June 11, 2025 • 31 mins
Ever wonder how to push your child just enough without pushing them over the edge?
In this episode of Beautifully Complex, I sit down with therapist Chris Taylor, LCSW-C, to unpack what it really means to find your child’s “Just Right Balance.” Unlike the more familiar “just right challenge,” this concept is about balancing emotional safety with growth — how to gently nudge our neurodivergent kids out of their comfort zones without creating shutdown or dysregulation.
Chris and I talk about how to know when to step in and when to step back, why validation and predictability are game-changers for emotionally intense kids, and how your own regulation as a parent sets the tone for everything else. Plus, we dig into why fulfillment — not just short-term happiness — should be the goal when helping kids navigate hard things.
If you’ve ever felt stuck between protecting your child and encouraging independence, this episode is full of insights (and real talk) to help you find that elusive middle ground.
Listen now to learn how to help your child grow in confidence and resilience — without losing trust or connection.
You can find additional resources at parentingadhdandautism.com and Regulated Kids.com — because it’s not just about the struggles, it’s about progress, one step at a time.
Show notes and more resources at parentingadhdandautism.com/316
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/beautifully-complex--6137613/support.
In this episode of Beautifully Complex, I sit down with therapist Chris Taylor, LCSW-C, to unpack what it really means to find your child’s “Just Right Balance.” Unlike the more familiar “just right challenge,” this concept is about balancing emotional safety with growth — how to gently nudge our neurodivergent kids out of their comfort zones without creating shutdown or dysregulation.
Chris and I talk about how to know when to step in and when to step back, why validation and predictability are game-changers for emotionally intense kids, and how your own regulation as a parent sets the tone for everything else. Plus, we dig into why fulfillment — not just short-term happiness — should be the goal when helping kids navigate hard things.
If you’ve ever felt stuck between protecting your child and encouraging independence, this episode is full of insights (and real talk) to help you find that elusive middle ground.
Listen now to learn how to help your child grow in confidence and resilience — without losing trust or connection.
You can find additional resources at parentingadhdandautism.com and Regulated Kids.com — because it’s not just about the struggles, it’s about progress, one step at a time.
Show notes and more resources at parentingadhdandautism.com/316
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/beautifully-complex--6137613/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
For sure, there has to be trust because in the
parent therapy you're really trying to shape that environment and
create that trust. There's this quote. I love this quote,
but it's that a child's behavior is irrelevant until the
environment is able to effectively support progress.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Welcome to the Beautifully Complex podcast, where I share insights
and strategies on parenting neurodivergent kids straight from the trenches.
I'm your host, Penny Williams. I'm a parenting coach, author
and mindset mama, honored to guide you on the journey
of raising your atypical kid. Let's get started. Welcome back
(00:45):
to Beautifully Complex everyone. I am joined today by Chris Taylor,
and we're going to talk about just right balance. We've
talked many times on the podcast about it just write challenge,
but this is different. We're talking about just right balance
and I'm really excited to have this conversation and to
(01:05):
help parents help they're struggling kids. First, Chris, will you
start by letting everybody know who you are and what
you do.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
So my name is Chris Taylor. I am a therapist
at Rathbone and Associates here in BETHOSDA, Maryland, and I'm
happy to.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Be here, fantastic. What do you want to tell us
about just right balance? How do are you defining that?
And why is it something that we're here talking about?
Why is it so important?
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Yeah, you know a lot of parents struggle to find
that balance between how much do I push my child
and how much do I, you know, not push my child,
And it's a very difficult balancing act. I mean, and
then much less for kids that have issues and need
special support. So that's how I would really define it.
(01:56):
You know, we know that with the brain, in order
to grow, in order to to learn, we need to
push our kids. They need to be right on that edge.
You know, when you're learning something, you're always moving toward
that uncertainty and you're moving towards something you don't know.
So the problem can happen when we know that's what
(02:17):
kids need. But then some kids moving toward uncertainty creates
a lot of anxiety and stress. So you've got this
issue and it's really hard to find that balance. And
so what I do in therapy with parents, I work
with kids and parents, but what I do in therapy
(02:39):
with parents is try to help them find that balance
and to create an environment where a child can grow.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Basically, Yeah, it is so difficult to figure out how
much to push without breaking our kids, right, especially our
kids are in neudivergent on the spectrum. And I have
a very avoidant kid now young adult, who really didn't
respond to being pushed in any way, shape or form, right,
(03:08):
other than to shut down and pull back and resist.
And so how do we find that sweet spot, yeah,
where we're helping them grow without adding trauma right into
this regulation and all of those things.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Yeah, I think the first step is really understanding our
individual child, right, So you have to understand your child,
and you have to understand what they can tolerate what
they can't. And I would say, you know, so it's
learning to be more of a strategic parent, right because
(03:46):
you know, typically with a lot of just sort of
good enough parenting, it's like, well, with good enough parenting,
you might push a kid and push them too far
and then they get upset. But within some kids, as
you're saying, they're just going to completely fall apart. And
so it's really teeming with your child, so they know,
(04:07):
and it's creating an environment in your house or you know,
I worked in the school system for years two in
a classroom where a child knows that they are going
to be heard and understood and you have that relationship
with them, I think that is a big key.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
So there has to be trust there, right to bridge
that gap between what they're comfortable with and them being
willing to go outside of their comfort zone a little, right.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
For sure. For sure, there has to be trust because
in the parent therapy you're really trying to shape that
environment and create that trust. There's this quote. I love
this quote, but it's that a child's behavior is irrelevant
until the environment is able to effectively support progress. So
(04:55):
it's kind of getting to what you were just talking
about in turns of of how do I create that trust?
Because as you know, I always say, having kids makes
you look in the mirror at yourself as a parent, right,
because you see yourself reacting to your child in ways
like I cannot believe I just said that to my kid,
(05:16):
or I cannot believe I, you know, yelled and screamed,
or you know. And I think that's where you know,
parents will come into therapy and they're trying to figure out,
like how do I control my own my own emotions,
what do I need to do because that can break
down the trust we were just talking about. Yeah, and
you know, so we find that parents kind of fall
(05:38):
onto you know, we're talking about that sweet spot, right.
