to
the time you're spending with your child when you're doing
(00:23):
these dedicated activities. I feel like the connection that you're
getting with your child is the biggest benefit.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Welcome to the Beautifully Complex podcast, where I share insights
and strategies on parenting neurodiversent kids straight from the trenches.
I'm your host, Penny Williams. I'm a parenting coach, author
and mindset mama, honored to guide you on the journey
of raising your atypical kid. Let's get started. Welcome back
(00:56):
to Beautifully Complex. Everybody. I have with me today Sea Cook,
and we're going to talk about implementing both creativity and
play in learning. And I'm sure we're going to dive
into why that is effective, why that's powerful, why that's
useful for us to do both parents and educators. But
(01:19):
let's start. Kelsey, Will you just let everybody know who
you are and what you do.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, So I'm Kelsey. I am a mom of four,
and I'm also I was a teacher. I taught school
for ten years and then I now own a company
called Learning with Kelsey and we send out activity boxes
to help parents better connect and learn with their kids
at home.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
I love that. I've looked at your activity boxes. They're
so cute, it's so fun. Just good ways to impart
skills too, right, But that which I'm sure we're going
to go into. I have a membership where I plan
activities for younger kids for learning, regulation and emotional intelligence,
and I love creating them. It's so much fun to
create them. And I'm sure you feel the same about
(02:03):
your kids.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Oh, and I love it.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
My son, when he was young, we used to get
some of the subscription kids and he loved it. He
loved having a package come right and the Yale for
him and stuff like. It was so exciting to him.
So it's such a cool thing that you're doing.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Where should we start with this? Maybe? Why is it
so powerful to use play, to use creativity when we're
talking about helping kids learn.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Well, I feel like, especially with the younger kids when
you are, when you're trying to keep their attention and
trying to do all of these things, I think we
kind of forget that play is where they're learning, you know,
play their own play, even without you stepping in and guiding,
is where they're really learning all these different skills, where
they're practicing skills that they have learned. And so the
(02:55):
more that we can incorporate play into their learning, the
better it's going to be for them in the end.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah. Yeah, and they're more engaged.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Oh for sure.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
If it's fun.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Yeah, they're more excited, which I think is like the
best thing that you can do as a teacher is
get your kids excited about learning, and the same thing
as a parent. You know, if you're excited about something,
they're excited about it. So the more engaging and fun
you can make it, the easier it is for them
to learn.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah, and for neurodivergent brains too. When there's interest, they're
more engaged, they're more focused, it's easier to get things done.
So it's a big deal. Can we talk a little
bit about what creative learning might look like at home
in a classroom. We're definitely talking about preschool maybe elementary
(03:42):
school kids, But what can that look like? Can you
give us some examples?
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yeah, So one of our very favorite ones to do
that is always a hit with Toddler's preschoolers, and I've
even done it with my kindergarteners is taking a toilet
paper too and we tape it to the wall and
they drop pomp poms through it. It seems so simple,
but it's like they're getting this hands on practice where
they're practicing one to one counting by dropping it in,
(04:07):
but they're also practicing colors. You can add more toilet
paper tubes, and they're practicing stem you know, engineering ideas,
coming up with different ways to do it. And it's
something that a lot of parents have at home, you know.
I mean you have you have toilet paper tub at home.
You may not have a thousand pump pums like I have,
but like there's so many different ways to tweak this
(04:28):
activity and it lets them be creative but also learn.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah. I actually watched your Instagram reel on this one
earlier today.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Oh I love it.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
You had so many like different pieces of it that
I could see are like sort of occupational therapy and
sensory and find motor and stuff, And I was like,
why would I not think to do that when my
kids were a little But you don't, you know, you
don't know what, you don't know, No, but like using
what did you have in their tweezers or something where
(05:00):
they could pick up the pump pumps they were sorting
them right, and there was so much to it.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
And then it's like, you know, you can kind of
lean in, like you said, to their interest, especially kids
that are nerd a vergent, Like maybe you have a
child that really loves cars or really loves trains, and like, okay,
let's do the toilet paper tubes with a car. Let's
drop a car through it and see what happens.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Mm hmm yeah. Yeah. And I'm even thinking like sensory
like smell, like using cotton balls and putting different essential
oils on them or I've.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Never thought that idea.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Yeah, there are so many ways to integrate that sensory
play and getting kids, you know, some of that that
need met, while also fostering skills or keeping them just
occupied and interested. Sometimes is open, right.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Yeah, sometimes we love that.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Yeah, So how can we sort of balance both structure
and what kids get from free play because we know
right from the science that free play is super import
important to learning and development. But why is some structured
play also important.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Yeah, that's a good question because I think I get
a lot of comments where people will say kids just
need to play, they don't need activity, it's set up,
you know, and which to an extent is true that
kids do need to play and play is so important.
