September 10, 2024 • 41 mins
Joel's journey, which began in Kurdistan, Iraq, offers a unique perspective on resilience and adaptability, shedding light on the enriching experiences that come from living and working in diverse cultural landscapes.
Joel David Bond is an American educator whose unexpected five-month stay on a remote Greek island during the COVID-19 pandemic led to profound personal and professional growth.
His story draws powerful parallels to the experiences of refugees, emphasizing the universal emotions of loss, resilience, and the quest for belonging. We also discuss his memoir, "As Large as Your Spirit: A Reverse Refugee Memoir," where Joel encapsulates his journey and the lessons learned about flexibility and resourcefulness in adversity.
Finally, we delve into the broader implications of cultural understanding and globalization. Joel highlights the importance of respecting individual cultural identities while embracing our shared human values. He also shares his upcoming plans to move to the Ivory Coast for a new teaching position and reflects on how these experiences shape his writing and personal growth.
Let's enjoy Joel's story.
To connect with Joel: https://www.joeldavidbond.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Daniela SM (00:04):
Hi, I'm Daniela.
Welcome to my podcast.
Because Everyone has a Story,the place to give ordinary
people's stories the chance tobe shared and preserved.
Our stories become the languageof connections.
Let's enjoy it.
Connect and relate becauseeveryone has a story and relate
because everyone has a story.
(00:25):
Welcome.
My guest is Joel David Bond, anAmerican educator and author.
He says that he was a man fromthe West, caught in Greece
trying to get back to the MiddleEast.
Joel's journey started inKurdistan.
Iraq offers a unique look atresilience and adaptability
(00:47):
across different cultures.
His unexpected stay on a remoteGreek island during the
pandemic led to significantpersonal and professional growth
, embodying his belief that lifebecomes not easier but
interesting and that learningrequires challenges.
I resonate with those quotes.
(01:07):
We also discussed theimportance of cultural
understanding and globalization.
As Joel prepares for a newteaching position in the Ivory
Coast in Africa, I found itfascinating to speak not just to
a traveler, but to a man whoenjoys immersing himself in very
different cultures.
He always seeks to broaden hisperspective, shifting from broad
(01:31):
focus to more detailed one.
So let's enjoy Joel's story.
Welcome, joel, to the podcast.
Thank you for being here.
Joel David Bond (01:40):
Thanks for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Daniela SM (01:42):
Yes, me too.
So, Joel, I know you have astory to share, so tell me why
you want to share your story.
Joel David Bond (01:49):
You know, I think it's just one of those
things we connect with otherpeople through story and we
learn so much about life throughwhat other people have gone
through, and I am just superpassionate about what I've
learned from this experience andhope others will learn from it
as well.
Daniela SM (02:03):
Yes, yes, that's right.
We connect through stories.
That you're right, and I lovethat you're here for that.
So when does your story start?
Joel David Bond (02:11):
So the story starts at the beginning of the
pandemic 2020, in March of thatyear, I decided to take a spring
break vacation from my life inIraq, where I'd been living for
several years and there's thisrumor of this pandemic that was
happening, but it didn't seem toaffect me, and where I was in
(02:31):
that part of the world and I hadthis intense experience living
in Iraq and I was working mymaster's degree remotely and I
said I need to disconnect fromthe world for a week and just
downshift and take a vacation.
And so that's when I booked avacation to this lesser visited
Greek island in the Aegean Seafor a week with just my carry-on
(02:52):
bag and flew over there.
And the day I arrived on theisland itself, the World Health
Organization used the wordsglobal pandemic and the airports
closed, the borders shut andwhat was going to be a five-day
vacation with my carry-on bag onthis island extended into an
interminable five months where Iwas stranded on this island
(03:15):
without access to my normalresources, community work or
friends.
That's where the story begins.
Daniela SM (03:21):
But you are original from.
Joel David Bond (03:23):
Originally from here in the United States,
but I've lived abroad for 20years, the last seven of which
have been in northern Iraq, inthe Kurdistan region.
Daniela SM (03:32):
And that's because of work or preference.
Joel David Bond (03:35):
Well, both I work in international education,
and so I teach in differentplaces around the world, for
varying lengths of time,different contracts, but my most
recent position had been innorthern Iraq for quite some
number of years, and so that wasmy home.
That was where I lived.
My community, all my personalpossessions, my life, everything
(03:55):
was there in Iraq, and I gotstranded, quarantined, away from
a third country that I'd neverbeen to you know, I'd never been
to Greece.
And so here I'm, stuck there.
Daniela SM (04:03):
Yes, and how do you choose?
Joel David Bond (04:07):
Iraq.
Daniela SM (04:07):
It's not a place that everybody goes.
Joel David Bond (04:08):
I think part of it is just I have this drive
for adventure.
I have just insatiablecuriosity, and so I'm always
looking to go someplace new anddifferent.
When I had the opportunity topursue this position in
Kurdistan, truth be told, Ididn't realize I was moving to
Iraq straight away.
I thought I was moving to theKurdish areas of Turkey, until I
got some more information aboutthe school and where I was
(04:29):
situation, and so then Irealized I was moving to Iraq.
So that was a bit of a learningcurve, but I really enjoyed the
cultures in and around theMiddle East.
I'd spent a number of yearsprior to moving there dipping my
toe in and out of the waters inand around Turkey and
Azerbaijan and Kuwait and Israel, and really enjoyed that part
of the world.
And so when the opportunitycame up for me to work there, I
(04:50):
thought well, why not, let'sjust give it a try.
Millions of people that live inthis country and survive and go
to school and visit grandma andbuy milk at the supermarket, and
it's no different than anyplace else in the world.
Really, it's just it has badnews headlines and I figured if
I was going to move anywhere inthe world based just on the news
.
By that same logic, I wouldnever move back to America
because of gun violence andprotests and political unrest
(05:12):
etc.
I had to sort of tell myselfthat every place in the world
has people and these people livetheir lives, have to know how
to live in differentenvironments and adapt to the
place where you're at.
That's what I did.
Daniela SM (05:25):
Yes, exactly, I feel like that too, that we
shouldn't listen to the news, weshould just explore ourselves,
because everybody has adifferent experience as well.
But what about the culture?
How was it very different?
Or because you've been dippingyour toes in different cultures
from the Middle East?
It wasn't that different.
Joel David Bond (05:44):
You know, the culture was unique.
The Kurdish culture inparticular is its own thing.
It does sort of borrow andblend very closely with a lot of
Turkish culture, a lot ofArabic culture, a lot of Iranian
and Farsi culture, and yet itis its own unique, distinct
thing, its own language.
They have their own militaryforces in the Kurdistan region,
(06:06):
their own political systems.
It does have its own uniqueculture to it.
Although I found it was, it wasfairly easy to integrate one
because the people were sohospitable, people were
genuinely welcoming and really,you know, glad to have
foreigners there, because they'dbeen close to the outside world
for so long and so now there'sknow this external influence can
come in and they're very opento that.
(06:27):
And then also because it justhad similarities with some of
the neighboring cultures thatI'd spent some time with that, I
didn't feel like it was a steeplearning curve.
There was definitely a lot tolearn, but in terms of cultural
adaptation I found I was like,oh, this is a little bit like
Turkey.
Oh, this food's like what I'vehad in other places in the
(06:49):
middle east.
Oh, this is feels like it mightbe iranian influence, and so
you were able to sort of teaseapart some of that but at the
same time all of that puttogether a kaleidoscope image
that was unique to just thekurdish culture there funny how
we always tend to compare, tokind of make it understand to
our brain, and yet some culturesays no, it doesn't look like
anything else, it is unique fromour country.
Yeah, I mean, I feel on somelevel depends on how macro a
view you want to take on things.
(07:10):
You know, if you want to pullall the way out, every culture
has some food that they wrap inanother food, you know.
And how microscopic do you wantto pick this part?
Is it beef versus chicken?
Is it this spices of that spice, Is it these vegetables or
those?
Again, depending on your lensand your sort of altitude that
you're looking at things, it'llbe very similar.
It'll feel very different thecloser inspection that you give
(07:32):
to these sorts of things.
Yes, the more unique it doesreally seem.
But if just to sort of createthat framework to work with to
begin with, I think that sort ofhigh level, 30,000 foot
overview is kind of a goodstarting point.
Yes, thank you, I appreciatethat explanation Very, very to
the point.
Daniela SM (07:50):
Very good.
Okay, so then you are strandedin Greece.
Only have a backpack.
I hope you'll have a laptop.
Joel David Bond (08:01):
Yeah, so I had my laptop and I had a backpack.
The downside was I hadintentionally chosen a place
that was somewhat disconnectedand so I had very poor internet
connection.
And I remember I would wanderaround the courtyard of the
villa that I had rented for thatweek trying to, you know, grab
reception on my phone.
You know I'm holding it up inthe air and I'm trying to grab
this reception.
And as the pandemic and thequarantine stretched out, you
know I ended up doing some workonline remotely, but I was never
(08:22):
able to join any meetings livein person.
I had pre-record myself andthen set them to upload
overnight.
It would take 12 hours for afive minute video to upload Very
slow, laborious internet speeds, and so I ended up sort of just
doing very piecemeal work andspending a lot of time really
just in meditation and in quietreflection and just being by
(08:43):
myself, because I was the onlyguest in the hotel where I was
at for four out of the fivemonths that I was quarantined.
Daniela SM (08:49):
Yeah, and Greece had it hard.
Joel David Bond (08:51):
Yeah, it was very hard.
Nobody came or left from theislands for the first two months
or so.
All transportation was cut off.
It was just incrediblyisolating and I didn't speak
Greek.
I didn't know anybody.
I was just there with mycarry-on bag no-transcript for
(09:36):
me, because everybody wasquarantined.
Everybody had this situationwhere they felt isolated and
removed from their community.