So there's parents that are really protective and they might
not want to push enough and they're kind of walking
on eggshells in their house. And then their parents on
the other side of the spectrum might be more demanding
and they maybe they push too much for their child.
(05:59):
And we're trying to find that right in the center,
right in the middle spot, and you know, there's some
trial and error obviously to it. I think one of
the biggest steps is really learning how to sort of
control your own emotions, because when you're doing that, you're
now modeling for your child how to control their emotions.
(06:19):
And that's extremely hard to do, as you know with
any kid, but with a kid that needs extra supports.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, when we're disregulated, we can't help a kid regulate.
You know, if you have a dysregulated kid and a
disregulated adult, there's not going to be any regulation there
until somebody walks away and is able to get regulated exactly.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
So oftentimes that's a big piece of the puzzle. The
parent work Yeah, because as you become disregulated, or as
the child becomes disregulated, you know, you lose rationality, you
can't think straight. You're in your Olympics system, which is
that emotional part of the brain. Yeah, and so what
(07:02):
you do as a parent in that place is going
to now model for your child. So, you know, it's
sometimes teaching parents' skills how to sometimes pull back if
they're starting to get angry, frustrated, falling apart. I've had
some parents where I've had to teach them to just
walk away. And it's so hard to do, you know.
(07:24):
I mean, here, I teach this, and then I go
home and I I see the same thing.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Right, We're all human. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, that's
I think. You know, A big turning point for me
and my own parenting was figuring out that I was
the one who needed to be in control, not in
a controlling way, but I could control myself. And that's
where I had to start. And I had to learn
(07:51):
how to show up with the energy and the mindset
that was actually going to be helpful to my kid.
And if I was just upset because they were up,
that that's not helpful. It's not going to change anything.
As you were talking, the word consistency came to me. Yeah,
thinking that consistency is going to be really important to
(08:13):
not only build drust, but to also build willingness to
be challenged.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Would you agree with that?
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah, I would say you do need consistency. But I'll
tell you sometimes I have parents that come in and
they get like almost caught in this trap about the
word consistency, because it's like, no, he has to be punished,
he needs to be punished here.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
We have to be.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Consistent, you know. And so I like the word a
consistency is good. But I do like the word predictability predictable, yeah,
because predictability lowers anxiety, and a lot of times it's
where you are in the process. Sometimes with what we
call these super censor kids, these kids that you know,
(08:56):
they have really strong feelings and they take a long
time to calm down. And what can start to happen
is that these kids can learn from the outside environment
and from sometimes in the home that their feelings and
their thoughts don't make sense, that it is something wrong
with them. And the idea is you don't make sense,
(09:19):
and so you get this almost over exaggerated reaction sometimes
to things right, So when creating that balance, we're trying
to let them know that they do make sense given
who they are. Given you know, who they are as
an individual person in the environment that they come from.
You can always say that somebody's feelings make sense. You
(09:41):
don't necessarily have to agree with somebody's feeling, but if
you put yourself in somebody else's shoes, you know, given
their background and their history, you'll see that their feeling
does make sense. So you can always validate a feeling.
And I think we teach parents a lot of skills
about valid because number one, when a child is starting
(10:04):
to get disregulated, sometimes you can catch them with some
validation and it can kind of pull them back. Not always,
you know, if it gets too high and they lose
too much rationality, then you know, sometimes you're just you know,
speaking to them is you know you're not going to
get anywhere at that point. But so yeah, I mean,
you're talking about consistency and you're talking about predictability. I
(10:26):
just think it's letting them know that I am going
to be in your corner. When I have one of
my moments, I go back to my kids and I
have three boys at home, and you know, I apologize
to them, right because I'm modeling for them how to
be and how to create a relationship. So all those
(10:46):
things are really important. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
And predictability in the ways that you challenge and how
much you challenge maybe, yeah, right, So like if I
kind of if I'm not challenging my kid and then
suddenly I'm really pushing, yeah, it's not going to work right, right.
But if I'm more consistently just really tiny challenges.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah, Like I like that idea of sometimes we'll do
a hierarchy of what's hard for kids, you know, from
one to ten, so ten being you know, the hardest
and one being you know a little bit easier, and
you can work your way kind of up that hierarchy
in terms of trying to challenge them because you know,
like like I said, we need those challenges, you know,
(11:32):
to grow to learn. I mean, so I'll often say
to kids about this idea. I want my kids to
learn how to struggle, right, they need to know what
that feels like and that they can get through that feeling,
not avoid the feeling, not push it away, but get
through the feeling. So you know, I'll say to my
(11:54):
kids sometimes about this idea of struggling. For example, like
if I say to you, okay, what's one plus one
and you say, well, okay, two, what's two plus one? Three? Okay?
How are you doing? How you are you learning something?
It's like, no, you're not learning anything because you're not struggling. So,
like I said at the beginning, you've got to be
(12:15):
right on that edge to grow to actually get those
neurons to connect. They connect through struggle. So sometimes we'll push,
and you know, every day is a different day. One
day that worked, one day it didn't. You know, you're
trying to read your child. You're trying to see where
he or she is, and you're trying to see how
(12:37):
much you can push. We try to come up with
plans with kids. Kids don't always see sort of the
bigger picture like why do I need to do this? Right?
Why am I this doesn't feel good? So I'm not
going to do it? Yep kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Right, Yep, been there, done that.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Yeah, they don't see that bigger picture of down the road.
How if they can struggle and get through something that
then on the other side it's like, oh, okay, I
learned to do something. So, for example, a lot of
times in therapy, I'll talk to the kids about the
idea when I was when I was about three years old,
(13:17):
I thought there was a monster under my bed, right,
pretty common, pretty common thing. I think a lot of
therapists use as an example. And if you think about that,
I mean what I did was I ran to my
parents' room and I wanted to sleep in their bed, right,
So I did that. I did that a number of times.