It's like the work of childhood, you know, is them
getting to play. But there is also such a benefit
to the time you're spending with your child when you're
(06:29):
doing these dedicated activities. So for me, I feel like
the connection that you're getting with your child when you're
sitting down and doing this activity with them is the
biggest benefit that you're having from it. And then having
something that they can expect, you know, a structure, a
routine is so important for little kids. Yeah, And so
(06:50):
if in their routine they know, okay, today I'm going
to get ten minutes with my mom to do this,
I know I'll always get a tim in activity whatever
it is. Not only is that going to help them
prep and be ready and know what's coming in the day,
but it also I think helps a behavior in so
many ways because they know this one on one time
is coming. They know they're going to get your unvided
(07:11):
attention for these ten minutes, and so I think that
is a really powerful way to use it.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Yeah, and relationship is so so important in parenting anyway,
and helping kids to feel seen and heard and valued
when we do things with them together. But I love
that you also brought up the predictability aspect because it
is big, especially in the nerd divergent community, with kids
having some sense of predictability. And it doesn't have to
(07:39):
be a rigid structure or rigid routine, right, but just
something to look forward to on a regular basis. Like
a lot of times when I'm coaching families and their
child is struggling with a sense of predictability, I'll say, well,
you know, once a week, can you bake cookies together?
Once a week? Can you do a craft together? Right? Like,
what can you do on a consistent says that they
(08:00):
can start to expect because that gives that sense of
predictability throughout, even if it's a weekly ritual. And so
these activities that you're talking about can totally work for
that as well.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Yeah, and you're not asking a mom to sit down
and do an hour craft with their three year old,
because as we know, that's literally what's happen. So it's
really just ten minutes, ten to fifteen minutes that you're
you're getting to spend with them. And yeah, like you said,
a schedule, a routine, like even for me as a mom,
is so helpful. And when I don't have a routine,
(08:34):
you know, you can like feel the chaos building. And
I think kids definitely feel that, and especially neurodivergent kids
can feel like, Okay, I'm feeling out of control, and
that's because I don't know what's coming next, you know.
And so something is simple as setting the expectation for
the day, setting out Okay, here's what we're gonna do today.
We're gonna do breakfast, then we get to do an activity,
and then you're gonna go play by yourself for twenty
(08:56):
minute or whatever, you know, so that they know what's
coming and it kind of will help them to prepare
and be ready for it.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Yeah. Can we talk a little bit too about experiential
learning experiential play. How do we incorporate like I'm thinking
of kids who are very tactile and like the pom
pong game that you just talked about is a great
one for that, But also is there a way to
incorporate experience in it so that it's like hands on learning.
(09:23):
I'm thinking like cooking with your kid or things like that,
that maybe you can incorporate a little bit of math
or a little bit of you know, broader learning rather
than just skill building and development. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Yeah, yep, totally. Yeah. I love that because I think
as moms we don't realize how much learning and teaching
that we're doing, even in these simple, simple activities or
tasks that we're doing during the day. So if you
can pull your kid into your world and you know,
ask them, do you want to help me? We're going
to put the laundry in. And it's funny, you know,
because when they're four, they love to do the laundry.
When they're intend, they hate to do the laundry.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Yes, it goes away.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yeah, you could say, Okay, you're gonna help me, and
we're gonna throw them in to the basket and we're
gonna do them in different colors, you know, and you're
sorting colors and you can go outside on a walk
and when you're on your walk you can play I
Spy and these like are so simple, but they're learning,
you know, they're learning colors, they're learning sounds, they're learning
how to notice something and give clues, like all of
(10:21):
these different skills that you probably don't know you're doing,
even as simple as going to the library with your child,
you know, and when you're walking through the library, notice
things that are the same different pick books that they like,
you know. Like you said, really honing in on their
interests and things that they love is going to make
it even better for them.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
I learned too, to sort of be a narrator of
my own experience so that I could impart skills that
otherwise wouldn't necessarily be learned. But when we do that,
we're engaging with our kids. We're engaging in a relationship there, right,
instead of sort of going with the flow of whatever.
(11:02):
I think we get so lost sometimes on autopilot. And
what you're talking about really is intentionality within our parenting. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah, Like the other day I was making acasidia and
my nine year old was like, well, can I learn
how to do it? And I'm like, no, I'm just
gonna do it, and then I was like, okay, wait
a second, there's not gonna be much longer when he's
gonna ask me, can I do something with you? So
I was like, okay, let me teach you how, And
he was so excited to make a caseia you know,
four minutes but like, yeah, he felt so proud he
(11:32):
learned a new skill. And it's like those moments if
we can kind of stop ourselves, and sometimes it's easier
to not, you know, because you can go faster, you
can do it better, but it can really really.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Help them hundred percent. Can you give us some more
examples of activities I'm thinking, like, you know, we talked
about sensory a little bit, what other areas do you
incorporate creativity and play and art really too right into learning?