But I think what made itparticularly unique is, part way
through, as local restrictionsstarted to ease, I discovered
that there was a refugee camp onthe island full of asylum
seekers from the Middle East whowere caught in Greece trying to
get to the West.
(09:57):
And here I was, a man from theWest caught in Greece trying to
get back to my home in theMiddle East, and so I ended up
volunteering in the refugee campto teach English.
Our paths intersected and Iended up really learning an
incredible amount about theworld migration situation and
the global refugee crisis, justconnecting and changing our
lives forever.
There's their lives and mine,and the whole experience was
(10:19):
absolutely incredible to seewhat was happening behind the
veil of mass migration andpolitical unrest and movement to
Europe from these places andwhat motivated a lot of that,
and it was just the stories thatI heard from these people were
heartbreaking and just so moving.
Daniela SM (10:38):
I can imagine, and how long were you there in total
, then?
In five months you did all this.
Joel David Bond (10:43):
Yeah, so the first two months was pretty
isolating and then localrestrictions started to ease and
the last two and a half monthsor so I was connected a little
bit more with the refugee campon the opposite side of the
island.
Daniela SM (10:56):
And so then, what happened?
Joel David Bond (10:57):
So finally the restrictions eased globally and
global travel started to reopen, and so that was, I believe,
the 1st of August was the firstflight that returned to my town
in Iraq where I had been living,and I was on the flight on the
2nd of August.
In the middle of all this, hadlost my home in Iraq.
It was sold out from underneathme and I had friends that had
(11:18):
to move everything out of myhouse for me.
I packed my entire house byFaceTime with my friends and
they would take the phone aroundthe room and say do you want
this, do you want this, do youwant this?
And pack things up because myhouse had been sold while I was
away.
I'd lost it, and so that allgot moved in my absence, and so
when the borders opened, I wasable to fly home.
(11:38):
I immediately went to take careof all my personal possessions,
personal business back home, butreally, really was sad to leave
because by that point I'ddeveloped a little community and
lots of friendships andrelationships in Greece and
really left an indelible mark onmy spirit, made me think a lot
about what it means to beglobally migrant.
(11:59):
So my book that I ended upwriting my memoir about the
entire experience is called asLarge as your Spirit a reverse
refugee memoir.
I named that subtitle because Ifound that my experience on the
island it really mirrored thatof refugees, and while I was
coming from a place of privilege, really, and a place of means,
I was able to support myselfnarrowly for five months on the
(12:21):
island.
I also, like these refugees,was stuck away from home with no
prospect of being able toreturn and in an isolated
environment where I didn't knowthe language, I didn't know the
people and wasn't sure what myfuture would be.
And so it was through that sortof shared common experience,
that shared common emotion, thatI was really able to connect
with a lot of my refugee friendsand students and identify so
(12:43):
much more strongly with what itmeans to be a refugee in today's
modern world.
Daniela SM (12:48):
So many things the book, the experience, the going
back to your hometown and nothaving a place anymore.
There's a lot of situationsthat you have to adapt and deal
with.
I mean very adaptable, that youare.
Joel David Bond (13:03):
I pride myself at this point in my
adaptability.
I have spent a lot of time in alot of places around the world,
but in some ways it gets easierwith life experience.
In other ways it just neverdoes.
I mean, life just throwscurveballs at you all the time
and one of the greatest thingsabout being human is our ability
to grow.
It's wired into our very DNA.
(13:23):
We are meant to change and growand develop and if you're able
to embrace that aspect of yourlife, not just physically but
emotionally and spiritually andrelationally, I think you'll
find life becomes much moreinteresting.
Not necessarily easier, but itdefinitely.
I think you find thoseresources within yourself to
adapt with new situations overtime.
So I'm grateful that I've hadthose experiences even prior to
(13:45):
the quarantine in Greece, tohelp me sort of handle those new
, harder challenges when theycame along.
Daniela SM (13:51):
Yes, well, even traveling to places like that
that don't have the same accessor internet or anything that the
North America, you learn how tobe resourceful, something that
me, growing up in Venezuela, Iam so grateful because we were
always trying to find a solution.
There was never really dwellingon the problem, it's just like,
(14:11):
okay, what's the solution?
And I think that you don't havethat opportunity when you grew
up in North.
Joel David Bond (14:15):
America.
Yeah, we have a little bit tooeasy here, to be honest.
We're not challenged, and Ithink it's part of the reason
why I'm in education is becauseI understand that learning
requires challenge.
You don't learn unless you haveto overcome a challenge, a
problem of some sort, in someways fear for the future of
North American culture, becausewe aren't challenged enough in
(14:37):
many ways, which means we'reprobably not growing or learning
in the ways that we probablyshould or could, you know, and
so I think there's definitelyroom for emotional resilience to
be developed over time, and Ithink that's a big.
Resilience is a key word for mereally in this day and age now,
as I've been around the worldand been many places and had
these sorts of challenges, I'vebeen given the image of a palm
(14:57):
tree.
Palm trees will sway in thewind, the hurricanes will come
through, but they never break,they never snap.
When the storm passes, theysort of return to their normal
upright position because they'vegot that flexibility that's
built into them, and I thinkresilience is like that.
Resilience is this idea ofbeing able to adapt, to bend, to
(15:18):
sway with the storms of lifethat come your way, but never
bend, but never break all theway.
When the storm's passed, you'llfind yourself stronger and more
resilient, more upright for it.
That's an image, a metaphorsomeone gave me a long time ago
and it sort of stuck with me asthis idea to help with adapting
to new situations around theworld.
Daniela SM (15:37):
Yes, it's a good metaphor, and as I say that in
North America you don't havethat opportunity to be so
resourceful, I take it back alittle bit, thinking that maybe
there is a high percentage ofpoverty there.
Now People probably have to beresourceful.
So you wrote this book.
This book comes from that, so Idon't want you to tell the
story that is in the book.
I know that you have more tosay.
(15:59):
You went back and so what?
Joel David Bond (16:01):
You know, what I found I'm going to give
people a message that I hopethey take away from reading the
book is that resilience isdefinitely a strong
characteristic of the humanspirit.
I want the story really to beone about finding a place to
call home, not justgeographically, but emotionally
and relationally.
What does it mean?
To find a space where you'recomfortable being yourself in
(16:25):
and around the people that youknow in your life, in those
communities?
And what I found working withthese refugees is, you know, was
this sense of belonging.
You know, we were all caughtaway from home and we were all
caught in this unfamiliarsituation, and so that sort of
trauma bonding experience reallyhelped us grow together and
(16:49):
understand each other'ssituations a lot better.
And even though we didn't speakthe same language or come from
the same backgrounds or cultures, necessarily there was this
universal shared emotion that wecould connect with.
And I think that's what I reallywant people to understand
through reading this book andthrough just moving through
around the world is the ideathat there are shared universals
(17:10):
.
And if you're able to identifywhat's common, what is shared
emotionally between people, thena lot of the differences, a lot
of the oh, it's not a taco,it's a burrito or it's.
This sort of conversation kindof falls to the side, because
you recognize that there's a lotmore that is similar than there
(17:30):
is different.
And it's not to say thatdifferences are important.
It's just that when we dwell onthe differences they create
tension.
And if we can dwell on theshared common experiences, we'll
start from a place of trust andstart from a place of love.
Daniela SM (17:49):
For me, I feel like ignorance is put as in a box.
If you learn about cultures andyou can tell the difference of
people, how they look, people,how they speak, people, how they
what they eat.
It gives you that knowledge thatwe are different.
Not everybody who looks Latinis from the same country, or
everybody who has Asian eyes isChinese.
(18:12):
You bring a point that I alsonoticed, that we are all very
the same, point that I alsonoticed that we are all very the
same, like, feel like.
To respect people's culture isimportant, but to respect the
humans that we all the same isalso very important yeah, it's.
Joel David Bond (18:26):
You know, some people you know in various
religions, backgrounds andcircles will talk about the
light, the divine light in eachand every human being, and I
think that's for me that's anice esoteric way to kind of
look at it.
But even if you're not from aspiritual background, just to
recognize that we all, you know,we're all alive, we all want to
eat and have relationships andexperience joy and, to you know,
(18:50):
be with family.
And you know, we have theselongings and these relationships
that are inbuilt to our verylives and the fabric of who we
are.
And I remember several yearsago my mother and stepfather
came to visit me in IraqiKurdistan and at that point in
his life my stepfather hadreally not ever really been out
(19:12):
of the country.
I think he'd been to the UKpossibly, and maybe Mexico, but
never any places as exotic ordifferent as Iraq.
And so I was really nervous tobring him over there because
this was going to be quite theculture shock, and at the time I
didn't know him quite as well.
He'd newly married into thefamily, and so I remember one
evening we went to some friendsof mine and they invited us to
his parents' house for dinner.
(19:33):
And so it's on this farmoutside of the city and they
made this phenomenal Kurdishdinner with this food that just
spread across the entire floorand we sat on the floor and ate
with our hands and had all this.
You know plastic cutlery andplates and shared communal
dishes.
You know everybody reaching outof the same shared bowls in the
middle, and the mother of thefamily, partway through, sort of
(19:55):
paused her work with the dinnerand turned on the television
and sat in her chair and watchedMecca and did her prayers.
At that time I remember thinkingfor me this was an everyday
experience because I'd lived inthe country for quite some time,
I was very familiar and verycomfortable with Islamic culture
and Middle Eastern food anddining practices etc.
(20:17):
And I remember thinking that mystepdad was going to be so
terribly uncomfortable, from aNorth American Christian
background and used to NorthAmerican dining rules and tables
and forks and knives and chairsand having your own individual
dish.
I remember feeling very nervousduring that whole meal and
afterwards we were driving backto the hotel we were staying and
I asked my stepdad about thatexperience and he said you know
(20:40):
what that was?
Just that just showed mesomething.
I was like, okay, and he saidthat just showed me that
everyone around the world valuesfamily.
Everybody got together to sharethat meal and they just and they
loved being together.