(13:37):
But if you think about that, it's like, in the
short term that worked, my anxiety went down, which is
what I was looking for, right, But in the long term,
I didn't learn anything. I didn't grow. So what I
ended up learning to do as a three year old,
of course, my dad showed me that underneath the bed. Look,
(14:00):
there's nothing under the bed, and my kid logic would
kick in and be like, well, that's because the monster
moved to the closet because my dad's in the room
kind of thing, right, So what I eventually had to
learn to do was be in that dark room and
expose myself to be in that dark room, and my
(14:22):
anxiety went up and it rose, and then over time
nothing bad happened. It started to come down. I started
to get used to the feeling. I started to habituate
to the feeling. Yeah, that's an important thing to learn
to do, because you start to teach a child that
(14:44):
they can get through difficult feelings. And I think sometimes
we were taught. I mentioned, you know, there's sometimes protective
parents and demanding parents. Sometimes a protective parent won't push
enough and allow their child to feel a feeling, You
to feel that feeling. I just want you to be happy, ye, right,
(15:05):
and that demanding parents like what do you you know,
get in there, there's nothing, there's nothing in there, right,
totally invalidating my feelings of fear. You know, get in there,
there's nothing in there, you know, Stop being a whimp.
I guess that would be sort of the extreme version, right.
So I'd say that sweet spot is having that conversation,
(15:27):
having a trust saying we're going to try to go
into this dark room, and have you learned to get
used to this? You can do it right, you know.
So the first night my anxiety goes up, nothing happens,
it starts to come down. My understanding of this is
that your brain just actually starts to get bored. It
gets bored, with the idea that there's something you know,
(15:51):
and you know there's no monster into the bed. Now,
of course, that whole system, that whole anxiety system is
set up. You know, if there is danger that we
would fight, flight or freeze get out of there, right. Yeah,
So that's I think that's an invaluable lesson when you
learn that as a young kid that you can hang
(16:12):
in and get through a feeling and that your parents
are there to back you up and validate you and
sometimes push you and listen to you. And I think
that's really how you find the sweet spot.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Experiencing things go well, whire's our brain, you know, We're
always making these neural connections, right, and so yeah, if
we are super worried, that keeps happening in those situations.
But if we can experience that we can get through
that thing and that the worst isn't going to happen
like we fear, then the next time it's easier. I
(16:59):
having die and I've really had to push myself over
the years, and and you know, I was terrified to
give a talk in front of people in person, and
finally I was like, you know what, I really want
to do this. I'm going to do it, and I
thought I was going to die. Yes, Like I literally
thought it was going to kill me waiting for my turn.
(17:21):
But then after I was like, oh, I can say
yes to this next time. This is no big deal.
Like I didn't die, I didn't make a fool of myself,
you know. And like I a couple of years ago
had surgery for the first time, I was terrified, exactly terrified.
Now I probably have to have surgery again. I just
(17:42):
found out, and I'm like, Okay, I can do that.
Like I'm not freaked out. And if we can give
our kids the same experiences on a smaller scale, given.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
You know, that's it.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
It's going to change them.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
That's it. Yeah. You know, like I said, you've got
to know your own child and trying to think more strategically.
You know, so kids sometimes will create reinforcers because a
kid doesn't think it that bigger picture, longer term, right,
Like I was saying, like, if I can get you know,
little Chris at age three to go into this dark room, eventually,
(18:17):
he's not going to be afraid of the dark. He's
going to be able to get in there himself. You know,
I didn't think that as a three year old, I
wouldn't have understood that. I just knew that my dad
believed in me, and that he believed I could go
in there. You know, that's a huge, a huge thing.
So one thing I wanted to talk to you about.
(18:39):
It's just something I was thinking of. You know, they've
done a lot of research on happiness, right, there's just
happiness research out there, and there is There was an
article in the Atlantic. I can't remember who had written it,
but they were talking about happiness. They were talking about
least you know, two types of happiness that you know.
(19:00):
That first kind of happiness is that sort of gratification
kind of you know, this tastes good, this feels good
kind of happiness. Right, that's all part of what's called
the limbic system, that emotional center kind of happiness. It's
very short term, it's very you know, if it feels good,
(19:23):
do it. If it doesn't feel good, don't do it.
That's where a lot of our kids are, right and
we get that wall. The second type of happiness they
were discussing was, I mean, for a lack of a
better word, this idea of like fulfillment, this idea that
it's like building something. It's like climbing that mountain. When
(19:45):
you like climb a mountain, you know, there's parts that
you're really enjoying. There's parts that are really hard, there's
parts that are painful. You know, there's parts that are painful.
But you learn through that type of filment type of happiness,
that I can tolerate pain, that I can get through
pain because it's more future oriented. I can see past
(20:08):
that and I can see the bigger picture, and I
want to get to the top of this mountain.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
You have that goal in front of you.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
You have that goal, and when you have a goal,
oftentimes you know you can tolerate some pain because you
know there's something on the other side. You know that
other type of gratification is like that right now, short term,
I want it, and I think sometimes our goal. You know,
(20:35):
I'll hear people talk about, well, I want my kid
to be happy. I want my child to be happy,
and it's like, well, you know, what kind of happiness
are we talking about? And when I explain it, they think, oh, yeah,
I want that more fulfillment type happiness. Okay, so then
we've got to do this work, right, yeah, because otherwise
you can just give people, you know, hey, yeah, here,
(20:56):
here's some candy, and we're gonna you can play, you know,
ten hours of video games, you know, and the idea
of when you're thinking about this fulfillment, this brings into
the idea that sometimes we need to sacrifice, you know,
when you when we sacrifice, we're saying that we're willing
(21:16):
to do something we don't like right now because there's
going to be a payoff in the future. Right Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Yeah, Growth like just keeps coming to my mind. Growth, growth, growth,
Like we have to have difficulty in order to grow.
But I don't feel like we can reach real deep
fulfillment without that, you know, without that painful part that
we did it anyway.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
I don't know how you do it without some pain involved.