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yeah, So in like with the preschoolers, they're learning letters,
you know, but learning letters doesn't have to just be
tracing on a paper. They always get like in the box,
they always get like a little bit of colored sand
for each month, and so with the sand, we trace
the letter in the sand before they write, because you know,
forming letters is so much more than just use your
(12:30):
hands to write the letter. Yeah, so they're tracing it
in the sand. And then we'll even like do a
dot sticker activity where they're using stickers to find the
letter A and cover up the letter A. And then
we'll have a craft where we're going to make an apple,
and when we're making the apple, they're getting to rip
paper to be on the apple, so like they don't
(12:50):
even know you're making. You're working on your fine motor
skills when you're ripping, you're working on your hand eye
coordination when you're gluing and cutting, and they're working on
their color when they're doing this, And then with their letters,
they're learning the letter and the sound in such a
fun way that is not kind of the normal way
that you would think of learning letters.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Yeah, it's not sitting down and just writing worksheet. Yep. Yes, yes,
it comes to me though, as you're talking about that,
that some of our kids really struggle with some of
those fine motor skills. Cutting. My son's twenty two now
and cutting is still difficult for him. He can get
it done at this point, but like it's not pretty, yeah,
and it's just not fun. Part of the way his
(13:32):
brain is wired. Right, We worked on scissor skills these things,
but his brain is wired a little bit differently. So
with kids who struggle with some of those kinds of things,
how do you adapt these activities to work for them
and not be a frustration.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Yeah, I think first of all, you need to know
your child, you know, And that's kind of the benefit
of doing activities with them and learning things, because then
you kind of really understand what their learning style is
or what doesn't work for them. So like, for example,
in the activity with the apple, if it was supposed
to be cutting, I would have them rip, so I
would have them rip the papers, and then if that
was tricky for them, you can even like you know,
(14:11):
adapt it by starting the rip, letting them finish ripping it,
or even just cutting them for them and just working
on gluing them because picking up small pieces of paper
is a fine motor skill, you know, and so kind
of just adapting each one to where they're at. There's
so many different ways. Like I'm trying to think of
one that we did the other day where we were
kind of switching it. They were doing a paper plate
(14:32):
where they were using their fingers to dot paint all
over the paper plate and one of my kids, I
have a pre skull that I do right now. A
few little kids they hate having things on their hands.
It's just a sensory thing, you know. They don't like
the paint on their hands, they don't like how it feels.
It's just not their thing. So instead they used a
Q tip and they dotted it in the pain, and
then they did not So they're still doing the same thing,
(14:55):
just kind of switching it a little bit to make
them feel more comfortable and more supported in it.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Mm hmm. Yeah, I think we have to set them
up for success.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
We can't get too bogged down by what something is
supposed to be or how it looks in the end. Right,
we have to be more flexible, Yeah, and open for that.
I want to talk a little bit more too about
instilling a sense of creativity, Like how do we get
(15:23):
our kids engaged with more creative, more playful ways of
going about things? Like sometimes I think it's not intuitive
for everyone. So is there a way to foster a
love of that?
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Yeah? I think leaning in when you see them being
creative and kind of helping them to take it a
step further. Like if your child is you see them
out collecting sticks, you can kind of guide a little,
you know, like hey, what could we make with that?
Can you think of something you can make with that?
Or you know, if they're playing with their coloring, let's
(15:59):
see like hey, maybe what if we added some extra
paper to that? What if you cut up paper and
glued it? What could you make? So I think setting
up these like little instances for them to try to
be creative and leaving it open ended because there is
a great stop for here's a craft, here's what we're
going to do. Make it that's fun. But also just
giving them craft supplies and letting them be creative is
(16:21):
also really important. And like you said, it's a skill
that not everybody has. So the more that you give
them that open ended time and allow them the time
to be creative, the better they're going to be. And
then also knowing if you have a child that doesn't
like the open ended you know, because there's something kids
that don't and it frustrates them and they want you
(16:41):
to give them some guidance, Give them guidance and you know,
kind of give as much as you can without doing
the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Right right, provide some ideas, ask some questions. Yeah, and
you know, as you were talking about that, it reminded
me of my own kid when he was getting science
kits in the mail. He never wants created what the
kid was made to do. He only did his own
thing with it right, and he loved it. This was
pure joy for him. He could care less if he
(17:08):
made what was on the instruction paper. It was so
much more fun to him to just be creative with it.
And at first I was like, oh my gosh, I
bought this thing and it's supposed to be this right,
And I was like, wait a minute, he's probably learning
more sure doing what he wanted to with those pieces,
And it was really fun to see the ingenuity. It
was really fun to see what he could come up with.
(17:31):
And I also was learning stuff about him by doing that, right,
I was learning more about his interests, his skills, and
what else he might want to do.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
But it's hard sometimes as a mom, Like you said,
you're like, I bought this, this is not what you're
supposed to do. You want to just like do what
it's meant to do. But like letting go, you got
to experience so much more with him than you would
have probably otherwise.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Oh yeah, totally. It was so much fun. To see
what he would come up with. It was crazy. I
mean it was never anything I would have thought of, Right.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
It's crazy. And then you learn like, Okay, their brain
is so much cooler than mine, why are they doing that?
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Yeah? Like the same with LECO kids. Oh yeah, you'd
really want this kit, but he wouldn't build the thing
that the kid was to build, and he just built
what he wanted to.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
But it was still amazing.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
There's so much sort of parenting wisdom in that in
like just being okay with letting them do their thing.
Child led is really important, right yep, And that's where
we get to the good stuff. That's where they're learning
the most, Yes, right, when they're the most engaged. How
(18:37):
do we help kids who really sort of resist the structure?
So maybe not every time we can let them do
whatever they want to do. Maybe it's you know, a
focused like school activity where they're learning to write letters
or something like that, so we need to focus on that,
but they sort of resist that structure, they even resist
(18:59):
doing that particular activity. Do we just pivot or is
there more to it?
Speaker 1 (19:06):
I think pivoting is a very great tool that we
can use as parents, as like you said, being flexible.