And you know, the mother hadher role in that and the kids
had their role in this and thefather was doing this thing and
(21:03):
they all wanted to talk aboutthese things.
And, even though I didn'tunderstand everything that was
happening, I just recognizedthat this was a family that
wanted to be together on theirday off.
And I remember sort of drivingslack-jawed in the car thinking,
oh is like that's what mystepdad took away from this,
like that's a, that's a reallyemotionally resilient person to
be able to go through anexperience that's so vastly
(21:24):
different from what he had known, ever known before and to walk
away from it having recognized,oh, it's a shared value, it's
like a family dinner, it's likea Sunday family dinner, only
this is the Islamic version inKurdistan.
And I felt really proud of himat that point, to be honest,
because I was afraid that hewould have this sort of judgment
or this fear or thismisunderstanding or would
(21:46):
confess to being incrediblyuncomfortable.
But no, he walked away from ithaving really seen the universal
value of it, and for me that'sthe sort of thing that I really
wish everybody could do.
Um, that's sort of what's mylife's mission, I suppose, is to
help people navigate thosecross-cultural environments and
understand that, hey, we're allin this thing called life and
(22:06):
doing it together might look alittle different, but at its
core, at its fundamental base,we're seeking the same things
here yes, that's true.
Daniela SM (22:15):
We all at the end is true family and love and
belonging and community.
Yes, I mean that's why theytalk about the centenarians,
that that's what keep them alive, having community, having a
purpose, having people that theycare about.
So, yeah, it has to be trueyeah, so, so important get.
(22:38):
You get distracted with thesilly things.
Joel David Bond (22:40):
Yeah, having purpose really is so key I joke
sometimes.
I grew up in a veryconservative evangelical
Christian background, which I'vesince come in different
directions from that upbringing,but a lot of those values I
think I still hold and Iremember growing up thinking
surrounded by this what's themeaning of life?
(23:01):
Question what is the meaning oflife?
As I've grown older, I thinkthe meaning of life is to make
meaning, to make purpose, tocreate meaning.
We are created to create.
We are creators who want tomake things and do things in
this world.
I think that's really themeaning.
(23:21):
Our purpose, it's our purpose.
Our meaning in life is toactually go out there and make
meaning of the things that wefeel might be so nonsensical.
And once you sort of have thatdrive and you've created that
structure to live within, you'vegot a purpose and a story that
helps motivate and propel you tothe next adventure.
To me, the meaning of life isto make more meaning.
Daniela SM (23:40):
Yes, that's beautiful said.
Thank you so much.
You're a philosopher.
I've got a lot of time to think, which is also very important
and necessary.
Instead of being bombarded withgarbage, putting less
unnecessary things in our brainand clean them up.
Of being bombarded with garbage, putting less unnecessary
things in our brain and cleanthem up.
I think it's not just beingminimalistic on your way of
(24:02):
living, but on the things thatyou have in your brain as well.
Joel David Bond (24:05):
Yeah, I think that's really one of the
beauties of the pandemic andpart of what you'll see come
through in the book is thevolume on all that external
noise that was bombarding us all.
The time got turned way downand all of a sudden all of us
were forced to spend time withour own thoughts and to
introspect and to spend moretime in isolation and some of us
(24:27):
, I think, were more adept atdiving into that and pressing
into that than others.
But regardless of where youwere on that sort of
self-awareness spectrum, I thinkwe all had that opportunity to
just sit and be like okay, whoam I and what do I want?
And for a short, brief period,I feel, during the pandemic and
shortly after, I felt that wehad a much stronger sense of
community and connection withpeople.
(24:49):
And I think as we've turnedthat volume back up on all the
noise and the radio sounds thatkind of bombard us every day, I
think we've lost a little sightof that in the recent years.
Daniela SM (25:00):
I know I was very disappointed.
I thought we were going tocontinue better.
Joel David Bond (25:04):
Yeah, I was hoping for longer lasting change
, but you know there's stillhope, I suppose.
Daniela SM (25:09):
But so the book is about the refugees that you met
in Greece.
But I know you have anotherpart of your story.
Joel David Bond (25:17):
Like you were back in Iraq and then you
couldn't be back in Iraq anymore.
Is that also part in the book,or can we talk about it?
That is going to be my secondbook, which I'm currently
working on, between Iraq and ahard place.
That story takes place afterthe end of as Large as your
Spirit and the book about therefugees on the Greek island.
I returned to Iraq and I spentanother two years there this
(25:39):
last two, three years, actually,and this last October.
In the wake of the Israel-Gazaconflict, I just had a ripple
effect throughout the MiddleEast, and even though I wasn't
in Israel and I wasn't anywhereconnected to Israel, there was
just this repercussion that wentacross the Middle East.
As an American citizen in Iraq,somehow or another, I got
(26:05):
singled out as a target forkidnapping by terrorist
organizations that were stilloperating in the country.
I was given a phone call on aFriday night from the US State
Department informing me of thesituation and telling me that I
should depart as soon aspossible, and so that was Friday
night.
On Saturday night, I was on theairplane with two suitcases
worth of my stuff that I couldpack, the rest left behind and
evacuated back to the US, whereI've been since.
(26:27):
It was a very traumatic anddramatic departure from a place
that I'd called home for sevenyears that I loved very much.
So I'm working on thatnarrative, that memoir and the
direction, the things that I'velearned from that.
That's still a bit of a processand I don't know that I can
speak intelligently or asphilosophically about it as I
can, about the first experiencethat we have spoken about.
(26:48):
There's a lot that goes intothat.
I'm looking forward to gettingthis next one out to the world
in the next year or so.
Daniela SM (26:55):
But do you think this happens?
If I understand, you went tovisit Israel and then you went
back to Iraq.
Joel David Bond (27:06):
I mean I had been to Israel, but it'd been,
you know, 10 years ago or more,so nothing that was, you know,
any of immediate relevance.
The State Department and the FBI, the phone calls, the
information I've had fromgovernment organizations haven't
been able to tell me a completestory.
So anything I say at this pointis conjecture, is just a guess,
and my guess is because I haveJewish friends and have had some
(27:29):
visibility in the Jewish world,even though I'm not Jewish.
I think that was enough totrigger a few things from these
groups that were there being aWesterner, being American, being
Christian, being connected tothe Jewish world, just having a
visibility, with a book that hadbeen published, some TEDx talks
(27:49):
that were given in and aroundIraq, social media presence that
was just that one step above,kind of your normal expat that
was over there.
I had a visibility and anotoriety just in general to the
general public.
I'd met with ministers ofeducation and the government and
I think all of those thingscombined were enough to raise my
profile above, just enough tobe a tripping point for groups
(28:14):
that didn't want people there.
Daniela SM (28:16):
So you had a TEDx talk.
Joel David Bond (28:18):
So, yes, I gave a talk in Baghdad.
It wasn't TEDx, but it was verysimilar.
It was the same demographic,same size audience for a large
organization that, an NGO thatwas operating there in Baghdad.
And then I attended the TEDxconferences both in Baghdad and
Erbil, so I had lots ofconnections within that speaking
world at the same time as Ireleased my book.
Daniela SM (28:40):
And when do you think the second one will be
ready?
Joel David Bond (28:42):
Hopefully I'll have that out within a year.
I am in a very, very bigtransition period right now.
I've obviously had thetraumatic transition back to the
US and in another week and ahalf I'm actually moving out of
the country to West Africa whereI'll be taking up a new
teaching position.
I'm in a sort of big tumultuouslife change here, so I'm trying
(29:03):
to juggle lots of projects atthe same time, but hopefully
we'll be able to get somethingout and published at least
self-published on Amazon in thenext 12 months here.
Daniela SM (29:12):
You couldn't stay put.
You had to go somewhere.
Joel David Bond (29:15):
Yeah, I had to go someplace new.
I was never going to stay herefor too long.
Daniela SM (29:24):
And the other thing is that.
So if you say that you stillhave a lot to process from that
traumatic experience of havingto leave in such a rush, are you
ready to continue the book oris this going to take you more
time?
Joel David Bond (29:31):
So I do have an entire rough draft, an
outline, a skeletal structure ofthe book that I'd like to
publish.
It does need a lot of work andsome filling out.
There needs to be a lot ofdetail that's put into it to
sort of round out the length andto make it a little bit more of
a palatable read.
But I have the generalstructures that are there and I
think as I continue to talkabout the experience and as I
(29:53):
transition to a new overseasexperience, it'll help me with,
I think, just perspective.
It'll give me that 30,000 footview that I need Because at the
moment, up until the last coupleof months, I've been very too
close to the experience toreally see the universal truths
that need to be, pulled from it.
So I think, as some time anddistance come from it, I'll be
(30:13):
able to go to that 30,000 footaltitude view and see what
really came from that experienceto help you grow.
Daniela SM (30:20):
I like that analogy that you keep mentioning for you
traveling or going to adifferent culture, because
you're not just going from oneplace to another, you're just
changing cultures and staying,kind of finding other homes to
stay for a while.
So you know what is that?
That's not traveling, that'sjust what that's me.
Yes, I.
(30:42):
What is that?
Joel David Bond (30:43):
that's not traveling, that's just what.
That's me, yes, I know, but youhave met other people like you,
you know, I think it's.
I think it's community building, I think it's that search for
connection, it's that curiosity,it's that desire for growth and
change.
People who I've come across wholive like me, I think, are
never really satisfied withstability.
They always like to have alittle bit of insecurity.
(31:04):
They always like to have alittle bit of like, not quite
sure what the next thing isgoing to be, and I think that's
just that curiosity of what'saround the next corner.
I don't really know how todescribe that one so much.
You know.
I think we all like to have acertain amount of routine that
we build into our lives.
But we also like to take abreak from routine.
We like to go on vacation,right, take 10 days, go
someplace else and take a breakand then come back when you know
(31:25):
, partway through vacation,we're like all right, I'm ready
to go back, I'm ready to do myroutine again.