And yeah, part of what you're learning to do is
tolerate pain and have a belief that you can tolerate pain.
I could get through this because I got through this
other thing, just like you said, I got through this
(22:08):
surgery before I can do this again, right, Yeah, less unknown,
that's right, it's less unknown. We've faced the monster under
the bed.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Yeah, he wasn't so scary, he wasn't.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Yeah, that's something that the kids start to learn in
therapy with me, is that they learn after they do
some of this, that like, it's not as bad as
I thought. Oftentimes.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Sometimes, look, sometimes things do go wrong, right, Yeah. Sometimes
sometimes it's worse. Sometimes it's worse. But oftentimes with some
of the things we're trying to get the kids to
deal with, you know, going to school or monster under
the bed, It's like I remember joining a new soccer
team as a kid. You know, everybody on my old
(22:51):
soccer team had left, they went to play baseball in
other sports. I think I was like in third grade maybe,
and then the new team, and I was like, oh
my god, what if they don't like me? What if
I'm not good enough? What if I'm like all that? Right,
all the thoughts are spinning in there, and you know,
you can work on those thoughts. But when I went,
I saw, oh, it's not as bad as I thought,
(23:13):
and these kids are nice and you know they're okay,
but I'm right in there.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
With them kind of thing, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, And so it's trying to find those places.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Now.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
I'll say with sometimes kids with autism, we do have
to also be protective too, right, probably more so because
I'm not going to send my child into something that
I know is sort of a setup for them.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
We have to be open to giving them opportunities for success. Right.
But within that, I think is the ability to know
when it just isn't a good fit and that's okay,
that there isn't really maybe a past to success and
it might just be because our kid is wholly disinterested.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Right.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
It doesn't have to be that they can, but that
they just don't want to. And yeah, sometimes we have
to honor that.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yeah, and it's hard to know, you know, some of
our guys will just say that every time, like they
won't get out of the house, you know. So then
we're trying to sort of negotiate these things, and sometimes
we're setting up behavior plans and ways of trying to
move things forward because they're only thinking that very short term.
They're in that sort of limbic system gratification place and
(24:25):
it feels good, do it. If it doesn't feel good,
don't do it. We're trying to get them to that
more fulfilling and learning. Wow, I can tolerate some pain.
I can get through. So there's the balance, and it's
very tough with our supersensor kids that are struggle with this, right,
and so it's not easy. I mean, I'm learning stuff
(24:49):
all the time. So wrath boundin associates where I work
is really known for doing dialectical behavior of therapy. So
now I'm learning DBTC, which is the parent I've sort
of had my own sort of parent stuff I do.
But I'm adding to my toolbox. And you just keep
adding to your toolbox, right, you just keep adding to it.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Yeah, And we can take small steps.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Where you can take small steps, and that's the key
is sometimes taking that small step and then you know,
recognizing that and having that relationship. But you know, if
I have a meltdown as a parent and I you know,
justify it, I think sometimes that breaks down the relationship
for some kids that are already you know, more set
(25:32):
up to see and feel rejection. As I said, the
messages they're already getting is often you don't make sense. Yeah,
So that's why I have to be very careful. You know,
many kids can tolerate a lot of the mistakes that
parents make, right, But with our super sensor kids and
kids on the Office of Spectrum, I think sometimes, you know,
(25:53):
it takes a little bit more, which is why people
come to our practice to learn these skipples, to get
some help with it. It's very difficult and sometimes you
can't see the forest of the trees. You're just stun
So you need somebody who can see that bigger picture
and and help you.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
It's enormously helpful. Yeah, So it sounds like validation, predictability,
building trust, taking small steps, noticing when our kids do
hard things. Those are kind of the keys here to
finding that just right balance.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Yeah, I think so. I think those are a lot
of the pieces. And as things unfold, it's having a
trusted person that you know you can team with. Whether
that's you know, a therapist, sometimes it's you know, just parents.
You know, my wife and I we parent together and
we sometimes I make a mistake and I've got to
take a step back and yeah sometimes I've got to
(26:49):
go back and apologize or vice versa. You know, it's
a very difficult thing. And we get the kids. We
get we get the kids, we get.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yes, and we learned from them though too, Like I'm
a different person because of the kids that I got.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Yeah, Like I said, parenting, it makes you look at
in the mirror. It's like look you have to look
in the mirror at yourself so that you can create
an environment for your child. And yeah, yeah, you know.
I mean my youngest son, when he was five years old,
had a brain tumor in his fairbellum, so he had surgery,
(27:28):
like right before kindergarten. He's seventeen now, he's doing very well.
He's super great kid. But you know, we had a
lot of challenges, right, and he had a lot of
emotionality and we had to work through that. I've always
worked with other people's kids and now you're sort of like,
oh my gosh, so I've lived it too, right, Yeah,
(27:50):
And I think that helps me connect with parents, helps
me connect with kids absolutely, having worked in school systems
and with my own child, and so everybody has a story, right,
so for sure.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Yeah, and there's value in every story. There's value, there's
lived experience, there's emotion, there's you know, the stories are
what connect us in really beautiful ways.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Yeah, and what we need is more connection, right, We're
being disconnected all the time.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Yeah. I think it starts with connection.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
The kids are disconnected out there. That's one of the
problems that we're having is they're disconnected. We've got to
connect them. We have to be that home base for them,
a place that they can feel safe and comfortable and
validated and all the things you named. And we have
to create that because if we model anger and then
(28:45):
we wonder why they're angry. You know, you've got to
look at yourself too. It's not about blaming parents, because
it's you know, you can always understand the feeling. Yeah,
it makes sense the anger that a parent might have,
of course, but have to if they're going to teach
their child and create this environment, they have to step
up before their child steps up. And sometimes, you know,
(29:08):
I run into the dynamic where it's like the child
needs to step up. I've had it where children have
stepped up before parents have stepped up, and it's like, yeah, okay,
the child's learning all these skills and all these things,
and that can get messy. That can get really messy.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
So yeah, it can be really difficult. Will you let
everybody know where to find you online to learn more
from you, to potentially work with you.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
You can reach out to me. I guess through my
email would be a good sources. It's C Taylor LCSWC
at gmail dot com. Our practice is Rathbone and associates
from Bethesda. We have an office in Bethesda and Rockville, Maryland,
(29:52):
which you can always email me. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Perfect I'll link that up in the show notes and
anything else that I have in relation to this episode.
