December 3, 2025 • 32 mins
There’s a moment so many of us experience standing in the kitchen, staring at the backpack explosion on the floor, the socks in the hallway, the half-finished bowl of cereal on the table and wondering why our kids can’t seem to follow through. It’s not laziness. It’s not defiance. It’s executive function. And for our neurodivergent kids, especially those with ADHD, those invisible skills we rely on to get through the day can feel like climbing a mountain without a map.
In this episode, I’m joined by two members of The Childhood Collective, Mallory Yee and Katie Severson — clinicians, moms, and deeply empathetic guides who truly “live it.” Together, we break down what executive functioning actually is (spoiler: it’s your brain’s internal GPS), why so many of our kids struggle with tasks that seem “easy,” and how we can shift from doing everything for our kids to doing things with them in realistic, sustainable ways.
We talk about everyday EF supports like creating “homes” for items, teaching kids to close their own loops, using declarative language, and narrating our internal problem-solving so they learn to build theirs. Katie and Mallory share generously from both their clinical lens and their lived experience, reminding us that nothing is wrong with our kids… their brains just need time, scaffolding, and connection.
This conversation is hopeful, practical, and validating, especially if you’ve ever wondered why your child can’t “just get ready” or why every day feels like a string of side quests.
Tune in for simple strategies, compassionate reframes, and support that meets you right where you are.
Press play and let’s walk this path together.
You can find additional resources at parentingadhdandautism.com and Regulated Kids.com — because it’s not just about the struggles, it’s about progress, one step at a time.
Show notes and more resources at parentingadhdandautism.com/337
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/beautifully-complex--6137613/support.
In this episode, I’m joined by two members of The Childhood Collective, Mallory Yee and Katie Severson — clinicians, moms, and deeply empathetic guides who truly “live it.” Together, we break down what executive functioning actually is (spoiler: it’s your brain’s internal GPS), why so many of our kids struggle with tasks that seem “easy,” and how we can shift from doing everything for our kids to doing things with them in realistic, sustainable ways.
We talk about everyday EF supports like creating “homes” for items, teaching kids to close their own loops, using declarative language, and narrating our internal problem-solving so they learn to build theirs. Katie and Mallory share generously from both their clinical lens and their lived experience, reminding us that nothing is wrong with our kids… their brains just need time, scaffolding, and connection.
This conversation is hopeful, practical, and validating, especially if you’ve ever wondered why your child can’t “just get ready” or why every day feels like a string of side quests.
Tune in for simple strategies, compassionate reframes, and support that meets you right where you are.
Press play and let’s walk this path together.
You can find additional resources at parentingadhdandautism.com and Regulated Kids.com — because it’s not just about the struggles, it’s about progress, one step at a time.
Show notes and more resources at parentingadhdandautism.com/337
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/beautifully-complex--6137613/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
So I think this is a pattern that parents fall into.
They're constantly closing loops for their kids. Like I said,
they are the ones that are putting the dirty clothes
off the floor into the hamper. They're the ones that
are taking the dishes from the table to the sink.
And so the more we're just accommodating our kids in
that way and closing all the loops for them, we're
(00:21):
not giving them the opportunity to practice closing that loop.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Welcome to Beautifully Complex, where we unpack what it really
means to parent neurodivergent kids with dignity and clarity. I'm
Penny Williams, and I know firsthand how tough and transformative
this journey can be. Let's dive in and discover how
to raise regulated, resilient, beautifully complex kids together. Oh and
(00:48):
if you want more support, join our free community at
hub dot beautifully complex dot life. Welcome back to Beautifully Complex,
every one. I'm really excited today to have part of
the Childhood Collective with me Katie Severson and Malory Yee,
(01:09):
and we're going to talk about executive function and how
to really weave in some strategies into day to day life.
Because I think that's where we really see problems, right,
That's where kids with ADHD, kids with autism, if they
have also executive function challenges, this is where they get
tripped up, is the little things that we're asking them
(01:31):
to do day to day. And I've had so many
parents say, well, my kids eight, they ought to be
able to get dressed by themselves. My kids tend they
should be able to get through the morning without me hovering, right,
But as the three of us know, that's not always
the case. And so I'm glad we're going to jump
in and offer some insights and some strategies. Will you
(01:53):
all start by introducing yourselves so let everybody know who
you are and what you do.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Sure, so, thank you so so much for having us
on Penny. My name is Mallory Ye. I'm one third
of the Childhood Collective. I'm a licensed child psychologist. I
have training in school psychology. I've done work in the schools,
I've done work in pediatricians' offices. I've done work in
private practice doing therapy but also evaluations for children with ADHD,
(02:19):
autism and other common developmental concerns. But now doing the
Childhood Collective along with Katie and Laurie.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Yeah, and I'm Katie Severson. I'm a speech language pathologist
and similar to mal I, had worked in private practice.
We all kind of overlapped at one point in private
practice doing assessment. And the other third of the Childhood
Collective is doctor Lori Long, another child psychologist, and she
actually had the idea to come together and create resources
(02:48):
for families who are getting that new ADHD diagnosis because
as you might know, you know, you get the diagnosis
of something like autism, and there tends to be this
kind of long checklist like here's all the boxes that
you needed, and with ADHD, which is very impactful to
families lives. Often parents are really not given a ton
of tools. Maybe they're suggested to take medication or try that,
(03:10):
but there's not a ton beyond that for parents. And
we definitely know the value and power of medication, but
also parent behavior training and supporting families kind of from
the ground up at home is a huge piece of it.
And so we started providing resources for the community about
gosh five six years ago now, and it's kind of
(03:31):
evolved into a lot of things. You know, we have
courses and a blog and podcast and all kinds of things.
But we also recently added a course to help families
who are navigating ADHD at school, and that's another piece
of our kind of combined expertise and just really a
lot of times kids with ADHD, their main struggles aren't
the academic skills as much as the executive functions at school.
(03:54):
So I would say, if we had one drum, it's
definitely executive functioning and helping families sort of figure this
out both in the home and school settings, and that's
what we're most passionate about.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Yeah, And I would say another thing is we're also
all living this. Yes, we have a lot of us,
you know, got our degrees before we realize we were
living it over before we were parents. So now we
kind of we we try to really bring our professional expertise,
but through the lens of moms who some of us
have ADHD ourselves. We all have ADHD in our homes
(04:27):
in some way. Most of us are raising kids with ADHD.
So we joke sometimes we laugh about the recommendations that
we used to give to parents before you were parents,
Like I can't I can't believe I used to tell
parents to do that because I would never, and I'm
definitely not doing that in my own home. So we
definitely try to bring this balance between our professional lives
(04:50):
and then actually living it. What's going on in our homes,
what's realistic, what works, and what feels good.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah. Yeah, And it's so different to get advice from
so who lives it versus somebody who just learned it right,
and it makes all the difference. And you were talking
about how when kids get diagnosed with ADHD, there's very
little information. You know, my son was diagnosed with ADHD first,
and it was two thousand and eight, and there literally
(05:17):
was nothing. There was Attitude magazine and Halliwell had Driven
to Distraction book, and I think that was really it,
and it's a big part of the reason why I
ended up doing this work. But we had to figure
it out on our own, and nobody said, Hey, there's
this thing called executive function and here's what it is,
and this is how it's probably impacting all of these
(05:39):
things that you're seeing as behavior issues, they're actually you know,
underlying skilled deficits or different wiring. So do you want
to start by letting everybody know exactly what we mean
when we say executive function for anybody who hasn't heard
of it yet.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Absolutely, yeah, I love this question. And you know, I
think we do hear more and more about executive functions,
but a lot of people, like you mentioned, don't really
know exactly what that means. And so one sort of
simple analogy we like to use is that the executive
functions are kind of like the GPS in our brain.