I think for me it's just I likethose routines to stretch out
and I like those breaks tostretch out as well.
I'll build a routine for acouple of years with a new
community in a new place, andthen I want to disassemble and
reassemble it someplace else andsee if I can learn something
else from the new experience inthe new place.
But yeah, it's definitely nottraveling.
(31:46):
It's living abroad and buildingcommunity and doing work in the
world to see how you can makethings better for everyone,
including yourself.
Daniela SM (31:55):
Yes, and what is the first thing that you do every
time you go to a new place?
Joel David Bond (32:03):
First thing I try and do is learn how to say
thank you in the local language.
That's my number one.
Everywhere I go, I need to beable to say thank you, because I
think there's something aboutbeing grateful, about expressing
gratitude for the help that youreceive in entering a new space
, the love and the connectionthat people will show even
though you're a total stranger.
A new space, the love and theconnection that people will show
even though you're a totalstranger, and looking for ways
to help build and deepen andstrengthen those initial
(32:24):
connections that you make whenyou first step off the airplane.
So, for me, the first thing isgratitude, is to say thank you.
Daniela SM (32:29):
Yes, and the second one then.
Joel David Bond (32:32):
Yeah.
Second thing is just just move,like go, start walking, see
what there is, discover, askquestions, yeah, questions, yeah
.
Ask questions.
Be curious.
For me it's thank you and thenbe curious.
Daniela SM (32:44):
I think that's what it is and so where are you going
now?
Joel David Bond (32:47):
I'm moving to the ivory coast, cote d'ivoire,
in west africa wow, they speakfrench yeah, so french is the
official language I'm.
Part of the reason why I chosethis position is that is, I do
speak french.
I had studied it at in college,in my undergraduate.
I'd lived in France 20 yearsago, so I do have a fading
knowledge of French.
(33:08):
I do need to make sure that Ibrush up on it before I head
back over to a French-speakingcountry.
But part of the reason why Ichose this is because I wanted
the challenge of being someplacewhere I did speak the language,
but maybe not 100% fluently.
In Iraq I didn't speak Kurdishor Arabic, and so the grace and
the privilege, I suppose, ofbeing able to turn the
background noise down a lot andbe like, okay, I don't know what
(33:29):
they're saying and just tune itout, whereas now I'm going to a
place where I will understand afair amount and it's going to
constantly impede on my brainspace.
So I think it'll be a challengeto sort of work bilingually in
a space coming up.
Daniela SM (33:41):
Since you've been to so many countries or live in so
many countries anyone that youthat it was harder to adapt.
Joel David Bond (33:47):
Harder to adapt.
To be perfectly honest, one ofthe first places I lived
overseas was France, and I didfind that initially very hard to
adapt to French culture andlive in that space.
I think that's part of why Ikind of want to go back to a
Francophone country is to see ifI can now overcome that.
With 20 years more experienceunder my belt.
(34:09):
What does it mean to be able toadapt to a new place now that
I've had more experience sincethat first time around?
So I think, yeah, as I've grown, as I've learned, as I've
changed, I think it's becomeeasier every time.
I will never say it's going tobe easy to move to a new country
.
There's always challenges andthings to learn.
But I think I've come to apoint now where some things are
more predictable on what willhappen and how it will unfold,
(34:31):
and so it helps me deal withthat, I think, a little easier.
Daniela SM (34:33):
Yes, you stretch your mind.
Every time you have theseexperiences, your mind becomes
really gooey and verystretchable.
Joel David Bond (34:44):
Elastic?
Daniela SM (34:45):
yes, I don't want it to turn to mush.
Gooey is not good.
Elastic is Elastic.
Yes, it turns into more elastic.
You're right, we will deletethat and put the right one
Wonderful.
So okay, we went through yourtwo books.
Is there anything else that youwant to add?
Because I know you don't wantto tell the whole story.
Joel David Bond (34:59):
What I'd love to have to go away with is this
idea that we're faced constantlywith life decisions.
You know you come to a fork inthe road and you're trying to
decide what to do next theselife junctions and so often we
look at the next steps and wethink what if?
And we fill in the blank with anegative.
(35:21):
What if it's terrible?
What if I lose money?
What if my friends abandon meor I don't meet new people that
I need to?
Or what if?
What if?
What if?
I think it's important just asmuch to fill in the blank with
the positives.
What if that next thing isamazing?
What if it changes your lifefor the better?
What if you meet the peoplethat influence you in ways that
are so beneficial that you neverrealized you needed to be
(35:43):
influenced in?
What if the next step bringsyou such wealth and joy and
prosperity and happiness andlove that you never dreamed
possible?
And I think it's reallyimportant to think about the
next adventure that you take,holding both of those in hand,
not just the negative what ifs,because those are good, those
are evolutionarily in place tokeep us alive.
(36:04):
Like you do need to think whatif this is unsafe, but what if
it's amazing?
And what if you learn thingsfrom it?
And the reality is, the answeris going to be somewhere in the
middle.
It's going to be both good andbad.
You'll learn things either wayand you'll have come up with
great stories in the end.
So if it's a great success,fantastic.
Everyone loves a happy ending.
(36:25):
If it's a terrible failure,fantastic.
What did you learn Becauseyou'll grow from that as well Is
to take the next adventure,take the next step, because what
if it turns out to be somethingreally incredible?
Daniela SM (36:36):
Yes, that's beautiful and it's true, don't
you feel also this is part ofpersonality?
Some people just have thesetraits that they have to be
negative or incapable to livewith uncertainty.
And then there are other peoplethat are like you and that
they're open, are curious,they're always want to explore,
like of course, we don't wanteverybody to be the same.
(36:57):
It will be boring.
I feel like it's personality.
Joel David Bond (37:00):
I think it can be a practiced trait, it may be
nature, it may be nurture.
I'm not quite sure In myfantasy league of doctorate
degrees that I would pursue inanother lifetime.
I would love to see whatrisk-averse and risk-taking
people, what their lifestyleslook like over the long term,
what sorts of things they getinto and how their life
(37:20):
satisfaction is.
I think it'd be a fascinatingdoctorate study.
That's for someone else, not me, but but yeah, I mean I think
it's.
It's a combination of natureand nurture.
I think you know I've alwayshad this, this desire to explore
what's around the next corner,but at the same time I've had to
learn and practice and growfrom those experiences on how to
be thankful and grateful andexplore and ask those questions.
Daniela SM (37:44):
Yes, I know, I know.
And as a teacher, what is itthat you like to teach, I mean,
besides literature?
Are you always throwing thisadvice and these suggestions to
your students?
Joel David Bond (37:56):
I would tell my students in Iraq.
The cover of the book said Iwas teaching English, but I'm
really teaching you how to be abetter human being.
Daniela SM (38:03):
But you were also in an international school there.
Joel David Bond (38:05):
Yes.
Daniela SM (38:06):
These people that go to international schools.
The parents are traveling, sothey are themselves travelers.
Joel David Bond (38:11):
There is a degree of yes.
These students come from meansthey come from backgrounds of
privilege, the school that I hadbeen teaching in but at the
same time, a lot of them hadnever left Iraq or had never
traveled further afield than thenext town over.
So it was really kind of adiverse mix and I was really
surprised, actually, at theamount of travel, or lack
thereof, that a lot of mystudents had.
Their exposure to the rest ofthe world through media and
(38:34):
social media and entertainmentand everything, I mean it's so
prolific.
I mean America exposes cultureso much so far.
You know that it's pretty easyto connect with young students
on, you know, the latest Beyoncesongs or Taylor Swift or
whatever's out there now.
You know, because it'severywhere and so they were able
, you know, you're able, to makethose connections even in
places that are, you know,incredibly different, that you
(38:55):
think these people wouldn't havethe same exposure, but they do.
Daniela SM (38:58):
Yes, I think that's the thing about globalization.
The only thing that it makes itnow, I guess, is that you
traveling what is no more ofthis things but the, the people
and the culture right?
Joel David Bond (39:09):
Yeah, the experiences yes, yeah, so we
said at the same time clearly onthe same page.
I'm thinking Clearly on thesame page.
Daniela SM (39:17):
So wonderful.
I love what I hear Like.
I really appreciate all thethings that you say.
You have a really big messageto share and I hope that you
continue doing that one way oranother.
Yeah.
Joel David Bond (39:29):
And I think in a world where it is so
globalized and you can get yourSnickers bars and Taylor Swift
music anywhere you want to go inthe world, the thing that
really makes life interesting isthe sharing of ideas.
Now, it's those experiences andconnecting mind to mind,
because the physical reality ofour daily lives is so similar in
so many places in metropolitanareas for sure that it's lost
(39:55):
that kind of uniqueness.
And what makes things uniqueare the connections of the
people that you make along theway, and so that sounds super
cheesy, I know, but I thinkthat's part of the reality of
our modern world is we are soconnected that it's the ideas
that we share that really helpmake things interesting.
Daniela SM (40:11):
Well, I mean including this podcast, right?
I've been meeting people fromso many places, from so many
places that I'm fascinated, andso it is true we have now these
opportunities.
Joel David Bond (40:23):
Yeah, everyone has a story.
Daniela SM (40:26):
Yes, everyone has a story, and I guess the more that
we connect this way, that wecan learn more about each other.
Joel David Bond (40:32):
Yeah, 100%.
Daniela SM (40:34):
Yes, all right, jules, thank you so much.
We will put in the show noteseverything about your book that
is already out there andhopefully when you get your next
book you can knock on my doorand we can have a second episode
for sure.
Joel David Bond (40:47):
Yeah, I would love that.
In the meanwhile, I am findableon the internet at
joeldavidbondcom and I'm onInstagram, facebook and LinkedIn
at joeldavidbond and my book isout there on Amazon.
As Large as your Spirit.
Daniela SM (41:01):
As Large as your Spirit.
Wonderful title.
I like it.