But I also think there's value in giving them one
or two choices to do. You know, so maybe you
know that your child is one to resist activities and
resist doing the school thing. So instead of saying, okay,
we're gonna sit down and do this, you say, okay,
(19:27):
we've got two different things that we can do today,
Which one do you want to do? And tell them
about both and let them choose. So it feels more
like their idea. They're excited and they've gotten some independence
in it, you know, to let them pick, But then
they're still doing the structure. They're still getting this specific
time and not getting to just have a free for
(19:47):
all all day long.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Right yeah, which can be what they really want. Yeah yeah,
and harder and really difficult to stop sometimes, right for sure.
But like too, when you know your kid, know if
it's just not going to work out that day, and
you can pivot and then you can come back to it.
You know. I talk a lot with parents about the
fact that, you know, neurodivergence is a developmental delay. We're
(20:10):
not saying that your kid is never going to tie
their shoes, We're just going to give up on it completely.
We're just pushing it down the timeline a little bit, right,
And so exactly, we can always come back to things
and we don't have to fit all the norms, right,
We don't have to sit down and do things perfectly,
because nobody learns from that, really no.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
And I as a kindergarten teacher, I would get parents
always asking me, like, what do they need to do
to be ready to kindergart? Do they need to learn
all their letters? Do they need to? And it's so
funny that you're saying, like the developmental part of it
is the same with letter learning, Like learning letters is developmental,
and it doesn't matter if your child learns them at
three or five. One's not smarter than the other one.
(20:51):
They're just they just weren't ready yet. So no matter what,
even if you drill it into them for years, it
doesn't matter if they aren't ready. So my advice to
parents always is expose them to it. That's all you
can do, you know, like give them opportunities to see letters,
talk about letters, play with letters, build letters with Plato,
build them with legos, do whatever you can to just
(21:13):
expose them to the letters. And then one day you're
going to be shocked that they're going to say, oh, hey,
that's an a that's a beat. You know, It's really
crazy how fast it comes and how it doesn't matter
if you've sat down and written letters or if you've
just talked about them. So making it something that they're
excited about, that they're loving is the best way for them.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Yeah, And that reminds me too, just being open to
the ways that they learn, yes, and recognizing that sometimes
they are learning when we don't think they are. Yeah.
You know, my son's kindergarten teacher said, I can't even
get him to sit at the carpet or anywhere near
the carpet during reading time, right, Like, he's off, He's
in all these PlayStations, he's doing all these things, which
was a complaint, of course, But then she said, every
(21:55):
question I asked about the story I was reading, he
was always the first one to raise his hand. He
always has the right answer. Yep. I'm like, yeah, because
he needed to move to listen and hu and he
needed that movement. But like, you never know, there are
so many different ways to listen, and it isn't just
sitting still making eye contact. And I think that's important
(22:15):
in this conversation too, that like, even in creative things
and playful things, sometimes we do want to hold kids
to that. Yeah, you know, this is my idea of
paying attention and getting things done, like we can be
more free with it.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yeah. Yeah, And like you said, knowing your child's learning
style is so important, and I think a lot of
parents don't realize that, And so getting on their level
and doing these activities with them will help you to
know how they learn. You know, you'll be able to say, Okay,
my child is very visual, they need to see the
math before they can do it, or my child's thinking
(22:50):
it in their head. They don't want to use manipulatives.
They just want to do it, you know. So knowing
that as a parent is going to help you with
your kid when they're little, but then as they grow.
So you can be a source to the teacher and
you can be a partner with them in helping them
to know what your child will need to succeed.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
How do we partner with teachers? So if we have
a kid who's in preschool or elementary and outside of
the home, how do we help them to want to
incorporate more play and creativity into learning? And can we
influence that.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
I think you definitely can. I think parents need to
not be afraid to be partners with the teacher, you know,
because I think if you have a good teacher, they
want to be your partner in this. They want to
know what's best for your child. They want to help
your child, they want them to succeed. So being involved
in your child's education, whether that looks like you're going
in and you're meeting with them before school starts and
(23:47):
you're talking through what has been helpful to your child
to help them succeed, or you're coming in and you're
volunteering and you're getting to see your child in the
classroom and see what they need. I think just being
open and having open communication with them is going to
help to help your child succeed in their school and
also at home.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
And we can also always add learning at home, right,
we can add too what they're doing at school with
more creativity at home. Kelsey, will you tell everybody where
they can find information about your subscription box and connect
with you online so that they can learn more and
maybe subscribe as well.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Yeah, So I'm on Instagram at Learning with Kelsey, and
then my website is learning with Kelsey dot com and
that is where the boxes are, and then on Instagram
we're just I just share a lot of good tips
and fun things that you can do with your kids.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Awesome. I will link that up for everyone in the
show notes as well, which is at parentingadhdanautsism dot com
slash three one five per episode three hundred and fifteen.
Thank you so much. Your enthusiasm is contagious and I
love talking to people who are just so passionate about
helping kids learn like it can be fun. It doesn't
(25:02):
have to be a chore. Yeah, for sure, I appreciate
what you're doing.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Oh well, thank you so much for having me on.
It was so fun to talk to.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
You back atcha. I will see everybody next time. Take
good care. Thanks for joining me on the Beautifully Complex podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share, and
don't forget to check out my online courses and parent
coaching at parentingadhd adutsism dot com and at The Behavior
(25:29):
Revolution dot com.