You can find those at Parenting ADHD and Autism dot
com Slash three one six for episode three sixteen. It's
been such an eye opening conversation, Chris. I'm so thankful
that you've given us some of your time and your
experience and your wisdom, and I know that parents are
(30:18):
going to learn and grow as they listen.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Now. I appreciate it. It's been awesome, and I love your
podcasts and your Your website is amazing, so you have
a lot of resources for parents.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
I'm happy to be a part of it.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Fantastic. I will see everybody on the next episode. Take
good care. Thanks for joining me on the Beautifully Complex podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share, and
don't forget to check out my online courses and parent
coaching at PARENTINGADHD and Autism dot com and at the
Behavior Revolution dot com.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
M
For sure, there has to be trust because in the
parent therapy you're really trying to shape that environment and
create that trust. There's this quote. I love this quote,
but it's that a child's behavior is irrelevant until the
environment is able to effectively support progress.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Welcome to the Beautifully Complex podcast, where I share insights
and strategies on parenting neurodivergent kids straight from the trenches.
I'm your host, Penny Williams. I'm a parenting coach, author
and mindset mama, honored to guide you on the journey
of raising your atypical kid. Let's get started. Welcome back
(00:45):
to Beautifully Complex everyone. I am joined today by Chris Taylor,
and we're going to talk about just right balance. We've
talked many times on the podcast about it just write challenge,
but this is different. We're talking about just right balance
and I'm really excited to have this conversation and to
(01:05):
help parents help they're struggling kids. First, Chris, will you
start by letting everybody know who you are and what
you do.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
So my name is Chris Taylor. I am a therapist
at Rathbone and Associates here in BETHOSDA, Maryland, and I'm
happy to.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Be here, fantastic. What do you want to tell us
about just right balance? How do are you defining that?
And why is it something that we're here talking about?
Why is it so important?
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Yeah, you know a lot of parents struggle to find
that balance between how much do I push my child
and how much do I, you know, not push my child,
And it's a very difficult balancing act. I mean, and
then much less for kids that have issues and need
special support. So that's how I would really define it.
(01:56):
You know, we know that with the brain, in order
to grow, in order to to learn, we need to
push our kids. They need to be right on that edge.
You know, when you're learning something, you're always moving toward
that uncertainty and you're moving towards something you don't know.
So the problem can happen when we know that's what
(02:17):
kids need. But then some kids moving toward uncertainty creates
a lot of anxiety and stress. So you've got this
issue and it's really hard to find that balance. And
so what I do in therapy with parents, I work
with kids and parents, but what I do in therapy
(02:39):
with parents is try to help them find that balance
and to create an environment where a child can grow.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Basically, Yeah, it is so difficult to figure out how
much to push without breaking our kids, right, especially our
kids are in neudivergent on the spectrum. And I have
a very avoidant kid now young adult, who really didn't
respond to being pushed in any way, shape or form, right,
(03:08):
other than to shut down and pull back and resist.
And so how do we find that sweet spot, yeah,
where we're helping them grow without adding trauma right into
this regulation and all of those things.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Yeah, I think the first step is really understanding our
individual child, right, So you have to understand your child,
and you have to understand what they can tolerate what
they can't. And I would say, you know, so it's
learning to be more of a strategic parent, right because
(03:46):
you know, typically with a lot of just sort of
good enough parenting, it's like, well, with good enough parenting,
you might push a kid and push them too far
and then they get upset. But within some kids, as
you're saying, they're just going to completely fall apart. And
so it's really teeming with your child, so they know,
(04:07):
and it's creating an environment in your house or you know,
I worked in the school system for years two in
a classroom where a child knows that they are going
to be heard and understood and you have that relationship
with them, I think that is a big key.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
So there has to be trust there, right to bridge
that gap between what they're comfortable with and them being
willing to go outside of their comfort zone a little, right.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
For sure. For sure, there has to be trust because
in the parent therapy you're really trying to shape that
environment and create that trust. There's this quote. I love
this quote, but it's that a child's behavior is irrelevant
until the environment is able to effectively support progress. So
(04:55):
it's kind of getting to what you were just talking
about in turns of of how do I create that trust?
Because as you know, I always say, having kids makes
you look in the mirror at yourself as a parent, right,
because you see yourself reacting to your child in ways
like I cannot believe I just said that to my kid,
(05:16):
or I cannot believe I, you know, yelled and screamed,
or you know. And I think that's where you know,
parents will come into therapy and they're trying to figure out,
like how do I control my own my own emotions,
what do I need to do because that can break
down the trust we were just talking about. Yeah, and
you know, so we find that parents kind of fall
(05:38):
onto you know, we're talking about that sweet spot, right.
So there's parents that are really protective and they might
not want to push enough and they're kind of walking
on eggshells in their house. And then their parents on
the other side of the spectrum might be more demanding
and they maybe they push too much for their child.
(05:59):
And we're trying to find that right in the center,
right in the middle spot, and you know, there's some
trial and error obviously to it. I think one of
the biggest steps is really learning how to sort of
control your own emotions, because when you're doing that, you're
now modeling for your child how to control their emotions.
(06:19):
And that's extremely hard to do, as you know with
any kid, but with a kid that needs extra supports.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, when we're disregulated, we can't help a kid regulate.
You know, if you have a dysregulated kid and a
disregulated adult, there's not going to be any regulation there
until somebody walks away and is able to get regulated exactly.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
So oftentimes that's a big piece of the puzzle. The
parent work Yeah, because as you become disregulated, or as
the child becomes disregulated, you know, you lose rationality, you
can't think straight. You're in your Olympics system, which is
that emotional part of the brain. Yeah, and so what
(07:02):
you do as a parent in that place is going
to now model for your child. So, you know, it's
sometimes teaching parents' skills how to sometimes pull back if
they're starting to get angry, frustrated, falling apart. I've had
some parents where I've had to teach them to just
walk away. And it's so hard to do, you know.