Joel David Bond (41:04):
Thanks so much for having me.
Daniela SM (41:05):
Thank you.
I hope you enjoyed today'sepisode.
I am Daniela and you arelistening to, because Everyone
has a Story.
Please take five seconds rightnow and think of somebody in
your life that may enjoy whatyou just heard, or someone that
has a story to be shared andpreserved.
When you think of that person,shoot them a text with the link
(41:27):
of this podcast.
This will allow the ordinarymagic to go further.
Join me next time for anotherstory conversation.
Thank you for listening.
Hasta pronto.
Hi, I'm Daniela.
Welcome to my podcast.
Because Everyone has a Story,the place to give ordinary
people's stories the chance tobe shared and preserved.
Our stories become the languageof connections.
Let's enjoy it.
Connect and relate becauseeveryone has a story and relate
because everyone has a story.
(00:25):
Welcome.
My guest is Joel David Bond, anAmerican educator and author.
He says that he was a man fromthe West, caught in Greece
trying to get back to the MiddleEast.
Joel's journey started inKurdistan.
Iraq offers a unique look atresilience and adaptability
(00:47):
across different cultures.
His unexpected stay on a remoteGreek island during the
pandemic led to significantpersonal and professional growth
, embodying his belief that lifebecomes not easier but
interesting and that learningrequires challenges.
I resonate with those quotes.
(01:07):
We also discussed theimportance of cultural
understanding and globalization.
As Joel prepares for a newteaching position in the Ivory
Coast in Africa, I found itfascinating to speak not just to
a traveler, but to a man whoenjoys immersing himself in very
different cultures.
He always seeks to broaden hisperspective, shifting from broad
(01:31):
focus to more detailed one.
So let's enjoy Joel's story.
Welcome, joel, to the podcast.
Thank you for being here.
Joel David Bond (01:40):
Thanks for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Daniela SM (01:42):
Yes, me too.
So, Joel, I know you have astory to share, so tell me why
you want to share your story.
Joel David Bond (01:49):
You know, I think it's just one of those
things we connect with otherpeople through story and we
learn so much about life throughwhat other people have gone
through, and I am just superpassionate about what I've
learned from this experience andhope others will learn from it
as well.
Daniela SM (02:03):
Yes, yes, that's right.
We connect through stories.
That you're right, and I lovethat you're here for that.
So when does your story start?
Joel David Bond (02:11):
So the story starts at the beginning of the
pandemic 2020, in March of thatyear, I decided to take a spring
break vacation from my life inIraq, where I'd been living for
several years and there's thisrumor of this pandemic that was
happening, but it didn't seem toaffect me, and where I was in
(02:31):
that part of the world and I hadthis intense experience living
in Iraq and I was working mymaster's degree remotely and I
said I need to disconnect fromthe world for a week and just
downshift and take a vacation.
And so that's when I booked avacation to this lesser visited
Greek island in the Aegean Seafor a week with just my carry-on
(02:52):
bag and flew over there.
And the day I arrived on theisland itself, the World Health
Organization used the wordsglobal pandemic and the airports
closed, the borders shut andwhat was going to be a five-day
vacation with my carry-on bag onthis island extended into an
interminable five months where Iwas stranded on this island
(03:15):
without access to my normalresources, community work or
friends.
That's where the story begins.
Daniela SM (03:21):
But you are original from.
Joel David Bond (03:23):
Originally from here in the United States,
but I've lived abroad for 20years, the last seven of which
have been in northern Iraq, inthe Kurdistan region.
Daniela SM (03:32):
And that's because of work or preference.
Joel David Bond (03:35):
Well, both I work in international education,
and so I teach in differentplaces around the world, for
varying lengths of time,different contracts, but my most
recent position had been innorthern Iraq for quite some
number of years, and so that wasmy home.
That was where I lived.
My community, all my personalpossessions, my life, everything
(03:55):
was there in Iraq, and I gotstranded, quarantined, away from
a third country that I'd neverbeen to you know, I'd never been
to Greece.
And so here I'm, stuck there.
Daniela SM (04:03):
Yes, and how do you choose?
Joel David Bond (04:07):
Iraq.
Daniela SM (04:07):
It's not a place that everybody goes.
Joel David Bond (04:08):
I think part of it is just I have this drive
for adventure.
I have just insatiablecuriosity, and so I'm always
looking to go someplace new anddifferent.
When I had the opportunity topursue this position in
Kurdistan, truth be told, Ididn't realize I was moving to
Iraq straight away.
I thought I was moving to theKurdish areas of Turkey, until I
got some more information aboutthe school and where I was
(04:29):
situation, and so then Irealized I was moving to Iraq.
So that was a bit of a learningcurve, but I really enjoyed the
cultures in and around theMiddle East.
I'd spent a number of yearsprior to moving there dipping my
toe in and out of the waters inand around Turkey and
Azerbaijan and Kuwait and Israel, and really enjoyed that part
of the world.
And so when the opportunitycame up for me to work there, I
(04:50):
thought well, why not, let'sjust give it a try.
Millions of people that live inthis country and survive and go
to school and visit grandma andbuy milk at the supermarket, and
it's no different than anyplace else in the world.
Really, it's just it has badnews headlines and I figured if
I was going to move anywhere inthe world based just on the news
.
By that same logic, I wouldnever move back to America
because of gun violence andprotests and political unrest
(05:12):
etc.
I had to sort of tell myselfthat every place in the world
has people and these people livetheir lives, have to know how
to live in differentenvironments and adapt to the
place where you're at.
That's what I did.
Daniela SM (05:25):
Yes, exactly, I feel like that too, that we
shouldn't listen to the news, weshould just explore ourselves,
because everybody has adifferent experience as well.
But what about the culture?
How was it very different?
Or because you've been dippingyour toes in different cultures
from the Middle East?
It wasn't that different.
Joel David Bond (05:44):
You know, the culture was unique.
The Kurdish culture inparticular is its own thing.
It does sort of borrow andblend very closely with a lot of
Turkish culture, a lot ofArabic culture, a lot of Iranian
and Farsi culture, and yet itis its own unique, distinct
thing, its own language.
They have their own militaryforces in the Kurdistan region,
(06:06):
their own political systems.
It does have its own uniqueculture to it.
Although I found it was, it wasfairly easy to integrate one
because the people were sohospitable, people were
genuinely welcoming and really,you know, glad to have
foreigners there, because they'dbeen close to the outside world
for so long and so now there'sknow this external influence can
come in and they're very opento that.
(06:27):
And then also because it justhad similarities with some of
the neighboring cultures thatI'd spent some time with that, I
didn't feel like it was a steeplearning curve.
There was definitely a lot tolearn, but in terms of cultural
adaptation I found I was like,oh, this is a little bit like
Turkey.
Oh, this food's like what I'vehad in other places in the
(06:49):
middle east.
Oh, this is feels like it mightbe iranian influence, and so
you were able to sort of teaseapart some of that but at the
same time all of that puttogether a kaleidoscope image
that was unique to just thekurdish culture there funny how
we always tend to compare, tokind of make it understand to
our brain, and yet some culturesays no, it doesn't look like
anything else, it is unique fromour country.
Yeah, I mean, I feel on somelevel depends on how macro a
view you want to take on things.
(07:10):
You know, if you want to pullall the way out, every culture
has some food that they wrap inanother food, you know.
And how microscopic do you wantto pick this part?
Is it beef versus chicken?
Is it this spices of that spice, Is it these vegetables or
those?
Again, depending on your lensand your sort of altitude that
you're looking at things, it'llbe very similar.
It'll feel very different thecloser inspection that you give
(07:32):
to these sorts of things.
Yes, the more unique it doesreally seem.
But if just to sort of createthat framework to work with to
begin with, I think that sort ofhigh level, 30,000 foot
overview is kind of a goodstarting point.
Yes, thank you, I appreciatethat explanation Very, very to
the point.
Daniela SM (07:50):
Very good.
Okay, so then you are strandedin Greece.
Only have a backpack.
I hope you'll have a laptop.
Joel David Bond (08:01):
Yeah, so I had my laptop and I had a backpack.
The downside was I hadintentionally chosen a place
that was somewhat disconnectedand so I had very poor internet
connection.
And I remember I would wanderaround the courtyard of the
villa that I had rented for thatweek trying to, you know, grab
reception on my phone.
You know I'm holding it up inthe air and I'm trying to grab
this reception.
And as the pandemic and thequarantine stretched out, you
know I ended up doing some workonline remotely, but I was never
(08:22):
able to join any meetings livein person.
I had pre-record myself andthen set them to upload
overnight.
It would take 12 hours for afive minute video to upload Very
slow, laborious internet speeds, and so I ended up sort of just
doing very piecemeal work andspending a lot of time really
just in meditation and in quietreflection and just being by
(08:43):
myself, because I was the onlyguest in the hotel where I was
at for four out of the fivemonths that I was quarantined.
Daniela SM (08:49):
Yeah, and Greece had it hard.
Joel David Bond (08:51):
Yeah, it was very hard.
Nobody came or left from theislands for the first two months
or so.
All transportation was cut off.
It was just incrediblyisolating and I didn't speak
Greek.
I didn't know anybody.
I was just there with mycarry-on bag no-transcript for
(09:36):
me, because everybody wasquarantined.
Everybody had this situationwhere they felt isolated and
removed from their community.
But I think what made itparticularly unique is, part way
through, as local restrictionsstarted to ease, I discovered
that there was a refugee camp onthe island full of asylum
seekers from the Middle East whowere caught in Greece trying to
get to the West.
(09:57):
And here I was, a man from theWest caught in Greece trying to
get back to my home in theMiddle East, and so I ended up
volunteering in the refugee campto teach English.
Our paths intersected and Iended up really learning an
incredible amount about theworld migration situation and
the global refugee crisis, justconnecting and changing our
lives forever.