And so I'm getting in my car and I have
a destination in my mind, an endpoint or a goal,
(06:19):
and executive function helps me to set that goal. Maybe
I'm going to clean the kitchen or bake a cake. Right,
But then with the GPS in our car, it really
quickly calculates the most efficient way to get there, and
what are the steps, what are the roads you're going
to go on, where you're going to turn, And then
as you start to drive, the GPS tells you, oh,
you know what, there's a roadblock up here, or there's construction.
(06:42):
We need to go around this. And similarly, in our brains,
the executive functions help us to figure out the fastest,
most efficient way to clean the kitchen. Oh no, that's
not going to work. The dishwasher is full, and I
forgot to run it, So I need a new plan
to getting these dishes clean. And one of the pieces
that we see with our kids a lot of times
that is such an important executive function is that inhibition
(07:04):
piece where you can easily become Oh, I'm cleaning the
kitchen and I'm going to throw this towel in the laundry,
and then I realized I didn't do the laundry, and
I'm kind of on this little side quest now over here,
and that happens so quickly. And one of the ways
that we can support our kids is building up those
executive functioning skills to make a plan and figure out
(07:25):
how to implement it and how to kind of stop
themselves from side quests. Well, you love side quests, but
it really can rob you of your time and not
allow you to get to your goal. And so that's
what we're thinking about when we talk about the executive functions.
And I think it's really important for parents to understand
that all kids are developing their executive functions up through
(07:46):
the mid twenties. So if your child is struggling in
this area, they're not alone in that. But we do
know that kids with ADHD are often delayed about thirty
percent in their executive functions compared to their peers. So
you have, you know, a nine year old, they might
have executive functioning skills that are more consistent with a
six year old. And we love that reframe for parents
(08:08):
because to your example about getting dressed, it's not that
your child is so naughty and doesn't care and doesn't
love you and you're a terrible parent, right, And we
can go down these kind of rabbit holes, but really
when we reframe it and we say, well, yeah, he
knows how to put his shoes on, he knows how
to put his pants on and button his zipper, you know,
zip his zipper, button his buttons. But what's really happening
(08:29):
often below the surface is an issue with the executive
functioning getting started, staying on task, not losing focus. And again,
when we reframe it, we can say, oh, okay, so
it actually has to do with how his brain is developing,
and it really helps us that in and of itself
doesn't actually change the challenge, but it really changes how
(08:49):
we view it.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Yeah, I love the term side quest. I had many
this morning. Yes I don't have ADHD, but I like
all the things that to be done. Like I think
anybody can relate to having a lot on your plate
and getting distracted trying to manage multiple things at one time,
(09:12):
and you end up somewhere else entirely. And I think
that's kind of a regular experience for a lot of
our kids with ADHD. How do we then help them,
How do we help them to build the skills to navigate,
because they do want to do it, as you were
just saying, Katie, they do want to please us, They
(09:34):
want to participate like any other kid would write like.
They see the difference, and they would like to be successful.
So how do we bridge that gap.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
I think one of the biggest things to keep in
mind is what we talk about as making the invisible visible.
So these executive function strategies are kind of nebulous and
hard to define, and a lot of times we're talking
about things that are not concrete, and kids with ADHD,
especially live in the here and now, and if it's
(10:06):
not like right in front of me, it doesn't exist.
These things that are a little bit more abstract, more invisible,
they have a hard time acting on it when it's
there in the moment. But I think this is a
huge challenge for parents at home. I'm thinking specifically of
one specific example, So, how do we support kids at
home with executive function? Right, if you're parenting a child
(10:27):
with ADHD, this may sound familiar. Loops are constantly being
left unclosed at home. There's stuff everywhere. There's you know,
they get home from school, they pull off all their
clothes and it's littering the ground. They unpack their backpack
and everything's on the counter. There's stuff everywhere. They're not
closing loops, they're not finishing the task, they're starting tasks,
(10:50):
leaving things unfinished, and parents get in a position of
being really frustrated because they're like, I'm constantly closing your loop.
I'm the one that's picking up your laundry and putting
it in the hamper. I'm the one that's putting your
folder in your lunch box back in your backpack and
hanging the backpack up where it belongs. So I think
this is twofold here. One we need to give everything
a home. So this is something that we can do
(11:12):
as parents, is set up the environment for our kids
where everything has a place, because if it doesn't have
a home, if it doesn't have a place, well it's
going to be anywhere but where it's supposed to be right.
So one way that we can help our child with
this executive function at home of like being more organized,
is making sure everything has a home and your child
(11:34):
knows where that home is. You might even label it again,
making that invisible a little bit more visible for them,
or maybe even take a picture of what it looks
like when that thing is in its home. So it
takes this invisible, nebulous concept and makes it very concrete
for your child. And again, we're meeting them where they're at.
We're meeting them where their skill level is with this
(11:55):
at the moment. So one piece is making sure that
everything has a home, and the other piece is making
sure that you're helping your child close their loops and
you're not closing all of the loops for them. So
I think this is a pattern that parents fall into.
They're constantly closing loops for their kids. Like I said,
(12:16):
they're the ones that are putting the dirty clothes off
the floor into the hamper. They're the ones that are
taking the dishes from the table to the sink. And
so the more we're just accommodating our kids in that
way and closing all the loops for them, we're not
giving them the opportunity to practice closing that loop. So
I think that's one more way that we can kind
(12:37):
of grow that executive function support at home for our kids,
kind of meet them where they are, making sure we're
not doing all of this for them. It's a beautiful balance.
We've got to meet kids where they are, but we
also have to have expectations for them and we have
to be building these skills at the same time.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
And I think on that same note, when you're thinking
about this, like if you're trying to apply this to
your own life and you're like, Okay, the main issue
I'll speak to my own house is we recently moved
and we have kind of this mudroom area, but there's
not really like a clear system for the mudroom yet.
So everything when the kids walk in through the garage
door gets dropped on the ground and we're talking like backpacks,
(13:12):
water bottles, lunchboxes, soccer cleats, just whatever it is. And
then the next person to come through gets really irritated.
It's me. I'm the person that comes through, like what
am I supposed to do with all this stuff here?
And I start moving it and you know, putting it away.