(07:24):
I mean, here, I teach this, and then I go
home and I I see the same thing.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Right, We're all human. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, that's
I think. You know, A big turning point for me
and my own parenting was figuring out that I was
the one who needed to be in control, not in
a controlling way, but I could control myself. And that's
where I had to start. And I had to learn
(07:51):
how to show up with the energy and the mindset
that was actually going to be helpful to my kid.
And if I was just upset because they were up,
that that's not helpful. It's not going to change anything.
As you were talking, the word consistency came to me. Yeah,
thinking that consistency is going to be really important to
(08:13):
not only build drust, but to also build willingness to
be challenged.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Would you agree with that?
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah, I would say you do need consistency. But I'll
tell you sometimes I have parents that come in and
they get like almost caught in this trap about the
word consistency, because it's like, no, he has to be punished,
he needs to be punished here.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
We have to be.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Consistent, you know. And so I like the word a
consistency is good. But I do like the word predictability predictable, yeah,
because predictability lowers anxiety, and a lot of times it's
where you are in the process. Sometimes with what we
call these super censor kids, these kids that you know,
(08:56):
they have really strong feelings and they take a long
time to calm down. And what can start to happen
is that these kids can learn from the outside environment
and from sometimes in the home that their feelings and
their thoughts don't make sense, that it is something wrong
with them. And the idea is you don't make sense,
(09:19):
and so you get this almost over exaggerated reaction sometimes
to things right, So when creating that balance, we're trying
to let them know that they do make sense given
who they are. Given you know, who they are as
an individual person in the environment that they come from.
You can always say that somebody's feelings make sense. You
(09:41):
don't necessarily have to agree with somebody's feeling, but if
you put yourself in somebody else's shoes, you know, given
their background and their history, you'll see that their feeling
does make sense. So you can always validate a feeling.
And I think we teach parents a lot of skills
about valid because number one, when a child is starting
(10:04):
to get disregulated, sometimes you can catch them with some
validation and it can kind of pull them back. Not always,
you know, if it gets too high and they lose
too much rationality, then you know, sometimes you're just you know,
speaking to them is you know you're not going to
get anywhere at that point. But so yeah, I mean,
you're talking about consistency and you're talking about predictability. I
(10:26):
just think it's letting them know that I am going
to be in your corner. When I have one of
my moments, I go back to my kids and I
have three boys at home, and you know, I apologize
to them, right because I'm modeling for them how to
be and how to create a relationship. So all those
(10:46):
things are really important. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
And predictability in the ways that you challenge and how
much you challenge maybe, yeah, right, So like if I
kind of if I'm not challenging my kid and then
suddenly I'm really pushing, yeah, it's not going to work right, right.
But if I'm more consistently just really tiny challenges.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah, Like I like that idea of sometimes we'll do
a hierarchy of what's hard for kids, you know, from
one to ten, so ten being you know, the hardest
and one being you know a little bit easier, and
you can work your way kind of up that hierarchy
in terms of trying to challenge them because you know,
like like I said, we need those challenges, you know,
(11:32):
to grow to learn. I mean, so I'll often say
to kids about this idea. I want my kids to
learn how to struggle, right, they need to know what
that feels like and that they can get through that feeling,
not avoid the feeling, not push it away, but get
through the feeling. So you know, I'll say to my
(11:54):
kids sometimes about this idea of struggling. For example, like
if I say to you, okay, what's one plus one
and you say, well, okay, two, what's two plus one? Three? Okay?
How are you doing? How you are you learning something?
It's like, no, you're not learning anything because you're not struggling. So,
like I said at the beginning, you've got to be
(12:15):
right on that edge to grow to actually get those
neurons to connect. They connect through struggle. So sometimes we'll push,
and you know, every day is a different day. One
day that worked, one day it didn't. You know, you're
trying to read your child. You're trying to see where
he or she is, and you're trying to see how
(12:37):
much you can push. We try to come up with
plans with kids. Kids don't always see sort of the
bigger picture like why do I need to do this? Right?
Why am I this doesn't feel good? So I'm not
going to do it? Yep kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Right, Yep, been there, done that.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Yeah, they don't see that bigger picture of down the road.
How if they can struggle and get through something that
then on the other side it's like, oh, okay, I
learned to do something. So, for example, a lot of
times in therapy, I'll talk to the kids about the
idea when I was when I was about three years old,
(13:17):
I thought there was a monster under my bed, right,
pretty common, pretty common thing. I think a lot of
therapists use as an example. And if you think about that,
I mean what I did was I ran to my
parents' room and I wanted to sleep in their bed, right,
So I did that. I did that a number of times.
(13:37):
But if you think about that, it's like, in the
short term that worked, my anxiety went down, which is
what I was looking for, right, But in the long term,
I didn't learn anything. I didn't grow. So what I
ended up learning to do as a three year old,
of course, my dad showed me that underneath the bed. Look,
(14:00):
there's nothing under the bed, and my kid logic would
kick in and be like, well, that's because the monster
moved to the closet because my dad's in the room
kind of thing, right, So what I eventually had to
learn to do was be in that dark room and
expose myself to be in that dark room, and my
(14:22):
anxiety went up and it rose, and then over time
nothing bad happened. It started to come down. I started
to get used to the feeling. I started to habituate
to the feeling. Yeah, that's an important thing to learn
to do, because you start to teach a child that
(14:44):
they can get through difficult feelings. And I think sometimes
we were taught. I mentioned, you know, there's sometimes protective
parents and demanding parents. Sometimes a protective parent won't push
enough and allow their child to feel a feeling, You
to feel that feeling. I just want you to be happy, ye, right,
(15:05):
and that demanding parents like what do you you know,
get in there, there's nothing, there's nothing in there, right,
totally invalidating my feelings of fear. You know, get in there,
there's nothing in there, you know, Stop being a whimp.