There's their lives and mine,and the whole experience was
(10:19):
absolutely incredible to seewhat was happening behind the
veil of mass migration andpolitical unrest and movement to
Europe from these places andwhat motivated a lot of that,
and it was just the stories thatI heard from these people were
heartbreaking and just so moving.
Daniela SM (10:38):
I can imagine, and how long were you there in total
, then?
In five months you did all this.
Joel David Bond (10:43):
Yeah, so the first two months was pretty
isolating and then localrestrictions started to ease and
the last two and a half monthsor so I was connected a little
bit more with the refugee campon the opposite side of the
island.
Daniela SM (10:56):
And so then, what happened?
Joel David Bond (10:57):
So finally the restrictions eased globally and
global travel started to reopen, and so that was, I believe,
the 1st of August was the firstflight that returned to my town
in Iraq where I had been living,and I was on the flight on the
2nd of August.
In the middle of all this, hadlost my home in Iraq.
It was sold out from underneathme and I had friends that had
(11:18):
to move everything out of myhouse for me.
I packed my entire house byFaceTime with my friends and
they would take the phone aroundthe room and say do you want
this, do you want this, do youwant this?
And pack things up because myhouse had been sold while I was
away.
I'd lost it, and so that allgot moved in my absence, and so
when the borders opened, I wasable to fly home.
(11:38):
I immediately went to take careof all my personal possessions,
personal business back home, butreally, really was sad to leave
because by that point I'ddeveloped a little community and
lots of friendships andrelationships in Greece and
really left an indelible mark onmy spirit, made me think a lot
about what it means to beglobally migrant.
(11:59):
So my book that I ended upwriting my memoir about the
entire experience is called asLarge as your Spirit a reverse
refugee memoir.
I named that subtitle because Ifound that my experience on the
island it really mirrored thatof refugees, and while I was
coming from a place of privilege, really, and a place of means,
I was able to support myselfnarrowly for five months on the
(12:21):
island.
I also, like these refugees,was stuck away from home with no
prospect of being able toreturn and in an isolated
environment where I didn't knowthe language, I didn't know the
people and wasn't sure what myfuture would be.
And so it was through that sortof shared common experience,
that shared common emotion, thatI was really able to connect
with a lot of my refugee friendsand students and identify so
(12:43):
much more strongly with what itmeans to be a refugee in today's
modern world.
Daniela SM (12:48):
So many things the book, the experience, the going
back to your hometown and nothaving a place anymore.
There's a lot of situationsthat you have to adapt and deal
with.
I mean very adaptable, that youare.
Joel David Bond (13:03):
I pride myself at this point in my
adaptability.
I have spent a lot of time in alot of places around the world,
but in some ways it gets easierwith life experience.
In other ways it just neverdoes.
I mean, life just throwscurveballs at you all the time
and one of the greatest thingsabout being human is our ability
to grow.
It's wired into our very DNA.
(13:23):
We are meant to change and growand develop and if you're able
to embrace that aspect of yourlife, not just physically but
emotionally and spiritually andrelationally, I think you'll
find life becomes much moreinteresting.
Not necessarily easier, but itdefinitely.
I think you find thoseresources within yourself to
adapt with new situations overtime.
So I'm grateful that I've hadthose experiences even prior to
(13:45):
the quarantine in Greece, tohelp me sort of handle those new
, harder challenges when theycame along.
Daniela SM (13:51):
Yes, well, even traveling to places like that
that don't have the same accessor internet or anything that the
North America, you learn how tobe resourceful, something that
me, growing up in Venezuela, Iam so grateful because we were
always trying to find a solution.
There was never really dwellingon the problem, it's just like,
(14:11):
okay, what's the solution?
And I think that you don't havethat opportunity when you grew
up in North.
Joel David Bond (14:15):
America.
Yeah, we have a little bit tooeasy here, to be honest.
We're not challenged, and Ithink it's part of the reason
why I'm in education is becauseI understand that learning
requires challenge.
You don't learn unless you haveto overcome a challenge, a
problem of some sort, in someways fear for the future of
North American culture, becausewe aren't challenged enough in
(14:37):
many ways, which means we'reprobably not growing or learning
in the ways that we probablyshould or could, you know, and
so I think there's definitelyroom for emotional resilience to
be developed over time, and Ithink that's a big.
Resilience is a key word for mereally in this day and age now,
as I've been around the worldand been many places and had
these sorts of challenges, I'vebeen given the image of a palm
(14:57):
tree.
Palm trees will sway in thewind, the hurricanes will come
through, but they never break,they never snap.
When the storm passes, theysort of return to their normal
upright position because they'vegot that flexibility that's
built into them, and I thinkresilience is like that.
Resilience is this idea ofbeing able to adapt, to bend, to
(15:18):
sway with the storms of lifethat come your way, but never
bend, but never break all theway.
When the storm's passed, you'llfind yourself stronger and more
resilient, more upright for it.
That's an image, a metaphorsomeone gave me a long time ago
and it sort of stuck with me asthis idea to help with adapting
to new situations around theworld.
Daniela SM (15:37):
Yes, it's a good metaphor, and as I say that in
North America you don't havethat opportunity to be so
resourceful, I take it back alittle bit, thinking that maybe
there is a high percentage ofpoverty there.
Now People probably have to beresourceful.
So you wrote this book.
This book comes from that, so Idon't want you to tell the
story that is in the book.
I know that you have more tosay.
(15:59):
You went back and so what?
Joel David Bond (16:01):
You know, what I found I'm going to give
people a message that I hopethey take away from reading the
book is that resilience isdefinitely a strong
characteristic of the humanspirit.
I want the story really to beone about finding a place to
call home, not justgeographically, but emotionally
and relationally.
What does it mean?
To find a space where you'recomfortable being yourself in
(16:25):
and around the people that youknow in your life, in those
communities?
And what I found working withthese refugees is, you know, was
this sense of belonging.
You know, we were all caughtaway from home and we were all
caught in this unfamiliarsituation, and so that sort of
trauma bonding experience reallyhelped us grow together and
(16:49):
understand each other'ssituations a lot better.
And even though we didn't speakthe same language or come from
the same backgrounds or cultures, necessarily there was this
universal shared emotion that wecould connect with.
And I think that's what I reallywant people to understand
through reading this book andthrough just moving through
around the world is the ideathat there are shared universals
(17:10):
.
And if you're able to identifywhat's common, what is shared
emotionally between people, thena lot of the differences, a lot
of the oh, it's not a taco,it's a burrito or it's.
This sort of conversation kindof falls to the side, because
you recognize that there's a lotmore that is similar than there
(17:30):
is different.
And it's not to say thatdifferences are important.
It's just that when we dwell onthe differences they create
tension.
And if we can dwell on theshared common experiences, we'll
start from a place of trust andstart from a place of love.
Daniela SM (17:49):
For me, I feel like ignorance is put as in a box.
If you learn about cultures andyou can tell the difference of
people, how they look, people,how they speak, people, how they
what they eat.
It gives you that knowledge thatwe are different.
Not everybody who looks Latinis from the same country, or
everybody who has Asian eyes isChinese.
(18:12):
You bring a point that I alsonoticed, that we are all very
the same, point that I alsonoticed that we are all very the
same, like, feel like.
To respect people's culture isimportant, but to respect the
humans that we all the same isalso very important yeah, it's.
Joel David Bond (18:26):
You know, some people you know in various
religions, backgrounds andcircles will talk about the
light, the divine light in eachand every human being, and I
think that's for me that's anice esoteric way to kind of
look at it.
But even if you're not from aspiritual background, just to
recognize that we all, you know,we're all alive, we all want to
eat and have relationships andexperience joy and, to you know,
(18:50):
be with family.
And you know, we have theselongings and these relationships
that are inbuilt to our verylives and the fabric of who we
are.
And I remember several yearsago my mother and stepfather
came to visit me in IraqiKurdistan and at that point in
his life my stepfather hadreally not ever really been out
(19:12):
of the country.
I think he'd been to the UKpossibly, and maybe Mexico, but
never any places as exotic ordifferent as Iraq.
And so I was really nervous tobring him over there because
this was going to be quite theculture shock, and at the time I
didn't know him quite as well.
He'd newly married into thefamily, and so I remember one
evening we went to some friendsof mine and they invited us to
his parents' house for dinner.
(19:33):
And so it's on this farmoutside of the city and they
made this phenomenal Kurdishdinner with this food that just
spread across the entire floorand we sat on the floor and ate
with our hands and had all this.
You know plastic cutlery andplates and shared communal
dishes.
You know everybody reaching outof the same shared bowls in the
middle, and the mother of thefamily, partway through, sort of
(19:55):
paused her work with the dinnerand turned on the television
and sat in her chair and watchedMecca and did her prayers.
At that time I remember thinkingfor me this was an everyday
experience because I'd lived inthe country for quite some time,
I was very familiar and verycomfortable with Islamic culture
and Middle Eastern food anddining practices etc.
(20:17):
And I remember thinking that mystepdad was going to be so
terribly uncomfortable, from aNorth American Christian
background and used to NorthAmerican dining rules and tables
and forks and knives and chairsand having your own individual
dish.
I remember feeling very nervousduring that whole meal and
afterwards we were driving backto the hotel we were staying and
I asked my stepdad about thatexperience and he said you know
(20:40):
what that was?
Just that just showed mesomething.
I was like, okay, and he saidthat just showed me that
everyone around the world valuesfamily.
Everybody got together to sharethat meal and they just and they
loved being together.
And you know, the mother hadher role in that and the kids
had their role in this and thefather was doing this thing and
(21:03):
they all wanted to talk aboutthese things.
And, even though I didn'tunderstand everything that was
happening, I just recognizedthat this was a family that
wanted to be together on theirday off.
And I remember sort of drivingslack-jawed in the car thinking,
oh is like that's what mystepdad took away from this,
like that's a, that's a reallyemotionally resilient person to
be able to go through anexperience that's so vastly
(21:24):
different from what he had known, ever known before and to walk
away from it having recognized,oh, it's a shared value, it's
like a family dinner, it's likea Sunday family dinner, only
this is the Islamic version inKurdistan.