And so this is a real life working example for
me where I'm talking with my kids and we're saying, Okay,
what do we need to do to make this mudroom
(13:34):
work for us? And literally bringing our kids along on
that journey. That's such a huge piece of executive functioning
is that for parents? And you mentioned this two penny, Like,
we have so much on our plates, right, if it's
back to school season, we have so many things to
keep track of, it's if it's the holiday season, we're
all like running around like little elves. There's so much
that we're in charge of, and we do it in
our minds and it really is quote invisible to our kids, right,
(13:57):
they don't see it, and so same with us. That
I might design that's so cute, and I found it
on Pinterest and it looked really good, and I went
to the store and I got the hooks. But now
my kids are not invested in that. They don't have
buy in, They don't really understand that system. And maybe
even in my excitement to imitate Pinterest, I stuck the hooks,
you know, four and a half feet off the ground,
and my kids can't even reach that high. So it's
(14:20):
taking the time and really being cognizant. And I think, again,
we just live in a world where we have so
much that we need to get done in a day.
It's almost impossible, truly, But slowing down and saying, okay,
what is the problem, Like why is it such a
hard thing for you to get your socks? You know,
your shoes are over here on this little shelf, but
we can't get socks. And they'll say, you know, okay,
(14:41):
it's because my shoes or my socks are over in
my dresser in my bedroom. So then we can problem
solve that and be like, okay, what do we need
to do. Let's get a basket. Maybe it's not a
cute basket. Let's just grab a basket, put all the
socks right next to the shoes. Or we have backpacks.
How many bags do we need to hang up? You
know we have soccer and the and two backpacks. Okay,
(15:01):
so five hooks, six hooks? Where should we put them?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Here?
Speaker 3 (15:05):
You show me how high up you want your hook
to be. And again, we're bringing our kids along in
this process, and parents don't realize it because it's just
it's something that we automatically do, and we automatically problem solve.
We circumvent problems all day long. We're like professional fixers. Okay,
But when we can bring our kids into it, it's
one teaching them how to do it for themselves, which
(15:27):
is the ultimate goal, and it's also helping a lot
with that buy in piece because they feel like they
got a special job in that. And I will say
one encouraging thing if you're listening and you're like, yeah,
I just do not think that we can have homes
for everything, and I want to encourage you that in
my family everyone has ADHD and it really does help
(15:48):
us over time. Like it is work. It took me
a very long time to teach my kids. Okay, The
iPads and the chargers always go in this spot and
it's constant repetition. This is where we really get into
teaching our kids and rewarding them when they're doing a
great job and praising them. But it is a very slow,
uphill project. And at the same time, you're investing time somewhere.
(16:11):
You're either investing time in teaching them where to put
it and helping them learn, or you're investing time in
searching for it. Or buying a new one because you
couldn't find it. So what I've found in my own family,
and I say this as a person who really struggles
with a lot of these things, is if we can
find those places and assign them and everybody knows, and
then we just practice the heck out of it, it
(16:32):
really does save us a lot of time and kind
of mental load in the long run. So if you're
listening and you're like, there's no way, just pick one thing,
one or two things to start. Maybe it's lunchboxes or keys.
Keys were always getting lost, or the remote. The remote
gets lost in our house still, but there is a
spot for the remote and anyone who picks it up
(16:52):
should know this is where it goes. So maybe just
starting small is one way to make it a little
bit more manage.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Yeah, you can always bring a professional into help too,
Like if you really struggle with organization yourself, you can
hire someone to help you, maybe room by room, or
just a few ideas at a time. I'm definitely a
(17:25):
loop closer. I love this terminology. I never thought about
it that way. And my kid is twenty three now
and he still leaves all his loops open everywhere but
I've learned finally to not be the loop closer anymore.
And I bring him in and I just say, take
a look at the kitchen counters and see what you
(17:47):
think you know, and really trying to put that on
him to figure out. But for years I was doing
everything because it was easier and it took less time
and when I didn't yet understand, And is what Katie
was just describing that I can frontload some time and
it's gonna save me later and it's gonna really build
(18:09):
the skills that I want my kids to have. If
I do it for them, they're not learning anything.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yeah, And I think the hard part about not letting
our kids close their own loop is then they never
get the satisfaction of finishing the task. So then they
never get that like feel good, like oh I did that,
or like that looks really nice, or it feels good
when I've put all my things where they belong. They
don't ever get to like access that internal reinforcement, that
(18:35):
satisfaction from following something from start to finish. And guess what,
that makes it harder to even start things. If you're
not getting the satisfaction of finishing things, it just it spirals,
and then you know, loops are constantly being left open,
and I, Penny, just like you, I have to always
stop myself and say, I know the easy route right
now is to put the clothes in the hamper. That's
(18:57):
the easiest thing to do in this moment, but I
know that's not going to serve my family in the
long run, and so it is kind of taking the
temporary discomfort with the idea that the long term payout
will be there. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
And on that same note, I think there's a ton
of value in the idea of doing it together. You know.
I think we have this idea of like either I'm
going to close the loop or they're going to close
the loop, and when that's not happening, it does start
to build a lot of resentment and maybe even frustration
some shame, like oh man, I couldn't teach my kid
how to do this. But when we do things together,
(19:31):
that is a game changer. So my daughter just turned
eleven and she wanted to redo her room, redecorate it
as all eleven year old. She's like, I just have
a new personality now that I'm eleven, and I just
really need my room to reflect I'm like, okay, tell
me about your personality.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
I love to hear about this.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
But you know, yeah, but in that case, I think
about all the loops that go into a project like that. Right,
we started with going through this was the boring stuff.
She was not impressed at all by me. But I'm saying, Okay,
we need to go through your drawers. We need to
get rid of clothes that you don't wear anymore. They're
too small, too short. Let's give them to your cousin,
and let's think about and draw a plan before we
(20:09):
just buy a bunch of furniture. Where do you want
your things? We had a big chair in her room
and there really wasn't room for that, so we had
to think about that, like where's your cozy space going
to be? These kind of things. Again, this is all
building executive functioning. But to Mallory's point, when we got
done with that room, and it took us a few
weekends and a lot of work, we painted. It was
(20:29):
an overhaul, but she felt so good and she's still
it's been a couple months now and she still will
say to me, I just.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Love my room.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
I love it, and I've done my kids' rooms. Right,
we started with nurseries before they were even born, and
there just really wasn't that sense of appreciation because it
was all picked for them. And so as our kids
get older doing things together, they do pick up on
what we're thinking, problems that we're solving, the way that
we're thinking about it, And that's a huge piece of
(20:59):
it is is the value of doing it together. So
I think a lot of us have in our mind
this jump between either I'm going to do it or
they're going to do it. So one encouragement to you
is to maybe find that middle ground of we're going
to do it together and they're going to become more
and more independent in this task slowly, but it does
take time. And I think that's really such a confusing
(21:19):
thing about our culture today is that, especially on social media,
everyone has a quick fix for everything, and so much
of parenting, if you're really in it and you're in
the trenches, it's not a quick fix. It's an every
day slow process. You might mess up, you might apologize
to your kids, you might try something one day and
then be like that's didn't feel right. We're not doing
that again, And it is an ongoing process where things
(21:43):
get refined, and then you have a second kid and
they're totally different and you're like, actually, none of that'scratched
at all. So I think that's such an important thing
for parents to hear and to be encouraged by, is
if it feels hard, it is hard. There isn't some
script that would just teach your child executive function. This
is the day to day tasks that you're doing. And
(22:03):
the good news is it's the day to day tasks
that you're already doing, so it can be both.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
If it feels hard, it is hard. I love that
validation because we often think, well, why is it so
hard for me? It's not hard for anybody else. We
just don't see that their struggle for everyone. One thing
I was going to mention as we've been talking is
that we also don't want to tell them what to
do right. So if the shoes are in the middle
(22:29):
of the kitchen floor, we don't want to say I
need you to get your shoes and go put them
in the shoe cubby, right, because we want them to
work that out. So that second layer for me was
always oh, I see your shoes in the floor, and
then just waiting right because he can figure that out.