I get a lot of comments where people will say
kids just need to play, they don't need activities set up,
you know, which, to an extent is true. That kids
do need to play, and play is so important. It's
like the work of childhood, you know, is them getting
to play. But there is also such a benefit to
the time you're spending with your child when you're doing
(00:23):
these dedicated activities. I feel like the connection that you're
getting with your child is the biggest benefit.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Welcome to the Beautifully Complex podcast, where I share insights
and strategies on parenting neurodiversent kids straight from the trenches.
I'm your host, Penny Williams. I'm a parenting coach, author
and mindset mama, honored to guide you on the journey
of raising your atypical kid. Let's get started. Welcome back
(00:56):
to Beautifully Complex. Everybody. I have with me today Sea Cook,
and we're going to talk about implementing both creativity and
play in learning. And I'm sure we're going to dive
into why that is effective, why that's powerful, why that's
useful for us to do both parents and educators. But
(01:19):
let's start. Kelsey, Will you just let everybody know who
you are and what you do.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, So I'm Kelsey. I am a mom of four,
and I'm also I was a teacher. I taught school
for ten years and then I now own a company
called Learning with Kelsey and we send out activity boxes
to help parents better connect and learn with their kids
at home.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
I love that. I've looked at your activity boxes. They're
so cute, it's so fun. Just good ways to impart
skills too, right, But that which I'm sure we're going
to go into. I have a membership where I plan
activities for younger kids for learning, regulation and emotional intelligence,
and I love creating them. It's so much fun to
create them. And I'm sure you feel the same about
(02:03):
your kids.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Oh, and I love it.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
My son, when he was young, we used to get
some of the subscription kids and he loved it. He
loved having a package come right and the Yale for
him and stuff like. It was so exciting to him.
So it's such a cool thing that you're doing.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Where should we start with this? Maybe? Why is it
so powerful to use play, to use creativity when we're
talking about helping kids learn.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Well, I feel like, especially with the younger kids when
you are, when you're trying to keep their attention and
trying to do all of these things, I think we
kind of forget that play is where they're learning, you know,
play their own play, even without you stepping in and guiding,
is where they're really learning all these different skills, where
they're practicing skills that they have learned. And so the
(02:55):
more that we can incorporate play into their learning, the
better it's going to be for them in the end.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah. Yeah, and they're more engaged.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Oh for sure.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
If it's fun.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Yeah, they're more excited, which I think is like the
best thing that you can do as a teacher is
get your kids excited about learning, and the same thing
as a parent. You know, if you're excited about something,
they're excited about it. So the more engaging and fun
you can make it, the easier it is for them
to learn.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah, and for neurodivergent brains too. When there's interest, they're
more engaged, they're more focused, it's easier to get things done.
So it's a big deal. Can we talk a little
bit about what creative learning might look like at home
in a classroom. We're definitely talking about preschool maybe elementary
(03:42):
school kids, But what can that look like? Can you
give us some examples?
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yeah, So one of our very favorite ones to do
that is always a hit with Toddler's preschoolers, and I've
even done it with my kindergarteners is taking a toilet
paper too and we tape it to the wall and
they drop pomp poms through it. It seems so simple,
but it's like they're getting this hands on practice where
they're practicing one to one counting by dropping it in,
(04:07):
but they're also practicing colors. You can add more toilet
paper tubes, and they're practicing stem you know, engineering ideas,
coming up with different ways to do it. And it's
something that a lot of parents have at home, you know.
I mean you have you have toilet paper tub at home.
You may not have a thousand pump pums like I have,
but like there's so many different ways to tweak this
(04:28):
activity and it lets them be creative but also learn.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah. I actually watched your Instagram reel on this one
earlier today.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Oh I love it.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
You had so many like different pieces of it that
I could see are like sort of occupational therapy and
sensory and find motor and stuff, And I was like,
why would I not think to do that when my
kids were a little But you don't, you know, you
don't know what, you don't know, No, but like using
what did you have in their tweezers or something where
(05:00):
they could pick up the pump pumps they were sorting
them right, and there was so much to it.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
And then it's like, you know, you can kind of
lean in, like you said, to their interest, especially kids
that are nerd a vergent, Like maybe you have a
child that really loves cars or really loves trains, and like, okay,
let's do the toilet paper tubes with a car. Let's
drop a car through it and see what happens.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Mm hmm yeah. Yeah. And I'm even thinking like sensory
like smell, like using cotton balls and putting different essential
oils on them or I've.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Never thought that idea.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Yeah, there are so many ways to integrate that sensory
play and getting kids, you know, some of that that
need met, while also fostering skills or keeping them just
occupied and interested. Sometimes is open, right.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Yeah, sometimes we love that.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Yeah, So how can we sort of balance both structure
and what kids get from free play because we know
right from the science that free play is super import
important to learning and development. But why is some structured
play also important.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Yeah, that's a good question because I think I get
a lot of comments where people will say kids just
need to play, they don't need activity, it's set up,
you know, and which to an extent is true that
kids do need to play and play is so important.