And I felt really proud of himat that point, to be honest,
because I was afraid that hewould have this sort of judgment
or this fear or thismisunderstanding or would
(21:46):
confess to being incrediblyuncomfortable.
But no, he walked away from ithaving really seen the universal
value of it, and for me that'sthe sort of thing that I really
wish everybody could do.
Um, that's sort of what's mylife's mission, I suppose, is to
help people navigate thosecross-cultural environments and
understand that, hey, we're allin this thing called life and
(22:06):
doing it together might look alittle different, but at its
core, at its fundamental base,we're seeking the same things
here yes, that's true.
Daniela SM (22:15):
We all at the end is true family and love and
belonging and community.
Yes, I mean that's why theytalk about the centenarians,
that that's what keep them alive, having community, having a
purpose, having people that theycare about.
So, yeah, it has to be trueyeah, so, so important get.
(22:38):
You get distracted with thesilly things.
Joel David Bond (22:40):
Yeah, having purpose really is so key I joke
sometimes.
I grew up in a veryconservative evangelical
Christian background, which I'vesince come in different
directions from that upbringing,but a lot of those values I
think I still hold and Iremember growing up thinking
surrounded by this what's themeaning of life?
(23:01):
Question what is the meaning oflife?
As I've grown older, I thinkthe meaning of life is to make
meaning, to make purpose, tocreate meaning.
We are created to create.
We are creators who want tomake things and do things in
this world.
I think that's really themeaning.
(23:21):
Our purpose, it's our purpose.
Our meaning in life is toactually go out there and make
meaning of the things that wefeel might be so nonsensical.
And once you sort of have thatdrive and you've created that
structure to live within, you'vegot a purpose and a story that
helps motivate and propel you tothe next adventure.
To me, the meaning of life isto make more meaning.
Daniela SM (23:40):
Yes, that's beautiful said.
Thank you so much.
You're a philosopher.
I've got a lot of time to think, which is also very important
and necessary.
Instead of being bombarded withgarbage, putting less
unnecessary things in our brainand clean them up.
Of being bombarded with garbage, putting less unnecessary
things in our brain and cleanthem up.
I think it's not just beingminimalistic on your way of
(24:02):
living, but on the things thatyou have in your brain as well.
Joel David Bond (24:05):
Yeah, I think that's really one of the
beauties of the pandemic andpart of what you'll see come
through in the book is thevolume on all that external
noise that was bombarding us all.
The time got turned way downand all of a sudden all of us
were forced to spend time withour own thoughts and to
introspect and to spend moretime in isolation and some of us
(24:27):
, I think, were more adept atdiving into that and pressing
into that than others.
But regardless of where youwere on that sort of
self-awareness spectrum, I thinkwe all had that opportunity to
just sit and be like okay, whoam I and what do I want?
And for a short, brief period,I feel, during the pandemic and
shortly after, I felt that wehad a much stronger sense of
community and connection withpeople.
(24:49):
And I think as we've turnedthat volume back up on all the
noise and the radio sounds thatkind of bombard us every day, I
think we've lost a little sightof that in the recent years.
Daniela SM (25:00):
I know I was very disappointed.
I thought we were going tocontinue better.
Joel David Bond (25:04):
Yeah, I was hoping for longer lasting change
, but you know there's stillhope, I suppose.
Daniela SM (25:09):
But so the book is about the refugees that you met
in Greece.
But I know you have anotherpart of your story.
Joel David Bond (25:17):
Like you were back in Iraq and then you
couldn't be back in Iraq anymore.
Is that also part in the book,or can we talk about it?
That is going to be my secondbook, which I'm currently
working on, between Iraq and ahard place.
That story takes place afterthe end of as Large as your
Spirit and the book about therefugees on the Greek island.
I returned to Iraq and I spentanother two years there this
(25:39):
last two, three years, actually,and this last October.
In the wake of the Israel-Gazaconflict, I just had a ripple
effect throughout the MiddleEast, and even though I wasn't
in Israel and I wasn't anywhereconnected to Israel, there was
just this repercussion that wentacross the Middle East.
As an American citizen in Iraq,somehow or another, I got
(26:05):
singled out as a target forkidnapping by terrorist
organizations that were stilloperating in the country.
I was given a phone call on aFriday night from the US State
Department informing me of thesituation and telling me that I
should depart as soon aspossible, and so that was Friday
night.
On Saturday night, I was on theairplane with two suitcases
worth of my stuff that I couldpack, the rest left behind and
evacuated back to the US, whereI've been since.
(26:27):
It was a very traumatic anddramatic departure from a place
that I'd called home for sevenyears that I loved very much.
So I'm working on thatnarrative, that memoir and the
direction, the things that I'velearned from that.
That's still a bit of a processand I don't know that I can
speak intelligently or asphilosophically about it as I
can, about the first experiencethat we have spoken about.
(26:48):
There's a lot that goes intothat.
I'm looking forward to gettingthis next one out to the world
in the next year or so.
Daniela SM (26:55):
But do you think this happens?
If I understand, you went tovisit Israel and then you went
back to Iraq.
Joel David Bond (27:06):
I mean I had been to Israel, but it'd been,
you know, 10 years ago or more,so nothing that was, you know,
any of immediate relevance.
The State Department and the FBI, the phone calls, the
information I've had fromgovernment organizations haven't
been able to tell me a completestory.
So anything I say at this pointis conjecture, is just a guess,
and my guess is because I haveJewish friends and have had some
(27:29):
visibility in the Jewish world,even though I'm not Jewish.
I think that was enough totrigger a few things from these
groups that were there being aWesterner, being American, being
Christian, being connected tothe Jewish world, just having a
visibility, with a book that hadbeen published, some TEDx talks
(27:49):
that were given in and aroundIraq, social media presence that
was just that one step above,kind of your normal expat that
was over there.
I had a visibility and anotoriety just in general to the
general public.
I'd met with ministers ofeducation and the government and
I think all of those thingscombined were enough to raise my
profile above, just enough tobe a tripping point for groups
(28:14):
that didn't want people there.
Daniela SM (28:16):
So you had a TEDx talk.
Joel David Bond (28:18):
So, yes, I gave a talk in Baghdad.
It wasn't TEDx, but it was verysimilar.
It was the same demographic,same size audience for a large
organization that, an NGO thatwas operating there in Baghdad.
And then I attended the TEDxconferences both in Baghdad and
Erbil, so I had lots ofconnections within that speaking
world at the same time as Ireleased my book.
Daniela SM (28:40):
And when do you think the second one will be
ready?
Joel David Bond (28:42):
Hopefully I'll have that out within a year.
I am in a very, very bigtransition period right now.
I've obviously had thetraumatic transition back to the
US and in another week and ahalf I'm actually moving out of
the country to West Africa whereI'll be taking up a new
teaching position.
I'm in a sort of big tumultuouslife change here, so I'm trying
(29:03):
to juggle lots of projects atthe same time, but hopefully
we'll be able to get somethingout and published at least
self-published on Amazon in thenext 12 months here.
Daniela SM (29:12):
You couldn't stay put.
You had to go somewhere.
Joel David Bond (29:15):
Yeah, I had to go someplace new.
I was never going to stay herefor too long.
Daniela SM (29:24):
And the other thing is that.
So if you say that you stillhave a lot to process from that
traumatic experience of havingto leave in such a rush, are you
ready to continue the book oris this going to take you more
time?
Joel David Bond (29:31):
So I do have an entire rough draft, an
outline, a skeletal structure ofthe book that I'd like to
publish.
It does need a lot of work andsome filling out.
There needs to be a lot ofdetail that's put into it to
sort of round out the length andto make it a little bit more of
a palatable read.
But I have the generalstructures that are there and I
think as I continue to talkabout the experience and as I
(29:53):
transition to a new overseasexperience, it'll help me with,
I think, just perspective.
It'll give me that 30,000 footview that I need Because at the
moment, up until the last coupleof months, I've been very too
close to the experience toreally see the universal truths
that need to be, pulled from it.
So I think, as some time anddistance come from it, I'll be
(30:13):
able to go to that 30,000 footaltitude view and see what
really came from that experienceto help you grow.
Daniela SM (30:20):
I like that analogy that you keep mentioning for you
traveling or going to adifferent culture, because
you're not just going from oneplace to another, you're just
changing cultures and staying,kind of finding other homes to
stay for a while.
So you know what is that?
That's not traveling, that'sjust what that's me.
Yes, I.
(30:42):
What is that?
Joel David Bond (30:43):
that's not traveling, that's just what.
That's me, yes, I know, but youhave met other people like you,
you know, I think it's.
I think it's community building, I think it's that search for
connection, it's that curiosity,it's that desire for growth and
change.
People who I've come across wholive like me, I think, are
never really satisfied withstability.
They always like to have alittle bit of insecurity.
(31:04):
They always like to have alittle bit of like, not quite
sure what the next thing isgoing to be, and I think that's
just that curiosity of what'saround the next corner.
I don't really know how todescribe that one so much.
You know.
I think we all like to have acertain amount of routine that
we build into our lives.
But we also like to take abreak from routine.
We like to go on vacation,right, take 10 days, go
someplace else and take a breakand then come back when you know
(31:25):
, partway through vacation,we're like all right, I'm ready
to go back, I'm ready to do myroutine again.
I think for me it's just I likethose routines to stretch out
and I like those breaks tostretch out as well.
I'll build a routine for acouple of years with a new
community in a new place, andthen I want to disassemble and
reassemble it someplace else andsee if I can learn something
else from the new experience inthe new place.
But yeah, it's definitely nottraveling.
(31:46):
It's living abroad and buildingcommunity and doing work in the
world to see how you can makethings better for everyone,
including yourself.
Daniela SM (31:55):
Yes, and what is the first thing that you do every
time you go to a new place?