But I need to give him the opportunity. The other
(22:51):
thing was always like just narrating all of the things that,
as you were saying, that we take for granted that
happen inside. Our kids can get value from that. They
can learn skills from that if we are narrating. So
if I'm just getting frustrated and then I problem solve
in my head and I move on, They're not learning that.
They're not learning that someone can get frustrated. This is
(23:12):
how you work it out, and this is where you
go from there, right, So a couple more layers on
top of that can be really helpful, I've found as well.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Absolutely, I think with both of those points, you're spot on.
Just that one that you just mentioned, Yeah, I used
to when I was still in private practice doing therapy.
One of the things that I would tell parents to do,
which probably surprise them, was be a little more transparent
with your emotions, like let kids feel alone. And this
is more broad too, but speaking just to emotions, a
(23:42):
lot of times kids feel alone in their emotions because
they don't realize that other people feel these things too.
They don't realize that other people worry. Sometimes they don't
realize that some people feel ashamed. Sometimes they don't realize
that other people feel embarrassed sometimes. So the more that
we're kind of as parents were like inside managing that
and we want to put on a cool face for
our for our kids, although that doesn't always happen. Sometimes
(24:03):
verbalizing what's going on inside is really to the benefit
of our kids. A they realize they're not alone, and
B they see what we're doing to problem solve, whether
it's managing big emotions or it's managing the detour on
the way to school. You say, oh, gosh, you know
that light isn't working today, so we have to take
a right turn today. I guess I could take the
backway to school, you'd have to come in the other door. So,
(24:25):
like you're verbalizing your thought process to benefit your child,
they're realizing you don't just automatically have the answer all
of the time, that you're kind of doing your own
problem solving, and that really helps with executive function. And
to your first point, Twopenny, rather than saying like you
need to put your shoes away, what you're talking about
is using declarative language, and the use of declarative language
(24:48):
is great for growing your child's executive function. And Katie
does such an eloquent job talking about declarative language. I'll
let her do that because I think this is just
another key way that parents don't have to add add
a ton to their plate at home, but they can
be growing executive function at home.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Absolutely. Yeah, I love talking about declarative language. It's interesting
because as a speech therapist, you know, we spend a
lot of time working with kids, obviously, but this was
always one of my strategies for parents, and they're like, wait,
I thought it was the kid that was going to
be doing the work. But it feels weird to use
declarative language. Essentially exactly what you said, Penny, you're just
speaking things out loud. Oh, I noticed that it's really
(25:27):
cloudy outside. I wonder if it's going to rain. And
then you just wait a second and you let your
child process that, especially if you have a child who
is a slower processor. Don't assume that they immediately listened
and heard you and processed it and understood that. That
means they need a jacket or an umbrella, right, But
give it a little time. And what I love about
(25:47):
declarative language is that you can just really layer as
much as you need to. So you might start with, oh,
I noticed it's really cloudy and it looks like it
might rain, and then if your child is like yup
and they're heading out the door in the take, you
can say, oh, I wonder what we might need if
it does rain, right, And so it's easy to then
build in a little bit more support and a little
(26:08):
bit more support without jumping to hey, it's cloudy, go
get your umbrella, or worst case us, just grabbing the
umbrellas and throwing them in the car. Because again, it's
that thought process that we're speaking out loud, and it
does feel a little bit strange to make open ended
statements when nobody says anything back. So again I always
(26:28):
like to think for parents, like how are you actually
putting this into practice? When you try this, it's gonna
feel weird because you're like, I'm speaking to an audience
of no one. But it's really valuable for our kids
to be able to hear again, like you said that
inner monologue or those inner thoughts, and then how are
we going to problem solve that. I think that's a
really valuable, valuable skill. It's actually in our top three
(26:50):
things that we talk about a lot for executive function
is that using that declarative language. And it's not just
a speech therapy thing. It's something that we can all
do as parents to grow our kids awareness of what's
going on around them.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
And wait a lot longer than is comfortable, make it weird.
This is what I learned from Seth Perler, Like you
just keep waiting, keep like we talk too much as parents.
Oh yeah, it's part of that fixing and problem solving.
But if we don't give them the space to figure
it out on their own, how are they ever going
to learn to do that? And it is so super valuable,
(27:28):
Like if you wait, they will likely answer or say
something at some point, but they're used to you just
going on and so they don't realize yet that they're
supposed to say anything. Probably, you know.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
It's like you know, once she's done talking, I know
she's going to repeat herself again a little more succinctly.
That's when I'll listen. They're learned to just kind of
tune you out until you raise your voice or you
sound a lot more serious. So, yeah, you have to
wait a lot longer than feels comfortable, because these kids
with delayed executive function do often have slower processing speed,
And again it's not them being defiant or naughty or
(28:02):
hoping to get out of it. They need more time
to process that information and decide what to do with it.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah, when my kid was little, somehow I figured out
that I just needed to count to five in my
head before I expected a response, because I expected a
response immediately, right, that's what we normally do. And it
was a game changer. I went from thinking he never listened,
(28:28):
he never responds to He almost always listens and responds
if I just give him enough time and I give
him that quiet space of me not talking right to
get there made a huge, huge difference, And I think
it's a really valuable strategy for sure. Anything else you
want to add before we wrap up about executive function
(28:52):
and living with kids and other adults who struggle with that,
I love it.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
I think mainly it's just the main mindset set shift
that we need to meet our kids where they're at.
And a lot of times the struggles that are happening
at home when we're kind of clashing with our kids,
when we feel like they're not doing what we want
them to do. Again, our kids want to do well.
They don't want to be in constant struggle with you
(29:18):
and feel like they're never meeting your expectations. They want
to meet your expectations. We have to meet them where
they're at and then slowly help them take steps forward
as we grow these skills. And I think that that
mindset shift is the biggest game changer because it totally
changes how you approach your kids at home.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
You guys have a freebee that you're offering to everyone.
Do you want to tell us a little bit about that?
It'll be linked up in the show notes. Great. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
So we have created a few different resources I think
based on this talk today, the best one for us
to share would be six Keys to Raising a Happy
and Independent Child with ADHD. And that's just a free
guide that we created with six strategies that parents can
use and things that we we felt like, if we
were sitting with you in our office or at coffee
(30:03):
as a friend, what are the things we would really
want you to start with and learn about ADHD. So
that's just a great resource that you can check out
and it is a guide with you know, lots of
suggestions and things like that for you if you're especially
if you're new to the diagnosis or you feel like
maybe you've been trying some things but it's not really working.