I guess that would be sort of the extreme version, right.
So I'd say that sweet spot is having that conversation,
(15:27):
having a trust saying we're going to try to go
into this dark room, and have you learned to get
used to this? You can do it right, you know.
So the first night my anxiety goes up, nothing happens,
it starts to come down. My understanding of this is
that your brain just actually starts to get bored. It
gets bored, with the idea that there's something you know,
(15:51):
and you know there's no monster into the bed. Now,
of course, that whole system, that whole anxiety system is
set up. You know, if there is danger that we
would fight, flight or freeze get out of there, right. Yeah,
So that's I think that's an invaluable lesson when you
learn that as a young kid that you can hang
(16:12):
in and get through a feeling and that your parents
are there to back you up and validate you and
sometimes push you and listen to you. And I think
that's really how you find the sweet spot.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Experiencing things go well, whire's our brain, you know, We're
always making these neural connections, right, and so yeah, if
we are super worried, that keeps happening in those situations.
But if we can experience that we can get through
that thing and that the worst isn't going to happen
like we fear, then the next time it's easier. I
(16:59):
having die and I've really had to push myself over
the years, and and you know, I was terrified to
give a talk in front of people in person, and
finally I was like, you know what, I really want
to do this. I'm going to do it, and I
thought I was going to die. Yes, Like I literally
thought it was going to kill me waiting for my turn.
(17:21):
But then after I was like, oh, I can say
yes to this next time. This is no big deal.
Like I didn't die, I didn't make a fool of myself,
you know. And like I a couple of years ago
had surgery for the first time, I was terrified, exactly terrified.
Now I probably have to have surgery again. I just
(17:42):
found out, and I'm like, Okay, I can do that.
Like I'm not freaked out. And if we can give
our kids the same experiences on a smaller scale, given.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
You know, that's it.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
It's going to change them.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
That's it. Yeah. You know, like I said, you've got
to know your own child and trying to think more strategically.
You know, so kids sometimes will create reinforcers because a
kid doesn't think it that bigger picture, longer term, right,
Like I was saying, like, if I can get you know,
little Chris at age three to go into this dark room, eventually,
(18:17):
he's not going to be afraid of the dark. He's
going to be able to get in there himself. You know,
I didn't think that as a three year old, I
wouldn't have understood that. I just knew that my dad
believed in me, and that he believed I could go
in there. You know, that's a huge, a huge thing.
So one thing I wanted to talk to you about.
(18:39):
It's just something I was thinking of. You know, they've
done a lot of research on happiness, right, there's just
happiness research out there, and there is There was an
article in the Atlantic. I can't remember who had written it,
but they were talking about happiness. They were talking about
least you know, two types of happiness that you know.
(19:00):
That first kind of happiness is that sort of gratification
kind of you know, this tastes good, this feels good
kind of happiness. Right, that's all part of what's called
the limbic system, that emotional center kind of happiness. It's
very short term, it's very you know, if it feels good,
(19:23):
do it. If it doesn't feel good, don't do it.
That's where a lot of our kids are, right and
we get that wall. The second type of happiness they
were discussing was, I mean, for a lack of a
better word, this idea of like fulfillment, this idea that
it's like building something. It's like climbing that mountain. When
(19:45):
you like climb a mountain, you know, there's parts that
you're really enjoying. There's parts that are really hard, there's
parts that are painful. You know, there's parts that are painful.
But you learn through that type of filment type of happiness,
that I can tolerate pain, that I can get through
pain because it's more future oriented. I can see past
(20:08):
that and I can see the bigger picture, and I
want to get to the top of this mountain.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
You have that goal in front of you.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
You have that goal, and when you have a goal,
oftentimes you know you can tolerate some pain because you
know there's something on the other side. You know that
other type of gratification is like that right now, short term,
I want it, and I think sometimes our goal. You know,
(20:35):
I'll hear people talk about, well, I want my kid
to be happy. I want my child to be happy,
and it's like, well, you know, what kind of happiness
are we talking about? And when I explain it, they think, oh, yeah,
I want that more fulfillment type happiness. Okay, so then
we've got to do this work, right, yeah, because otherwise
you can just give people, you know, hey, yeah, here,
(20:56):
here's some candy, and we're gonna you can play, you know,
ten hours of video games, you know, and the idea
of when you're thinking about this fulfillment, this brings into
the idea that sometimes we need to sacrifice, you know,
when you when we sacrifice, we're saying that we're willing
(21:16):
to do something we don't like right now because there's
going to be a payoff in the future. Right Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Yeah, Growth like just keeps coming to my mind. Growth, growth, growth,
Like we have to have difficulty in order to grow.
But I don't feel like we can reach real deep
fulfillment without that, you know, without that painful part that
we did it anyway.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
I don't know how you do it without some pain involved.
And yeah, part of what you're learning to do is
tolerate pain and have a belief that you can tolerate pain.
I could get through this because I got through this
other thing, just like you said, I got through this
(22:08):
surgery before I can do this again, right, Yeah, less unknown,
that's right, it's less unknown. We've faced the monster under
the bed.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Yeah, he wasn't so scary, he wasn't.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Yeah, that's something that the kids start to learn in
therapy with me, is that they learn after they do
some of this, that like, it's not as bad as
I thought. Oftentimes.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Sometimes, look, sometimes things do go wrong, right, Yeah. Sometimes
sometimes it's worse. Sometimes it's worse. But oftentimes with some
of the things we're trying to get the kids to
deal with, you know, going to school or monster under
the bed, It's like I remember joining a new soccer
team as a kid. You know, everybody on my old
(22:51):
soccer team had left, they went to play baseball in
other sports. I think I was like in third grade maybe,
and then the new team, and I was like, oh
my god, what if they don't like me? What if
I'm not good enough? What if I'm like all that? Right,
all the thoughts are spinning in there, and you know,
you can work on those thoughts. But when I went,
I saw, oh, it's not as bad as I thought,
(23:13):
and these kids are nice and you know they're okay,
but I'm right in there.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
With them kind of thing, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, And so it's trying to find those places.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Now.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
I'll say with sometimes kids with autism, we do have
to also be protective too, right, probably more so because
I'm not going to send my child into something that
I know is sort of a setup for them.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
We have to be open to giving them opportunities for success. Right.