Joel David Bond (32:03):
First thing I try and do is learn how to say
thank you in the local language.
That's my number one.
Everywhere I go, I need to beable to say thank you, because I
think there's something aboutbeing grateful, about expressing
gratitude for the help that youreceive in entering a new space
, the love and the connectionthat people will show even
though you're a total stranger.
A new space, the love and theconnection that people will show
even though you're a totalstranger, and looking for ways
to help build and deepen andstrengthen those initial
(32:24):
connections that you make whenyou first step off the airplane.
So, for me, the first thing isgratitude, is to say thank you.
Daniela SM (32:29):
Yes, and the second one then.
Joel David Bond (32:32):
Yeah.
Second thing is just just move,like go, start walking, see
what there is, discover, askquestions, yeah, questions, yeah
.
Ask questions.
Be curious.
For me it's thank you and thenbe curious.
Daniela SM (32:44):
I think that's what it is and so where are you going
now?
Joel David Bond (32:47):
I'm moving to the ivory coast, cote d'ivoire,
in west africa wow, they speakfrench yeah, so french is the
official language I'm.
Part of the reason why I chosethis position is that is, I do
speak french.
I had studied it at in college,in my undergraduate.
I'd lived in France 20 yearsago, so I do have a fading
knowledge of French.
(33:08):
I do need to make sure that Ibrush up on it before I head
back over to a French-speakingcountry.
But part of the reason why Ichose this is because I wanted
the challenge of being someplacewhere I did speak the language,
but maybe not 100% fluently.
In Iraq I didn't speak Kurdishor Arabic, and so the grace and
the privilege, I suppose, ofbeing able to turn the
background noise down a lot andbe like, okay, I don't know what
(33:29):
they're saying and just tune itout, whereas now I'm going to a
place where I will understand afair amount and it's going to
constantly impede on my brainspace.
So I think it'll be a challengeto sort of work bilingually in
a space coming up.
Daniela SM (33:41):
Since you've been to so many countries or live in so
many countries anyone that youthat it was harder to adapt.
Joel David Bond (33:47):
Harder to adapt.
To be perfectly honest, one ofthe first places I lived
overseas was France, and I didfind that initially very hard to
adapt to French culture andlive in that space.
I think that's part of why Ikind of want to go back to a
Francophone country is to see ifI can now overcome that.
With 20 years more experienceunder my belt.
(34:09):
What does it mean to be able toadapt to a new place now that
I've had more experience sincethat first time around?
So I think, yeah, as I've grown, as I've learned, as I've
changed, I think it's becomeeasier every time.
I will never say it's going tobe easy to move to a new country
.
There's always challenges andthings to learn.
But I think I've come to apoint now where some things are
more predictable on what willhappen and how it will unfold,
(34:31):
and so it helps me deal withthat, I think, a little easier.
Daniela SM (34:33):
Yes, you stretch your mind.
Every time you have theseexperiences, your mind becomes
really gooey and verystretchable.
Joel David Bond (34:44):
Elastic?
Daniela SM (34:45):
yes, I don't want it to turn to mush.
Gooey is not good.
Elastic is Elastic.
Yes, it turns into more elastic.
You're right, we will deletethat and put the right one
Wonderful.
So okay, we went through yourtwo books.
Is there anything else that youwant to add?
Because I know you don't wantto tell the whole story.
Joel David Bond (34:59):
What I'd love to have to go away with is this
idea that we're faced constantlywith life decisions.
You know you come to a fork inthe road and you're trying to
decide what to do next theselife junctions and so often we
look at the next steps and wethink what if?
And we fill in the blank with anegative.
(35:21):
What if it's terrible?
What if I lose money?
What if my friends abandon meor I don't meet new people that
I need to?
Or what if?
What if?
What if?
I think it's important just asmuch to fill in the blank with
the positives.
What if that next thing isamazing?
What if it changes your lifefor the better?
What if you meet the peoplethat influence you in ways that
are so beneficial that you neverrealized you needed to be
(35:43):
influenced in?
What if the next step bringsyou such wealth and joy and
prosperity and happiness andlove that you never dreamed
possible?
And I think it's reallyimportant to think about the
next adventure that you take,holding both of those in hand,
not just the negative what ifs,because those are good, those
are evolutionarily in place tokeep us alive.
(36:04):
Like you do need to think whatif this is unsafe, but what if
it's amazing?
And what if you learn thingsfrom it?
And the reality is, the answeris going to be somewhere in the
middle.
It's going to be both good andbad.
You'll learn things either wayand you'll have come up with
great stories in the end.
So if it's a great success,fantastic.
Everyone loves a happy ending.
(36:25):
If it's a terrible failure,fantastic.
What did you learn Becauseyou'll grow from that as well Is
to take the next adventure,take the next step, because what
if it turns out to be somethingreally incredible?
Daniela SM (36:36):
Yes, that's beautiful and it's true, don't
you feel also this is part ofpersonality?
Some people just have thesetraits that they have to be
negative or incapable to livewith uncertainty.
And then there are other peoplethat are like you and that
they're open, are curious,they're always want to explore,
like of course, we don't wanteverybody to be the same.
(36:57):
It will be boring.
I feel like it's personality.
Joel David Bond (37:00):
I think it can be a practiced trait, it may be
nature, it may be nurture.
I'm not quite sure In myfantasy league of doctorate
degrees that I would pursue inanother lifetime.
I would love to see whatrisk-averse and risk-taking
people, what their lifestyleslook like over the long term,
what sorts of things they getinto and how their life
(37:20):
satisfaction is.
I think it'd be a fascinatingdoctorate study.
That's for someone else, not me, but but yeah, I mean I think
it's.
It's a combination of natureand nurture.
I think you know I've alwayshad this, this desire to explore
what's around the next corner,but at the same time I've had to
learn and practice and growfrom those experiences on how to
be thankful and grateful andexplore and ask those questions.
Daniela SM (37:44):
Yes, I know, I know.
And as a teacher, what is itthat you like to teach, I mean,
besides literature?
Are you always throwing thisadvice and these suggestions to
your students?
Joel David Bond (37:56):
I would tell my students in Iraq.
The cover of the book said Iwas teaching English, but I'm
really teaching you how to be abetter human being.
Daniela SM (38:03):
But you were also in an international school there.
Joel David Bond (38:05):
Yes.
Daniela SM (38:06):
These people that go to international schools.
The parents are traveling, sothey are themselves travelers.
Joel David Bond (38:11):
There is a degree of yes.
These students come from meansthey come from backgrounds of
privilege, the school that I hadbeen teaching in but at the
same time, a lot of them hadnever left Iraq or had never
traveled further afield than thenext town over.
So it was really kind of adiverse mix and I was really
surprised, actually, at theamount of travel, or lack
thereof, that a lot of mystudents had.
Their exposure to the rest ofthe world through media and
(38:34):
social media and entertainmentand everything, I mean it's so
prolific.
I mean America exposes cultureso much so far.
You know that it's pretty easyto connect with young students
on, you know, the latest Beyoncesongs or Taylor Swift or
whatever's out there now.
You know, because it'severywhere and so they were able
, you know, you're able, to makethose connections even in
places that are, you know,incredibly different, that you
(38:55):
think these people wouldn't havethe same exposure, but they do.
Daniela SM (38:58):
Yes, I think that's the thing about globalization.
The only thing that it makes itnow, I guess, is that you
traveling what is no more ofthis things but the, the people
and the culture right?
Joel David Bond (39:09):
Yeah, the experiences yes, yeah, so we
said at the same time clearly onthe same page.
I'm thinking Clearly on thesame page.
Daniela SM (39:17):
So wonderful.
I love what I hear Like.
I really appreciate all thethings that you say.
You have a really big messageto share and I hope that you
continue doing that one way oranother.
Yeah.
Joel David Bond (39:29):
And I think in a world where it is so
globalized and you can get yourSnickers bars and Taylor Swift
music anywhere you want to go inthe world, the thing that
really makes life interesting isthe sharing of ideas.
Now, it's those experiences andconnecting mind to mind,
because the physical reality ofour daily lives is so similar in
so many places in metropolitanareas for sure that it's lost
(39:55):
that kind of uniqueness.
And what makes things uniqueare the connections of the
people that you make along theway, and so that sounds super
cheesy, I know, but I thinkthat's part of the reality of
our modern world is we are soconnected that it's the ideas
that we share that really helpmake things interesting.
Daniela SM (40:11):
Well, I mean including this podcast, right?
I've been meeting people fromso many places, from so many
places that I'm fascinated, andso it is true we have now these
opportunities.
Joel David Bond (40:23):
Yeah, everyone has a story.
Daniela SM (40:26):
Yes, everyone has a story, and I guess the more that
we connect this way, that wecan learn more about each other.
Joel David Bond (40:32):
Yeah, 100%.
Daniela SM (40:34):
Yes, all right, jules, thank you so much.
We will put in the show noteseverything about your book that
is already out there andhopefully when you get your next
book you can knock on my doorand we can have a second episode
for sure.
Joel David Bond (40:47):
Yeah, I would love that.
In the meanwhile, I am findableon the internet at
joeldavidbondcom and I'm onInstagram, facebook and LinkedIn
at joeldavidbond and my book isout there on Amazon.
As Large as your Spirit.
Daniela SM (41:01):
As Large as your Spirit.
Wonderful title.
I like it.
Joel David Bond (41:04):
Thanks so much for having me.
Daniela SM (41:05):
Thank you.
I hope you enjoyed today'sepisode.
I am Daniela and you arelistening to, because Everyone
has a Story.
Please take five seconds rightnow and think of somebody in
your life that may enjoy whatyou just heard, or someone that
has a story to be shared andpreserved.
When you think of that person,shoot them a text with the link
(41:27):
of this podcast.
This will allow the ordinarymagic to go further.
Join me next time for anotherstory conversation.
Thank you for listening.
Hasta pronto.
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