It's like the work of childhood, you know, is them
getting to play. But there is also such a benefit
to the time you're spending with your child when you're
(06:29):
doing these dedicated activities. So for me, I feel like
the connection that you're getting with your child when you're
sitting down and doing this activity with them is the
biggest benefit that you're having from it. And then having
something that they can expect, you know, a structure, a
routine is so important for little kids. Yeah, And so
(06:50):
if in their routine they know, okay, today I'm going
to get ten minutes with my mom to do this,
I know I'll always get a tim in activity whatever
it is. Not only is that going to help them
prep and be ready and know what's coming in the day,
but it also I think helps a behavior in so
many ways because they know this one on one time
is coming. They know they're going to get your unvided
(07:11):
attention for these ten minutes, and so I think that
is a really powerful way to use it.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Yeah, and relationship is so so important in parenting anyway,
and helping kids to feel seen and heard and valued
when we do things with them together. But I love
that you also brought up the predictability aspect because it
is big, especially in the nerd divergent community, with kids
having some sense of predictability. And it doesn't have to
(07:39):
be a rigid structure or rigid routine, right, but just
something to look forward to on a regular basis. Like
a lot of times when I'm coaching families and their
child is struggling with a sense of predictability, I'll say, well,
you know, once a week, can you bake cookies together?
Once a week? Can you do a craft together? Right? Like,
what can you do on a consistent says that they
(08:00):
can start to expect because that gives that sense of
predictability throughout, even if it's a weekly ritual. And so
these activities that you're talking about can totally work for
that as well.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Yeah, and you're not asking a mom to sit down
and do an hour craft with their three year old,
because as we know, that's literally what's happen. So it's
really just ten minutes, ten to fifteen minutes that you're
you're getting to spend with them. And yeah, like you said,
a schedule, a routine, like even for me as a mom,
is so helpful. And when I don't have a routine,
(08:34):
you know, you can like feel the chaos building. And
I think kids definitely feel that, and especially neurodivergent kids
can feel like, Okay, I'm feeling out of control, and
that's because I don't know what's coming next, you know.
And so something is simple as setting the expectation for
the day, setting out Okay, here's what we're gonna do today.
We're gonna do breakfast, then we get to do an activity,
and then you're gonna go play by yourself for twenty
(08:56):
minute or whatever, you know, so that they know what's
coming and it kind of will help them to prepare
and be ready for it.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Yeah. Can we talk a little bit too about experiential
learning experiential play. How do we incorporate like I'm thinking
of kids who are very tactile and like the pom
pong game that you just talked about is a great
one for that, But also is there a way to
incorporate experience in it so that it's like hands on learning.
(09:23):
I'm thinking like cooking with your kid or things like that,
that maybe you can incorporate a little bit of math
or a little bit of you know, broader learning rather
than just skill building and development. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Yeah, yep, totally. Yeah. I love that because I think
as moms we don't realize how much learning and teaching
that we're doing, even in these simple, simple activities or
tasks that we're doing during the day. So if you
can pull your kid into your world and you know,
ask them, do you want to help me? We're going
to put the laundry in. And it's funny, you know,
because when they're four, they love to do the laundry.
When they're intend, they hate to do the laundry.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Yes, it goes away.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yeah, you could say, Okay, you're gonna help me, and
we're gonna throw them in to the basket and we're
gonna do them in different colors, you know, and you're
sorting colors and you can go outside on a walk
and when you're on your walk you can play I
Spy and these like are so simple, but they're learning,
you know, they're learning colors, they're learning sounds, they're learning
how to notice something and give clues, like all of
(10:21):
these different skills that you probably don't know you're doing,
even as simple as going to the library with your child,
you know, and when you're walking through the library, notice
things that are the same different pick books that they like,
you know. Like you said, really honing in on their
interests and things that they love is going to make
it even better for them.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
I learned too, to sort of be a narrator of
my own experience so that I could impart skills that
otherwise wouldn't necessarily be learned. But when we do that,
we're engaging with our kids. We're engaging in a relationship there, right,
instead of sort of going with the flow of whatever.
(11:02):
I think we get so lost sometimes on autopilot. And
what you're talking about really is intentionality within our parenting. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah, Like the other day I was making acasidia and
my nine year old was like, well, can I learn
how to do it? And I'm like, no, I'm just
gonna do it, and then I was like, okay, wait
a second, there's not gonna be much longer when he's
gonna ask me, can I do something with you? So
I was like, okay, let me teach you how, And
he was so excited to make a caseia you know,
four minutes but like, yeah, he felt so proud he
(11:32):
learned a new skill. And it's like those moments if
we can kind of stop ourselves, and sometimes it's easier
to not, you know, because you can go faster, you
can do it better, but it can really really.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Help them hundred percent. Can you give us some more
examples of activities I'm thinking, like, you know, we talked
about sensory a little bit, what other areas do you
incorporate creativity and play and art really too right into learning?