It can be a really helpful reframe and kind of
(30:25):
clean slate.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Awesome and tell everybody where they can find you online.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Yeah, we're most active on our Instagram at the Childhood Collective.
That's probably where we spend most of our time. We
are also, you know, on TikTok and Facebook and some
of the other platforms, and then we do have a podcast,
Shining with ADHD, and that is a really wonderful resource.
Sometimes it's just the three of us talking and other
times we have guests like yourself, Penny, and it's been
(30:50):
a really nice way to just interview different professionals, parents,
all kinds of people that are on this journey of ADHD,
and so that's definitely something that's worth checking out.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Well, thank you for the work that you're doing, and
I just love this partnership that you guys have and
what you're working on to help families like yours. It's
really powerful stuff. It's needed.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Thank you. Thank you so much for the opportunity and
for taking the time to chat with us. We love
being here.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Awesome well. The show notes are available on the website
PARENTINGADHD and Autism dot com. And I will see everybody
in the next episode. Take good care. I see you.
You're doing hard and meaningful work and you don't have
to do it alone. If you found this episode helpful,
share it with someone who needs it and leave a
(31:41):
quick review so others can find this support too. When
you're ready for next steps, the Regulated Kids Project is
here with the tools, coaching, and community to help you
raise a more regulated, resilient child. Get more info at
regulated kids dot com.
So I think this is a pattern that parents fall into.
They're constantly closing loops for their kids. Like I said,
they are the ones that are putting the dirty clothes
off the floor into the hamper. They're the ones that
are taking the dishes from the table to the sink.
And so the more we're just accommodating our kids in
that way and closing all the loops for them, we're
(00:21):
not giving them the opportunity to practice closing that loop.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Welcome to Beautifully Complex, where we unpack what it really
means to parent neurodivergent kids with dignity and clarity. I'm
Penny Williams, and I know firsthand how tough and transformative
this journey can be. Let's dive in and discover how
to raise regulated, resilient, beautifully complex kids together. Oh and
(00:48):
if you want more support, join our free community at
hub dot beautifully complex dot life. Welcome back to Beautifully Complex,
every one. I'm really excited today to have part of
the Childhood Collective with me Katie Severson and Malory Yee,
(01:09):
and we're going to talk about executive function and how
to really weave in some strategies into day to day life.
Because I think that's where we really see problems, right,
That's where kids with ADHD, kids with autism, if they
have also executive function challenges, this is where they get
tripped up, is the little things that we're asking them
(01:31):
to do day to day. And I've had so many
parents say, well, my kids eight, they ought to be
able to get dressed by themselves. My kids tend they
should be able to get through the morning without me hovering, right,
But as the three of us know, that's not always
the case. And so I'm glad we're going to jump
in and offer some insights and some strategies. Will you
(01:53):
all start by introducing yourselves so let everybody know who
you are and what you do.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Sure, so, thank you so so much for having us
on Penny. My name is Mallory Ye. I'm one third
of the Childhood Collective. I'm a licensed child psychologist. I
have training in school psychology. I've done work in the schools,
I've done work in pediatricians' offices. I've done work in
private practice doing therapy but also evaluations for children with ADHD,
(02:19):
autism and other common developmental concerns. But now doing the
Childhood Collective along with Katie and Laurie.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Yeah, and I'm Katie Severson. I'm a speech language pathologist
and similar to mal I, had worked in private practice.
We all kind of overlapped at one point in private
practice doing assessment. And the other third of the Childhood
Collective is doctor Lori Long, another child psychologist, and she
actually had the idea to come together and create resources
(02:48):
for families who are getting that new ADHD diagnosis because
as you might know, you know, you get the diagnosis
of something like autism, and there tends to be this
kind of long checklist like here's all the boxes that
you needed, and with ADHD, which is very impactful to
families lives. Often parents are really not given a ton
of tools. Maybe they're suggested to take medication or try that,
(03:10):
but there's not a ton beyond that for parents. And
we definitely know the value and power of medication, but
also parent behavior training and supporting families kind of from
the ground up at home is a huge piece of it.
And so we started providing resources for the community about
gosh five six years ago now, and it's kind of
(03:31):
evolved into a lot of things. You know, we have
courses and a blog and podcast and all kinds of things.
But we also recently added a course to help families
who are navigating ADHD at school, and that's another piece
of our kind of combined expertise and just really a
lot of times kids with ADHD, their main struggles aren't
the academic skills as much as the executive functions at school.
(03:54):
So I would say, if we had one drum, it's
definitely executive functioning and helping families sort of figure this
out both in the home and school settings, and that's
what we're most passionate about.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Yeah, And I would say another thing is we're also
all living this. Yes, we have a lot of us,
you know, got our degrees before we realize we were
living it over before we were parents. So now we
kind of we we try to really bring our professional expertise,
but through the lens of moms who some of us
have ADHD ourselves. We all have ADHD in our homes
(04:27):
in some way. Most of us are raising kids with ADHD.
So we joke sometimes we laugh about the recommendations that
we used to give to parents before you were parents,
Like I can't I can't believe I used to tell
parents to do that because I would never, and I'm
definitely not doing that in my own home. So we
definitely try to bring this balance between our professional lives
(04:50):
and then actually living it. What's going on in our homes,
what's realistic, what works, and what feels good.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah. Yeah, And it's so different to get advice from
so who lives it versus somebody who just learned it right,
and it makes all the difference. And you were talking
about how when kids get diagnosed with ADHD, there's very
little information. You know, my son was diagnosed with ADHD first,
and it was two thousand and eight, and there literally
(05:17):
was nothing. There was Attitude magazine and Halliwell had Driven
to Distraction book, and I think that was really it,
and it's a big part of the reason why I
ended up doing this work. But we had to figure
it out on our own, and nobody said, Hey, there's
this thing called executive function and here's what it is,
and this is how it's probably impacting all of these
(05:39):
things that you're seeing as behavior issues, they're actually you know,
underlying skilled deficits or different wiring. So do you want
to start by letting everybody know exactly what we mean
when we say executive function for anybody who hasn't heard
of it yet.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Absolutely, yeah, I love this question. And you know, I
think we do hear more and more about executive functions,
but a lot of people, like you mentioned, don't really
know exactly what that means. And so one sort of
simple analogy we like to use is that the executive
functions are kind of like the GPS in our brain.
And so I'm getting in my car and I have
a destination in my mind, an endpoint or a goal,
(06:19):
and executive function helps me to set that goal. Maybe
I'm going to clean the kitchen or bake a cake. Right,
But then with the GPS in our car, it really
quickly calculates the most efficient way to get there, and
what are the steps, what are the roads you're going
to go on, where you're going to turn, And then
as you start to drive, the GPS tells you, oh,
you know what, there's a roadblock up here, or there's construction.