But within that, I think is the ability to know
when it just isn't a good fit and that's okay,
that there isn't really maybe a past to success and
it might just be because our kid is wholly disinterested.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Right.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
It doesn't have to be that they can, but that
they just don't want to. And yeah, sometimes we have
to honor that.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yeah, and it's hard to know, you know, some of
our guys will just say that every time, like they
won't get out of the house, you know. So then
we're trying to sort of negotiate these things, and sometimes
we're setting up behavior plans and ways of trying to
move things forward because they're only thinking that very short term.
They're in that sort of limbic system gratification place and
(24:25):
it feels good, do it. If it doesn't feel good,
don't do it. We're trying to get them to that
more fulfilling and learning. Wow, I can tolerate some pain.
I can get through. So there's the balance, and it's
very tough with our supersensor kids that are struggle with this, right,
and so it's not easy. I mean, I'm learning stuff
(24:49):
all the time. So wrath boundin associates where I work
is really known for doing dialectical behavior of therapy. So
now I'm learning DBTC, which is the parent I've sort
of had my own sort of parent stuff I do.
But I'm adding to my toolbox. And you just keep
adding to your toolbox, right, you just keep adding to it.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Yeah, And we can take small steps.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Where you can take small steps, and that's the key
is sometimes taking that small step and then you know,
recognizing that and having that relationship. But you know, if
I have a meltdown as a parent and I you know,
justify it, I think sometimes that breaks down the relationship
for some kids that are already you know, more set
(25:32):
up to see and feel rejection. As I said, the
messages they're already getting is often you don't make sense. Yeah,
So that's why I have to be very careful. You know,
many kids can tolerate a lot of the mistakes that
parents make, right, But with our super sensor kids and
kids on the Office of Spectrum, I think sometimes, you know,
(25:53):
it takes a little bit more, which is why people
come to our practice to learn these skipples, to get
some help with it. It's very difficult and sometimes you
can't see the forest of the trees. You're just stun
So you need somebody who can see that bigger picture
and and help you.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
It's enormously helpful. Yeah, So it sounds like validation, predictability,
building trust, taking small steps, noticing when our kids do
hard things. Those are kind of the keys here to
finding that just right balance.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Yeah, I think so. I think those are a lot
of the pieces. And as things unfold, it's having a
trusted person that you know you can team with. Whether
that's you know, a therapist, sometimes it's you know, just parents.
You know, my wife and I we parent together and
we sometimes I make a mistake and I've got to
take a step back and yeah sometimes I've got to
(26:49):
go back and apologize or vice versa. You know, it's
a very difficult thing. And we get the kids. We
get we get the kids, we get.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yes, and we learned from them though too, Like I'm
a different person because of the kids that I got.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Yeah, Like I said, parenting, it makes you look at
in the mirror. It's like look you have to look
in the mirror at yourself so that you can create
an environment for your child. And yeah, yeah, you know.
I mean my youngest son, when he was five years old,
had a brain tumor in his fairbellum, so he had surgery,
(27:28):
like right before kindergarten. He's seventeen now, he's doing very well.
He's super great kid. But you know, we had a
lot of challenges, right, and he had a lot of
emotionality and we had to work through that. I've always
worked with other people's kids and now you're sort of like,
oh my gosh, so I've lived it too, right, Yeah,
(27:50):
And I think that helps me connect with parents, helps
me connect with kids absolutely, having worked in school systems
and with my own child, and so everybody has a story, right,
so for sure.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Yeah, and there's value in every story. There's value, there's
lived experience, there's emotion, there's you know, the stories are
what connect us in really beautiful ways.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Yeah, and what we need is more connection, right, We're
being disconnected all the time.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Yeah. I think it starts with connection.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
The kids are disconnected out there. That's one of the
problems that we're having is they're disconnected. We've got to
connect them. We have to be that home base for them,
a place that they can feel safe and comfortable and
validated and all the things you named. And we have
to create that because if we model anger and then
(28:45):
we wonder why they're angry. You know, you've got to
look at yourself too. It's not about blaming parents, because
it's you know, you can always understand the feeling. Yeah,
it makes sense the anger that a parent might have,
of course, but have to if they're going to teach
their child and create this environment, they have to step
up before their child steps up. And sometimes, you know,
(29:08):
I run into the dynamic where it's like the child
needs to step up. I've had it where children have
stepped up before parents have stepped up, and it's like, yeah, okay,
the child's learning all these skills and all these things,
and that can get messy. That can get really messy.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
So yeah, it can be really difficult. Will you let
everybody know where to find you online to learn more
from you, to potentially work with you.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
You can reach out to me. I guess through my
email would be a good sources. It's C Taylor LCSWC
at gmail dot com. Our practice is Rathbone and associates
from Bethesda. We have an office in Bethesda and Rockville, Maryland,
(29:52):
which you can always email me. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Perfect I'll link that up in the show notes and
anything else that I have in relation to this episode.
You can find those at Parenting ADHD and Autism dot
com Slash three one six for episode three sixteen. It's
been such an eye opening conversation, Chris. I'm so thankful
that you've given us some of your time and your
experience and your wisdom, and I know that parents are
(30:18):
going to learn and grow as they listen.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Now. I appreciate it. It's been awesome, and I love your
podcasts and your Your website is amazing, so you have
a lot of resources for parents.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
I'm happy to be a part of it.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Fantastic. I will see everybody on the next episode. Take
good care. Thanks for joining me on the Beautifully Complex podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share, and
don't forget to check out my online courses and parent
coaching at PARENTINGADHD and Autism dot com and at the
Behavior Revolution dot com.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
M
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