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yeah, So in like with the preschoolers, they're learning letters,
you know, but learning letters doesn't have to just be
tracing on a paper. They always get like in the box,
they always get like a little bit of colored sand
for each month, and so with the sand, we trace
the letter in the sand before they write, because you know,
forming letters is so much more than just use your
(12:30):
hands to write the letter. Yeah, so they're tracing it
in the sand. And then we'll even like do a
dot sticker activity where they're using stickers to find the
letter A and cover up the letter A. And then
we'll have a craft where we're going to make an apple,
and when we're making the apple, they're getting to rip
paper to be on the apple, so like they don't
(12:50):
even know you're making. You're working on your fine motor
skills when you're ripping, you're working on your hand eye
coordination when you're gluing and cutting, and they're working on
their color when they're doing this, And then with their letters,
they're learning the letter and the sound in such a
fun way that is not kind of the normal way
that you would think of learning letters.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Yeah, it's not sitting down and just writing worksheet. Yep. Yes, yes,
it comes to me though, as you're talking about that,
that some of our kids really struggle with some of
those fine motor skills. Cutting. My son's twenty two now
and cutting is still difficult for him. He can get
it done at this point, but like it's not pretty, yeah,
and it's just not fun. Part of the way his
(13:32):
brain is wired. Right, We worked on scissor skills these things,
but his brain is wired a little bit differently. So
with kids who struggle with some of those kinds of things,
how do you adapt these activities to work for them
and not be a frustration.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Yeah, I think first of all, you need to know
your child, you know, And that's kind of the benefit
of doing activities with them and learning things, because then
you kind of really understand what their learning style is
or what doesn't work for them. So like, for example,
in the activity with the apple, if it was supposed
to be cutting, I would have them rip, so I
would have them rip the papers, and then if that
was tricky for them, you can even like you know,
(14:11):
adapt it by starting the rip, letting them finish ripping it,
or even just cutting them for them and just working
on gluing them because picking up small pieces of paper
is a fine motor skill, you know, and so kind
of just adapting each one to where they're at. There's
so many different ways. Like I'm trying to think of
one that we did the other day where we were
kind of switching it. They were doing a paper plate
(14:32):
where they were using their fingers to dot paint all
over the paper plate and one of my kids, I
have a pre skull that I do right now. A
few little kids they hate having things on their hands.
It's just a sensory thing, you know. They don't like
the paint on their hands, they don't like how it feels.
It's just not their thing. So instead they used a
Q tip and they dotted it in the pain, and
then they did not So they're still doing the same thing,
(14:55):
just kind of switching it a little bit to make
them feel more comfortable and more supported in it.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Mm hmm. Yeah, I think we have to set them
up for success.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
We can't get too bogged down by what something is
supposed to be or how it looks in the end. Right,
we have to be more flexible, Yeah, and open for that.
I want to talk a little bit more too about
instilling a sense of creativity, Like how do we get
(15:23):
our kids engaged with more creative, more playful ways of
going about things? Like sometimes I think it's not intuitive
for everyone. So is there a way to foster a
love of that?
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Yeah? I think leaning in when you see them being
creative and kind of helping them to take it a
step further. Like if your child is you see them
out collecting sticks, you can kind of guide a little,
you know, like hey, what could we make with that?
Can you think of something you can make with that?
Or you know, if they're playing with their coloring, let's
(15:59):
see like hey, maybe what if we added some extra
paper to that? What if you cut up paper and
glued it? What could you make? So I think setting
up these like little instances for them to try to
be creative and leaving it open ended because there is
a great stop for here's a craft, here's what we're
going to do. Make it that's fun. But also just
giving them craft supplies and letting them be creative is
(16:21):
also really important. And like you said, it's a skill
that not everybody has. So the more that you give
them that open ended time and allow them the time
to be creative, the better they're going to be. And
then also knowing if you have a child that doesn't
like the open ended you know, because there's something kids
that don't and it frustrates them and they want you
(16:41):
to give them some guidance, Give them guidance and you know,
kind of give as much as you can without doing
the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Right right, provide some ideas, ask some questions. Yeah, and
you know, as you were talking about that, it reminded
me of my own kid when he was getting science
kits in the mail. He never wants created what the
kid was made to do. He only did his own
thing with it right, and he loved it. This was
pure joy for him. He could care less if he
(17:08):
made what was on the instruction paper. It was so
much more fun to him to just be creative with it.
And at first I was like, oh my gosh, I
bought this thing and it's supposed to be this right,
And I was like, wait a minute, he's probably learning
more sure doing what he wanted to with those pieces,
And it was really fun to see the ingenuity. It
was really fun to see what he could come up with.
(17:31):
And I also was learning stuff about him by doing that, right,
I was learning more about his interests, his skills, and
what else he might want to do.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
But it's hard sometimes as a mom, Like you said,
you're like, I bought this, this is not what you're
supposed to do. You want to just like do what
it's meant to do. But like letting go, you got
to experience so much more with him than you would
have probably otherwise.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Oh yeah, totally. It was so much fun. To see
what he would come up with. It was crazy. I
mean it was never anything I would have thought of, Right.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
It's crazy. And then you learn like, Okay, their brain
is so much cooler than mine, why are they doing that?
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Yeah? Like the same with LECO kids. Oh yeah, you'd
really want this kit, but he wouldn't build the thing
that the kid was to build, and he just built
what he wanted to.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
But it was still amazing.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
There's so much sort of parenting wisdom in that in
like just being okay with letting them do their thing.
Child led is really important, right yep, And that's where
we get to the good stuff. That's where they're learning
the most, Yes, right, when they're the most engaged. How
(18:37):
do we help kids who really sort of resist the structure?
So maybe not every time we can let them do
whatever they want to do. Maybe it's you know, a
focused like school activity where they're learning to write letters
or something like that, so we need to focus on that,
but they sort of resist that structure, they even resist
(18:59):
doing that particular activity. Do we just pivot or is
there more to it?
Speaker 1 (19:06):
I think pivoting is a very great tool that we
can use as parents, as like you said, being flexible.