(06:42):
We need to go around this. And similarly, in our brains,
the executive functions help us to figure out the fastest,
most efficient way to clean the kitchen. Oh no, that's
not going to work. The dishwasher is full, and I
forgot to run it, So I need a new plan
to getting these dishes clean. And one of the pieces
that we see with our kids a lot of times
that is such an important executive function is that inhibition
(07:04):
piece where you can easily become Oh, I'm cleaning the
kitchen and I'm going to throw this towel in the laundry,
and then I realized I didn't do the laundry, and
I'm kind of on this little side quest now over here,
and that happens so quickly. And one of the ways
that we can support our kids is building up those
executive functioning skills to make a plan and figure out
(07:25):
how to implement it and how to kind of stop
themselves from side quests. Well, you love side quests, but
it really can rob you of your time and not
allow you to get to your goal. And so that's
what we're thinking about when we talk about the executive functions.
And I think it's really important for parents to understand
that all kids are developing their executive functions up through
(07:46):
the mid twenties. So if your child is struggling in
this area, they're not alone in that. But we do
know that kids with ADHD are often delayed about thirty
percent in their executive functions compared to their peers. So
you have, you know, a nine year old, they might
have executive functioning skills that are more consistent with a
six year old. And we love that reframe for parents
(08:08):
because to your example about getting dressed, it's not that
your child is so naughty and doesn't care and doesn't
love you and you're a terrible parent, right, And we
can go down these kind of rabbit holes, but really
when we reframe it and we say, well, yeah, he
knows how to put his shoes on, he knows how
to put his pants on and button his zipper, you know,
zip his zipper, button his buttons. But what's really happening
(08:29):
often below the surface is an issue with the executive
functioning getting started, staying on task, not losing focus. And again,
when we reframe it, we can say, oh, okay, so
it actually has to do with how his brain is developing,
and it really helps us that in and of itself
doesn't actually change the challenge, but it really changes how
(08:49):
we view it.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Yeah, I love the term side quest. I had many
this morning. Yes I don't have ADHD, but I like
all the things that to be done. Like I think
anybody can relate to having a lot on your plate
and getting distracted trying to manage multiple things at one time,
(09:12):
and you end up somewhere else entirely. And I think
that's kind of a regular experience for a lot of
our kids with ADHD. How do we then help them,
How do we help them to build the skills to navigate,
because they do want to do it, as you were
just saying, Katie, they do want to please us, They
(09:34):
want to participate like any other kid would write like.
They see the difference, and they would like to be successful.
So how do we bridge that gap.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
I think one of the biggest things to keep in
mind is what we talk about as making the invisible visible.
So these executive function strategies are kind of nebulous and
hard to define, and a lot of times we're talking
about things that are not concrete, and kids with ADHD,
especially live in the here and now, and if it's
(10:06):
not like right in front of me, it doesn't exist.
These things that are a little bit more abstract, more invisible,
they have a hard time acting on it when it's
there in the moment. But I think this is a
huge challenge for parents at home. I'm thinking specifically of
one specific example, So, how do we support kids at
home with executive function? Right, if you're parenting a child
(10:27):
with ADHD, this may sound familiar. Loops are constantly being
left unclosed at home. There's stuff everywhere. There's you know,
they get home from school, they pull off all their
clothes and it's littering the ground. They unpack their backpack
and everything's on the counter. There's stuff everywhere. They're not
closing loops, they're not finishing the task, they're starting tasks,
(10:50):
leaving things unfinished, and parents get in a position of
being really frustrated because they're like, I'm constantly closing your loop.
I'm the one that's picking up your laundry and putting
it in the hamper. I'm the one that's putting your
folder in your lunch box back in your backpack and
hanging the backpack up where it belongs. So I think
this is twofold here. One we need to give everything
a home. So this is something that we can do
(11:12):
as parents, is set up the environment for our kids
where everything has a place, because if it doesn't have
a home, if it doesn't have a place, well it's
going to be anywhere but where it's supposed to be right.
So one way that we can help our child with
this executive function at home of like being more organized,
is making sure everything has a home and your child
(11:34):
knows where that home is. You might even label it again,
making that invisible a little bit more visible for them,
or maybe even take a picture of what it looks
like when that thing is in its home. So it
takes this invisible, nebulous concept and makes it very concrete
for your child. And again, we're meeting them where they're at.
We're meeting them where their skill level is with this
(11:55):
at the moment. So one piece is making sure that
everything has a home, and the other piece is making
sure that you're helping your child close their loops and
you're not closing all of the loops for them. So
I think this is a pattern that parents fall into.
They're constantly closing loops for their kids. Like I said,
(12:16):
they're the ones that are putting the dirty clothes off
the floor into the hamper. They're the ones that are
taking the dishes from the table to the sink. And
so the more we're just accommodating our kids in that
way and closing all the loops for them, we're not
giving them the opportunity to practice closing that loop. So
I think that's one more way that we can kind
(12:37):
of grow that executive function support at home for our kids,
kind of meet them where they are, making sure we're
not doing all of this for them. It's a beautiful balance.
We've got to meet kids where they are, but we
also have to have expectations for them and we have
to be building these skills at the same time.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
And I think on that same note, when you're thinking
about this, like if you're trying to apply this to
your own life and you're like, Okay, the main issue
I'll speak to my own house is we recently moved
and we have kind of this mudroom area, but there's
not really like a clear system for the mudroom yet.
So everything when the kids walk in through the garage
door gets dropped on the ground and we're talking like backpacks,
(13:12):
water bottles, lunchboxes, soccer cleats, just whatever it is. And
then the next person to come through gets really irritated.
It's me. I'm the person that comes through, like what
am I supposed to do with all this stuff here?
And I start moving it and you know, putting it away.
And so this is a real life working example for
me where I'm talking with my kids and we're saying, Okay,
what do we need to do to make this mudroom
(13:34):
work for us? And literally bringing our kids along on
that journey. That's such a huge piece of executive functioning
is that for parents? And you mentioned this two penny, Like,
we have so much on our plates, right, if it's
back to school season, we have so many things to
keep track of, it's if it's the holiday season, we're
all like running around like little elves. There's so much
that we're in charge of, and we do it in
our minds and it really is quote invisible to our kids, right,
(13:57):
they don't see it, and so same with us. That
I might design that's so cute, and I found it
on Pinterest and it looked really good, and I went
to the store and I got the hooks. But now
my kids are not invested in that. They don't have
buy in, They don't really understand that system. And maybe
even in my excitement to imitate Pinterest, I stuck the hooks,
you know, four and a half feet off the ground,
and my kids can't even reach that high. So it's
(14:20):
taking the time and really being cognizant. And I think, again,
we just live in a world where we have so
much that we need to get done in a day.
It's almost impossible, truly, But slowing down and saying, okay,
what is the problem, Like why is it such a
hard thing for you to get your socks? You know,
your shoes are over here on this little shelf, but
we can't get socks. And they'll say, you know, okay,
(14:41):
it's because my shoes or my socks are over in
my dresser in my bedroom. So then we can problem
solve that and be like, okay, what do we need
to do. Let's get a basket. Maybe it's not a
cute basket. Let's just grab a basket, put all the
socks right next to the shoes. Or we have backpacks.
How many bags do we need to hang up? You
know we have soccer and the and two backpacks. Okay,
(15:01):
so five hooks, six hooks? Where should we put them?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Here?