But I also think there's value in giving them one
or two choices to do. You know, so maybe you
know that your child is one to resist activities and
resist doing the school thing. So instead of saying, okay,
we're gonna sit down and do this, you say, okay,
(19:27):
we've got two different things that we can do today,
Which one do you want to do? And tell them
about both and let them choose. So it feels more
like their idea. They're excited and they've gotten some independence
in it, you know, to let them pick, But then
they're still doing the structure. They're still getting this specific
time and not getting to just have a free for
(19:47):
all all day long.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Right yeah, which can be what they really want. Yeah yeah,
and harder and really difficult to stop sometimes, right for sure.
But like too, when you know your kid, know if
it's just not going to work out that day, and
you can pivot and then you can come back to it.
You know. I talk a lot with parents about the
fact that, you know, neurodivergence is a developmental delay. We're
(20:10):
not saying that your kid is never going to tie
their shoes, We're just going to give up on it completely.
We're just pushing it down the timeline a little bit, right,
And so exactly, we can always come back to things
and we don't have to fit all the norms, right,
We don't have to sit down and do things perfectly,
because nobody learns from that, really no.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
And I as a kindergarten teacher, I would get parents
always asking me, like, what do they need to do
to be ready to kindergart? Do they need to learn
all their letters? Do they need to? And it's so
funny that you're saying, like the developmental part of it
is the same with letter learning, Like learning letters is developmental,
and it doesn't matter if your child learns them at
three or five. One's not smarter than the other one.
(20:51):
They're just they just weren't ready yet. So no matter what,
even if you drill it into them for years, it
doesn't matter if they aren't ready. So my advice to
parents always is expose them to it. That's all you
can do, you know, like give them opportunities to see letters,
talk about letters, play with letters, build letters with Plato,
build them with legos, do whatever you can to just
(21:13):
expose them to the letters. And then one day you're
going to be shocked that they're going to say, oh, hey,
that's an a that's a beat. You know, It's really
crazy how fast it comes and how it doesn't matter
if you've sat down and written letters or if you've
just talked about them. So making it something that they're
excited about, that they're loving is the best way for them.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Yeah, And that reminds me too, just being open to
the ways that they learn, yes, and recognizing that sometimes
they are learning when we don't think they are. Yeah.
You know, my son's kindergarten teacher said, I can't even
get him to sit at the carpet or anywhere near
the carpet during reading time, right, Like, he's off, He's
in all these PlayStations, he's doing all these things, which
was a complaint, of course, But then she said, every
(21:55):
question I asked about the story I was reading, he
was always the first one to raise his hand. He
always has the right answer. Yep. I'm like, yeah, because
he needed to move to listen and hu and he
needed that movement. But like, you never know, there are
so many different ways to listen, and it isn't just
sitting still making eye contact. And I think that's important
(22:15):
in this conversation too, that like, even in creative things
and playful things, sometimes we do want to hold kids
to that. Yeah, you know, this is my idea of
paying attention and getting things done, like we can be
more free with it.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yeah. Yeah, And like you said, knowing your child's learning
style is so important, and I think a lot of
parents don't realize that, And so getting on their level
and doing these activities with them will help you to
know how they learn. You know, you'll be able to say, Okay,
my child is very visual, they need to see the
math before they can do it, or my child's thinking
(22:50):
it in their head. They don't want to use manipulatives.
They just want to do it, you know. So knowing
that as a parent is going to help you with
your kid when they're little, but then as they grow.
So you can be a source to the teacher and
you can be a partner with them in helping them
to know what your child will need to succeed.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
How do we partner with teachers? So if we have
a kid who's in preschool or elementary and outside of
the home, how do we help them to want to
incorporate more play and creativity into learning? And can we
influence that.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
I think you definitely can. I think parents need to
not be afraid to be partners with the teacher, you know,
because I think if you have a good teacher, they
want to be your partner in this. They want to
know what's best for your child. They want to help
your child, they want them to succeed. So being involved
in your child's education, whether that looks like you're going
in and you're meeting with them before school starts and
(23:47):
you're talking through what has been helpful to your child
to help them succeed, or you're coming in and you're
volunteering and you're getting to see your child in the
classroom and see what they need. I think just being
open and having open communication with them is going to
help to help your child succeed in their school and
also at home.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
And we can also always add learning at home, right,
we can add too what they're doing at school with
more creativity at home. Kelsey, will you tell everybody where
they can find information about your subscription box and connect
with you online so that they can learn more and
maybe subscribe as well.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Yeah, So I'm on Instagram at Learning with Kelsey, and
then my website is learning with Kelsey dot com and
that is where the boxes are, and then on Instagram
we're just I just share a lot of good tips
and fun things that you can do with your kids.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Awesome. I will link that up for everyone in the
show notes as well, which is at parentingadhdanautsism dot com
slash three one five per episode three hundred and fifteen.
Thank you so much. Your enthusiasm is contagious and I
love talking to people who are just so passionate about
helping kids learn like it can be fun. It doesn't
(25:02):
have to be a chore. Yeah, for sure, I appreciate
what you're doing.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Oh well, thank you so much for having me on.
It was so fun to talk to.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
You back atcha. I will see everybody next time. Take
good care. Thanks for joining me on the Beautifully Complex podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share, and
don't forget to check out my online courses and parent
coaching at parentingadhd adutsism dot com and at The Behavior
(25:29):
Revolution dot com.
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