Speaker 3 (15:05):
You show me how high up you want your hook
to be. And again, we're bringing our kids along in
this process, and parents don't realize it because it's just
it's something that we automatically do, and we automatically problem solve.
We circumvent problems all day long. We're like professional fixers. Okay,
But when we can bring our kids into it, it's
one teaching them how to do it for themselves, which
(15:27):
is the ultimate goal, and it's also helping a lot
with that buy in piece because they feel like they
got a special job in that. And I will say
one encouraging thing if you're listening and you're like, yeah,
I just do not think that we can have homes
for everything, and I want to encourage you that in
my family everyone has ADHD and it really does help
(15:48):
us over time. Like it is work. It took me
a very long time to teach my kids. Okay, The
iPads and the chargers always go in this spot and
it's constant repetition. This is where we really get into
teaching our kids and rewarding them when they're doing a
great job and praising them. But it is a very slow,
uphill project. And at the same time, you're investing time somewhere.
(16:11):
You're either investing time in teaching them where to put
it and helping them learn, or you're investing time in
searching for it. Or buying a new one because you
couldn't find it. So what I've found in my own family,
and I say this as a person who really struggles
with a lot of these things, is if we can
find those places and assign them and everybody knows, and
then we just practice the heck out of it, it
(16:32):
really does save us a lot of time and kind
of mental load in the long run. So if you're
listening and you're like, there's no way, just pick one thing,
one or two things to start. Maybe it's lunchboxes or keys.
Keys were always getting lost, or the remote. The remote
gets lost in our house still, but there is a
spot for the remote and anyone who picks it up
(16:52):
should know this is where it goes. So maybe just
starting small is one way to make it a little
bit more manage.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Yeah, you can always bring a professional into help too,
Like if you really struggle with organization yourself, you can
hire someone to help you, maybe room by room, or
just a few ideas at a time. I'm definitely a
(17:25):
loop closer. I love this terminology. I never thought about
it that way. And my kid is twenty three now
and he still leaves all his loops open everywhere but
I've learned finally to not be the loop closer anymore.
And I bring him in and I just say, take
a look at the kitchen counters and see what you
(17:47):
think you know, and really trying to put that on
him to figure out. But for years I was doing
everything because it was easier and it took less time
and when I didn't yet understand, And is what Katie
was just describing that I can frontload some time and
it's gonna save me later and it's gonna really build
(18:09):
the skills that I want my kids to have. If
I do it for them, they're not learning anything.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yeah, And I think the hard part about not letting
our kids close their own loop is then they never
get the satisfaction of finishing the task. So then they
never get that like feel good, like oh I did that,
or like that looks really nice, or it feels good
when I've put all my things where they belong. They
don't ever get to like access that internal reinforcement, that
(18:35):
satisfaction from following something from start to finish. And guess what,
that makes it harder to even start things. If you're
not getting the satisfaction of finishing things, it just it spirals,
and then you know, loops are constantly being left open,
and I, Penny, just like you, I have to always
stop myself and say, I know the easy route right
now is to put the clothes in the hamper. That's
(18:57):
the easiest thing to do in this moment, but I
know that's not going to serve my family in the
long run, and so it is kind of taking the
temporary discomfort with the idea that the long term payout
will be there. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
And on that same note, I think there's a ton
of value in the idea of doing it together. You know.
I think we have this idea of like either I'm
going to close the loop or they're going to close
the loop, and when that's not happening, it does start
to build a lot of resentment and maybe even frustration
some shame, like oh man, I couldn't teach my kid
how to do this. But when we do things together,
(19:31):
that is a game changer. So my daughter just turned
eleven and she wanted to redo her room, redecorate it
as all eleven year old. She's like, I just have
a new personality now that I'm eleven, and I just
really need my room to reflect I'm like, okay, tell
me about your personality.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
I love to hear about this.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
But you know, yeah, but in that case, I think
about all the loops that go into a project like that. Right,
we started with going through this was the boring stuff.
She was not impressed at all by me. But I'm saying, Okay,
we need to go through your drawers. We need to
get rid of clothes that you don't wear anymore. They're
too small, too short. Let's give them to your cousin,
and let's think about and draw a plan before we
(20:09):
just buy a bunch of furniture. Where do you want
your things? We had a big chair in her room
and there really wasn't room for that, so we had
to think about that, like where's your cozy space going
to be? These kind of things. Again, this is all
building executive functioning. But to Mallory's point, when we got
done with that room, and it took us a few
weekends and a lot of work, we painted. It was
(20:29):
an overhaul, but she felt so good and she's still
it's been a couple months now and she still will
say to me, I just.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Love my room.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
I love it, and I've done my kids' rooms. Right,
we started with nurseries before they were even born, and
there just really wasn't that sense of appreciation because it
was all picked for them. And so as our kids
get older doing things together, they do pick up on
what we're thinking, problems that we're solving, the way that
we're thinking about it, And that's a huge piece of
(20:59):
it is is the value of doing it together. So
I think a lot of us have in our mind
this jump between either I'm going to do it or
they're going to do it. So one encouragement to you
is to maybe find that middle ground of we're going
to do it together and they're going to become more
and more independent in this task slowly, but it does
take time. And I think that's really such a confusing
(21:19):
thing about our culture today is that, especially on social media,
everyone has a quick fix for everything, and so much
of parenting, if you're really in it and you're in
the trenches, it's not a quick fix. It's an every
day slow process. You might mess up, you might apologize
to your kids, you might try something one day and
then be like that's didn't feel right. We're not doing
that again, And it is an ongoing process where things
(21:43):
get refined, and then you have a second kid and
they're totally different and you're like, actually, none of that'scratched
at all. So I think that's such an important thing
for parents to hear and to be encouraged by, is
if it feels hard, it is hard. There isn't some
script that would just teach your child executive function. This
is the day to day tasks that you're doing. And
(22:03):
the good news is it's the day to day tasks
that you're already doing, so it can be both.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
If it feels hard, it is hard. I love that
validation because we often think, well, why is it so
hard for me? It's not hard for anybody else. We
just don't see that their struggle for everyone. One thing
I was going to mention as we've been talking is
that we also don't want to tell them what to
do right. So if the shoes are in the middle
(22:29):
of the kitchen floor, we don't want to say I
need you to get your shoes and go put them
in the shoe cubby, right, because we want them to
work that out. So that second layer for me was
always oh, I see your shoes in the floor, and
then just waiting right because he can figure that out.
But I need to give him the opportunity. The other
(22:51):
thing was always like just narrating all of the things that,
as you were saying, that we take for granted that
happen inside. Our kids can get value from that. They
can learn skills from that if we are narrating. So
if I'm just getting frustrated and then I problem solve
in my head and I move on, They're not learning that.
They're not learning that someone can get frustrated. This is
(23:12):
how you work it out, and this is where you
go from there, right, So a couple more layers on
top of that can be really helpful, I've found as well.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Absolutely, I think with both of those points, you're spot on.
Just that one that you just mentioned, Yeah, I used
to when I was still in private practice doing therapy.
One of the things that I would tell parents to do,
which probably surprise them, was be a little more transparent
with your emotions, like let kids feel alone. And this
is more broad too, but speaking just to emotions, a
(23:42):
lot of times kids feel alone in their emotions because
they don't realize that other people feel these things too.
They don't realize that other people worry. Sometimes they don't
realize that some people feel ashamed. Sometimes they don't realize
that other people feel embarrassed sometimes. So the more that
we're kind of as parents were like inside managing that
and we want to put on a cool face for
our for our kids, although that doesn't always happen. Sometimes
(24:03):
verbalizing what's going on inside is really to the benefit
of our kids. A they realize they're not alone, and
B they see what we're doing to problem solve, whether
it's managing big emotions or it's managing the detour on
the way to school. You say, oh, gosh, you know
that light isn't working today, so we have to take
a right turn today. I guess I could take the
backway to school, you'd have to come in the other door. So,
(24:25):
like you're verbalizing your thought process to benefit your child,
they're realizing you don't just automatically have the answer all
of the time, that you're kind of doing your own
problem solving, and that really helps with executive function. And
to your first point, Twopenny, rather than saying like you
need to put your shoes away, what you're talking about
is using declarative language, and the use of declarative language
(24:48):
is great for growing your child's executive function. And Katie
does such an eloquent job talking about declarative language. I'll
let her do that because I think this is just
another key way that parents don't have to add add
a ton to their plate at home, but they can
be growing executive function at home.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Absolutely. Yeah, I love talking about declarative language. It's interesting
because as a speech therapist, you know, we spend a
lot of time working with kids, obviously, but this was
always one of my strategies for parents, and they're like, wait,
I thought it was the kid that was going to
be doing the work. But it feels weird to use
declarative language. Essentially exactly what you said, Penny, you're just
speaking things out loud. Oh, I noticed that it's really
(25:27):
cloudy outside. I wonder if it's going to rain. And
then you just wait a second and you let your
child process that, especially if you have a child who
is a slower processor. Don't assume that they immediately listened
and heard you and processed it and understood that. That
means they need a jacket or an umbrella, right, But
give it a little time. And what I love about
(25:47):
declarative language is that you can just really layer as
much as you need to. So you might start with, oh,
I noticed it's really cloudy and it looks like it
might rain, and then if your child is like yup
and they're heading out the door in the take, you
can say, oh, I wonder what we might need if
it does rain, right, And so it's easy to then
build in a little bit more support and a little
(26:08):
bit more support without jumping to hey, it's cloudy, go
get your umbrella, or worst case us, just grabbing the
umbrellas and throwing them in the car. Because again, it's
that thought process that we're speaking out loud, and it
does feel a little bit strange to make open ended
statements when nobody says anything back. So again I always
(26:28):
like to think for parents, like how are you actually
putting this into practice? When you try this, it's gonna
feel weird because you're like, I'm speaking to an audience
of no one. But it's really valuable for our kids
to be able to hear again, like you said that
inner monologue or those inner thoughts, and then how are
we going to problem solve that. I think that's a
really valuable, valuable skill. It's actually in our top three
(26:50):
things that we talk about a lot for executive function
is that using that declarative language. And it's not just
a speech therapy thing. It's something that we can all
do as parents to grow our kids awareness of what's
going on around them.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
And wait a lot longer than is comfortable, make it weird.
This is what I learned from Seth Perler, Like you
just keep waiting, keep like we talk too much as parents.
Oh yeah, it's part of that fixing and problem solving.
But if we don't give them the space to figure
it out on their own, how are they ever going
to learn to do that? And it is so super valuable,
(27:28):
Like if you wait, they will likely answer or say
something at some point, but they're used to you just
going on and so they don't realize yet that they're
supposed to say anything. Probably, you know.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
It's like you know, once she's done talking, I know
she's going to repeat herself again a little more succinctly.
That's when I'll listen. They're learned to just kind of
tune you out until you raise your voice or you
sound a lot more serious. So, yeah, you have to
wait a lot longer than feels comfortable, because these kids
with delayed executive function do often have slower processing speed,
And again it's not them being defiant or naughty or
(28:02):
hoping to get out of it. They need more time
to process that information and decide what to do with it.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah, when my kid was little, somehow I figured out
that I just needed to count to five in my
head before I expected a response, because I expected a
response immediately, right, that's what we normally do. And it
was a game changer. I went from thinking he never listened,
(28:28):
he never responds to He almost always listens and responds
if I just give him enough time and I give
him that quiet space of me not talking right to
get there made a huge, huge difference, And I think
it's a really valuable strategy for sure. Anything else you
want to add before we wrap up about executive function
(28:52):
and living with kids and other adults who struggle with that,
I love it.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
I think mainly it's just the main mindset set shift
that we need to meet our kids where they're at.
And a lot of times the struggles that are happening
at home when we're kind of clashing with our kids,
when we feel like they're not doing what we want
them to do. Again, our kids want to do well.
They don't want to be in constant struggle with you
(29:18):
and feel like they're never meeting your expectations. They want
to meet your expectations. We have to meet them where
they're at and then slowly help them take steps forward
as we grow these skills. And I think that that
mindset shift is the biggest game changer because it totally
changes how you approach your kids at home.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
You guys have a freebee that you're offering to everyone.
Do you want to tell us a little bit about that?
It'll be linked up in the show notes. Great. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
So we have created a few different resources I think
based on this talk today, the best one for us
to share would be six Keys to Raising a Happy
and Independent Child with ADHD. And that's just a free
guide that we created with six strategies that parents can
use and things that we we felt like, if we
were sitting with you in our office or at coffee
(30:03):
as a friend, what are the things we would really
want you to start with and learn about ADHD. So
that's just a great resource that you can check out
and it is a guide with you know, lots of
suggestions and things like that for you if you're especially
if you're new to the diagnosis or you feel like
maybe you've been trying some things but it's not really working.
It can be a really helpful reframe and kind of
(30:25):
clean slate.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Awesome and tell everybody where they can find you online.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Yeah, we're most active on our Instagram at the Childhood Collective.
That's probably where we spend most of our time. We
are also, you know, on TikTok and Facebook and some
of the other platforms, and then we do have a podcast,
Shining with ADHD, and that is a really wonderful resource.
Sometimes it's just the three of us talking and other
times we have guests like yourself, Penny, and it's been
(30:50):
a really nice way to just interview different professionals, parents,
all kinds of people that are on this journey of ADHD,
and so that's definitely something that's worth checking out.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Well, thank you for the work that you're doing, and
I just love this partnership that you guys have and
what you're working on to help families like yours. It's
really powerful stuff. It's needed.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Thank you. Thank you so much for the opportunity and
for taking the time to chat with us. We love
being here.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Awesome well. The show notes are available on the website
PARENTINGADHD and Autism dot com. And I will see everybody
in the next episode. Take good care. I see you.
You're doing hard and meaningful work and you don't have
to do it alone. If you found this episode helpful,
share it with someone who needs it and leave a
(31:41):
quick review so others can find this support too. When
you're ready for next steps, the Regulated Kids Project is
here with the tools, coaching, and community to help you
raise a more regulated, resilient child. Get more info at
regulated kids dot com.
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